Germany’s Krauss-Maffei
Wegmann and France’s Nexter Defense Systems (KNDS) pitched a cross between a
Leopard 2A7 chassis and a AMX-56 Leclerc turret at the Eurosatory 2018 expo in
Paris on June 11. Officially dubbed the European Main Battle Tank, or EMBT, the
vehicle is meant to showcase that German and French companies can work together
on the path toward an envisioned Main Ground Combat System pursued by both
nations, which is slated to see the light of day in the mid-2030s. Additionally,
the developers believe that this “Frankentank” meets a real-life demand, and
they hope a paying customer might take the idea and run with it. For now, the
EMBT is a demonstrator project funded by the two companies’ joint venture,
KNDS.
The
benefit of the hybrid machine lies in the Leopard 2 MBT’s “very-high
capability” chassis, which can carry up to 68 tonnes, and merging it with the
lightness of the Leclerc’s turret, which needs only a crew of two to operate.
As a result, potential customers get 10% of the weight, or 6 tonnes, to install
additional kit on the EMBT as they see fit. In essence, the EMBT is a 62-tonne hybrid
comprising a modified fuselage, a 7-axle chassis, a Leopard-2A7V propulsion
unit and a twin, lighter version of the Leclerc’s turret with an ammunition autoloader
and a 120mm CN1120-26 smoothbore cannon.
The crew thus comprises three
members (commander, gunner and driver). The biggest challenge for the
constructors was the foundation of the French turret on the German hull.
Engineers struggled not only with incompatible drives, but also had to meet the
requirements of German legislation that limit the transfer of military
technologies abroad. The next stage in the EMBT project is to develop a
prototype and launch pre-series production. To date, raction and firing tests
of the EMBT demonstrator have been successfully carried out in the south of
France.
KNDS was founded on December
15, 2015 in Amsterdam. It is worth noting that the German and French governments
are intensely eyeing the concept disclosed by Rheinmetall in February 2016,
named MGCS 2030+ (Main Ground Combat System) with a new 130mm gun. In turn,
Nexter is working on a modernised AMX-56 Leclerc MBT as part of a wider
Scorpion programme.
In terms of new revolutionary trends,
MBT developers worldwide are now gravitating towards the construction of MBTs
with weight-saving High-Nitrogen Steel (HNS), and the adoption of
turret-bustles containing ammunition stored in autoloaders. In terms of both
trends, the pioneer was Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which has since
developed the HNS-built 48-tonne Type 10 MBT, which is powered by a four-strike V8 diesel engine developing 1,200hp, thereby offering a power-to-weight ratio of 27hp/tonne.
The 57.4 tonne AMX-56 Leclerc from Nexter Systems comes powered by a 1,500hp V8X SACM 8-cylinder diesel engine that offers a power-to-weight
ratio of 27.52
hp/tonne.
To date, the French Army has
acquired 406
Leclercs of which 320 of them make up
four armoured regiments each with 80 Leclercs.
The UAE has ordered 390 Leclercs
and 46 ARVs. These are all powered by 1,500hp
MTU 883 V-12
diesel engines, coupled with the Renk
HSWL295 TM automatic transmission. All
Leclercs have autoloaders in the turret-bustles.
Even Russia has abandoned the hull-mounted horizontal carousal
autoloader and by the mid-1990s the Omsk-based KBTM OKB and Omsktransmash JSC developed the Ob'yekt 640 Black Eagle
MBT, whose turret rear contained the horizontal
autoloader-cum-ammunition stowage compartment withblow-out panels.
Russia’s Uralvagonzavod
JSC-built 48-tonne Ob’yekt 148 Armata MBT, however, has rejected
the turret-mounted autoloader-cum-ammunition stowage compartment and has instead
gone for a hull-mounted vertical autoloader.
The Armata, powered by a 1,350hp A85-3AX-diesel engine, has a power-to-weight
ratio of 31hp/tonne
(the highest among all present-day MBTs) and its 125mm 2A82-1M smoothbore cannon fires the Vacuum-1 APFSDS round that
has a 900mm-long KE penetrator, which is said to be capable of penetrating 1 metre
of RHA at a distance of 2km.
In order to maintain the
effectiveness of their respective MBT fleets until 2040, both France and
Germany have embarked on stepped life-extension programmes (SLEP). Nexter Systems
had unveilled its Leclerc XLR variant at
the Eurosatory 2016 expo. This “Scorpionisation” provides for the delivery
of 200 Leclerc XLRs and 18 Leclerc DCL armoured recovery vehicles between 2020
and 2028m which will allow the Leclerc to remain operational beyond 2040.
The
Leclerc XLR project has three main objectives: to integrate the Leclerc into
the “Scorpion bubble”, adapt it for operations in urban environments, and
improve its ability to attack. The first two prototypes will be delivered later
this year and will be directly followed by the notification of production
tranches. Destined to operate in a joint tactical “Scorpion” group, the Leclerc
will get a new open vetronics architecture, the CONTACT radio being developed
by THALES, the future Scorpion information and communication system (SICS), and an upgraded AZUR (urban environment) kit both on the hull
and turret.
The
chassis receives new side protection blocks in composite armour, which run
from the front tip of the glaze turret. Propulsion block and the back are
covered with slat-armour grids. These shields protect against infantry-fired
RPGs and LAWs. The rear of the turret
undergoes the same treatment. Nexter’s engineers have taken advantage of grid
supports to add two integral horizontal plates of the turret of the neck to
cover the propulsion block ventilation louvres. These plates prevent Molotov cocktails from breaking the propulsion
compartment at the most vulnerable spot. The
same type of plate protects the air-conditioner, which is located on the turret
roof. The rest of the MBT’s frontal arc
and turret side is already protected against other forms of projectiles.
The Leclerc’s ‘Azur’ kit will thus be a
difficult beast to touch and neutralize in complex areas. The armour is the ultimate bulwark behind which the
crewtake refuge after all other forms of protection have failed, especially the
most basic form of active protection. The
AZUR sees its DRI suit (detection, recognition, identification) completed by a
panoramic vision device mounted on the turret roof. The Israel-born ODR system gives a 360-degree
picture of the situation around the MBT. With
this panoramic view, the crew can detect the presence of hostiles by eliminating
many blind spots that typically exist on any MBT. The thus-detected enemy infantry can be neutralised
using either launchers firing the Galix 4, or the new 7.62mm remote-controlled machine
gun (RCWS) mounted on the turret roof.
This is an adapted version of one that equips the UAE’s
Leclercs. The
machine gun is equipped with a CCD camera that allows shooting via a video
screen in the delousing mode. Delousing means shooting at a friendly MBT to
remove enemy infantry which would have climbed on it. The 7.62mm rounds
wouldn’t cause damage to the structure of the MBT in question, unlike other
larger calibres. The choice of the
cupola was made for practical reasons (time reduction and availability). For the production
version, Nexter has sought better alternatives from various suppliers. The RCWS also allows shooting at high targets (roof
tops). It should be recalled that the
Leclerc now has 120mm HE explosive shells with parametrizable fuse (impact/delay),
which enables the destruction of fortifications, trenches and buildings.
The
last function of the French configuration is communications, in particular with
dismounted infantry. MBTs of the
previous generation were usually provided with an infantry phone in the form of
a box attached to the back of the MBT and containing a handset connected to the
MBT intercom system by a wire. This allowed an infantry group leader to
communicate with the crew to designate, for example, a target to destroy.
But this solution had three major drawbacks.
First, the infantryman had to activate the handset while the MBT was stopped.
This could be very dangerous for humans because of the movements of a MBT,
which ignores his presence nearby. Second, the soldier would have to leave
cover to reach the MBTs. Finally, the operating range gets limited by the
length of the telephone wire.
For all
these reasons, Nexter’s engineers simply adapted WiFi technology, which allows establishing
communications with the infantry-carried FELIN digital soldier system, while
maintaining great freedom of action with the MBT that supports them. One of the most interesting features is undoubtedly
the fuelling baskets attached to the back of the MBT. The trick is to use the
fuel cage door for hanging boxes where the infantrymen find ammunition, water,
food and miscellaneous small equipment. Supply is thus delivered without the
MBT crew having to dismount, and this also allows supplies to be delivered closer to the line of contact, where other less
protected armoured vehicles will never venture.
In Germany, Krauss-Maffei
Wegmann and Rheinmetal have co-developed the Leopard Advanced Technology
Demonstrator that contains both appliqué armour panels as well as active
protection systems. In addition, Rheinmetall
has developed a new 130mm L-51 tank cannon that should be in
production by 2025. The 130mm/L51 weighs (without mounting components)
3,000kg, while the current barrel length is 6,630mm.
As the standard NATO smoothbore gun for MBTs like Leopard 2 and M-1 Abrams,
Rheinmetall’s L-44 cannon had proved its superiority to all its rivals in the
120mm arena. This smoothbore cannon was also the precursor of Rheinmetall’s L-55
and L-47 cannons. In the L 55 cannon
barrel, a larger share of the energy resulting from a round being fired is
converted into greater velocity.
From the above, it emerges that existing
MBTs worldwide that are to remain in service right up to or beyond 2040 will:
A) Retain their 1,500hp diesel
engines/gas turbines.
B) Increase the barrel-diameter of cannons from 120mm and 125mm to 152mm. While
Rheinmetall has to date worked on developing both 130mm and 140mm smoothbore
cannons, the US Army too has worked on a 140mm smoothbore cannon gun (developing
about 22 mega Joules of energy, versus 11 mega Joules of a 120mm smoothbore
cannon). Russia, on the other hand, is expected to replace the Armata’s existing
2A82 125mm cannon with the 2A83 152mm cannon. The 2A83 latter has a muzzle
velocity of 1,980 metres/second, only dropping to 1,900 metres/second at 2km. In addition, Russia is expected to increase the power output of the A85-3AX diesel engine from 1,500hp to 2,000hp.
C) Not increase
the barrel-calibre, but will increase the barrels’ chamber-pressure.
D) Incorporate turret-mounted bustles containing
not only the entire ammunition stowage section, but also the autoloader (the
T-14 Armata being the sole exception).
E)
Henceforth use the space earlier used in the hull for ammunition stowage for accommodating
the ever-increasing quantum of mission-specific vectronics like various
radar-based and optronic situational awareness sensors, hard-kill active
protection systems, and battlefield management systems (BMS).
F) Use unitary and heavier APFSDS
rounds, thanks to the turret-mounted ammunition stowage section and autoloader.
Additionally, existing medium battle
tanks like the T-72M1 and T-90S that are earmarked for deep upgrades can in the
near future be equipped with diesel-engines rated at 1,350hp as well as with
new-build turrets containing ammunition stowage section and autoloader, while
the removal of their hull-mounted autoloader carousels can henceforth be used
for housing mission-specific vectronics.
So, what impact will all these have on
India’s MBT projects like the Arjun Mk.2 and the Tank EX technology
demonstrator?
As far as the former goes, contrary
to widespread speculation, the Indian Army (IA) has not forsaken or given up on
the Arjun MBT. Instead, for the past five years, the IA’s Directorate General
of Mechanised Warfare has been overseeing a collective developmental effort
involving the DRDO, and the MoD-owned defence public-sector undertakings and
private-sector OEMs that will in the near future result in a fully-loaded 62-tonne
MBT armed with a 120mm smoothbore cannon of slightly larger calibre, while
being powered by a 1,500hp powerpack
that uses the Cummins QST-30 diesel engine. Cummins has already conducted
integration and mobility trials of the QST-30 on a pre-production Arjun Mk.1
MBT owned by the CVRDE.
This followed the total failure by the DRDO to develop
the indigenous ‘Bharat Powerpack’ after it failed from 2007 till 2012 to elicit
any industrial interest from both global and Indian engine manufacturers for
the co-development effort. Adoption of the QST-30 engine will give the 62-tonne
Arjun Mk.2 a power-to-weight ratio of 25hp/tonne.
In contrast, the 118 68.6-tonne Arjun Mk.1As are each powered by a
1,400hp MTU-838KA 501 diesel engine that give a power-to-weight ratio of
18hp/tonne. The 58.5-tonne Arjun Mk.1 MBTs (124 in service), each powered by a
1,400hp MTU-838KA 501 diesel engine, have a power-to-weight ratio of 23.6hp/tonne.
Under the supervision and guidance
of the DRDO’s Avadi-based Combat Vehicles Research & Development
Establishment (CVRDE), and with the help of the MoD’s Directorate General of
Quality Assurance (DGQA) and the IA’s Corps of Electronics & Mechanical
Engineers (EME), a number of key decisions have been taken to achieve a weight
reduction of 8 tonnes in the existing design of the 68-tonne Arjun Mk.1A MBTs,
118 of which are now in delivery. For starters, the baseline hull of the definitive
Arjun Mk.2 will no longer be built with imported low-carbon, nickel-chromium-molybdenum
rolled homogeneous armour (RHA) steel, but with lighter high-nitrogen steel
(HNS) whose production technology has been mastered by the DRDO’s
Hyderabad-based Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and has
been transferred to Jindal Stainless Steel Ltd (Hisar). HNS will also be
used by TATA Motors Ltd for producing the 83 Kestrel 8 x 8 armoured personnel
carriers already on order.
HNS is produced in a four-step process: primary
melting of the steel can carried out in either induction furnace or electric
arc furnace by using appropriate raw materials; secondary melting can be
carryout in by nitrogen gas-purging in to the metal; under ladle refining,
ferro-nitrates are added to molten metal for obtaining final nitrogen content in
the alloy if it is required and hot-rolling is carried out in a single heat,
without reheating. Minimum percentage of reduction should not be less than 75%
of the slab thickness. To be placed in strategic locations in both the hull and
turret will be the DRDO-developed ‘Kanchan’ ceramics-based composite laminate
armour tiles as well as indigenously-built explosive reactive armour (ERA)
tiles developed by HEMRL on the front and sides of the hull and turret sections.
To ensure optimal weight
budgeting during the production engineering stage, the CVRDE has
contracted Dynamatic Technologies Ltd, which specialises in complex,
five-axis robotic machining, as well as in converting two-dimension paper
blueprints into three-dimensional computer model that are more precise, and
have tighter tolerances. Digitising the drawings creates a baseline
configuration for greater accuracy. This in turn streamlines manufacturing,
since conventional manufacturing based on two-dimensional paper blueprints
tend to leave tiny gaps between the different components of an assembly that
were filled with shims, leading to increased weight. But by digitising
blueprints, those tiny gaps can be entirely eliminated during the manufacturing
process. Under another weight-reduction exercise, the CVRDE has contracted the
Alicon Group for building all-aluminium road-wheels and ventilators for not
only the Arjun Mk.2, but also for the IA’s existing T-72M family of medium battle tanks. They will replace the
all-steel road-wheels built by Sundaram Industries for the Arjun Mk.1A.
Similarly, TATA Power SED has been contracted for producing all-electric turret
stabilisation/traverse systems (ELEGANT), in place of the existing
electro-hydraulic system.
In addition, the Pune-based HEMRL, in association with CVRDE and DMRL, has developed the add-on ERA Mk.2
panels since 2011, While HEMRL has developed the reactive elements, DMRL
carried out development of armour materials for the panels, and CVRDE finalised
the layout and fitment of panels on both T-72Ms and Arjun Mk.2s. User-trials of
ERA Mk.2 were carried out in four phases from November 2015 till January 2016. During
these trials, ERA Mk.2 was evaluated against 84mm HEAT, 125mm HEAT, Milan-2T tandem
shaped-charge warhead and AMK-339 APFSDS rounds.
ERA Mk.2 has an integral-type configuration on the hull glacis, in
which the panels have been welded to the MBTs’ surfaces with a provision for
positioning of the reactive elements, using a window. This type of arrangement
has significantly reduced the time for uparming the MBTs. The size of panels is
larger than ERA Mk.I (fitted on T-72CIAs) and the reactive elements inside the
panel are separated by metallic barriers to avoid sympathetic detonation. The
design has minimised blind zones (distance between the reactive elements) and
the larger size of the panels results in longer interaction with inbound projectiles.
With improved explosive properties and armour materials, the performance of ERA
Mk.2 against shaped-charge warheads and KE projectiles has been significantly
enhanced. The panels on the turret front have been mounted at an angle to get
the desired angle-of-attack for optimum performance. The turret-top panels are
designed to take care of top-attack submunitions. Though the size of panels is
different on different locations, the size of reactive elements is the same in
all the panels.
As for ammunition
improvements, it is imperative for the CVRDE to re-design and re-engineer the
Arjun Mk.1A’s turret in order to accommodate the slightly larger calibre 120mm
smoothbore cannon, as well as host a turret-bustle housing ALL kinds of 120mm
rounds like APFSDS projectiles equipped with longer and thicker kinetic energy
penetrators, penetration-cum-blast (PCB) rounds and thermobaric (TB) rounds. To
this end, the best option is to import proven autoloaders and turret-bustles
from either Nexter Systems or Mitsubishi. And the additional internal volume
obtained (by transferring the ammunition stowage are from the hull to the
turret-bustle) will leave enough room for housing additional vectronics,
especially elements of an active protection system (for which the Iron Fist
from ELBIT Systems, Trophy from RAFAEL and LEDS-150 from SaabTech/TATA
Aerospace & Defence are on offer) and BMS suite.
Presently, there are 71 Armoured
Regiments of the IA that are equipped with 2,418 T-72s (comprising 754 Ob’yekt 172M-E4 T-72Ms and
1,664 Ob’yekt 172M-E6 T-72M-1982s), close to 800 Ob'yekt 188S T-90S and 124
Arjun Mk.1s. The 37-tonne T-72Ms (Ob’yekt 172M-E4) are each powered by a V-46-6
780hp diesel engine that offer a power-to-weight ratio of 20hp/tonne. The 41.5-tonne T-72M-1982 (Ob’yekt
172M-E6) are each powered by a 840hp V-84MS diesel engine, has a
power-to-weight ratio of 21hp/tonne. The upgraded T-72Ms—43.5-tonne T-72 Combat
Improved Ajeya—have a power-to-weight ratio of 17.80hp/tonne. The 46-tonne
T-90S (Ob’yekt 188S) is powered by a 1,000hp V-92S2 diesel engine that delivers
a power-to-weight ratio of 21.5hp/tonne. The 47-tonne Tank EX, when powered by
a 1,000hp V-92S2 diesel engine, has a power-to-weight ratio of 20.5hp/tonne.
The Pakistan Army’s 47-tonne Al Khalid
MBT is powered by a 1,200hp 6TD-2 diesel engine that delivers a power-to-weight
ratio is 25hp/tonne. The 46-tonne Ob'yekt 478BE
T-80UD MBTs, each powered by a 1,000hp 6TD-1 diesel engine, has a
power-to-weight ratio is 21.7hp/tonme.
The 42.7-tonne Al Zarrar, powered by a 730hp diesel engine, has a power-to-weight
ratio is 17.1hp/tonne. The 41.5-tonne Type 85IIAP comes powered by a 730hp
diesel engine that offers a power-to-weight ratio is 17.8hp/tonne. The
36.7-tonne Type 69IIAP, powered by a 580hp diesel engine, has a power-to-weight
ratio is 15.8hp/tonne.
The PLA Army’s 42.8-tonne Type 96A MBTs
are each powered by a 800hp engine that deliver a power-to-weight ratio of 18.7hp/tonne,
while the 52-tonne Type 96Bs are each claimed to be powered by a 1,300hp engine that deliver a
power-to-weight ratio of 25hp/tonne.
The Indian Army plans to upgrade 1,000
T-72s (each costing Rs.9 crore) with the following:
A) Installation of V92S2 engine at
a per-unit cost of Rs.3.5 crore.
B) Fitment of ERA Mk.2 ERA tiles on the
hull and turret of each upgraded T-72.
C) Thermal Imaging Fire Control Systems
(TIFCS) imported from Israel’s ELBIT Systems at a per-unit cost of Rs.2 crore.
D) Panoramic thermal imaging sights
each costing Rs.0.8 crore to provide tank commanders with night vision, plus a
thermal imaging driver’s night-sight.
E) An APU costing Rs.0.20 crore to
generate power for the on-board electrical systems.
Similarly, the first 310 Ob’yekt 188S T-90S
MBTs are up for a mid-life upgrade as well, with the principal fitments being a
new-generation active protection system and an uprated powerpack for which the
A85-3AX-diesel engine capable of producing up to 1,500hp (although it is
presently dowrated at 1,350hp) is likely to be ordered from Russia’s
Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant, located about 350km south of Nizhny Tagil. This in
turn will result in the T-90S’ power-to-weight ratio being hiked to 24hp/tonne.
In my view, however, the proposals drawn
up for the deep upgrades of the Ob’yekt 172M-E4 T-72Ms,
Ob’yekt 172M-E6 T-72M-1982s and 800 Ob'yekt 188S T-90S are flawed (with regard
to the retention of existing turrets, 125mm smoothbore cannons fed by
hull-mounted autoloading carousels, and hull-mounted ammo stowage compartments)
and lack the application of common-sense. Instead, the optimum alternative that
will also create several business opportunities for India’s military-industrial
complex must involve the following:
A)
Standardising the powerpacks of all T-series medium battle tanks by installing
the 1,350hp A85-3AX-diesel engine (which in future can be upgraded to 1,500hp)
that will increase the power-to-weight ratio of such MBTs closer to 25hp/tonne.
B) Integrating the turret of the
definitive Arjun Mk.2 MBT (containing the 120mm smoothbore cannon, autoloader
and the turret-bustle containing ammunition reloads).
Adoption of these two critical options
will result in greatly improved mobility, survivability and firepower
parameters, with the latter assuming greater importance than ever, since only
Russia and China to date have claimed that their two-piece 125mm APFSDS rounds
can attain a muzzle velocity of 1,700 metres/second. Neither Israel Military
Industries nor India’s MoD-owned OFB have to date succeeded in developing
APFSDS rounds that travel at speeds greater than 1,660 metres/second. A unitary
120mm APFSDS round, on the other hand, holds out the promise of not only
achieving speeds of 1,700 metres/second, but also containing longer and thicker
KE penetrator with far greater penetrating power.
In addition, the turret housing the 120mm smoothbore cannon can also
accommodate a 130mm smoothbore cannon in future—this applying to all members of
the IA’s T-series and Arjun family of MBTs. Furthermore, doing away with
hull-mounted autoloading carousels and hull-mounted ammo stowage compartments
on the T-series MBTs will offer the internal volume required for housing
additional vectronics LRUs of the active porotection system and BMS.
And most importantly, doing
away with the existing turrets of the T-series MBTs (by adopting the definitive
Arjun Mk.2’s re-engineered turret) will also permanently do away with the IA’s nightmare
scenario of blue-on-blue engagements, since the MBT designs of both China and
Pakistan are derived from the T-series MBTs and will therefore be
indistinguishable from those of the IA’s T-series MBTs when viewed by either a
daylight TV camera or a thermal imager at nighttime. That the IA’s nightmare
scenario is an undeniable fact-of-life is borne out by the IA’s requirement for
a MMW identification friend-or-foe vectronics suite, which continues to be
developed by the DRDO’s DEAL laboratory.
(Concluded)
Dear Prasun ji,
ReplyDeleteLast week has been very demoralising. Fact that Pal backed terrorists could hit shujaat and Aurangzeb at will. Bsf got four its 4 brave killed but neither we could retaliate nor put any other cost on Pakistan. Biased report UN HRC on Kashmir, seyschells rebuff and audacity of Maldives signal that noting is working in India's favour. Regards
Dear Sir
ReplyDeleteIs any company or country trying to fit a BIGGER Cannon on MBT
There was some speculation about A 140 mm main gun on Russian tank
We should negotiate for Armata TOT
Any progress on Arjun smooth bore gun
A true soldier, a brave father and a proud Indian. He should have his vengeance on his son's cowardly murderers and the country should bring him his Eidi i.e. PoK with the Indian tricolour flying proudly over it before the next Ramzan.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thestatesman.com/india/aurangzebs-father-wants-tricolour-to-fly-over-pak-occupied-kashmir-1502649408.html
Talk about the Emperor fiddling while Rome burnt. While our dear PM prances about in his garden, our soldiers give up their lives in the Kashmir blaze thanks to the pussyfooting by the confused authorities . Pappu is on the mark for once with this being bizarre, all very very bizarre.
A PM who is always on the move around the world, where is the time for him to pay attention to what is happening in his own country?
Which also means that the unfortunate UNHCR report condemning India's record on human rights in Kashmir is a buck that stops at the PM's desk since it is our omnipotent PM who is handling foreign affairs rather than the MEA and FM. Another phrase comes to mind 'The Theatre of the Absurd:
Sorry for the rant Prashna, This has been piling up all through the Ramzan
If we have so much money to throw around and can afford duplication of expensive assets such as LAH/LCHs, Special Augusta Westland VIP Helicopters, Utility Helicopters, 1 or 2 only of AEW Netra type aircraft, just 2+2 HDW submarines less than the paid for Bofors howitzers, why the hell can we not give the Light Mounted soft recoil howitzers 155/39 Caliber to the BSF in large numbers to try out on the Porkistani faggots.
Just a bloody waste of a country is what we have become.
In recent times, the country seems to take pride in the fact that practically every day we have more martyrs than the other side. I don't know. I seem to be a bit confused. I always thought that when the other side has more bodies, it is better for our country. May be things are changing and I am unable to keep with it!
In that case Sir, Old man General George S. Patton made the most incisive remark about war and two-edged sword of patriotism cloaked in grim humor:No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
Battles and Wars are won by making the enemy bleed and our Army operates on the motto that 'The more you sweat in peace the less you bleed in War'. The Porkis understand the first premise too well and make us bleed by a thousand cuts. When the political directive comes, the defence forces shall assuredly make more martyrs of them.
But when will we wake up or will the loss of kith and kin shame us to action? The Kashmiri already have had enough of the Porki prefidy.
Sirji one stupid qas why Russian not develop stealth bomber or fighter Jet like b2 f117 f22 or f35 is Russian always gen. Behind west or us?
ReplyDeleteWill India liberate Gilgit-Baltistan from Pakistan ?
ReplyDeleteLibrate? It's a part of India reclaim would be more appropriate.
DeletePrasun,
ReplyDeleteCould India tie up with Russia or FrancoGerman for the FMBT? Also can the rheinmettal 130 mm gun be used on arjun mk2 as apart of mid life upgrade?
- What India do to show that low life UN human rights Head his place. Nikki Haley blasting the UN comes to my mind..
- High time OIC is shown its place .. http://idrw.org/arab-media-and-its-silent-war-against-india-on-kashmir/ .. is an interesting read..
Overall India needs to be a lot more aggressive and assertive globally even if it treads a few toes.. especially against the middle east.. time they pay for their sins aka world wide terrorism
In your revered opinion which MBT is going to be better. The Leopard+ LeClerc or the Armata?
ReplyDeletehi sir, wassup these days?
ReplyDeletewell according to on paper data of all these tanks Armata seems to be clear winner of all though on ground results may vary.
1) logically & scientifically which auto loader system is better & safe out of these 2 described in the thread?
2) why IA rejected Aghranit APS ?
3) What is Crew in capsule system used on Armata? How it improves safety over others? (IF it do so...)
@JAI SHANKAR
ReplyDeleteAap kahin Subrahmanyam Jaishankar toh nhi hai?
To PAWAN & KAUSTAV: Both you sound awefully crestfallen & depressive. Now let’s look at the bigger picture. Histopry teaches us all that when any state fails to impose its writ of law, the rebels become emboldened & morphe in to irreconsilables. This is what had happened after Rubaiya Saeed was kidnapped & hostages were taken inside the Hazratbal Mosque & India failed to deal with them decisively on her own terms. It was only after this that the Hindu Pandits were hounded out of the Kashmir Valley & armed militancy grew by leaps & bounds. Thje armed uprising was suppressed only after the emergence of the Ikhwaan, i.e. the Valley’s natives who had had enough & they proved decisive in turning the tide. Similarly now, the time has already come when Kashmir’s local communities are once again rising against the irreconcilables led by the APHC & the end is now closer than ever. The following videoclips prove it:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWfcFMCci2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwzWuXl5Edo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rHC6g22Uzg
The ordinary Kashmiris are now more than eager to return to their normal lives:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXABMT9bD7U&t=87s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQOUFwK9ArQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHR7OWpXXDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7OQK9LHvgY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2TYmoqVeBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdKB5fMz_Q
Sikhs Fleeing From Peshawar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsjHQiOol6E
Now let’s look across the Loc, where the PA’s COAS recently made yet another trip to shore-up flagging morale:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfuT12bu00
In addition, at least 5 PA soldiers have been losing their lives every week ever since the PA began fencing the Durand Line.
But I agree that several ‘intellectuals’ from Lutyens’ Delhi are still longing for the good old days of the previous decades that were marked by living in a state of denial. This one, for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoEgH8nwtIQ&t=4s
Such ‘intellectuals have either been living in a world of ‘make-believe’, or have not yet read about the Kayani-01, Kayani-02 & Kayani-03 proposals that have been detailed in the book DIRECTORATE S by Steve Coll.
To ARUN: Have uploaded more data & images above WRT your query & the balance of the narrative will be uploaded later tonight WRT the future of the Arjun MBT.
ReplyDeleteTo KAUSTAV: Rest assured that the BSF does not require any kind of medium-howitzers. The IA is waiting for the 100 Hanwha Techwin/L & T K-9 Vajra 155mm/52-cal SPHs to be delivered. So far only 14 have been. Once all have been delivered, then expect the full-scale fireworks to begin all along the WB & LoC. Meanwhile, these (replacements for the Instalaza C-90 LAW) have already arrived:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRjGWyKQnsk
To JASSS GILL: Because Russia’s does have the kind of money that’s reqd to develop such platforms.
To JAI SHANKAR: It is not a matter of if, but when. And why so? Just read the book DIRECTORATE S by Steve Coll for the answer.
To JUST CURIOUS, RAJESH MISHRA & ASHISH GAUTAM: All those questions will be answered in the concluding part of the narrative that will detail the options WRT the future status of Arjun, plus the T-72M1 & T-90S upgrades. Meanwhile, this is the future APC of the IDF-Army:
Eitan 8 x 8 APC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE5AxdN9nOo
-The IA is waiting for the 100 Hanwha Techwin/L & T K-9 Vajra 155mm/52-cal SPHs to be delivered. So far only 14 have been. Once all have been delivered, then expect the full-scale fireworks to begin all along the WB & LoC - this effectively postponed to somewhere 2020(ish) timeline.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/JampK-gets-10-of-Central-funds-with-only-1-of-population/article14506264.ece
ReplyDeletethese type of funds if given to other under developed state would have resulted in faster human development.
where are these fund really going....
Eitan for destruction of the shaitan pakistan? I will approve it.
ReplyDeleteBJP leaves the alliance with PDP, and Mehbooba mufti resigns the same day not even trying coalition with others.
ReplyDelete1. Is somethings being planned or this is usual drama for 2019 elections?
2. what will be the consequences of this move?
3. will j&k be divided into 3 regions?
4. Or as you said is it the plan for reclaiming the POK back?
thank you in advance.
Prasun ,
ReplyDeletehttp://idrw.org/israel-grows-barak-8-missile-family-and-why-india-might-ignore-it/ .. your comments pls.. You had recently mentioned about IN having bought additional barak 1 missiles. Is this version having something additional as previous reports had suggested that IN was looking to replace them .. are the new Barak 1 what is now Barak MRAD using a single-pulse engine giving a range of up to 35km? if, yes it would make sense about India cancelling the joint venture with france o Maitri missile if not, then is there some other plan/alternative?
Dissolution of the hotchpotch Kashmiri government is the second step towards the liberation of POK inclusive of Gilgit & Baltistan. Is it that?
ReplyDeleteok sir. What's next in J&K now during period of governor rule? Army ka Tandav or nothing special? or anything out of the box is coming?
ReplyDeletePrasunda
ReplyDeleteNot depressed by any means. I am pissed off on Pakistan and the J&K Govt. The collapse of the PDP government is the first bit of good news and the anger of Kashmiris in general as well as their disenchantment with the Hurriyat and appeasers of terrorists has been evident for some time.The steps to be taken are quite clear, only if the will is there. The Defense Forces are waiting for that direction.
To ANKIT SINGH & ASHISH GAUTAM: This is what is going to happen next:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/the-strategy-of-moral-high-ground-in-jammu-and-kashmir/
Hi Prasun,
ReplyDeleteGreat commentary by lt. gen. PG Kamath. Does Modi govt have gumption to do all this? And will China / Pakistan not create obstacles to it?
And what's with chinese diplomat suggestion for trilateral India china Pakistan meet. What's the actual story behind this idea and who are this jhollawala indians that suggested it to him.
On FRCV/ light tank...
Some days ago few sketchs of perceived drdo designed light tank with unmanned turret made to Twitter. How true are those sketches and will AJAX be selected for FRCV platform?
On fighter jets...
Will we still go for f16 blk70?
Your prediction on new indian built fighter being not iterative version of lca mk1 but a new design has come true. What will be the timeline perceived now, though it's already a little delayed? Will it have cannards or levcons? Is the design frozen?
Some are still hopeful that uttam will be fitted for this new MWF aircraft. How realistic is this?
Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri
Sir I don't know much about Constitutional & legal procedures, plz tell me (1) is it possible to revoke article 370, section 35A during governor rule??? If yes then how if not then why??
ReplyDelete2) Do u predict it's revoking by modi led govt in near or far future?(post 2019)
why is india not fencing the nepal border? whats stopping india to do it? nepalis can have free movement like US- CANADA border but that does not mean they go unchecked. free movement means visa free movement right? why is India so blind in many aspects like this?
ReplyDeleteTo DASHU: Not necessarily. Hanwha Techwin & L & T have a work-culture & productivity-levels different from that of OFB.
ReplyDeleteTo RAJESH MISHRA: Have outlined above the principal trends in MBT upgradation, which should answer some of your questions. As for J & K, the regional imbalance due to which Jammu & ladakh were adversely affected will henceforth be corrected. After all, how many times has one seen any CM of J & K pay official visits to Ladakh?
To Srinivasa Nanduri Ramanujam: 1) WRT J & K, that is the only option now left on the table. None of the political parties want to clear the political cesspool, the PDP's divided top leadership has proven that it is incapable of imposing the writ of law within J & K & instead forever wants to engage in appeasement politics (by rearing snakes in their backyard). To me, therefore, this is a textbook case of transactional politics that was being played by the BJP & PDP thus far. It also illustrates, as I hjave always stated, that party ideologies have no role to play in powergames & realpolitik. True 'Raaj Dharma' can be practised from a moral high-ground only when political parties are devoid of ideological leanings & pretences. 2) The suggestion of trilateral dialogue did not come from any diplomat, but from a private academic institution. All that the PRC's Ambassador said was that this was one of the many options worthy of being looked at. 3) What India needs are medium tanks, which are already there in the form of T-72M1 & T-90S. And for instance in Ladakh, whose high altitude ensures that sufficient ambient light is available throughout the year at nighttime, the MBTs located there do not even need thermal imagers, since the sufficient ambient light increases by two-fold the ranges of existing image intensifiers. 4) LCA-AF Mk.2 can be cleared for production by late 2024 if the roadmap I had earlier outlined is adhered to. And for this to happen, any AESA-MMR designed to go on-board has to be available NOW, & not in the near future.
To RAD: Excellent video on what the Cockpit-NG architecture has to offer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-4i9pC4VWc
And explanations of the EMBT concept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUplKeEVyJI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pFR17lmDPI
Prasunda,
ReplyDeleteIf a certain investment has been made in the development of NETRA UAVs, is it feasible that the other white elephant of the aeronautical etablishment, the SARAS can be drafted into the role of the Brazilian Embraer Aircraft. Originally the figure thrown around was that we needed around 24 more AEW aircraft of that category. Or is it that, neither, the NETRA AEW system nor the Saras are successful adaptations.
Hi Prasun
ReplyDeleteI came across couple of youtube links related to kinetic weapons “Rods from gods”. How real are these?
Anupam
Hi Prasun,
ReplyDeleteCan you please tell what kind of systems have Indian companies displayed at Eurosatory 2018. And are some countries interested in those systems.
1.What is happening regarding india-seychelles military base agreement .
ReplyDeleteIs is lost ?
Hi Prasun,
ReplyDelete1. Not sure why the national media is not reporting on this attack as much they report about similar attacks in Kashmir. ULFA & NSCN (K) has attacked & killed 4 Assam Rifle jawans in Nagaland
https://twitter.com/News18Northeast/status/1008586008256864256
Arunodoy Asom who is the commander of ULFA has already said that no mainland Indians/outsiders living in Asam will be spared. Already attacks on Indians/outsiders/non-tribals have re started in several parts of North East like Shillong.
So it seems to me (an average onlooker from Maharashtra) militancy is making a major comeback in North east after a lull of few years. Please provide your observation.
2. More R & AW officers defecting to the West. Govt of India again caught on backfoot. CIA , MI5 do not officers escaping to India. Else they too would have admitted it.
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/investigation/4201-three-raw-officers-defect-west#.WygREW6pd4E.twitter
Thank You
Dear Prasun,
ReplyDelete"Meanwhile, these (replacements for the Instalaza C-90 LAW) have already arrived:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRjGWyKQnsk"
Are you sure Spike SR has been bought by India???
Last I heard the deal for Spike missile was cancelled!!!
Can you please share the details.
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/glug-glug-glug-india-interest-unsinkable-aircraft-carriers
ReplyDeleteand they wonder why they aren't taken seriously. it's like any asian from anywhere looms over them in their mind as their former colonial masters from west asia. pakistani style imagination - they have major major issues that need therapy. and this goes for large parts of this ethnic group wherever they are located. keeping in mind what you said about them prashun bhai, but a dangerous duality exists and it would be wise to keep an eye out for it as it will get far crazier as reality becomes difficult to bear for many of these people.
sorry for the off-topic diversion.
hi prasun
ReplyDeletegreat video on large screen displays. But do they need net centric and fusion tech to really exploit the display ? ho w are we gong about in the lca mk2
what i dont understand is that it is beyond doubt that the most protected tanks n the world ie leopard of Germany and Abrams of US have been knocked out for want of active protective system .then why on earth is india the least concerned about it . After all there was a big hullabaloo about the raphael trophy and the swedish stuff and then nothing???
i would rather have 90 APS protected tanks rather than 100 regular tanks without them???
why this ostrich behavior??
in my last post about the indian aesa mounted on lca without hack flying , you mentioned that there were world class techies who could do that , i assume that was a dig rather than the truth??
reports suggest that the lca mk2 will be radical design in the medium class like the mirage 2000 what is the truth??
http://www.atimes.com/india-should-consider-sub-conventional-warfare-against-pakistan/
ReplyDelete"India also lacks an “aggressive strategic culture” needed to plan and implement systematic and sustained efforts in the field of psy-wars, cyber-wars, information warfare, sabotage, civil unrest and political disruptions." Is it true?
Tushar
Thanks Prasun for your replies.
ReplyDeleteI understand ORF under sudheendra Kulkarni must be the think thank that proposed this trilateral. But don't they understand how China has been screwing India, pardon my language.
China is trying with great urgency to intervene in Indo Pakistan issues.
It's really confusing to see all this. On one hand we are loosing our neighborhood and on the other hand we have overbearing china pushing us in a direction of their choice, hyphenating us with Pakistan. What Happened in seychelles and maldives should be worrying our MEA as well.
Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri
how is spike SR rocket launcher difft from Carl Gustaf?
ReplyDeleteTo KAUSTAV: That’s not possible simply because the SARAS Duet’s design was IMPORTED WHOLESCALE from Russia’s Myaschischev OKB. In other words, NAL did not design the aircraft & therefore cannot up-scale or down-scale the original design. The Netra AEW & CS uses the Embraer EMB-145 airframe, which is a narrow-bodied design that in turn inhibits its flight endurance. A widebodies airframe offers more internal volume for hosting replacement mission crew-members.
ReplyDeleteTo ANUPAM: Don’t worry, for the powers-that-be who reside in the ‘heavens above’ will never allow the nuclear weaponisation of space, especially involving kinetic weapons armed with nuclear warheads.
To ADITYA KAMBLE: Here’s the list of exhibitors:
http://www.eurosatory.com/wp-content/uploads/Eurosatory-2018_Exhibitors-List_2.03.2018.pdf
Indian companies that took part in the expo comprised:
ASHOKA MANUFACTURING LIMITED
HYDERABAD PRECISION MFG. CO. PVT. LTD.
JEET & JEET GLASS AND CHEM P LTD
MKU
RUNFLAT TIRE SYSTEMS
SAFESURE RUN FLAT SYSTEMS
To MOHAN: No, it is not. It can always be re-worded & approved.
To MANOJ G: It was already reported, especially the North East-based TV channels. Both ULFA & NDFB groups are practically dead. These attacks were staged by Myanmar-based NSCN-K. These are once-a-year events & are not sensational at all. 2) If the concerned news-reporter has been unable to get the names of those who have defected, then you can rest assured that this news-report is FAKE NEWS.
To VED: You’re getting confused between Spike-SR & Spike-MR. It was the latter that was cancelled.
To BHOUTIK: That concerned ‘Goraa’ (Caucasian) is not only out-of-date, but is also not a domain expert in such areas. Fixed sites like islands (natural or reclaimed) are sitting ducks for not only ballistic missiles, but also cruise missiles. Hence, those five reclaimed islets of China in the South China Sea will get vapourised within 40 minutes in case the US decides to attack them. An aircraft carrier, on the other hand, can cover vast distances within hours & unless the enemy has a huge fleet of ocean surveillance satellites, the entire carrier battle group can remain untraceable. Therefore, analyzing the Indian naval warfare scenarios through an Aussie kaleidoscope is totally futile & nonsensical. As for what’s happening in A & N Command, here’s everything from the horse’s mouth:
http://forceindia.net/interview/commander-chief-andaman-nicobar-command-vice-admiral-bimal-verma-avsm-adc/
About IAC-2, all the answers are provided b y the laws of physics, i.e. since it will be nuclear-powered, India first has to acquire the expertise reqd for developing new-generation pressurised water reactors with high energy density. And that’s only possible after India begins fielding the six projected SSNs. So, if the first SSN surfaces by 2028, then it means construction of a nuclear-powered IAC won’t commence before 2028. So, if the IAC-2 is reqd, then it will have to be a gas turbine-powered & slightly larger version of the IAC-1.
To RAD: Of course, in order to fully exploit the Cockopit-NG to its fullest extent, the LCA-AF Mk.2 will have to incorporate tactical data-links capable of communicating with both AEW & CS p0latforms as well as manned/unmanned ISTR platforms. Those T-80Us or Abrams & Leopard-2s that were knocked out over urban terrain were not equipped for engaging targets in urbanised areas. Hence they always got ambushed. But if one were to field those very MBTs equipped for urban warfighting, then they will definitely excel. As for LCA-AF Mk.2, since the fuselage will be stratehced by 1 metre, then by consequence the wingspan & wingarea too will have to be increased, which will result in a larger airframe.
ReplyDeleteAnd here’s the latest nonsense from the ‘desi bandalbaaz’:
https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/solar-industries-india-partners-eurenco-for-major-artillery-tender-118061900905_1.html
And this is what he is talking about:
http://www.eurenco.com/content/combustile-items/defence-security/modular-artillery-charges/
But the facts are otherwise. For instance, BMCS modules are already being produced by SMPP as I had disclosed in my DEFEXPO 2018 show report:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fiHFwmkHa_4/WtJ_sHzIeFI/AAAAAAAAOSo/n-pAnpWDSyYBv0dVHSkokPxB3JHjsTk4gCLcBGAs/s1600/SMPP-produced%2BBMCS%2Bfor%2BOFB%2BNalanda-2.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TLobCJQEu9A/WtJ_p3PAWiI/AAAAAAAAOSk/B9SzfONdM8s41G7NO61JyF8CO_uHkdGJgCLcBGAs/s1600/SMPP-produced%2BBMCS%2Bfor%2BOFB%2BNalanda-1.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W-urKDiL66k/T3mfyQrdsYI/AAAAAAAABFg/SOi0tQnUptU/s1600/HERML-developed+BMCS+being+licence-produced+by+private+sector.JPG
These SMPP-produced BMCS modules were developed by DENEL of South Africa & their production-technology was transferred to OFB Nalanda, which in turn turned to HEMRL for deciphering the chemical compound compositions of such modules. HEMRL did so & then shared it with OFB Nalanda, which in turn shared it with SMPP. Below are the HEMRL-developed BMCS modules:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-28LkM-KuK3o/T3mfsLYFg3I/AAAAAAAABFY/PRyTYLK5QMs/s1600/HERML-developed+BMCS.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oqU__BIUWXU/UvkfiborZhI/AAAAAAAAGoE/r17DaS46TKE/s1600/HEMRL-developed+BMCS+Modules.jpg
So now, OFB Nalanda should be the country’s second producer of BMVS modules after SMPP, & not Solar Industries. I*n fact, it remains a mustery till this day why the MoD inked a deal with EURENCO in 2016 for licence-producing 850,000 BMCS rounds when SMPP has been producing such modules since 2015. Looks like it’s time to question that Parikkar fella about this EURENCO order.
Lastly, since 35 solid-propellant bossters have been imported since 2004 per annum from Russia for BrahMos-1, the total no of BrahMos-1s produced so far amounts to 630.
To TUSHAR: Yes, it’s true that India lacks an aggressive strategic culture. But that does not mean that the answer to Pakistan’s proxy wars ought to be sub-conventional warfare.
ReplyDeleteTo Srinivasa Nanduri Ramanujam: You can rest assured that there’s no dearth of bleeding hearts who want India to bend & crawl not only vis-Ã -vis China but also Pakistan. Whjy so? Either they have blinkered vision or they choose not to read the writing on the wall despite their eyes being open. With both Maldives & Nepal, India has the advantage of geography & therefore India has to play the long-con games with such countries until they run out of stamina & steam.
To ASHISH GAUTAM: With Carl Gustav the launcher has to be re-used & the rocket round has to be manually loaded, hence requiring 2 soldiers to operate it. In Spike-SR the launcher is disposable.expendable & requires only 1 person to operate & the rocket’s range is greater than that of the Carl Gustav rockets.
To PIERRE ZORIN: Nowadays when everyone's posting their fitness video advisories, I recknon I too might make my humble proposal, which is known as 'Orgasmic Meditation':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEyacEHDVzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKSoYmzfSsY
Prasun,
ReplyDeleteYou may like to check SMPP is making only the casing for BMCS and not the complete module including propellant and Igniter. These casing are being supplied to OF Nalanda.
Thanks for the reply.
ReplyDeleteBut why not a sub conventional war?
Tushar
To UNKNOWN: You are missing the main point, i.e. if all elements of BMCS are already being produced by OFB Nalanda & SMPP, then where's the need to set up a second BMCS production facility? If OFB Nalanda can produce 400,000 units of BMCS modules per annum, then can't it ramp up the production rate to 850,000 per annum? Here are some additional weblinks to substantiate my PoV:
ReplyDeletehttps://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/nagpur/OFB-again-invites-global-cos-to-set-up-BMCS-factory/articleshow/51607051.cms
https://newsclick.in/move-transfer-military-ammunition-technology-private-vendors-stirs-controversy
OFB Nalanda project sanctioned on 29.11.2001. Revised project completion date: 05.02.2009 Sanctioned Cost: Rs 2,160 crores. Original project completion date: November 2005 for producing 8 lakh BMCS a year. Revised project completion date: March 2019.
Dear Prasun,
ReplyDeleteBattle For al-Hudaydah Can Become Turning Point In Yemen War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8al_pzuxlPQ
This may be the reason for UAE control of Yemen’s Socotra island.
Yemen's Houtis are winning the war. Already Syrian War is not in their favour.
So KSA and UAE Need to show some victory in yemen war.
If they are able to capture al-Hudaydah port they can close all supply lines for Houtis.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Hello Prasun,
ReplyDeleteDRDO has laid out all their products that are to be made to a firm requirement and then forced through extensive trials till they meet requirements and are inducted, making it a firm base for developing new products. With the now increasing participation from the private sector, is the basis for their continued success now almost guaranteed ?
The key projects which have been taken up in the 12thFYP are: New generation antiradiation missile (NGARM), solid fuel ducted ramjet (SFDR) technology, quick reaction surface-to-air missile (QRSAM), man-portable anti-tank guided missile
(MPATGM), ASB-Glide, smart anti-airfield weapon (SAAW), Kautilya, Prahaar, Akash Mk-1S, Akash NG.
Entire list of the products can be found here
http://164.100.47.193/lsscommittee/Defence/16_Defence_43.pdf
Thanks, Manoj
Prasunda,
ReplyDelete1) If the A-4 was tested with 2 MIRVs, why is such a configuration not the standard one for A-4?
2) Is the A-5 Mk2 you referred to some threads ago identical to the A-5 with MIRVed payload, or is it a further development incorporating features of the SLBM?
3) Won't miniaturized warheads with moderate yield (about 100-200 kt) be required for MIRVs to be effective? Won't new tests be required to prove such warheads?
Kritavarma
To TUSHAR: Because two wrongs don't make a right. And that’s why Israel continues to use conventional military force against Hamas. Meanwhile, here’s an analysis of a biopic that illustrates India's lack of aggressive strategic culture:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4PTETjS9Vg
And here's the biopic, titled OMERTA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm7N4TYhjmY
I therefore pray earnestly pray that may all those Indian capitulators (A B Vajpayee, Brajesh Mishra & Jaswant Singh) forever rot in hell!!!
To MANOJ G: Whenever locally developed products & platforms are to be built in-country, then the best way ahead is always for DPSUs partnering with their private-sector counterparts as per a win-win business plan. Of course matters would have been much better had all the DPSUs been privatised 3 decades ago. It is like Air India, which was to be privatised early in the previous decade itself, but since that did not happen, the Indian taxpayer has so far been beset with losses worth US$7 billion.
To KRITAVARMA: 1) The possibilities are endless since technological advances play a critical role here. I(n my view, the A-4 will in future have 4 MIRVs, with each MIRV rated at 150kT yield. 2) Both ICBM & SLBM designs will be reqd to have significant percentage of commonality, primarily for the sake of cost-savings. But between the two the SLBM is reqd to be much more sophisticated due to its dense internal packagings so that such a missile may fit into a SSBN’s pressure-hull. 3) Of course. That’s exactly what China’s latest DF-41 ICBM has attempted to do with 10 MIRVs each rated at 150kT yield.
To SENTHIL KUMAR: The sheer mass & qualitative superiority of the KSA-UAE military combine is such that the Houtis will be routed pretty soon. And Socotra will be controlled by the UAE for the next few decades. That’s why I am the least bothered about the denial of naval aerial logistics facilities at Seychelles’ Assumption Island because I know for sure that the UAE in future will allow the IN access to Socotra. In fact, that was my very point of departure when I had first highlighted the significance of the UAE’s footprint in Socotra at a time (almost 2 months ago) when everyone else in India was clueless about it & were all busy shedding crocodile teardrops after learning about the denial of Assumption Island to India.
Prasunda,
ReplyDeleteApologies for repeating the following queries which you have responded to before, although for other clarity seekers :
1. Are STFE and Manik Turbofan engines the same and are they only intended for single use on cruise missiles or multiple re-use on UAVs?
2. I am sure you shall elaborate further. But the Tank Ex project a combination of the Arjun turret on THE chassis and bigger engines would have been great on the Ladakh and Tibetan plateau.
3.Although it does seem to me, LCHs operating and optimised for Hot and High operations with significant payload of ATGMs, rockets etc. would be better than Tanks and necessary to be integrated with the Mountain Strike Corps from Ladakh in J&K, HP, Uttarkhand, Sikkim to Tawang in AP?
4. Is it possible that the China challenge would end in a whimper due to collapse of the Chinese bubble economy, or is it mere propaganda by American vested interests?
ReplyDeletehi prasun
we all are given to understand that the GTRE is the sole developer and maker o f the manik turbo jet and other engines.Now news come in that brahmos aerospace fabricated the manik engine how??
how mature is the kaveri now, as safran seems to have okayed integration.??
what is the contribution so far as safran is concerned?
is manik a screw driver tech from some where or ingenious as claimed??
now baba kalyani says he is going to make turbines as well?? is it so easy without any basic skill manpower??
is the df-41 operational?
Dear Prasun,
ReplyDeleteCongrats for advanced prediction of Socotra Island issue.
Yes if al-Hudaydah port is captured , houtis lifeline is crushed and may fall. Same like Indian Navy closed the entire naval lifeline of LTTE, LTTE started declining & got defeated.
But completely defeating Houtis is not so easy because LTTE area is small compared to Yemen.
As per your answer, Socotra Island will be occupied by UAE for decades and Indian Navy can have access to Socotra Island for Naval Operation.
Naturally following questions arises in the above scenario.
Q1. Is UAE holding Socotra Island legal or illegal as per UN?
Q2. If UN Keep silence, so many countries start occupying other nations islands and claim ownership.
Q3. When UN declared UAE holding Socotra Island is Illegal, What is the Indian Government Position. Still Indian Navy go there or avoid going there.
Q4. What is the position of Russia in Socotra Island case.
So very soon there will be Breaking News that China occupying disputed "Spratly Islands" which will start the Regional war.
Thanks
S. Senthil Kumar
Prasun,
ReplyDelete1-Recent new about Kaveri engine reaching maturity by DRDO quoting Safran means to the program ? is it that the Safran inputs [blisk tech single crystal blade tech etc] have been incorporated? it also talks about aircraft integration for testing something similar to what was done earlier in russia? what is the story behind it. If the news is all true then this should be a feather in India's cap
2- Can an uprated Kaveri engine [@90kn] be used on tejas mk 1a & Rafales as a part of future engine replacement programs - this can make mk 1a carry more payload while rafale could possibly get supercruise feature & cud fly higher & faster
3- link shared by Manoj talks about a 1500 Hp engine for tanks... could you throw some light on it
4- another piece of news talks about manik engine also reaching maturity
...considering all of the above.. is India finally reaching a point where we will become self sufficient in engine tech ? Could you also do an article on the various engines being developed for usage across the forces..
5 - Would it possible to extend the MK 1A fuselage to 13.7 mts [ie develop it into what was originally MK2 spec - http://indiandefence.com/threads/lca-tejas-multirole-aircraft.93/page-134].. this could possible make it a better fit for exports ..in a similar mould to gripen C as the current one is seen as having short legs... I know it wud mean a change to wing design etc etc but can't the same philosophy which is currently applied just be extended to a larger airframe without changes to control laws etc eg the current wing design cud be used for a larger wing? also the control laws surely would have some flexibility incorporated into them..
Look forward to your views on the same
To RAD & KAUSTAV: STFE & MANIK & Laghu Shakti are all one & the same. That turbofan is re-usable, i.e. it can be used for several flights lasting out till 400 hours of operation & hence it is meant for powering scaled-down technology demonstrators of the Ghatak UCAVs being co-developed by HAL & GTRE. Turbofans for cruise missiles, on the other hand, have to be extremel.y cheap since they will be used only ONCE, & not multiple times. One just has to compare the cutaway drawings of those turbofans powering US & Russian subsonic cruise missiles with that of the Manik to find out the difference & consequently, conclude that the Manik isn’t meant for any cruise missile. And anyone claiming otherwise is clearly 100% ignorant about both the laws of physics & laws of economics. For Nirbhay, a locally-developed turbofan called SJE-350 with a thrust of 350Kgf will be used. And here’s the cutaway of the re-usable Manik:
ReplyDeletehttps://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kaLupc5o-24/WDCGNsrsTVI/AAAAAAAAMDc/MFN3Zhc51w8ulsHxWWn-uDxQ24areVRKgCLcB/s1600/GTRE%2527s%2BLaghu%2BShakti%2BManik%2Bturbofan.jpg
Meanwhile, the decks have been cleared for ordering the Lockheed Martin S-70B Seahawk NMRH:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-set-to-clear-2-billion-deal-for-us-anti-submarine-warfare-choppers/story-J4uFAwmQbtT2WN2wovGAaI.html
I had always stated that the S-70B will be a far better option than the MH-60R version of the Seahawk that was being proposed earlier.
To KAUSTAV: The LCH will not be able to operate with full weapons loads over the Depsang Plains, where armoured warfare assets are to be employed. Only the lighter LUHs of the type being developed by HAL will be able to operate.
To RAD: What SAFRAN has said is that the re-jigged Kaveri design, inclusive of the M88’s core, is a workable idea & the next step therefore is to develop a few prototypes for flight-tests. SAFRAN NEVER said that the Kaveri with the GTRE-developed core section is suitable for flight-tests on board a combat aircraft.
To S SENTHIL KUMAR: The UAE hasn't annexed Socotra Island. Instead, it is working with the local tribes that make up of the 66,000 population of Socotra for arriving at a mutually agreeable solution. This will take some time but it will eventually work out just fine. The UN can't give any verdict as yet because the UN-recognised Yemeni govt hasn't yet complained to the UNSC about the UAE's military presence in Socotra.
sir... impact on india's MBT projects.. etc
ReplyDeletekuch nai ho rha sir... Russia se he lenge next MBT... T14 obviously... but when dunno...
might me there is 1 possibility of changing in design of T14 which is having turrent with auto-loader & ammo storage rather then its present auto-loader DESIGN. Though that too seems not possible as it may affect other parameters of MBT too. & Ruskies won't redesign all that stuff for us to prevent further certification etc process.
& jha tak home grown design ki considered shayad 2050 tak kuch dekhne ko mil jae...
Rest u only will clarify in next update
Prasun sir,
ReplyDeleteI could not find blog related to s-70b.please share the blog relating to s-70b.
To ASHISH GAUTAM: Have uploaded additional infor & slides that answer your queries.
ReplyDeleteTo JUST_CURIOUS: 1) Have already clarified above that the Kaveri reaching maturity as defined by SAFRAN is not the same as what is being touted by the ‘desi’ press. SAFRAN has only cleared the hybrid design that uses the M88 core. Now the desiogn has to be converted into testable hardware, which will take 3 years. Without the SAFRAN-provided M88 engine core, there’s no Kaveri. 2) Uprated Kaveri will take at least 8 years of non-stop flight-tests before being declared airworthy. Will Tejas Mk.1A or LCA-AF Mk.2 will also have to wait that long to fly? 3) Check out the narrative & slides above. 4) Manik is meant for use by scaled-down technology demonstrators of the Ghatak UCAV. It is highly premature to claim that India has attained self-sufficiency in turbofan development—a feat even Japan & China has not yet attained. For example, HAL’s HTFE-25 & HTTF are still years away from being certified for use. 5) On a computer, yes. But to translate that into the real aircraft takes at least 3 years, followed by 5 years of the fabled IOC/FOC flight-tests. Do you reckon one should wait that long so that both Tejas Mk.1A & LCA-AF Mk.2 both roll out at the same time?
Prasun: Seems "missionaries" finally have found a perfect way to ease all the tensions in India with that proven method of stress relief eh? LOLLZZZ Wonder how long before a "true patriot" in India will write an article exposing funds raised from such esoteric sensation is chanelled to divide India!!!
ReplyDeleteBy the way at least this is more a non touch remote method achieving the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKSoYmzfSsY
You sure have fired an APFSD at the Scrutator - the guy is venting fire about you these days!
Sir, for how long we will bear the burden of separatists in Kashmir.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it possible to kill all of them(hurriyat leaders) in one go and then sanitise the valley in a week.
Violence will be there but we will get rid of the cancer.
For that we require a very bold leadership, I know that. But no other self respecting nation breeds and cultivates separatists for the sake of democracy.
Isn't it possible? What's your opinion.
Everyone saying UNHRC report on Kashmir has no value....but yet such report came out unexpectedly.
Who knows with the kind of Pakistani propaganda going around supported by china.... what may come next yr or next decade?
As far as capturing POK is concerned. ...may the army acquire such capability but no political leadership has the spine for such decision.
SIR,
ReplyDeleteLook at the story given in the link:
https://theprint.in/security/south-china-sea-to-the-himalayas-chinas-salami-slicing-now-reaches-arunachal/73316/
Is it true or fake news ?
You have said multiple times that chinease millitary presence along LAC is very small as compared to Indian presence.
Then how come china continue to move much deeper into Indian territory without resistance.
I think the present generation shall forget Kaveri. You too have indicated some such thing earlier.
ReplyDeleteSir the idea you gave about redesigning the turret, is there some traction in it from DRDO?
ReplyDeletehmm so on arjun some quality work is underway. good to know that. Some questions.
ReplyDelete1) What are the chances that a turret based auto-loader will be included in the updated tank??
2) why not a 1800hp engine which can give 29-30hp/tonne??
3) DRDO developing a new APS system or any imported item wii be used??
4) what is length of penetrator of DRDO made FSAPDS ammo?
5) Cummnins developed engine will have India made heat exchangers?
6) How about use of Carbon fiber based composites in tank at various places like crew console etc?
7) How much digital is the Internal control system gonna be? I mean there will be MFDs showing multiple camera input to crew or older periscope design?
8) Auto gears or manual??
hope such large no. of questions won't irritate u. I really love tanks.
Prasunda, sir
ReplyDeleteGrateful for the reply. Are the LCA Mark 1As to be equipped with Leading Edge Vector Controllers (LEVCONs) as as on the LCA Navy Mk1 prototype? Will the Mark2 also feature the same or have canards as aMedium Weight Fighter?
2. The Armored Fighting Vehicle updates are awesome. Is it the end of the Road for the TANK EX or is there a future for a T72 CIA tank with the features of the Arjun MK1A such as 1400 HP Cummins engine HSN steel ERA and APS etc.? A lighter faster tank on the mountain borders would be useful.
https://m.timesofindia.com/business/india-business/reciprocal-tariffs-a-wto-sanctioned-right-india-to-tell-us/amp_articleshow/64705294.cms
ReplyDeleteOne hand it was been published Modi has given befitting reply to trump by raising tariffs on other hand this news quite contradictory
What do u think sir? Are we giving in for USA pressure? If we get into facts India has more airbus civilian planes than Boeing ?
Ron
Terrific product from Rafael idome mobile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8fiHB9H28
ReplyDeleteand Hirtenberger product could be very well used on the Western Front in India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdNyZjbqhZQ
Prasunda,
ReplyDeletereports are saying the indo-israeli EMP bomb/missile is ready for production. any news on this?capabilities?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iu-a-irAiA
ReplyDeleteHi Prasun,
ReplyDeleteAfter recent president rule, many on social media are saying that article 370 should be scrapped and j&k should be trifurcated. Some said if that's done Pakistan will get excuse to integrate G&B into itself and so instead article 35 should be modified to let people who married non kashmiris can own land.
Don't you think this sort of commentary muddies the already troubled situation.
Why is central government not shutting this talk, is beyond me.
Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri
Prasun Da,
ReplyDelete1.From India's perspective doesn't it make more sense to procure more K-9 Vajra howitzers than any MBT like Arjun , T -90 etc ? Eventually K-9 will have to destroy enemy targets from long range before MBTs can be pressed in .
2. India already has P-8 anti sub aircraft & reports suggest more will be purchased , so why does the Navy need S-70B anti sub helos ?
Thanks & Regards,
VIKRAM
@Manoj
ReplyDeleteany dick measuring contest near by?
the strength now lies in economy and technology
To PIERRE ZORIN: LoLz! Well, I will fire not just APFSDS rounds, but also PCB & TB rounds (whose slides are shown above that of the Iron Fist APS) at all those who consistently refuse to abide by the laws of physics & who are afflicted with terminal stupidity! In fact, by the time you logged in your comment, I’m sure such creatures must been subjected to self-destructive vapourisation. Let them from now on rot in hell since they are certified liabilities on Earth.
ReplyDeleteTo HARSH & SRINIVASA NANDURI RAMANUJAM: For how long? For as long as the decision-makers are woolly-headed & have blinkered vision. And such decision-makers are personified by the state of prevailing discourse as revealed here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBN8V1rNnOU&t=26s
Except for the retired General, everyone else was talking bullshit.
What’s reqd to be done is exactly what’s reported below:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/radicalisation-at-funerals-of-militants-on-jammu-and-kashmir-security-force-s-radar/story-ixx0JI6BcTcHSOxsYo72xN.html
If Muslim-majority countries around the world are resorting to such measures in order to ensure the writ of state & rule of law, I can’t fathom why India should attempt to swim against the tide. The facts are for all to see: 1) Article 370 was only a temporary provision but unfortunately that quantum of that duration wasn;t articulated. It should have ended in 1965.2) Article 35A smacks of male chauvisism & is totally discredited. 3) There’s no available political solution because what the UPA-2-appointed interlocutors had proposed was unimplementable, i.e. one state of India can’t be given extra-special treatment at the cost of all other states. Hence the UPA-2 never implemented the suggestions of the interlocutors & those suggestions remain classified as SECRET because it will open a pandora’s box WRT Centre-State relations. Hence anyone who’s talking about a political solution from within India is bullshitting, period. 4) The unrests in J & K began in 2008 at around the same time of the global financial meltdown & the consequent drastic drop of human-resource imports by the GCC member-states. This, coupled with the inability of utterly inefficient INC/NC-ruled & BJP/PDP-ruled state govts to implement job-generating schemes caused widespread dissatisfaction & resentment. 5) The inability of successive central govts since 1990 to conduct short-duration conventional limited war against Pakistan, which had prevented India from capturing territory like Haji Pir Pass, especially when a golden opportunity arose in mid-1999. 6) As a result of such missed opportunities, India continues to be in defensive mode all along the LoC & WB, which in tyrn leads to regular cordon-n-search operations being undertaken regularly throughout the Kashmir Valley, which is highly demeaning & insulting for the local inhabitants, especially those who are law-abiding & peaceful. Due to all this, instead of hurting the enemy )Pakistan), India is hurting her own citizens. This kind of mindset needs to change ASAP.
To VARUN KUMAR: LoLz! Why are you getting carried away by bullshit being routinely churned out by worthless cretins? Is there any photograph proof of any of those China-made structures being militarised? Do you know that after the 1962 war both countries had agreed that they will keep a 20km-stretch of land on either side of the McMahon Line/LAC totally demilitarised because the McMahon Line was drawn only on a scale map & therefore its error probability was 20km on either side of the drawn line? The McMahon Linewas never drawn after undertaking any land surveys & hence no boundary pillars were ever placed along the Line even by the colonial Brits. This being the case, hopw then can one ever claim that so & so party has ingressed 5km or 10km within one another’s territory? And those structures seen on GoogleEarth are ADMINISTRATIVE structures, i.e. they house the district administration, post office, telephone exchange etc etc, & not the PLA’s military garrisons. I visit those areas at least thrice a year & thus know far far more about the reality than some arsehole trying to make nonsensical projections out of GoogleEarth imagery.
ReplyDeleteTo RAJESH MISHRA: Have uploaded the concluding part of the narrative of this thread, which shall answer all your questions regarding MBTs.
To LUDWIG: Let’s wait & see. Only time will tell. ASfter all, there’s a point beyond which the superiority of logical reasoning & common-sense cannot be questioned or opposed.
To ASHISH GAUTAM: 1) Let’s wait & see. Only time will tell. ASfter all, there’s a point beyond which the superiority of logical reasoning & common-sense cannot be questioned or opposed. 2) Already explained above. 3) Imported. DRDO cannot meet the developmental timelines. 4) Already given above in the slides. 5) Nope. It will come from Cummins. Only radiator & oil cooler will be Indian. 6) Those are Spall Liners & are already there. 7) Multiple cameras are reqd only for those MBTs engaged in urban warfighting. IA’s MBTs don’t engage in such warfighting. 8) Automatic.
To KAUSTAV: 1) No. MK.1A will have same airframe design as that of Mk.1. LCA-AF Mk.2’s wing-area will increase due to 1-metre fuselage stretch. Only after the initial few flight-tests will one know whether LEVCONs are reqd. LEVCON is always better than canard because the former gives uniform planform. 2) The answers are there in the concluding part of the narrative, which I’ve already uploaded.
To RON: Those are not worrisome matters at all, since now, after all the dramebaazi, tamaasha & nautanki since 2011 India has at last seen the writing on the wall & has decided to ink the outstanding agreements:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/key-defence-agreement-with-the-us-finally-within-reach-118062300050_1.html
This will finally enable India to receive real-time situational awareness inputs from the US-Japan ‘Fish Hook SOSUS network. And here’s all the info on this network:
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2016/04/defexpo-2016-show-report-2.html
But to claim (typical of the ‘desi bandalbaaz’) that India is being denied GPS-related due to non-signature of CISMOA is utter hogwash, since the Py-code with MIL-STD accuracy is made available only to NATO member-states. And since India now has her own IRNSS constellation of satellites, the NAVIC’s MIL-STD GPS locational coordinates is now available & India does not require such Py-standard coordinates from either Navstar or Glonass. Thjere is now only 1 oputstanding piece of hardware that is awaited: the NAVIC-specific GPS receiver & location loggers, for which 3 companies have been shortlisted as the OEMs.
To ARITRO DATA: I had already spelt it all out a long time ago WRT to such directed-energy weapons. It’s all available here under the ‘SAAW’ sub-title:
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2016/12/indias-cruise-missile-programme-updates.html
To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) Are you suggesting that tracked self-propelled howitzers are better substitutes for MBTs? 2) The IN always had a stated reqmt for 28 LRMR/ASW aircraft. S-70B Seahawks are meant for providing ASV & ASW cover to naval task forces/battle groups. How could a P-8I provide ASW cover to an IN battle group in the northern Arabian Guld close to Gwadar? Can the P-8I operate dunking sonars?
To MOHAN: Do browse through these:
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/s70b-seahawk/
https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mh60rseahawk/
In September 2008, the MoD had issued a RFP for “16 advanced multirole naval helicopters” to AgustaWestland, EADS and Sikorsky, with an option for eight more twin-engine, 12.5 tonne category helicopters. This RFP was formally cancelled in April 2017. On December 13, 2017 the MoD put forward a new $1.87 billion procurement plan for 24 off-the-shelf naval helicopters.
Interesting reads: http://www.gatewayhouse.in/china-targets-indias-ladakh/
ReplyDeletehttp://www.gatewayhouse.in/chinese-investments-in-indias-neighbourhood/
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-trump-and-three-other-us-presidents-protected-israels-worst-kept-secret-its-nuclear-arsenal
Airing Tomorrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Iv9HwntsM
And the economic strangulation of Maldives has begun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkL4rw5Eol0
This will be followed by travel advisories issued by Western countries to prevent the high-paying inflow of Caucasian tourists into Maldives. Maldives will of course try to buy commodities from China or Pakistan, albeit at much higher prices, which in turn will lead to soaring inflation & popul;ar unrest/discontent. Perhaps then a military option will come into play.
IA’s Combat Innovations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REF5z-KfORY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x1Za9VTESc
Hi Prasun,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your response.
And I really enjoyed the whole read on modern MBT concepts and Indian options. Hope someone in MOD is reading and sharing this details to the decision makers.
On a separate topic...
Why are Coast gaurd and HAL hell bent on H225m. Wouldn't it be good coast gaurd also go for s70b as well.
I remember reading that luh developed by HAL can do the job then why Navy asking for nluh competition.
Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri
Prasunda,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the conclusion of the post. You have sorted out matters logically. Hope the concerned Army DGs, CVRDE and agencies display the same robust common sense to give us the 1500hp engined Arjun Mk2 turret equipped, indigenously modified and improved T Series MBTs in addition to the Mk2/Mk1A Arjuns which will ensure better cost effectiveness, a bigger business boost to the MIC sector and an efficient Battle ready force unique to the IA.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteThe Mirage 2000N will be withdrawn from service in favour of the transition to the "all Rafale" of the Air Force's nuclear deterrent force during the summer of 2018.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/06/french-air-force-retires-mirage-2000n.html
Can we buy (free if possible) and upgrade it ?.
Regards
Prasun sir,
ReplyDeleteYour conclusion on upgrade to t- series to me is logical and boost to local industry But
If your best upgrade to t-series tank is mounting arjun mk2 turret on the hull, then why tank ex is rejected by army.
Regards
Prasun,
ReplyDeleteVery informative article this one...
-@hybrid kaveri engine... what power output, weight etc can be expected of it [tentative specs]? also is the work on it being done with an intention to productionize it sometime in mid 2020's or will it become a Tech demo wasting time efforts & money??
- How do u rate drdo ERA mk2 protection as compared to protection on T14/ merkava/leopard
- came across this article -
https://navaltoday.com/2017/12/01/australian-navy-retires-s-70b-2-as350ba-helicopters-from-active-service/
&
https://www.naval-technology.com/uncategorised/newsaustralia-requests-360m-sale-of-mh-60r-upgrade-programme-from-us-5916809/
.. which talks about Aussies retiring S 70B & upgradation of MH60R the US navy also flies the MH60R.. could you give a layman explanation on the diff between the 2 & why u suggeted S70B as more appropriate rotor for IN needs
PrasunDa,
ReplyDeleteI don't know, you are the expert. I believe before MBTs like T-90, Arjun can be sent in K-9 type howitzers will be used to bombard the area in order to take out enemy shoulder carried ATGMs, AFVs etc. Else MBTs will be a toast .
Thanks,
VIKRAM
o SRINIVASA NANDURI RAMANUJAM: For the ICGS the S-92 SuperHawk makes far better sense as it is also in USCG service. Furthermore, the TATA Group’s Hyderabad-based facility has been churning out S-92 fuselage sections for Sikorsky sinbce 2013. In addition, the S-92’s CH-148 Cyclone 12.5-tonne NMRH is the ideal option for equipping the IN’s Project 15/15A/15B DDGs. Single-engined LUH being developed by HAL can easily undertake flying training roles for the IA, IAF, IN & ICGS. In addition, HAL has already demonstrated folding main rotor-blades & folded tail rotor-section, which then qualifies the ALH Mk.4 for the NLUH role.
ReplyDeleteTo KAUSTAV & MOHAN: VMT. I can only hope that common-sense emerges as the final victor. Thje reason why Tank EX was rejected in the late 1990s was the then-unavailability of thermal imaging sights for the turret, plus the absence of 1,350hp diesel engines from Russia. Have also uploaded above, slides of the CVRDE's conception of the FMBT.
To JOHN: What for? It will be cost-prohibitive to upgrade them & that very money can instead be used for procuring additional Rafales.
To JUST_CURIOUS: Hybrid Kaveri will have to offer the same performance paramaters as those of the F414-GE-INS6. Now that the design audit has been concluded, the next step is to build about 4 prototypes in order to test them both on the ground as well as in airborne testbeds for gauging their TBOs & TTSLs. This process alone can take up to 6 years. ERA Mk.2 tiles are on par with the best that’s now available throughout the world. The RAM’s S-70B2s were procured in 1989 & have therefore been in service for 30 years & therefore are at the end of their service lives. MH-60R is the Seahawk variant in service with the US Navy. So whichever navy buys the MH-60R will also have to procure the same mission avionics, sensors & weapons as that used by the USN’s MH-60R. The S-70B2 on the other hand uses the Seahawk’s airframe & engines, but everything else can be different, depending on a customer’s preferences. Hence, in the IN’s case, the S-70B’s selection will enable it to specify its own preferred search radars, dunking sonars. MAD detectors, control consoles, FLIR turret, torpedoes & anti-ship cruise missiles. For instance, while MH-60R uses the THALES low-frequiency dunking sonar, the S-70 will be available with DS-100 HELRAS ultra-LF dunking sonar. Similarly, instead of Raytheon’s search radar, the IN can opt for Telephonics search radar & instead of the Penguin Mk.2 ASM, the IN can opt for the Kongsberg HSM or MBDA’s Marte Mk.2ER ASCM.
To VIKRAM GUHA: Field artillery (tube/rocket) fire-assaults are always preparatory in nature, i.e. they only cause battlefield attrition & have never been used for totally destroying all the deployed assets of the enemy. And therefore, when field artillery fire-assaults are launched, the hostile armoured & mechanised forces are always reqd to be on the move, thereby not presenting themselves as static targets that can be located & engaged by tube/rocket artillery. Similarly, ATGM launchers are mobile, being mounted on ICVs or 4 x 4 ATVs. Not all armies are like the Iraqi Army that under Saddam Hussein chose to stay put in dug-in positions. And that’s why for locating & destroying hostile on-the-move mechanised/armoured formations & mobile hunter-killer ATGM units, one requires MBTs, fire-support combat vehicles (FSCV) & ICVs, with RSH/aeroscout helicopters doing the job of target location & attack helicopters causing attrition losses, all of which result in a depleted enemy infantry/armour/field artillery strength on the battlefield that can be mopped up by advancing MBTs, FSCVs & ICVs. In other words, no one combat arm can cause decisive losses. Only a synchronized & well-orchestrated ballet-type offensive AirLand campaign involving artillery, infantry, armour & army combat aviation can cause the enemy to be defeated decisively & in detail.
Like all dictators, Saddam Hussein lacked military skills and yet assumed supreme command. He declined development of the Iraqi Air Force as he believed in the Army alone to vanquish all enemies! No wonder then that he made his tanks literally sit out the advancing coalition tanks and anti tank aircraft. In a strange way, Indian decision makers seem to adopt a very similar line of thinking. Instead of allowing defence experts to study the expected battlefield scenario then make suggestions and then implementing them, they seem to rely on their omniscience as it were and keep making the same errors. The results are not only financially devastating, but illogical and when there is a war these leaders then scurry to countries like Russia, Israel with a shopping trolley to fill up with emergency supplies at double the cost! It's like what Fire service personnel in the West often encounter- women in particular either have to run out stark naked OR waste valuable time trying to look for something to put on while the fire rages on. (Hope these "missionary women" don't preach such malpractices to the "sacred and morally pure Indians")
ReplyDeleteWithout firing a single bullet, China is achieving much more than a Bond villain or Western Capitalists and the trap is like that of a spider's web- dangerous but irresistible
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGl3HxEMJhI
PrasunDa, you must have noticed that several channels like Discovery for instance will broadcast programs related to Special Forces(SF) training of US, UK & of late even India. Obviously the entire training program is not shown & I suspect several portions are kept classified.
ReplyDeleteIn your experience what portion of the SF training programs are kept classified ?
Thank You
Hi Prasun,
ReplyDeleteI was so intrigued by your current post that I have read it all least two more times and it sounds so damn sensible to go this path of modernization instead of more costlier FRCV. However one question that remains is will russia allow us to put in a India developed turret on those tanks.
But truly a good choice if MOD can workout the modalities.
Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri
To SRINIVASA NANDURI RAMANUJAM: VMT. Another point that has gone unabsorbed or has been misunderstood is that the Arjun MBTs are the only one in the world for which thermobaric (TB) & penetration-cum-blast (PCB) rounds have been developed—this being done so that the MBTs can engage dug-in infantry fortifications & ATGM launchers located within steel-reinforced permanent defences in rural areas. So, an Arjun Mk.2 turret-bustle with autoloader will be able to house & fire APFSDS, TB & PCB rounds. Anti-helicopter rounds like CLGM are not at all reqd since Army Aviation’s RSHs/LUHs & Rudras will have Mistral ATAM air-to-air missiles for targetting hostile helicopters. So if the Arjun Mk.2’s turret is integrated with T-72/T-90S hulls, this will translate into a huge capacity advantage over warfighting terrain (along the LoC & WB) that is full of tall ‘Sarkanda’ grasslands & standing crops & where visibility is therefore limited no more than 700 metres even with thermal imaging sights. It is for this reason that ALL of the IA’s MBTs will be reqd to fire APFSDS. PCB & TB rounds, & not HEAT or HESH rounds as is now the case. And for manoeuvring over rugged terrain & farmlands while maintaining a high tempo of advance, appreciable power-to-weight ratios are essential. The only role of the IA’s MBTs should therefore be to engage ground-based targets, not airborne platforms. If this is done, then a typical armoured regiment of the IA destined for fighting along the Chhamb-Sialkot axis, for instance, will include about 24 MBTs each armed with 30 PCB/TB rounds for engaging hostile infantry units & 10 APFSDS rounds for self-defence, while another 24 MBTs will have to be equipped with 30 APFSDS rounds for engaging hostile armoured vehicles, plus 10 PCB.TB rounds for engaging hostile infantry fortifications & dug-outs.
ReplyDeleteTo SUJOY MAJUMDAR: That’s elementary. What’s keep a secret is what is not shown, i.e. the use of tactical /mini-UAVs & high-tech comms systems, like SATCOM radios.
And here’s the programme on the Pathankot AFS attack, which was aired last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt936OqoTyo
To KAUSTAV: VMT. 1) The Pak propaganda WRT Khalistaan is already backfiring as news continues to spread about the rising incidents of Pakistani Sikhs being persecuted & killed in Peshawar & elsewhere in KPK province. 2) Under this govt the North East has been accorded high priority in terms of operationalising railway links & trans-border highways that will ensure all-round connectivity with both Bangladesh & Myanmar. Only infrastructure along India’s northern borders remains abysmal, especially in Sikkim, the India-Nepal border, & borderline rural areas in Yttarakhand & Himachal Pradesh.
And here’s a very interesting programme on data analysis WRT J & K’s ground situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_aDWyEj_4Q
If I might ask - how does the Arjun Mk1 and Mk.1A/Mk.2 armour compare with that of say a Leopard 2A6 vs KE and HEAT rounds?
ReplyDeleteThanks
And here cometh yet another book written by a former Secretary of R & AW:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.amazon.in/dp/0670091502/ref=pe_3025041_185740121_TE_item
And full details on Nawaz Sharif's real-estate assets in the UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5878097/Former-prime-minister-Pakistan-sons-ploughed-millions-Londons-swankiest-addresses.html
Pakistan recently paid up US$800 million for this:
ReplyDeletehttps://propakistani.pk/2017/07/13/pakistan-may-pay-11-billion-reko-diq-gold-mine-case/
Next in line is this:
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1741150/1-pakistan-suffers-setback-karkey-case-stay-order-vacated/
And these:
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1712545/1-international-firm-seeking-volume-10-jit-asked-submit-details/
https://www.geo.tv/latest/200566-fatf-grey-list-review-of-pakistans-case-expected-today
To SBM: Which type of armour? Composite laminate (or RHA) or ERA? HEAT rounds are no longer used for tank-versus-tank engagements. APFSDS is the preferred choice. In terms of Kanchan Mk.1/Mk/2 armour-plating, it is comparable to those being used in all current-generation MBTs in service worldwide.
HI PRASUN
ReplyDeleteYou had preferred the turret of the arjun mk2 on the t 72 chassis , will the ruskies object to the t90 having it as it would mean the arjun fcs and protection is better than the t90?
why did the the army summarily dismiss the tank ex without testing? after all ?
what will be the biggest hurdle to integrate the arjun on the t 72 chassis? the all electric drive?
was the tank ex an all electric drive?
drdo seems to have tested the armour against milan , 84 mm, rockets. But they have not tested the efficacy against tow 2 and red arrow 8 missiles.Do you think arjun can take them on ??
what is your take on saudi military cadets training in NDA? they usually send them to pakistan i suppose?
the PCB/TB rounds are of Israeli origin??
what has Seychelles agreed to? running a mutual naval base rather than an indian one? I dont understand the shying away as previously agreed ? what race are these creole speaking people they look more indian?
if essential goods are blocked by india to Maldives ,sri Lanka will happily fill in and may be buy from india and sell it to the Maldives??
are we the first to use levcons ? the pakfa flew many years after the LCA?
why are they not looking into diverterless intake like the f-35 and jf-17 as you always said the intakes were badly designed.
will a new gov in Maldives have the power to rescind the agreements wit Chinese?
have they already gotten into the debt trap?
Airbus will be offering the HForce common weapons system for Japan's emerging AH-X contest. Rudra could be perfect fit. Such a pity.
ReplyDeleteDear Prasun,
ReplyDeleteTurkey election: Erdogan wins re-election as president
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44596072
Turkish Sultan is becoming democratically elected President (Dictator)
Will Modi camp try to do the same President system instead of Parliamentary Democracy system in India?
Please give your opinion.
Thanks
S. Senthil Kumar
Dear Sir
ReplyDeleteShould India take advantage of Pakistan Army getting bogged down in Election Duties
Some 3 and Half Lakh Men are required for Security duties
Or will it be seen as Unethical
Can Haji Pir be accomplished in the Rainy season
Prasunda,
ReplyDeleteKudos again. I had thought that HESH and HEAT rounds had been discontinued in Tank engagements as they were better for bunker busting or other light armoured vehicles and structures. Only fixed tank placements using old T55 Tanks were using them on the LoC.
Regarding your pics and description in this thread with the LeClerc French and German tanks showing protection for engines and other vulnerable areas of MBTs; have Indian designers catered for such baffles, armoured skirts and commonsensical protection or is it to be handled by the User Units' infamous 'Jugaad'
To RAD: There are no legal grounds for Russia objecting, since it does not tantamount to clining the T-72/T-90S designs or producing unlicenced clones. Instead, Russia will be happy since India will be able to order Russia-developed & built powerpacks for such MBTs. The IA had rejected the Tank EX almost 17 years ago for the reasons I had stated above: the then-unavailability of thermal imaging sights for the turret, plus the absence of 1,350hp diesel engines from Russia. Accepting military cadets from GCC member-states is a welcome move & this has been going on since the 1970s. PCV/TB rounds are 100% India-developed products. DRDO owns their IPRs. The Seychelles facility is for logistics provisioning & support, & was never meant to be a full-fledged base. If Sri Lanka were to buy commodities from India & sell them to Malfives, how much you reckon will be the final retail price? For the Maldivians it will be unaffordable. LEVCONs have been used decades earlier by others as well.
ReplyDeleteTo BHOUTIK: LoLz! The weapons package for the Rudra, LCH & even RSH/LUH is common too. Only difference is that Aurbus has fiven a name to this package for marketing purposes, while the DRDO-developed package has yet to acquire a name.
To S SENTHIL KUMAR: In India such tactics aimed at consolidation of central power won’t work. Meanwhile, looks like some folks are slowly waking up to analyse the UAE’s military activities in the Horn of Africa:
https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/india-uae-relations-little-sparta-of-the-gulf-5233174/
To RAHUL: Even in 1965 the Haji Pir Pass was captured during the rainy season.
To KAUSTAV: PCB/TB rounds have better performance parameters than HE/HESH rounds. Another round that needs to be developed is the APAM anti-personnel round. Slat armour skirts & ERA skirts for rearward protection have already been designed & developed for application on the IA’s MBT fleets.
The IA’s requirements of armoured/mechanised forces is 97 armoured regiments and 70 mechanised infantry battalions. This is based on: 34 armoured regiments and 34 mechanised battalions for the 17 armoured brigades with 2 armoured regiments and 2 mechanised infantry battalions (2 + 2) for the 17 Re-organised Plains Infantry Divisions (RAPID); 18 armoured regiments and 9 mechanised infantry battalions for the 9 armoured brigades (2 + 1) of the 3 armoured divisions; 27 armoured regiments and 9 mechanised infantry battalions for the 9 independent armoured brigades (3 + 1) of the Pivot Corps; 10 armoured regiments and 10 mechanised battalions for 5 armoured brigades (2 + 2) for Ladakh and North East high-altitude areas; 4 armoured regiments and 4 mechanised infantry battalions for 2 armoured brigades (2 + 2) for the amphibious assault role; and 4 armoured regiments and 4 mechanised infantry battalions for 2 armoured brigades (2 + 2) for the air-assault role.
ReplyDeleteThe IA presently has 64 armoured regiments and 50 mechanised infantry battalions and thus, is short of 33 armoured regiments and 20 mechanised infantry battalions. The armoured regiments comprise 45 tanks, having 3 tanks in the regimental HQ and 14 tanks each in the 3 squadrons, with 4 troops of 3 tanks each and 2 tanks in the squadron HQ. A mechanised infantry battalion is similarly organised except that each mechanised company has three platoons with 4 BMP-2s each. The IA ought to reduce the number of tanks in an armoured regiment to 31 with one tank in the regimental HQ and each squadron having 3 troops of 3 tanks each and one tank in the HQ. This model is followed by China’s PLA and was successfully followed by the Soviet/Russian Army until recently. The second-in-commands and the adjutant can be based on BMP-2 command ICVs. This would release 14 tanks per regiment, I.e. 896 tanks or equivalent of 29 armoured regiments, leaving the IA only 4 regiments short of the ideal requirement. Similarly each mechanised infantry battalion can be reduced by 14 BMP-2s, i.e. one per platoon and one from company HQ, and 2 from battalion HQ, thereby creating approximately 23 more mechanised infantry battalions.
Cont'd below
Alternatively, without changing the squadron/company organisations, the IA can opt for composite mechanised regiments with varying combination of armoured squadrons and mechanised infantry companies based on the operational role, i.e. 3 + 1, 2 + 1, 2 + 2, 1 + 2 or 1 + 3. The IA now has 64 armoured regiments and 50 mech infantry battalions each having 3 armoured squadrons and 3 mechanised companies. Thus, the IA can easily create 114 composite mechanised regiments meeting its entire requirement with resources to spare. Composition of composite mechanised brigades can also be varied as per requirements of the operational role. Amalgamation of existing armoured regiments and mechanised infantry battalions will ensure that no additional manpower is required for this restructuring. There is a void of recce units in mechanised formations. Ideally, the IA requires a composite mechanised recce squadron with each composite mechanised brigade and a composite recce regiment each with the 3 armoured divisions, I.e. approximately 50 composite recce squadrons. This is an inescapable requirement and would have to be met with restructuring and new raisings. The manpower requirements can be offset with the reduction of the infantry brigades in the RAPIDs. There is also a case for re-organising the 3 Strike Corps into 3 division-sized battle groups.
ReplyDeleteSir now that J&K is under governor rule what kind of plans, discussions & strategies are going on inside walls of south block regarding PoK
ReplyDeleteAny updates when hostilities are going to commence?
Ron
Sir,
ReplyDeleteThe total no. Of su-30mki contracted as of now is 272. Out of which 8 have already crashed. So if no further crashes occur till production end ...the final figure with air force will be 264.
The 8 crashed aircraft won't be replaced??
Dada:
ReplyDeleteVery good post...so FMBT definately has a very very good future.
1. Pls calrify dada during Pathankot attacks, were two last attackers locked in the building were able to get away or were they neturlized
2. Moreover IAF assets were not able to hit precisely on to the attackers
3. Is not India and particularly NSG short of Long range sniping weapons and Mini UAVs
4. Moreover should not we simply just burn these dead bodies than risking lives of our soldiers for searching. Is nt IA better equipped in handling booby trap scenarios than NSG
5. The mini robots also did not work well dada should not NSG get better equipment now.
6. How many NSG men and Gaurd Commondo men have participated in fooling this attack
7. What measures government has taken post Pathankot attack in securing our bases
8. Lastly Where does NSG stands among other elite special forces vis-a-vis training and equipment is concerned
9. What are high incendiary chemicals that the terrorists were carrying and do our forces use them as well
Have a great day ahead
Prasun ji, the first picture of FMBT you provided in the thread, this one:
ReplyDeletehttps://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Mt20V9C5_Q8/WzAqrHN04PI/AAAAAAAAPOU/O4dlR0yCrXUzcmNP7iZT3cGXgqYCOtrgQCLcBGAs/s1600/CVRDE%2527s%2BConceptual%2BFMBT-1.jpg
Is that ^^ an official render? I know that the second picture (below) is from official publication:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E6MdlYW8Jg4/WzAqsXWZB5I/AAAAAAAAPOY/rtMrY976w-w20M9HdNrB3x_rH1UCV5Z0ACLcBGAs/s1600/CVRDE%2527s%2BConceptual%2BFMBT-2.jpg
And what type/model of Infrared Counter-Measures system is to be implemented in this tank (or other future IA MBTs)?
VMT in advance!
1)CPEC may be the tipping point of the reversal of premature de-industrialisation
ReplyDeleteIn short it can be summarised that:
*CPEC’s industrialisation plans fills in the gap that has emerged over last four decades in the field of plan for Industrialisation of the country.
*Location of industrial units in SEZs will promote industries in Pakistan using local raw material which effectively means that value addition previously being undertaken outside Pakistan will be undertaken in Pakistan. This will naturally improve employment opportunities in Pakistan.
*It is a misperception that SEZs located under CPEC are limited to Chinese enterprises and entities. Pakistani businesses are equally entitled.
*It needs to be ensured that existing Pakistani industries located outside CPEC SEZs are provided level playing field in relation to CPEC SEZ units.
*CPEC industrial units, especially for consumer products, will provide an automatic solution relating to tariff issues and pricing issues for imports of such items from China.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1409733
What do you think Prasun Sir?
2)Kashmiri separatists call for Islamabad to launch diplomatic offensive
"The United Jihad Council (UJC), an alliance of over a dozen Kashmiri separatist groups, on Tuesday played down the recent imposition of governor’s rule in India-held Kashmir as a “non-issue,” noting that New Delhi had always run the occupied territory "through its stooges and puppet governments"."
https://www.dawn.com/news/1416236/kashmiri-separatists-call-for-islamabad-to-launch-diplomatic-offensive
Paki Stooges talking of "stooges" Prasun Sir!!! What should be done to these b***ds?
May be we can outsource these cretins to near by Chinese RE EDUCATION CAMPS or can ask them to build some in Valley as a part of ONE BELT ONE ROAD infrastructure of DRAGON EMPEROR?
Regards
Vir
To GESSLER: LoLz! That’s fanboy artwork derived from the CVRDE’s rendering of the design conception. But rest assured that the FMBT project has been succeeded by the FRCV project (another hair-brained scheme!). In fact, if folks at IA HQ are really interested in developing FRCVs, then they should begin with something less complex & practical, like developing a family of 8 x 8 armoured vehicles by using the Kestrel 8 x 8 as the base vehicle.
ReplyDeleteTo ENGDOC SOCIETY: Thje only FMBT that I can foresee is the definitive Arjun Mk.2, & not any fantasy-based 50-tonne vehicle powered by an elusive 1,500hp powerpack. 1) They were deep-fried by the Molotov Cocktails that the NSG had hurled inside the room. It’s all shown in that docu-drama. 2) IAF assets like Mi-35P were never developed for such purposes. 3) Why were Mi-35Ps or Dhruv ALHs used for aerial thermal imaging? Why could the Netra mini-UAV not be used? 4) If the bodies are burnt then how will the forensic evidence (like DNA) then emerge for the NIA to to produce a fool-proof prosecutioon case, which is reqd when sharing such evidence with the whole world? 5) Yes, but machines are not always fool-proof. 6) Thje attack wasn’t foiled at all. The mere fact that the attackers succeeded in sneaking inside the air base is proof that the air base’s perimeter security protocols totally failed. About 2 Battalions of SAG & SRG personnels were airlifted. 7) Nothing. No extra money has been allocated & the IAF was told to dig into its own internal financial resources for financing the procurement of various defensive systems. 8) As a counter-terror force, the NSGF ought to be kept busy throughout the year all over India. Instead, one can count on one’s fingers exactly how many times the NSG has been employed since it was raised in 1984. That’s exactly how counter-terror forces DON’T operate around the world. 9) Those were MIL-SPEC Phosphorous-based chemical compounds.
To HARSH: Under the umbrella agreement inked between India & Russia in the year 2000, the IAF is due to receive a total of 350 Su-30MKIs. Hence, follow-on orders will have to be placed fairly soon.
To RON: Imposition of Governor’s or President’s Rule over J & K has nothing to do with PoK-related operations. WRT PoK the decision was taken last year itself to regard PoK as India’s own territory whereby offensive military operations undertaken inside PoK will no more be regarded as operations conducted inside Pakistan-administered/-controlled territory, but will be regarded as operations conducted inside Indian territory that is under enemy occupation. Once this mindset change happens, everything else changes & one does not need to use sickening & outlandish terms like ‘cross-LoC surgical strikes’.
To VIR: More trouble for China & Pakistan:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Large-army-veteran-protests-in-China-pose-13026186.php#item-85307-tbla-4
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-06-26/iranian-forces-and-militants-killed-in-clash-near-pakistan-revolutionary-guards