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Friday, August 30, 2013

Snapshots Of MAKS 2013


Anonymous said...

Looking at some of the pics, I was wondering if the cannesterised nuclear capable missiles had the nuclear warheads on them before cannisterisation, or whether you had the option of adding the warhead at the immediate pre-launch stage ?

raw13 said...

Nice pics, Thank you!!!!

Anonymous said...

So frustrating, just read that paf jf17 are will be taking part in exercies with PLAAF su-30/j11/j10. Where is Tejas?

Arpan said...

Dear Prasun,

Thanks for the nice pics.

1. Any news on arjun MBT trials??

2. What about LSP-6? spin tests & high alpha?

looking forward to a reply.



Vikram Guha said...

@Anon 9:53 A.M -

"cannesterised nuclear capable missiles".... where in the pics ? Not true buddy .

The only missile from those pics that can probably be armed with a nuclear warhead is Brahmos .

The other missiles are S 350 a.k.a Vityaz and the Tor . Both SAMs .

Apart from the missiles the other pics are that of the N036B-1-01L/ -01B NIIP AESA ( side looking )for the PAK FA .

Subir said...

13.The 4th PAK-FA prototype doesnt have rearward IRST and the 2nd and 3rd are having something aft of the cockpit but they look more like hard kill ir jammers,dircm than irst.

14.the poster which is there befor Tata truck mounted TORM2KM ; is it labelling the Tor as a C-RAM system capable of neutralising the entire spectrum of air threats from ARM,standogg PGM,tactical AGM,ALCM,LACM bout sub and supersonic,helicopters and jets ,everything short of Nlos-bsm and Tbm and providing protection to airbases and other military installtions against massed strikes ?The poster in front shows some sort of installation.

Arup said...

Hi Prasun, You had predicted a long time ago FGFA will beusing greater composites and will be lighter than PAK-FA.A HAL senior executive confirmed this.

PAK-FA is already using good amounts of carbon based composites.In the unpainted ac the composite parts were grey in colour.Most of the wing and empennage are made from composites.Then why was such a statement made ?

You also said very recently HAL will be there for integrating various Indian and non Russian origin avionics and they are trying to re-invent the wheel.But if composites are used then Hal will be and is working on the airframe big time.

Kindly pls explain.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT.

1.The distributed aesa aperture pic you posted is that the cheek aesa antenna in PAK-FA present on both sides of the radome and facing sideways ?

2.What are the latest developements in

a. Pak-fa irst both forward facing and the one aft of the canopy?

b.What is the final configuration of the distributed eo suite ?Is it as capable as F-35 DASS?

3.By how much has the flight envelope of T-50 was extended?This time one of the protypes was performing Pugachev's.

4.What are the new AAM both WVRAAM and BVRAAM being developed for Pak-fa. Aviation magazine was reporting only RVV-BD which is a variant of R-37 was being dispalyed at the Pak-fa stall.

5.Can you pls ask the concerned Russian officials and Pak-fa guys about the various air to ground ordance and new generation Alcm being developed for PAK-FA ? ARE THE RUSSIAND DEVELOPING SDB-1,2 analogues?

Many people are of the view that the Russians are also adopting the same approach with weaponry of T-50 as the approach taken during its development.That is nt developing new design weapons but modifying and redesiging existing weapons for Pak-fa.

6.Is the S350E Vityaz partcipating in any IA or IAF sam competitions and is IA/IAF going to purchase it?

7.Can you pls ask the guys about the various internal loadout options possible for Pak-FA? Does the wing gloves meant for carrying R-73 aas many have speculated.

8.In total isnt Pak-fa going to have X-band NIIP mmr in radome,2 sidefacing aesa apertures, a x band aesa aperture in the tail cone and L-band skin aesa arrays on the leading edges of the trapezoidl wings. PLS coorect me if i am wrong.

9.What was the 2 deals signed by RAC MIG with Basant aerospace ?

10.Can you pls ask the IAPO and HAL guys when will the Super upgrade program commence ?

11.I have learnt that as part of Super upgrade which will be applied across the fleet Su30 will nt be getting the MIRES aesa but a pesa which is very powerful and sophisticated and outperforms APG-79 by a huge margin and offers similar performnace in terms of a-a and a-g range as APG-77.It can detect VLO acs sufficient distance away.Barring interleaved simultaneous operations it can outperform any present day aesa.

Ron said...

Sir,At the very beginning some Su-30K were ordered which was subsequently returned.Barring them will the total strength reach 310 once deliveries are completed.

Anonymous said...

Prasunda, is India going to negotiate for the second akula class ssn as reported by some newspaper? Thanks, regards UJJWAL

Pinkal Shah said...

Pinkal Shah said...

Dear Pierre Zorin

I would have surely joined Raelian movement if there is any truth regarding the movement
i very well know that such movements & UFO logy religious movements are nothing but sheer bullshits & such peoples are spreading there imaginations regarding Aliens and you had interpreted my question in wrong way i just want to know whether the Aliens species as answered my Mr. Sengupta in my previous questions are pertaining to this species which i had mentioned or it is again misinformation spreading by misguided & fantasies loving peoples.

Again my question remains same to know from Mr. Prasun Sengupta about his views. as such he is given many links, videos links etc to such theories & most of the links leads to such fantasies.

i just want to get clear idea to have clear direction regarding it.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Hi PrasunDa,

Did you read this .

It says foreign intelligence is encouraging the Gorkhaland agitation.


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@9.53AM: All cannister-mounted missiles cannot be tampered with in any way for as long as they’re inside the canisters. Only after the expiry of their shelf-live can they be removed, that is if they have not yet been fired. Therefore, it stands to reason that all cannuster-mouted missiles are fully mated with their warheads, be they of any type.

To RAW13: VMT. More on the way.

To Anon@2.44PM: What’s wrong with such bilateral exercises? India does the same with the UK, France, US, Singapore, Sri Lanka & Thailand & in future may do so with Australia & Japan as well.

To ARPAN: 1) Only by October, not before that. 2) On-going.

To SUBIR: 14) Only marketing gimmick. No air-defence system can fully neutralise such threats in the face of a saturated air-attack involving decoy ALCMs inbound from different directions. 1) Yes. 2) Much more capable than F-35’s DASS. 3) It is an on-going process. 4) Both RVV-AE-PD & RVV-AE-ZRK are being developed. RVV-BD isn’t meant for FGFA at all….the AW & ST guy has got it all wrong. 5) A single modular ASM airframe with choices of terminal guidance avionics has been developed for use as PGM as well as ARM. GPS-guided SDBs with glide-wings have also been developed. 6) What for? S-350E Vityaz is a MR-SAM & is the Russian version of the KR-SAM that was originally co-developed by Russia & South Korea. 7) R-73E is old-stuff. It won’t be used by FGFA. 8) No L-band T/R modules for FGFA, only for Super Su-30MKI. Tailcone will not house any AESA array, just the drag-chute. 9) 10) Delayed due to India’s financial constraints. 11) PESA superior to AESA??? Total hogwash. Laws of physics dictate that PESA can undertake only sequential functions, not interleaved.

To RON: Whatever figures I had given in the past about Su-30MKI fleet strength NEVER included any Su-30Ks that were acquired from 1996 onwards.

To UJJWAL: Not yet.

To PINKAL SHAH: Watch these:

To ARUP: Content of composites-based panels on the FGFA’s airframe will be much more than that on the T-50 PAK-FA. HAL is involved in re-inventing the wheel in terms of what ADA has already has done & achieved with Tejas Mk1. That’s what I had said & it had nothing to do with avionics integration.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Obviously, it is Nepal, since the India-Nepal border isn’t fenced & is therefore totally porous.

Pierre Zorin said...

Yes thank you Prasun for the pictures especially the last three! LoL. Wonder how many will click on the Date Russian Beauties sites after that sample he he he

rad said...

Hi prasun
There was a report that the russian pak -fa is made out of metal and the indian version partly out of composites. How on earth do they call it a stealth ac !.
Further as seen in the video of the pak-fa prototypes , they all seem to be made of metal with rivets sticking out!! , i dont understand the logic of building an ac first out of metal and then out of composites, even china did not do that. I have a bad feeling the russians are going to give us a non stealthy ac and finally call it a low observable, rather than a stealth and use our money to further their development .As you are there in maks please check out the pak for all of us here

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa ,

Did you read the article in the Hindu about the FGFA ? ( A fellow poster had already posted it I am reposting the link).

This article is nothing but BS . How much trash can HAL talk . Notice what this HAL MD says -

(1) Current Pak-Fa prototypes all metal.

(2)FGFA will have more powerful avionics .

(3) FGFA will be more stealthy

One wonders what pleasure does HAL derive in making a fool of themselves in an international air show . And The HIndu at least needs to do some research before re-producing all these garbage .


RD said...

In a program in discovery military channel it was shown the effectiveness of the mini gun (gatling type) in US attack choppers & fighter jets. Now how do the shipunov GSH machine guns of IAF perform in comparison to them. Can IAF install such guns in their jets.

I think this super hornet could have been a cheaper alternative to rafale.

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Why has the Indian Navy refloated the tender for the Maritime Recon Planes when in 2008 itself it was established that none of the vendors could meet the qualitative requirements of the tender. ? The vendors remain the same .

Alenia ; Boeing ; Lockheed Martin; Saab ; EADS, ;Dassault; Embraer and Bombardier .

Doesn't it make more sense to increase the order for the P 8I instead ?


Anonymous said...

@rad, you said:
i dont understand the logic of building an ac first out of metal and then out of composites, "even china did not do that".

you must read about chinese aircraft manufacturing abilities first...

Bhaswar said...

Sir what is the process/procedure for the integration of 3rd party avionics and weapons wrt platforms like the PAK-FA/FGFA? Does having the software codes enable one to carry out the said integration (of 3rd part components) without help from the OEM?

Under what circumstances is the OEM's help in integration required (both the OEM of the platform as well as that of the avionics component and/or weapon)?

And under what circumstances can it be done by us alone without any outside help?

If the OEM does help us in the integration then exactly what kind of function does it fulfill specifically?

So what will be the detection/tracking range of the Ashwin ESA? By ESA I believe you mean a proper AESA radar? When will its trials begin? Will it be comparable in perfomance to say the RAC-3D radar used in the SPADA2000 system?

How many Spada2000s had Pakistan procured? How many do they plan to procure?

Subir said...

Sir, VMT

1.PAK-FA was initially planned to have L-band T/R modules on leading edge of the wings.Most VLO acs doesnt have good stealth attributes in the L-band and L band skin arrays serve as anti stealth radars.So l band aesa is necessary. WHY HAS IT BEEN DROPPED FROM PAK-FA distibuted AESA suite ??

2.What made you say that distributed irst and eo suite of Pak-fa is much more capable that F-35's DASS?What capabilities over and above DASS does the pakfa suite offers ??Pls explain.

3.Will the super su-30 be getting the rearward irst aft of the cockpit as originally planned ?
Can this distributed eo suite detect and track ballistic missiles like Dass?

4.Where are the other eo apertures located on Pak-fa?Can u pls upload a slide showing all the eo and irst elements.

5.What are the differences between R77 and RVV-AE-PD and RVV-AE-ZRK?

6.If Pak-fa wont be using R-73E which is the latest variant of Archer family which WVRAAM will it be using? What are the cardinal diff of this new gen wvraam with R-73E besides usgae of new solid propellants which confers it some more range.

7.Everbody is in the dark regarding the internal weapons loadout of Pak-fa.
Can u pls ask Knaapo and Pak-fa guys how many Bvraam only and wvraam,bvraam mix can the internal weapons bay inbetween the 2 engine nacelles accomodate ??
How many WVRAAM can eah of the wing gloves carry ?

8. The modular ASM you told about does it resemble Kh-58USHE? How many can be carried internally in a Pak-fa . By the looks it seems just 2 can be carried internally which is awefully low.

When carrying 2 such ASM is there any space left in fuselage centreline weapons bay for carriage of AAM ?

9.The Russian analogues of SDB-1 which is gps guided hasnt been revelaed to the public.Do you have any of its pics or poster.If u have pls upload them. And like Boeing SDB is it having 100 km range when launched from alltitude ?

10.Pls ask the Sukhoi guys by how much are the newly delivered AL-31FP to IAF uprated over the older ones.Is it 20 percent ?And what TTSL are the new batch of veingd elivered 920 uprtaed Al31 having.

11.In the very immediate future will IAF be procuring the Bvraam and wvraam and modular ASM,sdb developed for Pak-fa for the upgraded Sukhoi and Mig-29 upg fleets ?

12.TOR M2E and Panstir have been developed with standoff PGM,arm,alcm like AGM-86,Tomahawk and tactical agm like Popeye,etc in mind.They may be marketing gimmicks but both their manufacturers claim they being capable of intercepting low RCS threats like HARM and they being C-ERAM systems.Though they may not be fully neutralise massed smart pgm assaults but when deployed in strength they will be able to neutralise the majority of the airborne threats and preventing destruction of most of the installtion facilties which is enough.No system is 100 percent perfect.Both of these are ideal for IA and IAF keeping in mind Babur,Raad,huge nos of H-3 and h4 and the export of Chinese standoff PGM to PAF.

13.Just as the entire fleet of Mirage 2000 are being emp hardened for the nuclear delivery role are Su30mki also emp hardened against DEW and e bombs such that they are able to keep on flying and carry out their objectives in the event of a high power dew weapon application like a high alltitude e bomb airburst.

14.Pls give a brief description of Pak-fa internal ew suite.Will it having TRD and expendable miniature active radar decoys ?
As part of super upgrade wont each sukhoi be getting the Ariel mk3 TRD as u have said earlier?

Pls post some brochures on now being developed weapons of Pak-fa and Su-35S.

Pinkal Shah said...

Dear Sir,

VMT for your reply

Again my question remains the same that is what is the proof or truth regarding the links provided by you of Youtube regarding Pleiadians, Out of the Blue - UFO Press Conference etc from UFOTV channel in youtube.

Is there any concrete documentary proof regarding such claims as such to my opinion all such claims by so called gathering of top military and government officials from around the world for disclosing about such info can be just peoples who want fame at there end of life so they are spreading such information.

Please give me some concrete info to get clear idea

Thanking you in advance

Subir said...

And for the Pak-fa irst apertures wont they have angled faceted enclosures instead of the spherical round ones. like Dass for reduced raar reflections.Spherical enclosures reflect a lot and contribute to the RCS.Are these interim solns ?

Anonymous said...

VMT, Prasunda 1.what is the possible anti radiation missile to be used in Rafale MRCA? 2.Is India developing any anti radiation missile? 3.MBDA offered KEPD Tarus for IAF Su-30MKI. Any further progression in this matter? 4.what is the latest news of naval mrh? Who become winner? S-70b or ni90? When will be the deal signed? 5.what about the deal of 197 light helicopter? It become protracted over years. What is the problem? With regards, UJJWAL

Anonymous said...


How true is it?

Littlemaster said...

1.What happened to Brahmos alcm Mini whose 3 nos can be carried by Su30mki instead of 1 Alcm ?

2.Is IAF acutely interested in Rvvbd for Su30 ?

3.How much A-a range improvement is there in 101KS irst if OLS-30 is the refernce level. Does it have A-g and high res flir modes for navigation in low visbility conditions.

4.If at all Tor m2km is selected among the contenders how many units will be ordered .

5.Is there any progress Rafale contract negotiations ?

6.INDRUS is a Russian state owned media.How can they report a false news about leasing of a a2nd Akula class.

7.Is there any headway in the LRSR competition in which GM400,AD-STAR and a Selex Galileo model is participating.

8.Why cant airforce order Kh-58us Arm with 245 km range and why does it keep on ordering 70 km Kh-31 arm instead of its newer more sophisticated 200 km PD variant .

9.The 1st batch of SP Rudras were to be handed over to Army this month.Has it happened yet?

saurav jha said...

Hello Prasun,

What do you think about this report of a Saudia prince threatening Putin with Chechen terrorists during winter games..?

Is Syria going to be a bigger war ? Any chance of Russia-China coming overtly in support of Assad in case of unilateral US decision to strike..?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD & VIKRAM GUHA: Every aircraft’s skeleton is made of metal & top it are attached machined sub-structures & airframe skins made of composites. In case of the T-50 PAK-FA, the existing airframe skin is made overwhelmingly of revetted metalic skin, but that is not what the IAF will get, rest assured. The FGFA will therefore be distinctly different in external appearance since its airframe skin, inclusive of the canards & tailfins, will all be built of radar-absorbent composites-based materials similar to what has been used on the Tejas Mk1 MRCA. As for the report on THE HINDU, I’m afraid the news-reporter has messed it all up due to his/her need to try to explain matters in layman’s terms & consequently has oversimplified matters. Such ‘desi’ entities are referred to in Tamil as ‘Naatkaarans’ (dramatists). It therefore wasn’t HAL’s mistake. What HAL officials had said is that 1) the FGFA’s airframe skin will be built almost exclusively with composites just like the Tejas. 2) FGFA’s avionics suite will be enhanced in terms of mission capabilities offered, compared to what has been specified by Russia for the T-50 PAK-FA. 3) FGFA will incorporate a higher degree of stealth features, thanks to the radar-absorbent composites & radar-absorbent paints.

To RD: The MiG-27Ms & MiG-27UPGs too have internal six-barrelled 30mm gatling guns. But performance-wise, the 23mm & 30mm airborne cannons of Russian origin are comparable in performance to their US & European counterparts. Regarding the Advanced Super Hornet, Boeing has also worked out a version of this aircraft with faceted nosecone as well as internal weapons bays.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: This futile ‘nautanki’ is happening because the MoD has been unable (thanks to its masterly inactivity) to prevent the IN for engaging in a turf-war with the ICGS. Consequently, since the DG of the ICGS still comes from the IN on deputation (at the rank of Vice Admiral), the IN has conspired to see to it that the ICGS never gets meet its longstanding demand for MRMR platforms. It is therefore high time that 1) the MoD puts an end to the longstanding practice of appointing Vice Admirals from the IN as the DG of ICGS & instead picks a DG from the ICGDS cadre itself, & 2) Instructs the IN to stop spending money on procuring MRMR platforms & instead directs it to plan on increasing its fleet of P-8I LRMR/ASW platforms to about 24. Only these will enable the ICGS to stand on its own feet & secure greater financial allocations from the MoD for its force expansion.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: PAK-FA will be totally different from FGFA. The FGFA’s avionics suite will be integrated in India by Indians & therefore the source-codes will also be of Indian origin. OEM’s help will be required only for integrating the AESA-MMR with the rest of the mission sensor suite. AESA is airborne, ESA is not. Ashwin ESA will have range performance parameters similar to the TRS-17/Rohini 3-D CAR. Its field trials (not user-trials) will get underway by mid-2015.

To SUBIR: 1) There were no such plans. Such plans are only for the Super Su-30MKI. 2) DASS of F-35 is used for both look-up & look-down scanning, whereas those IRST sensors of the FGFA have been optimised for air superiority airborne scanning/tracking. 3) Yes. No. 4) No such slide exists in the open domain. There will be a total of 3 such IRST sensors. 5) The new BVRAAMs are actually LRAAMs. 6) Still under R & D. 7) Similar to what’s now being carried by China’s experimental J-20 MRCA. 8) One & the same. Two is more than enough. 9) No. 10) Answered them several times before. 11) No. 13) No. 14) Still undergoing design.

To PINKAL SHAH: Depends on what your definition of ‘concrete documentary proof’ is.

To UJJWAL: 1) MBDA’s ALARM 2) Yes. 3) DRDO shot it down by claiming that it too can develop a similar ALCM. 4) S-70B2 Seahawk is L-1. But contract signature is still two years away. 5) No need to seek imported solutions, since HAL is already developing the LUH.

To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Still another 2 years away from being unveilled. 2) No. 3) Range stays the same. No air-to-ground modes are reqd. 4) About 200 units. 5) None. 6) They frequently do so. 7) No. 9) Of course not. How can anyone take delivery of any platform that has not yet received its certification of airworthiness??? Obviously all such claims made earlier by HAL were just ‘hot gas’!

To SAURAV JHA: It’s a tit-for-tat response made by the Saudi prince, since Putin had recently publicly threatened to attack Saudi Arabia if Syria were to be subjected to a full-scale invasion by the West with the backing of the Arab League. The US & UK are only mulling limited punitive strikes with TLAMs, & are not planning for a full-fledged, sustained offensive air campaign. Also, don’t expect Iran to sit tight & do nothing in the event Basher Al-Assad is ousted from power by the Sunni rebels. Lastly, do watch this documentary about what the issue regarding Syria is all about:

Bhaswar said...

Sir, VMT for the replies.

I thought that the "A" in "AESA" stands for "Active" and not "Airborne"- ergo my question. That is the accepted expansion of the acronym.

Sir if there are no A2G modes for the electro-optical suite on the FGFA and no system akin to the EOTS (F-35) then the FGFA will be woefully ineffective without a targeting pod for ground strike ops. Furthermore while there is a targeting pod that has been on display for the PAK-FA, employing said pod will severely compromise the LO/VLO performance of the platform, which means it will be patently useless for penetrating a dense ADGE like the Chinese one to strike critical targets?

There is still no information available regarding what is the internal payload capacity of the FGFA? As in exactly how many BVRAAM/LRAAM/WVRAAM it can carry internally in a pure air to air role? I don't buy that one of those center fuselage weapons bay can contain more than 2 BVRAAMs at a time, there just doesn't seem to be enough space. The fiction that was spouted in the early days that the PAK-FA will carry more weapons than the F-22 stands debunked it seems?

I still cannot grasp why we are hell bent on spending so much money or perhaps the least impressive 5th gen platform. Given that its aft fuselage has been left completely untreated for LO/VLO performance and that it cannot operate in an A2G role without an external pod it is CLEARLY INFERIOR to the likes of the F-35. At least the J-20 has been designed for all aspect LO/VLO, the FGFA won't even have that?

Or are there any plans to redesign the aft fuselage? I am not referring to the oft fantasied F-22 esque engine exhausts/outlets but just about the aft fuselage leaving out the engine nozzles (like on the J-20 where the aft fuselage is shaped for stealth till it terminates into the engine outlets). Is there any chance that we will see some movement on that?

Bhaswar said...

Sir when you say that the source codes will be of Indian origin then does that mean that the mission control computers and modules will also be Indian? That would not be a wise move, are we even capable of developing an avionics integration system like the MDPU on the Rafale or the sensor integration found on the Raptor. I believe that the said sensor fusion is based on integrated modular avionics. In short are we even REMOTELY capable of creating a real time computing network based on IMA architecture given that we haven't even developed completely indigenous LRUs for the LCA even now- as in its an ongoing process even now?

Sir, why would the PAK-FA and FGFA airframes be different in terms of composites composition? Sure the current prototypes of the PAK-FA might not have a high composite content but its laughable to assume that the production model of the Russian PAK-FA will not have the requisite amount of composites, no?

Will we not significantly delay the FGFA program by handing it to HAL/DRDO? We will end up with POOR production quality, as you yourself have stated that the QC/QR issues shall continue as long as they remain as government owned entities? Seems like a terrible waste of funds unless some bold steps are taken to ensure that HAL/DRDO actually do the job properly instead of throwing about bold claims?

We don't even have adequate number of sun shelters for the MKI, given that LO/VLO aircrafts are very sensitive to environmental factors which adversely effect their stealth features exactly how can we assume that the MOD/IAF will suddenly reach enlightenment and change their proclivities to plan ahead or to even stick to whatever they plan in terms of providing the adequate environment for basing these 5th gen platforms?

All of this just looks like a cruel jape on the people- who's tax rupees are going to get splurged.

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

(1) How many S-70B2 Seahawks does the Indian Navy intend to purchase at least in the first tranche ?

(2) Given the fact that 80% of stealth is achieved through design and the remaining 20% through composites how can the Indian PAKFA be more stealthy than the Russian as both share the same air frame ?

Thanks for your answers.

Iceman said...

sir, it true that china conducted low-yield nuclear blasts in brahmaputra river to divert water to its sides? the fgfa is a single seat fighter will the cockpit be based on Elbit systems NG cockpit? there any chance that india will go for Israeli electro optics on fgfa?
4.will Brahmos-2 have a Indian Engine? it true that Tejas have a s-shaped duct? there any chance that India will go for Arrow-3 BMD?

Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the answers.

1.I thought L-band skin aesa arrays were being developed for Pak-fa and it will go board Super su30 as spinoffs. But just 50 Su30 will be gettingthose L-band stuff.With sucha small order can the huge R&d costs be recovered ?

2.Bhaswar sir has asked most of my what i wanted to ask regarding AG modes of irts and internal payload options.There are widely varying reports of J-20 internal payload on the net.So it will be better if u yourself say about the Pak-fa loadout.

3.If 101KSO isnt able to detect ballistic missiles and is having the same range as Ols-30 how will it be superior to DASS.Dass is reported to support a wide variety of air to air and air to ground modes thus doing away with the need of a Litening type pod and has a greater range than OLS-30.

4.OLS-30 is a decade old.There have been many comprehensive improvements in optics and irst since then. 101KSO must have some sort of range improvements over the OLS-30.

AND those Su30mki now rolling off the assembly lines at Ozhar are they packing this exact same decade old OLS-30 ?

5.Does TOR M2KM use same 9M330 with 12 km range as TOR ?

6.AL-31FP produces wet thrust of 123 KN.The new variants of AL-31FP has been uprated by 20 percent.So now wet thrust is 147-148 kN. And these new ones are having 6000 hr TTSL. Am i right ?

7.Pls tell about the R73E successor which will be arming the Pak-fa.In Pak-fa does the wing gloves carry any aam ?

8.If u see the unpainted Pak-fa prototypes you will find that almost all of the empennage and wings are grey in colour which indicates they are composites stuctures.The yellow portions are made from high strength aluminum titaniul alloys. So presently most of the covered parts,aircraft skins,fairings are of composites.So exactly where will more composites parts go in FGFA ?The current 51,52,53,54 are prototypes.and so they are having extensively rivetted skins.The SP acs will definitely sport machined structures and there will be no rivetting.

9.The uprating of powerplants of Su30mki has more to do with provinding requiste power to the new radar which will go onboard it under the deep upgrade than it has to do with agility or improving weight to thrust ratio for better handling.The electrical power provided by presnt AL-31FP is awefully inadequate for supporting the successors to Bars and aesa.

10.Wont any weapons contracts( AAM and AGM,ordance) be signed for the batch of su30 ordered in Dec 2012 and in 2011.Will there be any new gen AAM,ARM like kh58 and standoff glidebombs with terminal seekers from Bazalt,SDB analogues,Kh59ME and MK2 for Su30 fleet ? IAF needs to go ahead with bulk procurement of Kh59 and 58 agm variants as these are very similar in class to KEPD 350 and Storm Shadow AS DRDO's ALCNM wont be ready for a good period of time.

Subir said...

Without the offensive weapons Su30 will always continue to remain as an offensive air sweep,air dominace fighter nd airpower projection of IAF -deep Israeli type strikes agaisnt HVT,airbases,POL dumps,C3 facilties,transportation nodes need to be done with iron bombs of ww2 design from close up;interdiction abilties of sam defended rear area logistics bases ,armour and troop concentrations in contact battle areas which will be very hot with a plethora of sams and aaa and higly contested by both sides WILL BE GREATLY DIMINISHED.

There will be huge attritional losses if IAF keeps on using Jag DARIN 2 and MiG-27 both M and UPG with the OFB produced granfather';s era dumb bombs no matter how many self defensive ell8222 Iaf is having.They simply cant jam Mrsam engegement and sur radars.Nothing short of hardcore Sead/dead assets and standoff escort jammers like ell8251 and 200+ km smasKh31pd ,Kh58ushe and Alarm will do.The 70 kms Kh-31a simply wont suffice.PAF air defenses have improved a lot thesde days. And PLA and PLAAF have deployed some serious surface to air firepower in TAR around most installations. They have even deployed 150-200 km HQ-9,S-300 clones which makes things even worse for us.

11.There is serious shortage of sunshelters for MiG-29 and Su30 fleets.In IAF the Su30 are parked out in the open exposed to the elements.Iaf needs to look at pLAAF regarding this.

Good examples are also there within India itself.IN is a Dsc in such matters.IAF needs to blindly emulate her in these matters.IN always orders all sorts of simulators for all its platforms before even the platform is commissioned.Even now there is an acute shortage of full mission simulators for IAF.After so many years of operation of Su30 has IAF finally decided to establish such simulators in all IAF bases housing Su30 squadrons. In has also built many hangars for its 29K fleet in INS Hansa.
But now IAF has atlast started to introduce sunshelters for its Su30.There are 24 flattop hangars at Tezpur,18 sunshelters at Lohegaon,some more at Chabua. AT LAST.

13.As evident during the last Zhuhai airshow they have almost done away with non standoff dumb bombs.Almost each and every bit of their AG ordance had some sort of wings for acheiving standoff range. During any major strikes againt hv targets or even the smaller ones PLAAF will be using their arsenal of standoff AGM .And here we are still stuck with those same old ones as evident during IronFist 2013 when Jaguar and Mirage 2000 were dropping iron bombs which needs to be deployed within 8 km of their target and Su30 deploying retarded ones and Griffin 3 LGB which aslo needs to be deployed close to target.

14.And IA and IAF are very content with 25 km SA-3 Pechora,25 km Akash mk1,15 km range OSA-AKM,SA-4 Kvadrat and just on the other side of LAC they are having 45 km LY-80E with active and passive seeker head options,57 km semi active KS-1A, and long range HQ-9 along with a wide plethora of radar guided AAA,7 barrel gatling gun based C-RAM,etc. SUCH A DIFEFRENCE.
IAF needs to do a lot of catching up.

Subir said...

The last thing that a MiG-27M pilot deployed in NE will be expecting are orders to strike Pla,plaaf installations in Tar in the event of hostility as it will be his death warrant and 27 will be reduced to pieces of junk metal in doing so. What is immediately required are some serious ew,esm and escort/standoff jammers,long range wideband ARM as part of SEAD/DEAD and standoff smart agm with inertial and/or terminal seekers right from 250 kg to 1000 kg ordance and tactical ag missiles and ALCM if any sort of meaningful punitive and limited strikes,interdictions are to be made within TAR. If MiG-27M are to make any contributions and is to retained in service they must be subject to a reengining and DARIN 3 avionics and mission sensors upgrade incluidng a pw,continuous RF internal jammer. Otherwise without Darin 3 they need to be phased out as they wont be able to do anything in Northern and Ne front with the gizmoes being deployed by Beijing in Tar.

Bhaswar said...

One last question.

You had stated that the R&D phase is required to teach HAL and DRDO how to design fighter aircraft, something hat ADA has already accrued? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Since the airframe is the same on both variants we will not be involved in the aerodynamics related development and work nor the LO/VLO shaping related work? So how can engaging in the R&D phase of an airframe that already exists and will not be altered beyond say the composite percentage held teach HAL how to design an aircraft in terms of aerodynamics etc?

Or will this R&D phase at least end up equipping HAL with the expertise with regard to aeronautical engineering regarding fighters and LO/VLO shaping and designs?

Or are we just talking about an inflated course in project management? When you say they are learning how to re-design the wheel its just too vague?

What exactly are they learning- as in concrete terms?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

More disinformation of the most mischievous & convoluted kind from ‘GOD’s PERFECT ARSEHOLE’ at:

If only this ‘desi’ git had bothered to factor in all the costs of the HTT-40 BTT’s projected imported content!

Ni8 Dweller said...

Prasun Da,
Shouldn't Putin actually threaten Hamad Al-Thani's Qatar now instead of Saudi Arabia since more of the current mess in ME is in actuality the tussle of power between the old order (S-Arabia) and the new one (Qatar) in the Sunni world which in turn aggravates the ongoing Sunni-Shia struggle amidst the backdrop of Arab Spring. Qatar seemed to have made some interesting choices so far, be in supporting Muslim Brotherhood and their affiliates across ME or being a Mediator by hosting Taliban but they do lack in getting better results unlike say Iran. With all this why does some Western leaders eager to lose their political capital by involving themselves in this mess by bombing Syria? Sounds more Malthusian than Machiavellian. If and when US makes a move from covert to overt do you see an economic crisis in the offing for us as a result like the one we had during first Gulf War? TIA

Anonymous said...

Al Jazeera has tasted its own medicine in egypt. i have so called friends, indian by the way, who only watches al jazeera, who only listens to a r rahman, fateh ali khan, who only watch sharukh khan, but not abdul kalam.. you can guess who they are..

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: AESA = airborne electronic scanned array. APAR = active phased-array radar. F-35 is primarily a strike aircraft, whereas the FGFA is optimized for air superiority. Had one relied on only LO/stealth for hostile airspace penetration, then there would have been no need for developing systems like EW suites or E-weapons or anti-radiation missiles. Consequently, LO/stealth is no panacea for all forms of airborne target detection b& to think otherwise means one is still thinking in a platform-centric manner, when the norm in future wars will be network-centric. FGFA will carry four LRAAMs & 4 WVRAAMs. Both F/A-22 & F-35 will carry weapons & LDPs on external pylons. None of the 5th-feneration MRCAs have stealthy engine nozzles & they all can easily be detected by airborne/ground-based IRST systems. The FGFA’s flight-control avionics & mission management avionics will have substantial non-Russian content. Sensor integration work R & D is already underway at DARE & a lot of it has already been validated for the Super Su-30MKI project & will also be on board the Tejas Mk2 MRCA.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: 1) 16 units. 2) That was the ratio of the 1980s & applied to the F-117A Night Hawk. There have been tremendous breakthroughs in the composition of composites-based materials, radar-absorbent paint as well as in active cancellation techniques—all of which will be applied to both the T-50 PAK-FA & the FGFA.

To ICEMAN: 1) Not true at all. Any sensible news-reporter would have taken the trouble to get such matters cross-checked with scientists & technocrats in order to prove the veracity of such reports. That’s what THE SUNDAY TIMES would have done in order to break a story with enormous ramifications. But since that has not happened & since this news-report has only appeared in an insignificant blog & that too without any scientific or engineering justification, one can safely assume that this is all disinformation & total baloney. 2) No. 3) No. 4) No. 5) No 6) No chance at all.

To SUBIR: 1) Two-thirds of the Su-30MKIs will have such L-band T/R modules. 3) EOTS isn’t optimized for detecting TBMs, only SRBMs, something that even the Russia-origin IRS can do. 4) No. OLS-30 has undergone three block upgrades since the late 1990s. 5) Yes. 6) No, the figure is much lower, like 4,000 hours . 7) Still under development. 8) Colour of grey does not mean they’re all composites-made panels. 10) Not yet. MiG-27UPG with EL/L-8222 EW pod is easily able to undertake tactical airstrikes all along the Chumbi Valley area even today.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: Not DRDO, only HAL. Had already explained earlier what more design work is required for the FGFA. Design work does not start & end with only airframe design. What HAL is now learning is what ADA has already learnt, but since ADA cannot share all this with HAL, HAL has no other choice but to learn from the Ruskies.

To Ni8DWELLER: Qatar & the UAE are all acting at the behest of Saudi Arabia. Collectively, it is the Sunni-dominated GCC that’s calling the shots in terms of arming & financing the rebels in Syria or the freelancers that are now coming going to Syria from the GCC countries as well as from Pakistan & Yemen. For India, any Western active intervention in Syria won’t have any direct adverse economic effects of the type witnessed in 1990 because Indian expatriates are not working in Syria in as large a number as they used to in Iraq. However, the matter could get worse in case Iran ups the ante & opens up a new front against the GCC member-states.

reddy said...

Dear Prasun,
"What HAL is now learning is what ADA has already learnt, but since ADA cannot share all this with HAL, HAL has no other choice but to learn from the Ruskies."

Why and How did we end up in this situation? Is this deliberate? or just like any other blunder we habituated to do in general?

Why we didn't make ADA, part of our FGFA business with russia and HAL?

Technology, Photograpy and Travel said...

Hello Prasun da,

Having read your comments for /ada not able share Composite secrets to HAL ,,, i have one only one ! ,, why is it so ...

Bhaswar said...

VMT for the replies sir,

So if the ADA has already accrued the said lessons then exactly why can't it pass them over to HAL, is it because there is no new project as such on the scale of the LCA which is being undertaken atm?

Sir I was not referring to the nozzles but rather to the Aft fuselage which has been left untreated. The engine inlets have been shaped properly but the section of the fuselage aft of the landing gear housing has been left conventionally shaped and will throw up the same returns as a conventional aircraft on the radar from that direction. That is the portion I was referring to, the aft fuselage leading up to the nozzles not the nozzles themselves,is there any chance we will see some design changes in that respect. That's why I stated right in the beginning that I was not referring to the F-22's nozzle design or VLO design.

Will the current economic scenario adversely effect the FGFA project? Or have the funding outlays for the project already been made?

Bhaswar said...


Deals like the Rafale and FGFA leave no scope for indigenous projects. I am not criticizing the deals given that currently we just do not have the capability produce such high end platforms at the moment BUT assuming that the LCA MK.2 project will be completed by 2020 then what? What is left for HAL/DRDO/ADA to develop/design that is indigenous- nothing. Won't we then be left with no vacancy for more advanced platforms- after all the AMCA is not wanted by any of the services and the FGFA+MKI+Rafale will serve with the IAF for at least 30 more years leaving no big projects to be undertaken in country. Won't that kill all the experience and expertise which we have accrued?

lachit said...

your posts were always interesting now they rock especially the Russian beauties lol!!!!!!!!!!!!
since Indians don't like us we can definitely broaden our horizons

keep them commining

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To REDDY & TECHNOLOGY, PHOTOGRAPHY & TRAVEL: That’s a very good question & you can get a convincing answer to this epic puzzle from only the MoD’s then Secretaries for Defence & Secretaries of Defence Production & Supplies who were serving from 1984 till 1992. For, according to HAL’s former CMD Wg Cdr (Ret’d) Inder Mohan Chopra (CMD from April 1988 to May, 1991) it had been decided since 1984 itself that HAL would be the Sole Design Authority & systems integrator for the Tejas MRCA, while the DRDO’s various laboratories would develop various sub-systems & LRUs. However, sometime in late 1991 this policy-level decision was altered & HAL ended up being just a sub-contractor for producing the Tejas’ airframe. Consequently, HAL today serves as only the prime industrial sub-contractor while the DRDO’s Aernautical Development Agency (ADA) has the primary responsibility for the design and development of the Tejas. Had these roles not been reversed, then HAL’s Aircraft Research & Development Centre (ARDC) would today have been able to develop the Tejas MRCA not only much more faster, but would also have been able to develop in-house the HTT-35 BTT & could well have developed the HJT-36 into not an IJT, but an AJT in the previous decade. Thus, as everyone can now see, a singular disastrous decision of the MoD in 1991 not only kept HAL in a straitjacket (as far as aircraft R & D went), but also created a compartmentalised & totally un-commercial aircraft R & D regime under which the country’s sole aircraft producer was never allowed to upgrade its aircraft R & D capabilities, while entities which had no previous hands-on experience in designing any type of aircraft (like ADA, plus NAL, which totally screwed up the Saras’ development), were created. Consequently, today, turf wars have emerged under which ADA’s aircraft design & development expertise is unavailable to HAL (since ADA wants the Tejas MRCA project to be succeeded by the AMCA project & is therefore dead-set against the FGFA project), while HAL wants to exact its revenge by taking up the FGFA project & ensure that the DRDO plays only a bare minimal role in this project. The same goes for the Saras, for which NAL continues to insist on being the Sole Design Authority & systems integrator & HAL thus becomes a mere sub-contractor. But with Russia’s backing, HAL will eventually prevail over ADA since the FGFA has confirmed orders from the IAF, while ADA can’t show much beyond the very miniscule orders received for the Tejas Mk1 from the IAF & IN. So intense is the rivalry between ADA & HAL that for the HJT-36 IJT in 1999, ADA refused any kind of design expertise to HAL & HAL consequently had to approach TATA Alexys for help in acquiring CATIA CAD expertise for designing both the HJT-36 & the LCH.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: Funding is never released in one go, but on a progressive basis in successive tranches as each R & D milestone is achieved. As for ADA post-2020, ideally, ADA & even the ADE should be absorbed by HAL in totality & be made to work on futuristic unmanned platforms like turbofan-powered MALE-UAVs, HALE-UAVs & the AURA AUSV, plus futuristic long-range multi-role cruise missiles.

Subir said...

Sir, VMT for the replies.

1.If there have been massive improvements in composition of composites and they help in reducing RCS why isnt the Ruskies building Pak-fa prototypes out of it.?Instead why are they relying mostly on titanium alloys for PAK-FA ?

2.Besides the 3 IRST sensors arent there also 4-6 small optical apertures distributed throughout the airframe which serve as Maws and laser emissions warner? There is a 1 small eo aperture just beneath the rear end of the cockpit on each side.Are these MAWS ?

3.RVV-AE-SD and ZRK both are derived from R-77 Adder.Whats the difference between them ?

4.The radar absorbing paint which has been developed for Pak-fa will the Su30 get them and other RCS reduction measures like RAM coatings on the engine inlets,canards,leading edges of wings under the Super upgrade ?

5.Has DARE completed the new radar,internal jammer suite,laser warner apertures on airframe,MAWS,TRD integrations of Super Su?
Has flight tests of all these integrated elements on an actual Su30 begun ?

6.Has bulk orders for Virgilius aesa based jammers,Ariel mk3 TRD from Cassidian already been placed for this upgrade project ?

7.In case of any hostilities PLA will for sure deploy highly mobile LY-80E batteries in Chumbi valley.Its of great strategic imp to them.ELL-8222 being a defensive jammer pod wont be able to effectively jam or mask emissions of its 3D survellienca and engagement radars? Then how is it possible for a Mig-27 strike?

8.Apart from that isnt there an acute shortage of all types of jamming pods .You had previously said that there was nly 1/3rd of required ELL-8222 and very small small nos of 8251.Were these shortages addressed ?

9.What air to ground ordance and AGM will the NE MiG-27M be armed with in a strike inside TAR and in Chumbi valley?
Has the IAF phased out the older Kh-29 with 10 km ranges meant for MiG-27 and replaced them with newer 29 variants or Kh38 ?
The Kh29 for Su30 are they also having 10 km range ??

10.Can u pls confirm whether Jaguar IS DARIN 3 will be a ground strike optimised MMR most probably Elm-2032. darin 3 IS was to have its first flight last month but there hasnt been any news in this front.

11.What is IAF's plan of action regarding cancellation of Kepd 350 Alcm prcorements.What are the alternatives. Drdo's SAW wont be ready for a good period of time.

12.Will Uncle Sam really intervene militarily in Syria ? Mr Obama has been proclaiming for many days now that US is going to intervene.France is also supporting U. Sam.Will it surgical Tomahawk strikes from the Arleigh Burkes deployed in Med.USS Nimitz CBG og 7th fleet has been deployed in Red Sea. If indeed US carries out strikes,will Putin attack Saudi and Iran Israel ?

13.Why does Iran sell us crude oil in Rs and nt in dollar?Is indeed PM going to increase crude oil imports from Iran to 11 mt tons for the rest of this fiscal to cut CAD?

GOI can make a steep increase in petrol prices to ease pressure on diesel.Diesel prices also needs to be raised but ina mild manner to arrest the underrecoveries.At the same time the tax on diesel SUV,private vehicles,sedans,MPV needs to be increased by a 5-6 percent or more so that people are discouraged from buying diesel private vehicles.Commercial diesel vehicles will be exempted from this tax.At the same time GOI must take steps to invest in 2nd gen celluslostic and 3rd gen algael biofuels commercial plants.There is a huge supply of agricultural waste- corn stovers,rice plant leftovers(i dnt know the exact term) in India.So there wont be any shortage of raw materials for 2nd gen biofuels and at the same time they wont compete with food products,wont require land for harvesting and gradually decrease our dependence on foreign oil. Large scale 35-40 million gallons commercial scale facilities are already being built by Dupont,Poet-DSM,Abengoa,etc. The tech exists and the it is economical,many a times the biofuel generated is cheaper.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) SP-series units of T-50 PAK-FA will incorporate such composites-built airframe structures. 2) Yes. 2) RVV-AE-PD is ramjet-powered, while RVV-AE-ZRK is not, but both have near-hypersonic cruise speeds. R-77 is medium-range, not LRAAM. 4) Radar-absorbing paint has been developed by DRDO for FGFA & not for T-50 PAK-FA. 5) R & D work is still underway. 6) No way. Still too early for that. 7) MR-SAMs are never deployed in valleys, only SHORADS & VSHORADS are. Terrain-masking by flying over valleys prevents 3-D airspace surveillance radars from detecting airborne strike aircraft. 8) Not yet. But such pods can easily be designed & produced in India in large numbers. 9) Not deep inside TAR, but along the Chumbi Valley & the plateau opposite Sikkim. Only gravity bombs will be used. Kh-29 isn’t used by MiG-27M/UPG or Su-30MKI. 10) Answered that long ago. 11) A small number (about 40) Taurus KEPD-350s could be ordered for the Rafale. 12) Wait & see. 13) Because no bank in the world can supply US$ to Iran due to the US economic embargo against Iran.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Read this:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Interesting TV-series on India's pre-/post-independence history, in Hindi:


Prasun, who do you think will be the best PM for India?

Narendra Modi or Rahul Gandhi, or same Manmohan Singh as now?

I know that a new PM along can't bring about a change out of thin air, but just asking who in your opinion would be able to do better than the other.

Thanks in advance.

reddy said...

Dear Prasun,
Why Indian Govt(DRDO/ISRO/HAL etc) do not recruit foreign experts when we can not get some expertise in our country? Atleast we should recruit from friendly countries or even retied people for teaching/training etc.
Russia, Ukraine, France, UK skilled people consider working anywhere in the world for the right kind of money and environment. I have seen so many British people left for Dubai, Middle east etc.

Even all american and British companies employ Indians very much, all they want is right person for the right job.

What prohibits our agencies to employ foreign experts?

Bhaswar said...

vmt for the replies sir,

So we will see no re-design of the aft fuselage and will have to do with less than full-aspect stealth, the IAF must have thought it over and found it adequate I guess. Still its disheartening to see that even the F-35 is "stealthier" than the FGFA/PAK-FA.

Considering that the Ashwin ESA will be liquid cooled will that not complete the development of the 1st gen of Indian ESA sensors? Are the cooling mechanisms and solutions used for X-band and S-band radars different?

I saw some pics of sample X-band TRMs too, regardless these TRMs (s-band and x-band) have been produced in country but where did we get the MMICs from? I didn't know that we had the fabrication capability to churn out even a single monolithic microwave integrated circuit?

So basically the points you have mentioned are the contributing factors in ADA attempting to initiate the AMCA project?

Sir surely manned platforms will not be obsolete to the extent that we say the HAL/ADA/ADE should stick to developing UCAVs and CMs after 2020? What was then the point of slogging through the Tejas project if not to graduate to more contemporary front line high performance fighters?

We might as well cancel the Tejas at the moment, salvage whatever we can from it and start designing UAVs and UCAVs along with separate turbofan engines. Are you saying that there won't be any scope left for an indigenous manned platform after the Tejas, that's just wonderful, we've killed an industry before it could even take root.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KISHORE KUMAR: Dr MMS is too old & cannot communicate with India’s citizens in a compelling manner, which only angers & terribly frustrates India’s younger generations. The Gandhis too suffer from this inability to communicate with the masses & are devoid of any visionary statesmanship qualities. Narendra Mody, if at all he harbours ambitions to become PM, should have controlled his tongue & desisted from launching personal attacks on others as a matter of principle. However, his ideas on decisive/purposeful governance economic revitalisation/resilience cannot be overlooked & deserve serious thought/analysis because that’s what has endeared him to India’s younger masses who are not afraid of competing & performing, but in return also rightly deserve transparency & decisiveness in governance. Narendra Mody’s only problem is the Sangh Parivar made up of bigots from the RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal etc who are have been unable since the early 1990s to rise up & grow beyond all the needless & irrelevant religious theocracy-based cacophony. For example, just see what & how the Caucasians recently contributed toward Hinduism, when such work should have been done in-country by Indians. Why no indigenisation was ever attempted in such an area? Read this, for instance:

To REDDY: Arey yaar, all this can indeed be done (just as private-sector airlines in India have hired/contracted for expatriate human resources) if only HAL becomes a publicly listed blue-chip company, with the Govt of India holding only a golden share. This is what I have advocating since 2004. For, if HAL continues to be a MoD-owned company, then it will be beholden to the MoD’s bureaucracy for securing even the tiniest of approvals for months on end that could elsewhere be secured in a matter of minutes through a Board of Directors’ meeting. It is due to the MoD’s stranglehold over all DPSUs that the RM is loathe to accept indirect industrial offsets offers from aerospace/military-industrial giants from abroad & insists on only direct offsets, thinking that these will be absorbed by the DPSUs. Well, that hasn’t happened at all since the DPSUs hardly engage in product innovations, leave alone applications-based R & D. For instance, AgustaWestland could easily offer a great deal of indirect industrial offsets to India’s automotive industry, just as GKN Westland in 1998 did so in Malaysia after the Royal Malaysian Navy acquired Super Lynx Mk99 shipborne helicopters. Such types of transformative paradigms need to be studied & imbibed when drafting industrial offsets policies, instead of being dogmatic & being ever-biaised in favour of the DPSUs due to myopic/tunnel-vision.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: Full-aspect stealth is impossible to achieve as the universal laws of physics don’t permit it. F-35 may look stealthier than T-50 PAK-FA, but the FGFA will be comparable to the F-35 in terms of both external looks & network-centric war-waging capacity, especially in the arenas of small-diameter airborne tactical data-links. Cooling reqmts for all APARs vary according to their applications, irregardless of frequency bandwidth. For instance, APAR installed on warships or on land-mobile vehicles don’t have space/power supply limitations & therefore their cooling systems can be bigger in size. On the other hand, AESAs have severe space/volume constraints. MMICs for DRDO-developed X-band, L-band & S-band T/R modules came from Israel. No nned to cancel the Tejas MRCA R & D project at all. Just merge ADA & ADE with HAL’s ARDC & all problems will be resolved. If this is not done, then ADA & HAL will continue to fight for precious financial resources as has been the case with FGFA versus AMCA. Had ADA stuck to only development of airborne sub-systems & had HAL become the prime design authority-cum-systems integrator for Tejas Mk1/Mk2 since 1984, then by now HAL would have had enough skilled human resources & financial clout to develop the AMCA in-house & the IAF would felt no need at all for the FGFA. Now do you see how one elementary decision-making error in late 1991 has led to terribly disastrous consequences for India’s indigenous aircraft R & D industry? For not only has this led to the IAF refusing to accept the AMCA, but also the timely unavailability of HTT-35 BTT since the mid-1990s has led to the IAF importing the PC-7 Mk2, while HAL was dissuaded from developing an AJT version of the HJT-36 in the late 1990s & consequently in the following decade the Hawk Mk132 AJTs had to be imported—all due to ONE wrong decision made in late 1991. And such negligence continues till this day & that’s why the MoD continues to dither over the IA’s desperate plea for acquiring 120+ LAH versions of the LCH. If anyone wants to learn how exactly one’s left hand can be used to axe the right hand, he/she better approach the MoD for all the required tips!!!

Bhaswar said...

VMT sir,

So shall we be setting up our own MMIC fab units? We'll need to if we are to mass produce AESAs. Has any action been taken in that direction? Will it be a challenge in design terms or is it jest about the infrastructure? I believe such foundries can be purchased in entirety from say Japan?

BUT that still leaves no scope beyond 2020? Are we really not going to design and manufacture any manned frontline platforms beyond the Tejas Mk.2?

You are obviously correct sir, the MoD should be able to simple make ADA and HAL do what it wishes for them to do but somehow it doesn't want to or is not capable of putting an end to this turf war. What is the reason for this lack of initiative and/or capability? Is there any chance that they will see the light of reason?

Is ADA actually going to push its self through the AMCA? Why hasn't that project been cancelled already? I would love to see an indigenous 5th gen platform, regardless of the improbability and lack of feasibility but at least the forces must be consulted on this matter. What use is a product when the IN/IAF don't even want it?

So will the AMCA actually fly, regardless of whether it shall be welcomed by the forces or not? Seems like ADA has some leverage against the MoD to be able to take such ad hoc decisions without any consequences coz here I thought our babus were an egotistical lot who couldn't bare any disagreement or contravention of their commands?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Why can’t the DRDO get involved in these areas:

Anonymous said...

Snowden Leaks on Pak nukes:

Its seems that they have lots of gaps on intel. These pakis are still making more nukes, especially the small ones. It also indicates US struggles with double agents.

Anonymous said...

Prasun - 3 Gripen were seen flying in the skies above Chennai!! what surprised me was the low altitude flying.. approx at around 2000 to 3000 feet from sea level.. The Canard wings were clearly visible to the naked eye. About a week ago they made an onward journey & today the return journey.. I'm just curious, are these Gripen's flying to & from Sri Lanka..

Arup said...


Is it true that a F-22 Raptor has crashed probably shot down over Norther Jordan near Syrian border ?
There is another news that Syrian iads shot down four Tomahawk cruise missiles on 31 August. Is this for real or fake ?But if so why hasnt Damacus been able to prevent Israeli air and Alcm strikes ?

Many are speculating that Syria has a robust and layered sam network comprising S-300,Buk M1 and Panstir batteries.If it is indeed so,then Syrian air defense will be creating a wide area denial zone and is much more sophisticated than the setup Iaf is having which has at the most twenty-five km range sam.
What are the various steps being taken to improve and strengthen the base defenses of military installtions,airbases and IADS? LRSR competition has been going for a very long time without any results. When will Iaf start opearting passive ESM systems like Vera or Koluga?

RiaNovosti has also reported Russian ABM early warning radars had detected two ballistic objects approaching the east of Med which fell 300 kms short of coast.Was it a show of force by Israelis ?

Whats the whole point of prcouring just 40 Kepd 350 as part of Rafale deal.Its better not to go for any than acquiring just a miniscule quantity.Armee de le air,Luftwaffe,Royal airforce have a much smaller fighter and strike ac inventory than what Iaf does.They also doesnt have war mongering neighbours like us.Even then RAF had ordered 900,RSAF 350,French airforce 500 MBDA Storm Shadow;Luftwaffe has ordered 600 Kepd 350,RoKAF 200. Then why will Iaf buy just 40 ?Atleast 600-800 meeds to be acquired. During the opening phases of a war,hundreds of such Alcm and Lacm are expanded as had happened during 1st Gulf war. Doesnt Iaf learn lessons in warfare tactics and power projection from them.Even during 2011 Libyan intervention more than a hundred Storm Shadows were expended and that too against an underbuilt airforce and illequipped Libyan army.

Is Iaf also acquiring anti radiation missiles in such minute nos ?Modern long range 150-200 km class arms are required in good nos along with the 100 km ones.During 1st Gulf war which is 20 yrs back around 1600 HARM were expended in the the first few days along with few hundreds ALARM.

There is another news that Mamata Banerjee has assured Mod that her gov will hepl Army set up a composite aviation base in Jalpiguri district. Is this the same airbase to be built in Dooars? What is being emphasised by 'COMPOSITE' in composite avn grp ?

Anonymous said...

The RBI and India should de-linking of printing currency to that of Gold Reserves.
This is similar to slapping ourselves.

In order to print currency for providing to the projects India badly needs (leave inflation for the time being), we need to have equal gold reserves.

To increase Gold Reserves we need to import Gold for which we need to pay our currency again.

This is called DEAD-LOCK.

Printing Money = Importing Gold = Paying money.

The net result is no more NEW money in the country.

This is a vicious cycle India faces.

No NEW money, no new projects such as MMRCA, no new roads, no maintenance of existing projects such as roads, schools, hospitals and other basic stuff.

What ever the tax money we get is being spent on USELESS election promises.

We must de-link currency printing to that of Gold reserves. It holds good to those countries which has Gold Mines not to us.

Also India should make martial law on Gold consumption what ever it takes.

we must restrict the gold purchases and gold holdings in house holds to a minimal level.
The benefit is 3 folds in this case.
1. We do not suffer loss of FX for importing gold for public.
2. When RBI buys back gold from public we also do not suffer from FX loss but increased gold reserves and in effect we can print more money and give it to the public who provided gold, if govt still want to keep the link of printing money to gold reserves.
3. when public is restricted buy/hold gold, the money they have now comes into normal banking channels which can be used for public loans.

Everything is interleaved and is complex web with respect to money.

We need Iron laws to deal with gold. This madness is driving us back and leaving in vicious and dead lock cycle.

Technology, Photograpy and Travel said...

Thanks Prasunda for your Reply


Anonymous said...

The delivery of three Gripen fighter jets purchased by the air force has been delayed after one of them was struck by lightning en route to Thailand.

The air force bought a total of 12 Gripen jets from Sweden, and the last three were scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday.

The three jets departed Sweden on Aug 30 and were due to arrive at Wing 7 in Surat Thani on Tuesday evening.

However, air force deputy chief Permkiat Lawanaman said Swedish pilots had informed him that one of the jets was hit by lightning while flying over India on the way to Thailand. No one was injured in the incident, but one of the jet's wings was slightly damaged.

The three jets are now at an airport in India, ACM Permkiat said.

He said the lightning strike forced the delivery of the three jets to be postponed to 11am on Wednesday.

3rd ~ EyE said...

Hi Prasun,

1. what is the future of LCH . what is the current project status ?

2. if China is to resort to adventurism against india , what will be Russia's stance ? what do u think ? given the recent tilt we have towards the west

Pinkal Shah said...

Dear sir,

just now while surfing i got through some interesting news article pertaining to thorium scam though i doubt the authenticity of the news.‎

kindly give your view point in this matter

Thanking You in advance

Anonymous said...

Prasunda, 1. Is MoD considering development of HTT-40 in place of follow on order of Pilatus PC-7 mk2 ,as reported by some newspaper? 2.When HJT-36 wiil be comissioned in IAF service? 3. IA floated tender for new assault rifle with interchangable caliber barrels for infantry soldiers, and also for carbine, light machine gun and heavy machine gun.if there is any further progress? Want a new thread on this topic. 4. You have mentioned in an earlier thread that IA has floated tender for mounted gun system. How much progress occured in this matter? Thanks, regards.. UJJWAL

Gessler said...

Sir it is claimed here that DRDO tested a Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) in June 2011 from a UAV -

Is this true? Is DRDO developing any SDB-type munitions?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Can a limited distant strike over Syria fulfill all the objectives of the US or it may further complicate the matters.

Anonymous said...

the latest news on our fav site:

i hope this continues. It means we will be forced to develop locally. Tejas might actually be purchased in numbers. IAF will not get $20+ Billions to buy French.

The rupee fell by almost 3% against the US dollar amid uncertainty over the Middle East and a gloomy forecast for economic growth this year.

Goldman Sachs cut its GDP growth forecast for India to 4% from 6%.

It also expects the rupee, Asia's worst performing currency this year, to sink to 72 per dollar within six months.

Ratings agency Standard & Poor's said that there was a more than one-in-three chance of a ratings downgrade for India within the next one to two years.

NEEL said...


Take a look at this (the last paragraph)-

The last time I heard it was INS sindhukirti, that was stuck in HSL, and I assume that it is a complete write-off now just like sindhurakshak. So, is it true that another two kilos handed over to the same shipyard, which cudnt even complete the refit of first one in 10 years?? Are you kidding me?

Anonymous said...

" Are you kidding me? "

you asked Prasun a Qs and you are saying to him: Are you kidding me? LOL

this is not new to u.

reddy said...

Dear Prasun,
Could you please let me know about India's Thorium efforts.
People in online forums often say Liquid forms are better than Solid ones which India is developing.

Anonymous said...

The truth is coming out slowly: It shows the cost of one attack! The pakis/talibanis have really made the US/NATO pay: what if these guys start doing this in india?

Anonymous said...

@anon September 5, 2013 at 4:10 PM

They have done this already both in India and in your country, pakistan.

In India some years back ISI infilterated into ammunition dump some where near bhopal, or some where in central/north India, and caused a colossal loss of 1200 Crores.

In pak, it is well known not just mehran base, all the pak and pakis itself are under attack all these years. The best part is your own weapons killing your own masses. Hilarious.

Pintu said...

Prasun Da , is it true ?

Bhaswar said...

Just read the news about Shushmita Banerjee's murder. Taliban don't generally target random Indian citizens there or was this something else?

Furthermore reading the comments on the TOI page reporting the tragedy further reinforced my views, hamari puri kaum aur aane waali naslein kuch bhi acha nahi kar paegi. "She deserved it for marrying a Muslim", "God punished for marrying a Muslim."

Anonymous said...


dont spread the paki style news here as it happens in defene pk site

bigStick said...

Anon@ 8:43am

You seem to be the type that likes to close his eye, ears and open his mouth, whilst bent over.

I suggest you go back to Bharat Ratshit if you indulge in judging people.

Anonymous said...

Anon@ 8:43am
defence pk is one of site where as an indian you are allowed to say pretty much anything you want (don't take my work for it, go an check). The mentality of the site is to share and to learn in a civilised manner. Its like on this site. Off course the tilt is towards their respective nations but i believe the overall aim is to rise above this. To learn, to teach, to share, to understand others perspective and maybe become friends! Hate and single mindedness is too easy.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Kindly refrain from re-posting the unanswered queries above on to the next thread. will provide answers to them in this very thread later today.