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Friday, April 12, 2013

For Those Interested In Aerospace/Defence Offsets (Updated)

Price: Rs 2,500/-
Postage and Handling Charges:
Delhi & NCR – Rs 100/-
Rest of India – Rs 180/-
Posted below is some data on India-Russia military-industrial cooperative efforts now underway and this proves the fact that, contrary to popular belief about the Russians getting away with murder by not committing to industrial offsets obligations, Russian OEMs have several thriving and expanding industrial partnerships with their Indian counterparts.
Posted below is data on the tactical communications system being proposed by TATA Advanced Systems Ltd for the Indian Army.
Lastly, here's some data on the Javelin and CORSAR lightweight ATGMs.


Unknown said...


If I lived in India I would for sure be picking up a copy for my self!

+Will the ARJUN MK1a, MK2 and MK3 come with a APS?

will the IA's T-90S be given an APS anytime soon?

And would the TANK-EX proposal that you say has gainded liklihood of entering service come with APS?

Also will you be giving an in-depth write up on the F-INSAS anytime soon including defintive dates and timelines?

Is there any reason the F-INSAS receives almost ZERO attention in the Indian media when it is a comeplte revolution and the exciting thing to happen to the IA in some time. The F-INSAS will ensure the IA's utter supremacy over the PA on a man to man level and will do so for the PLA too.

Comparatively the US's land warrior and French FELIN receives extenisve coverage in their respcetve medias and defence experts.

Also are the Indian SF modernising themselves to bring them on par with Western levels? Ie body armour,helmet induvidual kit (NVGs, SATCOM, tactical radios, tools, breaching equipmtent), weapons (assulat, sidearm, sniper, LMG) etc?

And I have heard the NSG are set to roll out their "SUPER COMMANDOS" that will be high-tech and intergated, what exactly will this "super commando" program involve?

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,
Is OFB producing Zittara or any other versions of Tavor at all?

Bhaswar Kumar said...

Prasun Sir,

You had some well thought out ideas about bringing up PSU productivity, something to do with structural reforms within the MOD-PSU relationship. Could you please reiterate them here?

Wiki and other sources show that the fixed wing complement for the Vikramaditya and Vikrant are 16 and 12 respectively, is that accurate. If not then what makes you disagree sir?

Unknown said...


how do you respond to these allegations against the LCA:

Anonymous said...

Prasun, I am sure you heard about allegations made by navy officer's wife on her husband and her seniors.
What do you think? is the woman lying or sadly is this our navy's way of functioning?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN: In today’s globalised environment, one doesn’t have to reside within India to lay hands on books published in India.

With regard to MBTs, all your questions were already answered at:

Regarding F-INSAS, it must be noted that such transformative concepts are all being driven under a bottom-up approach. Consequently, such concepts take an extremely long time to fructify. At the opposite end, a top-down approach always works best & produces quick results. By that I mean far-reaching policy changes made by the Govt of India at the apex-level quickly trickles down to the MoD & from there to HQ Integrated Defence Staff & thence forward to the individual armed services HQs. Unless & until all this happens in the sequential manner outlined above, any transformative concept born within any individual armed services HQ will remain still-born for a long period of time.

As for the NSG’s so-called ‘super commandos’, let’s first begin with the selection of a fit-and-lean-and-mean the Director-General of the NSG who is a hands-on person, instead of appointing IPS DGs with huge bulging ponchos. That alone will be a good & healthy start & everything else about hardware is secondary.

Lastly, regarding the IBN news-report on Tejas Mk1, it is nothing new, but a reiteration of all that I’ve been explaining all along. This news-report now truly vindicates all that I had previously stated & also enables me to have the last laugh!!! Most importantly, it conclusively proves that both the MoD & the DRDO have been consistently lying to both India’s Parliament & India’s citizens by making all kinds of outrageous & totally unjustifiable claims about various IOC & FOC phases. In case you still haven’t got it, here’s what I had stated & explained last month: The news reports on Tejas Mk1’s LSP-8 are erroneous, as are ALL REPORTS relating to that MRCA’s IOC & FOC. For starters, IOC & FOC can be attained ONLY AFTER the aircraft has been delivered to the IAF & the IAF’s designated squadron begins the process of flight conversion. In this case, all LSPs are still ADA’s property till this day & unless the SP-series of Tejas Mk1 MRCAs are delivered to the IAF, the process of IOC won’t even begin. It is for this reason that the IAF’s first designated ‘Tejas’ Mk1 squadron--No45 ‘Flying Daggers’ Sqn—which will initially be first raised in Bengaluru before relocating to Sulur in Coimbatore, is still as of today based at Naliya AFS & is flying the MiG-21 Bison. Therefore, what’s going on today are ONLY the Tejas Mk1’s flight certification & weapons qualification phases. No air force in the world uses aircraft prototypes like LSPs for squadron-level operational flight conversion. It is only the SP-series aircraft that are used for such purposes. So, the sooner everyone starting from the MoD’s Defence Minister right down to the DRDO’s DG Dr V K Saraswat & the ‘desi’ print/electronic media entities begin to understand such elementary facts, the better for everyone involved, thereby avoiding needless obfuscation.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@4.11AM: Nope.

To BHASWAR KUMAR: For all long as they remain as PSUs, their productivity levels will remain low. To cut a long story short, just make them all publicly-listed & let the Govt of India own a golden share in each of them. That will solve all the problems. As for the aircraft complement of INS Vikramaditya, just wait for it to arrive later this year & everyone will then know for sure what the true figures are. All other figures going around are just based on how many MiG-29Ks/UBKs were ordered in January 2004 as part of the first tranche of orders.

To Anon@9.13PM: I tend not to make any comment on such matters that are of a strictly personal nature.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Very interesting development:

Anonymous said...

An old article about rafale.... But good one

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun da

Reg. IA 3rd gen ATGM procurement,There are contrdictory reports coming out from deis media..

TN reported that Israeli spike is the prefred contender, but a single vendor situation has the DAC has forwarded the case to a DRDO committe to evaluate the case..

PTI reported that DAC has told army to avaoid such single vendor situation,,,,

Pls provide the exact thing if possible..Does it mean that javelin is out frm cmpetetion...VMT

Vivek said...

Hi Prasun da,

One off topic question
Germans are believed to be of the same Aryan race as North Indians, is it true, your views? Did the Aryan roots lie in India or do you also believe in the Aryan Invasion theory ? Is is true that India was for long home to a world (or species) that was technologically more advanced than today's west ? If yes then how and when did we loose all that and went on to become slaves for many centuries ? Plus why is today's average Indian so unaware of the country's glorious past ? Why is ASI focussed on only mughal or british history and does nothing to unearth our real past ? Forget mahabharat or ramayan or texts of that old era, an average Indian today does not even know that there was a time when Indian rulers ruled countries like Afghanistan, Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand etc ? Is it true that many ancient sites (like Egypt's Pyramids) had ancient Sanskrit texts including the ones dealing with weapons technology etc ? Can one conclude that ancient Bharat had no religion and Hinduism was a "way of life" and not really a religion?

Is there any link of yours dealing with these things
Your views pl

Thanks in advance

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@11.53PM: Of course the ‘desi’ press-corps will always give contradictory & ill-informed reports, what else can one expect from them? There was never a single-vendor situation to begin with. The Javelin was always a contender along with a new-generation lightweight ATGM from Ukraine as well as from MBDA. The trouble started when the MoD foolishly insisted on transfer of licenced-manufacturing technology that only RAFAEL was allegedly willing to provide, a;beit for a very heavy price. I’m against ToT for such weapon systems simply because they’re a burden on India’s defence budget & only serve to inflate the order books of DPSUs & there are no tangible benefits at all. For instance, BDL has been licence-manufacturing Milan-2 ATGMs since 1986 & till to date, this DPSU has not even bothered to come up with improved versions of this ATGM & instead shamelessly lobbied with the MoD for licence-producing the Milan-2T. Logic should have dictated that BDL & the DRDO ought to have joined forces to come up an equivalent of either the Milan-2T or Milan-3, but clearly this never happened. Now, the same ‘tamasha’ is all set to be repeated again.

To VIVEK: The Aryans actually were from the area around the Caspian Sea that today lies within Russia. Consequently, the original Aryans were inhabitants of this area plus areas in Iran & Azerbaijan. The Germans prior to World War-2 had traced their roots to the Nordic & Scandinavian regions. The Aryans therefore never had any roots within India nor were the Germans the descendants of Aryans. In fact, the Aryans were immigrant settlers along the Indo-Gangetic Plain while the original inhabitants of India belonged to the brown Australoid race (whereas the Aryans belonged to the Caucasoid race). In fact, the original brown race inhabitants of India some 35,000 years ago were far more advanced spiritually & materially than the Aryans. Marine archaeological excavations carried out in the Gulf of Cambay (Khambat) & in an area 50 miles ahead of the present-day city of Dwarka have already validated all this.

Ancient Akhand Bharat (established by Shakuntata’s son) never had any theocracy-based religions like Judaism or Christianity or Islam. Instead, there were philosophies of life (like Vedanta) that existed & were propagated & this is what the Sangam Literature is all about & one can also refer to it as being the Hindu way of life, one that is based on spirituality & one’s symbiotic relationship with the cosmos. This was next picked up by the Sumerians at around 6,000 BC & evidence of this exists in present-day Iraq.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Watch these:

On the unserviceability rates of IA’s 900 T-72s:

The following is a 45-minute 4-part documentary on life inside an upgraded Type 877EKM Kilo-class SSK, INS Sindhuveer, which normally ventures out on 45-day operational patrols. Notice the totally antiquated nature of all on-board control systems:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

What the Pakistan Army's Eurocopter-built AS.550C3 Fennecs are best used for:

Anonymous said...

From Anon @11.53 PM

Prasun da....Now TNN reported today that the israeli missile dela for ATGM is likely to be called off after Army cheif told DAC to cancel the deal,,,this has surprised many ..??

NOW what is happening can u tell us...After sitting on the deal for more then 2 years and then cancelling the deal and stating fresh will take anther 5 years to fructify...

CAN U tell us what is happening and what is likely to happen reg. the ATGM deal

rad said...

HI Prasun
Is it true that the MIG-29 upg has a FBW , system . Is it prudent to get 2nd hand mig 29 and Upgrade them to stem the short fall.
Does ukraine have Anti tank missiles equal to the spike and javelin?.If so they could go the china pak way .
what is the status of the glide bomb in india.

rad said...

HI prasun
The latest MBDA caam missile which looks like the rf guided version of the asrram seems to be a good bet for our sr-sam requirement , wouldnt it be a better option than start from scratch.

SCW said...

Hi Prasun ,

(1) Is India purchasing 3 more Talwar-class frigates from Russia for $3 billion . (Link below)

(2) Is the Indian Army on track to purchase BMP 3 from Russia ?


Anonymous said...

Prasunda, what is the latest news about the tactical communication system for army for which BEL & a consortium were the contenders? Whats new about the multi caliber assault rifle? Regards, Ujjwal.

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,
while browsing through western defence blogs I noticed there authors discuss and give opinion about strategies,policies etc... Where as most of the indian defence blog talked about information(india buying this, india tested that etc... Though yours being a exception).. Why this attitude/mentality?
Plz comment

Mr. Ra 13 said...

What ToT experiences can be really derived from the Rafale, that may be usefull and needfull in the larger and futuristic interests of India, say for the Tejas-3 (if any) , FGFA, AMCA (if any) and UCA’s etc. Afterall Rafale is only a 4++ generation aircraft needed to fill in the vacuum created by the Mig-21/23/27 etc.

However can there be some immediate positive and fruitful impacts created in the short run on the Indian industries by these ToT’s.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.12AM: Already replied yesterday@2.20AM.

To RAD: It is true indeed. Pre-owned MiG-29s have already been gobbled up worldwide & there aren’t any more left. Have already uploaded data on Ukraine’s Corsar ATGM above. For the SR-SAM, the best & least risky option would have been to develop a SAM variant of Astra. However, that opportunity has since been lost.

To SCW: Yes, it’s true & I have been stating the same since 2011. As for BMP-3 ICVs, the matter is only an unsolicited proposal from Russia at this stage.

To UJJWAL: Have already uploaded above the data on TATA’s proposed TCS. RFPs have not yet been issued for this contract.

To GOURAV: I’m unable to throw any light on this issue & I can therefore only speculate that one reason for such prevailing attitudes is either the lack of adequate knowledge regarding the subject matter, or an extreme reluctance to delve deep into the root of the matter in order to ensure objectivity & get a bird’s eye-view of the situation.

To Mr.RA 13: The biggest beneficiaries of ToT will be those SMEs that are already vendors for HAL for on-going programmes like the Su-30MKI licenced-production & Hawk Mk132 licenced-production programmes. That’s because a sizeable chunk of avionics on board the Su-30MKI is also on board the Rafale, i.e. identical items. The other SMEs that will benefit will be those that will be supplying all the rotables, consumables, lubricants, greases, fluids & additives—again these being the very same SMEs that are already doing the same for all other aircraft-types in service with all three armed services. For HAL, the ToT benefits will be of ENORMOUS long-term gain ONLY IF it teams up with Dassault Aviation, THALES & SAGEM for the sake of jointly setting up an integrated GREENFIELD project aimed at establishing a brand-new final assembly-line for the Rafale M-MRCA, along with related brand-new industrial facilities where the Rafale’s airframe parts & components for the M88 turbofan would be built. It is this experience alone that will help HAL to plan the creation of similar facilities for Tejas Mk2/LCA (Navy) Mk2, FGFA and the IL-214 MRTA.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

A very interesting explanation on how electro-gravitic propulsion concepts had been perfected by the US by the mid-1970s & how they’re applied on the B-2 strategic bomber. By the way, such concepts totally contradict the 1st Law of Thermodynamics & Newton’s 3rd Law of Motion, and yet have found practical applications as explained in this presentation:

Pierre Zorin said...

Prasun I just came across this article I reckon this is written by some SU marketer because Australia will never buy anything Russian to irate its band of brother covenant with the US. Besides the US always comes out trumps as far as technology is concerned. Don't you think this article is all baloney?

rad said...

HI Prasun
Can i say that the mig-29 upg is equal to the block-52 pak f-16! considering that the avionics , engine,fuel fraction have all been increased. Malaysia seems not impressed with the MIG-29 and wants to sell it of , what are the reasons, performance or the unreliability?
I also dont understand why the indian mig-29 has never been demonstrated in the aero india airshow ever , is it becasue we dont want others to know its performance ?.
dont you think it would have been wiser to get into a collaboration like the brahmos to make an AAM rather than bungling on and rediscovering how to make an AAM,

SCW said...

VMT Prasun.

But can 3 frigates cost $3 billion ? Meaning each frigate for $ 1 billio

joydeep ghosh said...

ignore the previous one

Prasun da

if i am not wrong sometime back when i said India will order 3 more Talwar frigates and supported it with a link you said no,

Now to @SCW you are saying yes

but even so will it still be a modified Krivak III or Project 11356M (Krivak IV) design

case in point about additional Mig29s

you say all are gobbled up but if I am not wrong Russia or a CIS country does have some in Mig29 in reserve, we can get them

As for getting additional jets last heard France too has some Mirage 2000 in reserve, or if UAE selects Rafales they plan to sell their Mirage2000 to others, we can get them, what say sir


Joydeep Ghosh

Bhaswar Kumar said...

Prasun Sir,

1) Is the upgrade of the MDL complete, with the Goliath crane and modular ship building capabilities, is it operation yet again?

2) I believe that GRSE is also getting the same modular capability, yes? If so then whats the status there?

3)" a new wet basin that offers 25,000 square metres of berthing space for under-construction warships. MDL has long functioned with just the 14,000 square metre Kasara Wet Basin" Is the new wet basin complete, whats the status there?

4)"It must be noted that MDL and GRSE are not India’s first integrated shipyards that are capable of “modular” construction. In the private sector, Pipavav Shipyard already has such capabilities, as will L&T’s shipyard at Kathupalli, when it is commissioned later this year." Is this true sir?

Anonymous said...

hi prasun,

what is the status of kaveri engine now?

also what is the status of kmgt... its been 4 years now since it was developed hasn't it got tested till now?

also can't clgm be made shoulder mounted.... as an shoulder mounted atgm?

also what does it mean that fgfa has crossed development phase....does this means testing is left only

and will Hal, drdo, gtre get benefit of this move in context of that India joined the project pretty late till then a lot of work has already been done by Russia?

VMT in advance...


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

PIERRE ZORIN: Of course it is baloney. What the RRAF needs is just several more F/A-18F Super Hornets as replacements for its existing F/A-18A/B Hornets. This whole F-35 JSF procurement issue is nothing but a prestige issue or an aspiring status symbol, & has nothing to do with operational realities.

To RAD: The MiG-29UPG is far ahead of the F-16 Block 52 in terms of air superiority capabilities, but in terms of low-level tactical strike, the F-16 Block 52 with LANTIRN nav-attack system is superior. Malaysia wanted to decommission its MiG-29Ns since 2007 itself & go for the JAS-39 Gripen/Saab 2000 AEW & CS combination, but the global financial crisis prevented this from happening. For countries like Malaysia with a rather small air force, maintaining a small fleet of less than 16 MiG-29s poses a huge financial burden unless the fleet is backed-up by adequate MRO support, which is impossible to provide for countries like Russia, which unlike the US does not have a global product-support base comprising authorised MRO workshops & regional bonded warehouses for stockpiling spares. MiG-28UPGs were not demonstrated at Aero India 2013 because the first batch of four aircraft at that time were still undergoing acceptance tests by the IAF.

To SCW: No, the Batch 3 Project 1135.6 FFGs won’t cost that much at all, & in fact will work out to be cheaper.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: It was I who had in my previous blog at had first stated that a third batch of Project 1135.6 FFGs would eventually be procured & I had again stated the same thing last year as well. But when asked if they would be ordered this year, I had stated that the priority was to ink the contract for the 7 projected Project 17A FFGs first, meaning the three additional Project 1135.6 FFGs will be ordered in the following fiscal year & not this fiscal year. They will be of the same design as the Batch 2 Project 1135.6 FFGs. As for additional MiG-29s being available in CIS countries as reserves, their airframes are all being cannibalised for spares & are therefore not airworthy. Surplus Mirage 2000s from any country will become irrelevant for the IAF now, since the Rafales are well on the road to being procured.

To BHASWAR KUMAR: 1) Almost complete. 2) Not the same. Will dwell more on it later. 3) Same for this as well. 4) L & T’s shipyard at Kathupalli has already been commissioned.

To AG: Kaveri turbofan is now being redesigned following which it will have to undergo airworthiness certification in Russia once again before being flight-qualified for AURA. KMGT still has another two years of life-cycle tests to undergo before being certified for usage. CLGM is too heavy for being shoulder-mounted. In addition, the reqmt is for a fire-and-forget ATGM & therefore the only two viable candidates are Spike & Javelin at this stage. By ‘development phase’, one means the technology development phase has been concluded & now the prototype development phase (inclusive of detailed design) will begin. Of course HAL will stand to benefit since it will for the very first time will be involved in designing & developing a prototype combat aircraft after the HF-24 Marut. DRDO’s labs too will benefit enormously since DARE will be designing & developing the FGFA’s multi-sensor warning system while GTRE will develop the jet fuel starter, & ADA will be developing the on-board oxygen generation system. There are several other such sub-systems that will be developed by India’s DPSUs & private-sector.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Yet another ill-informed & speculative story from the desi press-corps:

Anonymous said...

hi prasun,
VMT for the replies.

i was also gonna ask about that report which u just posted above....what's the truth please tell.

And you are talking about kaveri for aura.... i was asking about the new kaveri they are developing 75 kn/110 kn version.


rad said...

HI Prasun
Why did the spanish consultants quit ?. Is it because the contract term was over or some thing else.AIP being developed bt drdo with DCNS consultation seems o have a 2 week capacity , what is the the capacity of a full fledged AIP.
Anthony says single window purchases is to be stopped , so for all purposes the spike procurement is going to be stop,stalled.If he has some sense he should know that there is nobody apart from israel and US who have the proven missiles and even europe buys from Israel or US.Who is going to give the stuff ? anthonys father in law?

raw13 said...

Thank you for sharing the skiing video. Absolutely amazing§§§

SCW said...

Thanks for your answers Prasun .

There were reports that Russia is developing a Russian AEGIS system .

Is their a possibility that these systems will be incorporated on the Talwar class frigates that India intends to purchase.

Thanks again.

Anonymous said...

Here comes more trouble

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Has India ever purchased Kabada (second hand) fighter aircrafts from any where. What about other IAF aircrafts if any.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Instead of harping on to the unreliable HTTP-40 Trainer, if HAL seriously and aggressively promotes the Tejas-Mk1 Tandem seat Trainer as the LIFT for the IAF , then the things may be really favorable, beneficial and fruitful to all concerned.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AG & RAD: All right, kindly let me explain. The Scorpene SSK was the result of a trilateral joint venture R & D effort between DCNI, THALES & NAVANTIA & sub-contractors included WASS of Italy & SAGEM of France. This JV was known as ARMARIS. By the time India had inked the Scorpene SSK contract, ARMARIS was on the verge of dissolving & therefore India inked the contract with principal contractor DCNS. However, since NAVANTIA also happened to be the co-IPR owner for the Scorpene SSK design, it was retained by DCNS as a sub-contractor for the Indian Scorpenes & by March 31 this year, NAVANTIA had fulfilled its end of the deal & then its field service representatives the country. So far so good & there were no deficiencies due to NAVANTIA’s departure. What caused the Scorpene production schedule to slip terribly was the discovery by 2009 that of all Indian sub-contractors appointed by DCNS to be the local producers of high-precision hardware like high-pressure valves, pumps & high-precision pipings, only one—FLASH FORGE—could supply such hardware as per DCNS’ specifications, while all others had failed the QC/QA tests. This then caused MDL to place fresh orders for imported pipings, pumps & valves through DCNS & what this has led to is a situation under which hull sub-sections of the Scorpene SSKs that were to have been fabricated at MDL are still incomplete pending the arrival of the imported hardware. Only after these arrive will the hull sub-sections be welded together & the wiring harnesses inserted for the various mechanical, electrical & electronic systems. Another problem that arose in 2011 was the parting of ways between DCNS & WASS, due to which the Black Shark heavyweight torpedo suddenly became expensive to procure, which in turn led to the IN’s preference for the Sea Hake torpedo from ATLAS Elektronik from Germany. But this change of armament will require DCNS to modify the fire-control element of the Scorpene SSK’s SUBTICS combat management system, for which there will be another slight price escalation.

About the fuel cell-based AIP now being installed at INS Shivaji by an NMRL-led consortium & being fabricated by an L & T-led consortium, initial assessments of the R & D effort have indicated that it will be far more expensive than other available AIP options like Stirling Engine or MESMA—meaning it will take at least another decade for an indigenous AIP solution to mature & be capable of offering guaranteed availability non-stop for 42 days as specified by the IN. The present design of NMRL can’t go beyond 18 days & it will therefore definitely not go on board any of the six Scorpene SSKs or even the six projected P-75I SSKs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AG: The 75kn-thrust version of Kaveri is being developed for completing the turbofan’s R & D cycle & it will therefore remain only a technology demonstrator & will not fly on any operational MRCA. However, the benefits of this technology demonstration project will be enormous since it will finally lead to this turbofan maturing to a certain standard which in turn will lead to similar maturities being attained by both that version of the Kaveri that is slated to power the AURA UASV, as well as the KMGT, which is a must since the IN wants to embrace integrated all-electric propulsion systems for all its future principal surface combatants starting with the six (not four anymore) projected LPH that the IN wants urgently & for which RFPs are now ready for issuance.

To RAD: It will be extremely foolish for anyone within the MoD to stop single-vendor purchases, period. The best option still remains the Javelin & an accommodating offsets element can indeed be worked out under which BDL produces the ATGM’s launcher, while all the ATGM rounds can come directly from the US through the FMS channel. Asking for full ToT for the Javelin missile rounds as well tantamount to having the cake & eating it as well, which no OEM in the world will agree to. Even in the 1980s when the Milan-2 ATGM was procured (4,600 launchers & 32,000 rounds) the entire MIRA night-sight was imported off-the-shelf. So much for ToT of the 1980s!!!

To SCW: An AEGIS-type combat management system is possible only when there are multiple ballistic missile early warning satellites available for providing target vectors for the warship-based target engagement system. But clearly the Russians are several years behind the US & Europeans in this arena. Such systems are not required by the IN for its projected Batch 3 Project 1135.6 FFGs, since the three Project 15A DDGs & four projected Project 15B DDGs will be far more advanced than what Russia intends to develop.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@3.15PM: What kind of trouble is that??? The news-report clearly states that all data on the money-trial & intercepted phone conversations is already available to India’s internal security agencies. With that being the case, it will be fairly easy to uncover & neutralise any sleeper-cell that may be lurking out there.

To Mr.RA 13: IAF has never procured any second-hand/pre-owned combat aircraft or military helicopter from anywhere so far. Back in the 1990s, the IN had procured a few Harriers from the US as attrition replacements, plus the six SH-3D Sea King helicopters for INS Jalashwa.

And here’s another totally erroneous & spectacularly ridiculous claim from another ‘desi’ jhournalist who can’t even be bothered to check up matters himself with HAL & yet can make claims like: . The HAL team at Aero India 2013 said that the HTT-40’s only two imported systems would be the engine and the ejection seat, which together cost Rs 6 crore.

I myself spoke to no less than four technocrats involved with the HTT-40 project during Aero India 2013 & ALL OF THEM confirmed that the following items will have to be imported off-the-shelf: engine, gearbox, propellers, ejection seats, primary & secondary cockpit-based AMLCDs, & hydraulic sub-systems related to several of the aircraft’s accessories. I even have the names of those companies that have been shortlisted by HAL for supplying such items.

It will therefore be far more productive on the part of HAL to cease its turf wars with ADA & come on board for promoting the tandem-seat Tejas Mk1 as a LIFT, for which there’s a crying need within both the IAF & IN.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: By the way, there's no OEM in India that even licence-manufactures something as basic as propellers for flying club-based aircraft like the Cessna 152 or Cessna 172, leave alone a BTT like the HTT-40.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Thanx for the elegant replies.

BTW is it possible that HTTP-40 has been introduced only as a chaser, so that the Pilatus-7 Mark-II supply project runs faster and better on the tracks.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: I don't think so. For, the Swiss are precision-minded & don't need to be egged or pushed on by anyone. If HAL is smart enough (which I very much doubt), then it ought to immediately tie-up with Pilatus & become Pilatus' & Pratt & Whitney Canada's sole authorised & approved service centre for not only the PC-7 Mk2 BTTs, but also for the PWC-built PT-6 engines & their propellers. This way, HAL will stand to earn more revenues & this will also save the money & effort that will otherwise be required to be wasted by the IAF in setting up a dedicated Base Repair Depot for the PC-7 Mk2's MRO reqmts. The need of the hour is consolidation & localisation of through-life product support for the PC-7 Mk2 fleet at a time when the capital expenditure outflows for military force modernisation are being reduced in lieu of more Central Govt-initiated handouts/subsidies before the 2014 general elections. Therefore, will common-sense be allowed to prevail over discredited jingoism?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Yes! HAL shall now look at practical and creative lines.

Again, are they still keeping the IJT alive.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Yes, they're trying to, but there's a thunderous silence being maintained by both the IAF & IN regarding this project for the past 2 years, as if both are suffering from selective amnesia.

Anonymous said...

Pradun da,

as per your reply to RAD (April 16, 2013 at 1:26 AM), is the slippage in expected induction of scorpene confirmed (to more than a year, to end of 2016). Just a day prior a French Commander of the bilateral training exersise claimed that the first scorpene will be ready by 2014 and will be inducted in 2015. Clarification will be deeply appreciated.


Anonymous said...

the recent decisions (as pointed by you) to procure 5 mammoth replenishment ships, and to procure 6 LPH (instead of 4) is a very interesting sign. Most likely an expeditionary warfare capability is sought, is IN expecting souch a contingency in a decade in West Asia/ elsewhere?. Why such a large Naval presence when we are contend with a regional stabilizer.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Sreenivas: Judging from past experience, the delivery of the 1st Scorpene will definitely not take place in 2014, that I'm sure of. Whether it will take place in 2015 or 2016 will be known by the year's end.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

See this:

DAshu said...

your post at 16, 2013 at 5:17 AM is the main reason why India cannot and probably would never be a superpower.

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

It is appalling that we still live in such conditions in India. But, I wouldn't care what the Chinese think about us, because they are disgusting in their own way. Just browse (there are daily updates)

Mr. Ra 13 said...

The Chinese can hold any of the opinions. Now they have become rich communists.

SCW said...

Hi Prasun , just need to clarify this part that you said -

"since the three Project 15A DDGs & four projected Project 15B DDGs will be far more advanced than what Russia intends to develop."

How can they be advanced without having an AEGIS type system ? US had offered the AEGIS to India , why didn't India accept it ?

rad said...

HI Prasun
Why do you say that the javelin is a better missile ? performance or cost. Many european countries have gone in the for the spike as well. I understand that Israel has agreed to a TOT of the spike although at a cost .
Going the FMS way is also a one vendor issue , so ultimately Anthony is going to tie hismself into a knot that he cant escape, I think the future gov has a lot to do unravelling stupid decision with boldness and pragmatism which are deficit in all politicians .
comparing the JL-2 chinese sub launched missile and the agni 5 , it seems that the jl-2 with a weight of 42000kg can go up to 13000 km compared to the agni-5 which is around 50000kg and can go only to 5000km , what are we lacking here.

Anonymous said...

Hi, Prasun Sir,

What is the status of 5 OPV to be built at Pipavav Shipyard.

Why design for the OPV was bought from Russia?

Similarly any news for the following will be welcome

a> Minesweeper to be acquired from South-Korea
b> Shallow water ASW ships.
c> Has P-28A been approved in principle?

Thanks in advance.

rad said...

hi Prasun
What is this new attempt to pull the rug from pilatus by HAL ?. first they quoted a price that was more costly now they are quoting a price cheaper and telling the world that they can produce a trainer in a short time.Poor IAF, is it possible even though the intentions may be good.?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To DASHU: Read this:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SCW: The US never offered AEGIS combat management system to India, but only the SPY-1 PESA-based volume-search/target engagement radar, while competing against the ELTA EL/M-2248 MF-STAR AESA-based volume-search/target engagement radar.

SCW said...

Prasun , in that case the Project 15A DDGs & Project 15B DDGs can very easily be targetted by sea skimming cruise missiles as well as the Chinese carrier killer Ballistic missile . Don't you therefore think that India should purchase the AEGIS

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir

The Indian Navy gets only 20 % of our
defence budget but it appears to be doing much better in terms of modernisation programmes

SO is it possible that FALSE news of
IAF and IA facing problems ; scarcities and shortages are deliberately circulated by GOI to
keep our enemies guessing

raw13 said...

Indian culture is a major success story in the UK as well it seems:

ram kumar said...

hello sir,
Has india has requested for bid for 26 fighter jets ..? if yes, then whats the status...?
If no what this pic is saying about.. (right side of pic) ?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

Subho Nobo Borsho to you and all your loved ones .


Ni8 Dweller said...

Prasun da,
You have taken as to the stars in one post and in another brought us down to reality. Interesting read indeed.
It's not that no Indian knows the horrors of Kasi but the level of acceptance is unprecedented. Sadly nothing can shake the perpetrators out of the acts they indulge, for its one thing to take up a fight against someone's faith or foolishness but a cocktail of both, well no wise can handle that. India will continue to be what's it been so far unfortunately.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@9.16AM: VMT for the weblinks.

To RAD: Both Spike & Javelin are technologically on par. But Javelin is a better option simply due to the FMS sales procurement channel, which is the only available channel that is 100% free of corruption from either the buyer’s or seller’s side. And that is exactly why the MoD has since 2005 been reluctant to adopt the FMS route, preferring instead the direct commercial sales route, under which agents & consultants are free to charge their own commissions. Having a single-vendor situation has never posed any security risks to India at all, since the Su-30MKIs, INS Vikramaditya, Ka-31s, Mi-17V-5s, MiG-29Ks, MiG-29UPG upgrade, Mirage 2000UPG upgrade, Barak-1s, Project 1135.6 FFGs, C-130J-30s, IL-214 MRTAs, An-32B upgrade, Milan-2T, Konkurs-M, Scorpene SSK etc etc have all been implemented under single-vendor schemes.
The JL-2 SLBM’s specs are not exactly what you’ve quoted. The figures are far lower & therefore can’t be compared with those of the Agni-5.
Regarding the PC-7 Mk2 versus HTT-40 BTTs, irregardless of whatever ridiculous claims that HAL may make in terms of acquisition costs & life-cycle costs, the fact remains that even if both types of BTTs have identical engines & gearboxes, it is the IAF that will still have to maintain two separate spares inventories, two separate technical type-training schools for its ground-crew, two separate flying training simulator-types in service & two separate sets of jigs & tool-kits for squadron-level & intermediate-level MRO—all this only being unnecessary duplication whose financial brunt will have to be borne by only the IAF, & not HAL. On top of that, there’s a total lack of in-country human-resource expertise when it comes to awarding certifications of airworthiness & that’s the very reason why the Tejas Mk1 MRCA & GHT-36 IJT projects are way behind schedule. After all, developing a factory prototype is one story & having it flight-certified is an entirely different ballgame. Therefore, the bottomline is that the time for coming up with an indigenous BTT has long elapsed. It should have been taken up in the mid-1990s itself under the HTT-35 project.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

TO SCW: That’s precisely why the Barak-2 LR-SAM will be procured by the IN, so that supersonic sea-skimming ASCMs can be neutralised. And contrary to popular perception, there’s no such thing as an anti-ship ballistic missile. Not even the US & Russia have been able to develop & deploy such weapons, leave alone China. And like I explained earlier, AEGIS was never offered to India. It is only offered & sold to those that have defence treaties with the US.

To Anon@8.06PM: No, the record for the IN is not that good either. According to the present CNS of the IN, only 51% of a Made-in-India warship is indigenous by way of content.

To VIKRAM GUHA: And the very same to you & all your loved ones as well.

To Ni8Dweller: Entirely agree with you. And I’m also pretty sure that faith has nothing to do with all such rituals, since all such rituals were conceived, planned & directed by mortal human beings just a few hundred years ago & had no provable divine sanction. The problem is that there are no 21st century icons that can take the intellectual & spiritual lead in terms of altering the popular but discredited public perceptions. By that I mean there’s no one to point these lost souls towards the genesis or essence of spiritualism. Consequently, one is , for instance, forced to rely on the narration of Ramayana by Tulsidas, instead of focusing on Valmiki’s Ramayana. Today one sorely feels the need for commonsensical spiritual visionaries like Vivekananda. Regretably, it is West that is already much more advanced along the path to re-discovering all that was originally prevalent in ancient India (see:, while on the other hand, the moronic entities hailing from the Hindutva Brigade, VHP, RSS etc are hell-bent upon perpetuating such discredited ritualistic norms & practices while shamelessly claiming to follow the ideals & preachings of Vivekananda. And that, my dear ol’chap, is the ONLY reason why India is likely to continue to be what's it been so far, unfortunately.

Vivek said...

Hi Prasun da,
It would be nice if you could also do a piece on the kind of technology, weapons etc that existed in ancient India.

rad said...

HI Prsun
Please quote the range of the jl-2 missile , i got mine from wiki.
there were sequential photographs of an iraninan ballistic missile hitting a target ship which seems to have IR homing .Quite possibly a tech transfer from china. China seems to have a full fledged version of the anti ship ballistic missile which the US has taken note off.You are saying such a missile does not exist , pse explain .,r:0,s:0,i:82&iact=rc&dur=451&page=1&tbnh=198&tbnw=126&start=0&ndsp=16&tx=41&ty=128

Anonymous said...

If not too much of a bother.......what are the various deals you expect will be finalized this financial (13-14)...........

(a) Air force: Rafales ? C-130J's ? more(37) PC-7's ? Jaguar/Honeywell engines-upgrades/DarinIII ? Chinooks ? Apaches ? Phalcon's ?

(b) Army: the M-777's ? Spike/Javelins ? Fennec's (unlikely)??

(c) Navy: Kanganam Minesweepers ?? ShinMaywa US-2's ?? any Helicopters ?? additional Project 1135.6 Frigates ?

toned down from a long list..........

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun ,

Our company organizes conferences for the defense forces and we were thinking about organizing a Helicopter conference in India . Can you please suggest what topics pertaining to technology & procurement( of India's Armed Forces)we can include ?

Thanks for your time .

Anonymous said...


Will the 6 LHD requirement for IN will of the type equivalent to America class LHDs? Or some what smaller with less displacement (Like the Wasp class LHD). These LHDs once operational will house any VTOL aircraft like F-35 II B Lightening aircraft? VMT

Anonymous said...


Arihant with slight alterations in its present configuration (with its dimensions and displacement) can be converted to an SSN? (Like adding one more nuclear reactor module and two more ballistic missile modules and increase in its propulsion system capacity etc by making it even quieter). These changes may bring its over all displacement well over 8000 tons surfaced (similar to the Akula class). Its design can be quickly friezed and can also be built at quicker pace since it shares lot of design features with Arihant which is already being built and operationalized (So many systems could be proven by then). It gives IN an operational flexibility to deploy significant number of cruise missiles (Combination of Fast Attack Brahmos + Long range stealth subsonic Nirbhay) along with its regular complement of torpedoes. Your thoughts VMT.

Anonymous said...

Learn something new here for today

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@4.06PM: It will indeed be a great bother, since not just me, even the Union Finance Minister of India won’t be able to give answers to such queries. For, instructions have already been issued to the MoD to delay as far as is legally possible all major procurement contract signatures. People who expect major contracts to be inked this fiscal year definitely don’t have clue about just how bad the resource crunch within the country is at the moment.

To Anon@12.15AM: The projected six LPHs will displace no more than 20,000 tons. Only helicopters & LCAC-type hovercraft will be on board, no fixed-wing aircraft.

To Anon@12.39AM: The existing design with only one on-board 83mW PWR cannot become an SSN, but an SSGN. Design alterations are not possible since the IPR of the design is Russia’s, not India’s. India only holds the IPR for the PWR & some of its on-board systems (see following thread). Therefore, there’s no other choice but to go for a brand-new SSN design, i.e. something similar to the Barracuda-class from DCNS. Nor can the Arihant be produced in large numbers since the Russian licence is for only three units, following which three more SSBNs—S-5, S-6 & S-7 each with 12 SLBM launch-silos—will be built. As for SSNs, the reqmt is for nine units.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIVEK: There were a total of 46 different types of weapon systems used during the Mahabharata war. Most of them were of the directed-energy type, or beam-weapons, while others were of a kinetic-type. Did a 22-page write-up on them all a decade ago. Will try to look for it in my archives & dust it up.

To RAD: The JL-2 SLBM’s demonstrated range thus far is only 6,400km. The Iranian missile is not of the ballistic-type, but a depressed trajectory NLOS-BSM, with TV guidance for terminal homing. Consequently, it can be used only for littoral warfare & that too when the target is fairly close to the coastline, i.e. typically in the Persian Gulf, where target acquisition within very narrow sea lanes of communications will be possible. Such missiles will be totally useless in the high seas or even along the Straits of Malacca, for instance.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIVEK: In the Mahabharata, the following weapons were used:
• Agneyastra is the fire weapon, which belongs to God Agni, master of flames. Drona and Arjuna used it.
• Brahmastra is the Brahma's weapon. It is the most sinister weapon with the power of atomic destructiveness. Brahmastra is considered to be the very deadliest of weapons. When a Brahmastra is discharged, neither a counterattack nor a defense of any kind can stop it.
• Gandiva is a miraculous bow God Agni gave to Arjuna.
• Kaumodaki is the Lord Vishnu's invincible celestial mace.
• Narayanastra is the missile weapon of Lord Vishnu.
• Pashupatastra is the Lord Shiva's weapon, one of the most destructive ones.
• Vimana is the Sanskrit term for a flying machine and it has several occurrences in the Mahabharata. It is translated with words such as "celestial car" or "celestial vehicle" and an example from the Mahabharata.
• Vishnu's chakra (Sudarsana) is a sharp spinning disc.
• Aindra astra: Would bring about a shower of arrows from the sky.
• Agneya astra: The weapon discharged would emit flames inextinguishable through normal means.
Varuna astra: The weapon discharged would release torrential volumes of water. This weapon is commonly mentioned as used to counter the Agneyastra.
• Naga astra: The weapon would have an un-erring aim and take on the form of a snake, proving deadly upon impact.
• Naga paasha: Upon impact, this weapon would bind the target in coils of living venomous snakes. In the Ramayana, it was used against Lord Rama and Lakshmana by Indrajit.
• Vayu astra: Bring about a gale capable of lifting armies off the ground.
• Surya astra: Create a dazzling light that would dispel any darkness about.
• Vajra astra: Target would be struck with bolts of lightning.
• Mohini astra: Dispel any form of maya or sorcery in the vicinity.
• Twashtar astra: When used against a group of opponents (such as an army), would cause them to mistake each other for enemies and fight each other.
• Sammohana/ Pramohana astra: Would cause entire hosts/armies to collapse in a trance.
• Parvata astra: Would cause a Parvata/mountain to fall on the target from the skies.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIVEK: The following are the major weapons that Viswamitra gave Rama with upasamhaara vidhaanam (instructions & protocols for their usage):
1.Dharma Chakra. 2.Kaala Chakra. 3.Vishnu Chakra. 4.Indraastra. 5.Vajraastra. 6.Shiva shuula Astra. 7.Brahma Shiro Astra. 8.Aishikaastram. 9.Brahmaastra.10. Modaki and Shikari (two maces). 11.Dharma Paasham. 12.Kaala Paasham. 13.Vaaruna Paasham. 14.Vaarunaastra. 15.Shuskam and Ardhram (two divya lightning-like astras). 16.Painaakaastra. 17.Naaraayanaastra. 18.Shikhara, also called Agneyyaastra. 19.Vayavyaastra. 20.Haya Shirassu. 21 Krounchaastra. 22.Kankaalam. 24.Kankanam. 25.Kapaalam. 26.Vaidhyaadhara Mahaa astra. 27.Nandana. 28.Gandhrarva maanavaastra. 29.Souraasta.
30.Darpanaastra. 31.Shoshnaaastra. 32.Santaapanaaastra. 33.Vilaapanaastra. 34.Taamasaasta. 35.Souma astra. 36.Samvardhaastra. 37.Mousalaastra. 38.Satyaastra. 39.Mayaa dharaastra. 40.Shishiraasta. 41.Sudhaamanaastra. 42.Shiteyshuvu astra. 43.Maanavaastra. 44.Kaama roopaastra. 45.Satyavantam. 46.Satya keerti. 47.Dhrushtam. 48.Rabhasham. 49. Prati haara taram. 50.Paraanghmukham. 51.Avaanghmukham. 52.Lakshaakshamu. 53.Vishamam. 54.Dhrudhanaabham. 55.Sunaabham. 56.Dashaaksham. 57.Shatavaktram 58.Dasha sheersham. 59.Shatodaram. 60.Padmanabham. 61.Mahaanaabham. 62.Dundunaabham. 63.Sunaabham. 64.Jyotisham. 65.Krushanam. 66.Nairaasyam. 67.Vimalam. 68.Yogandharam. 69.Haridram. 70.Daityam. 71.Prashamanamu. 72.Saarchishmaali. 73.Dhruthi. 74.Maali. 75.Vrittimantam. 76.Ruchiramu. 77.Pitru soumanasam. 78.Vidhootamu. 79.Makharamu. 80.Karaveeramu. 81.Dhanamu. 82.Dhaanyam. 83.Kaama roopam. 84.Kaama ruchi. 85.Mohamu. 86.Aavaranamu. 87.Jrumbhakamu. 88.Sarvanaabhamu. 89.Santaanamu. 90.Varanamu.

Anonymous said...

please write an article related to the stealth characteristics of AMCA.(predicted range of its RCS from model etc.,)
thank you in advance

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