It was in 2007 that US-based Honeywell successfully demonstrated to the Indian Air Force (IAF) the ‘drop-in installation’ of its F125IN turbofan on a Jaguar IS interdictor/strike aircraft. The F125IN delivers 30% higher thrust (27.7kN of dry thrust and 43.8kN with afterburning) than the Jaguar IS’ existing Rolls-Royce-Turbomeca Adour Mk.811 turbofan (rated at 25kN dry thrust and 37.5kN with afterburning), apart from offering improved pilot safety, lower maintenance costs and outstanding reliability. The turbofan’s modular construction and its integral dual full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) system can provide substantial savings (Rs.7,000 crore or US$1.5 billion) to the operator’s in life-cycle costs. Its time-between-overhauls (TBO) is 2,000 hours and its total technical service life (TTSL) of 4,000 hours, compared to the Adour Mk.811’s 1,200 hours and 2,400 hours.
In June 2009 Rolls-Royce
successfully installed and tested the Adour Mk.821 turbofan (an uprated and
upgraded derivative of the Mk.811) in a Jaguar IS to prove its capability and
suitability to the IAF. However, the Mk.821 with a TBO of 2,000 hours and TTSL
of 4,000 hours was being offered as a ‘low-cost’ upgrade and was thus bereft of
some of the more advanced features found on the F125N.
An RFP for new turbofans with
higher thrust was issued by India’s Ministry of Defence ( MoD) on November 26,
2010, to two turbofan manufacturers—Rolls-Royce and Honeywell. The RFP had
specified a requirement for 200 turbofans estimated to cost around Rs.3,000
crore ($670 million) Rolls-Royce later opted to withdraw from the
competitive evaluations rather than be eliminated, resulting in a “single
vendor situation”.
It was at this time that the
MoD-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) decided to use its internal resources
with the aim of producing an indigenously designed and developed non-afterburning
turbofan within a timeframe of six years beginning from 2013. Designated as the
HTFE-25 and rated at 25kN dry thrust, its engine core’s inaugural run was successfully
completed in the presence of the then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar at HAL’s Engine
Division on December 14, 2015. Only two such engine cores had been built by
then and even at that time no mention was made of this turbofan being developed
for the Jaguar IS.
It was only in March 2019 that HAL decided to develop an afterburner for the HTFE-25 for giving it a maximum thrust of 40.39kN. However, HAL has not yet officially stated whether or not it will offer this variant of the HTFE-25 for the IAF’s Jaguar IS, about 80 of which are due to be re-engined. Nor has HAL provided any data on what will be the TBO and TTSL of an HTFE-25 turbofan fitted with an afterburner. It also remains unclear whether HAL will eventually be forced to seek technical consultancy expertise from the likes of Rolls-Royce for coming up with an optimally engineered production-series HTFE-25 turbofan meant for the Jaguar IS.
69 comments:
Prasunda,
VMT. If the K-4 has not been tested from pontoons, what about the flight tests of the K-4 so far? From ground based launchers somewhere near Vizag ?
Satyaki
What a waste of time ! The money and effort could have gone into Kabini core.
Regards,
Venky
Prasunda,
1) Is the S-5 SSBN starting construction only in the 2030s or would it begin construction earlier, to be inducted in the 2030s ?
2) Would the K-06 be first tested around 2023-24, or much later ?
3) With China's agression increasing, does it mot make sense to build the land based deterrent up at a rapid pace to use nuclear deterrence to stop China fron annexing Ladakh (letting go of No first use) ?
Kritavarma
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-congress-passes-defence-policy-bill-that-calls-out-chinese-aggression-against-india-2339246?pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll
When other countries are passing out bill like this why can’t India’s 56 inch PM cannot pass a bipartisan resolution condemning China
And why is Russia not acknowledging unilateral steps of China along India’s LAC and voicing concerns over US meddling with India
Ron
Prasunda,
VMT.
1) Then the A-6 mentioned in Dr. Saraswat's slides is likely to be developed and operationalized much before the K-6. Is this correct ?
2) Does'nt any use of TNW to prevent military annexation of Ladakh by China require that we have missiles to reach major Chinese cities in order to deter further PRC escalation ? This is why A-5 needs to be deployed ASAP (same for A-6) since we canoot afford to have nothing until the mid 2030s.
3) Was the thermonuclear test in 1998 successful as well ?
Satyaki
Prasun
rumors are floating in bandalbaaz twitter space that DRDO has given up on procuring A330 for AWAC needs and instead is going to procure 6 Air india planes to convert them to AWAC. is there any truth to this and wouldn't it become cost prohibitive for IAF to maintain 3 types of AWAC/AEW in the form of 3 IL-78 + 3 NETRA+ 6 (i assume ex air india Boeing 777 ER) and 2 types of refuellers- 6 IL78+ 6 A330 MMRT
1) Sir thanks for this update. Looks to me jaguar will remain underpowered as deal for new engines has become unaffordable.
2) Sir can we increase mechanization of rest of our non mech rgmt formations with BEML gaur type vehicles like french army did with griffons adding atgms and compact 30mm rcws?
Pros are faster mobilization and better protection than ashok leyland. Cons are thin armor and high silhouette in battlefield.
3) can automated L70/zsu 23 etc meet ciws requirements of army? Automated as in sudarshan L70 and israeli offer and not just OFB upgrades?
That can buy us time for common sensical ak630 redesign for c-ram/ciws role for static base defenses of IA/IAF?
Also does a slow rate of fire of 40mm AAA means poor accuracy over 35mm and below AA guns with extremely high rates of fire? How do they reconcile difference in caliber, rate of fire to the accuracy on target and movement of gun barrel/turret?
Their main targets like cruise missiles, pgms and low flying jets are just too fast now leaving bombers, medium and above sized drones and helicopters as targets.
Thanks in advance.
Sir,
1) In a thread 4 years ago you had mentioned that the IN SSN will be based upon a new 5th gen sub designed by Rubin. Why are they now switching to a derivative of Arihant which itself is based on a very old Soviet era design?
2) If Russia doesn't want to share it's future fifth generation design, we could have opted for a mini Yasen minus VLS or an advanced version of Project 971 Shchuka. Russia would have agreed to that. It would have ensured a world class submarine. Now even after spending so much time and funds all we are getting is a submarine based on a vintage design.
3) If the Navy is planning to turn Arihants into SSGN will they be effective enough since their max speed is just 24 knots?
4) Is the S-5 class of SSBNs just an enlarged variant of Arihant or based on a new design?
5) If the Russians are hesitating, then why don't we seek French help? They could also help us to speed up the development of 10K range SLBM.
Hi Prasun,
https://idrw.org/6-new-eyes-in-the-sky-for-air-force-with-air-india-planes-report/
why now there is change in plan to get old planes from air india or this is another way for getting funds by DRDO?
Mr. Prasun
1)Is there or was there any agreement with U.S Navy for rescue of our ships or subs?
2)What is the 5-point formula of China and why it's genesis lies in 1986 and after 1998 n-tests?
3)Any data on U.S Navy tapping undersea cables since 1970s and over land how is it related?
4)An old video talked about the U.S looking to invade 1)Somalia 2)Iran 3)Lebanon 4)Sudan
what happened to U.S plans?
5)When will the prophecy of China coming to aid India and India aiding Sindh come true?
6)Why Lal bahadur shastri died? Please tell
7)You once said that the IAF and IA exercises with US,UK,France for the last 15 years have been for coming up with COPs to undertake Multinational Combined arms Coalition military ops is ti true?IF true for what?
8)Why does'nt PRC take over Bhutan even large chunks of it's territory like it took Aksai Chin? Who's gonna stop them? India nope.
9)Biden admin coming maybe a new Iran nuke deal and then Defanging pakistan without radioactive fallout shall begun?
10)Were indian SOF personnel also deployed in Afghanistan 2001 during liberation of Kabul?
Thank you
Sanjay
Prasoon Da,
Finally your comments towards indigenous AEW&CS Aircraft using existing Air India Airbus frames are coming to life...
@prasun da
1. why is IN buying 15-18 FA16 Super Horet does it mean IN will ditch the Mig 29k ?
2. Arjun mk1 weighs 62.5 ton Mk1A weighs 67.5 tn, whereas mk2 will be 60t ton, is it theoretically possible that mk1 1 and mk1a cutting down weight using the same nitrogen mixed steel
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
To SATYAKI: 1) Yes, the Agni-5 variant with all-composite fuel tanks & MIRVs, plus the Prahar SS-BSM armed with TNW-type warheads. 3) Yes. All the reqd data-points were acquired, enabling further tweaking of the design, inclusive of the precise quantum of Tritium reqd.
To HOODS07, PSS & MOHIT BAJAJ: At least sound common-sense seems to be prevailing, albeit after the country has been pushed with her to the wall. Out of the 13 Boeing B.777-300ERs, two have been modified for VVIP transportation, leaving 11, all of which are presently grounded & rotting at Delhi International Airport. Anyone taxiing towards T-3 after his/her aircraft lands or prepares for takeoff can see this sorry sight! So it looks like a Position Paper that I had submitted to the relevant authorities last April has been taken seriously by the decision-makers—not just for AEW & CS platforms, but also for MRTTs. Since Boeing has all the structural & technical data reqd for integrating the radome with the B.767’s airframe, some additional wind-tunnel testing will be reqd to be done by Boeing for ensuring the B.777-300ER airframe’s compatability, based on which CABS will have to do the weight budgeting of the radome containing the 4 AESA antennae & related electronics. Next, a sample of this complete radome will have to be shipped to Boeing for airframe installation-cum integration on the 1st aircraft (which will be reqd to fly to Boeing’s facilities in the US) & a couple of flight-tests will be conducted in the US for ensuring EMI isolation. Before this, CABS will have to install & integrate on to the airframe all the conformal mounts that will house the SIGINT/ELINT sensors, SATCOM hardware, RWR, LWR & MAWS sensors. Since the B.777-300ER already comes equipped with de-icing systems, there won’t be any need for flight-testing over Alaska. Plus, the COMCASA foundational agreement between the 2 countries will ensure that proprietary IPRs are well-protected. However, it remains to be seen if all 6 platforms will have to be sent to the US for such work or whether the remaining five platforms can be modified in-country.
And since the B.777-300ER airframe will be used for AEW & C, it makes perfect that the remaining five B.777-300ERs of Air India be converted into MRTTs—something that Boeing can easily do by adapting all the hardware developed by Boeing for the KC-46A tankers to the B.777 airframe. Only this will enable the IAF to acquire both AEW & CS and MRTT platforms at greatly reduced costs.
To VSJ: 1) The only option now is to start ordering the F125Ns. 2) It is possible, but with Kestrel WHAP-type vehicles equipped with different tyoes of turrets hosting different weapons & barrels. 3) No, because a very high rate of fire is reqd & the AK-630M spewing out 3,000 rounds per minute is the perfect solution for shooting down gliding/powered PGMs. ZSU-23-4 Schilka’s rate of fire is only 1,600 rounds per minute. Low-flying subsonic cruise missiles can easily be intercepted by QR-SAM.
To SATYA: 1) Because of both cost & time factors. Russia is giving more importance to the construction of SSBNs & SSGNs & hence it does not want to increase funding for new-generation SSNs, preferring instead to upgrade its existing Project 971 Shchuka SSGN families to act as SSNs. Consequently, for the IN it has become all the more easy to decide that the Arihant SSGN’s design can easily be modified & minimally re-engineered (to accommodate a detachable crew rescue module) to morphe into a SSN. Even now, the Arihant & the Arighat (to be commissioned into service by next February) come equipped with the CRI Morphispribor-developed MGK-400EM RUBIKON-M active/passive sonar suite that offers excellent performance parameters reqd for functioning as SSNs. For, as I had explained earlier, SSGNs also function as SSNs. 2) Both the Arihant & the Project 971 Shchuka were designed in the 1980s & can by no means labelled as being vintage designs. 3) Without SLBMs the dispkacement of the Arihant gets reduced & this in tyrn increases its cruising speed when submerged. 5) What’s the use of speeding up the SLBM’s R & D when the SSBNs reqd won’t be available soon enough for housing such SLBMs? 4) This is the design of the IN’s definitive SSBN:
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FNCeiM_2-IY/Wi8oZgkgx0I/AAAAAAAANzU/R6KKiQHRCqQHDcOUeyUx2Evi7swEzLoYACLcBGAs/s1600/Indian%2BNavy%2527s%2Bprojected%2BS-5%2BSSBN.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HCVRUjR5XlM/Wi8oKNdsvrI/AAAAAAAANzM/0-0Rhbb7GskMk7n4IZprDKnfBgyxxT9zwCLcBGAs/s1600/Indian%2BNavy%2527s%2Bprojected%2BS-5%2BSSBN%2BSchematic.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-osvhByPGUIY/T8vtZ4OH2SI/AAAAAAAABWo/lCIQg9Q0t3M/s1600/S-5-1.jpg
To SANJAY: 1) There was, but is has expired & is not reqd for renewal since the IN already possesses DSRs. 2) There’s no such formula. Instead, China has given five different reasons/excuses for initiating the faceoff in Ladakh. 3) Plenty of it is available online. 4) They have been moved into cold-storage, I guess. 5) No idea. 6) Only the Almighty can answer that. 7) True, precisely for the sake of undertaking such military operations in future. 8) The PRC has already done that. 9) Possible, if Pakistan continues to side with Turkey. 10) No.
To SATYAKI: LoLz! If that were to happen then surely you would have seen videos of such t5est-firings taken by some civilian from his/her cellphone. So let’s face it, all reports about the K-4 being test-fired were pure hogwash 7 utterly mischievous.
To KRITAVARMA: 1) As the CNS of the IN recently said, priority will be given to the SSN project. 2) K-6 will be test-fired in the following decade but will become operational after mid-2030. 3) A sea-based strategic deterrent is the most survivable & effective solution, not land-based ICBMs or air-launched cruise missiles. But at the same time, a sea-based strategic deterrent is also the most expensive to raise & sustain. In terms of preventing any future aggression, as I had explained several times earlier this time there has not been an aggression because China is only squatting on land that was never occupied or populated by any Indian citizen & hence ownership of such territory cannot be proven by India in any court of law, & China knows this only too well. For preventing the annexation of Ladakh by military means, TNWs are available to India. After all, one must never forget that of the six nuclear warheads tested by India in May 1998, four of them were of sub-kiloton yields, while one more was a boosted-fission warhead & another was a thermonuclear warhead.
To VENKY: The Kabini core has been developed for providing different thrust-levels.
To VED: First Varunastra HWT manufactured by BDL for the Indian Navy was delivered on November 21, 2020.
GSL OPV for ICGS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3UOpiKDTCA
The Indian Coast Guard Service (ICGS) seems to be service-inducting far more vessels & at a much faster rate than the IN. In addition, since the ICGS does not have its now dockyards for servicing its vessels, it has always relied on the Indian OEM shipyards for undertaking such servicing work, unlike the IN which does the periodic servicing & mid-life refits of its warships at its own naval dockyards. The IN needs to get out of this practice & should instead focus only on designing/developing & operating warships, leaving the warship servicing/upgradation activities to be conducted by Indian shipyards.
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) Have you been informed by Boeing or IN HQ that the contract for procuring F/A-18 Super Hornets has either been inked or is going to be inked? Or are you taking your lead from countless aresholes like this one:
https://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/1338028419292909571
2) Yes, not nitrogen-mixed steel, but High Nitrogen Steel (HNS) supplied by Jindal Steel:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/jindal-steel-to-make-high-nitrogen-steel-for-defence-sector/articleshow/57409000.cms?from=mdr
What is theoretical for you was achieved by Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries more than a decade ago when developing Japan’s 4th-generation Type 10 MBT.
Now sit back & enjoy by reading this:
https://thedailyguardian.com/ins-panvel-the-small-ship-that-scored-big-in-the-1971-war/
And watch the PA’s COAS yesterday visiting those very areas in the Shakargarh Bulge where the IA’s 54th Infantry Division got into a futile slugfest back in 1971:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkDqyYx7yFs&t=1s
And what Lt Gen D B Shekatkar had to say about that same battle yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjaZ88rB3_A&t=3s
Prasunda,
Are SSBNs really necessary? Isn't it time to think about something else as a survivable deterrent? The timelines are too long AND the SSBN design isn't too good with that hump. I am not sure about SSBNs, given inability to miniaturise SLBMs to fit into the SSBN inner hull & feature this noisy hump with all it's attendant stealth issues.
A small writeup or a fresh blog wud be lovely about possible strategic & tactical deterrents, not necessarily nuclear (or even conventionally military)
To KAUSTAV: In terms of global benchmarking, yes, SSBNs are required because even land-/rail-mobile ICBMs have permanent static bases for storage in both peacetime & wartime & hence the ultimate form of survivable WMDs is the sea-based option. But in India's case if China is the principal threat, then it does not matter if India's sea-based comes up in the following decade & stabilises in the 2040s because in this arena China is not much better as far as capabilities & capacities go. Instead, the probability of PLAN SSNs roaming within the IOR & conducting regular patrols is far higher & hence the IN's for the next 15 years will need an appreciable number of SSGNs functioning as SSNs, followed by dedicated SSNs.
However, something that has not yet attracted India's attention in any official manner is China's projected space-based capabilities, details of which can be found here:
China’s Future Space Projects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YXt9svNRTw
China’s Space Capabilities & Japan’s Responses:
http://www.nids.mod.go.jp/publication/chinareport/pdf/china_report_EN_web_2021_A01.pdf
While the US & UK both have raised Space Forces Commands & Japan this year operationalised a Space Operations Squadron (Russia is also reported to have a Space Operations Force), India's CDS has not yet offered any soundbytes on such a vital matter. Either he has not yet been briefed about it, or there is no one qualified as yet to brief him on this subject.
hi prasun
i suppose the talks of mounting a radome on top of a a320 makes no sense as per some journos.The aircraft seems to be too small for that and the aero dynamic forces could easily destabilze such a small aircraft.
why are the boeing 777 rotting ? is it becasue of air india going bankrupt?
Your idea of 777 as a mrtt and as a awacs is brilliant .Not much people know that aircraft were rotting.IN the bargain we will geta a bigger aircraft with nearly 12 hrs on station. we can afford to mount a bigger radome??? as well as multi sensors.
can you confirm if the radome is 4 sided rather than the usual 3 sided?. why so > ?
why cant we US to design the radome as their expericance and material tech for low loss dielectric radome will help.
?
Prasunda, thanks ofcourse. India scientific & technological limitations or lack of applicability & aptitude probably puts is in this situation of not being able to do anything different to ensure deterrence. Neither PRC or Paxtan is sufficiently deterred but then stopping them from their current machinations probably requires non-nuclear measures
Prasun,
1)Why was Huawei allowed into the Indian market?
2)What is the story behind the recent Russian statement trying to tie the actions of India to the US and other nations trying to force India into anti China alliance?
3)Has Russia put on hold supply of S400 to China?
4)The supply/lease of submarine to Burma was in joint action with Russia?
5)What is the Indian Army chief discussing with UAE and the Saudis?
You have not replied to my earlier questions.Excellent article as always.
Regards!
Hi Prasun
now the bundalbaaz in TOI and others are claiming that the 6 air india planes will be A320 and not B777.
Prasun,
1)Is the performance of the DRDO AWACs comparable to other countries?
2)How is the situation on the LAC progressing?
To HOODS007 & RAD: The only aircraft that have been tested & certified to carry the long-beam AESA antenna are the EMB-145, Bombardier 6000, Saab 2000 & China’s Y-9. Airbus Military had in the late 1990s only worked on installing a radome on the A310 aircraft in cooperation with Raytheon when it was bidding for India’s AEW & CS project (the contract eventually went in favour of the A-50I PHALCON). Hence, installing a long-beam antenna on the A320 airframe will involve years of engineering & flight-test activity involving the testing of all other conformal add-on sensors & self-protection systems as well. Such add-ons have already been installed on the two B.777-300ERs used for VVIP transportation by the IAF. Hence, selection of the B.777-300ER will be risk-free, resulting in quicker deliveries. Then there is the costings issue. Since the DRDO had quoted a figure of Rs.5,113 crore for 3 A330-based AEW & CS platforms (using brand-new airframes), a figure of Rs.10,500 crore for 6 B.777-based platforms using second-hand B.777-300ER airframes makes perfect sense, since the cost of second-hand A320 aircraft is much lower than that of the B.777-300ER.
To RAD: All data & slides of the CABS-developed radome & 4-antenna AESA configuration were uploaded in the DEFEXPO-2020 thread. The radome has been designed & fabricated in India by Indian OEMs.
Desi Patrakaar's own TV channel showing the B.777-300ER as the AEW & CS platform, contrary to his claims about the A320: AEW & CS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TPzcSn0O5o
To THEINDIAN: 1) Only time will tell, since the platform's prototype has yet to be test-flown. 2) https://theprint.in/opinion/indian-armys-dash-to-dhaka-in-1971-was-operational-brilliance-it-holds-lessons-for-ladakh/568171/
Sadly, military theory has never been our forte—49 years later, we still remain focussed on the tactical level of war. The public and the media are generally obsessed with battles. Note our focus on encounters to kill terrorists in counter-insurgency operations. They rarely involve discussing political/military aims/strategy, and the operational-level execution. In Eastern Ladakh, our focus has been on the Galwan incident—the night of 15/16 June—and the extent of specific Chinese intrusions at various points. We failed to note the brilliant operational-level plan of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), which through a number of coordinated tactical operations achieved its strategic aim. China sullied our political/military reputation, secured its 1959 claim line, neutralised our defensive strategy, prevented development of border infrastructure in critical areas, and made large tracts of our territory vulnerable for cherry-picking in the event of an escalation. Above all, it didn’t fire a single shot. An apt comparison to explain the difference in the Indian and Chinese approach is of the man on the fence who sees the situation up to 500 metres versus an eagle in the sky that gets the larger picture.
On Vijay Diwas, apart from traditional ceremonials, the military must also resolve to master the theory of war and adapt it to our environment. Of course, it needs a review of the Professional Military Education programme. But along with it, we must also study the operational-level absolute victory in the 1971 Bangladesh War, and relate it to incomplete victory in 1947-48, defeat in 1962, stalemate in 1965, laboured restoration of status quo in the 1999 Kargil War, and still groping in the dark in Eastern Ladakh.
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Greece to Trade-in Mirage-2000s for 18 Rafales:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ouLsqSoZ4
Even the Greeks are now ditching the Mirage-2000 in favour of the Rafale, while the UAE has opted for the F-35 JSF. And you still want the IAF to continue procuring Mirage-2000s & not Rafales?
Prasun Da, do you concur with the below news report on how India occupied the dominating heights :
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.in/india/how-indian-armys-secrecy-unorthodox-deployment-fooled-the-chinese-at-pangong-tso/566136/%3f__twitter_impression=true&.
To SUMANTHA NAG: LoLz! Don't you find it laughable that the real-estate which India claimed as her own & lying well away from China's LAC claim-line was left unoccupied & unheld by Indian military from November 28 1962 till August 2020? So did India suddenly discover in August 2020 that the real-estate lying on the dominating heights was, after all, sovereign Indian territory that had to be held on to & defended? No wonder commentators like Lt Gen (Ret'd) H S Panag have stated that China sullied our political/military reputation, secured its 1959 claim line, neutralised our defensive strategy, prevented development of border infrastructure in critical areas, and made large tracts of our territory vulnerable for cherry-picking in the event of an escalation. Above all, it didn’t fire a single shot. An apt comparison to explain the difference in the Indian and Chinese approach is of the man on the fence who sees the situation up to 500 metres versus an eagle in the sky that gets the larger picture.
And no amount of chest-thumping & self-patting can wish away such hard realities!
Agree, Prasun Da, BTW, what's the present status of road development especially DSBDO, also there are reports like PRC constructing Heliport in Akshai Chin ?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sentinelassam.com/amp/national-news/china-constructing-heliport-in-aksai-chin-area-reveal-satellite-images-516401
And only option was for India, as you have rightly stated to counter occupy some real estate in Tibet, which seems lost now. Also, it's frustrating to see, the Military planners opting for Towed Artillery, while presently nearly all major armies switching over to Truck MGS, inspite of Road infrastructure in Border Area having vast improvement , also no sign of f setting up of space command, despite India having a fledgling Space Industry,asset and ASAT capability. It's ridiculous.
Dear Prasun,
From your comment now I am very much certain that in the event of escalation, China will crush India with iron hand and our soldiers will be just scapegoat. Then we will celebrate Balidan diwas!!!!! Time has already passed anyway for India to deal with the military might of China. Am I right?
Hi Prasun,
I understand the logic regarding Boeing 777ER you have explained above.
But the media reports talk of A320/321 (depending on whom and what you read), being selected. They are not sure if they are given long beam/rotor dome radars either. Its confusing. So what is selected and what is not? Please explain.
Isnt it easy to buy in additional EMB14I Netras, and buy some preowned Bombardier Global 5000 and get it fixed with ELTA EL/M ISAR systems for NTRO usage.
Then go for Boeing 777ERs (15 with Air India and 10 with Jet Airways). Use them for Refuelers/AE&WS/AGS versions. Ratheyon and Boeing will be more than willing to work with DRDO here.
Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri
Prasunda
Thanks for the excellent posts. Gen. Panag hit the nail on the head exactly. Meanwhile, An excellent article, if dated, by Captain Jawahar Bhagwat PhD, a submariner having commanded German HDW subs & a scholar soldier leader, son of Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat in a long & enlightening article gives two indirect data points.
1. Arihant Class design will be used for the SSN minus the VLS plug.
2. Arihant Class is SSGN not SSBN, the secrecy maintained would have been more for SSBNs as he gives out on the history of nuclear submarines.
http://forceindia.net/guest-column/time-to-get-real/
To SUMANTA NAG: here is the complete report on all infrastructure development activities being undertaken by China in TAR & South Xinjiang:
http://forceindia.net/cover-story/on-a-building-spree/
To ASD: You will find much more data & information from the ongoing Military Literature Festival, which can be viewed from here:
https://militaryliteraturefestival.com/
To SRINIVASA NANDURI: The following slides will provide more insights:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xyvDFoef9d4/Xj0ugSMCG5I/AAAAAAAASeM/M4_fVxXat-oYVsDGnNgihPjm3iL9Xva1gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/DSC00774.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-twDGEOqQ-XE/Xj0uedp2R8I/AAAAAAAASeE/1DM6TU3GkQYgq574QmDqI8a-HpwHpkc-gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/DSC00777.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q85qFRc0iLw/XjlfYYqeTNI/AAAAAAAASZE/WPpZROJxL30Xt4XOAhwv2rCjx35dEsuuACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Desi%2BAEW%2B%2526%2BCS%2BDome%2Bfor%2B%2524-array%2BAntenna.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ejw2eFwTeYY/Xj0xvA0dM5I/AAAAAAAASgI/EH8MuqCxazsV1UmYMb3Nc0wsY3QWOq4EwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/DSC01009.jpg
Note that the radome has been structurally designed & engineered to comply with FAR airworthiness certification standards of the US, not EASA standards of Europe. That itself indicates which airframe has been selected. Even the long-beam AESA installation on the EMB-145 NETRA was compliant only with FAR standards, not EASA standards.
To KAUSTAV: VMT. He was the CO of INS Chakra when that SSGN had sustained the damage to its sonar dome while at sea & when the MoD mandated that accountability ought to be fixed as the damage sustained had cost the IN US$20 million to repair, he decided to put in his papers instead of subjecting himself to a Board of Inquiry.
Two panel discussions worth absorbing at the ongoing Military Literature Festival 2020:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xww9g2o1rpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ynTu_2114
Plus this video & explanation (whose contents cannot be verified) on Point 5104:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysEYB_aLmI
DearPrasun,
What is this nonsense? Now everybody knows that China won't go back from what it has achieved!!!!! Now why all such bullshit is coming in the media?
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ladakh-standoff-india-china-resume-diplomatic-talks-agree-to-continue-work-towards-complete-disengagement-at-earliest/articleshow/79798811.cms
Hi Prasun,
Thanks for the clarification.
And if you YouTube video on Point 5104 is real than its more embarrassing than anything. Our soldiers were simply not equipped with right gear to face the PLA.
Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri
To SRINIVASA NANDURI: That videoclip appears to be taken at Finger-4 in Panggong Tso's north bank sometime in August, and does not show any Indian soldier. Nor are the stones being shown hurled are directly at the PLA-BDR soldiers. Then the person holding the camera to record the event is speaking in Hindi. From all this, we can conclude that the videoclip was showing a PLA-BDR rehearsing the storming of a nearby hilltop. In an actual operation the PLA-BDR would have carried China's flag, usually carried by the concerned unit's political commissar.
Meanwhile, the PLAAF has dispatched a Y-9G ECM aircraft & a KJ-500 AEW & CS platform to participate in the ongoing EX SHAHEEN-IX at Bholari air base in Sindh province. Looks like the PLAAF is very anxious to learn from the PAF what exactly happened & how on the morning of February 27, 2019 over southern Jammu.
To ASD: Ladakh Warriors: Sons of the Soil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMjklhEcZ6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk-3KpeH2ic
Your views prasun da wrt our ssn program and ssnx https://news.usni.org/2020/11/20/navy-new-virginia-block-vi-virginia-attack-boat-will-inform-ssnx
Sir, In this video you've posted above -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ynTu_2114
The final comments from Gen HS Panag about not disengaging and the counter by Mr.Ram Madhav about being "flexible" to get LAC jotted down on map are interesting. Do you think the present govt is open to disengaging if LAC is formalised? Also he seems to indicate that the costs are very high for the current deployment.
Your thoughts and assessments please.
-Mika
Dear Prasun,
You posted about Ladakh warriors. I really appreciate these soldiers. But will they stand a minute to fully mechanised PLA of China? I'm sceptical thanks to GoI.
Hi Prason , what are your views on tolado class with both aip and li ion https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/12/italys-new-type-u212-nfs-submarine-program-moving-forward-with-occar/
Hi, how capable is DRDO high band jammers compared to EL/M 8222 WB jammer and sky shield jammer,
Where India stands against Chinese jet based jamming Pod capabilities,
I also request you to write an article on this
Waiting for Ur reply
Thank you
Special Frontier Force October 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLU_j2_uMtE
ATAGS Test-Firings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTvvTt7FLM0
Zoji La Pass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyz22ZeWqE8
Will Bangladesh be the Next China? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7OTDHyUnBw
PLA-BDR LORROS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f4iXbwJVCc
Indian Police Reforms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fO3gnzk_mM
Italy Type-212 SSK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI0vUbzJdWU
Naval Journey of India https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWQnM5HCafo
And some interesting reads:
https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=cmsi-maritime-reports
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RRA100/RRA127-1/RAND_RRA127-1.pdf
https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/CASI/documents/Research/CASI%20Articles/2020-12-17%20PLA's%20improving%20Close%20Air%20Support%20capability.pdf?ver=5Jah3h28qsohyD4SkMYz-g%3d%3d
What is your taken on recent lifting of Artillery import embargo ? Isnt our industry currently strong enough to furnish the needs of IA ? with ATAGS and the likes . Post the ban lift Elbit offers to build 70% of its guns in india . Is this yet another case where the world arms lobby feeds us with instant gratification for tech domains whose mastery for us is just around the corner ? and curtail our local efforts ?
https://www.thedailystar.net/news/us-fleet-in-bay-of-bengal-a-game-of-deception
Please show the proof document that both US & UK navies were no where near Bay of Bengal during 1971
Couldn’t able to find any
Ron
Hi Prasunji,
Going through your old post I came across the fact that India has IPR related to Type 209/1500 submarine. Could India have produced more Shishumar Class submarines like Bofors Gun because OFB had TOT documents?
Thanks & Regards,
Hardik Thanki
Prasun,
Your opinion please!
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/drdo-says-it-can-fulfil-indian-armys-1800-artillery-gun-requirement-calls-atags-howitzer-best-in-the-world
1)Is it possible to integrate a dual ejector rack on right wing of LCA(just like one on left wing) which is capable of carrying 2 BVR Missiles?
2)Will AstraMK2(dual pulse rocket motor -likely to be ready by 2022) be integrated with Tejas MK1A & Mirage 2000 I?
3)How many M2000 H/TH has been upgraded to I/TI standard till now?
Thanks!
MAVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMGWzOql-78
Sir, it seems a spectacular terror strike is imminent in the coming weeks.
To MIKA: Firstly, that chap was a total misfit in that panel discussion & had nothing credible or substantive to contribute. Secondly, as a result, the GoI too won’t give any credence to such opinions. Thirdly, he is not the only one to hold on to such regressive & ill-advised opinions. In another webinar the former foreign secretary of MEA expressed hios total surprise that China could confront India at a time when the later was ‘down’ due to the pandemic, firther stating that one does not harm anyone who is on his/her knees. Here’s that webinar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_6Vu5jDio&t=8s
Now, what he stated/expressed in reality directly contradict what Kautilya’s Arthashastra teaches, i.e. when an adversary is down on his knees, that’s the time to kick him even harder on his balls. So, this proves that all such ‘personalities’ & ‘intellectuals’ who offer soundbytes about abiding by Kautilya’s edicts & assessments, have in reality not read the Arthashastra at all & instead they only pretend to be well-versed in Arthashastra.
And then we have the issue of short-lived memories. For instance, while everyone is now stating that the armed clash of June 15 in the Galwan River-Valley was a seminal moment, they conveniently that the ‘KHATRE KI GHANTI’ was sounded on August 15, 2017 when this violent clash between the PLA-BDR & the ITBP took place:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edEiFSaRdyU
To ASD: At such high altitudes, mechanised operations are impossible to launch. Only at lower altitudes (plateaux) can such operations be mounted.
To AUTHOR: Using any AIP module to recharge Lithium-Ion batteries is the best option, since such a process involves only chemical reactions & hence no mechanical movements are reqd & this in turn quietens a submarine even further.
To 3rd-EYE & THEINDIAN: Here is the latest video of the all-figital ATAGS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC7H_-paksE
In my view, the extension of the embargo date to 2021 was meant purely for price negotiations, i.e. trying to ensure that the acquisition cost quoted by the KALYANI Group/ELBIT Systems combine was comparable to that quoted by TATA. Eventually, it is the ATAGS that will be ordered & not the ATHOS or its Bharat-52 clone.
To RON: You could easily have done your own research online to access this:
https://idsa.in/system/files/jds/jds_9_2_2015_RaghavendraMishra.pdf
The USS Enterprise Command Histories for 1971–72 bring out that the ship along with escorts left ‘Yankee Station’45 off Vietnam on 10 December. TF 74 assembled in holding area north-east off Singapore on 12 December, and transited the Straits of Malacca on 14 December, arriving in the Indian Ocean on 15 December. Thereafter, the US Naval Task Force moved off the southern tip of the Indian Sub-continent to await instructions. During its deployment in the Indian Ocean, the Soviet Indian Ocean Force ships, usually more than one, were in company. TF 74 operations continued until the morning of 8 January 1972 when it returned to Subic Bay in the Philippines. From the recent accounts, TF 74 did not enter the Bay of Bengal as mentioned in the 1980 narrative by Admiral Krishnan, then Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Naval Command (FOCINCEAST). This is also borne out by the first-hand account of then Captain Swaraj Prakash, Commanding Officer of INS Vikrant during the 1971 conflict.50 Admiral S.M. Nanda, Chief of the Naval Staff (CNS) during 1971 conflict, in his 2004 autobiography, provides a slightly different version where TF 74 on exiting the Straits of Malacca on 14 December 1971, headed due east to operate in an area south–south-east of Sri Lanka until heading back to the Pacific theatre on 8 January 1972.
To HARDIK THANKI: Most definitely. It therefore remains a mystery till this day why the NDA-1 govt did not terminate the embargo placed on HDW back in the year 2000 & instead opted for evaluating the Scorpene & Amur-1650 SSK designs.
To MAVE: 1) The dual-ejector rack is specified for both wings of the Tejas Mk.1A. 2) SFDR is already ready, but its integration with the Astra-2’s airframe is now underway. 3) About 1.5 squadrons.
To DASHU: Only a fool/idiot will carry out any form of cross-LoC offensive operations with foot-soldiers anywhere along the Kashmir Valley during wintertime. However, at much lower altitudes like in southern Jammu, it is possible to carry out ground-based shallow tactical offensives bu this will lead to high casualties on both sides. Hence, any Indian offensive move, if undertaken, will involve either long-range rocket artillery assaults or the IAF attacking with standoff PGMs. The principal targets will then likely be the Battalion HQs of the AJK Mujahid Forces opposite Jammu, from where the maximum number of CFVs have been registered as explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrulHrbtKdE&t=3s
Interview of India's CDS: https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/interview/story/20201228-there-will-be-no-compromise-1750669-2020-12-18
Interesting discussions & analysis:
Future of QUAD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wG_e2nOfI8&t=163s
Self-Reliance & Military Preparedness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EmVVDs-q7Y
1971 Meghna River Crossing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip5y2vUCNmk
Khalistan Conspiracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJJBGSXhjxI
Pluralism & the Defence Forces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKeWAK7n5aY
Why do Indians Shun Science? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3rFAoPGtyc
Does India Require a Course-Correction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbCpoh5NxcA
1971 Tangail Para Drops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjnNVlxfR_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA89N9QHYqw
1971 Air Battles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hap8bXYIdJ0
1971 Battle of Poonch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1dyKXpBzXo
1971 OP X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EejMkg1Fag0
China’s Financing Activities in South Asia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MGLT3mDg6w
China’s Infrastructure Development Activities in Southeast Asia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-H-61uPhU
Conflict in Myanmar’s Rakhine State: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYM4aWrTFs
Countering China’s Disinformation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm-otpGFYKs
A group of Chinese in civilian clothes riding in two vehicles recently crossed the Indian border into Changthang village in Nyoma area, 135km east of Leh in Ladakh, as per a video circulated by local residents. The Chinese, who were in civilian clothes, were apparently objecting to the local nomads allowing their cattle to graze in the area. But they were forced to go back after strong protests from the local residents, who also informed ITBP personnel in the area. They are later forced to retreat after strong protests by the local villagers, with ITBP personnel also swinging into action to confront them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Gyv2wY7-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe-bbuEl4X4
Prasunda,
1) Given that Agni-5 first tested in 2012 is still not operational, would it not take the K-6 slbm 10-12 years after the first test to be deployable aboard SSBNs ? Therefore, wo'nt it be necessary to start flight testing the K-6 around 2024-25 if it is to be operational by the mid to late 2030's ? The bulava (even with Russia's experience) also has a 10+ year timeline from initial flight testing to IOC.
2) If yes to 1), is initial testing of the K-6 likely around 2024-25 ?
Satyaki
Mirage-2000 documentary by DD channel
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2zT0XxHqiV0
Why is india hell bent on making own new AIP technology from scratch when proven technologies like swedish sterling or even german hydrogen oxygen combination is available for induction...
Hi Prasunji,
If we have the bloody blueprints to Type 209/1500 submarine then why the hell we are going for a new design of submarines for Project 75I and not asking HDW to modify and enlarge Type 209 submarine and save a ton of time and money.
Thanks & Regards
Hardik Thanki
To SATYAKI: 1) K-6's stage-by-stage test-firings will commence by 2025 but for the complete SLBM will be flight-tested only in the latter half of the following decade.
To AMIT BISWAS: The MAREEM AIP module is already a validated design & is now in the stage of engineering maturation, i.e. 90% of the R & D has been completed.
To HARDIK THANKI: Because all the industrial machinery & toolings for constructing the Class 209/Type 1500 SSK were disposed off & sold by MDSL in the previous decade itself & after Scorpene SSK contract had been inked. And all the skilled workforce trained by HDW for constructing Class 209/Type 1500 hulls are no longer working with MDSL & had left MDSL in the late 1990s for more lucrative jobs in the Middle East.
Respected PKS Sir,
As highlighted in ur comments at 5:46 am dated 21Dec2020 and self evident from the two youtube videos that clearly show that the chinese have illegally entered in our sovereign land and threatened/challenged us by standing on our motherland and tried to grab it by force and our civil administration only pacifies them by only talking? Why didn't we arrested them to be tried in our judicial courts? OR simply shoot these bastards? I can quote such several why's but to no avail Indians will not perform the right actions or uphold our constitutional rights and enforce them! This is sheer disappointment!!!
AKS
Prasunda,
VMT Would it take more than a decade to begin flight testing following stage by stage testing ? Or do you mean fight testing begins in the late 2020s. Only the second case would mean initial deployment in SSBNs in the late 2030s or about 2040.
Satyaki
hi prasun
you menioned that the SFDR is ready , can you throwsomew light onthat as we have seen no more than 2 test launches.
My take was we could have selected the working design AIP, so that scorpenes being inducted now without AIP would have been avoided
Sir, who do you think killed Karima Baloch in Canada ?
Could it be a job of somebody trying to defame Paki establishment ? maybe r&aw, or mossad. or cia ?
Is the paki establishment so powerfull to carry out such assasination operartions ?
Does Indian establishment have any such capacity.
Thank you
Dear Prasun,
I'm totally confused. You always tell that under-confident fellow like me describe the Chinese as 6 feet tall. Then you describe about their fully mechanisation plan by 2025. This again scares me. Then you say mechanisation doesn't work in high altitude.
So what can I conclude? India will still have decisive hand in the case of a high degree intensity war due to its experience in high altitude warfare. Is it so? Or China will dominate?
Further how would China react when India tries to get back PoK. What would be the probable action that we can expect from China against India?
To AKS: The biggest dilemma of India is that while such territories were shown to be India’s only on maps published since 1954, they were never inhabited or even patrolled until 1959. No permanent observation posts were set up even then & even after the 1962 war no attempt was made to establish a permanent physical presence in such areas. Instead, only nomadic herders engaged in seasonal forays in such areas. Hence, since 2002 China has found it very easy to venture into such areas & has slowly absorbed it permanently. Those who were shown as Chinese civilians were most likely PLAGF personnel in civvies, since the nomadic Tibetans across the LAC never engage in such protests & the last time they were forced to do so in Demchok in 2017 they openly stated that they were being forced to make such protests by the PLA-BDR personnel & on their own they would never protest.
To SATYAKI: As I stated before, stage tests will begin from 2022 onwards & continue till 2026. After that the fully integrated SLBM with its MIRV payloads will be flight-tested.
To AMIT BISWAS: At the time R & D work began on the MAREEM, there was only one mature AIP system available, i.e. the Sterling. The MESMA was considered too complex & unstable. And since a lot of money has been spent opn MAREEM, it makes perfect sense to stick to it & induct it into service.
To MANISH 2: Only the RCMP can now answer that, following the conduct of the necessary investigations.
To ASD: I had already explained it all way back on March 20, 2020 in the thread dealing with both mountain warfare & high-altitude plateau warfare. Furthermore, China is far ahead of India in terms of possessing institutions of higher learning (China has National Defence University, whereas India has only the National Defence College), plus being ahead of the curve when it comes to reforming Professional Military Education (PME) syllabus, as well as command theaterisation. For i8nstance, kindly have this report translated from Mandarin into English & read its contents:
http://www.81.cn/jw/2020-11/26/content_9942764.htm
hi Prasun
DRDO and indian private companies like VEM are developing new AESA products like NETRA and New radars for IAF but there is not credible info available on whether these are based on GaA or GaN tech. i know DRDO and others labs have made GaN T/R modules for different bands but have they been actually incorporated in any under developed or finished products? NETRA is based on GaA tech but what about the upcoming CABS full AWACS?
Sir, Is this for India?
https://twitter.com/RAFAELdefense/status/1341785476521451520?s=19
Sir, the Barak-8 fired today by IA was mounted on 8×8 Ashok Leyland truck instead of the humongous trailer-tractor launcher of the IAF. Why can't IAF switch to 8×8 version like IA? Am I right that IA MRSAM variant is the 90 km variant operational with IN, while IAF will get the 150 km ER variant?
To RAD: The SFDR-based propulsion system has been validated & now it needs to be integrated with the missile-body of Astra-2 & so that the BVRAAM’s avionics package can be tested for reliability & ruggedness.
To HOODS007: Only DRDO is designing developing AESA T/R modules. Companies like BEL, VEM & Astra Microwave only produce them. The T/R modules on all future AEW & CS platforms developed by CABS will use GaN T/R modules.
To HARSH: Yes, but the Spice-2000s are for the Rafales while the BNET-AR SDRs are for the MiG-29UPGs & MiG-29Ks. On June 7, 2019 the IAF had signed signed a Rs.300 crore contract with RAFAEL for additional Spice-2000 PGMs for its upgraded Mirage-2000Ns & Su-30MKI under the special financial powers given for emergency purchases. Deliveries were completed within 90 days.
To PRATAP: I fail to understand why the IA requires Barak-8 MR-SAMs, because the IAF has already ordered both MR-SAM & LR-SAM versions of Barak-8 for ground-based air-defence of both vulnerable areas & vulnerable points. For the IA’s Corps of Air Defence Artillery, possession of Akash-1 E-SHORADS & QR-SAM SHORADS is more than enough, since any hostile combat aircraft won’t be launching any PGMs from medium or high altitudes against any advancing IA ground formation. Instead, straffing runs will be conducted from an altitude of not more than 500 feet. Hence, apart from E-SHORADS & SHORADS, what the IA needs are close-in weapon systems with high rates of fire (like OFB-built AK-530M) for intercepting gliding/powered PGMs. MR-SAMs are reqd only if an entire IA Corps-sized formation comprising 3 Divisions decides to enter deep inside hostile territory, but under a nuclear overhang both to the west & the north, such a scenario is an impossibility for the foreseeable future.
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