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Wednesday, March 1, 2017

SpyDer-SR LL-QRM/QR-SAM Deliveries Have Begun, Aerostat-Mounted EL/M-2083s To Follow Next

Following a nine-year wait, both the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Indian Army (IA) are now poised to replace their existing inventories of OSA-AKM and ZRK-BD Strela-10M SHORADS with the RAFAEL of Israel’s Spyder-SR system. The IAF refers to the Spyder-SR as a low-level quick reaction missile (LL-QRM), while the Army calls it quick-reaction surface-to-air missile (QR-SAM). First to deploy them will be the IAF, which will use the SpyDer-SRs to defend its six air bases spread throughout Jammu & Kashmir, Punjab and Haryana.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) had approved the IAF’s requirement in July 2008, and a US$293 million contract for the supply of an initial 18 launchers (making up one squadron) was signed in December 2008. Deliveries were to begin in early 2012 and were to be concluded by August 2012. However, the deliveries could not begin due to a last-minute decision by both the IAF and IA to use high-mobility trucks supplied by TATA Motors, instead of the BEML-supplied TATRA high-mobility trucks.
The IA had received the green light to procure four regiments of the Spyder-SR in August 2009, and a $900 million contract was inked later that year. The Spyder-SR is the culmination of joint R & D efforts undertaken by RAFAEL and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). It is a short-range (15km range), low-level (from 20 metres through to 9,000 metres altitude) integrated, all-weather air-defence system that makes use of the ground-launched Python 5 imaging infra-red guided and Derby radar-guided missiles, which complement each other in their target detection, tracking and pursuit profile . Both missiles are equipped with lock-on before launch (LOBL) and lock-on after launch (LOAL) modes for faster response time and improved engagement flexibility.
A Spyder-SR battery includes up to six missile launch vehicles (each equipped with four missile launchers), missile reloaders and a command-and-control Unit that also accommodates the IAI/ELTA Systems-built EL/M-2106NG ATAR 3-D surveillance radar and two operating consoles. The radar can simultaneously track and engage up to 60 targets at a range beyond 35km (depending on the terrain). The command-and-control unit interfaces with the missile launch vehicles via wireless data-link (for up to as distance of 100km) to enable optimal unit dispersion for effective area coverage, mutual protection and survivability. The system's high cross-country mobility offers quick deployment and operational agility. The Spyder-SR also has VHF/HF communications networks for internal squadron-level communication and to upper-tier commands. Once the operator decides to launch a missile, an automatic procedure begins. 
The command-and-control centre assigns the target to the appropriate launch vehicle and the selected missile will start to search for the target. If the target is within acquisition range the missile will be launched in LOBL mode. If the target is beyond seeker acquisition range the missile will be launched in LOAL mode. The seeker searches for the target and when it acquires the target it begins the terminal homing phase. Both LOAL and LOBL modes are available for the Derby and Python 5. Destruction of the target is achieved either by the warhead blasting upon impact or by proximity fuze.
Providing early-warning cues for the IAF’s plains-deployed SpyDer-SRs will be the DRDO-developed and BEL-built Ashwini LMRSRs.
To be delivered later this year will be six aerostats (supplied by Russia’s Rosoboronexport State Corp and procured by Reliance Defence Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Reliance Infrastructure Ltd) that will all be fitted with IAI-supplied EL/M-2083 early-warning radars. The IAF already operates two such aerostat-mounted radars that were ordered in 2005 and were delivered in 2007.

152 comments:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Russian BMEWS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhAIPu9p5fw

Desi Anti-Mine Shoes & Anti-Landmine Drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGU15VnWymI

Old Monk said...

Few more questios,

http://www.ausairpower.net/dew-ebomb.html

According to C. Kopp, JDAM and Kh-55M, 3M-14E Club and the Kh-31 are the delivery systems that are most likely to pack am EMP Warhead. So can Nirbhay and the JDAM type SAAW under development be armed with an EMP warhead? Can the SAAW DEW be used for in anti=ship role?

Do you thinnk AAMs or SAMs or ASCMs can be equipped with such EMP warhead, providing that compact EMP warheads can be built with useful lethality performance?

A AAM with datalink midcourse guidance, such as the AIM-120 or Meteor, could be used to break up inbound raids of hostile aircraft by causing soft or hard electrical kills and rendering it defenceless or uncapble of continuing its mission.
Applying this paradigm into air defence operations using area defence SAMs, Large SAMs in theory could accommodate an electromagnetic warhead comparable in size to a bomb warhead. A SAM site subjected to jamming by inbound bombers could launch a first round under datalink control with an electromagnetic warhead to disable the bombers, and then follow with conventional rounds against targets which may not be able to defend themselves electronically.

Rahul said...

Dear Sir

As far as our Indigenous BMD -PDV is concerned
which we successfully Tested Recently

Which is The Long Range Tracking Radar we use for It

Is DRDO making an LRTR for BMD

dailyindiadefence said...

Thanks P and and a good explanation OF SPYDER and all the local names as all Services use the same weapon and radar and EW for their SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT needs and call them by different names to confuse themselves and the services and media most as they are not so professional but good reporters rushing against time and use your site to the hilt so hope they educate Indians,. BZ

REVATI RASHMI AND CAR are navy army and iaf same basic radars ! This nomenclature job is MOD's who lack expertise so we will have to live with it. IAF called aircraft with names like BAAZ etc and now forgotten. MIG 29 SHOULD BE MIG (IAF) MIG(IA UPG) AND MIG(NAVY) as Mig 29K ...k stands for korabel which means ship !

I SAW SPYDER at PARIS AIR SHOW with a TATA chassis but media is reporting TATRA ???? And is TATRA still left hand drive !
RR

Vijay said...

Dear Sir

Do our Phalcons and Embraers have ANY
Air to Ground Imaging Capabilities

Or DO we only rely on SU 30 and SATELLITES for this purpose

Can we have Any early warning if Pakistan Starts Moving out
and Integrate its MISSILES with Nuclear Warheads

Raman said...


excellent informative Post.........

Should not the SpyDer become the common/single QR-LL SAM for all 3 forces and be ordered in larger numbers (once these 1 Sqdn + 4 Regiments are absorbed) or even manufactured/assembled in India ?

By when do you expect deliveries to be completed ?

rad said...

hi prasun
do we have any radar that is akin to the saab girafee? The elevation of the radar is definitely a plus point to catch low flying cruise missiles. though the ashwin is in a different class, the radar seems comparatively lower. will it not be a problem to catch cruise missiles?.
Did we get any help form outside to make the ashwin as like the previous akash radar from poland?

will it be replacing the akash radar ?

are there any derivatives of it? smaller or bigger?

you have mentioned that the Russians were supplying the aerostat for the israeli radar ? can you pse explain ? as we all were given to understand the the whole package was israeli ?will it be a part of cruise missile defense?

can a souped up ashwini function in lieu of a arudhra Israeli radar?

you mentioned the spyder is to defend only 6 major airbases , what about the many more?

it would be prudent to defend all with spyder and Barak 8 to have a fool proof system.










Aloquik said...

Nice article Prasunji ,
I have some questions
1. How Many missiles IA and IAF get in this deal?

2. Can these systems survive against PAF arm and other sead missiles ?
3. Why Pralay need a 25kn class 350kg engine?
4. Isro got their foundry upgareded to 180nm ............ do DRDO doing such at gaetec ?
5. What is the reason of having Akash 1 and akash 2 missiles ? when 30km range will be covered by SpyDer and QRsam ? because akash is a bulky so what does it offer additionally? This thing bugs a lot so sir please explain in detail?
6. Can Data Patterns make Long Range Radars like Israeli Radars to detect BMs at 2000km range with their own IPR ? Also , Can they make FCRs?





Jyoti Sen said...

Dada.. Then what about maitri Sam? Only navy will use it? And when will army order the spyder system?

Anonymous said...

Hi PrasunDa,

Do you think Iran is dragging its feet on chabbar port due to chinese pressure.One thing is for sure ,After Modi China has come out of bushes(pakistan) and start boldly going after India while UPA was busy butt licking them .
Now i feel its need to of the hour to get back POK once and for all.Chinese should know when they have crossed red lines.

Regards
SSingh

rad said...

hi prasun
IS data patterns making a version of VERA E esm system in collaboration with czech? .Is there any collaboration between the two?.

Anup said...

Sir,

Any news about INS Arihant.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: radars like Ashwini or even Arudhra are never positioned at sea-level altitudes. Instead, they are always perched on elevated terrain a few km away from the deployed SAMs. The LRDE-designed fire-control radars shown in the previous thread for the SR-SAM will be lighter & compact & will be mounted over masts that will be raisable up to 20 metres high. The Rohini, whose IPRs were bought from Poland (the original design being the TRS-17) was put to good use to develop the S-band AESA of Ashwini & it was an all-local developmental affair. Russian aerostats are more robust & are able to survive aginst strong wind-currents, especially in areas close to the sea or at higher altitudes like in J & K. Hence Russian aerostats were selected. IAF air bases deep in the hinterland do not require multi-tier air-defence coverage from SAMs. Only the air bases straddling the approach flight-paths to be adopted by hostile aircraft are in need of such coverage. Where’s the need for ‘Vera’ PSS when the ‘Divya Drishti’ PSS has already been developed by DRDL & deployed by IAF?

To ALOQUIK: 1) That data remains classified. 2) Of course. 3) Because it is a long-endurance loitering missile. 4) No. 5) That’s why in future the ‘desi’ SR-SAM will be produced in far greater numbers than Akash-1/2. The SR-SAM is an E-SHORADS that can tackle both aircraft & cruise missiles & hence offers more bang-for-the-buck than Akash-1/2. 6) Yes, even Astra Microwave can do so. But BEFORE that can be done, India requires BMEWS-type radars, Watch the video-clip above of the Russian BMEWS system that explains it all.

To JYOTI SEN: Project Maitri is dead & may it RIP. IN too will go for the Astra-1 SR-SAM. Army has already ordered SpyDer-SR as I’ve explained above.

To ANUP: None.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To OLD MONK: It is futile dealing with ‘can’, ‘could’, ‘maybe’, etc. One can keep speculating till the cows come back gome from grazing. AAMs & SAMs equipped with EMP warheads will not, as per the laws of physics, spare anyone. Anything within a specific lethal radius will be affected, be it friendly or hostile electronic systems. Hence, better to leave needless speculation aside & stay focussed on facts, i.e. what how matters are, & not how/what matters ought to be or can be. WRT Pralay, it is all explained ON-THE=RECORD by Dr S Christopher in his interview to FORCE magazine’s February 2017 issue. Here again, therefore, no need to speculate on what it maybe be or could be.

To RAHUL: Why such repitive questions? It is the L-band EL/M-2080 Green Pine. Only ‘desi’ LRTR built so far is the S-band MOTR for ISRO.

To RR: It’s the opposite. Here’s what the ‘desi’ media has said: The SPYDER deal was completed by the IAF with Rafael and Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) in 2008 and supplies were to begin in three to four years. But the process got delayed due to the unavailability of the Tatra trucks, which got mired in a controversy over bribery allegations. "Due to the lack of heavy specialised trucks, changes had to be made in the contract with the vendors and a made-in-India truck has been used for carrying the SPYDER system, which has been tested extensively resulting in delays," the sources said.

To VIJAY: No, they don’t. Instead, ELTA-supplied EL/M-2060P SAR inside a pod carried by Su-30MKI is used, along with pod-mounted LOROP camera called CONDOR from ELBIT Systems are used. Micro-satellites of the type recently launched by ISRO can be deployed on short notice to keep persistent vigil over any area where any activity WRT hostile ballistic/cruise missile deployment/launch.

To RAMAN: This is just the initial order. In the end, the Derby will be replaced by the ‘desi’ Astra-1’s E-SHORADS version. In such a configuration, the RF-guided SAM focuses on hostile airborne aircraft, while the IIR-guided Python-5 SAM targets hostile cruise missiles. SpyDer-SR deliveries should be completed by next year.

Shantanu kumar said...

Thanks, Prasun for the information regarding the new Astra-based SRSAM for Navy, with ARH Astra can potentially prove to be even better than ESSM. But I have a few questions.

1. How long before we can see the system on IN ships according to you?
2. Can it be quad packed like ESSM or how many estimated numbers could we see on a ship like Kamorta?
3. Will we see an IR version too? And will that be needed? I am a bit confused about capabilities of ARH and IR guided missiles, I would be grateful if you could explain the advantages and reasons for deploying such systems summarily.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SHANTANU KUMAR: 1) There are no problems at all. The key design features of the Barak-8 & VL Astra-1 are the same & now that the actuators for thrust-vector-control have already been mastered, thanks to the Barak-8 project, it is now just a question of a different application, i.e. on the VL version of Astra-1. Ku-band active RF seeker design has also now matured & work on miniature Ka-band seeker is now in progress as well at RCI. 2) Why only quad-packed? Eight VLS cells on either side of a warship can instead be installed, resulting in 16 SAMs being available for close-in air-defence. 3) IIR version is effective against those ASCMs that are sea-skimming & are turbojet-powered. But against supersonic ASCMs coming in at higher altitudes in a dive-attack mode, the RF seeker is far more effective since the RF seeker's target acquisition/tracking envelope/range is far greater than that of an IIR seeker. In fact, SAMs with IIR seekers will be superceded in the very near future by laser-based close-in defence systems, i.e. directed-energy weapons.

Kunal Jadhav said...

Sir,
When did drdo started working on new SR-SAM ? And when will it be ready for deployment.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To S SINGH: What gives you such a feeling about foot-dragging by Iran? In reality, everytime Pakistan tries to economically strangle Afghanistan by unilaterally shutting down the border crossings along the Durand Line, it reinforces the collective stand of Afghanistan, India & Iran that Pakistan is hell-bent upon imposing crippling economic embargoes against Afghanistan. Luckily, everytime this happens, there's greater inflow of of goods into Afghanistan via Chah Bahr. So, in a way, it is the Pakistani stupidity that is driving up the importance of Chah Bahr FTIZ.

As for China, it has struck its own foot with an axe. For, while on one hand Ret'd Gen Pervez Musharraf has been appearing on TV & giving interviews in which he says that Hafiz Saeed is a 'good guy' while Masood Azhar is the 'bad huy' since the latter had planned to assassinate Musharraf twice in 2003/2004, China is now seen to be protecting Masood Azhar at the UNSC while both Islamabad & Beijing agree that Hafiz Saeed is the bad guy. Thus, total confusion prevails at the policy-making level in Pakistan & because of this China too is now turning out to be the world's laughing stock! Serves them right, according to me.

Asmit S. said...

Sir I have been reading your blog since last few weeks.And I read many posts.Here questions incoming in my mind:

1.I noted that you wrote nothing related to AMCA. Since can you highlight or write about it that when will it come or what will be it's +/- point.
2.Sir what is the truth about KAALI weapon?
3.Is that true that Astra and Akash's seekers are imported and not made in India?
4.Can you explain French help in Kaveri for Rafale Offset.I mean what kind of help we will get?
5.Who is behind NE's Terror groups.Some people say that Church is behind anti-India activities.And some say that China is behind.Can you highlight the truth?
6.What is your stand on Modi and Doval policies?Is this duo better then ABV's times Duo?
7.I know that there are no real friends just interests, still can you say that which country is closest to us?

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,
Thanks for another informative article.

1) U.S. Department issued a USD 35 million contract for supplying 40 MaxxPro Dash DXM Mine resistant armoured trucks to Pakistan.

2) An old interview of Balochistan Liberation Front leader Dr.Allah Nazar:
https://baluchsarmachar.wordpress.com/2016/09/27/pakistan-is-nest-of-religious-extremism-there-will-be-no-peace-as-long-as-it-is-there-dr-allah-nazar/

3) Some Chinese developments:
http://claudearpi.blogspot.in/2016/12/a-new-road-between-tibet-and-xinjiang.html
http://claudearpi.blogspot.in/2017/02/beijing-has-decided-to-invest-us-24.html
http://claudearpi.blogspot.in/2017/02/a-train-to-chumbi-valley.html

AVI said...

Sir,
1)Someone told me that DRDO is working on a 7.62×39 mm assault rifle, a new light machine gun and a sniper rifle with some support from israel. Is that true?

2} DRDO halted its project to develop an anti aircraft gun in 1995. Should they revive the project for army is having some old guns currently being upgraded by BEL?

2) In 2015 we got the news that NGARM will be integrated to Sukhoi in 2016. Will the NGARM and QR SAM be tested in 2017??.Do you think that deployment of SPYDER will be an all out blow for DRDO's QRSAM.

3)While reading the documents placed in the parliament stating the defence project cleared for development, I found that some funds were cleared for some anti ship missile development.In an interview in 2015 Dr. G Sateesh Reddy of RCI said:"An X-band seeker for anti-ship applications is also being pursued very seriously and trials will be held in the first quarter of 2015".Which missile??

4) Last year in an interview Raksha Mantri said that Astra and Mag missiles will be inducted in 2017. What do you think.

5)Sir,S Cristopher during Aero India said that they have signed $21 million contacts with Myanmar to supply advance light torpedoes. Chinese communist party mouthpiece Global Times also quoted him saying the same. Is it true?

Thank You

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

This should be interesting: International Seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles Enabling Tech 2027 on March 02, 2017, FICCI, Federation House, Tansen Marg, New Delhi

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASMIT: 1) I wrote nothing about AMCA because there’s nothing to write about, especially when no one seems to be able to answer my foundational questions first asked 3 years ago: Is there any need for the AMCA when the FGFA has already been selected? What will the AMCA be able to do that the FGFA will not be able to? 2) It is a mystery wrapped up inside a riddle within an enigma. Better to leave it at that for now. 3) Only Astra-1’s seeker, which is the same as that on the R-77/RVV-AE BVRAAM. Akash’s seeker is locally sourced. 4) SNECMA Moteurs will help GTRE with consultancy WRT optimising the Kaveri’s design. That’s the only ToT on the table, nothing else. 5) They are all extortionists who seek an easy life & are not interested in hard work. No one country or institution is behind them. 6) The NDA-2 is a little better than the UPA-1/2, but it is failing to articulate an over-arching national narrative. Hence all the confused rhetoric concerning religious nationalism versus cultural nationalism, glorification of suicides, etc, etc. Simple fact-of-life is that in the absence of large-scale job creation efforts, restlessness among the youger strara of the population is growing & this in tun is creating incentives for demanding academic/job reservations and also engaging in needless & delusory debates on xenophobic nationalism. Consequently, the prime sufferers are proud patriotism & a common-sensical standard of existence on a day-to-day basis. I see no difference between those taking recourse to violence & intimidation, i.e. insisting on coercive compellance, and those figures who use religiosity on TV & often are the first ones to lose their temper, thereby conceding defeat. The need of thjer hour is for intellectual compellance, convincing the majority by making compelling arguments rooted in logical reasoning. But even this is not forthcoming from the pathetic political class. Everyone is forgetting what Misalla had told Beh-Hur: you can kill an idea only with another idea. 7) The closest to India are those who are financially & culturally tied to India through a symbiotic umbilical cords, i.e. Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal & Sri Lanka.

To AVI: 1) Totally untrue. 2) No need since the L-70s & ZU-23s are already being upgraded. 3) QR-SAM will be test-fired in the near future. NG-ARM’s unguided test-launches will also begin later this year. SpyDer-SR is being procured in limited quantities only as an interim solution. 4) The X-band IMR seeker will be common to both the Nirbhay’s SLCM version & the BrahMos-A. 5) Nag & HELINA will both be cleared for bulk production this year. 6) Correct.

Varunn said...

With Astra, SPYDER, Barak-8 and long range SAMs, we would have one the best air defence capability in the world. But how will all these systems fit together? Some questions - 1) Why is the DRDO hell bent on wasting tax payers money by developing future variant of its obsolete Akash when we are soon going to have much more capable Barak-8? 2) What can AAD,PDV,XRSAM do that our future S-400 with hupersonic missiles wont be able to do? What is DRDO trying to prove by test firing these missiles every year?

Old Monk said...

1. Will the FGFA carry the Izdelie 810 VLRAAM or its Indian equivalent? Isnt the RVV-AE-ZRK LRAAM, you said would go onboard the FGFA & Su-30 MKI, a SAM modification of the R-77?

2. Whats will the never ending trials for the LSV and the LAMV requirement for our Special forces? When will they start arriving and who are the frontrunners?

3. You wrote to Asmit that ": Is there any need for the AMCA when the FGFA has already been selected? What will the AMCA be able to do that the FGFA will not be able to?" 5th gen AMCA being a Medium category and the FGFA in the heavy category, isnt that how the IAF always wanted? 2 different jets for 2 different roles?

Anonymous said...

Consequences of Pakistan locking down it's border with Afghanistan see 35min onwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVU5YJ-MyUk

BR
Raj

Kib said...

Hi Prasun,

Looks like the latest version of the AAD tested yesterday has been tweaked, article below calls it the final production version.
1. The missile now has small fore-fins near the nose. Are they moving or fixed?
2. Do they want it to be able to intercept aircrafts to limited extent? DRDO is on record saying they believe it can already handle cruse missiles.

rad said...

To old monk
great idea of putting a emp war head on a sam, makes sense.A pilot comming in for an attack will be totally confused when his instruments go blank or better even, the fly by wire system crashes during an attack.

Asmit S. said...

I guess AMCA is bought to promote indigenous R&D and fill medium category of Aircrafts in future.Like in development of AMCA, many many technologies are being developed.Plus,today or tomorrow,I think India has to become independent in Aeronautics sector.
What do think what is behind Nepal's rift with India? I mean whenever I browse Nepali news-channels in FB, I feel that Nepal is more anti-India even then Pakistan.So why Nepalese citizens are becoming so Anti-India? And do you think we can achieve atleast 70-80% indigenous content till 2030?

Anonymous said...

@Prasun,

Saw some interesting commeents on one of the Pak newspaper. Their MPs are asking the government there, how much they are going to charge the chinese for using the roads, rail and port they have built? looks like they are the ones with the Chankiyan genes?

RAT

Ravi said...

Dear Sir

When do you think the NEXT round of Hostilites will Begin
with PAKISTAN

We are now in March ; if you might remember your Prediction

Secondly have we done something for SNIPER rifles

We do get to read about Emergency Purchases ; hope this too was covered

And why has the Ceasefire violations now stopped from the Pakistani side

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VARUNN: How will they fit together? Elementary: through inrerfaces with the IACCCS network. 2) Akash is already a mature product. Only re-engineering being done is to replace its existing solid-pripellant with a more efficient solid propellant. Barak-8 is for air-defence of vulnerable areas like cities & strategic industrial zones, whereas Akash-1 is for protecting vulnerable points like air bases & forward-deployed military infrastructure. 3) S-400 is still 5 years away from arrival. Then there are additional problems. Read this: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/indias-plans-to-buy-strategic-russian-weapons-are-in-jeopardy-heres-why/articleshow/57419668.cms?from=mdr

The recent tests of the PDV & AAD are meant to serve the purpose of ‘signalling’, i.e. declare & show that India is more than willing to call Pakistan’s bluffs about ‘first-strike option’ & ‘full-spectrum strategic deterrence’. The only missing element here is the availability of a fixed-site X-band early warning radar of the type the Russians have installed throughout the periphery of Russia.

To OLD MONK: 1) The Izdelie 810 VLRAAM will be an updated iteration of the RVV-AE-ZRK LRAAM. The latter has never been shown in its SAM avatar. The Vityaz SHORADS uses the R-77 airframe. 3) Both FGFA & AMCA fall into the medium category as proven by their MTOW parameters.

To KIB: 1) All control fins on missiles/PGMs are actiated, i.e. moving. 2) No. SAMs for intercepting combat aircraft need to be more manoeuvrable than SAMs designed to intercept ballistic or cruise missiles that cannot be high-G manoeuvred in mid-flight. In the only-recorded instance of SAMs shooting down TLAMs in early 1991, Iraqi Roland & Strela-10M SHORADS shot down a few TLAMs.

To RAD: LoLz! Yeah, great idea indeed, but only for Playstations & Xbox. And what will happen on the surface below once such an EMP is unleashed? Imagine such a SAM being exploded over a Jamnagar or any other city!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASMIT S: What R & D? How many IPRs in this domain are owned by Indian academic institutions or laboratories? How many industrial patents in this arena have been filed so far by Indian industrial entities? Does India even possess an airframe RCS measurement facility where full-scale aircraft are strung up in mid-air for obtaining accurate RCS measurements? Countries like China & India can NEVER attain self-sufficiency in such areas for obvious reasons, i.e. until any country possesses a vibrant commercial transportation aircraft production business, there will never be any money available for devoting to R & D in cutting-edge high-tech arenas.

As for Nepal-India relations, just go to any of the border CIQ iunstallations on the Indian side & see for yourself how dilapidated the infrastructure is. For starters, that will tell you all that’s wrong. Showing goodwill to Nepal isn’t all about paying obeisance at their temples, but about making day-to-day life easy for the citizens of such land-locked countries by ensuring all-round rail & road connectivity.

To RAT: LoLz! It’s their ‘Baniya’ genes. Slowly the realization is dawning upon them that Afghanistan’s economic linkages are now firmly with India & Iran & consequently the CPEC’s vision will now become a liability for Pakistan. Small wonder that Gwadar Airport was closed down for 2 weeks because of non-availability of electricity!

To RAVI: They have already begun. Read this: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/arms-ammunition-meant-for-militants-found-in-truck-returning-from-pok-4550284/

Ceasefire violations never stopped. They have been taking place, but the ‘desi’ news-reporters are now tired & fed-up with them & hence don’t report them.

Chirag said...

Hi prasun,
In your previous q&a you had mentioned that ka 226 deal is not a good one,can you elaborate.

Anik said...

Prasun Dada,
You said:The recent tests of the PDV & AAD are meant to serve the purpose of ‘signalling’,...

Do you mean that ADA and PDV are not capable missiles??

When Astra will be inducted and do you think work on Astra mk2 will start in near future. Missile autonomy mission was started to make india missile import fee. But do you think it will succeed because we have still made any progress on Short range AIR to AIR missile like Israeli Python, MANPADS , Long range missiles like S400 which can intercept both aircrafts and missiles. We also need range of AIR to surface missiles of various specifications.

Do you think AAD will be effective against fighter jets and cruise missiles?

And what do you think about the current chaos in our universities. Such things once used to happen in University of Damascus and it finally escalated into civil war....

Thank you sir..

Rahul said...

Prasun Sir,
We do have an outdoor RCS measurement facility. The pylon can lift the 35 ton to the night of 10 meters...

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.oneindia.com/amphtml/india/orange-to-add-teeth-to-india-gen-next-weapon-systems-1910653.html&ved=0ahUKEwi8ocGTrrjSAhVBULwKHQk8Dx4QFggpMAM&usg=AFQjCNFQyP5kZ9Kb4KhlDTBB8mIvNyuvGA&sig2=bQQv2PXeuULgk8Ceje4QyQ

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,

Addressing International Seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles,Lt. Gen. Subrata Saha said:

http://idrw.org/make-combat-aviation-integral-part-mechanised-forces-lt-gen-subrata-saha/#more-126581

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAHUL: LoLz! So what you're saying is that one size fits all??? Does it say anywhere in that news-report that it can accommodate combat aircraft? Because all that I read was about RCS measurement of missiles, radars & UAVs. For those who don't have a clue about what an RCS measurement facility is, it serves 2 purposes at the same time: 1) RCS measurement of an airframe, & 2) EMI measurement. The entire enclosed facility therefore is a giant, enclosed anechoic chamber.

To SUVO: I know, I attended it. What the 'desi' news-report has reported is just about generalities. Hardly surprising that these 'desi' nitwits didn't even bother to report about what was actually discussed & revealed at the seminar by the DGMF!!!

To ANIK: Whatever has made you reach such a weird/bizarre conclusion? Work on Astra-2 began as far back as 2009 & it will make use of a locally-developed Ka-band active radar seeker instead of the current imported Ku-band seeker on the Astra-1 BVRAAM & the locally-developed Ku-band seeker on the QR-SAM. Autonomy in weapon systems is impossible to achieve for countries like China & India. Even Russia today uses US-supplied processor-chips for various avionics LRUs that are flying on members of the Su-30MK & MiG-29 families.

Chaos in some Indian universities is nothing but a motley bunch of self-deluding folks running around like headless chicken for as long as they can't fend for themselves & are dependent on the inflow of funds from their hardworking parents. Only after these morons start trying to earn money by entering the jobs market will the true reality dawn upon them. Against MRCAs & LACMs, not AAD but Astra's QR-SAM version will be the most effective. Usage of AAD to do this will be an expensive overkill.

To CHIRAG: What more is there to elaborate other than the fact that the Russian armed forces themselves have not inducted this helicopter into service. Does anyone want India's armed forces to end up as guinea-pigs for the benefit of Russia's United Helicopters JSC? And that too at a time when the LUH's developmental process bis smoothly proceeding ahead in lieu of receiving its certificate of airworthiness?

rad said...

hi prasun
the success of the aad is heartening . Me thinks that the the tech maturity developed can be used to build a s-400 type sam with our friend Israel ,we have the active seeker , tvc etc.what range SAM would the AAD have when turned into one
? T Hey have the arrow, ultra radar ,the c4I, software etc. I dont see the [point in spending 5 billion $ to get a sam when we can do it for lot less cheaper and not depend on russia again. The same barak 8 type partnership with deeper tot would be great . Why cant we move that way?

please give us dope on the AAD and PAD missile not what we know ,but of the homing head , radars, c4i etc. It is exciting to know more of the IIR homer head etc because that would be a stepping stone for an asat!!. We can mount it on a agni 2 missile etc , feasible?

are fly by wire comps and avionics emp hardened?

is USA tempting us by declaring a f-35 is only 85 mill$ a piece , cheaper than a rafale ??? how come ??

An india tubo shaft engine to power the alh,lch etc are people talking thru their arses.?

AMIT said...

Dear Sir

When I hear and look at RAHUL Gandhi ; it sends a Chill down my spine
because One day he can become the PM of India

This man who has Never done any serious work in his life
Has No administrative experience what so ever ; has Never read Any
Government file ( except to find out how much kick backs he is getting )

He also has dubious academic credentials and very supercial knowledge and understanding
on important matters except how can he get votes from some quarters

Are we Indians really so unfortunate that we will have to see such a Day

Asmit S. said...

But HAL said that they are building 1:1 model which will test it's stealth features.I don't know deep infos. but here's what ADA-CHeid said at Aero India 2017:

"First 1:1 full scale model of India’s fifth generation concept Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is being built in Bengaluru. Later this year, the model will undergo a series of rigorous tests at an RCS facility in Hyderabad, where the programme team will have its fest chance at seeing how the shape they’ve chosen for the jet deals with radiation. The exercise will be historic. Because it will be the first time India will be specifically testing a stealth airframe."

Apart from what he said,I came to know from a very reliable source that ADA has also built some new Aircraft testing facility in somewhere in Gujarat and Jodhpur.Suppose if they had built this facility and we do have such facility available,do you think India will have capability to make AMCA?

Unknown said...

Hey Prasun,

1) Recent reports are doing the round, about the HTSE-1200 with specs of 1200 kW @ 235 Kg(Compared to Shakti which is ~1000 kW ~ 205 Kg). If the specs are actually achieved what will the improvement in Power to Weight be due to? Or is it just what is the goal they wish to achieve?

2) Could you please clear a doubt on what is required to achieve the QR part of a QR-SAM.
Its chiefly the speed of the missile employed correct. Because the other aspects related to the radar and C4I should be similar for VL-ASTRA(~4M) ala desi-QRSAM and the AKASH(missile @ < 3M) complex right? Also in principle Barak-8 ala MRSAM would be quick reaction but expensive for VSHROADS application right?

3) Finally coming back to the topic of loitering missiles: The essential necessity is a lot of fuel correct. Because when loitering on not having found a target, the loiter part is simply searching for the target while doing waypoint navigation. The algorithm to do this is missile unspecific, so the Nirbhay could also do thing albeit for a much shorter duration if its to be done after it flies close to its max. range correct?

thanks,
Rajdeep

AVIRAL said...

Sir,
Why do you think that our armed forces have not ordered Rustum 1 UAV?
What will be the fate of Arjun mk2 tank??

And what do you think about this::: http://googleweblight.com/i?u=http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/make-combat-aviation-integral-part-of-mechanised-forces-lt-gen-subrata-saha/articleshow/57431402.cms&grqid=RgUAPNFJ&hl=en-IN

Arh93 said...

Prasun'da thanks for another great post.It's hard to get this kind of detailed report anywhere. (1) Can DRDO develope a early warning radar for Bmd based on Isro S-band (MOTR) developed to track space debry?
(2)Which radar is going to replace THD-1955? (3)1st Air&cosmos magazine then one Russian news outlet (RBTH) reported India signed the deal for 2 more A-50I Phalcon AEWCS. Is that true? (4)What happened to SAMHO? still in test or in production? Also when can we expect 1st MPATGM test? (5)Jindal steel signed a license deal with DRDO to produce High nitrogen steel for armour application.please shed some light on this?

Prav said...

@Asmit Whenever someone uses the word 'concept'to describe a product you can be sure that said product is far from development. Car companies make 'concept' models to make their fans happy. DRDO appears to be doing the same.

Anonymous said...

What do you make of this:

http://www.newindianexpress.com/thesundaystandard/2017/feb/12/army-losing-sniper-edge-over-pakistan-on-loc-1569609.html

Are PA quality that much better? Cause our guys are also equipped with some recent high-tech.

Rat

Arpit Kanodia said...

@Ashmit If ADA or HAL saying so, then let them make one and test the RCS of that. Like this

http://thehowlandcompany.com/images/10/F-35_RCS_Test03A.jpg

Why jump to conclusion?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASMIT S: LoLz! Did anyone from HAL or ADA really say all that? Because what you put in quotation marks was in fact the first unattributed para of a story by a ‘desi’ patrakaar that appeared here:

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/exclusive-indias-5th-gen-amca-targets-2030.html

And in the contradictory 2nd para, this is what was mentioned: Cmde C.D. Balaji said: ‘This will be our first big learning process. We need to be sure about the conformal antennas and shapes before we finalise the airframe’.

So, of the airframe design isn’t yet finalised, how can a 1:1 scale-model be built, leave alone being strung up for RCS measurement? And of what use is a conceptual scale-model of any design that will be bereft of RAM or RAP coatings? Won’t that give inaccurate RCS feedback? Thus, we can now conclude that what the ‘desi’ patrakaar reported was his own blinbd assumption & misinterpretation of the objective reality. Elsewhere in the world, conceptual designs are always first fabricated as 1/3rd scale-models that are first subjected to wind-tunnel tests & only after this are subjected to RAM/RAP coatings for RCS/EMI measurements. Now to what it takes to develop an AMCA-type MRCA.

For developing 4th-gen Rafale MRCA, Dassault Aviation, SCECMA Moteurs & THALES sunk an estimnated US$20 billion in R & D funds before the final end-product could emerge. Can you imagine how much will a similar endeavour for 5th-gen MRCA cost? As it is, many in India are baulking at the high cost of procuring Rafales & the Indian portion of funds for co-developing the FGFA with Russia. And Russia too is feeling the financial pinch of developing the T-50 PAK-FA simply because it does not possess the funds that its Western counterparts can easily find due to their vibrant commercial airliner sales successes. Post-USSR Russia to date has developed only 1 airliner—Super Sukhoi 100 Jet—that too with Western R & D inputs & it is now struggling to develop the MC-21 airliner. In short, without large-scale cutting-edge airliner output, there cannot be corresponding cutting-edge military platforms. This evolutionary & financial process can never be side-stepped. If you reckon India has some magic wand or formula to achieve any phenomenal short-cuts in this process, then kindly share them with us all here. And don’t forget that despite spending money, no one in India has been able to develop even a functional nose radome for the LCA MK.1, leave alone more complex stuff like flight-control actuators, fuel-flow pumps or wind/pressure sensors that are all imported even for platforms like the ALH. LCH & LUH. Even composite resins for airframe construction are being imported. Such sobering realities need to be understood & appreciated before deciding whether or not to develop or build any AMCA-type MRCA.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: LoLz! The AAD can take care of Pakistan’s Ghaznavis & Shaheen-1s PROVIDED X-band early warning radars are available. That’s not the case now. Only LRTRs won’t do the job. The S-400-based BMD system is not meant for neutralising the Pakistani BMs, but is actually meant to counter the more advanced BMs of China like the DF-16, DF-21, DF-24 & DF-26 type of BMs. ASAT weapons don’t require IIR seekers since the targetted satellites orbit in predictable paths & cannot be manoeuvred for hit avoidance. IIR seekers are outwitted by decoy MIRVs & that’s why RF-type Ka-band seekers are reqd.

To AMIT: LoLz! Don’t worry, for this ‘Pappu’ & his family will eventually be thrown out of the INC party because they are doing more harm than good to not just the INC but to the country as well. But a greater disruptive threat are the Leftists/Communists. Just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSzQM75vgNY

To RAJDEEP/UNKNOWN: 1) Actually, the HTSE-1200 is being developed for a slightly stretched version of the ALH that will see the ALH morphe from the existing 5.5-tonne MRH to a 7.5-tonne MRH. In fact, you may recall that back in 2005 HAL, CSIR & a few DRDO labs were trying to develop a fly-by-light flight-control system & it was all to do with this envisaged 7.5-tonne MRH version of the ALH that will have greater internal volume as well as more internal fuel for increased flight endurance. 2) 2 things: first, the missile round has to be cannister-encased for easy reloading, & 2 the target detection/ebgagement radars must be AESA-based. SAM-based VSHORADS is getting outdated since today laser-based air-defence systems for targetting low-flying airborne platforms are available & are getting cheaper by the day. 3) Any loitering missile carrying internal missile-based PGMs will also be reqd to internally carry a target detection sensor that can vector the smaller PGMs to their intended targets. The Nirbhay or any other LACM do not possess such target detection sensors reqd for the loitering phase.

To AVIRAL: Why hasn’t Rustom-1 been ordered? Simple: it is still under development. Fate opf Arjun Mk.2 MBT will be explained in detail in a brand-new thread by this weekend.

To ARH93: VMT: 1) Yes, it can be done with ease but it will have to be an X-band radar. 2) ATCR-33-S and Sir-S primary/secondary surveillance radars have already replaced the 13 THD-1955s under the MAFI programme. 3) Yes. 4) SAMHO was just a concept using the ‘desi’ CLGM developed for the Arjun MBT’s 120mm rifled-bore cannon. MPATGM’s technical trials are already underway. 5) A Google search will give you the answer.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAT: LoLz! On one hand the story opens with the allegation about the IA using 'obsolete' Dragunov sniper rifles & it then proceeds to say that the limitation is not that of the rifle, but of new-generation telescopic sights! In reality, the the real problem is the latter to some extent (not just sights, but also new-gen hand-held combined wind sensor/laser rangefinder is reqd) & the rules of engagement. If the adversary resorts to sniping, then the IA should target the nearest observation post of the PA or the Punjab Rangers with an artillery fire-assault & totally pulverise it. If reqd, even bring in a Mi-35P to fire an ATGM at the targetted post/bunker. All this will start happening in the near future.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the answer above. Do these guys just write articles and not even talk to anyone who has at least some degree of knowledge, say a retired IA personnel?

Another article, not sure how to take this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4277056/Winning-war-terror-badlands-Pakistan.html

Rat

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,

If possible,then please elaborate what Lt. Gen. Subrata Saha actually discussed in International Seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles.

Asmit S. said...

Thanks PS!
I do have some other questions for you:

1.What do you think about recent Scorpene-leak?Will it affect Indian Navy?
2.Suppose enemy missile is incoming towards a target city.And suppose a BMD system detects it and fires a missile to intercept it.Suppose it intercepts the missile.But after that interception,what will happen to it's debris?I mean that missile must have Nuke-warhead on it's cone.If the debris falls slightly away from the city,will the warhead be able to blast and have a Nuclear explosion?
3.Do you think India do have only 110-120 Nukes?
4.Who really do have Nukes? DAE or DRDO?And how much time approx. it takes to fire Agni-5 with Nuke payload?
5.According to Ex-DRDO Chief, V.K Saraswat,Agni-6 will be ready in next 2-3 years.What's your take on Agni-6?
6.Do you think India is capable to tackle China if China repeats 62-type invasion?
Thanks in Advance...I enjoy reading your articles on this blog.By the way,do you use FB or Twitter?

AVIRAL said...

GTRE is trying to revive Kaveri engine. Do they have Single Crystal blade technology to make a decent engine? We spent just $600 million on Kaveri but in the countries like US IS it takes AT least $ 2 billion to make a new engine even though they have best jet engine technologies?? Do you think funding and project clearance is a real hurdle in our defence project. For example: Tejas had its first flight in 2001 but the clearance for development radar was given in 1999 when the two TDs were already ready. Funds to develop the Tejas PVs was released only after the first flight of TD.

What is the status of ICV abhay?? There was a mild steel prototype but when we will see full scale prototype.

Any news on Bharat power packs being developed for tanks??
And do you think we still need to import assault rifles to replace INSAS. Army issued flobal RFI for a new assault. Are we helpless to make one on our own??

Unknown said...

Hi Prasun,

It seems the Pakis have been following you closely:
Yadav has become Jadhav : https://www.dawn.com/news/1318160/indian-spy-kulbhushan-jadhav-has-been-booked-will-be-prosecuted-sartaj-aziz
In this article they say they have sufficient evidence, but an article in The Hindu: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Aziz-admits-%E2%80%98insufficient-evidence%E2%80%99-on-Kulbushan-Jadhav/article16773329.ece?homepage=true
quotes Sartaj Aziz as saying they have enough evidence.

I hope we are taking good care of his family as if he wasn't working for us our reaction to this has been pusillanimous. I take note of your explanations earlier on his entrapment, but the bottom line is if he wasn't our guy(intelligence operative) and just a private individual who was kidnapped in the high seas I haven't seen any article stating what we are doing about it.

cheers,
Rajdeep

Srinivasa Nanduri said...

Hi Prasun,

China starting to put pressure on India against dalai lama visit to arunachal Pradesh, even threatening of serious damage in relationship And also some ambiguous news reports about adjustments in aksai chin if tawang is given to China.

How serious are these reports on border adjustments? And what is the real story hear?

Will this Sino Indian antagonism end at some point. Both leaderships are being stubborn wrt their actions.

Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri

Anonymous said...

Prasun, you are spot on communists.
See what the communist online site says about Muharram and Holi.
https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/837642224905023489

For Left/Commie anything HIndu is bad for them. They do not allow anyone to question them. They branded whoever question them as right wing/bhakt/RSS goon even if one does not have any connection with RSS/BJP/VHP.

In Kerala, already 11 RSS/BJP cadres have been killed, including a wife of a BJP cadre when commies set their house on fire. Both the husband and wife died. Their 10 month old kid was seriously injured, but saved. Very tragic.
But those Award Wapasi brigades who returned the awards when a Muslim was burnt alive are conveniently forget these atrocities committed by Commies in Kerala. One Journalist husband said, Commies only killed goons. So for him it is okay for Commies to kill "goons." So what is the need of police and court?
This hypocrisy of leftist media and left are changing people to pro-ABVP/BJP. And the left's partial reporting of Hindu crime, not Muslim/Christian crimes have been exposed by Social Media, through which the truth is coming out.
But It is high time that politics should be out of educational institutions. Even in my school days in Kerala, I have seen many school days have been lost by student political strikes especially by SFI. ABVP was virtually non existing at that time. I have seen these young students, not even 15 years old, thrashing street lights, public property, buses etc. Moreover, these student leaders hardly attend the classes. During exams, these leaders get help from outside- for example: the leader will throw out the question paper through the window. Somebody will be waiting for this and these guys will take them to nearest party office, get the answers and then send back to the exam hall in 30-45 mts. The leader will get back the answers with through the window. And they pass. I know one such student leader, now is a big commie leader in Thrissur district in Kerala.
I can write a big books on Commie violence and their hypocrisy.

Ravi_N

Sam said...

Sir, any news on the indigenous SSN project?
SAM

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAT: LoLz! Trust me, they don’t & that’s why from September 29 last year they started spinning Tom Clancy-inspired yarns about how the cross-LoC raids were conducted (i.e. usage of helicopters), & fictitious stiff about the IA’s SF (Para) raiding parties being equipped with BPJs, knee-pads, palm-tops etc etc . In reality, all they did was watch the Hollywood flick ZERO DARK THIRTY & extrapolate whimsical stuff from there. If a raiding party like the SEALs is expected to carry out a heliborne insertion & is not required to walk more than 200 metres on foot (as was the case with OP Neptune’s Spear), then they can don as many protective gear as they want to. But if a SOF team is to traverse more than 2km inside hostile territory on foot & exfiltrate the same way, then the last piece of hardware they need to don is their protective gear, because they won’t want to be worn down by weight that can affect their mobility & endurance. Instead, they will be lightly dressed & opt to carry more comms, night-vision devices, mine-proof boots & ammo reloads because they will attack when & where they are least expected from high ground & will therefore not be exposed to effective hostile counter-fire.

Coming now to Pakistan, the latest spate of suicide terror attacks throughout Pakistan were carried out by Pakistani citizens who had sought temporary refuge inside Afghanistan but have since been returning back to FATA & the tribal agencies as temporarily displaced persons (TDP). This alone proves that the PA, FC , Levies, etc etc cannot effectively dominate the Durand Line no matter how hard they try. On top of that, the US drone strikes are continuing inside such areas & since the PA cannot retaliate against them or stop them, anger among the local tribals seeps in & only bloody retribution against Pakistan will satisfy them since they are convinced that such drone strikes are taking place with the PA’s approval.

Coming now to their doublespeak, while it is easy to blame George Bush Jr’s & Tony Blair’s misguided decision to invade Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein in 2003 as the trigger for Pakistan’s descent into horror, the Pakistanis turn a blind eye to the fact that Pakistani citizens like Ramzi Youssef & Khalid Sheikh Mohd targetted the WTC Twin Towers in 1993 itself, long before OP Enduring Freedom or OP Iraqi Freedom. And despite UNSC resolutions, Pakistan shipped weapons to the Afghan Taliban till October 10, 2001 along with 10,000 Pashtun mercenaries assembled from FATA. Thus, what Pakistan is now reaping is the whirlwind it itself had unleashed since the mid-1970s during the reign of PM Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUVO: He being from Army Aviation Corps didn’t say anything specific about armoured vehicles. The DG Mechanised Forces did & he did so in private during the tea-breaks.

To ASMIT S: 1) Had already discussed that in detail in a previous thread. 2) Mother gravity will bring the debris on to the surface. No nuke warhead ever explodes on the ground. They are all pre-set to be exploded at a certain pre-determined altitude. 3) How many more are reqd & against whom? 4) Both have components. No ine party has the whole warhead during peacetime. It can take up to 6 hours to fully assemble a BM for launch. 5) There’s no such BM named Agni-6. The definitive SLBM with MIRVs is often mistaken to be the Agni-6. 6) Of course. It was tackled way back in 1986 itself during the Wangdung/Sumdorong Chu affair. 7) No FB or Twitter for me, ever.

To AVIRAL: LoLz! Why are you fixated on SCBs? What about the turbofan’s core, where all the heat gets generated when combustion takes place? That’s the holy grail of engine technology & that’s where rare-earth materials are reqd. All that SNECMA Moteurs has done is hold 2 meetings with GTRE & ADA during which SNECMA agreed to advise GTRE on the reqd improvements to Kaveri (advice only, no material assistance), advise GTRE for obtaining airworthiness certification of the Kaveri & help GTRE mount such a kaveri on a MiG029 testbed for trials-flights. Similarly, Dassault Aviation has so far only expressed its desire to participate in the AMCA project & Ghaatak project by way of offering its expertise on integrated fleet logistics. That’s all. Abhay was only a technology demonstration exercise & was never meant to enter series-production. No foreign OEM or design house has expressed any interest in any Bharat Pack. Reply to INSAS replacement has already been given several times before.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAJDEEP/UNKNOWN: 1) LoLz! Now let’s see how they go about the process of filing a chargesheet. India will never use any of her citizens for conducting such activities on foreign soil. That’s the difference between a welfare state like India, & a national security state like Pakistan that doesn’t even want to reclaim the dead-bodies of its soldiers! On one hand these morons claim that 60% of Afghan territory is under the Taliban & on the other hand they claim that R & AW and the NDS are roaming unhindered throughout Afghanistan! It is because of such inconsistencies in the Pakistani narrative that no one in the world believes them.

BTW, do watch this latest grim analysis of Pakistan’s future economy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggRA6Efab5s

To SRINIVASA NANDURI: You must be referring to these 2 news-clippings:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/china-ready-to-cede-land-for-part-of-arunachal-pradesh/articleshow/57438182.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/defying-china-india-to-host-dalai-lama-in-arunachal/articleshow/57448261.cms

What all this indicates, & what China now fears most, is that the stage is being set to ensure that the next Dalai Lama reincarnates somewhere in Tawang. This is a long-haul game that certainly won’t end as per China’s wishes, whims & fancies, rest assured.

Pratap said...

Prasun, i dont understand why the hell is China so scared of peaceful person like Dalai Lama. Whole world knows that Tibet will never secede away from PRC. Even the Dalai Lama and Tibetan govt in exile doesn't want secession. Then what explains China's fears?

rad said...

hi prasun
you mentioned that another version of ALH is coming . This is a new chopper by all means .what is the necessity to have a chopper in between the alh and the mi-17 ? when the chopper lines are in full swing.?

what would be our anti cruise missile scenario regarding pak as any conflict will see a barrage of missiles from both sides?how are the aerostat being deployed ? what is the capability of the american aerostat supplied to pak can they be jammed ?can the pick up cruise missiles ?

what are our options regarding kulbushan yadav?. we have to save that poor fellow. How about a raid to capture a pak officer like wise?

we have developed Xband TRMM modules for aesa, we can do the software .what stops us from making a ABM radar like the russians?

Is the arjun mk2 in trouble ? why?.Third party israel has vouched for the arjun ,why is the IA acting like a shy bride?




himanshu vij said...

Sir what will happen to these Soviet supplied Sam ??? & Has the production of Akash missile gone up up to 100 per month & at what rate the Swati radar would be manufactured !
Do we have a 2 seater LCA Tejas ? I mean the trainer if yes then what's it's status ?

AVIRAL SINGH said...

S Cristopher Said : "in this new project, a booster will lift
the missile up, and the turbofan will
take the missile to the desired loca-
tion within 1,000 km. i
n the final flight
stage, we will ditch the turbofan, fly
with another engine which will take the
missile to the supersonic speed and hit
the target"....Which missile is this?? It has terminal Supersonic Stage....

Anonymous said...

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2017/mar/03/india-reasserts-right-to-host-dalai-lama-in-arunachal-pradesh-1577196.html

Dalai lama card is soon going to expire for India..prbly within decade....as he was last on line with no successor....now china will project some puppet as dalai lama as they did with panchen lama to retain supremacy over tibetan buddism and thus consolidating supremacy over tibet.....sadly india has no leverage over china


regards
Ron

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRATAP: LoLz! Those living in a welfare state will always ask such innocent questions because they have never experienced what it is to be the citizen of a one-party state. The Dalai lama is not only the spiritual leader, but is also embraced by Tibetans as a temporal (ruling) leader. That’s why the Tibetans have always been asking for regional political/economic autonomy even while accepting China’s sovereignty over TAR. But this directly goes against the Communist Party of China’s (CPC) one-party commandment, because if one region were to be granted such autonomy, several other regions will raise similar demands & this then will lead to the emergence several centrres of power that will marginalise the CPC. The CPC therefore has mandated that political, administrative & financial powers can never be devolved or shared & so this will ensure the CPC’s perpetuity. Thus, any figure like the Dalai lama or anyone else who claims to have widespread popularity inside Chinba (like some cult leaders) automatically ends up becoming a direct existential threat to the CPC & by extention the state. This the mindset of any CPC card-holder.

To RAD: A stretched 7.5-tonne ALH won’t be brand-new design that will eventually supercede the existing 5.5-tonne bALH. This is natural universal progression. Pakistan has limited stocks of LACMs (not more than 80) & will therefore use them sparingly. Pakistani aerostat’s don’t possess radar sensors, but optronic sensors for border surveillance. The IAF’s aerostat-mounted EL/M-2083 radars will be deployed in areas that are mountainous (i.e. J & K) terrain so as to deny the PAF the natural advantages of terrain-masking, which had been resorted to in both 1965 & 1971. Kulbhushan Jadhav (& not Yadav) will eventually be released, rest assured.

To HIMANSHU VIJ: The Soviet-era SAMs will all be phased out of service due to obsolescence. Rates of production increase with each passing year as industrial proficiency at the assembly-line increases proportionally. Every MRCA (except of course the JF-17) always has a tandem-seater variant for operational conversion.

To AVIRAL SINGH: That’s the Pralay, as descfribed by Dr S Christopher in the February 2017 issue of FORCE magazine.

lachit said...

prasun previously u mentioned that u were going to post the pic of drdo ARM

hope u did not forget about it

also i have a query
is the drdo NG LGB a different project from the winged and the non winged glide PGMs ?

AFAIK from ur posters non winged glide bomb is a 450 kg HSLD PGM

while from other sources NG LGB is a one tonne PGM

is the info on NG LGB correct ?

thanks

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,
Pakistan govt approves merger of FATA with Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/pakistan-govt-approves-merger-of-fata-with-khyber-pakhtunkhwa/articleshow/57435187.cms

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

1) How many years from now will it be before the definitive SLBM with MIRVs is first tested ?

2) Would an Agni-V variant with MIRVs be tested earlier ? If so, when ?

3) Would Pakistan have more warheads than us after the ababeel is deployed ?

Satyaki

সুমন্ত নাগ said...

Prasun Da,

Is the characteristics of Pralay be a mix of CVS401 Perseus of MBDA and Delilah missile of IMI ?

i.e. Acting as Mother Missile like Perseus, while retaining the loitering character of Delilah ?

Thanks in advance.

rad said...

hi prasun
according to drdo 2015 report there is a SFDR solid fuel ducted ramjet ie ram jet project going on on and the mentioned range is 120 km. Pse throw some light on it , i presume it is for a ramjet air to air missile . Will they give the tech to the chinks ?

what happened to the ramjet powered aa-12 missile they had developed?.

what advantages does the ku band missile seeker being developed have over the ka band /

is it for the qrsaam?

russia to help india for amca engine ? true , is it good , will they offer hot core tech?

will the super sukhois come with new engines or refurbish old existing ones?



Srinivasa Nanduri said...

Hi Prasun,

What are your thoughts on the below articles which paint a depressing picture for India:

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/oped/shrewd-diplomacy-is-way-ahead.html

http://www.atimes.com/china-draws-red-line-taunts-indias-modi/

Why are these veteran Indian analysts give such a bleak picture. Is there truth to any of this and is govt. of the day overplayed its hand with regard to China?

Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri

john said...

You had written earlier that MOD will be ordering 3 more scorpene subs. When can we expect this or data leak killed it.

Adi said...

Hi Prasun
There's a Rudra Mk2 being developed for 489 crores. Sanction was given last year. What are they adding to the helicopter? Any info on this?\

Finally what is Anvesha?

Thanks

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

Last week Russian website Sputnik reported that Indian Navy has released a 14 page RFI for Surface to Air Missiles

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201703021051164922-india-range-sam/

However the IN website is not showing any such RFI.

Is it true that an RFI for SAM has been released by IN and MBDA seems to be a favorite to win (according to Sputnik's interpretation)?

Thanks,

VIKRAM

Chirag said...

Hi prasun,
Regarding Arihant class submarine,are they on par with existng Chinese nuclear sub technically,is it more silent than the Chinese sub ,how do you rate it among top 5

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: LoLz! Here it is: http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del886008&wno=1&td=TD

The winner will probably be the C-Dome from RAFAEL since it is being proposed with the existing FCS of the Barak-1 that is already in service with the In & will therefore be the cheapest & easiest to acquire & integrate.

To CHIRAG: S-2/S-72 Arihant's acoustic signature is far far less than any existing PLAN n-powered submarine, rest assured.

To ADI: That's the version of Rudra with the Rudrastra, i.e. cannister-encased HELINA. The HELINA has to date demonstrated daytime firings up to 5km & efforts are on to increase seeker sensitivity out to 7km. Similarly, the Nag during daytime in the deserts has seeker sensitivity out to only 4km & this now being increased to 6km. Anvesha is the FCS radar for the IAF's QR-SAM & follows names like Arudhra, Ashwini, Ashlesha.

To JOHN: They will be ordered ONLY AFTER the IN is fully convinced about the functionality of the DRDO-developed AIP module.

Devopriyo said...

Hi Prasun,

Is it possible for you to share the articles you pen for Force India in this forum?

SAM-7 said...

hello sir,
Is the replacement of insas by a 7.62 mm rifle confirmed? Has the army considered other calibres like 6.5 grendel that provide similar performance to 7.62 NATO with recoil similar to 7.62 X 39. also ak47 can nbe easily be rechambered to grendel as it is derived from the 7.62 X 39.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LACHIT: I haven’t forgotten. Am awaiting its high-rez photos. NG-LGB is a rocket-powered LGB (similar to the AASM HAMMER) whose photo I had uploaded in part-1 of my Aero India 2017 show report. The Sudarshan family of LGBs & the JDAM-type PGMs are all glide bombs with outsized fins, but don’t have any wings. The 1-tonne LGB will have BOTH outsized fins & a wing-kit.

To SATYAKI: 1) It is at least another 7 years away. 2) Yes, by late 2018. 3) LoLz! Of course not, & it never will, rest assured.

To SUMANTA NAG: Not entirely. The Pralay will use a jettisionable solid-fuel rocket booster (like that for BrahMos & Nirbhay) to attain height & transition from the vertical to horizontal plane, following which the booster will be jettisioned & the turbofan will take over for the cruise/loitering phase. Once the targets are located, the turbofan section will be jettisioned & the remaining portion of the missile will be powered by solid-fuel ducted ramjet (SFDR) for quick arrival near the target site & then the belly of the missile will open to unleash 3 or 4 solid-fuel powered PGMs equipped with miniature IMR/SAR seekers. The Russians have pioneered this design concept for attacking land-based TELs of NLOS-BSMs & TBMs & GLCMs.

To RAD: SFDR is for Project Pralay but it can also be used to power ARMs or ASCMs. Ku-band seekers have been in usage since the late 1980s. Ka-band is the new-generation seeker with greater seeker sensitivity & accuracy. Thus, in future, all guided-missiles now using Ku-band seekers will transition to Ka-band seekers. I don’t see how Russia can help India develop new-generation turbofans for AMCA unless & until it is first able to develop the definitive turbofan for the FGFA. Engine cores of all turbofans imported from the USSR & Russia since the 1960s have come directly from the USSR/Russia. They were never licence-built in India. No one supplies the know-how/know-why of engine cores to anyone else.

To SRINIVASA NANDURI: LoLz! By now you must have realised that such commentaries are usually the byproducts of erroneous analysis that appear from time to time in the ‘desi’ media. Hence, the conclusions of such commentaries too will be way off-the-mark & are highly speculative since they don’t give out the truth. For instance, how can there be any inter-operability between the armed forces of China & Pakistan when they can’t even communicate in a common language? One uses Mandarin & the other uses English. That’s why in all the Shaheen series of joint air exercises, the PAF has always been used as ‘Aggressors’ by the PLAAF. Never were joint or combined force packages planned or employed during these exercises. If the Indian PM is invited to Beijing for the OBOR-related Summit meeting, then he should go & there articulate India’s national PoV about OBOR by saying that if China is really interested in India joining the OBOR initiatives, then China should prove its sincere credentials by 1) reinstating the Trade Representative Offices of India in Lhasa & Kasghar that were unilaterally closed by China in the 1950s, & 2) allowing Russia (as part of the Eurasian Customs Union initiative) to construct a gas supply pipeline from Kazakhstan down to J & K via Aksai Chin. In fact, these points were highlighted in Beijing during the recently-concluded Strategic Dialogue, but the as-usual ‘desi media experts’ didn’t even bother to dwell upon all this!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/lack-of-helicopters-hits-navys-operational-capabilities-against-enemy-submarines/articleshow/57481765.cms

Now let's use which is the world's only 'OEM' that can refurbish/upgrade the Sea King Mk.42Bs & Mk.42Cs. If the OEM has been identified as the Yeovil-based AgustaWestland Helicopters PLC in the UK, then Messers Parikkar, Amit Shah et all will no longer be able to prove the indefensible, i.e. that AgustaWestland Helicopters PLC is not an OEM. It's high time the real anti-national arseholes & imbeciles were unmasked & exposed.

Jha said...

Holy crap 490cr is nearly $8 million!! so much money just to integrate the launchers? Have they gone senile?

RJS said...

Hi Prasun ,

W.r.t your reply to Srinivasa Nanduri , you have rejected the arguments put forward by the authors of the said news articles namely M.K.Bhadrakumar & the other being Pravin Sawhney . Interestingly, Pravin Sawhney happens to be the editor to the magazine you're a contribution to - Force India.Ive just begun reading his - Dragon On Our Doorstep . He seems to have painted a rather pessimistic portrait of our chances against China in the future as far as a peaceful or honourable settlement of the border goes .My questions to you are - What do you think are our options as far as settling the boundary problem goes ? Dai Bingguo has hinted that if India were willing to cede Tawang they'd be willing to accommodate India's concerns though he hasn't spelt it out .What's your take in it ? What in your opinion should be our response to the OBOR ?Finally , with the Trump Administration here it seems everyone in the neighbourhood is on tenterhooks as to what his policies for Asia will be , including India ? Do you think that de fanging Pakistan of its N weapons is still on the cards ? You had mentioned 2018 as the timeline for it.You had also speculated that India may up the ante this summer against Pakistan going so far as to launch pre emmtive strikes , seize the Chickens neck corridor or perhaps even the Haji Pir pass.Are these likely anytime this year ?Finally , it seems the way N Korea os going about boosting it's N arsenal and delivery systems, taunting the US at every step , it seems the US is more likely to move against it than Pakistan .What's your view in it considering in your earlier reply to this question a few months back , you mentioned 2020 and later as timelines in which the US would mount a campaign agsinst N Korea .

Thanks in advance ,

Warm regards

Unknown said...

Hi Prasun,

1) What is the progress on Project 17A. Has the design been frozen, in particular will it have the MF-STAR with Barak8, Brahmos combo. When is construction expected to begin.

2) I recently saw somewhere that the IA issued/intended to issue an RFI for heli launched anti-tank missiles(Was the previous one on the same cancelled, if there was a previous one?). Is this insurance against Helina taking too long/not matching capabilities of PAR3-LR.

3) RM in an interview to Nitin Gokhale, said that the C-295(with winglet presumably) was at the CNC stage. Are we really going ahead with this then?

4) Since you have mentioned about the fuselage extended, MTOW enhanced HTSE1200 powered Dhruv, would you have a link with what it schematically looks like, timeline and any other improvements(raked rotor tips is one that comes to mind)?

thanks,
Rajdeep
(I log in with my gmail so can't figure out why it always shows unknown)

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

The K-4 test that was first scheduled for January end and then mid Feb has been postponed again. Is this for political reasons ? At this rate, when will the K-4 be operational ?

Satyaki

AMIT BISWAS said...

sir after reading your comment over k9 , whether indian army is at all interested in inducting k9 thunder and arjun mk 2 or this k9 thunder tender will be cancelled??

Varunn said...

Prasun, wrt Afghanistan India alone cannot counter the pro Taliban block that is now building where Russia is now coming closer to Taliban and Pakistan, China is firmly on Pakistan's side as always, and even for Iran the main enemy in Afghanistan is now ISIS not Taliban. And amid all this there are now reports of Chinese troops operating inside Afghanistan which Pentagon has now confirmed. Russia, China, Iran and Pakistan all are actively working together to push US out of the region. Meanwhile US is too preoccupied with internal politics. In the light of all these developments chances of a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan are very high now.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JHA: What’s the use of undertaking installation/integration work if the much reqd ATGMs themselves are not ordered for test-firings? Have you factored in this reqmt?

To RJS: LoLz! Just because I’m a contributor to FORCE does not mean I will agree with each & every PoV of that magazine’s editor or publisher, because all my editorial contributions are voluntary & are FoC, i.e. I don’t charge or don’t get paid any money for the contributions nor do I force my contributions on anyone. May sound strange to you, but that’s me. Unlike others, I don’t indulge in ifs, mays, maybes, could, etc etc because if used, they can be pretty self-deluding & utopian. Instead, I prefer to use firm event-markers from which cogerent inferences can be drawn. Now to the other answers: 1) Onviously a territorial swap on the lines suggested by China is a no-brainer because India can’t give away a populated/settled area like Tawang in exchange for uninhabitated desolate salt-plains of Aksai Chin. Similarly, India cannot anymore accept the validity of the One China policy if China does not reciprocate with a One India policy, i.e. accepting India’s sovereignty over PoK & the Trans-Karakoram Tract about which the Chinese officials have chosen to remain silent. 2) What India’s reponse to OBOR should be has already been spelt out inb an earlier reply above: if China is really sincere about OBOR’s ability to promote regional connectivity, then it should demonstrate its sincerity by re-opening India’s Trade Representative Offices in Lhasa & Kasghar. 3) Everyone except India is on tenderhooks WRT Trump Administration. Do read the concluding para of this story:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/as-afghanistans-security-worsens-kabul-back-in-focus-of-indias-foreign-policy/articleshow/57484589.cms

3) WRT what & how will matters unfold WRT PoK & Chicken’s Neck area, do wait for the snows to fully melt. From the 3rd week of this month the PA will be fully tied-up with providing security for the national census of Pakistan. 4) Now that South Korea has agreed to station THAAD, let’s see how much longer China persists in supporting & feeding DPRK.

Lastly, we don’t have to get carried away by OBOR and the like, for OBOR is nothing but the construction of China-financed roadways & railways that will carry China-made goods into all those smaller & underpopulated countries around its periphery. India has no tangible benefits UNLESS China agrees to restore India’s ancient tradeing practices in TAR & Xinjiang. Instead, India can spend a lot more energies & human resources in inking FTAs with the GCC member-states that will be beneficial to India in several ways. Here’s 1 example:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/to-feed-uae-india-plans-special-farms-infrastructure-for-export/articleshow/57484504.cms

To UNKNOWN: 1) Yes, the detailed design has been frozen & it will have all those hardware you’ve mentioned. The lead hull’s fabrication will begin later this year. 2) HELINA already goes out till 5km. meaning the missile works & is of sound design. Only seeker sensitivity needs an increase so that 7km can be attained & this is a modification easily achieved. So I will not bother about any RFI so long that it does not translate into an RFP. 3) I no longer believe any of this RM’s soundbytes because 99.9% of the time he’s just blowing hot air. For instance, he had earlier stated that the K-9 Vajra’s contract would be inked in early January 2017, but so far this hasn’t happened. This RM therefore voraciously butes far more than he can chew. 4) The stretched ALH is still in the design stage & no illustrations of it is available. Just imagine it with greater internal colume & an increased fuselage length. The nose & tail sections will pretty much stay the same.

Raman said...


Prasun: a stupid question: What is holding back the F125IN engine upgrade of the Darin III Jaguar ?? it seems such a simple, logical,cost effective solution.......or is there the 'cannot trust/predict US Policy in the long term' Syndrome playing out here............

joydeep ghosh said...

@prasun da

1. something tells me the AMCA will eventually morph into FGFA

2. If the stretch ALH is a reality

a does it mean the original ALH will cease to exist

b. better chance to export may to Eqaudor first

c. should their be a LCH Mk2 based on stretched ALH

3. looks like IJT & HTT40 both have been consigned to duustbin post AeoroIndia 2017


your views

Thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

joydeep ghosh said...


few m0re Q

4. Will the original ALH cease production

5. My prediction is activity on Chicken neck will happen only if BJP loses 5 states (results out 11 mar) as things are going its fight between Congress & AAP for 1 & 2 in Goa/Punjab, it may be Congress again in Uttrakhand/Manipur with slender majority and it will be SP & Congress in 1st position in UP & may form govt again with others help. So BJP to turn the tide once will resort to activity on Chicken neck

6. Dont you think someone must tell to NDA/RSS/Bajrang Dal/ABVP people sitting in power "Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first." - Charles de Gaulle

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Sudipta said...

1. Sir as 7.5 tonne Dhruv is on design phase is there any chance that more capable Attack Helicopter will follow.
2. Sir you said that the land attack version and the anti ship versions of Brahmos is actually same missile with different programming. Is it possible to reprogram through CMS or it is done during manufacturing.
3. Why pseudo Gandhi is inside the head of every politician? Why wait and watch and do nothing. We want others to declare Pak a terrorist state but we still give MFN status to Pak. Then why should others listen to just because of our economical status?
4. What will happen if majority voters vote for NOTA? Or we need an old style civil war to change the system.

Anonymous said...

Hello Prasunda,
Please see the link
https://www.dawn.com/news/1318594/afghanistan-will-never-recognise-the-durand-line-hamid-karzai

Can we expect some action on this front in near future.

Also do you envision any future Indian Defence forces stationing in Afghanistan.

Best regards
Harsh Kumar

rad said...

hi prasun
IS the helina seeler cooled or uncooled , if not cooling will increase the range.
Is it a design fault or its it a factor that affects all IIR seekers in desert conditions ?.How does the spike and javelin fare in these conditions?.

why have we not made a laser homing version as an equal to the hell fire which is simpler and less costlier and can be used on non important targets like structures . bunkers etc,?

are we going in for the 7.62x39mm or 51 mm rifles?

the best way to improve the MSMG 5.6x 30 mm submacine gun is to give to a renowned designer like the h$k , colt, walther, IWI etc . any scope for that? what is the basic fault in in its design ?

Asmit S. said...

Hello PS!
My questions:

1.Recently,Indian Army announced that it will replace INSAS rifle with any foreign rifle.If I am not wrong,DRDO along with one ordinance factory designed a Rifle which didn't faced any kind of problem.It was named MCIWS.But so far, I never heard any news related to that rifle.What really happened?

2.What is your personal choice between F-16 Block70/72 or SAAB Gripen NG.

3.How far is India progressing in Missile Seeker technology?

4.When will we hear about INS Aridhaman(2nd-Arihant Class Submarine)commissioning?

5.What is the Blast Yield of Agni-5?And what is the Maximum Blast yield of our Nukes(for ex.Russia does have Max. 50MT)?

6.Do you think Pakistan will disintegrate in near future like it did in 71?

Thanks in Advance........

Anonymous said...

Hello Sir,

This is scary:

http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2017/03/06/bigotry-must-be-condemned-in-india-or-america/

I am not a fan of this man, but he is standing up for indians int eh USA. Where is our government. We may be NRI but still indians.

Why is it more indians are getting attacked?

Amit

AniOne said...

Prasunda,

As you mentioned previously, that ground work for the incarnation of Dalai Lama has started beginning with current Dalai Lama visit to Arunachal Pradesh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLY45o6rHm0

Here is John Oliver, host of Last Week Tonight on HBO doing a full episode on Dalai Lama. I am expecting that China will start increasing the verbal volume very much & what other steps should we expect from China.

What do you think Sir that how this will play out in near future & what exactly is at stake here.

Very Much Thanks in advance

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

Thanks for the link to the SAM RFI.

The RFI states: " Feasibility of using existing radars like Fregat MAE,Fregat M2EM, AMDR2D, AMDR 3D, RAWL 08/ 02,MFSTAR, 3D SAR"

(1) How can the system be compatible with Russian(Fregat MAE, Fregat M2EM), French (RAWL 08/02) radars?

(2) Which radars are these - AMDR2D, AMDR. Are they US made radars?

(3) Apart from the Israeli C-Dome missile what are the other systems (from other vendors) that are likely to be pitched to the Indian Navy?

Regards,

VIKRAM

Sam said...

Sir, please forgive me if this question is stupid: 1.Can Arihant class SSBNs be used as an SSN(i.e. in sea denial role) successfully?
2. Where does the arihant stand with regard to its acoustic signature? Which Russian sub class is it most similar to in this respect?
SAM (I used to comment as anonymous)

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,
Russian President Mr. Putin is visiting Israel in a week. Mr. Modi is visiting Israel in 3-6 months. Do you think, India and Russia can broke a deal between Israel and Iran? If there is a such deal, then it would be good for Iran. But it will be hard nut to crack, especially for the Mullahs (Khomeini-s in Iran. The whole purpose of them being in center page in Iran is anti-Israli propaganda). If such a deal is indeed taken place, Hezbollah will not target Israel. Will that situation arise? Iran is going to profit a lot. After all, many Palestinians fought with ISIS against Syrian regime and Hizbollah. I feel it could be better for Iran if Hizbollah change its ideology from anti-Israel to something else.

I noticed that (may be I am wrong), among the Muslim countries, Iran (Shia) contributes the maximum scholars in science and technology, compared to Sunni counterparts. Iranians are more acceptable to western culture than Sunnis.
But it won't be easy for Iranians/SHia. If they dilute their anti-Israel stance, the entire Muslim community will be against Iran. Even in India, the Shias will be accused as traitor by Communists and Islamic intellectuals.
But a peace between Israel and Iran is a good deal for Central Asian countries economically and can destroy Islamic terrorism.

Ravi_N

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Prasun,

How does the extended range Brahmos alter the Indo-Pak conventional balance of power? Can we hit their Air bases like Sargodha or Karachi or Jacocabad and deal them a body blow?

Is it a potential game changer?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAMAN: It’s all about the money/funding factor. There’s a paucity of available funding.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Why should the stretched ALH’s service entry lead to the closure of the existing production line of ALHs? And how can any HAL-built helicopter be exported to another corner of the world when the reqd MRO eco-system for such helicopters doesn’t even exist in that part of the world? Leave alone helicopters, have you ever come across any India-built truck or automobile in service in that part of the world? The LCH is already a 7.5-tonne helicopter. And all those entities like VHP, RSS, Bajrang Dal, AVBP etc etc are completely off the rocker because they can’t distinguish between proud patriotism versus zenophobic nationalism. That’s the root of the problem & hence we nowadays see totally condused & delusional barratives emanating from such entities.

To SUDIPTA: 1) The LCH is already a 7.5-tonne helicopter. 2) All such embeeding of the operating aklgorithms are done during the processor fabrication stage itself. Hence all seekers imported from Russia are not re-programmable while those now being developed in India for BrahMos-NG or Nirbhay will be re-programmable. 4) Better than NOTA is the ‘Right to Recall’ option under which those elected officials who don’t perform in their constituencies or those parties who can’t deliver can be told to step down even before the completion of their 5-year electoral terms so that suitable replacements can be sought. Varun Gandhi has already tabled a Private Member’s Bill to this effect in Parliament.

To HARSH KUMAR: Action has already begun. Haven’t you heard about the recent counter-bombardment across the Durand Line by the Afghan National Army? This was made possible by India supplying funds to Afghanistan so that 122mm D-22 & 130mm M-46 howitzers could be bought from Russia. That’s what forces the Pakistani officials in a tizzy & that’s whgat they always imply whenever they talk about a ‘foreign hand’ influencing Afghan affairs.

To RAD: Both Nag & HELINA have the same UNCOOLED seeker whose effectiveness is degraded only from 11am till 4pm in the deserts. Rest of the time it works just fine. Only the MPATGM uses a cooled seeker just like the Javelin ATGM. Spiker ATGMs failed the field trials in Pokhran. Laser-homing ATGMs or SAMs won’t work in the desert in daytime. It’s the 7.62 x 51 GHAATAK SLR.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASMIT S: 1) It’s the OFB Ishapore Rifle Factory-built 7.62 x 51 GHAATAK SLR. 2) None of them. 3) Just fine. 4) How can it be commissioned if it has not even been launched as yet? 5) Not known, since it is still under development. 6) It already has. That’s why nbo one there is taking any interest in its upkeep. Watch these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZwpQrArUKE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BirdWr2_R1o

To AMIT: Why Indiand are getting attacked there is for the very same reasons why migrants from UP, Bihar or Jharkand get attacked in Mumbai. It’s the same mindset.

To ANIONE: All this cacophony inside China always takes a frontseat during the annual session of the National People’s Congfress in March every year. Nothing much to worry about.

To VIKRAM GUHA: What it means is that the selected system’s performance should not be degraded by EMI. INS Delhi P-15 DDG had encountered such problems back in 2001 when the Barak-1 was installed on board. Competing systems are the VL-MICA & the AIM-132 ASRAAM’s VL-SAM version.

SAM: 1) It can, if it is armed with BrahMos-1 ASCMs. Then this boat will be transformed into an SSGN. 2) The Project 971 SSGN.

To RAVI_N: Where’s the need to broker any such deal? The present govt of Iran immediately after taking office had officially distanced itself from the previous Iranian govt’s threat to wupe Israel off the world map.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAM BHARADWAJ: The BrahMos-1--be it the 290km version or the 550km version--comes equipped with the SGH imaging SAR seeker that enables the missile to home in at the terminal stage with near-perfect accuracy & can therefore be used with devastating effect against static targets like HAS within air bases, MRO hangars, bridges, railway junctions, oil storage tank farms, ammo storage warehouses, etc etc. In other words, combat aircraft loaded with PGMs need not be used for carrying out such attacks, thereby freeing up the IAF's combat aircraft fleets to focus on other areas. As it is, GPS-aided inertial navigation systems on JDAM-equipped bombs can land within 13 metres (42 feet) of their target, which isn't high-precision strike.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Excellent ground reports from Balochistan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4EC9VJRXfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heV59HxaULI

Anonymous said...

Hi,

You said "Both Nag & HELINA have the same UNCOOLED seeker".

I thought Helina has a cooled IIR seeker. There's a video of a lecture by Helina's Project Director, where he talks about the external cooling provided (couple of hours per sortie) for target acquisition .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCp85Y30ybk

Further, I think there's an miniaturized cryogenic cooler within the missile for cooling while in flight. It appears that DRDO director Christopher (while referring to limited range during day time) was referring to the fact that the ambient temperature and the target temperature were similar (even though he might have worded it a confusing way). The fix to the problem maybe to get a higher resolution seeker (?)

Please clarify.

Also, You mentioned that LCH is already a 7.5 tonne helicopter. How is this possible when the engine is similar to that of Dhruv? Are you suggesting that LCH would have a MTOW when HTSE-1200 is installed (and no rework of the LCH frame needs to be done?)

-Scrutator

buddha said...

sir really like to know the true information on PNS GHAZI ,,how it was sunk....
India developing supersonic Cruise missile LRCM(liquid fuel ramjet technology) , to deliver nuclear war head with speed of mach 3.2..is still developing or abandoned..as BrahMos missile can do the task now in its extended range...

Asmit S. said...

No.Actually I was referring to MCIWS not Ghatak. MCIWS it totally a different rifle developed by OFB Trichy.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_Caliber_Individual_Weapon_System
ANd there was a news earleier that Aridhaman's hull in under-construction at L&T shipyard in which 1 worker died.
New question:What is your analysis on current situation of Indian universities.I mean after JNU,Jadhavpur now it's DU. What is happening I can't understand that how can so many students can raise anti-India slogans?

Kaustav said...

Prasunda, It would seem logical that the three Arihant Class will eventually fill the SSGN role, given their limited vertical launch SLBM capability; albeit after the three follow-on larger SSBN class becomes available. The six SSN would of course be the submarine that the Indian Navy's pioneer submariners have always desired and shall also do escort duties for the three SSBN and three Arihant SSGN. Till then ofcourse, it shall be the INS Arihant and INS Chakra in this role of SSBN and SSN.

Anonymous said...

sir one stupid qas, I am living in punjab and there are so many air exercise by IAF day and night four mig 21 and five su 30 mki too close to ground, its natural air exercise or something gona happen in near future

Unknown said...

@ Joydeep Ghosh @ Prasoon K Gupta (11:58PM)
Joydeep Quoted
Dont you think someone must tell to NDA/RSS/Bajrang Dal/ABVP people sitting in power "Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first." - Charles de Gaulle
the above quote is inappropriate to the present time. i havent seen in the NDA or RSS government any hate mongering so far, and am sure it wont come in the future. this is because the Hindu Right wing has theological underpinnings in teachings of leaders like Vivekananda, Golwalkar, Savarkar etc. All have propagated equality of treatment to all without any minority appeasement. An article below will put more light on this: www.opindia.com/2017/02/why-the-indian-right-wing-can-never-become-the-mirror-image-of-the-left-wing/
Now what constitutes "own people", all those who talk of breaking the country, supporting terrorism, separatism etc can they be own people. Legally yes because they are citizens, but do they have the right to propagate sedition. The reactions of ABVP, RSS etc is to counter the leftist propaganda, which is how ideas and movements in societies flourish to mature them. Does it logically make sense to talk of breaking a country when no country in the world allows its institutions to be used this way! if hatred against such groups comes, it is but natural undoing of their own deeds.
VHP/Bajrang Dal are organizations created to tackle aggressive evangelism of christian missionaries/islamists which you will come across in the hinterlands of India. the amount of funding though received by VHP/Bajrang Dal is but a fraction of what the evangelists/islamists receive in India. Not surprising they are demonised beyond their stature.

Regards
Kunal Kaistha

Unknown said...

Contd...
Kindly also appreciate the inappropriateness of comparison by Prasoon K Sengupta of the following reply "AMIT: Why Indians are getting attacked there is for the very same reasons why migrants from UP, Bihar or Jharkand get attacked in Mumbai. It’s the same mindset."
The mindset in the west is different from Indian mindset. not that i am condoning attacks on UP/Bihar migrants in Maharashtra, but bringing out the fact that:
a) Biharis/Bhaiyas are not Shot Dead
b) you will never come across xenophobic videos like www.newindianexpress.com/world/2017/mar/07/stalkers-video-of-indians-in-us-fuels-hate-sentiment-1578520.html against Biharis/Bhaiyas in Maharashtra.
Indian society remains tolerant to the point that Rohingya Muslim settlement in Jammu is threatening the demography of Jammu and original hindu inhabitants are feeling threatened that Jammu may become another Kashmir (Do read https://thewire.in/106280/jammu-rohingya-muslim-myanmar-refugee/

Read now the contribution of Rohingya muslims in this article www.opindia.com/2017/03/rohingya-muslims-in-india-from-refugees-to-a-security-threat/
"Their status of being persecuted minorities in process of rehabilitation slowly started to change after reports started emerging in 2013 about some of the Rohingyas getting radicalized by the Lashkar-e-Toeba (LeT) to avenge the sectarian violence in Myanmar. The retribution though, for some strange reason, was also aimed at India, which ironically gave them the shelter. Perhaps presence of Buddhists in India was one of the reasons"
These Rohingya muslims are getting radicalized and already participate in some attacks. Ofcourse not all are radicalized, but will not it be a huge cost (security/intelligence/policing them etc) on India to keep a community that is involved in Jehad. What are we, a punching bag. And note that noone of their brotherly muslim countires are accepting them. Hence, if Nationalism through xenophobia starts coming in India, what other option do you have when this non sense/tamasha is happening. One should think (including Prasoon) why peaceful and tolerant societies like india are becoming xenophobic? what circumstances are driving them this way? what intellectuals are doing to save the original character of india?
My suggestion is please do some deeper analysis.

Old Monk said...

1. What does ZRK in the RVV-AE-ZRK stand for?

2. Will the Pralay have Lidar for target recognition and have satellite datalink?

rad said...

hi prasun
you mentioned the the ghatak rifle(sic) clone of the ak-47 will be the armys choice ,am i right . Things cannot get more shame full of cloning an AK and calling it a new name!.
Is there a powered version of the glide bomb in the making ? The the days of raiding an airfield and dropping dumb bombs is suicidal.Any jdam type cheap bomb?as we have our owngps and 3gom chip

buddha said...

I don't understand IN policy of ordering in traches of 3-4!! Instead they should go for a modular design and upgrade them progressively by ordering 8-10 ships per class!! Huge orders will bring the cost down!.....it is high time Navy and MoD should think on the matter...

Kaustav said...

INSAS continues with the Excalibur in the role of the lighter assault rifle, 5.56 x 45mm while the Ghatak Assault Rifle will fulfill the role of heavy, long range Assault Rifle 7.62 x 51 mm (a verion with 7.62 x 39 mm also exists); all featuring automatic fire mode. Both rifles feature Picatinny rails and can mount a number of sights and UBGL. The Excalibur is a much improved version of the INSAS 1B which was not at all a failure, itself being a better version of the INSAS 1A. Both the Excalibur (5.56x45mm) and the Ghatak(7.39x51mm) shall be procured in large numbers by the Indian Forces. Some Assault Rifles (less than 2 Lakhs) compared to more than a required Million Plus, might be procured to meed immediate or special needs in the short term.

AniluvG said...

Kunal- We are not interetsed in your views. We are interested in Prasunda's views. Do open a blog of your own and get your own audience.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BUDDHA: PNS Ghazi exploded underwater when one of its internally carried sea mines exploded pretty much due to the same reason the 3M-54E Club ASCM had exploded inside INS Sinshurakshak. LRCM bwas just a conceptual design. The definitive air-launched LRCM with nuclear warhead will use solid-fuel (like the French ASMP).

To ASMIT S: MCIWS is a no-brainer as I had explained several times before. It is impractical & cannot be a fully-functional weapon on the battlefield. And it’s not Ghatak, but GHAATAK. No name or pennant no has been selected for S-3 SSBN. So how come all fanciful names are being circulated around by the fanboys? Nor is the SBC an L & T shipyard. The SBC at Vizag is owned by the IN. What’s happening in the universities is nothing but restlessness & frustration building up due to the absence of adequate job-creation. On top of that, India’s Supreme Court has not yet clearly defined what SEDITION means. The definition is still ambiguous & hence the various law-enforcement authorities are at a loss to curb anything because it has not been told to them what to curb & what to permit. The Supreme Court needs to take immediate suo moto notice of this & define once & for all what SEDITION is all about.

To KAUSTAV: After the S-5/S-6/S-7 SSBNs become operationbal, the S-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 boats will all become SSGNs.

To Anon@11.27AM: It can’t be 4 MiG-21s & 5 Su-30MKIs. They always fly in pairs so if there are 4 MiG-21s, they will be accompanied by 4 Su-30MKIs as well, probably from Halwara & Adampur. Yes, something will happen, but not all-out war, rest assured.

To OLD MONK: 1) Kindly do a Google search. 2) No LIDAR but a SATCOM data-link.

To RAD: You’re judging a book by its cover. Ghaatak SLR may externally resemble an AK-47, but the internal mechanics are totally different. Read my earlier answer to LACHIT on LGBs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN/KUNAL: LoLz! I had in the past posted a few videoclips showing some RRS Shakhas in UP openly spewing hatred against a minority community & this videoclip was a documentary shown in Al Jazeera English TV channel. The same with these self-styled Yogis & Sadhus & Sadhvis who as per religious precepts should shun material life but they've chucked all these age-old values into the dust-bin! Whenever the NDA or RSS or any other outfit stays quiet & refrains from condemning such incidences, it does translate intio tacit approval of their actions. To top it all, such caricatures engaging in hate-mongering haven’t even been taken to task by the law-enforcement authorities. What does this all indicate? Swami Vivekananda NEVER spoke of or preached about any form of religious or cultural nationalism or religiosity. He dwelt only upon the philosophy of Vedanta. So how you can equate the Swami with all those RSS card-holders totally baffles me. Furthermore, these card-holders ebgage in daily violation of the Indian Constitution by referring to the Republic of India as ‘Hindustaan’ (a word originally coined by the colonial Brits & which has no legal or cultural sanction--show me one Veda or Purana using this nwoird to define a territory) when the Constitution clearly refers to the country as ‘Bhaarat’. Countering leftist/seditious propaganda can be done by devising a counter-narrative & subjecting it to intellectual compellance, & not coercive compellance (of the type practiced by VHP/Bajrang Dal/Shiv Sena/MNS etc etc) , for only this will prove whose narrative is over-riding & righteous. Nor can any one citizen in India decide what constitutes sedition for as long as the Indian Supreme Court does not provide the final definition. In every welfare state that believes in the concept of constitutionally defined nation-state, it is only the state that must have a total monopoly on the application of proportionate violence. Anyone else resorting to violence automatically becomes a non-state actor & must therefore be terminated with extreme prejudice by the state’s law-enforcement agencies.

As for the Rohingyas, several Muslim-majority countries have already been accepting them as refugees since the early 1980s. In Malaysia’s Langkawi Island, there’s an entire settlement of Rohingyas called BURMA COLONY. My suggestion to you therefore is to do some soul-searching homework & dig out the factoids, instead of sulking due to your zenophobic apprehensions that are, in any case, totally misplaced & hence your self-perception of being the perpetual punching-bag.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SCRUTATOR: LoLz! How does external cooling translate into an internal cryogenic cooler inside the missile? Here are the facts: both the Nag & HELINA use the same identical IIR seeker that is uncooled. They don’t use different seekers. Seeker sensitivity was being affected only during peak daylight hours in the deserts. Uncooled seekers are used only when the missile launch-tube cannot be a sealed cannister, but has to be opened to accept reloads. Only missiles in sealed cannisters (like MPATGM) require internally cooled seekers. The solution to me was elementary: if the seeker canlt be cooled internally, then it must be cooled externally. Based on this, way back in 2011 I came up with a conceptual design solution aimed at cooling the launch tubes that hold the ATGMs. It took me less than 3 months to do the detailed design & pass it on to the concerned DRDO labs & it involved 2 nett additions: 1) re-engineering the metallic launcher (which can accept reloads) to accommodate an internal heat-insulating liner made up of the very same composites-based material that is used as the insulating heat-shield for a re-entry warhead; & 2) interfacing the ATGM launch tubes with the environmental control system of the NAMICA & helicopter under which a steady but minimal amount of cooled air from the helicopter’s & NAMICA’s air-conditioners will be channelled into the launch-tubes whenever the helicopter/NAMICA is on the move. During field-trials this modification worked superbly for the Nag & in fact extended this missile’s range to 6.3km that in turn necessitated the need for a separate panoramic sight for rapid target engagements! For the HELINA, a suitably modified Rudra & the related Rudrastra ATGM launch-tube (fitted with the same composites-based heat-insulating material) were subjected to field trials last June & this saw the HELINA going out to 7.4km in fully-guided mode. Needless to say, an enormous successful & highly satifsfying effort on my part. It also proves that in the end, the simplest, common-sensical fix is always the optimal solution.

As for identical engines powering the Dhruv ALH & the LCH, what’s the max service ceiling of the two helicopters? Are they the same at the moment? Find out the answer & you will realise what I’m hinting at.

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,
Thanks for the Excellent pieces of journalism about Balochistan.The sectarian-extrimism policy is the weapon they applied in GB also.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANILUV G: Never mind, for everyone can express their views/opinions here PROVIDED their assertions are willing to stand up to scrutiny & accountability. That's what intellectual compellance is all about, unlike all the goondagardi being resorted to nowadays by ill-informned folks running around like headless chicken & ending up as anarchists.

Old Monk said...

Hello again,

1. Coudnt find what ZRK stands for. Please do if you can.

You said "The Izdelie 810 VLRAAM will be an updated iteration of the RVV-AE-ZRK LRAAM"

I am not much a fan of labels, specially not of the Russian ones, but isnt the Izdelie 810, a R-37 derivative and the Izdelie-180(K-100) the R-77/RVV-AE derivative? Will the Izdelie 180 have an AESA seeker and will it go on the FGFA?

2. Any possibility that the IAFs Rafales be used to launch nanosats?

3. As per you, which of the two can the IAF do without? The FGFA or the AMCA?

Kaustav said...

Prasunda, kudos and heartfelt thanks for your work on the NAG and HELINA. Somehow, I think the hierarchial and beareaucratic lot at DRDO might not have got around to it or opted for a solution involving foreign purchases and/or foreign consultants.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To OLD MONK: It stands for модификации РВВ-АЕ для задач ПВО/Modifications of RVB-AE for air defence tasks. No WVRAAMs or BVRAAMs or LRAAMs using existing control-fins like that on the R-77/RVV-AE or RVV-AE-PD will fit into the internal weapons bays of the FGFA. Instead, manoeuvrability will have to be achieved through more efficient thrust-vector-control nozzles. That's where the RVV-AE-ZRK comes in. The Aussies have mistakenly dubbed this LRAAM as a SAM. Why should any MRCA launch nano-sats? Furthermore, can an MRCA attain stratospheric heights? What is then the RLV-TD programme all about? Between the FGFA & AMCA, the former is far closer to reality & it today requires only its definitive turbofan. Only if there is an international OEM like Dassault Systems oir BAE Systems or Mitsubishi involved as a risk-sharing developmental partner can the AMCA evolve as a viable platform. India can never develop the AMCA on her own. It's an impossible tasking from a financial standpoint.

Anonymous said...

Hi,


Congratulations, if your suggested design was accepted onto Dhruvastra/Rudrastra.

From the lecture by the Helina Project Director, I concluded that there would be an external (and replaceable after every sortie) coolant bottle on the launcher that injects coolant into the missile (via the port that I've seen being present on Helina but not on earlier Nag).

Didn't follow your question comparing the LCH's and Dhruv's altitude ceiling. If LCH body weight is lighter and is able to fly higher (or take on more payload), the MTOW for a given set of engines (both carry 2XArdiden 1H1) should be still be quite similar, right?. Could you help clarify how LCH is a 7.5 tonne helicopter?

-Scrutator

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

1) If the MIRVed Agni-5 will be tested by late 2018, would the current single warhead version begin deployment earlier ?

2) If the definitive SLBM would first be tested by 2024 (7 years from now), would it not be 2030 or so by the time it is deployed ?

3) The DRDO chief Dr. S. Christopher said a couple of years ago that the rate of production of Agni series missiles was only 20% of what the SFC required. Has there been an improvement on that front in the last two years ?

Satyaki


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SCRUTATOR: VMT. There can (LoLz!) NEVER be any port for pouring any form of coolant from an external source into any missile. Having such a mechanism is a total violation of the laws of physics. The only port on any missile is the umbilical cord for electric power supply reqd for both activating the on-board target acquisition sensor & for rocket booster. Are you saying that the LCH is lighter than the ALH? The former weighs 7.5 tonnes & the latter 5.5 tonnes.

To KAUSTAV: VMT. To me it was just a matter of applying common-sense & logic based on the laws of physics.

To SATYAKI: 1) Not at all. All Agni-5s that will become operational will have MIRVs. 2) It should enter service by 2027. 3) Yes. Multiple manufacturers have been roped in for undertaking parallel production, not just for strategic weapons, but also for missiles like ATGMs & SAMs.

Anonymous said...

Most cooled IR seeker based missiles use some kind of external cooling.
Javelin missile launcher has a Dewar cooling flask on the launcher that cools the IR seeker inside the missile during the target acquisition phase. Once the missile is launched the external connection to the coolant is severed and an internal coolant bottle (much smaller one) is activated.

Similar mechanism is used for US Navy's Sidewinder missile that has a Nitrogen bottle on its launcher.

Several companies manufacture these coolant bottles for missiles including Cobham (from which India procures several components for Tejas); there was some chatter on DRDO producing an indigenous version of these coolant bottles too.

I thought Helina was working on similar principle - no violation of any laws of physics (just plain old Joule Thomson laws put to effective use).

The only issue I see with the 'air conditioning' provided to Helina (in its current design as proposed by you, other than how effectively the air conditioning will cool the seeker) is that once the missile leaves the tube the seeker is exposed to the outside heat and could lose the target lock (if the seeker remains uncooled that is - without an internal coolant bottle).

So, a fully loaded LCH weighs 7.5 tonnes and a fully loaded ALH weighs 5.5 tonnes? I am still trying wrap my head around this, as both have the same set of engines. I thought LCH was based on ALH chasis, with changes only to the airframe. Am I missing something?

-Scrutator

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SCRUTATOR: LoLz! The cooling flask you’re referring to is not meant to cool the Javelin missile’s seeker, but rather the target acquisition seeker on the re-usable manportable launcher itself, i.e. the same principle used by re-usable shoulder-launched MANPADS launchers. Once electrical power is supplied & the missile is activated, the internal cooler of the Javelin takes over under the lock-on-before-launch mode & it takes about 40 seconds to fully function. On AAMs the coolant is embedded inside the missile itself & no coolant pours in from any outside source. Once any cannister-encased missile like an ATGM leaves its tube, the flight-time is no more than 20 seconds—hardly any time therefore for the seeker to be degraded even at 55 degrees Celsius outside temperature. The launch-tubes of both Nag & HELINA aren’t hermetically sealed since they are meant to be re-usable & that’s why moderately cooled air has to be supplied inside the launch-tubes from an external source NOT just for the purpose of keeping the nose-section cool, but for the entire missile-body so that lock-on-before-launch can be achieved.

LCH was never based on ALH’s chassis. LCH is an all-new design & possesses far more ballistics tolerance than the ALH does & this makes the LCH heavier. Only the powerpack, main/tail rotor heads are identical.

To SUVO: Just-released Punjab CTD Report Exposes ISIS in Pakistan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R7Zi6d-5p8

buddha said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAlS7-t96KE...your comment plz

Anonymous said...

US Navy Sidewinder missile:
(From: NAVY TRAINING SYSTEM PLAN. AIM9M, SIDEWINDER MISSILE SYSTEM)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/ntsp/aim-9m-a_2002.pdf

"...An umbilical cable assembly provides the electrical interface between the missile GCS (Guidance Control Section) and the aircraft launcher. The umbilical cable also allows the flow of coolant from the LAU-7 (launcher) to the missile GCS..."

Javelin Missile:
(From: Center for Technology and National Security Policy, National Defense University)
www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA454087

"...In order for the seeker to function optimally, the FPA must be cooled and calibrated. The CLU’s IR detectors are cooled using a Dewar flask and a closed-cycle Stirling engine.
There is not sufficient space in the missile for this approach. Prior to launch, a BCU
mounted on the outside of the launch tube activates the electrical systems in the missile
and supplies cold gas from a Joule-Thompson (J–T) expander to the missile detector
assembly while the missile is still in the launch tube...."


LCH maybe heavier in its empty configuration, but the MTOW of LCH and ALH cannot be vastly different given that their powerpacks are the same, right? I am still scratching my head.

(My last post on the above subjects)

-Scrutator

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SCRUTATOR: That practice was discontinued from the AIM-9S Sidewinder onwards. As for the Javelin, the CLU is the re-usable launcher. And as I said before, the MPATGM like the Javelin follows the same design principle as both are in hermetically sealed cannisters. ATGMs like Nag or HELINA that have to be manually loaded into their re-usable launch-tubes & therefore cannot operate in the same way as Javelin or MPATGM. Hence, apples cannot be compared with oranges. As for MTOW figures & attainable MTOW for max altitude ceilings of LCH & ALH, do consult the brochures of both that I had uploaded years ago in this blog for comparison. It’s no use engaging in speculative ‘maybes’ or scratching one’s head in vain when OEM-furnished figures are available. The OEM’s data will reveal that the LCH was never meant to attain heights of 21,000 feet ASL, while the ALH was & hence the ALH’s higher power-to-weight ratio. Even the 16,500 feet is attainable by the LCH only when it’s armed ONLY with Mistral ATAMs & the chin-mounted 20mm cannon, & nothing else.

To BUDDHA: LoLz! The F/A-22’s design was frozen in 1992 for the commencement of series-production, meaning only Intel Pentium-2 processors could be used then. The time has now come for the F/A-22’s mid-life upgrade. Furthernore, US-based OEMs are already well into developing 6th-generation MRCAs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

New heights being attained & new records being broken by Pakistan:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1318333/khanani-group-launders-billions-of-dollars-us-report

https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl0265.aspx

https://thewire.in/114225/us-drops-dawoods-name-latest-narcotics-control-report/

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

1) Then why was the Agni 5 test last December stated to be a final development trial ? Was this media generated ?

2) In a recent interview, the DRDO chief says "we expect to have the required numbers in a year or two" in response to a qn on when the A-5 joins the forces. Wo'nt it take longer than that if only MIRVed version is to be deployed ?

Satyaki

Old Monk said...

1. You said "the definitive air-launched LRCM with nuclear warhead will use solid-fuel (like the French ASMP)."

But the ASMP uses liquid-fuel ramjet as should the LRCM.

2. Dassault's airborne microlauncher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpiR0SqdUPM

Old Monk said...

To Rat,
I think EMP warheads also have great potential in Naval warfightng doctrine. The IN might need to explore arming EMP warheads on ASM/ASCMs to damage or upset the most susceptible segments of enemy warships/fleet first, the high-technology communication, sensor, radars and navigation systems, shipborne helis etc and then follow up with some fireworks. Disable the platforms before decimating it. I hope its not out of the Xbox for Prasunda.

joydeep ghosh said...

@prasun da

1. thanks for giving a beffiting reply to the chap called #KUNAL who unfortunately has closed his mind, eye,ears. You should have reposted the links to his answer that you referred to, for his delayed enlightenment.

2. real thanks and 3 cheers to you for your idea being accepted and applied with regards to HELINA/NAG but one question cant the same idea be applied to Pinaka/guided Pinaka/Akash1-2 and other similar systems to boost their lethality

3. GSL is set to build 2 frigates of Talwar class or Admiral Grigoriwich thats based on Talwar class, (why 2 when you have said to recover cost atleast 3 must be made)

4. whats happening on Arjun tank front suddenly everything is silent

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Pinkal Shah said...

Dear Prasun

https://www.ufoofinterest.org/2017/01/10/quale-spiegazione-per-l-ufo-filmato-da-un-elicottero-della-marina-militare-cilena/

Your comments plz

Regards,
Pinkal Shah

Unknown said...

@ Prasoon K Sengupta 08:10 PM

Regarding the video clips I had gone through them earlier and also have come across other video clips regarding this rabble rousing. But I also observe that these so called yogis like yogi Adityanath who were spewing venom in 2014, were commanded to keep their mouths shut failing which disciplinary action would have been initiated against them. Results are for people to see. Same was applied on Varun Gandhi, another rabble rouser, who in the UP elections has been silently side-lined. Had RSS and its affiliates subscribed to rabble rousing as a theology, none of the above creatures (and their likes) would have been side-lined. Now you may rightfully have another opinion about a more rigorous way of side-lining them, but thats subjective depending on who the boss is. So I doubt whether there is any tacit approval at present. I am sure it is neither prudent nor logical to paint all with the same brush and generalise when the larger picture points otherwise. If there are few rabble rousers, there are many others more calm and mature in their disposition. Now of course you or me may agree to disagree with their point of view, which obviously is subjective and would naturally be there.
As rightly pointed out by you, Swami Vivekananda dwelled upon philosophy of Vedanta, which in essence is about finding god in oneself as the Atma is part of the Paramatma. This implies that all humans are the same because they all have atman in them (which is part of same Paramatma) and that differences are what we humans have built for ourselves. A corollary to that is “Sabka Saath, Sabka Vikas”. Further, Swami Vivekanda’s dwelling on Vedanta were not merely for the sake of its study, but had an objective of using it to culturally revive a demoralised civilization which once upon a time authored the Vedas. So there was definitely a political objective behind his works and hence he travelled the world. In fact I read that Netaji Subhash Bose considered his works as strong inspiration in his freedom struggle. No wonder why he carried both Hindus and Muslims together in INA and coined the work “Jai Hind” and not “Jai Bharat”. This may put light on the use of word Hindustan by the RSS card holders. Merely because the constitution refers Bharat does not imply one is debarred from using the word “Hindustan”. I agree that this word has no reference in veda or purana, but how does that matter when the essence of Veda are being captured, strictly from a governance (and policy) point of view, by treating Indian citizens equally. Of-course the spiritual message in the Vedanta also needs to be followed, but that’s a separate discussion all together.

Regards

Kunal Kaistha

The Engdoc Society said...

Dada
Nice articles and really valuable insights and information.
Would u be kind enough to enlighten us on following pls:

1. How does indian Artillery and MRLS stands as against to what Pakistani and Chinese Have in their Armory.
2 Nos of Tracked, Wheeled, MGS and MRLS systems in service with these 3 nations.
3. How well Artillery play it's part in today's war scinerio given the fact cruise missiles are also in service with the nation.
4. Lastly ur expert views on Defence Budgets of 3 Nations. How realistic is the fact that inflated spending may be there wrt what has been declared.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SATYAKI: 1) Of course it was media-generated. 2) There’s a huge gap between the term ‘expect’ and ‘already operational’. Whay he meant was that he was awaiting the GoI’s approval, which won’t come until the MIRVs are tested & validated not just for the Agni-5, but for the SLBM as well.

To OLD MONK: The ASMP uses BOTH: na solid-propellant booster & liquid-fuelled ramjets. The LRCM has adoptred a similar design concept.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: VMT. 3) Not GSL, But Reliance Defence. 4) You will get to read about it tonight.

To KUNAL/UNKNOWN: None of the world’s religious texts deal with policy-matters of a state or civic administration. They were never meant to. Instead, they all serve as universal guidelines for ethical/moral codes of conduct. As such, Hinduism/Hindutva should be interpreted as a way of life without any religious undertones. That’s how most of us will look at it, barring those who seek to exploit it for malicious motives by introducing the element of religiosity (as the self-styled Yogis & Sadhvis have done) & they have always done this only for the sake of garnering economic & political power. This always inevitably takes the form of cultural nationalism that can never be implemented in any present-day nation-state, but only in the civilization states of yesteryears. It’s like mixing petrol with diesel & is therefore a destructive & discredited practice. For instance, just try to convince the southern Indians that Rama was the hero while Ravana was the villian & you will see the result for yourself. Therefore, in any culturally heterogeneous society there’s no room for any form of cultural nationalism of the type being propagated by the likes of VHP/RSS etc etc. In the era of nation-states, the Constitution of the land is the only document that serves as the ultimate guarantor of one’s rights, privileges, responsibilities & obligations.

To THE ENGDOC SOCIETY: 1 & 2) All these had been extensively discussed in previous threads. 3) They all have distinct roles to play & therefore one cannot be a replacement for another. 4) Different countries have different types of accounting practices. What matters far more is the pace & spectrum of armed forces modernisation efforts.

buddha said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqSu-xNgBUw....the problem you mentioned regarding the engine of PakFA

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-navy-warships-defence-ministry-sanctions-proposals/1/898400.html

rad said...

hi prasun

poeir jets seems to be making small turbine engines, is it local or they have tot from some where.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: Here's the range:

• MJE 20 is an indigenously designed & manufactured Jet engine with a thrust of 20 Kgf which will be used for an UAV and R/C model aircrafts.
• MJE 40 Jet engine produces a thrust of 40 Kgf, which can also be used for UAV and R/C model aircraft & has been indigenously designed, manufactured and is planned to be tested by March 2017.
• 100 kgf Jet engine produces a thrust of 40 Kgf, which can also be used for UAV and R/C model aircraft & has been indigenously designed, under manufacture and is planned to be tested by March 2017.
• 130 kgf thrust jet engine for small manned and UAV applications is currently under design.
• A Jet engine SJE-350 with a thrust of 350 Kgf (re-engineered 37-01E turbofan of NPO Saturn) is designed which can be used for strategic application (i.e. Nirbhay family of LACMs) and is currently under manufacturing.
• Turbo Shaft Power engines with a power output of 180 to 250 kW for Small unmanned and manned Helicopters are under design.

After a collaboration with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and Bharat Forge, the company decided to develop its own engines. The SJE-350 is the one for Nirbhay LACM family & it is a re-engineered 37-01E turbofan. “It is for this reason that we will be ready for certification in 24 months. But the success we’ve seen has pushed us to develop bigger engines. We have the MJE-40 and MJE-100, which will be able to power bigger UAVs. Given that they are gas turbine engines, they will give longer flying hours”.

buddha said...

It is good to the private public cooperation in engine sector
What may be the possible time frame of LRCM...that I said earlier ..
Exactly I can't recall....you once said there is a missile in developing for anti ship role which may follow ballistic path and in last stage it will step dive ....may be off 1200km range ..sry if I said any thing foolish sir...
My request to you if you get some time in your busy schedule. Upload e report of alien existence.. genetical engineering of human formation and our epics how it is related to alien ...yo said and given reference s in comments...but if it is under one report it will be easy for us to show others..
Anticipating your kind perusal

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

THAAD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQXCHWo1-yM

THAAD-ER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3SMs_IR1vc

MIM-104 Patriot PAC-3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9C2iLm764

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

1) Are you then saying that around 2018, first tests of MIRVed payloads on Agni V will take place. Tests of MIRVs would be complete by 2020-21, followed by GoI approval for deploying the system. Correct ?

2) Or would A-5 deployment happen only around 2027 along with the SLBM ?

3) In the mean time, there is a vulnerability against the Pak/China combination, unless the Agni -4 's are rapidly produced in large numbers. Hope such rapid production is on.

4) Would Pak deploy MIRVs (ababeel, etc) before we deploy MIRVed Agni 5's ?

5) Any chance that a non-BJP dispensation (Rahul Gandhi led cong, etc) undermine this course by refraining from MIRVs and adopting `strategic restraint' ?

Satyaki

Srinivasa Nanduri said...

Hi Prasun,

Sorry for harping on China matters again. But it seems your replies are much more clear and understanding than so many of these articles that are being published on daily basis.

Coming to the question, did China play a masterstroke by proposing brics plus summit. With this it can bring in its allies including Pakistan into this exclusive forum, reduce importance of other 4, especially India and make it more China centric like SCO?

Also, what can India do to change this narrative presented that, if India does not join OBOR, it will be at a huge loss. How successful can OBOR / CPEC be without Indian participation?

Will we ever get g&b? Seems China is hell bent on making a viable counter to India. What is India doing to not be bracketed back with Pakistan?

Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SATYAKI: 1) Yes, by 2021-2022. 2) No. 3) LoLz! There are enough Agni-4s & Agni-1s available for both fronts. 4) No. 5) No.

To SRINIVASA NANDURI: VMT. Pakistan cannot be brought in unless India also agrees to let participate in any BRICS+ Summit. India can always create its own maritime silk roads with both the GCC member-states, & also with the Central Asian Republics via Iran, as I had already explained earlier. OBOR & CPEC are symbiotic visions & will never be mutually beneficial. Rather, they will benefit only China’s economy & will reduce all others into vassal-like states, like Laos & Cambodia are today & Pakistan will very very soon end up as. No one can change the UN-recognised & UNSC-sanctioned resolution on J & K which explicitly states that PoK is an integral part of India. Have already explained why is this so several times before.