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Wednesday, July 19, 2017

DRDO-Owned & Navy-Operated MRIS Vessels Take Shape, As Does The S-3 SSBN

The first of two DRDO-owned and Indian Navy-operated Missile-Range Instrumentation Ships (MRIS) is presently undergoing outfitting alongside the 560-metre jetty of the MoD-owned Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam. Officially dubbed as an Ocean Surveillance Ship (P-11184), its keel-laying ceremony had taken place on June 30, 2014. Sanctioned at a cost of Rs.1,500 crore, this MRIS is expected to be commissioned into naval service by the first quarter of 2018 (instead of the original deadline of December 2015). 
This vessel was designed by Vik Sandvik Design India, and it has a length of 175 metres, beamwidth of of 22 metres, a draught of 6 metres, and a total weight of 10,000 tons. An aft helicopter deck capable of housing a 12-tonne NMRH-type helicopter has also been incorporated. Crew complement will be 300, while the propulsion package will comprise twin two 9,000kW diesel engines, designed to give a maximum cruise speed of 21 Knots.
The MRIS, when operational, will host two types of tracking radars: a long-range L-band active phased-array tracking radar for monitoring the flight trajectory of ballistic missiles like ICBMs and SLBMs, and an X-band precision tracking radar, this too being an active phased-array type that will be used for tracking the in-bound flight trajectories of MIRV-type warheads. The long-range L-band active phased-array tracking radar will be a derivative of the indigenously designed and developed L-band, monopulse Multi-Object Tracking Radar (MOTR) that is now operational at ISRO’s Sriharikota-based Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SHAR). 
The MOTR, developed at a cost of Rs.245 crores between 2012 and 2015, can track 10 different objects simultaneously with a range of nearly 1,000km. While objects measuring up to 30cm by 30cm can be tracked at a distance of 800km, in case of objects measuring 50cm by 50cm size, the radar can track at a slant range of 1,000km. The active phased-array antenna contains 4,608 radiating elements, and the entire radar weighs 35 tonnes, is 12-metre-long and 8 metres-tallAstra Microwave Products Ltd supplied the T/R Modules and DC-DC converters.
The second MRIS is being built at a cost of Rs.425 crores by the Kochi-based Cochin Shipyard Ltd and is expected to be delivered by late 2019. Contract for this vessel was inked in early August 2015. Once ready, this 130-metre-long MRIS will be equipped with a smaller version of the MOTR, known as the M-MOTR, as well as X-band active phased-array precision-tracking radar. This MRIS will be used for monitoring the flight trajectories of long-range subsonic and supersonic land-attack cruise missiles, especially during their terminal phases of flight.  
The two MRIS vessels will perform roles similar to those of the USNS Howard O Lorenzen (T-AGM-25), which features dual-band X- and S-band active phased-array radars, a common radar suite controller, and other ancillary equipment. The X-band radar is used for collecting data from several objects from different targets, while the S-band radar is used for collecting data from specific objects of importance. Raytheon provided the X-band radar and the common radar suite controller, while the S-band radar was provided by Northrop Grumman.
Meanwhile, the Indian Navy is gearing up for the launch of its second homegrown SSBN, the S-3, at the Vizag-based and Navy-owned Shipbuilding Centre (SBC), which has been leased to Larsen & Toubro for fabricating these SSBNs there. The Navy has already procured an Anti-Diver Net that will be deployed around the S-3 after its launch (before the year-end) so that it can be safely berthed alongside the SBC when undergoing final fitting-out and the subsequent harbour-trials.

92 comments:

AVIRAL said...

Prasun da
1)Isn't the detection range of thins new ship under construction too low for detection of ballistic missiles.
2)Pakistan rarely declares its casualties on LoC.But on our side we have lost some 5 of our soldiers in just 5 days.What should be our possible response.

3)Interesting details on 4Pak soldiers killed in few days back.It was the work of our Para SF : http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/spl-forces-target-pak-troops-kill-5/

Bobby said...

to prasun

is this ships also a intelligence gathering ship.

is HSL is used for building nuclear subs solely ?? why frigates or destoryers not built here.

i guess there may be more than single nuke sub operational by now.

Anik said...

Some journos on twitter are saying that China has begun acclamatisation of their soldiers & are strengthening their tibet military command. The way chinese media has carried out verbal escalation it is highly unlikely that they will de escalate as it will be a face loss for them. What do you think prasun da??

Aviral said...

Prasun da,
The report says the project "took place late last month" and "involved hardware being moved simultaneously by road and rail from across the entire region". http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/china-india-sikkim-border-standoff-doklam-pla-beijing-tibet/1/1005448.html

It is well know that we are at strong position in Sikkim & some areas of Ladakh and during war we can easily capture some chinese territory in this region. But what about Uttrakhand, Himachal pradesh & Arunachal Pradesh. What will be our order of battle in these areas.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AVIRAL: 1) The MRIS vessel built by HSL IS NOT for early detection of hostile inbound ballistic missiles. They are meant for plotting the flight trajectory of Indian ICBMs & SLBMs whenever they are test-fired & also for plotting the trajectories of the inbound MIRV warheads. I repeat, such vessels are not BMEWS. 2) Our response is what has been going on since March this year, i.e. punitive fire-assaults along both the WB in Jammu & the LoC along the Kashmir Valley. This way the entire Muzzafarabad-Kel Highway will once again be forced to shut down--an option that Pakistan can;t afford to endure since this will cause enormous resentment among the native inhabitants of PoK & they in turn will unleash their wrath against the PA formations deployed there.

The PLA movements are in the Qinghai Plateau area & are routine in nature that are meant for sustaining the forces deployed against the CARs. All logistics support meant for units deployed along the LAC come from Sichuan & Yunnan provinces, & not from the Qinghai Plateau. Only armchair analysts like Srikanth Kondapillai (like that buffoon Bharat Karnad) spew out disinformation about the PLA's ability to deploy 28 Divisions against India along the LAC. If only they had read the Battle Studies published by the NDC about the 1962 war would they have realised the exact quantum of the troop strength the PLA had azctually used against India in 1962!!! All the propaganda about PLA human-wave tactics used in 1962 come mostly from Bollywood flicks & are far from being factual.

To BOBBY: 1) The MRIS vessels are NOT for intelliogence gathering at all since their on-board sensors are all RF-emitting. Intelligence-gathering vessels NEVER emit anything, as they have only all-passive listening sensors to soak in the RF emissions of interest. 2) Of course two nuclear-powered submarines are operational with the IN: S-2/INS Arihant & INS Chakra. S-3 SSBN will be launched in the last quarter of this year.

To ANIK: LoLz! If only people knew how tough a job acclimatisation process is! If it was that easy, why does the PLA till today maintain only 3 warfighting brigades in the entire Tibet Military District. The native Tibetans took hundreds of years to adjust their biorythmn & their DNA genetic re-engineering was made adaptable over the past hundreds of years. So for internet fanboys to speculate about PLA troops acclimatisation meant for warfighting is a physical impossibility & can never be achieved in either 90 days, or 6 months or even 2 years, rest assured. And I'm not even talking anything about the enormous amount of time reqd for familiarisation of the terrain where the likely tactical battles wsould be fought. Hence, if you can, kindly 'educate' these internet fanboys/'desi' journalists about the prevailing ground realities. In fact, they ought to start by consulting any ordinary medical practisioner about the challenges of high-altitude acclimatisation--not for the sake of visiting tourists going to Ladakh or Lahaul Spiti--but for enduring for months at end & being warfighting-fit.

shukant chatrath said...

Sir you mentioned the source of the L band radar as the indigenous MOTR, but what about the X band radar. Indigenous or imported????

Pierre Zorin said...

That senile idiot is fretting the old Churchill's lost colonialism - at the age of 90 why doesn't he give his brain a rest and plan a smooth passage in some dementia home? Obviously he has forgotten his authoritative analysis about India can't sustain democracy! I am talking about Neville Maxwell of course. I was so tempted to go to his blog and suggest this one to one but thought who cares-let the old bag clean his own messed up pants for a change.

Ashwin said...

Dear Sir

What can we do to INFLICT more casualties on Pakistan

In the last Few days we have lost Five soldiers

This decision NOT to use 155 MM is not giving any desired results

Please write about how can we dissuade the Pakis from
Ceasefire Violation and Sniping attacks

July 18, 2017 at 10:33 PM

AMIT BISWAS said...

" If only they had read the Battle Studies published by the NDC about the 1962 war would they have realised the exact quantum of the troop strength the PLA had azctually used against India in 1962!!! "

Would love to lay my hands on it....where and how to get this report???

BTW what stops IA to venture into PoK and carry out medium scale strikes employing shock and awe tactics against PA positions to give them a fitting reply....seriously it isn't a good to hear every day of tit for tat actions going on ....and we are losing soldiers on border....its another case PA isnt admitting its losses...but everyday news of IA losing its soldiers along LoC shows a perception of incapability on its part.....

coming to PLA mobilising itself in qinghai plateau.....
would like to know how many squadorns/divisions PLAAF could employ in tibetan plateau opposite ARUNACHAL/SIKKIM and LADAKH regions in case war erupts and how which bases will be activated????
what could be IAF pattern of deployment to counter such aggressive deployment by PLAAF ???? how would IAF provide CAS to IA along dense jungle mountains in arunachal ???

In your last post you said walong/barhoti is an area where ALGs are vulnerable to PLA SF actions???
I had read in Lt Gen H S Panags article, in 1962 war how our army was outnumbered in walong assault by PLA on both the axis of lohit river.....??

what counter effective strategies are being adopted by IA now to avoid/counter any such assaults against ALGs in forward areas??

and suppose in case real war erupts between india china now ...what are the vulnerable areas where PLA could open front against us?????

and what are the vulnerable spots along LAC where our IA could open front against PLA to give them a deadly punch????

Pierre Zorin said...

MAKS - Mi 171Sh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jANXiQ-6QEc
MiG 35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whGKe-k0yI0

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Prasun,

Have the French made any offer of selling used Mirage 2000's to IAF?

AMIT BISWAS said...

" http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/come-up-with-better-arrangement-for-peace-us-tells-india-china/article19308981.ece "

BTW since when Uncle sam is worried about peace ???? why is it poking finger between INDIA - CHINA BHAI BHAI issue in dokalam??

AMIT BISWAS said...

Lolz even russies are poking at chinos it seems

" http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/why-is-russia-aiming-missiles-at-china/ "

AMIT BISWAS said...

" http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/a-chinese-spy-ship-may-have-observed-a-thaad-intercept-test-but-thats-just-fine/ "
Now comes the type 815 AGI ship of PLAN northern fleet entering alaskan coast sniffing out THAAD battery (AN/TPY-2) radar.....

lolz these chinese are spooked it seems, everywhere they are sending AGI ships....bay of bengal/alaskan coast....too much to handle

Zaphon said...

An unrelated question if I may: what MAWS are fitted to the Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG and MiG-21Bison? Thanks.

Black box said...

Hi prasun,came across a video where a army rep was testing ofb's 7.62*51 assault rifle .How long will the test go on before the rifle is inducted.is the army satisfied with it or will they go for some foreign origin ?

AVIRAL said...

Indian agencies rubbish Chinese media claims, say no unusual movements made by the Chinese along the LAC.
https://mobile.twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/887699476634271746

bhoutik said...

are the Battle Studies published by the NDC about the 1962 war available in the open domain?

could the follow-on class to the vishakhapatnam class destroyers carry an integrated mast containing smaller versions of the L & X band APARs mentioned here?

Rajesh Mishra said...

The Chinese media is playing too much war games on us because they know that we have still not decided our primary assault rifle.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PAWAN: Watch this interesting talk-show on Gilgit-Baltistan that reveals the level of underdevelopment there, as well as the critical mistakes made by the Pakistanis when negotiating the ceasefire agreement in 1948:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29DI90RmbW0

To SHUKANTH CHATRATH: Both radar-types are indigenous products.

To ASHWIN: Had already explained that to AVIRAL above. Here’s the video released yesterday by Pakistan’s ISPR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBELDc8l8aU

PA COAS visits HIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtAc3yveruY

To AMIT BISWAS & BHOUTIK: A slight correction: the battle studies are all published under the NDC’s patronage by the United Services Institution & they are available for sale at both the USI as well as at prominent bookshops in Delhi’s Khan Market area.

To AMIT BISWAS: Wars don’t begin due to emotional provocations. Instead, the battles get underway ONLY AFTER the war has already been won. So one will have to wait a while longer till 2018 for the decisive phase of the AirLand campaigns. The PLA at best will be able to mobilise less than 3 Motorised Divisions all along the LAC, along with 3 squadrons of PLAAF combat aircraft like the Su-27SK/J-11 & the J-10A deployed in detachments in Lhasa Gonggar, Shigatse, Ngari & Linzhi. From TAR, the PLAAF cannot mount any aggressive/offensive air-strikes & all air assets will be used only for defensive counter-air missions. In dense jungles over mountainous terrain, the best fire-assaults are always conducted by field artillery & helicopter gunships. Back in 1962 there were neither enough airspace surveil;lance radars, not AAA assets. The situation today is totally different. The PLA will never launch any kinetic operations along the LAC because if it does, it will get decimated as the IA is deployed in higher altitudes while the PLA is at lower altitudes.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ZAPHON: The only members of the operational Su-27 family equipped with MAWS suite are the Su-30MKM & the Su-35. Only the MiG-35 has MAWS sensors & no other version of the MiG-29 has them. In India, MAWS are fitted on the upgraded Mirage 2000N (MBDA’s DDM-NG) & the Rudra helicopters. In future, the Super Su-30MKI, LCH & LUH will have such fitments as well.

To BLACK BOX: Once the full-scale user-trials begin, they last for up to 3 years. Such trials have not even commenced as yet.

To BHOUTIK: The future belongs only to integrated masts housing either dual-band (S & X) or triple-band (L.S & X) radars. Even Russia showcased such masts at the IMDS-2017 expo in St Petersburg last month. I will upload some of their photographs in the very near future. But do check out the visuals I’ve uploaded above WRT the S-3 SSBN.

To RAJESH MISHRA: They’re doing this purely for domestic consumption. In reality, the average PLA infantryman is highly fearful of the IA’s Sikh soldiers & regard the latter as being BARBARIC due to their past exploits under Francis Younghusband & Gen Zorawar Singh & even later the British-led expeditionary forces thjat employed the Sokhs & Gurkhas during the Opium Wars. It is for this reason that everytiome the IA sends a contingent to China for the EX Hand-in-Hand series of bilateral exercises with the PLA, the IA’s contingent is always drawn from the Sikh Regiment. In addition, among the Han Chinese there are no martial races specializing in mountain warfare, whereas in the IA, there are the Dogras, Kumaonis. Ladhakis, Nagas, Sikhs & Nepali Gurkhas with proven track-records in high-altitude mountain warfare. Psychologically, this puts the PLA at a great disadvantage from a psychological warfare standpoint.

Zaphon said...

Thanks for the answer. Does that mean that the MiG-29 UPG, Su-30MKI and MiG-21Bison are dead meat in air-to-air combat? I don't get that impression.

On an unrelated point, what is the status of the INS Arihant? It was reported that the K-15 was tested from it on 25 November 2015 and the K-4 tested from it on 31st March 2016 after a pontoon test of the K-4 on 7th March 2016. Does that mean that part of the SLBM deterrent is nearing operational status.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

This is the kingpin of the JMB that was responsible for the Burdhwan bomb-blasts:

Sohel Mahfuz Nasirullah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oNDr9JJioM

Kaustav said...

Prasun da

A rubber stamped depiction for the two Arihant Class subs! Is it for procurement tenders for nets or other material?

Gd said...

Hi Prasoon,
Interesting read
https://www.dawn.com/news/1346388/saudi-led-alliance
Your thoughts pls.

rad said...

hi prasun
you mentioned the aesa radars on board the rocket tracking ship are indigenious. In that case will it not be easy for us to develop an system like the mfstar aesa radar for future war ships?

the latest chinese destroyer has L,S, and x band aesa radars, what are the functions of each radar?.

any idea about the long range anti ship missile that has a supersonic final stage like the klub missile ?

why cant we take out the likes of sayed salaludin,massod azhar with a brahmos precision missile strike? collateral or not! after all these buggers keep holding meetings in known places?
what is the reason for the pla troop downsizing?

why cant we have a base in djibouti like the chinks, as a counter, after all money is not a big deal.? we can have direct flights from india . The others would appreciate it ie,

rad said...

hi prasun
i assume that hereafter India has the full capability
to build AESA air defense radars after all we have built such massive radars in all bands.is there a hitch to that ??
the obvious thing to do is replace all planar radars of the akash system with aesa radars?
i am confused about the number of objects tracked by the MOTR , it being an aesa radar ,surely it can track hundreds of targets simultaneously like the elm 2084 etc?pse comment ?

surely then,we can go in for AESA uhf and vhf radars for anti stealth ops. good thing is the high power transistors for vhf and uhf bands are commercially available in around 500 $ apiece.Any movement on that.
i have heard some one has made an vhf weather radar in india ??




Black box said...

Hi prasun,
Regarding ssbn Arihant class how many subs of this class will be built.When will the indigenous SSN construction take place?

Rajesh Mishra said...

For superior Quality we should go for Rafale, for Quality and Quantity we should go for F-16 or Mig-35, for only Quantity we should prefer LCA-1/1A/Mk2. Only a judicious distribution is to be made depending upon the existing strategical conditions.

AVIRAL said...

Is S3 SSBN longer than INS Arihant??

Anonymous said...

@Prasun,

"The PLA will never launch any kinetic operations along the LAC ", this is bit like the French saying Germans will never attack in 1939, look how many troops and the strength of our defense is. The over-confidence and inability to think outside the box is a fatal mistake. This, one can see simply reading about the historical battles.

India is stronger than 1962 but also weaker. We are stronger on the outside, but inside we are weaker. There is less unity in our people than it was in 1962. Disaffected members can rack havoc. The east of the country is a major weakness.

Rohit

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,
Thank god that Hatcata-Nasirullah is arrested.He acted through some unrecognized madrasas in border area.Where he brainwash the young boys.He operate through some cow-smugglers.

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Prasun,

Is this being reported accurately?
Has Dhanush howitzer failed the last phase test?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/desi-howitzer-fails-last-phase-of-tests/articleshow/59694586.cms

Black box said...

Hi prasun,
http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/desi-howitzer-fails-last-phase-of-tests/articleshow/59694586.cms is it true. What are its implications?

buddha said...

http://taskandpurpose.com/russia-sukhoi-su-30sm1-fighter/
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/delhi-outlines-need-for-seven-sigint-aircraft-439504/
http://idrw.org/us-releases-guardian-to-india-mulls-on-avenger-ucav-deal/#more-141869
Will Indian air force get avenger with DEW ....Later in the next decade

Ravenclaw said...

Sir, https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.firstpost.com/india/indian-army-and-drdo-sign-pact-to-develop-medium-range-surface-to-air-missile-3839175.html/amp&ved=0ahUKEwiQp7_S7pnVAhXKVbwKHVe5Bc4QFggiMAE&usg=AFQjCNF34uQEB0-x9_Cym4Lo8fEvhNkCGg&ampcf=1.


"The MRSAM system will be capable of shooting down enemy ballistic missiles, aircraft, helicopters,drones, surveillance aircraft and AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control Systems) aircraft," the official said on condition of anonymity as he is not authorised to speak to the media.

What is this shooting down ballistic missiles thing all about? For ballistic md we have AAD and Pdv missiles. Is the official mistaken?

By ballistic missiles did he mean Nasr?

How is the Army variant going to be different from the one for airforce? This article explicitly talks about developing a configuration for the army.

Ankit Singh said...

Prasun da,
http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/sikkim-standoff-chinese-media-accuses-sushma-swaraj-of-lying-over-india-china-dokalam-row-threatens-war/772956/

Chinese media once again going through this war rhetoric.
Will the chinese really attack India?

Ankit singh

Anonymous said...

every one including bbc is highlighting the dalit/untouchability aspect of the indian president. and meanwhile, ironically

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40665959/canada-s-governor-general-in-protocol-breach-with-queen

bhoutik said...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/how-a-backup-road-to-a-new-chinese-watchtower-may-have-triggered-the-doklam-standoff/article19324045.ece

the link above points to a blog post in china that - though laden with much of the usual bs - appears to inject a dose of reality. interestingly, it also mentions (2nd last paragraph) that the 1962 war took “more than 10 years” to prepare. is that true? was china preparing for the war 10 years before it took place?

সুমন্ত নাগ said...

Prasun Da, once again another gem, thanks for such timely needed thread :)

BTW:

1)http://www.indiatvnews.com/politics/national-us-china-can-help-settle-kashmir-issue-says-farooq-abdullah-392467

senility seem overwhelming Farooq Abdullah

2)http://www.newsnation.in/india-news/pak-high-commissioner-basit-meets-chinese-bhutanese-counterparts-in-new-delhi-to-discuss-dokalam-article-177490.html

Aren't we showing too much patience about this guy ?

Your views Prasun Da ?

AVIRAL SINGH said...

Prasun da
http://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news/4201-three-raw-officers-defect-west
Are we so weak?? This happens every 3-4 years. Leave aside CIA it was revealed few years back that Bangladeshi intelligence agency has penetrated RAW. Above article mentions many such incidents when our own officers have compromised our own security. In one of your previous comment you had mentioned that Chinese MSS has penetrated our Buddhist monasteries in Ladakh & Tawang. Can you please give a brief insight into the influence & capability of MSS in India & how we tackled them in those Buddhist monasteries.

Anonymous said...


Kausal,
Mulayam is far better than Commies. Mulayam is corrupt, wants to be in power through appeasements. But what he says that China is the real enemy of India is absolutely true. Whereas the commies are not only corrupt, they have FoE according to their choice. They appease the Muslims by ignoring the terrorism. In Kerala, Commie parties own 3 channels: Kairali, People TV and Reporter. They own many resorts in tourist spots such as Munnar. I heard they also own a few professional schools/college through benami, and many shopping centers.

Ravi_N

buddha said...

https://www.pgurus.com/nowshera-martial-race-syndrome/

Rajesh Mishra said...

I remember that in 1962 some such things went in to the media for some few months or so and then suddenly it was the war. Our people were not only unitedly wishing but also generally expecting that India will win the war. They were perhaps too much elated by our then recent victory over Portugal in Goa. Hope there should not be a Himalayan blunder this time on our side.

Kapil said...

5 soldiers - Mudassar Ahmed, Mohammed Naseer, Jaspreet Singh, Shashi Kumar and Bimal Sinjali - martyred in last 1 week. Another soldier Jaydrath Singh martyred today. How many casualties did IA inflicted on enemy side in response to this?

Rahul said...

Dear Sir ; Please write a couple of sentences on How we can
Win these daily LOC duels

Also please tell us about Pakistani casualties

Are we able to cause more losses and damages than what we suffer or Not

buddha said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/armed-forces-to-get-enough-ammunition-stocks-for-short-intense-wars-in-two-years-after-flurry-of-contracts/articleshow/59704674.cms

Amitoj said...

Sir, why do you think that the people of america, & especially its media, hate trump so much?
I have never heard, or read anything positive about him in the popular american media.Sure,the guy has said many nasty things, but could this be the only reason for so much hatred against him.
Now, trump, & his campaign, are being investigated for collusion with the Russians. Do you think there is any truth in these allegations... are the democratic processes, the independent judiciary, institutions, intelligence agencies, of america so weak that nobody had any inkling of russian interference till it was too late?
Do you think these are just googlies to derail trumps administration?

I have read a few positives about trump on your blog comments, so thought i would ask for some answers.
Hope you answer.

AVIRAL said...

Fake chinese parts found in Indian Dhanush Guns. CBI registers FIR. http://www.deccanherald.com/content/623941/fake-chinese-spares-indigenised-bofors.html

CAG report says we have only 10 days War wastage rererves.I think this CAG report is about an year old & is far from present realities. Can you confirm Prasun da?
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-army-ammunition-war-supply-shortfall-cag-report/1/1008042.html

Anik said...

Prasun da,
It is happening quite opposite of what I was expecting. Yesterday again we lost one of our soldiers to pakistani sniper fire on LoC.
In last 10 days we have lost 7 soldiers, 2 were martyred because of mortar fire & rest 5 by paki snipers. How to deal with these snipers on LoC

Pierre Zorin said...

Through years of neglect and lack of forward planning India is in a very precarious position it appears with regards to defence preparedness. Plenty of talk but honestly other than obsolete weaponry barring a few what is available to counter the Chinese should ever they cross the border where India is at a disadvantage?
There are no motorised howitzers - just the old Bofors and field guns as well as some Pinaka, Smerch and Grad. No SPH as K-9 is years away. No appropriate rifles, carbines. No breeching mortars. No attack helicopters besides Mi-35 and ad hoc converted Mi-17. No modern IFV. No armoured troop carriers and special Op vehicles; no air defence covering most of India; few operational subs; no SLMB capability yet to hit China from say Bay of Bengal; no gun ships; inadequate numbers of AEW&C and lack of network centricity; inadequate winter gear, BPJ, Helmets ...need I go on. I am not sure what the Indian armed forces are relying on to win them a war-sheer determination and grit?
It is quite clear Chinese aggression is to teach India a lesson about getting close to the US, distract from Pakistan issue, make a mess of the fastest growing economy- nothing wrecks the economy than a threat of war and war wastage; as well as forcing India's hands re OBOR. I am surprised that the Western media is silent on Chinese aggression as well as no comments about completely inappropriate behaviour from a permanent member of the UNSC!

Pierre Zorin said...

Thi is what is needed: Breech loading mortars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwDlOdLZVwY
Nexter 8 x 8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_g3VSVFyis
Other mortar systems: Spear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OrlIIiZJJk
Eimos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oovfj9ipXY8
105mm SPH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Fn3SIqqp8
Polaris defence- for the deserts and the hills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HsDF1rIug8

K.SHEKHAR said...

Hi Prasun,

My question is about internal strife within India.

Isn't this large scale flow of people from Hindi heartland to non Hindi speaking state a cause of major cause of concern because such inflow is not only changing demographics but also putting tremendous pressure on limited resources.

Already there is tremendous resentment in Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra, Goa, North East against this "Hindi invasion". Most of these migrants from Hindi heartland do not add any value to the states they migrate to, just that they have been disowned, discarded by their own state where words like Birth Control, Family Planning never existed.

Isn't there a possibility that large scale anti migrant movements will become rampant across Southern & Eastern India?

Thanks

AMIT BISWAS said...

https://thewire.in/155911/bhutan-china-modi-border-opportunity/

It seems nowadays even journalists are expert in foreign affairs just by writing some fantasy books...whats your views on this report....i assume it will led to watsage of 5 mins but still expecting your reply sir??

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,

Chinese military units on the move in southern Tibet as tensions continue to mount in Doklam
http://asian-defence-news.blogspot.com/2017/07/chinese-military-units-on-move-in.html

Anonymous said...

@K.SHEKHAR,
Reality is that no-one wants to talk about it but its all boiling under the surface. Whats annoying is that they try to impose their version of everything on the locals. The only contribution they make to India is more mouths to feed and hatred. They feel galvanized with BJP in power. I hate to say this but this could rip us apart.

The states must be able to control who comes in.

RAT said...

Hi Pierre,

You have pointed to lot of short comings of the Army. So according to you the Chinese are more than match in mountain fighting capabilities than us. That means all high altitude advantage is lost well the Porkis surely put a good fight in Kargill if they had stuff like that then we surely would have never won. Understood we don't have lot of equipment thanks to short sightedness of previous govt. But there is certainly some equipment that makes situation better than 1962. Also the Army is quite aware of what is needed to be done this time unlike 1962. And remember remove the growth and determination there is no soilder. Regarding teaching India a lesson well we learned it in 1962 don't trust Chinkis no matter what and well hope their merchant ships will pass through Indian ocean using their super stealth technologies.

RAT said...

Hi Pierre,
Liked the 120 mm mortar in first link as Prasun had recommend the chassis of Vickers could be used to make some thing like this. Good one thanks for the links.

URAL said...

Sir, I wonder if it is wise to publish annotated pictures showing strategic infrastructure in an open forum?

Pierre Zorin said...

Prasun do ou know who she is? I thought her analysis was very realistic and spot on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uaQyttZuw

Anonymous said...

Shekhar,
It is not 'Hindi' invasion. I am talking about Kerala. It is an invasion of mostly Bengladeshis and followed by Northeasterners. Out of 10, I see 2-3 Hindis- mostly from Jharkhand- maoist area. I do not think these population will create any demographic change except the B-Muslims among them. Most of these people come to 'rich' south looking for a change in their life. Many earns 3-10 times what they earn in their own land. Most of these poor people will go back to their home state if situation improves or if they get married.

But I found that a few Bengladeshi Muslims got settled in Kerala, involved in illegal trade/activities and got married to poor Muslims so that they can live in Kerala as residents.

Vrushalk said...

@Pierre Zorin
She is Oriana Skylar Mastro.
"Oriana Skylar Mastro is an assistant professor of security studies at the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University"
This is a program hosted by Stimson Center:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfvYJFaLmqE

watch from 26:05

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Just got back from the MASKS 2017 expo. Will resume answering queries later tonight. Meanwhile, do watch these:

And lastly, do watch these excellent videos:

India-China Border via Gurudongmar Road in North Sikkim’s Finger Area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsAUFH6zc7s

MAKS 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o10PZiM3G8g

AVIC at MAKS 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QabXTM16XN0

Iran at MAKS 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-tNDWtF9Y

And for those interested in getting the finer details from the CAG reports, do read these 3 reports:

http://www.cag.gov.in/sites/default/files/audit_report_files/Report_No.15_of_2017_-_Compliance_audit_Union_Government_Army_and_Ordnance_Factories_Reports_of_Defence_Services.pdf

http://www.cag.gov.in/sites/default/files/audit_report_files/Report_No.20_of_2017_Compliance_audit_Union_Government_Defence_Services_Navy_and_Coast_Guard.pdf

http://www.cag.gov.in/sites/default/files/audit_report_files/Report_5_of_2017_Union_Government_Defence_PA.pdf

parthiv rao said...

Sorry out off topic In a future conflict with Pakistan, Sea Me We3&4 are the only Op fibers putting the entire countries infrastructure together. Cutting off those will cripple their economy in days. Better than blocking a port. Did anyone even considered that as an option?

K.SHEKHAR said...

@ ANON 3:17 PM

Migration from foreign countries both legal & illegal is allowed by the Central Govt. (and this includes migration from B'desh, Pakistan, Nepal, etc). This can be stopped.

But how do you stop large scale migration of "cattle class" from cow belt? Their own states are shitholes & now they migrate in lakhs to other non hindi speaking states & eat up their resources. Every state in South, East ensured success of Family Planning measures back in the 80s, only the Hindi speaking states failed.

Moreover, BJP has clearly stated not once but several times that they intend to encourage migration of HINDI speakers to non Hindi speaking states. This will ensure locals are reduced to a minority & BJP wins every single election

https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/saving-hindi-from-the-hindi-wallahs-how-to-separate-sense-from-nonsense?platform=hootsuite

http://indianexpress.com/article/business/economy/need-more-migration-to-sustain-ageing-peninsular-states-says-cea-arvind-subramanian/

And these Biharis, UP people behave like savages once they are outside their state abusing local people, their language, culture and since that's not enough they also get involved in crime.

buddha said...

Nice analysis
https://sputniknews.com/military/201707231055802542-russian-supercarrier-pros-cons/

Manoj Joshi said...

Pierre Zorin, that is Oriana Skylar Mastro, a Mandarin-speaking professor at Gergetown, I think and also an officer in the US Air Force

bhoutik said...

is there a need for India for a quick reaction launcher like the KZ-11?

Rajesh Mishra said...

China is trying to be very smart. Some Indian liberal intellectuals are playing in the hands of China and fooling the peoples of India.

Sanjeev Kumar said...

Prasun da,

Tejas FB page has disclosed that LCA mk1A will carry Uttam AESA radar and DARE EW suite.

Your comments?

AMIT BISWAS said...

any ground report u collected about Mig 35 and super 30 sukhoi upgrade

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

It takes more than a month for the 'desi' journalists to figure out the basics about the geo-location of the on-going China-India standoff:

http://indianexpress.com/article/explained/india-china-standoff-sikkim-doka-la-simply-put-where-things-stand-on-the-dolam-plateau-4763892/

To AMIT BISWAS: What is it about the MiG-35 that one needs to know? It still has the Zhuk-M2E MMR with slotted-array antenna & no AESA-MMR. As for the Super Su-30MKI, Rosoboronexport State Corp states that there is no such p0roject in existence & anything pertaining to such a project exists only in India, i.e. HAL ^ DARE are attempting to conduct the Su-30MKI's deep upgrade without any Russian OEM involvement, meaning the Ruskies are pissed offf because India is seen to be violating Russian IPRs & taking a big risk whose liabilities won't be shared by Russia.

To SANJEEV KUMAR: Who owns/administers the tejas FB page? ADA or HAL? And who is directing/executing the Tejas Mk.1A project, ADA or HAL? After acquiring answers to these, who will you be inclined to trust?

To BHOUTIK: No need at all. The KZ-11 is an ASAT weapon disguised as a satellite launch rocket.

To PARTHIV RAO: Physically destroying submarine optic-fibre cables or their shore-based gateways is not an option, since any such move will have severe international ramifications. On the other hand, physical destruction of domestic cvomms systems using such cables is perfectly legal during wartime.

Black box said...

Hi prasun,
http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/desi-howitzer-fails-last-phase-of-tests/articleshow/59694586.cms is it true. What are its implications?
Regarding ssbn Arihant class how many subs of this class will be built.When will the indigenous SSN construction take place?

buddha said...

then sir what about the present status of super-sukhoi 30mki upgrade
has it become a mirage and distant dream due to bureaucracy byzantine
making Gorkhha land union territory will solve the problem of present unrest

Ishaan said...

Hi Prasun,

https://t.co/iW8LpKpQAm?amp=1

"Confident with initial studies that show that the desi ‘Kaveri’ engine can be revived and turned around for fighter jet operations in a short time span, India has asked its French collaborators whether the power-pack of the engine can be further boosted to upgrade its fleet of Su-30 MKI fighters."

My Grey matter can't decide who is more nuts- Mr Manu Pabby or the technocrats who have come up with this absolutely fantastic idea of real engining the Su-30mki with an uprated Kaveri. I mean I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Man come on. Leaving everything aside this idea of a 125 kN Kaveri to replace the 122 kN Al-31FP is the mark of a true genius. The thrust upgrade of 3 kN will work wonders for the Su-30's thrust to weight ratio, it's payload capacity and maneuverability.

These guys have no clue what a big deal it is to install a new power plant into an airframe and flight test and certify it. Envelope extension, relighting tests, excetera. Not to mention whether the engine will be able to handle those mind numbing high alpha and the associated distorted airflow. There's a good solid reason astowhy the MiG-29 and Su-27 flanker family are capable of tail slides and all those post stall moves. Their power plants. And even updating an existing design which produces no more than 80 kN to above 120 kN isn't a walk in the park either. Then flight tests and certificates.

These folds must be geniuses to have conceived such an idea.




Can you enlighten us on the latest status of the Fgfa. Whether this project will suffer from the same fate as MTA? If not when will the detailed design deal between UAC and Hal be inked and what are IAF's plans for the Pakfa?

AMIT BISWAS said...

Sir what if Russia allows IAF to integrate western radars, avionics along with Electronic warfare euipments just like su 30 MKI project for MiG 35 , IAF could resurrect the squadron strength in most cost effective way....whats your take??? IAFs fighter procurement has become a sticky mess and no babus/netas from GOI/MOD it seems interested to touch upon it....alas squadron strength will dip alarmingly in future.....

Also what steps are being taken to further improve Su 30 MKI srvicability in IAF service???any news impetus from russian side you sniffed out??

And also about MiG 29k servicability ??? what teething problems being faced by IN there???any improvements there?? I came across info that FOD of engines due to loose debris on carrier deck is reducing engine TTSL...is it true??

and what are the new things you sniffed in MAKS 2017 which could be interesting from indian POV?? expecting a detailed post soon....also not to forget you have not yet uploaded post for your israel visit that you promised while you posted about IRAN

ALso would like to know your views on Mirage 2000 and Mig 29 upg platform upgradation without MAWS will make them vulnerable to BVR AMRAAMS / SAMs of PAF....isnt it a wrong decision by IAF to not include MAWS atleast for upgraded platforms ?? same goes for su 30 platform even if they fly at a greater altitudes than PAF fighters still they are vulnerable to SAMs without MAWS

Pierre Zorin said...

But all along I thought the Super Sukhoi project did include its OEM plus add ons by HAL! Since when did this deviate from the original intent? Given the risk and probable delays it was better for the IAF to trade in su30s with su-35!

Manu Singh said...

Prasun,

funny news !!!

https://theprint.in/2017/07/24/india-looks-to-add-muscle-to-kaveri-engine-for-upgraded-su-30-mki-fighters/

is it even possible?

RAT said...

Just checked an old video of Beoing tx pretty impressive and could use those f414's or the ADA could come up with something like this with limited CAS and point defence just like Prasun had recommend. But the billion dollar question who is going to put this idea accross their head.

bhoutik said...

why are HAL & DARE all of a sudden attempting to conduct the Su-30MKI's deep upgrade without Russian OEM involvement? how is that even possible without the engine, MIRES radar & the T/R modules for the wings and tail, & everything else? isn't this unprecedented to attempt to go the chinese way in violating IPRs? if this happens, won't there be fallout from the ruskies? have the russians officially objected/protested the move, & is the gov. aware of this attempt by HAL-DARE & does this have official sanction? i'm getting bad vibes over this prasun bhai.

AVIRAL SINGH said...

Pakistani defence industrial base better than ours: Indian Army Vice Chief Lt. Gen. Sarath Chand

indianexpress.com/article/web/pakistani-defence-industrial-base-better-than-ours-indian-army-vice-chief-lt-gen-sarath-chand-4767081/

Really??

Also prasun da what will you say on the recent CAG report which claims that we have only 10 day WWR.

AMIT BISWAS said...

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/infrared-search-and-track-systems-and-the-future-of-the-1691441747

Found this artcle.....whats the range of IRST sytems....also can IRST operate standalone mode bypassing Airborne onboard radar???

ashish gautam said...

Sir upload some pics of MAKS 2017... Including Russian flying beauties & human beauties too 😬😬

AVIRAL SINGH said...

Xi Jiniping's crackdown on PLA's inhuman organ transplant industry.

http://www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2017/7/25/Jinping-opposes-PLA-organ-trade

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,
China's doublespeak-"What is more interesting is the fact of China referring to the 1984 Sino-British Joint Declaration on Hong Kong as being a historical document that no longer has any realistic meaning, but a treaty signed in 1890 in which India had no role is relevant !."

www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/china-selectively-using-treaties-against-india-in-doklam/1108482

Gopu said...

Prasun, you had recently recommended Kallol Bhattacherjee's new book The Great Game. As a further take away from that area of discussion, Mahmud Ahmed's role supporting the Taliban as both an Army general and ISI head form an interesting part of this larger story. Here are some brief details on what has been uncovered so far on Ahmed.

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&the_isi:_a_more_detailed_look=mahmoodAhmed

https://spectator.org/the-invisible-awan-brothers-scandal/
http://disobedientmedia.com/2017/06/awan-brothers-scandal-creates-fears-about-scope-of-data-leak/

And something that has just come out of Washington. Pakistani Awan brothers may have compromised up to 80 US congressional members' data. One of them has recently tried to flee the country. I wonder if this data is now in Rawalpindi, ready to be auctioned to the highest bidder (read: Chinese, Arabs, or rogue 3rd party agents).

Why are our submarines being docked in such a precarious location? What happened to plans to build two hardened SSN/SSBN bases, one along the Eastern seaboard and one along the Western seaboard? Wasn't the Eastern base (PROJECT VARSHA) supposed to be up by now (with provisions to eventually hold 12 SSN/SSBNs)? Any updates?

BROWN DESI said...

Hi Prasun...With all the drama going on for the past 45 days (Doklam issue). It is my humble opinion that China is simply trying to choke India in to giving concession on the much larger and more important CPEC project due it being constructed on Indian territory occupied by Pakistan and to degrade the BIMSTEC program. I see no other reason for them to be so belligerent for a remote Himalayan location. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards;
BROWN DESI

bhoutik said...

warfare by bullshit on all fronts

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/world/asia/unesco-tibetan-medicine-india-china.html

sujoy said...

Sir,Your inside details are illuminating as always.
I have a few queries.

http://indianmilitarynews.com/2017/07/air-force-planning-to-construct-108-next-generation-aircraft-hangers/
1.Will this solve the issue of our fighter aircraft in the NE bases being vulnerable to Chinese NLOS ballistic missile strikes?

2.Would you please clarify what is exactly going on with the army's rifle procurement drama.First they said multibarrel.Then cancelled.Then indigeneous.That too rejected.Now another RFI.

3.Can upgraded t-72s in ladakh stop chinese t-96A and t-99s ?I have doubts.Why were not T-90s deployed instead.Will the new 464 T-90MS atleast be deployed facing china?

4.Chinese posters in defence forums often brag about their 300 km MBRL being able to smash IA ,is this feasible?

5.What sort of ATGMs equip our infantry in the NE?Are they sufficient for chinese heavy tanks in the areas where such vehicles can be employed?

6.Why are all 3 strike corps directed at Pakistan.It seems 3 strike corps would only be necessary in a total war scenario which is unlikely under the nuclear threshold.Should we not instead redeploy one of our strike corps to the chinese front?

7.Can our brahmos regiment and air force(keeping in mind s-400 deployment in TAR)destroy the main 3-4 rail road links supplying chinese forces in tibet quickly in a war?Are the Scalp cruise missile in rafales with BROACH warheads meant for that in part?

8.What is situation regarding towed artillery and truck mounted artillery?IS ATGS to fulfill towed requirement,or JV with foreign gun?Where does dhanush fit in into the equation?And its all quiet in motorized artillery dept,you had hinted Caesar might be favourite at one time.

Thank you.

Jyoti Sen said...

Dada.. P75i tender again revived. Ur take on the news? And likely contender who will win?

AVIRAL SINGH said...

New vedio of OFB's 7.62×51mm rifle. Everything looks fine except that all metal 20 round FN FAL magazine. http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/insas-rifle-lmg-carbine.43826/page-132

AVIRAL SINGH said...

Pradun da,
Akash missile cleared for deployment on China border still not deployed revealed a CAG report today. Also it says 30% missiles were faulty... These missiles are currently stored in alternate facilities. Can we move these missile quickly to China border?? And please can you give a comparative study of Indian & chinese AD systems on border?