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Wednesday, May 15, 2013

Spotlight On Indian Navy's Forthcoming Accretions

The first of three (out of the eight ordered) Boeing-built P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance/anti-submarine warfare (LRMR/ASW) aircraft due for delivery this year is expected to reach INS Rajali at Arakkonam later today.
Germany-based ATLAS Elektronik has secured the contract for supplying its ACTAS ultra low-frequency active/passive towed-array sonar for the Indian Navy’s (IN) three upgraded Project 1241PE ASW corvettes (INS Abhay, INS Ajay and INS Akshay), which were also re-engined with MTU-1163 diesel engines two years ago by Kolkata-based GRSE. The ACTAS is also likely to be acquired in the near future for the IN’s three Project 17 guided-missile frigates (FFG), four Project 28 ASW corvettes and the seven projected Project 17A FFGs. A separate competition is now underway for procuring ultra low-frequency active/passive towed-array sonars from either ATLAS Elektronik or L-3 Communications’ Ocean Systems Division for the IN’s existing three Project 15 guided-missile destroyers (DDG), the yet-to-be-commissioned three Project 15A DDGs and the yet-to-be launched four Project 15B DDGs.
Shown below is the OMUT internally-mounted EW jammer from Ukraine’s Radionix Ltd for the IN’s MiG-29Ks and MiG-29KUBs, plus the ELTA Systems-built EL/L-8222 jammer configured for escort jamming purposes.

The IN will also later this year receive eight specially configured Heron-1 MALE-UAVs (equipped with SATCOM antennae and ELM-2054 AESA-based search radar) and their related shipborne flight-/mission-control stations. These eight Heron-1s will make use of the IN’s GSAT-7 fleet tele-communications satellite for receiving and relaying data from and to shipborne flight-/mission-control stations, with the IN’s principal surface combatants as well as shore-based naval establishments using the secure LINK-2 data-link network for sharing all such data in real-time. 
By the year’s end, the IN will be operating a total of 14 Kamov Ka-31 shipborne AEW helicopters. On the other hand, the first two of 17 Hawk Mk132 advanced jet trainers will be delivered by HAL before the end of this month.
Lastly, shown below is one of three different types of Solas Marine-built FICs and rapid intervention vessels (RIV) for the IN’s Sagar Prahari Bal and MARCOS.


Vamshi Al said...

Hello Prasun,
I like your blog, I go through your replies and posts pretty much every day. I am impressed with your contribution to help people understand and know information on Indian security issues and measures.
I have a few questions - I would appreciate if you answer them in detail.
1) Does Russia favor China over India in terms of defense technology transfers? I see a lot of renamed Russian/USSR equipment in Chinese forces being inducted or reengineered. When it comes to India, all I hear is the crucial technologies being held from Russia to India or weapon delays etc. I wonder why.
2) Why does MOD favor foreign suppliers or Indian government owned agencies for defense procurement over Indian private sector like TATA/Mahendra etc? Would not it be great if Indian private sector is allowed to participate equally as DRDO, ADA whatsoever for R&D and weapon procurement?
3) Why can’t India make a bunch of required equipment at the same time instead of making one after another which delays the process so bad? For example: Why can’t we make like 4 Arihanth Subs at a time instead of one after another.
4) Do you see any possibility of India increasing its defense budget in coming few years considering China and Pakistan aggression? If you were to guess, how much would be the increase.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Prasun da,

6 Kamov helos were to come along with Ins Vikramaditya. Reports were that 3 were Ka31 and 3 Ka28 ASW helos. While other reports said it to be all Ka28 ASW helos.
What is the status?

Anonymous said...

from your explanation regarding future of J&K and Aksai chin and the end-state according to you , I can see only one looser - that is India no one else .
The entire solution you are talking is totally against Indian interest.

Anonymous said...

why cannot be the below points solve that J&K issue

1- by taking back entire POK by force if needed .after all India had passed one resolution in parliament to take back POK by that great AB :)
2 - yes India cannot take on china so she has to loose Aksai chin .
3- by demilitarizing Siachen Glacier India will play into the hands of both Pak and china exis.
4- India should give part of Arunachal and get back Aksai chin
5 - lastly I don't think lasting peace for India is in the hands of China .
but from your suggestions I can see only one looser .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VAMSHA AI: 1) Absolutely not. In fact, Russia has been pissed off with China fir at least a decade after China reverse-engineered the Su-27SK & Su-30MKK into the J-11A & J-11BS with Ukraine’s help. In contrast, Russia has never held back on its defence technology transfer commitments, & has always adhered to its contractual commitments. 2) India’s private-sector has been sidelined due to administrative anomalies prevailing within the MoD. The day such anomalies are removed, a level playing-field will come into play. 3) It is purely a question of how deep one’s pockets are. As of now, India simply lacks the economic clout necessary to undertake such ambitious & highly challenging hardware production programmes. 4) I don’t see any aggression taking place by either of India’s neighbours at this point in time.

To Anon@7.26AM: The order for 3 Ka-28PLs & 3 Ka-31s was placed concurrently with the order for the first 16 MiG-29Ks & MiG-29KUBs plus the INS Vikramaditya back in January 2004. Those helicopters already arrived in the previous decade.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To DASHU: Well, beggars can’t be choosers, for India had way back in 1950 itself unilaterally surrendered her claim to Aksai Chin by publishing the first official map of post-independent India—something that I had highlighted two previous threads before. And again in 1972 during the Shimla Summit India had agreed to turn the LoC into a permanent boundary. And lastly, over the past four years, India has kept mum whenever there has been any official Pakistani statement about making Gilgit & Baltistan Pakistan’s fifth province. As for your other points, here’s the dilemma:
1) Use of force is now totally ruled out since it will only lead to both countries climbing the nuclear escalatory ladder. The only golden opportunity to do so was in mid-1999 when India had the perfect excuse to do so. But it was India that squandered this opportunity. And such opportunities never come twice.
2) Question of losing Aksai Chin doesn’t even arise since India never owned it in the very first place! Remember the 1950 map issued by India?
3) Demilitarisation of any area never takes place unless it is agreed to by all concerned parties. No one is asking India to take any such unilateral step, although India’s so-called founding fathers have had a penchant for unilaterally giving away territories.
4) There are no takers for this swap, since Arunachal Pradesh is no strategic significance whatsoever for China, while Aksai Chin is vital for China since it ensures all-weather & all-year-round connectivity between TAR & Xinjiang.
5) Only time will tell.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

you may be right about the swap as the 'neeela kitaab' of chinese says good words but problem is words dont matter much until written

If you ask me I wish flogg the man who invented the diplomacy language as something written in main text has one meaning, same thing written in sub text has different meaning, same thing written in note/subnotes has different meaning, and written in annexure has entirely different meaning, WTH

The Chinese are very good at that, however India has said settlememt of boundary dispute must serve strategic issues,

India giving away the entire Aksai Chin doesnt help India strategically as it has to meet public aspiration also it must be known that catchment area around Indus are believed to hold lot of minerals & oil that remain unexplored.

China claims AP but doesnt hold it but holds Aksai Chin. so if it want to solve boundary issue it has to give up area in that part. that is why i say China will give up area till west of Aksai Chin road they built in 1959.

Holding on to areas further west doesnt serve China but if India holds them it will help India vis a vis Pak and exploring & using natural resources as well.

Agreed undefined border gives any one chance but China has already taken land from Mongolia, Kyrgyzstan, Bhutan, Nepal and not to mention islands on the east only giving up land to Russia. China believes in a funda that what land it holds is its no talks can be on that and talks can be held on what else it can grab more. India needs to grind China further like a test batman and make it bowl according to its needs. what do you say?

Joydeep Ghosh

Anonymous said...

The Indian Navy is set to receive four additional Kamov Ka-28 anti-submarine warfare and five Ka-31 radar picket helicopters when its new Vikramaditya aircraft carrier is delivered, hopefully by the end of 2013. The new rotorcraft will supplement nine Ka-31s delivered between 1999 and 2004 and 16 Ka-28s that entered service in the late 1980s.


Vamshi Al said...

Great, thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. I read a lot about technology being transferred to India from different suppliers, I wonder if we make a complete use of these tot's in making indigenous weapon systems.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: The devil always lies within the details & one cannot blame China if India continues to be in a state of denial & the blind continues to lead the blind. Don’t forget that it was Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru who caused most of India’s monumental errors of epic proportions & till this day most of Inbdia’s politicians continue to revere such a personality, I,e. his mistakes must never be admitted as mistakes. That may work well for many a selfd-deluding Indian citizen, but it doesn’t cut any ice with the rest of the world. Consequently, India’s citizens must decide once & for all whether it is better to cut one’s losses & move on ahead, or live in a perpetual state of denial by continuing to celebrate Nehru Jayanti & what not every year & get embroiled in an arms with China that will only make the country bankrupt. And talking about public perceptions, exactly what percentage of Indian citizens really do give a damn about a piece of land which is incapable of hosting settled human habitations? After all, we’re talking about a country in which citizens of one state don’t even give a damn their fellow citizens in a neighbouring state. For instance, exactly how many citizens of West Bengal voluntarily decide to forego their annual Durga Puja celebrations in 2011 & instead donate the money saved by such a gesture to neighbouring Sikkim, which had then suffered an earthquake? Truth does hurt, doesn’t it?
China has so far never officially claimed the entire area west of NH 219 in Aksai Chin, but neither has India. India’s perception of the LAC clearly proves this point. Had India really desired to covet such an area, she would then have established a string of well-defended forward posts immediately after the 1962 conflict, since the Indian Army had decisively defeated the PLA by using AMX-13 light tanks during the conflict & could well have advanced forward since the PLA by no means could deploy any armoured vehicles anywhere in western Aksai China. Yet, it was India that once again squandered such an opportunity. Therefore, from the standpoint of international legal arbitration, India is on extremely weak ground when it comes to Aksai China. And as for China grabbing land from Russia, Mongolia, Kyrgyzstan, Bhutan or Nepal, the fact remains that officially there are no territorial disputes between China & all these countries. All these countries have formally struck border demarcation agreements wth China & once that happens, then the deal remains the deal, irregardless of how unfair ir fair the agreements are. That’s the way of the world. And as for India grinding China, that is totally unlikely to happen for at least the next 50 years since India does not have the necessary geo-economic clout to match that of China. And judjing by the way things are playing out internally within India, I very much doubt anyone in India has the stomach to take on China in this manner. You don’t have to go too far to seek further evidence of this: just ask the Russians which country they will support in the event of a future round of China-India hostilities, & their reply will be the same as that of Mikhail Gorbachev back in 1989.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.46AM: That information is totally wrong. All Ka-28PLs & Ka-31s ordered in 2004 were delivered within four years of contract signature. No OEM takes nine years to build nine helicopters. What that story ought to have said was that once INS Vikramaditya is commissioned in service later this year, it will have on board, apart from the MiG-29Ks, the five Ka-31s & four Ka-28PLs.

To VAMSHI AI: ToT takes place only for ‘know why’. Indigenous R & D on the other hand is all about ‘know-how’, which no exporter parts with. The two are completely different.

abs said...

1)Despite China being spoofed by India's efforts to upgrade the deterrent to that of Conventional and Strategic deterrent including a more offensive stance vis-a-vis china, why do you reckon that India's civilian masters can't muster enough courage to take on China?
2)As far as the Chinese economic clout goes, i believe that in the very near future China is about to go kaput, something that even the greatest of China bulls have slowly begun agreeing to. IF India gets her act right now and is able to sustain double digit growth for the next 2-3 decades,then quite easily India would be able to garner the much required financial clout. Hence in view of the above, its China that seems to be having a big disadvantage.And ultimately India should formulate its future foreign and military policies according to these goals.

AK said...

Hi Prasun, Did you learn any good tits-bits about force accretion plans of IAF ? The Navy seems to be going full steam ahead now a days while IAF is in deep hibernation.

Did you learn anything about MMRCA contract?When can contract signature take place at the earliest and when will the first deliveries take place ?

Will you pls elaborate the actual reasons behind the 1st 4 Su-30mki crashes that you learnt about at the seminars?Are correct procedures in place and has all the technical faults especially the ones related to FBW rectified all across the fleet ?

Can you give some details of the air to air and AGM armament package for IAF MiG-29UPG that were signed as supplemental contracts after MiG-29UPG upgrade deal with RAC MiG in 2009 ?

How many EL-8222 have been procured to date for IN MiG-29UPG fleet ? EL/ 8222 is not a dedicated escort jammer but a self defense jammer.Why hasnt IN gone for dedicated wide band EL/M-8251 escort jamming pod from IAI ?

How does ELT-568 compare with Radionix OMUT ? Both are internal ew suites. Why at the last moment IN opted for OMUT instead of ELT-568 ?I have been hearing for quite some time about the presence of elt-568 in IN MiG fleet .

What internal ew suite, jammer IAF MiG-29UPG is having ? ELT-568 or OMUT ?

Does Ka-31 have msws, ir jammer,dircm,chaff and flare dispenser? They are the eyes and ears of a naval task force ?

There are 5 Project 1241RE corvettes?Why only 3 were upgraded? What about the other two ?Why doesnt the corvette whose pic you have posted doesnt have any ashm ?

ATLAS ULF TAS can be straightaway selected for P-15 and P-15A DDG. Commonality of equipments will incur lower life cycle costs .

Why do you say that IN Kilo class SSK have far more firepower than other South Asian Kilo class subs ? PLAN Kilo class are also equipped with 3M14 and 3M54 Klub cruise missiles. Vietnam Navy are also receving new build improved Kilo class with improved sonars,diesel engines,enddurance and fire control systems.

Can an operational BMD be fielded for NCR missile defense? Which agency is helping DRDO to design,build the exo-atmospheric hit to kill vehicle for PDV ?

What is the status of S-band long range ground based radars for IAF ? Is competition still raging?Which is IAF's preferred choice ?

In the recent wake of OSAAKM missile rounds failing to hit theirv targets what is IAF planning ? Will IAF go for immediated QR-SAM procurements to plug in interim gaps and pkase out these OSA-AKMs ? OSA-AKM batteries are an important part of BADZ of many Western and NW airbases. If the problems arent rectified or replacements bought then God help IAF.

You need to open private coaching classes to educated our countries defense journalists.just go through

197 choppers are meant for replacing Chetak, Cheetah fleet of LUH and not ALH.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: 1) It is simply because India’s strategic deterrent is still work in progress & is unlikely to be truly effective until 2024 at the very keast. Why? Firstly, because Agni-5 ICBM is still under development & what will eventually be series-produced will be that version of Agni-5 that will carry four MIRVs. This version of Agni-5 is unlikely to arrive before 2018 at the very best. Secondly, the most secure & reliable element of India’s nuclear triad—the 6,500km-range MIRV-armed SLBMs on board the projected S-5, S-6 & S-7 SSBNs—are unlikely to be fielded before 2022. Without these two vital elements, India’s strategic deterrent will not be credible against China.
2) China is most unlikely to go economically bankrupt, since too many countries have heavily invested in the Chinese economy & consequently, if China falls, several others from the West & East Asia too will come crashing down. And if that happens, India can’t remain isolated from the aftershocks. As for India scoring double-digit growth rates, just forget it, for I see no discerning Indian political leader emerging even over the next 10 years t take the kind of difficult decisions that need to be taken. Only if a govt of national unity emerges will it be possible to take such difficult decisions—something that is beyond one’s imagination judging by the way things are playing out at the moment. China is definitely aware that its economic growth rates will continue to slow down & for that it needs to pump more expenditures into its domestic economy for the sake of sustaining consumption-led growth patterns. This in turn means it will have to improve its internal infrastructure deep within the country’s interior instead of just keeping it limited to China’s coastal regions. And for this, China’s annual defence spending levels will have to register some meaningful decreases. The only way this can happen is by reducing its still gigantic land forces, while maintaining modest increases in funding levels for the PLA Navy & 2nd Artillery Corps. This can only be done if China decides not to get involved in a spiraling arms race with India across the LAC & instead makes peace with India through purposeful negotiations.

Anonymous said...

yes Truth does hurt .

Anonymous said...

India has ordered 8 P8-i with a follow on of 4 more.Boeing plans to sell 30 P8's to India.
What is India's plan stationed at chennai 12 P8,will they be able to cover all the oceanic boundaries?
Do we have any plans to have these deployed at Andaman Nicobar islands.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AK: IAF’s force accretion pans are quite well-known to all & there’s nothing noteworthy to add. On the M-MRCA, the final call will be taken by the Union MoF & not by the MoD, since the MoD has already done its job & the Union MoF has refused to sanction the deal until the Union MHA concludes its security vetting of all Indian vendors/sub-sontractors—a pre-condition that was imposed by the Union MoF only in mid-2012, this being a delaying tactic! The first 3 Su-30MKI crashes were all due to the catastrophic failure of the analogue flight control computer which in turn was due to inadvertent switching off of the electrical power-supply circuitry by the aircrew (i.e. human error). The last crash earlier this year was due to premature airborne explosion of a gravity-bomb immediately after launch due to faulty fuzing (i.e. again human error). Weapons package of MiG-29UPG is the same as that of MiG-29K/KUB, i.e. R-73E, R-77, Kh-35UE & Kh-31P, plus Litening-2 LDPs along with Griffin-3 LGB. The reqd ratio for EL/L-8222 ASPJ is 2: 1, meaning one pod per two aircraft. Altogether, there are less than 100 EL/L-8222s in service right now, but more will be procured in future. EL/M-8251 is required when more than eight aircraft are taking part for a strike package. IN is not yet able to mount such large strike packages in one go. A simple external look at the MiG-29K/KUB will reveal that the ELT-568 isn’t there on board. The rear-facing ELT-568 jammer element on the MiG-29UPG is clearly visible on its starboard-side vertical tailfin (while no such installation is there on the MiG-29K/KUB), while on the MiG-29K the OMUT’s rearward-facing EW transmitters are mounted in the wingtips. Ks-31 has RWR & countermeasures dispensers. The Project 1241PE vessels are ASW corvettes for protecting naval bases only & therefore they don’t have ASCMs. Only 3 were upgraded because the other two were writeoffs. For the P-15, P-15A & P-15B DDGs the IN wants a bistatic sonar operation solution for which the ULF TAS must act in conjunction with a heliborne ULF dunking sonar, preferably from a single sonar OEM. In South Asia the PLAN or Vietnam Navy doesn’t come into play, for they are Southeast Asian players. Like I said before, for a credible land-based BMD system to be effective, it must have a network of long-range X-band early warning/tracking radars that are supported by a satellite-based early warning system. None of them exist in India as of now & therefore all talk of having a credible BMD system for NCR is ill-informed speculation. No decision has been taken as yet on the winner for the high-power airspace surveillance radar competition. As for OSA-AKMs, it is starkly clear that the IAF’s ammo stockpiling techniques/practices have been proven deficient & the only short-term option therefore is to go for emergency imports of new-build missile rounds from Russia in order to replace the existing defective inventories. Lastly, if only these ‘desi’ journalists bothered to do a survey on exactly how many Bell 47G helicopters of 1950s vintage are still in use worldwide as training helicopters! The existing Chetaks & Cheetahs can easily be re-engined with TM-333-2B engines (to become Chetans & Cheetals) & they will remain extremely viable for another 15 years in the very least, especially for critical high-altitude air-maintenance & surveillance missions throughout the LAC. And once in the fullness of time HAL does manage to deliver trouble-free & snag-free LUHs, then these Chetans & Cheetals could easily be transferred to the CAPFs & NDMA.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@12.28PM: A projected P-8I fleet of 28 units will be enough to cover the IOR & Arabian Sea & Andaman Sea, provided the P-8I is also acquired for the MRMR/ASW platform reqmt. There will then be rotating detachments of a single P-8I operating out of Andaman & Nicobar at any given time.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AK: That 'desi' arsehole of a journalist along with the rest of his 'desi' herd was present at yesterday evening's briefing in New Delhi that was given by ATLAS ELEKTRONIK. None of them even asked the most basic questions like who's supplying the fibre-glass sonar domes for hull-mounted sonars, or who's supplying buoy-mounted sonars for the DRDO's deep-sea torpedo test-range.

AK said...

Hi Prasun, For P15, P-15A, P-15B which among ATLAS and L-3 is IN's preferred choice for ULF TAS ?

When will the MiG-29UPG upgrade program begin at 11BRD? What will be BRD's annual MiG-29 upgradation rate ?

Is their an production capability expansion taking place at Ozhar since from 2014 it will also handle Su-30 upgrade program.

Since MIRES AESA is in low rate production does it imply that MoD ahs already signed the 3rd mass production contract with NIIP Tikhomirov ?

At the various naval seminars did you get to learn about the time schedules of P15 DDG SLEP ? Under this SLEP, isnt the aft RAWL air-search radar going to be replaced with RAN-40L ?

Cant IN relife , refurbish and upgrade its fleet of Tu-142 ? It will be a lot cheaper than ordering more P-8I? Also, Tu-142 is of more recent vintage compared to IL-38SD .

Why does IAF and IN keep on ordering Litening -2 LDP when 3 and g4 versions are avialable. Why go for ordinary LGB like Griffin in today's era ? IAF and IN can ask IAI to come up with a glide wing kit for Griffin for 50
+ km rangevand enhance it by incorprating inertial navigation. Laser designation is weather dependent. Why not go for all weather standoff PGM like AASM, Spice-1000,2000 kits,MSOW ? They are cheaper than AGM and also gives a good standoff range keeping the host ac well outsde modern MR-SAM engagement envelopes.

Uptill when will IAF continue to use iron bombs. Rampant use of these bombs without any standoff range were made during vayu Shakti 2013 firepower demonstration. Will IAF also resort to such antiquated bombs during actual war scenarios ??

Does IAF plan to conduct test firings of its Pechora SAM from PXE to test its effectiveness and reliabilty. If IAF's ammo storing and handling practises are faulty with regard to OSA-AKM rounds, what guarantess are theres that such faulty practises are also employed for its various AAM inventories ?

Does IAF conduct periodic test firings of its Russia origin AAM - R-72, R-27, R-77 to test their operational status ?

Wont it be better to go for emergency procurement of SA-15 Gauntlet to replace OSA-AKM ? OSA-AKM have been superceded in Russian service by SA-15 Gauntlet. SA-22 Panstir wil also be a good option. It can also fuction as C-RAM.

Currently IN faces an acute shortage of Barak-1 missiles for its frontline FFG and DDG. Naval variant of Maitri wont be available uptill 2018.CBI is investigating the Barak-1 deal. What will IN do ? Go for emergency imports of Barak-1 rounds from IAI ? Will you ask about this during your next visit to any IN occasions ?

How does our Kilos comapre to Kilos of SE nations like PRC, VN ?

What and in what nos AAM , AGM were ordered from Russia for MiG-29UPG ? Havent IAF R-77,R-27 inventories reached the end of their service lives and need replacing ?

Almost all those countries having a Su-27,Su-30 inventory house their Su-27,30 in hangars,sun shelters so that they are not indefinitely exposed to weather elements. PLAAF has also established sun sheters at TAR airbases, and in Shigaste for periodic Su-27,30 deployments ?While in our case, Su-30 lie open in the dispersal and parking areas fully exposed to the elements. A brown fabric just covers the cockpit portion . Doesnt this exposure have any adverse effects on the acs ? When will IAF learn from the other airforces and follow suite by establishing hangars for each and evry of its Su-30 fleet ?

Is thei sun-shelters for MiG-29K at INS Hansa ?

MiG-29K doesnt have a very smooth finish when compared to Western jets ? The surfaces are a bit wavy.

Any good news onn IA's field artillery rationalistaion plan ?

Why makes our beloved Col think that F-35 is going to be cheaper than Rafale,MiG-35 when US DoD is repeatedly stating that JSF programe has entered into a seath spiral and asking member nations not to cut down their projected orders ?

I Sea Harriers indeed carried anti-ship missiles besides AAM.They could carry two BAE Sea- Eagle ashm and two matra. But Sea Eagle was decommisioned.

AK said...

It will be magic and not Matra.

Anonymous said...

Hi Please read this

What do you think.


rjdp said...

OMG just chk this airbase @ 24.244629,54.558651

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir, Where is EO suite in our Poseidon ? I dont see any optical turret in P-8I that has just landed at INS Rajali .In due course of timw will they be equipped with Boeing SLAM-ER ? Boeing video shows P-8A equipped with SLAM-ER.Will this P-8I be immediately pressed into operational service ? Is the avionics suite-radar,mad as advanced as Sea Dragon suite on IL-38 .

abs said...

1)Does the IA possess enough numbers of Laser target designators with thermal imaging to provide targetting cues for the laser guided projectiles? Something that could be effectively used for providing artillery support to the infantry in both the mountains and plains?
2)Are there any plans for equipping the existing choppers with the Hermes-A? What about LCH and Dhruv?

abs said...

3)When could we see the newly Sangam literature influenced paint that makes everything invisible to radar put into action? Are the signs encouraging?

Anonymous said...

Interesting development.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

Are the Indian Special Forces at par with the best in the world like SA and SEAL ? I read somewhere that SAS & SEAL have better communication , weapons than Indian Special Forces.


Mr. Ra 13 said...

@ 24.244629,54.558651, there are supposed to be stationed at least six F-22 Raptors. Is it OK.

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
1. Thank you very much for your depth analyses on Indo-China border issue. It is a sobering experience for many of your readers to slowly realise the ground realities. You advocate trade off between Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh as well as disbanding Tibetan Government and Parliament in exile, for permanent settlement of border issue. Your arguments are very convincing. Can you please guess what is the present thinking in PMO, MoD, NSA and Armed forces on these two vital points?
Will you please eloberate a bit on Pantsir-S-MKI?

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

From your commenst in the recent past, I see u have no hope for an econominc rebound. I do appreciate the frank analysis u think u have made but htink yolu have not taken both the scenarios that are likely in shaping up the economic future of this countries.One would be the case UPA come to power with aam aadmi jealous of entrepreneurs and the other of the BJP which is likely to unleash an economic boom with Na Mo at the helm with Private entities given the best welcome. This is likely to make this a truly ASIAN CENTURY

abs said...

Do you reckon the Indian moronic civillian masters would agree to force reductions in the draft Border defence Cooperation agreement given by the Chinese? It would be a huge blunder in my belief, cuz such reductions should and could only happen once the border is completely delineated. China with better equipped force and very good infrastructure could always overcome "reduced" troops on the Indian side in a lightning quick campaign in the future, something that is always a possibility(though perhaps not probability) in case the border is not officially delineated. I hope no such blunder is done by the Nehruvian ideology followers.

Vamshi Al said...

Consumption has hit hard due to inflation which the government blames on external factors beyond its control while it is due to corruption led mis-management across the board.

Investments hit hard again due to inflation, leading to high interest rates and more so, due to corrupt government officials delaying clearances.

Exports - again hit hard partly because of waning competitiveness of Indian exporters due to same reasons mentioned above

And most importantly, Government spending - Government has NO MONEY TO SPEND because of direct consequence of scams involving national assets like, coal, 2G scam etc.

Indeed there is NO HOPE for India until this corrupt government is kicked out.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AK: The LFATS/HELRAS combination is preferred for P-15A & P-15B DDGs. 11 BRD has already commenced work on upgrading MiG-29B-12s into MiG-29UPG standard at a targetted rate of 12 per annum. Su-30MKI mid-life upgrade will not be handled by 11 BRD. HAL is already doing it. Full-scale series-production of MIRES for Super Su-30MKI has yet to get underway. P-15 SLEP will begin by late 2014. Tu-142M is getting more expensive to maintain in airworthy condition with each passing year & so will be the case with IL-38SD within the next 5 years as none of the two aircraft have been in series-production since the late 1980s & consequently, spares availability is reducing by the year. Problem is not with gravity bombs, but with human resource training reqd for properly installing the fuzes on the bombs. TOR-M1 is pretty expensive when compared to the cost of procuring new-build missiles for existing OSA-AKM TELs. There’s no shortage of Barak-1 rounds. There never was. R-77 & R-27R can be re-lifed & retained in service for another 10 years with ease. There are no sun-shelters at any existing airport within TAR. There are no dedicated PLAAF air bases along the LAC. INS Hansa has enough new-build hangars for housing the MiG-29Ks.

To Anon@1.36PM: Read this:

To RJDP: That was on April 26, 2012. Vintage stuff.

To Anon@6.43PM: Check the visuals & posters that I’ve uploaded above. The same was said of the C-130J-30s when they landed in India without their optronic turrets & AAR probes.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: Portable laser designators developed by IRDE & made by BEL are now in series-production. The numbers will never be enough. Let’s see what type of ATGM is eventually acquired for Rudra & LCH. As of now, the PARS-3LR is the frontrunner. The Sangam literature does not deal with aviation-related technologies. Vimanikashastra does. Read this:

Regarding the BDCA, I don’t know where all this talk of force-level reductions or freezing of infrastructure is coming from. Perhaps only those who are against normalisation of China-India relations are spreading such rumours. I would much rather go by the official statements of China’s military officials on such matters & they’ve all spoken of only freezing existing military force-levels. Not one of them has either demanded force-level reductions or freezing of infrastructure development anywhere along the LAC. You want proof of this? Then do read this:

In this interview, China’s Defence Minister clearly states that: “At the same time, both sides need to strictly abide by the relevant agreements signed between the two countries, restrict its own border troop personnel, coordinate and handle various cases through diplomatic means and border meetings and talks, and not unilaterally expand area of activities and military deployment along the Line of Actual Control, so as to jointly maintain a stable situation in the border areas.”

Not even once is there any word about reductions of any kind anywhere. Consequently, only traitors or morons can claim that the BDCA proposal would effectively freeze border infrastructure at current levels, making China’s current advantage permanent. Even if military force-levels are frozen at their current levels, this will give a huge advantage to India since the Indian military deployments are all in the forward areas, while the PLA’s deployments are all concentrated within the hinterland in TAR, Lanzhou & Chengdu, as I had clearly explained two threads ago. So who has the upper hand if existing military force-levels are to be frozen?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: In terms of quality of personnel & personal weaponry/comms kits the MARCOS is on par with SEAL & SBS. But the MARCOS can only undertake tactical operations & not long-range strategic operations since the support capabilities of MARCOS for the latter cannot yet match those of the SEAL.

To SNTATA; It becomes a sobering experience simply because for decades deliberate lies have been sold to the Indian citizens both publicly & academically & therefore the present-day generations have developed a one-track mind & therefore prefer to stick to a world of self-denial for fear of confronting the truth & losing one’s mental equilibrium. At the other extreme, there’s no dearth of traitors within the country who try to sell other types of lies, such as this:

China will never be able to lay an legal claim to Arunachal Pradesh ever since His Holiness The Dalai Lama in 2011 stated that in his next rebirth he will be born in India & nor inside TAR, thereby effectively checkmating all probable Chinese claims over the Tawang Tract. As for what’s brewing within the corridors of power, do read this:

To Anon@1.32AM: To think of the BJP ushering in an era of economic boom is a discredited myth, especially if one is talking about the kind of 'boom' that the BJP had tried to unleash in Karnataka. Also, do take note of the fact that the industrial-scale smuggling of iron-ore meant for export to China from Bellary began during the BJP's tenure in Karnataka. And as for the so-called NaMo economic miracle, what people don’t realise is that present-day industrialisation in Gujarat has taken place only due to one reason: hassle-free availability of gas drawn from the Krishna-Godavari Basin by the RELIANCE Group, which has enabled Gujarat to provide assured electric supply for the industrial belts. Do you reckon all other Indian states too can avail of such assured power supplies? Therefore, do rest assured that the NaMo model cannot be replicated anywhere else outside Gujarat.


1.sir what platforms in iaf can counter f 35 and f22 as i c them falling in paf hands?not f22
2.what is aegis system do we have anything comparable?

Anonymous said...


some time back (some where near 2002 -2005) there was an incident which came into news. Its about a flying object which concealed in a bright light making huge noise flying over Beijing/Shanghai. The same flying object is noticed over Visakhapatnam's skies just the day after appearing the same way. It came in print media carrying a photo of the same. It seems like someone's holding a secret weapon of some kind... Any Idea regarding this?

Vivek said...

Prasun da
Its been a long wait, pl give us the most awaited concluding thread on India-China on what needs to be done in future
Also it would b great if u could post a series of master threads (very much like the beautiful indo-china threads) on india's current and future planned missiles (all missile types), their numbers, use etc

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You PrasunDa.

Another question that I have is about the performance of the IAF against the USAF in Cope India and Red Flag. Is it true that the IAF won the contests hands down every time ? The USAF as expected would have a far better network centric capability than the IAF . Also there was this video circulating in the Net made by some USAF officer who said that during the Red Flag exercises the IAF was beaten black & blue by the USAF .

As always would value your great insights .


AK said...

Hi Prasun, When talking about AGM and standoff weapons, I was referring to offensive capabilties of IAF .

Why cant IAF gradually build up its standoff air to ground PGM stocks ?

Why does IAF and IN keep on ordering outdated 2nd gen LDP like Litening -2 when 3 and g4 versions are avialable.

Why go for ordinary LGB like Griffin in today's era ? IAF and IN can ask IAI to come up with a glide wing kit for Griffin for 50
+ km range and enhance it by incorprating inertial navigation. Laser designation is weather dependent. Why not go for all weather standoff PGM like AASM, Spice-1000,2000 kits,MSOW ? They are cheaper than AGM and also gives a good standoff range keeping the host ac well outside modern MR-SAM engagement envelopes.

Dont you think there is a need of building up its ALCM and standoff missile stocks - Kh-59ME,MK2 ; Kh-31A for its Su-30 inventory ?

In the near future will Bazalt standoff bombs, standoff cluster bombs with homing anti tank submunitions?

Uptill when will IAF continue to use dumb iron bombs?. Rampant use of these bombs without any standoff range were made during vayu Shakti 2013 firepower demonstration. Will IAF also resort to such antiquated bombs during actual war scenarios ??

Does IAF plan to conduct test firings of its Pechora SAM from PXE to test its effectiveness and reliabilty. If IAF's ammo storing and handling practises are faulty with regard to OSA-AKM rounds, what guarantess are theres that such faulty practises are also employed for its various AAM inventories ?

Does IAF conduct periodic test firings of its Russia origin AAM - R-72, R-27, R-77 to test their operational status ?

Did you learn anything new about the tender for 24 MRH for IN DDG in which SH-92 is competing against AW-101.

How does our Kilos comapre to Kilos of SE nations like PRC, VN ?

What and in what nos AAM , AGM were ordered from Russia as part of MiG-29UPG upgrade contract or supplemental contracts?

How many 29s have been upgraded till date by 11 BRD ? Isnt 11 BRD and HAL Ozhar co-located in the same complex ?

In those IAF bases which house Su-30mki squadrons,have individual hangars,sun shelters,hardened aircraft shelters come up or do they still continue to bask in the sun and are exposed to rain ?

the last batch of 57 Mi-17v5 that were ordered , are they the latest Mi-17 variant which is termes Mi-17V1A by Mil and incorprtaes VK-25003 engines, composite rotor blades,X-shaped tail rotors and other enhancements and is scheduled to enter series production from 2014 .

Those Mi-17v5 tasked with air-maintenance duties along LAC and LoC , do they ccarry chin mounted flir to help the pilot in navigating the treacharous terrain during white-out conditions ?

When will series production contract of MIRES aesa be signed ? Does Russia possess the required industrial base for churning out large quantities of semi-conductor based electronics,TR modules of optimum quality as only Istok JSC produces TR modules.

Are the plans for upgrading IA T-90M to AM standards as you have outlined in a 2011 thread permanently shelved . There has been no news about this for quite a long time .

How is the air worthiness certification of Tejas mk1 going ? Has ADA,HAL able to sort out the various problems of Tejas which the end user IAF wants fixed ?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

The geographically isolated population density of Tibbat in overall terms is so far away from China and so nearer to India, that if it is not a part of India, then Tibbat can not be a part of China as well. If it is still with China, then it is unfortunately a colony. As such contemporatily no more relations than a temporary d├ętente can be maintained with the Red Dragon China.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: It's all available at:

KSingh said...


We have discussed this in the past and I had thought that what you has said about the remaining 8 AW-101s being delivered and the MoD takin AW to court for arbitration would come through without any blacklisting.

Now it seems it's all fucked and AW are set to be blacklisted before the Italian courts are finished and before the CBI has finished their probe:

Once again this is stupid as to save face and look tough in corruption Saint Antony is jumping the gun-just like he did by suspending all future deliveres of the AW-101- without waiting for a credible conclusion to the investigations.

The blacklisting of AW is going to fick a lot of ongoing procurements up especially for the IN they have 2-3 ongoing contracts that involve AW IIRC now these will be put into long term storage as the SAINT refuses to use his discretion or go out on a limb to serve the Indian military.

It's all gone to shit.

rad said...

Hi Prasun
I dont understand why we have gone in for the ukrainian ew suite in the mig-29 k for the navy , how can they be better than the western ones, and what stops them from selling it to pak or china as they have done before.
I understand the latest version of the Pantsyr is deadly and is the most effective shorads out to 20 km with PESA etc is it too expensive? Do we need it ,can it be an effective cruise missile defense . What is the best cruise missile defense that we can have given our constraints.Do we need aerostats that owuld be shot down at the begining of a war?

KSingh said...

+ Prasun,

Will these SPB FIC be used for coastal defence/patrolling duties? I was under the impression the SPB didn't have such a remit and were an offensive unit by nature.

abs said...

Very Many Thnaks.
1)Going by what the Chinese Defence minister has said, I reckon IA could still raise its planned MSC and integrated armoured brigades. However with a "freezing" of troops levels along the LAC, India should necessarily on a war footing develop all the required infrastructure especially the last mile linkages. In this regard, all your recommendations should be adopted including encouraging tibetan refugees to settle permanently.
2)I also believe that like the Air Mobile Division even the MSC should be made "omni directional",atleast on paper, in the overall spirits of the DBCA.
3)Any plans of having or developing IBG kind of strike groups along the LAC to cater to a future Chinese mischief along the border in minimum possible time. This would go a long way into establishing a conventional deterrent along the LAC sectors, just like what India enjoys vis-a-vis Pakistan.

Parthvader said...

Prasun, The MARCOS is analogous to the British Royal Marine Commando. So basically not special forces, more like elite amphibious infantry. SBS and SEAL have less than 200 and 500 operators each while MARCOS have more than 6000, more towards the size of Royal Marine Commando and USMC (proportional to the overall navy size of course, both US and UK have a much larger and as large navy respectively.)

Parthvader said...


Speaking of SBS and SEALs, what is the progress on the indian joint special forces command? Will it be headed by a Brigadier, Maj Gen or Lt Gen? Can we hope to see an Indian SAS/Delta type regiment in the future?

Parthvader said...


Speaking of SBS and SEALs, what is the progress on the indian joint special forces command? Will it be headed by a Brigadier, Maj Gen or Lt Gen? Can we hope to see an Indian SAS/Delta type regiment in the future?

Sayan said...

Sir, Rs 8K-crore plan for upgrading ICVs of Army. Under this upgrade, will the protection levels of BMP-2 be enhanced through application of addon composite armour plates,era blocks,busk armour.

Will the BMP receive new build turrets designed by Alpha technologies?

Is HVF Avadi engaged in overhauling army T-72 ? What is the condition of the 3rd of T-72 tanks which are unoperational due to lack of overhaul ?

What is the status of Tejas SP series of acs ? What approach is now being adopted by ADA and HAL to iron out Tejas technical problems,AoA deficiencies,high altitude takeoff ? Is ADA rewriting the FBW control laws again for Tejas to be able to carry 1000lb bombs ? Will Tejas emerge as a mature product by the end of 2013 ?

Is there any refinements going on Prahaar ? There isnt any news about it for a pretty long time.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KSINGH: This story is at least 3 months old & says nothing new. Publishing old stuff under a new dateline doesn’t make things appear brand-new. All this is mere posturing & that’s why the three AW-101s already delivered can still be seen flying daily conversion sorties even till this day. What has to be recalled is that in mid-1987 when the then COAS Gen K Sundarji had advised the then PM Rajiv Gandhi to cancel the Bofors FH-77B contract in order to force Bofors to reveal the identities of those middlemen who had received commissions, it was the PM who had then overruled this advice by giving the excuse that cancellation of the contract will give an extremely bad reputation to India. Therefore, having set such a precedent, the Govt of India is most unlikely to threaten AgustaWestland with contract cancellation—a step that is legally untenable in any case as of now & still if such a step is taken, it will only reduce India to an international embarrassment.
Nor will this on-going tiff in any way adversely affect the IN’s on-going competitive bidding processes, since there are multiple bidders in such competitions & the absence of one will hardly make any difference.
Regarding SPB, its sanctioned strength is 15,000 & therefore it will be a future naval infantry force with both offensive & defensive capabilities. Therefore, FICs of varying types are reqd. But my photo shows those FICs that are used by both SPB & MARCOS. There are three different types—not just one—of FICs being procured from Solas Marine Lanka.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: All the R-27 family of BVRAAMs too come from Ukraine. The VK-2500 engines for IAF Mi-17V-5s too have come from Ukraine’s Motor Sich. So what’s the big deal? Even China has been procuring all these from Ukraine. Has procurement of Su-30MKIs for the IAF prevented Russia from selling Su-30MK2s to China? Pantsyr SPAAG was originally developed for protecting static installations in built-up areas. It was never touted as being an all-terrain air-defence system. The 2S2 Tunguska-M1 on the other hand is a far more versatile system whose mobility characteristics are totally compatible with those for armoured/mechanised formations while engaging in manoeuvre warfare. The Tunguska can fire the same type of E-SHORADS missiles as the Pantsyr & can be used for battlefield CMD as well. Aerostats are best employed for base air-defence & as they’re located deep inside friendly territory, they’re not vulnerable to BVRAAMs.

To ABS: The IA’s strike corps HQ for the eastern theatre is already being raised at Panagarh. The proposed airmobile division should be trained & equipped (with armoured ATVs armed with ATGMs, tactical UAVs, manportable ATGMs, land-mobile & air-mobile LORROS sensors & ATV-mounted 120mm breech-loading mortars) for fighting in all types of terrain, while being omni-directional as well. It should also incorporate a heliborne air-assault brigade with its integral 155mm heliborne LW-155 field artillery assets.

PARTHVADER: MARCOS’ total manpower strength is less than 1,000. It is the SPB that is now being trained & equipped as a specialised naval infantry force with a sanctioned strength of 15,000.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SAYAN: Yes, the BMP-2 ICVs will be comprehensively upgraded. HVF Avadi is not overhauling or upgrading any T-72s. That contract will be handed out to a private party. Tejas Mk1 will mature by next year PROVIDED the IAF drops the 1,000lb LGBs in favour of much lighter PGMs that are available from the US, France & Israel. The existing offensive weapons configuration of Tejas Mk1 was frozen in the mid-1990s & is no longer viable, since much better options are available today.

AK said...

Hi Prasun, Can you pls ans my questions. I have been patiently waiting for your replies.You havnt ansd them these ques in the previous threads. Will you pls post your thread on ISTAR challenges of IAF and whats required to be done .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AK: All those queries were raised & answered several times before in successive threads starting from April 2012.

KSingh said...


VMT for your replies sir- put my mind at ease somewhat.

A few more Qs:

1) what exactly happened to the Indo-Israeli project to convert the ALH into a UAS system- I know the NRUAV project to turn a Chetak into such a system failed but what about efforts to do so on the ALH which should be easier as it is pretty much an all digitial machine.

2) What is going on with the FICV project? When will the first vehicle enter Indian army service?

3) Will the IN go for an order for FireScout UAS?

4) how many P-8Is do you see the IN operating in the long-term? According to some the IN and Boeing project orders for atleast 24-30 units for the IN eventually.

5) What is going on with the N-MRH deal? Nothing has come out about a winner or anything and a descions was expected by the end of 2012! No winner has been announced and not even contract negotiations have begun as a result so the deal is nowhere near being signed.

6) there seems to be a lot of flip flopping on the 197 LUH deal, will it be cancelled totally or will some one make a effing decision at the MoD and go for the deal? Or is it going to be a case of 380+ HAL LUHs?

7) are there any plans to turn out a variant of the LCA to act as a supersonic LIFT? This now seems to be the final gaping whole in the IAF's training curriculum.

8) do you find the likes of Shiv Aroor as ill-informed, sensarionlist and ignorant on defence matters as I do?

KSingh said...

+ 9) will the IN be procuring any hovercraft LCACs for their SPB force to operate from their soon to be procured LHD/LPD?

Anonymous said...

Prasun da,
ur views pls...thanks,

AK said...

Hi Prasun, Few things you have overlooked.

Why cant IAF gradually build up its standoff air to ground PGM stocks ?

Why does IAF and IN keep on ordering outdated 2nd gen LDP like Litening -2 when 3 and g4 versions are avialable which offer better resolution and standoff ranges.

Is the OFB produced dumb iron bombs which comes in various sizes of 500lb,1000lb the main workhorse of IAF air to ground arsenal?Rampant use of these bombs without any standoff range were made during vayu Shakti 2013 firepower demonstration. Will IAF also resort to such antiquated bombs during actual war scenarios ?

What do you think will be the future of prahaar ? Is IA seriously not intersted in it as reported by the desi media ?Will the production variant of Praharr have a 250 km range and IMI EXTRA warhead ? Will you pls elaborate as to what changes are required in Brahmos , Prahaar and how should they be operationally deployed to make them truly effective NLOS-BSM ?

Why go for ordinary LGB like Griffin in today's era ? IAF and IN can ask IAI to come up with a glide wing kit for Griffin for 50
+ km range and enhance it by incorprating inertial navigation. Laser designation is weather dependent. Why not go for all weather standoff PGM like AASM, Spice-1000,2000 kits,MSOW ? They are cheaper than AGM and also gives a good standoff range keeping the host ac well outside modern MR-SAM engagement envelopes.

Why hasnt IAF carried out any simulated strikes against HVT with standoff cruise missiles from Su-30mki,Mirage 2000 acs ? I havent come across any pic of Sukhoi armed with 2 or 4 Kh-59 ground attack cruise missiles or other similar missiles. All I have come across are pics of Su carrying out raids against enemy POLs,supply depots with dumb iron bombs ?

All those pics of Jaguar DARIN 2 in all IAF exercises and fire power demos show them equipped with either 500,1000lb retarder bombs or ordinary ones.

Will all these take a change towards better once Jaguar gets upgraded to DARIN3 standards ,Mirage to UPG stndards as these upgrades are to be accompanied with weapons deals.

You once said that HVT targets are destroyed with Griffin-3,LDP-2,Su-30 combo. These acs are accompanied with other acs carrying EL/M-8222 pods. But with the proliferation of advanced sam missile units,aaa, and PAF,PA's procurement of HQ-9,HQ-19 sams will complicate matters even further.

PAF airbases have advanced Rheinmetall AAA systems .Their plethora of SHORADs,AAA are more advanced and well organised compared to their Indian counterparts.A well planned and coordinated air strike using a mix of ARM, aircraft simulating drones,smart standoff 500,1000lb class PGM with ALCM are required to neutralise such threats.

Do you think IAF is pro-active about MMRCA deal ? Is GoI trying to postpone the deal to post 2014 or scrap it ? Once Rafales are inducted wouldnt the whole scenario of air-surface warfare conducted by IAF change?

Is there any JSOW type swept wing glide weapons under developement by MBDA. AASM doesnt quite fit into JSOW category as it is rocket propelled and boasts of a much shorter range at 55 km.

Regarding IAF specific customistaions of Rafale what are they besides -
1.20000lb uprated M88
2.RBE2AA AESA radar

Has IAF specified any reusabale fibre optic TRD decoy as standard fit for all Rafales ?

I have been hearing since january that Arihant PWR has gone critical and now it is gearing up for sea trials. A month ago the desi news media reported that in another 3 to 4 weeks Arihant will proceed to its sea trials.But days are going by and there is no sign of Arihant ?

AK said...

When will series production contract of MIRES aesa be signed ? Does Russia possess the required industrial base for churning out large quantities of semi-conductor based electronics,TR modules of optimum quality as only Istok JSC produces TR modules. So far only the developement contract has been signed.

Has Ukraine based Radionix also supplied Omut EW suite to PLAAF ? All Su-27,30 from Russia barring ours come equipped with internal RF jamme as standard fit. How come PLAAF ones dont have one ?

Anonymous said...

Hi.........You really had patience, reply to each query on your Blog !!

Was just doodling/imagination going wild.......IF good old Chidanbaram was to ask the Armed Forces Chiefs...their minimum essential requirements of Weapon Systems to be imported/signed this Financial........Would the List read like this ??

Air Force: Rafales; Apaches; more Spyders; Jaguar/Honeywell-DarinIII upgrade; Spice PGM's.......

Army: ULH M-777's; Javelin or Spike, more Spyder's (??)..........

Navy: MRHelicopters; P75I Submaries.............

Your reactions ?? (and, don't say "your guess as good as mine" !!!) We can't just stop upgrading/getting new systems etc...

Kimran Singh said...


Is it now an offical policy to have all new fixed wing inductions come with "slime-lights", I have noticed such a trend, the LCA has them, the IN's MIG-29Ks too, the M2K also and of course the C-130Js and C-17s too.

Is this a conicidence or an offical policy and by design?

abs said...

In a future offensive scenario, do you reckon that a large and unwieldy MSC with huge logistical footprints would be mobilised or something like that of IBGs would be used from the MSC? I think, if such large formations are used then the MSC would be extremely vulnerable to massed co-ordinated fire assaults of Chinese long range precision guided MBRLs and Artillery.

Unknown said...

dear prasun

whats your take on narendra modis style of administration. i have been to gujarat and found the road, canal etc infrastrucuture excellent and the best so far i have seen in any other state of india. no wonder why gujarat relects him time and again. what your opinion sir on him.

Arup said...

Sir, A variety of Russian jammer pods are avialable for MiG-29,Su-30 like MSP-418K which is similar to EL/L-8222 and MSP-410 OMUL. Why didnt IAF procure these pods for Su and other Russian acs and instead went for elta pods ?

The FGFA prototype which will be handed over to HAL next year will it have the same percentage of composites as PAK-FA ?The rear aspect stealth shaping of PAK-FA is inadequate for attaining a 0._ RCS . Will the LSP acs have more steath features,modified RCS shaping ?

How much has Russia progressed in the field of tri-mode seekers ? Are any analogues of Boeing SDB-2 in developement for PAK-FA ?

What is the best possible cruise missile defense that IAF can deploy with its current available resources for acheiving a good degree of protection from PA and PAF lacm,alcm in north west and the PLAAF and PA DH-10,C-802.. in the Northern and North eastern part of India ? Will Akash alone suffice ?

As it is taking quite some time to develope Akash mk 2 , is there any possibilty of mk2 having a huge perfomance improvement over Akash mk1 and having an active radar seeker. Similar sized Western sams like sm-1,2 have 100+ km range.

Are there enough holdings & reserves of all sorts of ammuntion for waging a one-front high intensity conventional war for 10 days ? Does IA have in service airburst rounds,latest anti tank rounds for its Carl Gustav recoiless rifles ? I checked OFB official website . They manufacture only the very basic rounds.

How are the Rudra trials going ? When is its series pro expected ?

How does Arihant class compare to Astute class and Akula class in terms of onboard IPM,sonars , mission management sensors and noise levels ? Is it having side array sonar and the advanced ESM suite of Akula 3 ?

Given the paucity of financial resources which deals do you expect to be signed this year? Can a major breakthrough be expected in Rafale deal in the coming months ?Upgradation of major military hardware across all the three armed services have come to a stand still. While MoD is releasing RFP and RFIs for a plethora of hardware it is not signing thr previous major deals.

The then outgoing COAS remarked in 2011 that BAE M777 ULH will be ordered by end of december , 2011. Well its 2013 and orders are still to be placed. There hasnt been a single new addition to IA artillery inventory since Bofors induction. IA's tube artillery capabilties are eroding with each passing year and MoD is not doing anything about it. After 2008 Mumbai attack, COAS has written to GoI that IA wasnt preapred for any hostilty and the main reason for it was the deplorable state of IA field artillery. Its 2013 and we are still evaluating various artillery systems.

What is the developement status of NAMAICA and Nag atgm ?

rad said...

hi prasun
why is the army shy of the prahar missile,? what are they gong to do against the plethora of nlos missiles with china.
what made the navy choose the ukrainian ew system for the mig-29 over the virgilius aesa ew of the airforce?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KSINGH: 1) The UAS version of a twin-engined ALH was a no-brainer from the very outset. No one else in the world has even contemplated such a ridiculous project. The only realistic project—which HAL has yet to consider—is to modify the airframe of the single-engined LUH as a VTOL UAS. 2) FICV project is in deep hibernation & there’s no more progress on it. 3) Most likely. 4) 20 at the very minimum. 5) Acute lack of funding for projects across-the-board for this fiscal year. Internal economic situation is extremely bad. 6) Of course it has been cancelled, the writing was there on the wall since 2009. Far better option is to re-engine the existing Cheetahs & Chetaks & upgrade them into Cheetal & Chetan LUHs. 7) There were no such plans. The IAF is terribly regressive when it comes to working out a functional flying training proficiency curriculum. Had the IAF adhered to universal norms & standards, then the cockpit procedures trainers & tactical flight simulators for Su-30MKios would have arrived in 2002 itself, instead of 2010! It is the absence of such vital training aids that led to the elementary human-errors responsible for the first 3 Su-30MKI crashes. 8) They’re frequently incapable of analysing events/developments & putting matters into perspective, for providing the context in relation to developments. 9) LPHs won’t be procured anytime soon & nor will the LCACs. But they will be procured in future. There’s acute lack of funding for projects across-the-board for this fiscal year. Internal economic situation is extremely bad.

To Anon@8.56AM: Utter baloney, to say the very least!

To AK: Prahaar NLOS-BSM will indeed be ordered but it will carry only conventional warheads. ARDE was working on glide-kits for various types of gravity bombs since 2004 but so far no progress has been registered. DEAD missions can always be launched by firing ARMs as well as ALCMs prior to exposing the Griffin-3 LGB-armed Su-30MKIs or Jaguar/DARIN-3s. Whenever any naval vessel goes for sea-trials in India, it is never recorded by the local press nor is any publicity given to such events. Radionix only makes internal EW suites for MiG-29s. Su-27s & Su-30s never require such fitments since they have wingtip-mounted Sorbitsaya EW pods.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@10.38AM: I can only say that your guess is as good as mine, precisely because I never let my imagination go wild, since it is an unproductive exercise. There’s acute lack of funding for projects across-the-board for this fiscal year. Internal economic situation is extremely bad. Most importantly, successive Govts of India have been a total failure when it comes to developing a network of lateral roads & railway tracks in the frontline states of Rajasthan, Gujarat, J & K, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim & Arunachal Pradesh. It is no use speculating about new hardware procurements like field artillery or NLOS-BSMs when a robust network of interconnected interior & exterior lines of communications does not exist. None of the advanced weapon systems you’ve mentioned can suddenly sprout wings to fly from their peacetime storage areas to their forward deployment launch sites. Therefore, first one has to get the basics right.

To KIMRAN SINGH: Those NVG-compatible luminous navigation lights are standard fit whenever one is engaging in formation-flying at nighttime. The PLA’s S-70 Black Hawks had them (mounted on main rotor-blade tips & sourced from Israel) as far back as 1986 when they were used for heliborne logistics during the Sumdorong Chu crisis.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: Not at all. All the 10 probable offensive strike options wargamed by the Indian Army for the northeastern theatre of operations involve only limited-in-depth advances of no more than 40km at the very best by just two infantry brigades backed up by an armoured brigade & that too only in the Dolam Plateau off eastern Sikkim. The only way to neutralise the PLA 2nd Artillery Corps’ massed fire-assault superiority in MBRLs & NLOS-BSMs is for the IA to acquire a sizeable inventory of 600km-range solid-fuelled & cannisterised Prithvi-3 NLOS-BSMs & BrahMos-1 Block-3 NLOS-BSMs, while the IAF needs to acquire 700km-range Nirbhay ALCMs armed with sensor-fuzed cluster munitions. Lastly, at least 200 LW-155 airmobile howitzers along with at least 30 CH-47F Chinooks & 56 STOL transports like the C-130Js need to be procured for rapid deployment purposes at short notice & a network of rear-area helicopter bases & ALGs in Sikkim, Ladakh, Uttarakhand, Himachal Pradesh and Arunachal Pradesh need to be built--all to ensure swift border domination, since successive Govts of India have been a total failure when it comes to developing a network of lateral roads & railway tracks in all the above-mentioned frontline states & I don’t expect any future govt to fare any more better in this area.

To UNKNOWN: It all depends on which part of Gujarat you’ve been to. I can vector you towards several rural areas in WB, for example, where the roads are as good as any other rural area in Gujarat. But try visiting the border areas of Gujarat to see what’s the condition there. Of course under Narendra Modi several innovative schemes have been introduced, such the increased usage of solar power generation, e-governance by a small team of Cabinet Ministers & a transparent & verifiable methodology of collecting elections-related funds from private citizens. But can such schemes be implemented across-the-board in all other Indian states? Definitely not, given the ground realities in an era of coalition politics.

To RAD: No one from the IA has ever said that the IA is shy of the Prahaar NLOS-BSM. But the fact remains that the IA cannot acquire the Prahaar, Prithvi-3 or BrahMos-1 Block-3 unless & until a network of lateral roads & railway tracks in Sikkim, Ladakh, Uttarakhand, Himachal Pradesh and Arunachal Pradesh come up. None of the advanced weapon systems mentioned above can suddenly sprout wings to fly from their peacetime storage areas to their forward deployment launch sites. Therefore, first one has to get the basics right. The OMUT was selected in early 2004—at that time the ELT-568 Virgilius was not on offer for retrofit on the MiG-29. ELT-568 Virgilius was cleared for the MiG-29 in only 2007.

Arup said...

Sir, A variety of Russian jammer pods are avialable for MiG-29,Su-30 like MSP-418K which is similar to EL/L-8222 and MSP-410 OMUL. Why didnt IAF procure these pods for Su and other Russian acs and instead went for elta pods ?

The FGFA prototype which will be handed over to HAL next year will it have the same percentage of composites as PAK-FA ?The rear aspect stealth shaping of PAK-FA is inadequate for attaining a 0._ RCS . Will the LSP acs have more steath features,modified RCS shaping ?

How much has Russia progressed in the field of tri-mode seekers ? Are any analogues of Boeing SDB-2 in developement for PAK-FA ?

What is the best possible cruise missile defense that IAF can deploy with its current available resources for acheiving a good degree of protection from PA and PAF lacm,alcm in north west and the PLAAF and PA DH-10,C-802.. in the Northern and North eastern part of India ? Will Akash alone suffice ?

As it is taking quite some time to develope Akash mk 2 , is there any possibilty of mk2 having a huge perfomance improvement over Akash mk1 and having an active radar seeker. Similar sized Western sams like sm-1,2 have 100+ km range.

Are there enough holdings & reserves of all sorts of ammuntion for waging a one-front high intensity conventional war for 10 days ? Does IA have in service airburst rounds,latest anti tank rounds for its Carl Gustav recoiless rifles ? I checked OFB official website . They manufacture only the very basic rounds.

How are the Rudra trials going ? When is its series pro expected ?

How does Arihant class compare to Astute class and Akula class in terms of onboard IPM,sonars , mission management sensors and noise levels ? Is it having side array sonar and the advanced ESM suite of Akula 3 ?

Given the paucity of financial resources which deals do you expect to be signed this year? Can a major breakthrough be expected in Rafale deal in the coming months ?Upgradation of major military hardware across all the three armed services have come to a stand still. While MoD is releasing RFP and RFIs for a plethora of hardware it is not signing thr previous major deals.

The then outgoing COAS remarked in 2011 that BAE M777 ULH will be ordered by end of december , 2011. Well its 2013 and orders are still to be placed. There hasnt been a single new addition to IA artillery inventory since Bofors induction. IA's tube artillery capabilties are eroding with each passing year and MoD is not doing anything about it. After 2008 Mumbai attack, COAS has written to GoI that IA wasnt preapred for any hostilty and the main reason for it was the deplorable state of IA field artillery. Its 2013 and we are still evaluating various artillery systems.

What is the developement status of NAMAICA and Nag atgm ?

Anonymous said...


I am an economist by profession and work for a very large UK-based finance institute. I have extensive experience in govt (UK govt that is) and have worked in India for a total of 3 years in the past 7. I have to say whilst this financial year and especially the financial year just ended (2012-13) were/are particularly poor for India but one must say, that in my professional and personal opinion anyway, that the horizon is looking pretty rosy for India right now and it is merely experiencing a horrible 24 months as the entire world is.

The Indian govt has made it clear that within 18 months subsides on fuel will be gone and they will bring the fiscal deficit to below 4.7%.

I see no reason why the FYs of 2014-15 and beyond will not be very bright and productive for India especially on the defence procurement front. India just has to get through the next 10-12 months and it will be okay in the long-run.

There is no need for excessive pessimism where India is concerned especially relative to the likes of the Eurozone.

Kind Regards,


ArunM said...

Sir, Which is a better ciws Palma or Kashtan ? What ciws will batch 3 of Talwar class have ?

Panstyr uses a very mobile all terrain capable platform . Panstyr is not only meant for protecting ststic targets but also forces on the move. It is the successor to Tungunska M1.

Cant a land based version of Kashtan or Panstyr used as a potent c-ram system. Modules of Kashtan can be placed at various points in an airbase and around hangars,ordance depot. It can provide protection from cruise missile and glide bomb threats. It can aso provide protection against artillery shells much like Phalanx.

As Rheinmetall has been blacklisted, what is the best substitute of Skyranger mobile AAA C-RAM system. Will IA go forward with the procurement of AAA in these category as was earlier envisaged.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@12.42AM: I’m afraid your sense of optimism isn’t shared by India’s business community. Controlling the fiscal deficit is only 1/10th of the problem. There are several more subsidies that continue to pose a drain on an economy that is already overburdened with a crumbling infrastructure & extremely poor legislations by the govt’s executive branch, such as the retroactive taxation scheme after the Vodafone verdict. It takes an average of at least five years to undo the wrong done by such regressive legislations & I therefore see no reason why things should look rozy just after a year or even three. Just ask the TATAs & Arcelor Mittals, etc & I’m sure they will all concur with me. Failure to be pro-active when it comes to enacting industry-friendly legislation exact a heavy price as everyone knows since 1997. Consequently, to harbor any hopes of springing a spectacular bounceback in 12 or 24 months tantamounts to living in utopia.

To ARUNM: Only CIWS will be the AK-630Ms. If the Pantsyr or C-RAM were indeed that good, then how come they’re not being ordered in large numbers by Russia & the NATO member-states? The fact remains that all their capabilities you’ve listed remain just marketing points on paper. Proof of the pudding lies in its eating. Let Russia then first order the Pantsyr in large numbers & then the rest of the world can follow in Russia’s footsteps. The only other viable substitute for the Skyranger remains the upgraded (by BEL & IAI/ELTA) ZSU-23-4 Schilka, which is an extremely potent land-mobile battlefield air-defence system. What India ought to do is buy over at least 100 of them that are available at bargain-basement prices & upgrade them like the 48 existing ZSU-23-4s of the IA.

Joker said...


Can you outline how many Arjuns the IA has ordered to date:

MK.1- X number

MK.1A- X number

MK.2- X number

And then how many Arjuns (in all its forms) will the IA be operating eventually- in a decade or so?


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOKER: Do read this:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Interesting reads:

rad said...

hi prasun
Now there is a report that china is marketing its beidou gps to india for fisher folk to call in distress.!It shows that some kind of sms system has been built in. My inference is that it has a transponder like the iridium cell phone stuff also onboard. We can also and must follow the principle.
It seems that the gsat has a space based infrared camera to pick up missle launches like the SBIRS of the uS, that is great!. it also seems to have a 1 meter camera as well. Please elucidate

Anonymous said...

Sir, I have a few queries.

1.I am very sorry to bring up the topic again but pls clarify.OLS-30 suite is capable of providing raster scan imagery of the terrain below for navigation during whiteout conditions and zero visibilty as you have earlier said. This imagery is displayed in HDD & in HMDS which is Surya and helps the pilot to pilot the jet under all visibilty conditions. IAF sukhoi and RMAF sukhoi have the exact same OLS suit and HMDS.then why do the Malaysian sukhois need to cary thales NAVFLIR for low level terrain masking flight at night and flight under very low visibilty. WHY IS THIS ?

2.While going through the IAF Flight Magazine issues, I found outduring the winter months in north east part due to thick haze and the poor visibilty conditions prevailing at that time flying comes to a standstill for MiG-27 squadrons. If there is any contigencies how will the Mig-27 carry out operations if such poor weather conditions prevail and if it is winter

3.The four sukhoi-30 squadrons that are based in north east ,arent they all weather flight capable and their flight operations are independent of visibility conditions as the pilot receives flir inputs of the terrain forward both during day and night . Am i right?

4. As part of Mirage 2000 upgrade will they be getting Rafale FSO suite ? If not will they be receiving NAVFLIR to aid in nav ? NAVFLIR doesnt take up a hardpoint unlike LDP. Its imagery can be displayed in Thales Topsight HMDS of Mirage 2000 thus greatly enhancing situational awareness of the aircrew ?

5.Where are engine repairs performed ? If some cracks appear in the turbine blades,compressors,if the stator assembly gets damaged, are the repairs perormed at the home base itself ?

6.How are corrosion related damages to the ac skin,load bearing structures handled ? If some portion of the aircraft skin has corroded, how is it repaired ?

7.ISRO has been tasked with developing special sensor payloads for GSAT series of satellites.Ther are being tasked with an additional missile launch survellience role. Does ISRO,DRDO possess the required expertise in the field of lenses,thermal imagers to develope such a product ? Is any othet foreign agency involved in R&D of the required payloads ?

Pls ans them.

neeraj bais said...

sir which is better mig 29up and su 30 mki and how j17 ,j10 and tejas
comparatively fare with each other which among the 3 is best.and is rafale better than eurofighter.

neeraj bais said...

sir which is better mig 29up and su 30 mki and how j17 ,j10 and tejas
comparatively fare with each other which among the 3 is best.and is rafale better than eurofighter

Joker said...


I've read through the above blog entry. A few Qs:

1) why is it I have not heard about the MK.1A from anyone else and especially the so-called Indian defence journalists?

2) would it be fair to say that most people are under the assumption the Mk.1A is in fact the full fledged Mk.2?

3) you say the second batch if 70 Mk.1A will come with all 93 improvements over the Mk.1 with the first batch of 56 MK.1As coming with 56 of them- is a more powerful 1,500 HP engine not one if these 93 improvements then?

4) if the MK.1A is set to roll out in 2015 with deliveres finishing in 2019 and,as you have stated, the Mk.2 will roll out in 2017- does this mean the MK.1A and Mk.2 will be produced by HVF at the same time?

5) are HVF going to increase their production capacity of 30 MBTs per annum to a higher number? This figure clearly isn't enoguh in the long run when the IA Has ordered Mk.1As, Mk.2s, BLTs, CMFs etc

6) given this timeline when will the MK.3 emerge?

7) how many Mk.3s do the IA plan on operating eventually?

8) is the relvent infrastructure now being set up for the Arjun family then ie logistics, transport, maintence, training etc?

9) when will the first batch of T-90S receive their MLU?

10) any updates on the TANK-EX front?

Vmt Prasun sir.

KSingh said...


I don't know if you've seen this video:

the navy's new MiG-29K Simulator Facility:

Are such trainers being given to IAF MKI SQDs yet? And will such trainers be procured for the Mirage 2000UPGs?

Such trainers are coming with the Rafale, FGFA and C-17 right?

Anand said...

Hi Prasun,

The G-Sat series referred here is it the dedicated G-sat for IAF/IN/IA or is it only for early warning for incoming ballistic missiles.ISRO and DRDO seem to be jointly involved in this project.



ArunM said...

Sir, Russia is unable to order Pantsyr in large nos due its poor economic resources. Russian armed forces have far higher priority procurements to make.

Pantsyr uses a 17 km range beam riding missile. pantsyr has been field tested against low RCS ALCM like AGM-86 and terrain hugging cruise missiles.

Rheinmetall skyranger,skyshield are very capable C-RAM systems. NBS Mantis was field tested in Afghanistan . It can really intercept mortar rounds. So it will be effective against glide bombs,alcm,arm. oerlikon claims that Skyshield will be able to protect itself from arm. Ahead 35 mm ammo makes this system all the more effective. MoD ought to unblacklist Rheinmetall. then IA can lay its hands on such a world class system.

Upgraded Shilika can only intercept low flying helicopters and acs and not cruise missiles,glide bombs and arms.

What is the sensor payload of Navy Dorniers ?

After the initial 22 AH-64E and 12 CH-47 are there firm plans of acquiring more of them ?

Isnt AAC to get 20 production stndard Rudra gunships this year ?

just like most US and European military acs are subjcted to block enhancements like Apache block 3 doest HAL apply subject Su-30mki to similar block enhancements ? Can you give a few examples of improvements incorporated in mki by HAL.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: In maritime parlance a distress call means sending an SOS signal through a shipborne transponder, and not voice communications. This facility is available worldwide via INMARSAT. It is not SMS at all. Once the SOS signal is transmitted from the ship to the overhead satellite, the satellite bounces the signal back to a shore-based facility with embedded GPS coordinates of the origin of the transmitted signal. The same facility is also available to aircraft when they’re about to crash or have already crashed. This is known as the COSPAS/SARSAT system. In fact, this system is so good that one can continuously track in real-time the flight-path of the aircraft & one therefore does not need ATC radars at all, especially over inhospitable terrain. A COSPAS-SARSAT transponder costs less than US$10,000. It is only the stupid agencies like Pawan Hans & other Indian private aircraft/helicopter charter operators that do not have the brains to install such kits & therefore everytime an aircraft crashes due to bad weather in the jungles or mountains, weeks are spent to trace the wreckage site. If only such transponders are installed, the search-and-rescue effort will be tremendously easier.
Regarding GSAT-7, I was the first to upload its photo at & if you look at the photo (, you will clearly see a yellowish tubular structure on top of the satellite. That structure is actually a multi-spectral IR/UV optronic sensor used for missile launch detection during both the boost & post-boost phases. The sensor is of Japanese origin. And it does not have any camera offering 1-metre resolution photo-imagery since such cameras are totally useless for missile launch detection (something which the dumb-arse ‘desi’ press reporters will never be able to fathom!) A total of four such GSATs together will constitute the space-based ‘Missile Monitoring System’, which will be operated & controlled by the IAF’s Aerospace Command & its clients will include the three armed services as well as the tri-service commands like the SFC.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@1.01PM: 1) OLS-30 or any other IRST sensor never provides raster-scan imagery. Raster-scan is not about imagery at all, but about symbology. IRST sensors provide only IR imagery that can be shown either on HDD or on HMDS but not on all types of HMDS. The Russians have not yet come up with any HMDS capable of displaying visual imagery. The SURA-M can display only raster-scan symbology, while the TopOwl & Dash Mk5 can display both symbology & imagery. THALES-built NAVFLIR is for terrain-hugging flights, not terrain-masking flights. Terrain-masking can be done even at high altitudes thousands of feet above sea-level if the valleys are located at higher altitudes like those along the LAC. Terrain-hugging flights are done only over flat featureless terrain or over jungles & forested areas devoid of mountain ranges. 2) During bad-weather conditions, it is impossible to launch any kind of combat sortie. If you suffer from one lightning strike you will go kaput. 3) No combat aircraft in the world is all-weather capable. Mother Nature still reigns supreme. Day/night-capable is not the same as all-weather capable. 4) No FSO IRST sensor for Mirage 2000UPG. 6) In the same way as such tasks are done for automobiles or ships. 7) The optronic payload has been outsourced from Japan.

To NEERAJ BAIS: They’re all good. What makes the difference is the quality of aircrew proficiency.

To JOKER: All the data you need is clearly mentioned in the DRDO’s commemorative book on the Arjun MBT programme. 1,500hp powerpack was never meant for Arjun Mk1. Between 2017 & 2020 the Mk1As & Mk2s will undergo concurrent series-production. HVF will have to increase its annual production capacities. There’s no other choice. Arjun Mk3’s prototype should emerge by 2020. At least 1,000 Mk3s are projected for procurement.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KSINGH: I had uploaded its photos way back in October 2008 in my earlier blog at
Such tactical flight simulators have always been procured whenever aircraft of Western origin were ordered for the IAF or IN, like Jaguar IS, Mirage 2000H/TH, Sea Harrier, & Sea King & in future the Rafale. The USSR & Russia NEVER used such flight-training aids & therefore there was never & are no such simulators available for Ka-25, Ka-28, Ka-31, Tu-142M, IL-38SD, Mi-8T, Mi-171, MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27UPG, MiG-29UPG, An-32RE, IL-76MD, IL-78MKI & Su-30MKI. For the Su-30MKI, only fixed-base cockpit procedure trainers (CPT) have been procured from Russia & that too since 2009. Similar CPTs are on order for MiG-29UPG & Mi-17V-5. For the AW-101, P-8I, C-17A & C-130H-30, flight simulators & CPTs are on order. In fact, it is unthinkable to procure aircraft of Western origin without their flight simulators & CPTs. They come together as a package. Only with the damn Russians are such flight training aids considered a luxury & hence the high incidence of air crashes involving aircraft of Soviet/Russian origin. It remains to be seen if such flight training aids will be developed by Russia for the FGFA & IL-214 MRTA. Even in India, ADA has so far miserably failed to develop such simulators for the Tejas Mk1 & the IAF is totally pissed off with ADA due to this critical failure.

To ANAND: Regarding GSAT-7, I was the first to upload its photo at & if you look at the photo (, you will clearly see a yellowish tubular structure on top of the satellite. That structure is actually a multi-spectral IR/UV optronic sensor used for missile launch detection during both the boost & post-boost phases. The sensor is of Japanese origin. And it does not have any camera offering 1-metre resolution photo-imagery since such cameras are totally useless for missile launch detection (something which the dumb-arse ‘desi’ press reporters will never be able to fathom!) A total of four such GSATs together will constitute the space-based ‘Missile Monitoring System’, which will be operated & controlled by the IAF’s Aerospace Command & its clients will include the three armed services as well as the tri-service commands like the SFC.

To ARUNM: Russia has enough economic resources as it exports vast amounts of its hydrocarbons-based products like crude oil & natural gas. It’s main problem is its declining population. It is impossible to intercept glide-bombs or ARMs with existing kinetic-energy weapons. No self-defence system can neutralise a saturation strike by multiple glide-bombs or ARMs or loitering anti-radar drones. Only directed-energy weapons can. Su-30MKI has already undergone 3 separate block enhancements so far, all dealing with fire-control software.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da,

Any idea how the BMP 2 upgradation is making progress ?

Is it safe to say that after the upgradation the BMP 2 will be at par with the BMP 3 ?

Russia is already fine tuning it's Kurganet IFV program . So does it not make sense for INDIA to enter into a JV with Russia to purchase the Kurganet ?

Many thanks,

Anonymous said...

Sir, VMT. A few more queries.

1.Why does RMAF sukhoi-30 carry NAVFLIR when OLS-30 provides IR imagery of forward terrain in the same manner as FSO,Pirate to aid in navigation?

2.I had confused all weather capable with day,night capable? In NE , MiG-27 were unable to undertake sorties in winter due to thick fog,haze , zero visibilty whiteout conditions. Can Su-30 undertake sorties in such zero visibilty,whiteout conditions as flir imagery is displayed in HDD to help pilot with navigation.

3.Will each Mirage 2000 UPG get NAVFLIR sensors to compensate for FSO and for navigation?

4.In those Mi-8,17 tasked with air maintenance duties in areas having poor visibity do they have flir sensors .

5. Why hasnt ISRO or DRDO disclose such info about GSAT earlier ?

6. Why did all of a sudden Japan provided us with such an optronic payload? Why didnt such a payload sourced from Israel IAI,Rafale ?

7. Does this mean that MoD has firm plans of deploying BMD phase 1 in 2014 by which time some GSAT-7 satellites will be operational.

8.Pls give a headsup before you attend MAKS 2013. I have a lot of questions and lots of things to know ? You can get them from the various OEMs if your time permits.

KSingh said...


In that case, is there no full mission simulator for the IAF's A-50 PHALCONS? Or have they been delivered by the Israelis?

And if only CPT have been procured for the MKIs is there not a glaring need for full system/mission flight simulators and is the IAF taking any steps to procure full mission/flight simulators for their front line fighter that is the cutting edge of their fleet.

And would it not be unthinkable for the FGFA to be delivered without full flight/mission simulators? These are cutting-edge fighters and will require a whole new generation of pilot to fly them- they are flying computers and require extensive ground based training for the pilots.

But surely if the IAF insists the FGFA will come with a full flight simulator after all the IN has got such a system for their Russian-origin MIG-29Ks?

+ are ADA doing anything to deliver a full flight simulator for the LCA for it enters SQD service in the next 24 months?

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

you have said it takes 5 years to undo the damage from a regressive legislation.Is it because the legislation has to be in force for such a time period? why can't a new party forming a government strike this law soon after coming to power in a matter of days?Is it to do with the entrenched bureaucracy?

Also what do you see happening in 2014 on the political/economic front?

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir, Which model of AL-31FP will power Super Sukhoi ? Will it be AL-31FM2 from MMPP Salyut with 13.5 kT thrust ?
Russian 2 TzNII MO RF is a RCS mesurement and facilty. It has been involved with RCS measures of various Russian origin fighter aircrafts, anti-ship missiles, strategic bombers.It continues its research in the firld of RCS reduction for sukhoi-27/30/35 & 34 series.Are the rcs reduction measures which haave been developed by it incorporated in HAL sukhoi ?
Russians also have a ERIC-1 test range where they conduct research into plsma stealth.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Do watch this 30-minute documentary on India’s Forgotten Spies at:

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: The BMP-2 ICV upgrade package is the Russian one, inclusive of Kliver turret & Kornet-E ATGMs. However, the upgrade will not bring it on par with the BMP-3 for sure. Why should India opt for an imported FICV when India’s private sector is more than capable of developing & producing better alternatives?

To Anon@11.55PM: 1) The RMAF’s Su-30MKMs operate over completely different types of terrain in terrain-hugging mode. IAF never wanted the Su-30MKIs to operate in such flight modes. That role is best fulfilled by Jaguar IS, MiG-27UPG & Rafale. 2) No. Takeoff under bad weather conditions is impossible due to possibility of lightning strikes. 3) Mirage 2000UPG will have the NAVFLIR/Damocles LDP combination, but n ot for all Mirage 2000UPGs. 4) They have NVGs. 5) They did. And I took the GSAT-7’s photo & uploaded it. Those who know about such technologies can easily figure out what’s on board by just looking at the photo. 6) IAI/RAFALE don’t make such sensors. They don’t need to, since Israel is linked to the US BMEWS. 7) Nope. Deployment of ground-based BMD for cities is impossible until ground-based X-band tracking radars are in place.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KSINGH: No full-mission simulators for A-50I, only part-task trainers. Of course there’s a glaring need for flight simulators for Su-30MKI & MiG-27UPG & MiG-21 Bison. However, even during the 1970s & 1980s the IAF made no effort to procure such simulators. As for Tejas Mk1, the IAF has clearly stated that it WILL NOT begin pilot conversion to Tejas Mk1 unless & until the flight simulator arrives. And so far ADA has not placed any procurement contract with any foreign OEM for sourcing such flight simulators. There’s no expertise available within India for developing such simulators. Therefore, every time anyone says that Tejas Mk1 will be inducted into service or has entered IOC-1/2, they make a fool out of themselves since they clearly have not read either the IAF’s ASQRs or the IAF’s Tejas Mk1 induction protocols. It is a matter of common-sense that without such flight simulators & CPTs, no IAF pilot can even commence the process of type-conversion & when this does not happen, IOC cannot even commence. Does anyone in the MoD or even among the ‘desi’ press corps even know about such a procedure & practice whenever they go bombastic about IOC-1 & IOC-2? Bloody buffoons!!!!!!

To Anon@12.28AM: Even if new legislation is enacted within 1 minute by any new govt, it takes almost five years to undo the wrong already committed on the ground. It has nothing to do with any entrenched bureaucracy. One of the ways of cutting down red-tape is the across-the-board implementation of e-governance.

To Anon@1.17AM: The AL-31FM2 is being further uprated now & will produce 20% more thrust than the existing AL-31FP Series 3. All RCS reduction features already certified by the OEM automatically feature on production-standard platforms. Even HAL would not know what some of these features are, since HAL was never involved with development of the Su-30MKI’s airframe.

Anonymous said...

1.Why cant Su-30 fly under zero visibility conditions ? The pilot can pilot the aircraft using flir iamgery from OLS-30.

2. Similarly IAF Su-30 can also engage in terrain huggimg flight with this flir imagery.

3. What flir jaguar IS deploy for it to be able to undertake terrain hugging flights ?

4.DRDO can import Super Green Pine X-band early warning and precision target tracking radars from IAI.

5.The two ELta 2080 which ere bought in 2000, what are they now used for ? Are they operationally deployed ? Are they being used in RD of phase 2?

6.VMT for answering.

7.NVG are useful only at night They dont help the pilot to see through fog as flir do.

Vamshi Al said...


Is there a possibility of India increasing its defense budget for the next term? If so, how much increase can we expect? Will India militarily involve in Afgan after coalition forces leave in 2014? Will US consider cutting off military aid to Pakistan and instead help Afgan national Forces financially? I heard Russia will help supplying arms to afgan national army, is that true? I would appreciate your views. Thank you.

Vamshi Al

abs said...

1)So finally we see the adevnt of the Missile Monitoring System,though the GSAT-7 is also a military communications satellite. Any rationale behind this decision to strike two targets with one arrow (tongue in cheek)?
2)I was going through your thread on CBMs inked between India and China so far and find whatever the Chinese demands are for the DBCA had already been inked between the two sides priorly. So what is the rationale behind a new agreement that is akin to an old wine in a new bottle?
3)Any idea when the long range X band tracking radar for BMD purposes would be developed?
4)Why is the IA only bothered about launching an offensive in Eastern Sikkim while leaving out the Aksai Chin area, something that China always covets? India superior offensive air projection could enable India to launch offensives in this area as mentioned earlier by you.
5)If the entire J&K state is demilitarised then India would also lose its theater wide domination of Ladakh vis-a-vis China. Your thoughts?
6)Do you think India has started developing sub conventional tactics to take on future Pakistani 9/11 style attacks? As it is futile to have a 3rd generation warfare riposte to sub conventional warfare. Besides the entire line between state sponsored and individual sponsored acts of terror are increasingly becoming blurred in Pakistan.

abs said...
Is this true?

Anonymous said...

Is this real or BS

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@6.59AM: 1) The OLS-30 or any other IRST sensor is meant for scanning the airspace ahead for airborne threats & therefore it is not an enhanced situational awareness system for terrain-hugging flights. It can’t do two things at the same time. It is only possible on the Rafale, where there are two separate visual sensors: an IRST sensor & a daylight/low-level-light TV. Jaguar IS pilot equipped with NVG can engage in terrain-hugging flights. But when uses NVGs, then HMDS cannot be used. ABM radars like Green Pine or X-band Super Green Pine are still not allowed for export as operational sensors. The two Green Pines acquired by the DRDO in 2001 & 2002 were sold by Israel ON CONDITION that they be used solely for R & D purposes & not for actual operational deployment. On that consition, the US authorised Israel to supply them to India. Both NVGs & FLIR use the same type of passive IR sensor. So, how come FLIR can see through fog while NVG cannot? Better do some more homework.

To VAMSHI AI: India’s defence budget has always been on the increase since 1998. By how much it will increase next fiscal year depends on the state of the fiscal deficit & annual inflation rate. India won’t send its military forces to Afghanistan. Instead, Afghanistan will later this week formally ask India for military hardware supplies, such as IFG Mk2 105mm light field guns, 81mm & 120mm mortars, their related ammo stocks, & IRDE-developed & BEL-built handheld thermal imagers-cum-laser rangefinders.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: 1) It is always economical to kill two birds with one stone since the satellite will be positioned in an area from where the electromagnetic communications & IR/UV surveillance footprints will be identical. 2) The BDCA clauses of 1996 were never inked. Hence the proposal is now being revived. 3) It will take at least a decade to do so. 4) Aksai Chin area’s terrain & altitude conditions are totally different from those in eastern Sikkim. The former can easily be overwhelmed by a vertical envelopment airmobile operation supported by offensive airpower plus helicopter-gunships, & NH-219 can easily be interdicted. Armoured vehicles will be of no use in this area except as static pillboxes for strictly defensive purposes for either party. Instead, helicopter-gunships like Rudra & LAH will be far more effective than MBTs or tank destroyers. In eastern Sikkim, however, the Dolam Plateau is at much lower altitudes & therefore, limited combined arms operations with armoured/mechanised infantry brigades is indeed possible. 5) Demilitarisation in J & K is a three-lane process, i.e. all three parties—China, India & Pakistan must move at the same time concurrently in the same direction, as I had explained in the previous thread. It is not about India taking any unilateral steps. 6) No. That doctrine still stays closed. However, the recent pact between Iran & India to operationalise the Chah Bahr port ASAP & use it as an outlet for central Asian countries & Afghanistan to get access to the sea lanes of communications along the Straits of Hormuz will effectively deter Pakistan from engaging in 4th generation warfare against India. Right now, the only reason why the LeT & JeM are not targetting India is because they’re involved full-time along with the LeJ & 31 other Tanzeems at the Pakistan Army’s behest in Baluchistan. Pakistan Army has so far suffered more than 15,600 casualties since 2004 along its western frontier & is clearly not in a position to engage in any kind of limited conventional conflict against either Afghanistan or India, nor is it in a position to wage 4th-generation proxy wars across multiple fronts. 7) Yes, it is indeed true. But it does not amount to a let-down either. For the very same LORROS that was dismantled from Chumar OP can easily be mounted on the DRDO-developed Akashdeep aerostat & be positioned slightly further inland & still the IA will be able to maintain 24/7 visual vigil over that very same area without any degradation. Therefore, no big deal for China at all if the two tin-sheds at Chumar have been dismantled.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@1.57PM: Your guess is as good as mine.

Anonymous said...

Sir, Again a lot of thanx for answering.

1. OLS-30 can provide flir imagery during take-off and landing. It can also provide infrared imagery during terrain masking flights. As and when it is required the pilot can switch between airspace scanning and air to ground mode.

2.No OEM potrays its product as less capable. If indeed OLS-30 has flir imagery mode and i believe it has why doesnt UOMZ or Knaapo market this additional air-ground capability as part of Su-35 marketing?

3.What HMDS will MiG-29UPG and upgraded Su-30 going to have ?

4.Chinese media has reported the purchase of around 47 Su-35BM from Knaapo. Whereas Russian state media has claimed that no such deals were ever struck. What is it like this ?

5. FLIR and NVG indeed uses the same passive IR sensor but I have never come across any writtings or videos stating or showing the usage of NVG during day. In many videos i have seen that everthing looks so bright that you cant distinguish between objects when you look through a NVG during day.

6. Why in the very 1st place DRDO started R&D on BMD with help from Israeli and using Israeli radars when it knows fully well that such radars cant be opeartionally deployed,without such radars the entire operation is futile and it doesnt possess the required expertise to develope an indigenous X band long range tracking radar based on it.Instead DRDO could look to Almaz-Antey instead.

7.Readymade BMD solutions outside US technolgy control regimes are available like S-300V,PMU-1/2/3,S-400 and MBDA Aster-30 and Aster -30 blk2 which is capable of intercepting 3000 km range class ballistic missiles.

8. Cant DRDO adopt Thales radar which is being used in Aster BMD program and integrate it with our BMD system. BMD Phase 1 already utilses a French Master-A MFCR .I learnt this from your BMD thread.

9. How many Kliver turret BMP are in service? Never came across any such photo.

10.If armour improvement is a part of BMP2 upgrade why wasnt there any mention of it in the media. Even Army chief didnt spoke anything about it. Desi media reported upgarde includes commander's new panoramic sight,TISAS, new generation ATGM,improved hp powerpack,automatic grenade launcher. There wasnt any mention of armour improvement.

11.japan usually doesnt export military realated hardware. Why all of a sudden it provided with such multi-spectral payloads. Is it part of some secret contract? Who is the OEM of such IRUV sensors.

12.I get to learn new things from your blog and your great comments and replies.Am very grateful to you for all the great ans. VMT.

rad said...

Hi prasun
I was not aware of sarsat ,VMT, what happened to the upgrade of the zsu-23-4 ? there seems to be no news about it apart from a group of desi jurnos having a pic beside it.I did see it in a previous aero india.
There is a news that t he army was not happy with the system. Please explain. I think we should go in for the oerlikon 35 mm ahead system as it seems to be the best.
China`s president has come to screw us on the trade side and make money out of us , its clear when he says lets talk trade and leave the border issue for good , and these f--ing politicians let huawei and others inside so that they may bring us to our knees in war by crashing our telecom system.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@3.26PM: OLS-30 providing FLIR imagery on HDD cannot enable any pilot to takeoff or land. During takeoff & landing the pilot must always look outwards, not inside his cockpit. That’s why the C-130J-20 has separate swiveling HUD displays above the pilot’s & co-pilot’s head on which the FLIR imagery is displayed. It is the Enhanced Vision System (EVS) from Rockwell-Collins. 2) There’s no need to market such a capability as such a capability is already known to all interested parties. 3) MiG-29UPG has Sura-M HMDS. Super Su-30MKI will have Dash Mk5. 4) It’s always like that. 5) No one uses NVGs or FLIR during daytime. Only thermal imagers. 6) That’s how the NDA govt wanted it to be. They thought both China & Pakistan would get scared, just like in 2002 when the NDA govt tried to scare Pakistan with OP Parakram. On both counts, the NDA govt has since failed. 7) None of these countries will export anything that will intercept 3,000km-range ballistic missiles. They will only export systems that can intercept NLOS-BSMs & TBMs. 8) THALERS-made radars are useless against IRBMs & MRBMs. 9) None so far. 10) It was all highlighted in several magazines during DEFEXPO 2012. 11) Such sensors are dual-use items & don’t have any offensive element. Even signals direction-finding hardware were sold by Japan to IA in mid-1999.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: 48 ZSU-23-4 Schilkas are now being upgraded by BEL. All the bugs have been ironed out to the IA’s satisfaction & once the VSHORADS is selected by the IA, four such missiles will be mounted on each of these upgraded Schilkas. 2) 35mm AHEAD/Skyranger is indeed the best & must be acquired ASAP, but how does one explain all this to St Antony??? 3) You don’t need ZTE or Huawei to crash India’s telecom system when there are plenty of traitors already doing this in-country. Just read this:

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir, Which AL-31 uprated variant are to be procured for Super Sukhoi? IAF has already placed orders for 2000 AL-31FP which is the basic TVC version. 10 engines have already been provided to HAL. What will ahppen to these engines when the uprated engines arrive in 2014? Was any contract signed for uprated AL-31FM
.Was Ataka ATGM part of the initial Mil Mi-17V5 deal ?
Will HAL Rudra series production kick off this year ? Does the Chinese really have built underground hangars for jets at Gonkar according to the RAW official ? Doesnt IAF has any such hardened air base in NE or Sikkim which has underground hangars ?
Is it true that Su-27 exported to PLAAF by Russia had downgraded fire control systems,NOO1 radar,Sorbitsya wingtip jamming pods ?Does the Russians still resort to this practise of exporting downgraded equipments when it comes to the Chinese. USSR started this practise and those hardware were referred as monkey models.After cold war the practise was abolished.

Anonymous said...


What is the status of India's proposed SSN design based on Barracuda SSN. When can we expect the first SSN to be inducted into the IN. Below is a link to one of your old report on Indian proposed SSGN fleet.


Anonymous said...

Sir, You have crystal cleared my doubts and confusions.

1.Which electro optic sensor is used by aircrew for terrain hugging and navigation in zero visibility,white-out conditions,thick smoke,haze during daytime. For example it is a fine winter morning and there is thick fog cover.

2.Thermal imagers are only FLIR sensors. FLIR cameras have thermal imagers as the main sensor.FLIR cameras operate at long or mid IR wave band whereas NVG operate in near infrared spectrum.

3.LANTIRN pods were used by USAF F-16,F-15E during bothb daytime and at night for navigation.

4.Has China contracted 47 S35S or hasnt ?

5.Thales and MBDA actively market their BMD systems capable of intercepting 3000 km range missiles.Russia had offered India S-300V BMD system and S-300 PMU series of long range sam systems.

6.Those Master-A MFCR bought as part of BMD phase-1 can they be operationalised ? How many such radars were bought ?

7. On which radars will BMD phase-2 depend ? PDV is nearing completion and AD-1 are in advanced stages of developement.

8.Skyranger indeed needs to be bought ASAP. If in 2014 elections, NDA comes to power this deal will go through.

9.There were plans of fitting AN-32 with EVS and FLIR turrets. Were those plans scrapped.

10. Can the GSAT-7 IR,UV sensor pick up cruise missiles ,NLOS-BSM ?

Anonymous said...

Tibet posses plenty of mountain ranges. It is not at all flat. There are many scopes of terrain masking there. PLAAF pilots can also engage in terrain masking training pilots here due to plenty of rough terrain. On our side we have mountain ranges & hills only in the Noth of the country and they doesnt provide enough scope of judicial training of our pilots in tearrain masking. Your views sir.

Joker said...


Do you think there is any chance India will sell/donate ALHs or ALH WSI/Rudras to the Afghans? It would bolster realations and meet India's interests of battling the Pakistani-backed taliban.

Ravi said...

Hi. I've noticed one very active poster, handle "anonymous". Lot of highly detailed questions. Why the "anon"? As a blogger myself (Bloggist?), considering how much work PSG goes through to answer these questions, as a courtesy Anon should use his real name!


Sujoy Majumdar said...

Many thanks Prasun Da for the insights .

Regarding your last point about the ability of Indian Pvt Cos to manufacture FICV , do you think they have the cutting edge technology necessary because they had teamed up with foreign OEMs to pitch for the FICV deal ? Also , there was this report on NEWS X last month , that the automobiles manufactured in INDIA are of extremely poor quality . Just a reminder that a number of these automobile manufacturers are also designing hardwares for the defense sector .


AK said...

Hi Prasun, A few weeks have passed since OSA-AKM missile rounds failed to hit its targets. What decision has been taken by IAF HQ with regard to OSA-AKM inventory ?

Any news on RFP issued for the purchase of 5 QRSAM regiments ?

You have outlined plans of IAF to install full spectrum flight simulators in each of IAF bases housing Su-30 squadrons ? Has this plan been put into action ?

Which HAL facility will undertake Su-30 upgrade package. ?

Besides MAFI project are any such projects underway for hardenning frontline airbases with addition of HAS,blast pens,revettments ?

Are there any firm plans of inducting sizable nos of Shauyra into IA , ordering more Chinooks for vertical envelopement operations.

What is the status of Arihant PWR?

Why doesnt Ruskies develope multi ejector pylons for AAM like the Western nations? Until arrival of Nirbhay which standoff PGM will address IAF's current operational needs and maintain offensive parity with the neighbouring airforces ? Is IAF HQ interested in Storm Shadow, Taurus KEPD 350 for Su-30,Jaguar darin-3 ?

If there is a limited high intensity war between China and India over the border issue and PLA resorts to its superior artillery resources for massed fire assautls,what options will be there for IA , IAF when a volley of incoming NLOS-BSM,TBM is detected approaching towards an airbase,logistics area. Unless there are serious deployments of LR-SAM , PAC-3 , or similar class missiles you are doomed to lose most of your warfighting assets and sustenance infrastructure. This aspect of war between China and India should be well kept in mind by our armed forces chiefs and suitable capabilies must be gradually build up . The other way of neutralising such massed assault threats before a single round is fired is pre-emptive strike which will amount to war and our Gandhian politicians will never resort to such strikes. The other possible way is defense through anti-missile SAM systems and once they have fired we must counter fire with our stocks of NLOS-BSM,cruise missiles,etc to neutralise their artillery. PLAAF has many super hardened bases built into mountains which can resist a direct tactical yield nuke hit They have huge aircraft basing capabilties.PLAAF acs operating from them will be invulnearble to our missile strikes. Thus PLAAF can protect their military assets through relatively cheap means without having to resort to expensive layered BMD systems ?

From your discussions with DRDO officials associated with BMD program what do you reckon to be the production run of AD-1,AD-2,PDV and how are the armed forces planning to deploy such a system?

Will the IAF Rafales have tri-ejector MICA AAM pylons as depicted in one of your threads ? Has the MMRCA program picked up spped or is it still progressing at snail's pace ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

At long-last, the right kind of noises are being made. Read this:

And this should have been enacted at least two decades ago. Anyway, it needs to be pushed through now ASAP:

And finally, this is a perfect example of how the Indian taxpayer’s money is being wasted:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAVI: I totally agree. VMT. Once they've crossed my threshold of tolerance, I'll stop answering them.

To JOKER: The Afghans require Mi-17V-5s, not Dhruvs or Rudras or LCHs. Just a single Dhruv Mk4 gifted to Afghanistan for VVIP travel will not be economically viable.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: When teamed up with foreign OEMs—like how TATA has teamed up with Rheinmetall & how Ashok Leyland has teamed up with Krauss-Maffei Wegmann—Indian OEMs will definitely be contractually obligated to adhere to the same QA & QC standards as their foreign industrial partners. Automobiles designed for India are customised for Indian operating conditions & will therefore not be suitable for markets outside South Asia. The same goes for accessories as well. To give you an example, tyres built in South Korea won’t last for even 2 months on the roads of Western Australia, Indonesia, Malaysia & Singapore due to differing climatic conditions.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

In the times of India link that you have provided the Chinese media says that - "The Indian sense of national pride is very strong " .

But this can't be true because in India we tend to be more affiliated to our community , our religion , our state etc . There is no feeling of being Indian .


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@4.34PM: AL-31FP turbofans are modular & therefore the existing hot-sections can easily be replaced by new ones to enable higher thrust ratings to be achieved. No Ataka ATGMs. Rudra requires at least two years of flight-testing for certification purposes. There are no underground hangars at Gonggar Airport. TAR’s first dedicated air base will be in Shigatse, not Gonggar. PLAAF’s Su-27s began arriving in 1992, AFTER the Cold War ended.

To Anon@4.36PM: Work on the SSN project will commence in the latter half of this decade.

To Anon@4.54PM: 1) During such conditions no sorties are flown. 3) LANTIRN is always used only at nighttime. 4) Not 47. 5) They’re marketed only in NATO member-states. Russian LR-SAMs cannot intercept IRBMs & MRBMs. 6) Only two were bought & they can be used only for mid-course guidance. 7) Green Pine & Master-A MFCR. PDV is nowhere near completion. AD-1/2 will not be available until the latter half of this decade. 8) NDA Govt when it power committed some of the worst mistakes as far as national security planning goes. 9) There were no such plans. 10) No.

To Anon@5PM: Yes, they exist within the TAR hinterland, not while approaching the LAC towards India.

To AK: The entire stocks of existing SAM rounds of OSA-AK are now being tested for serviceability & reliability. Simulators for Su-30MKI air bases are being inducted at a very slow pace. All structural activity for Super Su-30MKI project will be undertaken at Nashik by HAL. No HAS, only storm shelters & rivetments. There are no mountainside tunnels or underground hangars at any existing airport in TAR & there are no operational air bases of the PLAAF that are close to the LAC. Triple ejector racks for Rafale are meat for PGMs, not AAMs.

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

" None of these countries will export anything that will intercept 3,000km-range ballistic missiles. They will only export systems that can intercept NLOS-BSMs & TBMs."

Why si this so? It is logical for the west to see missile defence to all capitalist democracies.

I am surprised the capability to intercept MRBMs exist outside of the US(Aegis, THAAD).

rad said...

HI Prasun
Regarding the Schilkas , nice to hear that the probs are sorted out and that hey are being inducted, 48 are a woefully small number.You mentioned the that vshorads will be mounted on them . but that will complicate integration since they will have to have Ir or radar designators to cue the missiles . I hear that all present systems have increased their lethality by this

saurav jha said...

Hello Prasun,

There are reports that USA will handover a major chunk of MRAPs, ICVs, Mortars and Anti-Tank missiles to Pakistan when leaving. Should India be worried..? and why are we not trying to buy these equipments at low cost..?

rad said...

HI Prasun
I forgot that the upgraded schilkas have both, what meant is that when a missile from another country is going to be integrated with the israeli avionics there will be a problem.
This brings an idea which i dont know will work ,cant the small aesa schilka radar be configured for the lch or the rudra so that it can have its own battle field surveillance radar?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@4.47AM: MTCR guidelines & regulations. India’s application to join the MTCR club is still pending.

To RAD: The VSHORADS will be of the IR-guided fire-n-forget type. No separate fire-control system is reqd. Battlefield surveillance radar for any heliborne platform must have GMTI capabilities. A customised version of the EL/M-2054 or EL/M-2055D radars will therefore be a far better option.

To SAURAV JHA: Those issues are still being sorted out & have not yet been finalized, since the US plans to retain 9 bases inside Afghanistan post-ISAF pullout. The bulk of the MRAPs & 81mm/120mm mortars will consequently be given to the Afghan security forces. The Javelin ATGMs won’t be left behind & will be airlifted back. A few TPQ-36 mortar-locating radars & some MRAPs will be given to the Pakistan Army, but such hardware will hardly make any difference to the India-Pakistan conventional military balance, since all such hardware will be used by the Pakistan Army & Frontier Corps (which is to be expanded & re-equipped as per present plans) for their forthcoming planned offensive operations in North Waziristan.

Anonymous said...

finally DIA works are coming out,i think its work of DIA. What do you think which agency did this one?

AK said...

Hi Prasun, You have overlooked this
: If there is a limited high intensity war between China and India over the border issue and PLA resorts to its superior artillery resources for massed fire assautls,what options will be there for IA , IAF when a volley of incoming NLOS-BSM,TBM is detected approaching towards an airbase,logistics area. Unless there are serious deployments of LR-SAM , PAC-3 , or similar class missiles you are doomed to lose most of your warfighting assets and sustenance infrastructure. This aspect of war between China and India should be well kept in mind by our armed forces chiefs and suitable capabilies must be gradually build up . The other way of neutralising such massed assault threats before a single round is fired is pre-emptive strike which will amount to war and our Gandhian politicians will never resort to such strikes. The other possible way is defense through anti-missile SAM systems and once they have fired we must counter fire with our stocks of NLOS-BSM,cruise missiles,etc to neutralise their artillery. PLAAF has many super hardened bases built into mountains which can resist a direct tactical yield nuke hit . These bases are not present in TAR but are present elsewhere from where their acs can influence the battle in TAR.They have huge aircraft basing capabilties.PLAAF acs operating from them will be invulnearble to our missile strikes. Thus PLAAF can protect their military assets through relatively cheap means without having to resort to expensive layered BMD systems ?

Are there any firm plans of inducting sizable nos of Shauyra into IA , ordering more Chinooks for vertical envelopement operations.

Elta Green pine cant be used for opeartional early warning and long range missile tracking. Then on which survellience radar will phase 2 be based ? Dr Saraswat's claims of a hit to kill ABM missile launch employing IR seekers were all pure hogwash and bullshit as it can be seen now. I am waiting since January for such a launch but itv has not yet taken place.

Your thread M-MRCA Competition: The Final Faceoff posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 shows a Rafale pic with triple ejector racks for Mica AAM. This pic was prepared by Dassault for Brazil MRCA competition. Is dassault offering such pylons to India ?

Cant MoD seek the help of Tata or Ashok leyland for introducing modern automated assembly lines at HVF Avadi for faster production of tanks per annum from the present 50.

RBS70 is also in VSHORADS competition. Its not a fire and forget type missile.

How effective are KT03UE Russian IR jammers against Mistral and latest Stinger variants ?

What are the statuses of RFPs issued for helicopter launched anti-ship missiles for which contenders were Konisberg NSM and Saab RBS15, shore launched coastal defense ASHM,medium range AASHM to be fired from ships,5 regiments and a few squadrons of QRSAM for which Diehl IRIS-T SL, Rafael SPYDER , Vityaz , Raytheon NASAMS , MBDA VL MICA.

SubirBhattacharjee said...

Sir, VMT for answering. I hope I havent crossed your tolerance level.You are the only person from where I can get ans to my ques.

1.Doesnt the new generation display systems have in built nigh vision sensors ?

2.For its existing fleet of An-32B tactical transports, which will be logging the bulk of the night-flying sorties to and fro the ALGs, there is an urgent need to equip such IAF-operated aircraft with enhanced flight vision avionics (EFVA) of the type presently on board the C-130J-20 Super Hercules transports and to be available on the C-17A Globemaster III. These are from your blog.An excellant idea. WHY DOESNT IAF IMPLEMENT SUCH IDEAS ?

3.Such systems are not costly. The best among all EVSS according to my reckonig is one from Thales. it combines a wide angle holographic display with CMC IR sensor.

4.Which EEVS does C-130J uses ?

5. From where does EVS system of C-17 gets infrared imagery ? There isnt any infrared sensor on C-17 Globemaster 3 whereas C-130J had electro-optic turret.

6.Your mentioned EEVS are also used during daytime under poor visibity conditions.

7.Which country is helping India in developing its own long range X-band BMD radar?

8.Can you shed some light into T-90AM upgrade of army T-90 fleet ? Is this plan operational or scrapped ?

Sujoy Majumdar said...


Can you please throw some light on India's UCAV project . The US has already carried out the successful test flight of the X 47 B from an aircraft carrier .

Is the UCAV project making any significant progress ?

Doesn't it make sense for India to participate in the NEuro UCAV project ?


Anonymous said...

Sir, Uprated AL-31 FP has a larger fan diameter and require slight bigger intakes.This part isnt modular.Intakes need to be changed. AL-31FM isnt a drop and fit solution.
When will the sea trials of 1st kamorta class corvette begin ? Which ULF TAS this corvette has?
What is the air-space survellience radar of kolkata class?
Cant IA build modern Vietcong and NVA type underground complex of tunnels,living quarters,hospital with basic facilties. I am not talking of NORAD type bunkers. Just a network of tunnels. These tunnels can be built in NE as there are many hills there. Positioning of troops there will not alert the opponent and it will very difficult to keep track of with staellites and spy planes ?
Who is the main supplier of MPV to IA ? OFB MPV has failed quality tests.
Soviet BRDM recon vehicles are still in service with army ?
What is India's QRF which can be airlifted and can respond to any emergency withina matter of hours and whose units are kept on continuous stanby in rotation.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AK: That will tantamount to a totally defensive mindset & will be economically unsustainable. A far better option is to improve the IA’s & IAF’s ISTAR & counter-strike capabilities. There are no plans for ordering Shaurya TBMs. Phase-2 will use radars as Phase-1. Those are not triple-ejector racks for AAMs. All three MICA AAMs are clearly shown mounted on standalone unitary pylons. Assembly lines for MBTs are never automated anywhere in the world. RBS-70 is no longer a serious contender for the VSHORADS competition. It never was. The Mistral was always the frontrunner. All IR jammers are equally effective against any existing IR/UV-guided SAM/AAM.

To SUBIR BHATTACHARJEE: 1) No, they’re standalone devices. 2) An-32REs never log nighttime flights to ALGs. Only night-capable aerial logistics-capable transports of the IAF are the existing six C-130J-30s. 3) EVSS from US- & Canada-based OEMs are the best. 4) C-130J-30 uses Rockwell-Collins EVSS that uses imagery from the chin-mounted FLIR turret. 5) Such turrets can always be mounted on C-17As as well. 7) No one right now. 8) That plan was scrapped last year.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: The DRDO’s USAV project is still in the detailed design stage & its first technology demonstration prototype won’t surface before 2020. Because prior to that there’s an operational reqmt for a twin-engined HALE-UAV powered by two Laghu Shakthi turbofans to be met. For all intents & purposes this HALE-UAV will bear a close resemblance to the Talarion HALE-UAV from EADS CASSIDIAN. It will therefore be far more appropriate for the ADE to first develop a USAV variant of the twin-engined HALE-UAV before even contemplating the development of a stealthy USAV.

To Anon@11.16PM: Uprated AL-31FP isn’t the same as AL-31FM. Don’t compare apples with oranges. One doesn’t require enlarged air-intakes for accommodating uprated turbofans. The turbofan’s thermal efficiency can be increased in many other ways. There’s no foolproof MPV. All MPVs are vulnerable to IEDs. Tunnels in Vietnam were employed for waging guerrilla warfare. They’re totally useless when engaging in conventional positional warfare.

rad said...

HI Prasun

Is there any mention of of mounting a elm 2055 type radar on to the LCH? It will be stupid not to, other wise they should mount it on a dedicated alh for such purpose and data linked to all.
Why is the rbs-70 not in the fray for the vshorads ?, i feel it could be because it has to be manually guided and that would be difficult in a dust and smoke filled battle field , correct?.

Anonymous said...

Plz clear my doubts about range of operations for the following maritime assets.
1. It has been stated that p8i will replace tu142 in maritime surveillance. Its ok that p8i is new airframe with new avionics & more fuel efficient. But when we compare their ranges from data from wikipedia- we get p8i range is 1200nm whereas tu142 range is 7500nm. So to detect a ssbn armed with 5000km slbm only the tu142 will be able to detect that sub, considering the sub is also 5000km away from mainland. Does p8i will be able keep a watch over the whole Indian ocean.
2. The german hdw claims that their submarines have larger range of operations compared to scorpene,S80,amur or other's in conventional subs category. Is it due to that german subs use MTU diesel engines or more fuel capacity or because of its fuel cell aip.

ArunM said...

Hi Prasun,

GoI can install Joule Solar-E and solar-D plants in Gujarat,Rajasthan. There are plenty of thermal power plants there. So, CO2 supply will not be a problem.There is requirement of initial live-stocks . Further CO2 emitted from coal fired plants will be used up for making bio-diesel and bio-ethanol thus spreventing CO2 emissions and payment of carbon credits. It will also make India self-reliant in its energy demands,reduce import of crude oil from foerign nations, and ultimately improve country's economy.This fuel source can be used by army tanks,ifv,navy ships and submarines.

Is DRDO engaged in any such algael based renewable energy developement ?

" The AL-31FP, presently rated at 126kN with afterburning, will offer 20% more power when uprated by NPO Saturn—its manufacturer--and will have a total technical service life of 6,000 hours, instead of the present 2,000 hours. The uprated engine will also employ a larger diameter fan, redesigned key hot-end components and cooling system technologies to permit reduced thrust lapse rates with altitude, which in turn will permit supercruise flight regimes." You said this in a previous thread. Now,how are you saying that fan diameter will remain the same ? What about 3D thrust vector nozzels ?

SSF was originally raised keeping in mind clandestine ops and covert warfare in mind. What is its present role ? It is the most secretive among all our special forces.How is it equipped compared to other special forces ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

There was a very interesting seminar called FIREPOWER INDIA 2013 that was organised jointly by CLAWS and India Strategic magazine on Wednesday, 22 May 2013 from 0900 hrs to 1700 hrs at Delhi’s Manekshaw Centre. The following papers were presented:
• Emerging Firepower Capabilities – Maj Gen P R Shankar, VSM, ADG Artillery
• Ballistic Missile Defence – Efficacy, Development and Employment – Maj Gen H Gopalan, ADG Army Air Defence
• Helicopters in Manoeuvre War – Maj Gen P K Bharali, VSM, ADG Army Avn
• Future Combat Helicopters – Industry Presentation by Boeing (TBC)
• Future of Unmanned Systems – Maj Gen G D Bakshi, SM, VSM (Retd)
• ISR in Maritime Domain – Rear Adm D M Sudan, ACNS (Air), IN
• Precision in Satellites through Pointing, Positioning & Beam Forming – AVM Dev Ganesh (Retd), Honeywell
• Unmanned Systems – Jim Thomson, Deputy Director, General Atomics
• Aircraft Carrier and Continental Reach – Rear Adm Karambir Singh, AVSM, FOC Maharashtra & Gujarat Area (FOMAG)
• Missile Development & Precision Guidance – Dr Vivek Lall, President and Chief Executive Officer, Chairman's Office, Reliance Industries Ltd
• Futuristic Aircraft Carrier – Scott Forney, Senior Vice President, General Atomics, USA
• Precision Engagement Platforms/Weapons Technologies – Guruprasad Mysore, Director –Strategic Marketing, Honeywell and Raghavan Muralidharan, Chief Technology Officer, Tata Power SED
It was an extremely interesting & insightful seminar & lots of new data emerged during the seminar & interactive sessions. Am still absorbing them.

ArunM said...

Solazyme is producing algae based biodiesel since 2007 and has already supplied Soladiesel HRF-76 to US Navy.

Pls publish your thread on field artillery programme of IA.

abs said...

Could you tell us what things you got to know in Firepower 2013?

rad said...

HI Prasun
the IAf wants new rifles now, the army wants one with inter changebale barrels , is the idea flawed ? i have not come across any nation having such requirements.

rad said...

hi Prasun
Israel has warned that it would take out the s-300 sams . Though it is a good sam in the high altitude regime , it is not so good in catching low level attackers am i right ?, in that case they may send in a swarm of harops to saturate and attack from all directions combined with jamming and low level spice weapons . What is your take on the so called super sam?

saurav jha said...

Hello prasun,

KSA has offered to supply extra oil to Pakistan with deferred payment option. the total deal will be of $ 12-15 Bill. What implication do you see on IP pipeline and Iran-pakistan relations in general..? Can we take any advantage of possible anti-Iran attitude of Sharif brothers..?

Arup said...

Hi Prasun,Is it possible for sub metric SAR mapping at ranges of 100 Km or greater and generate target data for weapons aiming. Watch this video :

Here APG-81 aesa of F-35 JSF is able to detect and classify SA-11 tel and its associated air-survellience radar.Does NO11M Bars radar has such long standoff SAR mapping range ?

Although the exact no of TR modules of any aesa has never been disclosed by the oem.But various defense sites are displaying the nos. According to most APG-81 has around 1200 TR elements,RBE-2 has 900. As guesses are mother of all ... do you think RBE2 flaunts of such a great SAR capabilty as F-35?

As MBDA is developing Spear will it be integrated to Rafale? Will the first Rafale batch have Spear in their armament package ?

TNN is reporting that Army wants a mountain strike corps with 40000 soldiers which is to be headquarted in Panagarh,two independent infantry and tank brigades each.It will cost around 81000 crores.

Is army really raising so many formations or it will just set up a strike corps HQ in Panagarh.From where will army get 81000 crore when several important hardware procurements cannot be signed due to lack of funds.

Anonymous said...

sir ,
the INDU will be set up in gurgaon shortly..but what kind of courses will be taught here which are not currently taught/available in india..
especially for the defence officers..
as indian military is regarded as one of the best trained forces in the world..?

Anonymous said...

Sir, Is it true that an asteroid is headin towards earth. it is a big city killer asteroid by the name of Wormwood. ? NASA is askinga us to pray .

Bible also propheised such an asteroidd hitting the earth in 2013. Is these all hozx or true ?

How does Lockheed Martin SBIRS compare with our GSAT-7 ? Can G take high res IR images of the battlefield like it.

Will Scorpene class carry mbda mdcn cruise missile which is based on Storm Shadow ?

IAF in 2011 showed some interest in Taurus cruise missile and Brimstone anti-armour missile. Does it plan to buy them ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@8.41PM: Wikipedia is not the OEM for such products & therefore it is always much better to compare data from the OEMs. And when comparing SSK performance data, which German SSK are you referring to?

To ARUNM: Forget about those states & instead let’s first talk about installing such solar power plants & wind-turbines in Ladakh, where the thermal efficiency of such plants is the highest! Just imagine how many jobs that will create throughout the state of J & K. If India was really serious about overcoming her dependence on imported hydrocarbons, then by now she should have formulated policies regarding usage of CNG and ethanol by automobiles. Fan diameter is not the same as turbofan diameter. They’re two different parameter. 3-D thrust vector nozzles have not yet been developed for any member of the Su-27/Su-30 family. SSF was originally conceived & trained by the US & India as a long-range land recce force. It’s role today stays the same.

To ABS: Will post most of the data relating to field artillery on a new thread.

To RAD: Inter-changeable assault rifles is all right for SOF personnel, but not for regular infantry. If one wants to destroy S-300 LR-SAM sights, there are several ways of doing it by air and land. In Israel’s case, the IDF’s DEAD doctrine after 1973 clearly states that since AAA is primarily land-based, prime responsibility for destroying such AAA assets rests with the IDF-Army, & not the IDF-AF. Therefore, the IDF-AF will use man-in-the-loop guided loitering PGMs like Delilah that will be launched from road-mobile TELs. Harop’s warhead is too small to be lethal against AAA sites. Harop is more well-suited for destroying mobile leadership targets.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SAURAV JHA: Sharif brothers don’t have any anti-Ira attitude. But it is their dependence on KSA for emergency bail-out funds that will now in all likelihood be the reason for cancelling the IP gas pipeline & the official reason to be given for this will be that the previous PPP-led govt had not consulted either Pakistan’s Parliament nor had done a financial feasibility study for this project. Another problem facing Pakistan now is Afghanistan & the mistaken notion among many Pakistani think-tanks that India is now on the backfoot & totally disoriented because India had all along cast all her bets with the US & since the US is now all set to downscale its presence in Afghanistan post-2014 (by deploying no more than 15,000 military personnel inside Afghanistan in nine bases), India will be the nett loser. The reality is totally different. For instance, India’s then Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh had way back in November 2001 predicted that the US & NATO would be present inside Afghanistan for at least the next 15 years. Accordingly, India had carefully crafted its Afghanistan strategy whose pivot was the provision of humanitarian assistance, as opposed to the securitised assistance that NATO countries provided. As a consequence, India is today the most favoured & popular country among almost all Afghan citizens, inclusive of the six major Pashtun communities, plus the Hazara, Uzbek & Tajik communities. Very very few discerning Pakistanis admit to this fact.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

cont'd from above

Secondly, no one even within India has noticed how there was total silence & no criticism from the US (meaning it approves such a move) when India recently pumped in US$100 million into the project to develop & expand the Chah Bahr port in southeastern Iran. What this means is that for landlocked Afghanistan this trade route via Iran will at last give Afghanistan as well as other central Asian Republics what they all have long sought: easy seamless access to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea & Persian Gulf for maritime trading purposes. Chah Bahr, therefore, completely defeats the very economic rationale for creating the Gwadar Port in Baluchistan. Consequently, Gwadar according to my Chinese interlocutors will be developed as a special economic zone (with no military inputs whatsoever) fully by China as a breather for most of the Pakistani SMEs that have since 2004 been almost wiped out by China’s mercantile dumping of China-made goods into Pakistan. These SMEs will be assembling from semi-knocked-down kits most of the China-designed & developed consumer products. In addition, Gwadar will be used as an entryport for all those raw materials (mostly hydrocarbons) that are ultimately destined for Xinjiang in China. For, under its Look West policy, China wants to pump in enormous funds over the next 5 years into both Xinjiang & Tibet on various poverty alleviation programmes—all this being part of a well-conceived plan for civilian pacification in these two areas. But for all this to succeed in large measure, China needs to conserve its funds rather than get imbroiled in a needless arms race spiral with India & for this to happen, China needs to ASAP resolve the LAC issue with India (which Xi Jinping had alluded to last march during the BRICS Summit in Durban). Hence the creation of the Depsang Incident aimed at ascertaining whether India would panic & resort to knee-jerk reactions, or whether India would react in a mature & proportionate manner. In this litmus test, fortunately, India emerged tops before May 15, proving to Beijing that India had the maturity to resolve the LAC issue in a win-win manner & not buckle under any form of domestic pressure (after all, successive generations of Indians have been brainwashed since their school-going days to believe that China was the unprovoked aggressor in 1962 & Nahru’s forward policy was not to blame). It was against this background that the Chinese Premier gave his firm commitment earlier this week to invest US$50 billion in a SEZ inside India that will produce ICT-based & pharma-based products & services almost exclusively for China’s domestic market. In addition, after the LAC’s successful authentication & demarcation, China wants to act as the transit country for Kazakh oil pipelines destined for India through Xinjiang & Ladakh, & other similar projects that have already been agreed upon by China, India & Russia over the past three years (hence the occurance of the annual China-India-Russia annual strategic dialogues) as part of Russia’s proposed Eurasian Customs Union. Consequently, both China & Russia are now counting on India to deliver on her pledges regarding the resolving of the LAC issue ASAP.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARUP: Yes, it is possible, but only woth AESA-MMR, not PESA-MMR. RBE-2 is comparable to the APG-81. India’s Union MoF has only authorised the formation of the Ciorps HQ in Panagarh.

To Anon@9.05PM: The same type of courses & degrees that are offered by other NDUs like those of the US, China, etc for not only military personnel, but also for civilian personnel & civil-servants.

To Anon@12.26AM: Don’t worry about all that & instead try to read about what the Holy Prophet Mohammad had prophecised about China, India & Pakistan. GSAT-7’s camera is not meant for acquiring visual imagery. No one takes IR imagery of the battlefield. Such images are either taken by daylight cameras or by SAR (radar-imaging). Submarine-launched SCALP can be launched from Scorpene SSK.

Joker said...


Are the DRDO devloping long rod penetrator APFSDS with DU or tungsten cores? Or is the IA looking at procuring such capable rounds from abroad?

Vamshi Al said...


Do you have any updates on HAL Medium Lift Helicopter?

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da , I found this sentence of your's very interesting

"....try to read about what the Holy Prophet Mohammad had prophecised about China, India & Pakistan..."

Not much of an expert on Islam as you would imagine , so can you please state what Mohammad said .


Subir said...

Sir,A few queries.

1.In clearing the mist you said that 40 MiG-27UPG and 105 MiG-27M are in service. Currently there are only 5 MiG-27 squadrons in service.Each squadron generally has 18 acs. Thus there is 90 acs. The nos dont really add up. Pls clarify.

2.MiG-27M squadrons of Hasimara,kalaikunda were supposed to convert to Su-30 mki from June of this year. Atleast taht was the plan. Due to delay in Tejas program and MMRCA negotiations has this plan been put on hold. When will MiG-27M get decommisioned ?

3. MiG-27 overhaul and spair parts production still takes place in Ukraine and Belarus. IAF can source airframe and engine parts from these countries.

4.Besides MiG-21 bison which MiG-21 variant is still in IAF service ?

5.While ADA is busy with acheiving Coa for Tejas mk1 cant HAL ramp up production capabilties at HAL Bangalore and put the required facilities in place to ensure a 8 ac pa production delivery.

6.What is the difference between Saturn Lyuka AL-31FP ser1 and ser3?

7.Desi media is reporting mig29 upg upgrade incountry will commence in 2015 and end in 2016. But hasnt it already begun ?

8.Will MBDA Naval storm shadow be procured for Scorpene?

9.Have you seen the video of Klub-K container missile system. Is there any need for such systems for our armed forces.

10. Sir,are you on vacation.When are you going to post a thread again.

Arup said...

Hi Prasun ,APG-81 has been displayed in many air expos. How much bigger is its aperture area comapared to RBE2AA. Pls dont say comparable. What has Thales disclosed about the SAR capabilties of RBE2AA till date ? Thales or Dassault is yet to come up with such a promo video.

Does APG-81 really has 1200 aprx no of TR modules?

What is the IOC of MBDA Spear?Will this radical PGM be included in Rafale weapons contracts in sizable nos?

How many Storm Shadow,KEPD 350 has IAF planned to procure as part of Rafale deal. is the Rafale deal a done one ?

Air Marshal has confirmed that MiG-21 and MiG-27 will be phased out by 2019.In all, 150 MiG-21 and 110 MiG-27 will be decommisioned. What will be the new additions to keep the nos same? All 270 sukhoi will be delivered by 2019.Plus there will be 40 Tejas mk1.

Is Army HQ planning a mountain strike corps with two infantry divisions and armoured brigades over and above the Army strike HQ in Panagarh?

Does SSF still conduct long range recce ops dep within enemy territory?

If you comapare the UAE airbase which was hosting F-22 with an Indian major airbase you will be surprised the infrastucture difference. The UAE base had differnt types of HAS for all fighters,hangars for large transport acs like C-130, more than a single runaway. IAF base at Thanjavur has just the very basic facilties to qualify it as an airbase and nt anything more.

This time pls ans them all.

Anonymous said... were right (!!!!!!)

NO "deals" signed in a long long while.........I think the last were when Putin came visiting (42 Su30MKI's + 58 Mi17V's).....

Sangos said...

Long Question - Which is the weakest Chinese pressure point in the entire India China military scenario that India can easily build up on and exploit to force the Chinese abandon their offensive attitude or is there inevitably none?

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasunji

I was going though your blogs where you have mentioned that China is SCARED by IAF posture and you would elaborate later. Could you please elaborate?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

As per St. John’s revelations, 200 Millions strong horse rider army from the “Kings of the East” will invade Jerusalem and to help them the Northern power will release four angels, who will dry out the Euphrates to enable these armies cross to the west.

Magnifying this story with necessary riders it may become apparent that 200 Millions strong machine riders army from the benevolent “Kings of the East” (i.e. India, Democratic China and dissolved Pakistan) will invade Jerusalem to liberate the Jerusalem from the encirclement of global Arabs and umma forces. To help the “Kings of the East” the Northern power (i.e. Russia) will invade Turkey to release the four angels i.e. four dams at Euphrates to dry it out to enable these armies to cross to the Jerusalem.

Democratic China and dissolved Pakistan may be another painful story.

Anonymous said...

sir ,
acc. to the above link currently approx 15% of IN IS COMPOSED OF OFFICERS..but in the next 15 yrs this will come down to 11%..
the IA has 1.13 million active troops but only 35000 officers..
sir why is that the officer to soldier ratio in the indian military is way below world standards..even the active duty us army has arnd 69000 active duty officers out of total strength of 5.5 lakh troops..even the RN has arnd 6500 officers out of total staffing of 35000..why is the the indian military if so lagging..y do foreign militaries require so many officers..what for ? what is that these officers do that indian military officers are not required to do?
when was the last time when officer strength was officially sanctioned for the 3 services..are there any plans to bring the no.s up in accordance with international standards?

Jay Bhanushali said...

hello prasun da.i have been folowing ur blog for a while now.i am very intrigued by ur in depth analysis on all subjects question is a bit off topic please pardon me for asking.i am about to complete my mbbs in 2014 from maharashtra and was contemplating joining one of the 3 indian armed forces as a doctor.can you guide me on this issue as to how to apply,selection process,scope of the work,what rank would i get etc.any info would be highly appreciated.regards

Vivek said...

Prasun da
Pl post your final thread on china

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir, When will construction of Jaitapur nuclear power plant start? The deal was signed in 2010.

Abhishek Dhar said...

Prasun sir,on a somewhat different topic what is the current status of our t-90 tank fleet.
We got off the shelf 310 vanilla t-90s and then 330 t-90m and then aaparently 347 heavily upgraded t-90am vladimir plus license production for total 1657.Now we hear of 354 t-90ms tagil.

What exactly is happening?How many we have in total atm.
What were the upgrades done on t-90m over t-90s.
How many of out t-90 are fitted with LEDS-150 and catherine thermal viewer.

Most important question,did we get the RELIKT era with t-90m,and the new 2a46m-5 rapira gun?

Anonymous said...

It seems that there is no end to the ladakh faceoff & now what compromise India is going to make-

abs said...

Indian Army plans to wage a parallel combined arms effects based war campaign in a future war scenario.Which means it wants to influence and shape and engage simultaneously at the contact,deep and rear battlefield under the overall air superiority umbrella of the IAF, which could then focus on its tactical and deep interdiction missions.

1)This warfighting strategy dubbed as the "pro-active" war strategy is generally seen as a strategy for the western front. And no one in the media or otherwise has attributed the same strategy being adopted vis-a-vis China.
I understand that the terrain would be very difficult along the China front.
And as neither side can gain sizeable territory hence both the sides have maintained a defensive posture. Though the Chinese have the doctrine of Active Defence while India till recently had the doctrine of Strategic defence.

2)Given IBG(combined arms) styled raisings of Independent Armoured Brigades, and offensively oriented strike divisions, along with the acquisition of NLOS-BSMs like Prahaar,Brahmos block2 and 3,Prithvi-3,Shaurya(the ones to be procured by IAF) and ALCMs along with the emphasis on acquisition of ISTAR platforms. I believe the IA and IAF is going for a similar Pro-Active Strategy vis-a-vis China. In all probability the Chinese have already got wind of it.

3)I also think and believe that adoption of a combined arms parallel hyper war waging doctrine stands better chances of acting as a deterrent against China than Pakistan because of 2 reasons
a)The N sabre rattling of Pak
b)The subconventional doctrine of PA which might set off its Terrorist Mercenaries against IA's war sustenance infrastructure.

Provided by 2022 India can take care of its infrastructural bottlenecks, India could indeed have a very sound Active Defence/Offensive defence strategy against China. Which would deter them from transgressions and help in settling of the Boundary Question expeditiously.

Would you concur with ,my assessments above regarding the changing nature of India's armed forces doctrine vis-a-vis China?
In what way does the Dissuasive Strategy differ from that of Active Defence or Offensive Defence?

Appu said...

SIR i need to know
1. Indian Army issued RFP for Transport Aircraft s of Quantity 56. It asks Foreign Gaints to make Partner with indian Firms to make the same. I ask How much worth it for the Indian Aerospace Industry and future of Private Firms to engage in this type of activity. In your opinion which company will take the lead. Is this the good thing to select Indian Private firms other than HAL.

2. When will be NAG , Astra missiles are going to be inducted?.

3. Is millimetric seeker be the criteria for Fourth Generation ATGM?.

RaviN said...

I saw these links when I searched for prophecies mentioned by PSG. I do not know how good/bad these sites. - in this book, it is mentioned "In 12 hours, approx. 150,000 people were murdered."

Anonymous said...

Sir, Has PLA constructed a metal top road 5 km into LAC in Finger 8 area and Army and airforce have no clue about until now. It seems Chinese are really uping the ante and something needs to be done.

F said...


Are end user certificates only needed for small arms, missiles, mines, ammo, etc or are they also needed for vehicles, radars, ships, etc? If any individual where to walk into the office of a small arms manufacturer [lets say FN Hestral] with a valid end user certificate and a letter of credit, would he be able to buy arms and ammo?

Have you heard of a British citizen [surname Franklin] who was supposedly the middle man between AVIBRAS and the Malaysian government?

Following BN's disastrous performance in the recently concluded General Elections, would you agree that there will not be any deals for big ticket items these next few years?

wmgfan said...

Has anyone else experienced the website is full of malicious cookies and viruses? My virus software picks one up each time I go to that site so I have stopped.

Mas said...

Yes, I face problems with idrw site.
Since I use Mac, my laptop is not affected much, but the it crashes once I start browsing idrw. Each time I see unwanted program files created whenever I go through the articles.

I already wrote to them to avoid malicious advertising sites. But it seems they are more interested in making money through advertisements than readers' satisfaction.

Anonymous said...

@ RaviN

better to ignore those brain farts. Even i had read many of them, but as the time pass by, and when you "grow up", you will understand that they are nothing but some childish crap meant for fools who have the luxury of wasting their time on internet.nothing else.

Rahul said...

Hi Prasun, Where is our indigenous bmd heading? Can DRDO design and productionise something as complex as 3000+ km range IRBM interceptors ?

Why will US object to operational use of Green pine radars when it was offering IAF,IA PAC-3 and IN with Aegis networked fire control system and the associated SM series of interceptors.

If GoI mandates the opeartinoal deployment of a bmd shield against select cities,major war sustenace infrastucture such as IN ports,airbases what options will MoD have ? What are the various fall back options MoD is considering if phase 2 of DRDO BMD program fails to materialise within the stipulated time as was the case with Tejas LCA.US,France,Russia are offering us respectable ABM capable products. PAC-3 and its MSE variants have been operational for quite some years now. Lockheed offered us PAC-3MSE for our LRSAM program. Russian S-300,400 sam systems are operational with many countries around the globe. It ahs become the benchmark of IADS and iads penetration capabilties of all 4++ and 5+ gen fighter acs are tested against it.

Almaz Antey is presently developing S-500 which will be the definitive Russian BMD for years to come.the latest S-400 variants are also very capable and offer a wide range of missiles for various specific threats and is the least expensive of the trio.

GSAT-7 with its multi-spectral payload can provide early warning cues to the IADS for the efffective neutralistion of such threats.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOKER: 120mm & 125mm long-rod KE penetrators made only of tungsten alloy, not DU. Some have been imported while the bulk of the rest is being made by OFB & are DRDO-developed.

To VAMSHI AL: HAL will not develop any such helicopters since the time to do so has long elapsed & therefore Mi-17V-5s are being imported for the IAF while the IN too is looking at imported options.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: According to the Al-Hadis (Holy Prophet’s teachings, explanations & revelations), it is said that Singh will be rescued by India while India will be rescued by China.

To SUBIR: 1) The rest are held was war-wastage reserves & are also meant for spares cannibalisation. 2) MiG-27Ms are due for decommissioning in 2017. 3) R-29B-300 turbofan’s product support is no longer available from Russia. Who’s going to take care of that??? 4) MiG-21M. 6) Series 3 features FOD-resistant turbine blades. 7) Already begun. First BRD 11-upgraded MiG-29UPG will roll out in 2015. 8) Nope. 9) BrahMos-1 is already available & there’s no need for containerised Klub-K.

To ARUP: Roughly the same. SAR mode with GMTI is available on RBE-2. No of T/RE modules are never disclosed by any OEM. Spear has not been ordered by IAF. About 150 KEPD-350 Taurus CALCMs will be procured. MiG-21M & MiG-27M will be decommissioned by 2017. MiG-21 Bison & MiG-27UPG by 2019. SFF has never conducted any long-range recce ops deep within enemy territory since 1971. You can’t compare brand-new air bases in UAE with those of the IAF. The latter’s air bases were all either built during WW-2 or in the 1960s.

To SANGOS: Just look at the maps I had posted two threads ago showing the PRC’s highway & railroad infrastructure within TAR & you’ll find your answers.

To Anon@3.37PM: Already done that two threads ago. It’s all self-explanatory.

To Anon@11.40PM: How does one define an officer? Fully commissioned, JCOs, NCOs? Without such a detailed breakdown, the term ‘officer’ cannot be properly defined & officer-to-soldier ratio cannot be accurately determined.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JAY BHANUSHALI: VMT. Detailed application/selection criteria is openly available from each of the three armed services’ official websites.

To Anon@9.17AM: The deal wasn’t inked in 2010. Only an MoU was inked. Final contract & industrial partnerships are still under negotiations.

To ABHISHEK DHAR: No, T-90AM or T-90MS so far. Only the T-90S is there & now HVF is ramping up to upgrade the first 310 T-90S into the T-90M standard. So far, about 800 T-90S are in service. T-90M details were clearly explained last year in a thread posted after April 2012. No Relikt ERA or 2A46M-5 for T-90S.

To Anon@6.27PM: These are regular occurances involving foot-patrols & are resolved within a matter of hours.

To ABS: Pro-active strategy applies to both the western & northern fronts. However, their application will take different routes. In the west, the operational art calls for the IA launching a diversionary attack with two armoured divisions in the Thar/Cholistan deserts to draw down Pakistan Army’s strategic reserves, while the main offensive attack will be launched by one armoured division & several integrated combat brigades from Jammu & northern Punjab through the Shakargarh Bulge within the ‘working boundary’ that lies between the international boundary & the LoC. Against China, it will be a re-enactment of OP Vijay of 1999, i.e. classic mountain warfare involving massed field artillery fire-assaults that will heavily favour India since India is on high ground in Ladakh, Sikkim & AP, while the PLA will be on far lower ground in the Tibetan Plateau. Consequently, against China, it will be field artillery & rocket artillery that will be the decisive tools of choice for the IA. NLOS-BSMs like Prahaar & TBMs like Shaurya will have very little usage & will be of no utility. It is far better to employ the Prithvi-3 NLOS-BSM & BrahMos-1 Block-3 NLOS-BSMs, along with conventionally armed Nirbhay ALCMs. Lastly, vertical envelopment tactics will greatly favour the IA PROVIDED the IA succeeds in establishing a chain of forward operating & rear-area logistics helicopter bases in Ladakh, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim & AP within the next five years. This will to a large extent reduce the IA’s dependence on lateral roadways & railways. In conclusion, what the IA needs to do urgently is expand the capabilities & capacities of its Army Aviation Corps by inducting the Rudra in large numbers (at least 180), work out synergies with the IAF for aerial logistics support through at least 60 Mi-17V-5s & 40 CH-47Fs, & induct up to 280 LW-155 ultralightweight howitzers along with some 400 Prithvi-3s & an equal number of BrahMos-1 Block-3s.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To APPU: 1) It will definitely be worthwhile if the C-130J is selected, instead of a brand-new model. If the IAF ends up operating up to 70 units of the C-130J family, then it will be economical to set up a local MRO facility that will also be able to cater to third-party MRO contracts emanating from Sri Lanka & the US armed forces within the IOR. If the C-130J is not selected, then I’m afraid the private-sector will not find this 56-aircraft contract too appealing & the IAF will be forced to send its existing C-130J-30s abroad for periodic checks & depot-level MRO support, most probably to Singapore. 2) Not before 2016. 3) For 4th generation ATGMs, dual-mode & tri-mode seekers are the norm.

To FARIS: EUCs are reqd for any & all military items as well as for civilian dual-used items. That chap SYDNEY FRANKLIN is the agent in Malaysia for Avibras as well as for the Vera-E passive surveillance system. His office is at the service apartment located bang opposite the Surya KLCC & Oriental Hotel just off Jalan Ampang. Irregardless of which political party of coalition wins any general election, the internal law enforcement agencies & armed forces always stay the same & have constant reqmts that have to be met. Therefore, procurements will continue, albeit minus the big-ticket items for the RMAF & Malaysian Army. But the RMN’s force modernisation will continue unabated & without any hindrance, given the prevailing situation in the South China Sea.

To WMGFAN: Stay away from such sites, since in any case they’re full of crappy stories.

Subir said...

Sir, Thanx a lot for answering.

1.Isnt there any TTSL improvement in ser3 engines over series 1?

2.Has IAF started cannibalistion of MiG-27M for spares supply? Does MiG-27M have chaff and flare dispensers?

3.You have previously said 11 BRD has a targetted upgradation rate of 12 MiG-29 acs per annum. Upgradation process has already begun. Then why will the first upgraded MiG=29 roll out in 2015.

4.Armee de air which has less no of combat acs than IAF and which doesnt face any immediate threats has ordered 800 Storm Shadows. With our growing multi-role fleet growing in nos , IAF is going to buy just 150 KEPD-350.

5.When are you going to post a new thread? Pls enlighten us with the knowledge you gained in Firepower 2013 seminar and pls give updates on IA's field artillery modernisation program. bmd program,Tejas,Arihant class.

6.Cant the existing airbases be rebuild and new HAS and other facilties established?

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da , sorry to sound so dumb but will you please explain if it is not much of a trouble as to which Singh is rescued by India and why does China rescue India .

Thanks again.


abs said...

1)Is it true that the Chinese have built a 5km road inside India's perception of the LAC? If so do we have the guts to go 20 km inside Chinese territory and set up tents till they abandon the road?
2)IA should not have dismantled the observation post at Chumar. This kind of attitude lets China expand her claim lines without firing a single shot.
3)If there are agreed levels of force freezing. Then would that mean,
a)India would not be able to establish troops in any forward position (over and above the existing forward positions and observation posts).
or is it b?
b)India would not be able to, lets assume, raise a division/brigade by new accretions or restructuring even if they were to be based in say Panagarh or Siliguri or Gangtok?

4)Both a and b would not be in India's interests.For egs if its b) then China would be able to mass greater numbers of troops in shorter amount of time to overwhelm the IA's forward deployed troops. and if its a) then given how frequently China resorts to change its perception of the LAC, any given day any position along the entire LAC could become of interest to China while IA would not be able to set up observation posts to have a look at the chinese movements.

rjdp said...

Prasun da ..what is the strategy behind the acquisition of US-2 seaplane.. is it a AWACS platform to serve the AC battle group or just search and rescue. thx

Anonymous said...

has the rfi been sent to Locheed martin regarding for 56 ac for the avro replacement ???

sir everywhere it is written this avro replacement programmme requires only 5.5 ton category ac so how come c130j is in the picture in very first place ???

Anonymous said...

sir ,
i'm anon at 11:40pm on 25 may..
u replied to ques on 27th may 10:34am..i would like to add that the "officers" in my original comment meant fully commisioned officers in armies , navies of the said countries..and not JCOs NCOs or warrant officers..any no. mentioned only includes FULLY COMMSIONED OFFICERS..
i hope u now share your in depth viewa..

Anonymous said...

Sir, Initial MiG-29 had two flares launchers with a total capacity of 60 flares. These flare launchers were loacated at the leading edge of the tail fins.Didnt MiG-29 had any chaff launchers?
How many flare cartidges do the MiG-29K carry? Does Russia produce and export multi spectral flares and are they in service with Indian MiG-29.
What is the military significance of Thanjavur airbase?During any hostilties, are fighter acs moved from frontline bases to air bases deep within the country so that they remain out of reach of hostile cruise missile threats?Is this practice still relavant?
If US-2 amphibians are bought can they be armed and used as anti surface warfare platform.
Can MIg-29K used as Super hornets to launch precision standoff attacks using cruise missiles against high value targets?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Oops!!! My mistake….it should be SINDH & not Singh. Apologies once again.

To SUBIR: 1) TTSL stays the same. 2) Cannibalisation began in the 1990s itself. MiG-27Ms have countermeasures dispensers. 3) It takes a long time to train a skilled workforce type-rated on a particular aircraft-type. 4) Once can’t compare apples with oranges. 6) Thay can be expanded & underground hangars can easily be built.

To RJDP: SS-3, not US-2. They’re meant solely for SAR and anti-piracy operations. They can easily be armed AFTER they’re delivered to the IN.

To Anon@5.59PM: Of course it was. All ‘desi’ newspapers reported it. C-130J was always in the picture & every Lockheed Martin sales & mktg executive since 2009 has been talking about it in the show dailies published since Aero India 2009.

Sangos said...

}"o SANGOS: Just look at the maps I had posted two threads ago showing the PRC’s highway & railroad infrastructure within TAR & you’ll find your answers.
10:34 AM"

Okay so we have to target the Rail $ Road infrastructure in TAR with an effective offensive strike capability posture from the LAC. Right? And that will happen when we have the strike corps boots all armed with the firepower to takeover TAR. So that will take the fire out the dragon at our borders?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANGOS: Road & rail infrastructure inside TAR can easily & optimally be targetted & taken out of action via sustained offensive airpower projection within a limited timeframe, such as precision air-strikes using tactical CALCMs & NLOS-BSMs like Prithvi-3 & BrahMos-1 Block-3. One doesn't require a Mountain Strike Corps for such surgical operations. Boots on the ground are required ONLY IF the intent is to seize & hold on to a piece of enemy territory, which to me will be a very very bad idea.

Do read this:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@6.25PM: MiG-29 originally 48 countermeasures cartridges. And they were never all-flares, but a mix of chaff & flare. All-flare configuration is used only during aerobatic demos during air shows. MiG-29K also carries 48 cartridges. IAF & IN use cartridges made by UK-based Chemring. Dispersed deployments of IAF assets are still the norm. SS-3s cannot be used for anti-surface warfare. MiG-29K can definitely be armed with CALCMs like Kh-58T, 3M54E or even the 700km-range conven tionally armed Nirbhay LACM.

To ABS: The PLA’s Construction Corps has built not one, but seven such roads throughout the LAC & of these 3 are in Ladakh. They were all built by 2010. This is nothing new & only the ‘desi lifafa’ journalists are discoveriong it only now. Mutually agreed freezing of force-levels does not mean the same as freezing of deployment patterns or freezing of infrastructure development projects. I thought I had made this clear two threads ago. said...

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