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Saturday, May 19, 2012

CMP-2012 Released By US DoD


Anonymous said...

will russia deliver only 8 sukhois in skd/ckd condition annually ?
in this way it wud take a long time (9yrs) to get the 72 aircraft i.e till 2021..i thougth the sukhoi project was to complete by 2018..
all 272 aircraft..
2) u said the indian army has 4000+ far as i know the IA has 60 armoured regiments..each having 60 tanks in 4 squadrons each..where are the balance 400+ ?
3) acc to u 2000 SP howitzers with 600 upgunned m-46s & 290 lw 155 wud suffice for india..but this is only enuf for arnd 150 arty regiments ?
what will the rest 50 or so arty regiments use ? upgunned bofors ?
4) what abt the rocket arty..what is plan for pinaka induction..
are 80 pinakas 62 smerchs enuf..?
5)i heard there r only 38 smerchs & not 62 as widely believed..12 each for the 3 strike corps & 2 for parades..where r the rest ?
6) can u plzz tell why on earth the indian army doesn't hv para qualified armoured regiments..not even 1?
& why does the whole para brigade has only 1 engineer & signal company each? is it enuf..does it mean out of 60 engineer regiments only 1 company is para qualified ?

KSingh said...

Prasun, can you tell me where are we at with regards to P-8, C-130 and PHALCON follow on orders?

And what about the IAF's heavy lift helo program? When will we see the Ch-47F winning that deal?


Anurag said...

@Prasun da,
I forgot to ask one more question.
Actually you had told me before that AAD
can't be turned into an anti aircraft missile
since its terminal g loading is just 8g,I got
What I wanted to ask this time was,
Whether it would be possible for DRDO to
develop a long range SAM 'based on' techs of
AAD like the RLG-INS,active
seeker,propellant,engine etc??I mean the
SAM would be different than AAD but based
on its techs with similar range,altitude and
speed but a much greater terminal g
loading.So,do you think that might be viable
option to check if the situation demands for
a long range anti aircraft missile??
THANX in advance....................................

KSK said...

If we illustrate the same for India the picture will have 10 more arms

Arch Anjel said...

Sir,in the previous thread you had stated that Swordfish and LRTR are to different systems.
Can you kindly describe what is LRTR and its specifications like possible target tracking range,intended role etc?
Is there any project by DRDO to develop DIRCM system for helicopters?
And lastly,don't you think that going for Leopard 2A5 would have been a more logical option than downgraded T 90s?Or atleast IA could have negociateded for T 90A instead of T 90S-no?

Anonymous said...

sir you are saying that "nobody in india is developing guided artillery shells although you were earlier you were saying that arde with imi is developing 155mm gps guided shells and laser guided 120mm mortar....

if they are developing such guided rounds then plz give more info on this....

are there any updates on sudarshan lgb ??

will there be any gps/glonass guided variants of this ??

can this guidance kit be used on the other weight bombs as well ??

are there any updates on the tejas mk2 mrca ??

u had that the fcr wud be chosen by last year end....but nothing has happened till now...

how can they roll out tejas mk2 by 2013 when some major systems havn't been finalised ??

you said tejas mk2 might carry conformal fuel tanks....any updates on this ??

i have heard that the tejas mk2 will be having new and larger internal fuel tanks.....which suggests more internal fuel....if yes then how much internal fuel mk2 will have ??

Anonymous said...

For persons interested here's the complete report from which PSG posted extracts

Unknown said...

Prasun, Shiv Aroor is reporting the IA is already disappointed with the Arjun Mk.II and they are in favour of killing off the entire Arjun program in favour of FMBT and T-90MS. Is there any truth to this as it seems to go against everything we have heard ie the IA is very happy with the Arjun Mk.I and the Mk.II did well in trails last summer and IA were satisfied.

Anonymous said...

Why is the army dead against arjun? I thought arjun had fared well in comparative trials against T90..Killing off such an ambitious project is ridiculous...why not replace the 2000 useless T55s and T72s with arjun instead of killing it...Why cant T90 and Arjun both 4000+ tanks? the army is instead harping on FMBT which would go into production only after 2025..

Anonymous said...

Look for the army the Arjun has more foreign material than the T-90x series. Fact. Also it costs far more, it is slower, it has 120mm rather than 125--> think logistics (nightmare), it appears to be less reliable, quality control is an issue, and above all it is just as easy for PA to kill it as is T-90x. So why bother?

Anonymous said...

Hi PRASUN, I asked u about infrared countermeasures in the previous thread. Very very thanx for answering . But u didn' t answer some of the ques. Pls answer.
1.1. U said, "No IIR seeker with FPA can ‘see’ its target. It can only sense the target’s presence by computing the heat signature of the target relative to the surrounding environment.". But isnt it the mechanism behind the normal IR seeker.According to wiki,"Very modern heat-seeking missiles utilise imaging infrared (IIR), where the IR/UV sensor is a focal plane array which is able to "see" in infra-red, much like the CCD in a digital camera." Pls clarify about this.

Most importantly pls reply to these:
2. Most modern IR guided AAM and MANPADs have IR seekers employing dual filters-UV and IR. Even iff flares can succesfully jam, saturate the IR filter, then the missile will still be able to home in on the target using the UV filter? How does flares tackel this? can the crtidges bought from IMI provide protection against this type of missiles.
3. U told that our airforce bought flare cartridges from IMI that can neutralize IIR seeker equipped current gen missiles. What I want to know is are they really found to neutralize IIR seekers in the field or it has been proved on paper and pencil? HAS THE FLARECARTIDGES.
BEEN FIELD TESTED? I am saying so because every where on the net I have read that IIR seekers are virtually resistant to flares and can only be defeated by DIRCM.
4. Also has the tactic of dropping flares in clusters ti defeat IRCCM in IR guided missiles been field tested?
Pls reply.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

So China can practically reach the whole globe except for Argentina and Chile. There also it can reach through SLBMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KSingh: The follow-on four P-8Is have yet to be ordered, as is the case with the follow-on six C-130J-30s, which will be based at Panagarh. The two follow-on A-50I PHALCONs were ordered last year itself. It is fairly obvious by now that the CH-47F will be ordered along with AH-64D LongBow Apaches.

To ANURAG: Theoretically, everything is possible, but the question to be asked is: is it practicable. For instance, just because China wants to protect itself with LR-SAMs against bombers like the B-52 & B-1B doesn’t mean that India too should follow suit.

To Arch Anjel: The LRTR is the EL/M-2080 Green Pine radar. You can download the brochure from the IAI website. Bo DIRCM is being developed by the DRDO for any airborne platform. My personal view is that all the money spent on T-90S procurements could have been better spent on acquiring more Arjun MBTs & on upgrading the T-72M1 MBTs.

To Anon@10.05AM: ARDE was at one time toying with the idea of developing 155mm projectiles using IMI’s TCM, but this project has since been shelved. Instead, workj is now underway on studying options for GPS-guided projectiles & MBRL rockets containing sensor-fuzed munitions. But for tll this to be effective, the IRNSS constellation needs to be operationalised before even test-firing of GPS-guided rounds commences. Read this:
The Sudarshan LGB kit can be installed on different kinds of gravity bombs. But the kit needs some more fine-tuning, work on which is now underway. There are no further updates on the Tejas Mk2. Everything now depends on the ADA’s ability to redesign the air intakes and on HAL’s ability to fabricate them. Without this critical modification, everything else becomes secondary.

To Anon@11.12AM: VMT.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Unknown & Anon@10.52PM & Mr.RA 13: The previous week was really witness to some hilarious exploits by the ‘desi’ defence correspondents/strategic analysts, who scaled down to new depths of inglorious reportage. The first was BROADSWORD who ranted about the FGFA’s non-existing deficiencies, and this was followed by LIVEFIST reproducing art work on the Nirbhay ALCM, which for all intents and purposes was a blatant copy of the design of Japan’s TACOM multi-role UAV developed by Japan’s TRDI & built by Fuji Heavy Industries. And now, to top it all, comes a discredited report on the so-called Arjun Mk2 MBT’s unviable future. Well, for the truly discerning, the fundamental flaws are there in the report itself. But for the layman, let’s dissect them in greater detail.
Firstly, the current series of trials now underway are NOT user-trials (which are associated with new-build hardware for which at least a bare minimum of six prototypes are reqd), but Accelerated Usage-Cum-Reliability Trials (AUCRT) involving only two prototypes of the upgraded & modified Arjun Mk1A MBT. These trials are similar to the AUCRT carried out in 5 phases on two Arjun Mk1s from November 2007 to August 2008 covering more than 8,000km of mobility trials and 800 rounds of firing by each MBT. AUCRT is required to be undertaken mandatorily by the Army HQ’s MGO for calculating the through-life product support reqmts of any new-build MBT, besides evaluation of the MBT’s operational reliability. Each phase of AUCRT comprises a 1,000km mobility run over diverse terrain, and firepower trials to authenticate the Barrel Effective Full Charge (EFC) matrix (involving approximately 160 rounds of APFSDS and HESH over a temperature range of -5 to 50 degrees Celsius). For the T-90S MBT or any other imported MBT which is already in service in any other country, & for which the through-life product support reqmts have already been quantified by both the OEM & existing operators (like the Russian Army in case of the T-90S), AUCRT is not conducted as there’s no need for it. However, in case of a new-build homegrown MBT like the Arjun, AUCRT is mandatory since only then can the designer (CVRDE) & the OEM (OFB’s HVF in Avadi) work together with the end-user (the Army’s represented by the MGO) to certify the Arjun as an operationally ready weapons platform. Consequently, the OFB/HVF & CVRDE are then contractually bound to extend performance guarantees & product-support for only a three-year period, following which all product-support reqmts become the MGO’s responsibility. That is why, this present series of trials involves only two Arjun Mk1A prototypes, since only upgrades & modifications are being put through their paces, & the entire design viability of the MBT is not being questioned.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Continued from above….
Secondly, the user-trials mentioned by LIVEFIST, don’t concern the Arjun Mk1A at all, but rather the Arjun Mk2, since this version of the MBT has radical design modifications to its silhouette, vectronics & most importantly, the all-new 1,500hp powerplant from Cummins India. Initial user-trials of the Arjun Mk2 commenced last year & will last till 2016. The confusion has arisen because LIVEFIST has been unable to distinguish between the Arjun Mk1A & Arjun Mk2, and has consequently ended up mixing the evaluation parameters of two different MBT development projects.
Thirdly, the T-90MS is being treated by Army HQ as an upgrade offer for the first 310 T-90S MBTs that were bought, and which are now due for mid-life overhaul-cum-upgrade. There are no plans to procure new-build T-90MS MBTs since even the Russian Army doesn’t want it. Therefore, the sole T-90MS shown on static display at DEFEXPO 2012 went straight back to Russia after the expo & was not subjected yo any in-country mobility/firepower demonstrations, which would not have been the case if the Indian Army urgently wanted to procure this MBT off-the-shelf.
Fourthly, the focus is now on the FMBT & what will it be. Now, be it the Ukrainians, the Russian, or the Indians, everyone agrees on two fundamental points: the FMBT will be HEAVIER than all existing MBTs & will consequently require a 1,800hp powerpack; and the FMBT will have to be armed with a heavier smoothbore cannon, most probably a 140mm barrel diameter. This is what has emerged after my detailed discussions with MBT designers & operators from India, France, Russia & Ukraine during DEFEXPO 2012. And that’s the reason why the Indian Army isn’t buying anyone’s argument about the need for the FMBT to weigh 50 tonnes & be powered by a 1,500hp engine. Instead, it has focussed on what’s achievable in the short- & medium-terms, i.e. Arjun Mk1A & Arjun Mk2. If the ARDE & TBRL can develop a smoothbore 140mm cannon & the CVRDE can develop a 1,800hp powerpack by 2020, then an Indian FMBT project can be regarded as viable and doable. As of now, the DRDO hasn’t been able to come up with any viable answers/solutions, except for the Arjun Mk1A & Mk2, & that’s why the Army HQ is sticking to only these two—Mk1A & Mk2—for a committed new-built MBT procurement programme.
Lastly, while it is true that Rosoboronexport was in Delhi last March to talk to the MoD, the talks were NOT about the T-90MS or additional T-90S licenced-production, but about the prospects of Rosoboronexport State Corp and Ekaterinberg-based Uraltransmash co-developing with the DRDO a tracked SPH that combines the hull of the T-90S MBT with a turret containing a 155mm/52-cal barrel jointly developed by BAE Systems/Bofors AB and Volgograd-based Barrikady State Production Association. It may be recalled that this package was originally conceived in 1996 as a joint programme between VSEL (now owned by BAE Systems) & Uraltransmash, & involved the VSEL-designed AS-90 turret, which was integrated with a T-72M hull & was extensively test-fired in India at that time, way before the advent of Bhim SPH.
This is what you get to know when engaging in serious deliberations at events like DEFEXPO 2012, instead of ranting about such expos being the most boring & uneventful ever!!!

Anonymous said...

while diesel electric propulsion is popular with locomotives, why don't MBTs like Arjun use it?

Anonymous said...

Regarding Airforce:
Dear Prasun, Selection of 500 MICA missiles by IAF brings refurbished Mirage 2000 on almost at par with Rafales. With RDY 3 radar upgrade and MICA missiles, indian Mirages will be feared and respected.
Can you bring some more info regarding the Upgraded M2K ...

Regarding Indian Navy:
Will 750 KM range sagarika be deployed on Arihant class subs and by when. What next after sagarika?

Anonymous said...

Sir, earlier in one of your articles you said that fmbt will be of 50 ton cat..., now you are saying it will be heavier than existing mbt.So which of the following is true?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Thanx for the clarifications on latest mode of Arjun and AUCRT.

So much confusion has been prevailing about Arjun that following formulae shall be written on the top of every such article:

Arjun Mk1 (1400) >> Arjun Mk1A (1400)with small modifications >> Arjun Mk2 (1500) >> FMBT (1800->60T)

Anonymous said...

By when can we expect the prototype to fly ?
By wat time do we require these?

what could be the unit price?
how many will be bought?

the showpiece has HUMVEEs in them

Anonymous said...

Hi, I was playing Battlefield bad company 2. The whole plot of the game revolves around a scalar weapon or EMP weapon. Such a weapon is very devastating . It can be called a low cost ecofriendly non fatal alternative to nuclear weapon. Such a weapon can kill virtually every electronic circuit ( except those which are EMP hardened) and thus bring the armed forces of our country to it's knees. Aircrafts, fighter jets, C3 facility , radar sites, missiles & anything with a circuit will become inoperable and junk pieces of metal. Such a weapon is a poor man's atomic weapon. It is ideal for countries facing a numerically and technically adversary. Can u pls tell the proliferation of such weapons among our adversaries?Does the MoD and the tri services giving well needed attention to this EMP based weapons .And has the MoD and IA, IAF , IN taking any steps and preparing themselves for facing such a scenario . Also is the DRDO evolving technologies which can be incorporated into our country's military machines ti make them invulnerable.

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

what rebuttal would u provide to Broadsword mentioning:

"Indian designers say the FGFA project will provide invaluable experience in testing and certifying a heavy fighter aircraft that is bigger and more complex than the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), India’s foundational aerospace achievement.

Our boys will learn the Russian language; their way of working; their design rules; their design norms

But the most valuable learning, say HAL executives, will happen during the FGFA’s flight-testing. “Unlike the basic design phase, which we missed out on, we will actually gain experience during flight testing. This phase throws up dozens of problems and we will participate in resolving these, including through design changes.”

“We will pay some $6-7 billion to France for the licence to build the Rafale in HAL. In the FGFA project, a similar sum will bring in genuine design knowledge that will help us in the future.”

KSingh said...

Prasun, how many of the IAF's 300 SU-30MKIs will eventually be upgraded to the SUPER SU-30MKI standard?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@4.53PM: Already wrote about the upgraded Mirage 2000s last year. Sagarika isn’t the name of any missile, but the name of the DRDO Project Office responsible for developing SLBMs.

To Anmon@7.10PM: That’s what the DRDO said, not me. I have on the other hand consistently said that trying to develop a 50-tonne FMBT is an impossibility & a pipedream, since no one else in the world is trying to attempt such a feat. On the contrary, the weight of MBTs is steadily growing to breach the 70-tonne mark. This in turn will require 1,800hp powerpacks at the very least.

To Mr.RA 13: VMT.

To Anon@9.09PM: By 2016. The rest remains unknown.

To Anon@11.17PM: BROADSWORD is merely parroting what was told to him by HAL. Each of those assertions are false. For instance, HAL will acquire invaluable experience in only testing & certifying the FGFA, but not any experience in the FGFA’s designing. The same goes for developing the FGFA’s flight control logic/laws. Therefore, in comparison with the Tejas’ R & D programme, HAL will learn a lot less than what the ADA has learnt. In other words, HAL will try to use the FGFA programme to learn all that the ADA has already learnt. It’s just another wasteful turf war and will create duplication of effort that could eventually kill ADA’s AMCA project.

To KSingh: A quarter of the Su-30MKI fleet will be upgraded to Super Su-30MKI standard. The rest will have selective upgrades in areas like installation of integrated self-defence suite & the MIRES AESA-MMR.

Anonymous said...

"Therefore, in comparison with the Tejas’ R & D programme, HAL will learn a lot less than what the ADA has learnt. In other words, HAL will try to use the FGFA programme to learn all that the ADA has already learnt. It’s just another wasteful turf war and will create duplication of effort that could eventually kill ADA’s AMCA project."

This doesn't make any sense. Do you mean that ADA already has all the techs necessary for FGFA/AMCA and yet for some reason its not sharing with HAL and that HAL has to pay 6 billion USD to a foreign country to get the same thing that its sibling organization already has? And if ADA is so advanced then why don't they roll out a prototype without depending upon foreign help? And if that had been the case wouldn't the government invest in AMCA with greater enthusiasm and faith? I guess the GOI hasn't yet sanctioned the 2 billion USD requested by ADA for RnD on AMCA. Has it? No one in their right mind would waste 6 billion USD to buy techs that the country already has.

LEE said...

Anonymous said...

Sir Please Answer my question

Sir Our Defence Import Bill is 15 Billion Dollars Annually TODAY

And even in 2001-02 ie During Operation Parakram Time it was 5 Billion Dollars AT LEAST

SO My Question is WHY CANNOT we IMPORT at least 10 Mig 29s Every year Considering that their PRICE is 40 - 45 Million dollars

This way we COULD have got RID of the MIG 21s BY NOW

Secondly SMERCH Though EXPENSIVE at 12 Million a Piece CAN be bought EVERY YEAR

20 SMERCH will cost 250 Million MAXIMUM

250 Million is just a small part of our 15 BILLION dollar annual import bill

Where DOES this 15 BILLION Dollars GO if we are Still UNABLE to get RID of MIG 21s

Mr. Ra 13 said...

In your opinion do the DRDO, ADA, HAL etc mutually exchange the critically required technological knowledge or not, even with or without the exchange of money.

dashu said...

Finally it seems Pakistan succeeded in her game plan regarding Afghanistan as all NATO members are openly saying Pakistan has the influence to tame Taliban (whether Afghan or pak Taliban), what I understood from recent NATO meeting. I may be wrong . But Iran getting a beating from US . Don't you think US is making a fundamental mistake by sidelining Iran in this Afghanistan drama. Like one of the diplomats said US is trying to make problem as part of the solution.(actual saying was Problem cannot be part of Solution )

Anonymous said...

Hi PRASUN, I asked u about infrared countermeasures in the previous thread. Very very thanx for answering . But u didn' t answer some of the ques. Pls answer.
1.1. U said, "No IIR seeker with FPA can ‘see’ its target. It can only sense the target’s presence by computing the heat signature of the target relative to the surrounding environment.". But isnt it the mechanism behind the normal IR seeker.According to wiki,"Very modern heat-seeking missiles utilise imaging infrared (IIR), where the IR/UV sensor is a focal plane array which is able to "see" in infra-red, much like the CCD in a digital camera." Pls clarify about this.

Most importantly pls reply to these:
2. Most modern IR guided AAM and MANPADs have IR seekers employing dual filters-UV and IR. Even iff flares can succesfully jam, saturate the IR filter, then the missile will still be able to home in on the target using the UV filter? How does flares tackel this? can the crtidges bought from IMI provide protection against this type of missiles.
3. U told that our airforce bought flare cartridges from IMI that can neutralize IIR seeker equipped current gen missiles. What I want to know is are they really found to neutralize IIR seekers in the field or it has been proved on paper and pencil? HAS THE FLARECARTIDGES.
BEEN FIELD TESTED? I am saying so because every where on the net I have read that IIR seekers are virtually resistant to flares and can only be defeated by DIRCM.
4. Also has the tactic of dropping flares in clusters ti defeat IRCCM in IR guided missiles been field tested?
Pls reply.

Anonymous said...

Why did India decide to suspend oil exploration in a disputed area of the South China Sea ?
is it because of chini objections or is there any other reason behind it?

KSK said...

Hey Prasun ,
What do you think abt this article?
Is there any fact in these allegations against IPKF?

Anonymous said...

sir ,
u said HAL will learn through FGFA what ADA has already learnt(& more) through LCA..?
so y cant the ADA develop the FGFA with russia & HAL only do the production?
it would give the ADA more experience & learning

Anonymous said...

why did india stop oil search...well its bit like the indian students in australia and else where? lack of balls!!!

Anonymous said...

Hello Prasun Sir,

What does this mean...its a janes articles saying pakistan have BVR (home grown one):

what's you take on this?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@8.07AM: In order to seek answers for your questions, let’s first see what ADA has learnt through the Tejas programme & what HAL expects to learn from the FGFA programme.
Firstly, ADA has taken part in developing a fourth-generation combat aircraft right from the design stage, progressing on to wind-tunnel testing of various designs, then finalising the design & undertaking prototype development with the help of in-house developed CAD software. In case of the FGFA, however, HAL has completely skipped this stage, & will therefore not dabble with either FGFA-specific CAD or any other airframe-related aspects of R & D, like structural fatigue tests, etc.
Secondly, ADA & ADE have developed with the help of Lockheed Martin the FBW-FCS and all related avionic s for Tejas, while HAL again has skipped this stage & will not dabble in any such matters for the FGFA.
Thirdly, test-facilities like the NFTC & rangeless instrumented ranges in India reqd for finalising weapons validation parameters & related airborne-MMR’s fire-control algorithms are all available with ADA. In the FGFA’s case, all such testing & validation will have to be done in Russia, since HAL does not have such in-house test-facilities & all such DRDO-owned test-facilities are, till 2020, fully committed for the Tejas Mk2/LCA (Navy) Mk2 programmes. So, here too HAL stands inferior to ADA, since all FCS-related algorithms & source codes will have to be developed inside Russia by Russian entities.
Therefore, based on the above, who do you think is better equipped to participate in the in-country development of a fifth-generation combat aircraft? ADA or HAL? Since the bulk of the FGFA’s R & D will have to be undertaken in Russia by Russian OEMs, the Govt of India has no choice but to give US$6 billion to the Ruskies. Most importantly, the desire to give such financing to Russia is a political decision, for if Indian willingness to do so was not forthcoming, the Ruskies would easily have approached China, South Korea or Indonesia for forking out such an amount. Therefore, what HAL will eventually get will be just the screwdriver technologies of the type coming with the Rafale M-MRCA procurement, although the FCS-related & EW-related source-codes will be shared by THALES with the IAF, something which the Ruskies haven’t shared with the IAF for the Su-30MKI & are also most unlikely to share for the FGFA’s AESA-MMR as well . Consequently, what India will get is a FGFA for the IAF, but will not acquire the industrial R & D capability for developing any fifth-generation combat aircraft. The latter can only be acquired if a fully home-grown AMCA emerges, something which only the ADA at this moment is capable of evolving, and not HAL.

To Anon@2.29PM: The MiG-21 Bisons & MiG-27UPGs could easily have been replaced by the Rafale M-MRCA had the M-MRCA competition taken off by late 2002. Failing this, yes the MiG-29UPG upgrade programme should have taken off in 2004 and could have included procurements of at least an additional 60 new-build MiG-29SMTs. The bulk of the annual import bill is spent on product-support costs associated with all the imported hardware that are existing within the inventories of the armed forces.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr. RA 13: No, that doesn’t happen, since ADA is the design authority & HAL is merely the production authority. HAL’s counterpart of the ADA is the ARDU, which has done extremely poorly thus far, considering how the HTT-35 BTT project & HJT-36 IJT project have turned up thus far. I can also state with certainty that the same fate awaits the HTT-40 BTT.

To Dashu: On the contrary, the fact remains that Pakistan now has no gameplan regarding Afghanistan, as revealed by Pakistan’s inability to solve even basic law-and-order problems inside its own provinces of Sind & Baluchistan. Pakistan today is functioning as a default state that can’t even stand up on its own two legs, and will consequently will topple down the cliff just due to a whiff of air blowing against it. Pakistan’s problems are manifold today, like for starters the activation of its entire western border, with a resurgent Afghanistan with NATO’s support demanding the demarcation of the Afghanistan-Pakistan international border (which has been non-existent since 1996 after the expiry of the validity of the Durand Line) that now seeks to include FATA & sections of Pashtun-dominated Baluchistan as part of Afghanistan. Secondly, with China too withdrawing financial support for the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline, Teheran is now totally pissed off with Islamabad, while the Saudis were already totally pissed off with Pakistan for the latter’s cosying up with Iran. Regarding Iran, better read this:

To Anon@11.14PM: There’s one & only one simple answer to your queries: had DIRCMs been so indispensible for combat aircraft survivability, then they should have already entered bulk production by now for fourth- & fifth-generation combat aircraft. Well, since that hasn’t happened nor is likely to happen, it consequently means that flare countermeasures are still very much viable options to be retained worldwide.

To Anon@11.20PM: The answer is simple, isn’t it? It’s time to chicken out, instead of trying to defend a militarily indefensible posture.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KSK: Of course all kinds of atrocities take place during wartime conditions. These are stark facts. There are no angels in such cases. That’s the law of ‘prakriti’. By the way, do read this:
It was in 1953 that the then Indian PM Jawaharlal Nehru brought the then Burmese PM U Nu to Kohima and began the process of dividing Nagaland between the two, which resulted in India gifting away the Somra Tract bordering Upper Burma to Rangoon. It is in this very Tract that all these northeastern separatists are holed up. I wonder what caused Nehru to shower U Nu with such generosity & deny such generosity to China regarding Aksai Chin at a time when Beijing was far less bellicose & far less demanding than it now is.

To Anon@: As I’ve explained above, political factors are at play when it comes to the FGFA. At the same time, the Govt of India has failed to evolve both a comprehensive roadmap for a national aerospace industrial policy, and create a national Aerospace Commission to create such a roadmap. Consequently, turf wars between entities like ADA & HAL are rife, & wasteful duplication of effort occurs. For it makes no sense to develop two types of fifth-generation combat aircraft—FGFA & AMCA—with two different industrial entities (ADA & HAL). Even in the US, the F/A-22 Raptor & F/A-35 JS, were both developed by only one OEM--Lockheed Martin. I wonder in India’s case where will the money come from to procure both the FGFA & AMCA. To me it’s pure wishful thinking.

To Anon@2.21AM: The Kamra-based AWC was working on a locally-made version of the V4 R-Darter BVRAAM from South Africa’s Denel Dynamics, which had in turn originated from Israel’s Derby BVRAAM programme. There is now known to be in existence an R-Darter lookalike that’s surfaced from China.

Anonymous said...

what are the things included in the so called "screwdriver technologies"
..what are the technologies that india actually seeks but doesnot get ?
& for what reasons ?

buddha said...

can India reconsider to buy those
18 su30 fighters for just $10 million each
which India previously had returned back long ago
at least they are cheap and better than Migs and consideing the squadron and price they may be profitable...
sir your thought is expected

Anonymous said...

So can't the GOI simply instruct ADA and HAL to collaborate on AMCA and LATER ON siphon the Russian techs that HAL might obtain from FGFA to AMCA? It doesn't make any sense that instead of doing that its wasting 6 billion dollars plus cost of AMCA...

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Thanx! That explains many a things:

"HAL’s counterpart of the ADA is the ARDU, which has done extremely poorly thus far, considering how the HTT-35 BTT project & HJT-36 IJT project have turned up thus far. I can also state with certainty that the same fate awaits the HTT-40 BTT."

dashu said...

Sir U r a store house of information's and u hv the ability to use them at right time ; which is a rarity .

Anonymous said...

i have seen in regional news chenal one guy is conecting Siachen issue with nato supply reopening to afghanistan through pakistan,he was saying pakistan want america to pressure india on siachen to reopening
what u think about this?

Anonymous said...

Indeed you have got the history of the pak BVR correct. I digged around a bit and found out the same...except that the original "R-Darter" had a range of only 60km. Whereas PAF's version is closer to 120km, has greater agility and a different seeker. Rather this is what some of the defence sites (Pakistan) are saying. For some reason they seem(PAks) to show you more respect than people on BR.

I can't find out info on whether PAF will continue with this BVR or give it up for SD-10/Amraam 120C5? What has impressed me is the number of technologies in which they have managed to aquire a degree of competency with their resources?

KSK said...

India has fewer diplomats than New Zealand...the author has high regards for Indian diplomats.

So wats the quid pro quo for decreasing oil import from Iran.

Unknown said...


When do you expect we will Ssee the signing of the Chinook deal for IAF? And will IAF go for anymore over 15. And will IAF look at getting any Ch-47G/V-22 for Spec Force operations??

Also do you see the current depreciation of the rupee relative to Follar and Euro having an adverse effect on the MMRCA as it is making it more expensive day by day to by the Rafale from France in Euros. Will the MMRCA be subsequently scrapped or are you confident the deal will be signed this year no matter what.

Also how does this deprecation affect other foreign purchases like Apache, C-130,P-8, C-17 (follow on orders) etc does it not make them more expensive and thus less desirable? Will MoD continue their purchases of such equipment? I hope so btw!!

Mr. Ra 13 said...

We may not know the futuristic trends of the economics, but we know that without these weapons we will be more and more unsafe. So they should go ahead with the purchase with a regret for non-availability of the indigenous equivalents.

An Indian said...

Dear Prasun Da,

I have following questions..

1. Recently announced Su-30 MKI upgrade contract is going to upgrade all IAF SU-30s with AESA Radars.Earlier I have seen in your blog ..that it will be a MIRES AESA (AESA antenna on upgraded N011M BARS)…..But now I am reading every where (including Wiki) that it’s going to be Zhuk-ASE (Zhuk AE version for Sukhoi’s ) .Zhuk – ASE has 0.9 M Dia with around 1100 TR Units/Channel and each unit/channel’s ‘s power output is around 5 watt….so the total max power output for Zhuk-ASE will be around 6 KWT…..which far less than even F-18 E/F’s APG-79. and hence Sukhoi’s search range will be far –far less compared to even upgraded F-16’s new Radar’s like RACR or SABR..forget F-18 E/F ,F-15 with APG 63-V3 and F-22-APG77. Is this Zhuk-ASE news correct?
2. Why India is not going for MIRES one…is it because MIRES has not matured compared to Zhuk-ASE?
3. India should have waited and then opted for the AESA version, which is going to be part of FGFA (for easier logistics and maintenance)or Even, could have used Israeli AESA –2052.


An Indian said...

Prasun Da,

What is your opinion on India's latest strategic deals with US(I would says India buying Strategic Depndency on US worth of $ 15 Billion USD)..while knowing US's previous and even today's attitude of imposing sanctions on India ..if India does not act as US says..

Elaborating in details as below.

Other issue is India always has a threat of US Sanctions beginning from 70’s Uranium Embargo, till the latest 98 Pokhran Test and thus US Again Sanction impacted huge delay for LCA –Tejas Development…because US confiscated LCA Flight Control System developed jointly by Indian and US engineers in US.
Recently again we have seen 2 US control ISSUES impacted India’s own stealth warship Shivalik delivery got delayed due to late clearance of fitting GE LM-2500 Gas Turbine Engine (which were manufactured in India under license agreement) from US State department Pentagon.. Now again India is verge of facing US sanctions since India needed to further reduce imports from Iran to win waiver from US...So far India never had much impact of these Sanctions because of India’s less strategic dependencies on US.(US knows this ) That’s why they have embarked upon pursuing Indian MOD to buy products of strategic importance and dependency so that in the future any US Sanctions will be more powerful and will allow effective control on Indian Policies…no matter India develops Atom bombs of ICBMs.

Now looking to these US selfish safe is our strategic purchases ?
1. 100 LCA-Tejes will have US engines..softwares and spares.
2. 500 Arjun MBT’s will have US Cummins engines and spares.
3. India’s Very important Long Range Naval Surveillance plane P8-I (These planes will track SSN and SSBNs in Indian Ocean ) are from US.
4. India’s future Strategic Lift C-17 aircraft fleet is from US.
5. India’s VVIP transport plane is from US…(They desperately wanted this deal to snoop upon India’s VVIP’s conversations through satellite link).

Apart from these strategic deals

1. They are using all tactics to stall the RAFALE deal with France….another very big strategic dependency…India will have if IAF had selected F/A-18 E/F.
2. Issue have cropped up for VVIP helicopter deal with Eurocopter..and again they are using dirty tactics to stall this deal and arrange to in favor US’s S-70.

Please tell me what will happen IF India tests a ICBM with 12,000-15,000 KM range or even decides to develop one. Or a SLBM with range over 8000 KM .

Even if a war broken out with Pakistan and India’s forces advances in Pak land to break it into Two….

US will definitely slap another Sanction and this time it will be very effective all these Armed Forces Assets will be grounded,until India changes it’s plan or acts as Desired by US.

India's GREEDY and CORRUPT MOD Babus,Businessmen and Politicians are just botherd about their personal gains...and interested in getting money or favor like placing their kids in US varsities thrugh US sponsorships or Political support.

Is this analysis is incorrect? What’s your opinion?


Anonymous said...

Y does all online article compare Akash SAM to MIM-104 Patriot SAM ?

R they ignorant or is there any logic behind it like use of similar tech.

Mallu said...

It seems no one is bothered to ask any question about your post on CMP report by US DoD.
This could be either the readers did not understand what you posted or the tendency of Indians to ignore such reports as farce or insignificant with respect to India.

But what I understood from this, US DoD has clearly marked the boundary of China with China's neighboring countries. Did DoD has similar map on land border area? Kindly tell us the link to download the file. I am unable to zoom-in the pictures to read more clearly.

Nevertheless, what I found the most important is the picture 5 - China's import Transit Routes and Proposed Routes for Bypassing SLOCs. What is this SLOCs? Sri Lankan Ocean Corridor? :)
May be wrong - blindly guessed.

What is the significance of this? CN will do everything to protect her routes, especially the South China Sea. So hegemony is the best way to weaken the smaller nations. If SLOC is indeed referred to Sri Lanka, why should CN bypass it? CN has invested heavely in SL including a sea port.

So considering these reports, it makes a lot of sense that insurgency in NE States will increase in the coming years. The link you forwarded on Week Article is very much true. So is China, with the help of Churches, going to split NE States? Some of articles by Chinese frequently mentioned on splitting NE States. The involvement of Churches in NE State Militancy/insurgency plays significance roles.

Kindly give your inputs.

This is indeed the sad state of our governance. Our so called elected leaders are only interested in making money. Really disappointed with our PM.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@3.30AM: They include establishment of in-country depot level maintenance capabilities, which includes the required transfer of technology to the IAF & HAL, enabling in-country maintenance of the platform throughout its service life of over 30 years; plus ToT for licence-assembling the airframe, avionics, engines & accessories & making some components of them indigenously.

To Buddha: Those Su-30Ks were sold a long time ago to Russia, which in turn sold them to Belarus.

To Anon@12.05PM: Such instructions can’t emanate from the GoI simply because there’s no aerospace industrial policy existing. Govts in India, unlike Russia, don’t function according to decrees, but by diktats of the civilian decision-makers. Furthermore, the Russians are no fools to allow technology inflows from the FGFA to the AMCA. There will be sufficient firewalls put in place by Russia to prevent this.

To Mr.RA 13: Slight correction….it is not ARDU, but ARDC. Indigenous equivalents are there, like the Tejas R Mk1 tandem-seater, which can be a bloody good lead-in fighter trainer. All that needs to be done is cancel the HJT-36 & HTT-40 programmes ASAP & use the money saved to invest in the LIFT project. There are far more export prospects for the LIFT than there will ever be for the IJT & BTT combined.


To Anon@6.18PM: That’s highly speculative & without any basis. The Siachen issue can be resolved tomorrow if only the Govt of Pakistan picks up matters from where Gen Musharraf had reached in parleys with the Govt of India while he was still in power regarding the final settlement of the J & K issue. Almost 90% of this agreement was finalized by 2007. That’s what Pakistan’s military establishment has been hinting at & calling for since the past five years.

To Anon@7.33PM: Neither China nor Pakistan have come up with indigenous 120km-range BVRAAMs. The PAF’s sole new-generation BVRAAM in service remains the AIM-120 AMRAAM. The SD-10 has yet to be flight-qualified on the JF-17.

To KSK: The quid pro quo is a long & distinguished list in terms of high-tech access in strategic areas, such as the missile monitoring system constellation for BMD, & GPS guidance kits for PGMs that can be synchronised with the IRNSS satellite constellation, for starters.

To Unknown: The CH-47F deal should be inked this fiscal year. The reqmt is for up to 36 heavylift utility helicopters. V-22s are not being considered at the moment. The M-MRCA won’t be scrapped, since the deal is Euro-denominated, and not in US$. The follow-on C-130J-30s, P-8Is, C-17As & AH-64Ds will also go through before 2014.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To An Indian: All those buffoons claiming that the Zhuk-AE will go on the Super Su-30MKI were definitely not present at the Aero Induia 2011 expo’s press conference given by the then IAF Chief ACM P V Naik. Hence such buffoons are distanced from reality. If the Zhuk-AE was meant to go on board the Su-30MKI, then by now this radar would already have been flight-qualified on the Su-30MKI. That has not happened so far. Furthermore, if you read all about the MIRES AESA-MMR & how it is related to the existing NO-11-0M Bars MMR (in an earlier thread last year on the Super Su-30MKI), then you’ll understand why the Zhuk-AE isn’t an alternative for the Su-30MKI.

To Anon@9.48PM: That’s because they’re stuck in a time-warp.

To Mallu: The link’s posted by an Anon as:
US maps demarcating the land borders are available with the US Defense Mapping Agency. SLOC stands for sea lanes of communications. AS regards the spurt in insurgency in the North East, who needs China when Indian citizens in power themselves are capable of such sordid acts!!! Let’s not forget who were the creators of separatists like the NDFB & ULFA. It was folks like the former CM of Assam like Hitsehwar Saikia who, aided by the Centre, created such outfits in the 1980s to counterbalance outfits like the AASU & AGP. India’s counter-insurgency strategy post-independence has been the same as that of the British colonial masters, i.e. divide & rule by creating opposing parties to regional disputes in the hope that one neutralises the other. Sadly, in India’s case, this is what has led to the mushrooming of various separatist movements over the years, be it in southern India or in the North East. All these are exhaustively documented in their books by the likes of Maloy Krishna Dhar (Open Secrets) & B Raman (The Kaoboys of R & AW). Bottomline: Why approach/blame China when there’s no dearth of ‘indigenous’ traitors hanging around in the corridors of power throughout post-1947 India!!!

Anonymous said...

can you elaborate in detail about the boundary settlement agreement between india and pakistan. Was india to gain more anything from it, and would it have settled the boundary issue permanently. do you think that china will do nothing when such a agreement taking place.

Anonymous said...

To Buddha & Prasun, which batch of Su-30 K are u guys talking about ? That Russia sold to Belarus. Haven't we ordered 272 Sukhois from Russia. And when the license production will be complete won't we have 272 Su-30?

Anonymous said...

dashu said...

from that map half of J&K is part of Pakistan .so this is what the settlement regarding j&k with Pakistan . is this gonna be the final map of India until we lose NE.

smarak mohanta said...


KSK said...

*It says here that $6B is only for the basic aircraft n the avionics will cost more, what would be the total development cost ?

*And if India pays half of that can it use the tech as it wishes say in AMCA?

*What i cant understand is why not just buy the Fighter after it has been developed by russia as ruskies cant go to china cas they have J-20 project?

* what does India stand to gain if it participates in the development Technologically, financially and strategically ??

Arch Angel said...

Dear sir,I need to ask you something.
How many ordnance factories in India are currently manufacturing 155mm artillery ammunition and at what rate per year?
And can you specify the factories producing 155mm artiller shells?
Please please try to reply,I really need these informations..

Anonymous said...

HAL TAJAS look like departmental file and HAL/DRDO a gov.dept. who deliver one table to other table its process not finish i Liston amricon company agin join this file 30 year for one project TD 1, PV 1, LSP-1 LCA-2 NP-1,NP-2 HA HAHA THIS file and this gov department take 30 more year when whole world air force make six generation A/C this file able to fly with weapon.

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun, according to u , a quarter of the entire Sukhoi fleet will be subjected to the Super upgrade program. Now, what does the super 30 upgrade program consist of other than the MIRES aesa Mmr, Idas, and airframe strengthening for enabling carriage of 2 Brahmos missiles. Earlier i read in the newspapers that gradually batch by batch the entire fleet will be upgraded to the Super standard. Also i read in Telegraph that the IAPO director said that they were still finalising the upgrade program for the Sukhois and the whole fleet will be subjected to this upgrade. Will not the Sukhois be fitted with super cruising AL-41F turbofans? Will not stealth coatings and VLO shapings be applied to the airframe? The RCS of Sukhoi-35 is about 1-2.5 whereas that of Su-30 MKI is 20 . So the airframe modifications on the Su-35 will not go into the 30 MKI airframe? Also will not the Khibinsky ESM of the Su-35 be fitted on board the Sukhoi - 30 MKI fleet? 
Will we order more Sukhois to address acute combat aircraft shortage and arrest depleting squadron levels?

Anonymous said...

Hi, I have some questions regarding INS Vikramaditya. 
1. Why did India bought 2nd hand and refurbished aircraft carrier for 2.13 billion dollars when it could have bought a new one of greater displacement which could embark more fighter jets. 
2. What is the armament of Vikramaditya. How many Kashtan systems and Buk SAMs are fitted onto it.
3. What is the maximum no of MiG-29K and Ka-28/31 can it embark and operate considering deck space. Is the no of MiG-29 greater than 16?
4. What is it's standard complement?
5. From the arrangement of landing deck, arrestor wires & takeoff ramp, it seems unlikely that takeoff and landing can be carried out simultaneously. This will prove to be a great hindurance during combat operations.
6. Can the MiG-29K takeoff at full weapons payload (5500 ton) from the relatively short ski ramp?
7. What greater op capabilities will the Vikramaditya have over the Viraat? The Viraat could carry 30 Sea Harriers. The Vik can't carry so many MiGs. The Viraat also had berthing for 750 troops and 4 LCVP. The Vikramaditya don't have any of these features. So what does the Navy gain from the ex Gorkshov?
Pls reply.

Anonymous said...

sir ,
i have a ques..plz confirm it or correct it..
acc. to wikipedia..INS vikramaditya will hv 8 kashtan ciws combat modules..
does each combat module has 2 30mm guns & 2 SAM launchers with 4 missiles each ? (i.e 8 missiles per module)
does it mean INS VIK. wud hv 64 SAMs?

An Indian said...

Prasun Da,
I understood that only 50 out of entire entire Su-30 s of IAF will go for upgraded structure modification to carry one Brahmos on it's center-line pylon(These 50 aircraft's will be assigned as strategic weapons delivery role) also will have a limited AEW&C capability,so that these can operate on their own inside hostile territory without any large AWACS support.


bradshaw said...

Hi Prasun,

Just got the news that the second AKASH trial has failed and the missile was randomly selected from the production lot going directly to the end users.

Is the AKASH program will also have the same fate as the trishul ?? and how much reliable such homegrown programs are in terms of accuracy and precision since the armed forces will not feel comfortable and confident with such equipment which are failing even out of the production lot ??

IluvIndia said...

``Naval History - Blueprint to Bluewater''.
On March 28, 1958, standing on the quarterdeck of `Mysore' Pandit Nehru said:
``From this ship I look at India and think of our country and its geographic situation - on three sides there is the sea and the fourth high mountains - in a sense our country may be said to be on the very lap of an ocean. In these circumstances I ponder over our close links with the sea and how the sea has brought us together. From time immemorial the people of India have had very intimate connections with the sea. They had trade with other countries and they had also built ships. Later on the country became weak... Now that we are free, we have once again reiterated the importance of the sea. We cannot afford to be weak at sea... History has shown that whatsoever power controls the Indian ocean has, in the first instance, India's seaborne trade at her mercy and in the second India's very independence itself.''

We should have had the 2nd best navy in the world.
Actions are much sweater words.
Now all we can hope is to be 3rd best navy (Hopefully) .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.06AM & Dashu: The broad parameters of the boundary settlement issue involve around making the LoC into a soft border (almost irrelevant), and converting the existing working boundary between the LOC & the international boundary into a permanent boundary. The eventual J & K state, inclusive of the Indian J & K, POK & Northern Areas, would be deemed an autonomous province jointly administered by both India & Pakistan, with water supply becoming a state subject and this consequently addressing a key factor that presently worries Pakistan a lot. Once this is achieved, the enti re J & K state could then achieve a substantial degree of demilitarisation, including the area around the Siachen Glacier & Aksai Chin. But for all this to happen China’s concurrence is vital and maybe this is why China has since 2009 regarded J & K as a disputed territory, this being done in order to bring pressure to bear upon India to sit on the negotiating table & settle the outstanding issue of J & K state’s borders both to the east, west & north in a manner that is agreeable to all three countries.

To Smarak Mohanta: The ICGS Do-228s are used for maritime patrol & pollution control, while the Navy’s Do-228s are used for coastal surveillance/coastal ELINT.

To KSK: US$6 billion is the R & D cost. The series-production phase will cost extra. And by the time the FGFA enters service, the AMCA will lose all relevance.

To Arch Angel: All that data is easily available at the OFB’s website.

To Anon@4.45PM: Only one underslung BrahMos, not two. All data on the Super Su-30MKI is available in an earlier thread of last year in this blog.

To Anon@5.10PM & 5.39PM: There’s no Kashtan or BUK-M on board INS Vikramaditya. There’s no need for MR-SAMs on the carrier since it will always be escorted by FFGs & DDGs. What is reqd is a CIWS, for which competitive evaluations are now underway. On board there will be 16 MiG-29Ks, four Ka-31s & two Ka-28PLs. The MiG-29K can takeoff at full weapons payload (5.5 ton) from the relatively short ski ramp. The Vuraat could never carry more than 17 Sea Harriers, even when it was serving as HMS Hermes.

To An Indian: That’s correct.

To Bradshaw: Even the BrahMos that was fired earlier this year during the Navy’s Eastern Fleet exercises missed its target. Such things do happen and it does not mean that the missile round malfunctioned.