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Wednesday, July 24, 2013

Decoding The Indian Army’s Mounted Gun System (MGS) Procurement Saga

It was in the early 1990s that the Indian Army’s (IA) Directorate of Artillery had realised that technological advancements in wheeled all-terrain vehicles had made the wheeled/motorised self-propelled howitzer a viable option, be in the plains, in the mountains, semi-desert or desert terrain. Accordingly, the IA’s first GSQR for a potential 155mm/45-calibre wheeled/motorised self-propelled howitzer (SPH) procurement programme, formulated in 1994 and amended in 1998 (which resulted in breaking down the requirement into two questionable components: 180 wheeled SPHs and 814 motorised SPHs, with the latter requirement being renamed as the Mounted Gun System, or MGS). This was further amended in November 2001 to change the desired calibre length from 45-calibre to 52-calibre for both types of SPHs.
Prior to that, in June 1999 during the conduct of OP Vijay against Pakistan, Lt Gen Shamsher S Mehta, the IA’s then Deputy Chief of Army Staff (Planning and Systems), in an ‘out-of-the-blue’ incident, had proposed the outright leasing of 40 Denel Land Systems/LIW-made G-6 Rhino 155mm/45-calibre wheeled SPHs, with the eventual aim of procuring 180 new-build G-6s under a sole-source contract devoid of any competitive bidding process once OP Vijay had ended. This unsolicited proposal, which then moved rapidly and mysteriously upwards within the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for approval, stressed the dubious and questionable ‘commonality’ factor between the G-6 and the tracked Bhim 155mm/52-calibre SPH—the latter being developed since 1995 by the MoD-owned and Avadi-based Combat Vehicles R & D Establishment. Eventually, the IA’s proposal to first lease and later buy the G-6s off-the-shelf was fortunately rejected by the MoD’s Finance Department as being impractical and too costly. In a parallel event, consequent to the MoD lifting its ban on procuring products and services from Sweden-based Celsius Group, the latter informed IA HQ in September 1999 that the only wheeled SPH available from its stable was the 155mm/39-calibre FH-77B05L39 mounted on a Volvo 6 x 6 truck. In addition, IA HQ was also told that Celsius Group (now owned by BAE Land Systems) had a prototype of a 155mm/45-calibre wheeled SPH in an advanced stage of development. After considering these proposals, the then Chief of the Army Staff (Gen Ved Prakash Malik) had in October 1999 approved the proposal for procuring an initial 210 units of the 155mm/45-calibre MGS meant solely for deployment along the LoC and LAC. The main argument of IA HQ in favour of this proposal to issue RFP exclusively to BAE Land Systems was the saving of ToT-related costs, facilitation of easy absorption of technologies and ease of operations and logistics support for the system. However in March 2000, MoD asked Army HQ to define its need in terms of the required quantum of towed/truck-mounted howitzers and whether they ought to be of 45- or 52-calibre or both.
Subsequently, India’s Cabinet Committee on National Security (CCNS), in June 2001, approved the procurement through competitive bidding of 180 155mm/52-calibre wheeled SPHs. Subsequently, an RFP was issued in January 2002 to 11 international vendors, of which technical offers from five vendors were received. Of these, the offer from only Denel Land Systems/LIW was found to comply with the GSQR and was consequently recommended for induction into service. However, due to the MoD imposing a ban on all dealings with Denel Land Systems in June 2005, the MoD terminated this procurement process in July 2005. Subsequently, the MoD’s Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC) in June 2006 decided to procure 210 wheeled SPHs and its RFP was issued in February 2007 to 29 international vendors, but only one vendor--Konstrukta Defence of Slovakia teamed with BEML--submitted its technical offer. Due to a single-vendor situation, this RFP too was retracted. A fresh RFP was issued by IA HQ in February 2008 to five vendors and the field-trials (for evaluating mobility and firepower parameters) of wheeled SPHs from two vendors—Konstrukta Defence’s Zuzana and Rheinmetall Defence Systems’ RTG-52—were in progress on a no-cost no-commitment basis by June 2010 and were concluded by May 20, 2011 at altitudes of 3,700 metres in the Karbuthan Field-Firing Range in Kargil and Mahe Field-Firing Range in Ladakh, and at the Mahajan Field-Firing Range in Pokhran.
However, in September 2011, the MoD indefinitely suspended the Rs.4,726-crore RFP for buying 180 wheeled SPHs after allegations surfaced about manipulations in the evaluation processes  of the field-trials. IA HQ had submitted its trials report to the MoD in August 2011, but an anonymous and widely- circulated letter of complaint alleged a cover-up in the defects of one of the competitors—Konstrukta Defence/BEML. Signed by ‘a group of concerned officials’, the letter alleged that the IA covered up the fact that the Zuzana’s barrel had exploded during field-trials at Pokhran in July 2010. IA HQ subsequently confirmed this incident and stated that the defective barrel was replaced by the OEM. The MoD’s Directorate General of Quality Assurance (DGQA) submitted a report to IA HQ four months after the incident and the report pin-pointed faulty 155mm ammunition made by the MoD-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) as being the cause of the barrel’s premature shearing. However, the anonymous letter of complaint sent to the MoD had contained an attached copy of an internal test report from a DGQA laboratory that certified that ODB-supplied defective ammunition was not at fault.
Regarding the MGS, on February 18, 2002 IA HQ issued RFPs to five foreign OEMs for an initial 300 units (comprising an off-the-shelf purchase of 180 units and the supply of 120 units in knocked-down condition for equipping 40 Regiments) and invited them to subject their products to firepower/mobility field-trials on a no-cost no-commitment basis in India starting April 2002. The RFP recipients included BAE Land Systems’ SWS Defence subsidiary (formerly Bofors AB) with its FH-77BD/Archer, Denel Land Systems/LIW with its T-5-52 Mk2000 Condor, GIAT Industries (now Nexter Systems) with its Caesar, and Soltam Systems with its ATMOS. However, both SWS Defence and GIAT Industries declined to take part in these competitive trials as they had then suspected the MoD and IA HQ to have already decided to award the contract to Denel Land Systems/LIW. Consequently, only the ATMOS and T-5-52 Mk2000 arrived in India for field-trials on a no-cost-no-commitment basis, but the IA’s total preoccupation with OP Parakram at that time resulted in the field-trials being postponed indefinitely.
Present Status
As of now, IA HQ has decided to combine the requirement for both wheeled SPHs and MGS into one unified requirement (which should have been done way back in the late 1990s itself!) and last month issued a RFI seeking technical offers of 155mm/52-cal MGS from interested international OEMs teamed up with Indian industrial vendors. It is believed that the respondents are likely to be Nexter Systems teamed with Larsen & Toubro (offering the Caesar), BAE Systems teamed with Mahindra Defence offering the FH-77BW L52 Archer, Serbia’s Yugoimport SDPR teamed with Punj Lloyd offering the Nora-B52K1, Krauss Maffei-Wegmann teamed with Ashok Leyland offering the 22.5-tonne AGM (on a 6 x 6 truck), and DENEL Land Systems teamed with TATA Power SED offering a customised version of the T-5-52 Mk2000 Condor. 
By the time matters graduate over to the RFP issuance stage, IA HQ is most likely to lean in favour of MGS offers that show them to, firstly, already be in series-production for an established client-base, and which are likely to promise maximum indigenisation through the licenced-production of up to 950 units, since the initial 44 units of the selected MGS will be imported off-the-shelf. 
Consequently, only three (Caesar, FH-77BW L52 Archer and Nora-B52K1) of the five above-mentioned products will qualify as the shortlisted contenders. Of these, the undisputed market-leader is the 17.5-tonne Caesar (see: that uses a Soframe/Unimog 6 × 6 truck which can easily be accommodated within transport aircraft like the Indian Air Force’s C-130J-30 Super Hercules. To date, France’s Armée de Terre has ordered 72 Caesars, while the Saudi Arabian National Guard has ordered 132 (along with six simulators), six units have already been delivered to the Royal Thai Army, while in November 2012 Indonesia ordered 37 of them.  
The 30-tonne FH-77BW L52 Archer (see: & comes mounted on a modified Volvo A30D 6 x 6 articulated all-terrain hauler. Confirmed orders for this MGS have to date been placed by Sweden (for 24 units) and Norway (24 units). The Archer is the only available MGS that comes armed with a Lemur remote weapon system (RWS), comprising a gyro-stabilised, fragment-protected day/night sight with a 7.62mm general-purpose machine gun that is installed on the roof of the cab. In addition, the Archer (like the Caesar) comes along with Sagem’s  compact, standalone ULISS 30XP topographic positioning system that provides accurate decametric-class positioning of indirect artillery systems that do not have embedded navigators. It can also set metric-class topographic points to realign the navigation of navigator-equipped weapons systems. Lastly, it enables the elaboration of high-precision centimetric-class points for mapping or geodesic use. ULISS 30XP guarantees these levels of performance, even without GPS, so as to meet mission integrity requirements. It can easily be mounted on any light, 4-wheel drive type vehicle and operated by a small team. ULISS 30XP is based on Sagem’s Sigma 30 RLG-based inertial navigation system, in a Sigma 30XP version dedicated to topographic applications. An integrated theodolite enables the positioning of remote reference points and a touch-screen offers a user-friendly way of ensuring mission progress and displaying the measurements required by the command. It uses combat-proven components, such as the Sigma 30 unit and the CDU 2G control and display unit.
Lastly, Yugoimport SDPR’s Nora-B52K1 (see: comes mounted on a KamAZ 63501 8 × 8). To date, 30 units are in service with Myanmar’s army, while Bangladesh last year ordered an initial 18 units along with three ULISS 30XP topographic positioning systems.
The one offer that most certainly will not be entertained will be the T-5-52 Mk2000 Condor, which has been dubbed as being 55% indigenous by content, and which was jointly developed by TATA Power SED and South Africa’s DENEL Land Systems to meet an Indonesian requirement. Essentially a re-engineered version of the T-5-52 Mk2000 Condor (which was first showcased in-country during DEFEXPO 2002 along with SOLTAM Systems’ ATMOS, with both of them at that time making use of a TATRA-built truck), the latest ‘avatar’ of this weapon system was unveiled in March/April 2012 at the DEFEXPO 2012 expo at Pragati Maidan, New Delhi. At that time, TATA Power SED officials seemed confident of exporting this MGS to Indonesia. DENEL Land Systems supplied the monoblock gun barrel fitted with a double baffle muzzle brake, gun cradle with an integrated buffer system, swing-and-slide breech mechanism, electrically activated firing mechanism, autoloader/rammer, ballistics charts, muzzle velocity radar, an automatic laying and land navigation system using a RLG-INS, a panoramic optical-mechanical sight mounted directly to the trunnion, incorporating a compensation system for trunnion cant, which forms a backup for indirect fire, and a telescopic sight for direct fire that is mounted to the compensation system. TATA Power SED, on the other hand, developed the digital ballistics computer, telecommunications system, the hydraulic system that supplies hydraulic power for deployment of the outriggers and the top-carriage hydraulics, all on-board electrical systems, the gun management computer, and the ‘Rajak’ driver’s vision enhancement system. The customised 8 x 8 truck comes from TATA Motors.

Overall, TATA Power SED’s solution is being touted as being the cheapest option, a claim that will easily be decisively contested by the likes of other contenders like the Nexter Systems/Larsen & Toubro partnership and the Yugoimport SDPR/Punj Lloyd partnership. Moreover, a simple visual comparison between TATA Power SED’s solution and the Caesar reveals that the latter’s overall design is superior as it can be airlifted by transporters like the C-130J-30. In addition, the Caesar has also been combat proven in both Afghanistan and along the Thai-Cambodian border.

Coming now to the RFI, there are some laughable observations that I have noted and which are worth highlighting. Firstly, the RFI’s page 4 asks about charge-bags, when it is a known fact-of-life that all yet-to-procured field artillery howitzers of the IA will use only bi-modular propellant charges or BMPC (comprising both high-zone modules and low-zone modules) that the DRDO’s HEMRL has already developed for IFG Mk2 105mm light guns, M-46 130mm field guns and all types of 155mm howitzers. Secondly, on the same page, it asks if the MGS is compatible with current types of ammunition used by the IA. This question, to say the very least, is hilarious, since all types of 155mm rounds now being produced by the OFB are fully compliant with the Quadrilateral Ballistics Agreement (originally signed by the US, the US, Italy and Germany and later adhered to by all manufacturers of 155mm howitzers and their ammunition and BMPCs) and the Joint Ballistic Memorandum of Understanding (JBMoU), both of which ensure that one nation could fire other nations’ ammunition and BMPCs from its own 155mm howitzers with known ballistics tables. The HEMRL-developed eight-zone charge system, like its global counterparts, uses triple-base propellant and is divided into three separate cartridges, containing zones 1 and 2, 3 to 7 and 8, respectively. The charge system is ballistically balanced, and has a clean combustion.
Thirdly, the RFI makes no mention of the need for items such as integral, vehicle-mounted remote weapons station and driver’s night-sight (both of which are imperative when the MGS is deployed for mountain warfare), standalone topographic positioning system, meteorological station (of the type already operational with Smerch-M and Pinaka-1 MBRL Regiments, with the former using Russia-supplied hardware while the latter uses hardware supplied by Avibras of Brazil), and firing simulators. 

Lastly, there is the RFI for 6 x 6/8 x 8 trucks issued last October by the MoD-owned Indian Ordnance Factories’ Jabalpur-based Gun Carriage Factory, which has initiated a project for developing an indigenous MGS—supposedly a truck-mounted version of the 155X45 towed 155mm/45-calibre howitzer that is now being developed. When it is abundantly clear that the IA will not accept anything short of a 155mm/52-cal MGS, one wonders why exactly has the MoD allowed the IOF’s GCF to issue such a ridiculous RFI.   
And when it comes to fuzes for all types of tube artillery rounds and air-delivered bombs in use by India’s armed forces, do rest assured that they are all imported from Reutech Fuchs Electronics of South Africa through ECIL. The images below confirm this beyond any shadow of doubt.



Hi PrasunDa ,

Good to have you back .

I was reading Bharat Karnad's book - India's Nuclear Policy where he mentions that the IAF is likely to obtain the TU 160

However, till date it has not materialized . Don't you think that the TU 160 provides tremendous benefits and India should make efforts to lease/procure it ?


Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the new article. Its worth the long wait.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: The author of that pulp-fiction is a Class A bullshiter. No leased platform can ever become an operational nuclear weapons-armed platform, be it an Akula-2 SSGN or Tu-160.

Bhaswar said...


How many air crafts will compose the BARCAP of the Indian CBG at any given time? Is there a chance that shore based aerial tanker and AEW&C support will be extended to the CBG?


Thank You PrasunDa .

However, do you believe that India should design , buy a strategic bomber like the TU 160 or B1.

The biggest advantage they give is that a number of cruise missiles can be fired at enemy targets from stand off distance .


R.S. Swamy said...

Hi Prasun, you have told me in the previous thread that Prithvi-3 has already bee developed and work is underway to fit it inside a canister...

From what I know, it must shed it's large fins on the upper side in order to be canisterised, am I right?

So I believe Prithvi-3 will look different from the P-1 and 2, right?

Does it look something like this rendering? -

On what truck will it be mounted after canisterised? Tatra or new Tata/Ashok Leyland trucks?

TRUTH88 said...


I watched the youtube on Caesar. When you compare it with SH-1 specs you have posted. They look pretty similar to me, looks and performance wise. Did the chinese get help from the french? Is there some sort of collab going on under then table? Who other then china operates SH-1?

Thank you.

DAshu said...

from you tube links Caesar just looks great. only problem might be no auto loader.

DAshu said...

good to have you back after a long gap . hope you are doing well .

Tejas said...

Sir, When can Tejas mk 2 prototype fabrication begin at the earliest? How many LSIP and PV are planned in the upcoming Tejas R&d project .

Regarding the COG shifts, redesigning of internal engine mounts has ADA contacted GE engines yet ?
Isnt Tejas capable of taking off with its full weapons payload under hot & high situations . During the latest series of high altitude trials in Leh , a problem was found with GE F404. CAS told that some minor mods had to be carried out on mk 1 for smooth operations from high altitude airbases. Was any prgs made on this front.

How will be the Archer mgs from the stable of BAE Sweden ? It has a RWS, night vision kits,the cab is fully armoured,it ofeers auto loading. It can go on board a C-17. About 60 percent of all ALGs in India has a runway lengthy enough for C-17 takeoff and landing with a 35 t payload. How does the Atmos stack up against the rest ? Can it be squeezed inside C-130J ? Hw is the MGS from Kraus Wagner Maffei . It is too heavy to be transportable by C-130 but can be carried by C-17.
Is projectile loading assiter avialable on CAESAR if the customer wants ? ATMOS and Denel T 5 have them.

Finally are there any timeframes for the entire process? When will field evaluations commence, when can the 1st Mgs be handed over to army after contract signing and other stuff.
What is the matter with towed and tracked howitzers ? If army is still guuning fr just around 1000 Mgs, it indicates it has some big plans with towed artillery pieces.

Cant OFB ask Bae for ToT transfer for in country maunfacturing of 52 cal FH77 instead of the 45 cal. Besides, arent any modern guided projectiles(laser and GPS guided), rocket assisted projectilesc, cargo rounds to be purchased as a part of this deal .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: That depends directly on the threat perceptions in wartime conditions. Against Pakistan, for instance, only a solitary MiG-29K armed with only AAMs will be in the air along with a solitary Ka-31, with another two MiG-29Ks kept on standby for ripple-launch from the carrier’s deck. Shore-based AAR & AEW & CS platforms headed for a CBG tend to give away the positional coordinates of the CBG in the high seas & therefore the CBG has on-board Ka-31s plus MiG-29Ks equipped with UPAZ-1 aerial refuelling pods for buddy-buddy refuelling. Shore-based AAR platforms will come in handy only for LRMR/ASW platforms like the P-8I PROVIDED the P-8Is in future are equipped with receiving booms.

To VIKRAM GUHA: In India’s case going for such strategic bombers will be an overkill & instead it will be far better to equip a Su-30MKI with three Nirbhays (two underwing & one belly-mounted). A flight of 4 x Su-30MKIs will thus be able to launch 12 Nirbhay ALCMs—not bad by any reckoning.

To R S SWAMY: Cannister-encased Prithvi-3’s mid-body control-fins will be foldable & will be deployed after the missile is hot-launched from its cannister, just like the mechanisms employed for the BrahMos-1, Nirbhay & Shaurya. Prithvi-3 after launch will thus look exactly like the present-day Prithvi-1/2 & Dhanush. All cannister-encased Prithvi-3s will use the very same existing BEML/TATRA trucks, since the Prithvi-3s will replace all existing Prithvi-1s on a one-for-one basis, meaning there will be no need to procure new-build trucks & the existing BEML/TATRA trucks will be slightly modified to accommodate the cannister-encased Prithvi-3. Presently, all conventionally-armed Prithvi-1 SS-150 NLOS-BSMs are deployed with three missile groups each of which is a part of the IA’s three existing artillery divisions. The plan in future is to create a Strategic Rocket Artillery Corps (armed with Prithvi-3 & BrahMos-1 Blocks-2/3) directly under Army HQ (i.e. its usage & deployment being dictated solely by the IA’s COAS) similar to the PRC’s 2nd Artillery Corps. The IA’s three existing artillery divisions will thus in future be equipped with only 155mm/52-cal howitzers, Pinaka-1/2 & Smerch-M MBRLs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TRUTH88: There was no ToT between Nexter Systems & NORINCO. Presently, only the PLA operates the SH-1, & the Pakistan Army is expected in future to acquire it since it had evaluated the SH-1 in Gilgit-Baltistan way back in 2007.

To DASHU: VMT. Was rather busy preparing the paperwork for setting up with FDI (about US$100 million in all) a dedicated OEM-authorised MRO facility in northeastern India to cater to the MRO needs of PT6A turboshaft & VK-2500 turboshaft & their related gearboxes, fuel-control systems & APUs & propellers/rotor blades, plus an avionics/instrumentation repair workshop.
The Caesar indeed has autoloaders for both the ammo round & the BMCS, but requires these to be manually placed in the autoloaders. The only MGS with a magazine-based fully automated autoloading system is the Archer, but the downside is such sutomation doesn’t come cheap, it is maintenance-heavy & it also increases the maximum weight of the MGS. The Caesar, though, lacks the RWS & driver’s day/night sight—items that can easily be co-developed & customised by DRDO in partnership with TATA Power SED under a sub-contract awarded by the Nexter Systems/Larsen & Toubro partnership. In addition, the DRDO, Nexter Systems/Larsen & Toubro partnership, OFB & TATA Power SED could combine forces to develop a warship-mounted 155mm/52-cal naval artillery version of the Caesar for retrofit on to the IN’s existing P-15/P-15A/P-15B DDGs & other futuristic principal surface combatants. In my view, this will be a far more fruitful exercise instead of trying to develop a towed 155mm/52-cal ATAGS.

Vikram Guha said...

Thanks PrasunDa.

All the best with your project in North East .


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TEJAS: Tejas Mk2’s prototype fabrication process already began last April. At least three flying prototypes (LSPs) are required & no PVs will be necessary. ADA has been in touch with GE Aero Engines for a very long time. There were no problems with the GE-built F404IN20 turbofans & only the built-in FADEC had to be recalibrated. ALGs as defined by the IAF can accommodate only An-32Res & C-130J-30s, and not C-17As. ATMOS will not be competing for the IA’s MGS reqmt since the ATMOS version now being marketed by ELBIT Systems has only a 39-calibre barrel. Both the ATMOS & AGM are systems that have not been ordered by anyone, especially by their countries of origin & therefore the IA will rule them out since it does not want to act as the guinea-pig. Projectile-loading assister confers no clear-cut performance advantages to either towed 155mm howitzers or MGs & instead it only adds avoidable extra weight. The above narrative clearly illustrates how the procurement timelines were manipulated & not adhered to, starting with the uncalled-for distinction being drawn between wheeled SPH & MGS. Issuance of RFPs is not expected before early 2015. Towed 155mm/52-cal howitzers are totally irrelevant in manoeuvre warfare & sooner the IA’s Training & Doctrine Command (ARTRAC) realises this the better, since this will help save all the money the DRDO seems hell-bent on wasting on the ATAGS project. Hell, even the OFB is all gung-ho about developing a MGS version of the 155X45 towed howitzer! GPS-guided 155mm projectiles are likely to be developed by DRDO.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: VMT. Will design a new website for the MRO centres once the facilities are up & running & will notify all about it through this blog.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.If everything goes according to schedule when can the 1st MGS be expected of becoming operational.

2.Besides the 117 desi Bofors already ordered, hw many more are going to be ordered?

3.Will the M777 deal be signed in the coming months. Its been hanging around since 2011.

4.Are there any hiccups in FGFA program as has been reported by desi media like cost overruns,delays, Wont the 1st prototype be arriving next year?

5.How can the Col once say that F-35 is as effective as Su-35BM and as cheap as Rafale when the tier 2 and 3 partners are all very skeptical about the project, want to cut down orders due to soaring costs. US DoD ahs been pleading with them nt to cut down orsders as it will force the entire F-35 program to enter into a deathspirale

6.Will your comapny's MRO facilties in NE provide Mro service to IAF's fleet of Mi-17v5 and Pilatus trainers ? When will these facilties be up and running. It means IAF will no longer have to rely solely on 3 BRD in Chandigarh for mro of mi-17v5. What about TVM-117 on mi-17v1?

7. Can u pls provide ur comapny link. Atleast the name. And why dont u establish mro facilities for R-25,29,RD-33MK turbojets ?It will be a huge help to IAF.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

This is very interesting:

The security agencies are baffled by continuous sightings of twin unidentified luminous objects in the Ladakh region of Jammu and Kashmir, in an area along the India-China border. The mystery has deepened after the border-guarding troops deployed in Thakung, near Pangong Tso Lake, first sighted “unidentified flying objects” late last year. It was suspected to be Chinese UAVs snooping on the Indian side. With China outrightly denying any knowledge of the objects and the DRDO failing to provide a clear picture, the Centre has roped in the Indian Institute of Astrophysics to study the mysterious objects. Interestingly, the special team of scientists has submitted its report to the Union home ministry saying these appear to be “celestial bodies”. The security agencies, however, are not buying the argument and want a deeper probe. “The matter was raised with China during flag meetings where they denied any knowledge and suggested we shoot them down. But that is not possible as these objects are very high up in the sky,” a top government official said on condition of anonymity. A special team of MHA and MoD officials also visited the region last month to debrief troops. Reports indicated these yellow spheres were rising up on the horizon from the Chinese side, gliding across the sky for three to four hours before disappearing. The DRDO, after studying the matter, said these objects are too far above for their technology to precisely decipher their nature. Worried, the MHA then asked the Indian Institute of Astrophysics to give a precise assessment of these objects. The astrophysics institute has now said these objects are stationary and resemble celestial bodies. The reason why they are visible so clearly at that axis is because of the terrain and topography, it has said in its report shared with the MHA and MoD. However, the IIA has also sought more time to conduct further studies to "conclusively" solve the mystery. The report will now be sent to the China Study Group, the country’s apex body on Sino-Indian border disputes.

What the MoD ought to do is fly up an EL/M-2084 Arudhra MMR near the site & start radiating at max transmitted power in the direction of these ‘celestial objects’ & see what happens next.

Subir said...

Sir, they will start dropping frm the sky. They can also be US black project uav based on tech derived from reverse engineering the alien spacecratfs. Isnt the saying of Indian in of Astrophysics part of DIP that they are celestial bodies. A Armygen was saying it was impossible to shoot them down. They are too high. By too high what did he mean ? Modern sam systems can reach 80k ft.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) No one in Army HQ quite knows what the procurement schedule is. 2) IA does not want more than 114 FH77X45s & instead wants to standardise on 155mm/45-cal barrels. 3) LW-155 procurement is likely to be inked in this fiscal year. 4) No hiccups that I know of. 5) Like I explained in the previous thread, he is not aware of the ground realities & is parroting only what his paymasters have told him to do so. 6) Only if the IAF wants me to purely on prevailing market-rates. I have a huge export market to cater to in the region. 7) I’m not setting up the facilities to help the IAF nor to engage in charity. It’s all about tapping a business opportunity & making the most of it. MRO facilities for R-11, R-25-300, R-29B-300, RD-33-3 & RD-33MK turbofans already exist at HAL’s Koraput facility.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: The IIA has no available database required for the scientific study of such aerial phenomena, rest assured. In contrast, in China such subjects are seriously studied & researched. In addition, such flying-discs have in the past successfully jammed CW/PW target illuminators of air-defence artillery systems over both Edwards & Nellis AFBs in the US. However, high-power microwave energy concentrations towards them have in the past resulted in such objects making controlled crash-landings.

Pratap Kumar said...

Prasun, is it possible for you to lay down a suggestion to the MoD to deploy an EL/M-2084 in the region and use it to make the discs crash-land?

Akhil Suri said...

Hi Prasun ,

Why has law & order deteriorated so rapidly in Kolkata ? It was a pretty safe city when I was there in the 90s.Today I read that a TV anchor was molested in Howrah & no passerby came to help her.

Is this because of the large influx of Bangladeshi Muslims & Biharis ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRATAP KUMAR: Did That already 90 days ago.

To AKHIL SURI: Kolkata is still very much the same today as it was in the 1990s or even before that. Incidents like the latest one are typically bound to happen in such areas as well as near the Diamond Harbour area at this time-period because of the on-going Panchayat elections in all the rural areas around Kolkata & the rest of WB. It is during such times that the poor & unemployed are showered with all kinds of ‘desi’ alcohol-based beveriges/goodies by the competing political parties & this is the end-result of it all. And as you know, the law enforcement forces are not exactly available for their regular beat-patrols since they’ve been deployed elsewhere during the Panchayat elections. Too bad I wasn’t around at the scene of the crime, since I definitely would have relished such an opportunity to unleash my own style of DABBANG-3 with my hockey-stick on these drunken retards. Presently, the non-Bengali influx is not from Bihar, but from Jharkhand. All manual labourers & taxi/bus/truck drivers are from Jharkhand, & not from Bihar or Bangladesh. Some cigarette/pa-shop owners are from Nepal, based onm what I saw the last time I was in Kolkata.

R.S. Swamy said...

Hi Prasun ji.

1) I have seen pictures of the armed variant of
the DRDO Daksh robot. I've read about it and learnt
that it can be equipped with a .50cal MG and/or
a 40mm grenade launcher.

Such a robot will prove useful in counter
insurgecy ops and maybe even the battlefield.

Are any Indian CAPFs or Army looking to buy

2) Have you any info what other types of
weapons it can carry? Iis it possible
to carry a 6000rpm minigun or an
ATGM launcher on this bot?

3) Any progress on the multi caliber
gun being developed by DRDO?

4) Who do you think is behind the attack
on Kamra airbase that destroyed a
Saab AEW plane of PAF?

What was their motive behind doing

5) I have read that most of the rapes
and molestations happening in Delhi/NCR
are the work on manual day-labourers
from the central-eastern states, the
ones that have most Maoisr activity in them.

Is there a mechanism in place to contain
or control these labourers and their actions
on the streets after work?

This has been happening since so long
the govt. ought to do something about it!

LURKER said...


Surely sending an IAF PHALCON to the area where these UFOs have been spotted is the WORST thing India could possibly do? These AWACS are one of the most advanced such systems on the planet and easily the most powerful/capable system in the region. Could this not all be a Chinese ploy to get India to do exactly that and send one of these beasts out to investigate whilst the Chinese such up all the frequencies and data coming off this system??

And do you genuinely believe these are extra terrestrials/Aliens and not just some as get inexplicable natural phenomena?

Also, when will the deal for 2 follow-on PHALCON AWACS be signed sir?

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.Wont Krauss Nafeei AGM be a good choice although it hasnt been in production.Its parent Panzer is in widespread service.Its between CAESAR and Archer. It is fully automated,carries 30 ready to fire rounds and weighs 22.5t. It will fit inside a C130J at the expense of smaller fuel load. Better among all the three will be Bae Archer.

2.If thyeBMCS designed by HEMRL is in series production why will there be a fresh round of state trials with them next month? They are already in operational use.

3.If the IA wants to standardise on 155mm/52 cal,it is pretty sure then that RFI for such towed artillery pieces will be issued soon. Cant MoD fast track this entire field artillery modernisation scheme by cutting lose various bureacratic producers that tends to delay things. Cant this op be executed on a war footing basis ?

4.There isnt any news on the upgunning of around 600 M46 to 155mm/45 cal standards by Bharat Forge. Is there any progress on this ?


Why are Milan 2t still being bought? What happened to the fire and forget 3rd gen ATGM deal in which Spike and FGm-148 were competing neck to neck . Around 4500 are to be purchased.

6. As far as i and everyone knew aerostat mounted longe range radar's field trials and evealuations were going on. Then from whered did RM clear the purchase of 2 such radars? Which radar had been selected for this ?

7.Can you pls provide some insight into the upgradation of older mi17, v1 perhaps. What is included in this upgradation. Last time there was a limited upgradation on ariund 40 of them and Honeywell provided with the glass cockpits.

8.Cant the 8 Tu-142 be modified to carry Brahmos alcm,Brahmos mini, Nirbhay and 3M54E. It has a payload of 15 tonnes. It can carry around 6 Brahmos and 10 Nirbhays. Russian naval aviation already has a missile carrier variant of Tu-142. They will have a long endurance compared to sukhois even while carrying the max authorised payload and there wont be any logistics headache of refuelling them midair.

If those ufos adversely response to the proposed deployment of El/m-2084 intenionally against them.They may retaliate perhaps. Many ICBM have been blown in their launch pads in former UUSR during the 60s,70s,80s. All such controlled crash landings were due to unintentional radar emissions from high power military ATC radars and engagement radars .

Anshuman Chakravorty said...

Sir, VMT for this article. I love your blog. Sir, I have searched the net for pics of the rafale which show any missiles or bombs mounted on the two hardpoints just beneath the air intakes, but found none. So, are they of any other use other than for the damocles pod. Also can the IAF utilize those hardpoints for other purposes.
Thanks in advance.

Bhaswar said...

VMT Prasun Sir, as always you remain the ONLY source for the questions which no one on the net can answer.

And may you find good fortune in your business venture Sir.

Q- Has someone gotten to Ajai Shukla Ji? How is the Mk.1 supposed to be all that considering the IAF still hasn't even formulated the books so to say on how to operate it. In my abjectly amateur opinion we are still a good 2 years away from seeing any tangible benefits from it.

Q- His point on the AOA is sort of invalid, no? Since you yourself revealed long time back that its AOA in a air to air config was never the issue to begin with?

Q- Can the Kamov-31 be used to track inbound ASCM which exploit the radar clutter zone in a sea skimming mode and then provide target illumination to guide in an interceptor? Do we have any existing or planned capabilities for the sort of time/data sharing capabilities of the Aegis system?

Q- When can we hope to see the refined Sudharshan-NG, air launched BrahMos? You had mentioned something about an advanced ALCM other than the BrahMos? What happened to that and something about a Taurus KEPD like weapon being developed.

Q- Sir I had written two posts on how accurate would you say they are-


"@skysthelimit @Kloitra @Secur @Agnostic_Indian Furthermore compare the air-frame of the AKG and the SY-400 SRBM.
This isn't just a passing resembance, the air-frame is exactly the same with only the control surface arrangement being different between the two versions of the AKG (the AGM version is an exact replica of the SY-400 while the ASM version has a different design for the forward control surfaces). The reason why people have opined that its a YJ-12 derivative* is because of its (AKG) flight path. In SY-400's case the AKG not only shares the same flight path (minus the boost phase) but also the same air-frame.

* (something that people have picked up from wiki and thus are assuming it to be a CM like the YJ platform. None of them bothered to open the link shown as reference for stating that the AKG is a YJ derivative, had they done so they would find that the link cited doesn't state that at all. Here's the cited link- China Develops CM-400AKG Pakistan's Hypersonic Carrier Killer Missile For JF-17 | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS. That's the thing with Wiki- it can provide highly accurate information BUT only if you actually read the cited link AND check its veracity)"

Bhaswar said...


"I already pointed out to you that the AKG is not a CM- it has not even been designated as such- unless you have a better idea of what it is than CASIC then that's another case. Perhaps you don't understand that picking up a BM air-frame with a solid fueled engine is NOT the way to build a CM. Please look up the performance parameters for a solid-fuel rocket motor- otherwise this will turn into an exercise in futility. The AKG is running on a pulsed rocket motor or at least one that can be throttled and its tactical range and small warhead discount the need for a pure ballistic trajectory and un-powered re-entry.

On point look up the 9K720 Iskander which follows a relatively flat trajectory- i.e. not a purely ballistic one, doesn't leave the atmosphere, is powered into a 90 degree dive on its target at low altitude and is still firmly categorized as a TBM.

In fact the closest counterpart of the AKG is the AS-16 Kickback which has a speed in excess of mach 4.5 and terminal speeds reaching mach 5, a solid fuel rocket for propulsion, is an air launched article and has a range of 300km. In fact its flight path is EXACTLY the same as that of the AKG. It is firmly classified as an air to surface missile and NOT as a Cruise Missile- so unless GRAU got the designation wrong too then your point is rendered invalid. A ballistic trajectory is followed not because someone is obsessive about sticking to semantically accurate applications of the term but for the reason of function and necessity- an air launched variant on the other hand does not require to follow a ballistic trajectory nor will it be a CM either though.

Thank you for taking out your obviously valuable time from your busy schedule.

sanjay said...

sir can you provide some insight on the development of rustom-h & rustom-m

Anonymous said...

Prasunda, if Caesar is a better system than SH1? If India has any plan to procure smart ammo like excalibur , smart-155 etc.? Thanks, Regards, UJJWAL

Sangos said...

The credible evidence of UFOs on the Chinese side of the LAC is clear indication that they have nukes dumped in underground tunnels on location. These UFOs are either of USA/Russian/Alien origin and are robotic nuke probes with built in AI and anti gravity propulsion.

sasi said...

Prasun da,
1.)when will be clgm inducted?
2.)how many jagurs will be upgraded?
3.)what is going on with sitara and emb-awacs?
4.)does Daksh fit navy's recent rfi role?
5.)is drdo developing man portable NAG and trajectory corrected 155mm shell?
Thank u,

Tejas said...

Sir, Will the mk2 prototype be avialable for ground runs and tests early next yera, perform its first test flight by the middle of next year .
ADA can ask Ge aeroengines to redesign a wedge shaped airintake for tejas.The current circular ones have some perfromsnce related deficiencies.

Is the radome related issue on tejas mk 1 now in the process of being solved ? Does IAF still wants 500 kg LGB on it. Wasnt Tejas having problems with a 1000lber which requires some changes in the fbw sytem and flight control computer for it to be mitigated.
What connection does low observablity have with aircrafts built with composites? Carbon based composites have a low dielectric permittivity and they absorb some of the emissions. Is ther anything more to it .

It will take some time for Drdo to develope GPS guided shells. What will meet the immediate opeartional requirements of our armed forces. Krasnopol stocks have reached the end of their shelf lives. What about smart rounds dispensing SFM ?Isnt army interested in them .
Projectile loader assiters have the advantage of putting in 3 rounds in under 15 secs .It also reduces the crew count by one.

With the various performance deficiencies in the homegrown heavyweight torpedo varunsatra and the sonar complexes HUMSA-NG, what heavyweight torp and sonar complex had been selected for the Kolkata class in place of the above mentioned ones. Arent this class having ULF towed array as standard fit. Mod could have cleared the proposal for building 6 of them instead of just 3.

Is there any news on the second ttsl expansion and overhaul cum upgardation of the entire line of kilo class ssk of our Navy.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To R S SWAMY: 1) The CAPFs are interested in procuring the DAKSH ROV. 2) No. 3) Not aware of any. 4) TTP. Motive was to degrade the PAF’s warfighting capabilities. 5) All this is happening because the migrant labourers have very easy access to pornographic movies that are easily available for uploading on cellphones & are openly sold at places like Nehru Market. One cannot control the inflow of migrant labourers since this is a supply-and-demand issue.

To LURKER: Who said anything about PHALCONs going to Ladakh? Where did that come from? If one believes that human beings from Earth are the only form of intelligent life prevailing within the Milky Way galaxy, then that is a pretty arrogant attitude, to say the very least.

To SUBIR: 1) Any OEM will always prefer proven products that have already been inducted for service. Clearly the AGM does not fit that bill. Archer cannot fit inside any C-130 & its high degree of automation is ill-suited for Indian operating conditions, since it was developed for use by Scandinavian countries. Had it been that good then the Saudis would clearly have opted for it, since money is no problem for the Saudis. 2) Those who are claiming that the HEMRL-developed BMCS will be subjected to user-trials don’t know a damn about the subject-matter. My photos clearly show them being series-produced by the Delhi-based private company & rules/regulations clearly state that such products cannot be series-produced by anyone in India on an industrial-scale unless & until they have been certified for use by the end-user. 3) Matters in India proceed on a war-footing only in times of war, not during peacetime. Just look at the progress of the Nalanda-based OFB facility: it was approved more than a decade ago & it still has not gone on-line. 4) That report will be uploaded later. 5) Once again you’re oversimplifying the issue: there’s no such ATGM that can do-it-all. Different ATGMs exist for different purposes. 6) User-trials of only aerostats were conducted & no on-board radars were subjected to any trials. 7) Only the cockpit avionics & instrumentation were upgraded. 8) Tu-142M is no longer in production anywhere & with every passing year it is getting more expensive to maintain it in airworthy/serviceable condition & therefore it is far better to retire them & acquire more P-8Is.

To ANSHUMAN CHAKRAVORTY: No ordnance is carried by the hardpoints beneath the Rafale’s air-intakes. Those hardpoints can carry only LDPs or ELINT pods. LOROP pod & SAR pod are carried under the belly.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: 1) It is quite evident that blokes like him have an ulterior motive & vested interest in spreading disinformation. 2) AoA has always been a non-issue. The core issue has always been validation of the aircraft’s flight-control logic & its application by the DFCC. 3) Every sea-skimming ASCM always has to pop-up to lock-on to its target & that’s the time a shipborne radar or shipborne ELINT sensor succeeds in locating such an ASCM. For AEW radars & airborne ELINT sensors such ASCMs are even easier to locate & track. 4) CM-400AKG is indeed a supersonic cruise missile but not the sea-skimming type nor is it of the long-range type. Such missiles can only penetrate an Indian Navy CBG’s layered air-defences if fired in a salvo of not less than eight, i.e. requiring eight JF-17s to launch such missiles simultaneously—something impossible to achieve since the Ka-31 will detect such an aircraft formation long before the JF-17s can even enter the weapons launch envelope.

To SANJAY: Nothing significant to report as of now. Rustom-1 MALE-UAV is still undergoing field-trials over varied types of terrain & at varied altitudes. Rustom-2’s prototype has yet to be rolled-out.

To UJJWAL: Caesar is definitely superior to the SH-1. Smart 155mm projectiles developed by DIEHL of Germany, CelsiusTech, Rockwell/Collins, Raytheon & Nexter Systems have already been promoted & were shown as exhibits during DEFEXPO 2012.

To SASI: 1) CLGM’s user-trials are due next month. 2) 86 to DARIN-3 standard & 120 will be re-engined. 3) EMB-145I’s status was explained by me in the last comment on the previous thread. 4) Yes. 5) No.

To TEJAS: First Tejas Mk2 LSP-1 for IAF will be available for flight-tests in 2016. Firing 3 rounds in 15 seconds is very good for marketing but very bad for barrel life. That’s why the IA wants the MGS to fire no more than 150 rounds over a six-hour period. For P-15A DDGs the HUMSA-NG suite is on-board but an imported very low-frequency active/passive towed-array sonar will be used (probably the LFATS) as will a very low-frequency dunking sonar (HELRAS). As for heavyweight torpedoes (both ship-launched & submarine-launched), the SeaHake from Atlas Elektronik will be procured.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

An excellent talk-show that was broadcast yesterday concerning the river-waters issue between India & Pakistan:

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.How many Milan 2T were cleared for procurment? Is it the extended range Milan 2t having around 4 km range.

2.DAC cleared the purchase of 2 aerostat mounted radars for keeping an eye deep into hostile territory. What were these radars ?

3.The Rs 300 crore allocation to IAC-1 was it to make up for project cost overruns due to fall of rupee or to fasten things up a bit with IAC-1 .

4.Is DGQA interested in SMART, BONUS, EXcalibre for its existing Bofrs,the upgunned ones and those to be purchased the field arty modernisation program .

5.Why cant all the 120 Jaguars be upgraded DARIN-3 standards instead of the 86.

6.Will the rset of the re-eengined IS make use of the EL/M-20600 RTP for pinpoint strikes with PGM .

7. With Invar the T-90 can engage targets as long as 5-6 km well outside the engagement and acquistion range og other MBTs, ATGMs. Invar helps keep the T-90 safe from retaliatory fire. Invar enable Bhisma to outgun and outreach other adversaries on the battlefield. Was this the one of thne primary reasons behind aquistion of 25000+ Invars .

8. To LURKER. EL/M-2084 or Arurdhra is a ground based MPR employsing aesa arrays. Its available in 3 distinct variants and is used for 3d surbvellience of airspace, detection of low RCS and low flying terrain hugging LACM both subsonic and supersoinc, as an engagement radar for various sam systems and also a WLR out to 100 km depending on variant. PHALCON is EL.M-2075 .

NEEL said...


Caesar Vs Nora-B52K1.Which is the best and why?

Which is the best tracked howitzer according to you----
K9 Thunder(Larsen & Toubro /with South Korea's Samsung Techwin) Vs 2S19M1 MSTA-S 155mm 52cal (Rosoboronexport) Vs Zuzana turret fitted on Arjun chassis (BEML).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) Less than 5,000 Milan-2Ts were ordered. Milan-2T has tandem warhead & range is same as Milan-2. 2) EL/M-2083 radars. 3) The latter. 4) Not DGQA, but IA. DGQA never decides what to procure. 5) It will be done in successive tranches. 6) No. 7) Invar is an anti-helicopter projectile.

To NEEL: Caesar is far better than NORA-B52K1, no doubt about it & that’s why the former has been more successful in the export market than any other MGS. Tracked SPHs are not reqd anymore since truck-mounted MGS have far superior mobility characteristics nowadays over all types of terrain & are also far more cheaper than tracked SPHs. In my view, MGS can also easily replace towed 155mm howitzers & their tow-trucks & therefore the Indian Army will be well advised to abandon the search for new-design 155mm/52-calibre towed howitzers and instead standardise on the MGS by procuring no less than 2,750 Caesar-type MGS, since 145 towed/heliborne LW-155s & 114 towed 155X45 howitzers are to be acquired along with the upgunned M-46 155mm/45-cal towed howitzers. Consequently, development of ATAGS-type howitzers by the DRDO is a sheer waste of time, effort & taxpayer’s money & instead the DRDO should focus its R & D efforts on developing along with L & T a shipborne 155mm/52-cal naval artillery gun variant of the Caesar.

NEEL said...


YES, a shipborne 155mm/52-cal naval artillery gun variant of the Caesar would be a great thing.

What is the status of Truck-mounted version of upgunned M-46 155mm/45-cal developed by Bharat-forge.

Among the - CV-90,Ascod Pizarro,Dardo,Bionix,BMP-3,Puma,K-21,Warrior,M2 Bradley....Which ICV Could be best suited for Indian Army.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.Total orders for Milan-2T doesnt exceed 5000 or orders for this time ?

2.Is the deal for 3rd gen ATGM which is now being visciously among Spike and javelin progressing. When can the deal expected to be concluded. Is RM still insisting on ToT tranfer for building them here in India. Does it have any advantages ? BDL wasnt able to come up with an improved tandem warhead variant of Milan 2 after having being produced for so many years.

3.Eventually will all the 120 Jaguar IS be going to get the EL/M-2032 mmr for strike operations.

4.Is the Mild-f selected for Jag darin upgrade along with some of internal rf jammer like ELT-568.

5.During Firepower 2013 seminar you told IA had great plans with 45 call desi Bofors . What suddenly occured to them that they now want a foreign OEM 52 cal towed artillery piece.

6.What forced Mod to quickly clear the acquistion of 2 EL/M-2083 Airstar when a competition to that effect is in progress. Are any high level developements taking place in our immediate neighbourhoos that requires a constant vigil .

7.Has IA purchased any light weight 3rd gen ATGM for its special forces and airborne forces .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To NEEL: Kalyani Group/Bharat Forge isn’t developing any truck-mounted MGS. The upgunned M-46 from this firm will be a towed 155mm/45-cal howitzer. The Indian Army wants a tracked infantry carrier, not a wheeled one & if the idea is to go for some interim solution, then the BMPV-64 from Ukraine is a more viable option, since it has some commonality with the BMP-2 ICV & therefore is easier to licence-build at OFB’s Medak facility. The second-most viable interim ICV option of imported origin will be the BMP-3. A competitive evaluation of BMPV-64 & BMP-3 will undoubtedly produce some interesting results. Above all this, however, the best ICV option that will operate in tandem with MBTs like Arjun & T-90S will undoubtedly be a BMPT Terminator-type vehicle, which can easily be developed by the DRDO by utilising existing T-72M1 hulls & up-armouring them with ceramics-based add-on armour panels & equipping them with a new-design turret housing twin 30mm cannons, a 30mm remotely-operated automatic grenade launcher, up to eight laser-guided SAMHO-type missiles (+ 10 internal reloads) or even Nag ATGMs, & a panoramic 360-degree day/night sight of the type already developed by IRDE for the T-90S upgrade programme. T-72M1 hulls are available in large numbers in-country as are all the other components I have mentioned above, & up to 800 such ICVs can be supplied fairly quickly over a 5-year period by a private-sector company like L & T in cooperation with OFB. In the future battlefield, the MBTs will always be have to be accompanied by such heavily armoured/armed ICVs following 200 metres behind that will benefit from superior situational awareness & flank protection provided via the BMS by LUHs & Rudra helicopter-gunships flying 1km ahead, & following the ICVs about 800 metres behind will be the tracked & wheeled battle-taxis.

To SUBIR: 1) That’s right, as this is only an interim solution. 2) There’s no fixed timeline now for procuring such imported ATGMs. BDL was never created for conducting R & D on ATGMs. That’s the DRDO’s job. BDL is only the producer of ATGMs. 3) Yes. 4) Yes. 5) The ‘great plans’ call for procuring only 114 units of 155X45 towed howitzers as of now & in future only an additional 390 units may be ordered to keep the GCF happy. The IA always had accorded priority to procuring 155mm/52-cal howitzers since the late 1990s & presently no industrial player in India has the capability to produce 155mm/52-cal barrels. 6) Competition was in progress for procuring new aerostats. The two EL/M-2083s were acquired in the previous decade itself & one of them was later seriously damaged. 7) The Javelin ATGM will be procured for this reqmt.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1. Previously orders were placed for 2100 Milan 2T, 25000+ Invars, 20000 Konkurs M. If these are nly for meeting interim requirments whats the original requirements.

2.Already 2 EL/M-2083 Airstars were in op for many years now. They were deployed in Kashmir for monitoring missile launches. Wont the recnt DAC approval for 2 more aerostats bring the total no to 4 Airstars ??

3.What are the agendas of French defense minister's visit to India ?Will it be remove the various roadblocks in rafale deal and signing of contracts of maitri SRSAM and Barracuda SSN ?

4.Why cant Drdo uparmour all T-72 and T-90 with add on ceramic and heavy ballistic rubber based add on armour. T-90 sides are seriously underprotected.

Bhaswar said...

VMT for the answers Prasun Sir.

It is distasteful to speak ill of another- from my side at least- since I know nothing much of the field- but Ajai Shukla Ji did come off as having an ulterior motive behind his articles- specially those regarding procuring F-35s.

Sir you had stated that the Kolkata class DDG would be commissioned by now- yet we have heard nothing on that front.

Also there is no news of the Arihant, did its reactor go critical or not? Has it started its sea trials?

Are both projects facing further delays again?

All we get to see of the Kamorta class vessels are also unfinished ships at some yard or another.

The naval development seems to have ground to a complete halt.

Also you had opined that the INS Vishal would end up as a nuclear powered carrier- there hasn't been any confirmation or news on that. Have we even started the development of the 180MW reactor. If not when shall we see movement on that front?

Akhil Suri said...

Hi Prasun ,

In Hyderabad I see that there are chances that Telangana can become a reality .

What are the chances of Gorkhaland becoming a separate state and will this lead to large scale violence between Gorkhas & Nepalis ?


Akhil Suri said...

Sorry , I meant to say

will this lead to large scale violence between Gorkhas & Bengalis ?

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun...

what is your opinion on the weapon locating radar orders that have been delayed somewhat.
what is the status of the LRSAM and MRSAM programmes. what could be the role of the Indian consortium of DRDO and BEL in this programme.
do you feel that the latest changes in the defence procurement policy and defence FDI will materially impact the position of BEL as a supplier to the Indian armed forces.

Pankaj said...

Dear Sir

There is a news coming (though right now its only ONE source but nevertheless BAD for India )

It is about Pakis getting M 270 MBRL
From USA ie The Stock of weapons which will be left after 2014

Here is the Source

It also mentions that there are some 150 pieces of M 270 which are lying in Afghanistan which can be given to The Pakis.

Please give your views on this

If it happens then it will be big boost for Pakis Firepower against India

NEEL said...


BMPT or Terminator is a superior one.It is a tank-support vehicle designed for urban war.Why DRDO CAN'T MAKE BMPT like vehicle or a simple ICV? There are available T-72 or T-55 tank hull but DRDO fail to produce a reliable turret.WHY? They make MBT but can't make ICV,WHY?

In between BMPV-64 & BMP-3,the BMP3 is my choice.Because it has great fire power,protection,good amphibious capability,Low weight,variants like 2S31 Vena 120-mm mortar system,anti-tank missile carrier,BMP-3K command vehicle,BMP-3F marine version etc.
The BMP-3 is also combat proven because it successfully took part in the Chechen War.

In between BMPV-64 & BMP-3,which is the best according to you? and why?

Sayan said...

Sir, How can Germany still be so overtly optimistic about winning back the MMRCA deal.

Were any agreements made and new defense deals signed during French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian 's vist. Any breakthroughs or good news or progress in Rafale negotiations ? Instead of acquiring Rafales wont acquiring Su35BM on a one on one basis and equipped with PAK-FA avionics like aesa radar, new gen irst be better. The money saved in the deal can be spent on acquiring PAK-FA which might enter production from 2015 and operational service in 2016.Su-30 is already being license manufactured and no additional capital will be required for setting up a greenfield production line.

And even if the Rafale deal is likely to go through why is it still being delayed ?

Can you pls outline the scope of IN Seaking upgrade ? What are the new goodies going on board like radar, dipping sonar,ashm ?

Why was the Agni-5 and PDV launch postponed from July to August. The PDV launch was to have taken place last December. Again in September it will be postponed to December and finally to '14.

And is the new aerostat radars , 2 in no recently approved by DAC for acquisition the EL/M-2083 ? There isnt Elta brochure on the airstar . Will the newly acquired ones be China specific. Dosent IA already have two elm-2083 airstars ?

I cant just find any ans to this. UIncase of any ballistic missile lauches there are press releases and MoD release the pics. Whenever there is test firing if Prthvi or Agni-1 by SFC there are press releases from MoD. Prthvi-3 has been extensively tested out, has undergone flight certification and is ready for induction. Why wasnt there any press reports of any Prthvi-3 launches ?

Ni8 Dweller said...

Hi Prasun Da,

In the below news article regarding Ladakh UFO sighting ''

It states that 'The astronomers have concluded that the object observed from Point 4715 is Jupiter as the observations coincide with the planet’s diurnal motion and the apparent motion of the object due to the rotation of the Earth.

The description of the second unidentified object that appeared early in the morning suggests that it is Venus, which is currently moving behind the Sun and will in the coming months appear as an evening object.

The IIAP team said stars and planets over the horizon in Ladakh appear very bright because of increased atmospheric transparency at the high altitude and both Jupiter and Venus at the time were the brightest planets in the sky.

The astronomers also clarified that objects that rise in the east may appear to be moving across the LAC and approaching the Indian side.'

So did we jump the gun here by calling the celestial body being UFO??

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) Original reqmt was for the SAMHO & since it wasnlt available on time the Milan-2T had to be acquired. Konkurs-M is being acquired to replace the earlier Konkurs. 2) No. The DAC’s approval means now RFIs will be released & after another 18 months the RFPs will be released. The radars will arrive after only four years. Airstar is quite old & today EL/M-2084 MPRs ir even EL/M-2282s can be carried by aerostats. 3) How can Rafale M-MRCA deal’s roadblocks be removed by France when it is India that is responsible for the sliding value of the Rupee? 4) T-72’s design as a medium battle tank stood discredited & exposed after OP Desert Storm in 1991 & it’s no use upgrading it. T-90S does not require any further up-armouring except for installation of APS.

To BHASWAR: That guy you mentioned is clearly off his rocker, for sure. Wait till next month as I had stated several times before for more news on INS Kolkata’s commissioning status. Arihant’s PWR has gone critical but HATs will take at least 8 months to complete. P-28 ASW corvettes are all being fabricated by GRSE at Kolkata & not in any other shipyard. I had already explained a few months ago that the problem is with the gearboxes: Kirloskar failed to supply them & consequently they had to be ordered from RENK. Their arrival is still awaited. As for INS Vishaal’s PWR, I have already stated that this is a non-negotiable item & therefore it has to be developed indigenously. So, wait for the DAE to make some announcement on this.

To AKHIL SURI: For strategic reasons, I don’t see the Gorkhaland option being exercised for now.

To Anon@6.03PM: The Swathi WLR is ready for delivery & all that remains is the ordering of new-build BEML/TATRA TELs.

To PANKAJ: That is pure speculation & utter hogwash, since the Pakistan Army already has CPMIEC-delivered A100E MBRLs that have a far longer range than the M270 MLRS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To NEEL: BMPT-type ICVs are more suited for engaging well dug-in infantry forces that are proficient in combined arms tactics over all types of terrain. In India’s case, there is no scope for engaging in FIBUA or MOUT & the IA will prefer to keep the ground conflicts limited to rural terrain & the deserts. BMPV-64 too can be equipped with different turret configurations, including those containing 120mm breech-loading mortars. What’s reqd most now is the acquisition of missiles (perhaps versions of the Nag) armed with thermobaric & APAM warheads for ICVs like the BMPT & BMPV-64 & for the LUH, since hostile MBTs will engaged directly by the IA’s MBTs like Arjun & by Rudra helicopter-gunships.

To SAYAN: No new deals were inked during the French Defence Minister’s visit. Russia is not interested at all in equipping the Su-35 with any new avionics suite pf the type now being developed for the T-50 PAK-FA. There’s no spare money available this fiscal year to be allocated for even the first 18 Rafales. Prithvi-3 has been test-fired since 2005 onwards but its cannister-encased version has not yet been certified for operational deployment & therefore it is not yet ready for service induction.

To Ni8DWELLER: Wow! What a scientific way of deriving empirical conclusions indeed!!! IIAP’s astronomers transmitting instructions to IA personnel manning high-altitude forward observation posts on how to use theodalites & take measurements in azimuth & elevation & then receiving the data & pronouncing the verdict! What happened to field-trips to get a first-hand view of what’s been going on??? Is this how scientific analysis is nowadays being carried out in India? Since 2004 there have been several thousands of photos taken of clusters of four & up to 16 luminous airborne objects that are engaging in intelligent manoeuvring in flight & even humanoids have been photographed by scientific expeditions. Certainly 4 or 16 manoeuvring luminous objects in front of multiple eye-witnesses cannot be classified as two celestial objects (Venus & Jupiter) by any stretch of the imagination, rest assured.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

An excellent talk-show in which all the right questions were asked, but all the wrong answers were given by the panelists:

Bhaswar said...

Sir if the Arihant PWR has gone critical then how come we haven't heard ANYTHING at all about it? Not even a squeak aside from the Honorable RM's statements regarding the same from two months back where he had claimed that the Arihant reactor would soon go critical- after that everything has been silent on that front.

So then the Kolkata class DDG will be commissioned next month?

What do you think will be the result of the GSLV test this time- shall we succeed this time around?

Sir while your expert opinion the matter is most valid, there seems to be NO move WHATSOEVER on the MOD's part to ensure that the INS Vishal shall be a nuclear powered carrier. DAE hasn't even started designing the reactor let alone actually get down to building it. Is there any concrete possibility that such a decision will be taken this year?

According to the Albright report India had 4000 Kg plus of unsafeguarded fissile material in 1991 which was stated to be enough for a thousand warheads- how accurate was that estimate? What do you estimate the current reserves of the same to be?

NEEL said...


Like the BMPV-64 , similar machines are worked out on a base Т- 55 and Т- 72 with the Ukrainian engine of 5TDFM.
On the base of platform it is possible to create MLRS to 220-240 мм., heavy mortar to 240-мм.,Air defence missile & artillery platform,MGS 155-мм 39 or 45 caliber howitzer artillery.

Is there a wheeled version of this BMPV-64 ?

Littlemaster said...


EADS has decided to lower the price of Typhoon .Many countries are ordering them. This will reduce the unit price. Will in any case Mod will look to Typhoon if the deal falls through or there arefurther negotiations problems like the accountability of the rest of 108 rafales produced in country.
How can Rm clear various purchases wen it hasnt got the funds for payment of 1st 18 acs?

When carrying 7 Kepd 350 at the expense of a lower fuel load doesnt Rafale carry any AAM ?

Jean Ives Le Drian has proclaimed rafale to be as good as a 5th gen aircraft. Any hard reasons behind this.
Many people tend to say that Rfale though more sophisticated can be ousted in combat or BVR duel by Su35, J-11,J14 and Typhoon.They have the opinion that all of them outranges rafale in terms of radar range and enables them to hgave a more clearer picture of the battlefield in absence of awacs. What has Rafale in its favour to neutralise such advantages.

Has Thales engineers able to develope LPI modes for all air to air and air to ground modes and has they yet succesfully interlaced Gmtri and Gmtt with long range sar? You have once said that for the omnimode m=functioning iof an aesa lots of power are required and for that many cells of NiCad batteries onboard the ac is required. Does Rafale have them ?

Dhruv said...

Dear Bhavsar,

The articels below are self-explanatory and in public domain. The Navy or MOD does not need to carry out any more publicity for a project whiach is anyway supposed to be confidential

Vikram Guha said...


I do not have indepth idea about Gorkhaland , but my own two cents is Bengalis have absolutely no problem in handing over their territory to foreigners . That's why south bengal has been taken over by Muslims from Bangladesh & North Bengal by Nepalis.

Look at Punjab . Punjabis love their state , Assamese love their state , Nagas love their state, Maharasthtrians love their state. Bengalis don't . That's why we don't fight for Bengal . Sikkim has a majority Nepali population now & I recon Gorkhaland will eventually become a part of Sikkim .


DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun , Defense News is reporting that India placing a new order for more Apache Helos .

Why this sudden need for more Apaches?

What role will the Rudra play when the Apache is already been purchased?

KSK said...

Hi Prasun,
Any news from the Red Flag Exercises concluded yesterday?
Will be good to know how IAF utilized the Phalcon.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1. Why isnt anyone in IA interested in 3rd gen ATGM employing fire and forget principle? Why still stick to SACLOS guidance with SAMHO ?

2.Cant in any way the interval between RFI and RFP issuance be shortened ? 18 months is too long a time. When Elta's radar will be acquired for aerostat application why not resort to a direct gov to gov deal.

3.France defense allocation has been cut down. Their various defense industires are in dire needs of exports.Dassault needs new orders to remain ina healthy condition and to prevent sacking of its employee. Dont you think Dassault will agree to the various ToT , workshares, and contractual hurdles which previously stood as major hurdles in the negotiation process in an effort to wrap the deal quickly.

4.Is there even the remote possibilty of signing off the deal by October ? IAF is in a desperate need for more fighter acs. ALready there are nly 34 squadrons operrationa;l from the previous 39.

5.Is there any progress in the long range S band radar competition in whioch Thales Raytheon,IAI and Selex Galileo were participating ?

6.Wont it will be beneficial if AMAP type addon composite armour slabs are added on the sides , upper and lower glacis and the back of turret of T-90.Amap-m type anti tank mine armour can also be bolted onto the underneath of the tank.
Isnt just 3 thin steel plateds too inadequate for protection of T-90 flanks?

7.What happened to APS of T-90 ? LEDS-150. Is it still struck in limbo .

8.Is IN in negotiations with Russia for phase 2 deep life upgrade and service life extension of the entire Kilo class SSK fleet?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: No country in the world makes publicity announcements on such matters. Wait & see what happens next month about INS Kolkata. INS Vishaal is still 10 years away from being launched & there’s plenty of time left for developing the PWR. 4 tonnes of unsafeguarded fissile materials includes all the spent fuel that India cannot reprocess after having used them at the US-supplied Tarapur power plant, as well as those fuel stocks meant for usage by DAE-developed fast-breeder reactors. The amount of processed weapons-grade plutonium out of those 4 tonnes in 1991 was less than 200kg.

To NEEL: Existing Indian Army T-55s can easily be converted for use as mechanical trench-diggers or even equipped with counter-mine flails or full-width mine-ploughs. The T-72M1’ hulls on the other hand can be modified to act as BMPT-like heavy ICVs & there still will be enough T-72M1 hulls available locally that can be modified by equipping them with, 70-tonne bridges (BLT-72), or counter-mine flails (CMF-72) or full-width mine-ploughs, or even AMOS turrets equipped with dual 120mm breech-loading mortars. There’s no available wheeled version of BMPV-64.

To LITTLEMASTER: If that is indeed the case then why are others not rushing to procure the EF-2000? With seven KEPD-350s the Rafale can carry two Mica-IR AAMs. In BVR air combat, what matters most is superior tactics & superior sensor-fusion technologies, & not just longer-range radars. All AESA-MMRs have LPI modes.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: Conversely, I could well argue that the Punjabis love their state so much that they’re always the very first to make a beeline for Europe & North America in search of greener pastures! Likewise, only those Assamese tribals like the Bodos that have been encouraged to live settled-down lives (by giving up their slash-n-burn ‘Jhum’ cultivation habits) have developed a new-found love for their lands. Today you will find Hyderabad stuffed with Oriyas & Bengalis working as hospitality staff in the hotels, while WB is today flooded with migrant workers from Jharkhand. Bottomline: a person can begin to love his/her state only AFTER the state makes it worthwhile for them to live in & prosper. Just look at the amount of wrkers from the North East that are now working in Maharashtra, Karnataka & Delhi as proof of what I believe to be the factual situation.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: What new order? Even the first order has not yet been placed. Only the Apache’s selection from the competitive bidding process has been announced to date. Contract signature even for the first order is quite some distance away. Rudra is a helicopter-gunship & not a dedicated attack helicopter, i.e. the Rudra will act in tandem with mechanised & motorised infantry forces as part of a combined-arms team during the contact battles. The Apaches & Mi-35Ps on the other hand will penetrate up to 40km deep inside enemy territory to engage hostile mechanised & armoured forces in the presence of friendly air cover.

To KSK: RED FLAG 13-4 for July 15-26, 2013 is cancelled, according to

To SUBIR: 1) Why then do you think the IA wants the Nag & Javelin? 2) Of course it can, provided there’s enough money available. 3) Such companies have enough export orders for producing spares for all their existing products that have already been sold. No one is so desperate. Furthermore, the hurdles are all from the Indian side & concern Indian vendors that are reqd to comply with security vetting guidelines of the Union MHA. There’s nothing that Dassault can do about this. The delays are therefore caused from the Indian side & only India can find solutions for them, & not Dassault. Same applies to the Scorpene SSK programme as well. One must get rid of this mentality about always blaming foreigners on such issues & thinking that Indians can do no wrong. 4) Not before March 2014. 34 squadrons are more than enough to take care of both western & northern fronts, since India’s neighbours aren’t functioning at optimum levels either. 5) No. 6) T-90S armour-packaging as it now exists is very good against its adversaries. Only APS needs to be fitted. 7) No final decision as yet. 8) Yes.

Abhishek Dhar said...

1]Sir is this interview reflecting reality or propaganda?
Who is the strongest contender for our towed artillery deal atm?

3]What defence deals can we hope to see inked in the remainder of 2013?


NEEL said...


Is the AMOS dual 120mm breech-loading mortars system better than 120-mm breach loaded gun/mortar PLL05 of China? Why they call gun-mortar? Is gun-mortar is more powerful than mortar?

Is The TOS-1A heavy flamethrower with thermobaric warhead system is suitable for indian army? There is any plan to acquire this type of heavy flamethrower system which give direct fire support to advancing infantry and main battle tanks.

Type 032 QING Class Diesel-Electric Ballistic Missile Submarine is the worlds largest diesel electric submarine made by China.This is a new thing.Please give some detail about the Type 032 QING Class Diesel-Electric Ballistic Missile Submarine.

Pierre Zorin said...

Prasun: Just stumbled upon footages of US Warthog strikes on the Taliban. Is this plane only meant for the USAF? The USAF will fly this till 2026 so couldn't the IAF or AAC benefit from such platform IF that was available?

Anand said...

Hi Prasun,

Have you uploaded any pics of Prithvi-3 till date in any of your threads?If not can you please do so.



Littlemaster said...

Sir, So many countires have ordered the Typhoon. Recently Oman bought 12 Typhoon and Rsaf intends to buy another 72. Dassault hasnt been able to find yet one xport customer for its Rafale.

Longer range is definitely better. It creates a better picture of the sector of airspace infront. In today's world longer air to air radar range is even more necessary as 5th gen fighter are emerging, Vlo features are being introducted into newbuild 4th gen fighters and with the emergence of low rcs threats like UAV, alcm,lacm,ashm. Typhoon,F-15SE has a frontal RCS not greater than 1.5 sqm. Longer range helps to detect theVlo adversary better . ESM wont work effectively as all their RF emissions will be of the Lpi type. Higher peak power and power aperture product wont make the ac a glowing target for passive wide band homing sam simply because of frequeny agility of the aesa sensor. There has got to be something with Typhoon thats attracting so many customers.

How come Rafale carry 7 KEPD 350 along with 2 Mica? The weapons payload of Rafale is 9.5 t and this load exceeds 10 t.Will you be kind enough to post the various load out pictures of rafale you clicked in aero India 13.

What are the various customisations that IAF wants in its Rafales ? For take off with a good weapons payload from Leh or Jaisalmer, Rafales will be needing the 20000 lb thrust M88-3 but it seems IAF is content with the 17000lb M88-2. Will there be any customisations to the aesa ,fso-it and maws in our Rafales.

When can the series upgradation of the jag fleet begin ? DARIN 3 IS was supposed to fly this month.
What is the new agreement that is yet to be signed with the French Mod that gurantees Dassault will be able to fulfil all contractual obligations ?

If there are so much delays in negotiations nly God knows how much delay will there be in license producing the ac. Dassault still wants a bigger workshare for RIL.

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa ,

Completely agree with you .

Just that I am saying that if illegitimate demands like Gorkhaland would have been raised in Punjab , Maharashtra, Nagaland etc the local people would have fought such individuals/groups who make such claims .
Unfortunately , in Bengal we do not fight such individuals/groups who make such illegitimate claims.


Bhaswar said...

Sir, VMT for the replies.

If only the MOD was known for taking sagacious advise.

It would indeed be very good to see the DAE get to building the 180MW reactor. But given how the current crop of babus work one never knows.

I am still waiting to see whether they will see the merit in your idea of using the Tejas in the form of LIFT air crafts. That would most definitely aid in improving the quality of training imparted to our pilots. AND yet sir, you who are not in a position of power and do not enjoy the benefit of having an army of scientific and technical advisers around you can see that but not our decision makers.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.Isnt IA interested in Spike ATGM ? It offers 4 km range versus javelin's 2.5 bt have the same weight. Will IA get anything thru Javelin deal ?

2.Cant DRDO do away with the lteral thrusters of Nag and redesign it like other ATGMs. Lateral thrusters are required for SACLOS missiles nly.

3.Cant ATGM quad racks be used in Rudra instead of dual ones for Pars-3. It will increase the payload.

4. Theres an article doing its rounds in various defense forums . It says PLA has already occupied Indian territory in AP.
Is there any substance in it or pure hogwash ?

5. Was there such delays in the MHA vetting process during other license manufacturing programs like su licebnse production at HAL Ozhar.Is it a very big deal. What so much vetting. Afterall its nt a 5th gen ac and doesnt pack such high tech stuff .

6.Cant MHA employ more employees to fasten the vetting process,or retransfer govt employees from other departments. Most of the suppliers for Rafale are also participants in Su30 project. They have already been vetted once.

7.For defensive ops on bioth fronts more no of squadrons will be required. Around 42 maybe. The more the merrier.

8. Some weeks ago there were news reports that a competition was going on for supplying 100 tracked SPH. ??

9.Were IAF daily sorties hamphered by RM's recent move of cutting down aviation fuel supply by a hopping 20 percent ? And does PAF pilots fly a lot less than their Inian counterparts due to the high costs incurred .

1-.What happened to BMD pahse -2 and much hyped about Agni-5 launches ?

Anonymous said...


r u mentally sound?

u must b in ur 20s i guess

Pierre Zorin said...

Prasun another question on artillery which is my favourite weapon system! Guns like M-777 even though they are modernised still uses a lot of human involvement. In all footages I see at least 4 men - one carries and puts the shell in, one puts the charge bag in, one shoves it with not sure what that steel rod is called and one pulls the rope. Not to mention an officer has to say FIRE! Can there be no better system than pulling a rope trigger and manually loading the shell and charge bag? Surely some amount of automation is possible?

Subir said...

Sir, Good news finally.

HAT is almost 95 percent complete. INS Arihant will begin sea trials in mid August once the monsoon wanes down. Atleast thats the plan they say.

INS Vikramaditya has also succesfully completed the 1st phase of sea trials and attained 32 knots in breaod and wind conditions. Finally a relief of the Navy.

Anon- Yes i am in my early twentties.

Anonymous said...


As far as I know the type 32 is not the qing class but a submarine test platform for trialling experimental submarine launch weapons and sensors.

spanky's Blog said...

Hi Prasun,
VMT for your reply to my question in previous thread.
Again an excellent article from you. Very informative.A lot of thanks for this.
Btw its an excellent decision by you to start ur FDI JV in NE. That region desperately needs investment and job opportunities.
I really like ur following statement while giving answer to Subir " One must get rid of this mentality about always blaming foreigners on such issues & thinking that Indians can do no wrong" . I personally think this mentality has been the bane of India. this mentality has prevented us from decades to own up responsibility for things and take action and fix them. Inste4ad we have kept passing the buck to others and feel relieved. The root of most of the problem India suffers from today can be traced back to this mentality.

Anonymous said...

Prasunda, if selection of SLWH Pegasus would be better than M777? As M777 is a static system, short term movement in battlefield at war time is difficult,moreover, it is a very labour intensive system.On the other hand, pegasus is a semi automatic system,it has good tactical mobility, though it is slight heavier , it would not create much problem as India is procuring CH-47. Thanks, regards, UJJWAL

reddy said...

It was me who asked you whether you are mentally sound.
I don't want to hurt u by asking that.
The issue here is and the reason i come here, this blog is known for the quality of the analysis (people ask and get answers) it presents.
The enthusiasm you are showing is not good and often leads to "Information Fatigue" which leads to deteriorate this blog's quality.
we easily lost focus on a specific topic.
I know your young blood wanted to serve the mother land so immediately you/ everyone comes to defence side/sites, I ended in the same manner, but I found I can serve my mother land in many ways by excelling in my own field. we got people to do the defence jobs.
My request: Keep the quality and focus of this place.
Research on these words: Enthusiasm, Information Fatigue

Subir said...

@ Reddy. Thanks for the headsup. But i or for that any civilian cant get the answers to the questions i posted no matter ho much u surf the net or read various defense related articles. Our desi media is full of shit. They hardly post the correct info and are always very eager to cover the scams and scandals more. Most often they miss the woods for the trees. Like India today reporting INS Chakra can be used in war, Col Shukla saying F-35 is a better choice than rafale and is cheaper. Almost all desi news media and defense blogspots has yet to understand that 314 Su30 has already been ordered.They keep on saying 272. And no one has yet any idea among them that its Arjun mk1a that was unveiled some moths back and not mk2. Some are even saying that if teh August trials with Arjun mk1a goes well, IA will place the final orders. They dont have that much of common sense that one doesnt place orders for Arjun mk1a vectronics unless and until firm orders were placed for the tanks themselves. One cant just depend on these sites for their daily enlightment doese on matters of national defense.

Anonymous said...

FYI Each JF17 is able to carry at least 2 CM-400AKG. Its a plane with low rcs and in the hands of right pilots flying very low, it would not be easy for ka31 to detect it in time. what is the on station time for ka31? how many ka31 will be there? This missile adds to PN deterent if nothing else. You only need one missile to get through!!!

Arup said...

Sir ,

It seems there are good news for the Navy after a long period of time. With the sea trials of Arihant the submarine arm will get a boost. Although a tech demonstrator,its successfull completion of sea trials will bring the other Arihant classes one step closer to operational induction. As you have earlier said, HAT takes 8 months for completion, it must have kicked off in Dec,Nov last year. Will INS Arihant spend another eight months in sea trials . When will the 1st underwater dive and submerged operation along with weapons trials commence if everything falls smoothly into place .

Are there any minor changes in displacements , any improvements or enhancements in sonar , ipms in the follow on Arihant class ssgn over INS Arihant . From where did Navy source the ultra low frequency tas .ULF TAS isnt avilable from Russia and NPOL has failed to develope one.

If Navy deploys Brahmos TELs in Andaman and Nicobar Islands, wont thy require a layered Sam network.They tend to become more of a liability than an asset. They will be very high on a potential adversaries list as those batteries will be on overwatch over the Malacca strait , gateway to Indian ocean. Brahmos TEL will be requiring LRSAM cover along with Spyder and some last ditch TEL. Wont it be better to have Brahmos armed Arihants on patrols along these entire region.They will be less vulnerable to attacks.

Brahmos armed Arihants can also be India's 911 conventional strike force. With nuclear propuslion they can reach virtually anywhere and most importantly along China's coastline and strike critical targets.A sort of expeditionary strike capability .

In the upgrades of SeaKing mk42b and c , which dipping sonar was shortlisted among HELRAS DS-100 from L-3 , Thales raytheon FLASH .
Is the IAI EL/M-2022H(A3 still being favored as the surface search and volume scan radar along with an Elta optronic chin turrets . Were any ashm for these upgraded helicopters and the soon to be purchased MRH shortlisted .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABHISHEK DHAR: 1) The interview is fairly objective. 2) Towed 155mm/52-cal artillery is still a long way away. 3) The LW-155 heliborne 155mm/39-cal artillery system & Rafale M-MRCA.

To NEEL: PLL-05 has only a single barrel whereas AMOS has two barrels & therefore the latter can pump out more firepower than the PLL-05. Gun-mortar is the same as breech-loading mortar. TOS-1A was developed specifically for flattening urbanised areas like Grozny. The IA has no reqmt for such weapons since the IA is not likely to raise any urbanised areas to the ground. An AIP-powered version of Type 032 Qing-class SSK armed with Babur cruise missiles is destined for Pakistan Navy, which will acquire four of them.

To PIERRE ZORIN: Yup. The A-10A Warthog has not yet been exported to anyone else so far. Its Russian counterpart is the Su-25. Such platforms are good for bursting dug-in infantry forces as well as armoured vehicles. But attack helicopters like Mi-35P & AH-64D Apache too can perform such tasks. The steel rod is the rammer, since the LW-155 does not have an automated flick-rammer. Automation always leads to adding more weight & therefore there has to be a middle-ground somewhere. That’s what is known as design optimisation

To ANAND: Will do so in future.

To LITTLEMASTER: Only those countries that have had a longstanding policy of outsourcing all their product-support reqmts to BAE Systems & the RAF will naturally opt for the EF-2000’s Typhoon variant. In terms of RCS what matters is not just frontal RCS, but all-aspect RCS since the enemy will not always be staring you at the face from the front. Delays in contract negotiations for the Rafale are all due to the Indian Union MHA’s security guidelines & the Union MoF’s insistence on vendor-vetting procedures prior to contract signature.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Changing demographics will always being about the emergence of more states in future. Chattisgarh was created out of areas ceded by Maharashtra. Punjab till this day has to share Chandigarh as its state capital with Haryana. Formation of Jharkhand out of Bihar hasn’t brought about any positive changes to the tribals of Jharkhand. Similarly, creation of Uttarakhand from Himachal Pradesh hasn’t improved the lives of either state.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) How many types of missiles make up the Spike family? 4km-range applies to helicopter-launched & UAV-launched Spike-ER. Javelin’s equivalent is the mini-Spike. What more does the IA want through the Javelin deal apart from just owning & operating such weapons? 2) Of course it can be done but this will involve a total redesign of the missile-body. 3) Not for Rudra, but for the LCH. 4) That’s true. Sumdorong Chu for instance was never vacated by the PLA. 5) Such vetting procedures are mandated by the foreign OEMs, & beggars can’t be choosers. 6) That won’t simplify the vetting process at all. Due process always take time to comply with. 7) More squadrons does not translate into more aircraft. 8) Utter rubbish. 9) Of course.

To Anon/UJJWAL@5.25PM: LW-155’s tactical mobility characteristics are almost the same as that of the FH-77B & pose no penalties at all. LW-155 will be sited ONLY along mountainous terrain along reverse slopes & therefore will be very difficult to target by hostile counter-artillery bombardment. LW-155s will therefore never be used for plains warfare. As for the Pegasus, what one has to ask are these: is a city-state like Singapore capable of producing all components of the Pegasus in-country? Does it possess all the reqd metallurgical, forging & auto frettaging expertise in-country & if not, from where are these outsourced? Are these being outsourced from China? Why hasn’t the Pegasus to date not succeeded in scoring notable successes in the export market to date?

To Anon@8.58PM: Any JF-17 with two CM-400AKGs will not have low-RCS in any aspect, rest assured. Furthermore, for launching such ASMs, the launch-aircraft will have to attain a steady cruise altitude of 20,000 feet at the very least. At least one Ka-31 will be airborne at all times during a CBG’s operational tasking that’s under implementation. Even if eight CM-400AKGs are launched in quick salvoes, the CBG’s escorts, which will include at least 4 Project 15A/15B-type DDGs armed with Barak-2 LR-SAMs, will easily be able to intercept the 8 CM-400AKGs. Remember, the Russians & Chinese have calculated that it takes no less than 24 Kh-41 Zubr/3M-80E Moskit-type supersonic ASMs to meaningfully overwhelm the CIWS systems of the US Navy CBG. Under such a scheme, the PAF will have to get 12 JF-17s armed with 24 CM-400AKGs airborne—by no means a small formation that can stay undetected even from a warship’s air-search radar.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SPANKY’s BLOG/SWAROP: VMT indeed. Passing the buck & engaging in blame-games has regrettably become a national pastime. One instead needs to adhere to the adage of ‘fix the problem, not the blame’.

By the way, do watch this very interesting programme on how the minds of Albert Einstein & Srinavasa Ramanujan functioned:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARUP: S-2, S-3 & S-4 SSBNs will all have identical equipment on-board. Bow-mounted sonar is the USHUS mid-frequency system. Any layered SAM network won’t be just for BrahMos-1s but for the entire A & N island-chain. S-2, S-3 & S-4s used as SSGNs & armed with BrahMos-1 will be an effective deterrent against hostile CBGs within the IOR. Any thought of an Indian navy SSBN patrolling along China’s coastline is an impossibility since any such SSBN will first have to transit the Malacca Strait or Sunda Strait or Lombok Strait fully surfaced (as per UNCLOS guidelines which India adheres to) before entering the South China Sea, meaning the element of surprise will be totally lost & the PLA Navy’s SSNs operating out of Yulin naval base at Sanya in Hainan Island will easily be able to monitor & track such IN SSBNs the moment they enter the South China Sea from either of these three straits. Therefore, for good reason, the IN will never dispatch its nuclear-powered submarines to the South China Sea. Likewise, if the IN were to operate a fleet of nine SSNs, then the PLA Navy’s SSNs & SSGNs will be extremely hardput to enter the IOR from either of these three straits.
For the Sea King Mk42B upgrade (Mk42Cs are not ASW/ASV platforms) the Helras & FLASH have been shortlisted. For surface search, the Seaspray 7000e & EL/M-2022H have been shortlisted. ASCMs shortlisted include the Kongsberg HSM, Delilah’s maritime strike version & the Spice 250.

Arjun said...
Hi Prasun,
>What is your opinion on the article? Is having mountain strike corps a bad move for our infantry heavy army? Or in a hypothetical war its exactly what we need as not just the Himalayas but the entire Tibet region is the highest on Earth with average elevation of 5km.
>Which aircraft do you think will be the best suited to provide close air support for the mountain corps forces as helicopter gunships proved futile in Kargil? Any acquisition planned by the Army Aviation Corps?
>Economically crippling China in the Indian Ocean through blockade might work only in a long drawn out war? But even in WW2 the Germans had success against Brits only initially, eventually the ships always got through.

Arjun said...

Did we ever consider Su-25 for close support for ground troops?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARJUN: Now that you’ve asked it, in my reckoning it is the ranting of a retired naval officer who seems to have been denied his monthly/daily quota of alcoholic beverages & hence his angst during a forced ‘dry spell! Take for instance the following remarks:

1) Some commentators are of the view that the Chinese incursion in the Depsang plains swung the decision decisively in favour of the strike corps. If so, it doesn’t make much sense, for, where is Depsang and where is Panagarh—the headquarters of the mountain strike corps?
-----------------------------------This is a totally ridiculous notion, to say the very least. Because it is a known fact that terrain-wise, the only place the IA can launch any meaningful combined-arms ground offensive is opposite Sikkim & along the Sikkim-Bhutan border & that’s why Panagarh was chosen as the HQ for this projected Mountain Warfare Corps, which would have an offensive orientation.

2) Secondly, whatever we may do on land, we will remain an asymmetric power vis-à-vis the huge People’s Liberation Army (PLA), whose defence budget is thrice ours. Thirdly, a strike corps in the mountains denies us the time and place of a counter offensive, because it is geographically limited.
-----------------------------------Of this ‘huge’ defence budget of China, 52% goes to the PLA Navy, followed by the 2nd Artillery Corps, the PLA Army & lastly the PLAAF. In addition, this Mtn Corps charged with offensive roles will be operating in conjunction with the IAF (hence the decision to base the C-130J-30s & the bulk of the Mi-17V-5 helicopter fleet in Panagarh & Shillong). Vertical mobility options in terms of choosing the place for waging battles therefore further increases the IA’s options of choosing its battlefields both laterally & in-depth.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Cont'd from above....

3) So the mountain strike corps would already be at high altitudes with little possibility of being redeployed without huge air mobility. All this should have been apparent to the Army Aviation Corps whose leaders seem bereft of strategic thinking, having flown light helicopters all their lives.
While the IAF’s ALGs in the North East are meant for air-maintenance via aerial logistics tools of existing IA formations already deployed in defensive mode, the IA’s Aviation Corps has initiated a major construction effort in Sikkim, Uttarakhand & Himachal Pradesh under which several helicopter bases (for housing Rudras & LUHs) & UAV-specific airfields will be up & running by 2018.

4) We are not privy to the notings in the file preceding the decision to raise a mountain strike corps, but it would certainly appear that the border issue appears to have been treated purely as an army problem for which only the army can find a solution, with the other arms of the government contributing nothing.
Again, totally off the mark by a wide margin. The HQs of IA & IAF have worked together & that’s the very reason why the C-130J-30s & Mi-17V-5s were procured by the IAF in the very first place & that’s also why the IAF’s CH-47F Chinooks will be procured (for airlifting the LW-155s).

For close air-support during contact battles, Rudra helicopter-gunships & attack helicopters like AH-64D Apache will be the best options, especially along the East Sikkim/West Bhutan salient & Chumbi Valley.

For OP Safed Sagar in 1999 the IAF had no helicopter-gunships. The lone Mi-171 armed with rocket-pods was lost to a FIM-92 Stinger MANPADS off Tololing because that Mi-171 was not equipped with any flare countermeasures dispensers. The IAF never considered the Su-25 for procurement since it already had MiG-23BNs & MiG-27Ms equipped with 6-barrel armour-bursting cannons similar to the ones on-board the A-10A warthog.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

GSAT-7 poised for liftoff at last:

Ni8 Dweller said...

@Prasun Da,
Not sure how IIAP’s astronomers came such a conclusion if indeed other scientific expeditions have come up with other results. May be they're preferring not to stir the pond right now btwn you've succinctly put forth some of the reasons behind Mountain corps but aren't we getting infantry heavy there (In a time where Nation-States are moving away from heavy task force to a lean-mean counterpart) or are we just pressing an advantage we've over the Chinese in infantry there between do you see a possibility/space for India when it comes to gunships like Lockheed AC-130 Spectre? Could the MRTA program take that direction some day although we're yet to consolidate MRTA into regional airliner when there is a clear market in the offing for such a product?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Ni8 DWELLER & ARJUN: Do read this:

AC-130 Spectre-type platforms are used primarily in support of those types special operations that are unlikely to be undertaken by India's SOF formations. One military force-multiplier platform that could well be derived from the IL-214 MRTA is an airborne battle management platform capable of performing air-traffic management taskings in support of sorties mounted by friendly MALE-UAVs, tactical USAVs, and various types of helicopter platforms.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Ni8 DWELLER: By the way, even in the absence of the yet-to-be-formed Mountain Corps HQ, the existing Corps-level formations in the North East--IV Corps in Tezpur & XXXIII Corps in Siliguri--have had enough forces & firepower since the mid-1980s to undertake limited tactical offensive operations along the LAC, something that was acknowledged by even the PLA during the Sumdorong Chu crisis when the IA launched OP Trident in the fall of 1986.

1978 said...

How low can we go??? we Indians love to lick the boots of the British. This is so sickening that the fucked up media has made a big story and is projecting it as a national pride, while the Indian is just a footman and serving the British.We, Indians,are one among the most shameless creatures on this planet.If we had any shame, we should have matched the British by every step,but on the contrary,we,the shameless, are still stuck with another fucked up and retarded land called "PAKISTAN".So much so that we don't even think beyond these bastardized Pakistanis,when in reality is that these Pakistanis should have never figured among our priority, it is one classic fucked up failed state, and our elected fuckers do not see how even after independence the Europeans dictate terms to us (the shameless).

What fucking is there to be proud about an Indian working as a footman for those British fucks? we have not surpassed them in science and technology, not in diplomatic clout,not in military,not in development...nothing, nothing at all.The fucked up media has made a big story of an Indian working as a footman.We right fully deserve the tag "THIRD WORLD STATE".

another moment of truth to shameless 'we'.

excerpt from the article:

"Whatever China’s intentions, it is its capabilities that count, according to military experts. They are concerned that China’s two military regions bordering Russia, Shenyang and Beijing, have more troops and firepower than all Russian land forces and have conducted several large-scale manoeuvres of land forces in recent years that involved the relocation of troops across 2,000 km. Such operations are only possible against Russia and Kazakhstan, experts said"

china now has more fire power than Russia has,and we the shameless, are still stuck in a dick measuring competition with a failed fucked up shit land called "PAKISTAN".And the bastards talk about two front war.When a failed state keeps bothering us, than it says how fucked up we the shameless are.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.Spike family consists of 4 Spikes.

The helicopter launched version is the ER with a 8 km range. The LR weighs the same as the MR but offers 4 km range, a NLOS capabilty and ability to switch targets by means od datalinks.

2.Spike LR will be a better choice than Javelin.

3.Besides providing for the full spectrum of communications needs of the Navy how much swath of territory will its multi spectral ballistic missile early warning payloads covers ?

4.Will it translate into any meaningful early warning capabilities of the Indian defense capabilties and can it be used to track,study and keep a watch on all balltisc missile launches in India's immediate neighbourhoods ?Wont it be a vital addition to the 2 Airstars which are solely deployed for monitoring Pak missile launches ?

5. Whats the type of layered in depth sam cover being proposed or planned for the entire Andaman and Nicobar islands . A lr sam category sam system forming the outer layer followed by a mrsam and then a terminal C-RAM system to deal with the leakers ??

6.Helras , Flash in sonars, ELM-2022H Seaspray were already shorlisted back in 2008 and 9. Among them which was finally selected by IN HQ for the mk42B upgrade ?
Besides wont there be any upgrades for Ka-28PL ?

7.With Kolkata class DDG wont it take a lot more than 24 supersoinc ashm to saturate the aesa radar and the primary airsurvellience radar ? Kolkata class can DDG can also serve as a potent point cum area ABM shield to the place where it is deployed provided some early warning is avialable to cue the onboard radars to the threat.

8.It would have been much of a delight if the Barak-8 complement would have been 64 instead of just 48. All dedicated air warfare frigates have a good sam load.Coni=sidering we yet dont have sucha dedficated ddg like F125 or Type 052C, 64 would have been better.

9.Just like L&T have made several enhancements to the RBU-6000 launchers and the projectile is itseld having several improvements, doesnt anyone upgrade the AK630M turrets,fire control systems comprising the radar and eo directors . New airburst rounds in the manner ofAHEAD can bve developed for AK630M.

10.And Panagarh airfield /airbase isnt large enough to accomodate 6 C-130J-30 and a sizable Mi-17v5 at the same time .

With such troops conecntration,central ordance depots and localisation of assets in [Panagrah it deserves a layered sam ntework.


Iceman said...

sir, it possible to develop an aerial refuelling aircraft based on IL-214 like kc-130j?
2.does plans to develop longbow type radar for LCH?

AKHIL SURI said...

Prasun ,

(1) Will the Apache & Rudra be able to carry out offensive operations in High Altitudes like Kargil ? Officially NATO lost 15 Apaches in Afghanistan mostly to enemy fire .

(2) Can a top attack ATGM like Javelin be also used to strike helos & aircrafts ?


abs said...

In this piece by an ex Rear Admiral.
The retired Navy officer questions the positioning of the MSC with the overall emphasis on whether the MSC was the best option against the Chinese front,and also goes on to rue the following

"First, it would be geographically confined to one or two axes of movement and capable of being blunted. Secondly, whatever we may do on land, we will remain an asymmetric power vis-à-vis the huge People’s Liberation Army (PLA), whose defence budget is thrice ours. Thirdly, a strike corps in the mountains denies us the time and place of a counter offensive, because it is geographically limited"

I would like to have your views on the above article, especially the above quoted lines.

Vikram Guha said...


Staying with the A 10 & Su 25 . Defence IQ recently did a comparison between the two and found the A 10 to be a lot superior . Here is the link

spanky's Blog said...


Please refer to Prasuns reply above for the same question


Gessler said...


Wow, now you're talkin'!

abs said...

Thanks mate :) was in a hurry hence posted without taking a peek earlier.

Anonymous said...

Sir, thank you very much for all the wisdom and knowledge you bestow upon us. And now if we accept all these alien theories being true, where does all the religion and specially the Hindu culture stand? Thanking you in anticipation of your answer.

Amit said...

Can INS Arihant be armed with Brahmos missile ?

R S Swamy said...

Anon 4:34 - Given people believe there are aliens then we are back to square one. Who created/ made the aliens because if they evolved (sic) just like us then they must also ask the same question? Erich von Daniken spent endless hours researching this and still has not been able to answer this. Why even Claude Vorillon (may be I spelt wrong), a French motor journalist converted to become RAEL and started a new religion worshipping the aliens - well kind of! Google Raelians and you could end up participating in a Sensual meditation with a space ship just above you!

Littlemaster said...

Sir , The latest tranche3 Typhoons are offering true omnirole capabilities. Besides a higher unit price, were there any other performance or capability issues that led to Typhoon's defeat to Rafale.
a.In the current negotiations that are going on with Dassault which M88 variant is being talked about fr powering the Rafale .

b.How much time will it require to establish a new production line for Rafale. Wont it be better if that process had already started .

c.Can HAL Rudra carry rotor mounted optronic sensors and fire control radar .

d.Cant a 2 stage Marv equipped variant of K-15 be developed for use as a asbm. ?

e.Does RBE-2AA provide more and better AG modes than E-Captor.In terms of strike applications which is a superior platform.

f.How much is INS Aridhamn complete .Cam it enter opeartional service in 2015 .

NEEL said...


In 2010 , what was the performance of Rheinmetall Defence Systems’ RTG-52?

Caesar uses Mercedes-Benz Unimog 6x6 or Renault Sherpa-5 truck chassis. This same truck-chassis or any other truck will carry the MGS in case of indian Army?

Is Indian army needed The Amphibious Assault Vehicle like AAV7
or ZBD2000 ?

Anonymous said...

hi prasun,

what are ur view's on this, i also know that the article is written by Ajai Shukla. Now please don't say earlier PSQR as spelt in article were very stringent. Here HAL met some of the stringent limits. Also there was an embraer trainer already fulfilling that role with the stringent of limits but not sure about this didn't check the stats of embraer a/c. Finally i just wanna ask if the quality standards could be relaxed for an international tenders then why the fucking moron airforce can't give same relaxation to HAL.

VMT thanks in advance.

Anonymous said...

Regarding above post.

Sorry for being a bit off-topic.

Only believed ur views hence asking your views.

Pratap Kumar said...

Sir the CWC has given nod to separate telangana state. Do you think the bill for separate state will be approved by the parliament houses as well?

What are the implications involved with the separate state?

Will it help development in any way? I have seen a lot of states divided by NDA govt. when they were in power and none of them achieved any economic development to any considerable extent.

I hate the idea of a separate telangana state.

raw13 said...


you need to relax or go get a girl/boy/goat friend. Remember one thing, you are the perfect material for divide and rule!!!

It is people like you that have f***** South Asia and you moan at your helplessness but still haven't learnt anything.

Heberian said...

@ 1978 :

Stop being a troll and demosntrating your latent insecurities and utter lack of decency by completely off the mark rants. You are not cool just because you use the "fuck" word several times. And you definfitely dont appear patriotic because you claim to hate "servitude".

You would probably sell your left nut to get PR to the UK or a green card to the US, and most probably you got rejected in some H1B type application... and so now you hate everyone.

The Pakistanis are bastards, the British are fucked up, so are all our decision makers and our military leaders (also bastards according to you) who talk about two front wars. So maybe the solution is to entrust the nation to your infinitely wise and presumptous all knowing hands!!

As raw13 (who has previously tacitly indicated that he/she is from our humsaya Pakistan) very rightly indeed are perfect material for divide and rule, that has always blighted our country..... you miss that its people like you who have landed us here... just try broadening a road in our cities... and patriots like you will appear dime a dozen. Its people like you who destroy in the name of religion when bored of destroying in the name of caste. And yet you blame the media for very natural media curiousity about the royal footman? Seriously?

You truly need to relax.. but dont listen to raw13's suggestion to get a boy/girl friend.... spare them from having to deal with you. Instead just stick to and stick it to a goat friend, if the goat will have you once you start ranting.

This is a forum where many intelligent questions are asked and answered.... even when they are asked in the scores like our friend Subir. But this definitely is not a place for stupid and bigoted rants.

@ Gessler : Having read some of your older intelligent observations, I am surprised you actually might like 1978's rant. I am hoping that you were just being sarcastic :)

Arup said...

Sir ,
If Arihant class ssgn take the long path, sailing through Timor sea and entering Banda sea then again going backwards through Java Sea between Sumatra and Borneo and finally entering Soth China sea. They can also enter Chinese terretorial enters and approach the coastline by sailing thru philippine sea and finally throgh Taiwan and Philippines. These subs can go virtually round the globe.Only constraint is the onbaorad perishable food supplies. By approaching close to Chinese coastlines or entering Southb China sea it can act as an ELINT/ESM/SIGINT platform.

Cant these subs carry the Brahmos blk3 with a 550 km range. Longer ranged Brahmos will result in a bigger exclusion jone for enemy shipping.An area denial weapon.
For how long will the SAT last ? Another 8 months at least.

Is the INS Aridhaman now being outfitted? navy's coventional line of submarines may be well behind schedule but Arihant class is well on schedule.

What TAS are the Arihant class SSGN packing on their fins ? What torpedo decoying system are they having ?
Is there any progress in negotiations with DCNS for SSN. IN will be needing atleast of them.

Can the rest of the Kolkata class be outfitted with the longer 120 km range Barak-8? Doesnt the Navy require some dedicated anti air warfare destroyer. Packing just fourty eight Barak-8 and Ak-630 doesnt exactly make them as fleet airdefense platforms . SPY-1d though a pesa has much greater anteena area and ahs a higher power aprture product performance than the technologically superior El/m-2248 MF-STAR, exactly what is needed for long range tracking and detection of ultra low rcs targets in the class of IRBM,MRBM,SLBM,quasi ballistic missiles,supersonic ashm. When 250 + km range standard missiles are being deployed in almost all the major navies destoyers .

After the Delhi class DDG's Kh-35 were relifed by mahindra defense were they upranged to 240 km the very same as the latest Kh-35 and was a wideband passive homing along with improved sensitivity ARSSEK.

Among the radars,dipping sonars that have been shortlisted which is likely to be shortlisted by navy for mk42b. Wasnt RBS15 also participating in that race for ashms .

What TAS are the Arihant class SSGN packing on their fins ? What torpedo decoying system are they having ?

Isnt the author absoutely correct about this ?

The Indian Army is a fine institution and no one grudges it any funding. But it is also one of the most infantry heavy armies in the world. Its armour-to-infantry ratio is badly skewed, it is not air mobile, its manoeuvre capability is poor and Rs.60,000 crore would have addressed all these deficiencies and more. Instead, with the strike corps it will become even more infantry heavy and Rs.60,000 crore will have been wasted in barely addressing the tremendous disparity with the PLA’s mobility, numbers and manoeuvre capability.

Althougharmy has around 2000 T-72 , 800 T-90, 124 Arjuns and some T-55 in storage it has very small nos of IFV and APC for mechanised infantry. Even PA has got a greater no of APC. Infact they have around 2000 M113. Indian army is very much lagging in mechanised infantry. The IFVs it uses are 2nd gen obsoletes. Even a 7.62 ap round will pass through thes rear and sides. Wheeled APC s are almost missing from the inventory. Wheeled Apc has good mobility left in them even after they have lost a wheel in an IED or mine balst. But it is not so for tracked ones.

Instead of procuring modern IFVs with good allround protection like CV-90,BMP-3 IA has instead iopted to license produce the old BMP-2 in OFB Medak which is having literaaly the very same armour protection as it was having in the Soviet days.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To 1978: During such moments it always helps to know that there are far more worse-off folks than you are, such as the Hazaras in AfPak, the Lebanese, Somalis, etc, etc. Both RAW 13 & HEBERIAN are right & if you have really lost your mental equilibrium & can’t seem to recover it, then you ought to resort to goat/donkey/camel-humping!

To SUBIR: 1) There a 5th member too: the mini-SPIKE. 2) Spike-2LR isn’t reqd since the Konkurs-Ms are being procured. 3) the IOR plus parts of Central Asia, TAR & Southeast Asia. 4) Of course it will. Aerostat-mounted Airstars are for precision ballistic missile trajectory plotting & not for early warning as such. 5) Sam as that envisaged for protection of Vas & VPs. 6) Nothing’s been selected so far. Ka-28PLs too will be upgraded. 7) 3 x Project 15A/Project 15B DDGs will be more than enough to neutralise massed salvo-launches of supersonic ASMs like Raduga Kh-41 Zubr/3M-80E Moskit. 8) That would have been possible if the IN had stuck to CODOG propulsion, instead of CODAG for the P-15A/P-15B DDGs, since CODAG occupies more volume within the DDG’s superstructure. The IN should have stuck to only gas-turbine propulsion for such DDGs, instead of going for both gas-turbines & Bergen diesel-engines for such vessels. 9) Existing AK-630Ms are still quite potent & have been enhanced with new-generation optronic fire-control systems as well. 10) It will undergo a massive expansion in future.

To ICEMAN: 1) Most definitely so. 2) Not yet.

To AKHIL SURI: 1) Not the Apache, but the Rudra & LCH out to an altitude of 16,000 feet. 2) Yes, but only if the ATGM is fired downwards towards low-flying helicopters. In Afghanistan during the 1980s some Mi-24s were shot down with RPG-7s using this technique whenever the helicopters employed terrain-masking flight profiles & flew low over valleys.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: I would beg to differ with that analysis, especially since the Su-25 has undergone repeated upgrades over the years not only in Russia, but also in Georgia, & can today fire a whole range of PGMs, be it of Russian or non-Russian origin.

To Anon@4.34PM: VMT, but all I do is share my knowledge & expertise with you all, but not any wisdom since wisdom has to be acquired by every individual. Wisdom is never bestowed or given or shared. As for your query, you need to do some research on the meta-physical Vedic Akaashik records. Kindly browse through this:

To AMIT: Of course. BrahMos-1 & Nirbhay SLCMs as well.

To R S SWAMY: You need to do some research on the meta-physical Vedic Akaashik records. Kindly browse through this:

To LITTLEMASTER: Nope. It was a pricing issue, period. A) The same one that is now in series-production. B) At least 2 years. C) No. D) ASBMs don’t exist. E) Presently, yes & therefore the Rafale scores over the EF-2000. F) Only by 2017.

To NEEL: It was never evaluated then, since by then the blacklisting process of Rheinmetall had already begun. For India, the Sherpa-5 chassis is on offer along with the Caesar. Not the IA, but the IN’s Sagar Prahari Bal will in future require amphibious assault vehicles.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRATAP KUMAR: My personal view is that the more states the better, BUT ONLY IF it leads to administrative efficiency. If the US can have 50 states, I don’t see why India with a population of 1.2 billion should have only 29 states. Let there be a new state of Vidarbha, new Bundelkhand, new Haritpur & a new Gorkhaland since, for Indian citizens, it won’t make any difference at all in terms of geographical mobility. Even after creating Telangana, the coastal Andhra state facing the western seaboard will stand to benefit far more economically, since coastal belts are always naturally prone to being used extensively as trading gateways (similar to how China’s coastal belt has prospered far more than the interior hinterland of China).

To ARUP: If any SSBN wants to enter South China Sea from IOR then it will have to transit the straits I mentioned yesterday. The only other option is to go all the way to western Australia, skirt papua New Guinea & then head towards South China Sea, which in any case is logistically unsustainable. While the SSBN’s propulsion ensures that it can roam around the globe, the human resource constraints will prevent it from achieving such feats, especially if no overseas logistics facilities are available en route. Submarines are used as ELINT/SIGINT platforms against hostile coastal belts ONLY IN LIEU of either enforcing a maritime exclusion zone or prior to mounting amphibious expeditionary assaults by marine infantry. And neither scenario applies to India’s armed forces vis-à-vis China. It is no use carrying long-range ASCMs if mid-course navigational/targetting updates by either radar or GPS are unavailable. Consequently, any IN warship equipped with either BrahMos Block-1 or even Novator 3M-54E but devoid of shipborne helicopters like Sea King Mk42B, Ka-28PL or Ka-31 or supporting maritime surveillance platforms like P-8Is won’t be able to acquire hostile naval vessels beyond the horizon. Same applies to all those corvettes, FFGs & DDGs armed with Kh-35 Uran-E ASCMs. S-3/Aridaman’s hull is still under construction. Outfitting will come later. There’s no TAS on S-2 Arihant. Torpedo decoys are the same as those on the IN’s diesel-electric SSKs. Missile re-lifing isn’t the same as upgrading.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@7.38PM: The report is factually untrue on few vital counts & without providing proper contextualisation, it portrays the wrong picture. For instance, firstly, PSQR is NEVER issued to any OEM for R & D purposes. Instead, it is an internal baseline document (and by no means the holy grail) of any armed service that finally gets revised & refined into the official ASQR, GSQR & NSQR. Therefore, to even suggest that a PSQR was thrust upon an OEM (HAL) & that HAL was expected to adhere to the PSQR is pure hogwash & belies the truth. Secondly, IAF HQ realised very early after drafting the PSQR that if this were to be released as the ASQR, then there would be only a sole-source scenario since only Embraer’s Super Tucano was complying with the PSQR’s clauses & Korea Aerospace Industries’ KAT-1 was only a paper design. Since this scenario was unacceptable as per the DPP guidelines, the PSQR was diluted to include more than one bidder so as to ensure a competitive bidding process & that’s how the PSQR evolved & morphed into the official ASQR. Thirdly, given the urgency of not just the IAF’s but also the IN’s reqmt for BTTs, the importation route was given precedence since an indigenously designed/developed HTT-40 BTT from HAL would take at least five years or even more to emerge & be flight-certified. Fourthly, since opportunity knocks on one’s doorstep only once, the only time HAL could have developed a BTT was in the 1990s when it had already designed & fabricated a mock-up of the HTT-35 BTT but even then it was to be equipped with imported cockpit avionics, imported engine, imported propeller & imported fuel-flow control system. Since time was then available, it was for the MoD to approve the HTT-35’s R & D project & had the MoD been more ambitious & audacious, it could also have authorised funding for HAL, NAL & GTRE for joining forces to develop an indigenous turboprop engine similar in performance to the PWC-built PT6A-25C. Between 1994 & 2004 such a task could well have been accomplished. However, such a golden opportunity was then wasted by the MoD, which instead took the next foolhardy step of authorising R & D funds for the HJT-36 IJT, which the IAF does not require today & which HAL has found impossible to deliver on its own (& hence it last year sought BAE Systems’ advice/mentoring on airframe design & its flight-control logic development). And no work has even started on developing the HJT-36’s flight simulator—only an ELBIT-supplied cockpit procedures trainer exists today. Based on what HAL officials told me during Aero India 2013, the HTT-40 will use the PT6A-25C engine & related fuel-flow control system, Hartzell propeller, VARTA batteries, & ELBIT Systems-supplied avionics & ECS—all these being imported, with HAL only designing & fabricating the airframe, hydraulics & accessories. The end-product therefore hardly qualifies as an indigenous product by any stretch of imagination & instead qualifies as just a clone of the PC-7 Mk2.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT.

1.Will GSAT-7 cover the whole of pakistan in terms of ballistic missile early warning and accuarate trajectory plotting ?


Sir, it seems Kolkata class will be having 64 LRSAM. The small clusters of 2 VLS close to the bridge are for Brahmos. And the rest 16 vertical ,launchers in clusters of 2 are for Barak. Now each of the 16 is large enough to accomdate 4 Baraks a piece considering each Brahmos vertical laucher is such small in diameter.

3.You were spot on wrt to the INS Vikramaditya rocket launching. It indeed is a ccountermeasures dispensing rocket. It was fired from a Zif-121 launcher.

4.Wasnt our Rafales supposed to have the 20000lb M88-3 from the beginning. M88-3 is already avialable and can be installed on customer's request. A more powerful version is now in developement. You talked about a 32000 lb M88 variant. This must be in developement.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Con’t from above…

Fifthly, HAL is being disingenuous when it claims that the armed version of the HTT-40 has bright export prospects: just look at how many armed Super Tucanos or KAT-1s have been ordered worldwide to date. Furthermore, neither the IAF nor IN requires armed BTTs. Sixth & finally, why should the IAF therefore be expected to fund 80% of the R & D bill for the BTT-40, which includes the cost of setting up new component manufacturing & airframe final assembly lines by HAL for the HTT-40, plus financing the certification-related & product-support-related reqmts? Why should the IAF waste its precious financial resources for duplicating the logistics-support pipeline for two types of BTTs (PC-7 Mk2 & HTT-40) at a time when both the IA & IAF have agreed that it makes no sense whatsoever to acquire two types of LUHs/RSHs & have instead decided to surrender the option of importing such helicopters in favour of the HAL-developed LUH? And if indeed HAL considers the HTT-40 to have a promising future in the export market, has it been able to secure any letters of intent from any prospective customer to date? Proof of the pudding lies in its eating & therefore let HAL first produce some serious & irrefutable evidence of any overseas customer interest in the HTT-40. And no potential export customer will ever place any faith or reliance on a PSQR that never morphed into a definitive ASQR.

These are the facts that I have presented above & it is only from them that the truth emerges for all to study, analyse, absorb & digest. Achievement of indigenisation & mastering of core technological competencies never comes from either ill-informed jingoism or from illogical/untenable/malicious/mischievous tirades launched against targetted IAF officials.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) Of course. 2) Wrong. P-15A DDG’s scale-model shown by MDL at both DEFEXPO 2012 & Aero India 2013 clearly show VLS cells for 48 Barak-2 LR-SAMs & 16 BrahMos-1 VLS cells. 3) Had read the procurement contract documentation for INS Vikramaditya in 2006 itself.

Anshuman Chakravorty said...

Sir, the net says Barak-8 has the max. speed of mach2. Is it true, and if true is it sufficient for the future challenges faced by the IN.

NEEL said...

Many many thanks for your reply.

According to THE-HINDU--"DRDO scientists are planning to carry out Nag missile test with a more rugged version of NAMICA. The launcher had been hardened further to withstand missile firing loads."
Please upload the picture of new NAMICA if you can.

What is your view about Gorkhaland.Bangla-k ar katobar vag kora hobe?

Sachin said...

Can Prahaar missile equipped with nuclear warhead ?

F said...


I was under the impression that the main reason countries have gone for the Tucano is because it is much cheaper than the PC-7/9, yet offers similar flight characteristics. Another reason is because of Swiss laws, with regards to using the PC-7/9 in an internal conflict. Is this true? The Swiss in the past were very unhappy when Myanmmar used its PC-9s to target Shan rebels.

Is it true that under UNCLOS, submarines are required to travel on the surface when entering territorial waters of another country?

Is it possible for vehicle mounted IR guided MANPADS/VSHORADS to fire on the move?

A FAN said...


Will the deals for the

1) CH-47F

2) AH-64E


4) 2 follow-on A-50EI PHALCON AWACS


be signed during this fiscal?

And what is the status of the N-MRH. AFAIK a winner has not even been announced between the NH-90 or S-70B and infact they've been asked to extend their bids. As such contract negations have not even begun so we are at least 1-2 years away from even a contract signing meaning we are at least 5-6 years away from the first units being delivered. WTF is going on?

raw13 said...

Does anyone know how the "shelf life" of fighetrs compare? We always hear that western fighters have longer shelf-life, but the IAF for example have been using the Mig-21 since before i was born. It is one of the points western companies have used to justify higher prices. Is this still or has ever really been a valid point?

How does Su30 life compare with say mirage2k/F-16/Eurofighter?

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.Is it possible for GSAT-7's multi spectral payload to cover sucha a huge swath of territory from Pakistan,TOR region ,parts of Central Asia,TAR to southe East Asia considering it is an interim soln ?? It seems to offer top notch performance similar to other dedicated early warning satellites.

2.As you have read the Vikramaditya procurement contract documentation, can you tell about the onboard self defensive weaponry . How many Kashtan-M are there? Is there any Kinzhal or Shtil sam batteries .

3.Dosnt CODAG offers huge endurance? Bergen diesel engines will allow Kolkata class vessels to cruise economically at speeds upto 20 knots.

4.Is it possible,feasible for P15A/B vessels to offer point ABM coverage to the areas of their deployment and to ports,IN FOB ?

5.What constitues IAF's VA and VP sam coverage ? How many layers of interlapping sam fields are there. Is there any last line defense in the form of radar guided AAA and C-ram .

6.What mission sensors,avionics,glass cockpit had been selected for Ka-28PL of IN ? Does IN Ka-28PL carry any ashm like Kh-35 .

7.Isnt it theoratically possible for just a single P15A DDG with its complement of 48 barak-8 and AK630M to fend off a saturation attack of more than 40 40 Kh-41? MFSTAR alongwith AD-SATR is theoratically capable of tracking well over 200 aerial as well as surface targets.

8.What are the various improvements in the optronic fire control system of AK630M. Does it stand any chance against sea skimming high subsonic ashm. Kashtan M or palma CIWS would have been the ideal choice for this class.

9.Over the horizon targetting data as well as mid course updates for Arihant SSGN Brahmos can be provided by the patrolling P-8I, IN's MALE UAV which are to operate from Andaman and Nicobar Island chain. Su30mki equipped with EL/m-2060P can also engage in standoff air sea targetting. The latest pods are said to have ISTAR. This data can be conveyed in real time to a ground receving station via satcom which can then transmit it to Arihant via the GSAT-7 .Even the Bars radar is enough for providing targetting data. Military grade GPS can be provided by the IRNSS network.

10. Does IA,RR operate any STANAG 4269 Level 2 armoured Tata armoured Sumo and MM Rakshak .

Subir said...

@RAW13. Sir, Theres nothing as shelf life of fighters or even aircrafts. Fighters have TTSL- Total technical service lives. In shelf life the commodi ty has to be discarded after its shelf life is over. But TTSL can be exhautsed over a period of 8 years or 10 years or 20 years. It alld epends on the no of sorties flown per year/the no of flying hours logged. In IAF an appreciable no of sorties are generated in MiG-29 comapred to that for RuAF or USSR. This has resulted in our MiG-29 requiring frequent level 4 MRO and zero lifing. If an aircraft is left on the ground and it is flown just once a year that ac will last a lifetime, even more than our Mig-21 .

US and European origin acs had a greater mostly double to triple ttsl than their Soviet counterparts.For example a typical MiG-21 has an airframe TTSL of 2600 hours at max. On the otherhand F104 Starfighter had 4000-5000 airframe ttsl. This happened because Soviet airforce pilots logged in much less hours comapred to their QWestern cousins per year or over a fixed interval of time.

Now there are two TTSL. One for airframe . The other for the engine. Soviet origin turbofans and turbojes=ts had a hell lot lower ttsl than those from GE,PW,Safran,Rolls royce. GEF404 has a ttsl of around 6500+ hrs. Whereas AL31FP ser 1 had a ttsl of just 2000 hours. So most Soviet origin acs required 2 sets of powerplants over their lifetime.

Airframe ttsl can be extended by relifing/zero lifting. Powerplant ttsl can also be extended by replacing the hot end modules but its possible nly for Western and European origin and nt for Russian origin powerplants. Soveits and Russians are behind the West in high temp alloy metallurgy and powder metallurgy. But nowdays lo bypass turbofans with replaceble modules are being introduced by the Russians. PAF JF-17 RD-93 has a TTSL of just around 900 hrs. So new engines will be required for the entire fleet once that many hours have been logged.

And any aircraft cxan be maintained as long as its user wants provided its spares are still in production and are avilable at reasonable prices. Several Douglas DC-9 are still flying and so are 50s and 60s origin helicopters.

Missilesand their solid rocket motor have shelflives and so do ammunition but missiles can also be relifed by chaging the propellants.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANSHUMAN CHAKRAVORTY: Yes it is indeed true & it will constitute one of the best defences against inbound supersonic & subsonic ASCMs.

To NEEL: Had already uploaded the image of L & T’s NAMICA version last year & the image of BEL’s NAMICA version was uploaded in my Aero India 2013 show report thread.

To SACHIN: Of course, if there is a need for it.

To FARIS: We’re talking about the Super Tucano here of the type sold to TNI-AU, not the Tucano. Swiss laws only prevent Pilatus from selling its products in an armed configuration. But once the unarmed aircraft from Pilatus arrive at the customer’s country, it is the customer who has the final say on how such Pilatus-built products will be configured & there’s nothing that Pilatus can do about it. Myanmar has been configuring its PC-7s & PC-9s since 1987 for undertaking straffing operations. Had already explained the UNCLOS clauses dealing with navigation in the straits a few times before. No, land-mobile SAMs of any type cannot be fired when on-the-move.

To A FAN: Only the LW-155 & Rafale M-MRCA deals are expected to be signed this fiscal. All the rest will be inked in 2014 & 2015. For the N-MRH, Sikorsky’s S-70B Seahawk will be selected.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAW13: Not shelf-life, because in aviation parlance, there’s no such thing as a new or old/obsolete aircraft. Either an aircraft is in airworthy/serviceable condition, or it’s not. That’s why we have DC-3s/C-47 Dakotas & bell 47G helicopters flying even till this day on a regular basis. The lifespan of an aircraft depends on the total technical service life (TTSL) of its airframe, engine/s, hydraulics, accessories, instrumentation & avionics. While the TTSL of airframe & accessories can be extended during periodic refurbishments, the engines, hydraulics, wiring harnesses, instrumentation & avionics have to be replaced on a one-on-one basis. For instance, the MiG-29 was originally designed to have an airframe TTSL of 2,000 hours based on only 120 flight-hours logged per year, while its RD-33 turbofan had a TTSL of only 700 hours. However, airframe fatigue analysis tests conducted by the IAF in cooperation with AC-MiG found out that the airframe’s TTSL could well be safely stretched to another 4,000 hours but the rest had to be replaced. That’s how the MiG-29UPG programme was born. A similar TTSL extension programme is now underway for the Su-30MKI’s airframe & such refurbished airframes will have newer & higher-thrust versions of AL-31FP with 4,500-hour TTSL (against the 2,000 at present), meaning the lifespan of a Su-30MKI will be 2,000 + 4,500 flight-hours. For MRCAs whose airframes are built primarily with composites (like JAS-39 Gripen & Tejas) , the airframe TTSL will be higher than 6,000 flight-hours because A) composites have infinite life, & B) composites-built structures, unlike their metallic counterparts, do not suffer from corrosion & suffer from far less incidents of fatigue-induced structural cracks.

To SUBIR: 1) Why not? And who says it’s an interim solution? For, in future the two planned follow-on clones of GSAT-7 for the IAF & IA too will have on-board missile-monitoring sensors. 2) That question was asked numerous times before & I have answered it numerous times as well. In addition, several photos of INS Vikramaditya during its sea-trials clearly show what’s on-board & what’s not. 3) No. Endurance can also be increased by taking additional fuel on-board. 4) Not ABM coverage. Only anti-NLOS-BSM coverage. 5) The layer comprises MR-SAM, SHORADS, MANPADS & anti-aircraft cannons. 6) Nothing’s been selected to date. Ka-28PL never carried any ASCMs. 7) No. At least three P-15A DDGs are reqd. Tracking alone does not shoot down invound supersonic ASCMs. For that one requires simultaneous ripple-firing of SAMs. 8) Yes. 9) Presence of all such airborne platforms will easily be detected by shipborne passive surveillance systems & active jamming will serve to degrade such voice/imagery/data exchange networks. And it will also serve to reveal the location of the SSGN. In the real world, operations don’t happen this way at all. 10) No.

Littlemaster said...

Sir , After two or three years from now when the 1st batch of Rafale will be rolling off the HAL final assembly line , will the E-Captor aesa of Typhoon be mature enough and offer similar air-air ,overlapped air-ground modes and sub metric sar resolution of of RBE2AA . ?
E-Captor aesa array is mounted on a mechanical respositioner which offers the mmr wide fields of view which in turn enables the Typhoon to reamin outside of max peak engegement envelope of the opponenet's bvraam while continuing to offer its bvraam mid course updates. Rafale will nt be having such a game winning feature unless the smart skin aesa arrays are fielded on Rafales which is quite some time from now .

Will the Rafale deal be inked this year itself or this fiscal ? Are all our rafales going to be hardwired for carrying dorsal conformal fuel tanks ?

Wont the latest series 3 AL-31FP coming from UEC of Russia be having just an improved Ttsl and greater foreign object tolerance. You have said so previously. In some comments you opined that the thrust ratings of the new AL-31FP will be increased overtime by rechanging some modules. It will be having similar thrust ratings as its previous gen of AL-31FP. And a long time ago in your beatiful well narrated thread on Su30 upgrade-from air dominance to air superiority, you said that the new gen AL-31FP will be having full 3D TVC , TTSL of 6000 hrs and nt 4500 hrs and a all new digi FADEC .

Under the UPG upgrade is the TTSL being extended by another 4000 hrs for a total of 6000 hrs OR is it that Mig 29 upg will be having a total service life of 4000 hrs. The former makes more sense as RD33MK is having a ttsl a whole lot better than RD33 .?
After the sukhoi completes another 4500 hrs will it be possible for to extend its service life again. C-47 Dakotas and USAF F-15C and E have their TTSL extended many times .

raw13 said...

@Prasun & Subir,

Gents, thank you for the information.

NEEL said...


"The 125-mm smoothbore gun mounted unmanned turret and crew seated in a separate armored capsule"- is the essential feature of the next generation MBTs ?

Is Indian army intersted in CV90120 or Anders Light Tank and Rooikat like wheeled tank?

Priyabrata Gupta said...

Hi Prasun ,

I found your comments on Gorkhaland thought provoking . I am from Siliguri myself though I work in Vizag .

Nepalis in Darjeeling district came in from Nepal. And though they are inhabiting that place for a 100 years that does not give them right to demand a separate state . Most of them came in illegally after 1947 & since their re production rate is high they have a few hundred thousand Nepalis there .Almost all Bengalis from Darjeeling district have been forced to flee by the Nepalis.

By their logic if a community occupies any place they can demand a State .

Do you concur with my views about the illegitimate nature of their demand since they never belonged to that place in the first place ?

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Boeing has started building as many as 12 more C-17 airlifters in anticipation of signing new orders from international customers including India .

Any chances of India purchasing more C 17s ?

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.After the GSAT-7 gets operational Indian defense forces ,DRDO will be getting a preety clear pic of all ballistic missile lunches in our neighbourhood. The trajectory of our own missiles can also be determined very precisely. With Gsat-7 missile warning sensors ASL,DRDL scientists will be able to monitor the kinetic interception of PDV. Is it due to this that PDV launch was postponed to September when GSAT-7 will be operational.

2.In our case, MRSAM coverage is provided by SA-3 Pechoras and Akash mk1. What provides the Shorad coverage ?

3.Why hasnt till today not a single pic of IA operational Spyder SR launcher had been released. Most often IA shows off its latest acquistions. And have you ever scome across a T-90M pic with SAAB Barracuda camoflague.

4.How was targetting data and mid course guidance provided to P-700 Granits of Oscar clas SSGN? They had a range of 600 km. How will targetting info be fed to Brahmos of Arihant class ?

5.Doesnt INS Arihant have a TAS? It is having a bulbuous fairing over the tailfin.

6.The 120 km range version of Barak-8 was touted by IAI to be an ABM system and being more capable than PAC-3.PAC-3 can intercpt TBM and even MRBM in their terminal pjase. So, LRSAM may be able to intercept TBM,IRBM and MBRM.

7.Are LPI radars,jammers undetctable to modern RWRs and cant be targetted or attacked with ARM like Harm,Alarm, Kh-31PD and Bvraam with passive seekers.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAW13: You’re always most welcome.

To NEEL: No. Not in these vehicles.

To PRIYABRATA GUPTA: If one goes by your logic, then all those East Pakistanis (Muslim & non-Muslim) that had migrated to India from August 1947 till 1971 too can be labeled as illegals! And yesterday it was the high production-rate of Muslims, today it is the high production-rate of the Nepalese, whose turn will it be tomorrow? Bengalis settlers brought in by the Brits during the colonial era to settle down throughout the North East & Darjeeling were targetted by the native inhabitants in places like Meghalaya & Assam for very much the same reason why the Hindu Kashmiri Pandits & some affluent Kashmiri Muslims in Kashmir were targetted by the Kashmiri Muslims & forced to flee to Jammu & elsewhere—the reason being that the State of India had abdicated its responsibilities as far as law enforcement went. In WB’s case, like I explained earlier, it will first have to be proven that a state of Gorkhaland will be economically sustainable before any decision is taken on statehood. The bottomline is that the Centre in Delhi is stoking this issue in retaliation for WB opposing the Teesta Waters Accord that needs to be inked & ratified without any further delay between Delhi & Dhaka. The moment this Accord is inked & the moment the TMC stops opposing this Accord, the Gorkhaland issue will fizzle out overnight, mark my words.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: The IAF requires about six more C-17A Globemaster-3s to add to the 10 now in delivery. Those six C-17As have already been optioned for in the original contract inked between India & the US.

To SUBIR: 1) Not just the lone GSAT-7, but also the two follow-on GSATs for the IA & IAF. 2) OSA-AK & Strella-10M. 3) There are many in-service products whose photos have not yet been released. T-90S & Arjun Mk1 both use Barracuda camouflage systems. 4) Target acquisition was via satellite-based RORSATs & this was then transmitted by telecommunications satellites to the SSGNs. For acquiring similar capabilities, India will require the service of radar ocean recce satellites equipped with ISAR. 5) No submarines of the IN have TAS. 6) No, not IRBMs or MRBMs or TBMs, but only SRBMs & NLOS-BSMs. MIM-104 PAC-3 too can intercept only SRBMs & NLOS-BSMs. 7) ELINT sensors are improving by leaps & bounds & can today detect LPI RF emissions as well.

Alpha said...


It will be very much in favor of the nation if Indian Navy embarks on second Aircraft Carrier with same specifications as IAC-I (i.e., 40000 tons conventionally powered). It will save lot of time in building the second indigenous Aircraft Carrier (May be the project can be fructify by 2020 and commissioned in 2021). Then the IN will have enough time to embark on heavier nuclear powered aircraft carrier to Induct by 2025 - 2028 time frame (Ample time for DAE to come up with next generation 200 MW compact nuclear reactor design for both submarines and warships).

reddy said...

Dear Prasun,

Am shocked to see you endorsed an article published by Praveen Swami by linking his article in your blog.

Pls read about Praveen Swamy's credibility:



He describes himself as a NSA (A for analyst) in twitter. he is just Funny Bitch.