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Tuesday, August 15, 2017

LCA-AF Mk.2 Can Still Become A Reality. Here's How

A revised roadmap dealing with the propulsion system for both the Tejas Mk.1A and the LCA-AF Mk.2 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) is slowly but gradually emerging, following the satisfactory conclusion of recently-held negotiations between India’s MoD-owned Defence R & D Organisation (DRDO) and France’s SAFRAN Group.
If and when it is implemented (it is still awaiting authorisation from the Govt of India), the planned 83 Tejas Mk.1As will use the GE-supplied F404-IN20 turbofans, and after these engines reach the end of their total technical service lives (TTSL), they will be replaced by a new 98kN-thrust (with afterburning) turbofan that will use the M88-2 engine’s core section supplied off-the-shelf by France’s SAFRAN, while up to 60% of the turbofan’s components will be derived from those already developed by the DRDO’s Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) for the Kaveri turbofan. All these modified components (including second-generation single-crystal turbine blades) will be co-developed with the help of military-technical mentoring by SAFRAN. So, for 83 Tejas Mk.1A MRCAs, the turbofans to be procured should comprise 83 F404-GE-IN20s, plus 83 of those turbofans that will be co-developed by GTRE and SAFRAN.
For the LCA-AF Mk.2 MRCA, the turbofan to be co-developed by GTRE and SAFRAN will, from the very outset, become the definitive propulsion system. However, the question of exactly how many LCA-AF Mk.2s need to be ordered has not yet been answered by the Indian Air Force (IAF).
This, in turn means that GTRE and SAFRAN will have until 2026 to come up with the definitive turbofan for the commencement of airworthiness-related flight-test regime for both the Tejas Mk.1A and the LCA-AF Mk.2’s weaponised prototypes. Initially, however, the LCA-AF Mk.2’s flying prototypes will be powered by F414-GE-INS6 turbofans.
As I had explained earlier, it all depends on how or whether at all SOUND COMMON SENSE can be or cannot be applied. Let me elaborate: the Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 platforms, even after re-engining, will be able to stay in service for only another 15 years. Since these aircraft are now used for tactical air interdiction and battlefield air-interdiction (since the deep-strike roles will be taken over by the Rafales and several Su-30MKIs, while tactical interdiction/defensive counter-air roles will eventually be taken over by up to 150 single-engined imported MRCA like the F-16 Block 70), there exists a market for fourth-generation battlefield air-interdiction/defensive counter-air  MRCAs—roughly 160 aircraft—required for replacing the Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 platforms. This is where the LCA-AF Mk.2 ought to come in, but the project will have to be INTELLIGENTLY managed, i.e. make the MoD-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) the prime contractor answerable to IAF HQ, while reducing the DRDO’s Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) to just a design services provider. HAL in turn should be empowered through sufficient managerial autonomy to appoint its own clusters of public-sector/private-sector vendors as sub-systems/components suppliers, so that HAL does only final-assembly and systems integration. Above all, HAL must be allowed to come up with a financial plan under which such an industrial consortium will be required to put up 80% of the LCA-AF Mk.2’s non-recurring developmental costs, this of course being offset by a guaranteed, irrevocable order for 160 LCA-AF Mk.2s. HAL in turn must be able to guarantee a fully functional/ certified, weaponised LCA-AF Mk.2 at best by 2028 (if developmental work commences in 2018). If this is done, then the IAF will not have to worry about incurring additional costs for force modernisation and it will then stop opposing the LCA-AF Mk.2’s service-induction. Similarly, the Indian Navy (IN) should be bold enough to use a variant of the LCA-AF Mk.2 as a shore-based maritime-strike platform. Meanwhile, the tandem-seater version of the Tejas Mk.1A can be made to serve as lead-in fighter-trainers (LIFT) for both the IAF and IN.
All this is definitely doable from both financial and military-industrial standpoints, but it will require enormous amounts of sound common-sense to be pooled from within the Union Ministry of Finance, MoD, and the IAF and IN HQs so that a comprehensive project management roadmap can be articulated and adhered to without any deviations.
Interestingly, the IAF has mandated that IF the fifth-generation AMCA is to be indigenously developed by ADA, then use must be made of F414-GE-INS6 turbofans for that portion of the flight-test regime that is dedicated to the optimisation of the medium-weight AMCA’s airframe (the Su-57 FGFA on the other hand is a heavyweight fifth-generation MRCA), flight-control logic and the digital fly-by-wire flight control system.
What Is Required For Design/Performance Optimisation Of LCA-AF Mk.2
For achieving the required angles-of-attack, instantaneous/sustained turn-rates and climb-rates (i.e. agility metrics), the LCA-AF Mk.2’s airframe will have to sport LEVCONs of the type already developed for the IN’s LCA (Navy) Mk.1 MRCA.
For all-passive target acquisition-cum-tracking beyond the range of the biological Mk.1 eyeball, an infra-red search-and-track sensor will have to be mounted aft of the nose-section and just ahead of the nose landing gear section, since this will get rid of the obstruction of field-of-view posed by the fixed aerial refuelling probe (supplied by UK-based Cobham) mounted in the MRCA’s starboard side. Two IRST sensor options ought to be explored for installation: either UK-based Selex ES’ Skyward, or the IRST-21 from Lockheed Martin.
The selected IRST sensor will have to be seamlessly integrated with the Elbit Systems-developed TARGO helmet-mounted display system (HMDS) so that it can present a synthesized image of the tracked target on the HMDS’ visor along with superimposed fire-control cueing data required for slaving the IIR sensor on-board the all-aspect RAFAEL-built Python-5 SRAAM when operating in both lock-on-before-launch and lock-on-after-launch modes.
For the on-board AESA-MMR, the modes of operation should include multi-target detection and concurrent tracking/fire-control (for mid-course guidance for the Astra-1 BVRAAM), terrain avoidance, weather search, traffic collision avoidance, moving ground target indication, Doppler beam-sharpening, and synthetic aperture ground mapping. Although the DRDO’s LRDE laboratory began developing the ‘Uttam’ AESAR-FCR since 2012, its full-scale model displayed at the Aero India 2017 expo in Bengaluru last February revealed that a lot more work is required in the area of weight reduction. In addition, unless an environment control system (ECS) is indigenously developed for meeting the AESAR-FCR’s co9oling requirements, additional developmental work will have to be undertaken to integrate the AESAR-FCR with an imported ECS.
This, in turn, will necessitate the acquisition by the DRDO’s LRDE and CABS laboratories of a turbofan-powered airborne testbed that, apart from hosting the prototype AESAR-FCR/ECS combination, will also have to accommodate all the data servers required for the real-time recording-cum-monitoring of all the performance parameters of the prototype AESAR-FCR/ECS combination. An alternative option—if available—would be to ship the prototype AESAR-FCR/ECS combination abroad to a country which is willing to offer the services on a commercial basis of a suitable airborne test laboratory.
The ADA-designed cockpit for the LCA-AF Mk.2 (which was unveilled in 2013) has already been deemed as ‘deficient’ by the IAF, which has since then been showing its preference for the Cockpit-NG suite that was originally developed by Israel’s Elbit Systems and can easily be provided by the HALBIT joint venture of Elbit Systems and HAL.
In fact, the IAF also prefers the same Cockpit-NG suite for the F-16 Block 70s that are on offer from Lockheed Martin and it needs to be noted that Elbit Systems had originally developed the Cockpit-NG suite for the global F-16 mid-life upgrade market, and now even Saab has selected the Cockpit-NG for its JAS-39 Gripen-Es.
For comprehensive self-protection, the LCA-AF Mk.2 will be required to internally accommodate a wide-band self-protection jammer, integrated digital radar warning receivers-cum-jamming transmitters, laser warning receivers and missile approach warning system (MAWS) sensors (similar to what Sweden’s SaabTech has developed and is now supplying for installation on-board the HAL-developed Rudra, LCH and LUH helicopters).
While the DRDO’s Bengaluru-based DARE laboratory has already developed the jammer as well as the integrated digital radar warning receivers-cum-jamming transmitters (that have already been installed on the upgraded Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 flying prototypes), the LEDS laser warning receiver will have to come from SaabTech, with the MAWS being the AAR-60V2 MILDS-F from Cassidian of Germany.
The LCA-AF Mk.2’s airframe will be required to internally host four integrated digital radar warning receivers-cum-jamming transmitters, two LEDS laser warning receivers (preferably on re-designed wingtips) and six MAWS sensors in a distributed-architecture layout in order to ensure all-aspect hemispheric coverage.
The LCA-AF Mk.2’s airframe will be required to internally host a new-generation jet-fuel starter, as well as an on-board oxygen generation system (OBOGS).
The DRDO-developed aircraft stores release and ejection mechanism (ASREM) will have to be incorporated into yet-to-be-developed dual ejector-racks and triple-ejector-racks similar to RAFAUT of France’s AT-730 triple ejector-rack (that contains three TG-480 ejectors) and AUF-2 dual ejector-rack.
Incorporation of an actuated cockpit canopy opening/shutting mechanism, along with a retractable aerial refuelling probe (also available from Cobham), should be desirable for incorporation as well.
It is only after incorporation of all the above-mentioned elements that a final call ought to be taken on the required quantum of fuselage stretch and increase in wing area of the LCA-AF Mk.2. It, therefore, may well be that the current estimate of a 1-metre fuselage stretch required for incorporation is premature and needs to be worked out again in finer detail in close consultations with the IAF and IN.
List Of Major Sub-Systems On Tejas Mk.1
Composites-Based Airframe Content
DRDO-Developed Components
Involved Private-Sector/Public-Sector Industrial Vendors
Critical Foreign Components On Tejas Mk.1
The image below depicts the airframe design of the LCA that was proposed to ADA by GE Aero Engines way back in 1987. Had this design been adopted by ADA then itself, several of the aerodynamic shortcomings witnessed later in the ADA-designed Tejas Mk.1 L-MRCA could have been eliminated at the very outset.
And this is what the IAF had in mind when it was decided in the 1970s to indigenously develop the LCA.
And finally, the F-16 Block 70 on offer to the IAF has the potential of being upgraded to the F-16U Falcon-21 configuration during its projected mid-life deep upgrade, which is explained below in graphic form.
The F-16U Falcon-21 had been designed by Lockheed Martin as far back as the early 1990s and it can accommodate several of the fifth-generation sensor-fused avionics that are presently on-board the F-35 Lightning JSF family of MRCAs.


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COLD said...

Sir ji, firstly a very happy Independance day to you and all of your many followers!

1) You are saying 150 single engine MRCAs WILL be imported? Why and can't we just order more LCA MK.1As instead? Surely ordering the F-16 isn't viable (it's very expensive and won't be ordered soon)?

2) Will the 150 imported single engine jets have a negative impact on the number of Rafales we order? How many Rafales do you think we are looking at long term now?

3) Why couldn't the Safran-GRTE Kaveri/M88 power the AMCA from the outset? What is the need for the F414 on the AMCA?

and what do you make of this:

Kaustav said...


Wish you a Happy Independence Day,

If pigs are to fly again, I am going to wish for a Stealth LCA Mk3?☺ to complete 15 squadrons of LMRCAs after your kite flying for 83Mk1A and 160 Mk2s in addition to the 40 IOC/FOC Mk1 Tejas Fighters. Jokes and dreams apart....

How does a BMD system differentiate between a missile that is coming in for a nuclear or conventional strike? By Type or Situational awareness? Thanks

Anonymous said...


Thanks for the article. It's like a continuation of the question asked by me in the previous thread. Couldn't understand the last part though :

"AMCA is to be indigenously developed by ADA, then use must be made of F414-GE-INS6 turbofans for that portion of the flight-test regime that is dedicated to the optimisation of the medium-weight AMCA’s airframe "


Vimal Bhaskar said...

Sir ,
1.Do they intend to collaborate with GE on similarly? I read it's kaveri is very much similar to F404.
2.Is there any plan by gtre to develop any high thrust variant.
3.I believe india will buy more rafale and put the offset to these programmes. But do you think there will be similar offset funds from US, UK or Russia for that matter?

Kunal Jadhav said...

Hi Prasun Sir,

Please can you list the name of countries which India is obliged to protect other than Bhutan in case of external threat or attack.

buddha said...

very nice article and if the suggestions are followed by the concerned authorities with sound intellect and proper financial planning...after 2030 Indian Air-force will be a force to reckon with with formidable 4th 4.5th and both medium and high end 5th generation fighters and UCAV and UAV

Deepak said...

Prasun Da, Our road infrastructure near china border are prone to landslides and snowfall. In such a case, instead of using expensive transport aircrafts, can hybrid airships like Lockheed Martin LMH1 airship be used for transportation? They will establish logistic lines which would cost a fraction compare to transport aircrafts. One C-130J cost us $134 million. Link-
Whereas one Lockheed Martin LMH1 airship will cost $40 million. Link-
Both can carry 20 tonnes of payload and both have good range. These airships dont need runway so they can land and takeoff from anywhere. These airships will be flying slowly at about 100 kmph just few meters above rivers inside river valleys surronded by mountains. Thus evading the chinese radars and making them much harder to detect than transport aircrafts which would fly at much higher level.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To COLD: 1) Had already explained that in great detail in previous threads. Will explain it once again with illustrations in this very thread later today, rest assured. 2) It should not, if the MATH is done as it should be, i.e. set-up of military-industrial infrastructure will be dirt-cheap compared to what it will cost to set up a similar facility for the JAS-39 Gripen-E & TATAT will become part of Lockheed Martin’s global supplier chain for not just the F-16, but for various other products for which Lockheed Martin (which now also owns Sikorsky) is the OEM—a financial windfall that can NEVER be matched by SAAB. 3) That’s the mysterious part & has yet to be explained in detail, but according to Dr S Christopher (in his interview in FORCE magazine’s August 2017 issue), it is far easier & quicker to design/develop and airframe around a proven turbofan, instead of trying to concurrently design/develop a new MRCA airframe & turbofan.

To KAUSTAV: LoLz! No LCA Mk.3, & the jury is still out on the Tejas Mk.1A, since the IAF will not order the 83 Mk.1As unless & until HAL offers it as a fully weaponised platform. Hence, the LCA-AF Mk.2 as it is now called has some bright prospects PROVIDED 1) the project management & financial sustainability angles are worked out to the minutest detail, & 2) the cheapest available MRCA is selected, i.e. the F-16 Block-70 instead of the Gripen-E. No BMD system can differentiate between inbound conventionally-armed & nuclear-armed BMs. Reliance will have to be placed on credible, minimum MAD deterrence while at the same time one should fully expect the hostiles to use conventionally-armed BMs for deep-strikes to compensate for their lack of suitable twin-engined deep-strike interdictor aircraft.

To SULTAN: According to Dr S Christopher (in his interview in FORCE magazine’s August 2017 issue), it is far easier & quicker to design/develop and airframe around a proven turbofan, instead of trying to concurrently design/develop a new MRCA airframe & turbofan. So, if airframe development of AMCA is to begin, then use has to be made of turbofans that are available today & now, i.e. F414-GE-INS6. Now, whether or not the Govt of India will accord financial sanction for the AMCA is a completely different matter.

To KUNAL JADHAV: For the moment it is only Bhutan, under the auspices of a written 2007 agreement. One can thus say that the only country with which India has a mutual defence alliance or treaty is Bhutan.

To BUDDHA & SBM: VMT. Kindly wait for the concluding part of the narrative to be uploaded later today in which more details will be contained WRT the methodology of optimizing the LCA-AF Mk.2 as a weaponised platform.

To DEEPAK: Unlike aircraft, airships can’t be deftly manoeuvred when approaching valleys or ridge-lines. The best & only cost-effective alternative is to build a string of ALGs & heli-bases throughout the north-east as well as in HP, J & K & Uttarakhand. Throughout the north-east, there are several disused ALGs that were built during WW-2. All these ALGs can also be made dual-use, i.e. civilian commercial air transportation aircraft too can use them & this in turn will promote tourism. So, there are many ways of amortising the construction/developmental costs of such ALGs & heli-bases & this in turn will not result in a burden on the national exchequer.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIMAL BHASKAR: The SAFRAN offer was selected because it forms part of the offsets commitments of both Dassault Aviation & SAFRAN under the Rafale deal. Kaveri as it now exists is nowhere near to becoming a mature turbofan design, leave alone its future growth prospects. Developing turbine engine core & high-temperature compressor blades through incorporation of rare-earth materials are the most challenging parts of turbofan developmental process & India has only now taken the necessary baby-steps for developing 2nd generation single-crystal turbine blades. So, rather than trudging along with Kaveri, if one wants quicker & smarter solutions, then one ought to leverage all that has been learnt & mastered from the Kaveri’s developmental process & mate them (from a techno-economic standpoint) with a mature/proven engine core & proven/mature turbine blades. The spinoff from all this is that the turbofan acquisition costs for Rafales MMRCAs will henceforth come down & this will act as a vital incentive for more follow-on orders for the Rafale in future.

Ludwig said...

Sir, Happy Independence Day, excellent article, I would like to take your thoughts on this:

What are your thoughts about this AIP, if they have indeed built a Direct borohydride fuel cell, with a Hydrogen fuel cell to dispose of the produced hydrogen, this platform should have very high power density and efficiency? Too good to be true?

Anonymous said...

Truly detailed and common-sense suggestion. Hence, it will not be accepted and implemented in the right spirit!


Vimal Bhaskar said...

Ty sir,
Importing core from safran and rest indigenous 60% sounds awesome.
Similarly can't we do the same with GE ,and Russians aswell?
I mean it's not the kaveri project even though in high weight class engines of Russia, could we integrate indigenous content ? rather than assembling. It's a high technical area like you said but still.....Just a rant from a ordinary folk.(i know nothing ,I'm john snow)
Love ur blog ,keep it up

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the details.
Most of the point is desirable,only concern is where does all this leave the AMCA program. Developing MK.2 by HAL and ADA by AMCA in around parallel time frame could be a stretch. Unless additional SE/Rafale fighter in near term and PAK FA added followed by AMCA development to really start after 2026-28 followed by first flight around 2035.
But in the above case and with no additional Rafale then around 2030 IAF will have mainly light and heavy fighter. Additional Rafale with Kaveri engine will be a further incentive to French to reduce cost and proceed with Amca with uprated Kaveri or with European next gen fighter

john said...


Can we expect a faster procurement process after Doklam ?

Ravenclaw said...


The South China Morning Post reported that sources close to the Chinese military have claimed the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has plans to deploy aircraft and strategic missiles against India’s troops in the event of conflict breaking out, in order to limit the action to skirmishes.

“The PLA will not seek to fight a ground war with Indian troops early on. Instead it will deploy aircraft and strategic missiles to paralyse Indian mountain divisions stationed in the Himalayas on the border with China,” a source told the newspaper on condition of anonymity.

As mentioned in this report, China wants to use its arsenal of cruise and ballistic missiles against us as well as airports. They will resort to massed fire assaults to even the odds and take away our numerical superiority in conventional forces in the North East. That means strikes against airfields,ammo depots, POL dumps and deployed forces. And we are pretty much defense less against their DF-15,21, 26 and other bm.

A preemptive Salvo of ballistic missiles can wreck havoc on our lines. We don't even have a bmew radar in that part which can warn us of an incoming missile strike . their missiles are solid fuelled. So our recon aircrafts won't pick any signs of preparation and fuelling ops. They are all on high mobility platforms and can disappear after firing off.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LUDWIG: You also ought to read the interview of the official from NAVAL GROUP (formerly DCNS) in which he explains all the collaborative work going on between his company & DRDO WRT the AIP module. The DRDO-developed AIP module should be declared as a mature design by the year’s end.

To VIMAL BHASKAR: So far no one has proposed such a joint military-technical/military-inbdustrial effort apart from France. In fact, France has been making such offers since 1973, starting with its offer to co-develop an MBT & its 1,500hp engine with India, which India had then rejected. Russian turbofans are WAY BEHIND their Western counterparts in engine technologies. Just look at how long it is taking to develop the Su-57 FGFA’s turbofans.

To JOHN: Yes, the process began late last year itself.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KAUSTAV: Probably the best I-Day felicitations from a true friend:

And then we have this moron who refuses to abide by the laws of the land, as if he is stuck in time in the 1940s’ non-cooperation movement:

And then we have these delusional morons who have no faith or who do not believe in the concept of nation-states:

And finally we have the die-hard revisionists who have such thick skulls that sound common-sense has been eluding them ever since they were born:

Claim: The outgoing vice president had observed in an interview that Muslims in the country are feeling insecure. The incoming vice president responded by calling it a political view.
Reality: Of course Muslims are feeling insecure in India but not because of the presence of far larger communities. They are feeling insecure for the same reason the rest of the Muslims across the globe are experiencing it as well, primarily due to a self-inflicted identity crisis.

Claim: Swami Vivekananda to Anne Besant to Mahatma Gandhi, viewed India in ideas that a westerner would perceive as conservative right. Swami Vivekananda described India in beautiful terms as “Dharma Praana Bharata (Dharma is the soul force of Bharat)”.
Reality: What a bunch of baloney.hogwash!!! Swami Vivekananda’s Vedanta philosophy cannot be described as or equated with any religious theology or political ideology. The term Dharma is a proper noun, not a particular noun, since it is a generic term used to denote ‘Code of Righteous Conduct’. The Swami never referred to Dharma as ‘Hindu’ Dharma, which these revisionist morons can’t comprehend.

Claim: Gandhi always spoke in his discourses and dissertations about Ram Rajya.
Reality: Yes, he indeed did, but he too was a human being & not infallible, nor was he a FARISHTAA. Had re really known what the after-effects of his words would be (which we all can see today), he would never have uttered such words, especially in terms of providing justice & security to women, which Ram had failed to provide to a pregnant Sita.

Claim: But for the first time in 70 years, the idea with a reference point in India’s genius has become the dominant idea under Prime Minister Modi. Just as Nehru never shied away from exhibiting his fascination for western ideas, Modi is ever ready to wear quintessential Indian ideas on his sleeve.
Reality: Very much true, but instead of applying sound common-sense & logical reasoning, the present-day leadership at the Centre make outrageous claims about India being a past master of surgery just because Lord Ganesha sports the head of an elephant!!! And in UP the name of the game in terms of public administration is now called ‘Passing the Buck’ & lating it all on the Almighty’s doorstep by painting all man-made disasters as being ‘Acts of God’. Such folks always deserve & will be at the receiving end of a really hard landing on solid ground very soon.

Ludwig said...

Sir Can't read full articles without subscription, could you give me the text?

Kaustav said...

Prasunda VMT While the Afghans look upto us as a role model, our opinion makers seem to prefer Pakistan, your penchant is commendable for calling out these kindred souls of any religious / political colour who want to condemn this country to a dark future. They will sooner or later get their comeuppance, hopefully without causing too much irreparable damage, if all citizens continue to work hard for a better future for our children while ignoring these hate mongers and charlatans


Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

Will the powers that be consider your recommendations for the LCA? It would be a shame if they didn't factor the things you've suggested.


anway deshpande said...

Excellent article.GOI,HAL,DRDO must follow given steps for LCA MK2.
You have complete knowledge in Defense Technology.
No offense.Truly any one read your blog from GOI,HAL or DRDO?

Anonymous said...

Regarding SSN why these deals are signed in secret annexesure with nuclear power plant instead of happening as regular defence contract? is Ind violating any international treaties or laws?In 1988 its ok say that relations with US were in soar state but now relations have been improved why cant it be regular open contract? which countries know about KNPP secret annexesure contracts?


sbm said...

This is beyond excellent. This isn't an article, it's a roadmap. Plenty of work for HAL/ ADA/ consortium etc.
It is also re-empowering HAL rather than letting the IAF/IN bear the brunt. Is HAL capable of this? I think so. The new management over the years has shown itself to show more initiative than in the past.

For the MAWS - you seem to suggest the choice is a foregone conclusion - has the German system already been selected?

DARE is developing a pylon mounted MAWS for the R-73/Python-V launch rail to offer a modicum of MAWS capability aren't they? I remember seeing something like that.

Again, a superb piece.

man van said...

Sir if Indian airforce compact aircraft/transport aircraft is going to fly from Delhi to Andaman islands through Indian states like Bangalore/Chennai (if). Are they have to inform local ATC stations about their mission route (or) they have seperate flight attitude or they have to use their IFF equipment to notify their presence to local ATC

In 2008 India acquired 6 C-130J's from US to our SF . But they used them on relief missions in 2011 at Sikkim. Then they order another 6 from US after their performance in Sikkim. Are they allowed to use their SF aircraft to relief missions?

Ram Bharadwaj said...

1.Did the INS Kalvari undergo weapons testing as part of sea-trials?
2.Which torpedo did it fire during testing?
3.What is the status of the contract for torpedoes for Kalvari class?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

1. earlier public werent able to see much of IN subs but now we get unprecedented access, how this sudden change

2. you are saying that DARIN 3 Jaguar will be flying only for 15 more years say till 2035, but if IAF is so happy why retire them

3. instead of going for F16 block 70 isnt it a better idea to go for F-16AT Falcon 21 as the latter is practically new jet

4. what you have written gives me idea that IAF/IN will both go for mid air refullers but with existing IL76 nearing TTSL & rusting that were supposed to be converted & A330 deals not signed where we will get them

5. you said 'the Indian Navy (IN) should be bold enough to use a variant of the LCA-AF Mk.2 as a shore-based maritime-strike platform. Meanwhile, the tandem-seater version of the Tejas Mk.1A can be made to serve as lead-in fighter-trainers (LIFT) for both the IAF and IN.' but do we have the money?


Joydeep Ghosh

Ankit Singh said...

Hello Prasun da,
Great article as always.
If DARE has developed the EW suite then why has the HAL floated a tender for Tejas Mk1A.
Has the MAWS by dare been integrated on Su-30 as shown in the image

sandeep said...

With regard to Muslims singing only Saare jahan se achcha ... Since Saare includes everything .. so Hindustan is better than holy Mecca... Maybe they will stop singing this Iqbal's poem after reading this.

rad said...

hi prasun
great article . I really wonder if the the GOI and drdo have the where withal to incorporate all the suggestion by you . I just hope so .will it be difficult to do sensor fusion of the irst , radar and HMS as all are foreign IPR.?

will the halbit display and avionics suite make it easier ?. Will US or selex be willing to give their codes to the Israelis for such an en devour?

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
From your reverts its clear that the F16 block70 os our best bet for single engine MRCA.
1. If this will be under SPP model what technological benefits can we get from LM Or will it be just assembly job?
2. Will we have flexibilty of using our own choice of weapons if F16 is selected?
3. How many F16s will be in IAF as per your calculation?

Rajesh Mishra said...

Again your commonsense is much better than almost all of the hyper theories. But who is to bell the cat, I mean HAL, ADA, DRDO were never merciful with the time scale.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LUDWIG: Even I don’t subscribe to the on-linbe edition. I only have a printed copy of the magazine.

To AJS: I sure hope they do.

To ANWAY DESHPANDE: VMT, & yes they all do.

To RON: No international treaties of any kind are being violated. Inclusion of such annexures helps the reqd funds to be shown as DAE funding & this in turn shows that the annual defence budget is not going over the top. All those countries who are interested in knowing about such annexures know about it, but they don’t know the detailed contents of the annexures, unless India decides to share the data with them.

To SBM: VMT. HAL is indeed capable from both technical & financial standpoints & the only kind of empowering it requires is financial autonomy. The CMD of HAL shouldn’t be expected to seek an appointment with a MoD-based Joint Secretary even if he has to seek funds for constructing a garden or school in side a HAL-owned township, as is currently the case! In addition, apex-level project management for such an effort MUST be led by a serving AM/AVM from the IAF, with a HAL official as his Deputy. Unless both HAL & the IAF assume joint stakes, responsibilities & risks, the proposed military-technical/military-industrial formula will remain unimplementable.

The German MAWS was selected in the previous decade itself for fitment on all HAL-licence-built combat aircraft during mid-life deep upgrades & its installation architecture was first displayed at Aero India 2011. For the Rudra, LCH & LUH, the SaabTech-supplied MAWS was selected. The pylon-mounted MAWS was meant for the Super Su-30MKI upgrade package & it was only a proposal that was subsequently discarded because total MAWS coverage should be hemispherical & not purely directional. This is because all AAMs & SAMs nowadays use proportional navigation in their terminal flight stage & so, for instamce, a SAM or AAM launched from the front or rear will not home in laterally, but will instead approach the aircraft from the sides or from the top. Hence, the optimum location for MAWS—be it for fixed-wing combat aircraft or attack helicopters—is at the wingtips or tips of the sub-wings, followed by one each atop & below the fuselage, one pointing straight ahead (& one pointing rearwards . The same now applies also to RWRs & LWRs. For the LCA-AF Mk.2 or any other MRCA for that matter, 2 clusters of RWR-cum-active jammer/MAWS/LWR will be reqd for each wingtip, plus 1 cluster atop the vertical tail (facing ahead) & another at the base of the vertical tail (facing rearwards).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MAN-VAN: The IAF has its own flight corridors (separate altitude & direction & en-route navigation aids) as well as separate air-traffic management network (inclusive of primary & secondary surveillance radars & landing aids located at various IAF air bases). For airspace monitoring, the air situation pictures from both civilian & military ATC centres is fused to present a unified picture & this is what IACCCS is all about. Each & every type of fixed-wing & rotary-winged aircraft serves a dual-use purpose, bot just in India, but all over the world.

To RAM BHARADWAJ: 1) Yes for the SM-39 Exocet, no for the HWT. Only ejection tests of the HWT using SUT were carried out. 2) Only the SUT was sub jected to ejection tests. 3) Negotiations are complete & the contract is ready for signature for the Black Shark.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) Yes, but that applies only to the Type 877EKM SSKs, not the Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs or Type 970 SSGN or S-2/Arihant SSBN. 2) Because nothing lasts forever. There will come a time when spares won’t be available for the airframe & that’s the time when one has to bid goodbye to the Jaguar IS fleet. 3) F-16 Block-70 can easily be upgraded to Falson-21 configuration during the mid-life deep upgrade stage. 4) TTSL of the IL-76MD’s D-30 engines are nearing the end. The airframe itself can always be zero-lifed. That’s why even WW-2 DC-3s & C-47 Dakotas are flying even today after being re-engined. 5) Even the Tejas Mk.1A can serve as a shore-based maritime strike platform & its tandem-seater variant can serve as LIFT—as I had explained several times before. I therefore am not in favour of 83 Tejas Mk.1As being acquired for the IAF or even the remaining 20 Tejas Mk.1s. The IAF should acquire only 20 SP-series Tejas Mk.1s & about 90 Mk.1 LIFT platforms (whici can also double up as ground-attack aircraft) & subsequently both the IAF & IN should be firmly committed to the LCA-AF Mk.2 variant, with the IAF going for some 150 units & the IN going for 60 units. Mon ey availability isn’t a problem at all, PROVIDED the necessary structural & administrative reforms within the MoD are carried out. If HAL is transformed into a publicly-listed company through large-scale divestment of MoD-owned shares, HAL can raise the entire quantum of reqd developmental/series-production funds from the stock markets through IPO offerings in less than 1 week, rest assured! Therefore, it is all about doing things the smart/intelligent way, & not in a bureaucratic manner. At the MoD-level, the Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies should no longer be made to serve as a sitting board-member of the Board of Directors of all MoD-owned DPSUs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANKIT SINGH: Tejas Mk.1A cannot accommodate an internal ASPJ suite & thus requires a pod-mounted jammer. DARE has also developed a wide0band pod-mounted jammer & is free to submit its bid to HAL as well. MAWS architecture for Su-30MKI mid-life upgrade has already been finalized & I had shown its fitment configuration photos in the Aero India 2017 thread last February.

To SANDEEP: That shows the extent to which ordinary Muslim folks are willing to be brainwashed & be led by their nose by those Mullahs who prefer oversimplified diktats that are dessiminated in the weekly Friday sermons. This existing practice goes against all that the Holy Prophet had preached, i.e. he always encouraged questioning till such a time that a compelling argument had emerged. Sadly, no one cares for all the foundational preachings/explanations of the Holy Prophet & hence the sense of identity-crisis & low sense of self-esteem among the majority of that community on a global scale.

To RAD: Since all the reqd sensor-fusion work will be reqd to be done by HAL with the support of DARE, LRDE, CABS & ADA, all the consequential IPRs will be jointly owned by HAL & DRDO, since the entire installation/integration effort will be carried out exclusively on-board an India-designed MRCA. Why should Selex-ES be reqd to share source codes with anyone? All that is reqd is an interface mechanism/LRU that enables the MIL-STD-1553B digibus to seamlessly enable the sharing/transfer/fusion of data/imagery for presentation on the panoramic AMLCD of the Cockpit-NG.

To VED: 1) It will be just a final-assembly job that will generate employment & from a technological standpoint, it will result in infusion of Western engineering development/production QX/QA standards into India’s aerospace industry. In addition, access will be gained to the global supplier chain, which will be value-added in nature & will also ensure sustainability of highly-skilled job availability—all of which were never made available to India when licence-producing aircraft of Soviet-/Russia-origin. 2) Of course. Every F-16 customer worldwide that is willing to bear the costs of weapons integration/qualification has always had this flexibility. 3) At least 150.

dilbert said...

Hi Prasun,

From your remarks in general, and your reply to Ved in particular, it seems to me that you are saying that the decision has already been made (not "most probably", not "it's very likely", but "it's a done deal") to acquire the F16/70 in large numbers ("at least 150"). Further, you had already said several times earlier that a small-to-moderate sized (let's say 20 to 40) follow-on order for Rafales will definitely be placed. Am I presenting a fair summary of your views?

Assuming the answer to my question above is "Yes", what do you see as a likely minimum subset of the weapons that will be ordered with the F16s? I see the following:

1. AIM-9/? (latest variant) linked in to the helmet-mounted sight.
2. AMRAAM (latest variant, far more advanced than what the Pakis have)
3. Various combinations of Paveway lasers/guidance kits for ground attack.
4. Hellfire missiles.
5. An agreement with LM to support (at Indian expense) the integration of other weapons in the future (presumably Akash / Spike / Derby).

You know, I have to chuckle about all this. I'm an old guy now. I remember very well the dark days of the Cold War, when anti-Americanism was the fashionable thing in India, and suspicion/hostility towards India was standard not just in the US but in its poodles as well (UK, Canada, Australia). They all loved the Pakis (ROFL). And look where we are now -- Pakis whining and butt-hurt, China whining and butt-hurt, India and US have signed the LEMOA and seem (IMO) likely to sign CISMOA and BECA (or whatever son-of-CISMOA and daughter-of-BECA they come up with) within the next year or two. Isn't life funny?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KAUSTAV: And the hits just keep on coming for the career-Yogi-cum-politician:

And yet he refuses to heed the Almighty's signals & also refuses to atone. Such folks are truly beyond hope & beyond despair.


Shocking Analysis of Disastrous Condition of Pakistan's Economy:

Pakistan Sponsored Anti-India Protests in Paris:


PA COAS Visit to LoC on August 14, 2017

RSAF Hawk Mk.64 Hawks over Islamabad on August 14:

Turkish F-16 Solo over Islamabad on August 14:

First prototypes of 7.62 x 51 Ghaatak SLRs being test-fired in OFB Ishapore's baffle range:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIERRE ZORIN: Monkey unfurls Indian Tricolour in Rajasthan:

Looks like these monkeys too want to graduate to the next step of the evolutionary ladder! And why not!

Gopu said...

Unfortunately, your well-intentioned roadmap for the Tejas will fall on deaf ears. As you stated, project management for Tejas rests with the MoD. Currently, the RM of the MoD has far more important matters on hand than rectifying the faulty Tejas roadmap.

The only signal that these sanghis are sending is that BJP is ready to export Bihar and UPs shit to the rest of India. The BJP and RSS have launched a vicious propaganda campaign against Kerala, trying to malign the state as some sort of terrorism hub and creating this totally false narrative of a repressed "Hindu minority".

What happened to the BJP's promises of 8% real growth by 2019? And all the fanfare surrounding the election of Aditya Nath in UP?

Frankly speaking, if any of your children, God forbid, had to go to the hospital for treatment, would you send them to Gorakhpur, the city that Aditya Nath has been blessed to represent and guide with his preternatural "yogi powers", or Kerala, arguably where the best medical care is available in India?

Therein, one can observe the different priorities that sanghis and Malayalis hold.

Why is no one in the media bothered to analyze these trends and introspect on the state of democracy in India? I will just leave it at that, but I also suggest any one interested to read what Shashi Tharoor has to say on switching from a parliamentary system to a presidential system. I certainly agree that the democratic mechanism that administers the country should be modified, yet I am hesitant to endorse any particular existing mechanism as the 'right' one for India. Recall that the US framers did not endorse or foresee the notion of the political party.

Gopu said...

While the Indo-US defense relation is/will boom, Indians at home should remember Former Ambassador to the US Ronen Sen's own words on the Indo-US relation as one that has had "its up and downs but has largely been marked with indifference over the years". In this context, we should acknowledge the Indo-US interaction and cooperation will still be limited in many respects in the years to come, in spite of greater strategic convergence drawing both sides closer together.

Therefore, while the US has been at the apex of India's diplomatic efforts, it could be useful for New Delhi to diversify its international efforts.

With this context, it would benefit India to find a strategic partner nation that would partner with India in five sectors: defense, transportation/connectivity, academic and education, economic, and cultural/people to people contact.

Currently, the best country that fills this strategic partnership mold is Japan. Shinzo Abe has set the ball rolling since his last visit to India, where he pledged to set up a high speed rail link between Mumbai and Ahmedabad.

One possible venue to further this cooperation would involve jointly developing a next generation aircraft with Japan, by merging the AMCA and X-2 programs. While Japan does have a strong academic and manufacturing base, it should be noted that Japan will struggle through the actual systems integration and engineering efforts involved in any next-gen fighter. Case in point, the Mitsubishi MRJ has suffered from several engineering design problems and delays, which shows Japan's own inexperience in the aviation industry. A risk sharing joint development program would be the optimum path for both countries to pursue.

Gopu said...

Also, I think the MoD should carefully evaluate the actual deliverables of the proposed GTRE-Safran turbofan before approving the project worth several hundred million euros. Will this engine be economical in the proposed numbers to be ordered? Will GTRE take away any hard skills that will help it on future projects?

The M88-2 engine core will be unsuitable for the AMCA, so what would be the long term scope of the project outside of the Tejas progamme? If Tejas mk1A and mk2 are cancelled, what will GTRE do with this turbofan?

Unless the above can be clarified, it might be better off for Safran and the MoD to spend its offset money on a R&D facility in India, wholly-owned by Safran.


" "

<< The PLA is unlikely to try anything near the already restive Sikkim-Bhutan-Sikkim tri-junction because Indian troops are militarily much better-placed there and can easily threaten China's narrow Chumbi Valley in the region, if required, the according to India's assessment. "But the PLA could try something in eastern Ladakh, as was seen on Tuesday, or eastern Arunachal Pradesh or Lipulekh Pass and Barahoti in the central sector (Himachal-Uttarakhand)," one of the sources said. >>

It seems you are the source here??

" Negotiations are complete & the contract is ready for signature for the Black Shark. "

Is it true ??? BTW MOD it seems is working very fast indeed !! who is the person who did this negotiation successfully???



Ankit Singh said...

What were the aerodynamics shortcomings in the LCA MK1?
Atleast now what is stopping ADA to go through the GE design for LCA MK2.
The Gnat LCA would have been a good break through for the aeronautical industry in India.
This policy makers and their bureaucrats have always hindered India's development.

sbm said...

Something has me puzzled: if there is a disruptive conventionally armed ballistic missile strike vs Indian airbases, how does India deal with it? OK, aircraft in HAS will in the main be safe but runways will be affected. Is there any ability to get even minimal early warning?

Also, what of a disruptive EMP strike on Indian airbases or military formations? How can they deal with that? Surely there must be contingencies?

Any guidance appreciated.

Vimal Bhaskar said...

What about the Eurojet EU200 upgrade program that hopes to achieve 25% extra is also proposed for. AMCA and Turkey TFX. Rolls-Royce also lobbying for this programme do you think IAF will ditch GE for this? For now it seems like IAF is satisfied with the reliability and high thrust of proposed F414 .With high commonality with tejas mk2, gripen(if selected) ,Amca it is worth while for GE to collaborate with india on engine (atleast in above mentioned scenario).What would you suggest GE/EU/safran for Amca?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

3 different newspapers saying different things about the Grigorovich-class FFGs, 3 of which--Admiral Istomin, Admiral Butakov & Admiral Kornilov--will enter service with the Russian navy powered by NPO Saturn-developed gas turbines & this has since been confirmed by the Russian Navy. That means only 2 Project 1135.6 FFGs will be built in India by GSL.

Anup said...

Excellent artical.
Army get only 6 apache? And DRDO,HAL,MOD Read ur blog why not they follow ur given stpes? You have given complete road map for Lca tejas mk2.

Parthasarathi said...


Just want to know few questions regarding Tejas,

a) If we have to import the turbine and compressor ( core ) from SAFRAN, then what else is left in a jet engine ? Only nozzle and gear box ? So we are importing the main components as usual ! As per cost are concern, it will be 60-70 % of the cost of the engine. What is your opinion on this? And why should we ditch a highly reliable GE. engine for this hybrid ?
b) What type of Radar will be fitted on MK1A ? Is it EL/M 2052 or something "swadeshi" ?
c) Why the production rate is so slow even after commissioning second assembly line /

Best regards,

Devopriyo said...

Hi Prasun,

If my memory serves me right, you have been advocating this for some time. But will six be of any use?

Devopriyo said...

and suddenly pak newspapers have become very inward looking..too busy with panamagate to worry about it an ostrish burying its head

Anonymous said...


Would'nt our defence against PRC aggression be easier if we go back on our policy of nuclear no first use and train/reorient the armed forces for the first use of nuclear weapons in the event of any serious conventional setback ?

This belligerent rhetoric from PRC side, constant needling and moving towards war at a time and place of their choosing would not have been possible if we had a declared policy of nuclear first use if necessary.


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GOPU: The outflow of dogmatic ideological filth & historical distortions are not emanating so much from Bihar, but rather from Rajasthan, UP, Haryana & Madhya Pradesh. In terms of personal hygiene & public sanitation, these states are light years behind Kerala primarily due to Kerala’s high literacy rate that in turn creates high degree of public awareness. A recent explanation by an ex-DGP of Kerala State Police revealed that whenever any political party in Kerala wants to kill someone from an opposing party, the former outsources this work to the local gangsters. i.e. it is purely a business transaction. When the aggrieved party (the latter) wants revenge, it adopts the same tactic & outsources such murderous talents. In other words, if the rule of law were allowed to prevail sans any interference, no such killings would ever taken place. Ronen Sen’s remarks were about the era from 1972 till 1980. US interest in India went hyper in 1991 after the tabling of the Kickleighter Proposals. For countries like India, the US will in the foreseeable future be continue to be (as it has been since the 1950s) the primary sources of intellectual capital, i.e. higher education in cutting-edge areas. No other country can compete with the US in this arena. But yes, in terms of industrial cooperation in areas of consumer electronics, industrial robotics & heavy engineering, Japan, followed by Taiwan and RoK must be empowered to replace China’s present-day market shares in India. This & this alone will go a long way in domesticating China.

As for the new-design turbofan for LCA-AF Mk.2, kindly rest assured that it will essentially be the M88-2 of SAFRAN, but with 60% Made-in-India components (in order to meet the 50% industrial offsets target for the Rafale deal) that will all be SAFRAN-designed. In a way it will be somewhat of a leap ahead of what has been going on with the SAFRAN/Turbomeca Ardiden-1H engine for the ALH, LCH & LUH, i.e. onky 10% of its components are Made-in-India, with the rest coming from Farnce & being licence-assembled by HAL. AMCA is still a distant dream & should not even be thought of by anyone unless & until the weaponised LCA-AF Mk.2 becomes a firm reality.

To AMIT BISWAS: Yes, perhaps that could well be the case, but these ‘desi’ news-reporters are well-known for picking up stuff here & there & then attributing them to ‘unnamed’ or ‘anonymous’ sources. Once the SUBTICS combat management system (CMS) is locked-n-loaded inside the hull of a Scorpene SSK, it is impossible to reprogramme/reconfigure it until the time the SSK goes for a mid-life refit. Since the SUBTICS comes with a standard integration with Black Shark HWT (as is the case with Chilean & Malaysian Scorpenes), the IN too will have to accept the Black Shark since the SUBTICS CMS on the Indian Scorpenes was NEVER modified/reprogrammed to accept any other HWT & that’s because when WASS was blacklisted by the MoD, by that time SUBTICS was being installed inside the hulls of the IN’s Scorpenes. Therefore, be it the previous RM or the present-day RM, everyone without fail has to bow down to the laws of physics, for there are no miracles/chamatkaars or ‘magic wands’ or Alladin’s ‘Magic Lamp’ available for changing the laws of physics.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANKIT SINGH: I had already explained it all in aprevious thread last month to RAD. GE Aero Engines has a contract for only supplying F414-GE-INS6 turbofans off-the-shelf & there’s no co-development or co-manufacturing involved. SAFRAN on the other hand has guaranteed high quantum of industrial workshare in India as part of the Rafale industrial offsets commitments. In addition, since there will be a high degree ofcomponents-level commonality between the Rafale’s M88-2 & the M88-2 derivatiove meant for the LCA-AF Mk.2, multi-level MRO reqmts for both aircraft types can easily be rationalised & MRO costs will be reduced as a consequence. This ij turn will ensure high fleet serviceability/availability rates for both aircraft-types. The F414-GE-INS6 would have been preferable had the IAF opted for the JAS-39 Gripen-E, but since the F-16 Block 70 will be procured, the techno-economics matrix demands that a high degree of sub-systems/component-level commonality be achieved by the Rafale/LCA-AF Mk.2 fleets.

To SBM: I had already answered that on August 14, 2017@2:18AM in the previous thread:

Conventionally-armed BMs of the PLA have only cluster munitions designed to kill personnel & therefore they do minimal structural damage to any infrastructure facility. Their CEPs are some 250 metres & are therefore incapable of precision-strike. Presently, there are no defensive options available anywhere in the world to counter disruptive EMP-strikes. The only option is prevention, i.e. having a theatre missile defence (TMD) network comprising either hittile interceptor missiles, or high-power laser-based directed-energy weapons to disable the BMs & their warheads.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIMAL BHASKAR: What about it? Both M88-2 & EJ-200 have futuristic growth versions as part of their respective pre-planned product improvement roadmaps. If the IAF wasn’t satisfied with the reliability of the M88-2, then it would not have selected the Rafale as its MMRCA, would it? I never was & I still am not convinced about the viability or operational reqmt for the AMCA. In my view, the Su-57 FGFA can do everything & much more than the proposed AMCA solution. Only a thoroughbred fool/idiot will select the JAS-39 Gripen-E & that’s because the F-16’s lists of industrial vendors/components suppliers are all based in the US & hence Lockheed Martin will find it extremely easy & cheaper to finalise industrial workshares with its Indian industrial counterparts & will also introduce these Indian entities to the global supplier-chains of the various US aerospace companies involved with F-16 series production. Saab on the other hand will find this impossible to achieve since about two-thirds of its industrial vendors are all outside Sweden & are spread out throughout Europe, the US & Scandinavia. This will not only complicate contractual negotiations over a protracted period of time, but will also make it a highly expensive affair. Saab therefore simply cannot compete with giants like Lockheed Martin in terms of the enormous size of the US-based global supplier-chains. Going for the F-16 therefore will lead to much greater job-creation opportunities for India. Finally, Saab has been unable to go beyond the Gripen-E in terms of pre-planned product improvement over a 40-year timeframe, whereas the F-16U Falcon-21 growth variant of the current F-16 Block 70 had been designed way back in the early 1990s.

To PARTHASARATHI: A) As for the new-design turbofan for LCA-AF Mk.2, kindly rest assured that it will essentially be the M88-2 of SAFRAN, but with 60% Made-in-India components (in order to meet the 50% industrial offsets target for the Rafale deal) that will all be SAFRAN-designed. In a way it will be somewhat of a leap ahead of what has been going on with the SAFRAN/Turbomeca Ardiden-1H engine for the ALH, LCH & LUH, i.e. onky 10% of its components are Made-in-India, with the rest coming from Farnce & being licence-assembled by HAL. . GE Aero Engines has a contract for only supplying F414-GE-INS6 turbofans off-the-shelf & there’s no co-development or co-manufacturing involved. SAFRAN on the other hand has guaranteed high quantum of industrial workshare in India as part of the Rafale industrial offsets commitments. In addition, since there will be a high degree ofcomponents-level commonality between the Rafale’s M88-2 & the M88-2 derivatiove meant for the LCA-AF Mk.2, multi-level MRO reqmts for both aircraft types can easily be rationalised & MRO costs will be reduced as a consequence. This ij turn will ensure high fleet serviceability/availability rates for both aircraft-types. The F414-GE-INS6 would have been preferable had the IAF opted for the JAS-39 Gripen-E, but since the F-16 Block 70 will be procured, the techno-economics matrix demands that a high degree of sub-systems/component-level commonality be achieved by the Rafale/LCA-AF Mk.2 fleets. B) EL/M-2052 AESA-MMR. C) Ramping up production is always a time-consuming process worldwide. 2nd assembly line has not yet come on-line & the delays are ALWAYS due to delayed release of funds to HAL by the MoD.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANUP, AMIT BISWAS & DEVOPRIYO: In order to understand why the IA’s Aviation Corps (AAC) has since 1971 been asking for its own fleet of attack helicopters & helicopter-gunships & medium-lift CASEVAC helicopters, one must first understand the concept of close air-support (CAS) or battlefield air-interdiction (BAI).

1. CAS/BAI is reqd primarily for waging the immediate contact battles when the line separating the 2 opposing forces is blurred & is not linear or lateral. Consequently, any fixed-wing aircraft flying above at 5,000 feet/10,000 feet for taking recce photos/imagery prior to mounting a CAS/BAI sortie will never be able to distinguish between friendly & opposing forces from such heights. Then the imagery has to be interpreted/analysed at a separate location—a time-consuming process that takes at least 12 or even 24 hours (in 1971 it took 48 hours & in 1999 it took 24 hours) & then the results have to be sent to the ground formations. By this time the battlefield locations would have changed to a large degree, rendering the recce sorties totally irrelevant. In September 1965 when the IAF mounted CAS/BAI sorties at short notice (26 minutes without prior recce, such attacks ended up attacking only friendly forces on the ground.

2) On the other hand, the AAC’s recce/scout (RSH) helicopters & attack helicopters are always attached to ground formations as integral elements & therefore the AAC aircrews have a clear, real-time picture of the battlefield as they operate only 50 feet above the ground at most & are thus best-suited to detect (the enemy’s direction of approach) & engage targets out to the horizon (depth of 50km) & also provide fire-direction cues for frienfly field/rocket artillery formations. As a result, there’s no second-guessing, it is no longer the waging of estimates-based warfare & instead it becomes knowledge-based warfare since it involves the rapid delivery of fire-assaults even when the enemy forces are manoeuvring & moving.

3) The combination of RSH/attack helicopters can also cover great distances (just as the bird flies) rapidly when compared with the need to move MBT convoys by rail or road when the need arises to block a sudden armoured offensive by the enemy. And when concentrated (i.e. a force of 20 RSH helicopters, 60 attack helicopters & four medium-lift helicopters equipped with belly-mounted battlefield surveillance radars that will drastically shorten the sensor-to-shooter response time), this combination possesses as much firepower as an Armoured Division that can, unlike any ground-based mechanised or armoured division, attack the enemy formations from multiple directions all at the same time over a wide frontage.

4) All this then frees the IAF to use its MRCAs for attacking the enemy’s second-echelon follow-on forces in the rear-areas from Day 1 itself, & also targetting the enemy’s railway/road junctions, bridges, culverts & ammo storage dumps, thereby preventing the enemy from receiving reinforcements, i.e, the enemy’s battlefield logistics is then totally paralysed & rendered ineffective. All that the IAF needs are plenty of MRCAs, plus a fleet of 7 battlefield surveillance aircraft (just like the Bombardier Aerospace Global 5000s equipped with EL/M-2060 belly-mounted SAR sensors) that can look up to 140km deep inside enemy territory to monitor in real-time the enemy’s road/railway movements & vehicular concentration areas. This will drastically shorten the sensor-to-shooter response time & will also close the OODA loop.

buddha said...

great analysis of how army and air-force can use its air assets in battle field and how it will impact the rsult

Anonymous said...

How come Indian army killing terrorists in Kashmir nearly daily from the last few months? Is to do with better military inteligence gathering or in reality the Kashmir Muslims no more likes the Pakistani proxy war and actually helping Indian army flushing out the shit.


sbm said...

I understand. Thanks - much appreciated

Hasn't the IAF/IA taken such measures which would mitigate EMP to an extent by having command networks, AD networks, munitions stores and spares stored underground? How long post a disruptive EMP strike would it take to restore capability?

On a separate note, doesn't the IAF have full underground hangars at Bareilly, Hindon and Adampur? With others planned?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JYOTI: There are 2 reasons: First is economic. When normal economic life gets disrupted, depleting/declining financial earnings due to unemployment take their toll & desperation increases & therefore the local natives then become more eager to act as informants providing actionable intelligence-related information in return for financial rewards. Secondly, historically speaking, call them militants or terrorists (to me they're all terrorists) from either side of the LoC--be they Kashmiris or Punjabis--they all have always been indisciplined the moment they got the chance to take a breath of fresh air far away from the control of the puritanical clergy/mullahs. In fact, the PA's SSG had way back in 1965 done a comparative study on Jihadis from Pakistan & PoK, and the Mizo/Naga separatists that were then being trained & mentored by the ISI in the then East Pakistan. The study revealed that while the Nagas & Mizos were hardworking, disciplined & never got distracted, the Kashmiri & Punjabi Jihadists were the exact opposite & they always had a weakness for the opposite sex that just could not be controlled or suppressed. This weakness in turn led to 'Ayaashi' in the form of tormenting, intimidating & exploiting younger members of the opposite sex inside J & K, & engaging in extortion rackets against the local male natives in the rural areas. Thus, after a while, the local community of J & K at the receiving end decides the enough is enough & they then become informants for the J & K State Police & the Rashtriya Rifles.

To SBM: The only way tyo insulate oneself from EMP blasts is to dig a hole within a mountain, like the US has done in Colorado, Nebraska & Wyoming. But even the US cannot flush everything underground & one can clearly see the half-a-mile-long armament deports storing weapons of all types overground at the air base in Guam, which stores the max quantum of such munitions in any one US military base. The hangars located underground are not exactly hangars, but MRO-related hangars where the combat aircraft are both stored & serviced.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

A PAF F7-PG, while on a routine operational training mission, crashed near Sargodha on August 17, 2017. On May 25, 2017 another PAF F-7PG, while on a routine operational training mission, had crashed near Mianwali.

PIA the world's leading airliner for smuggling drugs:

Xinhua New Agency of China's portrayal of the 7 Sins of India:

Joyrides by 'desi patrakaars' on the JAS-39 Gripen-D have begun:

Japanese Bar Employs Monkeys as Waiters:

Ukraine alleges that all rocket propulsion-related products imported by China from Ukraine since the 1990s have ended up in North Korea:

Documentary on IA's SF Para:

sbm said...

What of measures like enhanced shielding of certain platforms plus perhaps the use of faraday cages for certain items?

One can assume that China is as vulnerable as India?

There is something I don't understand: even if we assume that WWR are as low as stated for a 2.5 Intense war, what's to stop allocating priority and refining approaches.

Eg. if in an intense war with China, Pak directed forces adopt a different approach to optimize the use of munitions effectively thus allowing forces vs China to fight?

Also, if I understand things, if an order is placed with OFB for bulk ammunition supplies, it takes about 5 years to complete it, have it inspected and issued.

Therefore, if ammunition was ordered in 2013, wouldn't it only arrive in 2018? Missing the CAG cut-off?

Plus didn't General Singh say:

"Depletion of War Wastage Reserve (WWR) is going to be augmented with the sanctioned amount of Rs 19, 250 crores. By 2015, we will have 50% of the WWR and a three-year training ammunition with us. By 2018-19, we are hopeful that our WWR will go up by 100% and it will enhance our combat power," Gen Singh said. At present, the WWR stands at 40%:

Hasn't this been achieved? Hence General Rawat's confidence?

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

How many Apache's will eventually be procured? Will they be deployed in both fronts? Will the IAF and the IA maintain a separate fleets?

Best Regards

Sanjay Sharma said...

Dear Prasunji,

1) You said that civilians in j&k can approach high court for justice against army crimes on women. But how can that be if Afspa is in effect. The forces are shielded right??

2) You once said you had interviewed many elders from j&k. What do they say about sexual violence in that state?

3) My point is sir, if our forces do crimes and then go Scott free, that will create a bad impression of us in the minds of the kashmiris.

If we treat them like enemies by not giving them justice, then obviously they will behave like enemies, na?

4) What do you think the people in the valley think of India after 30 years of military presence?
They must have gotten fed up with the constant presence of camouflaged men at every corner.

What I want to know is has our military presence in kashmir, turned even those kashmiris who were okay with India against us??

5) You said prasunji that only a small number of areas in jk have unrest. But sir, protest and terror attacks have happened in all districts of kashmir and some in jammu. Has violence gotten worse after your last assessment?

6) Since one of the readers brought up kerala sir, I have a question. We all know kerala is well educated, but how does it compare in other areas like infrastructure, industry, communal relations etc with bjp ruled states like rajasthan and gujarat.

7) It has been a couple of days since you have us an update on the tensions with China sir. What's the latest news after the stone fight??

Any chance of escalation???


jasss gill said...

sir why only kilo class for public why not type 209 or ins chakra any special reason ?

Anonymous said...

Eye opening


john said...


1. What are the chances of obtaining General Atomic's Avenger UAV? Will Trump sell it to us?

2. If it happens, Can it replace MRCA role?

3. Our order is for 100 numbers, Will it go up ?

4. Your opinion on buying 'Sea Avenger' for our aircraft carriers

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: 1) EMP-shielding is adopted for manned airborne platforms like strategic bombers that are delivering nuclear WMDs. It is impossible to do the same on much smaller combat aircraft. Only limited EMP-hardening can be attempted, but not shielding. Following an EMP blast, the electrical & electronic systems at the receivinh end are inoperable for only limited periods, i.e. not more than 50 minutes. Hence, instead of the more expensive option of EMP-shielding, use is made of the systems redundancy tactic to plug the vital gaps, be it for sensors or air-defence weapon systems.

2) The WWR issue needs to be contextualised. WWR in relation to which scenario? For total mobilisation like the one witnessed during OP Parakram. When all the WWR reqmts were met through urgent imports within 8 months? Or even in 1971 when the period August 1971 till October 1971 was used for replenishing all WWR stocks? In today’s scenario, total mobilisation under a nuclear over-hang is absolutely ruled out since neither China nor Pakistan will opt for total war against India. That leaves only the high-intensity limited war scenario on the table, even along 2 fronts concurrently, i.e. to the north & west. It is to cater to this possibility that WWR stockpiles are reqd & must be quantified accordingly. This is what the CAG fails to do in its report simply because no one has advised or briefed the CAG on the difference between total war with overwhelming force, & high-intensity limited war along limited frontages in limited theatres, which can last between 14 days up to 3 months (going by the 1999 experience). Hence all the resultant confusion in the public domain. If the armed forces started placing bulk orders by late 2016 (which they did), then it means that by this month itself all the consignments will have arrived in India.

To RAJESH: The IAF requires the Apaches for staging cross-border attacks against hostile air-defence networks that are very close to the IB, LoC & LAC (I had already pinpointed those locations along the LAC 3 threads ago) & for undertaking CSAR missions for rescuing downed IAF aircrew. The IA requires the Apaches for providing CAS/BAI to friendly ground forces. Since the IAF is also going for 65 LCHs & the IA for close to 120 LCHs, the IA therefore requires some 40 Apaches, along with a totall of 60 CH-46F heavylift helicopters for assisting in battlefield logistics.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANJAY SHARMA: 1) AFSPA does not shield IA personnel from the law. What it does is it provides for a General Court Martial trial for the accused, instead of holding the trial in a civilian court. That’s exactly what happened with the Macchil encounter case in which all the accused were awarded prison terms. 2) They all say that such violence has overwhelmingly been perpetrated by their own fellow Kashmiris as well as by those who come across the LoC. 3) They have never gone scott-free & more than 200 IA/CAPF personnel have so far been awarded prison terms as punishment for their misdeeds. 4) That feeling exists only in the Kashmir Valley among a tiny minority of the local inhabitants, & not in Jammu & Ladakh. The great majority welcome the military presence because such a presence provides safety/security & plenty of job opportunities, especially in those remote areas (like Gurez or Kargil or Batalik or Drass or Turtuk) where there is hardly any civilian public administration machinery. 5) Of course not. The figure I had given earlier is still valid & has very much been accepted by almost the whole world (except China & Pakistan) after their Ambassadors & Consular officials went to J & K (with the GoI’s full & unconditional approval) to see & analyse the ground-situation through their own eyes. Just because such officials don’t publicise such visits through press-conferences doesn’t mean such fact-finding visits don’t take place at all. 6) Compared to Kerala, Rajasthan is in the Neolithic era. Gujarat is that unfortunate state where both the state’s ruling party & opposition parties all have leaders pledging allegiance to the RSS. Just go to Gandhinagar or any other city in Gujarat to see for yourself how they are coping with the bans on cow slaughter & the steadily increasing cattle population & what kind of miseries they have unleashed on the inhabitants of such cities. It may well be totally acceptable to the inhabitants of Gujarat, but that same yardstick cannot be applied to the rest of India. 7) The latest is that Japan has openly supported India’s point-of-view:

To JASSES GILL: I can’t think of any common-sensical reason. Perhaps it is just the legacy of the dogma that had prevailed during the Cold War era.

To JOHN: 1) That’s not the issue. The question to be asked is does the IAF possess its own telecommunications satellite that’s reqd for catering to the SATCOM bandwidth reqd for operating such UCAS platforms, regardless of whether or not the US sells them to India? 2) Can any UCAS undertake evasive manoeuvres or engage in dogfights? If not, how can they ever replace manned MRCAs? 3) Order is only for Guardian UAS, not Avenger. 4) It hasn’t hbappened, nor will it happen at least for the next 20 years, rest assured.

Anonymous said...

/In fact, the PA's SSG had way back in 1965 done a comparative study on Jihadis from Pakistan & PoK, and the Mizo/Naga separatists that were then being trained & mentored by the ISI in the then East Pakistan. The study revealed that while the Nagas & Mizos were hardworking, disciplined & never got distracted, the Kashmiri & Punjabi Jihadists were the exact opposite & they always had a weakness for the opposite sex that just could not be controlled or suppressed.

Prasun Da, If you could provide this report, I would be very indebted to you.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

1. you have said this wont happen but

2. The reason I asked about F16 Falcon 21 upgrade bcoz the delta wing makes it a virtually new jet that will have to be certified by LM/USA first as it will possibly carry a whole new set of sensors & other units

3. as IA gets its hands on AH64E after IAF why doesnt IN go for them as i read material that says AH64E are specifically suited for maritime ops means these can go couple each on future LHDs & the 3 carriers of IN

4. is this even possible

your views

Joydeep Ghosh

sandeep said...

Having worked in both badaun and Kerala which is my current workplace .. in terms of cleanliness and extent of civilisation .. definitely Kerala is a better place than UP ... there is an underlying rot which cannot be overlooked here ...

Grass is greener here sure ..But it also rains a lot... If there is something more common than rain in Kerala it has to be radicalism and conversion... as u know for all Grass is always greener on other side

sbm said...

That was most informative. So for combat aircraft, wouldn't the IAF have a stock of LRUs and components to quickly mitigate any damage caused by an EMP? Obviously this is not with the intent of EMP but part of regular stores etc? For nuclear weapons delivery, wouldn't 1 sqn of the Mirage 2000s be EMP protected as well as at least 2 of the SU-30s? I was speaking to a Russian who worked on the Su-30MKI project and he indicated that the Su-30MKI had a high degree of protection against EMP compared to some of its competitors.. who knows?

Anyway onto the issue of WWRs. You as usual make a lot of sense. My good friend Gurmeet Kanwal says "The CAG report says it all". But the truth is, it really doesn't. It works with information it has to point out shortcomings.

Clearly the CAG - the GOI and even the Military - still talk in terms of a 40I 2.5 front total war and have calculated stocks accordingly.

Wouldn't this mean that the orders placed in 2016 would go towards meeting a 40I 2.5 front WWR?

There is something I don't understand about the CAG report on WWR - from 2013-2016 OFB had shortfalls in several areas but it met its targets in some areas such as 155mm shells. Wouldn't these have gone towards filling the 40I WWRs and reducing the deficiency in respect of that ammunition?

What I can't understand is the fuzing issue? Production of artillery fuzes has been an issue but also know that it is a shortfall that can be met.

Furthermore, what about this statement from General Bikram Singh:

"Depletion of War Wastage Reserve (WWR) is going to be augmented with the sanctioned amount of Rs 19, 250 crores. By 2015, we will have 50% of the WWR and a three-year training ammunition with us. By 2018-19, we are hopeful that our WWR will go up by 100% and it will enhance our combat power," Gen Singh said. At present, the WWR stands at 40%."


He too was talking about 40I WWR. So you have the combination of the 2016 orders and whatever was placed post 2013.

Won't these make up the (perhaps unnecessary) 40I WWR by 2018-2020?

Any guidance appreciated.

Sethz said...

Prasun, the think the General Atomics MQ-25 holds a lot of promise for both the IAF & the IN. Not only are they bomb trucks, they can double up as surveillance platforms as well as refueling tankers which the IAF has long been in the market for.

I think the MoD should scrap the current procurement for single engine MRCAs and just go for the 90 MQ-25s.

Ishaan said...

Hi Prasun ,

L&T, Dynamatic Technologies , Alpha Tocol and VEM Technologies are manufacturing wings and fuselage sections for the Tejas. HAL is doing the final assembly. If you happen to have those posters which show the participation of these private sector companies in the Tejas programe, will you pls post them in the thread?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: LoLz! That FAKE NEWS you've quoted itself says there is only 'BUZZ'. And why the hell should Vietnam opt for BrahMos-1 when it already possesses the K-300P Bastion system that fires the Yakhont missile? Vietnam also possesses the EXTRA NLOS-BSM imported from Israel. 4) Well, let those clowns continue to waste the Indian taxpayers' money this way & we all will be able to read about it 3 years later in a CAG report, rest assured.

Anonymous said...

I think John (August 18, 2017 at 11:01 AM)was refering to this report...


Kaustav said...

Thanks for your patience with my intemperate and sarcastic comments apropos the LCA evolution and kudos to your undefeated optimistic patriotism & hope for India and it's projects
What gets my goat is our desire to leap frog into revolutionary technologies without having gone through the necessary evolution which would have ensured the necessary techno-industrial ecosystem and expertise! Eg. The LCA itself should have been a development or successor to an indigenous evolution of the Gnat and not a replacement of the Mig21s. The AMCA should have been a MMRCA and a successor to a twin engine strike version of the Marut and not replacements for the Mig27s and Jaguars. We end up having to import most of the required technologies and parts as we lack the infrastructure. The story is repeated everywhere in our govt owned defence research, no progress or follow through on fundamental research innovation or thought. Our social trends reflect the same trend. We follow nothing through and dump things when we are supposed to face those challenges. Are we a country of Ranchods ( running away from the battlefield aka challenges)?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: It was a training manual prepared by the SSG that runs into several pages (too big) & hence cannot be uploaded in this blog.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 2) So where’s the difficulty of doing it? What’s the difficulty? 3) The IN requires Rudras & LCHs, not Apaches. 4) Of course it is impossible to implement such a solution.

To SBM: LoLz! Why on Earth should any launch aircraft be EMP-shielded when the standoff PGM carrying a nuclear warhead will be exploded hundred of km away from the weapons launch-point & be way way way beyond the horizon? Some of the WWR was depleted early this decade primarily due to the need for equipping the two newly-raised Mountain Divisions by digging into the then existing WWR stocks because the then UPA-2 govt was averse to providing the reqd funds for raising the new Divisions. OFB DOES NOT produce all categories of ammo. All 20mm & 30mm ammo for combat aircraft & helicopters are imported, as are rounds for ZSU-23-2, ZSU-23-4 & 2S6 Tunguska. Composites-built barrels for Carl Gustav LAWs are imported. Even the entire range of 155mm is not OFB-produced, only 3 types of rounds are produced by OFB. 125mm APFSDS, HE-AP & Invar anti-helicopter rounds are all imported. 214mm Pinaka rockets cannot be produced for as long as the IMI-supplied TCS guidance kits are not imported due to IMI’s blacklisting. All fuzes are to be supplied by ECIL & imported from South Africa as per the MoD’s mandate. Those private companies supplying fuzes are all reqd to supply them to ECIL whose only job then is to load the explosive capsule inside those fuzes & package it as ECIL-supplied, simply because ECIL & the MoD’s successive Secretaries for Defence Production & Supplies hoodwinked both the successive Defence Secretaries & Defence Ministers into believing that private-sector companies cannot be trusted with industrial explosives (meaning private-sector companies are being accused of being unpatriotic)! And the civilian Lallu-Panjus blindly accepted such illogic!!! You want me to go on to expose more of all such horseshit that keeps on piling up within the MoD in terms of higher defence management & the lack of professionalism among the MoD’s civilian bureaucracy?

To ISHAAN: I have already uploaded ALL the slides that illustrate the industrial activities of all those companies (including L & T) that are involved with the LCA. If you reckon VEM or Dynamatic are also involved, then kindly ask that ‘desi bandalbaaz’ to prove it by uploading suitable photos as material evidence in his blog. This very same ‘desi bandalbaaz’ had once claimed that the DRDO will offer an all-singing-n-dancing BMD network by 2013, & that the 125mm smoothbore barrel of the T-90S had been indigenised by the CAD. How can a Central Ammunition Depot get involved in industrial metallurgy defies all imagination, but apparently this ‘desi bandalbaaz’ believes the CAD possesses Alladin’s Jaadui Chiraag for perpetuating such military-industrial feats! He is also now claiming that in Ladakh, China enjoys an operational and logistic advantage over India without even bothering to explain exactly how & what are those so-called advantages, i.e. he is engaging in needless fearmongering.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KANE: You really want to believe such ‘trash’? Wouldn’t the IN have gone for the turbofan-powered Avengers with higher cruising speeds, instead of opting for the Guardian? Talking/discussing/signing MoUs means ZILCH unless & until contractual negotiations get underway, just as an RFI issuance is just an information-gathering exercise & does not automatically translate into an RFP.

To KAUSTAV: How can any well-meaning fundamental R & D (leave alone path-breaking innovation) ever take place in India when folks like Dr Hargovind Khorana, Dr C V Raman, Dr Meghnad Saha, Dr N Bose or Dr J S Bose don’t even get a mention in India’s Halls of Fame? Was it Hollyood or Bollywood that did the world’s first biopic on Srinivasa Ramanujam? And it is not just the Ranchods, but also those who are suicidal who believe in the adage ‘death before dishonour’ instead of staging an orderly retreat when called for in order to survive so that one lives to fight on for another day. And to make matters worse, we have retards masquerading as pseudo-intellectuals who prefer to live in a world of denial:

Did this retard even bother to ask Hamid Ansari for clarifications on his earlier observations, or did he just ASSUME what he thought was uttered by Ansari & then proceed to unleash his mumbo-jumbo? On one hand, he states that the “Prithvi Sukt of the Atharva Veda proclaims “the earth is our mother and we are her sons (mata bhoomi putroham prithivyah)” & he then immediately distorts the narrative by ASSUMING that this means cultural nationalism. He conveniently forgets that Prithvi Sukt deals with humanity as a whole in global terms (i.e. a globalised state of existence), & is not constrained by territoriality. He just utterly fails to comprehend that cultural nationalism applies to only civilisational states of existence that have had only estimated frontiers (which is what Pandit Chacha Nehru believed in as well & therefore left the boundary in Aksai China undemarcated until 1953, which later proved disastrous), whereas nation-states are those that have clearly demarcated & delineated boundaries (hence India is now only approaching something close to being a nation, & is not yet a full-fledged nation-state) & India, like the rest of the world, has embraced the concept of nation-state as reqd by international law, regardless of whether or not it was a Western creation/construct. Those that chose to exist in a civilisational state by cultivating cultural nationalism simply perished & Tibet is a prime example of our times. Such self-confessed ideologues are certifiable retards whose only passion is to mislead the gullible audience by claiming on one hand that “cultural nationalism is based on spiritual democracy which promotes pluralism” while on the other hand insisting on only 1 native national language being permitted for official usage, i.e. Hindi.

Completing the circle are double-faced retards like these:

To SANJAY SHARMA: Hope you have taken note of this:

sbm said...

That was most - and I mean most - informative and interesting.

But wait a minute, AFAIK, India hasn't fielded a stand-off air-launched nuclear system yet (unless it's a glide bomb).

I am feeling a little ashamed now - I've been mercilessly bashing the OFB but now I see that the problem is deeper.

But what happened to the old ammo stocks - we still have arty shells over 12 years old - only the new stuff goes into the WWR - and training live fire isn't enough to use up huge stocks is it? Disposal of ammo only takes place infrequently. Is this part of the army's stock and what is done with it.

But just want to clarify, after the Rs 19 cr orders from 2013-2014 and the subsequent orders esp in 2016, plus regular production, India would reach 40I WWR in about 2-3 years wouldn't it? (Whether necessary or not).

Pierre Zorin said...

It may be entertainment for some but a country's flag is its pride, identity. When you consider the millions shed their blood to protect that Tricolour I find it extremely offensive and disrespectful to allow antics like that. It's a different story if it were the school's own flag. So here we are a party sloganeering and mixing nationalism with Hinduism and yet think nothing about monkeys unfurling the flag on independence day of all days!
I also find it deeply embarrassing when Indian factories are shown e.g. Ishapore. The very body language, clothing, posture and such poor set up just doesn't gel with the tall claims of India. Look at smaller countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore etc and you will see how developed, clean and organised their workplaces are and how smart the workers look.
You mentioned 7 Bombardier like planes needed- how many are there in the IAF so far?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: There aren’t any air-delivered nuclear warhead-armed munitions as yet—be they gravity bombs, glide bombs or standoff PGMs. The gravity-bomb option was discarded way back in 2004. Live-firing exercises account for less than 5% of all firing exercises every year. The bulk of the firing uses training rounds. All ammo rounds have shelf-lives of only 10 years. Expired ammo stocks earmarked for disposal are transported into one of the 2 LST-Ls of the IN (Magar-class), when then cruises to a deep location in the southern Indian Ocean & there the expired ammo stockpiles are dumped into the ocean. WWR stockpiles will not reach the sanctioned levels before 2022 because 2 more Mountain Divisions are still being raised now. Only 2 of the planned 4 Mtn Divisions were raised in the previous decade.

To PIERRE ZORIN: Well, such antics are meant to prove that even monkeys are evolving to a higher state & are as nationalistic as human beings (LoLz!!!). WRT OFB Ishapore, why the hell is any civilian even allowed to enter a prohibited area & take videoclips? All such facilities clearly have posters both outside & inside saying PHOTOGRAPHY PROHIBITED. And yet this cardinal law & Official Secrets Act are being violated for all the world to see & yet no one takes corrective action to ensure that such liberties are not taken by unauthorised civilians. Only the ARC (owned by NTRO) operates 2 such Bombardier 5000 surveillance platforms. The IAF doesn’t own them, but wants 7 identical platforms under full IAF ownership.

Meanwhile, here’s the OFFICIAL definition by the present-day Govt of India of what exactly constitutes a fully electrified village:

And some delusional ‘bhakts’ still believe that the present-day govt is composed of ‘Farishtaas’ (angels) who can do no wrong & who have all descended straight from the heavens to come to India’s ultimate aid!!!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANON@2.58AM: This is what happens when domain specialists aren’t given the chance to prove their worth. Let’s dissect the 3 main processes.

Incidents: RFP for 7.62mm LMGs was cancelled because it had become a "single-vendor situation" with only the Israeli Weapon Industries (IWI) left in the fray after protracted field trials from December 2015 to February 2017. The MoD in late 2016 also scrapped tender issued in 2010 for 44,618 close-quarter battle carbines, in which too IWI had emerged as "resultant single-vendor" over Italian firm Beretta.

Reality: Firstly, what’s so wrong with a ‘single vendor situation’? Were the T-90S or A-50I PHALCON or Project 1135.6 FFGs or Su-30MKIs all selected after competitive evaluations/field trials? Weren’t they all procured under single-vendor circumstances? Wasn’t the EL/M-2052 AESA-MMR also selected in an identical manner for the Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 platforms? Weren’t the EL/L-8222 & EL/M-2060P pods also selected like this? Weren’t the Russians also selected in the same manner when it came to procuring BrahMos-1, Kh-35, 3M-14E & 3M-54E missiles? Wasn’t the Bombardier Aerospace Global 5000, EMB-145, ERJ-135 Legacy & B.737 BBJ all selected in single-vendor circumstances? So why this fear of single-vendor circumstances now all of a sudden? Can’t international benchmarking practices be adopted to ensure that the commercial offer of IWI is indeed competitive & do not contain inflated cost quotations? Can’t contract negotiations commence first to see how they proceed & if the foreign OEM is seen to be resorting to dirty tricks then & only then the RFP ought to be cancelled? If the MoD’s civilian bureaucracy can’t even master this foundational process to determine the optimum pricing mechanism, then in my view they should all be kicked out for good from the civil services along with their political masters who are in-charge of the MoD.

Incident: Last September, the Army was also forced to re-launch its global hunt for around two lakh new-generation 7.62mm x 51mm assault rifles.
Reality: It ainlt a global hunt at all. The OFB Ishapore-developed Ghaatak SLR has already been selected & its definitive design has already been accepted by the IA, IN & IAF & the ICGS.

Pierre Zorin said...

True India never ceases to amaze

sbm said...

I am given to understand that a stock of 15kT gravity bombs and 100 kiloton fission (not FBF - which are around 250kT) systems weighing 250-300kg are in stock. I assume the latter (100 kiloton fission) are missile warheads.

Wrt ammunition - the Dhanush barrel explosion took place with a 12 year old shell and it is rumoured that the recent hit on the muzzle break was also due to old-stock ammunition being used.

King Kai said...

Prasun da,

VMT for an excellent write up.

I have few doubts..

1.if the success of LCA MK2 is say assured and with 150 F16 also coming, where do you see Rafale numbers finally?

I mean Rafale for IAF and IN? Will it be just 54 or 80 or reach 189+ IN orders?

2. Will our carrier's host LCA MK2 or continue with just Mig29k or RafaleM?

3. Will there be a twin production under make in India for both F16 and Rafale?

4. If we are having a Kaveri (M88-2) for LCA does it not make sense to have more Rafales and use similar armament? Why don't we use RBE2AESA and may be present spectra version (not the next upgardwd version). And design LCA MK2 as a single engine Rafale type bird?

5. Will LM F16s come with any handicap or downgraded items?

6. Most importantly will we get THAAD access now with such close relationships? Any plan to further strengthen our BMD with American systems?

Pls don't mind if you would have earlier explained the same. Honestly would love to hear your views.


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: All gravity bombs with nuclear warheads have been removed from the operational inventory of nuclear WMD stockpiles. The Dhanush accident was NOT caused by expired ammo round, but by faulty charge-bags that were not stored as per laid-down SOPs. All expired-life explosive items are always disposed off without fail & that has always been the case for decades, because expired stockpiles become unstable & threaten the entire ammo storage depot. The new generation of insensitive rounds do away with this handicap even after their shelf-lives have expired.

To KING KAI: 1) Who has ever claimed that the success of LCA-AF Mk.2 is assured? I never said so. All I had stated that project success is probable ONLY IF the steps I’ve outlined above, especially the project management details, are undertaken. It remains to be whether or not they will be undertaken. 2) Neither F-16s nor LCA-AF Mk.2 nor Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 can undertake terrain-hugging deep-strike sorties. Hence, the Rafale is reqd in large numbers, i.e. at least 150 of them. And why is everyone ASSUMING that Rafales will end up with the IN as well? All that the IN did was release 1 RFI for information-gathering & yet why is everyone ASSUMING that procurement of Rafale for the IN is a foregone conclusion? And that too when all work on the IAC-2 CATOBAR aircraft carrier design has been suspended indefinitely? Both INS Vikramaditya & Project 71/IAC-1/Vikrant will host only MiG-29K because the entire flight-deck & MRO bay below have been designed & built SO(LELY for the MiG-29K, Ka-28PL & Ka-31 platforms. The elevators too are designed to accommodate only such platforms & cannot fit in any other aircraft. Neither the LCA (Navy) Mk.2 nor Rafale have folding wings & therefore cannot be accommodated within the flight decks/MRO bays/elevators of the IN’s two airarcft carriers. 3) They are not necessary, since the reqmts are urgent & therefore there will only be final-assembly lines, with kits in semi-knocked-down condition arriving in India for final assembly. 4) Yes it does, but RBE-2 & Spectra were customised for installation on the Rafale’s airframe & hence trying to install them in any other airframe will entail the undertaking of structural modifications for both the airframe & on-board avionics, which is both time-consuming & highly expensive. Rdesigning the entire LCA-AF Mk.2’s airframe to accommodate just two France-origin avionics systems will be cost-prohibitive. Besides, the LCA-AF Mk.2 will have several on-board avionics that will be identical to those already on-board the Sy-30MKI, Jaguar IS/DARIN-3, Mirage-2000N & MiG-29UPG. 5) Not at all. 6) Access will be given, but the IAF has already opted for the S-400.

sbm said...

You know this raises the question - does any branch of the Indian armed forces adhere to SOPs for storage and handling? You remember how badly the R-77s and even the Akash SAMs were stored by the IAF?

Interesting point about gravity bombs. I am a little surprised.

I take it then that the missile fission warheads (100 kiloton fission) are still in service alongside the 250 kiloton FBF?

AVIRAL said...

Here is the vedio of stone pelting incident between ITBP & PLA guards.

ITBP towards right. It seem one of our soldier was critically injured.

Ankit Singh said...

hello prasun da,
It is old but still worth reading, what are your views on it.

Sanjay Sharma said...

Dear prasunji,

1) OUCH! Raj compared to neolithic era. Leave it to prasunji to serve it raw, without mercy or compassion.
Lol!! That being said sir, why would you use such a crushing comparison?? In what ways is rajasthan sooo far behind kerala(apart from literacy)??

2) That being the case sir, what is the secret to kerala's success. If I remember correctly, when India became independent, kerala was one of the least developed states. But made rapid progress thereafter. How?? Was it the commie government?? Or something else.

3) I ask this because kerala GDP per capita is only 3200$. Yet it far exceeds this number in terms of performance as far as improving people's lives are concerned.

4) Taking kerala as the benchmark
how long will it take for bihar and UP to achieve those levels, considering both states are now growing faster than kerala?

5) Also what is the truth behind all the news about political violence in kerala. Is it really descending into chaos? Or is the bjp making it up for political gain?

6) When you said that the dogmatic beliefs that are unfortunately slowly starting to surface in this government are coming from UP, MP, raj & haryana, who exactly are you pointing the finger at?
Is it the rss or vhp or even elements in the bjp itself?

7) Sirji, you said that much of the pain the Islamic community is feeling is self inflicted through those troublesome mullahs. But we still can't ignore the recent upsurge in anti Muslim violence can we? Especially by the gau rakshaks. Even moderate Hindus like myself absolutely abhor those nutcases, I can't imagine what my Muslim brethren will be feeling.

8) Lastly, just a wild question. When the beef ban issue cropped up, there was some twitterati in kerala that brought up the dravidanadu issue. Surely this isn't a big issue there is it? Maybe some one did it for some shock and awe effect. Is there any chance of this going out of control??


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: Now that is an oversimplification, because there have been several cases before when imported weapon systems could not be made adaptable to local environmental conditions, nor wre the foreign OEMs able to provide credible SOP check-lists because their hardware were not certified for operations in those conditions. This has been the case mostly with weapons of Soviet/Russian origin. When it comes to locally-made weapons, the same situation prevails & I had stated several times before that conducting user-trials in the plains or deserts does not mean the weapons will perform equally well in high-altitude or monsoon forest areas. So, unless a comprehensive user-trial protocol isn’t worked out by the end-users, the Indian OEMs cannot be expected to deliver something that hasn’t been specified by the end-user. Thyis ius what happened with the IAF’s Akash-1/Rohini/Rajendra procurements. WRT gravity n-bombs, only after their decommissioning were the Mirage 2000s earmarked for deep mid-life upgrades. Warheads can always be reconfigured for installation on BMs or CMs.

To AVIRAL: It proves the incident occurred well south of Khurnak Fort & in the north bank of Panggong Lake. The PLA’s excuise was that the patrol had lost its way, i.e. faulty navigation. It reminds me of similar clashes that broke out in 1969 between the Soviet KGB Border Guards & PLA Boder Defence Regiment personnel along the Usuri River where there was a disputed island in existence.

To ANIK: Those are country-made IEDs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANKIT SINGH: Broadly speaking, all that the good Professor is saying is that the wings need redesigning, i.e. his desired configuration is identical to what GE Aero Engines had proposed to ADA way back in 1987 (refer to one of the slides above). Secondly, he wants an increase in thrust-to-weight ratio, which can be done in only 2 ways: either reduce the number of components on-board (which is impossible), or acquire higher thrust turbofans (which is what has led us to the LCA-AF Mlk.2). Now to his other observations:

1 After sixteen machines and 2700 sorties is the programme so unsettled that it is difficult to get reasonable dates?---------------------that’s because ADA was mysteriously devoid of jet-powered airborne testbeds for conducting airworthiness certification-related activities for several on-board accessories & avionics. Absence of such testbeds led ADA to make use of existing PV platforms for conducting such tests & this explains the high number of certification/qualification-related flight-hours being logged in so far.

2) Basic empty weight of the LCA was around 5,500kg only to spring a surprise before IOC that the thing was 1.3 Tons overweight!-----------------------This was always to be expected, since the term ‘basic empty weigfht’ is an extremely vague term to use. That’s because ADA completely forgot to factor in extra weight of add-on avionics like the internal ASPJ & other self-protection passive sensors, thanks in part to the delayed issuance of revised ASRs by IAF HQ & this consequently led ADA to grossly miscalculate or underestimate the required thrust-levels of the chosen F404-GE-IN20 turbofan.

3) There are talks of increasing the fuselage length now. This point required pondering long ago, perhaps even as the first layout studies were coming off the printer.-----------------------First layout studies were based entirely on the IAF’s first ASR issued in the latter-half of the 1980s. Subsequently, the IAF had to revise its ASRs twice between then & 2006 to accommodate the extra specified avionics but it was too late by then to redesign the Tejas Mk.1 airframe.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANJAY SHARMA: LoLz! Here are the simple, down-to-earth explanations: 1, 2 & 3) It all boils down to the spread of literacy, which enables the people to become educated & this in turn leads to those people acquiring not only knowledge, but wisdom as well. It is only after climbing those sequential steps that one transforms into a knowledge-based society of the types prevalent in Scandinavia, Europe, Australasia, North America & parts of East Asia. Even Iran may not be able to roll out home-grown MBTs or MRCAs like India, but nowhere in Iran will you witness public-generated filth or public spitting or open defaecation. In other words, the Iranian people are light-years ahead of India in terms of preserving their civilisational legacies, whereas in India folks in general only talk about rich heritage, culture, values, etc etc, but are nowhere near to practicing the do’s & don’t’s that characterise a rich civilisational legacy. 4) It is only education that is the universal equaliser & therefore the more educated the human resources are, the greater the degree of public awareness about one’s individual freedoms, responsibilities & societal/natiional obligations. 5) As I had explained yesterday, whenever any of the political parties in Kerala want to initiate violence or seek revenge through violence, they all outsource such acts to the same local bunch of gangsters. There are no holy cows there & all political parties are implicit in such crimes. 6) I’m referring to all those self-declared ‘protectors’ or ‘ideologues’ who totally distort both facts & philosophy by quoting the man-made practices of various sects & cults, while totally eclipsing the essence of any & every religious theology. Hence nitwits like certain RSS ideologues nowadays have the gall to portray the likes of Swani Vivekananda as belonging to the rightist school of thought, when all he did was think straight & thereby was able to explain the Vedanta philosophy in scientific & logical terms. 7) Violence is never about any religion, but is everything about arousing passions through the phenomenon of RELIGIOSITY in order to make swift economic gains/a fast buck. That & only that explains the spate of mass lootings & vandalism of public/private property whenever organised group violence due to any reason erupts. 8) LoLz! Leave alone Dravidians, even the Aryans in the Vedas had stated that eating horse-meat is sanctified/allowed. So does that mean that just like followers of the Bhakti Cult (who worship Lord Krishna) are against the slaughter of female cows, anyone calling himself/herself a Hindu & who is not a member/follower of the Bhakti Cult can go ahead a open studfarms where tens of millions of horses can reared for the sake of their horse-meat just because the Vedas sanctify the consumption of horse-emat?

sbm said...

Again most informative. Am learning a lot.

WRT the Indian nuclear weapons - what range of yields are currently deployed?

Using published sources - 15 kiloton fission, 100 kiloton fission, 150, 200 250, 300 and 500 kiloton fission boosted fission and 100, 125 and 175 fusion warheads have all been mentioned with Karnad, in a more lucid moment, noting that a 100 kiloton fission weapon with a weight of 200-300kg was ready by the late 1980s.

Your thoughts deeply appreciated.

Any chance of such a warhead finding its way onto the Brahmos (repeatedly suggested by Bharat Karnad)?

Also, Gurmeet Kanwal, in an open conversation indicated that now that the Mirages are in upgrade, the Sukhois are now tasked with the nuclear delivery role.

While I have no doubt as to the veracity of your information, I find myself a tad confused.

Finally, you have outlined a singularly realistic plan for the Tejas Mk.2. ADA wants it to happen - even with compromises to their "control" of the project.

How likely is it that the Tejas Mk.2 will happen? Or even the incorporation of the suggested MAWS & EW system on the Tejas Mk.1A (or any MAWS even a pylon system - though imperfect)?

bobby said...

to prasun , i have few questions ??

1. does the single crystal blade technology developed by DMRL is in house development or offset from al-31 engine blade tech. so we can say its ours.

2. does rd-33 3 series under license production also uses single crystal tech similar to
al-31 ??

3. does HTFE -25 will use single crystal tech blades by DMRL ??

4. did russia transferred same tech to china for al-31 engines ??

Laxman said...

what do you make of this assessment and the question he raises

Laxman said...

Independence Day - Top Pakistani Shia Scholar Recite Indian National Anthem

History of India name --Bharat--.Allama Zameer Akhtar Naqvi

Allama zameer Akhtar: Imam Hussain(a.s) and Indians{Hindus}

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA, Thanks.

China promoting our culture & the fact that the Union Government has so far ignored the issue.
Babus in Delhi have no clue of the existence of the Tanis or other tribes of Arunachal.

Anik said...

OFB has supplied 7.62mm Ishapore sniper rifles to CRPF.It is being used in CT operations in J&K.

Watch @ 9:36. OFB sniper rifle in J&K:

Pierre Zorin said...

"nowhere in Iran will you witness public-generated filth or public spitting or open defaecation. In other words, the Iranian people are light-years ahead of India in terms of preserving their civilisational legacies, whereas in India folks in general only talk about rich heritage, culture, values, etc etc, but are nowhere near to practicing the do’s & don’t’s that characterise a rich civilisational legacy" - couldn't agree more! There is no sense of ownership of the country meaning each individual ought to understand THEY are the owners of the country and each bad decision they make end up affecting the nation as a whole. I love watching train videos but even there you compare a train flying through a dust storm and litters everywhere in India compared to all developed countries. That's what I said about the Ishapore facility. Old, run down and primitive. Probably you will find paan spits on the walls and piss marks on the wall behind, unflushed toilets and wrappers all over.

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
It's always a great learning going through your post. I think if more than 150 Rafales and F16s each in your opinion are going to be inducted the types of aircraft still is a nightmare. Why can't this issue be addressed? I mean we should plan to do with a max. 2 or 3 types instead of so many types. How can we achieve it and when?

How do you rate the 7.62*51mm Ghaatak against the rifles used by PA and PLA?

Black box said...

Hi prasun,
Since lmg tender has been cancelled,cant ofb design a new one like they did the 7.62*51

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: All the write-ups (books & papers) this far about India’s nuclear WMD stockpiles, capabilities, doctrines, command-n-control protocol etc have been written by folks who neither have respect for the laws of physics, nor the powers of visual observation—this despite TELs being shown at various expos in India & folks being present there to explain their employment. So the likes of Bharat Karnad & Raj Chenggappa can afford to speculate & spin yarns to their heart’s content, while Gurmeet Kanwal’s types day-dream about such TELs cruising 24/7 along India’s Golden Quadrilateral national highway network! Now, one just has to talk to NPOM’s designers about the BrahMos-1’s fuel capacity & rate of fuel-burn to determine the BrahMos-1’s range, but even that is an impossibility for the likes of Karnad. So, these morons should be asked why then is India developing the subsonic LACM if the supersonic BrahMos-1 can do the same job. That’s when these ‘arm-chair’ morons will hit a brick wall. Same goes for those who claim that manned combat aircraft are tasked with delivering n-gravity bombs. And none of these folks have ever served with any component of the armed forces that come under the ambit of the Strategic Forces Command & are thus totally clueless about the command-n-control & mechanics of the WMD arsenal.

How likely the LCA-AF Mk.2 will happen? Your guess is as good as mine. All images of pylon-mounted MAWS fitment were first showcased in this blog after their illustrations for the Su-30MKI & Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 upgrade were displayed ONLY AS AN OPTION by ALPHA-TOCOL during Aero India 2015. Till to date, no one has shown any fitment options for MAWS on the LCA-AF Mk.2 or even on the earlier Tejas Mk.1 family. The definitive MAWS fitments for the Su-30MKI were shown by DARE during Aero India 2017 & I had shown them in this blog as well.

To BOBBY: 1) If Russia supplied it, then why is the DMRL trying to re-invent the wheel? Russia only supplied the military-industrial know-how for fabricating blades out of single-crystal superalloy castings. Russia never shared anything about how to produce such castings. Hence DMRL has to develop such superalloys & then figure out ways to produce them on an industrial scale. 2) All present-day turbofans produced in Russia for MRCAs use SCBs. RD-33-3 production hasn’t begun as yet in Koraput, nor will it take off & it is only a licenced-assembly job for a very limited number of RD-33-3s ordered by the IAF for the MiG-29UPGs. 3) No, it uses directionally-solidified blades. 4) Russia never authorised anyone in China to fabricate even a single component of the AL-31F family of turbofans.

To LAXMAN: There will be no resorting to force by China’s PLA either over Doklam, or in Doklam, rest assured, just as the PLA had blinked back in 1986 & had to back off by 1993.

To VED: VMT. Yes, it will be a complicated product-support logistics process for the IAF, but this is now unavoidabkle due to the entire last decade being spent on indecisions, that also resulted in the Tejas Mk.1 MRCA emerging as a sub-optimal solution. So now the only option left on the table is to procure multiple platforms but ensure that they all have a certain degree of equipment commonality in order to lessen the expenditure on fleet product-support. The Ghaatak SLR, when shown equipped with all optional accessories like aiming aids & telescopic sights, will impress everyone—visually & in terms of performance—rest assured.

To BLACK BOX: Of course the ARDE & OFB can co-develop new-generation LMGs, MMGs & HMGs. But someone from the top in the PMO or MoD or Army HQ should step in & provide the necessary guidelines for undertaking such in-house developmental efforts. In my personal view, India’s armed forces must be armed exclusively with all types of small arms & machine guns that have been designed & built in India, period.

Pawan said...

Dear Prasun da,

1. while reading your post and your comments, I am realising that if LCA ever have to deployed in war, its only saving grace against pak aircrafts like of JF-17 would be Israeli Radar & LRAAM. in Dogfight it cannot win at all. in Today SAM/MANPAD infested war zones, it would be sitting duck. All in all it can only be deployed for CAS with Indian holding corps positions where it can function with some level of surety.

2. As we know most of Indian Soldiers on LoC/WB are being targeted by Snipers of Pak. We on other hand can't target them as Dragunov SVD neither have range nor accuracy or Thermal imager sights, needed to hit pak post and soldiers. Is MoD doing anything about it.


Ludwig said...

Thanks for replying sir.
1. What is the movement on DRDO Embraer AEW&CS, 1 has been inducted, what about others? What will be the timeline?
2. In case S-70B naval MRH what could happen next?
3. How many Type 54A will be built by Chinese? And what of Type 52B? How many Frigates China will have by 2030?

Ram Bharadwaj said...


What do make of this news byte? We were going for the SPYDER and QR-SAMS.

Sanjay Mulkikar said...

Dear Prasun,

Can there be an analysis on-

On use of cyber warfare capability to cause confusion, blockage along with use of conventional military assets like BVR missiles with conventional warhead, immediately followed by multi front assault on Northern and Eastern borders, ALGs, forward launch pads by Chinese. There is lot of rethoric and Jingoism from their side but their quest for dominance and hence modernization of their defence cannot be discounted.

buddha said...

National Geographic - American War Generals:

sbm said...

I can't disagree with any point you've raised - although I will say Gurmeet Kanwal is a very nice guy.

But funny enough it ties into your answer to Black Box.

Gurmeet openly says "India can't even design a decent rifle" and over the Akash failures "So much for "Make in India"".

Neither of those viewpoints are accurate or helpful.

Right now, I am sensing that for some - especially in the press - infantry modernization = importing small arms.

A bigger question should be what about modernization of weapons sights - night vision sights, optical and reflex sights?

In a typical infantry section in the Indian army, how many have NVD, NV weapons sights and optical sights?

That, to, would be the single most critical upgrade

soi said...

Hello Prasun Da,
Great article as usual. I Would like to know about your opinion about the following:

1.( What is the need of buying these system or these are just a way to fill up the space of the newspaper by India Today?

2. ( hullabaloo by media on sales of avenger drones to "unnamed foreign nation" and the unanamed customer being India. what are your views regarding the ease with which US would agree sell the same this being a Category-I sales according to MTCR also how will affect the indigenous programme(if at it does)?

3.Lastly, In one of your older threads you mentioned about Indian Army HQ is considering the "Tank-EX" lately, reason being they have come to know about common sense, so is there any progress so far on the same?

Soikot Banerjee

sbm said...

There is another thing that's been puzzling me - besides the scale of issue of NV devices for the infantry - given the fact that all the T-90s and around 1000-1250 T-72s have TIFCS (or even TISAS), why do some analysts say that the India army can't fight at night?

Arpit Kanodia said...

It seems like Ghaatak SLR is confirmed, but what about the other equipments like holographic, red dot, thermal sight etc.

Maybe I am wrong but it seems like BEL made holographic sights is used by Rashtriya Rifles.

Your view on this?

Arpit Kanodia said...

Also your views on this

Air Asia pilot officially filed this incident to DGCA about UFO event.

It seems like this caused massive delays in IGI.

সুমন্ত নাগ said...

Prasun Da, thanks again for such an enlightening blog, hope the things may move for right direction:

however, as annon@10:33 PM 19.08.2017, pointed out

who are ITBP Personnel and who are Chinese in this stone pelting video, are Chinese on right side or left side ? A soldier has been kicked to be fallen in the ground and again stood up, and another critically injured, as it seems ? Did we really respond in appropriate manner, and why Chinese foreign ministry denies the scuffle ?

Thanks in advance.

Devopriyo said...

Hi prasun, are things finally moving in the right direction?

buddha said...

sir considering the constant terrorist attack on europian soil...what will be the outcome..will they take step to curb the radical islam...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PAWAN: 1) That’s right, & that’s precisely the reason why the sub-optimal Tejas Mk.1 & tejas Mk.1As will have to be superceded by the LCA-AF Mk.2. 2) The OFB had developed a 12.7mm AMR/sniper rifle called Vidhwansak but I have not seen it being used anywhere by anyone. The IA continues to use the Denel-supplied NTW-20 AMRs.

BTWS, here’s an update on Gilgit’s residents protesting against forcible land acquisition by the PA:

To LUDWIG: All 3 of them have been handed over to the IAF. 2) No other choice but to upgrade the remaining Sea King Mk.42B NMRHs. 3) About 30 & six, respectively.

To RAM BHARADWAJ: LoLz! Classic yellow journalism. NASAMs being a SHORADS howe the hell can it ever secure any airspace against inbound BMs or any other kind of missile threat? Then there’s the use of the word ‘may’, meaning the ‘desi patrakaar’ was probably invited to a product presentation by Kongsberg or Raytheon on NASAMs & he concocted all the rest in order to inject some ‘masaala’ into the story, but at the same time play it safe by using the word ‘may’. Got it?

The same tactic was used WRT Avenger UCAS fake news. All that the story says, in fact, is that “GA is hoping to see interest from a foreign customer in the Predator C/Avenger”. Now, hoping light-years away from anything like an interest communicated to GA by the IAF in writing. Just look at how long it took from the launch of GSAT-7 till the IN’s firm intent to acquire the Guardian UAS. Will anyone then in his/her right mind even dream about acquiring UCAS platforms without first possessing the telecommunications satellite that is reqd for SATCOM-based flight operations of such UCAS platforms? This proves that the writer of that fake news didn’t have any clue about UCAS-related operations. For him/her it is akin to going shopping in a mall & picking up takeways.

Then we have this type of fake news: “In 2015, India decided to contract for 10 IAI Eitan/Heron TP hunter-killer drones, deliveries of which are expected to begin later this year or early 2018.: Nowe, if this ‘desi patrakaar’ can confidently claim that “it was decided”, then what stops him/her from confirming whether or not a procurement contract was inked? Is it too much to expect from such nitwits? All that they have to do is approach IAI for confirmation, failing which he/she can always seek similar confirmation from either Pratt & Whitney Canada (supplier of the Heron-TP’s PT6-67A engine), or from Hartzell (supplier of the four-bladed propeller). But such ‘desi patrakaars’ will NEVER abide by the rules & regulations of investigative journalism as they are too used to being spoonfed.

Lastly we have this:

This beyond hope-beyond despair moron (writer of the story), had he read all accounts of the Sumdorong Chu/Wangfung Incident that were scanned (from already published books) & uploaded by me in a previous thread, should have known that it was the SSB & IB that first came to know about the PLA’s transgression back in 1986 & they were also constantly reporting back to Delhi all details on OP Falcon & OP Trident & therefore there was no way the then PM would have not known about what was happening there on a daily basis.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANJAY MULKIKAR: China’s offensive cyber-warfare capability is always overstated by clueless idiots, especially inside India. In reality such offensive cyber-warfare capability exists NOT FOR targetting external destinations, but more for containing & eliminating internal China-based threats, i.e. domestic dissent. This beautiful explanation reveals it all:


India’s reply to Xinhua’s 7 Sins video propaganda:

To SBM: Whether or not a guy is socially NICE doesn’t mean he can be intellectually dazzling as well. I have extreme dislike for all those who resort to broad brush-strokes for oversimplifying matters. What is so indecent about the existing INSAS 5.56mm SLR. for instance? Can the indecency be quantified? There are adequate nos & types of night sights available for the entire range of amall arms used by the IA. Neither are all infantry formations reqd to have such sights in any army in this world. Issuance of such aiming aids is determined by the nature of the operation & the terrain of operations. One doesn’t require TIFCS to see through the night. All T-72Ms, T-72CIAs & T-90S have since their deliveries come with active IR searchlights to see at night & acquire targets by night. In fact, those buffoons who claim such tanks to be night-blind are A) totally clueless about armoured warfare, & B) They have a lot of reading to do on such subjects. A good start for them will be the October 1973 Yom Kippur War & how the Syrian T-62s equipped with such active IR searchlights were employed against the Israeli tanks of IDF-Army’s 7th Brigade in the Golan Heights.

To SOI: 1) No one said anything about buying such systems. Even that fake news talks about ‘interest’ & ‘may’, nothing definitive at all & highly speculative stuff—but spectacular fake news. 2) Fake news as well. 3) Never said anything about the IA lately considering Tank EX. The IA had realized by 2004 itself that ‘hybrid design’ MBTs are sub-optimal in performance.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARPIT KANODIA: 1) if you recall, I had uploaded brochures of IRDE-developed & BEL-built sights/aids in the DEFEXPO 2014 threads. 2) It was probably a drone, since the report spoke of a drone-like object, meaning its rotating propellers must have been seen, as opposed to being just a floating object. These China-built DJ Phantom family of VTOL-UAVs are flodding the market almost everywhere nowadays.

To SUMANTA NAG: China is denying it because the video clearly shows that the PLA troops were not listening to their Officer-in-Charge, who was seen holding the Red Banner & was standing behind his subordinate troops. You must note that unlike the IA, the PLA does not have any the system of upholding regimental honour & therefore unit-level discipline/morale remains poor & therefore for this very reason every unit must have a political commissar whose job it is to raise morale/motivation through propaganda & playing martial music. In that video-clip, the political commissar was missing in action & hence the breakdown in that PLA unit’s discipline.

To DEBOPRIYO: LoLz! Yes, they are moving in the right direction but NOT because of the correct reasons, meaning previously, requests for greater financial autonomy within the MoD were always turned down by the MoD’s Integrated Financial Adviser, who was always answerable to the Union MoF & not to the MoD. Now that we have a Union Finance Minister who also doubles up as Defence Minister, clearly he has realised the hard way that the Integrated Financial Adviser always creates artificial barriers by making unreasonable demands, all of which greatly damages the hardware procurement processes & creates needless supply bottlenecks, which only poses headches for the RM. Hence, this Union Finance Minister, who already has enough headaches pertaining to the Union Finance Ministry, clearly is not in the mood for acquiring extra headaches when wearing the RM’s hat & hence his decision to streamline matters between his two ministries. That’s what it is all about.

Railway to Kargil & Leh:

Anonymous said...


Why would PLA blink after so much noise has been made ? PRC would look like a paper tiger after that. Our armed forces have to be prepared for some kind of action:

what about a large scale PGM/cruise missile strike on our positions in Sikkim accompanied by cyber and EW by PLASSF to attempt paralyse C&C ? Lt. Gen. (retd.) H. S. Panag has put forth the possibility of such a scenario, rather than PLA trying to slug it out with IA in a infantry and conventional artillery dominated conflict at high altitude (something they would most probably get a bloody nose in). Other than Brahmos-1, do we have a response to such ``surgcal strikes" from PLA ?


Brown Desi said...

Yet another confirmation of your POV Re the Chinese belligerence and military capability.



Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BROWN DESI: VMT. At last saner voices & pragmatic assessments are emerging, it seems.

To SATYAKI: First, do read what BROWN DESI has weblinked above. Second, you need to understand the Confucian way of thinking. Will the Chinese ever foresake the US$45 billion that they now earn from the Indian market per annum just for the sake of trying to militarily score over India??? If the Chinese mindset functions as per your assumption, then don't you think by now the PLA would have militarily captured the Senkaku Islands from Japan? Think about it.

sbm said...

That was emphatic and true. I got so angry at this constant "INSAS is rubbish" argument that I requested a friend over time to test production rifles with line infantry units - reliability, accuracy, wandering zero etc. The rifles perform pretty well and when fitted with optics, even better. With OFB ammunition, the M4s perform far less well. The new 7.62mm rifle with some refinements - and issued with optical sights as standard - could be quite a weapon.

I saw your display of BEL produced weapons sights - have things like their uncooled TI weapons sight & PNV sights for rifles and LMGs entered bulk production? What would quantum of production be by now approximately? I know they are marketing them heavily and I notice a lot of their NVDs with the NSG but other than 55,000 odd NVDs to the army what has been supplied to the infantry in this regard?

One question puzzles me above all - why doesn't the OFB produce 125mm APFSDS rounds for the T-72 anymore or for the T-90? How come they do it for the Arjun (ok never meeting production targets but...)? It seems kind of odd.

You know how the Su-30MKI is 73% indigenous by component but only 56% by value, what are the comparable figures for Chinas J-11 and J-15s? They seem to import a lot of stuff from Russia for them, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for every single answer you've provided. I learn so much.

Laxman said...

You view on this,

1. "Beijing’s trick in calling for renegotiating the 1890 Convention implies ‘equal’ treaties signed with the Tibetans, particularly Simla Convention and border agreement defining the McMahon Line in 1914 be scrapped. India would then have no more border with Tibet in the North East."

2. "Her aim of invading and capturing Doka La is not only to capture the strategic high ground close to the Siliguri Corridor but also to control the Teesta River emanating from there."

3. "..since China is insisting that India has intruded into Chinese territory at Doka La, it would have no compunctions in intruding into Indian territory. PLA has been making incursions into Barahoti area of Chamoli district, Uttarakhand, the Chinese ambassador met with the District Magistrate of Darjeeling and China has also been making deep intrusions in the Depsang Plains of Ladakh.

In conjunction with its protégé Pakistan, China is also eyeing the Siachen Glacier as it is both the largest fresh water reserve in the area and is also adjacent to the Shaksgam Valley (which is illegally occupied by China). China's attempt to capture the area would be a major offensive and would invite a violent reaction from India.

But if China can successfully sneak in and occupy land which threatens the maintenance route to the northern and central glaciers on the Saltoro Mountains, or high ground overlooking the base camp from the east, China could perhaps save face and negotiate on Doka La.

The area south and southwest of the Karakoram Pass (which is only patrolled) provides them with precisely such an opportunity. This would no doubt be a difficult operation but didn’t India occupy the virgin Saltoro Mountains? Its feasibility and options need to be taken into account, including this being executed in the thick of winter for maximum surprise."

Brown Desi said...

Interesting read; as to why there exists a permanent separatist feeling in the Kashmir valley even in the comments of the CM:


Brown Desi

Pierre Zorin said...

It seems from what you said, "desi patrakaars" use the same tactics as alternative medicines...I buy a lot but after reading health manuals not product label. These products have labels that invariably say "may help...." because of a lack of clinical evidence. These same "wealth of knowledge " (read fake) journos probably also believe in the theory every woman that smiles at them are interested in them (for an unforgettable bed room experience). My advice, be careful because if like Mr Trump you try and grab women by their p****** often you might find a scrotum instead (despite the appearance of a woman) ha ha ha ha

Pierre Zorin said...

I just read a report that apparently the AAC wanted 11 Apaches but they got 6 instead as MoF objected to duplicating assets. I have browsed major, developed militaries such as the UK, Australia and the US - attack helicopters are operated by their AAC not Air Forces. Why the IAF wants to change this norm who knows. However, that opens up a new argument - the guys at MoF obviously have NO idea about the purpose of the attack helicopters because the way IAF wants to use and the way AAC wants to use are different. Therefore on this ground the assets are not duplicated and the AAC ought to have their quota. But overall they do have a point- if the IAF did want to use the attack helos, why not make the total number 30 and share 15 each? I am not sure about the numbers required but given the hostile neighbourhood, IA AAC would need in excess of 350 helicopters of that 25% ought to be Apaches, 40% LCH and 35% gunships. Then they ought to have equal number of multi role, utility and transport/casevac ones. So overall I have a feeling the IA AAC ought to run with 800 helicopters at least given the total need. What do you reckon?

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,

Can you share some info. regarding the Sniper rifle developed by RFI Ishapore.

The EOI for Sniper rifle issued by OFB recently was for 8.6mm. Is it something an entirely new Sniper rifle?

Technology, Photograpy and Travel said...

dada, any status information on Chabahar

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

According to this article Bhutan is drifting towards China.

Best Regards

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: Procurement of NVDs is a never-ending process & it all depends on the pace of introduction of new technological innovations & hence such devices have been flowing in since 2002 itself. So when folks spea about shortages, they are referring only to the latest Gen-3 NVDs. It therefore doesn’t mean the Gen-2.5 or Gen-2 NVDs are next-to-useless. The 125mm APFSDS rounds that were to be produced by OFB were never developed as mature products by the DRDO. The RHA penetration capability & projectile velocity parameters of DRDO-developed 125mm rounds has yet to reach the figures of the APFSDS rounds originating from Russia or Israel. So far, only the projectiles developed for the 120mm rifled-bore cannon have achieved the performance parameters set by the IA. How can the Su-30MKI be 73% indigenous content when all the reqd metals are coming from Russia, with only moulding, machining & riveting being done by HAL? Only J-11As were licence-produced (with all metallic castings for only the airframe & not of the AL-31F being supplied by Russia) & all the rest of the versions like J-11B & J-15 were unauthorised clones (using surplus-stock AL-31F engines umported from Ukraine) that cannot enter operational service, as per the written commitments given by China to Russia about honouring & not violating Russia’s IPRs. It was only after China surrendered to such Russian pre-conditions that the 24-unit Su-35 procurement contract was inked.

To LAXMAN: Rest assured that there is now ZERO (0) possibility/probability of any PLA unit ‘intruding’ or ‘sneaking’ into India-controlled territory anywhere, either in Ladakh or Arunachal Pradesh. The surveillance grids in both areas is multi-layered & that’s how the pre-dawn attempt by the PLA to intrude into the Finger-4 area was neutralised so quickly. Furthermore, the IA’s T-72CIAs, BMP-2s, field artillery regiments & the Rudra helicopter-gunships have since 2015 been practicing hunter-killer combined arms warfare tactics all along the Depsang Bulge & the IA’s T-72M1s & BMP-2s have been in that area since the late 1980s—a huge & commanding headstart over the PLA when it comes to high-altitude armoured warfare. Hence, all those who are conjuring up scenarios about the PLA trying to capture Doka la or eastern Ladakh are nothing else but arm-chair nitwits who have never even set foot in such areas & therefore have ZERO understanding of the concept of defence-in-depth in high-altiitude mountainous terrain.

To RAJ; That's not what the article conveys. On one hand it reveals that there are some who are scared stiff about China & want to make short-term gains by capitulating to Beijing. On the other, the great majority still harbour great fears about China as trading with Beijing will reduce Bhutan to a vassal state just like Laos & Cambodia are today. It is all summed up by this comment: Sonaem said some Bhutanese supported China out of fear. “They will finish us if we get closer to them. China is a nasty country and we don’t want it to be here in any form. India controls Bhutan, but it will never invade us,” he said. As I spent more time in Bhutan, I realised that people like Sonaem could be in the minority.

To VED: All data & posters on the sniper rifle was uploaded in the DEFEXPO 2016 thread. 8.6mm sniper rifle is for SF0Para) units. For use along the LoC, what's reqd are 12.7mm sniper rifles.

Anonymous said...


1) How many Rudra helicopter gunships are in service with IA ?

2) Are these equipped with Anti-tank missiles ? If so, which ?

3) The only thing PLA could do seems to be large scale cruise missile strikes along with cyber warfare to delay a response. The lack of the Nirbhay on our side is a lacuna.


jasss gill said...

VMT SIR, I searched dozens of blogs before TRISHUL you have great knowledge no one provides knowledge like you, all they just like lallu. what's the status of upgrading L 60, L 70, ZSU-23-4, Tunguska and ZU-23-2. thnx again


Prasun da,
Do you agree with former MI then RAW officer Col. RSN Singh regarding Col. Purohit's case??

Pradun da,

Do you agree with former MI and RAW officer Col. RSN Singh regarding Col. Purohit's Case?

ANKUR said...

Hi Prasun,

1. This is an important piece as to why companies, individuals in India do not speak out against Political Parties. Netas will create fake criminal cases against those who raise their voice against them. Please share your thoughts.

2. Col Purohit was granted bail in the Malegaon blast case after 8 years. Do you think Col Purohit was clean & was simply a victim of vendatta politics ?


bhoutik said...

fourth major accident involving the US Navy this year — and all were in Asia-Pacific

possible reasons prasun bhai?

soi said...

Thanks Prasun Da for the reply, still I would like to add some more questions:

1.You mentioned that 118 Arjun Mk1a are under induction over earlier existing 124 Arjun Mk1s, further HNS based lighter Arjun Mk2(118 Nos) will be ordered later, so had the army assured to order or it will again continue to keep on spinning yarn of new requirements and again delay the project?

2.This will be silly one, What is the Visual Difference between Arjun Mk1 and Mk1a or Mk1a and Mk2, as I couldn't find any designation named "Arjun Mk1a" only Mk1 or Mk2 could be seen.

Thanks again,
Soikot Banerjee

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SATYAKI: 1) More than 40. 2) They are being armed with HELINA as of now. 3) Ground-launched/air-launched LACM strikes by the PLA are ruled out as subsonic LACMs are inbeffective at high-altitudes, while for India that isn’t a problem at all due to possession of supersonic BrahMos-1 Block-3.

To JASSS GILL: VMT. L-60 wasn’t upgraded. Only L-70 was & all data on it Aas well as on upgraded ZSU-23-4 are in the Aero India 2013 & 2015 threads. Tunguska & ZU-23-2 haven’t been upgraded.

To AVIRAL SI(NGH: All that I can state is that Lt Col Purohit was an MI officer on an IA-sanctioned mission & he did nothing that wasn’t known to his superiors. It was the UPA-1/2 govt that made him the fall guy for which folks like P Chidambaram, R P N Singh (the husband of Sonia Singh of NDTV), Sushil Kumar Shinde, G K Pillai & R K Singh (former Union Home Secretaries) all ought to be held accountable now by the trial court.

To ANKUR: 1) LoLz! Every day & night the politicians of India are being taken to the dry-cleaners & how can anyone ever claim that no Indian speaks out is just beyond me. But yes, cases on trumped-up charges are very much possible because the law-enforcement agencies are not independent by any stretch of imagination. The day the State Police Forces are made to come under the ambit of the Supreme Court-sanctioned Police Reforms, while the CBI & NIA are made accountable to Parliament & are made independent of the Govt of India’s ministries, only from that day onwards will true justice be done & be seen to be done. 2) What Lt Col Purohit was subjected to was nothing but a total travesty of justice. No accused should be denied a trial for such a long period of time. Maybe several of the present-day netas should be made to undergo the same nighjtmares as those endured by Lt Col Purohit so that they can get a much better understanding about the abuse of the criminal justice system of India.

To BHOUTIK: Possible reasons? 1) Hectic operational tours for extended periods & 2) Human negligence due to either fatigue or deficient vocational proficiency.

To SOIKOT BANERJEE: 1) Yes, the IA has confirmed that it will operate a total of 3 Arjun MBT Regiments. 2) MK.1 does not have ERA tiles or RCWS, while Mk.1A does. There won’t be any external differences between Mk.1A & Mk.2 except that the former has rifled-bore cannon while the latter will have 120mm smoothbore cannon. Internally, the DRDO refers to the Mk1A as the one with 120mm rifled bore cannon & the hull/turret made of RHA, whereas the lighter Mk.2 will have 120mm smoothbore cannon & hull/turret will be built with HNS.

sbm said...

The issue that is that is raised by this article:

Is given the stated HAL production contract of 222, the direct delivery of 50 and the loss of 8, the Su-30MKI force is (from what has been released by HAL and MoD) going to be around 260 in the next 3 years.

Yet, there have been persistent rumours that the total IAF Su-30MKI fleet will exceed 300. Where are those orders? Were contracts signed and when will deliveries commence?

Also, could not - ok admittedly not ideal - additional Su-30MKIs be procured to tide over depleting squadron strength pending new single and twin engine aircraft procurement?

The Su-30MKI quantum saga, I confess, has me thoroughly confused.

On an unrelated note, if it is the case that 16 squadrons (roughly half) of the S-125 Pechoras are to be upgraded, what additional capability will these have?
I mean, the Pechora is decidedly an old system with a modest flight and engagement envelope.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: Just because additional orders haven't been placed as yet doesn't mean they never will. The contracts are being negotiated & concern the Super Su-30MKIs, the first tranche of which will come from IRKUT Corp off-the-shelf. What will be upgraded will be the S-125 Pechora's fire-control electronics, i.e. from analogue to digital that will result in much decreased errors of processing/calculation & far higher reliability/availability.

Excellent observations by former Foreign Secretary/NSA Shivshankar Menon:

anupam said...

The lca is becoming an enigma more than a fighter aircraft . I have been following the lca news for last 10-12 years. Any positive news raises my hopes and then the inevitable happens. My interest in lca particular is not because of my educational or professional backgroud but rather an Indian who wants to celebrate a piece of engineering which the world appreciate.
I am in 40 and not young anymore and now not very sure if we will see a world class fighter which is made in India. Its a real shame that we simply cannot get this done, not because lot of money was invested and lost but we lost a engineering project which would have inspired millions.

sbm said...

Oh! So wait, the Super 30 will be:

1) New build aircraft from Irkut

2) Upgrade of existing fleet?

Will any be made by HAL?

h. mandal said...

prasun da,

long time blog reader and have been enlightend by ur intensive knowledge of defense. can u answer some queries that rookies like me have?

does tejas have cofnormal stealth antena from cobham? satcom and uhf? any progess on isro satcom uhf?

pls share the specs of tejas fleet networking capabilty sir ji. and what is status of tejas fibre optics commnunications protocol?

""Like the F-35, the Block 60 F-16 has a built in FLIR/laser targeting system rather than using a dedicated pod that would occupy a hardpoint, increase drag and RCS.""

will this be on mk2 tejas?


h mandal

sbm said...

Is there any reason why the entire force of 30 sqn of Pechoras isn't being upgrades? After all, India's SAM defences are not exactly dense right now - 8 OSA-AK-M, 3 Spyder, 8 Akash and maybe 24 Pechora squadrons right now? Maybe another 7 Akash and 9 MRSAM on order?

Gd said...

Hi Prasoon,
Trump going to send more troops in Afghanistan. Pak generals must be rubbing their hands in glee. There going to a killing.... Financial as well as literal.

Soikot Banerjee said...

( are your views on the same? How should be the manpower and machinery be utilised as they can't be ignored especially at a time when airforce needs more fighter jets.
Soikot Banerjee

Devopriyo said...

Hi Prasun, your thoughts on this? (If true...difficult to distinguish real news to fake news now a days)

jasss gill said...

VMT SIR, I am surprised really IA have 40 RUDRA with HELINA missiles ?

Alok Mehta said...

Prashn, Trump's recent speech on AF Pak must be music to all readers of this blog- it was as if it was a neat summary of all aspects you have discussed during last few months! Also the choice of words was very neat by Trump the master persuader!Your thoughts please ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANUPAM: Investments are reqd to raise the quality of one’s human resources. If the investments are channeled solely for the purposes of empire-building as was the case with the DRDO since the mid-1980s, then all one gets are a bunch of Solitarire-proficient techies who know next-to-nothing about weaponised airborne platforms. And thus the end-result is nothing else but a sub-optimal warfighting machine. Had the then PM Rajiv Gandhi heeded the IAF’s advice instead of being led by the nose by the DRDO’s then top technocrats, matters would have ended up a helluva better state.

To SBM: The 1st tranche of Super Su-30MKIs will come directly from Russia/IRKUT Corp. Only after this will the existing Su-30MKIs start being upgraded locally. Only those S-125 Pechora SAM Sqns with appreciable service lives still left in them will be upgraded.

To H MANDAL: 1) No it does not. 2) UHF radio, yes, but why the need for SATCOM? 3) Tejas does not use fibre-optics. 4) Your guess is as good as mine.

To GD: And yet the PA’s top-brass continue to exists in a world of denial & self-righteousness, as witnessed during the DG-ISPR’s press-conference yesterday:

They are still quite happy to portray Kulbhushan Jadhav as the source of all the ills of Pakistan! So it’s time to bang their heads with a hammer & then start teaching them how to play the piano!

To SOIKOT BANERJEE: The mid-life upgrade from Su-30MKI to Super Su-30MKI will keep HAL Nashik quite busy, rest assured. In addition, the aircraft’s airframe has a TTSL of only 3,000 hours & hence the first Su-30MKI to reach this figure will be subjected to fatigue tests by NAL for evolving an airframe life-extension programme (similar to what was done for the IAF’s MiG-29B-12s), following which the Su-30MKI’s airframe will be re-certified with an extended TTSL. In addition, the Super Su-30MKIs will also have new-build/higher thrust AL-41F turbofans, replacing the existing AL-31FPs. This what the ‘desi’ bandalbaazes )like the one stringing for BUSINESS STANDARD) can’t figure out & hence they ALWAYS ASSUME on one hand that Russia-origin combat aircraft airframes have 6,000-hour TTSL from the outset, while on the other they ASSUME that West-built turbofans have only 2,000-hour service lives, when in reality it is the Russia-supplied turbofans that have such low TTSLs!

To DEVOPRIYO: It is absolutely correct, but not just in Darjeeling, but especially in KALIMPONG & not just in Nepali, but also Tibetan language chatter was intercepted & that’s what my OP NIREEKSHAN was all about in mid-June. But more about that later as matters are still being followed up.

To ALOK MEHTA: Here’s the complete speech:

So now, matters have been finalised for 2018 & all that is now reqd is for the pre-choreographed & orchestrated ballet to commence all along the LoC & well into PoK all the way to Mangla.

Ankit Singh said...

Why is NAL still a different entity?
Why not merge it with HAL?

Ishaan said...

Sir, All these talks about the Super Sukhoi, but when is the deal going to be signed with UAC and Sukhoi ? There have been talks about the upgrade since 2012 but nothing concrete has happened so far .

And sir you have been to MAKS 2017. There are rumours that the new IRST of Su-57 features QWIP- quantum wave imaging photodetector technology which offers better angular resolution,range and sensitivity over the legacy band gap detector technology based IRST. Is this true ?

This is from a friend.He attended a Drdo expo in Chennai last month.

According to the ADA guy manning the stall :

1)Tejas MK1,1a,2,naval Tejas will all see service
2)Kaveri will be fitted (retrofitted) in all varients....engine mounts of mk2 s made to accommodate Kaveri despite diff in size with f414
3)5 f414 engines has arrived
4)3rd naval prototype is being built by using Ada/hal funds n not navy's, engine testing of prototype in Dec....ADA has budgeted for even naval LSP (this show how serious they are)
5) Navy has indicated interest for atleast 50 naval tejas
....this is what the ADA guy had to say, he was tight lipped initially but loosened up later.....naval Tejas timeline was bolt out of blue for me given the news swirling around in this forum reg it's demise...when I asked the guy reg naval chief comments he said navy doesn't want to pay and wanted others to shoulder cost n thats just for internal consumption n not policy setting.

ANKUR said...

Hi Prasun,

1. Thanks. But you may have noticed that politicians, industralists, Bollywood stars are rarely arrested & even if they are they will be relaeased within a few days.However, regular Joes are harrased by the system. Take the salman Khan episode, Mumbai police at the behest of netas deliberately destroyed evidence that could have nailed him.

2. In the video related to Shiv Shankar Menon he does not state why India did not invade Pakistan post 26/11. Will you please state why India did not invade Pakistan?


Anonymous said...

well trump acknowledges the Ind effort in afgan nation building process but how can he ask us to help it economically we dont big pockets like Saudi or china?

"So now, matters have been finalised for 2018 & all that is now reqd is for the pre-choreographed & orchestrated ballet to commence all along the LoC & well into PoK all the way to Mangla."

can u explain this airland campaign?


Anonymous said...

what are USA options if PA unilaterally shut downs its Karachi port for ISAF troops? what will be the consequences PA faces? how can Ind step in moves these troops through Iran while relations btw Iran n US are all time low n Iran is threatening to come out of nuclear deal?


Black box said...

Hi prasun,
Regarding t-90 MBT are there plans to procure newer(ms tagil) version of it . Regarding existing t-90 upgrade is it finalized when will they start? What's the upgrade package details ? Thanks

financeblogger said...

Mr. Prasun, request your opinion on the following article

Pratap said...

Prasun da, i think we are getting too excited about Trump speech. We have seen warnings from Washington in the past but they were never followed by action. This speech was different as its the first time a US President has called out Pakistan publicly. However it remains to be seen what action will US take in the future if Pakistan doesn't change its course. Frankly i believe Trump's tough talk is just rhetoric. We must wait and watch and act accordingly.

soi said...

Thanks Prasun da for the clarification.

In a thread earlier this year( you mentioned that there are chances of newly developed HAL-BAE combat hawk being considered as option for CAS aircraft ,
(as replied to VED "If the Combat Hawk option is not being thought of by the MoD, what then explains why HAL, a MoD-owned company, is investing the Indian taxpayer’s money on developing the Combat Hawk? ") but there were news regarding IAF not much intersted in the same, how much is this story true?

And can we expect Combat Hawk procurements in future?

If not are there any provisions to update the current Hawks to the Combat hawk versions?

Soikot Banerjee

buddha said...

Heard the speech of potus three times.
At first it sound similar like the before presidents..But the paradigm shift is that they no longer care to impose democracy ...Rather keep the existing theory and institution of ruling of the land ...
2nd somewhere potus wants India to use her financial assistance to continuein rebuilding Afghanistan.
Third it directs puts pressure on Pakistan doing not enough in exchange of billions of dolar aid.and also hinted the Osama being found in Pakistan .Pak being an ally to America ..
So new sort of strategy is seen without hinting time line of entry and exist ..90s seen col powel's strategy of rapid thrust with clear objective ...And its effect seen successfully in 1st gulf war ..
Does USA desire to shift a major reform of of war tactics...
With my limited understanding I caught up these points ...
Ur valued opinion is highly solicited sir..

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANKIT SINGH: NAL is an independent entity supposed to be doing fundamental research on aerodynamics & its facilities are open on an equal footing to all—DPSUs & private-sector companies. There is thus no need for it to be part of any industrial entity. But when NAL tries to get its hands dirty with work that HAL is supposed to do (like developing the Saras), it ends up with spectacular failures because these are jobs meant for engineers, & not scientists.

To ISHAAN: At the MAKs-2017 expo the UAC officials clearly stated that industrial work on the Super Su-30MKI will begin within 90 days. The switchover from Gallium-Nitrate to Gallium=Nitride has opened up several new arenas for developing new-generation avionics & IRSTs are no exception. As for the ADA staffer’s spectacularly outrageous rants, he comes out as someone not from this planet. Perhaps a conversation on Solitaire would have been more productive!

To ANKUR: 1) That’s because money does all the talking & hence witnesses can always turn hostile. And the courts can deliver verdicts only on the basis of the material evidence that’s presented. The regular Joe does not have the resources reqd to buy over the witnesses & turn them hostile. 2) He did not say anything about it because he wrote about it in his book (surprisingly he got his book published from the US-based Brookings Institution, as if there are no book publishers in India!) & he wants his book to sell. In reality, 26/11 & even the earlier 1993 Mumbai bomb-blasts should have been reason enough for India to take a tough no-nonsense stand & become highly aggressive all along the LoC, at least after 1999. But when it came to the crunch, it seems the previous generation of ruling Indian politicians all of a sudden developed diplomatic fatigue & this in turn led them to slow-down the force modernisation efforts of India’s armed forces by taking only ad-hoc measures, instead of preparing a proper military-technical/military-industrial roadmap that would have not only strengthened India’s armed forces and the country’s coercive power, but would also have led to very high levels of job creation. This kind of visionary approach is lacking even today.

Unknown said...

"Excellent observations by former Foreign Secretary/NSA Shivshankar Menon:"

Thank you so much for this.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RON: He was referring to India’s humanitarian assistance & India’s assistance in helping rebuild the Afghan economy, i.e. what India has been doing since 2002, & also shouldering the bill for training ANA personnel in Indian military institutions. In return, the US has started subsidising the Indian economy by suppling India with cheap crude oil & LNG shipments directly from the US west coast. 2017 AirLand campaign was explained several times before in several earlier threads. US can always make use of the Central Asian air corridor to ferry in military supplies into Afghanistan. Another option is to outsource the supply of perishable commodities to India under which India will supply such items via Chabahar into Afghanistan.

To BLACK BOX: There are no plans now to import the T-90MS. T-90S upgrade package has already been finalised (already explained in the previous thread) & it includes a more powerful diesel engine from Russia, new-generation anti-helicopter projectile from Russia, new-generation ERA tiles imported from Russia, Indian engine cooling system & APU, plus a laser warning suite & APS suite from the SaabTech/TATA Power SED JV that was shown at DEFEXPO 2016. The BEL-developed RCWS too could be included.

To PRATAP: In case you missed it, drone strikes inside Pakistan were resumed immediately after Trump became President & the intensity of such strikes will only increase manifold in the time ahead & not only along the Durand Line, but also within PoK & Chitral, where the training plus rest-in-recuperation sanctuaries of the Afghan Taliban, LeT & JeM are located. Last year itself, the US got extremely pissed off with Pakistan when Indonesia shared evidence with the US about the LeT’s terror-funding activities inside Indonesia & that was the reason why the US sanctioned all affiliated charity bodies of the LeT & Pakistan in turn had no other option but to place Hafiz Saeed under house-arrest. Sadly the ‘desi’ patrakaars have not even bothered to go into the details of such matters & they go unreported by the Indian media houses.

To SOIKOT BANERJEE: The Combat Hawk in its full avatar is unlikely to materialise because now the Govt of India has firmed up its decision to procure single-engined MRCAs from abroad, but large elements of the Combat Hawk project will be adopted by both the IAF & IN, like the new-generation cockpit, HOTAS controls & light armament. In wartime, experience has proved that such small-sized aircraft are extremely useful for identifying/localising ground targets over hilly terrain, while their small-size & manoeuvrability makes them difficult to targetted by ground-based AAA. In 1971 too the Vampire aircraft were used by the IAF rather successfully in such roles over Jammu’s Poonch district, acting as fast forward observation aircraft that made the job of IAF Su-7BM strike aircraft much easier.

soi said...

( naval choppers tender, your views on possible domestic/foreign contenders?

Soikot Banerjee

Anonymous said...

You said: "Another option is to outsource the supply of perishable commodities to India under which India will supply such items via Chabahar into Afghanistan."

If Afghans can fly water melons from Kandahar to India, surely US should be able to fly baked beans & supplies from India (say Gujarat) to Afghanistan (after the shipment arrives at one of the Indian ports). Couple of daily flights of C17 should be more than sufficient! Why go the circuitous route of Chabahar?

Given that most of the heavy equipment is already transported to Afghanistan, the only requirement for resupply of ammunition, maintenance/spare parts etc could also be easily supplied via air.

Using Chabahar might put US in an awkward position. Over zealous journalists will love to poke at it asking "What is America's Iran policy?" Especially given Trump's hawkish stance on Iran!


Laxman said...

Trump said: "Pakistan and India are two nuclear-armed states whose tense relations threaten to spiral into conflict. And that could happen."
What do you make of it?

sbm said...

A question if I may - how is India's ADGES/ BADZ radar replacement program going? Are the Elta-2082 ADAR replacing the THD-1955 as yet? What of the other radars? What has been acquired so far to cover the medium & high-power radar categories? Any guidance deeply appreciated. I was re-reading your IACCS article back in 2012 and wondered how far things had come since then.

Abhinav said...

Prasun Da,

Navy already has options available for 111 NUHs like Ka226T & HAL LUH..Then Why have they issued global RFI?

Pierre Zorin said...

Army 2017 - Looking at this IA could have a good trolley full esp the ambulance and the airborne IFV. How is there no takers in the IA or CAPF?

rad said...

hi prasun
will the naval utility heli be the ALH with fold able blades or something else.

why are the fools in charge of the anti sub helos dithering in spite of the imminent danger of Chinese subs?

again they have cancelled he Negev LMG program not caring for the soldiers fate .If there is a law that single vendor is left and we know that it is the best why not go ahead . After all the laws were made and can be changed.why can the defence minister give a go ahead in spite of the idiotic self defeating law.?

what will be the repercussion if we take out Hafiz saeed and the like with a brahmos strike?

will there be enough money for the pakfa fighter after this huge rafale deal for the next 36 fighters?

you said china has agreed to stop production of clones of the su 27 . How are the russians going to check on it and what will they do, once the Chinese get their local
engine ready??

why have pilatus refused to support the pc-7 s? when we decided for the HTT 40?

what is your take on the HTT 40?

again what is the confusion over the honeywell engines for the jaguars?, Is report that the auto pilot not working correct?

are the russian ERA tile better than the indian ones to be fitted on the arjun?

The MSMC seems good in the video posted by sandeep unithan, what are the sticking points?

Pierre Zorin said...

A very good short doco on U2 spy plane
Imagine if ADA suddenly decides to invent" this!

aritro data said...

Is india getting the scalp missile with the rafales??

Anup said...


Two frigates of 11356 project to be finalized for Indian Navy

Is this true?

Pawan said...

Dear Prasun da,

In wake of Trump admin's new afghan policy, do you think India would now oblige ANA with 105mm field guns, some T-55 and may be Rudra gunships?

As Pak may resist US pressure to fall line, do you see any behind the scene understanding for India to barrage in PoK and establish direct land link with Afghanistan while put stress on Pak Economy by sanctions.


Kaustav said...

So Prasunda, is it again the time of the season for you to sit back with a snug smirk of satisfaction on having being right on the mark about Afghanistan Pakistan and China in one stroke.?

I mean, is it the Bhavishya Puraan that you are tripping on or more likely Common Sense combined with Clear insight and great exposure....Kudos sirjee

jasss gill said...

sir you are right ( as usual always) only two 11356 projects to be finalized for indian navy.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SOIKOT BANERJEE: Here are the original RFI:

The NUH is reqd to be twin-engined, i.e. that rules out the single-engined LUH. But the ALH does qualify now since Lockheed Martin/Sikorsky had assisted HAL in mastering folding-blade mechanisms. But then, if the ALH is locally produced & its IPRs are HAL-owned, then why float global RFIs asking for solution s from foreign OEMs? That sounds totally crazy to me. Potential responders can therefore only be Airbus Military & AgustaWestland Helicopters from Europe & Bell Helicopter Textron from the US.

The NUH version of the ALH can easily be proposed PROVIDED 1) HAL comes up with an underbelly or rear-mounted conformal fuel tank solution for increased endurance, 2) a nose-mounted AESA-MMR fitment with 360-degree coverage (which can easily be provided by IAI/ELTA). The FLIR turret can be the same existing COMPASS coming from ELBIT Systems or the HALBIT JV. 20mm Gunpod can come from NEXTER Systems for anti-piracy missions. The ASCM will have to be lightweight with a range of no more than 20nm.

The NMRH is reqd to have a weight of less than 12.5 tons & therefore the contenders will once again be AgustaWestland Helicopters with the AW-149, Airbus Military with the NH-90 & Lockheed Martin/Sikorsky with either the S-70B Seahawk or the CH-148 Cyclone. For the ASCM reqmt, the Kongsberg HSM will be an ideal choice, since Russia-origin ASCMs cannot be integrated now with Western platforms. HAL’s proposed NMRH is out of the competition since this NMRH will take at least 7 years to be developed (provided any foreign OEM is willing to help HAL) as an airworthy flying machine, while weaponisation will take another 3 years at least.

Then there are some totally crazy queries in the RFIs:

Can the INS-GPS be based on Ring Laser Gyroscope (RLG) or Fibre Optic based system? All manned airborne platforms use RLG-INS. FOG-INS is used only by tactical PGMs.

Can the ELT be provided? In reality, ELT should be MANDATORY/COMPULSORY for ALL manned aircraft of all 3 armed services. It can no longer be an optional accessory.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SCRUTATOR: 1) What if Pakistan denies permission for transit flights involving military cargo consignments? How can you even compare commercial air-cargo flights with military cargo flights? And why should use of Iranian real-estate & land transportation infrastruicture for transit shipment of perishable commodities not be feasible when the Iranians themselves have been clamouring since the 1990s for the purchase of Boeing-made commercial air transportation aircraft? Such practical deals are always worked out behind-the-scenes & the Iranians will be last ones to permit any over-zealous journalist to acquire any material evidence from Iranian soil about such shipments, rest assured.

To LAXMAN: What I make of it is what POTUS left unsaid, i.e. he has had enough of Pakistan’ nuclear sabre-rattling & he wants to terminate this problem once & for all & that’s why he also spoke about rthe possibility of Pakistan’s nuclear WMDs falling into the wrong hands (which is a physical absurdity in real life), meaning Pakistan as a state cannot ever be trusted with the safe custody of nuclear WMDs & must therefore be de-nuclearised.

To SBM: The EL/M-2082 ADAR option was discarded some time back in favour of aerostat-mounted EL/M-2083s. THD-1955s were NEVER used for air-defence, but were instead used for military air-traffic management & they are being steadily replaced by BEL-assembled ATCR-33/SIR radar combination from Leonardo Group/Selex. MPR radars are the EL/M-2084 & its local avatar, the Arudhra. As for HPRs, no new accretions so far & they are not reqd nowadays because the air-threat is from low-flying MRCAs that HPRs cannot detect in any case. HPRs today are used primarily for BMEWS-related operations.

To ABHINAV: You will understand it after reading the RFIs, which I’ve weblinked above. How can the Ka-226T ever be acquired for India’s armed forces when Russia’s armed forces themselves have not acquired it?

To RAD: Because dithering has long become a way-of-life & old habits die hard. How can one know for sure where Hafiz Saeed is located at any given time? Su-47 FGFA’s procurement is not on the cards for now either in Russia or in India. Its developmental; cycle will take at least another 5 years to be completed. China is still decades away from fielding a mature turbofan for its combat aircraft. If China backstabs Russia the next time then the Ruskies will impose all kinds of economic embargoes on China, rest assured. Pilatus is provided all reqd product-support for PC-7 Mk.2s of the IAF. Russia-origin ERA tiles are of a newer generation compared to India-origin ERA tiles.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...


To PAWAN: Of course. Even before POTUS’ statement, India was already supplying spares for T-55s to ANA. When it comes to sanctions, all that the US now has to do is sanction some of the state-owned banks of China & all flows of funds for CPEC will come to a standstill. Because China is not funding the BRI with its own currency (which has no use for Pakistan & it will be issued only as toilet tissue-paper), but with US$ & therefore the US has the final say in declaring whether or not China’s US$ savings in its various state-owned banks are legal tender or not. Many do not understand such financial intricacies & therefore ASSUME (just like the idiotic Pakistanis) that a China-Pakistan-Russia-Turkey axis can offset the US. On top of all this, whenever Pakistan goes for IMF bailouts, stringent conditions can be imposed on Islamabad WRT spending of such loans by Pakistan. So all this bombastic talk by Pakistanis about not needing any more financial assistance is just nonsensical hot-air for domestic consumption. There’s no need for India to ‘barge-into’ PoK. Instead, it will be a pre-choreographed & optimally orchestrated AirLand campaign that will be successfully conducted ov er a period of no more than 10 days, at the end of which the IA will be at the doorsteps of Mangla & Chicken’s Neck area too will be captured, & if Pakistanm dares use its TNWs in that area, then Sialkot, Dasca, Gujrat etc etc will be obliterated from Pakistan’s map forever.

And do watch this: Capture of Chorbat La:

To KAUSTAV: Well, I don’t really deserve such plaudits because the writing was always there on the wall & all that one had to do was to make sense of it. The best analysis WRT AfPak has come out here:

And as for the China front, here’s the best observation to date:

“The abiding India-China hostility is only partly explained by a jostling for strategic space between powerful neighbours—also relevant is the usually downplayed factor of ideological competition between two antithetical political systems. “Democracy” is the most hated word in the lexicon of the Chinese state. The threat to China from a rising India is not military. It is from the demonstration effect of a successful democracy which could prove potentially destabilising to a totalitarian system under visible signs of strain.

Rajesh Mishra said...

The Lodhi Dynasty and Shershah Suri came from Afghanistan with their armies to help India. So why now the Indian armies can not go to Afghanistan to help them in like manners.

Anonymous said...

" Iranians will be last ones to permit any over-zealous journalist to acquire any material evidence from Iranian soil about such shipments, rest assured."

Sounds like a new "Iran Contra" scandal in the making to me :-)

But definitely there'll be nothing more satisfying than to see the look on the Pakistani faces, when India will use Chabahar, Iran's land transportation and India built roads in Afghanistan to ship American goods to Soldiers who'll raid Pakistani towns while hunting down the Taliban! All of this after Pakistan thinks it but a kibosh on the US plans!! :-)


sbm said...

Thanks. Were any more Aerostat radars ordered beyond the 2 procured some time ago?

WRT the M-2084/ Arudhra - were 34 total acquired or 34 each?

Finally, wrt HPRs and BMEWS - does India have any such radars other than the 2 Green Pine systems?

Sparco said...

"There’s no need for India to ‘barge-into’ PoK. Instead, it will be a pre-choreographed & optimally orchestrated AirLand campaign that will be successfully conducted ov er a period of no more than 10 days, at the end of which the IA will be at the doorsteps of Mangla & Chicken’s Neck area too will be captured, & if Pakistanm dares use its TNWs in that area, then Sialkot, Dasca, Gujrat etc etc will be obliterated from Pakistan’s map forever."
Is this even position in this decade or the next?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Lion of Ladakh/Capture of Chorbat La:

Yet another Indian response to Xinhua's 7-Sins Parody:

Real Quantum of US Aid Given to Pakistan:

Pakistan’s Rising Circular Debt:

Epic Financial Mismanagement in Pakistan's Water & Power Ministry Surfaces:

Russian Special Forces Eliminating Terrorists In Syria:

Active Protection Systems Survey:

Mukti--a short film on 1971 war:

Sri Lanka gets first Tamil military leader in 50 years:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SCRUTATOR: The following talk-shows illustrate the acute anxities being felt insidx Pakistan after the POTUS' policy declaration on AfPak:

To SBM: No. The reqmt was/is for between 18 & 24 aerostat-mounted radars. EL/M-2084 orders were for 34 units. Arudhras to be ordered have yet to be quantified in terms of firm orders. The Green Pine radars are LRTRs for target engagement, not exactly BMEWS-type radars.

To SPARCO: Date of commencement will be sometime next year. Hence the extra urgency being shown by India for reploenishing its WWR stockpiles.

sbm said...

Thanks again. So are there any BMEWS radars in India? Were any more than 2 Green Pines or equivalent delivered to India? Isn't the Swordfish just a version of it? WRT aerostats, how far along to meeting the requirement has India come? I've heard everything from no more than 2 to 13 more being ordered. Any clarity greatly appreciated.


" "




Devopriyo said...

Hi Prasun,

A new axis seems to be emerging. Your views pls

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: Has anyone in India so far--DRDO included--ever stated that India possesses any terrestrial BMEWS sensors? Not to the best of my knowledge. Has the DRDO ever stated that any terrestrial radar by the name of Swordfish LRTR exists? Not to the best of my knowledge. The only LRTR built in India so far is the S-band shipborne version for tracking inbound 'desi' MIRVs, & ISRO's MOTR. Only 2 EL/M-2083s were ordered & delivered. No more orders have been placed as yet.

To AMIT BISWAS & DEVOPRIYO: That is the typical delusional mumbo-jumbo that emanates nowadays from Russia ever since April 2014. If Russia & China are so concerned about Pakistan's stability, then let them lend their Roubles & Yuans to keep Pakistan stay afloat & see what Pakistan does with them. I'm pretty sure Pakistan will use such currencies only as toilet tissue-paper. Until the currencies of Russia & China replace the US$, Euro & Japanese Yen as the globally dominant currencies, they both will remain only paper tigers with no real bite. If the Afghan govt itself has welcomed the new policy guidelines of POTUS, then who the hell are Moscow & Beijing to protest? Do the Afghans know what's best for them, or do the Chinese & Ruskies know better? The Ruskies are therefore at best taking potshots at the US through their inconsequential soundbytes. And it is only the myopic/self-deluding Pakistanis who believe in forging an axis comprising themselves, the Ruskies, Chinese, the Turks & the Iranians. How can this even be possible when the Turks are the ones providing political asylum to all the Uighur separatists who ran away from Xinjiang & have since organized themselves politically into the East Turkestan Independence Movement in Ankara? Similarly, most of the Chechan & Dagestani separatists are in self-imposed exile in Turkey. If one looks at the big picture, it is not about Afghanistan at all, but rather this has to do everything with the eventuial denuclearisation of Pakistan. Without this happening, the entire Middle East & Central Asia will continue to live in turmoil. Shia Iran will never accept a nuclear WMD-armed Sunni Pakistan & it will therefore continue to nurture desires for acquiring its own nuclear WMD deterrent, while this in turn will lead to a highly insecure Sunni-dominated Arabian peninsula. The only solution to all this, therefore, is the denuclearisation of Pakistan. Only this will give enough incentioves for Iran to adhere to the NPT & scale down the size of its ballistic missile arsenals.

abs said...

Prasun Da,
In one the discussions of ex-NSA Menon linked here earlier, he goes on to flag the concern that many of the ports where the Chinese have made investments, could turn out to be economically unviable, which then could be used to for direct military applications. To that effect he also says that Gwadar is a Naval Military Port.
What are your views on this?

abs said...

//If one looks at the big picture, it is not about Afghanistan at all, but rather this has to do everything with the eventuial denuclearisation of Pakistan. Without this happening, the entire Middle East & Central Asia will continue to live in turmoil. Shia Iran will never accept a nuclear WMD-armed Sunni Pakistan & it will therefore continue to nurture desires for acquiring its own nuclear WMD deterrent, while this in turn will lead to a highly insecure Sunni-dominated Arabian peninsula. The only solution to all this, therefore, is the denuclearisation of Pakistan. Only this will give enough incentioves for Iran to adhere to the NPT & scale down the size of its ballistic missile arsenals.

Also, what about Saudi Arabia landing nuclear missiles as you had stated quite some time back in a secret arrangement with India-Israel-US? Would Shia Iran be open to a Sunni Saudi Arabia possessing Nukes? Frankly, this could prove to be disastrous, where Islam could use the Nuclear umbrella, to spread it's tentacles deeper.

sbm said...

So the question is were any more Green Pines ordered beyond the two?

sbm said...

"The ''Swordfish is an acknowledged derivative of the Israeli Green Pine long range radar, which is the critical component of that country's Arrow missile defence system."

VK Saraswat interview:

"We have a Long Range Tracking Radar (LRTR) used in the Ballistic Missile Defence Programme that has a range of over 600km."

This one takes the cake though:

"The latest range of radars being designed will be an upgraded version of LRTR, already developed by DRDO in collaboration with Israel, which are capable of detecting very small targets in the 600-800 km range and can spot objects as small as a cricket ball. The Indian defence stable already includes the likes of Swordfish, which has a range of 600 km, and more popular ones like Rohini and Revathi. The DRDO plans to upgrade the capacity of Swordfish to 1,500 km by 2011."

soi said...

1.( tone of these paper changes four time in two months (Seems like AC current), your opinion on the same?

2.You mentioned HELINA missile in in use, when did this happen and why was no noise heard about it, whereas when COAS said attack choppers are w/o ATGM whole media went berserk, why was this kept under wraps?

3.Could we see HTT-40 in IAF someday, Is the so called 106 figure contract signed or even assured by the IAF?

4.Do we have any RADAR programme(if it's public at all) exist which are based on VHF/UHF which are some weak areas for a stealth fighter?

Soikot Banerjee

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
Do you have any update on INS Aridaman. Various media sources are claiming that it will be launched in a week or two.

Which missile will the Aridaman be equipped with? K15 or K4/5?

Please also update on the power of nuclear reactor on board INS Aridaman. Will it be same as INS Arihant? Further are there any size and design changes with respect to INS Arihant?

AVIRAL said...

Pakistan army behind 2014 APS Massacre where 144 students were killed: Ex SSG commondo who later joined TTP.

INS Aridhman to be launched in next 6-8 weeks:

DM Arun Jaitley to inaugurate LCH production line on Saturday:

One question: When will HeliNa enter production?

Suvo said...

Glimmer-man is again right.

Now watch this:

F said...


Correct me if I'm wrong but is it correct to say that towed array and hull mounted sonars are intended to complement each other [based on range and other factors] and that it'll be very rare for any ship to have a towed array but not a hull mounted sonar?

What is your personal opinion on the Israeli approach to ''heavy'' APCs like the Namer and Achzarit? Assuming cash and the weight of such vehicles wasn't an issue; isn't this - on paper - the most logical approach to having ''survivable'' APCs?

Following the order of 4 LMS by Malaysia from China; do you foresee Malaysia placing any big ticket orders in the coming years? Will Chinese companies eventually grab a large slice of the Malaysian market from the European companies that have traditionally had a monopoly in this area?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: There are no ‘naval ports’. There are only naval bases & dual-use ports, the latter being one where warships can only refuel & pick-up perishable reloads. No weapons loading or reloading is possible in such ports & therefore Gwadar doesn’t qualify as a naval base. The PN itself has stated that its 2nd largest naval base after Karachi will be in Ormara. Perhaps the ex-NSA ought to start browsing through the PN’s official website for starters to update his information database. Kingdom of Saudi Aeabia does not possess any nuclear warheads in its territory. Only BMs are available to it. The warheads are of Israel-make & are stored in Israel & they have been pledged to KSA.

To SBM: I had already stated several times before that only 2 EL/M-2080 Green Pines were ordered & delivered. In those 2 weblinked news-reports, no DRDO official is QUOTED as saying that there exists a radar named Swordfish. Hence, a news-reporter’s assumption about a radar named Swordfish being in existence cannot be accepted as the gospel truth. Nor is there any DRDO publication stating that a radar called Swordfish exists. In the 2nd report, what is mentioned is this: “We have a Long Range Tracking Radar (LRTR) used in the Ballistic Missile Defence Programme that has a range of over 600km. We will increase the range to 1,400km allowing us to track satellites in orbit.”-----------------here reference is made to only 1 LRTR, hgence the use of ‘a LRTR’. This refers to the S-band shipborne APAR that is derived from the MOTR of ISRO that tracks space debris. The ET news-report of 2009 vintage talks about 7-8 LRTRs, when in fact as of today orders for only 2 have been placed & deliveries have concluded, i.e. the MOTR & the shipborne APAR.

To SOIKOT BANERJEE: 1) That’s called ‘rehashing’ of old news. 2) HELINA is in use by Rudra helicopter-gunships. The COAS’ remarks concerned the LCH, not the Rudra. 3) Let’s see if the IAF can bear the cost of operating two different types of basic jet trainers. 4) None.

To VED & AVIRAL: Don’t put any faith in such erroneous news-reports. I had stated in 2012 itself that the S-3 & S-4 SSBNs will be IDENTICAL to the S-2 SSBN SIMPLY BECAUSE when orders are placed for such submarine hull-modules, they are always ordered in one-go & no one in the world has so far placed orders for single-unit submarines of a brand-new design simply because it is financially unaffordable. If the US & Russia can’t afford such luxuries, then do you reckon India can? Hence, the S-2/Arihant/S-73, S-3 & S-4 will be identical in terms of content, dimensions & capabilities. I had also stated that it will take 30% less time to build the S-3 (compared to the time taken to build the S-2/Arihant/S-73), while S-4 will be built in 30% lesser time than the time taken to build the S-3. In other words, the time taken to build the S-4 will be 60% lesser than the time taken to build the S-2/Arihant--lead boat, with the time-reductions being due to the proportional increase in hull fabrication skills/proficiency of L & T’s workforce as time goes by. I had also stated earlier this year that S-3’s rollout was expected by this October. HELINA is already under series-production for the Rudra helicopter-gunship.

sbm said...

Not arguing with you at all - just proving that no DRDO official ever mentioned it as Swordfish. Agree entirely.

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