Total Pageviews

Sunday, December 9, 2012

TATA Power SED's 155mm/52-cal Motorised Howitzer Detailed

Since none of the “desi” journalists have so far bothered to showcase the first fully-functional prototype of the 155mm/52-calibre truck-mounted howitzer unveilled last week by TATA Power’s Strategic Electronics Division (SED), I might as well as be the one to provide certain insights!
Dubbed as being 55% indigenous by content, this motorised howitzer was jointly developed by TATA Power SED and South Africa’s DENEL Land Systems. Essentially a re-engineered version of DENEL’s T5-52 motorised howitzer (which was showcased during DEFEXPO 2002 along with SOLTAM Systems’ ATMOS, with both of them at that time making use of a TATRA-built truck, the latest ‘avatar’ of this weapon system has unveiled last March/April at the DEFEXPO 2012 expo at Pragati Maidan, New Delhi. At that time, TATA Power SED officials seemed confident of exporting this motorised howitzer to Indonesia. If this deal does fructify, then Indonesia’s Army (TNI-AD) would become the third ASEAN army to procure such howitzers, the other two being the Royal Thai Army with six Nexter Systems-built Caesars in service, and Myanmar’s army with 12 Yugoimport SDPR-built Noras in service.
DENEL Land Systems has supplied the monoblock gun barrel fitted with a double-baffle muzzle brake, gun cradle with an integrated buffer system, swing-and-slide breech mechanism, electrically-activated firing mechanism, autoloader/rammer, ballistics charts, muzzle velocity radar, an automatic laying and land navigation system using a RLG-INS, a panoramic optical-mechanical sight mounted directly to the trunnion, incorporating a compensation system for trunnion cant, which forms a backup for indirect fire, and a telescopic sight for direct fire that is mounted to the compensation system. TATA Power SED, on the other hand, developed the digital ballistics computer, telecommunications system, the hydraulic system that supplies hydraulic power for deployment of the outriggers and the top-carriage hydraulics, all on-board electrical systems, the gun management computer, and the ‘Rajak’ driver’s vision enhancement system. The customised 8 x 8 truck comes from TATA Motors.
Overall, TATA Power SED’s solution is being touted as being the cheapest option, a claim that will undoubtedly be contested by the likes of other contenders like the Larsen & Toubro/Nexter Systems partnership that is offering the Caesar, the Kalyani Group/ELBIT Systems partnership that is likely to offer the ATMOS, and the Punj Lloyd/Yugoimport SDPR partnership that is likely to propose the Nora. However, a simple visual comparison between TATA Power SED’s solution and the Caesar reveals the fact that the latter’s overall design is superior as it can be airlifted by transporters like the C-130J-30. In addition, the Caesar has also been combat proven in both Afghanistan and along the Thai-Cambodian border.
However, one thing is certain: the Indian Army’s demand for such motorised howitzers (labelled by the Indian Army as Mounted Gun Systems), which first arose immediately after OP Vijay in 1999, will be for at least 1,800 units (and not 814 as is being erroneously claimed in some quarters) in the years to come, since it is now virtually certain that the Indian Army will no longer procure the 1,580 towed 155mm/52-cal howitzers that it had earlier planned to, given the fact that the DRDO has succeeded (only God knows how!) in convincing the Ministry of Defence that it, along with India’s private-sector firms and public-sector undertakings, will be able to deliver a futuristic 155mm/52-cal advanced towed artillery gun system (ATAGS) by 2022.
The 155mm/52-cal MGS is the second such product to emerge from TATA Power’s stable, the first being a truck-mounted version of the 105mm India Field Gun Mk2, which was co-developed with the MoD-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) about seven years ago.

231 comments:

1 – 200 of 231   Newer›   Newest»
Mr. Ra 13 said...

Something about Arjun Mk-2 ??

Gessler said...

Hahaha Prasunji, you have put the knife on my throat again...I can't sleep until I know what this is about?

Is the second tank in Pic #1 the Tank-EX? Arjun Mk1 turret on T-72M1 hull.

I think atleast 1,700 Arjun-type MBTs will be build total (including the Mk-3). whaddayashay?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: Yes, indeed. About both the Arjun Mk2 & the FMBT.

To GESSLER: The to-be-uploaded narrative will focus on the new-generation MBTs & FMBT concepts unveilled so far on a global scale, followed by lessons to be drawn by India & some rather interesting observations that were made by senior IA officials at a recent seminar held in New Delhi on the IA's armoured force-modernisation challenges. Hope that'll buy you some sleep, eh! But before that, kindly read my comment@2.45AM in the previous thread, since that will set the tone & provide the context for the upcoming narrative in this thread.

Anonymous said...

Sir, Will you be also dwelling upon the armoured fleet modernisation of PA and PLA? J&K and the whole of PoK rightly belongs to India. J&K must not be overseen jointly by PAK and India. It must belong to the rightfull owner.

Anonymous said...

"The French company has told the ministry that if it is given the overall responsibility for the project, it should be given the freedom to decide on the proportion of work to be done by the HAL and private companies in the programme, they said."
Could this change the shape of entire indian defence sector ? Dassault tie-up with Reliance is ver significant here. What would happen if instead of HAL dassault argues that they want Reliance ?
Reliance has the money and vision to become what HAL couldn't become in more than 7 decades. Indian aerospace and defence sector could only benefit if public sector will get competition from private sector.

Anonymous said...

http://idrw.org/?p=16505

If HAL is pitted against Reliance in MMRCA, one could argue that HAL experience if on their side but i doubt they could still beat Reliance. Infact dassault might have to work more hard to help set up new assembly line for HAL than Reliance. In the interest of national security i think tata, mahindra, ALL, Reliance and l&t should be given support from MOD.

Anonymous said...

Sir, (including the formalisation of a bilateral restraint regime codifying a verifiable balance of conventional/strategic forces of the two countries), What do you mean by this ? There will be a conventional arms.reduction treaty like IAF can't have more than this no of fighters,bombers. IA can't have greater than a particular no of tanks,artillery. IN's DDG FFG, SSK , nos will be capper like some Treaty of Versailles. Such a sort of agreement will be outright disastrous. Such treaties should be applied to nuclear arms and missiles.

Anonymous said...

sir ,
in the comments sections of previous post..u mention combat helos as a good CAS tool..provided the infantry & other ground forces have hand held laser designtors..
this is very common for western troops in afghanistan & iraq..
even ordinary western troops do specialized courses to direct fire from a aircraft or helo..does such capability exist among ordinary indian infantry..
as far as i know it only exist with the para..

Anonymous said...

Sir,

why share kashmir with pak?
a) considering current financial status it will be a complete failed state by 2025.
b) pak Army will never allow kashmir problem to solve, it is the question of their survival.
c) pak army/ISI will again do some terror act in india so as to stop any kashmir solution(just like kargil,26/11).
Sir your views about the same.

Sir, why india go for the F414 for Tejas MK2 rather than selecting the engine used for MMRCA selected or SU30MKI? will it not reduce the cost?

saurav jha said...

Hello Prasun,

Can we expect any pact for Kolchuga system when the Ukrainian president visits India.Is this system really the best in the world ..?
Are we really going for Ukrainian R-77 AAMs ..?

Thanks in advance..

abs said...

@prasunda
Thanks for such detailed explanations.
Given Musharraf's 4 point formula, the part where the Northern Areas of Pakistan would undisputably become Pakistan's is the most dangerous conception, as it would cut off the entire CAR region from India. Also I very much doubt how a state can be ruled by 2 nations in a totally demilitarized zone.
Could you also give your views on these and help remove my suspicion of Musharraf's four point formula.

abs said...

^^
2)Are laser guided rockets like DAGR that could be launched fropm helos being developed by the DRDO? And what about the 25kM HERMES-A? Do you foresee it being procured by the IA?

abs said...

^^
And from your replies above, I can conclude, that Pakistan would not be in a position to (and neither would it like to) wage a war against India, which is perhaps also why the number of terrorist attacks are decreasing.
And with growing convergences, China would not be likely to initiate a border conflict at least till the time this resolution comes about.
However the true scale of reconciliation can only be gauged if Pakistan stops breeding terrorism, and this thing is more complex than what you have outlined, especially with the increasing radicalization of Pakistan and Pakistani Armed Forces.The economic situation in Pakistan does little to help.
Looking forward to your expert views and comments, as always :)

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

Isn't it odd that countries like the US and Russia conducted thousands of nuclear tests and the other P5 members conducted a few hundred nuclear tests in order to gain the required technical knowledge about nuclear whereas India conducted barely 5 - 6 tests and DRDO / Govt says that we have acquired the necessary knowledge ?

Why isn't India conducting more tests ?

Thanks & Regards,
Vikram

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.04AM: Of course, the latest details of China’s & Pakistan’s MBT fleet modernization efforts will also be included. In every grand reconciliation, there’s always give & take. For India this will be a nett gain since a substantially demilitarised J & K (both Indian & Pakistani parts) will at last give India the critical land access access to Central Asia via the Northern Areas & Wakhan Corridor. Kindly try to look at the big picture, if you want India to be the ‘breakout nation’.

To Anon@10.40AM: What this means is that thanks to the extremely tight time-schedules for the M-MRCA’s project implementation, the MoD has no other choice but to undertake urgent structural reforms that call for HAL’s strategic divestment & companies like Reliance Group becoming HAL’s minority shareholders with a say on decision-making at the Board-level. For, only in this way will HAL have access to the much-need finances reqd for initiating large-scale increases to its production capacities/capabilities. That’s the only option left for the MoD & HAL on the table if anyone wants to HAL alone to handle so many projects all at the same time (as I had explained in the previous thread).

To Anon@10.45AM: It is not about HAL versus Reliance, but as I’ve explained above, efforts to evolve a sustainable private-public partnership (PPP) mechanism, since neither the MoD or HAL have access to the kind of financial resources that are reqd for implementing all the future projects that I had listed in the previous thread.

To Anon@11AM: Once a grand reconciliation takes place, & once it is formally decided that India & Pakistan will co-exist & cooperate just like the US & Canada does, then there will be several CBMs that will have to be adopted, such as a conventional forces treaty (like the CFE) & a strategic restraint regime (like the one announced during the Lahore Summit of 1999). It does not mean drastic force reductions, rather it will all be about force re-deployments along the international borders.

To Anon@11.29AM: Since 2003, the number of manportable laser target designators with built-in thermal imagers in service with infantry battalions has increased manifold. And new inductions continue to take place even today.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@11.32AM: Sharing is a two-way process. It is therefore not just about India making unilateral concessions. A failed state is all the more disastrous for India, as Pakistan discovered by 2001 when its immediate neighbour Afghanistan was a failed state. Contrary to popular perception, Pakistan Army has since 2004 been a proponent of regional peace formulae & that’s precisely why Musharraf & Dr MMS had conducted back-channel diplomacy in order to agree on a sustainable & enforceable formula for a grand reconciliation. Had Musharraf not been ousted by 2007, then by now the agreed-upon formula would already have been implemented. As for Pakistan Army or the ISI doing another 26/11, it is by now fairly evident that it wasn’t the Pakistan Army’s military establishment that was complicit (no one in their right mind would have undertake such a course of action at the same time as Pakistan’s Foreign Minister was visiting India, & it was therefore evident that certain interests opposed to a grand reconciliation were the masterminds & perpetrators). That was precisely the reason why the then ISI DG, Lt Gen Shuja Ahmed Pasha in 2009 himself attended the Indian High Commission in Islamabad’s Iftar function & conveyed the Pakistani military establishment’s views & appreciations about the future course of India-Pakistan bilateral ties post-26/11.
As for powerplant options for Tejas Mk1, the choice in favour of F404F2J3 & F414-GE-400 was made long before it was decided to acquire either the Rafale or Su-30MKI. It is therefore impossible now to change horses in mid-stream.

To SAURAV JHA: Nahin yaar….India has already developed the ‘Divya Dhrishti’ passive surveillance system (PSS) & therefore does not need imported PSS solutions like Kolchuga-M or Vera-E. R-27 BVRAAMs & VK-2500 engines (for Mi-17V-5) from Ukraine, not R-77s.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: Even if NA becomes part of Pakistan, the four-point formula guarantees Indian access to it for trade & commerce via the Wakhan Corridor & therefore India’s land & air transportation routes to Afghanistan & Central Asia would be secured at long-last. The J & K issue for Pakistan has always revolved around the river water sources & Pakistan has always wanted to secure its sources of water supply. This is what one may refer to as being Pakistan’s core strategic imperative. Once a regional autonomous unified state of J & K comes into being, then automatically all Pakistani suspicions about India trying to wean away from Pakistan the river-water supply resources will be put to rest once & for all. This can only be achieved if the LoC is rendered irrelevant.
As for future conflicts, Pakistan had by 2004 itself realised that neither a conventional arms race nor a nuclear arms race with India was sustainable. Thus was born the formula for seeking regional solutions. This is also the singular lesson that one can draw from history (for it is the geography of a land that determines the history of the very same land). This was the case in ancient India as well, when the landmass that is now southern Afghanistan was once treated as no-man’s land & Bharat’s defences against external aggression from Iran or Macedonia began from the plains east of the Hindukush mountain range, this being the principal task of the Gandhara kingdom of Takshashila. One cannot escape such realities even in present times. Consequently, when it comes to securing present-day Afghanistan & the Central Asian Republics post-2014, the only two principal players with civilisational/cultural legacies capable of stabilising this region are India (having leverage on the non-Pashtuns to the north) & Pakistan (having leverage with the Pashtuns to the south & central part of Afghanistan). The US & NATO should have recognised this, but they did not, thereby giving China the opportunity to play the role of an objective behind-the-scenes facilitator—cum-mediator since 2004. The present-day worsening economic situation in Pakistan has only served to accelerate matters in this direction towards a grand reconciliation & it is for this reason that for the very first time in Pakistan’s history, all major political parties (except the fringe right-wing religious parties) are unanimously in favour of such a grand bargain, as are Pakistan’s armed forces since they do have now realised the hard way that that an all-spectrum arms race with India is unsustainable & existentially disastrous, especially if Pakistan’s top priority for the next decade will be to stabilise Afghanistan (for which it needs India’s help) & de-weaponise Pakistan’s civilian population, starting with its financial/commerce capital Karachi.

PGMs like DAGR or DASALS kit from BAE Systems can indeed be acquired in future for the AAC, since both are already certified for usage on the AH-64 Apache. Hermes-A is a comparatively new weapon but the good part is it can also be carried by fixed-wing aircraft (like Brimstone).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: All those countries had conducted the great majority of such tests between the 1950s & 1970s to validate certain principles of physics & refine warhead designs, data on which was freely available as open-source information by the early 1980s. India therefore did not have the need to re-invent the wheel & instead was only reqd to put in place the industrial capabilities/capacities reqd for acquiring fissile materials (a process which took three decades) & precision machining capabilities reqd for fabricating n-devices.

Anonymous said...

Sir, It will better to go for both.

1. Phase out 400-500 oldest T-72. Upgrade the rest of T-72 to Tank EX . But Arjuna turret should be modified to accomodate 24A6 125 mm cannon. Adopting 120 mm Arjun cannon will result in discarding of thousands of 125mm smoothbore T-72 rounds.

2. Upgrade the whole fleet of T-90 to MS standards. Or DRDO can work with Ural.. to come up with a new upgrade.Instead of Russuan Relikt ERA , kanchan composite armour can be applied to turret hull.After that Relikt ERA blocks can be installed.
HULL sides above tracks should have adequate protection in the form of applique composite armour.

3.Procure 500+ Arjun tanks to replace the phased out T-72 and also augment tank fleet.

IAF should request MoD to give autonomy to Dassault as to defining the role of HAL. Dassault should be asked to deliver the majority of 126 jets in fly-away conditions instead of present 18. HAL is not in a position of license assembling 4th gen MMRCA. It is already struggling with Tejas LCA. It has got its hands full. Setting up a production line for Rafale for HAL will be costly.HAL doesnt has adequate land and skilled manpower . Reliance industries may have the capital but they completely lack skilled manpower. Dassault production line for Rafale is running in France. It will be better if they produce the jets and deliver to us in fly-away condition at a rate of 20 per year. HAL will not be able to absorb most of ToT and will delay the enitre production process just as what happened with MDL wrt Scorpene production.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Here’s something just in: A memorandum of understanding (MOU) was signed on December 5th 2012 between Bharat Electronics Limited India (BEL) and Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. (IAI) Israel, concerning their cooperation on future LRSAM ship-defence system projects. The signing ceremony was conducted at IAI with participation of IAI's President & CEO, Mr. Joseph Weiss, BEL's Director Marketing, Mr. H.N. Ramakrishna, Mr. Eli Alfassi, Corporate VP India Operations, and other representatives. Mr. Boaz Levy, Director General of IAI's Air & Missile Defense Systems division and Mr. Ramakrishna signed the MOU on behalf of IAI and BEL, respectively (see photo above). For several years IAI has been engaged in joint development programs with the DRDO and Indian defense industries for the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force, including joint manufacturing of sub-systems. The MOU lays out framework for BEL-IAI cooperation, under which BEL will function as the Lead Integrator and produce major sub-systems. IAI will continue to act as Design Authority and to produce sub-systems as a main sub-contractor of BEL. Mr. Weiss, President and CEO of IAI, said: "This MOU is a significant step forward in our joint work with India. Partnership with BEL will further enhance IAI's ability to provide high quality solutions and service to Indian defense services, best supporting the needs of India. BEL is a strategic partner for IAI, and we hope this cooperation will expand to other areas of mutual interest." Mr. Ramakrishna, Director Marketing of BEL, said: "We see IAI as a strategic partner with a wide range of potential joint activities. This MOU demonstrates that BEL and IAI can work closely together on the most sophisticated and advanced programs, for the mutual benefit of both companies." Mr. Ramakrishna added: "We will continue to operate under the active support and guidance of the DRDO."

Anonymous said...

Sir, Will you kindly explain what is conventional forces treaty ? Wht are its aims and objectives ? Will there be any force reduction with IAF,IA,IN ? Then can India field as many fighters,bombers,tanks,ships as we like ? Such type of treaties will always benefit Pakistan since they have always been numerically inferior to us in conventional warfare hardware. EVERYTHING IS OKAY IF AND ONLY IF NO CONVENTIONAL FORCES REDUCTION AND STRENGTH RESTRICTION DOESNT TAKE PLACE FOR US.

Anonymous said...

What do you meean by drastic force reduction. Will a little force reduction occur ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Look at this: http://livefist.blogspot.in/2012/12/video-newsx-report-on-new-tata-155mm.html

The photo of the CVRDE/DENEL T-6 Bhim was taken by me at DEFEXPO 2000. See this was well: http://trishulgroup.blogspot.in/2009/10/ottavio-quattrocchis-lasting-gift-to.html

To Anon@1.22PM: Google ‘CFE Treaty for Europe’ & you’ll get a good idea of what a conventional forces treaty is all about. Numerically, both India & Pakistan have been evenly matched since the mid-1990s. Even today, India’s can’t boast of numerically superior forces. This had been admitted to as far back as 2002 by former IA COAS Gen Shankar Roychowdhury.

Anonymous said...

Hi, The thing between Canada and USA is different and between Pakistan and India it is different.. Pakistan military and ISI orchestrated 26/11 attack. And they continue to have their hands in helping terrorists infiltrate Indian J&K. J&K has always been our territory and will always be. It was Pak who had occupied our J&K. Why we will do diplomacy with them. Afterall as they say in Bengali , Gahake pitiye ghora kra jai na. Its the same case here.

Anonymous said...

Sir, I had already googeled CFE and read it from wiki. Just like what happened in Europe cant happen here. There was reductions in tanks,apcs,artillery. My ques is will there be a similar reduction or capping of our forces. Will IAF , IA ,IN then be free to field as many squadrons , tanks, ships as it likes. Re-deployment of troops along LOC is okay. But troops reduction is not. IAF is both quantitatively and qualitatively superior than PAF. IN has twice the no of capital ships PN has . If DRDO didnt intervene IAF could have same no of AEW&C as PAF. But alas. PA has greater no of artillery pieces ,AFV than us. IA has around 500 tanks more than PA.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@1.37PM: Such sanctimonious perceptions will only contribute to create more Prithviraj Chauhans who, though gallant & chivalrous, was an absolutely poor strategist who totally lost out in the end-game. What needs to be noted is that intentions (niyat) will change only after mindsets (zehiniyat) do. The time is therefore ripe for a deliberate & well-orchestrated breakout from the past.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@1.42PM: Not drastic force reductions of the type witnessed in Europe, but force restructuring & force redeployments is definitely the need of the hour. For, the kind of plans that are being talked about for raising additional IA infantry divisions are clearly unsustainable & will only serve to bankrupt India. What therefore needs to be done is a Strategic Review that in turn will spell out what needs to be done, why & how in order to make the Indian armed forces far more responsive & capable than they are today.

Gessler said...

Hello Prasunji...

1) It is known that Russia has been researching on "stealth cocoons" for carrying weapons externally on non-stealth jets for quite some time.

A related picture: - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/su30mkk2011.jpg/

Do you think such a configuration could be provided for Super-MKI too?

2) I have been surfing the net and every military infopool I know of and somewhere I heard that Super-MKI shall have new nozzles fitted for the uprated AL-31FP, which will have zig-zag tiles on the edges (like those of F-35A nozzle), can you confirm such a development?

Is it possible that Russia is developing such a system for Flankers?

3) You have said previously that Super-MKI and FGFA will have a rear-looking IRST mounted aft of the cockpit, I guess at this spot -

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/fgfawallpaper330.jpg/

I have certain doubt regarding this system - an IRST mounted there will be catching PAKFA's own engine heat, no? If much heat is
caught at such close range for extended periods, would it reduce the IRST's efficiency at catching
IR sigatures of incoming AAMs of ingressing jets in the hind at medium-to-long ranges?

4) As per Wikipedia claims, the HAL LCH has an empty weight of 2,250kgs and a MTOW of 5,800kgs. While other comparable helos like Agusta A-129 Mangusta have an empty weight of 2,530kg and an MTOW of 4,600kgs only.

Yet A-129 can carry 8 x ATGMs as standard load while LCH carries only 4 ATGMs in a usual combat load. Why is this? Do LCH's stub wings need to strengthened further or what?

The LCH TD-1 has straight wings like Apache's while TD-2 later modifications feature "bended" wings like those on Mi-35. Does the 2nd modification offer more load-carrying capacity than TD-1?

How will the wings of TD-3 look like? Do you have any idea regarding that matter?

Anonymous said...

Sir, Main thing is that there will be no force reductions. There will be no capping of strength
IA,IAF,IN are free to raise as many squadrons, induct as much hardware as it wants. Only thing is that there will be force redeployment to reduce tensions. But it is in India's greater interests that armed forces carefully plan before buying or setting up a formation so that we don't go bankrupt and our forces become hardhitting, capable, mean and high tech. But there is definitely a need for more fighters.

Thanks a lot. Will you give a URL of images of stealthy Super Sukhoi with modified intakes which was proposed. These images were there in a 2009 Force mag edition.PA & PLA are inducting more and more 3rd gen lethal tanks of built to take hits and keep on going nature contrary to our T-72 &T-90. What's the eta of your narrative ?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

Did you see the video of the 155 mm gun that TATA has showcased ? Do you recon it is as capable as other modern day howitzers like M 777 ?

Thanks,
Vikram

Anonymous said...

Prasun da,

Great work. Really love reading your comments. Thanks for all the hard work. Keep it up...

accidental loser said...

i'm aware of pgm's using dual seekers,bt i suspect there ws d mention of trimode one. i cnt find dat link ryt nw or i cud hv shared tht.
BTW, thnx fr giving guidelines fr my flare project. Bt sad thng is no1 from dassaut or iai or boeing found d idea viable.
Any ways i got a li'l doubt on APS IN CHINESE ZTG-99G MBT episode. care 2 provide details.

Anonymous said...

Sir, Final assembly line of Su-30 is in Nashik. What do you mean it was never designed for large scale production . HAL is producing 150 Suhoi. So, why isn't there latge scale production. Media says that fourteen acs are produced per annum at Nashik. Where are the aircraft wings, structure,skin panels manufactured ?

abs said...

@prasunda
If all seems rosy then lets go for it. As Pakistan has seized to become a conventional threat to India, it seems the only major worry for India would be 2
1)China and 2)Terrorism.
Therefore its highly imperative that the armed forces start practicing a doctrine vis-a-vis Pakistan with the main focus being on countering and neutralising Terrorism. I think substantive covert operations would have to take place for this.
give your thoughts in this, along with telling us if India could emerge as the dominant power in Afghanistan and CAR vis-a-vis Pakistan, China and Russia?

abs said...

^^^
Given this backdrop, let me crystal gaze into the future and the type of warfighting capability that might be required by India in the future.
1)India has to rework her strategy in combatting terrorism, with sub conventional operations becoming a major part of the operational plans of the armed forces vis-a-vis Pakistan.
2)China would remain a worry. Hence proper capability accretion is required.
3)The IOR and the stretch from the middle east to the ASEAN region, would be the position of increased rivalry between China and India.
4)India has to acquire substantial force projection capabilities in order to ensure hert economic interests in the AF-PAK and CAR region stays intact.
Could you also share your views on these?
Very Many Thanks

sachin_sathe said...

Well!!!! the MoU will not only pave the foundation for much more co-op work not just in missiles but across almost entire defense spectrum. However it will need to be monitored closely.

Regarding the Arjun, At the end of the day bulk production is the only way to not only bring the unit-costs down but also steamline supply lines which inevitably decide who wins the war just like pit-stop strategies deside victory in almost all racing events be it F1 or WTCC or WRC!!! your thoughts?

Regarding the grand strategy alot depends on Pakistan ruling elite be it army or govt or whatever to insure that the rogue elements which can create trouble are dealt with or this entire process which can finally bring peace to the south-Asian region could end up being derailed indefinitely. As for Indian side the onus will be on not to fcuk up the documentation process & state its priorities clear or it will end up getting shafted!!!

Also check-out this link:
http://aeropacific.blogspot.in/2012/12/first-indian-air-force-c-17a.html

It looks like india may order a more than 20 C-17s if the programs continuous to be on track!!!!

Raviprakash said...

in the link i have provided read the last line

http://in.news.yahoo.com/secret-warship-comes-east-coast-000000721.html

the last line reads as

"Last month, the defence ministry authorised the Vizag-based Hindustan Shipyard to make two special operations vessels, a classified project."

What kind of vessels are these..???

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Interesting Read: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Dont-be-on-the-back-foot-Those-who-seek-to-dilute-Navy-chief-Joshis-message-dont-really-understand-sea-power/articleshow/17548668.cms

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun sir,

Regarding Tejas production line, I remember then defense minister George Fernandes (around 2001 - 2002) speaking about mass producing Tejas fighters. It is even pecked at 20 fighters annually to fill in the degrading fighter squadrons and to mass replace Mig 21 fighters. Later on after commencing the flight testing phase slowly the problems slowly started to emerge out casting doubts on the credibility of the platform and its future. After that more emphasis is given to sort out the major problems associated with the fighter and fine tuning it to make it acceptable to the IAF. 10 years down the line, now things have changes so far that IAF gave Tejas rank as Mig 21++ fighter (A big blow, even though may not be entirely true). Then again embarking on Tejas MkII which actually brings Tejas closer to world class platforms with more power and speed (Hoping it even fares very well in its agility). Hope IAF listens to your reasoning and analysis on accepting Tejas MkI as a LIFT platform with fifth generation sensors and avionics (Making it a very powerful fighter cum training platform) for a smooth transition to higher capable fifth generation platforms. IAF inducting a Tejas MKI may boost its training capabilities with an aircraft which flies supersonic and can actually perform all kinds of missions which an AJT (Hawk) can not offer. It may also ensure standardization of training for IAF trainees to learn all kinds of missions on this platform (As you've mentioned) saving the service life on actual platform by cutting down training missions to a minimum possible limit. It will also give a major boost to Tejas community who can work with renowned enthusiasm on Tejas MKII and future platforms. Hoping the best for Tejas. VMT

Anonymous said...

ADA chief PS Subramanyam giving out a statement like 'We've never thought that creating a production line itself could itself be a technology it self' will certainly not help him to sell his argument when a incumbent defense minister has given out a statement almost a decade back.

Anonymous said...

HAL's incapability highlights clearly when IAF had opted to buy additional Su 30 Mki fighters (additional 40 + 42) directly from Irkut corp (When it is understood that Tejas had clearly disappointed everyone and will not be ready for induction and IAF choosing Su 30 Mki to mass produce to fill in the depleting fighters). When IAF requested HAL to increase the production capacity to 14 - 16 aircrafts per year from the current 12 aircrafts per year. Today it is still 12 Su 30mki aircrafts per year.

Anonymous said...

To accidental loser. What is your flare project ? Are there any type of flares that can decoy, confuse and jam imaging infrared seekerd. Are spectrally balanced dual uv,ir emitting flares in service with MiG-29,Su-30,Mirage 2000. Give a link where I can read about advanced flares.

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
Read your reply @ 2.45 AM. It is all about India, Pakistan, Afghanisthan, Central Asia and China. I am unable to see the connection with your caption. Any way, you have kept all of us in suspense. I am agog with curiosity. Waiting eagerly for the narrative to come, like every one else, I am sure.

Anonymous said...


1. did u say in the previous thread that we will be locked into a bilateral strategic restraint regime with Pakistan ?

2. Does this mean that programs like the Agni V and 6500 km SLBM stand cancelled under such a regime ?

3. What about the need for a credible deterrent vis a vis China ? If locked into a puny nuclear arsenal with Pak, wont we be left naked against a much larger PRC arsenal ?

4. Or is it that the strategic restraint regime allows us enough leeway to buildup our long range deterrent ?

Anonymous said...

You were right about latest avionics, local AESA & actuated IFR probe for Tejas Mk2. Subramanyam just confirmed it to Ajai Shukla!

One nugget to chew on: It will also have an indigenous INS.

F said...

Prasun,

Don't you find it ironic that so much thought and effort has been given to up-armouring MBTS to make them more survible yet all MBTs without an APS remain extremely vulnerable to top-attack missiles like Spike and Javelin? You can do away with a loader's hatch or hardened the hatch to the extent that is has to be power operated - as the Israeli's have done- but the only defence against a top attack missile remains an APS that works as advertised.

Something else that comes to mind, with the intoduction of 'wireless' top attack missiles why are countries till buying legacy SACLOS wire guided missiles? Is it solely due to range issues and because Javelin and Spike are harder to use?

Would you agree that despite the dramatic 'Passive Surveillance System' moniker, VERA and Kolchuga are to all intents and purposes a land based ESM?

Prasun, is there any truth to the reports which indicated that Turkey and Malaysia - with U.S blessing - suppled arms to the Bosnians in violation of the UN arms embargo? It seems some of these arms were smuggled in containers meant for MALBATT.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Since Tejas-Mk1 may not be so superior, so instead of 40 Nos its order shall be curtailed only up to 20 Nos. The resources saved thus can be utilized to increase the numbers of the order for the Tejas-Mk2 or even for Tejas(LIFT).

Indranil said...

Indranil Roy:

Question regarding the Tata mounted gun system? The spec sheet that you have published, is it from the Tatra 815 or the new Tata truck?

I wanted to know specifically about the "independent suspension with semi swing axles". It will be a first for an Indian-made truck (barring the BEML-Tatra 815).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: 1) I haven’t come across as yet of any such R & D work being contemplated for Super Su-30MKI. But it could well be incorporated at a future date.
2) No, not those. Instead, it will be like the type fitted on to the MiG-29OVT.
3) The FOV of the IRST will be optimised for such interferences from the exhaust nozzles. In any case, flames emanating from pulsed-rockets of within-visual-range AAMs will be far more prominently displayed by an IRST sensor than the heat-exhausts of turbofans, unless the aircraft is on full afterburner at the same time as an inbound AAM. As for BVRAAMs, IRST sensor will not be read since the RWR itself will give advanced warning right after the BVRAAM’s active seeker achieves lock-on.
4) Yes, the LCH’s stub-wings require total redesigning & re0engineering so that they can each carry 8 ATGMs. LCH TD-2’s wings offer less drag than those of LCH TD-1’s. And it is on the tips of these stub-wings that the MAWS sensors ought to be fitted, just like what China has done with its ZW-10 attack helicopter. Stub-wings of TD-3 will be the same as those of TD-2, since R & D is still taking place for the IAF’s LCH version. Don’t forget that the IAF will not surrender the LCH to the AAC because the machine is designed for ‘combat’ against UAVs & other high-flying helicopters. And the IA has not yet issued any GSQR for the LAH version of the LCH. In fact, even the Rudra’s stub-wings require redesigning & re-engineering.

To Anon@2.22PM: There will have to be force-reductions within the Army, while in case of the IAF & IN, there will have to be further growth/expansion. The IA of the future will be reqd to respond faster, farther & with far more potency. The existing 65,000-strong Rashtriya Rifles will have to be disbanded, thereby freeing up enough personnel for three Infantry Divisions. Consequently, there’s no need to raise any additional Divisions. Furthermore, it must be noted that once the LOCs & LACs are replaced by permanent demarcated international boundaries, there wonlt be any need at all for the present-day heavy forward deployments, simply because one never resorts to such deployment patterns in peacetime when duly recognized international boundaries exist. Such deployments are only reqd when there’s a temporary ceasefire line (like LoC & LAC) which can be unilaterally altered by either party using military means.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Kindly check out the narrative above.

To Anon@3.43PM: VMT.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ACCIDENTAL LOSER: The only tri-mode weapon system that’s being developed today is the JAGM. The rest, like AASM, offer a choice of different seekers, but never are all those seekers fitted on to a single PGM.

To Anon@3.55PM: Large-scale production means having an aircraft production line hat stretches out to at least 1 mile, like what Lockheed Martin once had in Fort Worth for the F-16. Most of the airframe structures of Su-30MKI are fabricated by about 40 private-sector companies. HAL only handles their final-assembly.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: Even China will cease to be a military threat since, after the demarcation of the LAC, there will be no need for either India or China to resort to heavy forward deployments of the kind that now exists. Instead, there will be a pressing need for the ground forces of both the countries to become more rapidly deployable & much greater potency in order to respond to localised limited wars/conflicts that may break out in either country’s immediate neighbourhood or in the region. Consequently, the IA will have to be far more lighter & require far more integral firepower that could be deployed within a short timeframe, i.e. the IA must be restructured for undertaking expeditionary warfare & vertical mobility operations in close cooperation with the IAF, for which the IAF too will require at least another 20 C-17A Globemaster III strategic transports to add to the 10 on order, & another 12 C-130J-30s to add to the six in service. In addition, a fleet of at least 20 aerial refuelling tankers is required, along with at least 24 12-tonne multi-role helicopters capable of undertaking CSAR missions. In other words, since India will be reqd to play the role of a regional peacemaker & guarantor of regional security (like what China now does through the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation) throughout Central Asia, East Africa, Indian Ocean & Southeast Asia (especially between Bangladesh & Myanmar), an enormous amount of money will have to be spent on acquiring force-multiplier capabilities & strategic mobility resources (like strategic transport aircraft, additional AEW & CS platforms, RSTA platforms, LPHs, SSGNs, etc). The IA in turn will have to be both air-mobile & be able of independent air-assault. The days of massed armoured thrusts will be over & instead, the need of the hour will be manoeuvre warfare being waged by superior armoured warfighting assets, plus long-range tube & rocket artillery that too will have to be air-transportable as well as be ferried by naval LPHs. In other words, the Ian of the future will be reqd to be like he US Marine Corps of today. Once this happens, there will also arise the need for a far more greater role to be played by special operations forces in diverse theatres & sub-conventional environments, much like what NATO forces are now engaged in at theatres like Afghanistan & Somalia.
As for the future of Afghanistan, the idea is to share the cake, instead of having the cake & eating all of it. It is here that China’s & India’s views have total convergence & therefore China has prevailed upon Pakistan’s military establishment to agree to sit down for a quadrilateral dialogue between China, India, Pakistan & Afghanistan (Pakistan’s civilian govt was already agreeable to this a long time ago). Russia will have a far lesser role to play since the Russians are in the midst of a military doctrinal transformation, & are hamstrung by a declining population base.
China won’t be as much of a worry as is being made out to be within the IOR, since China has already recognised & accepted India’s supremacy within the IOR. In fact, don’t be surprised if in future, one sees a quantum increase in naval cooperation between the IN & PLAN in terms of joint exercises, joint patrolling & greater exchanges of senior military personnel, such as senfing one another’s officers to each other’s higher institutions of military learning like National Defence Universities/Colleges. What China wants to avoid at all costs, especially now under the new leadership, is increased tensions in more than one theatre in its immediate neighbourhood (i.e. it can stay active in the South China Sea but it too can’t afford a two-front preoccupation). Consequently, Beijing is now in the midst of unveil ing its new ‘Look West’ policy, the pivot (in a positive sense) of which will be its bilateral relations with India.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

TO SACHIN SATHE: Not just bulk production to ensure economies of scale & financial viability of the projects, but also to set up at least two MRO hubs in central India & western India, since all armoured vehicles can’t always be seent o be heading to Medak or Avadi for 3rd- and 4th-level repair (the Army’s Base Repair Workshops can only handle 1st- & 2nd-level maintenance). In addition, regional crew training centres need to be raised & equipped with gunnery & driving simulators for armoured vehicles. WRT Pakistan, the general consensus within that country is that there ought to be total de-weaponisation of the civilian population, given the daily sectarian bloodbaths that one witnesses in places like Karachi, quitting & FATA. In other words, since the chickens have at last come home to roost, it’s time to do some urgent spring-cleaning in one’s own backyard!
The IAF will require at least 30 C-17As if it is to become a key regional player in the years to come. So, good news indeed for Uncle Sam, especially after confirmation of the selection of CH-47Fs & AH-64D LongBow Apaches.

To RAVIPRAKASH: They’re mini-submersibles meant to replace the Italian Midget submersibles.

To Anon@6.03PM: It now seems that George Fernandes knew only as much about mass-producing fourth-generation MRCAs as the present-day ADA Director does!!! It is said that there always comes a time when the best option is the one that’s the only one left on the table. This is exactly what will happen with the tandem-seat Tejas Mk1 beings elected as the most viable LIFT. Meanwhile, the latest news is that HAL has asked BAE Systems for help in redesigning the HJT-36 IJT’s airframe & reconfiguring its flight-control logic. To me it appears as just another money-wasting exercise.

TO SNTATA: I have uploaded above some new materials that too will serve to quench your thirst for new information. I will soon create a separate thread that deals with the IA’s armoured corps force modernisation challenges for the future.

To Anon@10.33PM: 1) Yes. 2) Absolutely not. Instead, it will be like the existing CBMs already in place, & will involve pledges on not having nuclear forces on hair-trigger alert, & redeploying existing assets like nuclear-capable long-range field artillery systems, NLOS-BSMs & tactical ballistic missiles further away from their present-day locations (at least 150km away that are now close to 30km/50km away from the border. 3) That will remain in place & work will continue on pre-planned continuous product improvements. 4) Of course.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.33PM: That’s all old stuff. Looks like the ‘desi’ journalists have just woken up from a deep slumber!!!
Couple of clarifications are on order, since the ‘desi’ journalist seems to have gone haywire with his explanations (due to frequent lapses in concentration):
1) Tejas Mk2 won’t enter service in 2018. The first prototypes will be delivered to IAF’s ASTE for flight certification by CEMILAC by 2018. Service-induction will take place by 2022.
2) IAF is already flying Tejas Mk1 & undertaking all weapons qualification trials as well as flight certification flights. Neither ADA nor HAL has the kind of experimental test-pilots reqdto undertake such flights & trials. Totally fucked-up ‘desi’ journalists can’t even fathom this elementary fact of life!
3) Five years is too long a time to flight-test mission/cockpit avionics suites. Three years is more realistic, considering that 95% of such avionics suites will be imported & are available off-the-shelf right now.
4) Indigenous AESA-based MMR will NOT be available until 2020. Promising to develop AESA-MMRs within five years when the country does not possess even a single semiconductor foundry is a blatant obfuscation of the reality & an insult to our intelligence. Only option is to go for something like Vixen-850.
5) Similarly, integrated EW suite has already been integrated for MiG-29UPG & Super Su-30MKI. All that remains to be done for Tejas Mk2 is handle the on-board installation issue.
6) Neither SAAB nor CASSIDIAN have the kind of panoramic AMLCD-based cockpit display architecture. Only Boeing & ELBIT Systems do & therefore, if ADA wants to save time by not trying to re-invent the wheel, it better approach HALBIT Avionics (JV between HAL & ELBIT) for a speedy & immediately available solution similar to what I had explained & illustrated earlier this year.
7) There’s nothing revolutionary about actuated systems like cockpit canopy….they already exist on MiG-29, Mirage2000, Jaguar & Su-30MKI. Wonder why no one even bothered to analyse the in-country available variety of such systems & try reverse-engineering them. This ain’t rocket science as the ADA Director is making it out to be.
8) The best & only party capable of advising ADA on how to re-engineer the Tejas Mk2 airframe in order to accept the F414 turbofan, is GE Aero Engines, followed by Boeing. Only these two OEMs can accurately specify the structural changes/modifications, especially those concerning enlargement of the twin air-intakes.
9) Not indigenous INS, but indigenous RLG-based INS (bloody ‘desi’ journalist getting confused yet again!) , this being the same one that as earlier developed for BrahMos-1, Agni-4, Agni-5 & Prahaar. Also, the RLG-INS will be coupled to a GPS receiver, just like the existing SAGEM-built Sigma-95N on Tejas Mk1, Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG, Mirage 2000UPG, Rafale & Jaguar/DARIN-3.
10) Lastly, a holographic HUD & related weapons aiming computer will also need to be developed.
A final word of advice for the ADA Director: take heed of the proposals listed above if he wants to cut down the R & D timeframe for Tejas Mk2. All the points listed above make use of ONLY common sense & not rocket science!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To INDRANIL ROY: Since the brochure has been printed by TATA Power SED, all listed specs of the truck are those of the TATA-built 8 x 8, & not of any TATRA 8 x 8 or BEML-TATRA 8 x 8. Hope this clarifies matters for you. Cheers!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To FARIS: SACLOS wire-guided ATGMs being much cheaper are also used for targetting bunkers & dug-in infantry forces, & not just armoured vehicles. Customised APS suites will proliferate in the near future since it is now financially viable to make use of AESA-based early-warning sensors. All PSS systems are essentially ESM sensors. If there is zero EM emission from any airborne platform, the PSS will be totally blind. Tha least question was replied to by me last year itself when I had explained how come Perwaja Steel had accumulated huge financial losses.

To Mr.RA 13: My thoughts exactly.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To INDRANIL ROY: The AVIOTECH report is hopelessly flawed & outdated to be used as a reference guide. It is always best to get technical/marketing feedback & confirmations directly from OEMs.

Akash Ks said...

hello,prasun what's the advantage of pif paf motors on aster 30 over conventional control in barak missile.which is more maneuverable barak 2 or aster 30 ?

Anonymous said...

Ajai Shukla Wrote

"It certainly outclasses the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) JF-17 Thunder, a light fighter like the Tejas, which Pakistan pretends to have developed jointly with China, but is actually Chinese through and through. Unlike the Tejas – a contemporary fighter made of composite materials with an advanced design and sophisticated avionics – the JF-17 is an outdated design. But the PAF has already inducted 60 of these fighters and will eventually operate 250 to 300 JF-17s, half its total fleet.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/ajai-shukla-makingtejas-fly/495170/
"

LCA is an advance design which is being redesigned as IAF is not happy with it performance

it uses sophisticated avionics many of which will be replaced in Mark II fighter as it failed to meed IAF requirements

Whay the hell he need to bring bunder into discussion

Indranil said...

Let me thank you first for the detailed report. It is great to know about this is the brochure from Tata Power SED.

I was just reading the specs of LPTA 3138 missile carrier from brochure that Tata motors distributed at Defence Expo'12. The specs listed there for the gradeability (30), top speed (80 kmph) and the vertical step climbing ability (0.5 m) are lower than the specs present here.

On the other hand, the specs presented in the latest brochure is the exact same specs of Denel gun on the Tatra 817 WN chassis.

I am happy to know that the Tata truck has equaled the Tatra truck in all respects.

P.S. The Aviotech document is just a place to start a search for the interested. I never asserted it as authoritative.

Anonymous said...

"for which the IAF too will require at least another 20 C-17A Globemaster III strategic transports to add to the 10 on order, & another 12 C-130J-30s to add to the six in service."
Its all good except India doesn't have money to purchase this much. My suggestion would be to cap the procurement of C130j and C17 to 12 and 10 respectively. All these 22 Apaches, 15 Chinook, 10 C17 and 12 C130j should be assigned to the new SF command to be formed operated by them only. Next for the IAF requirements we are already building MRTA with Russian help which could be used as the AVRO replacement, while for An32 and IL-76 we should join hands with Antonov (today we signed some MOU with Ukranians in defence and aerospace sector). We all know India is not capable of building any kind of transport aircraft at this time but we should still tie-up with them and develop a heavy transport aircraft and An32 category transport aircraft which fly under indian conditions and cost less with complete support and maintenance. I would say we should go for turboprops for both category.
The number of such aircrafts should 30+ and 125+ respectively.

Prasun can these indian versions of South african, israeli, french artillery operate under harsh indian conditions ?

How is Pipavav progress in the project to develop 5 NOPV for navy ? Are they adhering to the time or is it way too much for them and it was wrong to let a private shipyard to build a whole warship at this time ?

Whats the significance of this new MOU between BEL and IAI ? What no BEL is ready to relabel some other israeli stuff ? I hear BHEL is also entering in defence sector. Is it true ? They are building some new naval gun ? Earlier also BHEL has build some stuff for navy but in general BHEL doesn't work in defence sector.

Anonymous said...

Can't IAF ask Russia to instal the new AESA thats Russians have build for Mig29 instead of the radar thats gonna be used right now ?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun da ,

As always very poignant observation from your end . Many thanks.

Regards,
Vikram

Anonymous said...

HI Prasun,

Your revelations abt future of India-Pak relations is simply earth-shattering. Then it means there is no possibility of a conflict with China on the border issue as the border issue is resolved!

What happens to the plans for siding with the US and breaking up Pak with parts of NA being awarded to Afghanistan?
Is china pushing afghans to settle with Pak on the current border?

Will ties get normalised b/w India and China? will we behave as normal neighbours? would visa free travel be possible(could we go to that level of economic engagement)?

You talked abt land route to C.Asia -is this possible considering the route would pass through difficult terrain

Also this is shows China thinks wisely in wanting to share the C.Asian republic's riches (maybe ONGC with Chinese oil companies may win a big oil block for development in future in this region)
Thanks

Anonymous said...

TATA-Denal 155mm / 52cal - 23 liter Gun with V-LAP is 58kms not 55kms, little error was there, happy to inform..

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

So the strategic restraint regime you mention will be more in the nature of restraint in deployment and type of deployment with hardly any ceilings/transparency requirements on the number of nuclear weapons we can have (except for possible limitations on number of missiles of range, say, <1000 km) ?

accidental loser said...

to anon@6.32 pm
D concept ws 2 infuse miniature electromagnet coupled with proximity sensor & warheads into a flare or other tactical decoys.in short i ws tryin 2 devlop an aerial version of sticky magnetic mine whch wud giv a unique self defence capability 2 A/cs against Anti aircraft missiles or even hostile aircrafts posssibly (in theory @least).

accidental loser said...

to prasun'
yeah bt i wud hv luvd a reply on d APS point mor. dat's pretty much bothering me. is it only a soft kill variant or does it incorporates a hard kll mechanism as well!!!!!
regarding boeing's JDRADM dnt u thnk it's gonna tk @least 5/6 yrs mor 2 achieve suitable tech breakthrough fr joint warhead typs.

abs said...

@Prasunda
Perhaps the USA's renewed focus on the Asia-Pacific forced China to do a u-turn. The fact that its stooges, like Pakistan was increasingly becoming a failed state (if its not already one) only served to force its hands even more.
The USA seems to have done its home work and hence the recent declarations by the US about how it wants India to be the dominant power in the entire IOR region as well as the entire area stretching from the middle east to the ASEAN.

However the long term goal of China to become the dominant power in the entire Asian region, could mean an intense competition for strategic space throughout the Asian geography. I hope the IN and IA and IAF prepares accordingly.

So the UPA and the likes can pom pom these facts to counter claims by the TMC and Left as to how the USA wants to undermine India and make it one of its stooge(LOL).

Btw do read this. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-outpace-China-by-2030-US-intelligence-report/articleshow/17563980.cms

Anonymous said...

India's Look East and China's Look West. Kind of interesting development.

Prasunji, IN had place a requirement for 45 Tejas MkII MRCAs. But until now only 8 Tejas MRCAs were enlisted on IAC1. What about the remaining numbers?

Anonymous said...

Prasun da,

Will the Super Sukhoi have both internal weapons-bay like the PAK-FA and conformal weapons bay like in the Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle in future after new generation of long-range multi-mode BVRAAMs (like the Meteor) and standoff PGMs (both anti-radiation missiles & small-diameter loitering PGMs equipped with tri-mode seekers) become available in Russia by 2016?

You have once written that the IAF will look at the stealthy Su-30MKI with reconfigured air intakes and internal weapons storage in the underbelly once the above mentioned weapons become available in Russia by 2016.

A stealthy Su-30MKI with reconfigured air intakes and internal weapons storage in the underbelly like the PAK-FA and conformal weapons bay like in the Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle with AESA, front and rear end IRST, enhanced engine, three dimensional TVC nozzles like on the MiG-29OVT and probably next-generation cockpit, a new missile warning system and conformal fuel tanks will be unmatchable even by the Raptor except for the EW system. What do you say?

Will in future enclosed weapons pod (EWP)like the ones developed for the Super Hornet Block III be also developed for the Super Sukhoi to be carried under the wings? Belly mounted enclosed weapons pod (EWP)wont be necessary if internal weapons carriage is developed in the underbelly.

Will the FGFA have all of the above features including conformal weapons bay like in the Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle? Addition of conformal weapons bay will lead to increased weapons carriage without losing stealth. What do you say?

Will the Rafale in future also have such stealthy features like conformal weapons bay, reconfigured air intakes, front and rear end IRST and next-gen EW system like AN/ALE-214 integrated defensive electronic countermeasures system and AN/ALE-55 towed decoy system?

Please answer. THANK YOU.


Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun sir,

According to some reports, Construction of IAC-2 has already been commenced (Expected to be launched by 2017 - 2018 time frame and inducted by 2020) in Kochi ship yard. How can they start constructing the ship with out finalizing the detailed design parameters about how the ship would look like. Please clarify. VMT in advance.

abs said...

@prasunda
I was thinking over this, with the MOD's decision of transferring all future attack helicopter assets to the Indian Army, and thus tactical battlespace air defence fallling under the IA's responsibility, are there any possibility that the IA might also go for the LCH to cater for air defence?

Gessler said...

Sir, thanks for your previous answers very much:)

Can you tell me what company will supply the trucks/vehicles for the following types of missiles in Indian service?

1) SpyDer SAM
2) Barak-8 LRSAM
3) Akash Mk-2 SAM
4) Shaurya NLOS-BSM
5) Prahaar NLOS-BSM
6) Nirbhay LACM
7) Agni-4 IRBM
8) Agni-5 ICBM

Anonymous said...

Hi prasun sir,

Was involved in finding out more details about IAC 2 and found this article.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-defense-perspective/2012-08-10/indians-discuss-future-carrier-plans

Seems like we are again late in commencing another big project pushing the time lines even further. Sad...

Anonymous said...

Sir ,
1. Isn't ATMOS 2000 , CAESAR better than Tata SED mounted howitzer ? They have a burst fire ability of 3 rounds in 15 sec whereas the latter has a burst fire ability of 3 rounds in 18 sec.

2. What is the manner of loading projectile in this gun ? Does the operator has to manually load the projectile and charge. What is meant by semi-automatic loading ?

3. Among the four mounted howitzers which has the fastest burst firing ability ,longest range with base bleed and highest accuracy? Which gun is IA's choice ?

4. What appened to SPH? How many Paladin SPH PA posses ?

5. Will fully automated armoured wheeled gun like Archer be bought ?

6.Why is MoD only listening to DRDO ? It should also listen to COAS. DRDO will again mess up in ATAGS and will further delay modernistion.

7.The first three upgraded Mig-29 have already been delivered to IAF. Now pls tell how it has a greater wing area and redesigned wing tip.?

8. When will upgrading them at 11 Brd commence. When will the entire upgradation be completed ?

9. These acs have 6 hardpoints and not eight as you had told previously.

10.If HAL is experiencing a shortage of skilled manpower, then why doesn't MoD sent Mirages to Dassault in France instead of doing them at HAL for faster delivery.

raw13 said...

ITs not a question of if but when. Look what the current economic pressures have led Bal T to say only maratis for Bombay. In 20yrs time with shrinking resources...male/ female ratio imbalance...imagine what the local politicians would need to do to win elections. No offence but the last thing pak needs is unstable/breaking up of india to its natural states. Unlike india pak has a weak state but extremely strong civic structures. Which india doesn-t really have them, mainly due to caste situation.

bradshaw said...

Hi Prasun Da,

I heard sometime back that Spike is more prefered than Javelin ATGM.

1. How we can compare a Tripod mounted spike with a hand held and top attack missile like JAvelin?? Also, The seeker on Javelin is FPA based and much more advanced than Spike.
2. Why the IA not gone for superior KORNET-E and ordered MILAN-2's and Konkur-M instead ?

I think Kornet E is in limited service with IA. If yes , than what are the numbers ?


Anonymous said...

Sir, Why isnt HAL building a large scale production facility like the one in Fort Worth ?

Who manufactures stamped metal sheets from raw materials,assemblies,wings,structures from them ? The 40 private factories or are they shipped from Russia. Broadsword says all Sukhoi parts are sources from Russia and they are assembled by HAL.

Who will come to HAL's help in setting up a modern production line ? HAL is producing BAE Hawk. It has a modern production line.

What is taking so long for achieving FOC of Tejas mk1? Flight testing are continuing for over a year.

Why can Tejas mk2 prototype roll out in early 2014,flight tested upto 2016 and is inducted in 2017. Elta 2052 AESA will be best for it.

JEET SINGH said...

Sir can you plz tell me about the payload capacity of LCH? Can it carry 16 ATGMs(8 each side) for a limited range? Also how you judge z-10 in camparision to LCH.do you think LCH need some modification to carry more payload with a more powerful engine?

Anonymous said...

India will never get divided. There's a sense of brotherhood and unity among all Indians. We all belong to one caste and religion , Indian. If one says something , it doesn't mean that it will necessarily happen.

Anonymous said...

Sir, I have often heard that Su-30 MKI is maneuverable than F-15 at low speeds but it has less sustained & instantaneous turn rates at supersonic speeds.Is this possible ? A jet which has good handling turn rates at low speeds must also have so at supersonic speeds .pls ans.

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

How is the india-pak-china reconciliation going to affect the US in strategic sense?will India also give up sheltering the Tibetian-Govt-in-exile?

how long is the Syrian war likely to last and who is likely to outlast the other there?

how are the N.Korea/Iranian/Myanmarese nuclear pgms going?

Are there any nuke stockpiles still with the C.Asian republics?

will S.Korea/Japan themselves choose to go nuclear as China grows strong militarily/economically/diplomatically and focus on S.China sea causing these 2 neighbours to take things into own hands?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

I think at this instant the DRDO R&D offer for 155mm/52-cal advanced towed artillery gun system (ATAGS) by 2022 is counter-productive to the immediate purchase of 1800 Nos of motorized howitzers.

I feel that they should raise the tender for only 1000 Nos of motorized howitzers at the first stage. If the DRDO efforts do not turn out positively and timely, then they can place and increase the order for additional 800 Nos of motorized howitzers.

BTW, how the Caesar motorized howitzers are comparatively placed in the matters of pricing and overall financial expenditure.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

How many numbers of the 155mm/52-calibre truck-mounted howitzers the TATAs are expecting to sale to the Indonesia.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Perhaps the China wants to extend the Axai Chin road to Central Asian nations with a most important branch to the Saudi Arab.

I am afraid that at this juncture any meeting between China, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan on such matters will be equivalent to a meeting of dogs, cats, rats and frogs with all their natural attributes under full play.

India should properly talk to China only once it successfully tests its own thermonuclear device whether physically or electronically.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To INDRANIL: VMT. By the way, the total projected reqmt is for 2,520 units of MGS, since both the IA won’t be acquiring any new imported towed 155mm/52-cal howitzers (as outlined above) nor will there be any additional reqmts for wheeled SPHs or tracked SPHs, given the changed warfighting doctrines of the IA post-OP Parakram.

To Anon@10.19AM: Follow-on procurements will be made in successive tranches, therefore money isn’t a problem at all. HS-748s & An-32Bs can indeed be replaced by IL-214 MRTAs & the IL-214 MRTA also ought to be developed as a regional airliner, instead of allowing NAL to waste money on trying to re-invent the wheel by coming up with the RTA-70 regional jetliner. Also, additional IL-78MKI-90 aerial refuelling tankers (about 12 more) powered by PS-90A turbofans will be ideal.
As for foreign howitzers, yes, they all can operate under any specified conditions in India, provided they’re tweaked & fine-tuned as required, based on results of competitive user-evaluations. The way I see it, given the fact that deep advances into hostile territory are no longer be possible or envisaged (after the OP Parakram experience & against a nuclear overhang), the premium will therefore be on rapid deployment & switching of assets across various theatres in a manner that does not impede the tempo of battle. Consequently, towed & tracked howitzers (which impose logistics penalties on both roadways & railways) will have to give way to motorised 155mm/52-cal howitzers for sure. On top of that, since the Caesar uses a 6 x 6 truck as opposed to TATA’s 8 x 8, the Caesar has a clear edge over the TATA/DENEL product in terms of mobility by land & air.

As for NOPV, the problem is not Pivavav Offshore & Defence’s. It is Navy HQ that has not yet selected the NOPV’s design. As for the BEL-IAI MoU, it concerns the systems integration aspects of naval Barak-2, i.e. integrating the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR/Barak-2 combination with the Project 15A DDG’s combat management system. BHEL had licence-assembled all 76/62 naval guns & their SRGM variants for the IN’s & ICGS’ FFGs & OPVs. In fact, BHEL will be the best Indian OEM to get involved with foreign OEMs like OTOBreda to co-develop the next-generation 155mm naval guns (which the DRDO seems to have forgotten about!!!). BHEL also designed & built all the heat exchangers for S-2/Arihant.

To Anon@10.21AM: I had raised this issue last year. Logically, the Phazotron-developed Zhuk-AE AESA-MMR should have been selected for MiG-29UPG, since the Zhuk-AE was available since 2007 & the MiG-29UPG contract was inked in 2009.

To VIKRAM GUHA: VMT.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.35AM: As far as the Durand Line goes, even though Afghanistan has grave reservations about it, both China & India are of the view that this misgiving of Kabul can be overcome if Pakistan agrees to provide land-locked Afghanistan access to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea through Gwadar. To this end, as part of the grand bargain, China & India will in the near future have to officially state that they both favour the now-expired Durand Line to be re-validated as the new international border between Afghanistan & Pakistan. This is itself will be a huge favour to be extended to Pakistan by both China & India, & Pakistan will therefore have to oblige & return the favour by ensuring Indian & Chinese access to Central Asia through highways built across the Northern Areas. It is for this reason that the PLA’s Construction Corps (like India’s BRO) has been busy with such infrastructure development projects, which by no means pose any kind of military threats to India whatsoever. It is only the ignorant ‘desi’ journalists that have been raising the occasional hue-n-cry in India without understanding the true significance of all such moves/steps.
Countries like China, Japan & the US are avid practisioners of long-term strategic visioning, unlike many in India. Comprehensive peace & stability will therefore arrive only when a step-by-step approach is taken in a steady manner. Brick by brick, therefore, the confidence-levels will increase & existing political boundaries will become irrelevant like the situation that now exists within the EU.

To Anon@12.04PM: Yes indeed. Comprehensive peace & stability will therefore arrive only when a step-by-step approach is taken in a steady manner. Brick by brick, therefore, the confidence-levels will increase & existing political boundaries will become irrelevant within SAARC & between SAARC, China & Central Asia, like the situation that now exists within the EU. Only then can there be multilateral conventions & treaties pertaining to force reductions & transparency for treaty monitoring/verification purposes.

To ACCIDENTAL LOSER: All APS systems in use make use of the hard-kill option.

To ABS: Both the US & China have done their homework, as both countries are avid practioners of long-term strategic visioning, unlike India. Historically, China has always sought to predominate East Asia & therefore it even today lacks the necessary ‘cultural’ or ‘civilisational’ tools reqd for building enduring bridges with Central Asian or South Asian states. It is here that India can play a dominant role, something which China has already recognised & has therefore decided to develop convergences, instead of divergences, with India as part of its soon-to-be-unveilled ‘Look West’ policy initiative. AS for TMC or Left Front, they’ve become irrelevant in this day & age. In fact, the Congress will be extremely stupid if now it does not start being pro-active & actively pursue a goal of returning back to power in WB.
As for air-defence of tactical battlespace, all Rudra helicopter-gunships will be armed with Mistral ATAM AAMs, as will the RSH helicopters. The Apaches will have Stinger AAMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@1.51PM: The remaining LCA (Navy) Mk2s will be employed for maritime strike & other MRCA tasks out of shore-based air bases like those in the Andaman & Nicobar Islands & throughout southern & eastern peninsular India.

To Anon@2.06PM: No conformal bays or internal bays for Super Su-30MKI. The FGFA will have them all. But stealthy underwing ‘cocoons’ or EWPs housing PGMs are now being developed in Russia & France for existing combat aircraft like Su-30MKI & Rafale.

To Anon@3.19PM: That’s the IAC-1 that’s being built in Kochi by CSL, not IAC-2.
To GESSLER: For nos 1 to 6, TATA Motors is the most probable supplier as substitutes for BEML/TATRA high-mobility trucks. If competitive bids are reqd, then Ashok Leyland teamed with Krauss-Maffei Wegmann will become another contender. For cannisterised Agni-4 & Agni-5, the TEL’s design will have to be imported, most probably from Belarus (like what the Chinese have done), or from Russia.

To Anon@7.32PM: IAC-2 can wait. Instead, priority should be accorded to the construction of IAC-1 and the four LPHs.

To Anon@8.34PM: Of all the existing contenders, the Caesar is the best as it uses a 6 x 6 low-silhouette truck that can easily fit into even the C-130J-30. Semi-automatic loading means someone has to manually activate the 3-round autoloading crane similar to what exists on the FH-77B. IA doesn’t yet know which gun it will choose, hence its inclination to hold in-country competitive firing/mobility trials. Tracked SPHs are no longer relevant for future battlefields as they will present the same kind of logistical problems as those associated with heavy MBTs like Arjun Mk1/Mk1A. Tracked SPHs are reqd only when deep thrusts are reqd to be made into hostile territory. In the Indian context, this is no longer possible against either Pakistan or India, given the nuclear overhang. Archer MGS is quite expensive as it features very high degrees of automation which is all good for those countries with limited manpower availability. For countries like India, such high automation levels are unnecessary & avoidable. Photots of MiG-29UPG clearly show extended wing-roots & redesigned wingtips. Remaining MiG-29s will be upgraded by 2017. In place of the centerline fuel-tank two BVRAAMs can be carried. That makes 8 hardpoints.

To RAW13: If indeed there were strong civic structures or even strong religious structures within Pakistan, then one wouldn’t have witnessed the kind of sectarian bloodbaths that Karachi had been witnessing since the early 1980s. Fact remains that the caste divide persists within Pakistan till this day since cultural influences always predominate religious influences. And that is exactly what is perpetuating the feudal social structure within Pakistan today.

To BRADSHAW: That’s why I had said earlier that Javelin ATGM is the preferred choice due to its superior characteristics. Only 1,400 Kornet-Es & 200+ launchers were acquired by 2007. Milan-2T & Konkurs-M with tandem warheads are still effective against the MBTs in India’s neighbourhood.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@11.17PM: Stamped metal sheets come directly from Russia. The machining is done in-country by private-sector firms. BROADSWORD has no idea what’s at stake as far as military-industrial competencies & capacities go. For that one needs to go & talk to OEMs & observe what’s shown during aerospace/defence expos. Merely attending press-conferences & aimlessly wandering around will only produce brainfarts! The best & most logical party that can help HAL create a state-of-the-art aircraft production line will be Dassault Aviation, since that is exactly what’s reqd for the Rafale M-MRCA’s licenced-production as well. Therefore, why not kill two birds with one stone?

To JEET SINGH: Look at any poster of the LCH & you’ll see that anti-armour operations is the last mission to be mentioned. That alone will give you a very good idea about the unsuitability of the LCH for anti-armour operations. Now, if you want the LCH to morphe into a LAH, that’s doable by designing heavier & stretched stub-wings, which will enable the LAH to carry at least 8 medium-range ATGMs like PARS-3LR or Spike-ER, plus four AAMs like Mistral ATAM or four DAGR-type PGMs. Powerplant ratings will stay the same.

To Anon@12.32AM: India-China rapproachment will not affect the US. The US is most concerned about the situation in the Western Pacific & South China Sea as it has imp0lications for US-ASEAN & US-Japan relationships. As for Syria, the bottomline is money. Whichever party has the longest sustaining power will prevail. In this case, with almost the entire Arab world, especially the rich GCC member-states, all supporting the Syrian rebels, & with Iran being strangulated by the US, UAE & Turkey, there’s very little that Iran can do to shore up a friendly Shia regime in Damascus. Myanmar has already stated that it will in the near future come clean on its nuclear ambitions. From DPRK Myanmar has already received some Nodong-1s & heavy MBRLs. There are no worthwhile stocks of WMDs in any of the Central Asian Republics. Both ROK & Japan have no reason to go nuclear since both very much still enjoy the US’ nuclear umbrella. In fact, in ROK, there is a UN military presence there, so Seoul has nothing to worry about.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: The only & best option for 155mm towed howitzers is to upgrade 800 existing 130mm M-46s to 155mm/45-cal standard & the best party to do this is Kalyani Group (its Project KARAN) teamed up with ELBIT Systems (I’ll create a new thread only for this very topic next week). This project can be completed by 2017. At the same time, the indigenous 155mm/45-cal FHX45 now undergoing prototype-testing at PEE Balasore needs to be put to production, with 414 units being delivered by 2017. For this venture, OFB, BEL & DRDO are already involved. As for motorised howitzers, the total projected reqmt is for 2,520 units of MGS, since both the IA won’t be acquiring any new imported towed 155mm/52-cal howitzers (as outlined above) nor will there be any additional reqmts for wheeled SPHs or tracked SPHs, given the changed warfighting doctrines of the IA post-OP Parakram. It is due to this reality that private-sector firms like TATA Power SED are quite gung-ho about the potential motorised howitzer market. The Caesar, in terms of operational capabilities, pricing & combat effectiveness, is the first among equals, since it is already in series-production right now, it has already achieved export successes, it is the only one to be air-transportable by C-130J-30-type aircraft, & it has also been combat-proven in the high-altitude battlefields of Afghanistan—something to be noted by an IA HQ that wants to plug some critical gaps that now exist throughout the LAC.
Indonesia has a reqmt for 36 motorised 155mm/52-cal howitzers.
Both India & China have covered a lot of ground & developed several convergences in behind-the-scene diplomatic negotiations. As for the dictum of ‘strength respecting only strength’, that too has been achieved with India’s credible demonstration of 150 kiloton boosted-fission weapons (which are easily scalable up to 500 kilotons)—something that definitely has Beijing’s attention.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@7.50AM: are yaar, new ‘desi’ journalists on the block can be expected to routinely function as ‘brainfarts’! Now just look at the mistakes in his reportage:
“It certainly outclasses the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) JF-17 Thunder...... JF-17 is an outdated design”
How can a Mach 1.6 MRCA outclass a Mach 1.8 MRCA? Secondly, Tejas Mk1 is still undergoing flight certification/weapons qualification trials, while the JF-17 is already operational with AAMs like PL-5E & SD-10A AAMs & C-802A ASCMs. JF-17’s cockpit ergonomics are almost exact replicas as those of JAS-39A/B Gripen. Furthermore, JF-17 has been under development since 1986. It was first born as the Super Sabre, then re-born as Super 7 by 1993 & finally morphed into JF-17 by 2003. In comparison the Tejas took off in 2001 & morphed into Tejas Mk1 by 2007 & by 2016 will become Tejas Mk2.

“Indian Army sticks with the decrepit, night-blind Russian T-72 tank rather than embracing the far more capable and modern Arjun.”
Highly surprising that a former T-72 commander can make such shameless remarks! All Soviet-era MBTs since the late 1960s have been equipped with active IR searchlights & the T-72 is no exception. So how can the T-72 be night-blind?

“Just as the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi (HVF), mismanaged by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), causes the army to believe that the Arjun is unreliable; similarly Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a public sector undertaking under the defence ministry (MoD), makes the IAF sceptical about the Tejas.”
This is the height of stupidy!!! Unreliability has never been an issue with Arjun Mk1. Instead, the problem has been poor product-support primarily due to A) the MoD’s decision not authorise in a timely manner the creation of additional regional product-support/spares stockpiling warehouses & crew-training centres in western & central India. B) The MoD’s carelessness due to which the Army HQ’s MGO Branch was not involved with the Arjun Mk1’s user-evaluations. And it is not HAL that makes the IAF sceptical about Tejas, but the MoD. HAL’s CMD is answerable to the MoD’s Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies & therefore HAL’s CMD cannot issue any advice or directives to anyone in the IAF with the approval of the MoD’s Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies.

“HAL is ill-inclined to engage in the messy business of setting up an assembly line for the indigenous Tejas. HAL gets away with its disinterest in the Tejas thanks to its cosy relationship with the MoD.”
Of course, it will be, since HAL has other well-intentioned financial priorities. If HAL’s management is freed from the MoD’s shakles & given financial autonomy, then & then only will HAL’s management rise up to the challenges & become pro-active.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

continued from above....
“HAL must work with ADA to set up the Tejas Mark I assembly line and to churn out the aircraft in numbers.”
Leave alone HAL, no self-respecting management of any aircraft production OEM will ever set up a huge state-of-the-art final-assembly line for producing only 40 Tejas Mk1 MRCAs. Bulk orders are necessary for amortising the series-production costs & therefore no less than 100 Tejas Mk1 tandem-seaters are reqd to be produced for meeting the IAF’s LIFT reqmts. Only 20 Tejas Mk1 single-seaters ought to be produced for the IAF so that the IAF & CEMILAC can both gain enough experience in flight-certifying a home-grown MRCA, which will then come in handy for doing the same for Tejas Mk1 LIFT & subsequently the Tejas Mk2 MRCA.

"HAL must be held to high production standards and low production costs."
One can’t have the cake & eat it as well. High production standards will always translate into high production costs. The idea therefore should be to share the financial burden by appointing, mentoring & nurturing at least 200 private-sector vendors/SMEs that ought to become long-term members of the Tejas-specific supplier-chain & they should also be assured of similar sub-contracts for the Rafale M-MRCA, RSH helicopter, IL-214 MRTA, LCH & FGFA production programmes.

To AKASH KS: PIF-PAF is the patented technology for Aster-15/30 SAMs’ rocket boosters & the same type of technology employed for thrust vectoring has also been incorporated on board the barak-2/Barak-8. Therefore, both Aster & Barak SAM families are highly manoeuvrable.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Sengupta,
Please consider changing the colors of your website. Dark background with lighter color for fonts is harder to read, especially when there is no daylight. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Don't you think drdo has the right to chose the production partner ? Also why doesn't drdo capitalise on it ? Suppose for example drdo is developing Prahar system. IA places an order for 500 missiles and 50 launchers. Now TATA and BEL are gonna build the TEL and elctronics while BDL will build the missiles. Now drdo should have 5-10% stake in this project in return of the right for sales of this project, so that whatever money is made by selling Prahar, 5-10% goes to DRDO. Similarly before handing such project drdo should be the one to decide who should build, so drdo can call for proposal for all qualified manufacturers and whoever gives the best share to drdo should be selected by drdo. The money obtained by this could be used to fund Phd level courses in IIT and IISc and dredo could with the help of other defence sector companies set up defence and aerospace university which could produce engineers and scientists according to indian defence sector need. Apart from this, this way drdo can get money to support its RnD.
This way drdo could have made hugemoney in projects like Akash.

What is the requirement of Prahaar in indian armed forces ? I mean after successful trials how many such systems will be acquired by IA ? Same goes for Nirbhay and Prahar missile ?

Are we gonna see a land variant of K4 just like land variant of K15 was Shaurya ? I am asking this because K series missiles are compact and therefore easier in transportation.

Can you tell approximately how much the HAL's LCH and LUH/LOH is goona cost per unit ?

HAL has started to work on IJT project again. If produced successfully is IAF gonna purchase it ? HAL really lost big time, because timely completion of projects like IJT (200+), BTT(105+),LUH/LOH (350+) would have generated alot of money for HAL and these projects were achievable but instead HAL concentrated only on playing LEGO with Eurpean and Russian companies.

By the way, i have to say, the point that Mr.Ajay SHukla was trying to make was somewhat right. The manufacturing sector in india is very poor especially the defence public sector companies where automation hasn't reached properly. Companies like Lnt or hell give some the share to Japanese companies. Oil and Power are out of government clout or else because of vote bank government would have drowned those companies also but the reason for that is most likely the disinvestment. I think OFB is the biggest loser of all and its time that we bring some changes there. They can't even build a decent assault rifle, even Myanmar has build one. For that also they want ToT and i will bet that even after that they will mess up.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

Is it possible to integrate Rafael's SPICE 250 guidance kit to the Pinaka ?

Thanks,
Vikram

Anonymous said...

DRDO is planning ATAGSn and they are holding talks with private companies and suppliers. What do you think the features of advanced towed artillery gun system ?
I think if we are talking about futuristic then the gun should have highest firing range, fastest rate of fire without having any effect of barrel, lightest in weight, longer life and operable even in temperatures and altitude like that of Siachen.

Is IN planning to induct any Submarine rescue ship ? Whats the progress of 9 minesweeper from korea?

You talked about the design of NOPV not finalised yet by IN. What are those models that are been shown in various expos ? Also is the GSL design gonna be different from Pipavav ?

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun sir,

Russia in discussions/talks with India on Joint development of 'Next Generation Aircraft Carriers' for both Russian and Indian Navies. A nuclear powered and more capable aircraft carrier design. Was this proposal a good option for Indian Navy prasunji. VMT in advance.

abs said...

@Prasunda
Im all for the economic integration of the extended South Asian region.
It would have enormous benefits for India economically and strategically. However an EU like scenario seems like too far fetched now.
Force redeployments could be done, however reduction of force levels without a substantial upping of the combat potential to match China's, would mean that India has forfeited the race of Asian dominance to the Chinese. Right now the window of opportunity remains till 2050-2060 for India and for China the window of opportunity for growth would be from now to 2035.
Given what the behind the scenes bilateral meetings have been able to achieve,
1)Why is it that none of the people at the helm bother about spilling the beans before the entire nation. Afterall such plans as Musharraf's 4-point formula would need extensive consensus and the idea has to set into all the Indians.
2)Could you give a few details as to how you can be so sure about all these things happening behind the scenes, with the entire desi media busy brainfarting?

being from Bengal, I hope someone as dynamic as Narendra Modi becomes the CM, to propel Bengal's GSDP to 15% something the TMC government certainly dreamt of, bu could not ever achieve.

raw13 said...

If you are talking about karachi of 1980, that was all about muhajars verses the rest. Muhajars were never given respect as men! In Pakistan courage and fighting for your honour is respected above all else!!! Now it is 30+yrs later the situation has completely changed. Have a read through this book, you can find soft copies of it on the net. It will give you some idea of pakistan society today, what no indian ever understood and kept dreaming of breakup :-). No clan/tribe in pakistan accepts the superioty of another, even when out numbered!!! However currently this is being threatened because islam is over-riding these clan/tribe structures. It is why you will find sunni from the same clan/tribe killing shia from the same tribe (eg gakkars/bangash).

http://www.amazon.com/Pakistan-Hard-Country-Anatol-Lieven/dp/1610391454

Pak links with CA are cultural, genetic as well as religious (read Hanafi here!). Only Turkey and Pakistan matetr here. A few years ago an Uzbek President even suggested Pak, Afghan and Uzbek should be one country, off course under Uzbek control :-). This gives you an idea of how the thinking is going. There is no india/china here. All the routes are through Pak, i am not talking about physical routes either!

China has been Paks friend and will be but they also know that we always look after our interests first and foremost, regardless of cost and we never budge. USA + NATO are more powerful than China, India, Russia combined and have contributed more to Pak state than any other. Now if Pak can stick two fingers up to them do you think these three matter, if our interests are being impacted!!! Not only that we can seriously screw these three at home too. And we have a record of replying and pre-empting when provoked.

Anonymous said...

sir ,
what is this new RSH helicopter ?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

To: raw13, December 12, 2012 3:15 PM

Beautiful. Keep it up.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: Information from mass-media agencies in India has been coming out in dribs & drabs, but nothing has so far emerged in terms of joining all the dots together to get the big picture. The few weblinks below illustrate this:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/chinas-new-look-west-policy-to-give-primacy-to-india-expert/1025153/0

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-09-09/middle-east/33713210_1_trilateral-dialogue-china-and-pakistan-afghanistan

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article3516240.ece

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/what-chinas-transition-means-for-india/article4156961.ece

Also, do watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FOWMLQDrjM

Gessler said...

Hello Prasun ji, here;s what I have found on the net -

“In fact we are readying to conduct a developmental trial of K-15 from a pontoon (replica of a submarine) on November 20 which will be followed by the first trial of the missile from a submarine on November 30 off the Vizag coast. The missile is being integrated to be fired from the indigenously developed Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV),” informed the source.

From here: - http://newindianexpress.com/nation/article1322295.ece

What the heck is going on, sarge?

Its likely the launch dates may have been delayed but the news is saying that ATV is readying to launch K-15!

The most recent news says K-15 test from submarine will be conducted on December 17.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: The Narendra Modi-model won’t work for WB, since WB’s future is intrinsically linked with those of Sikkim & the six northeastern States & Bangladesh & even possibly Myanmar, i.e. WB has to serve as the engine of growth for not only itself, but also for Sikkim & the northeastern states. In this sense, WB is a lot more luckier than Gujarat because it has a far larger geographic footprint to both exploit & mentor. But alas, the powers-that-be at the helm of affairs in WB don’t even have a clue about how to proceed ahead. That’s the sad part.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: What's going on? Just the usual 'desi' brainfarts that are touted as 'exclusive news. How can anything be ever fired from the Arihant when the SSBN's sea trials haven't even begun??? It is only during the sea-trials that the Arihant's balancing/buoyancy/max depoth diving parameters will be fixed & validated (over a nine-month period at the very least) & only AFTER that will weapons-launch trials be conducted. So, if you do the math & adhere to time-tested laws of physics, then the first K-15 test-firing from Arihant is likely to take place only sometime in 2014.

Anonymous said...

Sir, I was wrong. Caesar doesn't have burst fire ability of 3 rounds in 15 sec. It doesn't have a handling crane like Bofors. Only the charge is rammed. Just being air-transportable doesn't make it the best. Atmos and Denel are good. Why will it take so much time to upgrade 60 MiG-29 ? By how much is their TTSL extended ? You reported in 2009 MiG-29UPG thread that MiG-29UPG will have 4 hardpoints in the wing like MiG-29K. What are the projections in the vertical tails for ? Which version of ELT-568 it has ? Why can't the bulk upgradation of Mirage 2000 carried out in France ?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Perhaps some parts of Bengal grew fastest in the days of imperialistic capitalism under the hegemony of East India Company. So the terms like 'capitalism' and 'exploitation' have gathered so much hate there that all the leftists and even the rightists seem to detest the capitalistic growth until now. Now if they start talking less and working more hours, they too can develop fast.

Gessler said...

Hello sir, thanks for clarifying that bit up!

1) Does Russia have any intention to sell off the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier after 2020?

India could buy it, refurbish it in-house (with exp. gained in Vikramaditya operation & building of IAC-1), and fly navalised Super-MKI from it?

2) What is Russia's progress on the Comrade Stanislav-class aircraft carrier?

3) What do you think could be the better AEW&C aircraft to operate from IAC-2? E-2D Advanced Hawkeye or the Antonov An-71 jet aircraft fitted with a Israeli Phalcon radar?

4) Any plans for indigenous LPH/LPDs after building 2 foreign-design ones in Indian shipyards.

5) Latest news says IN has ordered a 2nd follow-on cadet training vessel from ABG Shipyard. When will the first one be commissioned? How much time does ABG take to deliver a 2nd ship of the same class?

Can you provide me some info about this 4,000-ton training ship? A picture of the CTV I saw on Trishul sometime ago showed 2 x 76mm guns in the front.

6) What is the probability that HAL will develop an LAH version of LCH for fulfilling IA's anti-armor roles? Do you think its possible in the next 2 years?

7) Any progress on Rustom-II UAV? What is the maximum flatout thrust of the Laghu Shakti turbofan?

Has development work on Laghu Shakti-powered Indian HALE-UAV begun? What is it called?

8) Do you think India is building more nukes? How many could we possibly stockpile by 2020?

Anonymous said...

Prasun please taKE A LOOK AT THIS...

India wants license to produce Iron Dome ?????
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000805691&fid=1725

"Current Israeli-Indian projects include development of a medium-range ballistic missile and development of a long-range ballistic missile at a combined cost of $2 billion. The two countries are also developing a ground-to-ground missile. India media reports say that this is a program of India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), but that, in practice, Israel is a partner through three companies: Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. (IAI) (TASE: ARSP.B1), its subsidiary Elta Sytems Ltd., and Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd., according to sources quoted by "Defense News". "

Are they talking about Agni series ?

"Shani and Sharma discussed extending the range of this missile from 1,000 kilometers to 3,000 kilometers."
Is this one about K-15 or Shaurya ?

Anonymous said...

"The list of future projects discussed included a plan to develop aircraft-launched micro-satellites, and plans to develop laser-guided missiles and munitions. According to an Israeli defense source, other possible plans include specialized radar systems, such as an airborne system for Indian-made light combat planes, and a long-range system for tracking ballistic missiles."
My guess is they are talking about possible israeli help in :
1) Avatar project (ISRO)
2) Sudarshan LGB and may be laser guided munition for 155mm artillery ?
3) AESA for LCA mk2(the one drdo is claiming to build in record time)
4) Radar for second phase of BMD program.

Am i right ?

sntata said...

Dear Prasun
First of all let me admit that I am no great expert on geopolitics. But I am really agitated at the latest trend of rapprochement with China and Pakistan on China's terms. What about the ingrained Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistani genes? If the borders become open will they not inundate India with wild-eyed terrorists? What about China's none too subtle ambitions of dominating Asia and of taking on US after 2050? What about China's xenophobic nationalism, in no way different from Nazi nationalism? How can a dictatorial regime, intolerant of freedom and fundamental rights to its own people as well as its ethnic minorities, respect its treaty commitments with other nations, in decades to come? The whole thing appears to me as China's grand scheme to lull India into complacency and secure its southern flank to take on US in not too distant future. Already US is having jitters on this futuristic scenario. Our best bet according to me, conceding once again that I am no great expert on geopolitics, is is to ally with US, a democratic, free nation like us, whole hog.

Rahul said...

Hi Prasun, Isn't 25 escort jamming pods too small for an airforce of our size ? Are more to be bought ?

Among all MGS systems ATMOS 2000 is the best followed by Denel. Caesar dosent have a semi-automatic firing ability. It does away with cranes and other things and that's why its light. When will IA reveal its field artillery requirement , ow many adifferent aystems are to be procured and in what nos ? Does IA has any interest with breech loading automated mortar systems mounted on BMP-2 and a light automated mortar for light trucks,jeeps.

4th prototype of PAK-FA was unveiled. What are the various airframe,structural ,external shaping changes in this prototype over the previous ones ? What are the improvements ? Externally it seems to be identical to the rest. There are no much needed VLO shapings in this prototype. It is still unstealthy.

Looks like IA is hard in talks with IAI for Iron Dome.

Unknown said...

Sir, will the MIG-29UPG come with TOPSIGHT HMDS? I have heard recenlty that it will get some basic Russian HMS, is this true? I thought it had been confirmed it would be the TOPSIGHT HMDS for the MIG-29UPG?

Anonymous said...

Raw 13 @Dec 12.
As always typical delusions:

>Pak having something to do with Central Asia!Apart from Pak never hear anybody else stress that heritage.
>Wonder how you forget that in 1948 there was something called East Pakistan that had little to do with CA or Islamic solidarity itself
>What really binds Pak
together is something called India!
>Another hilarious illusion is that Pak can actually show someone a finger!
Whatever Pak does is what its been allowed to do!
The moment either US says boo,Kiyani does a double take that would shame even the best of gymnasts!

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

When did India demonstrate 150 kt boosted fission scalable to 500 kt ? According to Dr. K. Santhanam, the thermonuclear test worked only partially (boosted fission primary worked) , but that boosted fission devive was only about 20kt going by open sources.

So, how can they extrapolate to 150 kt or 500 kt ? Isnt a new round of tests, i.e, Pokhran 3 necessary for a more credible deterrent ?

Anonymous said...

http://idrw.org/?p=16548

your opinion

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@8.26AM: DRDO can’t designate a production partner because it is not mandated to do so. This is the task of the MoD’s Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies, but since he is also a Board-Member of all DPSUs, he will naturally vote in favour of a DPSU getting the production contract. Therefore, in order to create a level playing field, the Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies should be transformed into Secretary for Military-Industrial Infrastructure. There’s no need for DRDO to take any financial stakes in any production programme, nor is there a need for DRDO to fund Phd-level courses since all the Phd-holders, after getting their degrees, will straightaway go abroad. India requires at least 3,000 Prahaar-type NLOS-BSMs, along with 60 air-launched Nirbhays & 120 Nirbhay SLCMs. There’s no reqmt for land-launched K-4 MRBM as yet. Per-unit costs of LCH & RSH helicopters are not yet known. The IJT is outlived its usefulness & is not reqd, since no other air force in the world uses BTTs, IJT & AJTs. They use only BTTs, AJTs & LIFTs. Prociring IJTs will be a sheer waste of resources & therefore the money saved by cancelling the IJT should be re-invested in a Tejas Mk1 LIFT programme.
Military-industrial production infrastructure is of poor quality in India only because all the DPSUs are being prevented from clinching industrial partnerships with advanced OEMs abroad. Such partnerships can only be forged if 49% divestment is allowed by the MoD. This very simple & most elementary point is the one that the ‘desi’ journalists have still not grasped. Has this happened in the mid-1990s, then today the HTT-35 BTT, for instance, for have been in service with the IAF & IN, & there would have been no need to import PC-7 Mk2s.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Pinaka Mk1 is an area saturation system, & was never meant to be a precision-strike PGM. Spice 250 guidance kit is for precision-guidance, much like what’s being used for Popeye Lite PGM.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.02AM: ATAGS project is again a sheer waste of money & resources at a time when the IA wants self-propelled howitzers. Bulky ATAGS using tow-trucks is today viewed as a liability for future battlefields where manoeuvre warfare will create enormous demands for highly mobile 155mm/52-cal motorised howitzers & air-mobile 155mm/39-cal howitzers. Fastest firing rate is not as important as MRSI capability. No artillery guns are deployed along any glacier, they’re always at the base camps at lower altitudes. There’s a reqmt for 2 submarine tenders. MCMV deal with Kangnam Shipyard has yet to be signed. Illustration of NOPV shown by Pipavav at DEFEXPO 2012 was just a generic design. GSL’s NOPV is lighter than the NOPV that’s reqd from Pipavav.

To Anon@12.40PM: There are two options for IAC-2: DCNS’ proposal for a nuclear-powered CVN, & the latest Russian offer. Even the Russians are likely to approach France for technical assistance & design consultancy. Therefore, it will make economic sense for India to join hands with Russia & France to co-develop a 65,000-tonne nuclear-powered CVN.

To RAW13: I’m not referring to the Mohajirs versus the rest of Pakistanis, but the Sunni-Shia proxy war that was imported from the Middle East to Karachi, due to an over-arching & totally illogical inclination to drag the rest of the world’s problems into Pakistan (sare jahaan ka dard ghisatke apne jigar ke upar le aao). This proxy war has today spread throughout the rest of Pakistan & therefore such sectarian divides between various communities are hampering the formation of a cohesive society (Kaum), despite the best efforts by Pakistan’s military establishment since the mid-1960s to condition the average Pakistan into thinking day-and-night only about Afghanistan & India, and not about Pakistan at all. Then there’s another misplaced inclination to place Pakistan & Turkey on the same plate, because that amounts to mixing petrol with diesel. Turkey already had a civilisation to boast of & has therefore always been leagues ahead of Pakistan when it comes to mental maturity. The land that today constitutes Pakistan, on the other hand, has, since the days of Moh Bin Qasim, been exposed to only misery, aggressions & bloodbaths unleashed by first the Arabs, then the Turks, then the Central Asians, then Afghanistan & finally by Iran. In short, Muslims annihilating fellow Muslims with no end in sight even today. And who ever from Pakistan showed how many fingers to the US or NATO? If anyone did, then those fingers surely got royally chopped the day Islamabad re-opened the NATO supply-routes.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@3.28PM: It’s the same as LOH/LUH.

To Mr.RA 13: Unfortunately for RAW13, he won’t be able to, since he does not possess the wisdom to visualise the end-state of his dreams & desires (which I assure you will most certainly not be the 72 waiting-to-be-fucked virgins in his afterlife!!!).

To Anon@7.37PM: Way back in 2001 I myself witnessed the Caesar achieving MRSI burst-fire capability without the need for any ammo-handling crane.

To GESSLER: 1) Even if it wants to, India ought to reject it, as it will be far less capable than even the IAC-1! Far better therefore to focus on co-developing a 65,000-tonne CVN. 2) Dunno. 3) E-2D Hawkeye 2000 for sure. An-71 AEW just isn’t a proven design. 4) Present plans call for procuring only 4 LPHs. 5) First ABG Shipyard-built Sea cadet Training Ship should be commissioned later next year. 2nd vessel should be delivered within a 3.5-year period. The visual of the ship uploaded in my DEFEXPO 2012 thread last April clearly lists out the specs. 6) Next two years is impossible. First the Army HQ must draft the GSQR for the LAH. This task alone will take two years, following which HAL will take 18 months to redesign the stub-wings & another two years to build two prototypes. 7) Thrust-level of Laghu Shakthi is 400kgf as given in the poster I had previously uploaded. Platform for this turbofan has yet to be designed. 8) That is an on-going process. By 2020 there could well be 150 warheads of all types.

To Anon@8.48PM: That is a highly speculative report with plenty of misrepresentations. Firstly, Iron Dome has been on offer to India since 2007, but never David’s Sling. Iron Dome was first showcased during Aero India 2007 & 2009 & 2011, & during DEFEXPO 2008, 2010 & 2012. The Iron Dome’s Tamir SAM in its present form is unsuitable for intercepting 300mm MBRLs of the type pitted against India & therefore the Tamir needs some enhancement, which is entirely possible from a technological standpoint. The command-and-control elements of Iron Dome are already in service with the IAF, courtesy the EL/M-2084 Arudhra MMR & therefore the capabilities are well-known to the DRDO as well. Consequently, all that’s now reqd is enhancing the Tamir element of Iron Dome & integrating the entire system with the Army’s ADC & RS & one will get an excellent anti-MBRL interceptor. When it comes to intercepting NLOS-BSMs--particularly the depressed trajectory-types, the Barak-2, not David’s Sling, will be the preferred choice purely based on logic. That’s the reason why David’s Sling has never been showcased by RAFAEL during any expo in India. The other claim about surface-to-surface ballistic missiles being co-developed is pure baloney. The only ‘strategic’ missile that is being co-developed by both countries is the air-launched LRCM/Air-Delivered Munition. Both the AD-1/AD-2 will not make use of the EL/M-2080 Green Pine LRTR, instead an enhanced, larger version of the EL/M-2258 with four distributed AESA arrays has been found by the DRDO to be more desirable for use as the LRTR. Lastly, there's already on-going joint military-industrial cooperation for developing directed-energy weapons such as battlefield PGM interceptors. Laser-guided 81mm & 120mm mortar rounds are also reqd & are probably being co-developed.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SNTATA: No rapproachment is taking place on China’s terms. On the contrary, as I had earlier explained, rapproachment is taking place only in areas where there’s a great degree of strategic convergence. One can perhaps call it a coalition of the willing on an issue-by-issue basis. But by no means does it mean that India has dropped lock-stock & barrel into a Chinese basket. China’s traditional security concerns have been & will be in East Asia & the Western Pacific & even in the next 50 years I don’t foresee China overtaking the US in all spheres of human innovation. I can understand your fears & apprehensions & can gauge their sources as well, but one has to move on forward with self-confidence & a sense of self-esteem instead of being traumatized by past events, like the 1962 border conflict. BY the way, are you aware of the hundreds of Indian students from all over India that go to Kunming every year to secure their MBBS degrees? Does it mean that Indian patients abhor all those China-trained medical practitioners?
And if indeed there was any ingrained Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistani genes, then believe me, Pakistan by now would have been a prosperous, highly civilised & enlightened state. However, the fact remains, that hardly any of Islam’s fundamental tenets are being adhered to in Pakistan right now. What’s being adhered to are deviant misinterpretations of the brotherhood of Islam, which in turn have only resulted in one Muslim community being pitted against another. It is to guard against these tendencies that Pakistan’s educated civil society is now looking increasingly toward India for inspiration & support, sentiments that are being echoed every day on various Pakistani TV channels’ current-affairs programmes.

To RAHUL: Of course, more will be bought, bit these pods aren’t exactly that difficult to design & fabricate & I therefore wonder why CABS or LRDE or DARE isn’t developing them in-house. So far only two systems—Tusker jammer & SIVS DF pod—have come from the DRDO. Way back in 2001 I myself witnessed the Caesar achieving MRSI burst-fire capability without the need for any ammo-handling crane. I have already mentioned the number of howitzers reqd by the IA in one of my comments above. Breech-loading 120mm mortars are also reqd by IA, but no RFI has been issued to date. For developing any FGFA, there must be at least five flying prototypes & one for fatigue-testing.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN: No. TopSight is only for MiG-29K. MiG-29UPGs & Su-30MKIs still use the Sura-M HMDS.

To Anon@11.15PM: What India tested in May 1998 were devices, i.e. scalable designs of fissile cores integrated with their respective trigger mechanisms. Once the basic principle of the design & its robustness has been proven along & the physics of the chain-reaction has been recorded & fully validated, up-scaling or down-scaling the yield can be done with ease & with no risk.

To Anon@1.53AM: The arguments are flawed. Firstly, India does not need to ink any kind of Communications Interoperability and Security Agreement simply because India has her own national secure modes (NSMs) & encryption algorithmns for speech/data secrecy networks & IFF systems & therefore does not have any reqmt to import them. Secondly, the writer assumes that in the event of China-India hostilities, the full might of China will be unleashed against India, whereas in reality, China will be extremely hard-put to redeploy its military warfighting assets from northeastern & southeastern China (facing Taiwan, Japan & the Korean peninsula) & from northwestern China (facing the Central Asian Republics) into Tibet. Thirdly, as a consequence, at most a localised high-intensity border conflict of the type fought between China & Vietnam in 1979 is the only practicable scenario envisaged by both the IA & PLA. Therefore, lastly, India does not have any need for any time of surplus military hardware from the US or anyone else.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

"To Mr.RA 13: Unfortunately for RAW13, he won’t be able to, since he does not possess the wisdom to visualise the end-state of his dreams & desires (which I assure you will most certainly not be the 72 waiting-to-be-fucked virgins in his afterlife!!!)."

Thanx! Not only this but even almost all of your technical and managerial replies were poetic.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Caesar 155/52 howitzer in live demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3s7gfO8M08

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13@3.31AM: LoLzzzz!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: Way back in October 1999 I had drafted & published a comparative analysis in which I had detailed the liabilities encountered by the IA when deploying the towed FH-77Bs to J & K OP Vijay, & had formulated a ‘what if’ scenario were Caesar-type motorised howitzers to be employed instead of FH-77Bs. The beauty of the Caesar is that it is now being offered with the compact, standalone ULISS 30XP topographic positioning system, which provides accurate decametric-class positioning of indirect artillery systems that do not have embedded navigators, such as howitzers, mortars or rocket launchers. It can also set metric-class topographic points to realign the navigation of navigator-equipped weapons systems. Lastly, it enables the elaboration of high-precision centimetric-class points for mapping or geodesic use. ULISS 30XP guarantees these levels of performance, even without GPS, so as to meet mission integrity requirements. It can easily be mounted on any light, 4-wheel drive type vehicle and operated by a small team. ULISS 30XP is based on SAGEM’s Sigma 30 inertial navigation system, in a Sigma 30XP version dedicated to topographic applications. An integrated theodolite enables the positioning of remote reference points and a touch-screen offers a user-friendly way of ensuring mission progress and displaying the measurements required by the command. It uses combat-proven components, such as the Sigma 30 unit and the CDU 2G control and display unit, both of which are already in service with Pinaka Mk1 MBRL Regiments.
Such aids, when used by the IA’s ‘Shakti’ artillery command, control & communications system & the Battlespace Surveillance System (Project Sanjay), will enable a motorised 155mm/52-cal howitzer to be brought into effect at extremely short notice for delivering accurate fire-assaults. This is especially critical for high-altitude mountain warfare, since weapons locating radars or acoustic ranging systems are next to useless on such terrain.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

"Caesar is equipped with a 155mm, 52-calibre barrel and can maintain a firing rate of six to eight rounds a minute in sustained fire, or three rounds in 15 seconds in rapid fire."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/caesar/

Unknown said...

Sir,

Will the F-INSAS prgram be accompanied by new training techniqies in modeern warfare? SOme of the lessons imparted to th eIA right now seem roted in the early 20th centuary.

+ in the past you had said the MIG-29UPGs would come with the TOPSIGHT, has this changed? and if so why?

Anonymous said...

Sir when will you post the tank article, which you showed the pictures of that, waiting eagerly

Anonymous said...

"There are two options for IAC-2: DCNS’ proposal for a nuclear-powered CVN, & the latest Russian offer. Even the Russians are likely to approach France for technical assistance & design consultancy. Therefore, it will make economic sense for India to join hands with Russia & France to co-develop a 65,000-tonne nuclear-powered CVN."
Thats a nice idea. All the 3 countries will be building atleast 1 AC in this category. What Russian Navy wants is somethig way beyond anyone can build so i think you are right they will go to French for this. Russian navy wants its future nuclear aircraft carrier capable of carrying a smaller ssk also (not talking about midget submarine).

"Illustration of NOPV shown by Pipavav at DEFEXPO 2012 was just a generic design. GSL’s NOPV is lighter than the NOPV that’s reqd from Pipavav. "
So let me get this right. IN issued requirement for 9 NOPV, which were designated as Surya class, out of 9, 5 are being build by Pipavav while remaining 4 i thought was being built by GSL but as you are saying both designs are different. Then there are two things possible, wither what GSL is building is totally different (they recieved order for 6 more OPV on the same design from ICG) or for the first time IN will have a class of OPV which will feature two separate design, somewhat like FREMM but in that project two separate navies were involved so two designs are viable.

"DRDO can’t designate a production partner because it is not mandated to do so."
I meant it should be allowed. And as as i know things are changing and drdo has a arm which deals with it. DRDO recently gave licenses to some technologies for both defence and public use via this method and this generated some money for them but they small projects, close to merely 50 cr. INR. What i meant were big projects like Akash. Now drdo can do this, but in India government intervention even in the so called enlisted or autonomous entities is too much. You have to laud NTPC, BHEL etc. they set up projects only in places were government tells them which is governed by vote bank otherwise GOI can always block the project in the name of environment.
In short DRDO is allowed to chose anyone but like you said MoD and secretaries and other bureaucrats will chose only that company or only that site that will benefit them. Thats why all defence projects in the last few years went to Kerala and Andhra (Thanx to A K Antony and Pallam Raju respectively ).

Anonymous said...

"There’s no need for DRDO to take any financial stakes in any production programme, nor is there a need for DRDO to fund Phd-level courses since all the Phd-holders, after getting their degrees, will straightaway go abroad. "
Well why not ? This will reduce burden on MOD which doesn't wanna through money in RnD as even armed forces are more interested in off the shelf equipment's. Those who do Phd from India, stick to india only unless they are interested in some high level post graduate degree.
Why shouldn't there be a defence univeristy funded by drdo which could give them the talent pool according to their need just like what isro is doing. Infact good thing for defence univeristy will be that alot of private and global firms will also be interested in not just hiring but also funding the research grants for that university.

"along with 60 air-launched Nirbhays & 120 Nirbhay SLCMs."
Land based variant ?

"The IJT is outlived its usefulness & is not reqd, since no other air force in the world uses BTTs, IJT & AJTs."
I thought the same. HAL lost the opportunity, they could have sold 200+ units but they are held bend on reviving the project and wasting the money.

"They use only BTTs, AJTs & LIFTs. Prociring IJTs will be a sheer waste of resources & therefore the money saved by cancelling the IJT should be re-invested in a Tejas Mk1 LIFT programme. "
We can only hope that somebody somewhere powerful enough reads this blog and decides to take some action or else iw ill bet HAL will build spend money and build IJT by the end of this decade and by that time, IAF will say f--k off.

"Military-industrial production infrastructure is of poor quality in India only because all the DPSUs are being prevented from clinching industrial partnerships with advanced OEMs abroad. Such partnerships can only be forged if 49% divestment is allowed by the MoD."
A K antony is not gonna let this happen.

Anonymous said...

OMG Prasun you are so intelligent you should be on the Cabinet committee on security

Anonymous said...

hi prasun.. Islam considers itself a superior relgion to others and its prophet the last prophet..it is exclusivist and so we witness a primary pattern of muslims living clustered togeather, knowingly or unknwongily..islam cannot reconcile itself with other religions and se we witnessed yugoslavia war, bosnian conflict, kashmir seperatism etc..the pattern is similar everywhere

so in case indo pak reproachment allows for free human movement like between nepal and india, i feel would not yield the positive integration results that one may expect given the exclusivist nature of islamic belief system and its adherence by muslims..yes paks civil society wants raproachment with india and more human to human contact..but they are a wise western educated minority..till he time the islamic belief system accepts the authroity of other religions towards reaching God, becomes more open to dialogue and criticism..i doubt in the medium or long term there can be any worthwhile sustainable reproachment between the two countries..or between islam and rest of the world..whats your say??

abs said...

@prasunda
very many thanks. I must admit that the informations available have been too few and only in tid bits.
I would like to ask you a few questions.
1)I think the scenarios outlined above, especially the acceptance of China and the USA of India's dominance in the IOR and beyond, the convergences in the AF-PAK region,the fact that Pakistan has ceased being a conventional threat for India, India's increasing inroads into ASEAN and USA's increasing interference in the ASEAN region has perhaps changed the dynamics by making Asia a multi-polar region. Would you agree?
2)The scanarios of rapprochement with Pakistan and finding common ground in Afghanistan that u outlined above, are they India led or China led?
3)In the following article
http://idrw.org/?p=16556
It seems yellow journalism is not only unique or restricted to India alone.
However is there any truth in the LRCMs(I suspect) range being increased from 1000-3000Km?
Is there cooperation going on in development of satellite launching capability?
Is there any sort of joint development for developing PGMs? And what kind of DEWS cooperation is going on?

Anonymous said...

Sir, I have seen satellite imagery of Sokol aircraft plant in Nizhny Novgorod. The plant wasnt as big as large scale Lockheed Martin assembly line in Fort Worth. There were no such buildings that long. There were 5,6 warehouses none exceeding 200 m in lenght max. The warehouses,structures were the same as ones in HAL Ozhar. Sokol had produced thousand and thousands of MiG fighters including hundreds of MiG-29,31. How can such a small production plant manufacture so many acs and from raw materials stage ? Then HAL Ozar can also do it. KNAAPO in Komsomolsk-on-Amur also doesnt look like a production plant.It is more of an airbase. Google map shows many parked Su-27 acs.This production plant is even smaller than the one in Ozar. How can such plants churn out premiun quality fighters in nos ?
isnt there any large scale fighter production plant in erstwhile Soviet Union , Russia like the one in Fort Worth ?

Anonymous said...

there is something correct in what raw13 says:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/12/08/176825/afghanistan-considering-peace.html


Anonymous said...

Prasun da,

Thanks for the reply.

Why won't the IAF go for the stealthy Su-30MKI with internal weapons bay in future after new generation of long-range multi-mode BVRAAMs (like the Meteor) and standoff PGMs (both anti-radiation missiles & small-diameter loitering PGMs equipped with tri-mode seekers) become available in Russia from 2016 onwards?

You have once written that the IAF will look at the stealthy Su-30MKI with reconfigured air intakes and internal weapons storage in the underbelly once the above mentioned weapons become available in Russia by 2016.

Will the Rafale in future also have such stealthy features like conformal weapons bay and rear end IRST for all round situational awareness?
How the SPECTRA compare to the EW system like AN/ALE-214 integrated defensive electronic countermeasures system on the Super Hornet? You have once told that at the moment there is nothing comparable to the AN/ALE-214 EW system.Will the SPECTRA be able to match the AN/ALE-214 EW system in future? Can we expect an AN/ALE-214 EW system on the FGFA?

Are FLIR pictures from the Damocles targeting pod projected on the TopOwl HMDS used by Rafale pilots?

Please explain. Thank you.

abs said...

@prasunda
pending replies to my above queries, I would also like to ask.
1)Do you foresee any US retreat from the ASEAN and Asia-Pacific region? Especially with another economic shock?
2)What happened to the Pawan UAV development?
3)I was going thorugh a lot of ur past comments and Ausairpower's assessment of the PAK-FA/FGFA, Im beginning to get this hunch that the PAK-FA and FGFA might indeed turn out to be as stealthy as the F/A-22 Raptors with ongoing modifications, especially with the incorporation of plasma physics.What are your views to this?
4)Could we see the application of plasma physics and stealth characteristics that HAL is going to lay its hands on in the FGFA project to that of AMCA? Or will the bad blood between HAL and ADA spoil everything?

abs said...

^^^
5)By when would the loitering indigenous UAV surface?? Would it be modified into a loitering killer drone?
6)Any R&D has been initiated in developing the Loitering reusable UCAV that Mr.Kalam had earlier mentioned?

raw13 said...

a stealthy su-30mki :-))))

or do you mean reducing its rcs with weapons load from 30m2 to 28m2?

Anonymous said...

Can LCH carry 16 Anti-tank missiles like Apache?If not how many can it carry?Is DRDO developing a version of LCH which can compete with Apache Longbow?

Anonymous said...

Prasun, this may be why IAF didn't want the Dreamliner as AWACS platform.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20716997

I must add though, for posterity, that when you mention M. Bin Qasim etc that Pakistan has more vedic roots than India itself! Our Paki friend here must surely know that the RIG Veda originated from the Swat Valley. Chanakya's (whom ironically many Pakis despise today..) Taxila is present time Rawalpindi. Prior to independence POK had as many hindu temples as J&K itself!

Heck even Mahabharat which was written thousands of years ago mentions Kandahar as Shakuni's Kingdom.

But Pakis tend to think the world itself started on the day the first muslim army invaded India. That's why you can never match turkey. They acknowledge their pre-islamic history and are proud of it. You don't have any history at all! If you come to think about it...you don't even know who you are..Sad...

Anonymous said...

Sir,

1. How many hardpoints each wing of MiG-29UPG has ? In MiG-29UPG Upgrade Package Detailed you said there will be four hardpoints in each wing like MiG-29K.

2.Which version of ELT-568 is there on upgraded MiG-29.

3.Caesar can achieve MRSI with a huge crew, more than its usual crew. In this way the projectiles can be quickly inserted into gun cradle from the magazine.

4.What is the gun in Arjun MBT.It is much smaller in length than T-72 gun. As such it will have a shorter range. Arjun mk1a needs to be fitted with a 52 calibre barrel.

5. Desi media is repeatedly telling that 69 MiG-29 are to be upgraded and HAL was given license to built 120 RD-33 series 3 engines. But 120 engines mean 60 acs.

6.After nuclear reactor in Arihant class completes 10 years, where will it be and how will it be refuelled ?

7.What is the RCS of Su-30 ? It is not 28 or 32 sq m. It may be around 5 sq m.

8.Jammers can be targetted by anti radaition SAM and AAM. What techniques jammer employs to avoid being targetted by such missiles ?

9. Why arent Mirage 2000 being upgraded in France by Dassult for faster return to service instead of HAL ?

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
Thank you very much for a thorough and most objective analysis. I felt greatly relieved by your reply.
Is Rudra capable of night operations?

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir,

Russia projected a requirement of 6 Aircraft carriers, India also projected a requirement of 6-7 Aircraft carriers. In general when a requirement for a new capital vessel is formulated what are the rules followed by IN (here in this case) to submit a proposal to Govt. Does the basic duties of its entire service life were also part of the proposal?. Does Force projection also take part of the proposal? (and how much force projection weighs in to convince for procurement). IN joining hands with Russia and France for designing a Next Generation Aircraft Carrier would be an Ideal choice which can reap great benefits to Indian warship building industries.

Does IAF had reduced the no of FGFA requirement from 214 to 144 (As phase one procurement) as reported in various news articles?

VMT in advance prasunji.

Anand said...

Hi Prasun,

Could you throw some lihgt on various types of seekers used in missiles like optronic seeker,IIR seeker,SAR seeker.The seeker that you mentioned previously being developed for the prahaar by Astra microwave is a SAR seeker right .What type of of seeker will be there on the AD-1/AD-2.Will the DRDO develop it?

Regards,

Anand.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Hi PrasunDa,

Have you ever seen the tremendous amount of hate India comments that is visible on US military forums like mp.net , keys etc .

Just beats the hell out of me as to how much hatred the Yankees have for Indians.

Regards,
Sujoy

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN: As it is a fact of life that the IA will have only a handful of training ranges to practice, the only other option is to increase the usage of simulation technologies. Presently, several platform-centric simulators are there, but by the end of this decade, there will be enormous demands for network-centric simulators involving all three armed services. MiG-29UPGs were due to have TopSight HMDS, but the induction of such HMDS has been postponed till the time the Mirage 2000UPGs start arriving, since the part-task trainer for TopSight—which is common to both the MiG-29UPG & Mirage 2000UPG—will be ready for delivery in the latter half of this decade.

To Anon@10.53AM: The 4 GSL-built NOPVs will each displace 2,200 tons, while the ones to be built by Pipavav will displace 2,500 tons. They’re two totally different & new designs. GLCM versions of Nirbhay have not yet been asked for by any of the armed services. IJT was a no-brainer since the outset. If at HAL was interested in developing flying training aircraft, then it should have convinced both the IAF & MoD about the reqmt for the HTT-35 BTT & only after that try to develop an AJT instead of IJT. That way, there would have been no need to import PC-7 Mk2s & Hawk 132s.

To Anon@12.31PM: VMT, since your immodesty overwhelms me!!!

To Anon@12.41PM: There are several who fervently believe that Islam is a superior religion & there won’t be any more prophets after Prophet Mohd. I myself have come across several of them over the years, mostly hailing from Southeast Asia. On the other hand, several from both Bangladesh & Pakistan believe that once every 500 years since the advent of Islam, there will continue to rise new religious faiths, & they cite the example of Din-e-LLahi, which was founded & propounded by Akbar The Great. In my view, the extreme & exclusivist paths are the consequences of the age-old sectarian divide (Sunni-Shia, etc), which today has morphed into two grand alliances pitted against each other: the Sunnis led by Saudi Arabia & the rest of the GCC & Arab Sheikhdoms, & the Shias led by Iran. And their proxy wars are evident throughout the Middle East as well as South Asia. Central Asia almost fell victim to this too, but the leaders of the respective Central Asian Republics were wise enough to clamp down on such tendencies & expel those of their citizens who clung on to such ideologies. Consequently, all those Arabs (from Jordan, Syria, Yemen & some GCC countries), Turkmen, Uighurs, Chechans & Uzbeks who were unwanted in their own countries have sought & received asylum within Pakistan post-2002, which in turn has created a deadly cocktail of mercenaries who are now spreading havoc within FATA.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: 1) The US isn’t exactly interfering in ASEAN, since it is a majority of the ASEAN member-states that want the US to stay engaged in Southeast Asia. 2) When convergence is achieved, it is by mutual agreement & consensus, & there’s no one party leading or influencing the other. For instance, China has recognised the benefits of the low-key but extremely effective way in which India has got into the good books of both Pashtuns & non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan & consequently China feels that this is the right approach to emulate & support if one wants pacification & stability in Afghanistan, as opposed to the securitisation approach of Pakistan, which in reality is the policy posture of both the US & Saudi Arabia, this being enacted in order to diminish Iran’s influence. However, this time as the endgame nears, I reckon the US-Pakistan-Saudi alliance has got it all wrong.
3) The article you’ve quoted does not mention the LRCM, but medium-range ballistic missile, which itself is wrong. There’s no ballistic missile being co-developed. And the air-launched LRCM was never meant to have a range of 1,000km, but only 600km. Cooperation for satellite launches has already been in place with ISRO’s Antrix Corp since mid-2005. Joint R & D on DEWS involves high-power microwave lasers for intercepting PGMs, EMP-hardening of radars of various types & exploring options for next-generation EMP-generating PGMs.
4) Even for the next 50 years I don’t foresee the US withdrawing from either ASEAN or the Western Pacific.
5) Pawan UAV has morphed into the Rustom-1 MALE-UAV.
6) Yes, it is true that the PAK-FA & FGFA will make use of certain techniques born out of plasma physics for achieving stealth as well as super-cruise.
7) I have consistently stated that AMCA is a pipedream. Unless & until the FGFA surfaces it will be futile to say anything on the AMCA. There are several more short-term & medium-term aerospace-related R & D projects that deserve far greater priority than AMCA, especially in a country where nowadays one is finding it almost impossible to even recruit casual labourers for constructing roadways along India’s northeastern regions.
8) Loitering UAV will surface sometime after 2016 & donlt be surprised at all if it bears a close resemblance to the Talarion, given the fact that ADA, ADE & DARE are nowadays all honeymooning with EADS/Cassidian.
9) Killer-drones like Harops are very easy to produce & require only a man-in-the-loop flight navigation/target acquisition system that is operated from a mobile ground-control centre. All that one requires is real-time target acquisition intelligence from an airborne platform equipped with RecceLite & the processing of this info with the help of a terrain-matching GIS grid-map. Will dwell more about this in a future thread on Project Sanjay (BSS).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@1.52PM: In the former USSR there was not one, but 3 separate aircraft final-assembly plants for combat aircraft. For MiG-29s, there are two plants at Nizhny Novgorod & Moscow, respectively. For Sukhois, there are three active plants at KNAAPO, Novosibirsk & Irkutsk. Therefore, even if each plant produces 12 aircraft, it adds up to 36 units every year.

To Anon@6.52PM: That’s only 50% of the story. For the other 50% one will have to elicit the views of Iran, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, northern Afghanistan, Russia, China & India.

To Anon@7.04PM: No, for that will involve several changes to the existing airframe. Therefore, far easier & cheaper to develop EWPs housing PGMs. Internal weapons storage option was dropped once it was decided to carry air-launched BrahMos-1 in the centerline station of Su-30MKI. Rafale can be expected in the following decade to have twin IRS sensors & EWPs. Not only the Spectra, but even the EW suite of the MiG-29UPG that uses the ELT-568, is comparable to the ALE-214 in terms of hardware performance parameters. In the final analysis, however, effectiveness of any EW suite depends on its EW threat library being updated periodically. All LDP-generated FLIR imagery is presently shown on AMLCDs.

To Anon@8.51PM: LCH can at best carry only four HELINA-type or PARS2LR-type ATGMs. DRDO never had anything to do with developing the LCH’s airframe or mission avionics, except for the integrated EW suite.

To Anon@9.06PM: For any new aircraft that enters service, there will always be initial technical hiccups. These are all overcome within a 3-year period. And the DRDO isn’t expected to place orders for any platform—A330-200 or B.797—at least until 2015. Regarding Pakistan, Yes, there are a few crore Pakistanis who today believe that their promised land was born from the day Mohd bin Qasim invaded Sindh, & there are quite a few among the fringe right-wing that Islam & Pakistan were both born on August 14, 1947 & that Afghanistan was a land that even Alexander The Great couldn’t conquer, without bothering to find out when exactly Afghanistan as a country came into being! That country was born in 1747 & was created by Ahmad Shah Abdali & prior to that civilised human habitation always resided in the territory that lay north of the Kabul River. No one in their right mind even dreamt of residing in present-day Baluchistan or any area south of present-day Kandahar—areas that possessed neither cultivable land nor steady water supply.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.27PM: 1) 3 under each wing. 4 was for MiG-35 as shown in scale-models by RAC-MiG. 2) The same version as that on the Eurofighter EF-2000’s Praetorian EW suite. 3) Four-man crew is enough. 4) All armoured battles in the subcontinent have involved target acquisition & engagements within a range of 700 metres only. At most, this today can go up to 1.5km, buy no more, given the topography of terrain. 5) 63 MiG-29B-12s are being upgraded as per Russian Aircraft Corp & Rosoboronexport State Corp, not 69. 120 RD-33-3s will be licence-assemble by HAL Koraput, meaning six RD-33-3s being procured off-the-shelf for the first three MiG-29UPGs. 6) The entire reactor vessel housing the PWR will have to be replaced. 7) Your guess is as good as mine. 8) Home-on-jam techniques work only against dedicated subsonic EW aircraft that are high-flying, & not against fast-moving combat aircraft. 9) Because that’s what been mandated by the MoD.

To SNTATA: VMT. Of course the Rudra as well as Dhruv Mk4 are capable of IFR flight or nighttime operations, as are the Mi-17V-5s. Both helicopters have fully NVG-compatible cockpit avionics & instrumentation. The LCH’s cockpit too will have fully NVG-compatible cockpit avionics & instrumentation.

To Anon@11.32PM: The IN’s stated reqmt remains at three operational aircraft carriers. With the benefit of hindsight, it now appears that India would have been better off by building two 39,500-tone aircraft carriers at CSL (& ordering only MiG-29Ks & Ka-31s from Russia), & then graduating on to building 65,000-tonne nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. Presently, what is first prepared is a document by IN HQ detailing the operational necessity for acquiring such vessels. This then goes to HQ Integrated Defence Staff where a detailed project feasibility appreciation is drafted, inclusive of technical & financial parameters, based on RFIs issued earlier by IN HQ. This then goes to the Defence Acquisition Council for approval & once approved it goes to Cabinet Committee on National Security for approval. Once approved, RFPs are issued.
No of FGFAs planned for procurement still stay at 214.

To ANAND: The X-band active SAR sensor for Prahaar NLOS-BSM is being developed by DATA Patterns Pvt Ltd, not Astra Microwave. AS-1 & AD-2 as revealed by Dr V K Saraswat will both have imaging infra-red sensors for terminal guidance, as will the PDV. Such sensors are being co-developed by DRDO & Israel’s RAFAEL.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Don’t bother about them, for I reckon it’s not exactly hate, but rather pure envy & frustration.

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir,

But in a recently held aerospace seminar at sweden. Mr V.K. Saraswat had stated on what would be the core technologies to be stressed on for AMCA and UCAV projects. He also went on ahead to say that the spin offs from the FGFA and AMCA project will be incorporated into Tejas Mk III which will be even more stealthier than the Tejas MkII. A person who is in a position of Scientific Advisor making those statements would definitely add lot of weight to them. VMT

Anonymous said...

Hello Mr. Prasun, hi im not very well-versed with missiles & radar stuff so this question came to my mind -

DRDO has said that next month (January) it will conduct a test of the PDV interceptor which will destroy a target missile 300km above earth's surface.

How do our radars track a missile 300km above? I know that these Swordfish LRTR and MFCR radars have ranges of 400-800km and 300km respectively, but does this range apply only to horizontal distance or vertical distance too?

Sorry If my question was noob, I dont know much of radars & missiles :))

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@2.23AM: That would all depend on what types of hardware the DRDO succeeds in developing for the FGFA. So far, only the India-origin items officially announced for inclusion on board the FGFA are the gas-turbine starter-generator & on-board oxygen generation system. It will be too premature to talk about a Tejas Mk3 when even the Tejas Mk2 has yet to debut.

To Anon@2.43AM: For that, telemetry tracking radars are used. Larsen & Toubro’s Precision Monopulse Tracking Radars in C-band and S-Band are made use of.

Anonymous said...

This excerpt is from a recent news article,

"Rajaram Nagappa, Visiting Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies (NIAS), Bangalore, said China was getting into multiple independently targeted re-entry vehicles (MIRVs), which could be integrated with its DF-31 and DF-41 missiles. These missiles are capable of firing multiple warheads. The DF-41 missile, it is claimed, has a range of 12,000 km. Pakistan is also interested in acquiring MIRVs. “With the MIRVs, the efficacy of the missile defence shield becomes more challenging,” said Prof. Nagappa.

China has a multilayered BMD shield. It has done interceptor tests in the exo-atmosphere, the endo-atmosphere and the mid-atmosphere. “Knowing the missile exchanges that have taken place between China and Pakistan, there is always a possibility of these missiles being developed in Pakistan with Chinese assistance,” Nagappa said. Besides its interceptor missile tests, China had carried out an anti-satellite test on January 11, 2007."

What are these interceptors other than the S-300 system?

Gessler said...

Prasun saheb, what has happened to your thread on Arjun Mk-2/other world MBTs?

It has disappearned and this thread about Tata's 155mm howitzer has appeared in its place!

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mr. Prasun for clearing that doubt about exo-atmospheric missile tracking :-)

abs said...

@Prasunda
Very many thanks for your replies.
So what is happening in Afghanistan is, the Pakistanis wanting to have strategic depth in Afghanistan wants the Taliban to be included in the political process. This would give them significant leverage in Afghanistan. However both India and China along with the rest of the CAR and Iran is dead against such a measure.
In this context what is it that the Chinese have asked the Pakistanis to do? Would not alienating the taliban from the political process in Afghanistan been better? But it seems USA is not playing game to this.

abs said...

^^^ And how do you see the Afghanistan's political and geo political scene after 2014 to 2020?

abs said...

@prasunda
also if you could throw soe light on howthe MALE Rustom 2 would be different from the loitering UAV to surface in 2016 in terms of operational roles.

raw13 said...

OK let me educate you guys: Shia Sunni divisions came about within 50yrs of Prophet Mohd.(saw) and it was the minor theme running on the sidelines of all the great islamic empires. Shia's since before salahuddin (who spent 17yrs fighting them), escaped persecution in north africa, egypt, saudi, turkey by moving east to iran, afghan, pak. CAR on the otherhand has no major Shia population, it is all sunni hanifi's (same as afghan, pak and turkey). Even Tajiks in Afghan in herat are hanifi sunni and not shia. This split is only new to people who don't know islam and its history.

New religion every 500yrs :-), yes if you are an ahmedi's but in pak and the rest of the islamic world this is heretic!!!

MPatel said...

col AS says that 8 tejas have been ordered by the Navy. This is an insult to tejas. It is a 4.5++ gen fighter and we must order more....otherwise our industry will always be doing ToT and learning how to turn the screws!!! we need to start a collection to purchase Tejas. We the public are this Last Chance Aircraft's only hope.

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir,

Tailiron itself looking like its design has taken major inspiration from US Global Hawk. Is India targeting a similar kind of platform (i.e., like the global hawk HALE UAV)...

Does any one inside IAF are really interested in IJT? (Because, I read some regret statements from IAF about the IJT program during previous air shows and their stressing on to finish the project in time), but now a days I see literally no statements from IAF regarding IJT except from HAL giving out statements.

Is IAF also thinking in the lines about including LIFT platforms into its training manual? which is when there will be any scope for Tejas MkI as a LIFT choice.

If IAF decides to go for a LIFT platform then how much time it would take ADA/ADE to convert the trainer into an IAF acceptable LIFT platform? VMT in advance prasunji...

abs said...

@Prasunda
http://www.ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2012/12/indias-ocean.html

What do you reckon? Seems devoid of many facts to me and is an effort to raise the 'China' heckles by the effort.
However do you really think the domination of the IN is only uptill the Northern Indian Ocean and not till the Southern Indian Ocean?

Anonymous said...

@raw 13
weren't you the one who said that you are not the one to talk out of your ass?

"No offence but the last thing pak needs is unstable/breaking up of india to its natural states. Unlike india pak has a weak state but extremely strong civic structures. Which india doesn-t really have them, mainly due to caste situation."......what are these my dear?

of all, the land of pure has the worst performing economy in entire Asia-pacific, until he or she makes the pilgrimage to land of pure,he/she cannot be even declared a terrorist, every terrorist in the world eventually makes an enlightening and religious indoctrination pilgrimage to Pakistan.

strong civic structure???.....don't enlighten us about these, please,please we beg you for the enlightenment.

the baboons in government have no clue as to how to run the economy,nor the military has any clue. don't even get me started on your judiciary and kangaroo courts.

your leaders have the habit of making big fiery speeches, but in the end, run into run into some foreign country to save their ass, benazir bhutto,nawaz sharif, mushraaf, imran khan etc have all been in exile. before contesting the elections, benazir vowed to liberate Kashmir,but, even before the election she was liberated by her own country men, and to this day, the culprits are at large. Musharraf talked about nuclear war with India, now, that petty coward does not have the courage to set his foot in the country of which he was a general and face the criminal charges against him.
some time back afghan security officials were on visit Pakistan, during that time, they told mushraaf that osama was some were near Islamabad, Musharraf replied by saying " am i the president of republic of banana" some year later, the sword of islam was caught with huge stash of porn in the outskirts of Islamabad, and was there when afghan officials told Musharraf about his hideout, by his own words, Pakistan is a banana republic now.

it's best if not talk about the historic worlds greatest slogan " we will eat grass but we will develop a bomb".

the baboons talked big, but were eventually hanged by their own generals, either shot dead, hiding in exile and the list continues.I don't know where to begin where to end when it comes to land of pure.oh yeah, strong civic structures...LMAO.

regularly comes in the list of failed states and yet strong civic structures, dumb deluded kids.

Anonymous said...

@raw 13
"China has been Paks friend and will be but they also know that we always look after our interests first and foremost, regardless of cost and we never budge. USA + NATO are more powerful than China, India, Russia combined and have contributed more to Pak state than any other. Now if Pak can stick two fingers up to them do you think these three matter, if our interests are being impacted!!! Not only that we can seriously screw these three at home too. And we have a record of replying and pre-empting when provoked."


ahhhhh, deluded kid, before you talk of your interest, how big really is the interest of the land of pure?...first and foremost, your generals are to dependent on china, remember the "blank check" statement by your foreign minister, that should have opened your eyes, but it seems that you have the tendency to talk out of your ass.

"regardless of cost and we never budge"....zardari is already on his world trip begging for aid with his usual begging bowl. remember the wish list that Pakistani foreign minister handed over to secretary Clinton containing list of military equipment's that the great Pakistani army wished to have?

"Now if Pak can stick two fingers up to them" ...you never did kid, all you generals stood naked and danced in front of US and NATO for money and military aid to arm against India. did you forget the abottabad incident where the Americans put huge bush in the asses of Pakistanis.if it had to go by the Americans will and they were desperate enough,they could have bombed entire peace of that crap land with their stealth and strategic bombers, and you fools could have done nothing, nor the Chinese, nor the entire 1.5 billion pious brothers ans sisters.

"Not only that we can seriously screw these three at home too. And we have a record of replying and pre-empting when provoked."......screw???? consider yourself lucky big losers, everyone knows that destabilizing the region would lead to great humanitarian disaster in the region, that's why everyone is yearning for peace, they have tolerated it for long,but, fools have come to believe that it is their ability to take on others. only a retard can make such a dumb comment,but then again, you are a deluded Pakistani, anything is possible, like the water car!!!!

Anonymous said...

"With the benefit of hindsight, it now appears that India would have been better off by building two 39,500-tone aircraft carriers at CSL (& ordering only MiG-29Ks & Ka-31s from Russia), & then graduating on to building 65,000-tonne nuclear-powered aircraft carriers."

That could be a real deal for IN to achieve 3 operational Aircraft Carriers for its doctrine projected until 2025. If IN really goes with the decides to collaborate with DCNS and Russia for Next Generation Nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier. It will give the IN Naval Design bureau (DND) and other key R&D agencies enough time of 10 years for conducting R&D and absorbing major critical technologies required for building such a modern and complex design with displacement around 75000 tons (As mentioned for French Second aircraft carrier details). They will also fit perfectly with Navy's future doctrine beyond 2025 (with a support/push from more robust Indian economy) when it can plan to induct such big warships 1 per 5 or 7 years (Like what USA does, but fitting with in its planning and operational doctrines).

It could also be wise for IN to slightly increase the displacement of IAC2 (Keeping the overall design commonalities with IAC1 STOBAR design) and accommodate more aircrafts, like increasing the overall number of aircrafts to 40 - 45 which could greatly enhance its power. Your thoughts prasunji, VMT in advance.

Anonymous said...

Sir how oculd the future of Indo-Afghan relations shape up? What are the benefits India is looking to gain in Afghanistan?

I think Indian investment in Afghan is now more than $10 billion.

What is the scope of Indian military exports to Afghanistan in the coming years? Afghans seem to be interested in trucks, artillery and maybe some helos too. What do you say?

Do you think IA/IAF could look at any strategic deployment in Afghan like an airbase etc. like Farkhor/Ayni in Tajikistan?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@8.56AM: Although China did conduct R & D on BMD systems since the late 1960s, till today it has not deployed any operational system & has, like the DRDO, only undertaken technology demonstration projects related to BMD & ASAT weapons.

To ABS: There is no longer any concept known as ‘strategic depth’ for Pakistan. That policy was discarded as far back as 2008 & now the policy of ‘regional cooperation’ is in place. No one in Pakistan, either civilian or military, gives any credence to strategic depth for the simple reason that in this age of long-range precision-guided cruise missiles & ballistic missiles, strategic depth simply does not make any sense anymore. Introduction of the Taliban into a future national coalition govt in Afghanistan won’t give Pakistan any special advantages, since there will be other members of the coalition like Uzbeks, Hazaras & Tajiks that will outnumber the Pashtun-dominated Taliban. The reason why Pakistan is now releasing the former Taliban leaders from custody under the excuse of introducing them to the Afghan political mainstream is all due to overwhelming US pressure, i.e. the US knew quite well from 2003 that Pakistan was trying to play a double-game with the ISAF forces inside Afghanistan. Consequently, the US too decided to return the favour & launched its own double-game by ‘facilitating’ the entry of Uzbek & Uighur militants into FATA (via northern Afghanistan) & helping create the Tehrik-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan (TTP). Consequently, today, while the Taliban factions led by Mullah Omar are supported by Pakistan, the TTP is the joint Afghan-US counterstroke, or riposte, just in case Islamabad tries to engage in any form of strategic defiance against the US. Given the US’ superior resources, it is therefore evident that the TTP can wreak total havoc within Pakistan (like what’s now happening in Karachi & Baluchistan) & also attack the primacy of Pakistan’s feudal system, & therefore Pakistan will have no choice but to both support the present-day Karzai govt in Kabul & keep the overland transit routes for NATO’s ISAF forces till such time that they’re no longer reqd. It is in this way that the US-led NATO has checkmated both the Pakistan Army’s strategic planners & Pakistan’s ruling feudal-class, with the tacid support of Russia, China & India at the policy-making level. India & China both want the Karzai govt to be stabilised & remain in power well beyond 2014, and at the same time ensure that the present-day anarchy prevailing within FATA is contained without spilling out of control & entering either J & K or Xinjiang. This is where the regional security perceptions of both Delhi & Beijing totally converge. What Beijing has done since is to convince Pakistan’s feudal-class politicians that only a regional solution led by both China & India has the sustaining power (economic & military) to pacify Afghanistan & the rest of Central Asia & this in turn will lead to eventual conflict resolution between both Afghanistan & Pakistan (regarding the Durand Line’s future fate, with China & India prevailing on Kabul to extend the validity of the Durand Line) & Pakistan & India (i.e. adoption of Musharraf’s 4-point formula). In return, China & India will also be expected to successfully demarcate the LAC & adopt it as the international legal border with minor alterations in accordance with international principles. Therefore, between now & late 2014, expect some shows of statesmanship emanating from Beijing, Delhi & Islamabad, i.e. a grand regional bargain.
Rustom-1 & Rustom-2 will both be MALE-UAVs, while the loitering twin-turbofan UAV will actually be a UCAV like the Talarion that will be able to carry four laser-guided PGMs or even ATGMs like HELINA or Hermes-A.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS@7.46PM: Well, it is better not to expect too much from a former T-72 MBT commander who can make an outrageous claim about the T-72 being ‘night-blind’ (meaning he was either bullshitting about his background, or he never paid attention to the active IR-searchlight on the turret-front just to the right of the 2A46M Rapira cannon, something which I yet again photographed yesterday on a T-72CIA on static display at Shivaji Park, Mumbai as part of the December 15-16 Vijay Divas celebrations[exactly how many times in a year does one need to celebrate Vijay Divas???]). Now, let’s see what he states:
1) Could China, worried by the growing confrontation with the US on its eastern flank, be looking at clearing its western flank through a border agreement with India? If there is a game-changer in the offing, it could be such a Chinese decision.------------------Hmmmm......looks like someone is trying to connect the dots that I had alluded to 2 days ago!
2) The southern Indian Ocean is another matter. New Delhi has evaluated, but appears currently disinclined towards building and operating overseas naval bases, especially in the Maldives, Mauritius, Seychelles and the East African seaboard.-------------------------bases are reqd only for navies/marine corps that are expeditionary in character & consequently require logistics facilities. As neither the IN nor the PLAN are expeditionary at the moment, the need for acquiring bases either in the northern or southern Indian Ocean does not even remotely arise.
3) Indian naval planners worry that the PLA(N) has already decided to have a significant presence in the Indian Ocean.------------------------Totally untrue, for this is impossible for PLAN to achieve given India’s total domination of the Malacca Straits. What one will see in the years ahead are routine forays by ocean surveillance catamarans of the type now being built at Guangzhou’s Huangpu Shipyard. The first three such vessels (991, 992 and 993) are presently in service with the North Sea Fleet, while the fourth vessel will be deployed with the South Sea Fleet. These vessels will lead the flotilla of marine exploration vessels which China will soon be dispatching after having obtained a deep-sea mining licence in central Indian Ocean (Southwestern Indian Ridge) from the International Seabed Authority (ISA). The State-run China Ocean Mineral Resources Research and Development Association had applied for the licence in May 2010 to explore for polymetallic sulphides in the Southwest Indian Ridge. It would now be required to sign a contract with the ISA, allowing it to explore up to 10,000 sq km over the next 15 years in line with the new rules on polymetallic sulphides adopted by the ISA last year. China, which has ratified the 1982 Law of the Sea Convention and is an ISA member, has been active in deep sea exploration since 2002 when it launched a programme that included developing an active diving submersible—Jiaolong--designed for a maximum depth of 7,000 metres.
4) China’s first aircraft carrier, Liaoning (formerly the Varyag, built in Ukraine), is not being immediately followed up with a second vessel.----------------------------Another fallacy. China’s first indigenous aircraft carrier is presently being built at the brand-new Shanghai JiangNan ChangXing Shipbuilding Base.
5) There’s nothing worthwhile in the southern Indian Ocean. On the other hand, the central Indian Ocean, particularly in & around the Chagos Trench, will be the natural patrolling & deployment spots for the IN’s SSBNs, SSGNs & SSNs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAW13: So, in your reckoning Shia Sunni was the ‘minor theme’ running on the sidelines of all the great Islamic empires? If so, then it was due to this very ‘minor theme’ (i.e. missing the woods for the trees) that the Baghdad Caliphate & the Turkish Sultanate were both completely annihilated by Genghis Khan’s Mongolian hordes, wouldn’t you agree? What is most heretic today is that 70% of Pakistanis believe that the founding father of Pakistan was a non-Muslim just because he was Shia. Wonder how the Ulemas will explain that.

To MPATEL: It makes no sense to order five LCA (Navy) Mk1 prototypes & 8 LCA (Navy) Mk1 LSPs when NONE of them will be qualified for carrier takeoffs & landings, be it from the SBTF or from an actual aircraft carrier. Instead, the IN ought to wait for arrival of LCA (Navy) Mk2s & order only four of them for carrier deck-landing-takeoff trials. In the meantime, the IN should invest its money on: A) specifying, just like the IAF, what kind of new-generation cockpit avionics & mission sensors it wants on board the LCA (Navy) Mk2; & B) designing & procuring a full-flight simulator that replicates the cockpit of the LCA (Navy) Mk2 so that the IN’s experimental pilots responsible for test-flying & validating the LCA (Navy) Mk2 get adequate experience in such takeoff/landing drills even before they commence test-flight operations from the SBTF in Dabolim.

To Anon@5.03PM: IAF has no choice but to induct tandem-seat LIFTs into service. The whole world knows about it & that’s why even the Ruskies are now knocking on India’s doors & trying to offer the Yak-130. Therefore, it is high-time the MoD wakes up from its deep slumber & instructs the IAF to adopt the tandem-seat Tejas trainer as its new-generation LIFT. As things now stand, all that’s reqd to be done is equip the Tejas tandem-seat trainer with the same cockpit/mission avionics as those on board the Tejas LSP-7 & lo-and-behold(!), the Tejas LIFT is good-to-go. At the same time, get ADA to team up with a low-cost simulator manufacturer like ZEN Technologies Pvt Ltd for co-developing both a cockpit procedures trainer (for aircrew), a maintenance simulator (for the ground crew) & some part-task trainers for mission planning & PGM guidance.

To Anon@1.24AM: IAC-2 will most probably be a 60,000-ton class nuclear-powered CVN. There’s still plenty of time left to decide on entering into a trilateral naval shipbuilding venture involving France, India & Russia.

To Anon@1.36AM: Indian investment in Afghanistan is not more than US$2 billion & that too as a pledge. Actual investment is lower. Exports of military hardware from India to Afghanistan will involve mainly logistics vehicles & spares support for T-55 tanks. For field artillery pieces & helicopters, the principal supplier will continue to be Russia, with India only providing some product-support (like batteries), flying training for Afghan military personnel & technical type-training for ground crews. There’s no need for obtaining air bases in either Afghanistan or Tajikistan because once an all-party regional solution is put in place, the commercial air-traffic routes will be opened in any case in support of regional trade & commerce.

Ravi said...

While I was in Israel for some time, some of my Jewish friends used to say, "Some US Jews & orthodox Jews think they are better Jews than the Jews live in Israel and other non-orthodox Jews. But they never join military, never involve in humanitarian program, etc,"
Similarly, I met a Jordinian Muslim. He asked me "Why Majority of South Asian Muslims are very conservative? We Arabs are not that conservative, but there are some among us, but even then Sub-Continent Muslims are very conservative" One of his neighbors in a gulf country was from my state Kerala.

Just like Prasun mentioned, "Some of the South East Muslims believe Islam is the superior religion."

Put these two things together, I feel that Sub-continent Muslims have changed in the last 15 years or so. They think they are much better followers of Islam than the Arabians are. They want to adopt some of the Arabian culture (dress codes and others) that existed among the tribals during Pro Muhammed's time. They feel they are superior to other religions even through Islam teaches love or peace with everyone irrespective of faith.

Is the inferiority complex among the sub-continent Muslims turning them to be more conservatives? In Pakistan it is taught that one Muslim is equivalent to 10 Hindus.

My Muslims neighbors who have been to Gulf countries for some years in 90s, came back with very stringent version of Islam. I remember one case, 52 year old neighbor's husband came back from Gulf, he brought black purdah that covered everything except the eyes. When the woman refused initially {she never wore it until then}, the husband beat her and she had to wear that. Such incidents are very common in Kerala, Tamil Nadu, AP & Karnataka.

The Muslims who used to come to our home in Kerala, stopped coming; even if somebody comes, they do not even drink water, because water from infidels are not pure it seems. That water will make them corrupt. These changes happened all of a sudden. When inquired, the answer we got "you know, we are different, we are the followers of Prof Muhummed. We will reach Allah.."

They beat in the air if a Muslim is killed by a Jew or a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Christian, but never shed a tear if a Muslim killed by another Muslim. Scores of Muslims are getting killed by Muslims. Yet, no agitation, no hartal or no prayers by sub-continent Muslims.

So what made these sudden change among sub-continent Muslims? I am not a scholar to answer these.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

@Ravi said:
December 15, 2012 2:11 AM

Actually without saying it directly, you have understood everything. Lol... Its like the end times...

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to the article about MBT's

Anonymous said...

"while the loitering twin-turbofan UAV will actually be a UCAV like the Talarion that will be able to carry four laser-guided PGMs or even ATGMs like HELINA or Hermes-A."
What is this new UAV ? Are you talking about AURA ?

" It makes no sense to order five LCA (Navy) Mk1 prototypes & 8 LCA (Navy) Mk1 LSPs when NONE of them will be qualified for carrier takeoffs & landings, be it from the SBTF or from an actual aircraft carrier."
I doubt IN has something to do with this. It must be MOD's decision.

sntata said...

To Ravi,
Dear Sir, not only Muslims but Christians also believe that their religion is the only true religion and their Prophet/Avatar is the only true representative of God. Another thing common to to these two man-made religions is their unshakable belief that only the adherents of their own religions go to heaven and the followers of other religions go to hell. In both the cases their idea of salvation is to remain forever in heaven, consorting with lovely celestial damsels. They simply don't understand Hindu concept of man's innate Divinity [even though their religions say that man is made in the image of God]. So they cannot understand our concept of Mukti/Moksha as losing our individuality and merging in God [that is, becoming God] Both believe that converting these heretics [by sword, in case of Islam, and by relentless propaganda and economic incentives, in case of Christianity]to their 'True Religion' will guaranty them a permanent seat in heaven. Even among Hindus, there is one sect, the Vaishnavs, who claim that Krishna is the only God and by worshiping Him alone one can obtain Mukti. These are the aberrations of organised religions whose main concern is to keep their followers from straying and increasing their tribe as much as possible and spreading it as much as possible. It is only when man turns Spiritual, starts the real inner quest to understand himself and his relation with God on one hand, and other beings and the world around him at large, that the boundaries of organised religions blur, and The Hindu Yogi, the Muslim Fakir and the Christian Mystic speak the same language - the language of the Heart - the language of selfless Love, the language of self-abnegating service to the poor and downtrodden, the language of controlling the vagaries of senses and mind [Tapas] and the language of self abnegation, or losings one's false sense of Individuality [ahankar or ego]. This understanding is slowly dawning among other religions since long. Now that the AQuarian Age has dawned since 12.12.12, the process of unity of Religions will be accelerated.

abs said...

@Prasunda
Very lucid explanation, could not have asked for more and a heartful of thanks for that.
1)how does the freeing of taliban leaders in Pakistani jails help the US?

abs said...

@SN Tata
While there are many who claim that Islam preaches peaceful coexistence and respect towards other religions, and it might be written in the quran as well but what everyone misses out on is the mentioning of terms like "infidels/kafirs" to describe non-muslims which in itself is a very derogatory term. So its followers don't have much reason to not look down upon "infidels" etc.

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,


http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-12/10/content_16001474_2.htm

says how chinese govt is investing in machine tools industry and so the German manufacturers are setting shops in china. I guess this is what u have been alluding to wen u say nobody gives tech 4 free and if higher productoin numbers are guaranteed, then foreigners will invest in manufacturing.

Machine tools are bsics of manufacturing and even though the artice says germans are selling various tools in different categories its appreciable the govt invests in researching next gen tools.Was there such a program ever tried in India?if we can get into this field lot of semi skilled ppl can b trained and manufacturing in India could grow overnight!

Why are the germans allowed to service the military in china by the US =Americans would raise concerns

ur thoughts

bradshaw said...

Hi Prasun,

Seems the French are reluctant to share the ToT on the AESA radar and some components of Spectra and offcourse the engines. Also they are forcing to partner with Reliance for the offsets and manufacturing.

Do you see the deal going smoothly or the L-2 bidder EF 2000 being called again ? Also what are the prospects of F 35 coming back to MRCA ?

I think Rafale is a good a/c but high costs and reluctance of french govt for ToT is making it difficult for the bird to find even the maiden customer. IAF is now considering to downsize the MRCA requirement to 60 and instead add more Su 30 MKI's and more fleet mordenization and wait for FGFA to arrive, do u agree on this ?

Pierre Zorin said...

Without getting into theological debate for which this forum was not designated may I just highlight a couple of things in response to SNTATA? the term Christian is man made because what spread as Christianity was nothing other than the extension of Judaism except Jews do not recognise that Jesus is the Christ.And the Bible claims itself to be the Word of God and Jesus the ONLY way to salvation. However, anyone is free to believe what they like because Jesus never said we need to win debates and arguments to convert anyone and neither should a true follower of Christ resort to any violence which sadly Hindus and Muslims dish out to Christians. I don't know if SNTATA knows this but right at this moment India is recording the highest numbers of persecutions against Christians ever in its history.If one follows the history one can see that Islam on the other hand is based on conquer by any means theory and a true muslim is supposed to claim every inch his foot travels on for Islam.Anyway this is not the place for religious views and I thank PKS for his magnanimous gesture to allow certain amount of laxity.Please also note this is NOT an attempt to treat anyone with differing views with contempt.

Anonymous said...

Sir, I want to share something. Rafale is costly. If IAF buys 126 Rafales for excess of 10 billion $ , why arent they asking Dassault to enlarge the nose portion for accomodating a larger radar. After all such a costly ac mustn't ave such a small radar. Rafale has the smallest nose and radar aperture area among all MMRCA contenders. Even Gripen had a larger nose. EF Typhoon 's nose diameter is 70 cm,Gripen 60 cm, Rafale 55 cm. With a big nose you can ave a bigget aperture and a longer range. Or you can mount the AESA on a swashplate for 200 degree azimuth coverage as CAESAR AESA in Typhoon. Even then Caesar has a larger aperture. Tejas mk1' nose is even bigger than that of Rafale. RBE2 AESA has 840 TR elements instead of the claimed 1000. Why asnt Dassault paid enough attention to the nose ? An enlargement of the nose is feasible and acheivable. Very little R&D costs will be incurred to do this. This along with a higher thrust engines will make this ac unbeatable. Larger the aperture area and grter the peak power the better it is.Even if Gripen NG is fitted with AESA it is going to have more TR elements than RBE2.
If only IAF had gone for a bigger nosed Rafale.

Negotiations are not going very well with Dassult Avation. Typhoon is the 2nd lowest bidder and EADS has offered revised prices.

abs said...

@Prasun
3)whats your take on this?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/gmr-maldives-spat-china-behind-scrapped-gmr-deal-to-extend-footprint-in-maldives/articleshow/17622309.cms

It seems the jostling for strategic space in the IOR won't stop, even though a few convergences might happen to improve the bilateral relations, but by and large India and China would remain competitors in the long term, with the thrust shifting from(provided the LAC issue is solved) land based to maritime based.Something that the USA will take advantage of, thus ensuring Indian dominance in the entire arc stretching from the Mid East to the Singapore straits. And India might just start having substantial footprints in the South China Sea with increasing strategic partnerships being forged with countries like Vietnam and Thailand.

abs said...

@Prasunda
have you seen the contours of the new Land Acquisition bill, in one shot it makes acquiring of as much as 50% of land in India illegal and if that was not enough it also ensures the land prices to soar by as much as 100-150% if not more, thus ensuring that India's infrastructure creation faces fatal constraints of higher finances, returns on investments and time for clearances, and also that the "affordable housing" theory remains a distant pipe dream. These leaders deserve to be executed after having sent them to Nazi like concentration camps.

Unknown said...

Prasun,

I have seen reports in the Indian media that the MMRCA will be delayed or scrapped because of th 2014 elecetiions becuase of negotions not going so well especially vis a vis HAL. Is this true?

Anonymous said...

Sir, Even J-10B has a larger nose housing a good sized AESA aperture which is definitely more than RBE-2 AESA. IAF would definitely benefit from a bigger nose with a larger aperture radar. Though acs wont ahve to function in standalone manner due to AWACS support both sides are having AWACS and so both have AWACS advantage. Further big radar means big SAR.

raw13 said...

@ravi,

you seem little lost dear!!! stop being afraid of islam. Ever been to ME, then you would know that islam there is much much more conservative!!! Islam in india is softer and less conservative. So when indians go to ME they find a more purer version and adapt it. In Pakistan the society is far more conservative than islam.

@snata,

you seem like an older gent, so i will be gentle. Look up how christanity was spread in South America, Central America? Will open your eyes and then you can make factually correct statements :-)

abs said...

@raw13
What you are forgetting is everyone in this blog is being "gentle" to you. BTW how do you define "purer", is having lesser engagement with the non-muslim world is what constitutes "purer" to you? Therefore let me conclude that "pure" is a relative term in here and it depends on ones viewpoint as to what constitutes "pure". One with blinded sights would have a different perception as compared to one with a more broader view.

Anonymous said...

Sir, what's the status of Nag ATGM. In Aug,2012 the s/s is reported to have failed in trials. Is it the missile which failed in trials or the carrier , when will it be inducted and how many such missiles does the IA will eventually need. Will their induction result in reduction in orders of Javelin/Spike ?
Will they be used solely on Army Helicopters ?

Anonymous said...

@Pierre Zorin

You seem to have a very skewed picture on how the debacle'd managers (what ever you call them)Christianity are desperately trying to buy (literally paying hefty some for the families to convert) as many people as they can, so that they can show progress report to their financial regulators (One step higher who are capable of releasing funds to buy more people) sitting in western nations so that these managers can bargain for more funds for even better results (The main idea here is to silently grab major share of that bargained amount for one's own personal needs). The records are very well falsified when they were showcased to their western counterparts. Just look at the profiles of the people who are engaged in this mass conversion processes, you will be more than surprised to know that most of them are not even qualified personalities (Not even a secondary school degree). Then why they were suddenly enlightened to convert to Christianity? (Because all of a sudden they heard sacred call from Jesus? As they sell their conversion cause to some innocent people from villages and tribal areas. Absolutely rubbish) because they see a very attractive business here, In fact in the disguise of the so called Jesus Call its more an Individual business (Earn as much as you can). Just look at this profile (A very big BRAIN FART) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._A._Paul. He failed in secondary school and was a road roamer. Suddenly he came across this call and then he developed his empire (Out of a western working class hard earned money who innocently donate their money to church hoping it will be useful for the needy, like hospital care, food etc for the needy). But it never ends up like that, it only ends up in people who only see the business gains one can make out of that fat money machine.

Just try to search for some real documentaries and research articles written by noble westerners (Since it will be much more appealing for you in case if you are a westerner) who came here to do some social work under charity and found/enlightened about the very ugly practices followed by these mass propagators inside India. Many of them felt ashamed about it and leave immediately other bold try to highlight this miscreants by trying to publish articles and documentaries. But then ask why these articles and documentaries doesn't come in main stream media?? They do come (Only in a few who publish them daring once a while). Or lets forget about media, Is Christianity top brass is blind folded about this?? No way they very well know about what is happening inside but they still support this cause because all other major parts of the world where Christianity is major religion the population is either saturated (to be Christians) or they ought to be Muslims (Which is where they doesn't try). Just why Vatican city regularly makes statements about the so called oppression inside china (Since because they can not easily use their money laundering weapon to lure their citizens). In fact this conversion business had become so dirty, I myself had seen few people whom I know had just converted to gain some hefty amount (which could help them in clearing some their debts) and reconverting back after some time (You know the funny part here, the managers were angered by this act and they came in to clash with these poor people for reconverting which became a filthy next day article in a local edition news papers).

And finally about your statements of "India is recording the highest numbers of persecutions against Christians ever in its history" is a foul statement.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Hi PKS:

Your point regarding muslamic terrorists within pakistan666 is coming correct to the core.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-79791-Five-killed-in-Peshawar-airport-rocket-attacks

Anonymous said...

Sir,

1. Is a new higher thrust turbofan being tested in LSP-7 for more speed ? LSP-7 has been modified with auxiliary air intakes.

2. EMP hardening of ground based radars with help from Israelis. What are the radars covered in this project ?

3. Are they being totally EMP hardened against a full scale EMP blast ? Are Elta 2082,2084,2102 EMP hardened?

4.Do EMP bast destroys all electronics or only those which are in on state. What is effect on those in power off mode.

5. How much vulnerable to EMP blast Su-30 is ? How much is it hardened against a full scale emp wave?

6. Can a Su-30 fly safely after it is subjected to a full scale blast ? Then will its ada, avionics, digital fly by wire system work ?

7.Are any cluster munition in IAF service which can be used against soft skinned targets like apc, artillery, radars, aircrafts ?

sntata said...

To raw-13,
Dear Soul-mate, Thank you very much for being 'gentle' to a old man. I am profoundly moved by your kindness. A thought has occurred to me and I want to share it with a kind soul like you. If only all your co-religionists, in ME and elsewhere, are as gentle as you, what a peaceful world we will be having today? If only all Pakistanis are as gentle as you, what a prosperous useful country Pakistan would have been today, instead of a failed terrorist state?

To Pierre Zorin.
Dear Sir,
If Christianity is an extension of Judaism, why Christianity's obsession with aggressive conversions, where as Judaism never converts others to its faith?
If you are concerned about increased attacks on Christians in India, do you think there can be a particular reaction without corresponding action? So what are the actions that are producing these reactions? I will give you a clue. Why no Jew or Zoroastrian has ever been persecuted in India all through the ages?

Anonymous said...

"Come 2012 the first batch of 50 Sukhoi Su-30MKI multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA), which were delivered to the Indian Air Force (IAF) between 2001 and 2003, will be shipped back to Russia’s IRKUT Corp in Irkutsk where they will be refurbished and upgraded from into formidable air supremacy MRCAs (to be called Super Su-30MKI), and delivered back to the IAF starting 2014."
Your statement from :
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2011/05/super-su-30mki-from-air-dominance-to.html

When are those first 50 be delivered to Irkut ?

When are you gonna post that arjun-tank ex article ?

abs said...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/apache-attack-choppers-to-be-with-the-indian-air-force-n-a-k-browne/articleshow/17636084.cms
iS it so?

Unknown said...

prasun da,
you have stated earlier that last 2 scorpenes being built by MDL would incorporate MESMA AIP whereas current NAVY chief d k joshi has stated on record that NMRL would develop the AIP for last 2 scorpenes and if they cannot develop in time the subs would proceed without AIP. what's ur take on this??

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun sir,

The current 44 Capital ships Indian Navy is building are envisaged to be commissioned by year 2027 (Including P 75I submarines). Beyond 2027, what could be the possible plans for IN on acquiring different capabilities and Increasing the total number of surface combatants. VMT in advance prasunji.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAVI: To cut a long story short, this is what has been happening over the ages: the essence of every religious philosophy has been & is still being steadily eroded & diminished by, first, the emergence of sects, and second, the emergence of cults. For instance, the original Vedic philosophy got diluted into Vaishnavite & Shaivite sects, and further dilution caused the emergence of cults, like the Bhakti Cult (followers of Krishna). In other words, people are no longer interested in grasping the essence & are more inclined in adopting short-cuts. And the fact that an entire self-contained & standalone economy thrives due to such short-cuts only severs to perpetuate such deviations.

To Anon@8.32AM: AURA will be powered by the Kaveri turbofan. This is an entirely different project that is still being kept under wraps by the DRDO.

TO ABS: The Taliban leaders now being released by Pakistan will be ‘rehabilitated’ by Karzai through financial inducements & will be given lucrative govt contracts for infrastructure reconstruction, just like folks like Hafiz Saeed are being forced to change course & enter the bakery business. Regarding the GMR-Maldives dispute, if at all it is related to the usage of Gan Island, then I will be inclined to believe that the conspiracy theory will see only the US & China being at loggerheads, with the US emerging as the final vistor as all that the US & EU have to do is issue a travel advisory warning Western tourists from visiting Maldives & that will strangulate Maldives economically, for China can’t be expected to financially compensate Maldives for such a paralytic loss of revenue. Therefore, it is inconceivable that the US will lose to China in this gladiatorial contest & if at all the US wants to close Diego Garcia & return it to Mauritius, then it becomes all the more imperative for the US to gain access to Gan Island. As for India, she has already been offered the northern Agalega Island of Mauritius for ‘development’. It is now up to India to play her cards properly, instead of screwing things up like she did in Hambantota.
Regarding AH-64D Apaches, do read this as well: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/usmade-apache-choppers-will-be-for-the-iaf-n-a-k-browne/1046075/0

If you may recall, I was the only one that had highlighted the problems to be faced by the IA’s AAC in terms of creating new air bases & related ground infrastructure, plus human resource challenges like training its personnel in attack helicopter operations. No one, especially the usual ‘desi’ journalists, had even bothered to ask such questions to either the IA’s COAS or the IAF’s CAS. Instead, they came up with shit like these:
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2012/10/in-first-army-to-fly-attack-helicopters.html

http://livefist.blogspot.in/2012/12/statement-on-apache-win-in-indian.html

Therefore, as for the future, only those Rudra helicopter-gunships earmarked earlier for the IAF will henceforth go to the AAC. The Apaches & Mi-35Ps will follow later & this process of transfer will take at least a decade to be completed.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@2/14PM: These mostly fall under the category of dual-use items whose exports are almost impossible to regulate or curtail. For instance, Norwegian MEMS-based gyros for space applications are freely available throughout China & such gyros are the ones that are also used by cruise missiles, NLOS-BSMs & PGMs.

To BRADSHAW: That isn’t true at all. I had already listed the breakdown of the direct offsets processes & how the Tier-2 & Tier-3 Indian vendors would have to perform at: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/04/weekend-musings.html
And I had also listed out the details of the elaborate security vetting procedures (mandated by the Union Ministry of Home Affairs) that these Tier-2 & Tier-3 vendors would have to submit to. The problem is arising due to the Tier-1 direct industrial offsets beneficiary—HAL—finding it unable to give firm commitments about making the reqd degree of financial investments in a time-bound manner. Just look at how HAL is presently three years behind schedule when it comes to setting up depot-level MRO facilities for the IAF’s Su-30MKIs!!! Obviously both the IAF & Dassault Aviation don’t want history to repeat itself & hence Dassault Aviation & IAF are proposing a back-up plan in the form of Reliance becoming a strategic industrial partner for HAL just for this programme so that HAL’s & MoD’s financial limitations do not pose any hindrance to the licenced-production programme.
The problems would have been the same even if any other product—Eurofighter EF-2000 or Super Hornet—been chosen. ToT therefore is a TOTAL NON-ISSUE.

To Anon@3.21PM: Do you know how big a deal it is to change the dimensions of a nosecone & redesign the AESA-MMR’s aperture? Who is going to foot the bill for these modifications, especially since you are of the view that the Rafale is costly? And I also said a number of times that the Ceasar AESA-MMR DOES NOT have a larger aperture than the RBE-2. Photos of the two taken at various expos over the past four years clearly bear this out. Tejas Mk1’s nosecone is bigger because it needs to have internal internal volume to cater for the moving mechanically scanning antenna of the EL/M-2032 MMR in azimuth & elevation. On the other hand, usage of a swashplate-equipped AESA-MMR by Tejas will immediately result in a much smaller nosecone being reqd.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN: Not true at all. Kindly refer to my response above to BRADSHAW for further details. Regarding AIPs for IN’s future SSK acquisitions, refer to: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/12/the-customary-annual-press-briefing.html
The IN wants a proven AIP module, i.e. something that is already in-service with a navy. Definitely the AIP module being developed by NMRL does not even pre-qualify, leave alone qualify. Consequently, the only realistic AIP module that is least risky to adopt will be the Stirling Engine AIP module from Kockums AB.

To Anon@4.56PM: And who will foot the bill for such nosecone modifications????

To Anon@7.44PM: The problem was never with Nag ATGM, but the NAMICA TEL. And how can nag ever become a substitute for Javelin or Spike? They are totally different types of ATGMs in terms of range envelope. Either the PARS-3LR or Spike-ER will be chosen for Rudra helicopter-gunships.

To Mr.RA 13: It is now a full-blown civil war that threatens the writ of the state, with the state itself becoming a default-type due to its inability to catch the bull by the horns.

To Anon@1.04AM: 1) No. 2) All new-generation AESA-MMR radars like EL/M-2084/Arudhra & EL/M-2258. 3) Is there any other type of EMP blast??? 4) Only those that are operating at the time of the blast are affected. 5) It is not EMP-hardened. 6) No way. 7) BL-755 bombs from Hunting Engineering of UK acquired in the mid-1980s & subsequently reverse-engineered by OFB.

To Anon@9.18AM: Not 50, but 42 now, which will be ordered on December 24, 2012.

Unknown said...

Prasun,

I have seen reports in the Indian media that the MMRCA will be delayed or scrapped because of th 2014 elecetiions becuase of negotions not going so well especially vis a vis HAL. Is this true?

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 231   Newer› Newest»