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Thursday, July 21, 2016

High-Altitude Manoeuvre Warfare: Perpetuating Unparalleled Feats-1

India’s armed forces, that have since October 1947 frequently been tasked to achieve the impossible, have never failed to deliver, often going way above and beyond the call of duty by using the institutional genius of improvisation. It is due to this that the Indian Army (IA), ably supported by the Indian Air Force (IAF) enjoys the enviable and as-yet unmatched reputation of being the world’s only army to deploy and successfully employ armoured vehicles at forbidding altitudes (from 12,000 feet till 16,000 feet ASL). The following slides explain all this with great clarity, especially during the conflicts of 1947 and 1962, plus contingency deployments in 1987 and 2008.   
It was in the last quarter of 1986 that the IA, under OP KARTOOS, temporarily had six T-72M1s airlifted to Leh along with a regiment of BMP-2 ICVs for deployment in Chushul Finger Area and Spanggur Gap. Since the conduct of OP KARTOOS, the IA’s Karu-based 3 ‘Trishul’ Division had until 2012 just one mechanised infantry regiment—1 Guards—with 52 BMP-2s. This regiment used to carry out regular manoeuvre warfare exercises in the Wari La region in Pangong, which is located at an altitude of 16,600 feet ASL. The IAF too has built a makeshift airstrip in Mud Village near Pangong.
The People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) posturing to test Indian control of the strategic Finger Area in northern Sikkim in 2008 prompted the IA in early 2009 to deploy T-72M1s and BMP-2s strengthen defensive positions. In fact, the highest gallantry award to a Border Roads Organisation (BRO) personnel was conferred upon a dozer operator, Zalim Singh, who had cleared a strategic road near Theing village. He was decorated with a Bar to Shaurya Chakra—for clearing a path for the armoured and mechanised infantry regiments. While the IA had introduced the BMP-2s in the northern Sikkim plateau in the late 1980s, the T-72M1s were deployed after repeated PLA transgressions throughout 2008 in the Finger Area, a 1km stretch of land in the northern tip of Sikkim that overlooks a valley called the Sora Funnel, and which is considered a strong defensive position. The T-72M1s were inducted after a monumental effort by the BRO to widen roads, construct tracks and strengthen bridges leading to northern Sikkim. The T-72M1 regiment was taken up the high plateau by truck-pulled trailers. This followed a discovery by the IA of the alignment of a new East-West road then being built by Beijing would pass thorough the Finger Area. Construction by China of this road was halted after New Delhi lodged a diplomatic complaint.
Looking To The Future

(to be concluded)


DAshu said...

sir you are a knowledge powerhouse and your habit of sharing them with us is commendable and appreciable.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To DASHU: VMT. For more steriods, kindly watch these:

Pakistani analysts admitting last night about how & why Pakistan's Kashmir policies have all backfired & will continue to do so:

China's Options After South China Sea Verdict:

What does an average citizen of J & K in the town of Gurez think about India:

sbm said...

As usual great stuff. BTW - finding the IDSA scholars remarkably realistic and forward thinking. Don't know what I was expecting but pleasantly surprised!

Will I ever see the Rafale in IAF colours and will it be 36 or 189?

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun, According to NDTV IAF is minutes away from launching a strike in Pakistan,is this a true news? If such situation arises today does IAF has the capability to destroy Paki spada 2000,crotale,FM-90 and HQ-2? VINOD KUMAR

The Indian said...

Prasun ,
Good article. The Indian armed forces have sometimes achieved the impossible in feat of arms as well as other tasks allotted to it by our government from time to time. Despite this can you please throw some light on why the entire ministry the bureaucrats etc are totally anti armed forces.The way the successive pay commissions have downgraded the poor soldiers worth , the way that the OROP issue has been dealt with and totally blown out of all proportion,the way totally negative comments about the forces are emanating from the powers that be ,trying to suppress the self esteem of the armed forces despite them having done a good job everywhere required when detailed is something I fail to understand.The seventh pay commission has turned the poor armed forces into literally just another paramilitary force. Why so much hostility!Can you please shed some light on this issue Every country less India respects its armed forces . Here the country couldn't care less and the bureaucrats are ENEMY NO1 of the armed forces! Why so?Perhaps it may be my perception.


Dear Prasun,

Recently 10 CRPF personnel lost their lives in fighting against Maoist. Does it validate their claim that CRPF personnel are chickens for them. They can kill the way they want. Does life come so cheap for CRPF??? I am depressed.

Vikram Guha said...


(1) Can you please provide some information about the SHAURYA missile? IOW when can we expect it to be inducted? Induction timelines have been postponed on a regular basis.

(2) UK Defense Minister told their Parliament that their £1bn destroyers will break down if they are send to the Mid-East because of the warm water. So assuming Indian destroyers (Kolkata, Vishakapatnam) are send to countries where the sea water is cold, will they break down as well? I am assuming Indian destroyers,frigates are made keeping warm water in mind but then, the engines are coming from Europe.



Senthil Kumar said...

Dear Prasun,

Is Russia Supplying MIG 29 to Egypt Air force. Or for any other customer? I don't want Russia to supply it to Paki.

S.Senthil Kumar

Arh93 said...

Prasun,da (1)can Drdo turn ATAGS into a mounted gun system like CAESER? (2)Those tank units deployed in leh ladakh do they carry any manpad like Igla for protection? (3)How useful Zsu-23-4, Tunguska, L-70 in those high alti areas as counter Pgm weapon.

Anonymous said...

Sir what is your opinion on this paper

Nixon was personally fond of Yahya Khan, and seems to have hated Indians, whom he called “slippery, treacherous people.” Of Indira Gandhi, he was recorded as saying, “The old bitch. I don’t know why the Hell anybody would reproduce in that damn country, but they do.”

I see this sort of behavior even now. The west seems to think Paks are like them and really be-friend them and treat Indians has something else. They are fascinated by them. I don't get it why?


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: VMT. But don't you think these 'remarkably realistic and forward thinking IDSA scholars' should be in a better position to answer that question? If not, of if they can't, then kindly do revert back to me.

To VINOD KUMAR: All those tit-bits from NDTV are being selectively released as part of a grand documentary that channel is preparing for the July 29 Vijay Divas celebrations. Hence, all contextualisation is missing from these tit-bits. For starters, how can an offensive air campaign over Pakistan or PoK could have been mounted when from the outset the Govt of India had decreed that the LoC was not to be crossed?

To THE INDIAN: The bureaucracy is not anti-armed forces. The bureaucracy in any country never makes or formulates policy. It only implements. What this means is that policy formulation is the job of Ministers of the Govt of India led by the PM. Unless this political class passes directives, the bureaucracy cannot engage in policy implementation. So, just like economic reform, structural administrative reforms have to be initiated & directed from the top, i.e. by the executive branch of the Govt of India. So, as I have repeatedly stated several times before, the executive branch should re-write the rulebook called Rules of Business of the Govt of India & make the Defence Minister responsible & accountable for the defence of India. Presently, that is not the case & it is only the Defence Secretary that's responsible (but not accountable) for the defence of India.

To SOUBHAGYA: Everytime this happens, it happens because the SOPs were not adhered to. This in turn is indicative of lack of discipline.

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) Shaurya was just a technology demonstrator. The IAF prefers LACMs like Nirbhay & BrahMos-A/BrahMos-NG. 2) Breakdown occurs not only in propulsion systems, but electrical systems as well. Engines & gearboxes never break down due to changes in temperature-levels. But electrical systems do due to levels of high humidity or extreme cold. But these problems have all been overcome for warships built in India. Only those warships of Russian origin (like INS Vikramaditya & Type 877EKM SSKs) will face such problems. Even warships of European design but built in India are ruggedised.

To S SENTHIL KUMAR: Yes, the customer is Egypt, nothing secretive about that.

To ARH93: 1) Yes, if need be, but it will take 10 years to achieve this feat. 2) Of course. But what's the service ceiling of a MANPADS? 3) Depends on the service ceiling of the engagement envelopes of such weapons.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

In case anyone missed this:

Prav said...

@Arh 93 .. None of those can be used as counter PGM.. Even the Pantsir cannot perform this role.The IA uses ZSUs to target bunkers as with it's optics it can put autocannon shells through the vision slits in a bunker ,

sbm said...

Prasun, the IDSA guys are surprisingly nuanced. Some new guys have joined and the Far East section has a good grasp of politics and Dr. Balachandran is always good to talk to. Others have a remarkable grasp of Africa (I'm not exactly backward there either). Internal Security section is excellent. Col. Vivek Chadha is always interesting.

But, very weak on military areas though. Very, very weak. One guy was doing work on tech transfers and didn't know that there was tech transfer for the MAG machine gun. OFB rep was flabbergasted.

I asked them - not a single one can tell the difference from Rafale and Rafael! But the current DDG is in favour of the Gripen (why?).

One who writes on military/ nuclear issues didn't know the IA ordered 334,000 CBRN IPE sets in 2002.

That said, given the writing, I expected less and am pleasantly surprised.

So to my question - will it be 36 or 189 Rafales ?

BTW - after the 334,000 order for IPE, did the IA do repeat orders for respirators and suits?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: LoLz! When was the first time when the IDSA was headed by a PhD holder? Why have retired Air Commodores, naval Commodores & Ambassadors been heading IDSA over the past several years? It's elementary: it is just a place for retired officials to park themselves. Same is the case with all other Delhi-based think-tanks, most of which are funded with grants from either the MoD or MEA. Retired officials drive in from Gurgaon & NOIDA in the morning, enjoy theirf brunches & luncheons & high-tea, & drive back home thinking that another 'productive day' has passed by. And from time to time those foreigners visiting from the US or Europe express their total disdain for their Indian counterparts. Then there are those pseudo-intellectual yuppies who go grasshopping & sniff a little from magazines & a little from blogs like this one & end up writing books on subjects like India's SSBN programme while conveniently overlooking that its just not about SSBNs, but the SSBN/SSN combination. Simply put, folks 'assuming' that they have done 'exhaustive research' in this manner can pass on as domain experts & hope that in the end they will get a fellowship in some US-based think-tanks. And believe it or not, a few of these pseudo-intellectuals have indeed succeeded! This is a well-lubricated business & vicious cycle that's being perpetuated within the National Capital Region.

CBRN respirators & suits have limited shelf-lives & it is logical that the stocks will be replenished from time to time based on usage levels. Not just the IA, even CISF has them.

As for Rafale, universal rules of business dictate that a small order can always be negotiated & fulfilled within a 2-year period, starting from the first marketing presentation & ending in contract signature. A large volume order takes a proportionately longer time to be processed since life-cycle costs for the hardware & its supporting infrastructure need to be computed & the supporting military-industrial infrastructure too needs to be created. All this takes time because long gone are the days when the USSR used to dabble with friendship price-levels & Rupee-Rouble trading practices. Therefore, benchmarking the present-day practices with those during the Cold War era don't & won't work.

Arh93 said...

Thank's for the info Prasunda and also Prav. So what IA can deploy and use in those high altitude areas to protect its armour and equipment from Chines pgb/pgm strikes?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARH93: Exactly what kind of PGMs you reckon can be used at those altitudes? ATGMs? LGBs? NLOS=BSMs?

prateek said...

sir, while it is widely accepted that the indian army is a thoroughly professional, competent, well trained force which can handle all challenges thrown at it..but lately IA has been too bogged down by internal security duties & is grossly over-manned.

I wanted to know the capabilities of Indian CAPFs & how professional these forces well trained these forces are, compared to their counter parts abroad.
don't u think we should only have 1 force for border security, instead of 3 ?
1 force for internal security, instead of any force available, in addition to crpf, of course.

these forces between them have hundred of training centres,, shouldn't somebody optimize these ? & to show for all this ..these forces somehow just dont seem up to the offence.. i am sure they do a tremendous job..but these forces are really not being optimised *& their capabilities are not being fully exploited..shouldn't somebody in MHA be doing something about it ?

Anonymous said...

what is your take on trump and Clinton obviously Bernie is best among all those but what if 1) trump got elected what repercussions would world face on climate deal,different sectors and middle east and esp Pak and Ind?
2) Clinton got elected what repercussions would face world on climate deal,different sectors and middle east and esp Pak and Ind?


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRATEEK: The Assam Rifles too is a CAPF under Union MHA & it has been doing a wonderful job in the North East. For border security & border management along the demarcated & delineated international borders, only the BSF should be deployed. Along temporary ceasefire lines like LoC & LAC, only the IA must be deployed because along such lines, it is border domination that counts, not management or policing. Consequently, the SSB & ITBP must all be absorbed into the BSF as Regiments with their own regimental identity, but all following a single chain of command, i.e. that of the BSF. As for the CRPF, they are a thankless jack-of-all-trades bunch & hence they're always at the receiving end when doing band-aid operations. For instance, the same lot now in J & K will be deployed in future somewhere else for combatting Maoists. And even when in J & K, they're denied decent accommodation facilities & thus they continue to live in tents for 6 months to 2 years. How can one then expect these CRPF personnel to be psychologically sound & mentally strong? Then there's the issue of domain specialisation: they're not trained in COIN missions. Had specialised units been raised to specialise only in COIN, then there would have been no need for raising the RR. Successive govts at the Centre have failed to see this reality staring at their faces & all are guilty of mishandling & dereliction of duty, including the present one. In addition, a whole range of non-lethal crowd-control technologies are available from countries like ROK that have amassed a wealth of expertise in this arena. Yet the Union MHA has been unaware of them since 2008. Lastly, the all-important domain of cyber warfare continues to be grossly neglected, leading to high possibilities for internal instability sparked off my disinformation being spread by various social media outlets. One cannot put all eggs into the basket of NTRO. Homeland security & military security are far too big to be handled entirely by NTRO.

Today the information warfare domain predominates everything else during peacetime. Hence an over-arching national policy on it is the need of the hour. If not, then Indian citizens will continue to make fools of themselves, as was the case last night when the Al Jazeera anchorperson refused to use the term J & K state & insisted on using the term India-Administered Kashmir, with no Indian participant daring to correct her. This will now create a cascading effect in other spheres. Do watch this if you don't believe me: (watch from 10.00 till 11.02)

If the mandarins in the corridors of power in Delhi have watched this, then they should lodge a strong protest with the management of Al Jazeera TV, to say the very least, while also enclosing a copy of the UNSC Resolution of 1948 as proof of the Indian POV. If the Govt of India fails to do so within the next 24 hours, phir toh Bharat Maa ke liye Allah hi Hafiz hai!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

How Turkey's Attempted Coup Unfolded:

Soaring Number of Asylum Seekers from China:

How Pakistan Politically Disenfranchised PoK-1:

How Pakistan Politically Disenfranchised PoK-2:

Ludwig said...

Sir thoughts:

john said...


Could you please tell us what is the upgrade status of Mirage-2000 and Jaguar ?

When can we expect Su-30 to Super Sukhoi upgrade?.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun, Why Egyptian air force need so many sophisticated weapons like 24 rafale,46 mig-29m and s 300 air defence when they are already equipped with 220 f 16?,who is the threat for Egyptian security? Why numerically superior arab air forces prove no match for Israeli air force despite equipped with equally good equipment in all previous war? From where Egypt get money to purchase weapons? VINOD KUMAR

Arpit Kanodia said...


Maybe MEA released a statement on twitter handle.

"""""In response to a query on observance of "Kashmir’s Accession to Pakistan Day” (July 19) & ‘Black Day’ (July 20) in Pakistan and Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) the Official Spokesperson said:

"We have seen reports about rallies, events and statements related to Jammu & Kashmir in Pakistan and POK over the last two days. We have also noted that the events were led by UN-designated terrorists, who had in the past protested the elimination of dreaded terrorists including Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Akhtar Mansour in Pakistan.

India strongly condemns the encouragement and support which such terrorists and their activities receive from Pakistan’s state.

We once again ask Pakistan to stop inciting and supporting violence and terrorism in any part of our country and refrain from its deplorable meddling in our internal affairs in any manner.

The observance of "Kashmir’s Accession to Pakistan Day” exposes Pakistan’s longing for the territory of Jammu & Kashmir. India demands that Pakistan must fulfil the obligation to vacate its illegal occupation of POK.

It must also stop misleading the international community and Kashmiris through meaningless exercises such as the so-called elections today in POK which Pakistan ironically calls ‘Azad’ (free).

In view of the threats of marches and protests at the High Commission of India in Islamabad, we ask the Government of Pakistan to ensure full safety and security of the High Commission, all its officials and their families in Pakistan.”

New Delhi
July 21, 2016"""""

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARPIT KANODIA: That MEA statement was targetted at Pakistan's decision to celebrate July 21 as 'Black Day'. It had nothing to do with Al Jazeera.

rad said...

hi prasun
report suggest that arihant is on operational missions. Will the desi based BMS torpedos and sonars be as good as the latest scorpene submarine .Will the navy accept any thing less than that.?
Have russian sensors and torpedos been fitted as an alternative as the sub based varunastra is not ready yet.?
Will europeans object to their systems to being fitted on our nuke sub. Is amur sub a good proposition viz a viz the western subs?.

Ved said...

Prasun any update on INS Arihant? No news of its commissioning!!

Also need to know which torpedo is selected for INS Arihant.

Vikram Guha said...


(1) Is there a possibility that India will be able to develop the technology to design engines for warships?

(2) As far as IDSA is concerned I am not goona pull any punches. IDSA is composed of swarthy fraudsters, con artists and lecherous predators who pass themselves of as experts.
Consider this, if you have a question for these experts related to a topic about which they have not published an article in the past they don't even acknowledge the question.
It's not without reason that IDSA is based in the city of conmen - Delhi. I suspect Delhi Govt. has legalized weed in Delhi & these a-holes from IDSA smokes it every time before providing their advice.



sbm said...

Prasun, forget the top brass. Look at Dr. Arpita Anant's excellent monograph on alienation in J&K. Look at Ruchita Beri's work on India-Africa relations and Dr. Udai Singh's work on the Far East esp the Pacific Islands and Dr. Balachandran's work on NSG and other nuclear issues. Vivek Chadha on internal security and Prabha Rao who is quite the firebrand cop. These are the people doing good work.

What is very weak is the military cell and the US/ Europe cells. Right now, there is no Latin America cell (guess who fills that right now).

I would also suggest, having interacted with them, that the quality of the US think tanks is very uneven too. Inflated egos and arrogance abounds. There are really good people too. I guess this mix is inevitable.

WRT Rafale, I am hearing all kinds of things. From 189 to 36 to cancel the thing. What's going on ? Ashley Tellis, the Konkani Quisling, is pushing for US planes (30 pieces of silver?)

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun, Congress leader Scindia demanded referendum in Kashmir,what happened with congress leadership? Why they are doing anti national politics? first Rahul Gandhi supported JNU deshdrohis and now this idiot Scindia speaking like Hurriyet leaders. VINOD KUMAR

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun, Nawaz said that he is waiting for the day when Kashmir join Pakistan, why this puppet having wet dreams at this age is there something wrong with him? VINOD KUMAR

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VINOD KUMAR: Referendum is totally different from plebicite. The former is far bigger in scope & content & therefore is not about switching nationalities, but more about choosing the optimum of local self-governance that is being practised by each & every state of India at the moment.

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) Why not. It all boils down to R & D funding availability. You may be surprised to learn that only 0.9% of India's GDP is devoted to R & D purposes & the great bulk of this is devoted to figuring out what has already been discovered elsewhere abroad.

To VED: Because it has not yet been commissioned. HWTs to be used are of Russian origin & you will find their details in the thread dealing with the Arihant sometime in the year 2013 or 2014.

To RAD: Nope. The CMS & related systems on the S-2/Arihant cannot match those of the Scorpene SSK in terms of sophistication. There was never a submarine-launched version of the Varunastra under development. The Takshak R & D project was cancelled for this very reason. S-2/Arihant already has US-made & France-made systems/sensors. Had explained & illustrated all this several times before. How can Amur 1650 SSK be a viable option when the Ruskies themselves have refused to induct it into service?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: Regretfully, you are missing the woods for the tress. Based on my interactions since 1987 with various Indian & non-Indian think-tanks & their academic faculties, I can safely conclude that there is ONE HUGE DIFFERENCE between the Indian academicians & their US counterparts: the former are denied access to official military/civilian archival materials for historical analysis, whereas the latter are given almost full access to even intelligence inputs but before that they have to take the oath of secrecy. Therefore, US academicians seamlessly rotate between academic stints & government service. Today's academician in the US can tomorrow easily become a full-time staffer in the US State Dept, US Defense Dept, the NSC, the CIA & the DIA. And after doing their stint within various govt agencies/depts, they are at ease when reverting back to academic think-tanks.

Consequently, when visiting US scholars interact with their Indian counterparts, the latter perceive the former to be arrogant simply because the former is far more enlightened & informed about current affairs due to their far greater access to official govt documentation & intelligence inputs/analysis. And since the latter by nature are an emotional lot & prefer to use their hearts & not their brains for thinking matters through, objectivity disappears. That's the grim, hard reality.

But since you are seemingly enamoured by these 'desi' academicians, kindly ask them the following:

1) What was the strategic rationale for initiating the annual Amarnath yatra process since the 1990s?

2) What's the core economic reason for alienation of the natives residing in the southern part of the Valley of Kashmir?

3) Which districts are under the jurisdiction of AFSPA?

4) To whom do the terms 'militants' & 'terrorists' apply?

Kindly revert back if you succeed in getting some straight answers from these 'desi' academicians.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VINOD KUMAR: He's having such wet-dreams because his country's Constitution's Article 257 dictates that he continues to have such wet-dreams.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

At at about 8.30am on July 22, 2016 an upgraded IAF An-32RE tacdtical transporter with registeration number K-2743, with 29 on board took off from Tambaram AFS in Chennai for INS Utkrosh in Port Blair in the Andaman & Nicobar Islands when it lost ATC contact at 8:46am, 16 minutes after takeoff. Its estimated time of arrival in Port Blair was 11.30am. The last ATC contact with the ill-fated An-32RE was made at 8.36am, following which the aircraft plunged 23,000 feet after making a left turn at around 151 nautical miles east of Chennai before vanishing from Chennai’s ATC radar. The AN-32 was flying with the call sign AF-330 and was part of the IAF’s Sulur AFS-based 33 Squadron. . The Flight Captain was an of the rank of Flight Lieutenant while the co-pilot was an Flying Officer. There were 6 crew members (including 3 officers), 11 other IAF personnel (1 officer), 2 Army jawans, 1 Coast Guard sailor, 1 Navy sailor and 8 naval civilians. An-32RE K-2743 was overhauled at the IAF’s Kanpur-based 1 Base Repair Depot (BRD) in September 2015 and had since flown 279 hours. Three technical snags were reported in this aircraft in July 2016 itself. The throttle movement was reported as sluggish on July 2, while on July 7 a hydraulic leak was reported from the port wing-root. Another snag reported on July 14 pertained to pressure-leak from the portside front door. The An-32RE can fly for up to four hours without refuelling. The TTSL of an An-32B is 20,000 flying hours or 25 years, with 15,000 landings. As of now, 101 An-32s are in service out of the 116 ordered in 1984. Service life-extension and upgradation of the An-32B fleet began in 2010 under a US$398 million (Rs.1,965 crore) contract inked with Ukraine in June 2009, and the first 40 upgraded and reburbished An-32REs arrived from Kiev in Ukraine between 2011 and 2015. Ten An-32Bs were concurrently upgraded and refurbished by 1 BRD. The An-32REs come fitted with enhanced ground proximity warning systems, new Telephonics weather radars and Garmin GPS receivers. The last crash involving an An-32B was in 2009 in which the aircraft went down soon after taking off from the Machuka advanced landing ground (ALG) in Arunachal Pradesh. Prior to that was a crash in Delhi in 1999, which killed 21 people.

Probable Cause of Latest Crash: Catastrophic hydrailic failure due to malfunctioning hydraulic pressurization system, which led to all control surfaces becoming unresponsive & this in turn caused a nose-dive and a simultaneous cabin de-pressurisation due to which the flight-crew were unable to send out any emergency SOS messages. Only an examination of the aircraft’s MRO logbooks will reveal if there was any human error among ground support crew at Sulur AFS, or human error at 1 BRD, or installation of malfunctioning hardware supplied by the Ukraine-based OEMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

The arseholes are now trying to do in the southwest what they tried across the IB in Jammu:

Iranian authorities arrested 40 suspects linked to the discovery of an underground tunnel in the country’s far east, near the Pakistani border, the official IRNA news agency reported on July 21, 2016. The report said those arrested belong to a “terrorist group” but did not identify the group. It quoted Interior Minister Abdolreza Rahmani Fazli as saying the subterranean tunnel discovered two nights ago was meant for “carrying out attacks and militant activities.” Earlier in July 2016, four Iranian border guards were killed by gunmen near the Pakistani border. Security forces have also occasionally clashed with militants groups in the area believed to be affiliated with al-Qaida and which have claimed responsibility for several attacks in the past years. Most of the violence is focused in Iran’s eastern Sistan-Baluchistan province, which borders Pakistan’s southwestern Baluchistan province. Separately, the semi-official Tasnim news agency close to the powerful Revolutionary Guard forces, said police forces and the intelligence service jointly discovered the secret tunnel close to major military and security headquarters in the city of Khash. The report added that a raid at a house linked to the tunnel, which is 30 metres (yards) long, uncovered a booby-trap device, weapons and ammunition.

Pierre Zorin said...

Wet dreams sadly create embarrassment when woken up. This dream of Pakistan's being the new Caliphate - champion of their politico-religious agenda will cause their own demise. Not just excited over Kashmir now Pakistanis want kudos from Saudia by teasing Iran. This will only strengthen the resolve of the Iranians who won't tolerate interference faced with threats from the Sunni world and as you said Prasun, possibly in the near future Iran will have to front up to Pakistan and ask the US for arbitration. That only means China and Pakistan will be left with pants down and cunning a country China is , will remain silent, leaving its all weather friend exposed to the elements. Naturally by then, the Saudis will provide plenty of free oil to lubricate the anal passages for what Pakistan deserves up its proverbial. Geez I must be getting carried away...hope this doesn't give me wet dreams!

rad said...

hi prasun

reports suggest that the Aridhman is bigger and can take more k-4 missiles and is better equipped . Does that that make sense.?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIERRE ZORIN: LoLz! In fact, both China & Pakistan are already being hauled to the dry-cleaners by countries such as Afghanistan, which became the first country AFTER India to voice grave concern about Pakistan's constant nuclear sabre-rattling:

" In a scathing attack on Pakistan last month, Afghanistan had said the killing of notorious terrorist leaders, including Osama Bin Laden and Mullah Mansour in "safe havens" in Pakistan, prove that it violated sovereignty of other nations and the county needs political will and not "nuclear deals or F-16s" to take action against terrorists." (

Meanwhile, at home the Defence Minister seems to have plenty of discretionary time available for wasting the Indian taxpayer's money & enjoying unique joy-rides like the one highlighted below, which is a first for any Indian politician (previously they used to undertake only aerial surveys of flood-hit & earthquake-hit areas):

And in New Delhi, innovative money-making rackets continue to sprout up from time to time:

And lastly there's this:

This is what happens when immature folks masquerading as politicians spend late-nights trying to learn about all about politicking by watching tele-series like HOUSE OF CARDS on NETFLIX!

To RAD: LoLz! It's as if a baseline design of a warship is first used to make a corvette, then a frigate & then a destroyer & culminating in a cruiser! So, kindly rest assured that nothing as spectacularly outrageous as this is happening in the arena of Made-in-India SSBNs.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,How IAF will induct new medium multi tasking fighter under MMRCA deal? rafale deal seems to be in trouble,what are the options for IAF? Will IAF induct 126 fighters? How IAF will achieve the required strength of 42 fighter squadrons? VINOD KUMAR

Senthil Kumar said...

Dear Prasun,

Is it possible for second coup in Turkey?

S.Senthil Kumar

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun, Why Press TV use the term pro-independence fighters for Kashmiri terrorists in their reports? VINOD KUMAR

Rustom said...

Hi Prasun,

I was going through one of your articles from 2012 on how China plans to wage its future border wars with India.

China plans to use its vast stockpile of conventional Nlos-bsm in massive fire assaults to destroy our forward formations in Ladakh and Uttarkhnd.
The PLA rocket forces have in their arsenal a plethora of Nlos-bsm and Tbm such as the CPMIEC P-20 which has a range of 70-270kms and carries a 200 kg warhead which may be a sub kiloton warhead or a HE or blast frag ,the B-611M which has a 280 km range and carries a 480 kg warhead. CPMIEC’s 2-tonne B-611M missile is designed to attack supply lines, warehouses, ballistic/cruise missile launch sites, SAM batteries, command-and-control centres, air bases, road/railway transportation hubs, and area targets in urbansurroundings. The other Nlosbsms are the SY-400,BP-12A and 150 km ranged P-12A.

The tank garrisions and troop concentrations in Ladakh will be juicy targets for their tbm and mbrls. How does the IA plan to protect its formations from such fire assaults and Nlos-bsms? Will a Bmd regiment comprising of endo atmospheric interceptors be deployed in these above mentioned areas? Can the to be procured Mrsam regiments equipped with the 90 km Barak-8 take care of all such tactical ballistic missiles and battlefield support missiles with a max 300 km range? Will the IAF launch Interdiction sorties over TAR to locat and destroy these mobile missile launchers in a manner similar to that flown by F-15E Eagles during Op Desert Storm?

As for the multitude of glide bombs and cruise missiles that the PLAAF wishes to field or are fielding in these TAR, will Spyder SR and Akash mk1 batteries be enough ?
Army HQ and airforce HQ must wargamethe scenarios where the PLA are resorting to massive volleys of these TBMs and they must induct the required air defense assets for force protection. As of now what type of air defense is the army fielding in Eastern Ladakh ?

Gopu said...

Good post. Did not know Gen Thimayya led the assault on Zoji La!

While the IA's expertise in improvisation is great, no amount of improvisation will ever match a determined adversary that has expertise in preparation.

What is the req firepower and hardware that IA needs for high-altitude warfare as a long-term solution? Do the T-72s really suffice for long-term deployment in mountainous areas, or is there a need to procure new firepower designed specifically for mountain warfare?

The Chinese want to operate on the principle of numerical superiority across several contact points. While the forces may have the airborne logistics to equalize numbers across one area of contact, the Chinese, if they wanted to cause serious harm, would try to exploit several points with superior amounts of firepower.

The saving graces are that IA has hardened, better trained troops, and that there will be better deployable airpower that can be leveraged.

Senthil Kumar said...

Dear Prasun,

T-14 Armata vs Merkava 4

Which is the best tank from your point of view.

S.Senthil Kumar

AKS said...
What are they smoking?

Amit Singh said...
What are they smoking?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AKS/AMIT SINGH: The very same thing that the writer of the following news-report was smoking:

ZDK-03 is NOT the KJ-200. The former is known as the Karakoram Eagle & has rotating antennae like that on the KJ-500, whereas the KJ-200 has an active phased-array radar similar to the ones on the EMB-145I being developed by CABS.

DAshu said...

Is there something more than what meets eyes in India refusing to extend visas of 3 journalists ??The subsequent desperate reactions by PRC through state run news agencies points to something fishy .

Gopu said...



DAshu said...

and one more , is it build up to the eventual 2018 friendly talk ?

Srinivasa Nanduri said...

HI Prasun,

For the last 15 days, many Indian news based websites have been spewing venom against India. Be it on Kashmir or now in Nepal. Former diplomats, journalists, you name it and you have it. Even Pakistanis have not been this critical of India i must say.

Sample this:

What does MK Bhadra kumar suggest. That we should not aspire and we should be let be tucked away and hyphenated back with Pakistan. Why are our media and intellectuals in the name of various rights always undermine our own nation. Yes wee have many issues and drawbacks are there, but every country has them. China has its own issues but we never here them so Rabidly discussed.

Your thoughts on this please.

Srinivasa Nanduri

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SRINIVASA NANDURI: Well (LoLz!)...what else can we expect from the likes of M K Bhadrakumar??? I have repeatedly exposed him both here in this blog as well as in several seminars in New Delhi WRT to his dire predictions about India's relations with Afghanistan & Iran, & India's great game stratagems being played out in Central Asia. Consequently, he has dropped that subject for further convoluted analysis, & has now latched on to this:

"Pro-China Nepali Prime Minister K.P. Oli has resigned and a pro-India leader is set to replace him. New Delhi seems to have played a role in bringing the ‘regime change’ in Kathmandu to serve its own interests. But as it happened with the new leadership in Sri Lanka, a pro-India leader in Nepal too may view China as the engine of growth for the Himalayan nation’s economy and seek partnership with Beijing to balance with India’s intrusive policies."

M K Bhadrakumar does not seem to realise that the history of any land is always determined by its geography, probably because he never was a student of economics. As a result, both Sri Lanka & Nepal have no other option but to seek social. religious & economic relationships with India. Fore it is only India's economic rise that will make the China-built Colombo Container Trans-Shipment Terminals financially viable, while for Nepal, China won't take the trouble of setting up oil refineries in environmentally fragile Tibet, nor will it be able to pump in oil & gas to Nepal from either Xinjiang or Sichuan or Yunan. Furthermore, anyone talking about Kathmandu now having a pro-India PM is spewing out pure hogwash because Prachanda is 100% pro-China & he has tremendous business interests through his offshore front companies located in Hongkong SAR.

As for the J & K issue, only those narrow-minded entities with short-term gains to pursue will spew out such pessimistic disinformation. One such example is Omar Abdullah, who now wants to make ill-advised political gains from recent events & that's why he never shies away nowadays from cynically & hypocritically claiming that it is a political crisis that demands a political settlement, while at the same time not explaining how exactly the youth hailing from the 4 southern districts of the Kashmir have the IQ or intellect to understand & make sense of the prevailing political complexities. For nature's law states that people become political aware & discerning only after crossing the age of 30.

lachit said...


unconfirmed reports just in that terror darling saeed hafiz and presstitude bakri dutt have decided to get married , the deal is almost final, only sticking point is the dowry (not to be confused with mahr)

concerned citizens have taken up the cause and are appealing to all Indian secularists / presstitudes to contribute towards funding bakri dutt prompt and permanent exit from India.

remember the future of u r childrens sanity while watching ndtv lies at ur hands .


spread the good news and our good fortune


Spykar said...


Regarding India's great game in Central Asia, can you elaborate on that?

Specifically on the INST Corridor. Seems that Iran, Azerbaijan & Russia has finally found a common ground and that the Bandar Abbass-Rasht-Astara route is scheduled to start operating in the coming mnths. With Bandar-abbas connecting India with Russia and Eurasia and Chabahar with Afghanistan and Central Asia, please share your insights and analysis and shed some light on the evolving Big Picture as all the dots in our Connect Central Asia Policy starts to connect.

And finally, what strategic role does India see for itself at the Omani port of Duqm?

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun, PAF air chief went to Russia on a visit,is there any possibility that Russia provide any offensive weapon to PAF? can Pakistan afford those weapons if not then why he go there? VINOD KUMAR

RASAYAN said...


Now, LEMOA has been signed what about CISMOA and BECA?

Anonymous said...

Between Israel and Pakistan, which country had worst issues in early days of independence?

Why doesn't Pakistan establish diplomatic relationship with Israel even though they had cooperation during operation cyclone?


vrp said...

Sir, what is your take on AG600 plane that was recently revealed by Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC). what will be the strategic implications in IOR.

Devopriyo said...

Interesting news

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

So the cat is finally out of the bag & the truth will set us all free!!! The CAG has finally revealed to a large extent (but not 100%) all the troubles being taken by the IN to re-certify the MiG-29K/KUB & make them suitable for Indian operating conditions. I had mentioned this issue early this year & it is now in the open at last.

Let's see if the current RM initiates an enquiry with the same alacrity that he had shown WRT the AW-101 procurement. Main points are summarised below:

The MiG-29K, which is a carrier borne multi role aircraft and the mainstay of integral fleet air defence, is riddled with problems relating to airframe, RD-33MK engine and fly-by-wire system. Aircraft were being technically accepted despite having discrepancies/anomalies. Serviceability of MiG-29K was low, ranging from 15.93% to 37.63% and that of MiG-29KUB ranging from 21.30% to 47.14%. The augmentation of infrastructure at Visakhapatnam is still at the Detailed Project Report stage even six years after approval (December 2009). The Full Mission Simulator was assessed to be unsuitable for Carrier Qualification (CQ) simulator training for pilots, as the visuals did not support the profile. The service life of the aircraft is 6000 hours or 25 years (whichever is earlier) and with issues facing the MiG-29K/KUB, the operational life of the aircraft already delivered would be reduced. Further, the deliveries of the aircraft under the Option Clause scheduled between 2012 and 2016 are much ahead of the delivery schedule of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier in 2023, as projected by Cochin Shipyard Limited. The Ministry’s proposal (October 2002) to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) brought out that 30 aircraft of various types (twelve MiG-29K, eight Advanced Light Helicopters, two Kamov-31 and eight Sea Harrier/Light Combat Aircraft (Navy) were envisaged to operate from the IAC. The MiG-29K was cleared (February 2003) by the Defence Procurement Board (DPB) for INS Vikramaditya and by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) for ADS (i.e., IAC) in September 2008. As per the Ministry’s proposal (November 2009) for Option Clause aircraft, the MiG-29K is a carrierborne multi role aircraft and would be the mainstay of integral fleet air defence. The Ministry concluded (January 2004) a contract with the Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) MiG for acquisition of 16 MiG-29K/KUB aircraft51 and associated equipment at a cost of US$740.35 million (Rs.3,568.49 crore), which included 13 aircraft for Admiral Gorshkov (i.e., INS Vikramaditya). Thereafter, the Ministry had concluded (March 2010) an Option Clause contract for acquisition of 29 MiG-29K/KUB aircraft (which included 12 MiG-29K and one MiG-29KUB for the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) at a cost of US$1,466.44 million (Rs.6,840.94 crore), estimating that the IAC would be delivered by 2014. Deliveries of the Option clause aircraft scheduled between 2012 and 2016 are much ahead of the delivery schedule of the IAC in 2023, as projected by Cochin Shipyard Ltd.

Cont'd below...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

As per the Cabinet Committee on Security approval of December 2009 for acquisition of 29 MiG-29K/KUB aircraft under Option clause of the Main Contract (January 2004), the carrier compatibility of MiG-29K aircraft would be tested/evaluated on the Russian carrier Kuznetsov in Russia followed by certification trials from ex-Gorshkov once she is ready. As per Clause 1.3 of the Main contract (January 2004) and Option clause contract (March 2010), aircraft shall mean MiG-29K and KUB aircraft which are capable to be used from Project 11430 (INS Vikramaditya). All 16 aircraft of the Main contract were delivered between December 2009 and October 2012. The first deck landing of the MiG-29K/KUB on the decks of Admiral Gorshkov was undertaken at Russia in July 2012. Since the capability of the Main contract aircraft could not be tested/proved from the decks of INS Vikramaditya prior to exercising the Option clause, the quality of the airframe, engines as well as fly-by-wire of the MiG-29K/KUB remained un-assessable prior to exercising the Option clause.

The service life of RD-33MK engine fitted on MiG29K/KUB is 10 years/4,000 hours with an overhaul life of 1,000 hours. The Navy had placed on RAC MiG a total order for 113 engines along with 45 aircraft (90 installed on aircraft and 23 spare engines) under Main and option clause contract. The Indian Navy accepted 21 aircraft up to September 2014. Audit observed (December 2014) that as of September 2014, a total of 65 engines (42 with 21 aircraft and 23 spare) had been accepted. However, since induction in February 2010, 40 engines (representing 62% of 65 engines) had been withdrawn from service/rejected due to design related defects/deficiencies. The issue had serious flight safety implications, since in-flight engine defects had led to ten cases of single engine landings. Audit further observed from the protocol (September 2014) of the 16th IRIGC-MTC54 that RAC MiG had forwarded a list of 17 modifications which they had scheduled to complete on all engines held in India by November 2014. However, as of September 2015, it was seen that four modifications (out of 17) had been implemented by RAC MiG on all engines and balance 13 modifications would be implemented as and when engines were sent to OEM at Russia for overhaul/repair. In response to audit query about status of repairs on engines withdrawn, the Indian Navy replied (November 2015) that repairs of defective engines were being taken up with RAC MiG based on warranty/non-warranty basis, adding that repair of non-warranty engines were being progressed under IHQ MoD (N) indents. The fact remains that up to August 2015, the number of engines withdrawn from service/rejected was 46, indicating that even as the RD- 33MK engine was considered an advancement over the engine of the MiG-29, its reliability remains questionable.

Cont'd below...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Failure of Airframe Parts
Major defects arose during first (July 2012) and subsequent deck trials of the MiG-29K/KUB on Admiral Gorshkov as reported (July 2013) by Headquarters Western Naval Command, Mumbai to Directorate of Naval Air Staff. The Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC) certified (May 2014) that aircraft performance of MiG-29K/KUB aircraft under tested conditions of INS Vikramaditya operations mainly conformed to the assigned specifications, however added that weaknesses were revealed during flight tests, which were to be eliminated. Directorate of Air Support Equipment informed (June 2014) RAC MiG that numerous defects55 pertaining to failure of airframe parts had occurred during deck operations despite modifications. Responding to audit query (August 2014), Navy stated (September 2014) that the defects on the aircraft were being monitored and RAC MiG was being apprised of the criticality to initiate suitable remedial measures. Audit, however observed from the protocol of the 18th Indo Russian Inter Governmental Commission–Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) (August 2015) that defects had occurred despite numerous design improvements and modifications and regular occurrence of these defects on sortie to sortie basis was having an adverse impact on Indian Navy pilots training and capability of aircraft for undertaking prolonged deployments.

Audit observed (December 2014) from the Agenda points of 6th Reliability and Maintainability Programme Plan (RMPP) for MIG-29K/KUB aircraft that the reliability of the fly by wire was very poor, ranging from 3.5% to 7.5% between 01 July 2012 and 30 June 2014 and measures were to be taken by RAC MiG to improve reliability of the system.

Delay in Build-up of Aircraft
As per Clause 16 of the Option Clause contract (March 2010), post delivery of aircraft, the Russian Warranty Team (RWT) has to assemble/build-up the aircraft and offer to the Navy for technical acceptance. Audit scrutiny revealed:
• The service life of the aircraft is 6,000 hrs or 25 calendar years whichever is earlier, as seen from the Option clause contract (March 2010).
• Out of 19 aircraft delivered up to November 2015, 12 had been built up, with time taken for build up ranging from two months to fifteen months.
• The contract did not stipulate any timeframe for completion of build up/assembly. Therefore, the delays in build up would reduce the service life, thereby impacting the operational life of the aircraft.

Technical Acceptance of Aircraft
As per the Option Clause contract (March 2010), in case the customer’s representatives have any observations during the aircraft technical acceptance, these shall be eliminated by the supplier’s representative before the Technical Acceptance Report (TAR) is signed. As of November 2015, ten aircraft had been technically accepted. Audit observed discrepancies/anomalies on the first MiG-29K/KUB of the Main Contract technically accepted in February 2010, continued to persist on six aircraft acquired under the Option clause as discussed below:
• The Acceptance Protocols (December 2013–March 2015) of aircraft showed discrepancies/anomalies with respect to Log cards, passport and defects during pre-flight acceptance of aircraft.
• The Russian side agreed (December 2013–March 2015) that technical acceptance had not been undertaken in the full scope of the aircraft capabilities and the technical acceptance checks as per Clause 16.6 of the contract
• The Russians were paid the final 20% towards the cost of aircraft even as the Navy signed the TAR prior to liquidation of limitations Directorate of Aviation Projects Management (DAPM) at IHQ MoD (N) admitted (December 2014) that various defects/discrepancies/ observations were found during the technical acceptance of the individual aircraft, however stated that they were forwarded to Russian Warranty Team for liquidation.

Cont'd below...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Low Aircraft serviceability
‘Serviceability’58 implies that the aircraft is technically available and is not undergoing a scheduled repair or overhaul at any level. From the above, it is clear that the serviceability of MiG-29K was unsatisfactory, ranging from 15.93% to 37.63%. However, the serviceability of the MiG-29KUB, i.e., trainer aircraft was comparatively better, ranging from 21.30% to 47.14%.

Infrastructure for MiG-29K/KUB
The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved (December 2009) creation of infrastructure at Visakhapatnam for operating MiG-29K/KUB aircraft procured as complement of IAC, to be based on the East Coast at an indicative cost of Rs.218.30 crore. As per the Option Clause contract (March 2010) 29 aircraft were to be delivered between March 2012 and November 2016. Ten aircraft, totally approximately costing Rs.1,680 crore had been technically accepted by the Indian Navy between December 2013 and November 2015. Audit, however, noticed that the Go-ahead sanction for preparation of Detailed Project Report (DPR) for infrastructure was accorded in August 2014 only and the expected date of submission of DPR is February 2016, six years after in-principle approval (November 2009).

Sub-optimal Utilisation of Rheinmetall Full-Mission Simulator
The Full Mission Simulator (FMS) costing Rs.183.16 crore, is a major training aid of the MiG-29K and is designed for the ground training of a pilot. The MiG-29K Simulator facility had been commissioned at INS Hansa, Goa in May 2013. The MiG-29K training squadron has been earmarked at Goa, the squadron however had not been fully operationalised as of September 2015. Audit scrutiny (August 2014) of records showed that:
• The simulator remained unserviceable (July 2014) due to defects in three out of nine visual channels and was being used for training for basic flying profile akin to a procedure trainer.
• As per the protocol of the 16th Indo-Russian Inter Governmental Commission–Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGSC-MTC) (September 2014), un-serviceability of the simulator had prevented its optimum utilization for training of IN pilots. In reply to an audit query, Directorate of Aviation Projects Management (DAPM) admitted (December 2014) that the simulator was assessed to be unsuitable for Carrier Qualification (CQ) simulator training for pilots, as the visuals did not support the profile which required high accuracy and fidelity. As of 31st July 2015, the OEM (Rheinmetall) was still in the process of software corrections as required to make the simulator as realistic as aircraft.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

This was expected as well:

Anup said...


Any update on IAC-1?

Mohan said...

Tejas will replace defective MIG-29K. Then Rafale will replace Tejas. Then AMCA Rafale. Its called product improvement cycle.

rad said...

hi prasun
Can the new f414 engines be fitted on to the mk-1a LCA without enlarging the intakes ,this is due to some reports claiming that there was no problem and delivery of the engines are on the anvil.
If there is so much problems with the engines of the new mig-29 of the navy, i wonder what is happening to the iaf ones or the PAF jf-17?.

Gessler said...


Lol, WTF. Thanks for that laugh man, I seriously needed that.

Rajesh said...

What is the main reason for the poor quality of MIG-29k.

Spykar said...

Jai Mahakali! Ayo Gorkhali!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAJESH MISHRA: Main reason is the delivery of sub-standard quality of hardware delivered by Russia, which is the reason for low serviceability/availability rates. Russians are still far behind the West in developing FOD-resistant turbine compressor blades (a problem also encountered a decade ago with the Su-30Ks & later Su-30MKIs); the FADEC on their engines remains technologically backward; the FBW-FCS of the MiG-29K/KUB was never tropicalised & ruggedised for operating in warmer waters around India; & this has also affected the performance of the Zhuk-M2E MMR. All in all therefore, the BIGGEST MISTAKE was to sign the procurement contract BEFORE the MiG-29K/KUB had even obtained the certificate of airworthiness from Russia. Also, the majority of entire flight certification process should have been carried out in India since India was the launch customer for this product. Those in power at the time of the NDA-1 govt glossed over all this & the end-result is the mess that we have got into today. And once such a precedent has been set, others will emulate it & therefore the DRDO will also launch its own 'tamaasha' WRT IOC-1/2 & FOC-1/2 for home-grown products like the Tejas MRCA. This is how one messy process causes another messy process to take birth.

To GESSLER: What MOHAN is proposing is to replace an existing product with one that is on the drawing boards, following which this will be replaced by a product that is already available, followed by one which is still in the conceptual design stage. Somewhere he missed the FGFA (LoLz!).

To ANUP: Read the weblinked CAG report.

To RAD: That's a physical impossibility. The F414 is heavier, bigger & produces more thrust. Consequently, the airframe & fuselage will have to be re-designed for accommodating it. F404 & F414 are thus totally different designs in terms of physical dimensions & therefore a drop-in installation like that of the F125 replacing the Adour Mk.811 isn't possible.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: This are interesting:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAJESH MISHRA: Also to be noted is that the IN cannot replace AJT capable of carrier takeoffs/landings with full-mission flight simulators. No one else in the world comes up with such spectacularly outrageous propositions. The IN will therefore be well-advised to read the writing on the wall & go for T-45 Goshawk-type AJTs by ordering a few Hawk Mk.132 AJTs in the Goshawk configuration.

Arh93 said...

Prasun'da can you confirm if IAF ordered litening g-4, spice-250 bombs from Israel last month? I read about it in a flight global report. Is that true.

Ujjwal said...

What next? what would be a rational step to procure mid air refuellers?

Anonymous said...

Between Israel and Pakistan, which country had worst issues in early days of independence?

Why doesn't Pakistan establish diplomatic relationship with Israel even though they had cooperation during operation cyclone?


Girish S said...

I ask the below question in humility (and curiosity), not arrogance, so please don't shoot me! :-)

As per information available on wikipedia and GE's own data sheets, there does not appear to be any significant difference in the dimensions and weights between the F404 and the F414.

The lengths and maximum diameter of both engines is identical, although the inlet diameter of the F414 is greater by 3 in.

The F414 is heavier by about 74 kgs (source - wikipedia) or 38 kgs (source - GE's data sheet for F404-IN20) depending on which source is more accurate.

The airflow and the power output stats are (obviously) greater for the F414 (70 kg/sec vs 77.1 kg/sec) and (84 kN vs 98 kN) respectively.

While the Tejas's airframe may require additional strengthening to cope with additional power and bigger intakes for increased airflow, why would the marginal difference in dimensions (except for inlet diameter) and weight require a (potentially extensive) redesign of the airframe? Shouldn't these growth factors have been considered during the initial design phase itself?

Sources used (below):

Thanks in advance.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GIRISH S: LoLz! Don't worry about getting shot, sinxe I'm not empowered to mete out capital punishment (metaphorically speaking) in this blog. What Wikipedia will not teach anyone are the intricacies of mechanical & aeronautical engineering. What you're suggesting/asking is akin to ensuring that a Toyota Corona should in future be able to accommodate without any fuss the engine & gearbox developed for a Toyota Camry. If that were to be tried out, imagine the amount of vibration the Corona would then be subjected to, resulting in fatigue & structural cracks appearing in the chassis & body. The same principle applies to aircraft with over-powered & heavier propulsion systems that can have severe negative effects in the centre-of-gravity & on the FBW-FCS. And the additional strengthening of the airframe that you've proposed translates into a lot of structural re-design internally which is not visible to the naked eye from outside. That's precisely why the ADA has since 2009 been proposing a redesigned & re-engineered airframe, which is the LCA Mk.2. The same laws of physics thus apply in equal measure to both automobiles & aircraft.

To UJJWAL: Why worry at all? Of the remaining IL-76MDs available with the IAF, at least 10 of them can now be converted into aerial refuelling tankers, since the C-17A Globemaster IIIs are now available for strategic airlift.

To ARH93: Litening G-4, yes, but not Spice 250. It's the SAAW that generates EMP that's been ordered.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Watch Afghan President Ashraf Ghani tear apart all Oakistani allegations in this interview given on July 23, 2016:

Meanwhile, DIMWIT SETHI is of the view that the targetted killings of PA personnel in Karachi are all India's handiwowk:

Maybe the Bollywood flick D-DAY made a lasting impression upon him.

As regards CPEC, Pakistan now wants China to reduce the 6% interest rates levied on all the 'concessionary' loans being extended to China. But China remains unfazed & is even threatening to withdraw from certain power generation projects. The disagreements began last April:

Next, watch Maharana Pratap, Tipu Sultan & Aurangzeb co-existing at Chushul in Ladakh:

Ground Zero at DBO-1:

Ground Zero at DBO-2:

Ground Zero at Pangong Tso Lake:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARPIT KANODIA & BUDDHA: Details of China's scientific studies on UFOs:

rad said...

hi prasun
pse give us a complete description , dope on the SAAW with pics .Its been touted as a 100% desi weapon for the first time and seems to be have been a great success.
Is it a glide bomb type? is it derivative of the 1000kg glide bomb that was previously tested with success.
THe weight seems little small about 150 kg? cant we make a bigger one with more EMP out put?
Are PESA and AESA radars less vulnerable to EMP blasts?. HOw long will it take for a radar system to reboot in case of an emp pulse ?.I believe all radars are emp hardened nowadays.

Is it not wiser to get the help of some one to make a anti radiation missile rather than limp along like the astra which was started 15 years ago and nowhere in sight?.

how contemporary is the MARS-1 antiradiation missile that brazil has supplied to pakistan in an unfriendly act?.Why should we give them the brahmos?. we should supply it to its neighbours to teach them a lesson?.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: How many more times will you keep asking about SAAW? I had repeatedly posted the weblink about it. Here it is for the LAST time:

It is under the subheading: Standoff DEW For SEAD

Anup said...


AS per CAG report IAC-1 delivery By 2023.

WOW..What a huge delay. Who's responsible for delay?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANUP: The CAG report explains it all. You can't commence construction of the vessel when no one is sure when the DMR-249A steel will be delivered. In other words, the MoD at that time (in 2007) wasn't coordinating matters with the Union Ministry of Steel, Coal & Mines. Bottomline: the UPA-1 govt of that time is primarily responsible for the delays. That's what the country gets when the country's citizens decide to elect such incompetent politicians. For, the law of nature states that the people always get the leaders they truly deserve. So, in the final analysis, the citizens of India are all collectively responsible for delaying the IAC-1 project, since the Indian politicians all hail from various Indian communities & they cannot be expected to perform miracles by ensuring decisive, purposeful & result-oriented governance. They are not angels who have descended for the heavens for India's salvation.

To RAD: This will make your blood boil:

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun, Why these traitors wants to break India VINOD KUMAR

nag said...

Dada have a look.

Spykar said...


Christine Fair making a case for F-16's -

Do you concur with her?

Also, how a big a possibility do you think there is of India having played such a role-

Spykar said...

Some recent developments

Senthil Kumar said...

Dear Prasun,

Erdogan is going to meet Putin in Russia next week. Erdogan is suspecting US & West Planned the coup.

Many Pandits are suspecting that Erdogan is planning to leave NATO very soon and moving to make Turkey a full fledged Islamic Nation. Turkey is second powerful military next to US in NATO. Once turkey leaves NATO then NATO is lion without teeth.

Next reason Erdogan is fearing that US planned to set Kurdistan in Middle east which will squeeze the turkey. That's the reason for Coup and sudden turkey's course correction with Russia.

A full tectonic movement is going to happen. Please give your comment.

S.Senthil Kumar

Spykar said...

A thought for our desi media. Sensibility over sensationalism.

Gopu said...


Are you going to answer my previous questions in the "Looking to the Future" segment of your article? Would you say the Chinese are moving faster, slower, or just at the speed that you predicted regarding the militarization of the Tibetan plateau and the Himalayas?

Besides that, not much progress seems to be going on in India, at least at the government-level. Like I've been saying for some time, the real problems that India faces are completely internal rather than external.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GOPU: Yes, all your answers will be contained in the yet-to-be-concluded section that contains in chronological order all the developments since late 1999, kindly rest assured.

To S SENTHIL KUMAR: Nothing of that sort will happen. Erdogan knows only too well on which side of the bread he has to apply butter.

To SPYKAR: If the F-16 can be modified into a twin-engined aircraft (since that's what the IAF wants as a fourth-generation deep interdictor) then that's fine by me. But since this is next to impossible, I'm highly disinclined to be delusional & am therefore more in favour of a twin-engined option like the Rafale. F-16s all over the world aren't used as deep interdictors by any existing F-16 operator. The only realistic option from the US side is an offer of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

rad said...

hi prasun
pardon my poor memory , so i conclude it is not a solely desi weapon as well.

why did the marcos buy a not so reputed beretta sniper rifles?

Anup said...


What happened to BEL weapon locating Radar?

And your reply to Spykar:- If India select F/A-18E/F Super Hornet how many will be order?

Siddharth said...

Prasun Da,

Found CAG negative report on C-17 with India. Average load capacity per sortie is between 13 tons to 18 tons against aircraft payload capacity 70 tons. Further, the C-17 aircraft only on certain occasion carry 35 tons (max. 40 tons in winter).

What's your view on it. Is the report is true.

Anonymous said...

There is another option: IAF takes an SU30MKI and develops it into a deep strike interdictor. Here they will have an aircraft that could potentially have 80%+ similarity to their main fighter. This will simplify the supply chain. What percentage of this aircraft is actually built in India? Is this something that IAF would consider? what do you think?

I guess only avionics need to be changed. HAL/DRDO have already experience of this.


Pawan said...

Dear Prasun da,

What would be your take on this assessment by former IA officer's views.


Spykar said...

Dada, What are the pakis so 'sensitive' about here-

Spykar said...

Also you said "..The only realistic option from the US side is an offer of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet...

But the govt is planning on two separate assembly lines for fighter jets. If one is Rafale then it makes sense for the other one to be single-engined F-16/Gripen based on their competitive offer. Also since Tejas won't be filling all of India's LMRCA needs in the coming decade.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SPYKAR: The Super Hornet comes into play ONLY IF an alternative to the Rafale is being sought. But since that isn't happening, we have nothing to worry about. As for the L-MRCA, it will be only the Tejas LCA that will be committed to series-production, just like the Rafale. HAL has just completed buying all the land reqd for setting up a final-assembly line for the Rafale in Bengaluru & so the Rafale MMRCA deal is already on & is now unstoppable. HAL can & does have the competency to develop the Tejas Mk.2 LCA within a short time-frame of 5 years PROVIDED the techies at ADA are told to take a backseat & keep themselves busy playing Solitaire on their workstations.

As for the secrecy behind CPEC, that's nothing new & was known all along due to the dp,omating military dimensions of the CPEC. In fact, Pakistan's defence budgets since the late 1980s have always remained classified & the true figures have never been revealed till date. It was confirmed yesterday in a TV programme by a Pakistani Finance Ministry insider. Watch this:

To PAWAN: Nowadays, every Tom, Dick & Harry relentlessly tries to seek a few short-lived moments of fame & glory even if his/her utterances or actions expose them as being stuck in a time-warp. That seems to be the problem of the author of that Op-Ed. But I don't have the time or inclination to figure out what the author's motives or intentions were when he was drafting his mumbo-jumbo script. Suffice to say that today In New Delhi, NOIDA & Gurgaon there's a growing number of such individuals who are extremely reticent about applying common-sense. For example, at an IDSA-hosted seminar a few months back, when I asked the assembled panelists if anyone had compelling evidence on whether's Pakistan's nuclear WMD tests of May 1998 were using enriched uranium of plutonium, the answer I got from all of them was that they were clueless about it & they were then defensively quoting reports from either the WASHINGTON POST or the NEW YORK TIMES. Similarly, at a seminar 2 days ago hosted by the Centre for Airpower Studies, no one had a clue about Pakistan's plans for a naval, sea-based survivable nuclear deterrent, despite me writing about it along with illustrations in an earlier thread sometime in 2012 & 2014!

Consequently, the end-result is always convoluted mumbo-jumbo that's represented as ANALYSIS. I will elaborate further later today.

Pierre Zorin said...

I liked the old Trishul where within an hour I could see 100 replies. These days in 3 days only 12 or 20 or so entries :( Mind you I always jump to PKS said bit and try and work out from the reply what the questions were and then perhaps read back occasionally but still....Also either some guys have assumed new handles OR decided to remain aloof because a lot of past contributors have fallen by the way side.

Pierre Zorin said...

"PROVIDED the techies at ADA are told to take a backseat & keep themselves busy playing Solitaire on their workstations ". well given their ineptitude it is a wonder you didn't ask them to play with something else! :)

By the way I may be wrong in understanding the role of CAG but they seem to find fault with everything. I wonder if we should let them evaluate the US military acquisitions and compare just to ensure they are not feeling as if their nose rubbed on dog manure so everything stinks!

birbal said...

Hi Prasunda very GOOD morning,

You said-
" HAL can & does have the competency to develop the Tejas Mk.2 LCA within a short time-frame of 5 years PROVIDED the techies at ADA are told to take a backseat & keep themselves busy playing Solitaire on their workstations. "

So does it mean HAL has a higher chance of developing the LCA Mk2 not ADA?? What about the EXPERTISE gained by the ADA officials in developing the Tejas mk1??
Who will tell the ADA officials to keep themselves busy playing SOLITAIRE? i think they are by now accustomed to flying TOY planes...:)) they, i think won't let it happen!!

sbm said...

As much as I want to, I cannot disagree on those IDSA comments. Anything military related incl nuclear: clueless or ill-informed. I really wanted to disagree. But I can't.

Guess who had to set them straight ?

SK said...

Hi Prasun,

1) Does IA have any jamming equipment similar to Russian Krasukha-4.
2) Can such equipment be effectively used by IA or IAF to neutralize or decrease the capabilities of AEW&C aircraft like SAAB 2000 Erieye/ KJ 2000.
3) As India as varied terrain where can they be practically employed.

Common Sense said...


This is Bharat Karnad's latest on the IAF. He says if India had purchased Qatar's Mirages, it would have gotten 60 Mirage-20005s in service now and Qatar only operates a dozen. Then he talks of how the Super Sukhoi will whip the Rafale and the F-35. The man's heart is in the right place, but he's a millionaire with facts.

youngbengal said...

@siddharth & Pierre Zorin- CAG morons never heard of Density. Payload measured in tonnage. what the hell IAF can do if merely 20 ton cargo occupied the entire space inside c17 or IAF should carry an MBT in every sortie to eliminate audit objection?

madforexbii said...

Second to that :P

Anonymous said...

Prasun sir, I recently read your super su-30mki article. I am impressed with your vast knowledge in this field. I have few questions
1] Is Indian army planning something like stryker brigade formations using tata kestrel?
2] Will NAMICA spearhead tank formations?
3] I will like to know about trajan artillery system.
4] I will like to know about weapon package of IAF Rafale.
5] Which will be suitable replacement for AK-630?
6] Will Indian Rafales have DEDIRA and INCAS systems?
7] Please provide me some threads related to MiG-29upg and upgraded Mirage-2000,
8] Can we replace Kolkata's 2 AK-630 with 32 Maitri SAMs like we did with Rajput?
9] Can super Su-30mki and Rafale outsmart J-20 and J-31?

Pawan said...

Dear Pierre,

I think main reason is not much happening in field of new weapons in India. I can remember how in 2011-14 almost all queries used to abt new weapons system like nirbhay cruise missile, ALCM( supersonic), rafale tender, upcoming MR-SAM etc. now topic are more mature like latest one about IA's record in high altitude warfare.


Arpit Kanodia said...

@SK here it is

Arpit Kanodia said...

""""" It also cleared the upgradation of the Mobile Integrated Electronic Warfare System, Samyukta, at a cost of Rs. 1,682 crore.

The Government also cleared a Rs. 900 crore dedicated mobile communications system for army troops deployed in Ladakh and the Eastern Command."""""

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,which equipment will selex provide in refurbishment of KA 28 ASW helicopter the deal for which has been cleared by RM. What will be the final configuration as a whole.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VED: Read the contents of the latest thread & see what the following news-report failed to report:

To PAWAN: O yaar, a lot is happening on a daily basis. One just has to do one's homework to find out what's going on.

To PIERRE ZORIN: The CAG's reports are never drafted by domain experts. Instead, only accountants do such jobs & hence overall contextualisation is always missing. The reports would have been comprehensive & holistic if the written submissions of the MoD & service HQs been attached to such reports vas annexes.

To BIRBAL: LoLz! What expertise has ADA gained? It has designed a platform for, of & by techies. That's precisely whay the previous ADA Director had himself admitted during a seminar at Aero India 2013 that his design team NEVER BOTHERED to factor in parameters like per-hour direct operating costs & maintenance man-hours per flight hour!!! Then there were subsequent revelations through the CAG reports about excessive vibration when the 23mm cannon was fired & when the nose landing gear was being lowered or being retracted. Did you know that the LCA's entire wing had to be redesigned due to a design flaw by ADA concerning the type of wingtip-mounted navigational lights? Or why ADA has to date been unable to design an LCA=specific light attached to the nose landing gear & instead, has opted for the same lights used by the Mirage 2000's nose landing gear? Now the whip has been cracked from the PMO & led by a seasoned Director who also has operational experience as an end-user, ADA under Cmde Balaji has instituted new industrial partnership practices which have led to crucial design parameter inputs being welcomed from HAL's aeronautical engineers, all of which will result in a 'functional' MRCA design. ADA's designs were all super-duper from a technological standpoint, but were totally impractical from standpoints of aircraft reliability, aircraft availability & overall platform functionality/serviceability.

To COMMON SENSE: That twit Karnad conveniently forgets that way back in 2006 itself, French President Jacques Chirac had proposed that the IAF forego the Mirage 2000 upgrade option & procure 40 Rafales off-the-shelf instead, for starters. Nitwits like Bharat Karnad can't tell between the underwriter & undertaker, leave alone defining what an MMRCA in the 21st century is all about, or what are the IAF's deep interdiction reqmts for future offensive air campaigns.

Arpit Kanodia said...

Why the US dropped the Uranium bomb in Hiroshima when they tested a Pu design in Trinity. Why not US dropped a design they tested?

It doesnt make any sense you drop a design that was not tested. The only reason was Nazis provided a more reliable, well tested Uranium design with enriched Uranium to US. In return ,immunity to some chaps in Argentina.

Spykar said...

Sir, You Said "..As for the L-MRCA, it will be only the Tejas LCA that will be committed to series-production, just like the Rafale. HAL has just completed buying all the land reqd for setting up a final-assembly line for the Rafale.."

Then what about the second line of fighter jets that were to be manufactured by private sector under the make in India initiative that is in addition to the LCA Tejas whose production is being scaled up. Both the RM and our Air Chief has been quoted saying that, more than once. Also all the hoopla about strategic partnerships. Were they all joomla ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SPYKAR: No Indian official has so far EVER identified the type of aircraft or the model of aircraft that is to be built in India other than the Tejas LCA & Rafale. And neither is there any plan to produce any third type of combat aircraft. The 2nd line refers to two parallel final-assembly lines (one with HAL & another with the private-sector) for the projected Tejas Mk.2 MRCA. Rafale's licenced-production will be mostly confined to final-assembly by HAL with the help of kits supplied in semi-knocked-down condition by various French OEMs/vendors.