This is exactly how the Rustom-1 MALE-UAV is being exhibited in scale-model form by the DRDO at the DSEi exhibition now underway in the UK. The scale-model is bereft of mission sensors and communications/data-link antenna, and there isn’t even an artist’s conception anywhere within the DRDO pavilion which shows the Rustom-1’s final production-series form and shape, or that of its ground control station. That’s how the DRDO is projecting India’s military-industrial capabilities abroad!—Prasun K. Sengupta
according to DRDO, that's because it classified so they dont wanna reveal to much..
ReplyDeleteLOL..
Any other Indian or Pakistani products on display?
ReplyDeleteWhy is Caesar 17.7 Tonnes and Archer 30 Tonnes. Is there any extra advantage with Archer.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon@7.19PM: From India the OFB, Indian Defence Shipyards and DRDO are participating. From Pakistan there's POF, DEPO and AERO. Chinese companies like ALIT and NORINCO are there too. In terms of presentation and marketing projection, the Chinese and Pakistanis are way way ahead of India. A very interesting exhibit is Turkey's SOM CALCM, which bears a close resemblance to Pakistan's Ra'ad CALCM. Will upload an analysis of this resemblance with photos ASAP.
ReplyDeleteTo Mr.RA: The Caesar was developed from the very outset to be air-transportable and by consequence, have strategic mobility in terms of out-of-area expeditionary land campaigns. The Archer on the other hand was designed to have excellent cross-country mobility (thanks to the all-terrain Volvo dump-truck serving as the carrier vehicle), provided this is limited to interior lines of communication, typified by the excellent roadways crisscrossing the Nordic/Scandinavian countries like Denmark, Norway & Sweden. The Archer also possesses a higher degree of automation and carries an integral autoloading ammo-loader-cum-ammo bustle carrying more rounds than the Caesar's 6 x 6 carrier vehicle. Therefore, from an Indian perspective, the Caesar is seen as being a more acceptable solution than the Archer. You can read more about the Caesar at: http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2008/10/fine-tuning-of-indias-field-artillery.html
Yes, Caesar seems to be better except for firing rounds per minute, i.e. @ 8 Vs 6, which should be digested in the overall perspective. Caesar can also be expected to be cheaper.
ReplyDeleteBTW, is there any concern regarding accuracy or other tech matters.
To Mr.RA: The Caesar has the Sigma-30 ring laser gyro-based autonomous land navigation system, the same as that on the Pinaka MBRL launcher. Furthermore, as it will obtain fire direction cues from counter-battery radars like the TPQ-37, plus daya from meteorological radars, its fire-assaults are highly accurate and precise.
ReplyDeleteI am not getting, are we purchasing CAESAR or Archer ? I thought everything is put on hold at-least till UPA is running the government.
ReplyDeleteAlso according to the requirement we will be purchasing around 150 of these.
What is the progress with IA's VSHORAD MANPAD requirement ? How big is the deal ?
Also i remember IA was looking forward to replace there Tunguska. Whats the progress ?
How many NBC recce vehicles are on order ?
DRDO was building unmanned land vehicle based on BMP2. Whats the progress ?
Whats IA doing about replacing their vintage Light Utility Vehicle like Maruti Gypsy, Windy, Maruti Gypsy etc. ? Are we not going to purchase vehicles like HUMVEE ?
Are we purchasing Skyranger / Skyshield air defence gun ?
Is IN going to purchase any of the helicopters this year ?
Which deal IA is going to sign this year ?
Any important deal going to Indian private companies other than FICV project ?
I heard the DRDO-Snecma version of Kaveri will be as per requirement of 5th gen aircraft (AMCA) and so will be the AESA. How much is true about this ? What will be the new features of both our aesa and kaveri engine that will make it suitable for 5th gen aircraft ?
What with the new Mazagoan Dock Pipavav JV ? So all other shipyards are screwed in short or MOD has plans to support these shipyards ? I am asking this because without any project our private shipyard will shut down in 3-4 years.
Dear Prasun
ReplyDeleteCaesar video was excellent, However i think india should buy Archer for its high accuracy , range, automation & similarity to Bofors FH 02.
Caesar role can be played by ULH M777A2 which is highly accurate & light. It can be transported air by even Medium lift helicopters & can be attached to any cross country truck for off road mobility. May be thats way itis considered by IA. Please refer youtube video:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ksVhgbqaDE
When Caesar is techno-economically capable and needed, then why so much delay in procurement. Boffors ghost shall not unnecessarily be allowed to reign for so long.
ReplyDeleteBTW is DRDO developing something equivalent or better.
Caesar is not economical infact it is Archer which is cheap Please check Army-guide.com for average cost.
ReplyDeleteIMO Archer better as it have higher accuracy, range & commonality with our existing bofors gun systems. Moreover it is highly automated and need only crew of 3 instead of 5-6 in case of Caesar
as far as Light Howitzer is concerned Indian army is Buying M777A2 which is easily transportable by air ( even Helicopter can transport) or cross country by any existing Truck of indian army.
Please refer video which demonstrate Archer :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpobrfOhohI
Pawan
why my comments are not appearing?
ReplyDeleteI think Archer is better than Caesar as we already have Bofors. also Caesar is costly as compared to archer
ReplyDeleteTo Anon@8.41AM: The competitive bidding process is presently on and no final decision on product selection has taken place. But it looks like the Caesar will be the main contender due to its air-transportability by C-130J-30 type of aircraft.
ReplyDeleteTo Mr.RA: The competitive tendering procedure as mandated by the DPP regulations must be adhered to. There cannot be a restricted tendering process involving a sole supplier. The DRDO is several years away from mastering the art of designing and fabricating 155mm/52-cal howitzers.
To PAWAN: It's the other way around. Caesar is cheaper as it is in series production now and has been ordered in far larger numbers than the Archer. In addition, the Archer will be politically a suicidal choice. That's why the Archer is not even being proposed by its manufacturer for the competitive bidding process.
At least the competitive tendering process can be put on a cleaner and faster track. Moreover Caesar has already gathered some variety of customer experience so it may stand better chances.
ReplyDeletesir can u plzz tell what exactly will be going iside our lch at helos in terms of multispectral sensors , targeting systems , avionics , protection suites , weapons and how will this attack copter compare to other helos like eurotiger , wz10 , mangusta , etc ??
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you make of the JSF F-35 being the future of USAF and USN aviation? Can it take on the fighters from Russia,Europe and even China?
Why is its development proving so problematic given they have have experience with more advanced F-22?
Why Soltam 155/52 Atmos Howitzer is not so popular as compared to its competitors.
ReplyDeleteTo Mr.RA: The principal bottleneck has already been identified, and the Naresh Chandra Committee has been entrusted with the task of suggesting streamlined procedures/practices. This is how it presently works: after the individual armed services frame their respective QRs, these QRs go to HQ Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) for prioritisation and following this, each armed service issues RFIs while at the same time the HQ IDS' consolidated force modernisation wishlist/recommendations go to the MoD's Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC) and after DAC approval is accorded, it proceeds to the MoD's Defence Acquisitions Wing (DAW), which is responsible for issuance of RFPs. The bottleneck begins with the DAC, which takes a very long time to approve the force modernisation wishlist and even after the DAW receives it, much more time is lost in the issuance of RFPs. If only the CAG were to do an audit of the notional loss (the much hated term by the likes of Kapil Sibal) to the national exchequer as a result of the delayed decision-making process, the whole of India would be in for a paralytic shock!!!
ReplyDeleteTo Anon@8.22PM: Let's get the basics right first. The IAF's claim of requiring the LCH for shooting down UAVs at high altitudes is at best flawed and is downright mischievous at worst. In all past cases where UAVs have been shot down (be it over Lebanon, Pakistan or in the Caucasus), it was fixed-wing combat aircraft that easily detected, tracked and shot down the UAVs. Secondly, as a consequence of what I've stated above, the 'L' from the LCH needs to be removed and instead it needs to be developed as a dedicated attack helicopter like the A-129 Mangusta, featuring heavier stub-wings. If this is the point of departure, then it would be logical to insist that such a platform be equipped with the mandatory chin-mounted 20mm cannon, 8 to 12 medium-range anti-armour guided-missiles like the Hellfire or PARS-3LR or Spike-ER or HELINA (that is, whenever it surfaces), plus 2.75-inch laser-guided rockets (like the DAGR from Lockheed Martin), and up to two air-to-air missiles like the Mistral-ATAM or Strelets. As for sensors, a combination of miniaturised stub-wing mounted millimetre-wave radar (available from Northrop Grumman) and a nose-mounted optronic suite (of the type available from ELBIT Systems or THALES) is mandatory. For self-defence, an integrated suite similar to the ones developed for the Dhruv Mk4 (Rudra) that includes a missile approach warning system will be just fine.
ReplyDeleteTo Shree: When you speak of the F-35 JSF 'taking' on combat aircraft like the Rafale, EF-2000, JAS-39NG, T-50 PAK-FA or J-20, it must be noted that the JSF will not be going into battle ihn isolation, but it will instead be accompanied by a host of networked airborne platforms like ELINT/SIGINT aircraft and AEW & C platforms. In other words, it won't just be the combat platform that will have to be superior (already the JSF is flying with fourth-generation AQESA-based MMRs, while the Europeans and Russia are only now beginning to field their first-generation AESA-based MMRs), but the entire network-centric battlespace which will have to ensure air dominance/supremacy. In this arena, while the Europeans through their NATO membership can avail of the appropriate US-supplied network-centric tools/platforms, the Russians and Chinese are way behind when t comes to such network-centric tools/platforms.
ReplyDeleteTo Mr.RA: The SOLTAM Systems ATMOS was brought to India for in-country mobility/firepower trials as far back as 2002 and till date remains the only motorised 155mm/52-cal howitzer that has been shown on Indian soil. Its immediate competitor is the T5-52 from DENEL Land Systems of South Africa. Both systems make use of the TATRA 815 truck, whose left-hand drive variant continues to be shamelessly licence-built by BEML. While the ATMOS and T5-52 can be air-transported by C-17A Globemaster III, they cannot by the C-130J-30. The SOLTAM Systems product that is not so popular in India is not the ATMOS, but the ATHOS-2052 towed 155mm/52-cal howitzer, whose in-country trials back in 2004 were unsuccessful.
ReplyDeleteI was talking to an ex-Navy man in Australia and he said something that rings true of the current issue between the IAF and the IA in India. He said that Australia lost and gave up its Aircraft Carriers and projects because the RAAF Chief convinced the government that the RAAF can handle all fixed and rotary wing assets from the land and there was no need for the Navy to have any aircrafts.Now that they have realised the mistake they are going for the LHDs and LPDs.He also said he is unaware of Australia is acquiring or building any Aircraft Carriers which SAAB brochure to the Indian Navy has mentioned.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon@5.03AM: The Australian is absolutely right. And that's the reason why the RAN will now have to spend an exorbitant amount in re-raising crew complements to man the LHDs, which is why the LHDs are so costly, which people in general fail to grasp. Regarding the Saab brochure on the navalised Gripen, it is really a waste of time in India's case since the LCA (Navy) Mk2 will be able to do everything the Gripen can and will be able to do. The real competition for the Indian Navy's IAC-2 aircraft carrier programme will be between the Rafale and the navalised version of the FGFA, which is now being worked upon in Russia.
ReplyDeleteTo Prasun @ 6.48AM
ReplyDeleteIf what you said is true about the IAC-2, does that mean the Rafale is also a frontrunner for the MMRCA? I ask as the FGFA also involves Indian participation.
but sir IA is also buying the lch and i don't think they will will be using it just to shoot down some uav's , i guess they will be using it to take on the armored juggernauts of the pakistani army while supporting the strike corps......
ReplyDeleteplus no matter what we call it , it will be a combat helicopter in lightweight category.....but we should develop each and every capability for enabling it to take on every role an attack helo has to used for and not just for shooting down uavs at high altitudes....but lch will be able to take on tanks with its atgms....??
will lch be able to carry atgm's in duad packs ?? if not why ?? cuz weapon mockup have shown carrying only 2 atgms per pylon.....
sir u had said that hal will be incorporating a radar in the the lch's nos e itself.....but now u are saying a radar will be on the stub wings ?????!!!
plus loved ur suggestion on the laser guided rockets......that exactly what i want to go on the lch...can we also have ir/tv/mmr guided rockets or i should say missiles for lch
sir is it true that the latest g5 er howitzer can shoot the artillery rounds more than 70kms away with all its enlarged chamber , base bleed rocket assisted stuuf attached to it ?? but without the excalibur.....can its range be further increased by using the excalibur rounds.....say more than 80kms ????
ReplyDeleteis all of this is true then why arn't we going for it....its simply the bst out there !!!!!!!!!!!!
@anon - 6.55pm: Digvijay Singh would blame the bad display as being sabotage by Hindutva...
ReplyDelete@pks - i notice your proficiency in geopolitics and geostrategy. what do you make of the indo-chinese tussle over the Sth China Sea oil exploration? Please spell your views.
Prasun, care to have a few jaggerbombs with me?
ReplyDeleteSavitri
Alright, but why hasn't the ATMOS been field tested in the country, and on what count was the ATHOS unsuccessful?
ReplyDeleteTo Anon@9.18AM: Of course! The Rafale is still very much in the M-MRCA fray for the IAF. But what almost none have taken into account is the Indian Navy’s own M-MRCA reqmt for the second Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC-2). That’s why Eurofighter GmbH is now racing ahead with all kinds og marketing campaigns for the navalised EF-2000. And since the Russians have suffered a humiliating defeat thanks to the rejection of the MiG-35, they are determined NOT TO suffer a similar fate in future and to ensure that a navalised variant of the FGFA/PMF is most definitely on the cards. That was one of the most significant discoveries/revelations that I came across during the MAKS 2011 expo last August. I wonder why haven’t the ‘desi’ journalists wandering around at Zhukovsky during the expo didn’t grasp this reality. Guess they did not know whom to talk to and what about. Well, as I said innumerable times before, shit happens.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon@9.33AM: Let us once and for all get rid of outlandish claims about making an attack hel;icopter light. Even the latest members of the Bell AH-1 Cobra family carry more ordnance than the LCH can at this stage. If the IAF insists on defending the indefensible (i.e. shooting down UAVs with helicopters), then that’s fine with me. Let’s see how far this absurdity can go. As for the Army, all it wants are attack helicopters--not light, medium or heavy--just helicopters capable of carrying an appreciable load of ordnance. And the present configuration of the LCH does not allow this to happen. What is happening today is the Army is being forced to accept the IAF’s ASQRs and live with it.
To Anon@10.09AM: All 155mm/52-cal howitzers can fire rocket-assisted projectiles out to 61km. Excalibur is not a rocket-assisted projectile, but a GPS-guided round.
To Zings: As I had stated and explained earlier, China is a non-status quo power that refuses to accept certain ground realities governing international relations and therefore there have been cases when, just based on some discoveries of Chinese pottery from past shipwrecks off the coast of western Borneo, the Chinese since the 1990s unilaterally extended their EEZ and began laying claim to the exclusive right to undertake offshore hydrocarbons exploration activity in these areas. Now, as they say, you kill an idea with another idea. If this holds true, then India too should adopt a similar approach and say the vast civilisational outreach from India all the way to Indo-China that was achieved thousands of years ago today serves as perfect justification for India to venture out to those areas and re-establish its linkages and presence there, but with 21st century characteristics. If China can make use of archaeological discoveries of sunken pottery to justify its EEZ claims, then India too ought to highlight the existence of archaeological discoveries of ancient Indian temples throughout Southeast Asia and Indo-China to reinforce her right to venture out to these regions, areas and countries. But the problem lies within India: India is a status quo power that doesn’t want to rock the boat, when the need of the hour is to think out-of-the-box. In addition, the Navy’s force modernization needs to be accelerated by a factor of three by, say acquiring eight Project 17 Shivalik-class FFGs instead of sticking to just three. Furthermore, a coalition of the willing needs to be cultivated that could possibly culminate in a series of multilateral naval exercises involving the navies of ASEAN, the US, Australia and Japan along with India in those waters which China unilaterally claims. Sooner rather than later the message will be driven home and Beijing will realise that the frequent resort to xenophobic nationalist sentiments is futile and self-defeatist.
To Anon@3.51PM: Jägerbombs? My dear, the place where I’m huddled in right now (in South Kalimantan on a business trip), guns, girls and guitars are more than enough and Jägerbombs aren’t adequate substitutes.
ReplyDeleteTo Mr.RA: The ATMOS was subjected to in-country demonstrations, and not trials, in 2002. The ATHOS was unsuccessful in terms of barrel wear. The ATMOS will now be invited for in-country trials along with the Caesar and others who have responded to the Indian Army’s RFP.
all the better, hop down to batam once done.
ReplyDeletesv
Despite all the trials I am quite sure this purchase will not be concluded by the end of this decade.
ReplyDeleteHi Prasun,
ReplyDeleteJust heard that Babus in financial di. of MoD have shot down the plan to raise the strike corps for eastern border citing budget problems...
Can you please dig it up...
Thanks..
BTW, If China needs to be historically and culturally fought in any part of South East Asia for ancient cultural dominance, I have already made a "Theory of Indolantis" to counteract any of the Imperial Powers including expansionist China.
ReplyDeletehttp://rajesh403.blogspot.com/
Since then, I have further strengthened this theory, so as to match it irrevocably with Plato.
Please enjoy... Lol...
To MrRA: There always comes a time when circumstances dictate the pace of events and in the case of motorised 155mm/52-cal howitzers this happens to be the case. Unlike the case for towed 155mm/52-cal howitzers that is associated with the Bofors scandal, the motorised howitzer reqmt is starting from a clean slate without any kind of legacy hangovers and that's why I feel its acquisition process will proceed swiftly. The only spoke on the wheel this time may come from DPSUs like BEML, which is the in-country agent for the Slovakian truck and armaments manufacturers, and which may push for the TATRA 815 trucks to be adopted as carrier vehicles for the howitzer (which won;t be acceptable to the Army as these trucks won't fit inside a C-130J-30). In addition, the Zuzana 155mm howitzer being proposed by BEML features a 45-cal barrel and not a 52-cal barrel.
ReplyDeleteTo Saurav Jha: We all know that money is not the main reason why the raising of the Mountain Corps is being questioned by the MoD. The Ministry of Environment & Forests too is making objections thereby compromising national security. In my view, the MoD is applying pressure on the present COAS Gen V K Singh so that he doesn't approach the Supreme Court regarding the validity of his tenure as Army Chief. In case he persists, then A K Antony always has the option of dismissing him from service, exactly like what George Fernandes had done to the Navy Chief Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat in December 1998( since no Raksha Mantri wants a hostile service chief). While everyone knows that the present Army Chief was undoubtedly born in 1951 and no one believes that staying on as Army Chief for another year will in any way radically transform the Army for the better, politics in Delhi predominates everything. That's why almost every armed services chief has historically run his service like his personal fiefdom and tried to dictate the succession order, be it the previous Army Chief, the present Navy Chief or past naval chiefs like Admiral Tahiliani. You really have to feel this first-hand on-site in Delhi in the corridors of power in order to believe it. Only those that are the really smart cookies manage to dodge the minefields and succeed. In that way, India is no different at all from neighbouring Pakistan--both countries still suffer from the feudal mindset.
To MrRA: Hmmmmmm....very interesting indeed! I too am working on a multi-series TV documentary tracing India's ancient maritime linkages (both in the BC and AD eras) with and campaigns launched in Southeasat Asia (starting with the Malay archipelago and thence moving northwards into Indo-China). It's high time we rediscovered our ancient glories and took pride in them.
ReplyDeleteThanx & may your efforts succeed.
ReplyDeleteTo MrRA: Very many thanks.
ReplyDeletevery many welcomes
ReplyDelete