Elbit Systems Electro-optics Elop Ltd
(ELOP) on March 20 was awarded an approximately US$80 million contract for
supplying major elements of the vectronics suite for the 118 Arjun Mk1A main
battle tanks (MBT) that were ordered for the Indian Army last January. ELOP
will complete all deliveries by 2015. Each vectronics suite will include ELOP-supplied
Advanced laser warning & countermeasures system (ALWACS) and the commander’s
open-architecture panoramic sight (COAPS). The ALWACS will include four E-LWS
sensors that can detect, categorise and pinpoint laser sources, including
rangefinders, designators, beam-riders, and infra-red illuminators. E-LWS also
enables direction indication for all threats, as well as audio and visual
warnings. It is immune to reflection, gunfire, lightning, fire and
self-electro-optical operations. The other two components of ALWACS are an IR
jammer, and two 8-launcher aerosol smoke screening systems.
The COAPS is a dual axis stabilised
line-of-sight, remote-operated, periscopic system for independent target
acquisition, battlefield surveillance and main gun firing in a ‘hunter-killer’
auto-track mode. The COAPS will use a SAGEM-built Matis-STD thermal imager (to
be supplied to ELOP as customer-furnished equipment) that operates in the 3-5
micron bandwidth, while the gunner’s sight will employ a THALES-built
Catherine-FC thermal imager (to be supplied to ELOP as customer-furnished
equipment), operating in the 8-12 micron bandwidth. The COAPS will also house
an integrated Laser Target Tracker (LTT) for providing
fire-control solutions for the CLGM laser-guided anti-helicopter missile.
All in all, the Arjun Mk1A MBT, having a
per-unit cost of Rs34 crores, will feature 93 improvements, including 19 major
modifications, which will be introduced in two phases. In Phase-1, 45 Arjun
Mk1As will roll out with 56 upgrades, including the ALWAC S, COAPS, and CLGM-firing
capability. In Phase-2, the remaining 73 Arjun Mk1As, with all the 93
improvements, will be delivered.
Structurally, the major enhancement on the MBT
will be the fitment of High Energy Materials Research Laboratory-developed explosive
reactive armour (ERA) plates weighing a total of 1.5-tonnes on the glacis plate, as well as the front of the turret and the
sides protecting the driver’s compartment; fitment of a 1.5-tonne track-width mine
plough sourced from US-based Pearson Engineering (represented in India by BEML);
incorporation of a new 8kW auxiliary power unit (APU) developed by Indesys
Equipments Pvt Ltd; redesigned and bigger road wheels built by Sundaram Industries;
and Germany-based Diehl Remscheid’s DST 570V tracks, whose basic components
include the track links, sprocket wheels, guide wheels, running rollers,
support rollers, running pads, traction aids, connectors, bolts, mono
block-body with integral centre guide, rubberised track pads, and grouser.
To
be mounted on the turret will be a yet-to-be-selected remote controlled weapons
system containing a 12.7mm heavy machine gun. Finally, a mobile camouflage
system has been developed and integrated into the Arjun Mk1A in collaboration
with Sweden’s Barracuda Camouflage Ltd to reduce the MBT’s signature against
all known sensors and smart munitions.
As a result of all these add-ons, the
Arjun Mk1A’s fully loaded weight will be 67 tonnes. To cater to this weight
increase, the MBT’s Kirloskar-built hydropneumatic suspension systems has been
re-designed to cater for weights of up to 70 tonnes. Track-shedding problems
have been resolved by selecting the DST 570V tracks that will have an increased
horn length (19mm). The MTU 838 Ka-501 diesel engine and RENK’s RK-304S gearbox
(making up the powerpack) has been retained for the Arjun Mk1A. On the Arjun Mk1,
the final drive had catered to a top speed of 72kph. For the Arjun Mk1A, the
final drive has been enhanced by increasing the reduction ratio from 4.4 to 5.3,
while the top speed now stands at 58.5kph. In addition, the torque and the
force available at the contact between the track and the surface has been
increased which to cater for the MBT’s increased weight. However, despite the
increased weight, the Arjun Mk1A’s acceleration is better than the Arjun Mk1,
while fuel efficiency and the power-to-weight ratio of 23.9hp/tonne remain the
same. The DST 570V’s increased track-width will ensure that the ground pressure
(0.84kgf/cm2) remains the same in spite of the MBT’s increased weight.
What is significantly missing on the
Arjun Mk1A, however, is a slat-armour package to protect the Arjun Mk1A’s rear
section against rocket-propelled (RPG) attacks. By acting as a rigid barrier, slat-armour,
made of aluminium alloy, causes the RPG’s shaped-charge warhead (which uses a
shaped-explosion rather than kinetic energy) to explode at a relatively safe
distance.
To be selected in the near future is a
remotely-controlled weapons station, for which Israel Military Industries’ (IMI)
WAVE-300 was chosen, but had to be subsequently dropped due to IMI’s
blacklisting by the MoD last year. Shortlisted contenders for supplying the
RCWS include Elbit Systems’ ORCWS, RAFAEL’s Samson-30 and SAAB’s Trackfire.
The first Arjun Mk1A will roll off the MoD-owned and Avadi-based Heavy
Vehicles Factory (HVF) in July 2015, and enter service in early 2016. HVF will
annually produce 30 Arjun Mk1As, meaning the last such MBT will be delivered by
2019.
Being negotiated now is the production
of 40 BLT-Arjun armoured recovery vehicles, along with other specialised combat
engineering vehicles like 20 CMF-Arjuns and 20 full-width mine-ploughs mounted
on the hull of an Arjun (this being a turret vehicle). BLT-Arjun will be cantilevered over
chasms or across rivers to cover a distance of 26 metres with a width of 4 metres.
The BLT-Arjun will carry two halves of an all-composite (using multi-layered
multi-functional fibre-reinforced polymer) 26 metre-long MLC-70 single-span
bridge. At a wet or dry gap, the launcher will slide the two parts and dock
them to each other in such a way that the far end of the second half touches
the other bank. The BLT-Arjun will then cross the bridge, turn around, retrieve
the bridge after undocking its two halves, fold it and will be ready to move
with the armoured column.
The counter-mine flail, under
development since 2005, has been designed to clear safe 4.5-metre wide lane for
the passage of armoured vehicles and personnel by detonating anti-tank/anti-personnel
mines buried up to a depth of at least 30cm with the help of hydraulically-operated
hammers. The CMF-Arjun will have a series of 10kg hammers that will pulverise
mines by beating them at 400 revolutions a minute. Equipped with GPS and
periscope, the CMF-Arjun will also have a marking system, which, with the help
of LED poles, will mark safe lanes in the battle zone after having disabled the
mines laid by the enemy. Ideally, the turretless CMF-Arjun will also house a
7.62mm PKT machine gun, 12.7mm anti-aircraft gun and smoke grenade dispenser.
Finally, a mobile camouflage system has been developed and integrated into the Arjun Mk1A in collaboration with Sweden’s Barracuda Camouflage Ltd to reduce the vehicle’s signature against all known sensors and smart munitions.
Finally, a mobile camouflage system has been developed and integrated into the Arjun Mk1A in collaboration with Sweden’s Barracuda Camouflage Ltd to reduce the vehicle’s signature against all known sensors and smart munitions.
Also being evaluated now is
a proposal for upgrading up to 400 BMP-2K infantry combat vehicles (ICV) by
equipping them with a new-design turret housing up to four anti-armour
guided-missiles (like the CLGM), a 30mm cannon, a remote-controlled weapon
station housing a 30mm automatic grenade launcher, a COAPS, and a gunner’s
day/night sight making use of ELOP’s TISAS system.
+&+Mongoose+KE+round.jpg)
Arjun
Mk2 MBT
As I had stated in mid-2011, for all intents and purposes, the Arjun Mk2 MBT—currently under development since mid-2007—will be more expensive and have a higher imported content than its predecessor, the Arjun Mk1. But in terms of mobility, protection and firepower, the Mk2 variant will come closest to what Indian Army HQ wants: an MBT with highly enhanced crew protection and maximum survivability in high-intensity, fire-saturated combat environments. To achieve this, the CVRDE has roped in Cummins India and Elbit Systems, with the former being responsible for improving mobility and fuel consumption, and the latter for redesigning and modifying the MBT’s digital vectronics suite, gun-control system, survivability systems and air-conditioning hardware.
Work on developing
the Arjun Mk2 began in the second half of 2007 soon after joint R & D
contracts were inked between the CVRDE, Cummins India and Elbit Systems. On
October 31 that year, the CVRDE floated domestic and global expressions
of interest for the co-development of a 1,500hp compact high specific power
output diesel engine incorporating a state-of-the-art direct fuel injection
system, digital electronic controls, turbo-charging, charge air cooling, safety
controls and a pressurised multi-stage air-cleaning system; and for a hydro-kinetic automatic transmission with four
forward and two reverse gears. US-based Cummins, offering a customised QSK-38
liquid-cooled, direct-injection engine coupled to SESM of France’s ESM-500
automatic transmission. In late 2009, a combination of the QSK-38/ESM-500
powerpack was selected as the winner, following which Cummins India began
customising this powerpack design. The ESM-500, with five forward and two
reverse gears, contains a planetary gearbox with shifting, steering and braking
systems. It is also equipped with a hydrodynamic steering system, which allows
different turning radii depending on engine speed and selected gear. The
braking system contains of two stages. As a parking brake and for a speed of up
to 35kph air-cooled disk brakes are used. At higher speeds a retarder is used.
In addition, the transmission is equipped with a power takeoff for the cooling
fans of the powerpack. Also, a hydrokinetic retarder can slow the MBT down at a
decelleration rate of 7 metres/square second (0.7g), which can be very useful
at the last moment before it could be hit.
Supplementing this powerpack will be
an 8kW APU, which will provide power when the MBT is on ‘silent watch’ for
battery recharging and night observation, with full systems operating while the
main engine is shut down.
The Arjun Mk2’s turret will also house an integrated battle management system (BMS) designed by Elbit Systems (and licence-built by Bharat Electronics Ltd), which, like on the Arjun Mk1A, will provide rapid communications networking between the tactical tank commander and his subordinate units. It will enable the tank commander to plan missions, navigate, and continuously update situational awareness. The system will also record data for operational debriefing by using a digital data recorder, which will record and restore sight images and observation data collected during missions. This data can be shared with other elements, using the same network with the BMS, to report enemy targets.
The Arjun Mk2’s turret-mounted autoloader (also being developed indigenously) will be able to load the 120mm rifled-bore main gun from a fully automated, fire-proof magazine, which will accommodate up to 10 ready rounds and deliver up to four types of ammunition types to the loader. In addition to APFSDS and hyperbaric rounds, the Arjun Mk2 will make use of indigenously developed APAM munitions designed to neutralise—especially in urban built-up terrain—tank-killer squads lurking with lethal anti-tank weapons. The APAM will use the proven concept of anti-personnel munitions based on controlled fragmentation. It will deploy sub-munition shrapnel at defined intervals, covering a wide lethal area against soft targets. Each fragment is shaped to have enough kinetic energy to penetrate conventional body armour, or other materials.
For improving crew comfort, the Arjun Mk2 will incorporate an Elbit Systems-supplied individual crew and equipment cooling system (ICECS), while will provide cooled and dried air from a special air conditioner to air-cooled overalls or vests. The air will naturally cool the upper torso of each crewman. Also being acquired from Elbit through a transfer-of-technology agreement for the MBT crew are regular/fire-resistant air-cooled overalls, NBC protected air-cooled overalls, and air-cooled compact vests.
Looking
To The Future
From the above, it is evident that the
Arjun Mk1A MBT was developed in a hurry and therefore certain avoidable
compromises were made. For instance, It is obvious that instead of
accommodating a 1.5-tonne ERA package for very limited protection-levels, it
would have been far better if an active protection system (APS) weighing no
more than 850kg was adopted, which would at least have given the MBT 360-degree
protection. To this end, either RAFAEL Advanced Defence Systems’ Trophy HV (ASPRO-A)
system, using 8ELTA System’s EL/M 2133 WindGuard flat-panel radar (four units)
and RAFAEL’s multiple explosive-formed penetrators (MEFP), or Saab’s LEDS-150 systems
(using Mongoose KE rounds and already selected for the Indian Army’s first 310 imported
T-90S MBTs to be subjected to a mid-life upgrade) ought to have been evaluated
for a final
selection process.
Similarly, a slat-armour package to protect the Arjun Mk1A’s rear section
(housing the powerpack compartment plus the twin external fuel tanks) ought to
have been adopted.
+&+Mongoose+KE+round.jpg)
Other avoidable options were the
installation of COAPS and the acquisition of CLGM-firing capability. Instead, the
Arjun Mk1A could easily have been equipped IRDE-developed and BEL-built
commander’s panoramic sight, which is now undergoing user-trials and was
originally developed for the T-90S. The IRDE-developed and BEL-built
commander’s panoramic sight (which houses a SAGEM-built MATIS-STD thermal
imager operating in the 3-5 micron bandwidth), would have resulted in enhanced
static visibility levels for both the gunner and commander.
As I had stated in mid-2011, for all intents and purposes, the Arjun Mk2 MBT—currently under development since mid-2007—will be more expensive and have a higher imported content than its predecessor, the Arjun Mk1. But in terms of mobility, protection and firepower, the Mk2 variant will come closest to what Indian Army HQ wants: an MBT with highly enhanced crew protection and maximum survivability in high-intensity, fire-saturated combat environments. To achieve this, the CVRDE has roped in Cummins India and Elbit Systems, with the former being responsible for improving mobility and fuel consumption, and the latter for redesigning and modifying the MBT’s digital vectronics suite, gun-control system, survivability systems and air-conditioning hardware.
For ensuring MBT survivability, the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL)e—located in Kanchanbagh, Hyderabad—has developed a Mk2 variant of
its Kanchan modular armour, which was made by sandwiching composite panels (ceramic, alumina, fibre-glass and nickel-alloy) between rolled homogenous armour (RHA) plates to defeat APFDS
or HEAT rounds. Also developed for the Arjun Mk2 is an appliqué co-cured
composites integral armour (CIA) package (for the frontal turret and hull-sides
flanking the driver’s compartment), which comprises ceramic tiles and rubber
sandwiched between two FRP composites layers. While the outer FRP composite
layer acts as a cover and provides confinement, the ceramic layer provides primary
protection against ballistic impact, and the inner FRP composite layer acts as
the structural part as well as secondary energy absorbing mechanism. The rubber
layer isolates stiff and brittle ceramic tiles from structural member.
The Arjun Mk2 will do away with the
existing electro-hydraulic turret control system (which is susceptible to
impact damage and can cause a fire hazard) and will instead use a totally electronic
modular electric gun and turret drive stabilisation (EGTDS) system supplied by
Elbit Systems. The EGTDS uses azimuth/elevation motor drives with extremely
rapid response time, low-voltage power, stabilised modes of operation, and
manual back-up drives in both elevation and traverse. A digital servo-gun/turret
drive stabilisation system will be employed for isolating the gun platform from
the effects of vehicle pitch, roll, yaw and jolt as the MBT manouevres and
fires at the same time. Additionally, the gun-laying drives are electric
powered for high-precision first-round hit probability while on the move. A motor drive-control unit will transform the power supply
into two 3-phase systems. These will supply and control the servo motors for
alignment, stabilisation and slave mode of the turret/weapon according to the
input signals of the sensors, control handles and active sight. The EGTDS will
ensure smooth target-tracking at all speeds for very heavy turrets and guns and
at extreme turret gun positions, while low power
consumption will lead to low infra-red signature as well as low-noise levels. The Arjun Mk2’s turret will also house an integrated battle management system (BMS) designed by Elbit Systems (and licence-built by Bharat Electronics Ltd), which, like on the Arjun Mk1A, will provide rapid communications networking between the tactical tank commander and his subordinate units. It will enable the tank commander to plan missions, navigate, and continuously update situational awareness. The system will also record data for operational debriefing by using a digital data recorder, which will record and restore sight images and observation data collected during missions. This data can be shared with other elements, using the same network with the BMS, to report enemy targets.
The Arjun Mk2’s turret-mounted autoloader (also being developed indigenously) will be able to load the 120mm rifled-bore main gun from a fully automated, fire-proof magazine, which will accommodate up to 10 ready rounds and deliver up to four types of ammunition types to the loader. In addition to APFSDS and hyperbaric rounds, the Arjun Mk2 will make use of indigenously developed APAM munitions designed to neutralise—especially in urban built-up terrain—tank-killer squads lurking with lethal anti-tank weapons. The APAM will use the proven concept of anti-personnel munitions based on controlled fragmentation. It will deploy sub-munition shrapnel at defined intervals, covering a wide lethal area against soft targets. Each fragment is shaped to have enough kinetic energy to penetrate conventional body armour, or other materials.
For improving crew comfort, the Arjun Mk2 will incorporate an Elbit Systems-supplied individual crew and equipment cooling system (ICECS), while will provide cooled and dried air from a special air conditioner to air-cooled overalls or vests. The air will naturally cool the upper torso of each crewman. Also being acquired from Elbit through a transfer-of-technology agreement for the MBT crew are regular/fire-resistant air-cooled overalls, NBC protected air-cooled overalls, and air-cooled compact vests.
As per Indian Army HQ’s present plans,
by late 2015, it plans to place firm orders for 500 Arjun Mk2s,
plus 80 BLT-Arjun Mk2s. At the same
time, in my personal view, the hulls of at least 800 existing T-72M1982s should
each be retrofitted with a Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant-built 1,200hp V-92S2
diesel engine (Ukraine has already offered its 1,200hp 6TD-2 engine), while an 8kW
auxiliary power unit will provide back-up electric power when the engine is
idling. Concurrently, these re-engined T-72M1982s should be retrofitted with
the turret of the Arjun Mk2 (i.e. a re-engineered TANK-EX) so that the final
product does not weigh more than 49 tonnes and has a power-to-weight ratio of 21hp/tonne
and ground pressure of 0.94kgf/cm2.
Arjun
Mk3 FMBT
Both the CVRDE and Indian Army HQ know
only too well that the latter’s projected future MBT (FMBT)—contrary to
weighing less than 50 tonnes as earlier envisaged—will ultimately weigh close
to 70 tonnes even without the TWMP add-on. That being the case, the best option
then is to authorise Cummins India to develop a 1,800hp version of the QSK-38
diesel engine by 2017, while the CVRDE concentrates on developing an indigenous
automatic transmission. Ukraine, incidentally, has already offered its 1,800hp 6TD-5
diesel engine for the FMBT. Other essential design and performance criteria of
the FMBT ought to be as follows:
The Arjun Mk3 MBT, like the Arjun Mk2, should have a three-man crew complement.
Its powerpack should include either an overdrive mode for facilitating acceleration from zero to full power in 2.8 seconds.
Its digitised vectronics suite—comprising the hunter-killer fire-control system, radar/laser warning system, CIFF transponder, APS, BMS, software-defined radio communications suite, health and usage monitoring system incorporating on-board diagnostics and maintenance log-book modes, multi-spectral decoy/camouflage generation system, APS, and the all-electric turret traverse/stabilisation system—should be integrated with a MIL-STD-1553B digital databus.
The principal armament of the FMBT should be a 55-calibre 120mm smoothbore cannon firing APAM and APFSDS rounds.
158 comments:
Is FICV cancelled ???
"What is significantly missing on the Arjun Mk1A, however, is a slat-armour package to protect the Arjun Mk1A’s rear section against rocket-propelled (RPG) attacks."
Why would they miss such a thing ? Could we use APS for this ?
"Structurally, the major enhancement on the MBT will be the fitment of High Energy Materials Research Laboratory-developed explosive reactive armour (ERA) plates weighing a total of 1.5-tonnes on the glacis plate, as well as the front of the turret and the sides protecting the driver’s compartment"
Is it just me or we shouldn't have added this weight? Instead we should work on next generation APS.
What are we doing with respect to APC procurement ? Are we gonna procure it or gonna build it. Tata has already showcased the
India’s futuristic soldier to be ready in three years
" http://idrw.org/?p=20029 "
What is this ? Also why is IA in so much hurry to procure carbines and assault rifles ? Why aren't they waiting for drdo to complete what they are building ? I mean latest insas is doing fine and IA has deficiency in every field, why don't they plug them ?
Just don't understand why the IRON FIST is missing?? I really hope they would add an standoff cage armour in an URBAN WARFARE UPGRADE soon. By the way what type of a countermeasures can aircrafts/helos deploy against laser beam riders except of defensive maneuvering sir???
Prasun sir
is combat improved ajeya is really a good upgrade for t72 monkey model tank,after this upgrade on t 72 can we compare this tank with chinese as well as pakistani mbt....
HI Prasun
Pse explain the sms sending and receiving capability of the chinese bediou GPS system . How is it possible for a hand held gps device to send an sms to a high flying sat.
why cant we adapt the lahat version of the missile we make to an IIR type with the help of israel if we find the nag to be to heavy to be airborne.
HI Prasun
I feel equipping the arjun with all this vectronics is going to be useless without an active protection system , Is the saab LEDS or the rafael trophy going on board?.
There seems to be no talk of this all important system
Is china buying su 35?
www.defensenews.com/article/20121125/DEFREG03/311250003/Is-China-Buying-Russia-8217-s-Su-35-Fighter-?odyssey=nav|head
Hi Prasun ,In your thread on selection of Dassault Rafale by IAF , you had mentioned that Snecma is developing a 20000lb variant of M88 which requires the air-intakes to be increased by 1.5 inch or cm. this became a hurdle in negotiations with UAE.
Regarding conformal AESA on wing leading ages I am talking about extra radar arrays like L- band AESA arrays of Super Su-30 which will help to increase its detection range and give Rafale a WFOV.
A bigger aperture radar also emits more effective power and gives the ac a longer detection and tracking range in BVR combat and in SAR. So a bigger AESA is always better . E-CAPTOR, Vixen -1000 E radar apertures are considerably larger than that of Rafale.
Eurofighter world magazine have for more than once criticised Rafale for its smaller nose and hence a small aperture radar and low thrust engines compared to Typhoon.
When fresh financial bids are made after 31st March , will EADS also submit bid for EF typhoon . If Typhoon now is found to be cheaper will IAF go for Typhoon ?
Does Arjun mk1a has Kanchan mk2 composite armour ?
Is it possible to augment the MBT production capacities of HVF Avadi or any other OFB ?
is it true that the LAC is being delayed till 2015 now?
Do you realise that the f-17 accoss the border will be at block III by then? Why cant we follow the same path of developing blocks ratherthan getting the perfect machine? or are there some really serious issues that are stopping us doing the same?
An outstanding article. Hope after this there should be no confusion as to what Arjun-Mk1A should be.
BTW the Arjun-Mk1A is having better acceleration, but regarding its maximum road speed of 58.5 Km/hr, is it not somewhat slower.
To Anon@7.47AM: FICV isn’t cancelled, it’s just been postponed due to the MoD’s stupidity. Once the MBT mounts ERA tiles, then slat armour too is necessary for protecting the MBT’s rear. The other option is to do away with ERA tiles & SLAT armour & instead go for an APS suite.
To ACCIDENTAL LOSER: Yes, APS suite like LEDS-150 would have been a much better alternative to the ERA tiles. There are no known countermeasures against laser beam-riders except a laser warning receiver & defensive manoeuvres.
To ASHI JAIN: T-72 Combat Improved Ajeya was an interim solution for the late 1990s & is obsolete by today’s standards.
To RAD: Haven’t come across this capability for any of the Beidou GPS satellites. The laser-guided CLGM is more than good enough for going on board attack helicopters & helicopter gunships as well as on LUHs. For Arjun Mk1A there will be no APS due to the incorporation of ERA tiles, which I believe is a terribly wrong decision. The LEDS-150 from Saab would be an ideal choice for Arjun Mk1A.
To Anon@7.56PM: This was known in 2011 itself.
To AK: The principal hurdle of the UAE Rafale deal was the cost factor & France’s reluctance to make the UAE a risk-sharing financial investor in the Rafale project. Each successive tranche of the Rafale has undergone slight structural modifications & therefore the model selected by the IAF will indeed incorporate the modified air-intakes & higher-thrust M88 turbofan. The IAF-specific Rafales won’t have any L-band distributed AESA apertures, but such add-ons can definitely go on board the Rafale’s future mid-life upgrades. For the IAF’s Rafales, at least two successive mid-life upgrades have been prescribed. The antenna apertures of the RBE-2, Vixen-1000 & Captor-E are all more of less the same. The EF-2000’s nose-section was originally designed to accommodate the ECR-90 MMR & hence the bigger size of the nose diameter. Eurofighter GmBH has already formally accepted defeat in the M-MRCA competition & therefore the issue of its submission of an unsolicited bid does not arise. The EF-2000 Eurofighter will never be cheaper than the Rafale due to the nature of its four-nation industrial consortium, a fact recognized & admitted by the UK’s Audit Office. Arjun Mk1A does have integral composite armour. It is always possible to ramp up production of Arjun Mk1A MBTs at HVF.
To Anon@1.03AM: LAC or LCA? JF-17 will remain just as it is even by 2015. Only air-to-ground modes & maritime strike modes will be added to the fire-control system.
To Mr.RA 13: The cross-country speed is quite good, since the IA’s armoured warfare philosophy does not call for sprinting ahead deep into enemy territory. At most, the IA’s MBTs will be required to advance no more than 30km into enemy territory under the ever-present nuclear overhang. Secondly, the Arjun Mk1A MBTs will be able to fire-while-manoeuvring only when the MBT is travelling at some 20kph. Under such circumstances, a top speed of 58.5kph is quite good. Kindly also note the other logistics-support variants of Arjun like BLT-Arjun & CMF-Arjun that will be ordered in appreciable quantities in the near future as well—an elementary fact gone totally unnoticed thus far by the ‘desi’ print/electronic media.
hello..prasun ammunition storage capacity of arjun tank is very poor only 39 rounds ,while challenger & merkeva tanks generally carry more than 50 rounds what's ur opinion about this ?
Hi Prasun
Leaving out the active protection system would b a great mistake , but there were article before claiming that the saab LEDS was short listed?
what is the display system that is depicted below the VHF Hopper radio for ?. is it a BMS display , Inidan or Israeli?.
Is it possible to lase the laser designator optics of the enemy so as to jam them .
Interesting read:
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-03-24/news/37981324_1_cyber-defence-cyber-warfare-cyber-prowess
Did MI really break into American embassy? Is Indian Govt. really doing enough as mentioned in the article?
your comments please.
Thanks
Swarop
To AKASH KS: You’re absolutely right, & that applies to both the Arjun & T-90S MBTs, because both these MBTs have been turned into ‘jack-of-all-trades’ MBTs by enabling them to carry guided anti-helicopter rounds, which results in a lesser amount of APFSDS rounds being carried & in future the IA wants such MBTs to harry hyperbaric rounds (for bunker-bursting), which will result in an even lesser number of APFSDS rounds being carried. In my view, this is a serious mistake, since any MBTs main job must be to destroy hostile MBTs, & not hostile LUHs, attack helicopters or hardened bunkers. In future battlefields, the IA will have at its disposal RDH/LUH platforms & Rudra helicopter gunships armed with Mistral-ATAM air-to-air missiles to seek & knock out hostile attack helicopters & LUHs, while long-range 155m & field artillery assets MBRLs will be more than enough for neutralising hostile dug-in infantry emplacements.
To RAD: Saab’s LEDS-150 APS was shortlisted for the first 310 T-90S MBTs bought more than a decade ago that are now long overdue for their mid-life upgrade, while IMI’s Iron First APS was meant for the Arjun MBT. The display is for the BMS terminal & it is an ELBIT Systems-designed unit that is licence-assembled by BEL. It is possible to dazzle hostile laser designation sensors but that requires a separate ‘dazzler’ generator.
To SPANKY’s BLOG/SWAROP: The article is correct as far as the event is concerned. However, it wasn’t the IA’s MI Directorate that was involved, but the DIA under HQ IDS. The cyber warfare capabilities of the armed forces are still very inadequate in terms of skilled human resources availability. The situation is more like ‘islands of excellence’ within a ‘sea of mediocrity’.
thanks prasun
you have any information about operation done by,DIA under HQ IDS
http://idrw.org/?p=20070#more-20070
Does it make more sense to tie up with Italy?
Request you for your assessment of the same.
Thanks Prasun!!!!
Do you think Indian Armed Forces should have a separate arm for cyber warfare. Like army , navy and airforce there could be cyberforce headed by a four star general.
Also Is NTRO aggressively recruiting hackers like the American NSA does?
Thanks
Swarop
To Anon@8.41PM: Yes.
To Anon@8.53PM: Such a policy of the MoD is shortsighted & tantamount to practices followed during the days of the ‘licence raj’ & providing only a single tap (NIRDESH) from which skilled human resources ought to flow out. A far better practice would be to authorise all shipbuilders from both private-sector & public sector to team up on their own with warship design institutions from around the world, be it from Russia, Germany, The Netherlands, France, the UK, the US, Spain, South Korea, etc, & authorising these Indian shipyards to mentor academic faculties devoted to naval architecture & allied subjects among various universities throughout India.
To SPANKY’s BLOG/SWAROP: There’s no need for a separate integrated cyber warfare arm, but just cyber warfare cells belonging to each of the three armed forces. The bulk of the human resources reqd for such cells should typically be either part-time reservists (i.e. civilians) or those civilians who are given honorary commissions within the Territorial Army, since cyber warfare engagement is not exactly a 24/7 job. However, agencies like NTRO do need a dedicated 27/7 pool of cyber warriors. But its recruitment patterns have yet to mimmick those of the US’ NSA.
sir recently narendra modi mentioned that he envisions india as one of chief arms exporter in the world ... so the need for starting defence engineering courses (which he said he started in guj)... do you think its possible in future if mainstream politicians actually take this seriously.... at least it will reduce imports and provides employment...i may not agree everything in NaMo but atleast his vision is good ... please comment ..VMT in advance
Then please provide some information about DIA operation.
To SANDEEP KV: Starting defence engineering courses will only tantamount to ‘arming without aiming’, or putting the cart before the horse, as I’ve repeatedly stated. What is reqd first & foremost is to find answers for the core questions: what exactly is required by India’s armed forces for their force modernisation over the next 15 years & what's the consequent military-industrial roadmap required to achieve the procurement objectives? Without such a roadmap, no military-industrial complex anywhere in the world will be able to produce tangible results & no academic institutiob will be able to tutor & mentor the reqd skilled human resources. Immediately after May 1998, when it was evident that the days of waging all-out conventional warfare had become a thing of the past, the MoD should have initiated a ‘Strategic Defence Review’ aimed at defining India’s future national security & military postures, which in turn should have led to new combined services warfighting doctrines being drafted & approved, following which the respective armed services should have drafted their long-term force modernisation roadmaps & related weapons procurement priorities. Only if all this was done in a sequential manner would it have been possible to enlist the financial & human resources support of the country’s private & public sectors & the DRDO in terms of coming up with indigenous solutions, especially those requiring bulk production. This should have been followed by the MoD & Union MoF playing facilitating roles to enable the DPSUs & private-sector firms to engage in mergers & acquisitions with those foreign companies that were available for sale. Had all this been done, along with structural reforms within the MoD aimed at ensuring a level playing field between the country’s private & public sectors, then even SMEs would have been assured of a captive market & they would therefore have felt confident in applying for loans from Indian financial institutions or for issuing IPOs for raising funds from the global capital markets for the sake of financing their in-house R & D & product innovations. All this is not happening & will not happen for as long as the chronological/sequential steps I’ve outlined above are not implemented.
Therefore, rather than commence defence engineering courses, what needs to be initiated is the commencement on courses on the subject of ‘Strategic Visioning’ at a very early stage in schools & colleges, similar to how China teaches all its citizens the virtues of the legendary Chinese strategist Zhuge Liang’s ’36 Stratagems’.
To Anon@11.36PM: That I cannot. Am bound by NCND regulations.
Sir, What happened to the plans of upgrading the whole fleet of T-90S to T-90AM ? Any progess in this field ?
There were also news of purchasing 348 T-90 tanks from Russia. What happenedto it ?
Is IA interested in BMP-3 ?
What is the cannon of Arjun mk1 ?
at least provide some linlk,if you can't say your story
sir wat abt the long range mbrl being developd?when it ll frutify?and recent order of 1500 crore INR is for pinaka mk1 or mk2?
To Anon@12.04AM: The plan was not to upgrade all existing T-90S MBTs to T-90AM standard. Instead, the plan was to upgrade the first 310 T-90S MBTs, details of which are available at: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/06/clearing-mist-on-indias-small-turbofan.html
Then there was the plan on paper for importing 348 T-90AMs, but that plan has now been scrapped in favour of ordering more Arjun Mk1As (at least 300 more). This policy decision will be announced later this year by the MoD. The BMP-3 ICV was being offered for use in conjunction with the two Arjun Mk1 & two Arjun Mk1A MBT Regiments, & the proposal is still under consideration. All Arjuns are armed with the ARDE-developed 120mm rifled-bore cannon.
To Anon@12.18PM: What link? There’s nothing mentioned in cyberspace as yet about such stories.
To Anon@12.22AM: 60km-range Pinaka-2 will enter series-production by 2015 at the earliest. Recent orders for 20,000 rounds is for Pinaka-1.
Hey parsun is Arjun mk1a the same as Arjun more that we had heard about last year that was starting triAl...it just! Seems unreal as the design of armor is just a copy of t90 and just cheaply done... Almost done incomplete
To Anon@1.12AM: This is exactly what happens when the end-user (Indian Army) wants the impossible, i.e. a ‘jack-of-all-trades MBT’. For instance, the TWMF and FWMP are clearly not reqd at all times & these mine-ploughs can easily be mounted on specialist combat engineering armoured vehicles that are an integral part of an armoured formation. Similarly, use of ERA tiles should have been discarded in favour of lighter, add-on composite ceramic-based modular armour & an active protection system (APS). If at all one still persisted with the usage of APS & ERA tiles, then a slat-armour package should have been added to protect the Arjun Mk1A’s rear section (housing the powerpack as well as the two external fuel tanks) against RPG attacks. Right now, as things stand, both the Arjun Mk1’s & Mk1A’s rear sections are highly vulnerable to RPG attacks & well as straffing by combat aircraft.
With IMI being un-blacklisted is the WAVE-300 RCWS not back in the fray or cannot it not be ordered without SAAB and RAFAEL bidding now IMI is back on the scene?
Will the RCWS bidding/selection be done by the time the MK1As enter service? ie will the RCWS come with the MK1As or will they be fitted after MK1As are already in service?
And what Active protection system (APS) will be coming with the MK2 IRON FIST or Trophy?
Why is the MK1A not coming with an APS?
When will APS be fitted on the T-90S and Arjun MBTs?
To KSINGH: When was IMI un-blacklisted? The bidding for both RCWS & APS is still underway and the TROPHY & LEDS-150 are the top contenders. But most likely the follow-on tranche of 300 Arjun Mk1As & even the Arjun Mk2 FMBTs will be the first ones to have APS as standard fit. Fitment of LEDS-150 on T-90S is overdue & was tested on the T-90S in late 2008.
Prasun, you are the one who said that IMI would soon be un-blacklisted:
Finally Sanity Prevails! MoD Decides Not To Blacklist Any More OEMs
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/finally-sanity-prevails-mod-decides-not.html
"It is now believed that blacklistings enforced for the past decade will also be lifted, albeit without any official announcement, with just an official confidential notification being sent by the MoD directly to all the blacklisted OEMs about the discontinuance of their respective blacklistings."
Is it feasible to fit in a miniature IRST in the place of FLIR in attack helicopters. If yes please explain it's operational advantages in the case of LCH ?? By the way how the gunships of army would face & defeat the RBS-70NG VSHORADS in a future face off ??
Dear Prasun da,
Just for my curiosity, I observed from your earlier blog : Clearing The Mist, that a lot of Mig's were decommissioned in phases after their valuable life span from the IAF inventory. Maybe silly to ask but what happens to these fighter jets after they are removed from active service. I mean to ask the possible options followed by all nations after such decommission and compared to that what IAF or MOD follows..
Best Regards.
To KSINGH: I had never said anything about IMI’s un-blacklisting. That is your interpretation. The term “blacklistings enforced for the past decade” means only those companies that were blacklisted 10 years ago would henceforth be removed from the blacklisting, since the MoD’s policy guidelines clearly state that a company can be blacklisted for only a 10-year period. IMI was blacklisted only last year & therefore IMI will have to stay out of India till 2021.
To ACCIDENTAL LOSER: Of course it can be done. But the IRST is still an evolving system in terms of imagery magnification options & target auto-tracking features, which have still to be incorporated on an IRST sensor. On the FLIR turret, such features are now standard. For neutralising the threats posed by laser-guided MANPADS, the only available defensive aid is the laser warner. After being warned about hostile laser illumination, all that an aircraft or helicopter can do is duck in order to stay away from the field-of-view of the laser illuminator. But on high-value platforms like heavylift helicopters or VVIP transportation helicopters, DIRCM can be incorporated.
To RJDP: Once such aircraft are decommissioned, they’re regarded as scrap materials & are therefore stripped of their electronics & mission sensors and all metallic components & sub-structures are sold to scrap-dealers. Only those aircraft that are earmarked for storage in museums or to grace the entrances of air force stations or their roundabouts will have their airframes repainted, but will be minus their engines, avionics & instrumentation.
@Prasun da
In the last thread you said 'Therefore, against China the only credible, survivable retaliatory capability will come in the form of S-5, S-6 & S-7 SSBNs each armed with 12 SLBMs (like the K-4 to be developed in future) having a range between 4,500km & 6,500km. That then leaves the S-2, S-3 & S-4 submarines free for carrying Nirbhay SLCMs & BrahMos-1s.' does it mean B05 will remain a demo project ?
2. you say it will be cost prohibitive to add Brahmos VLS module in S80/Super Scopene, lets just say if at all like Arjun project IN wants a Jack of all P75I sub & make it fire VLS brahmos; how many subs you think should be built to make redesigned P75I project viable,
i say 15, if so the sub count of IN will touch about 40
3. in reply to @AkashKS You say IA wants Jack of all Arjun tank, i believe not all tanks will have all the facility or even if they do wont use it & limit them to anti tank job, BTW can the ammo capacity be raised?
Prasun Sir,
VMT for the didactic nature of your replies which address all possible concerns.
I had earlier asked you about Point 5353 which is still under the control of the PA. Your answer had predictably cleared all my queries. Now I just found out that Dalu Nag, Saddle ridge and Bunker ridge are also allegedly under PA control. Is that true? Are all these other points also situated on the LOC or are they within Indian territory?
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/army/kargil/images/map1.JPG This link is for a map which shows the areas which were occupied by the PA, it also shows some areas which were taken over by the IA on the other side. Do we still retain Point 4251 and 4875 which we had taken over from the other side.
Why there is nothing in cyberspace about DIA any way people who don't know anything about this things are common man like me,in intelligence world every one know each other and what is other are doing.Then why they are not giving out operation they did some years back
So I guess there is no mark 2 arjun
Hi Prasun,
INS Kiltan was launched today at GRSE. Looks like it differs substantially from the earlier two P-28s. IN ordered these in batches of 4 some time back. Wouldn't it have been logical for grse to do significant changes only in the followup order? Or do we blame the naval design board for this?
As per which stratagem, Bilaval Bhutto has retreated from pakistan the 666.
from SANDEEP KV: sir thanks for detailed comment regarding need for STRATEGIC PLANNING , i hope we will start at least now in this direction, but I believe unless there is NATION WIDE CAMPAIGN,JAIL BHARO,JINGOISTIC NEWS PRESENTATIONS,HUNGER STRIKE regarding the need for STRATEGIC PLANNING not a single hay is going to move .I dont think our political leaders and policy makers(do we have one in INDIA) have paid at least single visit this invaluable blog.THE BIG QUESTION IS WHO WILL START THIS CHANGE...PLEASE TRY TO ANSWER VMT in advance...
Hi Prasun,
What do you call a tactical radar performance evaluation without an I&Q(in-phase and quadrature-phase ) injector?
Thanks,
Akhil
HI Prasun
Can you post some schematic pics of the sudharshan glide bomb or theone with rocket boost.
I reckon this is a quote of the day and possible century! "The situation is more like ‘islands of excellence’ within a ‘sea of mediocrity’. Bravo. This applies not just to India but almost every bureaucracy and public sector which si very sad.
oseybru 13roptolol 151Dear Prasun,
If Arjun Mk1A has been an upgraded version of Mk1 with 93 modifications, what other modifications are going to be incorporated into Mark2? Is Arjun Mk2 on the design board?
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Here are the answers:
1) Indeed, B-05/K-15 is just a technology demonstrator, enabling India t first crawl before walking as far as SLBM technologies go. One still has a long way to go master the art of walking, jogging, running & finally sprinting.
2) The cost escalations of a prohibitive nature are not connected with achieving economies of production-scales, but are all of the non-recurring type. For instance, the S-80 SSK design as it now exists does not incorporate an AIP plug-in. Therefore, for a Stirling Engine-based AIP plug-in to be designed & fabricated, extra R & D costs will have to be factored in. On top of this is the cost of designing & fabricating yet another plug-in for housing the eight-cell VLS for BrahMos-1. Then the entire SSK, inclusive of these two plug-ins, will have to be extensively sea-trialled before pronouncing the entire design as being a validated one. All in all, this process will consume six valuable years at least, & the IN can’t wait that long for Project 75I to takeoff.
3) As per present-day estimates, the IN will require at least 12 AIP-equipped S-80 SSKs.
4) The only way to increase the internal ammunition stowage capacity of Arjun M k1A is to let go of something, i.e. the CLGMs. None of the world’s major MBTs (barring those coming from Russia & Ukraine) have on-board anti-helicopter guided-missiles & there’s no need therefore for the IA’s Arjun Mk1As to have them on board as well at a time when the IA already has firm plans for acquiring RSHs & Dhruv helicopter-gunships armed with Mistral-ATAM AAMs.
To Anon@6.32PM: Those maps were contained in a book written on OP BADR by Dr Shireen Mazari, who is presently aligned to Imran Khan’s PTI party & who was earlier a decade ago aligned with Pakistan’s military establishment. Your best bet for obtaining all the data you seek will be to read up the book written by Capt (ret’d) Amarinder Singh, called A RIDGE TOO FAR.
To Anon@7.30PM: There’s a time & place earmarked for the release of such data. It’s not up to you or me to sit in judgement on when & where such data ought to be released.
To Anon@9.40PM: There’s indeed going to be an Arjun Mk2 MBT powered by a 1,500hp powerpack, AND an Arjun Mk3 MBT powered by a 1,800hp powerpack. Will upload the concluding part of my narrative above tonight & everything will become crystal-clear.
To SANJEEV K: The last two of the four Project 28 ASWCs incorporate several structures & sub-structures built of composites that were imported from Kockums AB of Sweden. This is because the first two ASWCs are heavier than originally planned for, thanks to some mis-calculations by the IN’s Directorate of Naval Design. That’s why the launch of INS Kiltan was deferred from last May to yesterday.
To Mr.RA 13: Internal family feuds are inevitable within an existing feudal-based decision-making hierarchy & this is the end-result of one such feud.
To SANDEEP K V: Nothing of that sort will ever be of any help. What is required instead is a nationwide debate on what kind of qualities are expected out of a national leadership.
To AKHIL SURI: You will have to contextualise that query so that anyone, not just me, can provide possible answers.
To RAD: I don’t possess such pictures or diagrams as yet.
To PIERRE ZORIN: VMT. The challenge now is to convert all the existing islands of excellence into a string of pearls so as to leverage the advantages possessed by each such island.
To SNTATA: There’s indeed going to be an Arjun Mk2 MBT powered by a 1,500hp powerpack, AND an Arjun Mk3 MBT powered by a 1,800hp powerpack. Will upload the concluding part of my narrative above tonight & everything will become crystal-clear.
PrasunDa,
The HINDU is reporting that India planning to tie up with Russia in naval ship-building field
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/india-planning-to-tie-up-with-russia-in-naval-shipbuilding-field/article4546931.ece
Any credibility in this report ?
Thank You
Sujoy
To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Yes, it's true & I had replied to a similar query above two days ago. Such a policy of the MoD is shortsighted & tantamount to practices followed during the days of the ‘licence raj’ & providing only a single tap (NIRDESH) from which skilled human resources ought to flow out. A far better practice would be to authorise all shipbuilders from both private-sector & public sector to team up on their own with warship design institutions from around the world, be it from Russia, Germany, The Netherlands, France, the UK, the US, Spain, South Korea, etc, & authorising these Indian shipyards to mentor academic faculties devoted to naval architecture & allied subjects among various universities throughout India.
Dear Prasun,
"In a major step towards indigenisation and making the Navy self-reliant, the third anti-submarine warfare (ASW) corvette, designed under the ambitious Project-28 (P-28) by the Navy’s Directorate of Naval Design, was launched in Kolkata on Tuesday."
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=19996
First fully indigenous Naval Fighter ship. The Navy appears to be very good at indigenisation.
Prasunda,
1. How many Pinaka regiments does IA have ? Is it really 10-12 regiments ?
2. What is the number of MBRLs in PLA service ? Read somewhere that they have around 2500 MBRLs including 122 mm ones. How true is this ?
Thank You PrasunDa .
BTW - A recent article on US doctrine pertaining to reducing tank weight . Please read in case you haven't read earlier
http://defensetech.org/2013/02/22/tardec-army-must-re-think-doctrine-to-cut-vehicle-weights/?comp=1198882887570&rank=4
-Sujoy
To SNTATA: You mean this news-report: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/third-antisubmarine-warfare-corvette-launched-in-kolkata/article4551845.ece
All right, now examine the claims of “with nearly 90% indigenisation content”. Such a statement, unless its context is clarified, is highly misleading, to say the least. For, when blurting out data on weapon systems or platforms, it must be clearly indicated whether the percentage of claimed indigenisation is by weight, by volume, by cost, or by technological content. Now, let’s go by undeniable facts about the imported content of each P-28 ASWC & then you be the judge of whether the quoted claim of ‘nearly 90% indigenisation content’ is true or false.
1) SEMT Pielstick 16 PA6 STC diesel engines from France that are licence-assembled by Kirloskar.
2) Integrated platform management system and battle damage control system supplied by Canada-based L-3 MAPPS.
3) The Italian OTO Melara 76mm/62-calibre Super Rapid Gun Mount, or SRGM, which is licence-assembled by the Hardwar-based facility of Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd.
4) Tulamashzavod JSC-built A-213-Vympel-A point defence system comprising twin AK-630M 30mm guns, MR-123-02 fire-control radar and SP-521 optronic tracker, all imported off-the-shelf from Russia.
5) DCNS-supplied Propulsion Power Transmission Systems.
6) 90 tonnes of fibre-reinforced composites imported directly from Kockums AB.
Furthermore, after the programme for building three Project 16A Brahmaputra-class FFGs, the construction of these four Project 28 ASWCs has been the second-longest running programme as far as indigenous warship-building goes. For instance, keel-laying ceremony for the first ASW corvette, whose construction was approved by the CCNS in 2003, took place on November 20, 2006, and the vessel was launched on April 19, 2010, and is due for commissioning only in late 2013. The second vessel, whose keel was laid on September 27, 2007, was launched on October 24, 2011, and will be commissioned by mid-2014. The third ASWC’s keel-laying was on August 10, 2010 & was launched on March 26, 2013, while the keel-laying of the 4th ASWC was on January 20, 2012 & it will be launched in 2015.
To Anon@10.01PM: The IA has so far only four Pinaka-1 MBRL Regiments, one attached to each of the IA’s Artillery Divisions. The number of MBRL systems operational with the PLA is indeed more than 2,500 of various types, ranging from 106mm till 300mm.
To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: VMT. However, heavy MBTs are here to stay & a 70-tonne MBT powered by 1,800hp powerpack is a distinct reality. What the US Army’s Tank Automotive Research Development and Engineering Center (TARDEC) is hinting at is the development of unmanned armoured vehicles operating within a network-centric environment & equipped with hyper-velocity ATGMs like the US’ Compact Kinetic Energy Missile (CKEM) & MGM-166 LOSAT.
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCmSs6hXWoU
Thank you for the answer sir with regard to my question regarding Dalu nag and Bunker ridge.
I am a young student sir and I do not think I shall be able to lay hands on the book you mentioned in your reply any time soon.
Perhaps you could provide a more substantial answer.
Apologies for taking up your time sir.
livefist.blogspot.com/2013/03/more-official-impressions-of-nirbhay.html?m=1
as always off topic but this moron is saying nirbhay was self distructed and is splashed in sea
To Anon@1.59AM: Regretably, I’m unable to help you out on this one due to paucity of time.
To Anon@2.37AM: That report was a highly premature one & is typical of these ‘desi’ news-reporters trying to blurt out BREAKING NEWS without waiting for the facts to emerge from official sources. When this happens, this is the pathetic & erroneous end-result that comes out.
Have updated the narrative above along with some new visual uploads.
Hi prasun,
VMT for replying.
Could you post update on vikrant being built in kochi. Also pls update about aesa radar being built by drdo. Sorry for being off-topic.
VMT in advance.
Regards,
A G
as per your claims for the links posted in your previous threads pertaining to Moon Rising & Celestial Videos, there is one starking difference that onr who claimed to colour the moon surface and shown various buildings, Spaceship, Craters which are miming activities etc are Debunked by many renowned scientists.
and also i got to watch new video by Chris White Named ' ANCIENT ALIENS DEBUNCKED .
what are your views for this video as it give scientific expalnation for each and every myth spread by History Channel Ancient Aliens Series.
Awaiting your Reply
Sir , Will LEDS-150 be fitted to the rest of the T-90 fleet apart from the 1st 310 ?
Are there any plans of upgrading thw whole of T-90 fleet to T-90AM standards ?
T-90S doesnt have any significant ballistic protectrion over its hull sides except three thin steel plates. This portion can be easily penetrated by APFSDS. Before going to battle are the sides fitted with applique composite armour plates or ERA tiles for better protection ?
Now also, IA can do away with ERA tiles and install APS along with composite armour slabs on the Arjun mk1A ?
Will Arjun mk2 have 120 mm 55 cal cannon ?
Are we still importing APAM rounds from IMI ?
wrt BZ Butto, our young people are becoming more and more nationalistic and the elders don't get it sometimes. Just like what happened in the tribal area's where for the first time islam overcame tribal bonds, same is happening all over pakistan. Defa e paistan and PTI are leading this change along with the judiciary. Its like the army officier class has moved into mainstream Pakistan.
The lastest games:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/SOU-03-280313.html
this guy has some understanding of our peoples mindset!!! The rest just think they do :-)
To PINKAL SHAH: The answer is elementary: all that NASA & ISRO & Rusaviacosmos have to do is release their very own colour photos of the moon. That will establish the truth once & for all. As for scientific explanations, they’re all based on out present-day comprehension of what exactly constitutes the physical sciences & its derivates like quantum physics & quantum mechanics. As these continue to evolve into & move into arenas like plasma physics, more convincing explanations of as yet unexplained phenomena will emerge.
To RAW13: There’s always much more to it than meets the eye….things are often not what they seem to be. Watch these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9odHUxN6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IduuRVu2QCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzGgzxxNbJI
The CVRDE, with IMI’s help, has also redesigned the Arjun Mk1’s turret to incorporate modular sloped armour fittings, and has developed a slat-armour package to protect the MBT against anti-tank rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) attacks. It functions by placing a rigid barrier around the vehicle, which causes the shaped-charge warhead to explode at a relatively safe distance. For protecting the Arjun Mk2 against tandem-charge RPGs and guided anti-tank missiles, the CVRDE and IMI have co-developed a lightweight non-energetic reactive armour (NERA) package, comprising tiles in which two metal plates sandwich an inert liner, such as rubber. When struck by a shaped-charge’s metal jet, some of the impact energy is dissipated into the inert liner layer, and the resulting high-pressure causes a localised bending or bulging of the plates in the area of the impact. As the plates bulge, the point of jet impact shifts with the plate-bulging, increasing the effective thickness of the armour.
Does this hold true now ?
You've claimed several times that LEDS-150 was selected way back in 2009 for installation on a certain amount of T-90s. Could you provide some evidence to back this up? AFAIK, the tender to equip T-90s with an APS is ongoing with 3 companies remaining in the fray, SAAB NOT being one of them. In any case, LEDS's development status is currently uncertain and it would've certainly not been done in 2009. Trophy on the other hand is operational on Merkavas (soon on Namer AFVS as well) and has successfully intercepted RPGs in combat.
Interesting and fascinating information about the moon is available in the following books:
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Mission-History-Enlarged-Revised/dp/1932595481/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364480078&sr=1-5&keywords=mike+bara
http://www.amazon.com/Penetration-Question-Extraterrestrial-Human-Telepathy/dp/0966767403/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1364480168&sr=8-3&keywords=ingo+swann
Also, watch Richard C. Hoagland's videos on YouTube
Prasun,
Is India joining the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan anytime soon ?
It seems Vietnam has also started a dialogue with the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan in order to join them .
Thanks,
Akhil
To Anon@6.13PM: Yup, it’s still true, however, without IMI’s industrial participation. NERA becomes irrelevant now, since the IA is more interested in usage of APS.
To YOTAM: The evidence lies in most of the Show Dailies produced during Aero India 2009, which all reported this development for the first tranche of 310 T-90S. The latest RFP issued for APS is meant for the follow-on tranches of 330 + 347 T-90S MBTs that were ordered in October 2006 & December 2007, respectively. LEDS-150 is very much in the fray & was showcased even last year at DEFEXPO 2012.
To AKHIL SURI: Yes, India is very much in line to join the Eurasian Customs Union.
Sorry, but all a search for other mentions of this supposed contract led me to were more articles written by yourself...Furthermore, why haven't we heard anything from SAAB or the Indian military about this four years on, or seen any T-90s actually equipped with said system? SAAB hasn't even claimed that their system has finished development (I'm speaking specifically of LEDS-150 and not the non-APS LEDS variants), much less that it has been procured by anyone!
By "in the fray" I meant in contention for this specific contract, of course SAAB is marketing the system in India but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. They even signed a JV with wipro to market LEDS in India in 2011, again making absolutely no mention of an existing contract from the Indians...
To YOTAM: The confusion is perhaps arising due to the fact that the LEDS-150 was selected for installation on the first 310 T-90S MBTs, but contract award has yet to take place simply because the contract award for undertaking the mid-life upgrade of the 310 T-90S MBTs has not yet taken place & is now running three years behind schedule. In fact, I had already mentioned this in one of my earlier comments above in this very thread. The LEDS-150 APS was demonstrated by SAAB on board an Indian Army T-90S on a no-cost no-commitment basis in 2008 itself.
Dear Prasun,
Thank you very much for fabulous info on Arjun Mk2 and Mk3.
Very good news that both Mk2 and Mk3 will be having a crew of three to reduce weight.
Hope your suggestion of a modified Tank-X will be taken up seriously by the Army. Tank-X was a very good concept. What made the Army to reject it? Sheer cussedness, I think.
So the system was "selected"-but not contracted- for T-90s 4 years ago? What does this even mean legally today? I maintain that the likelihood of anything firm being agreed upon and you being the only one to report it for years is vanishingly small. I should add that the reason I am quite confident in what I'm saying is that I happen to know a man involved with Israeli APS development who regularly travels to India on bussiness and he told me that no system has been selected (in any meaningful capacity) for any tanks and that SAAB's system wasn't mature enough to even be in serious contention for the contracts (if not today then certainly in 2009).
Very Nice exciting comprehensive article on Arjun. Kudos to you. Your articles remove the maya that Indian desi journos bring when they write defense articles.
From your descriptions, it looks Mk2 will become a formidable world class tank. How that will be compared with the tanks from China, Israel, Russia, US, France, UK and Germany?
So When Arjun Mk2 would be rolled out sometime at end of this decade, the technology would have changed, right? Will that make Mk2 a kind of obsolete?
There is a news from a Desi Media on Tejus - http://idrw.org/?p=20164
Why should HAL fly Tejus with sub-standard version of Tejus?
Naval War Room Leak mastermind Mr. Ravi Shankaran lost his appeal. Will he be extradited to India immediately? What would be the implications? I was very curious how did he survive in the last 3-4 years in Europe without Indian Passport. Must have had many connections. I foresee that he and Mr. Verma will be bailed out. Can you explain a little about this whole natak?
To YOTAM: What this means is that the reqmt for the first 310 T-90S will either likely be re-tendered, or a new price quote be obtained from SAAB, which is today in quite an advantageous position in India, especially with regard to development of customised integrated defensive aids suites for various platforms, both ground-based & airborne. Having said that, for the Arjun family of MBTs, the Trophy APS stands a better chance of winning a contract award since 1) it is an already operationally proven product & is in series-production; & 2) IMI’s Iron Fist APS is no longer an available option due to the company being blacklisted early last year by India’s MoD.
OK, I suppose time will tell whether you're right or not. In any case thank you for your patient replies.
Hi Prasun da,
Any update on the avtaar reusable vehicle
To Anon@12.07AM: VMT. The Arjun Mk2 MBT will be comparable in performance to the likes of M-1A2, Merkava-4, LeClerc & Challenger-2. It can’t be compared to any existing medium battle tanks of Russian or Chinese origin as it is much heavier, being a main battle tank. Arjun Mk2 is expected to be series-produced by 2017 onwards & there will be no dramatic technological breakthroughs by then of the type that will make such MBTs obsolete by any yardstick.
The news reports on Tejas Mk1’s LSP-8 are erroneous, as are ALL REPORTS relating to that MRCA’s IOC & FOC. For starters, IOC & FOC can be attained ONLY AFTER the aircraft has been delivered to the IAF & the IAF’s designated squadron begins the process of flight conversion. In this case, all LSPs are still ADA’s property till this day & unless the SP-series of Tejas Mk1 MRCAs are delivered to the IAF, the process of IOC won’t even begin. It is for this reason that the IAF’s first designated ‘Tejas’ Mk1 squadron--No45 ‘Flying Daggers’ Sqn—which will initially be first raised in Bengaluru before relocating to Sulur in Coimbatore, is still as of today based at Naliya AFS & is flying the MiG-21 Bison. Therefore, what’s going on today are ONLY the Tejas Mk1’s flight certification & weapons qualification phases. No air force in the world uses aircraft prototypes like LSPs for squadron-level operational flight conversion. It is only the SP-series aircraft that are used for such purposes. So, the sooner everyone starting from the MoD’s Defence Minister right down to the DRDO’s DG Dr V K Saraswat & the ‘desi’ print/electronic media entities begin to understand such elementary facts, the better for everyone involved, thereby avoiding needless obfuscation.
As for Ravi Shankaran, there were five charges levelled against him about theft of classified data from the IN’s Directorate of Operations. Of these, four have already been quashed in the UK’s Crown Court, but the fifth charge—of stealing & possessing classified data pertaining to India’s stance on the Sir Creek issue & related marine survey data—has now been upheld. Of course he can still appeal the decision & he will therefore not be extradited for at least another two years. Regarding Abhishek Verma & his Romanian wife, they’ve both become hot potatoes now & will therefore be shunned by one & all within Delhi’s corridors of power. Consequently, devoid of friends who can bail him out, he & his wife are likely to end up being convicted & sentenced to prison terms by the courts. It now remains to be seen if the money that he had laundered & had sent to the US will be recovered by the RBI.
To YOTAM: VMT.
To VIVEK: Nothing on that front, I’m afraid. My personal view is that it is still a decade away from realisation.
To SNTATA: VMT. Three-man crew complement will not help save weight, since the autoloader system will be heavier than a single member of the crew complement. What will save weight is the doing away of 1.5 tonnes of ERA tiles & adoption of an 850kg APS on Arjun Mk2 & Arjun Mk3. APS could easily have been installed on Arjun Mk1A as well, since the installation of ERA tiles on the hull & turret defies all logic. Hopefully, the turret of Arjun Mk2 will also be adopted wholescale for a re-engineered TANK EX MBT as well, support for which is now growing within Indian Army HQ.
Another piece of very good news concerns the IA’s field artillery howitzers & just as I had predicted last April immediately after DEFEXPO 2012, IA HQ has chosen the KALYANI Group (which owns Bharat Forge) as the preferred bidder for upgunning/upgrading close to 600 M-46H 130mm towed howitzers to 155mm/45-cal standard. On the other hand, the OFB’s 155X45 offer for towed 155mm/45-cal howitzer has been selected as well by IA HQ for series-production, meaning the IA will no longer require to import 155mm/52-cal howitzers. Contract award for both these types of towed howitzers will be placed by the latter half of this year itself, by which time the contract for LW-155 39-cal ultralightweight howitzers will also be placed. But more about all this in another brand-new thread early next month. Have fun!
Yet another skeleton last night rolled out of the Pakistan Army's closet, this time about the Laal Masjid incident. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUiWkugeDzk&feature=player_embedded
Hi Prasun,
Since it will more than a decade before we see Arjun MK3, why not work on Electrothermal-chemical technology gun. By that time the muzzel energy of a 120mm smoothbore might be obsolete for the armor at that time.
Is a gas turbine engine for future tanks worth looking at?(i mean apart from our technocrats inability to produce a turbine engine).
How about a hyperbar engine like the one in Leclerc. What would be your choice in hyperbar, gas turbine and diesel engines?
I know India is slowly moving ahead in composites but is any work being done in nanotubes armor?
Sir,China buying 24 SU-35, what will be the effect of this to India's air dominance?
what will be the outcome of air to air confrontation between su-30 MKI versus su-35.
thanks
Hi prasun,
Waiting for your reply to my post @1.19 pm yesterday.
Regards,
A G
Hi Prasun
What is he real issue that the LCA is not built to standards , is it a turf war or is there some truth in what is reported. On the out look the lca seems crudely finished with rivets and bolts protruding and overall workshop like quality .The JF-17 seems much better finished , lets give the devil its due . Why have we not heard any news from the lCA side .
Hi Prasun,
Another state-of-art article from u.Thanks to u I have for the 1st time clear about the three Arjun MBT variants. There was a hell lot of confusion abt MK1A and Mk2.Plus add the FMBT factor. It was real pig's breakfast!!!!
Thanks for clearing all that up. Also thanks for explaining the design aspects and components for each variant. I believe this is the only article currently on net about the various Arjun variants which explains so many things clearly.
Thanks
Swarop
thank you sir for your reply
but i have one doubt regarding colour phenomena as we all know that colour which human eye can perceive is small band in EM spectrum and made up of white light and due to atmosphere we can able to see VIBGYOR while on moon as there is no atmosphere there is no question arising for any colour photos and if there is any than it may in IR or UV band.
Also please give your valuable input regarding Ancient Aliens Series
running on history channel. and video by Chris White Named ANCIENT ALIENS DEBUNCKED
Sir , Will LEDS-150 be fitted to the rest of the T-90 fleet apart from the 1st 310 ?
Are there any plans of upgrading thw whole of T-90 fleet to T-90AM standards ?
T-90S doesnt have any significant ballistic protectrion over its hull sides except three thin steel plates. This portion can be easily penetrated by APFSDS. Before going to battle are the sides fitted with applique composite armour plates or ERA tiles for better protection ?
Now also, IA can do away with ERA tiles and install APS along with composite armour slabs on the Arjun mk1A ?
Will Arjun mk2 have 120 mm 55 cal cannon ?
Are we still importing APAM rounds from IMI ?
Which is a better APS LEDS 150 or Trophy or Iron Fist ?
sir wat is the need of importing assault rifle if drdo multi calibre gun will be available soon?is dis a stop gap step?dont u think if this tender goes on it will be bad for our economy and arms industry?
Prasunji,
Zhunge's 36 Strategems states how to engage wars/diplomacy (Even Kautilya's Arthashastra is famous in this respect). How come they are useful in defining/shaping the aims/goals of Chinese military thinking/objectives as you've said.. VMT
Dear Prasun,
Very happy to learn from you that support for Tank-EX is growing in the Army. Don't you think it will be a fine light tank most suitable for Himalayan heights?
Have they done away with Mine Plough in Arjun Mk2 and Mk3?
Hey Prasun, when are you coming up with a thorough coverage on FINSAS?
To ARJUN: Electrothermal cannons consume a lot of electricity & therefore its power-supply sources will not be able to be accommodated within the compact hulls of armoured vehicles. Such cannons, however, are only now being developed for use on board principal surface combatants like guided-missile destroyers. The next-generation MBT to emerge from either the US or Europe will in all paobability be just a 20-tonne hull carrying hyper-velocity ATGMs like the Compact Kinetic Energy Missile (CKEM) & MGM-166 LOSAT. For India, indigenous gas-turbine powerpacks are an avoidable luxury. Hyperbar diesel engine could well have gone on board the Arjun Mk1 had India accepted France’s offer made in the mid-1970s to co-develop such a 1,500hp engine. R & D work is indeed underway in nano-tube armour.
To Anon@10.33AM: That was already discussed & debated two threads ago.
To AG: IAC-1 (INS Vikrant) is presently back in the dry-dock of CSL where the remaining modules are now being integrated with the vessel’s gull & superstructure. These modules include the stern section housing the integrated propulsion system, plus the mid-section elevators & internal hangarage that had arrived from Russia last year. And which AESA radar are you referring to?
To RAD: The finishing touches given to the airframes to all Tejas Mk1 LSPs & PVs are the same because they were not fabricated & assembled within a proper & specified final-assembly line. The finishings of the SP-series will be a lot better, rest assured.
To SPANKY’s BLOG/SWAROP: VMT indeed. I felt it was a better idea to consolidate all Arjun MBT-related data & visuals all into one dedicated thread so as to present the big picture. Also, kindly take note of the following breakdown of present-day & projected orders:
124 x Arjun Mk1
118 x Arjun Mk1A
500 X Arjun Mk2
1,000 x Arjun Mk3 FMBT (Projected)
800 x Tank EX (Projected)
40 x BLT-Arjun Mk1
80 x BLT Arjun Mk2
20 x CMF-Arjun Mk1
20 x FWMP-Arjun Mk1
60 x ARV-Arjun Mk1
To PINKAL SHAH: Truly convincing answers to your query on photos of the moon’s surface or that of Mars can only be given once the official photos are released by the US, Russia & India. There are hundreds of photos taken by US astronauts & Russian cosmonauts between 1969 & 1972 when they had landed on the moon’s surface. What the Ancient Aliens series has been showing for the past five seasons is nothing but a Western discovery of all that has been documented by several ancient Indian scriptures like the Vedas, Upanishads, Sangam literature, Vimanikashastra, etc.
To Anon@2.05PM: For the remaining 330 + 347 T-90S MBTs, RFIs were released last year for information on suitable APS suites. There are no plans for upgrading all T-90S to T-90AM standard. No add-on ERA tiles on appliqué armour plates are presently specified for the T-90S. APAM rounds are now being developed by DRDO. Trophy APS is better than Iron Fist & that’s why the former is on board the IDF-Army’s Merkava-4 MBTs.
To Anon@3.15PM: This is just a stop-gap purchase for fulfilling immediate requirements.
To Anon@3.25PM: Diplomacy & military might are two of several other components (the others include a country’s internal natural resources, human resource skills & qualities, industrial prowess, financial status, etc) that together define a country’s comprehensive might.
To SNTATA: VMT indeed. I felt it was a better idea to consolidate all Arjun MBT-related data & visuals all into one dedicated thread so as to present the big picture. Also, kindly take note of the following breakdown of present-day & projected orders:
124 x Arjun Mk1
118 x Arjun Mk1A
500 X Arjun Mk2
1,000 x Arjun Mk3 FMBT (Projected)
800 x Tank EX (Projected)
40 x BLT-Arjun Mk1
80 x BLT Arjun Mk2
20 x CMF-Arjun Mk1
20 x FWMP-Arjun Mk1
60 x ARV-Arjun Mk1
Tank EX will be the optimum MBT of choice when operating over mountainous terrain. Arjun Mk2/3 will both have attachments for accommodating TWMPs. Coverage of FINSAS will appear sometime next month.
Due to what reasons the Army is getting impressed with the Tank-EX.
To Mr.RA 13: I guess the IA has at last discovered the miracle of ‘logical reasoning’. For the TANK EX MBT is a highly cost-effective solution that can be achieved & implemented in-country within a short span of time with indigenously available resources—material & human—and at the same time promises to be a gamechanger when it comes to high-altitude armoured warfare against medium battle tanks like China’s Type 96 & Type 99 medium battle tanks.
"800 x Tank EX (Projected)"
Prasun i really hope you are right but drdo is proposing it for an option after it was shot down by army when tank ex was first proposed and hence its not even under army's radar.
"Tank EX will be the optimum MBT of choice when operating over mountainous terrain."
Tank ex in its present form (t72 hull+arjun mk1 turret) is not suitable for mountanious region simply because of an extrememly bulky turret as compared to its hull.
But hey i could be wrong because my assumption is simply based on figures of tank and pictures. I can't imagine how tank would perform when it is tested in NE and JnK especially since even drdo and ia hasn't tested it. Also i am not sure how different is the turret of arjun mk2 will be from mk1 and mk1A.
I think t90 might do the job, if not then just use the base of tata FICV and purchase a turret from someone. You know there are slot of experimental turret which are actually good lying in trash in US and Russia.
"I guess the IA has at last discovered the miracle of ‘logical reasoning’."
Are you saying IA has made up its mind to procure 800 tank ex with arjun mk2 turret even before seeing how turret of mk2 will look like ?
Is the turret of mk2 gonna be lighter than mk1 ? Or no changes in turret at all ?
Also why doesn't IA goes for more attack helicopter rather than tanks ?
IA should procure heavy helicopters like Mi35 or incrase fire power of Rudra.
Prasun,
You say that the ideal solution would be for 800 TANK EX, now is this your personal opinion or is this a view he IA agrees and will peruse with concrete orders?
+ I have noticed that the IAF's PHALCON AWACS in service all do not have "INDIAN AIR FORCE" (in English and Hindi) printed along the sides of them as all transports in the IAF do have and the EMB-145 AWACS do have.Also they don't seem to have the IAF's roundals. They have the IAF's fin flash on their tails however. Is there a particular reason behind this ie operational security?
+ being strategic assets are the PHALCONS adequately protected and given security fitting of their importance to India? And is a Mehran style attack a possiblity in any IAF/IN airbase?
HI Prasun
What is the actual reason for the tank EX to be rejected ?. was it on performance parameters or they were sick of the drdo non performance .How is the integration of the embraer awacs going on ? are they facing problems, they seem to be confident of 2014 delivery. Is it due to the fact that the software is the same as on the Phalcon that was supposed to be developed by india and israel, is that true?.
Hi prasun,
VMT for replying, couldn't get anything on open forums hence asked you.
And m asking about ashwin aesa being developed for tejas mk2.
Regards,
A G
Prasunji,
Did russian cosmonaut landings ever took place? Since the Soviet N1 rocked failed to achieve operational launch capability there by limiting soviet lunar explorations to just orbiting the moon (with out actual landings). VMT
Prasun da,
What is your opinion on the UN arms treaty ? India will be at disadvantage if we sign it in its current form.
Prasunji,
So if we put in a cleaner way about Chinese forward thinking in respects of driving their nation towards self reliance, building a very strong economy, competing with US in many high technology respects, Industrialization etc. directly shows how their leaders are patrons of their state (at-least in shaping it as a super power, with out considering the state ideology of communism and curtailed freedom for its citizens etc.) When it comes to India the first 50 years (with one prime minister officially endorsing corruption (As corruption is unavoidable)) is ruled by people whose acts had done more damage than development. Your thoughts. VMT.
Prasun, why do you say no order for towed 155/52 would be needed based on the selection of the OFB 155/45 ?
I mean the performance qualities of the two are very different.
To Anon@7.52AM: TANK EX proposal wasn’t shot down or rejected by anyone on performance grounds. In fact, TANK EX was a proposal by the DRDO to upgrade the projected second tranche of 700 T-72M1982 medium battle tanks under Project Rhino-2, which never took off because 1) the NDA govt of the time had made the importation of T-90S medium battle tanks as the topmost priority since 1998; & 2) the Arjun Mk1’s turret & its fire-control system & gun-control system had not yet attained maturity in terms of design & performance criteria. The same situation does not persists today since a robust & proven & integrated fire-control system & gun-control system does now exist. Over all types of terrain, what matters most in terms of mobility is the power-to-weight ratio & the ground pressure of any MBT & in this area, the TANK EX comes out much better than the T-90S, not to mention the obvious superiority it enjoys over the T-90S in terms of the fire-control system & gun-control system. Arjun Mk2’s turret design was frozen quite some time back & will be lighter due to its all-electric turret stabilization system, as opposed to the earlier electro-hydraulic system.
To Anon@8.20AM: Such matters can’t evolve overnight neither can they materialize overnight. For starters, the AAC has to increase its pool of skilled human resources, which is the most time-consuming & may well take a decade to reach fruition. Secondly, the AAC has to come up with its own peacetime hubs/helicopter bases where its Rudra helicopter-gunships will be located.
To UNKNOWN: Yes, it is my personal opinion BASED on what’s being presently discussed within both IA HQ & the IA’s HQ Training Command. IAF roundels are indeed there at the rear-section of each A-50I PHALCON, as are the registration numbers on the tail.
To RAD: TANK EX was a proposal by the DRDO to upgrade the projected second tranche of 700 T-72M1982 medium battle tanks under Project Rhino-2, which never took off because 1) the NDA govt of the time had made the importation of T-90S medium battle tanks as the topmost priority since 1998; & 2) the Arjun Mk1’s turret & its fire-control system & gun-control system had not yet attained maturity in terms of design & performance criteria. The same situation does not persists today since a robust & proven & integrated fire-control system & gun-control system does now exist. Over all types of terrain, what matters most in terms of mobility is the power-to-weight ratio & the ground pressure of any MBT & in this area, the TANK EX comes out much better than the T-90S, not to mention the obvious superiority it enjoys over the T-90S in terms of the fire-control system & gun-control system. Arjun Mk2’s turret design was frozen quite some time back & will be lighter due to its all-electric turret stabilization system, as opposed to the earlier electro-hydraulic system.
EMB-145I AEW & CS’ mission management software is totally different from that for the A-50I PHALCON. Delivery of the first EMB-145I prototype will be offered for flight certification & mission qualification tests starting 2014 & lasting till 2016, meaning ONLY AFTER the successful conclusion of such tests will IOC & FOC proceed in a sequential manner.
To AG@11.27AM: Ashwin AESA-based target detection/engagement radar is meant for SR-SAM, not for Tejas Mk2 MRCA.
To Anon@12.10PM: Yes, there was a joint US-USSR moon landing mission under Apollo 20.
To Anon@4PM: I don’t see India at any disadvantage whatsoever.
To Anon@5.26PM: My thoughts exactly. However, almost every Indian political leader post-independence has either been totally ignorant about Kautilya’s Arthashastra or has deliberately chosen to mould India as a status-quo power, with China being the exact opposite. When one accepts futility & refuses to acknowledge that things can be changed for the better (as is preached by Sanatan Dharma), then a peculiar regressive mindset emerges that psychologically militates against all forms of liberation expansion & innovation of both a material & spiritual nature. A prime example of this today is the state of West Bengal, where it has been propagated since the late 1960s that the concept of subsistence living is best, & that all other expectations of bettering one’s material existence is viewed as a social sin. Contrast that with the late Deng Xiao-Ping who has stated in the early 1980s that it is ‘glorious to be rich’.
SBM: It’s not me who’s saying that, but Army HQ’s Directirate of Field Artillery that’s saying it. Performance parameters between the two differ in only the issue of maximum attainable range, while for the rest there’s no major difference at all. On top of all this, the available domestic core technological competencies as far as industrial manufacturing goes, both OFB & Kalyani Group today possess only the capability to produce 155mm/45-cal towed howitzers & within a decade may well be able to roll out 155mm/52-cal solutions. But as far as immediate reqmts go, 155mm/45-cal solutions will be most welcome by anyone, since—especially over mountainous terrain at high altitudes—155mm/45-cal howitzers can hurl a round out to a distance of 49km (the existing FH-77Bs & the to-be-imported LW-155s can do so out to 41km), thanks to the prevailing rarified atmosphere at such forbidding heights.
hello sir ,
sorry being out of the topic...
What is current status of rustom uav?
please do write a article on drdo developed & under development uav
thanks in advance ...
Prasun,
You are 100% correct the roundals are there however they for sure do not have "INDIAN AIR FORCE" (in English and Hindi) printed along the sides of them as all transports in the IAF do have and the EMB-145 AWACS do have.
Is there a particular reason behind this ie operational security?
+ being strategic assets are the PHALCONS adequately protected and given security fitting of their importance to India? And is a Mehran style attack a possiblity in any IAF/IN airbase?
To Anon@7.03PM: Which version of Rustom? Rustom-1 or Rustom-2?
To KSINGH: Not for operational security reasons as such, but it is simply not required when flying within Indian airspace. For transport aircraft, on the other hand, that have to often fly in international airspace, as per internationally mandated ICAO regulations, the name of the aircraft’s operator has to be clearly shown on the airframe. Once the EMB-145I enters operational service, there will be no mention of the IAF on its airframes, just the roundel & tricolour will remain.
As for ground-based protection, no one can be adequately protected against suicide bombers. The only possible solution is therefore to prevent such operational lapses through pre-emption & putting in place a multi-layered security cordon around areas where high-value assets are located during both peacetime & wartime.
Oh, sorry... i was under the impression that ashwin aesa radar is being developed for tejas mk1.... btw is there any aesa radar being developed for tejas or not? If yes then pls post update about it.
A G
To AG: The LRDE is doing some preliminary R & D work on developing an AESA-MMR. But Tejas Mk1 & LVA (Navy) Mk1 will both have EL/M-2032 MMRs, while the Tejas Mk2 & LCA (Navy) Mk2 will both have imported AESA-MMRs for sure.
Watch these two interesting videos on:
Operation Eagle Claw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohy2-QIM-7s
Operation Thunderbolt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj9CK9dQau0
Prasun,
You've talked about the P-15A/B being unable to assume the ATBM role. Raytheon was touting a variant of the SM-3 equipped with dual data-links to work with radars used by Euro-navies. Would that work for us?
To Anon@3.21AM: Any US-origin ATBM system is network-centric, i.e. using a matrix of early warning sensors ranging from space-based early warning satellites to terrestrial early warning radars whose targetting cues are synthesised into a single tactical picture & then relayed to the BMD missile-launch platform, be it a warship or land-based launcher. And all these capabilities are made available only to NATO member-states & Japan. Therefore, possessing merely a super-duper SM-3 SAM won’t mean anything at all for India in the absence of all the above-mentioned early warning capabilities.
Prasun don't understand urdu; what was the link about? Also the Russian link I could understand about Israeli operation but do you understand fluent Russian?
"TANK EX proposal wasn’t shot down or rejected by anyone on performance grounds."
I never said that. How can anybody say this considering it was never tested on field.
"In fact, TANK EX was a proposal by the DRDO to upgrade the projected second tranche of 700 T-72M1982 medium battle tanks under Project Rhino-2, which never took off because 1) the NDA govt of the time had made the importation of T-90S medium battle tanks as the topmost priority since 1998;"
It was because of IA's support to t90. IA at that time was really pissed of at drdo because of repeated delays.
"Over all types of terrain, what matters most in terms of mobility is the power-to-weight ratio & the ground pressure of any MBT & in this area, the TANK EX comes out much better than the T-90S, not to mention the obvious superiority it enjoys over the T-90S in terms of the fire-control system & gun-control system."
Of course....
But when terrains matters for vehicle when the vehicle is not meant to be in that terrain. IA has no business fielding tanks in the North and the North-East. Its stupid. Induct large number of artillery, cruise missiles and air assets likle LCH in those areas.
Leave tanks to Punjab and Rajasthan areas. Yes they should induct huge numbers of Arjun.
If they really want something in mountains then they should go for something that is air transportable.
To PIERRE ZORIN: The one in Urdu was about the Laal Masjid incident in Islamabad & what exactly happened over a 6-month period leading to the storming of the mosque by Pakistan's SSG.
About the second link, here's something in English:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKqV3zbJjo&list=PLD7867A202B37B064
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IzlPGg41mA&playnext=1&list=PL42C578064FA62CB1&feature=results_video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ6mCxwD_ws&list=PL42C578064FA62CB1
And here's the link for an SAS hostage rescue operation in Sierra Leone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hip64w5qIw
Is army planning to procure 800 tank ex ? Or u are saying they should.
I agree with you but i wanna to clear this thing.
When fdi in defence will be increased ?
Give some info on cryogenic engine projects in india ?
I read an article a few months back about india lagging in supercomputers and then govt. plan to start a new revolution where very powerful and many such supercomputers will be build to help reaserch work in the country.
Is it true ?
Why is NIA gonna investigate marines case ?
Whats this new arms treaty all about ? Hopw it effects india ?
people in some shows are talking about Indo-bangladesh ties not too good. But i think they are best right now. What do u think ?
To Anon@7AM: Proposals can & are always shot down & rejected when they’re still in the paper evaluations stage, where performance parameters of fully developed & operational weapons are all written down in black-and-white. In 90% of the cases, field evaluations aren’t even necessary for products that are fully developed. Field evaluations & user evaluations matter only when a weapons prototype needs to be tested under operational conditions. There are several areas in the North & North East where MBTs can be put to good use. Not all of the North & North East is made up of high-altitude mountainous terrain. And the arrival of C-17A Globemaster IIIs will make it possible for almost every type of MBT in service with the IA to be air-transported. Presently, only T-72s can be air-transported by IL-76MDs.
Prasun,
1) Can Nirbhay with modifications be sub launched from a torpedo tube ? Has IN shown any interest for such type.
2) The Cummins supplied engine (QSK38) for Arjun MK2,isn't this one in market for a while now ? Its been used in marine and other roles. So why does IA needs 3+ years of engine testing and validation when it is already proven one.
3) Will this engine be manufactured in India or will it be imported from US.
4) Qualitatively how does the Cummins QSK-38 compare with the Ukranian 6TD-5 (1800HP) engine. If 1800 HP is available in market why is the IA going for a lesser power engine. FMBT or Arjun MK3 requires 1800 HP or more, so why not incorporate the higher power engines now it self in Mk2 and work on improving them for MK3.
HI Prasun
ARDE claims that t he MSMC
5.56 caliber submachine gun is a a success and it has gone in for user trials.I believe the concept is correct like the P90 and the MP-7 , if engineered correctly and produced within tolerances it should give a run to the MP-5 in range and lethality .If they dont get it right the best way is to ask H&K to debug the gun like the brits did to the SA-80 or still better ask them to chamber the 5.56x30 mm round to the proven MP_5 chasis, how good is the gun and what is the correct position.
The IJT seems to be a dud owing to several problems of thrust ,spin and weight problems.Can we use it for stage 2 training as well and then move on the hawk. I believe it is being done by other forces. Pse coment
To SK: 1) Of course the Nirbhay can be launched from torpedo-tubes, if required. But on the other hand, if launched this way, the torpedo compartment will have far less torpedo rounds to carry, which in case of SSKs, will defeat the very purpose the SSK or SSN was built for, i.e. acting as a self-seeking hunter-killer submarine. Therefore, the best way to avoid such compromises is to have a separate dedicated compartment housing such vertically-launched SLCMs.
2) The basic QSK-38 engine was not originally designed for fitment on to the rear section of any MBT. Therefore, in order to be accommodated within any MBT’s powerpack compartment, it must be slightly re-engineered so that not only its external dimensions are compatible with the powerpack compartment, but its integration with an automatic transmission (gearbox) must also be tried, tested & refined.
3) This engine will be built almost entirely within India.
4) If I’m not mistaken, the QSK-38 is water-cooled, while the 6TD-5 is air-cooled. There are several design enhancements to the hull & turret of the Arjun Mk3 FMBT that need to be carried out & the end-product is going to be significantly different from the Arjun Mk2. Consequently, the degree of commonality between the Arjun Mk2 & Mk3 will be significantly reduced. Consequently, one should not be expected to incorporate such enhancements on to the Arjun Mk2, since this will only delay its development process for no logical reason.
To RAD: The MSMC has a very bright future for sure, especially with the CAPFs & a production-run of more than 500,000 units is assured. Usage of the HJT-36 IJT will be the most expensive way of conducting the IAF’s Stage-2 training. No one else in the world does so, especially after acquiring turboprop-powered basic trainers. All this money spent on the IJT should instead have been spent on acquiring some 80 Tejas Mk1 tandem-seaters for use as lead-in fighter-trainers, as I had had explained in great detail several times before.
Prasun ,
Even after the SU 30 MKI are upgraded to Super SU 30 MKI isn't it a fact that the SU 35 will still be a superior aircraft ? The specs for the SU 35S are as follows :
Maximum internal fuel - 11,500kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling, without external fuel tanks) - 3600kms
Max ceiling - 18km
Max Speed - Mach 2.25
Canards - No (since radar isn't heavy)
Crew - 1
Max Afterburner Thrust - 14500kgf(gives a massive boost to TWR compared to Su-30MKI)
External Fuel Tanks - Yes (can carry 2 drop tanks of 1400kgs fuel in each of them)
Composites - Yes. Extensive use of Titanium Alloys.
Empty Weight - Unknown. Estimated to be around 18800kgs.
Airframe life - 6,000hrs or 30 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - Yes
RCS - unofficial estimate between 1-3m2
Airbrake - No. Powerful modified rudders act as Airbrakes.
Supercruise - Yes
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km
The specs for the SUper Sukhoi are inferior to those of the SU 35 .
to anon above
I wonder where u got your info from, there is no way that a PESA can be better than an AESA given the same aperture . Even if the detection range stated is true the AESA can do a much better job as the inherent sensitivity of the AESA is more as well as other simultaneuos modes of opertion
@ rad -
Got the specs from SUKHOI's website.
The only advantage that AESA has over a PESA radar is that it is more difficult to jam an AESA radar .
Two things here , first ,the Russians are upgrading their SU 35S with the Zhuk AESA radar and China might get the same .
Second, the PESA radar on the SU 35S is a monster with performance as good as any AESA radar.
To Anon@8.34PM & Anon@10.31PM: This is all mere fan-boy stuff for clueless jingos. At the end of the day, there are 1) no substitutes for the level of efficiency displayed by a two-man crew (interleaved operations); & 2) It is not combat aircraft technology, but air campaign tactics & the high-level aircrew proficiency that are the deciding factors in any outcome. And the Zhuk-AE AESA-MMR has never been qualified on any member of the Su-30 family.
An excellent portrayal of a real-life CSAR mission behind enemy lines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nyDJx8nktY
Here’s the actual incident that inspired an insurance salesman called Tom Clancy to write a novel entitled ‘The Hunt for Red October’:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Aa9EZKTZrA
Thank you Prasun.I hope you have many years of service left in you because not much dissimilar to the Indian MoD not planning for the future, once you go don't see any worthy replacements! LoL
To PIERRE ZORIN: VMT indeed! Will try to live up to your expectations. (LoLLLZZZ!)
"But on the other hand, if launched this way, the torpedo compartment will have far less torpedo rounds to carry, "
You are telling me, torpedo launchers come filled with torpedos and once launched the crew cannot put a new torpedo while on mission ?
I am sorry i don't know much about Subs but as i far as i know its better to have more torpedoes on board rather than having a separate launcher for SLCM which will waste more space in ssk which no one can afford and i think because of this reason why russians build klub missiles.
"There are several design enhancements to the hull & turret of the Arjun Mk3 FMBT that need to be carried out & the end-product is going to be significantly different from the Arjun Mk2."
Please take it the wrong way but i don't think anyone is thinking about arjun mk3 right now, considering mk2 is 4-5 yrs far from field trials.
"Consequently, the degree of commonality between the Arjun Mk2 & Mk3 will be significantly reduced. Consequently, one should not be expected to incorporate such enhancements on to the Arjun Mk2, since this will only delay its development process for no logical reason."
Why build mk3 when almost all changes in mk3 can be brought in mk2 itself.
Prasun,
These cannot be "fan-boy stuff for clueless jingos" as these specs are available on the KnAApo website
http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/products/su-35/index.wbp
COmpare these specs with the specs of the Super Sukhoi and you will realize that the SU 35 is superior
HI Prasun
It is quite clear that the chinese are buying the su-35 to get at the latest tech which come along , they being masters in reverse tech ie including avionics.
Every thing on the su-35 i s new and as they have copied all the systems of the original su-27 they have gone to the next step.
I really wonder how they copied the fly by wire control system software as it would have been written in machine language peculiar to the russians .From articles gleaned on the the internet the russians were shocked when thatr happened . Putin is a bad bet for india i think . They were aticles where several people were opposed to the sale of hi tech stuff as they were all copied , and russia was a mute spectator to the whole drama. One of them said "why should we sell them the rope that they will hang us with "
Know body knows what would be the exact performance of the super -30 as we would not let them publish it , so i dont buy the argument that the su-35 is better
What bitter experience Indian had during the Kargil war, so that New Delhi should not be part of any international treaty that tends to jeopardize its national interests.
which experience ??
Hi Prasun,
Thanks for your previous replies. I have a question regarding the APS. What is the advantage of using APS over conventional ERA tiles? Is it only the weight factor or there are other reasons also?
Thanks
Swarop
Prasun Da,
Please update all of us on HAL Tejas LSP-8 flight on 31st March 2013.
hellow sir,
please can you give lattest updates on rustom 1 uav...
thanks in advance...
To Anon@7.08AM: Who said anything about torpedo launchers or torpedo tubes??? I had clearly stated torpedo compartment that houses the torpedoes. And the features of the projected Arjun Mk3 MBT cannot be incorporated on the Mk2 for obvious structural reasons. To claim otherwise is akin to claiming that the Tejas Mk1 can easily accommodate the F414 turbofan.
To Anon@12.49PM: These are indeed "fan-boy stuff for clueless jingos". If not, then you would have posted comparative specs of the Super Su-30MKI as well & then left it to the readers to form their own conclusions. But by posting only the Su-35’s specs & then claiming that such specs are superior to those for the Super Su-30MKI, what you’ve done is you’ve made a vain attempt to compare apples with oranges.
To RAD: Nothing is further from the truth. Just compare the crashed aircraft figures of the PLAAF’s Su-27SKs & Su-27UBKs & J-11As & J-11Bs & the truth will emerge. Therefore, to state that China has successfully reverse-engineered the Su-27SK & Su-27UBK is not true at all. The AL-31F turbofans have never been reverse-engineered nor have the AL-31FNs.
To DASHU: Beats me. As far as I know, the Ruskies under Boris Yeltsin threw open their war wastage reserve stocks to India with no questions asked & the IAF’s IL-76MDs flew several sorties for airlifting such urgently reqd stocks. The officer from IA HQ who was the chief logistician then for this effort was Maj Gen (ret’d) Mrinal Suman.
To SPANKY’s BLOG: The APS is obviously much lighter than the ERA package. Also, it offers 360-degree protection, which ERA does not. Thirdly, APS as a drop-in installation is most easily integrated with an MBT’s vectronics suite & requires minimal structural modifications to the MBT’s turret, whereas ERA requires extensive clip-on modifications (to carry the ERA tiles) to both the hull & turret.
To Anon@5.11PM: There’s nothing new about the Tejas Mk1 LSP-8. It is identical to the LSP-7 in all respects.
PrasunDa,
From the events in Iraq and to a certain extent in Israel it has become common knowledge that the shock wave generated from an explosion is actually killing the tank crews .
As you probably already know that in Iraq for example Abraham M1A2 have survived an IED or an RPG 32 hit , but the shockwave generated by these explosions have killed the tank crew .
Shouldn't the DRDO therefore take steps to develop the Arjum MK2 & MK3 in such a fashion that tank crews can be saved from the shockwave of an explosion ?
Regards,
Vikram
Hi Prasun,
There have been some development it seems on the India , Eurasian Custom Union issue .
http://indrus.in/economics/2013/04/01/india_eyes_ceca_with_customs_union_of_russia_belarus_and_kazakhstan_23411.html
It seems Russia , Belarus and Kazakhstan want greater access for their goods in the Indian market whereas India wants better access for Indian professionals in the common area and simplified work permits.
I think India will stand to loose because once India opens up it's markets to their goods there is no guarantee that Indian professionals will be allowed to work in Russia , Belarus , Kazakhstan . Because these countries will direct racial attacks toward Indians thereby forcing Indians to leave their country . It is very well known that Neo Nazis are a law unto themselves in Russia.
Cheers,
Akhil
The US MBT is called Abrams, btw, not Abraham. A common enough mistake though.
what happened to the tender floated for "Multi-Role Support Vessel".
how many of these ships will be procured?
are there any front runners for this tender,I'm of the opinion that french 'Mistral' LHD is suited for India.
"There’s nothing new about the Tejas Mk1 LSP-8. It is identical to the LSP-7 in all respects."
If I remember correctly, the LSP-8 was delayed only because it had to improve the quality of some systems based upon the already gathered experience.
hi,
what do you think jf-17 comapare to,i think it is comparable to mirage 2000.But some guys claiming it to be comparable to F-16.
And Lca comparable to under current avionics and design To F-16 OR Gripen NG.
Prasun,
In light of the Kargil conflict does the IAF now regularly train at least some of its pilots in operating and combat in such terrain?
Also will the MSMC be delivered with the red dot sights as standard or is this an optional extra?
Prasun,
Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=sH0yz6rRy6s
Do you see this becoming standard fit on ALHs?
And will this become a standard peice of kit for all future Indian military helos?
Seems like India is now being offered the very latest tech (system has only nust been ordered for Germany's NH90s) and not "hand me downs".
Prasun,
I just watched a vid that said BAE were proposing adding a radar simulation MFD/capability to the IAF's HAWK MK.132s. So you see the IAF giving this the go ahead anytime soon? Seems like it would be a real book to train rookie IAF fighter jocks.
Hi Prasun
LSP 8 seems to have a bulge in place of the air intake near the the base of the vertical fin, are they proposing to close it, what was the intake meant for in the first place?,
regarding the naval version of the su-27 is it a full air ac supplied by ukaraine of a reverse copy of it, In that case i would assume that they have successfully
copied it as they have made landings and take offs from their carrier
Prasun,
Was the MI 28 technically inferior to the Apache coz of which it lost the competition ?
To VIKRAM GUHA: The short answer is: go for APS fitment on most if not all MBTs.
To AKHIL SURI: That’s not true at all. Racial attacks inside Russia are primarily directed against immigrants from Georgia, some Central Asian republics & the African continent & there are no Neo-Nazis inside Russia, just ultra-nationalist vigilantes.
To Anon@11.44PM: What tender??? It was only an RFI.
To Mr.RA 13: LSP-8 & LSP-7 are identical structurally as well as in terms of mission sensors/avionics. Therefore, prior to LSP-8 taking to the skies, one had to ensure that all the modifications & tweaking already done to LSP-7 were also incorporated on to LSP-8.
To UNKNOWN: Of course. MSMC will come with laser pointers & holographic sights whenever reqd. LOAMS is reqd only for those helicopters that are flying over urbanized terrain & need such aids to avoid transmission lines & other man-made obstacles. Therefore, such navigational aids are employed only by special operations-configured helicopters, civilian MEDEVAC helicopters & police observation helicopters. Built-in mission profile recorders for any aircraft, not just the Hawk Mk132, are extremely effective training tools for mission debriefs.
To RAD: It’s all explained at: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/03/tejas-mk1s-future-prospects.html
&
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/11/the-saga-of-liao-ning-16.html
To Anon@1.54PM: Of course.
Prasun,
Will the passing of the Arms Trade Treaty have a negative effect on Indian arms imports? And will it particularly affect Indian arms imports from specifically the US??
To UNKNOWN: Of course not. Will either the US or Russia ever draft any treaty that is counter-productive to their efforts to export weapons to lucrative markets like that of India???
A very simple & straight forward effort needs to be seriously made, in order to reduce weight of the 68 toms Arjun-MBT2 to around 50 tons; by replacing heavier RHA plates with Titanium nanometric alloy plates for a next Gen Kanchan armour design! If necessary DRDO-MoD, requires to tie-up with Japanese defense manufacturers and get nanometric alloys design technology...
I have a big problem. In the picture of 120mm FSAPDS can penetrate only 600mm of RHA. In an earlier exact pic it is 300mm. Why the difference? Which is the correct one?
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