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Tuesday, July 2, 2013

About Mounted Gun Systems



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Li Yin Yang said...

No matter how much India builds its military might what India needs primarily is to clean up its dirty laundry. China has nothing in common with Pakistan and the entire China-Pakistan nexus is a marriage of convenience. China would have a lot more positive involvement with India IF the Indian decision makers took up Chinese offers to settle the differences in a mature way. Regardless of the various indirect gestures and overt invitations New Delhi shows a pathetic "don't know about that mentality" and seems to perpetuate the status quo for someone in the future to take up and fix it for them. China likes BOLD and concrete decisions. China is not fazed or concerned by Indian military modernisation in fact it is quite the opposite - China would like to see India prosper and be a commercial competitor. but one can't expect to ignore one's neighbours and expect to find recognition out of town. Credibility comes from actions and what one has done closer to home. China will never cease to be an adversary because that is how politics work, but this doesn't need to be hostile cold war type. There has never been a war with India prior to 1962 so the blame must fall on the successive Indian leadership who have ignored this great historical leverage and helped brew a hostile, unhelpful and tit-for-tat mentality. The question remains - is India serious about being a world power and willing to take some bold decisions? Time will tell. Because no mounted gun will give an edge as much as political muscle and tactical decision making.

DAshu said...

in ur previous thread you stated US as a SOLE super power . see how US is kneeling down before Taliban and Pak axis to get a safe exit from Afghanistan .

DAshu said...

@ Li Yin Yang most of your statements are somewhat correct but how do u explain a recent incident where workers locked their boss . while apparently he was trying to shift factory from china to India .Though a mentally stable person won't think of shifting factory to India from any corner of the world.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the ans.

1.Was it very advisable to opt for P-8I ? Now P-8I will keep an watch over US subs. Being a US product USN and other intel and US military agencies already has the countermeasures for neutralising or degrading the capabilties of P-8I mission ssnsors.

2.Just like NSA has bugged and tapped various govt lines and cables,EU offices and embassies whats the gurantee that P-8I missions sensors and avionics hasnt been tapped or there are some secret modes which we are still unawrae of that can shut down the whole mission control architecture and other sensors of P-8I during any crisis.

3.Instead of buying more P-8I, IN needs to opt for the EADS , IAI MPA offer on Airbus A319 or opt for an MPA on Sukhoi SS100 and simultaneously upgrade and extend the TTSL of IL-38 and Tu-142. Putting all eggs in one's basket would be disastrous.

4.Is IA interested in helina version with Selex IR seeker for its Rudras?

5.But will any foreign prestigious OEM like Selex airborne systems sell off such high tech stuff as sar profiling seekers along with their production engineering data ?

6.Just like Prahaar seeker, the one being developed for Brahmos blk-3,mini Brahmos by Data Patterns is it also relying heavily on tech from Selex?

7.On whom is Alpha tech relying on for its missile seekers developement?

8.Caesar doesnt have the high automation found in contemporary MGS- Tata Denel howitzer,Atmos 2000.Even FH77B has a high degree of automation.

9.IA will nt look upon the air mobility requirement as a high priority.Plus theres C-17 .

10Atmos 2000 52 call 155mm version weighs around 22-23 t. Just like reducing fuel load of Rafale to carry more Tauruses C-130 can carry less fuel to compensate for the MTOW. Plus theres no need for so much fuel as all power projection will take place within Indian subcontinent.

11.Isnt the ASHWIN aesa radar for srsam already under developement by Data patterns for more than a year now?

12.What are these reports from desi news corps that tejas will be subjected to extensive weapons and weather trials commencinbg this October in various parts of the country ?

13.Does OFB Bolinger produce anti tank,frag,anti personnel bomblets and SFW carrying cargo rounds for M46 and Bofors or are they imported off the shelf ?

14.If there wasnt such illegal quarrying and mining going on aepic scale in the hill slopes and if the forets and tree cover would have bben preserved dont you think the ipamcts and consequences would have been much less?

15.How much longer will it take for Arihant to HAT and proceed to sea trials?

16.Does Terminator salvation sort of thing wheres theres a hidden signal in broadcast that does a specific job possilble in raelity or is ity only confined to Hollywood?Say someone broadcasts a signal and the various systems on P-8I just stop working when it is busy in the trail of an American SSN. America cant be trusted.

TNT said...

@Li Yin Yang
// "No matter how much India builds its military might what India needs primarily is to clean up its dirty laundry. China has nothing in common with Pakistan and the entire China-Pakistan nexus is a marriage of convenience. China would have a lot more positive involvement with India IF the Indian decision makers took up Chinese offers to settle the differences in a mature way. " //

Agree with certain points,but,who would decide what is this "mature way"?even if this "mature" settlement is done,will china take note on India's concerns of border issue with Pakistan and persuade the Pakistani establishment to abandon terror heavens in its territory? China has looked the other way, time and again it has blocked numerous UNSC resolutions at the behest of Pakistani establishment, these resolutions were aimed at banning certain terror groups and individuals for their terror acts in India.Now the Chinese govt blames US for unrest in xinjiang region,but on the contrary it has done the same thing by voting against the UNSC resolutions meant to ban Pakistani terror groups. Indirectly, china has helped the Pakistani Establishment to continue to fund terror.

// "Regardless of the various indirect gestures and overt invitations New Delhi shows a pathetic "don't know about that mentality" and seems to perpetuate the status quo for someone in the future to take up and fix it for them. China likes BOLD and concrete decisions. " //

it has lot to do with china not opening up.Not just India, even many nations have hard time dealing with china. There is wide belief that china fudges its economic report, many analysts doubt the Chinese on their military budget,some claim that the true Chinese military budget to be many times over what it has claimed. If china is so sincere,then why hide all this? why china prefers to keep matters concealed? the rigid media regulations, the internet censorship,jailing of anti govt activists,piling of military hardware without any official data or acknowledgment.what makes you think that these steps will not raise doubts in the mind of the people about actual Chinese motives? Even during the earthquakes, media as barred from coverage of the affected zones,there are many, many such incidences where china never came forward and opened up to the world.

//"China is not fazed or concerned by Indian military modernisation in fact it is quite the opposite - China would like to see India prosper and be a commercial competitor. but one can't expect to ignore one's neighbours and expect to find recognition out of town."//

we will have to agree to dis agree here.China has time and again raised many objections when India conducted joint naval exercises with other navies like that of japan,US and Australia.It sounded paranoid at that time.China had even blocked the loan for developmental projects in arunachal pradesh which was to be granted from a leading international bank to India. But continues to fund projects in Pakistan occupied Kashmir against India's will.

//"Credibility comes from actions and what one has done closer to home. China will never cease to be an adversary because that is how politics work, but this doesn't need to be hostile cold war type. There has never been a war with India prior to 1962 so the blame must fall on the successive Indian leadership who have ignored this great historical leverage and helped brew a hostile, unhelpful and tit-for-tat mentality. The question remains - is India serious about being a world power and willing to take some bold decisions? Time will tell. Because no mounted gun will give an edge as much as political muscle and tactical decision making." //

China even threatened India in support of Pakistan during our war with Pakistan. what credibility are you talking about?

Li Yin Yang said...

TNT, all of your questions were answered in my third sentence. Ask Mr Sengupta who takes a very unbiased view and understands the China-India relations. China will continue to be a competitor due to its own geo-political interest but that kind of adversarial relationship should no longer pose a threat to India's sovereignty as it is now. The Chinese didn't back Pakistan as much as opposed India. A lot of Chinese support for Pakistan is an overt gesture to the Indian establishment that perhaps it is better to seek an alternative to this lose-lose relationship and see areas where China and India can have a compromise like two siblings who choose different paths of career but they agree to disagree and pose no existential threat to each other. Mature way means just that - courage to stand up and defend one's rights at the same time accepting the same for the opposition and then working on the areas in common and defining boundaries where an agreement can never be reached. Ask Mr Sengupta who decided to sour the Indo-China relations first. To answer to your next point - how one country conducts its business within its own borders is that country's business even if you don't like it. On the other hand it is a bold decision to go on a path which you know will be disliked by others. China sees its involvement with Pakistan much the same way as India deals with the Tibetans. Exact views are replicated within Chinese military establishments as to why India defied Chinese requests and allowed a Tibetan government in exile and started hostilities long before Chinese invasion of India. Military exercises with other nations who are potentially opposed to Chinese expansion and growth is bound to create not paranoia but irritation. How would the Indians view a North Korea Pakistan and Chinese military exercise in the IOR? India's own military expansion and growth like the Agni-5 is seen as coming of age. why do you think Pakistan is more conciliatory to India lately and only rarely resorts to sabre rattling?

Sangos said...

@ Li Yin Yang - IF you are calling China's arming of Pakistan with nuclear weapons a marriage of convenience that marriage is certainly much more than convenient. As for the border issue some like me are waiting for the day China owns Tibet fully. So that the border can be settled the next day. Till the good days to come Indians are by now pretty used to some out of the blue Chinese claims like ex. "the whole of Arunachal Pradesh". In fact we will not be surprised this time around if the Chinese start a short border war to get the point across in their usual style.

MPatel said...

Li Yin Yang,

China is lucky to have a issues with India. If it was pakistan, you would now be fighting a full blown insurgency in both Turkistan and Tibet. This would create even more hatred for chinese around the globe (especially CA, ME and Africa) and for resourceless nation, that would hit on your growth big time. Currently 1/2 of your landmass in not chinese and you are trying to teach us lessons in compromise.

USA plan is currently to wean away pakistan from chinese influence. Your nightmare has always been the west and the north. It will come again. Remember one thing muslims of CA and pakistan have much much higher pain tolerance than you guys ever will...and oh they have tendency to dominate too. There is a reason why chinese pay pakistan.

If you think this through, you would make peace with India now, settle all border issues and focus west, north, south east and east.

Just for you information pakistan is not conciliatory but busy on its western border after having the NATO bow down to taliban. (Now NATO wants to turn the attention of these to guess what, turkistan.) To date most of pakistans forces are deployed near our western border. Guess you need to speak to your leaders to see some sense.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da,

It is a tragedy that we harbor dreams of becoming a superpower and yet GOI cannot even defend pilgrims from Nepali criminals .

Did you read those reports how the pilgrims in Uttrakhand were attacked and maimed by Nepalis in order to steal their valuables . Those who refused had their limbs chopped off . No wonder we have failed so miserably against Pakistan sponsored terrorism in the last 20 years.


Li Yin Yang said...

I respectfully accept your views whether agree or not. You will find answers to all your WHYs if you answer the same China has been asking for decades. Did China have a say in the demarcation of the current border? Given India has territorial claims same as China, but what made them Indian in the first place? After 1947 did India ever sit down with China to settle border disputes even before Pakistan came into the foray? Who signed Panchsheel and betrayed China and why? If you answer these questions you will accept the present complex relationship between India and China. Chinese position has always been "you don't need us to be your partner, keep us as your ally". Had the cards been played right from the start India would have been benefitting from the military technology instead of Pakistan and roads and infrastructure along the border would have helped commercial boom between the two nations. I mean look how civilly we can argue on this blog and can agree to disagree. Political differences don't make you people any less valuable. So why not think on a bigger scale and the adopt a similar line of thinking?

Abhishek Dhar said...

After blacklisting which contenders are left for-
1]Towed arty tender
2]Mounted gun system tender
3]SP arty tracked.


Sangos said...

@Li Yin Yang - I will ask a counter question "Why did China attack India in 1962?" I will also provide the answer ie the diplomatic one "It was a misunderstanding between the leaders". So lets us not rake up 'bad' history as the Chinese would say, with pointless questions.

rad said...

Li Yin Yang
Dont try to cover up your invasion and occupation of tibet , destroying their culture, murdering them and and arming rogue nations like pakistan , N korea and iran etc and supplying them nukes and missiles to wage a proxy war for you .
I realize that your country also has a great tradition and culture like ours, we have given you Buddhism and your famous kung fu basics by Bodhidharma. But mad men like Mao have destroyed your country in the name of revolution. We have our own Mad men so dont worry!Now after tibet you want arunachal pradesh , and you want the whole of the south china sea! you guys are mad! and you are warning Philippines of a war !! Bullying small nations . You will find such things are going to boomerang on you like india signing a treaty with Japan after some soldiers entered india and stayed there,More nations are going to come together against china in the course of time if you keep doing this.You seem to be suggesting that we be allies with you , we dont want to be allies with a communist state like yours with no accountability !! neither do we need roads on our border by you nor your copied cheated stolen military tech, we can get better ones from the free world , thank you . We will like to be friends with china which is governed by people like Confucius, and other great Chinese who visited india thousands of years ago to learn in the greatest university in the world at that time namely Nalanda in India .Till then forget friendship.


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To DASHU: No one is kneeling down before anybody. In fact, the Taliban’s office in Doha had to remove its name plaques & flags after the US had objected to them.

To SUBIR: 1, 2, 3 & 16) What’s wrong with obtaining P-8Is? Thinking along the lines suggested by you only conveys a sense of low self-esteem & crisis of confidence. In fact, if one were to follow your line-of-thought, then the PM of India ought to stop travelling by Air India B.747-400s just because they are of US origin & may be bugged! 5) Why not, if the right price is paid for? 6) Yes, what’s wrong with that? 7) The Israelis. 8) IA does not want such automation, which are good for only those countries that suffer from manpower deficiencies. 9) Air-mobility is one of the most important criteria for MGS. C-17A cannot make use of ALGs, C-130J-30s can. 10) ATMOS-2000 can’t git inside a C-130. 11) More than 2 years. 13) No. 14) Of course.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: More than the Nepalis, it was the local Indian policemen who fleeced the pilgrims. It’s been widely reported by OUTLOOK, THE WEEK & INDIA TODAY magazines of this week.

TO ABHISHEK DHAR: I had already posted that information in the DEFEXPO 2012 show report threads.

To RAD: No need at all to be diabolically hostile. A civilised exchange of opinions & views is always the preferred method. I for one haven’t yet seen anything hostile emanating from Li Yin Lang.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

China could not remain as a friend even with the USSR. During the cold war it blatantly sided with the US Empire with the Pakistan acting as the middleman. During the widespread days of the revolutions for the national liberation movements at Africa and Asia, China invariably fielded its own third teams everywhere for ultimately supporting the reactionaries and the counter revolutionaries.

Those who know China, can not support it except perhaps for the Pakistan and the USA.

Sayan said...

Sir, Sir, 140 hours till LCA achieves IOC-2

All present claims of IOC and FOC are ghoplas. By IOC and FOC i mean the so called IOC and FOC. ADA,HAL must have planes to acheive definite objectives, validate some performance parameters,test points, solve some technical glitches by November which will bring Tejas a step near operational deployment.This is being referred to as IOC,FOC by everyone.

But just a few days back RM asked all stakeholders of Tejas to achieve the SO CALLE IOC-2 by November.
Now Dr Chander has taken things in his own hands and is trying hard to acheive it by end September 2 months ahead of schedule. Will he succeed?

What did the journalist meant by Starting October this year, the Tejas platforms will be put through a literally endless routine of weather and weapons trials across the country Through the extensive test flights what does DRDO,ADA,HAL plan to accomplish? Expanding the flight envelope, certifying more weapons ???

Dr Chander in a function organised by FAPSIA has said they are working hard to get the production clearence by 2014 beginning. But my ques is if production clearence has not been received how was SP-1,2 assembled?

And if even the required clearance is received early next year why will it take to deliver 20 SP acs in 3 years considering that the first 2 sp will be handed over to IAF this year. The balance 18 can be built in just over 2 yaers keeping in mind that HAL has a Tejas capabilty of 8 acs per annum.

A few years back in 2010 or 11 perhaps an article came out that BDL was having the capacity to deliver 500 Akash per year. Now DRDO is claiming only 150 missiles are manufactured per year. How is DRDO and BDL planning to step up Akash production to 2000 missiles per year when 150 are being produced now. LoL.

Nota single thing coming out from the mouths of DRDO technocrats and bureaucrats are accurate or true. Just some days back DRDO DG was saying bmd phase 1 was ready for deployment in NCR next year. Now he is saying DRDO will decide whether AAD, PAD will be suitable for deployment in end '14.Incredible indeed.

And has the PDV launch again been postponed? Dr Chander said a BMD tri will take place in September. Is this the planned PDV launvh. His predeccsor has said last year that the 1st test flight of PDV was to take place in Jan of this year.

Has the IAF started deinducting its helicopters and fixed wing from 1st July ? Now only 18 IAF helicopters are operating in Uttarkhand along with 13 AAC choppers.

Will any IN GSAT layunch take place this year?

Iceman said...

sir it true that BDL produces only 150 akash missiles per annum?
2.long ago there is some report that BDL plans to construct a new missile manufacturing facility somewhere in Andhra Pradesh,what about it's status?
3.And last year there was some report that HAL is going to build a Light utility helicopter plant at Bidar and suddenly everything was muted.can you shed some light on it.
4.why can't India go for future helicopter programs on the lines of S-97 raider?
5.does Indian army wants Pantsyr missile system because it has a air defence guns in addition to the 57E6, 57E6-E missiles? rustom-h have a Indian SAR Radar?

TNT said...

@Li Yin Yang,

I respect your views here.Don't bother replying to fools who bash china as "cheap" or by any other names.Replying in a civilized manner is out of their reach.

Gentlemen,we are fortunate to have view a direct inside view of china presented by our Chinese friend here.All along this had been some boring stuff with some guys repeating the same question over and over again.But, there is some change now.So be a little professional and talk professionally.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1. A SSJ100 or Irkutsk MS21 can be made into a good 21st century MPA. IAI can provide the EL/M-2022V3 SAR/ISTAR radar and ESM, Russians the MAD and WASS or ATLAS sonobouys.

2.Uptill now why isnt Data Patterns or Alpha tech developing an active radar seeker for Akash sam?

3.Is IA still interested in tracked SPH ?

4.What contribution has Alpha tech made in the missile seekr field? Is any of seekers in op service ?

5.From where are the 155 mm cargo rounds and 130 mm cargo rounds sourced if OFB Bolinger doesnt produce them.

6.Whats the status of the upgunning and upgrading of around 800 M46 by Bharat Forge ?

7.Whats the status of OFB FH77 45 cal? Has it been handed to army for extensive trials?

8.Cant Rafael,Soltam modify and redeign the major compnets to make it fot inside a c-130.Afterall order of 816 guns isnt small.

9.Any new AAM and AGM deals for upgraded MiGs and su-30?

10.Nly 490 MICA and not a single agm or aasm or arm part of the armament deal of Mirage 2000 UPG upgrade?

11.PDV lauch one again psotponed.

12.Today drdo chief said radars being prepared for integrating them with bmd.Ws he talking about integration of radars for phase 2?

13.Can the fleet of 4 GSAT-7 provide accurate early warning and targetting and tracking crew and slew the fire control and engegment radar in that particular direction,sector and make up for a credible state of art early warning radar.

14.In 1971 war QRA or scramble took 5 min only. Cant today's frontline QRA organized like Victor alert where acs were ready to takeoff in a moments's notice.

15.Sir did some homework on UFOs. Many UFO logists think that ET deliberately diasbaled the ICBM and IRB, to take revenge for the research work being done thietr comarades by USA and Russia.
But this doesnt explain UFO sightings of India and UK. IA and PLA must have been stocking something of high destructive poower.It has a become a magnet for UFOs.

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
1."There is lot of demand from other countries for Akash, LCA and other defence products,” said the man behind the development of Agni missiles."

For Brahmos there is good demand from many countries. But for Akash and LCA? - looks like a tall claim!

2.“Instead of catching up with the technology we will soon start breaking the technology,’’ he said

What does it mean?

Li Yin Yang said...

Diplomacy is not always based on trust. Why do you think the USSR supported India? was it because of ideological commonality? No it was a strategic counter move against the US interest in the region. Why does Russia promote itself to be a friend? Financial advantages of course. Why is the US now trying to woo India? Strategic and financial objectives behind it. In fact a significant number of US politicians are dead set against India and from time to time they vent their fury. In fact the reason why smaller Indian neighbours are against India is because they perceive India bullies them and ignores them. Like I said before China will never be a bosom friend of India because the competitive game will never allow such. There will also be differences in geo-political interest and international alignment issues. But what is beneficial for both countries is to settle issues that can be settled diplomatically and as a result both countries will gain significant political leverage. Mr Sengupta already highlighted what these issues are. Remember the US does exactly what China is accused of - that is protecting its own interests. Why do you think NSA intercepts communication monitors and snoops on personal conversations? Is that not akin to a Communist dictatorship per the West's own definition? Whether a perception is right or wrong it is nonetheless a reality to the respective countries. Thank you Mr Sengupta for this enlightening blog and some folks who have actively engaged in an interesting discussion. I wish you all the very best and hope one day we will see our wishes fulfilled to both great nation's satisfaction.

financeblogger said...

Request for veracity of the report.

Littlemaster said...

Sir,How much work has progressed on the Mayavi ew suit?It was supposed to go on board Tejas 2.
Previosuly when DR VK was DRDO DG on an average how many test sorties were carried out each month ?
Both HAL and Dassault have setr aside their differences.This was reported in paris airshow. Are these indicative of the fact things are proceeding smoothly,final contract will be signed this year itself and MoD has received new funds fr this project as things are not being stalled now.
After returning back to drwaing boards and redesigning Astra ver 2.0 will be having a head on engagement range of just 44km.
Once ISRO GSLV mk2 passes all its fligh tests and lifts off a few Indian satellites, do you think Russia will send its GLONASS satellites through it as it has met with repeated failures with its Proton-M rockets. ISRO also provides commercial paylaod delivery at cheap rates comapred to other space agencies.

Sangos said...

@ Li Yin Yang - Fair points. However do not forget that even Diplomacy emanates from human beings not automatons. There has to be at least basic trust and respect for win win results. Unfortunately China's actions like arming Pakistan with nukes, recklessly violating border CBMs with India, leaves no scrap of meat sticking to the bone. China's actions border on strategic blindness. IMHO China is playing a game of brinkmanship and adventurism over a very unnatural situation ie undefined border with India.

parthvader89 said...

Dear Prasun,

What is the difference between the '155mm/52cal Mounted Gun System' category and '155mm/52cal Self Propelled Howitzer (Wheeled)' category?

Could you please provide an example for each?

More importantly, I think the Army is making a mistake by inducting 2 categories of towed howitzers (M777 ULH and 155mm/52cal towed). What role is the heavy towed gun supposed to play that MGS/Wheeled SPH can not? And on top of that, the DRDO is developing a towed gun? Is there a thing called strategy or planning in MoD?

Subir said...

@Parthavader Sir, MGS is Soltam Atmos, Caesar from NEXTER. wheeled howitzer are protceted automated systems like BAE Archer, Zuzana , Denel G-6.

Vikram Guha said...

Hello Li Yin Yang ,

I really appreciate that you took some time to explain to us Indians the Chinese viewpoint on various important topics .

Given the fact that both India and China are two great civilizations with a more than 5000 years history there is no reason why we cannot settle the border dispute amicably.

The only issue in my understanding is the supply of nuclear arms by China to Pakistan . Pakistan's foundation was laid on an anti Hindu platform ,they do NOT need any excuse to use it against us . Please note that India never sold nuclear arms to Vietnam or Taiwan or Phillipines .

That being said I hope that as the relations between India & China develop further , China's dependency on a banana republic like Pakistan will decrease .

Thanks once again .

-Vikram Guha

Ni8 Dweller said...

@Li Yin Yang - It's good to see you steering the conversation towards the right side against some blatant jingoism & I do see Chinese leadership have wisen up over the years & have moved on from making bad investments as in Pakistan and North Korea to being BOLD as in Africa where they moved on from 10 to 100 billion dollars in a span of 10 years and replicating the same else where in Latin America and Caribbean and all these giving them rich dividends. Gone are the heydays of Cultural revolutions under Mao.

Unfortunately, that's not the case in here as the Indian leadership is still garbling over Nehruvian socialism again and again and keep expecting different outcome.

Makes me to sing 'God save our Queen(Sonia)' for if only there is some sanity in her head will we be able to live off with less debts.

Pierre Zorin said...

Vikram you will find that China's arming of Pakistan although wrong, is meant to be a controlled affair meaning while they have the weapons on display, their usage would be strictly under Chinese control. I thought that was what Prasun was implying in an earlier discussion.Also regardless of the brave face shown, China knows it is isolated in many areas and the last thing they need is a muslim unrest within the Chinese provinces bordering on the CAR.P akistan is used as a stop gap measure, to do a deal, so they keep the Uighur unrest and Islamist agenda off China's backyard and in return they get a few "N-spices" to cook an nice anti-India curry!You have put a nice point though - regardless of how badly Indian leadership have missed the China boat, there is NO justification at all to supply N-protection to Pakistan knowing why they need it. India at least did not arm those countries you mentioned with any N-material or umbrella.

Anonymous said...


No sign of the second Agni V test yet. Is it due to the increased frequency of diplomatic interactions with the U.S ? Any decision to put Agni V testing on hold ? If so, unfortunate.

Pierre Zorin said...

Ni8Dweller - spot on. When you see so many academics in India with doctorate etc and then you see how India is ALWAYS late to seize opportunity you get completely baffled. How is it that Indian companies made so little progress in Africa, South America, Caribbean? Why is it India has to borrow money for Social development projects when the boom apparently is so strong? I mean who other than India maintains a five year plan? Soviets are gone, Mao was replaced by Deng's glasnost and perestroika and yet ONLY in India we seem to see the shadows of the USSR style economy cooked up with Western stuff a real mess- and people fighting under Mao's ideology! Not only Incredible India but Incredulous India!

Anonymous said...

welcome to the real world:

Vikram Guha said...

Pierre Zorin , actually my worst fear is not that Pakistan will fire a nuclear tipped missile at India . My fear is they will blow a "dirty bomb"in a major Indian city and cause unacceptable damages .

The thing is different components of a nuclear missile are stored at different places within a country . So jihadis in Pakistan need not have to steal an entire missile , they just have to get hold of the radioactive fissile materials that are used in a nuclear warhead and then follow a 26/11 style strategy.

This idea might sound difficult but in reality it is NOT . Give it a thought that in Pakistan if one male member of the family is in the army there are 10 other members of that family who are part of a jihadi group . Therefore, flow of knowledge or material from the army to the jihadis is a walk in a park .

Pierre Zorin said...

It appears the only thing Indians are good at these days is copying a Western lifestyle - there seems to be no difference between Hollywood and Bollywood. Just by making white girls dance before the public and catching Yana Gupta or someone without underwear does not make any difference to the fact the entire country is being robbed internally and run by people without any consideration for the greater nation.

Pierre Zorin said...

Vikram once again you sound right.The way internal security is in India regardless of how much you hear "being beefed up"nothing is done outside the leafy suburbs of VIPs and because average Indian is expendable nothing stops the terror masterminds from placing one of those in a busy veggie market! The fact they have not makes me think perhaps they care more about the ordinary folks because they know killing a thousand people will not make any difference in the elite hierarchy anyway!

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Sir,

Q-1 The sensor suite on the Pak-Fa prototype which you had elucidated upon, is it meant to be analogous to the AN/AAQ-37 F-35 Distributed Aperture System? How can the EOTS on the F-35 act as a replacement for the Sniper-XR pod and at the same time function as an IRST? Similarly the DAS is mentioned to incorporate 6 sensors which simultaneously provide Missile detection and tracking, Launch point detection, Situational awareness, IRST and cueing, Weapons support, Day/night navigation- how is this made possible? Will we see a similar system deployed on the FGFA? If so, has any concrete development on the same taken place or is it all still "planned"?

Q-2 Is the AMACA program still running? Why are HAL and DRDO refusing to see reason and shelve the project. The more I look the the "scale models" the more I seem to form an opinion, amateur albeit, that they are shaping it into a VLO fighter? WHY? Even if they get the VLO rated air-frame and required stealth shaping what use will it be? They can't possibly believe that they will be able to develop and produce the required 5th gen sensors/engines/production techniques at the same time? Why are they continuing with this folly? Surely there is someone of you caliber advising the MOD?

Q-3 I believe that we have suspended all patrols in the area where the recent Chinese incursion had taken place, is that true? If so then why have we taken such a step? You had opined that there was some reason to be optimistic in the border settlement- wrt to a plan being formulated and put into action soon- has there been any traction in this case?

Q-4 You had earlier stated that there were issues with the Rohini radar. Are steps being taken to fix these? What time-frame are such steps following if any?

Q-5 What happened to the competition between the ELTA Systems-built EL/M-2288 AD-STAR, THALES-built Ground Master 400, and SELEX Sistemi Integrati’s RAT-31SL? When will the competition be concluded, orders placed and systems received and made operational. Is there any timeline for all of this?

Q-6 Sir you had stated that we had stopped producing the Arudhra radars, correct me if I am wrong. IF so then are we now procuring them directly from Israel? If so has any contract been signed, any deliveries made. If such steps have not been taken yet then again is their any time table being followed?

Q-7 Sir you had stated that certain NPOL sonar systems develop problems in operation. Are there any active steps being taken to correct these issues? The IN seems to be content with the HUMSA and Panchendriya submarine sensor system, no?

Thank you for your valuable time and answers sir.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

At this rate, the Sun will stop setting in the Empire of China.

Ni8 Dweller said...

@Pierre Zorin - 'Not only Incredible India but Incredulous India!' One couldn't put it any better the sorry state of affair in here

@Vikram Guha - Regarding Dirty Bomb in Indian cities, no matter how virulent the jihadis behave they're at EOD mere tools & a means to an end, helmed most of the times by their Masters in ISI. Their Idea as General Zia puts it "Kabul must burn, and at right temperature, like water boiling in a kettle, must remain at precise degree. Remains hot but must not spurt out falling on us."

So when it's spurting out falling on them from all direction, they will try to wisen up & fend off such nuclear threats by non-state players. For them now it's like
"Kashmir must burn, and at right temperature, like water boiling in a kettle, must remain at precise degree. Remains hot but must not spurt out falling on us."

So that should be our worry not dirty bomb between it takes some sophistication to wean away fissile-material from a missile to make a dirty bomb. Those nut-jobs need to be knowledgeable but if they're they wouldn't be nut-jobs in the first place right? :)

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

(A)Late last year there were talks that Russia & India will sign civilian nuclear deals worth $45 billion .

Has any headway been made so far ?

(B) Has the Indian Army shelved their plans for Tank Recovery Vehicles ? Has any progress been made here .

Many thanks.

TNT said...

// "Anonymous
welcome to the real world: "//

same here,welcome to the real world:

the Iran Pakistan gas pipe line is a dead project.your govt is trying to fool the public by talking from its behind.The question when will the people of land of pure will come out of their retardation mode to the reality?

Iceman said...

1.what is exactly the range of astra missile?some sources say that it has a range of 80-110km while other sources say it has a range of 44km?does IAF plans to use this missile for both BVR and WVR role?
2.As drdo makes some steady progress in making MALE UAV's why do HAL wants to develop a MALE UAV?
3.what happened to the Nishant UAV?long ago indian army ordered about 11-12 nishants for evaluating its performance, does nishant failed in the user evaluation trials?

TNT said...

so it is amply clear now, after the big talk of "brotherhood" and all other crap, the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline project is dead.Shame that the Iranians did not see it coming.It was dead the moment Indians withdrew from it.The Chinese came in with promise of financing the project, and later backed out.Had heard that Russians were also interested,later backed out.No international bank is financing the project now, the Saudis and Americans are piling pressure on Pakistani govt.Well, welcome to the reality.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Till Iran does not makes amends with USA, its growth prospects will remain bleak and it may not be able to utilize its full potentials.

TNT said...

at least the BBC is putting india on the map

TNT said...

// "TNT

at least the BBC is putting india on the map "//

ohhh, you sad sad naive fool, couldn't you come up with your usual "raw13" username?

well, never mind, i don't expect much from you.just that you know, afghan army head revealed that Pakistan army was very much involved in the drone attacks.All the denial by the govt and the massive street demonstrations by your hero Imran khan was just to fool the ordinary people.

probably, the military might have been paid secretively by Americans to shut their pie hole after ever drone strike.we will never know this of course.

and the first comment in the article reads :

"Nothin new over here. I have relatives posted in Waziristan who themselves give coordinates to US to do drone strikes. I think our establishment should man up and openly state their policy of using drones instead of fearing God knows what"

better ask your spineless leaders to admit to the fact that they are well aware of the drone strike,and that their pockets are being filled by Americans.All the big drama at international forums saying that drones violate human rights, that drones strikes must stop etc etc made Pakistanis only look like bunch of jokers.Trying to convince the foreign media,leading demonstrations in western nations against drone strikes;never mind,continue the drama.

AKHIL SURI said...

Hi Prasun ,

Are the licences that the Govt Of India gives to private Indian companies for the manufacture of guns, rockets, artillery and missile systems difficult to procure ?


Pintu said...

Li Yin Yang, that is very first time, I have heard descent and more neutral view of a common Chinese, thanks for it, but what ever folly had been made, no way your country's use of force in 1962, is justified. And clearly that made overwhelming majority of us seeing your country as 'Enemy' state, that has hurt psychologically and rather solving border issue, only fueled Mistrust. Any ways , I have learned that Facts from Prasun Da's blog, in such a way that no body previously tried, many thanks Prasun Da, again nice to meet you Li

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: Actually, even during the height of the Cold War, China always stood for ‘China First’, a process that got accelerated under Paramount Leader Deng Xiaoping’s Four Modernisations’ programme starting 1976. And since then all efforts aimed at exporting Maoist revolutionary thoughts also came to an end. The interesting part is really about how China, while on one hand, championed the cause of African liberation, while on the other it sought & obtained the services of Canadians like Dr Gerald Bull & of military-industrial entities hailing from Spain & South Africa in order to accelerate the long-overdue force modernisation of the PLA—all this being a classic & textbook illustration of ‘realpolitik’ as practiced by the likes of Chanakya & Zhuge Liang.

SAYAN: Things don’t happen at the drop of the hat just because the RM decrees it. The last-mile delivery effort is always the most crucial ‘make-or-break’ part that involves certifying the airborne fire-control system, i.e. the mission computer & EL/M-2032 MMR & along with it all the weapons-delivery protocols. Consequently, those flight-tests will begin this October at various test-firing ranges in the plains & mountains. The airframe structure has long been frozen & does not require any redesign or re-engineering. Consequently, Tejas Mk1 SP-1’s & SP-2’s sub-systems & sub-assemblies have started arriving for airframe fabrication. Series-production of guided-SAMs takes time due to the need for upgrading the skills of BDL human resource pool. Only after the first two years of series-production at a rate of 150 per year will it be possible to ramp up production levels. GSAT-7 will be launched this August by ARIANESPACE from Kourou, French Guyana.

To ICEMAN: Ramping up series-production levels take time due to human resource constraints & lately, due to monetary constraints. Take a walk along any of the DPSU’s final; assembly lines & you’ll see all the jigs & tools being of imported origin. Consequently, in times of financial crunches, importation of such hardware comes to a standstill—something that happened before in the early 1990s. As for futuristic concepts like Sikorsky’s S-97, there are no takers in India (bit there are definitely in China) simply because the conservative mindsets of entities like HAL & end-users like India’s armed forces prevent them from thinking big or embracing transformative concepts with unbiaised minds. 5) No. 6) Definitely not.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) It’s not about can or cannot, but about the non-recurring R & D costs. Who’s going to pay the billions reqd for funding such projects? You? 2) Because no one asked them to do so. 3) Yes. 4) No. 5) Imported from abroad. 8) Again, who’s going to pay the billions of non-recurring up-front R & D expenses reqd for funding such projects? You? 9) No. 10) Those are always acquired in successive tranches. When the IAF received its Mirage 2000s in the mid-1980s, the weapons packages were ordered only 4 years after arrival of the aircraft. 12) What radars? L-band? X-band? Where are the X-band precision-tracking AESA radars that are reqd for missile-tracking during the various test-firings of ballistic missiles? Everyone else in the world uses such radars even for tracking SAMs like Barak-2. So, from where did two such radars recently arrive from for installation at ITR? And why has the DRDO failed to develop even a decent land-mobile pulse-Doppler meteorological radar (like the one used for SH-1) for the IA’s field artillery regiments? 13) It can, theoretically. 14) In 1971 QRA scrambles with MiG-21FLs were achieved within 57 seconds flat. 15) UFOs are found only around areas containing ready-to-fire WMDs. China & India don’t maintain their WMD arsenals in ready-to-fire state.

To SNTATA: 1) The Beidou (Compass) GPS satellite constellation of China is growing in size & will eventually cover the entire globe with 30 such satellites. 2) Someone should have asked this DRDO official to be specific about the term ‘interest’. Is it just academic, intellectual or industrial interest? Or is it a procurement-related interest? This also applies to BrahMos-1. And it is not about ‘breaking the technology’, but achieving technological breakthroughs, such as the hypersonic BrahMos-2.

To LI YIN YANG: Realpolitik dictates that both China & India always regard each other as both partners & competitors, depending on the contextualised spheres. However, overall, the degrees of convergence on a majority of the issues confronting both countries is way/much higher than the degree of divergences. Unfortunately & regrettably, for the average & non-discerning audience, what matters more is the perception of reality rather than reality itself & this consequently leads to over-simplification of issues & as a follow-on, focus & common-sense become the first inevitable casualties, as witnessed by some of the ill-conceived & ill-informed comments posted earlier in this thread. However, given my pessimistic optimist nature, I too can only hope that one day in the near future we will see our wishes fulfilled to both great nations’ satisfaction.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To FINANCEBLOGGER: It is a paid-for story by a ‘desi’ journalist who was treated to an all-expenses paid trip to Russia during the recently concluded IMDS 2013 maritime expo in St Petersubrg. Hence usage of terms like ‘may’, ‘could’ & ‘if’. In short, nothing definitive at all.

To LITTLEMASTER: ‘Mayawi’ EW suite is on Tejas Mk1. Previously, around seven test-sorties were flown on average per month. Dassault Aviation & HAL never had any differences to begin with. The ‘queries’ were raised at the behest of India’s Union MoF in order to prolong the price negotiations process & buy time. Russia will continue to use its own rockets for launching future GLONASS GPS satellites.

To SANGOS: On the contrary, China has converted Pakistan to a vassal state by ‘lending’ its TBMs, IRBMs & their nuclear warheads, thereby keeping Pakistan on a very tight leash. And by the way, just as an illustration of how the West unabashedly inflates its estimates of Pakistan’s WMD assets, it be of interest to all that the three PHWRs at Khushab always stay closed between January & May every year since the Chinese supervisors proceed to China during that period for the annual Chinese New year holidays—a fact that was recently revealed during a current-affairs talk-show on PTV. Now, use this fact to calculate exactly how much plutonium these reactors may have produced since late 1998. Also, there are no plutonium reprocessing plants inside Pakistan.

To PARTHVADER99: No difference at all, but an insidious game was played inside Army HQ since June 1999 over this issue, which is why this procurement project got delayed by 9 years. I’ll explain it all in the narrative above, which I will upload later tonight with new illustrations. In my own personal view, there’s no operational need for acquiring towed or tracked howitzers of any type at all. The IA ought to standardise on motorised (i.e. truck-mounted) 155mm/52-cal howitzers, or Mounted Gun Systems, while acquiring about 250 heliborne LW-155s for use only over mountainous terrain where there’s total lack of road/rail transportation infrastructure.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: Pakistan’s foundation as conceptualised by the Qaid-e-Azam wasn’t laid on any anti-religious platform. In reality, he wanted both countries to co-exist in the same way as the US & Canada. But the founding father of Pakistan had from day 1 had daggers drawn against him & against those who shared his thoughts, & the detractors were primarily the feudal-class of jaghirdaars, makhdooms & waderas—who continue to call the shots in Pakistan. These were the very people who distributed sweets (until the sweet-shops ran out of stocks) in Lalpur (now Faisalabad) when Gen Zia overthrew Z A Bhutto & in Lahore (the PML-N’s bastion) when Gen Musharaff overthrew Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif on October 12, 1999. And there’s no guarantee that such histories won’t ever repeat themselves again.
Even the so-called ‘dirty bombs’ require triggering devices & are by no means readily available. The more plausible alternative is usage of chemical nerve gas-type agents for mass slaughter. In any case, as I’ve explained above, no spent-fuel reprocessing takes place inside Pakistan. It never has.

To PIERRE ZORIN: I was indeed implying that. VMT for remembering. Just imagine the alternative, that of the so-called Islamic N-Bombs proliferating throughout the Middle East! And as for ‘Incredulous India’ what else can one expect when almost everyone is conditioned since birth to revere that over-simplified version of Ramayana written by Tulsidas, instead of the original Ramayana as scripted by Valmiki? Thus, fate & karma rule the roost, instead of logical reasoning & that’s why man-made calamities like the recent ones in Uttarakhand tend to repeatedly take place within India. The tendency, it seems, is to stay preoccupied with the peripherals & over-simplifications while totally ignoring the fundamentals & basics. Consequently, only decadence & regression will prevail.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: 1) AN/AAQ-37 EOTS is totally different from the FGFA’s twin-IRST sensor configuration. EOTS is for interleaved multi-mode engagements, whereas the IRST sensors on FGFA are for interleaved air-to-air applications only as of now. However, the Russians have developed conformal, distributed IRST apertures for air-to-ground applications as well & these were seen on the MiG-35’s belly below the engine bays & more advanced variants of these will also be on board the FGFA. 2) AMCA project is running only at the academic level. 3) Nothing has been suspended. Patrols by ITBP personnel are still routinely undertaken. The BDCA option is at present being actively pursued by both the MND & MoD & exchange of drafts & clarifications has already taken place. 4) They have to be fixed, for there’s no other alternative. The deficiencies were clearly explained by a senior IAF official at the pre-Aero India 2013 symposium & the entire presentation is available on YouTube. 5) No contracts have been signed to date. 6) No EL/M-2084 Arudhra MPRs were ever produced in India. They’re only being licence-assembled from semi-knocked-down kits supplied by ELTA Systems. Deliveries began way back in 2011. 7) Both HUMSA & USHUS cylindrical-array sonars are performing sub-optimally. Panchendriya is the complete sonar suite comprising the cylindrical bow-mounted sonar, flank-array sonars & seabed mapping sonar.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: A) That’s about Units 3, 4, 5 & 6 for Kudankulam. A similar cluster was earlier planned for Haripur in WB, but the TMC in its all-knowing wisdom & given its utter disdain for procuring real-estate for such purposes, has put an end for such a plan. B) Not at all. Arjun ARV is very much on the cards & is now being developed by CVRDE.

To ICEMAN: 44km is the engagement range when used in medium-altitide (between 5,000 feet & 20,000 feet ASL), while 80km is for higher altitudes above 50,000 feet. But will it be used by Tejas Mk1 MRCA? If yes, then why is it slated for flight-tests on board a Su-30MKI? Why not flight-test them on Tejas Mk1’s LSP-7 & LSP-8? 2) Where’s the so-called steady progress on the Rustom-1 MALE-UAV? The DRDO had promised way back in 2009 that the Rustom-1 will be available in an all-singing-and-dancing configuration by late 2012. HAL is developing a HALE-UAV powered by twin GTRE-developed Laghu Shakthi turbofans, i.e. a ‘desi’ version of the Talarion HALE-UAV from EADS/Cassidian. 3) Nishant is a tactical UAV with very limited endurance & is already operational in both J & K & Rajasthan.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TNT: There was always blatant hypocrisy against its own citizens on Islamabad’s part when it came down to the drone strikes, because the bone of contention was never about whether or not there ought to be such drone strikes, but over who ought to conduct such strikes & consequently since 2004 Islamabad has been asking the US to sell its Predators & Reapers to the Pakistan Army so that such strikes can be conducted by the PA against its own citizens in FATA.
Regarding the IP deal, it was doomed from the start since the foolish negotiators had pegged the price of gas with that of international crude oil prices & that too locked-down this pricing deal for the next 25 years without any flexibility. To top it all, all expectations of importing electricity from India have been dashed since India transmits electricity at a frequency that is totally different from that of Pakistan & therefore the power transmission protocols are totally different for the grid-stations of both countries. The only way out of this is for Pakistan to set up its own HVDC station at a cost of US$150 million someone in Lahore so that power from Amritsar can be exported at market prices. The problem here is that the HVDC plant will take 2.5 years to be delivered from abroad, & therefore will be of no use in terms of overcoming Pakistan’s immediate requirements.

To AKHIL SURI: Not difficult, but are prolonged affairs due to bureaucratic red-tape within the MoD, Union MOF & Union MHA. In addition, Indian OEMs are prevented from procuring explosive materials from OFB due to objections from DPSUs (by mischievously claiming that private-sector OEMs can’t be trusted to handle & secure such explosive materials). This was the main reason that drove out of business a small number of SMEs that had decided in the early 1990s to develop a family of electronic fuzes for various types of artillery rounds. And the sole beneficiary of this anti-national policy was ECIL, which today is the only supplier of such fuzes to OFB & all these fuzes are in fact imported wholly from REUTECH of South Africa & ECIL only licence-assembles them & puts ECIL stickers on the packed consignments! So much for the RM & DRDO for promoting indigenisation!!!

To PINTU: China can always turn back & make a counter-allegation about India & the US teaming up together since the mid-1950s to create the ARC & Special frontier Force & use them for infiltrating armed Tibetan saboteurs inside TAR via both NEFA & Nepal’s Mustan province. Also, India officially recognising China’s sovereignty over TAR in 1954 but choosing to accommodate the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile & Tibetan Govt-in-Exile on Indian soil doesn’t exactly go together like milk-and-sugar. In fact, they made a mockery of India’s non-aligned & Panchsheel policies—something no self-respecting Indian citizen can ever be proud of. Bottomline: actions always have consequences & therefore think 10 times through exhaustive & enlightening debates before taking the next step forward, irregardless of whether or not anyone else does it.

Pintu said...

Prasun Da, agree absolutely , and I hold the same opinion, in public interaction with any debate, but was not it the Chinese first attacking Indian posts in NEFA, in 1962, but I also think it was folly from our part for not solving the border issue with China , immediately after independence.

Pintu said...

I don't know how my question got deleted, however, I am re posting it,

Prasun Da, in recent times Top Officials in ISRO while interacting with media, emphasised on active participation by the Indian Private Sector in manufacturing Satellite Launch Vehicles, Satellites as well as Launching Satellites, any head way has been made in that direction ? Your views please,

Many Thanks in advance.

Pintu said...

Md. Morsi has been deposed,

Is it a set back for Iran ? Prasun Da, please share your views.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PINTU: Well, if you want to start by finding out which party exactly drew first-blood, then it was undoubtedly India that took the first offensive steps against China when she decided to join forces with the US in the mid-1950s to smuggle the Tibetan Khampa tribalfolk out of China, facilitate their transit through Dhaka on to the US, train them in guerrilla warfare in North Carolina, then bring them back to Dhaka with their weapons & from there fly them out directly over NEFA, WB, Bihar & UP all the way to Mustan & air-drop them—all this with the full approval of Pandit J Nehru & his then IB Director Bhola Nath Mullick & of course Biju Patnaik, whose airline KALINGA Air registered in Kolkata was used for the ferry-flights. This went on between the mid-1950s & 1962. It was from Kalinga Air that the ARC of R & AW was born & had it not been for Nehru’s pro-USASR tilt, then the first Indian entity to own & fly the C-130 would have been the ARC post-1962. India could have amicably & honourably solved the Sino-Indian border problem in 1956 & again in 1959, but deliberately lost both opportunities due to sheer foolhardiness.
The private-sector has always been involved in almost all of India’s space research & applications projects from the very outset, since the Chairman of ISRO reports directly to the Indian PM & therefore all bureaucratic red-tapes & favouritisms shown to DPSUs have been & are being easily bypassed & consequently no vested interests, trade unions & interested parties are allowed to function as middlemen or lobbyists or pressure groups. In other words, the chain of command is such that no one can sabotage or adversely influence the smooth functioning of ISRO or Antrix Corp. The same applies to the DAE as well & this was the main reason why the Union MoF had no objection when the Indian Navy chose L & T from, the private-sector to lead the industrial consortium for building the country’s first SSBN, the Arihant, instead of choosing a DPSU shipyard.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

In 1947 the Chinese leaders were still busy fighting the war for the people's democratic revolution with power emanating out of the barrel of the gun. So where was the time for them to discuss the border issues. After their victory, the Tibet question went on becoming hot and hotter.

However I agree with PKS that the erstwhile Indian leaders then did make some fundamental mistakes in dealing with the China on Tibet issue. However this shall not automatically justify the overall rigid stance of the Chinese.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PINTU: Not for Iran, but for Hamas. This is exactly what happens when mortal human beings try to convert any theocracy-based religious faith into political ideology—something that the pseudo-advocates of Hindutva in India haven’t yet been able to figure out. Religious faith is always about universal brotherhood & can therefore never degenerate into a country-specific political or territorial ideology. The moment human beings try to do so, they immediately falter, as did some of India’s Chief Ministers who, after the recent ecological disasters that had taken place in Uttarakhand, were more concerned about the plight & safety of the stranded pilgrims & had no word of sympathy at all & couldn’t care less for the local indigenous inhabitants of the disaster-struck areas of that state. These CMs also volunteered to spend the money of their states’ taxpayers on rebuilding those religious shrines that have been raised to the ground, instead of spending this money on rehabilitating those residents of Uttarakhand who have lost almost everything to the Wrath of the Gods of Yore. That's how selfish, self-conceited & deviant these champions of Hindutva are & they're all in the business of enjoying life at the expense of OPM, & they give a damn about the essence of Hindutva, which in reality is rooted in the philosophy of Vedanta.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

By the way, there seems to have been no feedback whatsoever about this:

This is an excellent & long-overdue documentary series on OPs Blue Star & Wood Rose (see: that describes the prelude, actual operations & the aftermath.

For those with less patience, parts 1, 5, 8 & 9 will be the more interesting ones. Part 1 reveals the true details about Maj Gen Shahbeg Singh, who prior to the 1971 War, was the mastermind behind the creation of the Mukti Bahini & he, then has a Brigadier & qualified parachutist had accomplished this feat almost single-handedly between April & November 1971. His nom de guerre then among the Mukti Bahini was ‘Baig Ali’. The IA & BSF had begun constructing POW camps in Tripura as early as April 1971. The TV-series also explains beautifully how the Govt of India failed miserably in retaining the services of Maj Gen Shahbeg Singh (for institutionalising the concepts & practices of unconventional warfare) after his career in the IA had ended & how & why he was pushed into the camp of J S Bhindranwalle.

Pintu said...

Mr. RA 13, intention should always be there, what the then official approach had from 1950 onwards,which I tried to mean, not in 1947, when India itself was 'Dominion' of Britain, an ally of the US, but message of intention for solving border issue amicably, can be given to both belligerent parties in Mainland China, i.e. both Chinese Communist Party and Kuomintang Party,also what Prasun Da informed, was not only mockery of Panchsheel but also NAM, which India was a founding member.

TNT said...

@Prasun K. Sengupta
// "
To LI YIN YANG: Realpolitik dictates that both China & India always regard each other as both partners & competitors, depending on the contextualised spheres. However, overall, the degrees of convergence on a majority of the issues confronting both countries is way/much higher than the degree of divergences. Unfortunately & regrettably, for the average & non-discerning audience, what matters more is the perception of reality rather than reality itself & this consequently leads to over-simplification of issues & as a follow-on, focus & common-sense become the first inevitable casualties, as witnessed by some of the ill-conceived & ill-informed comments posted earlier in this thread. However, given my pessimistic optimist nature, I too can only hope that one day in the near future we will see our wishes fulfilled to both great nations’ satisfaction. " //

prasun, no one here wants to see china as an eternal enemy, that's for sure.However,let us not be in haste to conclude that every move of china is to judge Indian leadership's maturity .Mistakes have been made in the past,but,china very well knows that every negotiation that it will enter with India, it will be relatively in advantageous position as compared to India.Negotiating as equals is not going to happen.As stated by our Chinese friend here,India and china are bound to remain as competitors, so china would not like to loose its edge over India by making any grand bargain,and it will be hard for India to accept the Chinese position in negotiations.We will continue demanding, china will continue to use its advantageous position over India.

Anonymous said...

dear mr li yin yang...
Thanks for providing views from other side. Your observations are balance and close to ground reality

Anonymous said...

Hello...........I am quite amazed at your patience in answering virtually each and every query/post..........excellent.....

and....Thanks !!!

Pierre Zorin said...

Anon 9:50 I am sure Prasun would say VMT but would it not be nice to at least seek a distinct handle in appreciation for his time and research? I mean he could charge a fee for answering questions.
Re: Op Blue Star: only matter of time when foreign funds and Chinese weaponry via Pakistan will make way for round two of another "stan "movement even though everyone knows how futile these "stan" claims are. But just as India used to be known for education and innovative excellence, land of Chanakya it appears the great nation instead these days remain content with politics before country, align pockets before the nation ideologies. Same old story - like Bin Laden Congress built Bhindranwalle, disowned him when he defied their authority, corrupt people allowed him to gather momentum and as a knee jerk reaction listened to bureaucrats than practical advisers and fell in the trap Bhindranwalle laid - simmering hate and perception of JS B was a Saint and rest of India dared to defile a sacred site. More blood shed more hatred and the honourable Sikhs turned against the nation they defended for centuries! Perfect ISI fodder too.You mentioned Prasun how Deng modernised Chinese military and reformed China. How amazing that all these years not 1 leader of such thinking and guts rose up in India. The fact they failed to utilise the clever and highly competent Shabeg Singh to their advantage is a shame to say the least. If it was the IDF conducting the operation, it would have been clean, swift and only the crooks would have been brought to justice and a very small collateral damage would have occurred. And pilferage from your own countrymen while doing your job? Did you not say the police fleeced pilgrims recently? These sorts of incidents make any Indian a laughing stock to the rest of the world. Take the ancient history away and today's India is not even worth fighting for. True patriots hang your head in shame.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the answers.

1.As the fire control system certification will begin this October can ADA,HAL solve the radome problem and correct the performance deficiencies within that time frame?

2.Is the radome being imported off the shelf from Israel? When the previous indigenous NAL radome has failed to acheive its required performance parameters, why is again DRDO looking at indigenous radome solns?

3.Maybe Dr Chander was telling about integration of Green pine LRTR and Ground master 400 MFCR with PDV and AD-1,2.

4.What exactly is transpiring in the minds of our RM? Why is he opposed to raising the FDI cap in defense sector? Cant he see the long term benefits behind this.

5.Why isnt IN replacing or fixing out its USHUS and HUMSA sonar complexes?How long will it going to depend on sub-optimal performances when PN is rapidly increasing the strentgh of its sub fleet both qualitatively and quantitatively.

6.Pls provide the link of that aero-india video of Rohini.

7.HAL Bangalore has been producing Hawk from indigenous sub assemblies for some time. Hawk is built to western standards and has machined compnents. Why cant HAL utilise the experience gained from this in Tejas mk1 production line ?

8.From when can one expect 2000 Akash production pa or even 500+ 2000 is too big a no ?

9.Why is evryone suddenly quiet esepcially DRDO technocrats about akash mk2? Bacvk in 2010 DRDO promised it will be ready by 2012 but its the 2nd half of 2013 and there is no news of it.

10.Even PA and PAF uses the Chinese HQ-19 MRSAM with 45 km range while we still dont have a true mrsam with 40+km range. Pak is well ahead of us in IADS .

11.What is the timeframe for first test flight and induction into service of AD-1,2. Isnt it being designed keeping in mind massed fire assults using TBM,NLOS-BSM AND MRBM. Our answer to THAAD.

12.Why do you say theoritically GDSAT-7 will be able to detect and track ballistic and NLOS-BSM launches? Japan's optronics are good .Imported GS400 or longer ranging EL/M-2084 Arudhras will do the rest of the job.

13.Today's jets have sophisticated avionics which requires some time to warm iup perha[ps. But isnt it posible to scramble under 5 min like in Cold war Victor alert. Many F-16 have served in that role and they are pretty sophisticated.

14.Cant MiG-21 bison take off under 3 min sir like the fl in 1971 altghough it ahs RLH0INS whereas fl didnt hv them.

Sangos said...

@ Prasun K. Sengupta - Am nor sure why as per your comment, we have to take the onus of blame for 'First Blood' based on a half truth. Starting 1955 the PLA was already threatening our border police with certain death in the middle sector and Shipki La in 1956. Btw the PLA had already surreptitiously built the Aksai Chin road to Xinjiang and Nehru was taken for a deceptive ride a full year before the India started aiding the Khampas in 1957. And we all know what happened in the Longju incident in Upper Subansiri (AP). Unless you are blaming Nehru's Forward Policy.

As for the China Pakistan nexus the bottom line factor is that China is playing Pakistan against India with nuke aid. That is all the information any man on the street needs to realize what that means about China's actions. Irrelevant to rationalize Pakistan's agreements with China for nukes.

Sangos said...

That India was contradicting itself when Nehru was supporting the Dalai Lama and TGIE is again a half truth. If India wanted to play the game of Tibetan Independence, Nehru could have easily used the Dalai Lama to pursue the Tibetan issue in the United Nations. A UN resolution in the 50s would have made China's new conquest very expensive indeed. Even China with all its realpolitik kool aid is unable to appreciate India's viewpoint to this day blinded by extreme hate for the Dalai Lama.

rad said...

HI Prasun
Tell us more about the glide bomb that seems to have a couple of flight tests so far according to dr sarswat as he was leaving office, any pics and write ups?

rad said...

hi prasun
the chinese WLR is pesa or aesa? looks like a knock of from the an-tpq-37 supplied to them before.
The chinese truck mounted guns seems to have more than a passing resemblance to the nexter. How did these guys get there hands on systems like the Dutch goal keeper CIWS to duplicate it, industrial espionage ?

Pierre Zorin said...

TNT after watching the videos and comments posted I have absolutely no doubt that the entire issue has been aided and abated from overseas where financial backing is derived. All the Khalistan zindabad emanates from overseas residents who have not bothered to research the truth. ISI uses this sentiments and must have a great hypnotic programme like the Manchurian Candidate. It is accepted that Indira Gandhi and the IA did a very poor planning before the operation. The execution was even shoddier playing into the hands of the villains. But the IA should never even been involved; What were the State leaders doing? What were the police doing? Even more disappointing - what were the Sikhs doing knowing well that their faith and century old noble religion were being abused right from the very heart of the Golden Temple? Murders, robberies and handsome donations pocketed by Jarnail Singh V- Is this what the Gurus fought for? When one says "wah di Guruji ka Khalsa wah di Gurujiki fateh" what is that khalsa and fateh? Taking a step back who created and elevated JS Vindrenwalle and his team? Now Sikh community especially in the UK and Canada are swayed by the misguided mantra of Khalistan which if it materialises will become KHALI or empty because Pakistan and China collaboration will absorb it straightaway and then obviously back to square one. All this is doing is ruining the already dented image of any Indian , making Indians a laughing stock as if from stone age (The British would say didn't we say they are a barbarian group glad we taught them civilised manners)and next will start a War on Terror against the Sikhs obviously causing hardship for good hardworking ordinary Sikh communities. I find it hard therefore to associate anymore with India regardless of the fact I was once born there. Among the many naïve and stupid mistakes I see in Governments everywhere, NONE even come close to what Indians are notorious for. At least Western leaders try to run the country whilst playing politics!

Bhaswar said...

Thank you for the answers Prasun Sir.

Q-1 But sir if the Rohini needs to be fixed then is their any movement on the issue? Same for the HUMSA?

Q-2 Sir in a CBG what is te distance maintained between the escorting ships and the carrier in general? I believe that the pics we generally see of a CBG with the carrier cruising along with the escort ships a few 100 meters behind or to its sides do not represent their formation during active operations?

Q-3 Furthermore wrt BARCAP flown by the carrier air-wing, is it a rotational thing, as in that their are always a few aircraft flying BARCAPs at any given moment once the carrier is in hostile waters? What sort of distance is the patrolling done at from the carrier?

AKHIL SURI said...

Thanks Prasun .

So does the pvt companies in India like L & T , Punj LLyod etc procure explosive materials from foreign nations or do they manufacture it in house ?

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Today being July 4th I was wondering why did it took India 170 years after the US attained independence to get it's own independence from the UK ?

The US had far fewer men fighting the Brits than India .

TNT said...


can non US origin be equipment integrated on p-8I platform? had heard that Israeli's were give exclusive right to fit in their own systems on board F-35 to suite their own weapons, can we have such a bargain?

There was a report that french are modifying their older C-130 aircraft into bombers,can we do this with our IL-76 platform by up-gradation or are these aircraft done with their life time?

sometime back,i had attended a interactive session where head of NAL(National Aerospace Laboratories: CSIR) said that they had conducted detailed study about modern systems and mechanism employed by bomber aircafts for dropping bombs,if this is the case, are they talking about fielding a bomber aircraft by modifying any existing aircraft or are there no plans of such kind?

Littlemaster said...

TNT Sir, you are spot on about Raw13. Their country is nw boiling with various shit loads of problems and diificulties and he has came to lecture us.

Sir,With collaboration with whom have Dare developed and productionised Myavi ew suite ? is it as good as Omul or ell8222? Does it has lpi modes .
After the Bison squadron revert to Tejas in end 2015 will the squadron Bisons be decommissioned or they will be handed over to tahta squadron using MiG-21M and those MiG-21m will be phased out ?
Isnt the first MiG-21bis entered IAF service in 1980 and the last left production line at HAL Nasik in 1986. Bisons are realitvely young.Jaguars and Mirage 2000 are older . Then why cant Bisons remain service after 2019?

Once the MGS starts getting inducted will they supplement the existing fleet of howitzers or rplace some of them ? 800 M46 which will be upgunned will remain in service along with the remaining Bofors. ? Why cant OFB and Mahindra form a JV with BAE systems for ToT for the 52 cal FH77BOL52 and integrate it with the rset of the the howitzer from OFB Jabalpur?
After Dr A.Chander has taken the reins hasnt things improved a lot with the Tejas? Previously there wasnt so many sorties taking place per month.

TNT said...


can non chinks do this or can we bargin?

prateek said...

sir ,
i am in the process of watching the golden temple documentaries referred by u above..
a few ques have arisen
1) if gen shabeg singh was removed due to some conniving & not due to to financial irregularities as alleged..then still y he being an army officer go to akali dal for help..isn't this outright wrong ??
2) gen. brar the 9 div commander says in his book..that he didn't know anything abt the ops till he reached chandigarh ??
then how can his chief of staff & 9 div. units started moving to amritsar w/o his consent ??
does ot mean he is lying in his book??
3) the documentary states that rashpal singh PA to bhindarawale called lt. col. anand sharma GSO(INT.) to know abt bsg aircraft carrying SF to amritsar..
sir , is it so easy to call up an officer & get to know abt force movements ??

WD said...

LOL....was this Chinese general living under rock when he said that India was the only country the world that is developing its military power because of China's military threat.AFAIK, the Vietnamese, the Philippines are also building up their military.The Japanese and Australians are equally concerned .The Americans are rapidly expanding their naval fleet in Asia pacific to counter the Chinese naval growth, and even the Russians are cautious about the Chinese military rise.

Tin Tin said...


i request you to delete the comment put up by a Pakistani friend here (@TNT July 4, 2013 at 10:15 PM),that man has used a derogatory term "chink".

mayank raj said...

hello sir....
What's the status of drdo awacs and aew&c which drdo was building and arjun mk 2....? Any dates of entry into forces..?

rad said...

hi Prasun
the russians keen to get the submarine order have said that they have an AIP sytem that dispenses with the need to store hydrogen and that they make them out of diesel, what is this new process , is it reliable?

Pierre Zorin said...

It appears someone is deliberately confusing us by using the TNT handle. Can the real TNT please get a BLOGGER ID? In the past too someone has been faking handles to cause trouble.

Pierre Zorin said...

By the way Prasun don't know if you know about this website but it is one fo the most comprehensive site about Sikhism. Sadly I notice that despite the fact they have put up the tenets of Sikhism they also have discredited those noble teachings by advocating revenge and the like. If one studies Guru Nanak's and subsequent nine Gurus teachings one can see how far fetched this Khalistan movement is. Gurus advocated religion less, caste less, discrimination less way of life where none of the Gurdwaras were to be sacred above another because God was everywhere and every Gurdwara is sacred wherever Guru Granth Sahib is installed. So the Golden Temple has historical and culturally significant but is not like the Kaaba as modern especially overseas Sikh communities are implying. Where is their practice of equality, forgiveness, service to all people and belief in the way of life? Khalistanis have made a mockery of the great 10 Gurus and their Guru Granth Sahib which contains writings by not only the Gurus but other sages who thought like the Gurus. I learned a lot from that website and even though my own beliefs are different and I believe in The Way, I would never hesitate now attend a Gurdwara and show my respect to the saintly men who founded a very practical religion. Just as well Guru Govind Singh made sure no further humans were elevated to the GURU rank otherwise instead of Sant Bhindernwale you would hear of Guru....Interestingly enough how do you Prasun understand all these languages? Urdu, Punjabi, Gurmukhi...I could not understand much from the interviews as I don't know Punjabi...well most Indian languages.

Pierre Zorin said...

Hope there are no English teachers reading my pieces - when I am passionate and type fast I lose concentration and sentences may read wrongly and several typos & omissions may be observed. My apologies.

TNT said...

@Pierre Zorin,

Main reason for khalistan movement is that "real" sikhs feel marginalised. They are a prod warrior people. This is especially true among the jat and rajput clan sikhs. If you talk to them they even say their origins are not of india but west and central asia. how to bring them back to the fold, if ever is the question. what will happen when the trade with paki increases? the poverty levels in punjab are also increasing, this may impact the khalistan movement. what if it starts to boil again?

Littlemaster said...

Sir, barring the 18 Su30k that were returned back to Russia will the IAF be having 310 su30mki considering that no more acs are lost.

spanky's Blog said...

Hi Prasun,
Saw reports that India has turned down Afghanistan's request for lethal arms. Is it a wise move?
Can you please deliberate about the implication of supplying or NOT supplying arms to Afghanistan?


Pierre Zorin said...

How can it be when Sikhism is relatively new and at that time Islam and Hinduism were very much prevalent.I have heard that Rajasthani people were of Mongol origin or something like that but people who converted to Sikhism definitely were spread across Indo-Pakistan region practising either Hinduism or Islam. The fact the Gurus were of Hindu origin is quite clear. So feeling marginalised is typical in India but claiming origin in Central Asia is utter nonsense. I mean where did Central Asians come from? 75% people bear semblance to South Asians so saying their origin is not Indian is crap. When you think of it what we know as India and Sri Lanka, the original inhabitants were dark skinned Dravidian people so India itself is a product of Aryan migration from the North West Statues unearthed at Mohenjo daro shows statuettes of dark dancing girl. This business of white people superior to dark people concept goes back centuries. In fact it is a common sentiment one finds in Southern India even today. The truth is where there is a mixed ethnicity like in India unless prosperity, social, economic and political inclusion filters through the ranks people will always feel they are better of with some STAN. It is a wonder though the ones that cause this social inequality, a whole bunch of inept politicians are not forced to live in some Moronistan. Very Sorry Prasun I have been taking up too much space lately (you can see my heart racing a million miles when I am fired up) and digressing from the SH gun! Please correct me if I have filled up people with any crap myself!

spanky's Blog said...

Hi Prasun,
Recently there has been no news on Rustom-1 UAV from DRDO.What happened to it?Seems it is not even being flight tested as there is no news from DRDO.Are there some technical hurdles encountered? what is the status of the project?
Also Rustom-H prototype is supposed to be rolled out by 2014. Any info you have on that?


Sayan said...

Sir, What approach are all the stakeholders of Tejas taking regarding the sourcing of radome and thw swift completion of the fire control systems trials and fine tuning ?

Just like JF-17 is employing diverteeless intakes for maximum agility and controllabilty at high alltidues greater than 40k ft what is Tejas employing?

Regarding Sudarshan LGB kits is there any glide wing version of it ? Janes was re;porting of a glide wing Sudarshan kit.

In his exclusive interview to Headlines today DRDO chief said "Ballistic missile defence capabilities of our adversaries will also grow in the years to come. As far as our BMD is concerned, we are now poised for take-off. We've done a lot of tests, need to do perhaps a few more tests. With that, we will be ready to intercept missiles upto a range of 2,000km. That system we will be able to start deploying. At the same time, our effort to develop a system to intercept missiles with a range of 5,000km is underway. Testing of those missiles is one of the limitations we have by virtue of the geometry of the country. We are working on the development of new ranges, so we can fire for a longer distance."

Drdo is planning a few more phase 1 endo and exo interceptor launches.Something well is definitely brewing silently within DRDO quaters. What do u thnk about the launches. So many phase 1 launches for a tech demonstrator is unsual.

How much geographical area coverage will the 4 GSAT-7 provide ias an early warning and missile tracking sensor?Wont it be a great addition to our intel agencies in keeping track of all 2nd artillery corps and PA ballistic missile launcxhes and learn more about their trajectories in real time? The dfata gathered will help in fine tuning the fire control elements and interceptors of the bmd.

Ducted throttle ramjets like Meteors are avialable from Vympel of Russia nowadays.Why isnt there are no takers for such missiles within the IAF for the MiG-29 and Su30 fleets?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) What time-frame? The new radome will have to be subjected to 80 hours of flight tests at different altitudes under different climatic conditions between October 2013 & June 2014. 2) Radome has already been imported. 3) That seems most far-fetched. Only 2 x Green Pine radars were sold to India ONLY FOR R & D purposes, not for operational deployment & I said that several times before & so far no one from the DRDO or MoD has contradicted me of refuted my assertions. 4) The RM is clearly clueless about what he’s talking about. BrahMos Aerospace Pvt Ltd already exists with 49% Russian shareholding & 51% Indian shareholding since February 1998—so what’s all this bullshit about capping FDI in military-industrial entities to 26%!!! I can take the MoD to a court of law any given day & challenge such inconsistencies & win my case hands down! 5) Deficiencies in human resources especially for high-tech R & D can’t be solved overnight. 6) Why? Don’t believe me? Alright, get prepared to get terribly depressed by watching this:
7) Hawk Mk132’s fuselage construction too uses rivetting & is therefore incompatible with those fuselage construction expertise that’s reqd for Tejas Mk1. 8) After another three years at the very least. 9) Deficiencies in human resources especially for high-tech R & D can’t be solved overnight. 10) No HQ-19 MR-SAMs are in service in Pakistan. Only Raytheon’s MIM-23B I-Hawk are there. 11) No timeframes exists as of now. Only technology demonstrators are being developed for starters. 12) No single sensor can provide accurate target tracking data. At least 3 are reqd for triangulation. 14) Never. RLG-INS takes longer to activate than dry-tuned gyros.

SANGOS: Threatening someone with dire consequences is totally different from actually shedding blood. No one surreptitiously built anything. NH-219 was built in full view of the whole world over an area which India herself had discarded between 1947 & 1954 & I had uploaded the Surveyor’s Map of India a few threads back to prove this. India came to know about NH-219’s construction in 1953 itself, but this was kept hidden from Indian citizens till 1959. Under the then IB Director Bhola Nath Mullik in 1949, the IB had held a conference on risks associated with Chinese infiltration. Despite Mullik’s concerns, Nehru downplayed the potential Chinese threat. Not only did he think it ludicrous to prepare for a full-scale Chinese attack, but he saw real benefits in cultivating Beijing to offset Pakistan’s emerging strategy of anti-communist cooperation with the West. It was thus Nehru’s idealism against hard-headed Chinese realism that made India the loser from the outset. Of course the Forward Policy was totally flawed & reckless & it was borne out by the results of EX LAAL QILA that was staged by the IA prior to the 1962 hostilities. What everyone, not just China, understands is that India played her cards wrong by on one hand recognising China’s sovereignty over TAR & on the other extended full support for the jamak (guerrilla operations) inside TAR.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: The glide-bomb is being redesigned & re-engineered to get rid of the wobbling after ejection from the pylon. The CETC-built WLRs are all planar-array & are clones of TPQ-36 & TPQ-37. The former is used for SH-1/SH-2 motorised 155mm/122mm howitzers, while the latter is used for long-range MBRLs.

To PIERRE ZORIN: The fact of the matter is that the Govt of India itself was complicit as far as smuggling weapons inside the Golden temple Complex went. This has been documented in detail by several ex-IB officials. Secondly, the Govt of India never stepped in to nip in the bud cultural animosities between residents of Haryana & Punjab since the early 1980s, thereby facilitating the rise of political organisations with firm religious routes (like the Akali Dal). Thirdly, the staging of OP Bluestar was totally flawed both conceptually & organisationally & what ought to have been done was to just surround the complex & sit tight, as was the case during OP BLACK THUNDER a few years later. Fourthly, the Khalistan movement was just a mask worn for securing the real objectives of the Sikh youth, i.e. the craze for migrating abroad in search of greener pastures, especially in Western Europe, Canada & Australia by giving the excuse of political/cultural persecution & thereby seeking political asylum. Fifthly, several Sikhs, like other Punjabis, being highly territorial, used the civil disorder prevailing in Punjab in the 1980s to settle personal scores connected with land ownership, i.e. family blood feuds running for generations. This has been documented by several neutral studies as being the major reason for 70% of the civilian deaths in that period in Punjab. I myself have over the years met several Sikhs in Southeast Asia who fled India after committing such murders & settled down in various Southeast Asian countries by assuming new identities & marrying the local women & forsaking their earlier married women & children based in India. It is this group of people that are now fighting their probable extraditions back to India tooth-and-nail & are always the first to raise the bogey of persecution in India. The remainder of civilian deaths within Punjab took place in staged encounters or revenge killings, which had to be undertaken by Punjab Police after the Sikh terrorists started targetting the families & relatives of State Police officials & the State Police retaliated in kind & thereby succeeded in neutralising this threat. As for the colonial Brits they can say whatever they want to about the Sikhs being barbarians, but the fact remains that the Brits were held at bay by the likes of Maharaja Ranjit Singh & the Brits could never achieve what the Maharaja had achieved in today’s NWFP & FATA of Pakistan, i.e. subjugating the rebellious Pathans & Pashtuns locals of these areas through sheer brutality. Had the Brits using the Sikh mercenaries in large numbers (instead of the Biharis) during the two Afghan campaigns in the 19th century, the story of Afghanistan would have been totally different today. For it was such Sklh mercenaries that were used by the Brits against the Chinese during the Boxer rebellions & against the Tibetans against the 19th century—all of which led to the Chinese dreading & hating the Sikhs for their sheer grit & bravery.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: 1) There has to be, for there is no other alternative. Rohini-related problems are solvable, but those of HUMSA will take a much longer time. 2) About 200 metres. 3) About 200nm.

To AKHIL SURI: Are you kidding? No explosive materials—local or imported--are allowed for any private-sector company, period. Why do you think L & T is only fabricating the Pinaka MBRL launchers, while only OFB is producing the rockets? The only private company that is allowed access to explosives is BrahMos Aerospace Pvt Ltd.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: That’s easily explained: in the US at that time there was unity of command & purpose, whereas in India that was never the case since the days of Pourus versus Alexander. One always had someone who was the ever-willing traitor in India, such as Jaichand against Prithviraj Chauhan & Mir Jaafar against Siraj-ud-Daulah. In early 20th century India the likes of M K Gandhi & Nehru were more than satisfied to have only Dominion Status (like Australia & New Zealand). It was only the likes to Lokmanya Baal Ganghadhar Tilak & much later Subhas Chandra Bose that demanded full & unconditional swaraj & freedom. I personally therefore believe that it should have been Lokmanya Baal Ganghadhar Tilak should have been bestowed with the title of ‘Father of the Nation’ for being the first Congress leader to clearly state that “Swaraj is my birthright & I shall have it”. The colonial Brits also grasped the fact that ‘divide & rule’ had historically worked very well against India & exploited this faultline to the hilt. In fact, even post-independence, successive Govts of India have always used this tactics against various insurgent/separatist movements in the North East & Punjab. Thus, the Bodoland movement in Assam was the brainchild of Hiteshwar Saikia against the AASU/AGP & later the ULFA, while Jarnail Singh Bhindranwalle was propped up by Giani Zail Singh against the Akali Dal, & TELO & EPRLF were created against the LTTE.

To TNT: Of course they can & have been. I had already uploaded data on all this last May in a thread on P-8I. Any transport aircraft can be used as bombers for carpet bombing. The IAF’s An-12Bs were used in such roles during the India-Pakistan wars. NAL & CSIR had both conducted wind-tunnel tests for weapon-drop simulation data & CSIR had built wind-tunnel scale-models for such weapons from platforms like Tejas Mk1, MiG-29, Jaguar IS & Su-30MKI, and not for any transport aircraft.

To LITTLEMASTER: The OMUT on MiG-29K & EL/L-8222 on Tejas Mk1 & Jaguar are superior to the CW/PW internal jammer developed by DARE. All MiG-21 Bisons will be decommissioned by 2017. The airframe & engine TTSLs of this aircraft are much lesser than for the Jaguars & Mirage 2000s. One person at the top can’t claim credit for turning things around overnight.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TNT: Let’s get this straight. If you have had the experience of dealing with the Chinese psyche as I have had since 1987, then by now you would have realised that such statements only tantamount to PANIC on the part of the PLA. That’s because the PLA’s forces deployed against Arunachal Pradesh are not only numerically inferior, but also take a longer time to acclimatise than those of the IA since those PLA forces are deployed for the most part in Sichuan province & have the chance to acclimatise only once every year during exercises. Were the PLA to permanently deploy its forces opposite AP, it would have serious manpower & financial problems at a time when the PLA is busy investing its resources into areas that require far more attention, i.e. against North Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Taiwan, the US, Vietnam & The Philippines. The utterances of this PLA official therefore tantamount to a sign of desperation & what he’s saying is that the last thing the PLA wants at this time is a conventional forces build-up against India throughout TAR.
As for India’s nuclear WMDs being China-specific, the official is spot-on & it needs to be stated here that India made TWO CARDINAL MISTAKES after May 11/13, 1998. Firstly, the then PM A B Vajpayee in his letter to President Bill Clinton openly named China as being the reason why India had gone overt as a nuclear weapons state. This was a terrible diplomatic blunder & Bill Clinton predictably made leaked this letter to the media. Secondly, when commissioning the drafting of India’s Draft Nuclear Doctrine, the PMO in mid-1998 specifically instructed the person entrusted with the task of drafting this doctrine—Dr Amitabh Mattoo—then a member of the National Security Advisory Board & attached to JNU, to do the drafting by consulting only civilian Indian officials & keeping India’s armed armed forces totally out of the loop (i.e. not even letting them know that such a drafting exercise was in progress) during the drafting process. Exactly why the likes of A B Vajpayee & Brajesh Mishra issued such bizarre instructions remains a mystery till this day.

To PRATEEK SINGH: 1) He approached the politicians AFTER his retirement from service. 2) K S Brar at that time had already handed over temporary command to his Chief-of-Staff (CoS) in lieu of his departure on leave for Manila. In such a scenario, the CoS becomes the acting GOC of 9 Infantry Div. 3) Yes, it is, because in India, unlike in other countries, most air bases are co-located with civilian airports & both make use of the same runway. Therefore, OPSEC is always likely to be compromised.

WD: You got it totally wrong dude. What the PLA’s official was saying was that India is the only country that has stated on record that her nuclear WMDs are China-specific. And that is a fact, which became known only after Bill Clinton leaked the letter written to him by A B Vajpayee.

To MAYANK RAJ: No earth-shattering updates or progress reports, I’m afraid.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIERRE ZORIN: Regretfully, such religious & cultural oversimplifications are the bane of not only the Sikhs, but also of others as well, thanks to common-sense becoming extinct within the subcontinent. For instance, one need not be a rocket scientist to grasp the fact that monuments like temples or mosques or churches are man-made & have not descended or parachuted down from the heavens, i.e. they don’t have divine status. They can be built, broken & re-built again & again like the Somnath Temple o Gujarat was. Yet, oversimplification of this fact of life results in a belief that if such structures are demolished or desecrated, then the entire religious philosophy (which has descended from divinity) too will suffer from extinction. Somehow, the majority of human beings tend to perceive divinity through mortal eyes & brains & consequently there emerges a fundamental disconnect that is unable to distinguish divinity from man-made objects & edicts. Thus, for instance, the majority in India are loathe to distinguish between religious philosophy, sects & cults. Consequently, Vedic philosophy gets diluted into Vaishnavite & Shaivite sects & these sects in turn get diluted into cults like the Bhakti cult/ISKON (followers of Lord Krishna in the cow-belts of India), Buddhism, Arya Samaj, Brahmo Samaj, Ramkrishna Mission, VHP, etc. The same holds true for Muslims, Christians & Sikhs as well (since they owe allegiance different Taksals). Ask any ‘Hindu’ why he/she desists from eating pork or beef & pat will come the answer: because I was told to do so by my parents/grandparents. Never do they realise that such edicts were never mentioned in either the Vedas or Upanishads, but became the rules as conceived & practiced by sects & cults. Consequently, in the course of such a discourse, the basics & fundamentals are buried & forgotten forever, the peripherals tend to roost & one therefore neds up missing the woods for the trees. The same goes for the Muslims of the subcontinent who are told that their history begins only with the Arabian Mohd bin Qasim’s invasion of Sind in 10th century AD & everythinbg else before that—like King Pourus, or Emperor Ashoka the Great or Emperor Chandragupta Maurya—is irrelevant. In Malaysia, for instance, the country’s history & culture begins from only the 15th century when the Hindu King Parameshwara from Indonesia’s Riau archipelago (in the South China Sea) migrated to Melaka & established the Melaka Sultanate by converting to Islam & renaming himself as Iskandar. Technically, what this means is that the Muslim Malays were then not the original inhabitants of Malaya (since they parachuted into Malaya only in the 15th century & that the original inhabitants were someone else who were owing allegiance to other religions (probably those being practiced at that time in Sumatra, Java, Thailand & Cambodia) or were animists.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TNT: Nothing of the type you’ve described is boiling inside Punjab. What is instead happening is that more & more Sikhs are no longer interested in farming & have therefore sold their real estates & have become filthy rich & are looking for all possible ways of investing their money in either India or abroad. I myself have over the years met several Sikhs in Southeast Asia who fled India after committing such murders & settled down in various Southeast Asian countries by assuming new identities & marrying the local women & forsaking their earlier married women & children based in India. It is this group of people that are now fighting their probable extraditions back to India tooth-and-nail & are always the first to raise the bogey of persecution in India.

To LITTLEMASTER: Ultimate target is 350 Su-30MKIs.

To SPANKY’s BLOG/SWAROP: That’s totally untrue. The requests are still being processed & two-thirds of it will be approved since every sovereign country has every right to arm itself for self-defence. Supplying a few Batteries of 105mm LFGs along with night-vision equipment, ammo resupply vehicles & field service vehicles cannot possibly be used by Afghanistan to wage full-scale war against any other neighbouring country. And in case India desists from selling hardware like Rudra helicopter gunships, Kabul can always find alternatives from China & Russia, rest assured. Regarding Rustom-1, laboratory-level integration is now underway to attach an ELTA Systems-built EL/M-2055 SAR payload on one of the prototypes. Rustom-2’s prototype is being fabricated by the ADE with help from BEL.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SPANKY's BLOG/SWAROP: Do read this:

Makes one wonder why the DRDO never comes up with such common-sensical solutions!

Mr. Ra 13 said...

A nice development by MIT of India.

And who said that the commonsense was so common.

Anonymous said...

prasun sir

1)what is the status of NAL Saras? They were supposed to test it in february.
2)What's your take on the following news?

3) How bright do you think is india's civil aviation sector in next decade?


Tin Tin said...

your thoughts on this.

joydeep ghosh said...


Prasun da

perhaps for the 1st time i saw long conversations happening between participants in your blog.

a few things i want to share

1. US / UK not leaving Afganistan for next 10 yrs this is the reason perhaps India refused to provide military aid to them

2. I see a Sikkim happening in Bhutan in near future

3. Situation in J&K is set to worsen in next 1 yr

4. The 200 km tunnel link between China - Pak is perhaps the last straw for India & now we can expect to see some proactiveness by India regarding Baltistan if not Gilgit

5. It may result in India getting Baltistan in west & creating lasting peace with Pak while reorganizing the border till the west of Aksai Chin highway in the east. there by a win win result for all 3 parties.

6. It is perhaps this that China hopes will satisfy India and may stop its activities which are like pin prick to China when its banging head with situation in its east coast and south seas.

6. It also perhaps goes in line with Chinese works which are if i am not wrong mostly in Gilgit area.

7. It is perhaps this reason that China through its papers or lose cannons is trying to get India to agree to a deal, but whatever it is India must not sign the BDCA.

8. I see IAF flying upto 350 Su30, 126+63+60 Rafales, 40 LCA1+150 LCA2+ 100 LCA3 (the stealth version if at all given thought)+ 200 FGFA once migs, jaguars, mirages retire but this leaves no space for AMCA (200-250 of which are supposedly needed)

9. Lastly a good 3D animated creation i found about Indias INS Arihant which perhaps describes whether it will be used as SSGN or SSBN, whats your opinion on this?

hope you dont feel irritated


Joydeep Ghosh

rad said...

Hi prasun
Your depth of history and religion is really astounding i dint realise that , but war and history go together as i realise.Religion and the concept of god took a beating during the tsunami of Indonesia, and other affected countries as a people of all faiths perished , muslims in indonesia , budhists in srilanka with hindus christians and muslims in india , during the iraq iran war both sides shouted allah oh akbar and killed each other, in the 2nd world war christians killed christians, hindus did the same here. where was god .I met an indian 95 year old christian veteran officer who was commisioned in the queens army in the british raj .He told me that he was a staunch christian and witnessed the cold blooded murder of hindus and muslims killing each other in the name of god and religion . He commanded a baloch regiment and ordered his men to open fire on any looters and murders to stop them as nothing could be done . After witnessing that he still questions the existence of god.!!

Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the answers.

1.From whom were the radomes imported ? IAI, Rafael ?

2.Will just 80 hours of flight testing suffice for fire control system certification and optimisation?

3.By integration of those radars I meant they were being integrated with the other elements of phase 2 stage of bmd for R&D and the test firing of the PDV Exo atmospheric interceptor.

4.EL/M-2080 Green pine may have been exported by Israel for R&D purposes of BMD but with Ground master MFCR/400 from Thales Raytheon there are no such limitations. GS400 is partcipating in the tender for long range radars of IAF.

5.All the 3 contenders in the tender have ABM early detection and precison tracking modes.These radars can perform both long range air survellience roles and at the same time acting as atrgetting and tracking radars for PDV,AD-1,2.

6.Regarding the link i just wanted to watch how bad matters were. Its really depressing. Unable to properly engineer a ground based large PESA radar and Drdo technocrats are nw talikng about develpoing an aesa MMR for Tejas mk2. This ought to be suspended downright and the valuable tax payer's money be spent on fulfilling the immediate operational requirements of Army,Navy and airforce.

7.Cant IN just replace the whole HUMSA and USHUS sonar conmplexes with a foreign off the shelf soln from underwater gianst like Wass,Atlas? IN can also replace those crucial subsystems on which the system performance is dependant with compatible plug and play foreign sub compnents and assemblies.

8.Besides Hawk isnt PAF and PA having any other credible and modern MRSAMs?

9.How many M109 Paladins is PA having ?

10.Eventually we will be having a pack of 4 GSAT-7.Then how will matters stand wrt to early missile warning and precision tracking of ballistic missile threats?

11.MiG-29 doesnt have any RLG .Isnt it capable of scrambling in under 5 mins ?

12.Whast the scramble time for Typhoon, Rafale,F-15SG ... from the momnet an intruder is detected?

13.Has the IA begun exhaustive field trials of the Jabalpur desi Bofors guns ? Is it satisfied with its perfoemance?

14.With the numberplating of many MiG-21 squadrons what is providing MOFTU training to IAF MiG pilots?

15.CAS recently told that MiG-21Bisons will conyinue to humbly serve till 2019.

16.When can the signing of the final batches of su30 mki be expected?

17.Besides Brahmos LACM having an indigenous light weight seeker and without the booster isnt Brahmos aerospace limited also developing Brahmos mini which will be lighter and can be carried by MiG-29K and Raf?

18.How many Brahmos mini can a 30 carry and will it offer similarformances as Brahjmos ALCM- 290 km range, Mach 3+ cruise speed, 200 kg penetraing warhead?

19. And when can the rest of this thread be expected to be uplaoded and the thread on IA artillery modernisation incorporating all those you have learned in the recnt Firepower 2013 seminars.

spanky's Blog said...

Hi Prasun,
Thanks for the link. That really a innovative idea and most importantly very simple. Could be great help with anti naxal missions.
Why DRDO do not think of it? The answer is very simple.It doesn't have the hype or bang about it.If watch carefully DRDO always try to do things which will be eye catching and also can be hyped.Then the DRDO chief in every interview will keep bragging about it and keep giving unrealistic time line for induction.
These simple solutions will not give them that boast advantage.


DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Your vivid description of battles fought by Sikhs was refreshing .

However, why didn't Hindus become as successful a warrior class as Sikhs as Sikh gurus were all Hindus ?

How good a fighting force were the Sikhs when compared to Slavs , HUns or Tartars who captured large tracts of land worldwide ?

Thank You

Sangos said...

@ Prasun K. Sengupta - Just to clarify using the 'first blood' phrase as a metaphor, rather than the actual shedding of blood. AFAIK the construction of NH-219 was not known to India government until the completion of the construction was announced in Chinese official newspaper in 1957. If one looks closely the specified maps those specific areas are marked as undefined. IMHO that does not translate to India having 'discarded' its claims to Aksai Chin. My hunch is this was work in progress for the surveyor.

Agreed Nehru was going against the grain of all his well meaning wise advisers, when all he had was a thinly spread border police armed with vintage rifles to defend his naivete of romantic utopia. That said if you are calling the Forward Policy as flawed then using the same logic one might also say the same for securing NEFA in the 50s. IMHO the Khampa incident was too late and too little due to Nehru's foolhardy idealism. Am sure Chacha N was eating his heart out for earlier supporting China's UN security council seat bid. Was too late to reverse the sun!

Sangos said...

As for the PLA general warning India before RM's visit. That's what Chinese do when they have to negotiate with a party they do not trust ie a feared adversary. Another ex. Ladakh tent intrusion and PM Li visit saga.My 2 cents.

Littlemaster said...

Sir, Why didnt DARE form a JV with elta subsidiary of iai to develope the PU,CW internal jammer of Tejas?
Does su-30 also carry ELL-8222 pods? From where are so many pods coming? Once you said that there was a shortage of such defensive pods in IAF inventory.But Bison,Jaguar IS evrybody are using them.
One person at the top cant claim all the responsibilty but things are turning for the better under his tenure.He has formed a QRT who reports to him every alternate day about progress made on Tejas .Now thats something.Previously Tejas made very few sorties per month.

An RR colonel had developed a bulletproof jacket that could stop 7.62 mm rounds at point blanc range-Kavach. Is it as good as the level 3+ bp jackets from foreigm oems. Is the Kavach in production by OFB. When there is Kavach why is IA calling for tenders for bullet proof vests?

Can the IL-76 and the recently acquired c130J-30 be used for carpet bombing ?Does AN-32.IL-76 have any bombing sights,optronics,radars through which the target is detected and the bomb dropped accurately?
Cant the TTSL of MiG-21bison be extended to keep them in service for some more time?
Why didnt NSG units use HHTI during Op black Torna to view other individuals through walls?They could have got a pretty good idea of where the terrosrists were using these thermal imagers.

Anonymous said...

I am not agreeing with Prasunda that we explicitly told that nukes are china specific. For what else you would want to have nukes. When there was so much pressure from clinton administration for signing CTBT what other logic would we have proposed. Well we did test fission in 74, but deliverable nukes were not yet made till early 90s. Having the physics package would have let us in the class of Japan. without an explicit test, it would never have done what it is intented. so test for what?, for Pakistan, no one will buy that argument given pakistans geography and India's military might, it is out of question. It cannot be designed against UK, France, US or Russia nor any other countries other than China. The truth is even today India is unable to overcome the bloody nose of 61, and for self reiteration that we can stand a chance we needed the test. Nothing changed much, agreed, but not doing anything would have been worse. China and India are not enemies but competitors with 1/5th and 1/4th world population, so the mighty will elbow the weaker one out. As the saying goes 'no two tigers in same jungle...but i will add a caveat there could be a tiger and bear in the same jungle...and a bear in the woods is nothing too silly not even a tiger will discredit.


TNT said...

Does seems PA are having LAZAR2 from serbs in a joint venture.

seems they will make them at home. why not buy chene ones? or are they not trusting chenes much?

MPatel said...

Hi Prasun,

Saw this on the its tweets from Alan Warnes: These are the same F15 that took out our Su30. These exercises included BVR manouvers too. What surprises me is that they took out eurofighters too. Can Alan Warner be trusted? Are PAF really that good to take out eurofighter?


PAF F-16 Take out Saudi Typhoons and F-15s in a recent joint exercise called Peace Eagle-1

Alan Warnes �@warnesyworld 24 Jun

Reliable sources tell me the Pak AF's new F-16 MLUs consistently beat Saudi Eagles and Typhoons during manoeuvres in Taif, RSA in May.

Alan Warnes �@warnesyworld 25 Jun

According to my sources, PAF were asked to fly Red and Blue Air. The Saudi Typhoon CO was allegedly so hacked off he didn't go to debrief...


Mr. Ra 13 said...

Is it that the quality and standards of the Saudi fighter pilots are so hopeless that their Eurofighters get defeated by the Paki F-16s. That should be otherwise unthinkable. Please elaborate.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Have the British arrived to some agreement with the UFOs:

Why do not the UFOs hover over to monitor the submarines laden with ready to fire nukes all along the vast oceans.

Genitalian Republic said...

One tip for India to face up to China, Pakistan or anyone including Uncle Sam: Learn from Ron Jeremy. The guy may look like a gorilla but that's not why people turn on to his movies. It's what he does with "what he has" that earns him the dough :)

Sayan said...

Sir, What approach are all the stakeholders of Tejas taking regarding the sourcing of radome and thw swift completion of the fire control systems trials and fine tuning ?

Just like JF-17 is employing diverteeless intakes for maximum agility and controllabilty at high alltidues greater than 40k ft what is Tejas employing?

Regarding Sudarshan LGB kits is there any glide wing version of it ? Janes was re;porting of a glide wing Sudarshan kit.

In his exclusive interview to Headlines today DRDO chief said "Ballistic missile defence capabilities of our adversaries will also grow in the years to come. As far as our BMD is concerned, we are now poised for take-off. We've done a lot of tests, need to do perhaps a few more tests. With that, we will be ready to intercept missiles upto a range of 2,000km. That system we will be able to start deploying. At the same time, our effort to develop a system to intercept missiles with a range of 5,000km is underway. Testing of those missiles is one of the limitations we have by virtue of the geometry of the country. We are working on the development of new ranges, so we can fire for a longer distance."
Theres a lot of chitchat regarding BMD.

Drdo is perhaps planning a few more phase 1 endo and exo interceptor launches to get the phase 1 interceptors operatinoal maybe.Something well is definitely brewing silently within DRDO quaters. What do u thnk about the launches. So many phase 1 launches for a tech demonstrator is unsual.

How much geographical area coverage will the 4 GSAT-7 provide ias an early warning and missile tracking sensor?Wont it be a great addition to our intel agencies in keeping track of all 2nd artillery corps and PA ballistic missile launcxhes and learn more about their trajectories in real time? The dfata gathered will help in fine tuning the fire control elements and interceptors of the bmd.

The main impediment to BMD r&d is tha lack of a long ranged missile testing range . Why isnt Enviornment ministry clearing the Drdo's proposal to setup up a radar facilty for missile tracking purposes i A?N islands? Drdo can use the recntly decommisioned Nilgiri class as a floating radar station for BMD rd purposes until the land based range becomes complete.

Ducted throttle ramjets like Meteors are avialable from Vympel of Russia nowadays.Why isnt there are no takers for such missiles within the IAF for the MiG-29 and Su30 fleets?

IAC-1 will be completed by June of 2014. Then why it will be commisioned only in 2018? During Kargil war did the IN operate Sea Harrier detachments from civilian warships?

ashi jain said...

Prasun what is your view on this news
sir please reply

Abhishek Dhar said...

Everybody knows Saudi air force is the biggest joke on the planet.Its nickname is paper tiger or prince's flying club.Standards are abysymal,maintainence utterly poor.
RSAAF is butt of jokes in fighter community.
As for Red flag 2008 i want to ask prasun sir on what really happened?IAF denied the video and it was factually incorrect at many places too.

Abhishek Dhar said...

Sir how many number of diesel subs is optimum for india?
Also it was said that chakra was practice vessel not to be used in conflict.
Then what about the new reports of india to finish construction and get a second akula class SSN.This one with brahmos VLS.
Also india has option to buy the leased submarines after 10 yrs.If we exercise it.[which is most logical]won't it be totally free from restraints and usable in any war?

Gessler said...

Prasun the Kashghar-Gwadar corridor project recently discussed by Pak-China leaders seems to be inciting great interest among the media watchers already.

The link will actually go through what India claims is Pak-occupied Kashmir. Which is disputed territory.

What is gonna be India's response to this development? Are we gonna voice our concern (if we have any, that it)?

Can we use this to put diplomatic pressure on China?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABHAY: 1 & 2) The SARAS project was totally unviable & a total waste of taxpayer’s money from the outset & I’ve explained why a number of times before. And so will be this so-called project for developing a 70-seat regional airliner. If indeed such projects were viable & feasible, then Japan by now would have been an established producer of such aircraft & China would not have been struggling for more than a decade to obtain FAA certification for its ARJ-21 regional jetliner—a project that continues to languish. 3) From a MRO standpoint, the future is indeed bright, provided the right kind of investments are made in human resource development.

To TIN TIN: It’s yet another waste of time & money.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) India has not refused to Afghanistan any kind of military aid. The requests are still being processed. 3) I see the situation in J & K improving steadily every year, given the fact that Kashmiris are joining the mainstream, like playing in the Indian cricket team’s national squad & greater number of Kashmiri youths enrolling for the Indian civil services. 4 & 5) It cannot be Baltistan or Gilgit. It has to be both. Furthermore, what’s been inked between Beijing & Islamabad is just an MoU, not any contract. 6) China wants Afghanistan’s Wakhan Corridor to be secured & for this to happen, both Baltistan & Gilgit need to be secured as well. 7) If India does not ink the BDCA, then it is India that will be the nett loser by getting bogged down in an arms race with China which cannot be won at all by India & both countries know this reality. 9) I know more about the S-1/S-2/S-3/S-4/S-5/S-6 & S-7 projects than any other blogger on this Earth since one of my companies is an involved industrial stakeholder in these programmes & therefore I don’t need any tutoring from any video-clips, kindly rest assured.

To RAD: VMT indeed.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) OEM for radome & MMR are one & the same, as I had said several times before. 2) Fire-control system integration & functional optimisation had been achieved a long time ago. New-design radome is reqd for preventing water condensation & isolation of humidity-levels inside the nose compartment. 4) GS-400 radar is not for BMD, instead is for the IAF’s HPR reqmt. 5) And who will ensure compatibility of tracking algorithms & data-linking between these radars & the missiles? Because to the best of my knowledge, no one in this world parts with such know-how nor is it possible to match a radar from one OEM with guided-missiles from another OEM. 7) What for? The problem is not with the sonar suites, but with their deficient integration with the warships’ on-board databuses. Plug-n-play with foreign components won’t work either since a customised databus needs to be developed in-country. 8) No. 10) No one has confirmed as yet whether or not there will be four GSAT-7-like satellites. 11) MiG-29B-12s can scramble in under 2 minutes. MiG-29UPGs can’t. 12) The same as all other RLG-INS-equipped aircraft. 13) Trials are still underway. 14) MiG-21Us. 15) Not MiG-21 Bisons, but MiG-27UPGs & some MiG-27Ms. 16) Next year. 17) It’s the same air-launched BrahMos-1A for both Su-30MKI & MiG-29K. Rafale will never have the BrahMos. 18) 1. It won’t have Mach 3 cruise speed.

To SPANKY’s BLOG/SWAROP: Not only anti-Naxal operations, but also during SWAT operations in urban & rural areas as well.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: Hindus not becoming as successful a warrior class as Sikhs? What about the Dogra chieftain Zorawar Singh & the Rana Sangas & Rana Prataps of Mewar? The ones that captured the largest chunks of land were the Mongols, followed by the Turks. And none of them excelled as brawn-hyped warriors. The Sikhs & Gurkhas are more better known as fighting mercenaries, i.e. fighting despite the absence of a greater spiritual or religious cause.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANGOS: Securing NEFA since the early 1950s is not the same as the Forward Policy that began in only 1959 in drips & drabs. And as for when exactly India came to know about China’s NH-219 plans, do read this: Soon after the PLA entered Lhasa, the Chinese made plans to improve communications and built new roads on a war-footing. The only way to consolidate and ‘unify’ the Empire was to construct a large network of roads. The work began immediately after the arrival of the first young PLA soldiers in Lhasa. Priority was given to motorable roads: the Chamdo-Lhasa , the Qinghai-Lhasa and the Tibet-Xinjiang Highway (NH-219) in the western Tibet. The first surveys were done at the end of 1951 and construction began in 1952. India by then had already discovered that the construction of one of the feeder roads leading to Nathu La, the border pass between Sikkim and Tibet had some strange consequences. Ironically, India began feeding the Chinese road-workers in Tibet, sending tonnes of rice through this route. John Lall, posted in Gangtok, witnessed long caravans of mules leaving for Tibet. The official report of the 1962 China War prepared by the Indian MoD states that “B N Mullik, who was then Director, Intelligence Bureau, has, however, claimed that he had been reporting about the road-building activity of the Chinese in the area since as early as November 1952. According to B N Mullik the Indian Trade Agent in Gartok also reported about it in July and September 1955. In his book ‘The Saga of Ladakh’, Maj Gen Jagjit Singh mentions that in 1956, the Indian Military Attaché in Beijing, Brig Mallik, received information that China had started building a highway through Indian territory in the Aksai Chin area. Mallik had reported the matter to Army HQ in New Delhi and a similar report was sent by the Indian Embassy in Beijing to the MEA. D R Mankekar has said that Brig S S Mallik made a first reference to the road-building activities in a routine report to the Govt as early as November 1955. Five months later, in a special report to Delhi, the Military Attaché drew pointed attention to the construction of NH-219 in Aksai Chin. Simultaneously, he also sent a copy of the report to the Army HQ. On October 6, 1957, the Sinkiang-Tibet road was formally opened with a ceremony in Gartok and 12 trucks on a trial run from Yarkand reached Gartok. In January 1958, the China News Agency reported that the Sinkiang-Tibet highway had been opened two months earlier and the road was being fully utilised. Govt of India acknowledged NH-219 for the first time in the Lok Sabha only in August 1959.

Also, this one:

No PLA General warned India this time, instead it was a statement made in a moment of panic.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Because no one parts with such technological know-hows & that’s why ELT-568s are being imported off-the-shelf from Elettronica of Italy for MiG-29UPGs. Su-30NKIs carry EL/L-8222 pods bit not all Su-30MKIs ir MiG-21 Bisons or Jaguar IS have them. There’s no evidence whatsoever to even remotely suggest that post-QRT the number of Tejas Mk1 test-flights has dramatically increased. After all, with only LSP-7 & LSP-8 available for test-flights, at most only 15 sorties can be logged per month by both together. None of the IAF’s transport aircraft have bombing sights. MiG-21 Bison’s TTSL cannot be extended any more since its R25-300 engine is no longer in production. HHTIs able to see through walls? Those type of HHTIs exist only in Hollywood flicks, nit in real-life.

To SREENIVAS: Bill Clinton’s memoirs very clearly mention the letter written by A B Vajpayee & its contents. Everyone knows about the contents’ authenticity. India’s armed forces psychologically overcame the bloody nose of 1961 way back in 1967 when after the Nathu La incident the IA undertook a nine-hour non-stop artillery fire-assault against PLA-held positions along the McMahon Line & the PLA never bothered ever again since then to retaliate militarily. It is only the blind men of Hindoostan (i.e. the politicians & the gullible public) that continue to suffer the psychological trauma of 1962 till this day.

TNT: Pakistan to make armoured vehicles at a time when there’s 18-hour countrywide power outages? Are you kidding?

To MPATEL: The RSAF’s aircrews have never been known to be proficient with their combat aircraft assets & it was evident last year when its F-15S Strike Eagles failed to hit Yemeni guerrilla positions at the Rub al Khalil. However, this reported engagement proves once again (after the IAF’s MiG-21 Bisons proved it against the USAF F-15Cs) that superior tactics always prevails over superior technology.

To Mr.RA 13: No, the Brits just deferred to the US in this area of expertise, since the US holds the largest inventory of flying-discs that have either made controlled crash-landings since 1942, or have self-destructed (these being unmanned) in the deserts of Arizona & New Mexico after having completed their missions. Earlier, Quetta was the site of a mid-air UFO explosion and crash on January 25, 1923. Similar crashes have taken place in Mexico, Brazil & Japan, perhaps even China. The ones that track & tail submarines are called USOs or unidentified submerged objects.

To SAYAN: IAC won’t be completed by June 2014 & no one has said so as well. Its fabricated superstructure will be launched next month after which its outfitting in the wet basin will get underway & last till 2016.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASHI JAIN: Utter rubbish & balderdash.

To ABHISHEK DHAR: Had already attended to this topic in my previous blog at
The IN requires at least 15 SSKs, nine SSGNs & three SSBNs.

To GESSLER: If one thinks through logically, then it will become evident that through all these moves, China is trying to pressurise Pakistan to determine the final political status of Gilgit-Baltistan, i.e. make it a part of Pakistan & when Pakistan does this, it will no longer be able to allege that India is the one that’s delaying the implementation of all the UN resolutions on J & K since it is Pakistan that will be seen to be the first party to be abrogating those UN resolutions through its annexation of Gilgit-Baltistan. If this happens, then the coast will be clear for India & Pakistan to agree on the LoC becoming the permanent international border & after that India & China will find it both meaningful & far more easier to agree on demarcating the international border in Aksai China on a mutually agreeable basis. At the same time, both China & India will gain access to the land transportation routes to & fro the Wakhan Corridor & from there to the rest of Central Asia via Tajikistan. India could then even re-open its Consulate that had once existed (up till 1954) in Kashghar. At the same time, oil/gas pipelines originating from Kazakhstan could well end up entering India via Aksai Chin as part of the Eurasian Customs Union & this prospect has been discussed in detail between the Foreign Ministers & National Security Advisers of China, India & Russia over the past three years during the customary annual summit-level meetings of these officials. That’s the best-case scenario if superior & visionary statesmanship prevails. But if Pakistan fails to deliver on Gilgit-Baltistan & continues to treat it in the same way that it has treated FATA (i.e. provinces that are not administered & whose local inhabitants have no legal or political representation whatsoever), then I’m afraid the shit will hit the fan far sooner & the Uighur separatists from Xinjiang & their terrorist brethren from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, the Middle east & Chechnya will all continue to find it easier to seek refuge in & hide within Gilgit-Baltistan & keep Xinjiang boiling. Only if this happens will India perhaps with China’s connivance be able to justify a possible humanitarian intervention in Gilgit-Baltistan via military means & in the process also secure the access routes to the Wakhan Corridor with Afghanistan’s help & concurrence. Whether or not India’s decision-makers have the strategic visioning to thinkl all this through from the beginning right down to its end-state remains to be seen.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

So now, according to this report, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia too are India's enemies!

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Thanx for your valued replies.

Anonymous said...

very well da, i agree that some of the things are generally well understood by the gullible public. But after all many of our citizens are in the category, may be not armed forces. It would therefore necessitate to reiterate to them that yes we can or we have overcome the bloody nose. The only question remains is, if it was not to deter china what else for we have nuclear bombs. No need to have them at all...after all maintaining them is itself a crime intended against humanity.


R.S. Swamy said...

Hello Mr. Prasun, I have some questions to ask you regarding Pakistan's ballistic missiles and SLV development programme: -

1) Is there an operational MARV (Maneuverable Re-entry Vehicle) on the Shaheen-2 or other BMs of Pak?

2) Does the so-called Shaheen-3 exist/in development? If so, is it a new missile with a range of 4,500km, or is it just an improvement of Shaheen-2 with MIRV and a range of 4500km?

3) What is the progress on Pak's SLV developments (if any)?

4) How comparable will Pak's future remote-sensing satellites be when compared to those developed and launched by India?

5) Does the Taimur SLV exist? Is it in development? If yes, what are the specs or features of this SLV? Please provide any info you know.

6) Back in the 1960s, SUPARCO was actually somewhat ahead of India's organisations when it comes to things dealing with rocket launches etc.

But today, ISRO is light-years ahead of SUPARCO, what is the reason for Pak's failure to develop comparable SLVs to India and prove a match in this south-Asian space race?

Thanks in advance,

R.S. Swamy

rad said...

Hi Prasun
Is this story of pak -f-16 beating typhoons true or is it a lie as pak is famous for it. or is it a morale saver to equal india!s victory over the f-15 in cope exercises. A fighter pilot who fought in the 1971 war rates the pak pilots and indian pilots on the same level , his conclusion was " after all we are the same people"! but admits they had an advantage initially of being trained by the Americans but not now. I have seen blogs where pak bloggers were concerned by hawks and pilatus ac and acmi pods as their assumption that they were better trained is now gone with the induction of these trainer systems. I do remember that pak got acmi systems from US a long while ago , true?
Why cant we train with greece if pak can train with turkey , and why not israel, they would be so happy to train in india and we can learn a lot from them . This arse kissing of muslims sentiments must stop and be more pragmatic towards the security of the country.IN Fact we should have a joint exercise with japan , australia, vietnam , Indonesia , Philippines to convey a message to China, that would really scare them . Supply brahmos to vietnam ,indonesia , malaysia etc.This would make them realize the that arming pak against us will be counter productive. But our country is ruled by arse kissing minorities politics, who would drain the exchequer in the name of various right to programs to buy votes rather than look after the nation.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the answers.

1.Previous reports cited Tejas mk1 radome was causing em interference with the radome and the true potential of the mmr couldnt be realised for this.When did thesenew probs emerge ?

2.Isolation of humidity levels and the rest arent they the tasks of the ecs .In this case it was supplied by Honeywell.

3.DRDO has previously used Thales Raytheon Master A which is a variant of GS400 in R&d phase of AAD and PAV and have also used them during test launches.You wrote about them in ur thread on ballistic missile shield.If GS400 is selected there wont be big problems with the algorithm compatibility issues.

4.The US imposed restrictions that exist with Green Pine no such restictions exist with Master A. So it can be acquired in nos for operational use.

5.Dr Chander was talking about entirely new radars with much improved performances for phase2. PDV is a phase 2 missile.So in regard to integration of radars was he talking about these new radars.

6.Drdo doesnt have the required expertise to design and productionise the PDV RF seekers which is now being built by VEB industries. Which OEM provided DDrdo with the required technical expertise.

7.Is it true that DQGA is planning to order 40 Arjun hulls for mating them with OFB upgunned and upgraded M46 to produce an indigenous SPH?

8.Which thermal imager is the IA T-90 Bhisma having Catherine FC or Matis STD?Those T-90 having Thales Catherine are ther having the 1.5x teleconverter which improves detection and id ranges.

9.There is news about T-90 MBT upgrade.It is being said that Indian authorities have already met with officials of Uralvagonzavod. Is this the long awaited deal for deep upgrade of the 1st batch of 310 T-90S?

10.Under the deal will the IA T-90 be brought to the satndards of T-90AM with some Indian specific vectronics?Will there be any improvements in armour protection, era ? Pls expalin a bit.

11.What are the cardinal differences between Brahmos ALCM and Brahmos mini besides a lighter weight?

12.How many GSAT-7 satellites have been planned thus far ?

13.Some time back in an India Today article read that America will be giving PA M109 sph to combat insurgents and terrorists under some military assiatance scheme.??

14.Is the IA looking to buy MRAPS,Stryker APC and HUMVEE from ex coalition stocks . There wont be shipping back the whole stuff back to USA.

15.As your company is involeved in Sagarika project can you pls tell whther the 2nd Arihant class will be having Brahmos launches from the very first instead of K-15?

16.How will Arihant class ssgn able to target hostile ships at ranges greater than 200km for a Brahmos strike.The omboard radar wont be having that much range.

17.How was our Mig-21bison able to edge out against F-15C ? F-15C has a much superior radar.Infact there cant be any comparison between their radars. F-15C is a much more agile fighter with high sustained and instaneous turn rates and much higher mach and service ceiling. MiG-21 rapily bleeds off energy. Will you pls briefy tell about the tactics employed by Bison aircrew.

18. DRDO chiefs have been telling about phase 1 interceptors being able to neutralise upto 2000 km bm threats. Now wrt to these

a.Then if it be so whu hasnt DRDO ever conducted a test against Agni-1,2 IRBMs and MRBM ?

b.Why hasnt Drdo conducted a tests wherein the endo and exo interc knocked out a RV ? 2000 km range missiles will be employing RV vehicles.

c.Has the Command and control centre , radars demonstrated their abilities to distiguish the actual rv vehicle , missles from chaffs, decoys?

Without them pahse 1 will reamin incomplete.

20.What is preventing Drdo from acquiring a floating or ship based missile tracking and telemetry vessel to be used fro long range intercepts.It can mitigate the problems being faced due to absence of a long range missile testing range.

Anurag said...

Hello Prasun Da,how are you??

1.Has the DRDO and IA deceided which calliber gun they want for Arjun Mk3 yet-that 120mm or 140mm??

2.Which mounted artillery system do you think has the best chance of winning??And what is the ststus of M46 upgradation programme??Has it taken off yet??

3.Is the IA gonna totally replace the INSAS 1B1 with some some imported rifle or they will choose the way the USMC chose-to upgrade the INSAS to the next level like addition of forward quad rails etc??

4.Has the UBGL enterd service induction with IA frontline units yet??

5.Can you tell me during Kargil conflict,had the Indian Armed Forces deceided to cross the LOC and capyure POK,what do you think would have been the consequences??Was it even possible for us to capture those areas??

6.Why did the IA not use the Carl Gustavs or any other LAWs or ATGMs and AMRs from stand off ranges to burst open the Paki sanghars before attacking them head on??This could have reduce the IA casualties to a large was there any problem??

7.What was the approximate no of KIAs on both sides in Kargil conflict??

8.And lastly,can you give me some detailed info (like the timeline,the reasons and events leading to that incident,tactics used by both sides and possible casualty figures etc) wrt the 19667 Nathu La incident??I know too well that your time is extremely precious and limited but I can't seem to find some detailed info on the net or any books despite of continuous searching for past couple of months??I would be really ever great full to you if you may help.

THANX in advance.................

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

You say the US holds largest inventory of UFOs.Is it just because of it meticulous collection & study of UFOs while the other countries do not have the means?I cannot thonk why the chinese being a big country should not have eqal amount of such UFOs retrieved unless UFOs like visiting the US more.Also when such high tech is involved, everybody would take it seriously and should have built an industry around this research.I could understand if this is not made public.Are different countries cooperating on UFOs?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) These problems were always there. 2) ECS cannot function optimally if the radome is faulty. 3) Huge differences between radar variants. They are never the same. 4) Without LRTR the MRTR too will function sub-optimally. 5) What new radars? Who will supply them? 6) No one. That’s why such seekers will take more than 2 decades to be developed in-house. 15 & 16) Cannot reveal anymore. 17) Superior tactics can always overcome superior technologies. Had already explained it several times before. 18) Phase-1 was an effort of by & for scientists only & therefore doesn’t attract any attention from professional operators of such systems.

To ANURAG: 1) Not yet. All effort is now being focussed on the 1,500hp-powerpack equipped Arjun Mk2 MBT’s R & D effort. 2) CAESAR. 3) INSAS’ replacement will be the DRDO-develop multi-calibre weapon. One cannot & must never adopt imported solutions for such a large order. 4) It did so long ago. 5) Of course it was possible since only the PA was involved in that area & there was no activity from the PAF since official Pakistan was never involved in OP Badr. 6) They were used (Milan-2 was used a lot), but the personnel firing them were all exposed to fire from 14.5mm HMGs & mortars. In addition, all such engagements were not on flat terrain & in 99% of the cases slopes of more than 75% inclination had to be negotiated—hardly the best place to use such direct-fire weapons. 7) Already uploaded that info in the OP Badr thread last January. 8) Not much has been written about it & to get additional information one will have to obtain access to the IA’s HQ Eastern Command or the IA’s Directorate of Field Artillery.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SREENIVAS: The problem is that India’s decision-makers since 1998 have believed that the mere possession of nuclear weapons is enough to deter her adversaries. For, the fact remains that possession of WMDs cannot compensate for the absence of conventional military power, economic clout, etc. And since India’s decision-makers haven’t understood this yet, they have so far desisted from issuing firm national security directives to India’s three armed services & consequently, force modernisation priorities have not been agreed upon & each individual service continues to do its own watertight & compartmentalised war-planning contingencies, especially against China.

To R S Swamy: 1) Not yet. 2) Shaheen-2 is the M-18 or DF-18. The Shaheen-3 is the DF-25 mounted inside a cannister. Then there’s the DF-16 to replace the Shaheen-1. 3) None. 4) Pakistan’s remote-sensing data reqmts are all being outsourced from China & Canada. 5) No, it does not exist. 6) Pakistan was never interested in commercial applications of space technology.

To RAD: The PAF still does not have access to ACMI systems, just like the PLAAF. That’s why for honing their dissimilar air combat skills, PAF pilots have traditionally gone to Turkey for training. It is always easy to defeat a qualitatively superior adversary through audacious tactics involving ‘mis-direction’, pretty much similar to what P C Sorcar or Houdini had made use of in order to take advantage of one’s situational awareness lapses. The IAF too can train with the RAAF, RSAF (Saudi), UAE AF & IDF-AF if the Govt of India wishes it to be the case. Why not? I for one am for it all the way. Greece today is incapable of financially staging such exercises. There are no export takers for BrahMos as yet. Vietnam already has Bastion while Indonesia has acquired Yakhonts. I don’t see any reason for desisting from joint exercises with Israel’s armed forces. If Egypt, Qatar, Turkey & Jordan can have strong military-to-military ties with Israel, why can’t India? In fact, it’s high time India officially hosted an Israeli PM once again in Delhi.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@12.03PM: There’s a huge industrial-level involved in both electro-gravitics & magneto-gravitics & the US has spaceplanes that can reach the moon in 9 hours & Mars within 29 hours. The conventional laws of thermodynamics as we know them to be were breached & overcome a long time ago. Companies like SAIC, EG & G, GE, Morton Thiokol, Westinghouse & laboratories like Los Alamos, Lawrence Livermore & Sandia National Labs have been involved in such R & D activities since the early 1950s. A listing of the thousands of industrial patents classified by the US DoD since then easily proves my point.

Pratap Kumar said...

Hi Prasun ji,

so what are these aliens like?

do they different levels of alliances with different countries of the world?

How is US reverse-engineering these alien tech, I mean aren't the aliens who actually operated these UFOs objecting to it?

Is there a way to get tech from these ETs for India? Or better still, are the PSUs here capable of absorbing that tech?

Sangos said...

@Prasun K. Sengupta - AFAIK any Indian boots on the ground north of the 'traditional customary line' was considered 'Indian aggression' by Mao's China till date. So on the ground extending Indian administration in NEFA and establishing outposts under Forward Policy was one and the same thing. Thanks for the notes. The point am trying to make was China's duplicity in conveniently adopting the 'colonial imposed boundary' in Aksai Chin and unilaterally building NH 219 in the 50s. No huge surprise as manipulating history is child's play for the Chinese.

IMHO this 'panic statement' is fully reflective of the official views or at least has approval. A good reality check of how warm and fuzzy the Chinese feel at the sight of our RM.

Sangos said...

I find this whole 'flying saucer recovery' story as believable as ants in the ant hill hijacking a jet fighter in the skies.

What is however inside logical credibility are UFO's taking nukes offline. Certainly these objects are not space regulars like comets and asteroids.

Anonymous said...

Its truly great that you give answers of all the queries despite the fact that no. of qusetions being asked are increasing every year.
Hats off for your contribution in the cyber world's defence community.

rad said...

hi prasun
came across this en lighting article on the super su -30 mki leading edge aesa array by Carlo kopp, most of it went over my capacity of electronics that is restricted to radio amateur advanced grade level , but did quench my thirst .I thought it would help jingos like me to know about that intriguing tech .you
mentioned that mires aesa would be on the super sukhoi but carlo kopp says the tihkmirov aesa is the radar going to the sukhoi. pse explain.
here is the link

rad said...

to anurag

are yo anurag rana?

Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the answers.

1.Phase 1 of bmd may be by and for the scientists but isnt IAF interested in phase 2- AD-1,2 ?

2.You havent ever written about the huge differences between Master A and GS400? Pls tell about them a bit.

3. A constellation of 3 GSAT-7 can serve as a LRTR and eyes and ears for this MRTR.4 of them was initially planned.

4.All three variants of EL/M-2084 have a smaller range than Master-A.It can serve as a LRTR for 2084 in case of AD-1 2.

5.Cant Drdo procure the latest of RF seekers from Agat of Russia like it did in case of PAD,AAD. When OEMs are offering us various missile seekers techs for the right price wnt they also provide us with such a seeker for ABM applications for a good price?

6.The ARSEEK for PDV is developed already. You posted posters of it.It was displayed in aero India 2013. ??

7.Pls tell the scope of the presnt T-90 upgrade being discussed.

8.Is IAI LRSAM RD ontrack for first deliveries in 2015? How many test firings have been held of LR-SAM and its 70km range sibling?

9.When will Arjun mk2 prototype be unveiled?Everybody is busy telling the presnt Arjun as mk2 instead of mk1a and that includes the Drdo chief himself.

10.Doesnt we have an option of buying the INS Chakra after its lease xpires after 9 years?

11.Arent there any military applications of the ultra classified American space planes. They must have adopted it for bombing purposes ?? When USA has them why does it need ballistic missiles for ? And are there any Russian analogues to these spaceplanes? Russians are busy doing something important in their Kapustin Yar facility.

12.Now as the Sudharsan kit is being redesigned to get rid of wobbling are ADE technocrats including swept wings besids the rocket motor for increased ranges?

Littlemaster said...

Sir, Why cant a ECM and EW suite be developed in a JV basis with IAI?
Isnt Rafael providing DRDO with the imaging infrared seeker for PDV and AD applications and Elta providing the active radar seekers for PDV?
Was the Russian dual channel monopulse seekers deficient in top end performance that Israeli onse are now being opted for?
Cant Selex Galileo provide the technical expertise for developing a siphisticated lpi capable internal rf jammer?
Which sukhoi squadrons are using the ell8222 defenisve jammers ? Those deployed close to LAC?In the coming moths if rupee gains value will IAF be ordering more ell-8222 to cover up its entire fleet ?

Last month 62 sorties took place. Greater no of sorties are getting generated these days than previous QRT. Is any Indian sme developing multi ejector racks for tejas mk1?
How can the IAF transport acs drop their bombs on target without any bomb sights or any type of targetting device?
Tank TI can see other tanks even if they are located behind sand dunes or heavy concrete structures. Hand held variants of such imagers have been developed.
Any bright news on arty front. Mod is nly calling in tender after tenders and after RFPs are issued and field trials are being held thw whole process starts afresh.

Is thery any automatic reloader, propellant loader avialble with CAESAR like the sort of autoloader presnt in IA FH77B which ensures a burst fire capabilty 0f 3 rounds in under 14 secs.

Ni8 Dweller said...

@Prasun Da,
As per the recent article in Foreign Affairs (

"According to unconfirmed reports, Shiites from Yemen, Afghanistan, and India have started to arrive as well. Many of them say they come only to protect Shiite shrines, such as the Sayyida Zaynab mosque in Damascus, but some of them take part in more nefarious activities."

How true could this be regarding Indian Shiites in Syrian Civil War? Did the Iran's Revolutionary Guard get help from these pool of Men when they attacked the Israeli Embassy car some time back?


Dear Prasun,
What is the status of NAG missile? Has DRDO overcome all the deficiencies it used have in NAG missile?May you please update us about it?

Abhishek Dhar said...

Read this report,and if US navy is having this much nightmare with diesel subs to the point carriers are sitting ducks atm,then is this good idea for india to have so many carriers?Granted chinese diesel subs can't operate in IOR.Wouldn't it be better for us to expand OUR diesel sub fleet instead to add too many carrier battle groups?

rad said...

HI Prasun
I do remember that you mentioned that the active radar on the barak is an aesa , can you confirm that, or is it IIR ,as you have mentioned that the terminal guidance is by IR, or better is it dual mode guidance?

Pintu said...

Prasun Da , your views please:

Sayan said...


Why is the fisrt squdron being formed even before Rudra gets its Coa and IOC and FOC from AAC? Will this squadron attain its full strength of 10 Rudars by early next year?

Regarding ATGM of Rudra which has been shortlisted? Cant HAL strntghten the weapons attachment rods for carriage of 8 ATGMs? Why wasnt a stub wing adopted instead?

Will the initial Rudras be getting DIRCM for self defense?

Whats the purpose of a 2nd Akula lease ? Why does INS Chakra carry Klub ascm if it doesnt participate in war ?

Whats the scope of the T-90 Bhisma upgrade? Is it ture that not a single Western HEAT,APFSDS was able to pirece through the T-90 base armour even in absence of era in demonstrations in front of Indian delegates and it tilted the balance toawards T-90.

AKHIL SURI said...

Hi Prasun ,

Two years ago the Indian Army had said that they intend to purchase the Arrow 2

So why is the DRDO wasting tax payers money in building a BMD when the Arrow 3 or S 400 can be bought off the shelf ? Obviously DRDO cannot design a BMD as cutting edge as the Arrow 3 or S 400 .


Bhaswar said...


While the previous incident of Chinese transgression was played down by the government and no befitting reply was given what do we do now. It seems that the Chinese have taken the shameful and pussilanimous behavior of the Indian nation, its government, its armed forces and ALL its people as a carte blanche opportunity and invitation to do as it pleases-

They have infiltrated again into our territory. Is this what we should be looking forward to for the years to come despite all predictions of some settlement on the border issue being touted by analysts and sundry?

Alok said...

Prasun I wouldn't have believed if anyone else said
"There’s a huge industrial-level involved in both electro-gravitics & magneto-gravitics & the US has spaceplanes that can reach the moon in 9 hours & Mars within 29 hours. The conventional laws of thermodynamics as we know them to be were breached & overcome a long time ago"

However,being a long time follower of your blog -I am tempted to believe you.
Please share more information if and when you can.


MPatel said...

There have been reports (NYTimes) and even a press conference at the White House that US is considering completely leaving Afghanistan, with no troops on the ground. Whilst the wolf is at the door.

Since this suggestion was made, it seems to have caught fire, many pundits have started to say, maybe this could be the best option.

Question is has the US concluded an agreement with pak for bases? These two have been getting very cosy lately. Only good reports seem to appear in their respective papers about the other. Its seems we are back to the 90s.

Subir said...

Sir, are you attending IMDS 2013 currently underway in St Petersberg? If so can you provide some info on INS Vikramaditya sea trials and the no of Kashtan-M on it.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRATAP KUMAR, SANGOS & ALOK: Before that, let’s start from the source. The Vega (Abhijit) star system is 25 light-years from Earth and is part of the LYRA constellation. It is the brightest star in the constellation, the fifth brightest star in the night sky and the second brightest star in the northern celestial hemisphere, after Arcturus. Together with Arcturus and Sirius, it is one of the most luminous stars in the Sun’s neighbourhood. The Lyrians are apparently the oldest known race of human beings. The planet Xylanthia is located in the Sirius Star System, which is comprised of three stars; Sirius A, B and C. Sirius A and B orbit around Sirius C. Xylanthia orbits around Sirius C, which is a black dwarf star. Xylanthia, located 8 light-years away from Earth, is reportedly the home-planet of the extraterrestrials that visited Earth and founded Atlantis. Sirius A and B, orbit around Sirius C, which is their centre of gravity. This configuration causes Xylanthia to have no night. There is a twilight zone that circles the planet. ORION (Mriga, or Deer) constellation is 800 light-years from Earth. Pleiades is a small cluster of seven stars located in the TAURUS (Bull) constellation. It takes around 7 hours to travel the 420 light years to Earth. TAURUS hosts two of the nearest open clusters to Earth, the Pleiades and the Hyades, both of which are visible to the naked eye. At first magnitude, the red giant Aldebaran is the brightest star in the constellation. Aldebaran is a red giant star located about 68 light-years away & has two ingabitable planets from where the ancestors of the Sumerians descended some 5,000 years ago. Zeta 2 Reticuli is the wide binary star system in the southern constellation of Reticulum. It is located at a distance of about 39 light-years from Earth. Arcturus is the brightest star in the northern celestial hemisphere. It is the fourth brightest star in the night sky, is a relatively close star at only 36.7 light-years from Earth, and together with Vega and Sirius, one of the most luminous stars in the Sun’s neighbourhood. In the epic Mahabharata, it is recorded that within the Milky Way alone, there are 400,000 species of human beings & animals.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Con’t from above:
Because of the many wars on Lyra, many peaceful Lyrans left on their spacecraft and travelled for many years till they came upon the seven-cluster stars in Pleiades. They landed on a planet now called Erra, which is located around the Pleiades Star called Taygeta. Here is where they started their new civilisation in the year 228,000 BC. The Pleiadians are a very ancient race of humans. They have kept a record of the complete history of Earth’s human evolution from the very beginning to present times. Pleiadians claim that the Earth is 626 billion years old. Around 225,000 BC, the Pleiadians discovered a small sun system with a planet called Earth on one of their scouting missions away from the Pleiades. They discoverd on Earth, three groups of uncivilised people living there. The larger of these groups were light skinned and were of Lyran descent. The Lyrans had landed on Earth earlier and were forced to stay on Earth and enter into a uncarnational cycle, because of their ill-treatment of the original brown skinned natives. This became their karma. At this time, the Pleiadians decided to stay and create societies on Earth. The Galactic Federation allowed the Pleiadians to enter into an incarnational cycle with humans on Earth. The places designated for them to do this were Bali, Hawaii, Samoa and India. Civilisations came and went on Earth with many wars, peaceful cycles and natural disasters, between 196,000 BC and 10 AD. The Pleiadians stayed with humans on Earth until 10 AD trying to help develop various civilisations such as Lemuria, Maya, Inca and a civilisation at Machu Picchu. They also were trying to guide humans toward a more spiritual path. At about 10 AD the last Pleiadian leader called Plejas left Earth for good, because the Pleiadians finally achieved peace back home in the Pleiades. They felt it was time for humans to evolve on their own. The Pleiadians are a Goddess Society (which worships family, children, women). They are on a fifth dimensional frequency, which is one of love and creativity. About 400,000 people live on Erra, which the Pleiadians feel is the ideal amount for the welfare of their planet. The people of Erra are telepathic. The Pleiadians are primarily vegeterians, but on occasion eat some meat. They have no medical problems for they control their health by using their own mental powers. The average age of a Pleiadian is 700 years. Their skin is whiter and smoother than ours. The Pleiadians do not have blood, their memory-matrix is in light. The Pleiadians have no currency as we know it; they share the resources of their planet with all the people. All material goods are given to the people freely, based on their contribution to their society. When children are born into the Pleiadian society, they are taught for the first ten years to understand the purpose of their lives. The children then spend the next 60 to 70 years being educated in various occupations. Pleiadians travel in spacecraft called a Beamship. They have different sizes for different usage—some for inter-galactic travel, some for inter-stellar travel; & some for inter-planetary travel. Beamships can travel billions of miles in a part of a second by travelling in hyperspace. Because of this ability, the trip from Erra to Earth takes only 7 hours.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Cont’d from above:
There are 57 reported types of alien species within the Milky Way (Brahmand) alone. Majority of those who’ve visited earth thus far are humanoid clones on board flying-discs, & not the actual aliens. This is because some of the aliens believe that only after the Earthlings mature spiritually will it be the right time to reveal their existence & that Earthlings will be permitted to become part of the inter-galactic federation, but not on our terms, but on the terms & conditions of our far superior cousins. This is because these aliens are highly suspicious of us Earthlings’ intentions, given our innate ability to destroy one another & therefore the aliens do not want us to export out tendencies of tribalism to other civilisations. The aliens began intensely monitoring the Earthlings ever since the latter developed & used high-power microwave radars, ballistic missiles & nuclear weapons & therefore the bulk of the UFO sightings since the late 1930s took place over Germany & later the US & USSR. The first 3 flying-discs were downed by US forces in & around Los Angeles on the night of February 25, 1942 & later in Roswell & Kingman, Arizona rather inadvertently, when the electromagnetic fields of these flying-discs were breached by the radiation from the US Army’s high-power radars (the peak transmitting power of such radars was then routinely increased by a factor of 26 for finding out just how far such radars could scan the airspace). Different types of alien-beings were discovered on board such down flying-discs, ranging from grey-alien humanoids measuring less than 1-metre tall, top 9 feet-tall Nordic-looking human beings with long flowing hair & white skin.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Cont’d from above:
The grey-alien humanoids from the Reticulum constellation are by nature traders & have exchanged some of their know-how with the US in areas like night-vision, fibre-optics, pure composites & alloys, silicon chips, electro-gravitics & magneto-gravitics & in return have obtained access to rare-earth minerals from Earth, such as Boron. These humanoids are also actively extracting Helium 4 on the Moon, since Helium 4 apparently provides an abundant source of energy & the Moon’s surface soaks up all the Helium 4 that the Sun constantly emits. The Aldebarans on the other hand reportedly contacted the Nazis through mediums (tantriks) of the VRIL & THULE secret societies (which had accessed the protocols reqd for contacting alien civilisations found in ancient Vedic & Tibetan Buddhist manuscripts) prior to World War-2 to help Germany become self-sufficient in its energy reqmts (& thereby become free from the dependence on the global oil & coal cartels which in those days were controlled by the UK & US & which was the main reason why territorial aggression & colonialism were being resorted to in those days) & thereby remove their need for territorial aggression. Regretfully, the Nazis failed to comprehend the spiritual virtues of such alien ‘wisdom’ & instead on only the materialistic aspects, which resulted in the creation of a Nazi war-machine that was technologically in the 1940s at least 25 years ahead of the rest of the world. After WW-2, almost all German scientists & engineers involved in such areas were covertly resettled in New Mexico & Arizona under OP Paper Clip.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANGOS: Extending Indian administration into NEFA was never questioned by China since NEFA was well south of the McMahon Line which China had recognised & on that very basis had settled its boundaries with Bhutan & Myanmar. China only objected when Indian military forces forcibly seized the Tawang Tract in the early 1950s & His Holiness The Dalai Lama never objected to it from Lhasa at that time. Forward Policy was totally different from all this. In Aksai Chin the situation was totally different since no one from India had till 1954 demarcated any boundary. Had any permanent Indian paramilitary or military outpost been created out to India’s farthest claim-line, then by 1956 & 1959 there was a chance of a peacefully negotiated solution. Even in NEFA, highest-level civilian, Indian Army & IAF officials were unable to determine even by 1962 whether the Thag La Ridge was running alone an east-west or north-south axis. Once such confusion prevails, one can hardly blame another party for cashing in on such a situation, for that’s what realpolitik is all about.

To RAD: MIRES is the name given to the nose-mounted AESA-MMR that has been developed by NIIP Tikhomirov, just as Zhuk-AE is the name given to the AESA-MMR from Phazotron JSC. Barak-2 will have AESA-based terminal seeker, while the AD-1/AD-2 versions of Barak-2 will have IIR seeker.

To SUBIR: 1) Look carefully at the diagrams of AD-1/AD-1 & you’ll discover that they both bear a close resemblance to Barak-2 & not to the AAD at all, meaning the Barak-2 will morphe & grow further in future into anti-BLOS-BSM missiles. 2) The two radars have totally different types of antennae array, for starters. THALES’ website has all other details. 3) Optronic sensor on GSAT-7 is only an interim arrangement, since a dedicated Missile Warning System comprising four BMEWS satellites will be deployed in future. GSAT-7 is purely for the IN, while the IA & IAF will have one each of GSAT-7-type telecommunications satellites. 4) EL/M-2084 Arudhra MMR’s max range can be easily increased by increasing its peak transmitting power. 5) The idea is to develop such seekers in-house so that they can be phased in/synchronised with their fire-control/engagement radars. If one buys Russia-origin seekers, then by consequence the data-links & tracking radars on the ground too will have to be Russian. That’s why Derby is going on board the Tejas Mk1, & not R-77 or Astra-1. 6) It is still undergoing development & fine-tuning. Just showing its full-scale mock-up doesn’t mean it is ready-to-fire. 7) Already uploaded that threads months ago. 8) It is on-track. More than 10 test-firings have been conducted to date in Israel. 9) In another two years or so. 10) No. 11) Of course there are & they have been deployed as well, like the TR-3B Astra. Both the US & Russia are steadily reducing their inventories of silo-based ICBMs & will in future have the bulk of their delivery systems standardised on SSBN-housed SLBMs, just like what the UK & France have done. 12) The Sudarshan LGB will future closely resemble the Griffin-3 LGB.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LITTLEMASTER: Providing sensors off-the-shelf is totally different from developing a complete suite. For the former, there’s no technology transfer reqd. For the latter, therefore, various components are being imported off-the-shelf from EADS/Cassidian & Elettronica, with DARE being the prime contractor-cum-integrator. RAFAEL’s IIR sensors will go on board the AD-1/AD-2 interceptor missiles only. Those for PDV are being developed by DRDO & CSIR. One cannot have Russia-origin seekers & non-Russia origin fire-control radars & data-links. AESA-based ELT-568 internal jammers are coming from Elettronica, not Selex-Galileo, since the former has already supplied them for MiG-29UPGs & is likely to do the same for Tejas Mk2 MRCA as well. All Su-30MKIs are hard-wired to receive EL/L-8222 jamming pods. No one in India is developing any kind of multi-ejector rack. Under daylight conditions, bombs can easily be dropped by transport aircraft by using GPS navigation aids. Two mean can easily load both 3 rounds & their BMCS within 14 seconds for CAESAR. FH-77B never had any autoloader, just a winch holding 3 rounds that has to be manually positioned near the breech. Charge-bags too are manually loaded.

To Ni8 DWELLER: It is always possible, since CyberSpace today is a great tool for mobilising assets of all kinds as well as for spreading disinformation. Good luck to such warriors & hope they achieve martyrdom ASAP in any foreign land & don’t come back home to roost, since they always tend to become societal liabilities & constantly seek govt-initiated rehabilitation. I also hope that the Sunnis too make a beeline for attaining such martyrdoms in faraway lands, as this will be one glorious way of lessening India’s population burden. Just one humble request to them: please for heaven’s sake don’t come back alive in any manner.

To SOUBHAGYA: There was never anything wrong with NAG ATGM’s performance parameters. It was just a bit heavy but that was acceptable. The problem was always the poorly-engineered NAMICA & its BMP hull. A better hull choice sould have been the T-72M1 hull housing a new-design turret housing both 8 ready-to-fire cannister-mounted NAGs & a electro-hydraulically raisable mast housing a panoramic thermal imager-based panoramic sight for 360-degree target search.

To PINTU: This was waiting to happen & the only solution to this, as I had alluded to earlier, is to mount LORROS sensors on Akashdeep-type aerostats.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SAYAN: The Rudra with Mistral ATAM & 70mm unguided rockets has already been flight-certified (CoA has been issued) & from this August the first batch of SP-series Rudras will be delivered to the AAC. Only after this will the AAC initiate the IOC & FOC processes in sequence. ATGM for Rudra has not yet been selected, but the MBDA-built PARS-3LR will most certainly win this competition. Rudras won’t have DIRCM as of now. 3M54E & 3M-14E on board INS Chakra will be test-fired for only honing the skills of those IN personnel that will in future be deployed on board the S-2/S-3/S-4 Arihant-class SSGNs armed with BrahMos-1 ASCMs. Explained the T-90S MBT upgrade in great detail last year & earlier this year.

TO AKHIL SURI: In reality, no one from the IA had said so & the story was highly speculative. The IAF & not the IA is responsible for strategic air-defence & consequently, it is the IAF that has mandated the procurement of AD-1/AD-2 & Barak-2 SAMs for intercepting both manned combat aircraft as well as NLOS-BSMs.

To BHASWAR: This cat-and-mouse game will continue for as long as the LAC issue stays unresolved. What needs to be done now is to deploy such sensors on aerostats & such sensors ought to be operated by the IA, & not the ITBP. The ITBP must be removed from all frontline observation posts all along the LAC & in Ladakh they should be replaced by Ladakh Scouts. After all, deploying a CAPF against an Army is not exactly common-sensical, is it? The sooner the Govt of India realises this the better & once the IA begins manning such observation posts, you will see a drastic change in the PLA’s attitudes in such disputed areas.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

to Pintu & Bhaswar you say 'mount LORROS sensors on Akashdeep-type aerostats.' on Chinese incursion what if the chinese try to damage the aerostats.

also i remember sometime back you had said India would like to lease more nuke subs from Russia but there are no hulls.

you may be partially correct as after Iribis (Chakra III) an Akula 2 there are none in its class but 2 more incomplete sub hulls exist. these are the 2 incomplete Oscar class subs (sister ships of Kursk).

this link says India will go for 3 nuke attack subs. May be India will go for one of the 2 incomplete Oscars, whats your opinion

A bigger concern now is the drifting away of Bhutan from India, if so I expect 1975 Sikkim in Bhutan in near future.

Another concern is the recent revelations by Abbotabad commission & emphatic admission by former ISI chief that he was prooud to save OBL for 9 yrs. It also implies the candid admission that the fourth letter of alphabet is also being given protection in Pak.


Joydeep Ghosh

Tin Tin said...

This CNN article says India is already increasing training for afghan army. Is it true?

Sangos said...

@ Prasun K. Sengupta - The 'alien races' notes are interesting. That said my basic gripe is "How on earth did we get to know all these info details?". I mean with our latest technology we are NOT EVEN able till date to confirm the first planet in the nearest star system - Alpha Centauri let alone detecting life in the galaxy. Also how is it remotely possible for alien flying saucers that have survived far more dangerous interstellar space travel, to be 'shot down' by human radar toys and nuke firecrackers? That must be a race of some really idiotic aliens indeed if it is true.

Sangos said...

Mao gave us the 'lesson' in 1962 of where the Chinese boundary lies in very clear terms. So the argument that India started the trouble maybe right. Only there is a slight problem ie the fictitious basis of the 'Chinese boundary'. Latest ex. claim to the 'whole of Arunachal Pradesh'. Aksai Chin is like if my neighbor moved into my badly fenced backyard and then wanted to exchange that for my front lawn. IMHO that sort of a 'negotiated settlement' is utter baloney.

Gessler said...

Hi Prasun, can you explain what is this projectile Vikramaditya is seen launching?

Sayan said...

Sir, What is the earmaked per annum production capacity of HAL Rudra of HAL helicopter division?

What is the armour protection rating of Rudra? Is the armour part of the load bearing structure,airframe or is it addon ?

What will be the use of Mistral ATAM for Rudra?Hunting UAVs? How many PARS3LR will Rudra able to carry ? Were any changes made to the airframe and the stub attachments for grater weapons capacity? Why cant the Rudra be used as a utility helicopter or troop transport ?

Isnt it madnatory and of utter importance for any gunship to carry IR jammer or DIRCM?

Mi-17v1 and 5 are able to carry laser guided Vikhr AT missiles. But what provides the targetting data,performs tank detection and id and paints the target for laser beam riding missile delivery. Neither mi17v1 or v5 carries any laser designator or flir pod.

There were news of IAF constructing a semi hardened or fully hardened airbase close to China border. Is there any substance to it ?What really is being built by IAF ?

In the deep upgrade of T-90 mentioned by you there was only upgrades to vectronics and mission sensors.No upgardes to powerplant,transmission,era and armour protection like add on composite armour plates.So is the vectronics upgrsde the whole scope of upgrade ?

Wont it make much sense if the follow on Arihant class SSGN had the 550 km range Brahmos blk3 instead of 290 km one. And no Nirbhay LACM would be carried ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: That's an offboard countermeasures/decoy dispensing round that contains chaff.

Sayan said...

Is this correct?If so then IA will have to abandon all plans of getting 550 km range Brahmos blk-3.
Is this anything particular notewothy going on between India and Israel regarding Iron Dome and David's Sling. How will the 10 km range Tamir interceptor provide effective protection against Nasr Nlos-BSM? David's Sling will be more ideal perhaps. Is IA considering Iron Dome as a last tier defense of POL dumps,ordance depots,tank sheds from massed missile stikes cuise and AGM.

reddy said...

When India is capable of designing and making of Destroyers(with some outsourced components which is very normal for every country)why is it signing for frigates from Russia?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

How much and in what ways, the Pakistan will be benefited by the junk war machinery that America is going to leave behind after their withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Tejas said...

Sir, In a thread on Tejas mk2 at this site,it was said the shortlisting of mission sensors and avionics suite of mk2 will be completed by October of nxt year but has been delayed by over a year . How smoothly is this advancing and how much progress has been made thus far.
Once Dr Pillai is going to great heights to justify the upranging of Brahmos and again he has been saying recently that MCTR will not be violated. If one is to go by this will plans of raising a 3rd brahmos regiment for Arunachal with a 500 km rasnge get abandoned?

Army has once again revived its interest in irondome and is also looking at David's Sling . Keeping in mind the immediate threat perception emanating from Pakistan , where does Oron Dome come into play when it was designed keeping in mind shorter ranged massed rocket strikes. Nasr with a 150 km rn & a high terminal velocity cant be engaged with Iron dome &Tamir unless the missile rounds are reengineered and redeisgned for the specific purpose . But again Stunner and barak-2 is there for this sort of threats,aint it .

What type of military facilties close to the border is Army contemplating on protecting from Nasr strikes .
Iron Dome nly intercepts rounds which are about to hit the target . Pak missiles can be deliberately set of course for masking its true targets .

There is some confusion regarding the Isreal origin airspace search radar on Shivalik class . Is it ell2238 or 2282 adstar

Gourav said...

Dear Prasunda,
Do u know about this couple?
Dr. Deepak Rao and Dr. Seema
They are providing training to army spl forces for last 17 years. How it is possible for civilian to give training? I mean its good thing... But do our army allows it?

Arup said...

Sir, DRDO has at its disposal a lot of facilities and R&D institutes along with much needed skilled manpower .Why doesnt DRDO itself design,fabricate and productionise missile seekers instead of outsourcing them from Alpha design tech , Data Patterns , VEM .

Why is HAL only the final assembly undertaker for sukhoi fighter jets?Why cant it also manufacture the major assemblies like wings , tails , stabiliers , fuselage sections from raw material stage? HAL did all this itself when it produced Mig-21 and mig-27.

The various major aerospace components and sub assemblies required in AJT Hawk, Su30 projects that aare being built by private smes, are they of very high quality, better than HAL or other defense PSU built compnents and exactly conform to QA and QC down to the range of <1 mm. SMEs catering to Sagarika project and Arihant have the unique distinctions of repeatedly failing to conform to standards barring one sme perhaps.

Howitzer barrels needs to replaced periodically after firing shells. Which Indian SME provides with Bofors, M-46 barrels?

Just like there is continuous product improvement with avionics,radars, turbofans,turboshafts are there similar such improvement schemes in armour of IFV,MBT , APC. BMP ifv has been in production in Medak for over a decade now.Are there any enhancements to protection levels, base armour, steel composition over the original Soviet ones ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: How can aerostats be damaged by the PLA if the aerostats are deeper inside India-controlled territory? Existing Russian Navy Akula-2 SSGNs can always be leased after they’ve undergone mid-life refits & upgradations. There are several Akula-2s that are overdue for such upgrades. There’s no rule which states that only brand-new SSGNs ought to be leased. Bhutan will never drift away from India as alleged by some mischievous news-reports. Matters are not what they’re being perceived to be & the reality is quite different. The same goes for what Lt Gen (Ret’d) Hamid Gul is claiming about the ISI hiding OBL for nine years. But what is most interesting are the revelations coming out of Islamabad after the Abbotabad Commission report was leaked to Al Jazeera & these revelations all point to block obsolescence prevailing within the PAF & the PAF’s very bad relations with the Pakistan Army, as indicated by several Pakistani journalists who were given off-the-record briefings over the past 2 years by the Directorate of ISPR.

To TIN TIN: Yes it indeed is.

To SANGOS: No alien flying discs were ever shot down by humans on this planet. They always made a controlled crash-landing due to EMI-related issues at a time when human beings were only beginning to experiment with microwave directed-energy weapons like radars. Regarding the Sino-Indian boundary issue, stated claims of any country never translates into negotiated agreements.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SAYAN: 28 units per annum. Armour-plating is add-on. Mistral-ATAM is for self-protection against hostile helicopter-gunships & LOHs. Rudra can carry up to 8 x PARS-3LR. There’s no internal space inside Rudra for personnel since there’s an on-board machine gun emplacement & its ammo storage box. Belly-mounted IR jammer will be added on later. DIRCMs are far too expensive. IAF Mi-17V-5’s photos clearly show a laser illuminator on the port-side of the helicopter above the weapons pylons. No hardened air base is being built by IAF anywhere. T-90S only requires vectronics upgrades since the rest is already as good as it can be & does not require tinkering. 290km BrahMos-1 ASCM is good enough for targetting carrier battle groups. Nirbhay LACM will also be on board the S-2, S-3 & S-4 SSGNs. Rudra adheres to the following FAR/MILSPEC standards:
US Army Aeronautical Design Standard-33E (ADS-33E)
Flaw-Tolerant Rotor System: FAR/JAR 29.571, AM 29-28
Crashworthy Fuel System: FAR/JAR 29.952, AM 29-35
Flaw-Tolerant Drive Train with Over Torque Certification: FAR/JAR 29.952, AM 29-28
Turbine Burst Protection: FAR/JAR 29.901, AM 29-36
Composite Spar Main & Tail Rotor Blades with Lightning Strike Protection: FAR/JAR 1309(h), AM 29-40
Engine Compartment Fire Protection: FAR/JAR 29.1193
Redundant Hydraulics & Flaw Tolerant Flight Controls: FAR/JAR 29.571, AM 29-28
Aircraft-Wide Bird Strike Protection: FAR/JAR 29.631, AM 29-40
Crashworthiness Standard: FAR/JAR 29.561, AM 29-38
Crashworthy Seats Conforming to MIL-STD-1472B
Cockpit Instrumentation Lighting Conforming to MIL-STD-85762A
Avionics Databus: MIL-STD-1553B or ARINC-429
Autopilot Accuracy: MIL-F-9490D
Embedded MIL-STD-188-141B ALE Link Protection
Embedded MIL-STD-188-110B data modem

IDRW news-reports are ALWAYS totally crap & balderdash.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To REDDY: Because the reqmts are URGENT & the MoD screwed up big time 13 years ago when it refused to sanction the construction of six Project 17 FFGs & instead sanctioned only three, just like it sanctioned only three Project 15A DDGs instead of the six the IN had asked for.

To Mr.RA 13: No benefits at all. Instead, the PA’s dependence on the US-based OEMs will only increase manifold & obtaining spares at commercial market rates will be a huge problem due to the country’s acute paucity of financial resources. In short, the PA’s liabilities will increase far more than its capabilities.

To TEJAS: The process is still on-going & will be completed by only the year’s end. MTCR adherence will apply to BrahMos-1 Block-1 ASCM but the LACM variants of BrahMos-1 will have 550km-range. IA cannot & will never operate anti-NLOS-BSM systems as that is the IAF’s responsibility & the IAF is staying focussed on the Barak-8/NG LR-SAM & AD-1/AD-2 SAMs for such purposes. Project 17 FFGs all have EL/M-2282 AMDR. EL/M-2238 is only on board INS Viraat, the Project 16A FFGs & some Kashin-2 DDGs.

To GOURAV: Of course it’s allowed. Its called skills outsourcing. Back in the 1980s when IMSF (later MARCOS) was raised, it was Vispy Kapadia who had imparted them training on unarmed combat.

To ARUP: DRDO has only 1/10th of the scientific & industrial facilities/manpower that’s required for the development & production of cutting-edge products. HAL, BEML & private vendors do build sub-assemblies for Su-30MKI but the raw materials like sheet metals etc all come from Russia. The same was the case with MiG-27Ms.

rad said...

HI Prasun
What is causing the jf-17 to crash in pak , lack of trainer or something else.
where will the drdo mount a radar on the rudra or its like in case it is decided to mount a surveillance radar like the selex.
Have the AAD-1 and AAD-2 missile got the same configuration as barak with a booster or is there a new configuration. what is the diff.
why is MHA trashing the alh ? they want a commission in a foreign purchase or purposely to bring the price down.
If we are making the lahat missile why cant we adopt it for the lch as it seems to have an 8km range as well and smaller and lighter , rather than the expensive pars which seems to cost .5$ million a piece!!
elm-2282 seems to be a ground based air traffic and surveillance radar in the elta brochure?

truth88 said...

there is some truth to reports on Bhutan: By M K Bhadrakumar – July 15, 2013

Do not manipulate Bhutan’s democracy

It is only with sadness that one can read Sandeep Dikshit’s report in HIndu newspaper, here, as to how ham-handed India has been toward Bhutan, crudely interfering in its internal affairs. Not only is the Indian establishment advertising itself to be intellectually bankrupt but the Indian leadership has flagged that the more things seem to change in our country’s neighbourhood policies, the more they remain the same.

The upshot of what happened can be summed up as follows. In the first round of parliamentary election in Bhutan in May, the results showed that the ruling Druk Phuensum Tshogpa had a strong winning card to get re-elected, something which made Delhi uncomfortable, given the “independent foreign policy” pursued by the DPT government. So, the pendulum needed to be swung in favor of the opposition People’s Democratic Party. From all appearance, Delhi did a masterly job of ensuring the PDP won.
Three cheers for Bhutanese democracy! On a long-term basis, we are creating a permanent “anti-India” lobby in Bhutan. This sordid manipulation of the Bhutanese political system underscores why India is such a hated country in its region. Who likes a bully?

In fact, one negative fallout of the Bhutan story is going to be that Colombo will be more than ever determined now to do away with the 13th Amendment. The Sri Lankan nationalists fear that Delhi may at some point manipulate any provincial government with delegated powers in the Tamil-dominated regions of northern and eastern Sri Lanka as the tool to advance its geopolitical interests.
Can we fault them from harbouring atavistic fears about Indian hegemony? Do not forget for a moment that Indira Gandhi’s blatant interference in Sri Lankan internal affairs was also provoked by the then President J. R. Jayewardene’s independent foreign policy.
Again, make no mistake, if (or when) she gets re-lected as Bangladesh prime minister, Khaleda Zia is bound to revert to a policy of calibrated antagonism toward India. As for Pakistan, why do we blame its Afghan policy, which is hell-bent on exorcising the Indian influence in Kabul? William Dalrymple’s celebrated essay recently, which is featured by the Brookings (and widely reprinted abroad) — explains how the Indian and Pakistani security agencies are locked in a death dance in the Hindu Kush.

One would have thought that the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi prompted India to repent. Apparently, it isn’t so. Nepal — and now Bhutan. Is it the Maldives next?
Why do we need a “string of pearls” to choke our neck? All China needs to do is to leave us to the shenanigans of our intellectually-bankrupt bureaucrats and their political masters. The perceived Indian “hegemony” will only drive our South Asian neighbours toward deeper engagement with China.
Hardly 72 hours passed since the National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon visited Colombo for the Sri Lankan cabinet to announce the award of yet another big project to Chinese companies — ironically, the first $1.5 phase of the Northern Highway.
And the Chinese companies are going to handle on B.O.T. basis for a quarter century this vital project that aims at integrating the Tamil regions with the Sinhalese-dominated south.

Sangos said...

@Prasun K. Sengupta - It beats me how advanced alien craft can be susceptible to human produced EM waves, when they traversed unscathed through the extreme deadly radiation in interstellar space.

Its the Chinese art of negotiation to start by claiming the neighbor's wife. That said it helps if the neighbor has bigger guns to mellow the proceedings.

Subir said...


1.Why did a senior IN officer recently siad that PHWR hasnt been tested and it will take a few more months? Without testing of PHWR can HAT commence ?

2.Will Arihant take to the seas this year itself?

3.Will Arihant-2,3,4 carry both conventionally armed and nuke armed Nirbhay or nly nuclear tipped ones ?

4.Regarding PAF block obsolence , what are the various obsolete items and hardwares in its inventory besides radars?

5.If it had outdated radars how can it detect and track IAF incursions?What is the level of sophisticationa nd effectiveness of its air defence network comprising of Shorads,MR-SAMs,AAA?

6.Now as the various shortcomings have been detected will PA,PAF invest in building a robust AD system.

7.Isnt Selex IIR seeker equipped Helina much better than PARS-3LR.The former has a range of about 15 km and is much cheaper than Pars-3 which has a range of just 7 km.

8.Does HAL also fabricate wings,fuselage poirtions from Russian supplied raw materials; machine the ac skin OR just accomplishes final assembly from pre formed parts?

9.How many Kashin 2 have EL/M-2238?When did they receive them ?

10.Are there maintainence deficiencies and skilled technicians shortage in IAF AFS Uttarlai and with the No45 squadron. Why are its MiG-21 dropiing one by one out of the sky?

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

Economic Times is reporting that Russia is hiking price of the 5th gen fighter

Any truth in this Prasunda ? Previously the Ruskies had hiked the price of the SU 30MKI as well midway .


Lingaraja said...

"Its the Chinese art of negotiation to start by claiming the neighboür's wife. That said it helps if the neighbour has bigger guns to mellow the proceedings"- you mean bigger dicks Sangos? LoL
Everyone has questions and everyone appreciates PKS's knowledge and willingness to answer, but I think Subir you need to hold the mirror at yourself. It is kind of boring to have a VMT for getting 100 questions answered and then to fire away another 100! No one says you can't or shouldn't ask but this ain't your IT exam with 1,2 3 and 3a,b,c - grow up man - help keep this blog interesting instead of turning it into a Parliamentary question time!

MPatel said...

The price of the PakFa was bound to rise. Just look at the cost of the Eurofighter, Rafael? Both of these are over 100million dollars. Look at the cost of F-35 (around 200+ million) and rising fast. Today the world is one big market place and Russia no longer sells goodies at cheap discounts. Especially highly capable goodies. Only the Chinese stealth birds are likely to be around 100million dolar mark.

Anonymous said...


So, you mean to say India should watch the game when the former party in Bhutan was Anti-Indian despite India subsidizing Gas and Fuel. For countries as that of Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Nepal pursuing Independent Policy is not an option, not a choice. A country as small as these can not have Independent Foreign Policy when they depend on us for everything right from vegetables to satellites.
That Idea is wrong and Hindu Paper is known to publish safe articles at the comfort of the desk in the name of secularism.
In case of SL, they are known to attempt to treat Tamils as second-class citizens by making constitution amendments. Close road and air transit to Nepal and the next hour it comes to Delhi by keeping its tail in between its legs. The problem with Bangladesh and Maldives is with Islamism.
India can not sit idle and expect events will turn in our favour when the dragon and yankees rule the roost. Every country should know its place in world order.
Even India, Europe, Middle Eastern countries align their foreign policies in accordance with US.
Ofcourse, India needs strategic community, strategies which we lack in our genes, and in our culture, to deal with these guys. These people start blackmailing us, showing china and US cards.
We need leaders with BALLS OF STEEL to show every one their place. In essence India should deal with these guys with extreme caution and care and with tailor made strategies. These little puppies are more of nuisance than they think what they worth.

Tejas said...

Sir, Till now were any mission sensors and other avionics for Tejas mk2 selected?
Recently Alpha tech had signed a JV deal with Elettronica for production of T/r elements? What will the end products ts and for what are they destined .
Has tejas mk2 prototype vehicle construction begun?

FGFA will be based on Pak-fa.They will differ only in terms of mission sensors and some avionics specified by airforce. Pak-fa later prototypeds already has a very high percentage of composites in terms of weignt and skin area. Then what is the need for the PDC and even the detailed designing phase for which the contract is yet to be signed? Is this a coverup for some off the record projects to build another stealth aircraft perhaps a strike one likw what happened in case with INS Vikramaditya. Why is so much of designing required when there are already four flying prototypes and a static one.

If the rupee continues to lose its value against dollar then wont it be possible to do MMRCA deal in Euro or other currency instead of dollar? If even next year rupee doesnt gain much Rafale deal will remain unsigned indefinitely.There ought to be some way around this.

Till now has army got any Brahmos blk3 in its inventory? Apart from the 3 earmarked Brahmos regiments will there be more? Can Brahmos LACM batteries positioned in north Easty and along the northern borders target Plaaf airbases- Shigaste, their early warning radar stations,Pla ew statiions,staging areas and missile storage areas. Will Brahmos blk-3 have a cep small enough to target a bridge and hit it in a desired location-pier perhaps.

Anonymous said...

@tejas "
If the rupee continues to lose its value against dollar then wont it be possible to do MMRCA deal in Euro or other currency instead of dollar?"

YOu seems to lack some basic (common)sense as a grown individual

Anonymous said...

We need to add some subjects dealing with Mind & Thought Process, Risk Analysis (Assessment,Prevention, Mitigation), Perception and Contextual Thinking,Lean and Six Sigma Concepts, Psychology based on Maths and Statistics etc to the school,college, university curriculum for every student across India to make every Indian great and valuable. Education Departments, All India Radio, Dedicated TV channel, ISRO, IT firms should form a consortium to bring Virtual Learning Tutorials by setting up digital learning centres across India to make this happen for those outside school. First we need to change the mindset of every Indian to think smartly. This is the surest and immediate way to bring a change in India in a short span of time.

Arjun said...

Hi Prasun,
Don't you think India should invest and research in 3d could revolutionize the entire defense industry; cost, efficiency and quality wise...since that's the bane of our PSU's...reverse engineering of critical parts or entire systems is also possible by just scanning its design and feeding its 3D CAD to the printer.
Though this tech is in its nascent stage could this dent China's manufacturing dominance?

Sayan said...

Sir, How many Rudras can be produced pa 28 was the production rate of Dhruvs. Is the whole Rudra airframe rated at 12.7 mm AP level protection and the imp areas 20 mm protected.

What are the various block obsolence prevailing within PAF and PA. Pls highlight a few. Are their various SS missile systems and SAM also obsolete. Is it true that if such a raid is carried out today the PA and PAK wont be able to do anything or is it a joke made by media?

Is there any substance in this taht the PLA choppers intruded within our airspace to test airdefenenses? Why doesnt any fighters scrambled the momnet it is ssen they are rapidly progressing towards LAC?

During any hostilities woulnt the airspace above the contact battle dominated by area interceptors like mig. Afterall shooting down enemy choppers is the role of Airforce and not IA.

Wont the Hermes laser beam riding missile be a good choice for Rudra? Can the mini Compass laser designator take advantage of the full 20 km range of Hermes? Can it laser designate to such a distance.

Is it coincidence or more than that that 2 Bisons from the same No 45 squadron crashed ?Is this a cse of negligient maintenance.

There is news that IN will be subjecting its Seakings to a deep upgrade. Is it true and what are the features of the upgrade.

Akhil Suri said...

Hi Prasun ,

(1) To what extent will Russia transfer technology related to the PAKFA to India ?

(2) Would the US transfer most of the technology to India if India joins the F 35 project ?

Thank You

Anonymous said...

I asked the same question in relation to military production quite some time ago but didn't get a reply. From what I understand full scale 3d printing that can replace a whole assembly line is still some distance away though both US and China is investing heavily in the technology. In fact, I've recall reading an article a while ago that implies part of the J20 prototype was 3d printed.In fact they've been using it in their space program (see link). So I would say that it would be wise to get into the game early since this would mean one would no longer rely on a global supply chain when you can manufacture complex parts closer to your market.

Tin Tin said...

Is it possible for india to offer visas to these afghans?

Subir said...

Sir, The latest Bison crash was due to pilot error. The R25 turbojet was functionung properly. There was no FOD ingestion. The permitted landing spedd of Mig-21 is around 300-310 kmph. The pilot touched down at a much higher speed. As a result the landing gear couldnt absorb the impact and it broke and the jet crashed nose first and erupted into flames. Any lower than 300 km would stall the jet. MiG-21 is a very tricky and demanding jet to fly.

Anonymous said...

What do you want to do with them? They are simply cheating their Mother Country when IT badly needs them.

You are just as naive as them, useless.

MR said...

What do you think are the implications of 49% FDI decision in defence industry will have on Indian defence manufacturing and R&D?

Littlemaster said...

Sir, What are the various good implications of 49 percent FDI ? It will attract foreign weapons, aerospace giants to invest more and design new products to suit our armed forces needs through JV with Indian PSU and SME but wont these product's IPR held by them ?? And during any hostility and increased tensions the foreign OEM can simply stop supply of essential spares which will adversly affect availability of fleet just like US did with turboshaft spares of SeaKings of Navy ? And in such JV will there be full ToT not the maintence ones nly which will allow Indian companies to build high tech components like single crytsal engine blades,high temp alloys for aerosapce applications, reseatrch into solid propellants?

For carrying just a single Brahmos ALCM are major structural mods required ? What are the exclusive features of Brahmos mini? Besides nuclear strikes cant LRCM be used as a supersonic ASHM?

The last Jaguar darin 3 flight that took place, it involved an IM with ELM-2032 radar. Are there things to point out that is will also be having a mmr radar optimised for ground strikes and terrain avoidance.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: Lack of tandem-seat operational conversion trainers & lack of flight simulators. Only cockpit procedures trainers are available for the JF-17. There is no space available for mounting any kind of target-search radar on Rudra. AD-1/AD-2 will have a longer airframe than the Barak-2. Dhruv ALH family requires at least two regional service/MRO centres, four spares-stocking depots & three flying training simulator centres throughout the country, all of which are presently lacking. Hence the OEMs are always blaming HAL for grossly inadequate product-support. It is not LAHAT, but the CLGM missile that’s being developed by DRDO. Air-launched CLGM as well as ground-launched CLGM from JLTV-type ATVs ought to be developed as well. EL/M-2282 comes in two versions: one for air forces & one for navies.

To TRUTH88: There’s always a counter-narrative when it comes to conspiracy theories. My counter-narrative says that the constitutional monarchy was disenchanted with the previous govt at Thimpu for whatever reasons & therefore wanted a new govt in power from the opposition & therefore the monarchy requested the Govt of India’s assistance in achieving this & consequently, India obliged. At the highest levels of decision-making subterfuge plays a unique role—something which the ‘desi’ journalists & analysts will hardly understand.

To SANGOS: I already explained earlier how many types of alien spaceships/beamships exist & therefore those vessels used for inter-gallactic travel cannot be used for inter-stellar travel & those for inter-stellar travel can’t be used for inter-planetary travel. Therefore, don’t expect all these vessels to all have the same design/performance characteristics.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) Very stupid question. 2) Very stupid question. 3) Very stupid question. 4) Almost everything barring the JF-17s, Saab 2000 AEW & CS & ZDK-03 AEW & CS. 5) Again a very stupid question. Airspace surveillance by anyone is NEVER conducted by air-defence radars of any kind in peacetime, but by military ATC radars. 6) There’s no money to do so. 7) Again a very stupid question. Why should an ATGM with 8km-range require a target acquisition sensor with 15km-range? Why are you desisting from applying common-sense to your queries? 8) Answered that long time ago. 9) Do your own research. 10) MiG-21 Bison was meant for retirement by 2011. One cannot continue flogging a dead horse.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Why should that be surprising, given the steady slide in the Rupee’s value? After all, the Ruskies have never inked any US$-denominated contract with India—all their contracts have been EURO-denominated since 2003, which makes it harder for India.


To TEJAS: Of course. The AAR probe & some weapons ejection racks are from Cobham Aerospace of UK for Tejas Mk2. Cockpit NG from ELBIT Systems has already been selected. Alpha’s JV with Elettronica concerns the ELT-568 AESA-based airborne distributed-architecture jammers of the type on board MiG-29UPG & also destined for Tejas Mk2. PDC is not only for airframe design optimization, but more importantly for optimising the design of interior bulkheads & their related wiring harnesses & environmental control system. M-MRCA deal is Euro-denominated, not US$ denominated. France like Russia & all EU-member-states never deals with US$. Four, not three BrahMos-1 Regiments. BrahMos-1 is for pinpoint airstrike, meaning its CEP is less than 2 metres.

To ARJUN: Of course that ought to be the case. But presently only private-sector companies will be able to do that in India, just like they have been the first ones to create virtual-reality design labs.

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