HI prasun My fears of the pakfa fighter not up to the mark is comming true as the IAF seems tobe disenchanted by the performance figures. Is it true . Or is thre something more to it. What is he make of the missile warning system and counter measures in the awacs pic posted.
To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI, RAD & ANUP: This is yet another classic example of a ‘desi’ news-reporter engaging in needless theatrics aimed at converting a non-story into a story. This same news-reporter had stated in his blog in 2011 if I remember correctly that “I know all about the FGFA’s shortcomings & it isn’t what it’s being made out to be” at a time when he was busy touting the capabilities of the F-35 JSF. And therein lies the catch. What he has done this time is to latch on to certain facts of 2011/2012 & then mix them up with dates like December 24, 2013 & January 15, 2014 & lo-and-behold(!), a new story gets fabricated that in reality is two years old. Classic ‘desi’ yellow journalism at its best. The two meetings of December 24 & January 15 were just meant for ‘stock-taking’ & ‘progress reviewing’ for an R & D programme that is still underway & consequently, there’s no question of ‘about-turn’—stunning or otherwise. Meanwhile, here are the undeniable facts that came out during the MAKS-2013 expo:
1) The IAF is aghast that HAL has proposed "surrendering 30% of its 50% work-share" in jointly developing the FGFA with Russia.
2) While the AL-31FP is rated at 123kN, the FGFA prototypes are all using 'Izdelie-117S' turbofans designated as AL-41F-1A & rated at 147kN. These will be replaced by this year-end by a turbofan that’s 25% more powerful & will generate 153kN. This will be the definitive supercruising powerplant for the FGFA & it will be known as the AL-41FU.
3) Distributed-array AESA-MMR panels were showcased during MAKS-2013 & will be common to both the FGFA and T-50 PAK-FA. Consequently, the issue of the Russian Air Force requiring or specifying an AESA-MMR using only a frontal-oriented single-antenna does not even arise.
4) The plan till 2012 was that India would begin inducting the FGFA from 2022 onwards, with the IAF experimental test-pilots from ASTE getting three FGFA prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for R & D and flight-trials. That plan remains valid till this day.
In conclusion, there’s no need at all to get worked up by yet another instance of classic ‘desi’ yellow journalism from an entity who unabashedly professes more faith in imported readymade solutions like the F-35 JSF.
Engaging in Russia-bashing is fine, PROVIDED one does so with undeniable facts & compelling arguments, instead of spitting out convoluted concoctions.
If india are going to pay $6B and still not have access to high end tech, whats the point of this joint venture?
Would hal/drdo/iaf not be able to do a better job developing their own 5th gen from scratch in-house with this money? Afterall indians are much cheaper than russians and the money will go so much further.
To AK: What’s the problem? Elementary: it’s all about financial resource constraints in fiscal year 2013. 1) There are no hurdles whatsoever about ToT. 2) HAL & BEL can both digest it, but not within the specified timeframe. That’s why I had already stated in the previous thread that from the time a TPE331 turboprop engine enters HAL’s workshop for servicing, it takes 11 months to be serviced because HAL has to apply for various import approvals for spares from the MoD & this entire bureaucratic process consumes precious time. In contrast, my very own MRO facility churns out fully overhauled TPE331s or PT6As within 45 days with ease. 3) Because Dassault Aviation does not want to be sued for product liability, plain & simple. If HAL is averse to implementing Dassault Aviation-specified QA/QC standards, then how can Dassault Aviation be held responsible for a manufacturing defect that causes a fatal air-crash? In addition, if anyone wants to tinker with aircraft design without the OEM’s involvement, such as using indigenously-developed drag-chutes that have not been certified by the aircraft’s OEM, then the OEM cannot be held responsible for any performance deficiencies that the aircraft may exhibit when using such indigenously-developed products & if at all there’s a fatal accident, then the aircraft’s OEM is legally entitled to refuse to take part in accident investigations. This in turn will threaten to ground the entire fleet of the concerned aircraft, & the IAF will end up as the nett loser. 4) Because unlike HAL, RELIANCE can take the necessary corporate decisions regarding capital injections into new projects within a matter of hours, while HAL will require up to 1.5 years or more to secure similar approvals from the MoD. 5) Because the MoD wholly owns entities like HAL & BEL & therefore the MoD’s Dept of Defence Production & Supplies wants to protect such DPSUs at any cost, even at the cost of national security, from stiff competition posed by India’s private-sector military-industrial entities. 6) Everything was calculated & no stone was left unturned. All the artificial man-made hurdles have been posed by the Union Ministries of Finance & Home Affairs, just for the sake of buying time & for fiscal year 2013 to elapse. 7) None whatsoever, just as there wasn’t any when the SPG chose the AW-101 for VVIP transportation. 8) Answers to the previous seven points have done just that.
To RAW13: EMB-145I AEW & CS is still under development, since its S-band active phased-array antenna was never test-flown & its on-flight performance characteristics/parameters were never validated on board an airborne testbed. Consequently, the first two prototypes are being used now for such validations, especially those algorithms concerned with clutter management/clutter rejection. By 2016 all R & D hurdles will be overcome. Concerning the FGFA’s R & D costs, no official figures have been released as yet & therefore all other figures being quoted are just speculative. It takes more than 2 decades to develop a 5th-generation MRCA. By the time India’s homegrown 5th-generation MRCA emerges well after 2030, 6th-generation MRCAs would be in vogue. Hence the decision to join forces with Russia, which had initiated R & D work on a 5th-generation MRCA way back in the late 1980s.
Sir, 1)How doe IAF intend to use two platforms DRDO AEWACS and phalcon? 2)sir,what is the status of lr-sam and how capable is it against the ALCMs that pakistan navy possesses? 3)also let me report that the concerned jounalist,who has written about fgfa this time and supports import of F-35s has also written a story criticizing the iaf and supporting HALs BTA at the cost of PC-7 in the name of indiginous tech. 4)how long before we see export of indian warships?I mean larger ships not OPVs
To VIKRANT: 1) How? Just like others do: for airborne battle management, early warning, & air-traffic management. 2) LR-SAMs are never meant for use against ALCMs. SR-SAMs, SHORADS & E-SHORADS are. 3) Such self-styled journalists are classic ‘moronic eggheads’. It has always been a sheer pleasure for me to see since 1994 such ‘desi’ journalists during various aerospace/military expos attending only the MoD-organised press-conferences & availing of the daily free outpourings of mid-day meals & refreshments that are organised within the expos’ Press Centres by corporate sponsors like foreign OEMs , & hardly bothering to talk to the various OEMs (local & foreign) who are ever-willing to patiently answer most if not all queries. And almost all these ‘desi’ eggheads just spend time wandering like headless chickens only within & around the DRDO pavilion, never even bothering to engage in meaningful/coherent/cogent conversations with the assembled technocrats from the various DRDO labs. And at the end of it all, they shamelessly pronounce the expos as being ‘lacklustre’! So, what else can one expect from such bandalbaazis, nautanki wallahs & naatakarans? 4) At least another decade.
To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: How can anyone expect a realistic assessment of the average US citizen’s views on India when only a minute percentage of them have actually visited India? For, the average contented US citizen’s life revolves around NBL, American Baseball tournaments & NASCAR and consequently, he/she couldn’t care less about the rest of the world, leave alone India or even neighbouring Mexico.
Looks like the CBI is at long-last headed for the right direction. Had this been done much earlier, then there would have been no prima facie reason for prematurely terminating the AW-101 contract:
To REDDY: If I may be allowed to humour you, what is far more shameful is that an internal assessment done by the Indian Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) last December had discovered that major infrastructure projects worth Rs.14 lakh crore were mired in red-tape & among them were projects worth Rs.10 lakh crore whole files were adrift somewhere within the Ministry of Environment. After Jayanthi Natarajan resigned as Union Environment Minister on December 20, 349 files were sent back from her home & of these 180 were unsigned, while the remaining had been signed by her but were held back for unknown reasons. Of those that were signed, 28 files were with her since 2012 & two since 2011. No one can explain how so many files had piled up in her residence. Obviously this had nothing to do with compliance of environmental procedures/regulations, but an individual working practice. Since December 23, 2013, 70 projects worth Rs.1.5 lakh crore have since been cleared by M Veerappa Moily, who is now the Union Minister for Oil, Gas & Environment. The remainder of the backlog will hopefully be cleared by the end of this month.
1st thing i am happy that you have posted some pics about DRDO AEWC, i was a bit disappointed that you profiled a Chinese make in your last thread that had nothing to do with India. Like the AEWC if you can profile Shuarya, B05, Rudra and other indigenous efforts it will be good.
I have a few questions
1. That IAC2 will be nuke powered & EMALS equipped is certain, my calculation says the jet that will from it will be RAFALE M (40+ no) alongwith a few NLCA, as if heavy jets like N FGFA are to fly, the ship will have to be atleast 75k+ in weight
2. IAF wants to assemble pilatus BTAs at Sulur,TN why HAL wants to scuttle this when it cant deliver even LCA on time
3.IA will induct Dhanush 155 mm arent these the home built Bofors from ToT
1. Its bit difficult to understand what IA artillery division wants? One day we get news that IA wants to induct 'Catapult 130mm" SP gun. Next day, IA wants Dhanush 155mm but with 45 caliber only. What happened to standardisation? All 155mm, 52 cal regiments? Why is this khichdi going on? Any news on 52 cal gun barrel manufacture?
2. There is almost no news on naval LCA. It was grounded because of landing gear issues, then what happened? WHat happened to US navy collaboration for training IN pilots? Will NLCA fly again?
3.If at all HAL is insistent on making HTT-40, is it possible for it to install same engine, ejection seat,propeller and other stuff for the sake of simplicity in logistics? And when will this elusive HTT-40 be battle ready?
4. Why does IAF insist on making PC-7 MKII on its 5 BRD? There are n number of private aerospace manufacturers like Mahindra, Taneja, TATA, even Reliance, who would be more than happy to open a manufacturing plant for more than 100 trainers. So why not give them a opening?
5. With the rate of production of HAL, it will take 25-50 years for IAF to get about 200 - 400 LCA fighters. Is there a possibility (even for the next incoming government) to invite the private sector to open a alternate production line for quicker LCA induction?
6. Finally, any news on the 190MW PWR for INS Vishal or nuke subs?
Hi Prasun There are reports that Israel has already installed the Barak-8 missile system in its SAAR class corvetts already. Has it been proven or is it a knee jerk reaction to possible threats.What are these dolts doing here.? Why is the S band chosen for the awacs when the world ver it is L and. Is it that we are integrating SAR as well.?
The writer here states - " The official disclosed that many new defence deals would come up between India and Russia later this year but declined to give specific details."
Dear Prasunda, i just read an article about AAP and CIA link... this is the link to that article " http://greatgameindia.wordpress.com/2013/12/09/cias-trojan-horse-enters-the-heart-of-india/"
am seeig this blog for the first time. seems very bold and bright.. I like it and support it by spreading the content of that blog.. and blogs presence...
prasun, Dassault is averse to HAL is that it is afraid that 1. HAL will absorb its technology and implement it for its future programs. it is not the same if it is reliance. Dassault has no control over HAL!! 2. it doesn't want to part engine tech to HAL for the same reason 3.it doesn't want to part with its AESA technology because HAL will use it for its home grown products.JMT
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has done a stunning about-turn, sharply criticising the showpiece Indo-Russian project to co-develop a futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). The Indian Air Force (IAF) has done a stunning about-turn, sharply criticising the showpiece Indo-Russian project to co-develop a futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Even as New Delhi and Moscow finalise a $6 billion deal to co-develop an FGFA with capabilities tailor-made for India, the IAF has alleged the Russians would be unable to meet their promises about its performance.
Business Standard has reviewed the minutes of that meeting. The IAF's three top objections to the FGFA were: (a) The Russians are reluctant to share critical design information with India; (b) The fighter's current AL-41F1 engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines; and (c) It is too expensive. With India paying $6 billion to co-develop the FGFA, "a large percentage of IAF's capital budget will be locked up."
http://defencelover.in/2013/09/24/two-attempts-raw-made-on-the-life-of-dawood-but-govt-balked-it-at-last-minute/ Are any of the facts mentioned in this true?
To REDDY: That’s because the S-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 boats will in essence be more SSGNs than SSBNs. The definitive SSBNs of the IN will be the S-5/S-6/S-7 boats each displacing more than 15,000 tonnes. Anyway, word from today’s seminar on night-vision seminar is that the IA will go for across-the-board introduction of Gen-3 NVGs only during the 13 Defence Plan (2018-2023). Until then, only one in every four infantrymen will have access to such NVGs.
To RAJ: You meant directed-energy weapons? The DRDO is already developing the so-called E-Bomb—meant for generating EMPs over a tactical battle area. As for the future, high-power lasers will definitely be the close-in air-defence weapon of choice for both ground forces & naval forces & some R & D in these areas is already well underway.
To SIDDHARTH: The OFB-developed ‘Dhanush’ will have a 155mm/45-calibre barrel, will be able to fire more rounds per minute than is now possible with the FH-77B, & will also be equipped with a muzzle velocity radar, BEL-assembled ELBIT Systems’ fire-control computer & its AMLCD display panel, an autonomous land navigation system using Sigma-30 RLG-INS & its AMLCD display, electronic drive unit, IRDE-developed direct aiming sight, BEL-developed VHF communications system, & a BEL-developed ‘Shakti’ ACCCS interface box. However, when it comes to new-generation land-mobile meteorological radars, neither the DRDO nor BEL has been able to come up with any innovative solutions, for very mysterious reasons. Without such radars, accurate field artillery fire-assault direction is an impossibility. The Pinaka Mk1 MBRLs are presently meteorological radars imported from Brazil’s AVIBRAS. Wonder why neither BEL nor the DRDO ever bothered to develop such radars.
To ANUP: ‘Dhanush’ is the OFB-developed 155X45 towed howitzer whose design was derived from the Bofors FH-77B. DRDO never developed the ‘Dhanush’. DRDO is developing the ATAGS 155mm/52-cal towed howitzer under a totally different project. Swathi WLR is ready for series-production by BEL to meet the IA’s reqmt for 42 such WLRs. But since ‘Saint’ Antony has not yet been able to solve the problems associated with the procurement of BEML/TATRA trucks, production orders for Swathi have not yet been placed by the IA with BEL, since non-availabilty of a suitable motorised TEL means that the ‘Swathi’ cannot be mounted on any vehicle as of now, even though it had successfully passed user-evaluations as far back as late 2012!!!
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: You mean to say that if a neighbour that shares a common frontier/border with India procures a major weapon system, it has nothing to do with India??? What kind of spectacularly convoluted reasoning is that??? It’s beyond me for sure. Have already profiled the ‘Rudra’ way back several times. 1) Not necessarily. Even 65,000 tonnes will suffice. 2) Because HAL wants to inflate the financial quantum of its order-books at a time when its annual import bill for components for products like Tejas Mk1, Rudra, LCH & in future the Super Su-30MKI & LUH is steadily rising. Quite elementary, really. 3) The ‘Dhanush’ is the upgraded FH-77B featuring enhancements that I have already listed above in a previous reply.
To AK: Of course it isn’t. But one sure gets the impression that it is, thanks to the tendency of such ‘desi’ journalists to overlook the details & oversimplify matters. On the HTT-40 BTT that was displayed at Aero India 2013, all the AMLCD-based cockpit displays & instrumentation were from ELBIT Systems, while HAL officials confirmed to me that the engine & gearbox will be from Pratt & Whitney Canada, propellers will come from Hamilton Standard, & several other accessories & hydraulic components & ejection seats will be outsourced from Italian & other European OEMs. Consequently, HAL will build only the airframe, tricycle undercarriage, comms radios, standby AHRS & altimeter, accounting for less than 40% of indigenous content. By proposing something preposterous—that the IAF operate a mixed fleet of PC-7 Mk2 & HTT-40 BTT—what HAL is saying is that a person, for his own daily commuting reqmts, purchase two different models of sedans (like a TATA Nano & a Maruti/Suzuki Swift) & use one of them for the first fortnight of every month & the other sedan for the remainder of the month! That’s how convoluted HAL’s argument is from both financial & operational angles. In this day & age when financial resources are precious & scarce for military force-modernisation, no one in their right mind will support HAL’s POV regarding the HTT-40. And that’s also the reason why the MoD has refused to consider imported solutions for the IA’s/IAF’s combined reqmt for LUH/RSH & is instead to wait it out for the HAL-developed LUH to emerge.
To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: 1) No one from the IA wants the 130mm Catapult to be mounted atop the Arjun’s hull. The existing Catapults are good to go till 2030 & the IA does not want them to be tinkered with. The 155mm/45-cal ‘Dhanush’ is an interim solution & hence only 414 have been ordered from OFB. Likewise, some 600 existing M-46s will be upgunned from 130mm to 155mm/45-calibre & this will be followed by the arrival by 2020 of the DRDO-developed 155mm/52-cal ATAGS. 2) LCA (Navy) Mk1’s landing gear is being redesigned & re-engineered by EADS/Cassidian & some ex-US Navy aviation consultants too have been roped in for their guidance. Once this has been fulfilled, then a full-scale LCA (Navy) Mk1 will have to be subjected to stringent fatigue-tests (including hauling it up to an altitude of 6 feet & then letting it go fall to the surface) before work begins on fabricating the LSP-series LCA (Navy) Mk1s. All this is a time-consuming process. 3) Even if there’s maximum commonality between the PC-7 Mk2 & HTT-40, how does one justify all the non-recurring R & D expenditure for making the HTT-40 flightworthy? Where’s the value-addedness? Will it ever be able to compete with the likes of the KT-1? Procuring the HTT-40 would have made perfect sense had the PC-7 Mk2s not been procured. But since the PC-7 Mk2s are here to stay with the IAF, one cannot put two tigers inside a single cage. 4) That’s a good question for the MoD to answer. Licenced-assembly contract for the PC-7 Mk2s & their through-life product support contract should have been awarded to an Indian OEM through a competitive tendering process. 5) Of course such options are always there on the table. But it takes a lot of guts, audacity & vision for a Raksha Mantra to take such far-reaching & well-meaning decisions & systemic reforms. Whether India can produce such a RM in future remains to be seen. 6) Not so soon.
To GESSLER: Pre-planned product improvement is a continuous process & the 176kN variant of the AL-41FU will definitely emerge within a decade. But that does not mean that one halts all flight-test/flight-certification activity on the FGFA until the arrival of the 176kN variant of the AL-41FU. Hence, use will be made of the 153kN-thrust variant of the AL-41FU for the FGFA’s flight-test/flight-certification activities, which will get underway from next year.
To RAD: That’s true. Problems were NEVER with the Barak-8 missile round, but were concerned with the fire-control aspects of the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR. Configuration of this multi-mode APAR for Project 15A DDGs is quite different from that meant for the Sa’ar corvettes & hence the systems validation challenges are totally different. Even the Ericsson-developed active phased-array radar for the Saab 340/Saab 2000 AEW & C platforms functions in S-band. IAI/ELTA’s G-550 AEW & CS uses both L-band & S-band active phased-array radars.
To VIKRAM GUHA: There are quite a few, like ordering Batch 3 of Project 1135.6 FFGs, ordering some 350 T-90AM medium battle tanks, official launch of the Super Su-30MKI upgrade project, ordering some Russia-origin sub-systems for the projected IAC-2 aircraft carrier, Project 15B DDGs & Project 17A FFGs, and service-life extension of the eight existing Type 877EKM SSKs.
To Anon@5.25PM: Why always single out the CIA? Why not the external intelligence agencies of Russia, the UK, France, Germany or even China? Why this never-ending obsession with just the CIA & ISI?
To AERO: 1) Are you kidding? It’s like claiming that HAL has conceived the Tejas Mk1 MRCA’s final-assembly line by trying to replicate the final-assembly line of the Hawk Mk132! And what exactly is meant by ‘absorbing’ the technology? Can you elaborate by giving some concrete examples from other countries? 2) No one parts with technologies related to fabrication of a turbofan’s hot-sections. Not even Russia. 3) Mastering AESA-production technologies & sharing source-codes are the very easy parts. Evolving its fitment architecture & related environment control systems, & developing its applications algorithms are the principal technological challenges, which no foreign OEM will share. Consequently, everyone aspiring to develop AESA-MMRs as no other choice but to invest in both fundamental & applied R & D, which includes procuring turbofan-powered aircraft that can be modified as airborne test-beds—something the CABS has not yet done.
To THINK TANK: Had already replied to such a query in great detail yesterday.
To ABS: Not entirely true. The first attempt was made (as I had explained earlier in another thread) to intercept Dawood Ibrahim's business jet within Nepali airspace (during one of Dawood's several visits to Kathmandu where he owned some gambling casinos) & force it to land in either Kathmandu or in India. But this plan failed when the IAF's MiG-21s were scrambled too late & Dawood's business jets had by then entered Chinese airspace in TAR & was out-of-reach for the IAF.
The 2nd plan, on which the Bollywood flick 'D-DAY' is based, was to assassinate Dawood on July 23, 2005 at the Grand Hyatt Hotel in Dubai during the wedding ceremony of his daughter Mahrukh to Junaid Miandad. To make this plan work, two sharpshooters of the Cambodia-based Chhota Rajan gang--Farid Tanasha & Vicky Malhotra--were infiltrated into India in the first quarter of 2005 by the IB through 24 Parganas in West Bengal & they were sent to Delhi for final briefings on the assassination plan & collection of their IB-supplied passports (with fake identity), weapons & air-tickets. The former IB Director Ajit Doval (India’s only IPS officer to be awarded the military honour of Kirti Chakra) was made in-charge of remotely choreographing this entire ‘outsourced’ mission. But in what later became a classic fuck-up thanks to inter-agency turf wars, the presence of the two sharpshooters in Delhi became known to the sleuths of the Crime Branch of Mumbai Police, who then went to Delhi to arrest the sharpshooters. One evening just prior to their departure, when the two sharpshooters were being briefed by Doval in a ‘safehouse’, the Mumbai Crime Branch sleuths, who had been keeping the sharpshooters under constant surveillance, suddenly burst in & demanded to arrest the two of them. That’s how the secrecy behind this assassination plan was destroyed & the plan had to be abandoned since both the IB & Mumbai Crime Branch were unaware of each other’s moves & the Crime Branch sleuths subsequently arrested the two sharpshooters & hauled them back to Mumbai. If only the IB had taken the Mumbai Crime Branch into confidence, such a major embarrassment could well have been avoided & the assassination plan could have been put into effect.
Prasun sir, I read your previous replies and see that you have explained in short the conclusion of Where ROK was right and where India went wrong. Many thanks for the short conclusion. Could you also give a detailed article on it (the conclusion)? Also, reading previous articles i garner that public sector companies (along with the MOD) are responsible for gross inefficiencies as OEMs. But then, how do similar public sector companies such as BAE systems, EADS, Raytheon turn out to be extremely successful? Thanks
To MUTTU: The following steps are reqd to be taken to ensure effective & demonstrable strategic deterrence:
1) Officially declare India’s strategic deterrence posture, instead of clinging on to the ‘Draft Nuclear Doctrine’ of the late 1990s.
2) Create the post of a full-time Chief of Defence Staff & appoint the existing Chief of HQ Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) as the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff.
3) The Chief of Strategic Forces Command (SFC) should also command a Division-sized formation of infantrymen (thereby replacing the CISF personnel) whose only job should be to guard the various disassembled components of India’s nuclear warheads & their ballistic missile-based/manned aircraft delivery systems. This should be similar to the 18,000-strong Defence Security Corps raised by the Pakistan Army.
4) The Indian Army should raise its own Strategic Rocket Artillery Corps or SRAC (like the PLA’s 2nd Artillery Corps) that will be responsible for A) operating, maintaining & deploying the land-based IRBMs & ICBMs, & B) commanding, operating, maintaining, deploying & using BLOS-BSMs that are now distributed among three Missile Groups. The SRAC should also be equipped with land-mobile passive surveillance systems (PSS).
5) Expedite the S-5/S-6/S-7 SSBN production programme & launch a separate production line for no less than nine SSNs.
6) Establish a tri-services University for Strategic Rocket Artillery Engineering for imparting hands-on training to all personnel hailing from the three armed services who would be responsible for operating, maintaining, deploying & using ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, SLBMs & NLOS-BSMs. This institution should also be responsible for training strategic targeteers from all three armed services & should work closely with agencies like the NTRO.
7) The Indian Navy should set up its own integral University for Naval Reactor Physics & Engineering.
To Anon@12.38AM: BAE Systems, EADS & Raytheon are not public-sector firms. They’re publicly-listed military-industrial entities but are not govt-owned like the public-sector military-industrial entities of India are.
looks like off late there is a lot of misunderstanding between us. you said 'What kind of spectacularly convoluted reasoning is that???' if you had read the point raised by me carefully i meant that if only you had compared the purchase with Indian made systems and discussed advantage and short comings of both.
Also i will be glad to have write up on Dhanush 155, Prithvi3 NLOS, B05, aerostate and other radars.
BTW a few points
1. you said to #RajeevChaturvedi 414+600 155mm/45cal is only a interim solution and focus is on 155mm/52-cal ATAGS, then why waste money, effort on 155mm/45cal. Also if i remember you replied to me that focus in on 155mm/52-cal MGS. ATAGS &/or MGS which way will IA go? How many ATAGS &/or MGS will IA need.
2. to #VkiramGuha you said MoD will order some 350 T-90AM, i guess in CKD packsp; then the total T90 will touch 1000+. I remember you said IA will go for over 600 Arjun Mk1/2 and possibly another 600 Arjun mk3/FMBT, arent the total tank no. too many for limited wars
3. To #Muttu you said 'Officially declare India’s strategic deterrence posture' i believe that will have to wait till S5/6/7 roll out
I guess something is seriously wrong with Indian Navy. http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ins-vipul-hole-in-pillar-compartment-mumbai-naval-dockyard-indian-navy/1/339183.html
People have started questioning the tenure of Mr D K joshi. How come so many mishaps are happening, one after one? Naval platforms are being acquired by paying through nose and they are so careless with them???
Are we looking at some strong actions, given that Mr Joshi is going to stay for another 2 years? Or he would go Vishnu Bhagwat way?
This is almost sixth incident of its kind. Gates forced both heads of USAF after one major incident.
Prasun Sir, Thanks for elaborating about BAE systems and EADS being privately owned. I read the article on AJ Paulraj, thanks for the link. However could you explain this line in the article But by 1991, according to the now familiar narrative, bureaucratic battles began to take their toll, What were these bureaucratic battles? How did they manage to have such a profound effect on even the founding director of major labs? What should be done to rectify this mess?
Sir , 1)Isn't it amazing that we could produce Dhanush howitzer all these years as we had the blueprints but we are doing so now what is the reason? 2)when the barak 8 missile be put on ships like vikramaditya and kolkata? 3)could you share some details on INs SSN plans and sir how many lines of submarine production does IN intend to have?IS HSL alone sufficient for nuclear subs? 4)Will the entire Vikramaditya CBG be moved to karwar thus freeing up some space at Mumbai?and when would INS Viraat move to vizag?
What would be the effect of walmart coming to india? i want to concentrate on the ill effects it brings;
before that here are some benefits: streamlining the retail industry, right from fields/factories to the households/consumers.
ill effects: 1. they capture all the market where by kirana (grocery) shop guys lose their livelyhood.
2. they buy/rent farm land.
3. they import goods from all over the world.
4. they control prices.
5. they do not pay taxes citing various legal/business rules/ offshore entities/ FTAs etc.
6. they get involved in legal/ policy matters to remove food subsidies there by effectively control prices.
I would like to know your views please.
I would like to suggest some solutions:
india should form a consortium with farmers/ manufacturers/ packers/ transporters/ cold storage / distribution centers/ IT firms (for software for retail/POS/warehouse/stock management/banking/ etc)/ open markets/ retail shops/ banks etc
the whole eco system thus provide a complete package direct from farm/factory to consumer table through co-op channels.
to explain further, each stage adds value to the product rather trading. in this chain no one own the product but product moves from farm/factory through series of steps visibly processing/packaging/transport/cold storage/distribution centers/ retail market where co-op teams get a real estate for selling goods.
In this process banks should provide each of them considerable capital to get things move on..
once the product is sold to the consumer the value is distributed according to the contribution, right from the field/factory till the retail real estate.
I have posted something on Walmart In India few minutes back. I could not see my post here; what could be the reason? Have you deleted or google deleted based on Walmart keyword?
To RD: These are mere coincidences, do rest assured. And I sincerely hope that the era of damaging stop-gap acquisitions of the type witnessed in the 1980s does not stage a comeback. With the benefit of hindsight now we can, I guess, all agree that instead of upgrading the MiG-29B-12s & Mirage 2000Hs/THs, the MoD could well have initiated the M-MRCA competition by 2003, leading to a decision by 2005 & procurements from 2008. Had this happened, then by now the Rafale would already have been in service in fairly large numbers.
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: There will be no misunderstandings if matters are clearly spelt out. After all, one can never assume or understand what the other is insinuating or implying because we all can’t read each other’s minds. Therefore, it is best that one’s POV is clearly spelt out in a coherent manner. The Dhanush/155X45 was extensively described along with a photo as well early last year. 1) The ATAGS will be series-produced only towards the end of this decade & therefore there needs to be some interim solution to arrest the steadily declining numbers of FH-77Bs. Therefore, induction of up to 1,000 Dhanush 155mm/45-calibre towed howitzers is most welcome, along with some 700 upgunned 155mm/45-cal M-46s & the 145 LW-155 ultra-lightweight 155mm/39-cal howitzers. If the MGS (like Caesar) is procured quickly in the near future, the up to 2,000 Caesars should be procured. In my personal view, procurement of MGS in such large numbers will remove the need for less-capable towed howitzers like the ATAGS. 2) As per the IA’s present plans, up to 600 T-90AMs will be procured off-the-shelf & not in SKD or CKD form. Even if additional Arjun Mk1As, Mk2s & Mk3s are ordered, this will not translate into a large MBT fleet since more than 2,000 T-72s, 500 T-55s & 1,500 Vijayantas that are still in service require urgent replacement. 3) No need to wait that long.
To RAJ: It’s the IN’s fault all right, but not that of its present-day CNS Admiral D K Joshi. In fact, I had predicted way back in 2001 that such incidents will happen on an increasing scale, especially after the decision was taken by the Govt of India immediately after 26/11 to make the IN overall in-charge of both coastal & maritime security domains. Consequently, increased & over-usage of warships for long-durations on patrol causes increased wear-and-tear & this results in such warships requiring to undergo their periodic refits/overhauls in increasing frequencies & all this in turn leads to an increase in workload of the skilled human resources employed at various naval dockyards throughout India. This is exactly what is now happening. The IN being a warfighting force should NEVER have been entrusted with the task of ensuring coastal security. Its principal & only domain should have been kept limited to the provision of maritime security. For providing coastal security, the ICGS should have been expanded & re-equipped on a war-footing after 26/11. This, as we all know, never happened. Till this day, the ICGS does not have even a single dedicated cadet training ship or a shore-based training academy. Instead, one of the Vikram-class OPVs serves as a training vessel, which means one operational OPV less for operational deployment.
To Anon@4.58PM: Bureaucratic battles within the MoD between the DRDO & the various DPSUs all for the sake of garnering the severely depleted financial resources that the Govt of India had made available for R & D after the financial crisis of 1990. It is because of this crisis that R & D work on all major DRDO-initiated projects at that time almost came to a standstill. Among the projects that was hit hardest was that of HAL to develop the HTT-35 BTT. The HTT-35’s full-scale mock-up was last seen in 1994 & after that it disappeared only-god-knows-where. Had that project been allowed to make progress, then today the IAF would already been flying the HAL-developed-and-built HTT-35 BTT & there would have been no need to import any PC-7 Mk2s & ‘desi’ journalists like that Shukla fella would not have had any axe to grind WRT HTT-40. Incidentally, I was the only one to unveil or rediscover the existence of the HTT-35 BTT project way back in 2009 in my earlier blog & had even posted its photos, while all other bloggers & ‘desi’ journalists were either fast asleep or had developed mass amnesia or were too darn lazy to do some background research of their own.
To RAJESH DESWAL: Prototypes of the airworthy version of the Kaveri turbofan are now being fabricated. Three units in all. One of them will be flown on board an IL-76MD airborne testbed by 2016 & following that, based on the test-points obtained, it will be decided whether or not to re-engine a Tejas Mk1 PV with this turbofan for a limited-objective flight-test regime.
To VIKRANT: 1) Well….amazing to some, stupidity to others. I have been saying since 2004 that in-country production of both FH-77Bs & Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs was very much possible since Indian military-industrial entities like OFB & MDL had all the necessary technical documentation & their IPRs required for such an industrial effort. As to why this wasn’t tried out, the only logical explanation is that the decision-makers at MoD, especially within the Dept of Defence Production & Supplies, had all been striken by a bout of collective amnesia! 2) It’s already meant to be there on board INS Kolkata. It can also go on board any other warship, INS Vikramaditya included. 3) Already done that several times before. 4) No. INS Kadamba is only a temporary base for this aircraft carrier & INS Vikramaditya will start making use of the naval base in Mumbai AFTER the INS Vikrant moves out from Ballard Pier for scrapping. Like all other warships, INS Vikramaditya too needs to undergo periodic refits/overhauls & the only available drydocks that are big enough to accommodate the INS Vikramaditya are available in only Mumbai & Cochin.
To MESSENGER@9.27PM: Your earlier comment had gone straight to the Spam folder for reasons unknown to me.
Can you give us details about ( supposed ) detection range of Indian DRDO & Phalcon AWACS ? And where do they stand in comparison to Pakistan ( Sweden ), Chinese, Russian & US systems ?
Prasun sir, Thanks for explanation regarding the bureaucratic battles. It's now seems clear why everyone is clamoring that the DPSUs should be privatized. I guess the reason being that they would be able to better manage their revenue, and be less dependent upon the meager funds from the MOD. The surplus funds could then help DRDO instead. Am i right?
Also what should the Indian private industries be doing to alleviate the current situation? Or are they only helpless spectators?
What are the secrets of the Kanchan Armour?M1Abrahms have depleted uranium Armour,How can it be defeated? How do you find the current configuration of Arjun MK2 " https://imageshack.com/i/1a9ihsj".Can it be made equivalent to M1Abrahms.
1.The 1st 20 Tejas mk1 will be built to IOC standards.In IOC the cannon hasnt been integrated.So will the 1st 20 Tejas have no Gsh-23 cannon armament ?
2.Sometime ago DAC cleared the procurement of around 220 T-90 for the proposed independent armoured brigades to be based in NE and in Ladakh. When did Mod cleared the rest of the 350 T-90AM as you had said ?
3.Havent all Vijayantas that were in reserve phased out of service ?
4.Has IN HQ selected the heavy weight torpedo for arming Kolkata class,Shivalik class and the upcoming P-15B and P-17A ? When will this new torpedo be ordered?It seems that when INS Kolkata and the 2nd ship of this class will be commissioned into IN they will be devoid of their torpedo armament if the orders arent placed soon .
5.Why didnt IN place orders for atleast 2 more or 3 Arihant class SSGN? Any SSN procurement and their entry into service will take another 6 years in the very minimum. Instead some more Arihant class could be ordered as a stopgap measure.Since the Arihant production line has picked up speed the subsequent vessels will be delivered in a shorter period of time.
The same could have been done with Kolkata class DDG.Another 2-3 could have been ordered. Ordering just 3 vessel of any class doesnt make any particular sense.
6.There were plans for subjecting the 1st 330 T-90S to deep upgrades and bring them to AM standards.What about it ? And are there plans of upgrading the Bhisma fleet to AM standards.
7.Drdo has been launching one after other Agni and Prthvi series of missiles. But it is absolutely mum about PDV 1st test launch.Has the BMD phase 2 project gone into hibernation ? Or has there been any launches away from the public eye and it ended in a failure ?
8.How many KS-1A launchers and missile rounds did Myanmer army order?
Prasunda, MoD has barred Finmeccania from participating in Defexpo-2014 as reported by TOI.Also,recent clearance to procure 98 Black Shark torpedo from WASS is put on hold.Another major blow to modernisation of Indian Armed Forces.
I also do not think that India can get anything worthwhile out of the ToT in Rafale deal. So India should drop that and also such other portions with corresponding reduction in the payments and purchase these off the shelf to control the otherwise negative consequences. For any R&D expertise that is required they shall concentrate on the oncoming FGFA or the AMCA if any.
Also, the Govt of India has lodged a protest with Islamabad for an 'incident' during which the Pakistan Navy's PNS Shah Jehan FFG came dangerously close to the IN flotilla that was escorting INS Vikramaditya in the Arabian Sea.
Meanwhile, the IN's MiG-29Ks have already commenced flying 'bolters' over the top-deck of INS Vikramaditya & by the end of next month, Dr MMS will spend a day-at-sea on board this vessel.
Lastly, A K 'Saint' Antony has constituted yet another committee to suggest which entity--HAL or a private-sector--should be the preferred choice for teaming up with Japan's Shin Maywa Corp for licence-assembling the SS-3 amphibian.
Will all due respect to C Raja Mohan and other such "Analysts" who write in national newspapers predicting that there could be military skirmish between Japan & China tend to forget that bilateral trade between Japan & China is worth $350 billion annually .
Why on earth would two mature countries decide to destroy this flourishing trade relation by going to war ?
China may attack Phillipines and the US will be able to do NOTHING about it .
But to think of a military confrontation between Japan & China is basically mental mustarbation.
sir, 1)Is the 'incident' with PNS Shah Jahan anything like the nato snooping? 2)sir a video link on northeast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCt87g_AFX4 a talk by GK pillai ex-Secretary MHA.Do share your thoughts. 3)What do you make of the attempt of the luyten's delhi elite and intellectuals effort to get anybody as PM but modi?Do you think they will succeed? Regards
You've been very critical of DPSUs. How do you explain the successful state owned Chinese PSUs which are giving world renowned MNCs a run for their money? Don't you think that our DRDO, HAL etc. should be modelled (which actually they are) along the lines of NORINCO? Why is the Govt so desperate to rope in extremely corrupt Pvt Cos in defense particularly when they've nothing to contribute expect as another middlemen? And I would request you not to delete my post as they are not abusive but raise a critical question.
In your post, you picked holes in China's DF-21D ASBM threat. You argued that China needs 130+ satellites for effective targeting an aircraft carrier battle group. The link is:
Now what you have to say? Seems those Professors sound more convincing than your half-baked, ill-informed, pseudo-technical and constantly shifting opinion?
Will you accept that you were wrong, will any Indian ever do that except dishing out jingoism???
Chinese people create big things but always be modest, we follow Deng Xiaoping's advice. Indians can't even make rifles or artillery guns, but compete in building stealth aircraft and nuclear submarines. They fail miserably but not in bragging all time!!!
1. INS Vikrant (New)? What is causing the delay or the work is in full progress?
2. LPH contract? When will they open the bids?
3. AVRO replacement? Will India still go ahead with LM/Tata Offer for C-130 production in India?
4. Project 75I subs? Any clarity yet what Navy wants?
5. It seems India is discussing the domestic production contract of US-2 aircraft of Japan. Is it true?
6. DAE secretary mentioned that nuclear energy from kudankulam was going to be available for 3.5 to 4 rupee. While Areva is asking for 9 rupee per unit and Westinghouse for 12 rupee per unit. In comparison, Bhakhra Nangal gives electricity at about 40 paise per unit. Will India still import nuclear reactors? Why can't it enlarge existing indigenous 700 MW PHWR reactors into 1400MW or 1700 MW ones?
To THAKUR: Instrumented detection/tracking range envelopes for various AEW & CS platforms depend on their optimum cruising altitudes, which are no means uniform. Turbofan-powered platforms will cruise at a much higher altitude than turboprop-powered platforms & will therefore offer superior capabilities.
To Anon@8.16PM: All those will be answered when you post with a proper handle, instead of posting as ‘Anonymous’.
To AUTHOR: The secret lies in the armour composition, layer by layer, of different types of alloys & composites. The Arjun’s latest ‘avatar’ as shown by the DRDO exhibit during the RDP rehearsals is an attempt to make the MBT into a jack-of-all-trades by arming it with Lahat cannon-launched projectile & its optronic fire-control system, plus a heavy RCWS containing a 12.7mm MG that’s used mostly for anti-aircraft fire. Then there are the ERA tiles & TWMP. Left to me, I would have optimised the MBT design for taking on only hostile MBTs, & not attack helicopters of fixed-wing combat aircraft. Consequently, instead of the ERA tiles, I would have gone for composites-based appliqué armour fitments, done away with the LAHAT/CLGMs, retained the TWMP, chosen a lightweight RCWS (like what’s on board the T-90AM), chosen an avtive protection system for installation, & instead of the COAPS, would have installed the very same panoramic commander’s fight that has been co-developed by CVRDE & IRDE for retrofit on the IA’s existing T-90S MBTs. For combating the threat posed by attack helicopters, the IA’s MBT formations & units will in any case always be accompanied by LUHs & helicopter-gunships armed with Mistral ATAMs, so why equip the Arjun with LAHAT/CLGM & 12.7 anti-aircraft MG???
To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Cannon integration will take place by the SP-series MRCAs are ready for delivery. 2) 220 forms part of the 350-unit package. They’re not two separate procurements. 3) No way. They have enough life left in them to be operable till 2025, just like the 130mm SP Catapults are good to go till 2030. Up to 600 Vijayantas were retrofitted with MTU diesel-engines & RENK gearboxes between 1989 & 1994. 4) Not yet. The Black Shark is still competing against the SeaHake since the Varunastra has yet to be cleared for service-induction. 5) Three such vessels have been ordered: S-2, S-3 & S-4. 6) Not to AM standard, but to a standard devised by a team from the IA, CVRDE & IRDE. 7) There are still some R & D hurdles to be cleared for both the PDV & the target engagement algorithms of the LRTR. 8) 18 TELs each with two MR-SAMs + another 36 missile reloads.
To UJJWAL: That’s surely an idiotic move, to say the very least, since Finmeccanica is only a holding company & is not an OEM by any stretch of the imagination. In previous Aero India & DEFEXPO expos, OEMs like Selex-Galileo, WASS, Agusta-Westland & OTOBreda used to exhibit their products at Finmeccanica’s pavilion. Fincantieri & Elettonica SpA (also part of Finmeccanica) had their own separate booths, while Selex-Galileo also exhibited in a booth it shared with Data Patterns Pvt Ltd. Now, WASS, Selex-Galileo, AgustaWestland, OTOBreda & Fincantieri are now free to exhibit at their own booths, thereby doing away with the need to exhibit under Finmeccanica’s umbrella. Problem solved & a big egg on St A K Antony’s face!!!
To Mr.RA 13: Of course there will be ToT, but that ought to be in the arena of through-life MRO to ensure fleet serviceability, plus selective indigenisation of only those rotables, consumables, lubricants & additives which will be required in large numbers. But clamouting for ToT to build airframes, engines, hydraulics, & high-end avionics is a sheer waste of money.
To VIKRANT: 1) Something like that. 2) VMT for sharing that link. It only goes to underscore what I have stated several times before, i.e. Delhi has never comprehended the importance of these North-Eastern states & has therefore disregarded their sensitivities. In addition, efforts to convert these wandering tribals into settled communities were half-hearted. Also, had transportation infrastructure been vastly improved by the 1970s, this alone would have created enormous job opportunities for the locals there, in addition to ushering healthy & consistent GDP growth-rates in each of these states.
To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Cannon integration will take place by the SP-series MRCAs are ready for delivery. 2) 220 forms part of the 350-unit package. They’re not two separate procurements. 3) No way. They have enough life left in them to be operable till 2025, just like the 130mm SP Catapults are good to go till 2030. Up to 600 Vijayantas were retrofitted with MTU diesel-engines & RENK gearboxes between 1989 & 1994. 4) Not yet. The Black Shark is still competing against the SeaHake since the Varunastra has yet to be cleared for service-induction. 5) Three such vessels have been ordered: S-2, S-3 & S-4. 6) Not to AM standard, but to a standard devised by a team from the IA, CVRDE & IRDE. 7) There are still some R & D hurdles to be cleared for both the PDV & the target engagement algorithms of the LRTR. 8) 18 TELs each with two MR-SAMs + another 36 missile reloads.
To UJJWAL: That’s surely an idiotic move, to say the very least, since Finmeccanica is only a holding company & is not an OEM by any stretch of the imagination. In previous Aero India & DEFEXPO expos, OEMs like Selex-Galileo, WASS, Agusta-Westland & OTOBreda used to exhibit their products at Finmeccanica’s pavilion. Fincantieri & Elettonica SpA (also part of Finmeccanica) had their own separate booths, while Selex-Galileo also exhibited in a booth it shared with Data Patterns Pvt Ltd. Now, WASS, Selex-Galileo, AgustaWestland, OTOBreda & Fincantieri are now free to exhibit at their own booths, thereby doing away with the need to exhibit under Finmeccanica’s umbrella. Problem solved & a big egg on St A K Antony’s face!!!
To Mr.RA 13: Of course there will be ToT, but that ought to be in the arena of through-life MRO to ensure fleet serviceability, plus selective indigenisation of only those rotables, consumables, lubricants & additives which will be required in large numbers. But clamouting for ToT to build airframes, engines, hydraulics, & high-end avionics is a sheer waste of money.
To VIKRANT: 1) Something like that. 2) VMT for sharing that link. It only goes to underscore what I have stated several times before, i.e. Delhi has never comprehended the importance of these North-Eastern states & has therefore disregarded their sensitivities. In addition, efforts to convert these wandering tribals into settled communities were half-hearted. Also, had transportation infrastructure been vastly improved by the 1970s, this alone would have created enormous job opportunities for the locals there, in addition to ushering healthy & consistent GDP growth-rates in each of these states.
To Anon@1.42PM: FYI China-based OEMs like NORINCO are no longer state-owned, rather they’re state-controlled, meaning the state has already undertaken strategic divestments in such OEMs, this being done by the late 1990s & these OEMs are presently all listed in the stock exchanges of HK SAR & Shanghai. Also, your airbrushing of all Indian private-sector companies as being corrupt is totally unjustified & legally untenable.
YANTUO: Despite your ‘modest’ protestations, it’s evident by your rants that you’re only exhibiting uncalled-for & needless outpourings of zenophobic nationalism (i.e. jingoism). Had you approached this subject from an objective standpoint, you would have asked me for my sources of data/information pertaining to the impossibility of an ASBM capability that I had previously highlighted. Professors & technocrats can always assert what’s theoretically possible, but which in reality is practically impossible. And this was proven at a seminar organised late last year in Delhi by a naval foundation in which concepts like ASBM & Air-Sea Battle were extensively discussed & deliberated. What I had done was merely reproduce some extracts from a particular seminar in which serving senior naval officials from Australia, India, the US & Japan had participated. Their informed opinions & operations analysis undoubtedly carry much more weight than any other civilian academician or technocrat. Then there are the laws of physics which dictate that only four SAR-equipped satellites (Yaogan 13, Yaogan 10, Yaogan 18 and Yaogan 14) can’t possibly scan the entire South China Sea, leave alone the Western Pacific. ELINT satellites are totally useless if any CBG manoeuvres while observing strict radio silence (i.e. emissions control). As for your brazen comments on comparisons between the military-industrial capabilities of the PRC & India, do I smell an element of envy or downright inferiority complex? I will conclude with some advice for you: assumption is always the mother of all fuck-ups.
To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: 1) It is still in the conceptual design stage. There’s no delay. 2) By the first quarter of this year. 3) Hopefully, since that’s the most realistic option when viewed from a techno-economic matrix standpoint. 4) Not yet. But three more Scorpene SSKs could well be ordered later this year. 5) Only licenced-assembly from knocked-down kits, since the IN requires about 15 such amphibians while the ICGS requires 36 of them. 6) Additional PWRs will be imported. Power generated by thermal powerplants in India costs about Rs6 per unit. In my view, only Russia-supplied 1,000mW PWRs need to be imported, & construction of indigenous 700mW PHWRs ought to be expedited.
To VIKRAM: By denying such news-reports, one only serves to accord a degree of credibility to them. Better therefore to keep quiet & make an official statement either during DEFEXPO or in Parliament in response to questions asked by MPs.
To VIKRANT: Of course it is utter hogwash. P-8A isn't the same as P-8I. The latter has additional sensors on-board, for starters. Furthermore, the algorithms used by the P-8Is' ASW sensors are still being fine-tuned & optimised while operating in distinct operational environments, as part of the pre-planned product improvement schedule already worked out between the navies of the US & India during contract signature. There has never been any airborne ASW platform that has delivered 100% on performance immediately after its delivery to any customer. ELINT, acoustic & surface target profiling/fingerprinting threat libraries require updating & rationalisation--a process that is time-consuming. Consequently, all identified systems optimisation goals of the P-8I will be realised only by late 2015.
Dear Prasun, Now the IAF is concerned about the FGFA. It is finding that stealth is not adequate. Again it doesn't want a craft that is second to Chinese/Pakistani; may be 2nd to USAF. Is is good option for India to pull out of the project and concentrate only on home grown AMCA? What is your view on FGFA and how it is compared to Chinese stealth technology???
Prasun sir I want to ask u that why indian air force raising so much question on fgfa..is fgfa is not compratively good to its rival..&sir according to you when mrca deal will sign??
Everyone was wondering why the deal is not being inked. Its the same Scorpene story. Those conniving, duplicitous french agreed on lower price and once they won the bid, now they want double the price for a lousy fourth generation fighter.
Scrap the deal ASAP. Let them close down the production line, then we will buy the whole line after a few years.
All posturing was basically for fooling Indian people.
Prasun sir, As you had requested, i am posting this and will post all future queries under this handle. With this said i'll ask my previous question again. P.S there's another Anonymous gentleman, Anon@1.42PM, who was extremely critical of Indian private cos, that is not me (The cons of being anonymous!).
Thanks for explanation regarding the bureaucratic battles. It's now seems clear why everyone is clamoring that the DPSUs should be privatized. I guess the reason being that they would be able to better manage their revenue, and be less dependent upon the meager funds from the MOD. The surplus funds could then help DRDO instead. Am i right?
Also what should the Indian private industries be doing to alleviate the current situation? Or are they only helpless spectators?
Sir, Wishes to you and all other readers on the occasion of 64th Republic Day.
Glad you liked the link I shared,hers the follow up Q&A session
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORNBfgC6hQ
hope,we have more chaps like him who actually know a thing or two about the northeast. 1)Just as an extension do you think the NSCN talks fructifying in our lifetime.For God's sake let us get our act together in these provinces and others.
Dear Prasun, Now there is news 100% cost escalation of Rafael jet fighters. Do you think that, it is still a good option forIAF to go for it. Instead it could be a better option to go for F-35 JSF. What is your view???
Sir, arjun mk2 was unveiled today.. Is it the same arjun version u said u had the pics of..but cudn't upload.. Where is the mk1a ?? I am really confused abt different arjun variants..
To SNTATA: Matters are still in the conceptual design stage due to the DRDO’s constraints in terms of scientific human resources.
To SOUBHAGYA & ASHI JAIN: I fail to understand how exactly you can reach such a conclusion based on pure heresay that’s emanating from a particular ‘desi’ journalist who has not even bothered to speak to either the IAF or Russian military-industrial OEMs involved with the FGFA’s R & D effort. If you wish to remain so gullible, there’s nothing more I can do to explain what the reality is all about. How can anyone even make any realistic assessment of the FGFA’s RCS or stealth characteristics when not even a single prototype or full-scale RCS model of the FGFA has been fabricated to date? The IAF is certainly not so stupid so as to make the kind of unsubstantiated observations that are being attributed to it by one particular ‘desi’ journalist.
To RAJ, SOUBHAGYA & VIKRAM: How convenient it is for anyone to always squarely blame the foreign OEM!!! The Scorpene SSK’s project costs soared due to 1) the MoD’s insistence on licence-building all six SSKs instead of first learning how to build the first two of them at the foreign OEM’s shipyard. 2) The depreciation of the Indian Rupee. In case of the Rafale, the Rupee’s depreciation, coupled with the MoD’s insistence on licence-building the Rafales, can only result in unwanted project cost-escalations. Everyone knew about it in 2011 itself. The cost-escalation for the Eurofighter EF-2000 will be far greater, since in case of the Rafale, there’s only one prime contractor (Dassault Aviation) that needs to make a profit from this contract, whereas in case of the EF-2000 there will be four OEMs—EADS Cassidian, EADS-CASA, BAE Systems & Alenia Aeronautica—all of which will clamour for making healthy financial profits.
To VIKRANT: 65th RD, not 64th. In my reckoning, it is a very healthy trend nowadays to see former senior bureaucrats coming out with such explanations or penning their memoirs, & who are openly criticizing the past mistakes of previous central & state governments. 2) Talks with various separatist/insurgent groups are only meant to buy time for exhausting their will to resist, be it the NSCN or ULFA. That’s how groups like the MNF, Bodos, etc were neutralised.
To PRATEEK: What the DRDO presently refers to as Arjun Mk2 is referred to by the IA as Arjun Mk1A. The Army-specific Arjun Mk2 MBT has not yet been shown anywhere to date.
To VIDYUT: Well done indeed, for that’s the way to go! By strategically divesting from the DPSUs, the MoD should ensure that these DPSUs become fully public-listed corporate entities like L & T, Walchand Industries, TATA Group, etc. Only then will such corporate entities be able to deliver on time, at cost & will also be able to undertake extensive in-house R & D, which the likes of HAL, BEL, BEML etc have failed to do so thus far. Consequently, contrary to what many others wrongly believe to be the case, it is these DPSUs that have been the worst bloodsuckers, especially the MoD-owned shipyards whose skilled workers are always only seen to be working during their designated working hours, but who in reality do all the stipulated work afterwards just for claiming overtime!!! That’s what a true bloodsucking mindset is.
Regarding our defense industrial complex: If companies such as TATA and Mahindra have the capability, why don't they take the initiative in the current scenario for defense R&D? If the DPSU's are under performing and the MOD is apathetic, can't they ditch the DPSU and switch to already public listed corporate entities like TATAs etc? What should the private Indian cos be doing now(needling the MOD, tying up with foreign defense corporations)? How's the future for our nascent private defense companies? I'm seeing quite a few coming up.
Did I say all Pvt Companies are corrupt? I've raised objection to MoD and our military along with media demonizing state owned institutions which have been created with tons of taxpayers' money and now when they are on the verge of success all of a sudden they become "inefficient" and therefore a perfect excuse to rope in extremely corrupt Pvt Cos which have a history of reaching where they are by purely playing the extremely corrupt system. What is the background of Tata, Mahindra, Reliance etc. in defense? Absolutely nil. It's also surprising that just after India awards the MMRCA contract to Rafale, France Reliance enters into JV with this firm and the head of Boeing, India joins Reliance. The magnitude of corruption can be gauged by the Nira Radia episode where the Tatas, a group that tom toms values and ethics from it's rooftop indulging in doctoring the news of almost all news channels. With regard to listing DPSUs in stock market, what are we going to achieve? Blue sky innovation takes time and money. Will any of our Pvt Company invest their own time and money on defense R&D? These DPSUs were created for self reliance and towards this end they have done a fairly good job vis-a-vis Pvt Companies which are finding it difficult to fold on to the market share in India due to external competition. I'm not against Pvt Companies entering defense sector. I'm against the way India's defense is becoming a way for corrupt people and companies to make money. Classic example is Rafale acquisition where the Frogs simply want to circumvent real ToT to India as part of offset clause, by roping in Reliance , a corrupt company with no defense background, instead of HAL. And the media is completely mum about this as they in turn are owned or controlled by these huge monopolistic conglomerates. I'd again request you not to delete this post but your views to my observation.
one of the reasons perhaps the workers willing to do their stipulated work only in extra time is that the money alloted for human resource especially for contractual labour is low. I remember speaking to a an Mtech holder working on an assigned project for ISRO where she was paid only 1500 rupees a month. Regardless she completed the work thinking of the prestige in the national project, but again a second assignment was offered to her with the same salary which she rejected outright. This was 6 years back and may be things have changed. But i do think that if you want quality work you have to give quality salary. I also feel that in order to get the contract the PSUs quote far lower in human resources (to claim the lowest price in the world) and manage with hundred donkeys to do 1 lions work (no disrespect meant only colloqial phrase). Is this any possible reason.
To VIDYUT: And what makes you think that the TATAs, MAHINDRAs & L & Ts haven’t yet taken the initiative in defence R & D? I have already given several times before several examples of what path-breaking R & D efforts they have done to date. And for the sake of Anon@2.13PM I will highlight them one last time. Over the past eight years at least, the DRDO has been more inclined to award prototype development & series-production contracts to the private-sector & it is due to the DRDO’s dogged insistence that private-sector companies like TATA Power SED, L & T, Godrej & Boyce, Walchandnagar Industries, etc etc have successfully delivered on time & at no extra cost. These companies, as well as their SME vendors, will have to take the next step forward by tying up with their foreign counterparts to become members of the global supply-chain, which in turn will expose them to the best business practices & also help them acquire cutting-edge technologies & manufacturing skills. In many cases this is already happening & that’s the reason why OEMs like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems, L-3 MAPPS, EADS etc have already set up India-registered subsidiaries.
To Anon@2.13PM: In case I deleted your posts previously, it was because you didn’t bother to use a decent handle & kept posting as ‘Anonymous’, & not because I wanted to shy away from a debate, kindly rest assured. To add to what I’ve explained above to VIDYUT, NONE of the DPSUs have to date achieved any meaningful breakthrough or success in any sector through in-house R & D insofar as indigenisation & innovation goes. These DPSUs were created ONLY FOR licence-building various types of products & have never achieved indigenisation even in this area. Now, for the R & D successes of private-sector companies, contrary to your once-again sweeping judgement of ‘NIL’, consider the following: 1) Back in the early 1980s, it was TIFR that produced the critical R & D breakthrough for networking technologies for the IA’s Project AREN tactical communications system.
2) It was TATA Power SED, not NPOL or NSTL or BEL, that developed the acoustics signal processor for the HUMSA-NG sonar. Similarly, TATA Power SED not only developed the Arjun MBT’s digital TFCS, but also did the same for the HVF-built T-90S MBTs. Similarly TATA Advanced Materials was the first to develop Kevlar inserts for BPJs way back in the early 1990s & was the first to develop all-composite airframe structures for Dhruv ALH & Tejas MRCA.
3) The DRDO chose Mahindra Defence for series-producing the NSTL-developed Marreech torpedo decoy-launcher while the MoD chose this same company for licence-building & servicing the AK-630M naval close-in weapon systems.
4) It was the DRDO that chose L & T for very obvious reasons to fabricate the S-2, S-3 & S-4 nuclear-powered submarines’ hulls & their integrated propulsion systems.
5) It was the DRDO that chose two private-sector companies from Pune & Delhi—and not the OFB--for series-producing HEMRL-developed BMCS modules on an industrial-scale.
I could go on & on & this will only produce an exhaustive listing of similar feats by private-sector companies & all of them will drive home the very same message: private-sector have & will continue to deliver on time & minus cost escalations, whereas the exact opposite holds true for the DPSUs.
To SREENIVAS R: Rs, 1,500 or Rs.15,000? The former sounds way too low. But you’re absolutely right about the prevailing practices in India WRT low wages, low motivation-levels & lack of academic & professional appreciation for high-end R & D. Only that can explain why till this day the Govt of India has been unable to create semiconductor foundries when their need has been felt since the mid-1980s.
Prasun, 1) Where were the Renualt Sherpa trucks you said the SPG had bought along with the NSG- I didn't see a trace of them at the BTR or R-day events with the PM's motorcade.
2) In the case of another 26/11 type event anywhere in India would the NSG task force in Delhi be flown in the C-130J or C-17 as both are stationed in Hindon. Whilst the C-17 is a turbofan a/c and can lift more so can get their faster with more, the C-130J is the dedicated transport for Special operations. Both a/c have very good availability rates (higher than 85% ). Are there specific plans in place dictating which plane will be used?
To HOOLIGAN: 1) I’m sure the SPG’s Sherpas were safely tucked away somewhere on-site. After all, no proximate security force can be expected to publicly reveal all their wares. Even the sight of SPG personnel armed with FN-2000 SLRs in such close proximity to the PM was an extremely disgusting sight since it only served to indicate that the PM is someone under constant siege. No other world leader can be seen in the close company of such gun-totting personal security personnel. 2) Why only IL-76MD or C-130J or C-17A? During such an emergency, the first priority should be to fly out ASAP & this can be done only by civilian airliners that already have readymade flight-plans that have to be filed with ATC authorities. Without this, airborne navigation is IMPOSSIBLE. Even the IAF has to draw up & submit such flight-plans. That’s what typically delays the launch of a hostage-rescue mission. In a future scenario, the NSG’s first responders should be authorised to commandeer the first available civilian airliner as a chartered flight from Delhi—something that can be done within mere minutes. And this contingency should be routinely put to test during counter-terrorist exercises—something that has not yet been anywhere in India since 26/11.
Well the NSG DOES have the authority to commender any plane in India- this was put in place post 26/11. However a Military plane like the C-130J or C-17 is necessary for all the gear the NSG has to take with them- they can't be expected to merely travel with their personal gear. As I've been able to peice together the NSG test force from Delhi now travels with at least 2 vehicles- 1 Sherpa assault vehicle and 1 bomb-disposal truck/vehicle. Along with several tonnes of palatalised equipment. As such a Military a/c with a rear cargo hatch is really the ideal, if not, the ONLY a/c available to do the job properly.
The NSG does regualry practice this- well loading and prepping to go these days (post 26/11)- I know this for a FACT. in fact during the bomb blasts of 2011 in Mumbai, the NSG task force was sat in a IL-76MD on secondment to the ARC (also located at IGI) waiting on the tarmac, ready to receive the call and go to Mumbai- they were stood down but it still demonstrates that they will favour a Military cargo plane.
And I was under the impression the Sherpas were to join the PM's Motorcade- didn't see that though.
98 comments:
Prasunda,
What is going on with the IAF? Please see:
http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/russia-can-t-deliver-on-fifth-generation-fighter-aircraft-iaf-114012100059_1.html
Does it mean there will be no match in IAF for J-20, J-31, forget about F-22 or F-35??
How much load sharing will be done by 4th gen Su-30MKI and 4.5 gen Rafale?
Prasunda,
What is the problem in Rafale acquisition?
1. Is the issue about unwillingness of ToT by Rafale?
2. Is it true that HAL cannot digest french technology?
3. Why is Dassault unwilling to take the responsibility of 108 HAL built aircrafts?
4. Why does it want to collaborate with Reliance but not HAL?
5. Why is MoD adamant on partnership with HAL only?
6. It was a long drawn contract awarding process. SO they didn't calculate all these issues previously?
7. Has there been any corruption in the awarding? French are well known for looking for influence. Is there something fishy?
8. Can you for once and all, clarify the issues involved because huge amount of cacophony is going on around?
Thanks and best
HI prasun
My fears of the pakfa fighter not up to the mark is comming true as the IAF seems tobe disenchanted by the performance figures. Is it true . Or is thre something more to it.
What is he make of the missile warning system and counter measures in the awacs pic posted.
To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI, RAD & ANUP: This is yet another classic example of a ‘desi’ news-reporter engaging in needless theatrics aimed at converting a non-story into a story. This same news-reporter had stated in his blog in 2011 if I remember correctly that “I know all about the FGFA’s shortcomings & it isn’t what it’s being made out to be” at a time when he was busy touting the capabilities of the F-35 JSF. And therein lies the catch. What he has done this time is to latch on to certain facts of 2011/2012 & then mix them up with dates like December 24, 2013 & January 15, 2014 & lo-and-behold(!), a new story gets fabricated that in reality is two years old. Classic ‘desi’ yellow journalism at its best. The two meetings of December 24 & January 15 were just meant for ‘stock-taking’ & ‘progress reviewing’ for an R & D programme that is still underway & consequently, there’s no question of ‘about-turn’—stunning or otherwise. Meanwhile, here are the undeniable facts that came out during the MAKS-2013 expo:
1) The IAF is aghast that HAL has proposed "surrendering 30% of its 50% work-share" in jointly developing the FGFA with Russia.
2) While the AL-31FP is rated at 123kN, the FGFA prototypes are all using 'Izdelie-117S' turbofans designated as AL-41F-1A & rated at 147kN. These will be replaced by this year-end by a turbofan that’s 25% more powerful & will generate 153kN. This will be the definitive supercruising powerplant for the FGFA & it will be known as the AL-41FU.
3) Distributed-array AESA-MMR panels were showcased during MAKS-2013 & will be common to both the FGFA and T-50 PAK-FA. Consequently, the issue of the Russian Air Force requiring or specifying an AESA-MMR using only a frontal-oriented single-antenna does not even arise.
4) The plan till 2012 was that India would begin inducting the FGFA from 2022 onwards, with the IAF experimental test-pilots from ASTE getting three FGFA prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for R & D and flight-trials. That plan remains valid till this day.
In conclusion, there’s no need at all to get worked up by yet another instance of classic ‘desi’ yellow journalism from an entity who unabashedly professes more faith in imported readymade solutions like the F-35 JSF.
Engaging in Russia-bashing is fine, PROVIDED one does so with undeniable facts & compelling arguments, instead of spitting out convoluted concoctions.
To RAD: The MAWS & RWR on the EMB-145I is the very same that's on board the Rudra, i.e. RWR from SaabTech & MAWS is the MILDS-F from EADS/Cassidian.
What is the status of this AEW, is it a fully developed platform now?
Seems like pakistan is getting the benefits of indo-us nuclear deal. Another 3 reactors and a new site. Wow NS does like to do things in big way!!!
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304757004579332460821261146?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304757004579332460821261146.html
If india are going to pay $6B and still not have access to high end tech, whats the point of this joint venture?
Would hal/drdo/iaf not be able to do a better job developing their own 5th gen from scratch in-house with this money? Afterall indians are much cheaper than russians and the money will go so much further.
To AK: What’s the problem? Elementary: it’s all about financial resource constraints in fiscal year 2013. 1) There are no hurdles whatsoever about ToT. 2) HAL & BEL can both digest it, but not within the specified timeframe. That’s why I had already stated in the previous thread that from the time a TPE331 turboprop engine enters HAL’s workshop for servicing, it takes 11 months to be serviced because HAL has to apply for various import approvals for spares from the MoD & this entire bureaucratic process consumes precious time. In contrast, my very own MRO facility churns out fully overhauled TPE331s or PT6As within 45 days with ease. 3) Because Dassault Aviation does not want to be sued for product liability, plain & simple. If HAL is averse to implementing Dassault Aviation-specified QA/QC standards, then how can Dassault Aviation be held responsible for a manufacturing defect that causes a fatal air-crash? In addition, if anyone wants to tinker with aircraft design without the OEM’s involvement, such as using indigenously-developed drag-chutes that have not been certified by the aircraft’s OEM, then the OEM cannot be held responsible for any performance deficiencies that the aircraft may exhibit when using such indigenously-developed products & if at all there’s a fatal accident, then the aircraft’s OEM is legally entitled to refuse to take part in accident investigations. This in turn will threaten to ground the entire fleet of the concerned aircraft, & the IAF will end up as the nett loser. 4) Because unlike HAL, RELIANCE can take the necessary corporate decisions regarding capital injections into new projects within a matter of hours, while HAL will require up to 1.5 years or more to secure similar approvals from the MoD. 5) Because the MoD wholly owns entities like HAL & BEL & therefore the MoD’s Dept of Defence Production & Supplies wants to protect such DPSUs at any cost, even at the cost of national security, from stiff competition posed by India’s private-sector military-industrial entities. 6) Everything was calculated & no stone was left unturned. All the artificial man-made hurdles have been posed by the Union Ministries of Finance & Home Affairs, just for the sake of buying time & for fiscal year 2013 to elapse. 7) None whatsoever, just as there wasn’t any when the SPG chose the AW-101 for VVIP transportation. 8) Answers to the previous seven points have done just that.
To RAW13: EMB-145I AEW & CS is still under development, since its S-band active phased-array antenna was never test-flown & its on-flight performance characteristics/parameters were never validated on board an airborne testbed. Consequently, the first two prototypes are being used now for such validations, especially those algorithms concerned with clutter management/clutter rejection. By 2016 all R & D hurdles will be overcome. Concerning the FGFA’s R & D costs, no official figures have been released as yet & therefore all other figures being quoted are just speculative. It takes more than 2 decades to develop a 5th-generation MRCA. By the time India’s homegrown 5th-generation MRCA emerges well after 2030, 6th-generation MRCAs would be in vogue. Hence the decision to join forces with Russia, which had initiated R & D work on a 5th-generation MRCA way back in the late 1980s.
Sir,
1)How doe IAF intend to use two platforms DRDO AEWACS and phalcon?
2)sir,what is the status of lr-sam and how capable is it against the ALCMs that pakistan navy possesses?
3)also let me report that the concerned jounalist,who has written about fgfa this time and supports import of F-35s has also written a story criticizing the iaf and supporting HALs BTA at the cost of PC-7 in the name of indiginous tech.
4)how long before we see export of indian warships?I mean larger ships not OPVs
Prasun Da ,
Did you see the latest PEW analysis ?
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/30/which-countries-americans-like-and-dont/
According to this analysis a significant number of Americans polled (33%) have an Unfavorable view towards India.
Very few countries have a higher unfavorable rate for India than the US .
-Sujoy
Interesting EOIs, RFIs & RFPs:
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/drdojsp/downloadtndr.jsp?tenderName=5462&McrId=CVRDE*Combat%20Vehicles%20Research%20&%20Development%20Estt.&p=CVRDE_EOI_06_060114.pdf
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/drdojsp/downloadtndr.jsp?tenderName=4869&McrId=DRDL*Defence%20Research%20&%20Development%20Laboratory&p=SPECIFICATION_drdl_050813.pdf
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/drdojsp/downloadtndr.jsp?tenderName=5159&McrId=ADE*Aeronautical%20Development%20Establishment&p=120416.pdf
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/drdojsp/downloadtndr.jsp?tenderName=5400&McrId=NSTL*Naval%20Science%20&%20Technological%20Laboratory&p=SAGEM%20TENDER.pdf
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/drdojsp/downloadtndr.jsp?tenderName=4591&McrId=CABS*Centre%20For%20Air%20Borne%20System&p=RFI_CABS.pdf
http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=jnk626425&wno=1&td=TD
http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del627124&wno=1&td=TD
To VIKRANT: 1) How? Just like others do: for airborne battle management, early warning, & air-traffic management. 2) LR-SAMs are never meant for use against ALCMs. SR-SAMs, SHORADS & E-SHORADS are. 3) Such self-styled journalists are classic ‘moronic eggheads’. It has always been a sheer pleasure for me to see since 1994 such ‘desi’ journalists during various aerospace/military expos attending only the MoD-organised press-conferences & availing of the daily free outpourings of mid-day meals & refreshments that are organised within the expos’ Press Centres by corporate sponsors like foreign OEMs , & hardly bothering to talk to the various OEMs (local & foreign) who are ever-willing to patiently answer most if not all queries. And almost all these ‘desi’ eggheads just spend time wandering like headless chickens only within & around the DRDO pavilion, never even bothering to engage in meaningful/coherent/cogent conversations with the assembled technocrats from the various DRDO labs. And at the end of it all, they shamelessly pronounce the expos as being ‘lacklustre’! So, what else can one expect from such bandalbaazis, nautanki wallahs & naatakarans? 4) At least another decade.
To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: How can anyone expect a realistic assessment of the average US citizen’s views on India when only a minute percentage of them have actually visited India? For, the average contented US citizen’s life revolves around NBL, American Baseball tournaments & NASCAR and consequently, he/she couldn’t care less about the rest of the world, leave alone India or even neighbouring Mexico.
Looks like the CBI is at long-last headed for the right direction. Had this been done much earlier, then there would have been no prima facie reason for prematurely terminating the AW-101 contract:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chopper-deal-cbi-seeks-presidents-nod-to-examine-governors/article5602266.ece?homepage=true
In the last but one tender link they are using gmail for contact. not nic mail address..
what a shame?
To REDDY: If I may be allowed to humour you, what is far more shameful is that an internal assessment done by the Indian Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) last December had discovered that major infrastructure projects worth Rs.14 lakh crore were mired in red-tape & among them were projects worth Rs.10 lakh crore whole files were adrift somewhere within the Ministry of Environment. After Jayanthi Natarajan resigned as Union Environment Minister on December 20, 349 files were sent back from her home & of these 180 were unsigned, while the remaining had been signed by her but were held back for unknown reasons. Of those that were signed, 28 files were with her since 2012 & two since 2011. No one can explain how so many files had piled up in her residence. Obviously this had nothing to do with compliance of environmental procedures/regulations, but an individual working practice. Since December 23, 2013, 70 projects worth Rs.1.5 lakh crore have since been cleared by M Veerappa Moily, who is now the Union Minister for Oil, Gas & Environment. The remainder of the backlog will hopefully be cleared by the end of this month.
Interesting seminar-cum-expo in New Delhi:
http://www.prlog.org/12235867-night-vision-india-seminar-to-address-indian-armys-huge-demand.html
Dear Prasun,
I was reading INS Arihant sea trails news today.
Arihant is just 112 meters while all other SSBNs are 170 meters with all navies.
is this not a serious issue considering 112 meters is too small for a nuclear SSBN boat? either for crew/missiles/reactor safety/R&D purposes?
Hi Prasun,
Any idea on the status of DRDOs efforts on High Energy Lazer based weapons?
Raj
Prasun da,
Can you provide the specifications of Dhanush 155 mm howitzer (developed by DRDO). How it is better than its original version (Bofors 155 mm).
@Prasun da
1st thing i am happy that you have posted some pics about DRDO AEWC, i was a bit disappointed that you profiled a Chinese make in your last thread that had nothing to do with India. Like the AEWC if you can profile Shuarya, B05, Rudra and other indigenous efforts it will be good.
I have a few questions
1. That IAC2 will be nuke powered & EMALS equipped is certain, my calculation says the jet that will from it will be RAFALE M (40+ no) alongwith a few NLCA, as if heavy jets like N FGFA are to fly, the ship will have to be atleast 75k+ in weight
2. IAF wants to assemble pilatus BTAs at Sulur,TN why HAL wants to scuttle this when it cant deliver even LCA on time
3.IA will induct Dhanush 155 mm arent these the home built Bofors from ToT
your views pls
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
Dear Prasunda,
Is HTT-40 being built by HAL is completely indigenous, as Mr Shukla says? Even the turboprop engine?
Hard to believe!!!!
Prasunda,
1. Its bit difficult to understand what IA artillery division wants? One day we get news that IA wants to induct 'Catapult 130mm" SP gun. Next day, IA wants Dhanush 155mm but with 45 caliber only. What happened to standardisation? All 155mm, 52 cal regiments? Why is this khichdi going on? Any news on 52 cal gun barrel manufacture?
2. There is almost no news on naval LCA. It was grounded because of landing gear issues, then what happened? WHat happened to US navy collaboration for training IN pilots? Will NLCA fly again?
3.If at all HAL is insistent on making HTT-40, is it possible for it to install same engine, ejection seat,propeller and other stuff for the sake of simplicity in logistics? And when will this elusive HTT-40 be battle ready?
4. Why does IAF insist on making PC-7 MKII on its 5 BRD? There are n number of private aerospace manufacturers like Mahindra, Taneja, TATA, even Reliance, who would be more than happy to open a manufacturing plant for more than 100 trainers. So why not give them a opening?
5. With the rate of production of HAL, it will take 25-50 years for IAF to get about 200 - 400 LCA fighters. Is there a possibility (even for the next incoming government) to invite the private sector to open a alternate production line for quicker LCA induction?
6. Finally, any news on the 190MW PWR for INS Vishal or nuke subs?
Thanks
Sir, with reference to your reply to Rajeev Chaturvedi, you have stated 153kN AL-41FU will be the definitive supercruising engine for FGFA.
But what about the Izdeliye-30/Product-30 turbofan being developed by Saturn rated at 176kN for FGFA/PAK-FA?
Isn't IAF getting that one?
Hi Prasun
There are reports that Israel has already installed the Barak-8 missile system in its SAAR class corvetts already. Has it been proven or is it a knee jerk reaction to possible threats.What are these dolts doing here.?
Why is the S band chosen for the awacs when the world ver it is L and. Is it that we are integrating SAR as well.?
Thank you for the answer Prasun.
Prasun Da ,
The writer here states - " The official disclosed that many new defence deals would come up between India and Russia later this year but declined to give specific details."
http://indrus.in/economics/2014/01/21/joint_production_to_be_norm_in_new_indo-russian_defence_projects_32419.html?utm_content=buffer223f7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Is there any truth in this statement that many new defense deals would come up between India & Russia ?
Probably MTA and BRAHMOS II , but then they are not necessarily new deals .
Regards,
Vikram
Dear Prasunda,
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prasun, Dassault is averse to HAL is that it is afraid that
1. HAL will absorb its technology and implement it for its future programs. it is not the same if it is reliance. Dassault has no control over HAL!!
2. it doesn't want to part engine tech to HAL for the same reason
3.it doesn't want to part with its AESA technology because HAL will use it for its home grown products.JMT
Dear Prasunda
I read this in a blog...is it true?
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has done a stunning about-turn, sharply criticising the showpiece Indo-Russian project to co-develop a futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has done a stunning about-turn, sharply criticising the showpiece Indo-Russian project to co-develop a futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Even as New Delhi and Moscow finalise a $6 billion deal to co-develop an FGFA with capabilities tailor-made for India, the IAF has alleged the Russians would be unable to meet their promises about its performance.
Business Standard has reviewed the minutes of that meeting. The IAF's three top objections to the FGFA were: (a) The Russians are reluctant to share critical design information with India; (b) The fighter's current AL-41F1 engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines; and (c) It is too expensive. With India paying $6 billion to co-develop the FGFA, "a large percentage of IAF's capital budget will be locked up."
THINK TANK
http://defencelover.in/2013/09/24/two-attempts-raw-made-on-the-life-of-dawood-but-govt-balked-it-at-last-minute/
Are any of the facts mentioned in this true?
To REDDY: That’s because the S-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 boats will in essence be more SSGNs than SSBNs. The definitive SSBNs of the IN will be the S-5/S-6/S-7 boats each displacing more than 15,000 tonnes. Anyway, word from today’s seminar on night-vision seminar is that the IA will go for across-the-board introduction of Gen-3 NVGs only during the 13 Defence Plan (2018-2023). Until then, only one in every four infantrymen will have access to such NVGs.
To RAJ: You meant directed-energy weapons? The DRDO is already developing the so-called E-Bomb—meant for generating EMPs over a tactical battle area. As for the future, high-power lasers will definitely be the close-in air-defence weapon of choice for both ground forces & naval forces & some R & D in these areas is already well underway.
To SIDDHARTH: The OFB-developed ‘Dhanush’ will have a 155mm/45-calibre barrel, will be able to fire more rounds per minute than is now possible with the FH-77B, & will also be equipped with a muzzle velocity radar, BEL-assembled ELBIT Systems’ fire-control computer & its AMLCD display panel, an autonomous land navigation system using Sigma-30 RLG-INS & its AMLCD display, electronic drive unit, IRDE-developed direct aiming sight, BEL-developed VHF communications system, & a BEL-developed ‘Shakti’ ACCCS interface box. However, when it comes to new-generation land-mobile meteorological radars, neither the DRDO nor BEL has been able to come up with any innovative solutions, for very mysterious reasons. Without such radars, accurate field artillery fire-assault direction is an impossibility. The Pinaka Mk1 MBRLs are presently meteorological radars imported from Brazil’s AVIBRAS. Wonder why neither BEL nor the DRDO ever bothered to develop such radars.
To ANUP: ‘Dhanush’ is the OFB-developed 155X45 towed howitzer whose design was derived from the Bofors FH-77B. DRDO never developed the ‘Dhanush’. DRDO is developing the ATAGS 155mm/52-cal towed howitzer under a totally different project. Swathi WLR is ready for series-production by BEL to meet the IA’s reqmt for 42 such WLRs. But since ‘Saint’ Antony has not yet been able to solve the problems associated with the procurement of BEML/TATRA trucks, production orders for Swathi have not yet been placed by the IA with BEL, since non-availabilty of a suitable motorised TEL means that the ‘Swathi’ cannot be mounted on any vehicle as of now, even though it had successfully passed user-evaluations as far back as late 2012!!!
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: You mean to say that if a neighbour that shares a common frontier/border with India procures a major weapon system, it has nothing to do with India??? What kind of spectacularly convoluted reasoning is that??? It’s beyond me for sure. Have already profiled the ‘Rudra’ way back several times. 1) Not necessarily. Even 65,000 tonnes will suffice. 2) Because HAL wants to inflate the financial quantum of its order-books at a time when its annual import bill for components for products like Tejas Mk1, Rudra, LCH & in future the Super Su-30MKI & LUH is steadily rising. Quite elementary, really. 3) The ‘Dhanush’ is the upgraded FH-77B featuring enhancements that I have already listed above in a previous reply.
To AK: Of course it isn’t. But one sure gets the impression that it is, thanks to the tendency of such ‘desi’ journalists to overlook the details & oversimplify matters. On the HTT-40 BTT that was displayed at Aero India 2013, all the AMLCD-based cockpit displays & instrumentation were from ELBIT Systems, while HAL officials confirmed to me that the engine & gearbox will be from Pratt & Whitney Canada, propellers will come from Hamilton Standard, & several other accessories & hydraulic components & ejection seats will be outsourced from Italian & other European OEMs. Consequently, HAL will build only the airframe, tricycle undercarriage, comms radios, standby AHRS & altimeter, accounting for less than 40% of indigenous content. By proposing something preposterous—that the IAF operate a mixed fleet of PC-7 Mk2 & HTT-40 BTT—what HAL is saying is that a person, for his own daily commuting reqmts, purchase two different models of sedans (like a TATA Nano & a Maruti/Suzuki Swift) & use one of them for the first fortnight of every month & the other sedan for the remainder of the month! That’s how convoluted HAL’s argument is from both financial & operational angles. In this day & age when financial resources are precious & scarce for military force-modernisation, no one in their right mind will support HAL’s POV regarding the HTT-40. And that’s also the reason why the MoD has refused to consider imported solutions for the IA’s/IAF’s combined reqmt for LUH/RSH & is instead to wait it out for the HAL-developed LUH to emerge.
To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: 1) No one from the IA wants the 130mm Catapult to be mounted atop the Arjun’s hull. The existing Catapults are good to go till 2030 & the IA does not want them to be tinkered with. The 155mm/45-cal ‘Dhanush’ is an interim solution & hence only 414 have been ordered from OFB. Likewise, some 600 existing M-46s will be upgunned from 130mm to 155mm/45-calibre & this will be followed by the arrival by 2020 of the DRDO-developed 155mm/52-cal ATAGS. 2) LCA (Navy) Mk1’s landing gear is being redesigned & re-engineered by EADS/Cassidian & some ex-US Navy aviation consultants too have been roped in for their guidance. Once this has been fulfilled, then a full-scale LCA (Navy) Mk1 will have to be subjected to stringent fatigue-tests (including hauling it up to an altitude of 6 feet & then letting it go fall to the surface) before work begins on fabricating the LSP-series LCA (Navy) Mk1s. All this is a time-consuming process. 3) Even if there’s maximum commonality between the PC-7 Mk2 & HTT-40, how does one justify all the non-recurring R & D expenditure for making the HTT-40 flightworthy? Where’s the value-addedness? Will it ever be able to compete with the likes of the KT-1? Procuring the HTT-40 would have made perfect sense had the PC-7 Mk2s not been procured. But since the PC-7 Mk2s are here to stay with the IAF, one cannot put two tigers inside a single cage. 4) That’s a good question for the MoD to answer. Licenced-assembly contract for the PC-7 Mk2s & their through-life product support contract should have been awarded to an Indian OEM through a competitive tendering process. 5) Of course such options are always there on the table. But it takes a lot of guts, audacity & vision for a Raksha Mantra to take such far-reaching & well-meaning decisions & systemic reforms. Whether India can produce such a RM in future remains to be seen. 6) Not so soon.
To GESSLER: Pre-planned product improvement is a continuous process & the 176kN variant of the AL-41FU will definitely emerge within a decade. But that does not mean that one halts all flight-test/flight-certification activity on the FGFA until the arrival of the 176kN variant of the AL-41FU. Hence, use will be made of the 153kN-thrust variant of the AL-41FU for the FGFA’s flight-test/flight-certification activities, which will get underway from next year.
To RAD: That’s true. Problems were NEVER with the Barak-8 missile round, but were concerned with the fire-control aspects of the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR. Configuration of this multi-mode APAR for Project 15A DDGs is quite different from that meant for the Sa’ar corvettes & hence the systems validation challenges are totally different. Even the Ericsson-developed active phased-array radar for the Saab 340/Saab 2000 AEW & C platforms functions in S-band. IAI/ELTA’s G-550 AEW & CS uses both L-band & S-band active phased-array radars.
To RAW13: Most welcome.
To VIKRAM GUHA: There are quite a few, like ordering Batch 3 of Project 1135.6 FFGs, ordering some 350 T-90AM medium battle tanks, official launch of the Super Su-30MKI upgrade project, ordering some Russia-origin sub-systems for the projected IAC-2 aircraft carrier, Project 15B DDGs & Project 17A FFGs, and service-life extension of the eight existing Type 877EKM SSKs.
To Anon@5.25PM: Why always single out the CIA? Why not the external intelligence agencies of Russia, the UK, France, Germany or even China? Why this never-ending obsession with just the CIA & ISI?
To AERO: 1) Are you kidding? It’s like claiming that HAL has conceived the Tejas Mk1 MRCA’s final-assembly line by trying to replicate the final-assembly line of the Hawk Mk132! And what exactly is meant by ‘absorbing’ the technology? Can you elaborate by giving some concrete examples from other countries? 2) No one parts with technologies related to fabrication of a turbofan’s hot-sections. Not even Russia. 3) Mastering AESA-production technologies & sharing source-codes are the very easy parts. Evolving its fitment architecture & related environment control systems, & developing its applications algorithms are the principal technological challenges, which no foreign OEM will share. Consequently, everyone aspiring to develop AESA-MMRs as no other choice but to invest in both fundamental & applied R & D, which includes procuring turbofan-powered aircraft that can be modified as airborne test-beds—something the CABS has not yet done.
To THINK TANK: Had already replied to such a query in great detail yesterday.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/a-mismatch-of-nuclear-doctrines/article5602609.ece?homepage=true&utm_content=buffer2fec1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
How can India improve this situation ?
--muttu
To ABS: Not entirely true. The first attempt was made (as I had explained earlier in another thread) to intercept Dawood Ibrahim's business jet within Nepali airspace (during one of Dawood's several visits to Kathmandu where he owned some gambling casinos) & force it to land in either Kathmandu or in India. But this plan failed when the IAF's MiG-21s were scrambled too late & Dawood's business jets had by then entered Chinese airspace in TAR & was out-of-reach for the IAF.
The 2nd plan, on which the Bollywood flick 'D-DAY' is based, was to assassinate Dawood on July 23, 2005 at the Grand Hyatt Hotel in Dubai during the wedding ceremony of his daughter Mahrukh to Junaid Miandad. To make this plan work, two sharpshooters of the Cambodia-based Chhota Rajan gang--Farid Tanasha & Vicky Malhotra--were infiltrated into India in the first quarter of 2005 by the IB through 24 Parganas in West Bengal & they were sent to Delhi for final briefings on the assassination plan & collection of their IB-supplied passports (with fake identity), weapons & air-tickets. The former IB Director Ajit Doval (India’s only IPS officer to be awarded the military honour of Kirti Chakra) was made in-charge of remotely choreographing this entire ‘outsourced’ mission. But in what later became a classic fuck-up thanks to inter-agency turf wars, the presence of the two sharpshooters in Delhi became known to the sleuths of the Crime Branch of Mumbai Police, who then went to Delhi to arrest the sharpshooters. One evening just prior to their departure, when the two sharpshooters were being briefed by Doval in a ‘safehouse’, the Mumbai Crime Branch sleuths, who had been keeping the sharpshooters under constant surveillance, suddenly burst in & demanded to arrest the two of them. That’s how the secrecy behind this assassination plan was destroyed & the plan had to be abandoned since both the IB & Mumbai Crime Branch were unaware of each other’s moves & the Crime Branch sleuths subsequently arrested the two sharpshooters & hauled them back to Mumbai. If only the IB had taken the Mumbai Crime Branch into confidence, such a major embarrassment could well have been avoided & the assassination plan could have been put into effect.
Prasun sir,
I read your previous replies and see that you have explained in short the conclusion of Where ROK was right and where India went wrong. Many thanks for the short conclusion. Could you also give a detailed article on it (the conclusion)?
Also, reading previous articles i garner that public sector companies (along with the MOD) are responsible for gross inefficiencies as OEMs. But then, how do similar public sector companies such as BAE systems, EADS, Raytheon turn out to be extremely successful?
Thanks
To MUTTU: The following steps are reqd to be taken to ensure effective & demonstrable strategic deterrence:
1) Officially declare India’s strategic deterrence posture, instead of clinging on to the ‘Draft Nuclear Doctrine’ of the late 1990s.
2) Create the post of a full-time Chief of Defence Staff & appoint the existing Chief of HQ Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) as the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff.
3) The Chief of Strategic Forces Command (SFC) should also command a Division-sized formation of infantrymen (thereby replacing the CISF personnel) whose only job should be to guard the various disassembled components of India’s nuclear warheads & their ballistic missile-based/manned aircraft delivery systems. This should be similar to the 18,000-strong Defence Security Corps raised by the Pakistan Army.
4) The Indian Army should raise its own Strategic Rocket Artillery Corps or SRAC (like the PLA’s 2nd Artillery Corps) that will be responsible for A) operating, maintaining & deploying the land-based IRBMs & ICBMs, & B) commanding, operating, maintaining, deploying & using BLOS-BSMs that are now distributed among three Missile Groups. The SRAC should also be equipped with land-mobile passive surveillance systems (PSS).
5) Expedite the S-5/S-6/S-7 SSBN production programme & launch a separate production line for no less than nine SSNs.
6) Establish a tri-services University for Strategic Rocket Artillery Engineering for imparting hands-on training to all personnel hailing from the three armed services who would be responsible for operating, maintaining, deploying & using ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, SLBMs & NLOS-BSMs. This institution should also be responsible for training strategic targeteers from all three armed services & should work closely with agencies like the NTRO.
7) The Indian Navy should set up its own integral University for Naval Reactor Physics & Engineering.
To Anon@12.38AM: BAE Systems, EADS & Raytheon are not public-sector firms. They’re publicly-listed military-industrial entities but are not govt-owned like the public-sector military-industrial entities of India are.
Meet the legend who was responsible for pioneering the development of sonar suites for the IN, starting with APSOH:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/us-canada-news/NRI-scientist-AJ-Paulraj-wins-tech-Nobel/articleshow/29220334.cms
Interesting read:
http://www.firstpost.com/blogs/mr-next-prime-minister-vision-without-execution-is-hallucination-1352741.html?utm_source=ref_article
Prasunda,
Is it coincidence that everytime some mishap happens before 15august,26january,etc.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/Jaguar-aircraft-crashes-in-Rajasthan-no-casualties/articleshow/29217825.cms
With constant attrition despite no induction why can't MoD order a squadron of existing fighters as a stop gap measure like a squadron of mig29smt.
@Prasun da
looks like off late there is a lot of misunderstanding between us. you said 'What kind of spectacularly convoluted reasoning is that???' if you had read the point raised by me carefully i meant that if only you had compared the purchase with Indian
made systems and discussed advantage and short comings of both.
Also i will be glad to have write up on Dhanush 155, Prithvi3 NLOS, B05, aerostate and other radars.
BTW a few points
1. you said to #RajeevChaturvedi 414+600 155mm/45cal is only a interim solution and focus is on 155mm/52-cal ATAGS, then why waste money, effort on 155mm/45cal. Also if i remember you replied to me that focus in on 155mm/52-cal MGS. ATAGS &/or MGS which way will IA go? How many ATAGS &/or MGS will IA need.
2. to #VkiramGuha you said MoD will order some 350 T-90AM, i guess in CKD packsp; then the total T90 will touch 1000+. I remember you said IA will go for over 600 Arjun Mk1/2 and possibly another 600 Arjun mk3/FMBT, arent the total tank no. too many for limited wars
3. To #Muttu you said 'Officially declare India’s strategic deterrence posture' i believe that will have to wait till S5/6/7 roll out
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
Prasunda,
I guess something is seriously wrong with Indian Navy.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ins-vipul-hole-in-pillar-compartment-mumbai-naval-dockyard-indian-navy/1/339183.html
People have started questioning the tenure of Mr D K joshi. How come so many mishaps are happening, one after one? Naval platforms are being acquired by paying through nose and they are so careless with them???
Are we looking at some strong actions, given that Mr Joshi is going to stay for another 2 years? Or he would go Vishnu Bhagwat way?
This is almost sixth incident of its kind. Gates forced both heads of USAF after one major incident.
Prasun Sir,
Thanks for elaborating about BAE systems and EADS being privately owned.
I read the article on AJ Paulraj, thanks for the link. However could you explain this line in the article
But by 1991, according to the now familiar narrative, bureaucratic battles began to take their toll,
What were these bureaucratic battles?
How did they manage to have such a profound effect on even the founding director of major labs?
What should be done to rectify this mess?
parsunda,
what is the status of kaveri engine if you can eloborate ,it will be kind of you because jet engine tech is the need of the day..........
Sir ,
1)Isn't it amazing that we could produce Dhanush howitzer all these years as we had the blueprints but we are doing so now what is the reason?
2)when the barak 8 missile be put on ships like vikramaditya and kolkata?
3)could you share some details on INs SSN plans and sir how many lines of submarine production does IN intend to have?IS HSL alone sufficient for nuclear subs?
4)Will the entire Vikramaditya
CBG be moved to karwar thus freeing up some space at Mumbai?and when would INS Viraat move to vizag?
Dear Prasun,
What would be the effect of walmart coming to india?
i want to concentrate on the ill effects it brings;
before that here are some benefits:
streamlining the retail industry, right from fields/factories to the households/consumers.
ill effects:
1. they capture all the market where by kirana (grocery) shop guys lose their livelyhood.
2. they buy/rent farm land.
3. they import goods from all over the world.
4. they control prices.
5. they do not pay taxes citing various legal/business rules/ offshore entities/ FTAs etc.
6. they get involved in legal/ policy matters to remove food subsidies there by effectively control prices.
I would like to know your views please.
I would like to suggest some solutions:
india should form a consortium with farmers/ manufacturers/ packers/ transporters/ cold storage / distribution centers/ IT firms (for software for retail/POS/warehouse/stock management/banking/ etc)/ open markets/ retail shops/ banks etc
the whole eco system thus provide a complete package direct from farm/factory to consumer table through co-op channels.
to explain further, each stage adds value to the product rather trading. in this chain no one own the product but product moves from farm/factory through series of steps visibly processing/packaging/transport/cold storage/distribution centers/ retail market where co-op teams get a real estate for selling goods.
In this process banks should provide each of them considerable capital to get things move on..
once the product is sold to the consumer the value is distributed according to the contribution, right from the field/factory till the retail real estate.
your valuable comments please...
I have posted something on Walmart In India few minutes back.
I could not see my post here; what could be the reason?
Have you deleted or google deleted based on Walmart keyword?
To RD: These are mere coincidences, do rest assured. And I sincerely hope that the era of damaging stop-gap acquisitions of the type witnessed in the 1980s does not stage a comeback. With the benefit of hindsight now we can, I guess, all agree that instead of upgrading the MiG-29B-12s & Mirage 2000Hs/THs, the MoD could well have initiated the M-MRCA competition by 2003, leading to a decision by 2005 & procurements from 2008. Had this happened, then by now the Rafale would already have been in service in fairly large numbers.
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: There will be no misunderstandings if matters are clearly spelt out. After all, one can never assume or understand what the other is insinuating or implying because we all can’t read each other’s minds. Therefore, it is best that one’s POV is clearly spelt out in a coherent manner. The Dhanush/155X45 was extensively described along with a photo as well early last year. 1) The ATAGS will be series-produced only towards the end of this decade & therefore there needs to be some interim solution to arrest the steadily declining numbers of FH-77Bs. Therefore, induction of up to 1,000 Dhanush 155mm/45-calibre towed howitzers is most welcome, along with some 700 upgunned 155mm/45-cal M-46s & the 145 LW-155 ultra-lightweight 155mm/39-cal howitzers. If the MGS (like Caesar) is procured quickly in the near future, the up to 2,000 Caesars should be procured. In my personal view, procurement of MGS in such large numbers will remove the need for less-capable towed howitzers like the ATAGS. 2) As per the IA’s present plans, up to 600 T-90AMs will be procured off-the-shelf & not in SKD or CKD form. Even if additional Arjun Mk1As, Mk2s & Mk3s are ordered, this will not translate into a large MBT fleet since more than 2,000 T-72s, 500 T-55s & 1,500 Vijayantas that are still in service require urgent replacement. 3) No need to wait that long.
To RAJ: It’s the IN’s fault all right, but not that of its present-day CNS Admiral D K Joshi. In fact, I had predicted way back in 2001 that such incidents will happen on an increasing scale, especially after the decision was taken by the Govt of India immediately after 26/11 to make the IN overall in-charge of both coastal & maritime security domains. Consequently, increased & over-usage of warships for long-durations on patrol causes increased wear-and-tear & this results in such warships requiring to undergo their periodic refits/overhauls in increasing frequencies & all this in turn leads to an increase in workload of the skilled human resources employed at various naval dockyards throughout India. This is exactly what is now happening. The IN being a warfighting force should NEVER have been entrusted with the task of ensuring coastal security. Its principal & only domain should have been kept limited to the provision of maritime security. For providing coastal security, the ICGS should have been expanded & re-equipped on a war-footing after 26/11. This, as we all know, never happened. Till this day, the ICGS does not have even a single dedicated cadet training ship or a shore-based training academy. Instead, one of the Vikram-class OPVs serves as a training vessel, which means one operational OPV less for operational deployment.
To Anon@4.58PM: Bureaucratic battles within the MoD between the DRDO & the various DPSUs all for the sake of garnering the severely depleted financial resources that the Govt of India had made available for R & D after the financial crisis of 1990. It is because of this crisis that R & D work on all major DRDO-initiated projects at that time almost came to a standstill. Among the projects that was hit hardest was that of HAL to develop the HTT-35 BTT. The HTT-35’s full-scale mock-up was last seen in 1994 & after that it disappeared only-god-knows-where. Had that project been allowed to make progress, then today the IAF would already been flying the HAL-developed-and-built HTT-35 BTT & there would have been no need to import any PC-7 Mk2s & ‘desi’ journalists like that Shukla fella would not have had any axe to grind WRT HTT-40. Incidentally, I was the only one to unveil or rediscover the existence of the HTT-35 BTT project way back in 2009 in my earlier blog & had even posted its photos, while all other bloggers & ‘desi’ journalists were either fast asleep or had developed mass amnesia or were too darn lazy to do some background research of their own.
To RAJESH DESWAL: Prototypes of the airworthy version of the Kaveri turbofan are now being fabricated. Three units in all. One of them will be flown on board an IL-76MD airborne testbed by 2016 & following that, based on the test-points obtained, it will be decided whether or not to re-engine a Tejas Mk1 PV with this turbofan for a limited-objective flight-test regime.
To VIKRANT: 1) Well….amazing to some, stupidity to others. I have been saying since 2004 that in-country production of both FH-77Bs & Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs was very much possible since Indian military-industrial entities like OFB & MDL had all the necessary technical documentation & their IPRs required for such an industrial effort. As to why this wasn’t tried out, the only logical explanation is that the decision-makers at MoD, especially within the Dept of Defence Production & Supplies, had all been striken by a bout of collective amnesia! 2) It’s already meant to be there on board INS Kolkata. It can also go on board any other warship, INS Vikramaditya included. 3) Already done that several times before. 4) No. INS Kadamba is only a temporary base for this aircraft carrier & INS Vikramaditya will start making use of the naval base in Mumbai AFTER the INS Vikrant moves out from Ballard Pier for scrapping. Like all other warships, INS Vikramaditya too needs to undergo periodic refits/overhauls & the only available drydocks that are big enough to accommodate the INS Vikramaditya are available in only Mumbai & Cochin.
To MESSENGER@9.27PM: Your earlier comment had gone straight to the Spam folder for reasons unknown to me.
Hi Da,
Can you give us details about ( supposed ) detection range of Indian DRDO & Phalcon AWACS ? And where do they stand in comparison to Pakistan ( Sweden ), Chinese, Russian & US systems ?
Regards !
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/In-India-Japan-PM-Abe-hopes-to-conclude-first-defence-sale-in-40-years/articleshow/29306430.cms
http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/retooling-for-a-new-asia/0/
Prasun sir,
Thanks for explanation regarding the bureaucratic battles. It's now seems clear why everyone is clamoring that the DPSUs should be privatized. I guess the reason being that they would be able to better manage their revenue, and be less dependent upon the meager funds from the MOD. The surplus funds could then help DRDO instead. Am i right?
Also what should the Indian private industries be doing to alleviate the current situation?
Or are they only helpless spectators?
Sir,
What are the secrets of the Kanchan Armour?M1Abrahms have depleted uranium Armour,How can it be defeated?
How do you find the current configuration of Arjun MK2 " https://imageshack.com/i/1a9ihsj".Can it be made equivalent to M1Abrahms.
Sir,
1.The 1st 20 Tejas mk1 will be built to IOC standards.In IOC the cannon hasnt been integrated.So will the 1st 20 Tejas have no Gsh-23 cannon armament ?
2.Sometime ago DAC cleared the procurement of around 220 T-90 for the proposed independent armoured brigades to be based in NE and in Ladakh. When did Mod cleared the rest of the 350 T-90AM as you had said ?
3.Havent all Vijayantas that were in reserve phased out of service ?
4.Has IN HQ selected the heavy weight torpedo for arming Kolkata class,Shivalik class and the upcoming P-15B and P-17A ? When will this new torpedo be ordered?It seems that when INS Kolkata and the 2nd ship of this class will be commissioned into IN they will be devoid of their torpedo armament if the orders arent placed soon .
5.Why didnt IN place orders for atleast 2 more or 3 Arihant class SSGN? Any SSN procurement and their entry into service will take another 6 years in the very minimum. Instead some more Arihant class could be ordered as a stopgap measure.Since the Arihant production line has picked up speed the subsequent vessels will be delivered in a shorter period of time.
The same could have been done with Kolkata class DDG.Another 2-3 could have been ordered. Ordering just 3 vessel of any class doesnt make any particular sense.
6.There were plans for subjecting the 1st 330 T-90S to deep upgrades and bring them to AM standards.What about it ? And are there plans of upgrading the Bhisma fleet to AM standards.
7.Drdo has been launching one after other Agni and Prthvi series of missiles. But it is absolutely mum about PDV 1st test launch.Has the BMD phase 2 project gone into hibernation ? Or has there been any launches away from the public eye and it ended in a failure ?
8.How many KS-1A launchers and missile rounds did Myanmer army order?
Prasunda, MoD has barred Finmeccania from participating in Defexpo-2014 as reported by TOI.Also,recent clearance to procure 98 Black Shark torpedo from WASS is put on hold.Another major blow to modernisation of Indian Armed Forces.
I also do not think that India can get anything worthwhile out of the ToT in Rafale deal. So India should drop that and also such other portions with corresponding reduction in the payments and purchase these off the shelf to control the otherwise negative consequences. For any R&D expertise that is required they shall concentrate on the oncoming FGFA or the AMCA if any.
Looks like someone has been reading the contents of this blog & deriving possible marketing ideas. Read this:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/us-firm-offers-vvip-choppers-to-india-475068
Also, the Govt of India has lodged a protest with Islamabad for an 'incident' during which the Pakistan Navy's PNS Shah Jehan FFG came dangerously close to the IN flotilla that was escorting INS Vikramaditya in the Arabian Sea.
Meanwhile, the IN's MiG-29Ks have already commenced flying 'bolters' over the top-deck of INS Vikramaditya & by the end of next month, Dr MMS will spend a day-at-sea on board this vessel.
Lastly, A K 'Saint' Antony has constituted yet another committee to suggest which entity--HAL or a private-sector--should be the preferred choice for teaming up with Japan's Shin Maywa Corp for licence-assembling the SS-3 amphibian.
Prasun Da ,
Will all due respect to C Raja Mohan and other such "Analysts" who write in national newspapers predicting that there could be military skirmish between Japan & China tend to forget that bilateral trade between Japan & China is worth $350 billion annually .
Why on earth would two mature countries decide to destroy this flourishing trade relation by going to war ?
China may attack Phillipines and the US will be able to do NOTHING about it .
But to think of a military confrontation between Japan & China is basically mental mustarbation.
Thanks,
Sujoy
To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: I totally agree. This is wishful thinking on his part & reflects an utter lack of intellectual depth.
sir,
1)Is the 'incident' with PNS Shah Jahan anything like the nato snooping?
2)sir a video link on northeast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCt87g_AFX4 a talk by GK pillai ex-Secretary MHA.Do share your thoughts.
3)What do you make of the attempt of the luyten's delhi elite and intellectuals effort to get anybody as PM but modi?Do you think they will succeed?
Regards
@Prasun
You've been very critical of DPSUs. How do you explain the successful state owned Chinese PSUs which are giving world renowned MNCs a run for their money? Don't you think that our DRDO, HAL etc. should be modelled (which actually they are) along the lines of NORINCO? Why is the Govt so desperate to rope in extremely corrupt Pvt Cos in defense particularly when they've nothing to contribute expect as another middlemen? And I would request you not to delete my post as they are not abusive but raise a critical question.
Dear Prasun,
In your post, you picked holes in China's DF-21D ASBM threat. You argued that China needs 130+ satellites for effective targeting an aircraft carrier battle group. The link is:
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com.au/2013_09_01_archive.html
But other Indian experts from Indian NIAS refute your skepticism about DF-21D, with credible evidence. See:
http://isssp.in/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Yaogan-and-ASBM-December-2013-Update.pdf
Now what you have to say? Seems those Professors sound more convincing than your half-baked, ill-informed, pseudo-technical and constantly shifting opinion?
Will you accept that you were wrong, will any Indian ever do that except dishing out jingoism???
Chinese people create big things but always be modest, we follow Deng Xiaoping's advice. Indians can't even make rifles or artillery guns, but compete in building stealth aircraft and nuclear submarines. They fail miserably but not in bragging all time!!!
tsk tsk tsk.
Prasunda,
What is the status of the following:
1. INS Vikrant (New)? What is causing the delay or the work is in full progress?
2. LPH contract? When will they open the bids?
3. AVRO replacement? Will India still go ahead with LM/Tata Offer for C-130 production in India?
4. Project 75I subs? Any clarity yet what Navy wants?
5. It seems India is discussing the domestic production contract of US-2 aircraft of Japan. Is it true?
6. DAE secretary mentioned that nuclear energy from kudankulam was going to be available for 3.5 to 4 rupee. While Areva is asking for 9 rupee per unit and Westinghouse for 12 rupee per unit. In comparison, Bhakhra Nangal gives electricity at about 40 paise per unit. Will India still import nuclear reactors? Why can't it enlarge existing indigenous 700 MW PHWR reactors into 1400MW or 1700 MW ones?
Thanks
Dear Sir
The IAF or MOD has NOT Denied
Mr Ajay Shukla's report on PAK FA / FGFA
And Now WESTERN Media has picked up on this story and started Ridiculing PAK FA
Do nt You think It will spoil Indo Russian relations
AT least MOD / IAF should issue a
Clarification
Prasun Da ,
Just another reminder how dependent Indian law enforcing authorities are on the US to arrest hackers .
http://thehackernews.com/2014/01/cbi-arrests-indian-mastermind-behind.html#
Regards,
Vikram
sir,
is this true or is it another pearl of wisdom by a certain journo.
http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/pentagon-report-indian-navy-s-new-submarine-hunter-ineffective-114012500673_1.html
To THAKUR: Instrumented detection/tracking range envelopes for various AEW & CS platforms depend on their optimum cruising altitudes, which are no means uniform. Turbofan-powered platforms will cruise at a much higher altitude than turboprop-powered platforms & will therefore offer superior capabilities.
To Anon@8.16PM: All those will be answered when you post with a proper handle, instead of posting as ‘Anonymous’.
To AUTHOR: The secret lies in the armour composition, layer by layer, of different types of alloys & composites. The Arjun’s latest ‘avatar’ as shown by the DRDO exhibit during the RDP rehearsals is an attempt to make the MBT into a jack-of-all-trades by arming it with Lahat cannon-launched projectile & its optronic fire-control system, plus a heavy RCWS containing a 12.7mm MG that’s used mostly for anti-aircraft fire. Then there are the ERA tiles & TWMP. Left to me, I would have optimised the MBT design for taking on only hostile MBTs, & not attack helicopters of fixed-wing combat aircraft. Consequently, instead of the ERA tiles, I would have gone for composites-based appliqué armour fitments, done away with the LAHAT/CLGMs, retained the TWMP, chosen a lightweight RCWS (like what’s on board the T-90AM), chosen an avtive protection system for installation, & instead of the COAPS, would have installed the very same panoramic commander’s fight that has been co-developed by CVRDE & IRDE for retrofit on the IA’s existing T-90S MBTs. For combating the threat posed by attack helicopters, the IA’s MBT formations & units will in any case always be accompanied by LUHs & helicopter-gunships armed with Mistral ATAMs, so why equip the Arjun with LAHAT/CLGM & 12.7 anti-aircraft MG???
To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Cannon integration will take place by the SP-series MRCAs are ready for delivery. 2) 220 forms part of the 350-unit package. They’re not two separate procurements. 3) No way. They have enough life left in them to be operable till 2025, just like the 130mm SP Catapults are good to go till 2030. Up to 600 Vijayantas were retrofitted with MTU diesel-engines & RENK gearboxes between 1989 & 1994. 4) Not yet. The Black Shark is still competing against the SeaHake since the Varunastra has yet to be cleared for service-induction. 5) Three such vessels have been ordered: S-2, S-3 & S-4. 6) Not to AM standard, but to a standard devised by a team from the IA, CVRDE & IRDE. 7) There are still some R & D hurdles to be cleared for both the PDV & the target engagement algorithms of the LRTR. 8) 18 TELs each with two MR-SAMs + another 36 missile reloads.
To UJJWAL: That’s surely an idiotic move, to say the very least, since Finmeccanica is only a holding company & is not an OEM by any stretch of the imagination. In previous Aero India & DEFEXPO expos, OEMs like Selex-Galileo, WASS, Agusta-Westland & OTOBreda used to exhibit their products at Finmeccanica’s pavilion. Fincantieri & Elettonica SpA (also part of Finmeccanica) had their own separate booths, while Selex-Galileo also exhibited in a booth it shared with Data Patterns Pvt Ltd. Now, WASS, Selex-Galileo, AgustaWestland, OTOBreda & Fincantieri are now free to exhibit at their own booths, thereby doing away with the need to exhibit under Finmeccanica’s umbrella. Problem solved & a big egg on St A K Antony’s face!!!
To Mr.RA 13: Of course there will be ToT, but that ought to be in the arena of through-life MRO to ensure fleet serviceability, plus selective indigenisation of only those rotables, consumables, lubricants & additives which will be required in large numbers. But clamouting for ToT to build airframes, engines, hydraulics, & high-end avionics is a sheer waste of money.
To VIKRANT: 1) Something like that. 2) VMT for sharing that link. It only goes to underscore what I have stated several times before, i.e. Delhi has never comprehended the importance of these North-Eastern states & has therefore disregarded their sensitivities. In addition, efforts to convert these wandering tribals into settled communities were half-hearted. Also, had transportation infrastructure been vastly improved by the 1970s, this alone would have created enormous job opportunities for the locals there, in addition to ushering healthy & consistent GDP growth-rates in each of these states.
To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Cannon integration will take place by the SP-series MRCAs are ready for delivery. 2) 220 forms part of the 350-unit package. They’re not two separate procurements. 3) No way. They have enough life left in them to be operable till 2025, just like the 130mm SP Catapults are good to go till 2030. Up to 600 Vijayantas were retrofitted with MTU diesel-engines & RENK gearboxes between 1989 & 1994. 4) Not yet. The Black Shark is still competing against the SeaHake since the Varunastra has yet to be cleared for service-induction. 5) Three such vessels have been ordered: S-2, S-3 & S-4. 6) Not to AM standard, but to a standard devised by a team from the IA, CVRDE & IRDE. 7) There are still some R & D hurdles to be cleared for both the PDV & the target engagement algorithms of the LRTR. 8) 18 TELs each with two MR-SAMs + another 36 missile reloads.
To UJJWAL: That’s surely an idiotic move, to say the very least, since Finmeccanica is only a holding company & is not an OEM by any stretch of the imagination. In previous Aero India & DEFEXPO expos, OEMs like Selex-Galileo, WASS, Agusta-Westland & OTOBreda used to exhibit their products at Finmeccanica’s pavilion. Fincantieri & Elettonica SpA (also part of Finmeccanica) had their own separate booths, while Selex-Galileo also exhibited in a booth it shared with Data Patterns Pvt Ltd. Now, WASS, Selex-Galileo, AgustaWestland, OTOBreda & Fincantieri are now free to exhibit at their own booths, thereby doing away with the need to exhibit under Finmeccanica’s umbrella. Problem solved & a big egg on St A K Antony’s face!!!
To Mr.RA 13: Of course there will be ToT, but that ought to be in the arena of through-life MRO to ensure fleet serviceability, plus selective indigenisation of only those rotables, consumables, lubricants & additives which will be required in large numbers. But clamouting for ToT to build airframes, engines, hydraulics, & high-end avionics is a sheer waste of money.
To VIKRANT: 1) Something like that. 2) VMT for sharing that link. It only goes to underscore what I have stated several times before, i.e. Delhi has never comprehended the importance of these North-Eastern states & has therefore disregarded their sensitivities. In addition, efforts to convert these wandering tribals into settled communities were half-hearted. Also, had transportation infrastructure been vastly improved by the 1970s, this alone would have created enormous job opportunities for the locals there, in addition to ushering healthy & consistent GDP growth-rates in each of these states.
To Anon@1.42PM: FYI China-based OEMs like NORINCO are no longer state-owned, rather they’re state-controlled, meaning the state has already undertaken strategic divestments in such OEMs, this being done by the late 1990s & these OEMs are presently all listed in the stock exchanges of HK SAR & Shanghai. Also, your airbrushing of all Indian private-sector companies as being corrupt is totally unjustified & legally untenable.
YANTUO: Despite your ‘modest’ protestations, it’s evident by your rants that you’re only exhibiting uncalled-for & needless outpourings of zenophobic nationalism (i.e. jingoism). Had you approached this subject from an objective standpoint, you would have asked me for my sources of data/information pertaining to the impossibility of an ASBM capability that I had previously highlighted. Professors & technocrats can always assert what’s theoretically possible, but which in reality is practically impossible. And this was proven at a seminar organised late last year in Delhi by a naval foundation in which concepts like ASBM & Air-Sea Battle were extensively discussed & deliberated. What I had done was merely reproduce some extracts from a particular seminar in which serving senior naval officials from Australia, India, the US & Japan had participated. Their informed opinions & operations analysis undoubtedly carry much more weight than any other civilian academician or technocrat. Then there are the laws of physics which dictate that only four SAR-equipped satellites (Yaogan 13, Yaogan 10, Yaogan 18 and Yaogan 14) can’t possibly scan the entire South China Sea, leave alone the Western Pacific. ELINT satellites are totally useless if any CBG manoeuvres while observing strict radio silence (i.e. emissions control). As for your brazen comments on comparisons between the military-industrial capabilities of the PRC & India, do I smell an element of envy or downright inferiority complex? I will conclude with some advice for you: assumption is always the mother of all fuck-ups.
Tsk tsk tsk.
To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: 1) It is still in the conceptual design stage. There’s no delay. 2) By the first quarter of this year. 3) Hopefully, since that’s the most realistic option when viewed from a techno-economic matrix standpoint. 4) Not yet. But three more Scorpene SSKs could well be ordered later this year. 5) Only licenced-assembly from knocked-down kits, since the IN requires about 15 such amphibians while the ICGS requires 36 of them. 6) Additional PWRs will be imported. Power generated by thermal powerplants in India costs about Rs6 per unit. In my view, only Russia-supplied 1,000mW PWRs need to be imported, & construction of indigenous 700mW PHWRs ought to be expedited.
To VIKRAM: By denying such news-reports, one only serves to accord a degree of credibility to them. Better therefore to keep quiet & make an official statement either during DEFEXPO or in Parliament in response to questions asked by MPs.
To VIKRANT: Of course it is utter hogwash. P-8A isn't the same as P-8I. The latter has additional sensors on-board, for starters. Furthermore, the algorithms used by the P-8Is' ASW sensors are still being fine-tuned & optimised while operating in distinct operational environments, as part of the pre-planned product improvement schedule already worked out between the navies of the US & India during contract signature. There has never been any airborne ASW platform that has delivered 100% on performance immediately after its delivery to any customer. ELINT, acoustic & surface target profiling/fingerprinting threat libraries require updating & rationalisation--a process that is time-consuming. Consequently, all identified systems optimisation goals of the P-8I will be realised only by late 2015.
Dear Prasun,
Have you any information about the present status of Long Range Cruise Missile and its Ramjet engine?
Dear Prasun,
Now the IAF is concerned about the FGFA. It is finding that stealth is not adequate. Again it doesn't want a craft that is second to Chinese/Pakistani; may be 2nd to USAF. Is is good option for India to pull out of the project and concentrate only on home grown AMCA? What is your view on FGFA and how it is compared to Chinese stealth technology???
Prasun sir I want to ask u that why indian air force raising so much question on fgfa..is fgfa is not compratively good to its rival..&sir according to you when mrca deal will sign??
Prasunda,
So this is wrong about Rafale?
http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report-dna-exclusive-100pct-price-escalation-on-rafale-fighter-aircraft-to-rs-1-75-lakh-crore-likely-to-dent-iaf-s-strike-capability-1957107
Everyone was wondering why the deal is not being inked. Its the same Scorpene story. Those conniving, duplicitous french agreed on lower price and once they won the bid, now they want double the price for a lousy fourth generation fighter.
Scrap the deal ASAP. Let them close down the production line, then we will buy the whole line after a few years.
All posturing was basically for fooling Indian people.
Prasun sir,
As you had requested, i am posting this and will post all future queries under this handle. With this said i'll ask my previous question again.
P.S there's another Anonymous gentleman, Anon@1.42PM, who was extremely critical of Indian private cos, that is not me (The cons of being anonymous!).
Thanks for explanation regarding the bureaucratic battles. It's now seems clear why everyone is clamoring that the DPSUs should be privatized. I guess the reason being that they would be able to better manage their revenue, and be less dependent upon the meager funds from the MOD. The surplus funds could then help DRDO instead. Am i right?
Also what should the Indian private industries be doing to alleviate the current situation?
Or are they only helpless spectators?
Sir,
Wishes to you and all other readers on the occasion of 64th Republic Day.
Glad you liked the link I shared,hers the follow up Q&A session
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORNBfgC6hQ
hope,we have more chaps like him who actually know a thing or two about the northeast.
1)Just as an extension do you think the NSCN talks fructifying in our lifetime.For God's sake let us get our act together in these provinces and others.
Dear Prasun,
Now there is news 100% cost escalation of Rafael jet fighters. Do you think that, it is still a good option forIAF to go for it. Instead it could be a better option to go for F-35 JSF. What is your view???
Dear Sir
Please get some news about Rafale
We defence enthusiasts have had
a SECOND Shocking news this week
That of Rafale deal in deep trouble due to cost escalation
First FGFA and Now RAFALE
IAF is F***ed up
Yet another instance of 'desi' yellow journalism at its very best!
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/01/frigate-ins-talwar-jinxed-second-time.html
Sir, arjun mk2 was unveiled today..
Is it the same arjun version u said u had the pics of..but cudn't upload..
Where is the mk1a ??
I am really confused abt different arjun variants..
To SNTATA: Matters are still in the conceptual design stage due to the DRDO’s constraints in terms of scientific human resources.
To SOUBHAGYA & ASHI JAIN: I fail to understand how exactly you can reach such a conclusion based on pure heresay that’s emanating from a particular ‘desi’ journalist who has not even bothered to speak to either the IAF or Russian military-industrial OEMs involved with the FGFA’s R & D effort. If you wish to remain so gullible, there’s nothing more I can do to explain what the reality is all about. How can anyone even make any realistic assessment of the FGFA’s RCS or stealth characteristics when not even a single prototype or full-scale RCS model of the FGFA has been fabricated to date? The IAF is certainly not so stupid so as to make the kind of unsubstantiated observations that are being attributed to it by one particular ‘desi’ journalist.
To RAJ, SOUBHAGYA & VIKRAM: How convenient it is for anyone to always squarely blame the foreign OEM!!! The Scorpene SSK’s project costs soared due to 1) the MoD’s insistence on licence-building all six SSKs instead of first learning how to build the first two of them at the foreign OEM’s shipyard. 2) The depreciation of the Indian Rupee. In case of the Rafale, the Rupee’s depreciation, coupled with the MoD’s insistence on licence-building the Rafales, can only result in unwanted project cost-escalations. Everyone knew about it in 2011 itself. The cost-escalation for the Eurofighter EF-2000 will be far greater, since in case of the Rafale, there’s only one prime contractor (Dassault Aviation) that needs to make a profit from this contract, whereas in case of the EF-2000 there will be four OEMs—EADS Cassidian, EADS-CASA, BAE Systems & Alenia Aeronautica—all of which will clamour for making healthy financial profits.
To VIKRANT: 65th RD, not 64th. In my reckoning, it is a very healthy trend nowadays to see former senior bureaucrats coming out with such explanations or penning their memoirs, & who are openly criticizing the past mistakes of previous central & state governments. 2) Talks with various separatist/insurgent groups are only meant to buy time for exhausting their will to resist, be it the NSCN or ULFA. That’s how groups like the MNF, Bodos, etc were neutralised.
To PRATEEK: What the DRDO presently refers to as Arjun Mk2 is referred to by the IA as Arjun Mk1A. The Army-specific Arjun Mk2 MBT has not yet been shown anywhere to date.
To VIDYUT: Well done indeed, for that’s the way to go! By strategically divesting from the DPSUs, the MoD should ensure that these DPSUs become fully public-listed corporate entities like L & T, Walchand Industries, TATA Group, etc. Only then will such corporate entities be able to deliver on time, at cost & will also be able to undertake extensive in-house R & D, which the likes of HAL, BEL, BEML etc have failed to do so thus far. Consequently, contrary to what many others wrongly believe to be the case, it is these DPSUs that have been the worst bloodsuckers, especially the MoD-owned shipyards whose skilled workers are always only seen to be working during their designated working hours, but who in reality do all the stipulated work afterwards just for claiming overtime!!! That’s what a true bloodsucking mindset is.
Prasun sir,
As always thanks for the answer.
Regarding our defense industrial complex:
If companies such as TATA and Mahindra have the capability, why don't they take the initiative in the current scenario for defense R&D? If the DPSU's are under performing and the MOD is apathetic, can't they ditch the DPSU and switch to already public listed corporate entities like TATAs etc?
What should the private Indian cos be doing now(needling the MOD, tying up with foreign defense corporations)?
How's the future for our nascent private defense companies? I'm seeing quite a few coming up.
@Prasun,
Did I say all Pvt Companies are corrupt? I've raised objection to MoD and our military along with media demonizing state owned institutions which have been created with tons of taxpayers' money and now when they are on the verge of success all of a sudden they become "inefficient" and therefore a perfect excuse to rope in extremely corrupt Pvt Cos which have a history of reaching where they are by purely playing the extremely corrupt system.
What is the background of Tata, Mahindra, Reliance etc. in defense? Absolutely nil.
It's also surprising that just after India awards the MMRCA contract to Rafale, France Reliance enters into JV with this firm and the head of Boeing, India joins Reliance.
The magnitude of corruption can be gauged by the Nira Radia episode where the Tatas, a group that tom toms values and ethics from it's rooftop indulging in doctoring the news of almost all news channels.
With regard to listing DPSUs in stock market, what are we going to achieve? Blue sky innovation takes time and money. Will any of our Pvt Company invest their own time and money on defense R&D?
These DPSUs were created for self reliance and towards this end they have done a fairly good job vis-a-vis Pvt Companies which are finding it difficult to fold on to the market share in India due to external competition.
I'm not against Pvt Companies entering defense sector. I'm against the way India's defense is becoming a way for corrupt people and companies to make money.
Classic example is Rafale acquisition where the Frogs simply want to circumvent real ToT to India as part of offset clause, by roping in Reliance , a corrupt company with no defense background, instead of HAL. And the media is completely mum about this as they in turn are owned or controlled by these huge monopolistic conglomerates.
I'd again request you not to delete this post but your views to my observation.
Prasun da,
one of the reasons perhaps the workers willing to do their stipulated work only in extra time is that the money alloted for human resource especially for contractual labour is low. I remember speaking to a an Mtech holder working on an assigned project for ISRO where she was paid only 1500 rupees a month. Regardless she completed the work thinking of the prestige in the national project, but again a second assignment was offered to her with the same salary which she rejected outright. This was 6 years back and may be things have changed. But i do think that if you want quality work you have to give quality salary. I also feel that in order to get the contract the PSUs quote far lower in human resources (to claim the lowest price in the world) and manage with hundred donkeys to do 1 lions work (no disrespect meant only colloqial phrase). Is this any possible reason.
Sreenivas R.
To VIDYUT: And what makes you think that the TATAs, MAHINDRAs & L & Ts haven’t yet taken the initiative in defence R & D? I have already given several times before several examples of what path-breaking R & D efforts they have done to date. And for the sake of Anon@2.13PM I will highlight them one last time. Over the past eight years at least, the DRDO has been more inclined to award prototype development & series-production contracts to the private-sector & it is due to the DRDO’s dogged insistence that private-sector companies like TATA Power SED, L & T, Godrej & Boyce, Walchandnagar Industries, etc etc have successfully delivered on time & at no extra cost. These companies, as well as their SME vendors, will have to take the next step forward by tying up with their foreign counterparts to become members of the global supply-chain, which in turn will expose them to the best business practices & also help them acquire cutting-edge technologies & manufacturing skills. In many cases this is already happening & that’s the reason why OEMs like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems, L-3 MAPPS, EADS etc have already set up India-registered subsidiaries.
To Anon@2.13PM: In case I deleted your posts previously, it was because you didn’t bother to use a decent handle & kept posting as ‘Anonymous’, & not because I wanted to shy away from a debate, kindly rest assured. To add to what I’ve explained above to VIDYUT, NONE of the DPSUs have to date achieved any meaningful breakthrough or success in any sector through in-house R & D insofar as indigenisation & innovation goes. These DPSUs were created ONLY FOR licence-building various types of products & have never achieved indigenisation even in this area. Now, for the R & D successes of private-sector companies, contrary to your once-again sweeping judgement of ‘NIL’, consider the following:
1) Back in the early 1980s, it was TIFR that produced the critical R & D breakthrough for networking technologies for the IA’s Project AREN tactical communications system.
2) It was TATA Power SED, not NPOL or NSTL or BEL, that developed the acoustics signal processor for the HUMSA-NG sonar. Similarly, TATA Power SED not only developed the Arjun MBT’s digital TFCS, but also did the same for the HVF-built T-90S MBTs. Similarly TATA Advanced Materials was the first to develop Kevlar inserts for BPJs way back in the early 1990s & was the first to develop all-composite airframe structures for Dhruv ALH & Tejas MRCA.
3) The DRDO chose Mahindra Defence for series-producing the NSTL-developed Marreech torpedo decoy-launcher while the MoD chose this same company for licence-building & servicing the AK-630M naval close-in weapon systems.
4) It was the DRDO that chose L & T for very obvious reasons to fabricate the S-2, S-3 & S-4 nuclear-powered submarines’ hulls & their integrated propulsion systems.
5) It was the DRDO that chose two private-sector companies from Pune & Delhi—and not the OFB--for series-producing HEMRL-developed BMCS modules on an industrial-scale.
I could go on & on & this will only produce an exhaustive listing of similar feats by private-sector companies & all of them will drive home the very same message: private-sector have & will continue to deliver on time & minus cost escalations, whereas the exact opposite holds true for the DPSUs.
To SREENIVAS R: Rs, 1,500 or Rs.15,000? The former sounds way too low. But you’re absolutely right about the prevailing practices in India WRT low wages, low motivation-levels & lack of academic & professional appreciation for high-end R & D. Only that can explain why till this day the Govt of India has been unable to create semiconductor foundries when their need has been felt since the mid-1980s.
To Anon@2.13PM: Here’s one more proof about the DRDO’s preference for working in partnership with private-sector vendors:
http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=826399
Prasun,
1) Where were the Renualt Sherpa trucks you said the SPG had bought along with the NSG- I didn't see a trace of them at the BTR or R-day events with the PM's motorcade.
2) In the case of another 26/11 type event anywhere in India would the NSG task force in Delhi be flown in the C-130J or C-17 as both are stationed in Hindon. Whilst the C-17 is a turbofan a/c and can lift more so can get their faster with more, the C-130J is the dedicated transport for Special operations. Both a/c have very good availability rates (higher than 85% ). Are there specific plans in place dictating which plane will be used?
To HOOLIGAN: 1) I’m sure the SPG’s Sherpas were safely tucked away somewhere on-site. After all, no proximate security force can be expected to publicly reveal all their wares. Even the sight of SPG personnel armed with FN-2000 SLRs in such close proximity to the PM was an extremely disgusting sight since it only served to indicate that the PM is someone under constant siege. No other world leader can be seen in the close company of such gun-totting personal security personnel. 2) Why only IL-76MD or C-130J or C-17A? During such an emergency, the first priority should be to fly out ASAP & this can be done only by civilian airliners that already have readymade flight-plans that have to be filed with ATC authorities. Without this, airborne navigation is IMPOSSIBLE. Even the IAF has to draw up & submit such flight-plans. That’s what typically delays the launch of a hostage-rescue mission. In a future scenario, the NSG’s first responders should be authorised to commandeer the first available civilian airliner as a chartered flight from Delhi—something that can be done within mere minutes. And this contingency should be routinely put to test during counter-terrorist exercises—something that has not yet been anywhere in India since 26/11.
Prasun,
Well the NSG DOES have the authority to commender any plane in India- this was put in place post 26/11. However a Military plane like the C-130J or C-17 is necessary for all the gear the NSG has to take with them- they can't be expected to merely travel with their personal gear. As I've been able to peice together the NSG test force from Delhi now travels with at least 2 vehicles- 1 Sherpa assault vehicle and 1 bomb-disposal truck/vehicle. Along with several tonnes of palatalised equipment. As such a Military a/c with a rear cargo hatch is really the ideal, if not, the ONLY a/c available to do the job properly.
The NSG does regualry practice this- well loading and prepping to go these days (post 26/11)- I know this for a FACT. in fact during the bomb blasts of 2011 in Mumbai, the NSG task force was sat in a IL-76MD on secondment to the ARC (also located at IGI) waiting on the tarmac, ready to receive the call and go to Mumbai- they were stood down but it still demonstrates that they will favour a Military cargo plane.
And I was under the impression the Sherpas were to join the PM's Motorcade- didn't see that though.
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