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Wednesday, January 30, 2013

Everything You Wanted To Know About Pakistan's OP BADR

Read these:


Watch the following (aired on January 29, 2013) as well:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0UG1rbROVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F88RPFQC2s&feature=player_embedded

Watch these as well, that were aired on January 30, 2013:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJOsV3JRU6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtplKVJkIk&feature=player_embedded

The most revealing analysis, however, can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTuz3EQczcI&feature=player_embedded

The programmes below were aired on January 31, 2013:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_C9uMPtxJE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNOs_lAHQhA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPiGLpyRrOw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hoMYiVkmfk



87 comments:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Read this: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/locked-in-un-files-15-years-of-bloodletting-at-loc/article4358199.ece?homepage=true

Kshitiz Kumar said...

1.sir,Why does SU 30 MKI have no AESA is their any plans of it?is the l band radar really good as it is reputed to track Stealth planes,will any be fitted on SU30 MKIs,is the BARS radar on it good?
2.What is the use Beretta MX4 for BSF i see it as a stupid deal?
3.what is the status of gun shown in ur last pic,by what time will it come to limelight?

u missed these questions AGAIN sir.appreciate it if u can answer in detail.PLEASE ANSWER THEM

Anonymous said...

Damn seems nobody in the Paki Establishment wants Musharaf to return. He lies so bloody much even his former commanders don't trust him.

Thanks for the links Prasun.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Hi PrasunDa,

In your opinion do you think that the Gorkhaland agitation is being financed from Nepal & Pakistan ? It's an illegitimate demand . Nepalis have become a majority in Sikkim and now they are trying to extend their ever growing population by spreading into North Bengal .

Thanks,
Sujoy

Anonymous said...

must read

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/ashura.htm

rad said...

Hi prasun

The CLGM looks too similar to the lahat .It seems unbelievable that drdo made all that hig G shock tolerable components all by itself. Any word or news about collaboration or is it all hush hush.

Anonymous said...

thanks for the links sir.can u plz give some updates on ada amca project

Anonymous said...

sir,during kargil war does it was iaf mig29 which kept paf at bay?

Anonymous said...

Take what you read by these gents against Mushraf with a pinch of salt. These gents belong to PML(N) nawaz sharif. Like their boss they talk with a certain lets say political angle. Indians fall for this hook, line and sinker :-).

Gessler said...

Interesting article regarding Iron Dome by James Dunnigan -

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strategypage.com%2Fhtmw%2Fhtada%2Farticles%2F20130110.aspx&ei=fysJUbDbI4WyrAf014HgDw&usg=AFQjCNG8seIK4RJCy36WGpumI2RG3ru7og&sig2=5NX0NVhoq80M8xclfSK5pA

Quote from above article -
**the new Israeli Iron Dome system succeeded in shooting down about 85 percent of the 500 hundred rockets (of 1,500 launched) headed for Israeli populated areas**

If IA acquires Iron Dome, will we also get the license to build the Tamir SAMs here?

Any development on this front expected at Aero India 2013?

Gessler said...

Hmmm...

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftarmak007.blogspot.com%2F2013%2F01%2Fits-one-tomorrow-dont-miss-tarmak007.html&ei=9C4JUfWSNYmXiQfxp4GIBQ&usg=AFQjCNELnhZPWeI5bWzXW6Q0HVXvmX1wXA&sig2=IRPe64udCiQ1Y6cq9Nj7KA

Looks like AMCA, am I right?

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Sir,

Many Pakistani's whom I've talked to claim that 2-4 peaks on the Indian side which the PA/NLI had taken control of during Kargil are still occupied by the PA and that the Indian Army has not evicted them from these posts. There was an article in Indian newspapers too which had stated the same, according to these articles even after the mop up operations which went on till 2002 there was 1 peak or maybe 2 on the Indian side of the LOC which were still under PA control. Is this true?

Bhaswar said...

Also I've heard that an "advanced" variant of the Pinaka was tested this Tuesday and/or will be tested this week at the Chandipur based target range, is this the extended range Pinaka we've been hearing about for some time now?

Anonymous said...

Seems like the main thrust of the Sino-Paki strategy is to severe the link between Srinagar and Leh, thus paving way for the conquest of Leh-Ladakh region. This will allow China-Pakistan to dominate the entire NORTH-CENTRAL ASIAN region. What is India doing to counter this strategy? Is India even thinking proactively and considering preemptively? The only immediate alliance to thwart China is with Vietnam, Philippines and Japan. We need to fund, build and operate long-term strategic Naval bases in these regions in South China sea. Afghanistan is another major ally in Central-Asian region which needs to be militarily ramped up in-terms of strategic military alliance with teams of Indian Military personnel directly assisting in planning and coordination of their war efforts against Pakistan based Terrorist organizations. Its time to turn the tables on Pakistan to bleed it to death with a million cuts policy.

Unknown said...

Prasun,

wrt the ALH WSI/Rudra- which HMDS will be used on the helo to be used to aim the turret)? And will both pilots or just one wear this HMDS?


Also will the ALH WSI be used to support/insert Indian SOFs?The abilty fight your way in drop off SOFs and then fight your way out is surely pretty attractive to Indian military?

Can you see the IN operating the ALH WSI at a later stage to be used off their future LHD/LPD??

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Kshitiz Kumar: 1) Read this: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2011/05/super-su-30mki-from-air-dominance-to.html
2) Obviously the BSF begs to differ.

To Anon@3.15PM: Well, with the benefit of hindsight, it has become rather fashionable to blame Gen (Ret’d) Musharraf for all the ills that plague Pakistan today, & make him the scapegoat. But what these self-righteous Generals conveniently tend to overlook is the fact that had Musharraf not agreed to join forces with the US for the War on Terror, then for all intents & pruposes Pakistan would have been bombed back to the stone age, reducing the rest of Pakistan to the same type of medieval existence as that which presently prevails in FATA. By the way, the most revealing analysis aired thus far can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTuz3EQczcI&feature=player_embedded

Even more interesting is the visceral hatred the younger generation of educated Pakistanis have against the military establishment. Watch this debate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TZght3zmxg&feature=player_embedded

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Why only Nepal or Pakistan? Why not from New Delhi? It is perfectly logical for any UPA decision-maker sitting in New Delhi to use every available trick, including that of Gorkhaland, to bring the TMC to its heels. It is a classic stratagem employed throughout the ages.

To RAD: Interesting, isn’t it? On one hand the DRDO takes less than 7 years to come up with a super-duper ATGM/anti-helicopter projectile, & on the other it is still struggling to re-engineer a 1990s-design ATGM like the NAG in order to make it lighter!!! I’m glad you’ve spelt a rat somewhere in between, because there’s indeed a rat lurking within this whole saga.

To Anon@6.56PM: What????? Browse through the weblinks above & you’ll discover that the PAF & PN were vehemently opposed to OP Badr & therefore refused to take part in this operation. Plus, at that time, Pakistan’s national stocks of POL were at an all-time low (less than 7 days reserves), meaning under no conditions could Pakistan sustain even a limited duration high-intensity conventional conflict.

To Anon@7.05PM: Not according to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTuz3EQczcI&feature=player_embedded

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: The IDF version of Iron Dome/Tamir is designed to neutralise the kinds of threats that India won’t be facing on the battlefield. India’s reqmt is for interceptors optimised for neutralising 300mm MBRL rockets, meaning an off-the-shelf procurement of Iron Dome/Tamir combination is not the answer. Consequently, the Iron Dome/Tamir combination has to be re-engineered by IAI/RAFAEL & DRDO.

To BHASWAR: The peaks are not all located in a lateral manner & therefore along the LoC there are certain peaks that makes ingresses, but these are dominated by higher-altitude peaks under the IA’s control, which enable the IA to dominate such areas. The Pinaka MBRL rounds tested were the 60km-range Pinaka-2s.

To Anon@12.03AM: Not quite true. See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeb8yOH0nFs&feature=player_embedded

To UNKNOWN: The ANVIS colour HMDS from HALBIT Avionics. On the Rudra, only one aircrew will wear it. On the LCH, both will wear them. SOF teams can be inserted by both Mi-17V-5s & Dhruv Mk4s, with the Rudra helicopter-gunships providing armed escort. Dhruv Mk4 or any other version of Dhruv will not be acquired by the IN or ICGS since both have certified that the Dhruv ALH does not possess the reqd shipborne characteristics.

Unknown said...

Prasun,

Will it be the Anvis HMDS used as the MDS on the LCH too?


Can we not hope for an advance system like the SAMTAL TOPOWL HMDS??

rad said...

hi Prasun
Yes ,very few people understand that the canon launched missile is a generation or more ahead of normal ATGM , because of the fact of the extremely high g forces that are encounter while firing from a canon , around 20,000 g`s if i am right, All the components have to be specially made to withstand that , it could be that they have made a similar looking missile for normal launch from the ground rather than a canon.
If they have really succeeded than it does not take time to manufacture a GPS guided howitzer round which is state of the art and just entering production, we never know DRDO might do it as well!!!

Anonymous said...

sir ,
why has the bsf ordered this mx4 rifle in large no.s ??
is it any good??
the bsf could have selected from a pleathora of other weapons..y this rifle ??

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

Can you please explain why the bright yellowish-orange color was chosen for INSAS rifle furniture instead of black or camouflage color?

spanky's Blog said...

Hi Prasun,
When You say "there is rat lurking somewhere in CLGM saga" r u implying that it is a joint effort by India and Israel and DRDO is just claiming the credits for it alone?
OR
Could it be that DRDO has reversed engineered the LAHAT missile?After all we had many LAHATs in our inventory.

I don't think Israel will be very happy with our reverse engineering in this case.
Thanks
Swarop

raw13 said...

Indians are already completely checked mated with regards to central asia. All the articules from indian soucres are just wet dreams. As one western analyst said you have to take anything written by an indian wrt to pak with a large portion of salt because anything negative about pak is put out on loud speakers by them, as quality and objectivity are extremely rare in the Indian mindset. (example: current be-heading, students being slapped in Australia --> leads to national crying!!!)

Indeed Prasun is correct there are multiple peak on the indian occupied side that are higher (same goes for Pak side). However, Point 5353 has for the first time given PA clear sight of the highway. This allows PA to interdict IA supplies going north. Since then there has been no IA attempt to interdict PA supplies in Neelam valley (though PA has a by-pass now). It has equalized things and re-strained IA. If and when dogs of war are unleased on the sub-continent this peak will come into its own. It has strategic relevance wrt to the northern Kashmir. Just look on the map!!!

Anonymous said...

a great article:


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/OA31Df01.html

What would happen if ISI or our raw13 friend above starts to arm different castes in India?

nag said...

hi, yesterday saw SPYDER sam in Chennai highway. It was on a green Benz truck. Though the back of the truck was covered I can see the contours and compared with the image on the net bang on. SPYDER MV was written on the doors.

nag said...

Why indian and Russian SLBM's have cap and western missiles don't. which is better?

Anonymous said...

All about peak 5353, how it was lost and its consequences:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/1352359/Fears-of-fresh-clash-over-Kashmir-peak.html


Anonymous said...

another excellent article wrt BJP:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/26487-peak-5353-still-under-pakistani-control.html

was it ever discovered why the gorkha reg chickened out?

Anonymous said...

raw13 did you know the only way to get rid off wet dreams is to wank daily often several times a day?If India has a wet dream that means they aren't wanking like the Pak side LoL

joseph stalin said...

prasun sir does india provides any direct military support to blochistan rebels in pakistan and what type of assistance india gives to the Northern Alliance. Does Fakhor air base have any indian mig 29

Anonymous said...

I have one question, If you compare LAHAT and CLGM side by side the CLGM is heavier, taller and bigger but yet have less range (5KM) than LAHAT (8KM). Its just the propulsion or something else?

Anonymous said...

To Raw13: Mountain Peaks and other higher elevation topographic features are noteworthy only for yesterdays battles. Modern warfare uses modern technology such as Spy Satellites, UAVs to attain higher-ground in theater of operation. It is pointless to hold non-strategic ground such as frozen peaks. The most strategic is the Siachen Glacier region, and India should try to grab as much of PoK territory towards Gilgit as possible during future wars with Pakistan.

Akhil Suri said...

Hi Prasun,

Is Israel an ally of INDIA ? I just get the impression that in order to placate the Muslim votebank the Govt won't accept it , even the BJP.

Thanks,
Akhil S

Anonymous said...

TO Prasun da and nag@4.21 pm

SPYDER SAM IN Mercedes Benz...I thouht SAMS will be on TATA truck..

Prasun da any idea...IS it for IAF or IA..Any why there is no media report about there inductions in the armed forces..VMT

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Things are OK. The proverb goes that if pakistan666 is your friend then where is the need of enemy for you.

jai said...

1.was india's decision to acquire nuclear weapons and making europeans unhappy was right, if yes then why ? 2.indians were used for slave trade aka.referred as coolie by british colonialist,has there been any change in regard to this anglo's preception towards indians in 21st century or they continue to regard us as a usefull tool to implement their divide and rule policy over eurasian landmass . 3. What's your views about 19th century german scholar and resercher max muller,do you agree with his views on aryan invansion theory.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN: Didn’t I mention the LCH in my reply above? TopOwl HMDS 9s optimised for combat aircraft & is an overkill for helicopter aircrew. SAMTEL only provides after-sales services for TopOwl & is by no means the OEM for this HMDS, which remains a THALES product.

To RAD: Truth is, the CLGM/SAMHO is a re-engineered LAHAT, i.e. IAI shared its technical data packages for the LAHAT as part of a direct industrial offsets package associated with an major undisclosed procurement a decade ago, & the DRDO’s role has been to slightly re-engineer the LAHAT to suit the IA’s GSQRs. Making a GPS-guided 155mm projectile isn’t a major challenge…that’s a non-issue. What is reqd to make such PGMs lethal & effective is the IRNSS constellation of GPS navigation satellites.

To Anon@12.38PM: Logically, the Tavor 21s ought to have been procured in order to ensure commonality with the assault rifles of other CAPFs.

To Anon@1.19PM: Obviously it was a mistake. The latest variants of INSAS with all-black colour-scheme are much better in terms of both looks & performance.

To SPANKY’s BLOG/SWAROP: Truth is, the CLGM/SAMHO is a re-engineered LAHAT, i.e. IAI shared its technical data packages for the LAHAT as part of a direct industrial offsets package associated with an major undisclosed procurement a decade ago, & the DRDO’s role has been to slightly re-engineer (and not reverse-engineer) the LAHAT to suit the IA’s GSQRs.

To Anon@4.16PM: You don’t need the ISI or RAW13 to do this, since the porous India-Myanmar border makes it very very easy to import the weapon system of anyone’s choice from the Karen & Kachin rebels, both of whom are sitting on huge stocks of small arms & ammo.

To NAG: SpyDer MV or SpyDer-MR? Obviously the Western SLBMs are superior.

To Anon@4.36PM: It isn’t about chickening out, but all about priorities & the need to dominate certain high-altitude observation posts.

To JOSEPH STALIN: No military assistance assistance—direct or indirect—has ever been provided to anyone in Balochistan. What has been provided is financial aid to certain clans—like the Bugti clan—which is used for political purposes OUTSIDE Pakistan, such as in Switzerland. For the Northern Alliance, the same type of financial support is now extended.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@9.07PM: Truth is, the CLGM/SAMHO is a re-engineered LAHAT, i.e. IAI shared its technical data packages for the LAHAT as part of a direct industrial offsets package associated with an major undisclosed procurement a decade ago, & the DRDO’s role has been to slightly re-engineer (and not reverse-engineer) the LAHAT to suit the IA’s GSQRs.

To AKHIL SURI: Yes it is an ally as well as a strategic partner.

To Anon@12.52AM: SpyDer-SR is for both IA & IAF.

To JAI: 1) Of course, it was & in fact n-weaponisation should have commenced in 1974 itself. Even the US at that time wanted India to do it quickly so that by 1979 India could be ushered into the NPT as a n-weapons state. Regretably, India missed the bus at that time. 2) If such a perception were to hold true today, then TATA Motors would not have been proud owner of Jaguar & Land Rover today. 3) Almost all 19th century & early 20th century sociologists & archaeologists have been proven wrong due to advances in remote-sensing technologies that have been attained since the 1980s.

Unknown said...

Prasun,

How is the TOPOWL HMDS "overkill" it is specifically designed for use on combat helos, maybe not for ALH WSI, but it would be an excellent fit for the LCH.

It is already meant to be used on the Eurocopter Tiger and is in use in France and Austraila on HELICOPTERS.


I had heard you say some time back the TOPOWL would be used on the LCH sir. Not anymore? this is a great shame

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN: There are two types of TopOwl HMDS in existence. The one for combat aircraft aircrew, originally known as TopSight, is also known as TopOwl now according to THALES (especially those in service for the IN's MiG-29Ks). Secondly, the ANVIS Colour HMDS was selected because it was already integrated with both the ELBIT Systems-supplied FLIR pod (on both the Rudra & LCH) & the Nexter Systems-supplied THL-20 cannon.is a Pilot and Co-Pilot Day/Night Helmet Display System for head-out flight. The new generation ANVIS not only offers tracking capabilities, but also combines innovative line-of-sight (LOS) technology and HUD capabilities, thus enhancing flight safety and crew coordination while facilitating the operation of the helicopter’s systems. It is, in fact, more versatile but bless bulkier than the TopOwl version for attack helicopters.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: From the recent revelations it is now crystal-clear that:
1) The then Pakistani PM Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif was fully in the know about the nitty-gritties of OP Badr way BEFORE May 1999.
2) The then NDA-led Govt of India was putting enormous pressure on the US to force the Pakistan Army to withdraw from the occupied peaks.
3) Had Pakistan decided not to vacate the occupied heights after July 4, 1999, then India would have had no other choice but to order the Indian Army & IAF to cross the LoC & enact a ‘reverse-Kargil’ campaign (something which has since been corroborated by ex IA COAS Gen V P Malik), meaning the conflict would have continued till September 1999.
4) The Pakistan Army made the fatal blunder of estimating that the snows in & around the Kashmir valley would melt only by late May/early June 1999.
5) The Pakistan Army’s biggest blunder was not to physically occupy sections of NH-1A, especially the Zoji La Pass.
6) The Pakistan Army sent the NLI intruders on a one-way trip across the LoC, & had never planned for a coordinated withdrawal, or an exit route for the intruders, which also meant that the intruders were never meant to be re-stocked or re-supplied with food & ammunition apart from what they had brought along with them when the intrusions got underway in November 1998.
7) More than the US, it was actually enormous pressure brought over Pakistan by China and Saudi Arabia that forced Nawaz Sharif to order the Pakistan Army to withdraw its intruders from the occupied heights. China was especially deeply pissed off with the Pakistan Army’s decision to conduct launch drills of M-9 & M-11 TBMs in the Deosai Plains in the Northern Areas in late June 1999.
8) Gen Musharraf’s defence of OP Badr—staging a tactical operation to reap strategic benefits—was fatally flawed on all counts, since the tactical plan itself was seriously flawed which in turn led to two greatest strategic blunders: shaming of Pakistan on the global stage & its Army being portrayed as a rogue institution; and far more worse, it contradicted Pakistan’s own contention post-May 28, 1998 that conventional hostilities with India were no longer possible under a nuclear-overhang. The staging of OP Badr, OP Vijay & OP Safed Sagar all proved beyond a shadow of doubt that limited or localised high-intensity conventional wars were indeed possible to conduct even among two nuclear weapons-armed states without any fear of either party climbing the nuclear escalatory ladder.
9) The roots of the military coup staged by the Pakistan Army on October 12, 1999 lay not in the botched-up OP Badr, but in Nawaz Sharif’s decision in 1998 to unceremoniously dismiss the then PA COAS, Gen Jehangir Karamat.
10) Traditionally, the Pakistan Army’s apex decision-makers have tended to focus more on tactical battles while totally disregarding the wider strategic implications & outcomes, i.e. not bothering to hypothesize about the varied probable end-states.

rad said...


HI Prasun
some one seems to have a wet dream in DRDO on building a AMCA stealth ac incorporating all cutting edge tech! and there are desi journalists which shamelessly print their dreams. I realy wonder if just one of the requirments can be achieved Indigenously
what are the specs of the new version of the Pinaka?

Anonymous said...

Sir how many types of cruise missiles are now being developed by India
1. ALCM (nirbhay family)
2. SLCM (nirbhay family)
3. LACM (being co-developed with israel)
Am little bit confused in these abbreviations.

Akhil Suri said...

Thanks Prasun .

WRT the answer you gave about Anglo Saxon perception about Indians I beg to differ with you. Till date there are a number of people in UK , EU and US who will not sit besides you ( read Indians) in a bus , will not touch food provided by Indian waiters in restaurants , will not allow their children to mix with Indian children among a whole lot of other things. To make matters worse most major Western dailies/TV channels carry news about Indians stealing Western jobs both home and away ( outsourcing) They are engaging with India coz this is a huge market .

Thanks,
Akhil

sujit kumar said...

sir i heard a long back about avro and another transport/logistics plane will be replaced by some new next gen planes whats happening right now..?
2. What is india trying to do about their air squadrons...which is already going low to just 26 after 2015...??
3.What will be the aircrafts with iaf after 2015..??

raw13 said...

@Anon wrt to Siachen Glacier region:

Ask any one who has fought in the mountains. The high ground matters because you have a permenant set of eyes on your enemy at all times and your artillery does all the damage with minimum number of rounds. This means less supplies needed. In the Mountains supplies make the difference between victory or defeat. Men on both sides are not cowards. This is even true today in Afghanistan. What was the first thing 101 did, take the peaks!!!! the UAV, etc are expensive can easily be interdicted and shot down.

Now why do you think IA fights so hard to keep the peaks in Siachen Glacier? They dominate the surroundings. Peak 5353 allows PA to put its foot on the supply route to Siachen Glacier and all northern areas. Remember what i said about supplies above?

@Prasun; your analysis of the PA thinking (blunders) is pretty good!

--> However if you know the situation that existed in IA towards the end of the 90's. It had to be taught a lesson. A lesson where they ran out of coffins to bury their soilders. They had to beg anyone and everyone to help with ammo. Here was a shiny wanna be super-duper power begging! The greatest success of India was in the diplomatic world.

However all that diplomatic gains were lost in the next standoff: Operation Parakram. The bloody nose that IA got in Kargil/drass was in the back of IA minds and they knew they had another blood letting coming to them. Again diplomacy played a role.

At the end of the day both nations are considered like little children by the rest of the world.

Anonymous said...

why kashmir's will always love india:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/OA10Df01.html

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: In most cases, discredited jingoism triumphs over logical reasoning, which is a real tragedy. Specs of Pinaka Mk2 were already uploaded at: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2013/01/snapshots-of-drdo-exhibits-at-iscs.html

To Anon@11.07AM: 1) ALCM (Nirbhay family) 2) SLCM (Nirbhay family) 3) LRCM (air-launched & possibly ship-launched, all being co-developed with Israel) 4) BrahMos-2 (hypersonic ship-launched & ground-launched, both being co-developed with Russia.

To AKHIL SURI: I myself have never experienced such discrimination nor have I seen other persons of Indian origin being discriminated against in such a manner.

To SUJIT KUMAR: 1) That plan is on hold. 2) That’s why additional Su-30MKIs have been & are being ordered.

To RAW13: VMT, but they aren’t my conclusions, but rather the conclusions of credible, well-respected & well-informed former senior Pakistan Army & PAF officials who have studied & analysed OP Badr & its implications & aftermath (as revealed over the past four days in various Pakistani TV channels). In my view, this operation was launched in response to the interdiction of Pakistan’s supply lines to the Northern Areas by incessant Indian Army artillery fire-assaults in the Neelam Valley area since 1996. Also, had it not been for OP Badr, the long-overdue force modernisation Indian Armed Forces would most probably not have kicked off after 1999. India’s armed forces therefore owe a debt of gratitude to the likes of Gen Musharraf & Co for expediting the removal of blinkers from the eyes of the then Govt of India & its MoD.

sbm said...

Just a point of important clarification: Indian were not "slaves" under the "coolie" system but indentured labourers. The term of servitude was usually around 5 years (if you saved up enough you could buy yourself out earlier) and then in many places you were offered land or money and a ticket home.

Conditions were not good and racism and discrimination endemic but there was a huge difference between the indentured system and slavery.

Incidentally, "coolie" has the same racist connotations for Indians from the Caribbean, Fiji, South Africa and probably Mauritius as the dreaded "N-word" has for the Africans.

madhup said...

sir,
1.why is that lca doesn't make use of canards ??
2.what will be the empty weight , fuel load and mtow of tejas mk2 ??
3.tejas mk2 vs j 10b vs jf 17 block 2,which one is better??
4.any update on the R-95 ramjet-powered BVRAAM?
5.is astra mk2 comparable to other bvraams of other countries like when it compared to amraam,meteor,pl 12,pl21 or rvv sd ??
6.Why the Derby missile is comparatively lighter at 110 kg while the Astra Mk1 is heavier at 150kg? Can't measures be taken to make it lighter? The Astra Mk2 will have about twice the range of Astra Mk1,so does it mean it will about 1.5 times heavier.Will steps be taken to make it lighter like use of composites?
7.aw101 vs ch148 vs ec 725 will be better for indian navy shipbprne helicopter requirement.
8.what will be the ideal combination of attack and transport helicopter for indian navy future lhd.
9.can anyway LCH/LAH be compared to Eurocopter tiger in performance if not sensors and all.??

Mr. Ra 13 said...

"India’s armed forces therefore owe a debt of gratitude to the likes of Gen Musharraf & Co for expediting the removal of blinkers from the eyes of the then Govt of India & its MoD." - Wonderful.

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Sir,

What is the status of the Kishanganga hydroelectric project? Construction on the dam was halted by the Hague's Permanent Court of Arbitration in October 2011 due to Pakistan's protest of its effect on the flow of the Kishanganga River. "After Pakistan's application was first rejected, the court asked India late September to stop constructing any permanent works that would inhibit restoration of the river. While India cannot construct the dam, they can continue on the tunnel and power plant in hopes that the court will allow the project." When can we hope for a final verdict on the project, will we get the nod in your opinion?

What is the progress on the military related infrastructural development in the North-East, any timeline available and what exact projects have we undertaken/planned?

Manoj said...

Hi Prasun ,

I want to apply for a few MNC Aerospace & Defense companies operating in India but I am told by friends / relatives that the work done in these India offices are pretty mediocre just like BPOs. Will you please let me know if this is true .

Regards,
Manoj

Akhil Suri said...

Thanks Prasun .

Also , I recon that the MIG 21 and MIG 27 that were shot down in Kargil were not carrying any countermeasures . Is this true.

-Akhil

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
1.The MSMC and the Multi Caliber Weapon look awesome. But the MCW looks bulky. What could be its weight? Hope the Army will not reject these 'desi' versions for costly imported ones, as is their usual custom.
2.The CLGM and SAMHO have almost the same dimensions and mass. Where lies the difference?
3. Will Tejas-1 and Rudra get their Operational Clearance this year?Eagerly waiting for your thorough coverage on Aero India-2013. Hope you will give full coverage to Tejas-1, Rudra , LCH, Indian AEW & CS among other things. Will you be also covering 'Iron Fist' Exercise to be held this month??

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

U say that IN has requested a 6500 km SLBM for S5/S6. Which subs are the 5000 km version of K-4 for in that case ? S3/S4 ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MADHUP: 1) Canted delta-wing design obviates the need for canards. 2) Let’s see what ADA says during Aero India 2013. 3) That too will be evident by February 10, 2013. 4) None. 5) It will be comparable to R-77 RVV-AE. 6) Derby BVRAAM’s engagement range is much lesser than that of Astra Mk2. 7) AW-101 will be a better choice. 8) It’s too early to talk about shipborne attack helicopters. 9) No.

To BHASWAR: The dam’s construction is on hold due to a stay order from The Hague's Permanent Court of Arbitration. But the run-of-the-river hydroelectric power project is being implemented without any restrictions. In the end, in all probability, a compromise formula will emerge AFTER the China-sponsored construction of some three major hydroelectric-cum-dam construction projects in Gilgit-Baltistan is completed after another five years. India’s North-East remains as neglected as ever.

To MANOJ: No, it isn’t true.

To AKHIL SURI: That’s true.

To SNTATA: 1) MSMC’s specs are all available in a poster uploaded at: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2013/01/snapshots-of-drdo-exhibits-at-iscs.html
2) CLGM & SAMHO are one & the same. Only difference is that CLGM is fired from 120mm rifled-bore cannon, while SAMHO is launched from a manportable tripod launcher. 3) Impossible this year. And it has nothing to do with operational clearance. What needs to come first is full flight certification of weapons-qualified Tejas Mk1 & Rudra, & only then can IOC & FOC proceed. If this isn’t understood then one will end up in a vicious circle of ill-informed speculations about IOC-1, IOC-2, IOC-3 etc. The Rudra has only just begun its flight-tests & till now even its ATGM has not been selected. That should be a good enough indicator of what more needs to be done prior to IOC.

To Anon@1.55AM: 5,000km-range SLBM will go on board the S-5 & S-6 SSBNs. 6,500km-range SSBN will follow in the latter half of the following decade.

Anonymous said...

i have some Israeli friends, they had told me about iron dome(well, not exactly the name) that they had developed such system, IA and DRDO was sleeping for 2 -3 years and just now they are waking up to its potential :(

rad said...

HI Prasun
I have a question is that is slightly out of topic and i hope it is ok. This is a continuation of what Akhil suri said about racism. I Have found there is a lot of racism in thailand of all place rather than the west where apart from the low income areas genrally indians are treated well. In thailand especially in the tourist areas , indians are treated like 3rd rate tourists and are segregated when it comes to ques like boating para sailing , hotels etc. they dont talk to you and they abuse you in thai which you dont know , many friends and family members have experianced the same to their shock . why is it? because the way indian tourists behave? as a resident you would know better.

Pierre Zorin said...

Racism is everywhere whether you accept or not.there are various reasons for it but it'd be wrong to label it in black and white terms.Ask any NE Indians how they are treated by the rest of India.Go to South India and see how they view North Indians.Until recently Bengalis were looked down upon by majority of North Indians and kept out of major areas like sports and national politics.In Australia and NZ, even though most people are not racists yet when it comes to mixing with the inner circle a lot of people do not know much about Indians and they won't let you in even unwittingly especially in the cuntry regions.Redneck behaviour in the US is more aggressive in some parts to not just Indians but Mexicans and hispanic people.Remember Rwanda?Remember Solomon Islands?Fiji? Why even see the conflict in the Muslim world between Shias and the Sunnis or in Northern Ireland between the Protestants and the catholics.Wherever human beings are there will be prejudice sadly and many Indians don't do any favours by acting the goat when overseas.

Pierre Zorin said...

I did not intend it sorry for the typo which reads very rudely it should be Country regions!

Anonymous said...

Prasun,

http://imageshack.us/a/img233/7272/amca3d.jpg

Can yu post the link to this video. It was shown on Discovery channel and they showed AMCA also ?

There are lot of report coming about AMCA regarding some new tech going in this. Is there something new that we are gonna see in AMCA that we haven't seen in any of the 5th gen jets yet ?

Who is gonna manufacture AMCA ? HAL is way too busy.

Can we expect something new on AURA UCAV during Aero India 2013 ?

What is the problem now which is preventing drdo from testing Nirbhay ?

Surely drdo also knows Prithvi cannot be compared to Agni series of missiles. Can we expect drdo to soon test BMD against Agni ?

What new deals and deliveries can we expect this year ? Is the defence spending gonna get axed or FM has not taken the final call yet ? Does it look like FM is not gonna cut defence spending ?

abs said...

@prasunda
what are the implications of the following? http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/india-irked-as-china-gets-pakistans-strategic-gwadar-port/articleshow/18299706.cms

Kshitiz Kumar said...

sir what is the status of gun by drdo shown in the last pic of ur previous post

Anonymous said...

Tsk tsk tsk What's the main reason behind pakis being so! Dumb! ?

Anonymous said...

Will the K-4 and its 5000 km follow on carry MIRVs ?

Gessler said...

Hi, any idea what the EMB-145I AEW&CS could be named? For example LCA was named Tejas...

Joseph Stalin said...

prasun sir, but pakistani were saying that india is giving monetry and military assistance(providing small arms such as ak47 and rpg etc) to baloch rebels through indian ambassy in kabul and other indian concalates in near border region of pakistan. And also pakistani claimed that they have evidence of all this and RAW is behind this. And they were also claiming that many bomb explosion incidence in many cities of pakistan were done by raw. Sir how much true are these claims actually.

Joseph stalin said...

sir what is the best indian have in following category in your point of view:-
1.anti radiation missile
2.air launched cruise missile more than 200 km range
3.1000kg jdam comparable guided bomb.
4. Bvr missile
5. Wvr missile
6. Air launches anti shipping missile more than 100km range

Anonymous said...

there goes india's choking point at Malacca strait, must read, will counter your view about china
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-irked-as-China-gets-Pakistans-strategic-Gwadar-port/articleshow/18299006.cms

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Hi PrasunDa,

Will you please elaborate what are the jobs that people do in the various Defense MNCs in India . I too heard that the job is mostly confined to software testing and is pretty low end. Apart from S/W testing it seems there is no other job related to weapons or aircraft designing . Those high end jobs go to Russia and Eastern Europe .

A US VP of a Defense company told me that the engineering skill is simply not available in India. Truth be told I am an engineer as are many of my friends and I do not hear anyone doing any hi end job .

Regards,
Sujoy

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: There’s a reason for this. Firstly, several of the male tourists from India have stereotyped Thailand as being a land fit for only whore-mongering. Add to this a similar attitude adopted by the visiting Malaysian Indians & Singaporean Indians, plus similar attitudes of the visiting tourists from other corners of South Asia, & you won’t find it difficult to fathom the reasons behind an average Thai citizen’s perception of people of South Asian origin. I myself have several times physically & publicly whacked with my hockey-stick some of the utterly disgraceful male tourists hailing from India whenever I have come across such disgraceful behavior. Back in India too, I have seen several Indian college/university students publicly mocking their fellow mates hailing from the North East, but it must also be said that most of the students hailing from the North East tend to stick to their own clans (i.e. a ghetto mentality) & don’t socialise or interact much with their course-mates hailing from other parts of India.

To PIERRE ZORIN: Very well-explained indeed.

To Anon@11.21PM: For goodness sake, it’s just a CAD of the AMCA & there’s nothing earth-shattering about it, is there? There will be a lot more visuals & information emanating from the Aero India 2013 expo next week. Whatever new-tech will go on board the AMCA will be more or less of the same type as that on the FGFA. IF the AMCA is to be built, then there’s no other option but to turn to HAL. There’s no problem about testing Nirbhay, but there’s a challenge of continuously plotting the flight trajectory of the LACM over a long distance, for which specialized telemetry tracking systems are reqd to be deployed in an arc both at sea & on land. No new deals will be struck for the remainder of this fiscal year. The defence budget will not be axed for FY 2013 & it will register a positive growth rate, but the increase over this year’s revised budget will be marginal.

TO ABS: No negative implications whatsoever. What has been awarded to China is just a port authority management contract, & not the mandate to commandeer the entire port, which is an entirely commercial affair with no military connotations whatsoever. It is very similar to the contract between Sri Lanka & China regarding the upcoming Hammantota port, the only difference being that the latter is being executed by China as a turnkey project.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KSHITIZ KUMAR: It is undergoing evaluations by various CAPFs at the moment.

To Anon@4.14PM: The whole of Pakistan too is asking this very question.

To Anon@5.36PM: Yes.

To GESSLER: What’s in a name? After all even the A-50I PHALCON hasn’t yet received a ‘desi’ name. And how spectacularly stupid was the decision in 2001 to name the LCA as ‘Tejas’, especially in an era of low-observable technologies. The LCA’s name suggests the politicians of that time thought that an airborne LCA would announce its arrival in the skies by its sheer radiance, or even blinding radiance, not realising just how stupid it all was in an era of BVR combat. A total lack of vision & imagination was displayed by those who thought of naming the LCA as ‘Tejas’.

To JOSEPH STALIN: Those claims have emanated from Pakistan Army’s Military Intelligence Directorate (MID), but when Pakistan’s parliamentarians were given in-camera briefings, all that was shown to them were small arms which the MID claimed had originated from India, i.e. no irrefutable or foolproof evidence of India engaging in weapons trafficking inside Balochistan or anywhere else inside Pakistan via Afghanistan. Therefore, no MP of Pakistan today believes whatever the MID or even Pakistan’s Interior Ministry claims the Indian role to be. 1) Kh-31P. 2) None. 3) None. 4) R-77 & R-27R/T. 5) R-73E. 6) AGM-84L Harpoon.

To Anon@7.23PM: No one with any element of sanity will ever even dream about using the Malacca Strait as a naval choking point. Why? It’s elementary, for India being a signatory to the UNCLOS convention is treaty-bound to honour & uphold the right to freedom of navigation along international sea lanes of communications, which includes the Malacca Straits. Therefore, no one from India’s armed forces will even try to choke the Malacca Straits. Furthermore, what has been awarded to China is just a port authority management contract, & not the mandate to commandeer the entire port, which is an entirely commercial affair with no military connotations whatsoever. It is very similar to the contract between Sri Lanka & China regarding the upcoming Hammantota port, the only difference being that the latter is being executed by China as a turnkey project.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Companies like L-3 MAPPS, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, SAAB AB, THALES & DuPont have all established their R & D centres in India, mostly for devising CAD/CAM solutions as well as systems integration solutions. For instance, the entire systems integration of the combat management system & integrated platform management system for the six NGPVs of the Royal Malaysian Navy was done at L-3 MAPPS’ Bengaluru-based facility. While it is true that cutting-edge/high-end engineering skills are not yet available in bulk quantities in India, what is also true is that there are today tens of thousands of sub-contractors/vendors for providing after-sales product support for those weapon systems that were acquired since the early 1990s & they’re steadily climbing the learning curves. Just to give you one instance, it was revealed during the recently concluded NAVARMS conference/expo in New Delhi last Friday (which I had attended) that it is Mahindra Defence that recently completed re-lifing & modernisation of the Kh-35 Uran-E ASCMs that were acquired for the three Project 15 DDGs & three Project 16A FFGs. With each passing day therefore, more & more India-based vendors are qualifying for undertaking similar or more complex sub-contracts. There will be more transparency on this issue once the DDP 2013 guidelines are issued by the MoD by this March, in which there will be special emphasis & clarity on direct industrial offsets contracts being linked to through-life product support for military hardware & being inked concurrently at the very same time any major hardware procurement contract is inked, this being done to assure the Indian sub-contractors that an assured market for through-life product support will indeed exist & such industrial offsets contracts can easily be pledged to any Indian banking institution as collateral in order to secure the financial borrowings reqd for the sub-contractor’s skills/expertise upgradation (all this was my suggestion to the MoD last year after the MoD had solicited my views/inputs as an industrial vendor in lieu of drafting the to-be-released DPP 2013 guidelines.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

PrasunDa, as usual great explanation.

Regards,
Sujoy

Sujoy Majumdar said...

PrasunDa,

Forgot to ask this . Regarding the re-lifing & modernisation of the Kh-35 Uran-E by Mahindra I heard that the actual work is done by engineers from US and Russia who are on Mahindra's payroll . I had also heard that TATA was employing foreign engineers for the EW tender that they won recently .

Thanks again.

Sujoy

Akhil Suri said...

Hi Prasun,

Maybe slightly offtopic but you won't believe it . Last Friday a gentleman called me from Cassidian , Bangalore and I was able to explain the concept of BVR conflict quite well . This gentleman claimed that he was with the IAF for 24 years. After hearing my explanation he asked me if I was a spy . I still can't believe how did this guy ever get a job .

Cheere,
Akhil

ThinkTank said...

http://wuxinghongqi.blogspot.in/2010/04/design-of-chinese-air-forces-futural-j.html




Is it True...?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Not US for the Kh-35 Uran-E, since the OEM is Russia’s tactical Missiles Corp. Russian technocrats & supervisors from the OEM are required on the shopfloor for QC & QA purposes & their role is more like those of field service representatives. Actual hands-on work is done by Indians but under the supervision & guidance of the OEM’s personnel. Since TATA Power SED & Larsen & Toubro have joint forces to jointly bid for supplying the customised EW system, it is logical that their respective foreign technology providers (ULTRA Electronics of UK & Cassidian of Germany) will be involved as OEMs as well for both providing the hardware that cannot be built in India, as well as for training Indian personnel for servicing such hardware in-country.

To THINKTANK: Of course not. It’s just inspired fan-art.

rad said...


HI prasun
I am looking forward to the day when the pilatus trainers that have arrived will be painted in some garish scheme. I would rather have all the basic trainers made in switzerland than in HAL , the delivery will be quicker and we dont to hear excuses from HAL for some shoddy work. How do u rate the hawks being manufactured in HAL , up to the mark?. are there any BAE QA managers there.
racisim i thought so.But dont all western tourists treat thailand the same ?

rad said...

HI Prasun
I am shocked at iran`s flight of a stealth fighter , what ever it is ,it has stealth appearance . How on earth did they manage it ?.For a country that has not made a single aircraft this is too hard to believe at least my indian ego. My only explanation is the chinese did it for them , please explain and tell me it is not true!!!!!

Pinkal Shah said...

dear sir

i have been reading your blog recently and in one of your threads you had commented on UFO sightings near Indo-China border at ladakh and give referecnce to Hindu mythological scipture such as Mahabharat, etc
Would you pls give me some details such links or book from which i can get the details for reading

hoping for positive reply

thank you

Anonymous said...

What is the source of maps and PA Orbat table that you've put up? Is it possible to buy the same for self reference? Thanks

Umair Shah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Umair Shah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Umair Shah said...

Hi,

Do you have a high resolution picture of capt sher khan ?

can you post it or email ?

Regards

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