"Regarding such mind-boggling aircraft manoeuvres, they were tried with much less manoeuvrable aircraft like the Mirage III and F-4D Phantoms as far back as the 1960s and early 1970s. You need to watch the HISTORY Channel series of DOGFIGHT programmes. "
I do watch History channel. FBW plays a major role in Su30 to enable it to do what it does... I dont think Mirage III and F-4D Phantoms had such flight control systems...and like you said they may have only TRIED. F-22 is only thing that can match the Su30.
The rest have TRIED were http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA8QXenJzgA&feature=player_embedded
To Anon@12.41PM: SpyDer should be operational before next March, since deliveries have already commenced. Barak-8 MR-SAM on Project 15A DDG should become operational by 2014.
To Anon@4.17PM: GMTI is already available on the Zhuk-M2E radar on board the MiG-29K and will also be on the MiG-29UPG. On the Sy-30MKI the NO-11M Bars also has this mode of operation. The UAE issue is not of a technical nature, but about the financial aspects. All combat aircraft equipped with AESA-MMRs will have GMTI capability. To my knowledge nobody from the UAE has formally stated that the Rafale is out of the competition. What has come out so far is only the usual baniya-type haggling about pricing, for which the Arabs are legendary.
To Indian: No.
To Austin: For starters, if one is to believe that whatever is contained in that webpage of HAL is true, then it looks like the FGFA will be just a Su-30-derived airframe having the wings of the T-50 PAK-FA. The MTOW figure is equally questionable at this stage as this is only a preliminary targeted estimate. Thrust vectoring specs are also suspect as they don’t indicate whether the FGFA will have two-axis TVC nozzles like that on the Su-30MKI or a MiG-29OVT-type TVC nozzles.
To Shree: Watch this: HISTORY CHANNEL: MiG Killers of Midway at 16.20 minutes.
To Austin: Have you read this?: ---------------------------------- Eurofighter GmbH also recently launched a campaign is aimed at challenging Lockheed Martin’s claims that the F-35 Lightning V/STOL MRCA enjoys a 6:1 exchange ratio over existing fourth-generation combat aircraft. In Eurofighter’s view, buying F-35s at the expense of fewer EF-2000s reduces an air force’s overall capability. Eurofighter GmbH respects the F-35 as a world-class MRCA for the air-to-ground mission, but not as a combat aircraft in the traditional role as an air-to-air machine, said Craig Penrice, an EF-2000 Typhoon pilot and marketing adviser. Lockheed Martin officials have claimed that the days of traditional dogfighting are over, while a promotional video released last year by Northrop Grumman claimed, for example, that manoeuvrability is irrelevant to a fifth-generation MRCA. The video showed the F-35 defeating its opponents not with dogfighting skill, but by firing air combat missiles agile enough to turn 180 degrees. Eurofighter GmbH, however, claims that the F-35 lacks all-aspect, very low observable stealth, and is vulnerable to detection and defeat by non-stealthy opponents. In an internal simulation series, Eurofighter GmbH has found that four EF-2000s supported by an AEW & C platform defeated 85% of attacks by eight F-35s carrying an internal load of two JDAM precision-guided munitions and two air-to-air missiles, Penrice said. According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter GmbH’s head of the future requirements capture, the F-35’s frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AEW & C platforms at a 25- to 30-degree angle to the F-35’s most likely approach path to a target.
Prasun : On FGFA we need to wait and watch atleast on their website they should put up something that does not look like ammature stuff.
On Eurofighter claims, I tend to agree I have seen that link before , an effective way to deal with stealth is to use fighter like MKI or Eurofighter in conjunction with AWACS , so that the stealth aircraft are denied the First Look Advantage.
Obviously its a world of claim and counter claim but JSF is going through difficult times , they found a hairline fracture on its composite skin.
Do you still maintain the opinion that the SAFs purchase of Iron Dome is driven by the fact that Indonesia might get ballistic or cruise missiles in the future, and not the 36 ASTROS operated by the MAF? Not sure if you're aware, but in the early 1990's, theTNI announced that it was very interested in getting Scuds.
Purely as a cost saving measure, do you think that there is a possibility that the RMAF will eventually end up with a follow on batch of MKMs rather than the Super Hornet or Typhoon?
'Japan is providing $5 billion in host-nation support' Clinton's stmnt last time she was in Asia
THIS IS HUUGE!!! This is immoral.How can the japanese do this when this money can be spen in Japan to better upgrade their defence capabilities by indegenous R&D?
Why are they Paying so much(Nuke umbrella?)
This is Extortion by the US.Hw come this is not protested?
'Japan is providing $5 billion in host-nation support' Clinton's stmnt last time she was in Asia
THIS IS HUUGE!!! This is immoral.How can the japanese do this when this money can be spen in Japan to better upgrade their defence capabilities by indegenous R&D?
Why are they Paying so much(Nuke umbrella?)
This is Extortion by the US.Hw come this is not protested?
There seems to be two versions of Spyder. SR And MR. What versions is India aquiring Will IAF or IA order more in follow-on order. 18 seems to inadequate for a country as large as India
Israel first offered Iron Dome and David Sling to India. Is there a requirement of such systems in indian armed forces ? If yes then are we going to purchase these two systems ?
Air Chief said the issue of LUH is resolved and the deal is back on track. When are we expecting the attack chopper and LUH deal to be signed ?
How many VSHORAD are we looking to acquire ? And which one is gonna win ? When is the deal likely to be signed ?
Sir, How many Su-30 MKI are currently inducted with IAF till date. On average how many planes are getting inducted per year. Who will manufacture the new Super Flankers HAL or IRKUT or Knaapo
Hey Mr Sengupta,begging your perdon for my ignorance,but can you please give some info about the possible numbers of total soldiers per Indian Army divisions?? Regard.
To Austin: If things carry on like this, what exactly will be HAL’s share-value even if it goes for a partial disinvestment? One shudders to think. Regarding counter-stealth technologies, one emerging area is bistatic airspace surveillance operations under which one radar transmits the beam and another one receives it. The Israelis are working on such a concept, under which one HALE UAV will be equipped with an AESA radar for transmitting, and another one for receiving the reflected returns. A third platform, this being a manned airborne battle management platform, will be overall in-charge of the tactical airspace/theatre of operations in which up to four HALE-UAVs could be employed for persistent counter-stealth airspace surveillance, with only the manned airborne battle management platform having to return back to its air base for refueling and crew-change after completing its 12-hour sortie. The bistatic concept is similar to that employed by navies when using ultra low-frequency sonars (hull-mounted panoramic or towed-array), which results in a doubling of the undersea ASW surveillance footprint.
To Faris: Yes, yes, yes. More than 80% of the Astros-2 MBRL inventory is presently deployed in East Malaysia, from where these weapons cannot even be dreamt for employment against Singapore. The TNI, like its Thai counterpart, is investing in heavy long-range MBRLs like the Chinese WS-1B, and is now seriously looking at offers of NLOS-BSMs from China’s ALIT, which offer more precision strike-power than the R-17E SCUDs. Based on my discussions with Notth Korea’s Changwon Trading Corp sometime in 2000 (when its reps went to MINDEF to offer SCUDs to Malaysia), it emerged that the Myanmarese are the only ASEAN-state to have made serious financial investments in acquiring such liquid-fuelled weapons, especially the Nodong-1. Regarding any follow-on Su-30MKMs, the RMAF always wanted to procure a follow-on six Su-30MKMs to gully equip one squadron. The figure of 18 new procurements is premature and ill-conceived.
To Anon@1.53AM: What is US$5 billion per annum for Japan? Even labeling it as peanuts will be an understatement. Both Japan and the US have a mutual security assistance treaty since the days of Ronald Reagan and Yasuhiro Nakasone under which the US provides its nuclear umbrella to Japan. It is not extortion, but acquiring a life-insurance policy.
To Anon@9.46AM: SpyDer-SR.
To Anon @8.32PM: On an average 12 Su-30MKIs are now being delivered by HAL per annum. Thus far, 50 + 90 or so Su-30MKIs have been delivered. All Super Su-30MKIs will be upgraded and delivered by HAL in cooperation with IRKUT Corp.
To SOUVIK: Anon@11.44PM has already answered that for you.
Prasun: Sometimes I feel HAL is just a Government Job Guarantee Agency and they have not gone beyond LiC Production mindset , unfortunately for HAL , it still has to depend on Government for all big and small decision so in a way its limited to what it can do but it can still do better.
Yes Bi-Static has been a promising area for LO detection not just for band specific stealth but even stealth with multi band capability , Israel has been the pioneers in AESA development and UAV so they would well exploit it for Bi-Static detection purpose. The idea looks good.
Even China is working on it they are using FM band for LO detection and Bi-Static purpose , one of the reason why their embassy was deliberately bombed in Kosovo is because they were using intel assets to spy on US stealth aircraft and gather as much as they can.
Russians too have Bi-Static Radar called Barrier-E though its not AESA but the concept is the same.
Another promising area for LO detection is Multi Band Fusion capability which is to sensor fuse data from X,L VHF and other band and provide a single picture of target or area of interest ,the LO object would behave differently for different wavelength and then you can if you have AESA focus on target of interest , for eg if L band detects a target thats not appear too well for X band then you can focus your beam on specific area of interest for greater resolution/accuracy.
One such system to be deployed soon is the 55Zh6ME system where three AESA system operating in X L and VHF or metric band are integrated in providing single picture , the Russian claim is effective in dealing with LO and Hypersonic targets at long ranges.
Check the link. http://www.almaz-antey.ru/about/press/news/789.html
In the extreme left is X band AESA ,in the Center a L Band AESA and on the right is VHF AESA a first of a kind. The data from all three are sensor fused to provide a single picture , being fully mobile system it provides tactical mobility.
If you could integrate your airborne asset to it and even Bi-static radars to the system all the more better.
Singapore is very advanced in terms of small arms and artillery...I wonder what stops us!! The men are wearing nice camos...Is there any company in India that designs modern camos for soldiers?? Our soldiers wear very old and cheap ones..
It is not extortion, but acquiring a life-insurance policy.
Could u be alittle more specific on the "life insurance policy"?
When China emerges as the main growth engine and the world recognizes this as in the recent EAS summit(even Obama after the China bashing had an unscheduled meeting eith the Chinese premier) whu\y is East Asia still clinging on to the "US protection" and as many analyst in the media have noted, why are they still invested in the anti-China axis(Why does India want to join this after having resisted it and given in to Chinese demands so long?) Why not a constructive and China pleasing stance from its neighbours?(Thats logical if they want to take advantage of itd growth)
From THINK TANK Dear Prasun why not BDL ties up with Antey Of Russia to make one of the best Air Defense System, like their S-400, a Brahmoss like Industrial tieup..? If 2 decades old Anti Tank Missile from Russia Worries Israel ( Which were used by Hizbollah against much Fanfare Merkava's & were destroyed) then surely Russia do have technologies of World Standard, which west media denies. Learn From Chinese & Build our own Military Industrial Complexes so that we can too sell weapons as they do. When U Will Publish Newer Arjun Pics? Think Tank
22 comments:
Sir, When SPYDER and BARAK-8 will be operational ? We ordered 18 SPYDER system. Is it operational or not ?
Dear Sir
Do any Combat aircraft in the world today have Ground Moving Target Indicator GMTI
I read that UAE Rafale talks have BROKEN down on this DEMAND of UAE
Does this UAE Rafale FIASCO benefit us NOW that India is the LAST HOPE for RAFALE
Excuse Me Sir! Do you have any information or status on Akash Mk2...
Prasun , HAL has officially released the specs and CG of FGFA , what do you make of it ?
http://hal-india.com/futureproducts/products.asp
"Regarding such mind-boggling aircraft manoeuvres, they were tried with much less manoeuvrable aircraft like the Mirage III and F-4D Phantoms as far back as the 1960s and early 1970s. You need to watch the HISTORY Channel series of DOGFIGHT programmes. "
I do watch History channel.
FBW plays a major role in Su30 to enable it to do what it does...
I dont think Mirage III and F-4D Phantoms had such flight control systems...and like you said they may have only TRIED.
F-22 is only thing that can match the Su30.
The rest have TRIED were
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA8QXenJzgA&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lVvfSQGqoc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3KxvpecKFU&feature=player_embedded
I could only find those...
To Anon@12.41PM: SpyDer should be operational before next March, since deliveries have already commenced. Barak-8 MR-SAM on Project 15A DDG should become operational by 2014.
To Anon@4.17PM: GMTI is already available on the Zhuk-M2E radar on board the MiG-29K and will also be on the MiG-29UPG. On the Sy-30MKI the NO-11M Bars also has this mode of operation. The UAE issue is not of a technical nature, but about the financial aspects. All combat aircraft equipped with AESA-MMRs will have GMTI capability. To my knowledge nobody from the UAE has formally stated that the Rafale is out of the competition. What has come out so far is only the usual baniya-type haggling about pricing, for which the Arabs are legendary.
To Indian: No.
To Austin: For starters, if one is to believe that whatever is contained in that webpage of HAL is true, then it looks like the FGFA will be just a Su-30-derived airframe having the wings of the T-50 PAK-FA. The MTOW figure is equally questionable at this stage as this is only a preliminary targeted estimate. Thrust vectoring specs are also suspect as they don’t indicate whether the FGFA will have two-axis TVC nozzles like that on the Su-30MKI or a MiG-29OVT-type TVC nozzles.
To Shree: Watch this: HISTORY CHANNEL: MiG Killers of Midway at 16.20 minutes.
To Austin: Have you read this?:
----------------------------------
Eurofighter GmbH also recently launched a campaign is aimed at challenging Lockheed Martin’s claims that the F-35 Lightning V/STOL MRCA enjoys a 6:1 exchange ratio over existing fourth-generation combat aircraft. In Eurofighter’s view, buying F-35s at the expense of fewer EF-2000s reduces an air force’s overall capability. Eurofighter GmbH respects the F-35 as a world-class MRCA for the air-to-ground mission, but not as a combat aircraft in the traditional role as an air-to-air machine, said Craig Penrice, an EF-2000 Typhoon pilot and marketing adviser. Lockheed Martin officials have claimed that the days of traditional dogfighting are over, while a promotional video released last year by Northrop Grumman claimed, for example, that manoeuvrability is irrelevant to a fifth-generation MRCA. The video showed the F-35 defeating its opponents not with dogfighting skill, but by firing air combat missiles agile enough to turn 180 degrees. Eurofighter GmbH, however, claims that the F-35 lacks all-aspect, very low observable stealth, and is vulnerable to detection and defeat by non-stealthy opponents. In an internal simulation series, Eurofighter GmbH has found that four EF-2000s supported by an AEW & C platform defeated 85% of attacks by eight F-35s carrying an internal load of two JDAM precision-guided munitions and two air-to-air missiles, Penrice said. According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter GmbH’s head of the future requirements capture, the F-35’s frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AEW & C platforms at a 25- to 30-degree angle to the F-35’s most likely approach path to a target.
Prasun : On FGFA we need to wait and watch atleast on their website they should put up something that does not look like ammature stuff.
On Eurofighter claims, I tend to agree I have seen that link before , an effective way to deal with stealth is to use fighter like MKI or Eurofighter in conjunction with AWACS , so that the stealth aircraft are denied the First Look Advantage.
Obviously its a world of claim and counter claim but JSF is going through difficult times , they found a hairline fracture on its composite skin.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/new-cracks-stop-vertical-landings-on-some-f-35bs-365059/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPYDER
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
---------------------
Regarding the scoring points between EFT and F-35, I think the angular logic of EFT may be justified.
Prasun,
Do you still maintain the opinion that the SAFs purchase of Iron Dome is driven by the fact that
Indonesia might get ballistic or cruise missiles in the future, and not the 36 ASTROS operated by the MAF? Not sure if you're aware, but in the early 1990's, theTNI announced that it was very interested in getting Scuds.
Purely as a cost saving measure, do you think that there is a possibility that the RMAF will eventually end up with a follow on batch of MKMs rather than the Super Hornet or Typhoon?
Hi Prasun,
'Japan is providing $5 billion in host-nation support' Clinton's stmnt last time she was in Asia
THIS IS HUUGE!!! This is immoral.How can the japanese do this when this money can be spen in Japan to better upgrade their defence capabilities by indegenous R&D?
Why are they Paying so much(Nuke umbrella?)
This is Extortion by the US.Hw come this is not protested?
Hi Prasun,
'Japan is providing $5 billion in host-nation support' Clinton's stmnt last time she was in Asia
THIS IS HUUGE!!! This is immoral.How can the japanese do this when this money can be spen in Japan to better upgrade their defence capabilities by indegenous R&D?
Why are they Paying so much(Nuke umbrella?)
This is Extortion by the US.Hw come this is not protested?
There seems to be two versions of Spyder. SR And MR. What versions is India aquiring
Will IAF or IA order more in follow-on order. 18 seems to inadequate for a country as large as India
Who are participating in IA's QRSAM requirement ?
Is IA also procuring Spyder SAM ?
Israel first offered Iron Dome and David Sling to India. Is there a requirement of such systems in indian armed forces ? If yes then are we going to purchase these two systems ?
Air Chief said the issue of LUH is resolved and the deal is back on track. When are we expecting the attack chopper and LUH deal to be signed ?
How many VSHORAD are we looking to acquire ? And which one is gonna win ? When is the deal likely to be signed ?
Sir, How many Su-30 MKI are currently inducted with IAF till date. On average how many planes are getting inducted per year. Who will manufacture the new Super Flankers HAL or IRKUT or Knaapo
Hey Mr Sengupta,begging your perdon for my ignorance,but can you please give some info about the possible numbers of total soldiers per Indian Army divisions??
Regard.
Souvik:- Between 15 to 20,000 Soldiers per division
To Austin: If things carry on like this, what exactly will be HAL’s share-value even if it goes for a partial disinvestment? One shudders to think. Regarding counter-stealth technologies, one emerging area is bistatic airspace surveillance operations under which one radar transmits the beam and another one receives it. The Israelis are working on such a concept, under which one HALE UAV will be equipped with an AESA radar for transmitting, and another one for receiving the reflected returns. A third platform, this being a manned airborne battle management platform, will be overall in-charge of the tactical airspace/theatre of operations in which up to four HALE-UAVs could be employed for persistent counter-stealth airspace surveillance, with only the manned airborne battle management platform having to return back to its air base for refueling and crew-change after completing its 12-hour sortie. The bistatic concept is similar to that employed by navies when using ultra low-frequency sonars (hull-mounted panoramic or towed-array), which results in a doubling of the undersea ASW surveillance footprint.
To Faris: Yes, yes, yes. More than 80% of the Astros-2 MBRL inventory is presently deployed in East Malaysia, from where these weapons cannot even be dreamt for employment against Singapore. The TNI, like its Thai counterpart, is investing in heavy long-range MBRLs like the Chinese WS-1B, and is now seriously looking at offers of NLOS-BSMs from China’s ALIT, which offer more precision strike-power than the R-17E SCUDs. Based on my discussions with Notth Korea’s Changwon Trading Corp sometime in 2000 (when its reps went to MINDEF to offer SCUDs to Malaysia), it emerged that the Myanmarese are the only ASEAN-state to have made serious financial investments in acquiring such liquid-fuelled weapons, especially the Nodong-1. Regarding any follow-on Su-30MKMs, the RMAF always wanted to procure a follow-on six Su-30MKMs to gully equip one squadron. The figure of 18 new procurements is premature and ill-conceived.
To Anon@1.53AM: What is US$5 billion per annum for Japan? Even labeling it as peanuts will be an understatement. Both Japan and the US have a mutual security assistance treaty since the days of Ronald Reagan and Yasuhiro Nakasone under which the US provides its nuclear umbrella to Japan. It is not extortion, but acquiring a life-insurance policy.
To Anon@9.46AM: SpyDer-SR.
To Anon @8.32PM: On an average 12 Su-30MKIs are now being delivered by HAL per annum. Thus far, 50 + 90 or so Su-30MKIs have been delivered. All Super Su-30MKIs will be upgraded and delivered by HAL in cooperation with IRKUT Corp.
To SOUVIK: Anon@11.44PM has already answered that for you.
Prasun: Sometimes I feel HAL is just a Government Job Guarantee Agency and they have not gone beyond LiC Production mindset , unfortunately for HAL , it still has to depend on Government for all big and small decision so in a way its limited to what it can do but it can still do better.
Yes Bi-Static has been a promising area for LO detection not just for band specific stealth but even stealth with multi band capability , Israel has been the pioneers in AESA development and UAV so they would well exploit it for Bi-Static detection purpose. The idea looks good.
Even China is working on it they are using FM band for LO detection and Bi-Static purpose , one of the reason why their embassy was deliberately bombed in Kosovo is because they were using intel assets to spy on US stealth aircraft and gather as much as they can.
Russians too have Bi-Static Radar called Barrier-E though its not AESA but the concept is the same.
Another promising area for LO detection is Multi Band Fusion capability which is to sensor fuse data from X,L VHF and other band and provide a single picture of target or area of interest ,the LO object would behave differently for different wavelength and then you can if you have AESA focus on target of interest , for eg if L band detects a target thats not appear too well for X band then you can focus your beam on specific area of interest for greater resolution/accuracy.
One such system to be deployed soon is the 55Zh6ME system where three AESA system operating in X L and VHF or metric band are integrated in providing single picture , the Russian claim is effective in dealing with LO and Hypersonic targets at long ranges.
Check the link.
http://www.almaz-antey.ru/about/press/news/789.html
In the extreme left is X band AESA ,in the Center a L Band AESA and on the right is VHF AESA a first of a kind. The data from all three are sensor fused to provide a single picture , being fully mobile system it provides tactical mobility.
If you could integrate your airborne asset to it and even Bi-static radars to the system all the more better.
Singapore is very advanced in terms of small arms and artillery...I wonder what stops us!! The men are wearing nice camos...Is there any company in India that designs modern camos for soldiers?? Our soldiers wear very old and cheap ones..
It is not extortion, but acquiring a life-insurance policy.
Could u be alittle more specific on the "life insurance policy"?
When China emerges as the main growth engine and the world recognizes this as in the recent EAS summit(even Obama after the China bashing had an unscheduled meeting eith the Chinese premier)
whu\y is East Asia still clinging on to the "US protection" and as many analyst in the media have noted, why are they still invested in the anti-China axis(Why does India want to join this after having resisted it and given in to Chinese demands so long?)
Why not a constructive and China pleasing stance from its neighbours?(Thats logical if they want to take advantage of itd growth)
From THINK TANK
Dear Prasun why not BDL ties up with Antey Of Russia to make one of the best Air Defense System, like their S-400, a Brahmoss like Industrial tieup..? If 2 decades old Anti Tank Missile from Russia Worries Israel ( Which were used by Hizbollah against much Fanfare Merkava's & were destroyed) then surely Russia do have technologies of World Standard, which west media denies. Learn From Chinese & Build our own Military Industrial Complexes so that we can too sell weapons as they do.
When U Will Publish Newer Arjun Pics?
Think Tank
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