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Thursday, November 7, 2013

Where The ROK Was Right & Where India Went Wrong

As Jitendra Singh, India’s Minister of State for Defence, accompanied by Avinash Chander, Scientific Adviser to India’s Defence Minister plus Secretary of the MoD’s Department of Defence Research & Development plus Director-General of the MoD’s Defence R & D Organisation (DRDO), toured the various pavilions hosting Made-in-Republic of Korea (ROK) exhibits during the International Aerospace and Defence Exhibition (ADEX-2013) at the KINTEX expo site in Seoul between October 29 and November 3, 2013, they must have wondered exactly how the DRDO’s counterpart in the ROK, the Daejon-based Agency for Defense Development (ADD) has, since the 1980s, managed much faster turnaround times when it came to exploratory development and systems development schedules for new-generation weapon systems. Just sample the following comparative track-records:  
The Cheongung (Iron Hawk) MR-SAM (above) co-developed by a consortium of entities that included Russia’s Almaz Design Bureau, the ADD, LIG Nex1, Samsung-THALES and Doosan DST, was developed within a five-year period and entered the series-production phase last year. In Russia, the Cheongung will soon be produced as the S-350E Vityaz.
The ADD and LIG Nex1, in the mid-1990s, co-developed the 180km-range Hyunmu-1 surface-to-surface battlefield support missile (SSBSM), followed by the 300km-range Hyunmu-2 SSBSM and the 1,000km-range Hyunmu-3 LACM (below), all within a decade.
The ADD, along with ROTEM and Samsung-THALES, began co-developing 61-tonne K-2 Black Panther main battle tank (above) in 1995 at a cost of US$230 million and by March 2007 the K-2 had entered limited series-production. Following this, in June 2007, the ROK and Turkey successfully negotiated a contract worth $540 million under which a re-engineered K-2 will be licence-built in Turkey as the Altay MBT.
The ADD, along with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), began co-developing the KT-1 ‘Woongbi’ basic turboprop trainer (below) in 1988. By June 1991, nine prototypes were built, and the KT-1’s maiden flight took place in November 1991. The first of 85 KT-1s meant for the ROKAF was delivered in 2000 and between April 2003 and May 2005, 27 KT-1Bs had been exported to Indonesia. In June, 2007, Turkey ordered 55 KT-1Ts while in November 2012, Peru contracted KAI for the procurement of 20 KT-1Ps worth $208 million.
In 1992, work began on developing the T-50 Golden Eagle (below) multi-role combat aircraft (under the KTX-2 project), with 70% of the R & D effort being funded by the ROK government, with KAI picking up the tab for 17% of the required funds and Lockheed Martin the remaining 13%. The T-50’s maiden flight took place in August 2002 and by December 2003 the ROKAF had placed orders for 25 T-50s. The T-50 entered active service with the ROKAF in 2005. In May 2011, Indonesia ordered 16 TA-50Is worth $400 million, and deliveries commenced in September 2013.
In less than a decade, the ADD along with LIG Nex1 has developed and delivered three types of ASW weapons: the Blue Shark lightweight torpedo (below), the Red Shark vertically launched anti-submarine rocket, and the Tiger Shark wire-guided heavyweight torpedo).
The Chun-ma (Pegasus) SHORADS, co-developed by the ADD, LIG Nex1, Doosan DST and Samsung-THALES between 1989 and 1999, has since evolved into the Crotale Mk3 (below) and uses the LIG Nex1-developed DS-20K missile. 42% of the R & D work on vectronics was done by Samsung and 58% by THALES.
The C-Star subsonic anti-ship cruise missile (above) was co-developed by the ADD and LIG Nex1 between 1996 and 2003, with exploratory R & D work being undertaken between 1996 and 1998, followed by systems development between 1999 and 2003. On the other hand, the Ray Bolt ATGM’s exploratory R & D effort lasted from 2007 till 2009, while systems development work began in 2009 and will end next year.   

India’s Track-Record Thus Far
Since the time the programme for indigenously developing the ‘Tejas’ multi-role light combat aircraft (LCA) was initiated in August 1983, when India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) sanctioned an interim R & D expenditure of Rs5.6 billion for carrying out the project definition phase (PDP), it has cost India Rs140.47 billion—spent over a period of 28 years—to acquire the core technological and industrial competencies required for producing a home-grown MRCA. In the process a total of 40 laboratories owned by the DRDO, 25 academic institutions, 300 public-/private-sector companies, and a combined design/engineering team made up of 600 personnel had to be roped in to realise the national dream of developing a fourth-generation MRCA for both the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Indian Navy (IN).
Despite such efforts, the production-series versions of the Tejas are not yet available, nor are their flight simulators and various automated test equipment (ATE)—required for the intermediate avionics workshops—anywhere near to being delivered to the IAF, while drafting of the 30 MRO and six flight manuals is nowhere near completion. Suffice to say that without all these, the IAF just cannot initiate the process of service induction of the Tejas Mk1 MRCA, i.e. operational conversion, be it initial or final, remains a distant pipedream.  
Following a 25-year R & D effort costing Rs 10 billion ($200 million), series-production of the 25km-range Akash-1 extended short-range air-defence missile system (E-SHORADS) continues at a snail’s pace, with delivery schedules not being adhered for both the IAF—its launch customer, and the Indian Army (IA). The first IAF order for two Akash-1 squadrons, valued at Rs 12.21 billion, was placed in May 2009 and comprised 250 missile rounds, 36 AAFL-1 wheeled launchers (built by TATA Power’s Strategic Electronics Division), nine battery command centres, nine Rajendra L-band passive phased-array target engagement radars, and nine S-band Rohini 3-D central acquisition radars. The second order from the IAF, valued at Rs 42.79 billion ($925 million) came in November 2009 for an additional two squadrons, which included 750 missile rounds. This was followed in January 2010 by the third order, this time for six squadrons. Prime contractor for the IAF-specific Akash-1 E-SHORADS is the MoD-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), with Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) being the principal sub-contractor.
The IA in late 2011 had placed an order for up to nine Regiments of Akash-1, valued at Rs 125 billion ($2.8 billion), approval for which was obtained in June 2010 from the MoD’s Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC). The Union Cabinet Committee on National Security (CCNS) on March 17, 2011 cleared the induction of an initial two Akash-1 Regiments valued at Rs 14.18 billion, each with six Batteries.
It was in July 1983 that the IA finalised its General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) for the 214mm Pinaka-1 multi-barrel rocket launcher (MBRL) system, with service induction being targetted from 1994 at a rate of one Regiment per annum. R & D work began in December 1986, following the sanctioning of Rs 264.7 million in R & D funds. Targetted date for systems development was December 1992. However, it was only on March 29, 2006 that the IA awarded Tata Power SED and Larsen & Toubro’s Heavy Engineering Division a $45 million contract to produce the first 40 Pinaka-1 MBRLs.
The DRDO’s project to develop an L-band ‘Swathi’ weapon locating radar (WLR) at a cost of $49 million got the green light in April 2002, with the DRDO promising to complete all R & D work within 40 months so that BEL could commence deliveries of the 42 WLRs as projected by the IA. However, while all R & D work was completed in only late 2011, the IA is now having second thoughts about procuring the ‘Swathi’ and has instead decided to float global RFPs for procuring 29 WLRs worth $285.3 million through the competitive bidding process.   
The Nag ATGM, developed at a cost of Rs 17 billion since 1983, is nowhere near service-entry. Its THALES-designed and supplied uncooled long-wave infra-red (LWIR) seeker was only last year re-engineered to incorporate a new-generation focal plane array (FPA) supplied by Sofradir of France.
It was in September 1988 that the IA felt the need for tactical unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV). The IA finalised its GSQR in May 1990, following which the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) began R & D work on the 380kg Nishant UAV. Despite the first technology demonstration UAV making its maiden flight in 1995, the IA placed its first orders for 12 Nishants in only May 2007. Similarly, the Lakshya pilotless target aircraft, under development by the ADE since the late 1980s, entered the series-production stage in only mid-2007 and to date only 27 units have been ordered by the IA, IN and IAF from the MoD-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). And in late 2011, the DRDO promised to deliver to the IA an all-singing-and-dancing version of the Rustom-1 MALE-UAV—equipped with a belly-mounted optronic payload—by 2014. Also to be delivered by then will be a version of the Nishant tactical UAV (also equipped with a belly-mounted optronic payload) sporting a wheeled tricycle undercarriage.
After incurring an R & D expenditure of $62.5 million since 1983, the DRDO officially terminated the project to develop the ‘Trishul’ SHORADS on February 27, 2008.
It was in the late 1980s that the DRDO’s Vizag-based Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL) initiated R & D work on developing three types of torpedoes: a lightweight torpedo, a heavyweight electric torpedo, and a heavyweight thermal torpedo. The first, known Torpedo Advanced Light (TAL) was meant to be a 220kg torpedo capable of being launched from warships and helicopters, have a top speed of 33 Knots in both deep and shallow waters, incorporate a self-homing guidance system, and was to be powered by electric batteries which would last for six minutes. It was only in 1998 that the TAL’s technical trials began, while user-trials commenced only by 2007. The IN began service-inducting the BDL-built TALs only two years ago.  
It was on December 24, 2008 that the NSTL had stated that the ‘Varunastra’ heavyweight electric torpedo being developed by it will be ready for service-entry by 2009. The Varunastra, weighing 1.5 tonnes, having a length of 7.6 metres and a 30km-range, was meant to be launched from shipborne twin-tube launchers already developed indigenously by Larsen & Toubro. However, it was only on September 26, 2013 that the NSTL stated that it had completed the creation of state-of-the-art facilities required for the design, testing and prototype production of heavyweight torpedoes like the Varunastra, meaning user-trials of the Varunastra are still two years away.
Similar is the case of the NSTL-developed Shakti thermal torpedo that runs on monopropellant fuel, which can burn without oxygen and so is useful in underwater operations. Under development since 1996, the NSTL took nearly seven years to develop the engine and fuel for Shakti. The monopropellant fuel can generate 400kW of power and enable the Shakti to move at faster speeds (almost double that of an electric torpedo) and at depths of up to 600 metres. Technical trials of the Shakti are still underway in shallow waters, and user-trials won’t commence till 2016 at best.
So When And Where Did And Does
India Go Wrong?
(to be concluded)


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Pierre Zorin said...

Like I said before India missed the boat by failing to work together with this "natural partner". Given the efficiency and work ethics, RoK will forge ahead whilst India and DRDO will literally be 20000 leagues under the sea of bureaucracy!

Pierre Zorin said...

Forgot to add one word that sums up the story: IMPRESSIVE



When will the M777/LW-155, CH-47F, AH-64E and follow on order for 6 C-130J-30s be signed?

I was expecting MMS's trip to US to close these deals in Washington.

DAshu said...

This thread says a lot about DRDO's capability

Raman said...

DRDO = Depressive Repeated Delays's just so frustrating...... the self serving MoD Bureaucrats and RM really define the word "Bureaucracy"...

The difference is because: (a)Clarity of purpose; (b) Involvement of both local and overseas private players; (c) Accountability........

Well written....but will be water off the camel's back as far as the RM/MoD/DRDO are concerned...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIERRE ZORIN, DASHU & RAMAN: Contrary to popular perception, the fault DOES NOT lie with the DRDO & consequently the DRDO should not be blamed. The deficiencies & shortcomings are far more deep-rooted & structural in nature & will all be explained in the concluding part tonight.

Raman said...

Okay/Look forward to being corrected...

Yes, agree that the 'fault' is 'structural'.....and, let's look at that:

As in any Organization....the first thing to do is to form a "Vision" of what you want to Be, and achieve (Goal/Target) and within what timeframe...once the 'Vision' is clear.....then a detailed Business Plan is made covering all aspects , first longterm (Macro)(5-10yrs) which is then dovetailed with a mediumterm Plan (3-5yrs) and then finally an extremely detailed shortterm Plan (Micro)(1-3yrs)...All leading up to achieve the 'Vision'.....with the strengths (resources) and weaknesses(constraints) identified..This is Planning (mind) stage..with all the brain-storming required.....once this is frozen...then the execution (physical) is planned in detail........then finally the 'implementation' (with regular reviews/monitoring) to ensure the direction and speed to achieve the 'Vision'...

Now, translate this to India.....First we need to have a 'Vision' of what we want India to be (and by when)....then we Plan on how to get there...and, within this, if we limit ourselves only to the "Defence" realm...we need to identify what are the 'Threats' to achieve our Vision.......Longterm/medium/short term Threats.......and, once you identify the Threats....then you Plan to tackle them....Strategy leading to Operational Plans....that is what will identify the strengths/needs of your armed etc.........

I think longterm Vision (and the resolve !!) is what we seem to lack (at least in the public arena)......and the Threats and how we should tackle them.....

and, believe you me, the Threats are Obvious....major/minor shortterm/longterm......(a) Pakistan (State+non-State); (b) China (directly or thru Pakistan); (c) Pakistan+China (both State and non-State).......I think the short term Threat is Pakistan (State+non-State) aggressively indirectly supported by China and the LongTerm Threat is China (directly supported by Pakistan).........

Phew !! that's a long comment.....

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

I do not think that India can match South Korea's technical prowess for decades to come .

During the 80s the transistor industry in India was as good if not better than it's counterpart in South Korea . The dolts in South Block to satisfy some vested interests , killed this industry overnight forcing India to import from abroad .

Ask anyone in Korea & they will tell you that their competition is with Japan. Productivity in Korea is among the highest in the world.

On a different note I found this article insightful . It talks about how 15 Afghan Taliban blew up an American-British base full of 30,000 soldiers, and destroyed $200 million worth of high-grade strike aircraft among other things. The amazing thing is that despite having overwhelming superiority in numbers, the Western troops became terrified, frozen and totally clueless -- quite unlike in Hollywood movies where 5 Americans are enough to destroy an entire enemy country ;)


Karikalan said...

Hello Prasun,

I came across this piece in BBC;

The essence is that, KSA has an cash-and-carry agreement with Pakistan for nuclear warheads.

I have read it in your blog that, Pakistan's nuclear warheads being in effective control of the Chinese.

Your thoughts/ views on this piece is much appreciated.


Anup said...

Dear Sir,

IN just induct Hawk 132. Is it possible to land on Aircraft carrier?

And why we compare our everything to other countries?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Vikram Babu Guha

i am really ashamed that you say 'I do not think that India can match South Korea's technical prowess for decades to come.' This shows you have no faith over India. You praise Korea despite the fact that a country smaller than the size of Haryana has been doing wonders in terms technology adoption and manufacturing through companies like Samsung, LG and others. That leads to a question, Why so? Only one explanation is that lack of farsightedness of policy makers, companies, education system.

The Indian policy makers, companies (public / private), education system are cued to do just one thing, ie focus on making money whole sale (Paisa banao thok ke bhao).

To do that Indian policy makers are never bothered to invest money on concept of evolution that is research (if they have something they just keep juicing it till the last (like ganna ras). I remember my dad who worked at a SAIL plant used to say ‘we are content making just one type of product and Japan which imports used iron ore (from which we had already extracted iron) used the same residual resources to extract more iron and makes products and sell them back to India. We never tried to figure out how they did it.’ This thing he realized in 1960s itself ie within 20 yrs of Japan suffering atom bomb attack.

Indian Companies (public/private) despite knowing that another company has better tech or products/manpower wont try to join hands with them to learn and evolve (research & development) more together. Instead they try to do anything (hook or crook) to make money or pull the better company down.

Indian education system also doesnt fare better. Despite the fact that IIT, IIM, NIT, REC, and others churn out graduates who are making money but akin to the film (3 Idiots) there focus is on only scoring marks (Viru & Chatur & Gadha) and getting job. Those who really want to do research and experiment (Phunsuk/Rancho) do it with heavy heart in phoren land or even if they do it in India they dont get recognized or supported.

All this reminds me of a sentence @Prasun da said sometime back 'India is a refusing to develop' country. I will add another thing to it 'India is a refusing to think' country otherwise why would India have to import artillery shell fuses or for that matter why cant India get the documents for the Scorpene submarine derivative SMX 21 concept. If SMX 21 concept design is Indianized, India wont have to do 'mathaphodi' on P75I submarine line. Instead just by making 12 to 18 Scorpenes with AIP and missile firing capability we can standardize the submarine line and most importantly get our hands on submarine IPR (intellectual property rights) that will ultimately help India design a truly Indian submarine under P75I which will stay Indian forever and subsequently evolve into SSN,SSGN, SSBN.

I know Prasun da and many others will say there is no need for so many SSKs when we are making SSBN/SSGN/SSN (based on russian design).

To them i will say just one thing that first we need and is logical to learn to do hamagudi (crawl) then do hati hati pa pa (learn to walk) then chala phera (stroll)and then daudano (run). So first we should learn to make conventional SSKs then design nuke subs.

No offence to anybody


Joydeep Ghosh

Atul said...


Thanks for this great blog. It has become a reference point for most of your readers.

However, your blog has a difficult colour combination for the background and the text. Its very difficult to read long articles in this colour combination.

Can you please minimise the contrast and put some simpler ones - preferably light background with dark texts? They would be easy on eyes and I am sure all of your readers will bless you for that.

Thanks for reading

Anonymous said...

It is a good thing to introspect and course correct. For that matter it is fine to compare the deficiencies and accept it. If the comparison goes beyond that it will create nothing but inferiority complex and forever doomed mentality. Korea being a capitalist and industrial nation has very visible products. Hyundai, Samsung, LG is a common name to layman. But that has not translated to a secure nation which is threatened at will by its own twin brother the N.Korea. The real strength of Korea is not in itself, but because of being an ally to United States. And to be fair Koreans are not 9 feet tall either. They are when it comes to industry, but as a scientific nation it is just a few notches above India (even after being the most wired country in the world!). How much success Korea gained in their space programme, which is perhaps even lagging behind their impoverished northern brother. So every country has their strengths, and weaknesses too. We should learn from their successes by introspection not per se comparison.

Sreenivas R

Von said...

I think a lot of this has got to do with what Foreign Policy's article describes here:

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Korean achievements are nearly miraculous. However the same could not have been achieved in India, because here even the private sectors were self centered and involved in politics, unionism and other short time benefits.

reddy said...

Dear Prasun,

I tried to understand the Cryogenic Engine ISRO is trying to make and the performance of ISRO ones to that of others. I tried to understand through wiki but i could not understand the numbers (thrust in kN). Ours is 200 kN and NASA has got 3370 kN but that seems my understanding is not correct.
Could you please write few lines to clear my doubts? Thank you.

Gessler said...

Prasun, I have just gone through those mightily interesting YouTube videos about aliens, and now I can't help but ask these questions -

1) Are the aliens really hitting Earth with disease? Are the massive diseases to have hit earth in history alien doing? Like Bubonic plague, spanish flu, HIV/AIDS and swine flu?

2) What really is the purpose behind alien abductions of random human beings? The videos talk of the abductees returning with strange metallic implants.

Are these implants a form of biological of nuclear weapon? The aspect of some implants containing radioactive isotopes baffles me.

3) Was the Haiti earthquake and the Japanese tsunami & subsequent Fukushima explosions all triggered by alien actions?

4) What is the nature of the so called extraterrestrials' relationship with the individual countries of the world?

Thanks in advance.

Anonymous said...

The Altay design looks very impressive. I have read on some of the forums that the Altay design will have input into alKalid2 design as well. What is your understanding on this?
Thank you,

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,

Here is a very interesting news about major break-through by China.

"China to build huge super nuclear bomber carrying over 200 nuclear bombs"

What do you think about its feasibility?
What is the present status of India's development of compact High Temperature Reactors?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAMAN: You’ve actually come quite close to scoring the bull’s eye.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Actually India can, provided the prevailing mindset undergoes a total transformation. Presently, what prevails are a few islands of excellence within a vast sea of mediocrity.

To KARIKALAN: Not for nuclear warheads, but for ballistic missiles like the Ghauri-1/Nodong-1.

To ANUP: The IN’s Hawk Mk132s can’t land on aircraft carriers as they don’t have strengthened landing gear & tailhooks like the T-45 Goshawks do. One has to engage in comparisons in order to achieve objectivity-based benchmarkings. If we do not, then we will never become globally competitive.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: There’s nothing wrong with making money wholesale, FOR AS LONG AS the prime objectives of a country remain the sustained expansion of its GDP & ensuring its near-equitable distribution. Different countries have models of becoming welfare states via socialism. If a country can be efficiently run & managed just like a profitable MNC, then why not? The problem is not about refusing to think, but thinking irrationally. Post WW-2, Japan imported almost entirely all the world’s available scrap metal & sent it straight to the smelters. It did not even bother about importing pure iron ore. BTW, I know of another ex-SAIL engineer who was previously working in Durgapur & who is presently an MP & became infamous for labelling Kolkata’s college-going ladies as being “dented, painted & tainted”.

To VON: No, certainly not a lot. Instead, it is all about grit & audacity, plus defiance against prevailing odds. World history teaches us that those who choose to be a status-quo entity (like India) tend to languish, whereas those who are revisionist (like post WW-2 ROK, ROC/Taiwan, Germany, France, Scandinavia, the US, UK, Turkey, etc) always bounce back & emerge victorious within a 25-year period after battling against all odds.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: Not miraculous at all, but sheer hard work & total dedication to well-defined supreme national objectives. All those countries that bounced back within 25 years after being totally devastated by WW-2 are either today’s developed countries or are the newly industrialised entities. Even in ancient times, building an empire never took more than 30 years, be it the Persian or Macedonian or the Mauryan or the Mongolian or the Chola or the Ottoman or the Vijayanagaran. After that was achieved, all one had to do is shake legs (jhak marna) & try to sustain the prosperity through trade & commerce & achieve the status of a civilisation. Only those empires/civilisations that regressed into decadence & took their existence for granted lost it all within the next 70 years.

To REDDY: NASA’s cryogenic propulsion systems are meant for hauling large sub-sections of structures like the ISS, whereas ISRO’s cryogenic engine is meant for use by a SLV that is projected to launch 2.5-tonne/3-tonne satellites into geostationary orbit. There’s really no comparison.

To GESSLER: There are no confirmed answers to your questions as yet. Therefore, there are only theories & speculations at this stage. Talking of communicable diseases, conjunctivitis is actually a man-made virus & was reportedly a biological weapon created by China. In the late 1970s, there was an accident in a bio-weapon lab in southern China as a result of which this virus got released & it apparently lurks within certain layers of the atmosphere & therefore during only a particular timeframe every year it affects human beings in certain portions of the globe.

To RAJEN: Nothing of what’s on the Altay will go on board the Al Khalid2 MBT. Instead, a lot of Ukraine-developed systems like APS & ceramic-based armour structures will become visible in future on board the MBTs of both Pakistan & China.

To SNTATA: Will any sane individual fall for such hogwash?

reddy said...

Dear Prasun,

is it true that in 2010 upon receiving intelligence (that US with china allows pak to grab kashmir) pranab and antony left for moscow for consultations??

Thank you.

Also regarding DRDO vs ROK R&D Agency, it takes out of box thinking for India to bring revolutionary products on par with west. we as Indians do not have the logical thinking either due to the nature we brought up or we do not get forced to think in such a way because of the way we live and also because of the way we get educated. Even today we carry 50-100 kilo load on our shoulders, carry Physically challenged people by hand, do not wear gloves, safety shoes, high-vis jackets in industries, allow cows and men on roads where traffic proceeds at higher speeds, even we do not mind to undertake neglecting safety and overtakes on a 2 way lane, change lanes with out indicators, do not have even proper street names, no notice boards, direction boards etc etc. When am thinking in these lines it is not so bad on the part of DRDO to underperform.. where even we employ in-efficient people in the name of different kinds of reservations.. which we can not find in any other nation..

reddy said...

Why the Indian Govt did not do anything when the tax payer money is being wasted on IITans and Doctors who after finishing their studies choosing to go for US/UK?

In the end is it not that we end up like.. the poor tax payers are paying taxes for rich countries with ready to serve doctors and Technicians?

Yes Professionals can choose what ever and wherever they want to work and whats best for their career, but don't they owe the money that spent on them by Indian Govt through taxes paid by public?

Simply Indian Govt did not bother or did it think that they send foreign currency back home?

Also do you feel that what Patel has done to integrate HYD into India is being undone by BJP now? (minus HYD being in India for the time bring, yes for the time being, am afraid..)

What TRS party in AP has been telling that Telangana should be formed for "Atma Gouravam" (despite HYD region being most developed than the rest of the state) the same logic can be applied for other regions in India such as South India-Madras, Madras, North East etc to be entitled as separate Countries against Delhi/Hindi with the same logic of "Atma Gouravam/Self Respect and Self Determination"?

How long this BJP and Congress allow this country to be as Indian Union as exists today is unthinkable but my doubts are genuine for the time being in this volatile times.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

I agree 'There’s nothing wrong with making money wholesale,' but the problem is with people like #Vikram Guha who feel ashamed at India not being able to compete with other nations. All I want to say is if he so distraught then he should make effort to make India at par with others. But I believe he is waiting others to take first step.

@Prasun da Btw i feel you completely misread the point about SAIL, what i said was that SAIL never tried to figure how Japan did it eventhough it had capability or people who could do it.

@Prasun da no offence but you are privy to a lot a info and given your analysis you can put your foot down and try impress upon others to do what is best. Like opting for SMX21 instead of P75I, LIFT Tejas for stage 3 training. Its not easy but worth a try. :-)


Joydeep Ghosh

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun

WRT Pakistan s longe range artillery rckets peocured from China...WS1B and A100. Don u think india shuold procure David sling to counter?Seems david sling is an absolute necessity for india..Iron dome cannot be effective against large caliber rockets. And india is lagging wrt the range of rokets..Why cant IA use prahar missile with 160 Km range instead of rockets...??VMT

ROBINSON said...

1. South Korea has a world class manufacturing industry.
2. Since the early days ROK gov. nurtured manufacturing and heavy engineering firms including Shipping and steel making. They also learnt it from the best in Asia at the time, the Japanese.
3. Indian manufacturing is still not capable to produce Quality products in quantities that Korea and Japan can. Even Indian FMCGs can't compete in markets like South East Asia. SEA mart is very crucial because with 700 million ppl it is larger than Mid-East mart and even Eurozone. But Indian auto, textile firms presence is miniscule. Why? Because Indian manufacturing lacks the quality and design capability that other competitors have. A local co. that imported Indian jeeps regretted it when their customers shunned them in favor of other marks. Once there were the TATA pickups but I rarely see them as cheaper variants from Japanese and even Western counterparts are flooding the mart with newer design. There is only one answer as to why ROK could do defense R&D better than India, it has mature and sophisticated manufacturing base. A base that it can turn to for defense needs.

Another reason is the sophisticated E&E industry of ROK. If you look at history, many commentators cite the Silicon valley as a reason for the US having outlasted the Soviet Union was because of it's private sector forging ahead in the area Sci-tech . The Soviet state led military industry complex just couldn't match them.

Ron said...

Sir, IAF is now looking for private MRO for depot 4 level maintenance and upgrades of its MiG-29 and AN-32 fleet.They want to complete UPG upgrade in 3 years only. Which private aerospace Mro are capable of tasks of such complexity and magnitude?
If IAF wanted to fast track things why didn't it upgrade more MiG-29 in Russia instead of 4 and more An-32 in Ukraine?

in the past what hasMax aerospace carried out for MiG-21 of IAF?

Anup said...

Why not Bag, Borrow Or Steal to complete our never ended defense need?
And why IAF now knocking private MRO door for repair & upgrade?
IAF already told they may assemble 50 Mi-17 helicopters at it's base repair depot.

Anonymous said...

The latest test from paks nasr, was really about in-flight change of direction. They are already scared of davids-sling. All the saudi money is helping paks become good at missle technology. There have been reports that paks have sold saudi mobile shaheen I missiles. That saudi paid for the latest updrages to it as well. Is any of this true or is just western media is playing to some drum?

Pierre Zorin said...

Saudi Arabia is one of the most corrupt and ruthless of all the Arab states. I personally believe the sole reason for them acquiring top notch US systems is really to keep them in reserve to allow Pakistan access to them when required. It is a common knowledge that the KSA army and air force are like an art gallery - plenty of expensive pieces with very little expertise to use them - then why keep buying? Iran is an excuse why they get those weaponry.KSA bankrolls Pakistani military as well and thus the jihadis. I also believe KSA's acquisition of the Eurofighter had some influence in the Indian MMRCA competition.I have no inside knowledge but observing KSA and its relations with Pakistan it just seems right! Anyway mine is an opinion, Prasun can throw some more factual light.

bipi342 said...

saw this link on BR i always believed there was local support available for 26/11 and government suppressed the facts for creating pressure on pakistan what you think about this?why government always not serious about national security in report it saying about a mole honeybee and still they where not able to find them why?.

Vikram Guha said...

@ Joydeep Ghosh

I failed to understand why you ask me a question & then provide all the answers by yourself ?

I never said anything to suggest that I do not have faith in India. Though I am sure that the 25 million NRI's and the 10 million wannabe NRI's do NOT agree with me.

I said India will not be able to match South Korea's technical prowess for years . I said this based on ground realities. In 1947 South Korea , China , Japan , Singapore were more backward ,more corrupt than India was . China's economy in 1962 was 1.5 times the Indian economy , today it is 4 times larger . Israel spend 3.5 % of it's GDP in R & D , the corresponding figure for India in 0.3 % of GDP .

The World Bank’s latest Ease of Doing Business ranking states that India is one of the most difficult places to do business. India ranked 134 out of 185 nations surveyed. This is after 22 yrs of liberalization.

Prasun Da ,

Changing mindset in India is a Herculean task. I sincerely hope that all the numerous GODS that we worship come down sooner than later and carry out this miracle. Coz frankly (a) I cannot think of any other way & (b) why should we keep on worshipping them if they are not of any good .

Yesterday this great "Indian mindset" told us that Nigerians are 7 ft tall and require 2 people to subdue them.

Apologies for my Off topic rants .


lachit said...

what can we except?
a country which disregards and ignores its history can do no better.
humans as a rule need inspiration apart from khana makan paisa .
history in our country is reduced to gandhi and nehru.
the concepts of dharamyoudh (righteous war)has been forgotten
instead satyaghraha is been touted about, which practically is come and f@@k me and i will do nothing.
to force concept of "peace, satyagraha etc" into every situation is absurd and self defeating.
gandhi nehru and others have served their purpose and we are more thankful for the end result together with their mistakes (or are we REALLY ????)
but we must move forward and expand our horizons and draw inspiration from LEGENDS OUR HISTORY IS FULL OF.
many years ago i read a article where it was mentioned that during 1947 hindu women were being raped in east pakistan (now banglaDESH)and they had approached gandhi who simply said "face it"(as interpreted )
now in news we came across REPORTS of society's apathy towards rapists.
really what better can we expect

we must strive to move from common
but generally untrue information's,propaganda etc brainwashed into us since childhood
as they say "knowledge shall set you free" OR more aptly "TRUE knowledge shall set you free"

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Now even the Mig-29 are crashing. What will happen to India. BTW what can be the reasons this time, please inform.

Ron said...

Sir, Highlights Of Aero India 2013 Expo: Part-2

25th pic from the 1st one. It says,"Dare is developing dual colour maws system"

The AN/AAR-60 MILDS Maws bears a very close resemblance to the dual colour maws being developed by DARE.Hence, has Cassidian and Dare joinly developed a multi colour maws for IAF acs ?

A Mig-29 crashed today somewhere near Jamnagar. Whats the most probable cause of this crash ?Its not a big deal when a bis or bison crashes as they will soon be phased out.But MiG-29 crashing is somewhat different.

How many MiG-29B-12 and UB remain in IAF service today? After the UPG contract was signed in 2009, 4 MiG-29B-12 have crashed.Will IAF replace these 4 crashed jets with new or Russian airforce stocks ?

How many trd can sead and DEAD optimised su carry ?

Messenger said...


some 2 years back I read an article analysing the difference between Apple and Samsung.

I could not find the same article now but can summarise them as how mighty samsung is to that of apple.

even apple is having some 350 USD as bank balance it has only software component and for rest of the things such as design, development on hardware it has to depend on contract agencies which it was for developing its products for long time and whose services can be bought by others for the right price. Also it has no hardware component or R&D for which it solely depends on american/European and east asian giants. apple depends on china for bulk manufacturing, samsung for screens, japan and taiwan for chips and other numerous contractors.

On the other hand Samsung has nothing much to bother as it has world class teams to envisage a product, design, develop, produce it all in its factories by its teams. also the article listed how many fields samsung has forayed into.. from heavy machinery to the finite engineering that too quality wise world class.

if samsung has can beat out Apple in apples's own game India's DRDO is not even a match for comparison to samsung or ROK.

Its my feeling that until Indian Govt removes redtape from DRDO and allocates higher budgets it can do wonders. Given a free hand to start its own educational institutions for its engineers and technicians, free hand to create best campuses, work places and living spaces for workers, free hand in foreign recruits, free hand in paying foreigners on par with their countries wages, removing one or two IITs and IIMs from their autonomous status and brings them under DRDO for their HR needs, collaborating with best in class institutions around the world and internal auditing and admin teams for iterative product development etc..

In essence money and free hand is the key for DRDO to turn into some thing like boeing, samsung, apple, etc.

But the Indian govt/ state govts are busy in distributing election TVs, gold for mangalasutras, laptops for watching MMS Scandals, proposed free money into accounts etc.. and on the other hand distributing natural wealth such as Krishna-Godavari Gas blocks to reliance, coal blocks to others, iron ore blocks to some others, 2g/3g to foreigners, indian vultures, foreign transactions through Mauritius, singapore, on the top of keeping naive and amatuers as central ministers, removing the fine lines of party and govt etc... so many to list here.. just pathetic on the part of Indian Govt, and its executive branches, and state govts and finally Indian Public to allow this to happen..

Another Big Yankee vulture is coming in the name of Walmart to grab what ever the taxes we pay into Washington..

If any one do not believe me they can check themselves online how much transactions big boys such as Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Apple, McD, KFC make in UK and how little tax money they pay to UK by keeping EU as a shield....

This is going to happen in India through Tesco and Walmart, they pay minimal and negligible taxes to Indian Govt by showing various clauses inserted into contracts, and legal processes and in turn file cases in International Courts... and all under the nose of Yankee Blackmailing...

Get Ready for new form of East India rule..

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

From the ISRO spy scandal , isn't it now clear that the US does not want India's space program to become successful & will therefore frame honest scientists like Nambi Narayanan to stifle India's space program ?


TARANG said...


Who are these 1000 Helmet-mounted NVGs for? MARCOs or VBSS teams?

Gessler said...

Sir thanks for your explanations. Can you also shed some light on the biological agents created by India thus far?

DAshu said...

finally CBI got the due credit from Gauhati high court . hope SC also says the same but with a raider that those cases CBI had done investigation under court observations should not get void and abolish the CBI

Messenger said...

small correction to my above post:
Apple was having 350 billion USD as cash reserves not just 350 USD.

Thank you all.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To REDDY: No that’s not true at all. I will give you a very simple & elementary explanation about what NIEs like ROK & Taiwan did right, & what India did wrong: The NIEs, inspired by Japan after WW-2, chose the term ‘export promotion’, while India after the Avadi annual party get-together session of the Congress, took the utterly disastrous decision of adhering to ‘import substitution’. That’s why till this day in all tender evaluations & field evaluations, India’s armed forces use terms like ‘satisfactory’ or ‘unsatisfactory’ to describe the conclusions of the evaluations. No other country uses such benchmarking practices. All others either state that the product either complied with the specs, or exceeded the specs (by what %tage is also calculated) or failed to meet the specs. And like I stated earlier, the DRDO or DPSUs are not underperforming due to any human resource deficiencies, but rather, it is they have all, since 1956, been straitjacketed by the dysfunctional apex-level administrative & managerial practices followed by successive Govts of India. Consequently, the country’s bureaucrats, technocrats, industrialists & warriors have NEVER BEEN on the same page when it comes to issues related to military-industrial R & D.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: I think you’re being a bit too harsh on Vikram Guha. In my estimation, neither of you are being distraught, but rather are intensely irritated or frustrated like any other discerning Indian citizen about the current state of matters, despite us folks clearly seeing the writing on the wall. And like I stated earlier, within a vast sea of mediocrity, there do exist islands of excellence within India. Those who want to break-out evolve innovative ways & methods & establish linkages across the seven seas & either create their own MNCs or become a part of thriving MNCs.

To Anon@10.30AM: Kindly log in with a decent handle of your choice.

To ROBINSON: Your assessments are fairly accurate. India cannot yet be labelled as an industrialised entity when her manufacturing sector accounts for only a minority share of her GDP.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RON & ANUP: That has been the writing on the wall since the early 1990s. Back in 1991 my company was approached by the IAF to take over the complete MRO activity for the IAF’s remaining Canberra PR-57 aircraft & the IAF was then willing to supply totally freee all the jigs, toolings & even a BRD free of charge just to get the work done. But the private sector wants to know for exactly how long will such MRO outsourcing contracts will be awarded. Anything less than a decade does not make business sense. Therefore, depot-level MRO outsourcing—which I had been clamouring for since 2005, will make sense only when the three armed services come together on the same page & along with the MoD, give in writing the quantum of business that can be guaranteed for a finite period of time. Upgrades cannot be completed within 3 years. The only option, should the IAF desire faster deliveries, is to outsource them from the Russian & Ukrainian OEMs, which will work out to be much cheaper. In hindsight, both the IAF HQ & MoD screwed up big-time in the previous decade when they decided to forge ahead with the MiG-29 & Mirage 2000 upgrade programmes. Instead, what ought to have been done was to accelerate the MMRCA procurement programme & had this been done, then by now the IAF would have at least three operational squadrons of Rafales.

To PIERRE ZORIN: Gulf sheikhdoms like Saudi Arabia & Qatar are, in reality, averse to recruiting Pakistani personnel to sensitive positions for reasons I had mentioned two threads earlier. Today, the GCC is India’s largest trading partner & therefore, barring the UAE, all other GCC member-states are eager to upgrade their military-to-military ties with India. Presently, the Indian Defence Adviser from the IN who covers the UAE is based in Oman. India wanted to post a naval Defence Adviser in Abu Dhabi, but the UAE has so far refused permission for this posting, allegedly due to intense pressure from Pakistan. But the Saudis are far too sly to put all their eggs into one basket. Consequently, the new MRBM sites located at Al Watah will definitely have China-supplied DF-21C MRBMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: It’s the same old problem of faulty fuel-pumps, which causes the engines to seize in mid-flight. Out of the 80 MiG-29Bs (Izdeliye 9.12B), MiG-29Bs (Izdeliye 9.13) & MiG-29UBs (Izdeliye 9.51) acquired since the mid-1980s, about 17 have crashed.

To RON: That dual-colour MAWS will incorporate elements of the MILDS-F but it still is a long way away from entering service & won’t be available till 2018.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Yes, the US in the 1990s did not want India to lay her hands on cryogenic engine know-how. At that time, the US under Bill Clinton was dead-set against India becoming a WMD-capable state & the non-proliferation lobby in Washington DC was so strong that it even succeeded in embedding some US State Dept staff inside the Russian Foreign Ministry (when Andrei Kozyrev was the Russian foreign minister) to monitor, among many other things, the India-Russia agreement on developing cryogenic engines. But matters have moved on & the US stance regarding India has undergone a transformation since then.

To TARANG: For the SPB, who are now in charge of VBSS operations.

To GESSLER: Am not aware of any, I’m afraid.

To DASHU: Not Gauhati (as is being broadcast by all ‘desi’ channels), but Guwahati. SC will most likely overturn this verdict. If it does not, then even IB & R & AW will become vulnerable to similar verdicts in future, since successive Govts of India had, in their all-knowing wisdom, never even bothered to place IB & R & AW within a legal framework. Consequently, for instance, the IB can in future be sued by the likes of Yasin Bhatkal in any court of law within India for having violated a raft of laws related to immigration/passport-control while it was in the process of ‘extraordinarily rendering’ Yasin Bhatkal from Nepal into India. Now do you see how pathetically stupid the successive Govts of India have been?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BIPI342: There was indeed local support, but not when the 26/11 attacks were being conducted. Instead, the support was extended far earlier in the form of information pertaining to the Mumbai Police’s likely reaction-times, likely landing areas close to the Gateway of India & likely coastal patrolling routines of the ICGS, all of which are known to Customs officials. One must take note of the fact that at that time there was no coastal surveillance system & no Marine Police in place & therefore sneaking in by sea was fairly easy. If you watch any Bollywood flick starting with ‘Deewaar’, you will realise that he who controls the docks/ports of a metropolis also controls the underworld. This is because in places like Mumbai & Tutocorin, where the ports face the open sea & do not require navigating through reverie channels like the ones in Kolkata or Vizag, it is extremely easy to infiltrate & exfiltrate by sea by covertly boarding inbound/outbound merchant marine vessels & this is ALWAYS done through the connivance of Indian Customs officials who know the ins & outs of such ports & are therefore the main facilitators. I know a few such Customs officials who were always courted by the likes of Haji Mastaan, Karim Lala, Varadaraj Mudaliar & Dawood Ibrahim between the mid-1970s till early 1990s. Back in the mid-1980s after the then UK’s Mumbai-based Consul General (an ex-MI6 official who was previously posted to the Middle East) was assassinated at point-blank range at around 7.30am in South Mumbai by two Palestinian combatants owing allegiance to Abu Nidal, the two assassins made their getaway by sea through Mumbai’s docklands.

To VIKRAM GUHA: The Gods of Yore cannot be expected to help us anymore, since they have already given us all with something called BRAINS & INTELLECT. If we mortal human beings refuse to make good use of such gifts, then these Gods of Yore will not descend for helping us, but will shower all their wrath upon us (maybe they already are) for being utterly inept. Talking about Israel’s R & D investments, it seems that country has some 5,000 PhD-holders specialising in GSM technologies alone. I wonder how many India has.

abs said...

@prasunda and fellow bloggers
2 interesting reads:


rad said...

HI prasun
Depressing to hear about the mig-29 crashes, is there something else wrong apart from the fuel pump, with the fighter?I suspect that the ruskies have purposely put in a 2nd grade one to make us come to them for upgrades!!.

Pintu said...

Prasun Da, is it the fact that the US Administration is responsible for delay in development of Cryogenic Engine, where it has been alleged that the arrest in the case of espionage was nothing but was a set up by the CIA and involvement of Kerala Police also this article regarding the mysterious deaths of nuclear scientists attached to war head designing and as well as engineers attached with INS Arihant alleged CIA's hand, further should not our Government give strict security arrangement to the scientists attached with top secret programmes, as this article did mention? Also the death of Homi Jehangir Bhaba referred ?

raw13 said...

the two LCA is a beautiful machine. Is this just a advanced trainer or normal two seater?

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
Has a counter case been lodged against the Kerala Police officials by Nambinarayanan or ISRO after CBI found no evidence of espionage involved?

Jay Bhanushali said...

Sir i have always been curious about india's nuclear capabilities.
1)does india really possess thermonuclear weapons?
2)what is the highest yield warhead we possess?
3)how much is the weight of this warhead and what are its dimensions?
4)is a new warhead being developed for mirv on agni 6?
5)does india need to test again or are computer simulations using russian data adequate for testing new warhead designes?
6)has pakistan acquired thermonuclear weapons or are they still having only boosted fission devices?
7)what according to you is the number fo warheads possessed by india pakistan and china?
8)i have read that india and pakistan keep the warhead and delivery systems separately,but with induction of ins arinant this will no longer be possible.your thoughts?

Ni8 Dweller said...

Prasun Da,
One more valuable eye opener from your side. Many a thanks. This one should be saved for posterity for we have a habit of repeating the same mistakes again and again. We always lacked decisive & have had divisive goverance since inception as a democratic nation. States were not created to promote diversity but rather out of compulsion as in the case of AP where it has come a full circle. There is no binding language that a smart leader could harnass to rally the people as in the case of Germany pre-WW2. Here the one from north wouldn't be heard at south & the same goes for east with west as well. So one goes for compromise.

Here we have our people mandated leader (Head of winning party) nominate and keep himself executively under reins of person who until yesterday (& will so in future) was at his beck & call in his own party. So what good does it provide for anyone?

Has any where Railway budget scheduled, why do we still carry that legacy of British Raj?

We have ended up putting way too many shackles in the name of niceties ans decency around us that there is no easy way to tear them down. 6 years ago our PM inaugurated a Hydro project in NE which is still waiting for environmental clearance. May be nominated through RS has made our PM totally spineless against members of his political party who successfull win elections so far.

Looking forward to the last leg of this article.

Sorry couldn't get back to you on your earlier references of Yom Kippur war. Al Jazeera's show was quite insightful. Was also presently surprised by their show on seven sisters although they glossed our their share of political games. They could have done a piece on Enrico Mattei.

Also failed to understand on how Israel that has successfully penetrated into the egyptian militia leading to it success in 1967 Six day war came down to relying on bad intelligence of Ashraf Marwan in 1971? And why it had to part Suez with Egypt?

You also have captured the fallacy of Arabs when you talked of Jordan. So why Israel never forced Jordan to take the Palestians of West Bank as they mostly are like their Jordanian neighbours snd you see Arab Spring taking a visit to Jordan in the near future after lebonan?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Just finished reading ex-IA COAS Gen (Ret’d) V K Singh’s autobiography, titled, ‘Courage And Conviction’. The contents are quite a revelation & will make any Indian citizen’s blood boil, that’s a given. For instance:
1) It contains descriptions of just how chaotic the IPKF’s mobilisation was & how Indian Airlines’ entire flight schedules went haywire during the airlift process.
2) Brief explanations of EX Brass Tacks, OP Trident & OP Kartoos & how the Sumdorong Chu incident all began in the latter half of the 1980s.
3) Why Myanmar’s officials refer to India as a NATO country, i.e. ‘no action talk only’ country.
4) How India for 15 years sat on Myanmar’s offer for exploring for offshore oil & gas reserves & when this was explained to Dr MMS on January 15, 2012, Dr MMS said in a resigned manner: “General Sahab, ab yeh procedural problems hain, we are trying”.
5) Several details on the Army HQ’s ‘Transformation Study’.
6) How camels from Rajasthan are being smuggled from India into Bangladesh (for meat!.
7) How Army HQ succeeded in utilising all its allocated budgetary funds for FY 2010-2011 & how the MoD’s bureaucracy reacted to this in FY 2011-2012 by quietly transferring out the MoD’s Joint Secretary (Acquisitions) in April 2011 & keeping that post vacant for nine months, which in turn led to all procurement decisions for all three armed services being deferred for that period.
8) Why the IA’s infantry battalions are functioning with less than half-a-dozen officers when more than 20 officers are mandated for, & how the then Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar resisted all efforts by IA HQ to remedy such shortcomings.
9) Details about the BEML-TATRA scam & the malicious machinations of BEML’s now suspended CMD V R S Natarajan, who somehow managed to remain CMD of BEML for the past 12 years & his alleged links to T K A Nair of the PMO.
10) How the IA’s GSQR for UFH was reportedly drafted to suit the ‘Pegasus’ from Singapore’s ST Kinetics & how the then Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar tried his level-best to scuttle the IA’s efforts to order the LW-155 under the FMS scheme.
11) How for 25 years the MoD prevented the OFB’s Jabalpur-based Gun Carriage Factory from indigenising the Bofors FH-77B 155mm/39-cal towed howitzer.
12) How the IA was prevented from forestalling the 2012 communal pogrom at Kokrajhaar.
13) How, thanks to the TSD, the IA was aware of the attempted coup in The Maldives way before anyone else in India was.
The autobiography also explains in nauseating detail how exactly the MoD’s bureaucracy adopts various stalling tactics when it comes to processing requests for weapons procurements & even construction of the national War Memorial. And what will make your blood boil even more will be the concluding part of this thread that will be uploaded later tonight.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: Nope, everything else is all right with the MiG-29s.

To PINTU: Had already explained yesterday all about the cryogenic engine issue & how the US got wind of the India-Russia industrial cooperation in this arena in the early 1990s.

To RAW13: It is the naval version of the LCA & it is an operational conversion trainer that can also be flown as a LIFT, i.e. dual-use.

To SNTATA: Who will file such a case? Certainly not the CBI or ISRO. It is now up to only Nambinarayan to sue the Kerala Police & claim compensation.

To JAY BHANUSHALI: 1) Yes. 2) About 550kT. 3) No idea. 4) Yes, for Agni-5, not Agni-6. 5) No additional testing is reqd. 6) Only boosted-fission devices. 7) China ‘s warheads stocks are available from open-sources like SIPRI & IISS. Pakistan has 12 & India has about 60. 8) Yes, that’s true but not for S-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 SSGNs. India’s truly credible sea-based survivable strategic deterrent will become available only in the following decade when the S-5/S-6/S-7 SSBNs become available along with 6,500km-range SLBMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Here's another one for your collection:

November 7, 2013: The Indian Air Force has dished out an over Rs 900-crore contract to software services company Wipro to electronically monitor and automate the management of its fleet, said Air Marshal P. Kanakaraj, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Maintenance Command. “As part of this project, all maintenance activities done on our aircraft will be electronically captured. It is a dashboard sort of system which will replace the old system of manual logbooks.

I hope WIPRO has offered the version 8 of this 4G software package, since that's the global norm. Last I heard earlier this week, HAL was quite confident of bagging this contract (since its price offering was the lowest), although its software on offer was only Version 4.5.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Ni8DWELLER: VMT. Just to take off from where you left off regarding the ‘Railway Budget’, successive generations of political buffoons haven’t even realised till this day that the ‘Amar Jawan Jyoti’ below Delhi’s India Gate was constructed by the British to honour ONLY THOSE native soldiers from the subcontinent who had laid down their lives for the British Empire during World War-1! For the past 67 years, none of the governments of post-independence India have been able to find either the real estate anywhere within the NCR or the money required for constructing a National War Memorial!!!

Bhaswar said...

Sir last time I had asked you had replied that we needed more tests to validate our thermonuclear warhead design? What's changed now? Since the Pokhran tests were controversial in terms of figures of yield generation I thought that we were confined to using boosted fission warheads ourselves?

Which new warhead is being designed and with what features, a prolate primary perhaps to achieve dimensions required for fitting into a MIRV while still retaining an appreciable yield? How will this warhead be tested?

Apparently Avinash Chandar stated in one of his interviews that the AMCA would be as heavy or heavier than the FGFA, with all due respect to him did someone give him a good thwack on the head with a rod?

No clarification on the "IOC-2" from Mr. A.K. even as the end of 2013 approaches- which was the deadline he had arbitrarily prescribed. Please tell me that he at least contemplates in moments of solitude about the lies he's spewed on the subject and what might happen if he was called out on it?

What do you think will be the result of the latest rounds of elections in the Maldives.

Also AL in BD seems loathe to let proper elections be conducted, apparently India and the US are not on the same page with regard to BD? Any idea how that will play out?

Pintu said...

Prasun Da, I had pleasure to read the information you have provided to Sujoy regarding the Shift 1990's stance of USA to present one related to India's access to high-technological area, but my queries are:

1) Whether the allegation made by this certain blog "" concerning deaths of certain engineers attached with BARC and Arihant (in recent times) which points out to the CIA is true or whether any other country like China is linked up or this type of allegation is only made to strain present US-Indian relationship, which may hurt other weapon supplying nations ?

2. The security cover being provided to the scientists attached to these type of aforementioned projects are adequate enough / or in the degree of those being provided in certain countries or minimum/ no security covers are provided as alleged by this very blog ?

3. Was not it better to concentrate on GSLV by ISRO, rather going for interplanetary orbital mission, at this time ?

------Kindly share your views, Thanks in advance.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

(1) Re the WIPRO contract . Does the IN or IA plan to come out with similar tender ?

(2)In this Rs.900 crore contract I see that TCS and CMChad both competed . Is that allowed given the fact that both TCS & CMC are owned by the same parent company ?

(3) The US had offered the air launched Stinger missile to India as part of the Apache deal . Will India buy the Stinger or opt for some other missile ?

Many thanx


DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

It seems to me that from start to finish this Indian Air force contract that WIPRO won was struck with lightning speed .

1)Is this a one off case ? As the Indian Govt. takes years to award a contract .

2)How long will it take for WIPRO to complete this project ?

3) Does this mean that WIPRO designs better Software packages than foreign companies ?

Thank You



what will be the sensor differences between the FGFA and PAK-FA?

Also, you said the SPB has taken over all VBSS duties- since when? Does this incliude all VBSS duties in the Gulf of Aden then and does this mean the MARCOs are freed up and no longer required in the Gulf?
And why is no coverage being given to the SPB at ALL???

And could you please do a full right up of the SPB soon? I'd love to know more about these guys.

Some info on their:

-primary weapons (assualt rifles and such)
-general equipment
-future plans

would be so appreciated sir.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

Earlier this week the Wall Street Journal quoting Air Marshal P.P. Reddy said that the IAF plans to spend about $150 billion in the next 15 years for various projects .

Is this news correct ? In other words it means the IAF will spend $10 billion every year for procurement .

Will you please explain what are the possible purchases ? I understand that MMRCA & FGFA are two big ticket purchases but $10 billion every year is mind boggling .


Bhaswar said...

Prasun Sir,

there seems to be renewed discussion on SPECTRA. Can you shed some light as to what exactly sets it apart from other EW suites, specially its radar jamming capacity against jamming systems like the virgilius?

Thalses claims that it is capable of precision DOA (, is that like HADF? Does that mean that the Rafale does not need a Siva pod or a HADF pod when operating in a DEAD role? Also Thales claims features like "passive ranging", again what exactly does that mean and in what contexts (against air crafts and against ground based radars)?

Also apparently it has inbuilt signit/elint functions, what exactly does that mean (examples)?

Does this mean that the Rafale's SPECTRA can jam and deceive even ground based radars and thus it does not need an escort jammer, as is being claimed by certain posters on threads?

Also sir the escort jammer you had mentioned, the 8251, the ELTA brochure on that mentions that it also has HADF function as one of its core capabilities ( doesn't that mean that if a wingtip mounted system were in place the MKIs would no longer need a HADF.

Also when I dug up the pics of the 8251 it seemed to indeed be far too big for mounting on wing tips (pic- so far even the illustrations on the ELTA page shows it being belly-mounted on platforms (singular pod) how can it be miniaturized for wing-tip mounting?

If both the SPECTRA and the 8251 have "accurate direction finding" or DOA then doesn't that mean that for platforms with these systems the SIVA is obsolete?

bipi342 said...

why this book suddenly disappeared from india and is it C1A which really plotted this all thing.

bipi342 said...

got the autographed copy of book today courage and conviction.

DIA pay back for killing its embassy station chief?

FAST said...


When will the iN's SBTF be commissioned/ready for training?

Pierre Zorin said...

For the past 67 years, none of the governments of post-independence India have been able to find either the real estate anywhere within the NCR or the money required for constructing a National War Memorial!!! " - One word- SHAME! I guess the land would be available if development consent is given for some luxury apartments adjacent to it to host cronies of the political echelon?

Anup said...

Dear Sir,

First sorry I am asking you so many questions.

Why MOD purchasing GRAD multi-barrel rocket launchers , we have new on Pinaka. And where are kolkata class launched in 2006 but not in picture.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: What’s changed is that additional thermonuclear weapons tests aren’t possible in the prevailing international environment & therefore India has to do with boosted-fission warheads. New warheads being developed are primarily for MIRVs. No one can test fully armed MIRVs in the open atmosphere & therefore all testing will be confined to the laboratories. Only the terminal manoeuvring aspects of MIRVs will be tested through live-firing. How can even IOC-1 begin when not even a single SP-series aircraft has been delivered to date? Is there any air force in the world that begins operational conversion on prototype aircraft that have not yet been fully configured to operational standards? And where are the two-seater SPs & flight simulators that are required for flight conversion? Therefore, leave alone IOC-2, not even IOC-1 has commenced to date. Very little information has been released to date on SPECTRA by THALES. Once EL/L-8251 enters service, the SIVA will become redundant. 2-D looks can be deceptive when trying to size up any hardware. True dimensions can only be gauged when, for instance, the Su-30MKI is parked next to the F-16.

To PINTU: 1) Certainly not the CIA, but other intelligence agencies in India’s neighbourhood. Here’s another conspiracy theory worthy of being made into a Hollywood flick:

The Mahabharata Secret:

And here are more possibilities that can become part of such a flick:
Nuclear Warfare in Mahabharata:

Weapons Used In Mahabharata:

Kumari Kandam & Sangams:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) Of course, since this will be the global norm. 2) Only CMC competed. 3) It will be the Stinger. There are no mix-and-match alternatives under the FMS scheme.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: Not true. This contract has been eyed for the past 6 years. Project implementation too will take 6 years to complete. None of the Indian contenders had offered indigenous solutions. Solution-providers were all foreign & the Indian companies will only customize them.

To KNOWLEDGE JUNKIE: 1) AESA-MMR & IRST sensors will be the same, the rest will be different. 2) MARCOS never undertook VBSS missions. MARCOS is an elite formation that never gets involved with such routine missions. The other information you’re asking about SPB cannot be divulged by me at least due to my NCND commitments.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Those figures are highly misleading, to say the least.

To FAST: The SBTF is already up & running.

To ANUP: That’s because the production rate of Pinaka-1 hasn’t been jacked up as it ought to have been. Consequently, only 10,000 122mm rockets are being acquired from Russia & OFB will only licence-assemble them.

To BIPI342: Not the CIA or DIA, but most likely the TTP on instructions from Kabul.

DefenseandAerospace said...

Thanks Prasun .

1) Can you plz state who were the Solution-providers ?

2) Does India maintain an air base in Farkhor , Tajikistan ? I read that under Russian pressure Tajikistan did not give India access to the Ayni Air Base.


Bhaswar said...

So WIPRO's product in the contest is not one which has been designed by WIPRO itself? Backdoor importing then hunh, why not directly acquire the product from the OEM then and ask them to customize it, should be cheaper.

As far as the IOC is concerned that's exactly what I was asking, does AK Antony ever worry about his lies being caught out?

What will be the backlash of Manmohan Singh not going to SL?

If ADA had been serious about the LCA mk.2 they would be paying more attention to the maintainability of the bird,providing an iron bird article, providing the tactical trainers, ensuring that the LRUs are placed in a manner allowing easy access and repair/maintenance....developing training programs for ground crew staff like foreign OEMs do in order to ensure that the customer can maintain the product seamlessly.

There is potential in the LCA yet, from pylon mounted MAWS to low drag weapons carriage pods which can accommodate more munitions while operating within the LCA's MTOW and hardpoint limits. ADA/HAL/MoD could have been innovative- such additions would have provided huge capability boosts without jeopardizing their cherished "indigenous" label- not to mention the IAF would have been a happy client.

What do you think of such additions, in a hypothetical manner, would the LCA's technical parameters allow an under fuselage weapons pod (like on the SH) and the pylon mounted MAWS? Again this is a hypothetical scenario since we already know that all of this will escape the MoD's comprehension.

So the new warhead is going to also be a boosted fission one- ballpoint figure for yield- at least a 100kn per MIRV yes?

Well we will have to test unarmed MIRVs, that's for sure- should be a glorious day- IF and WHEN it comes.

Know a few journos, was regaling them with some of the questions you repeatedly pose- they were stumped to say the least- specially the bit about the RLGs from the Agni mysteriously being absent from the LCA and IN ships. Got them scratching their heads...

Anonymous said...

Hi prasun, what has changed that IN inducted and commisioned the squadron so early... was this plan in motion earlier.

And what changed the IN stance towards Dhruv.. earlier they were of the view that dhruv doesn't fulfill their requirements..

So could we see more induction of dhruv in future.

Pardon my ignorance, VMT in advance.


Ankur said...

Prasun Ji ,

I do not understand what pleasure people get in uploading videos about the Mahabharat when it is clear that it's a fictious event .

There are no conclusive evidence of any such battle . For centuries these people cook up stuff and yet fool impressionable folks that just because they repeat a lie a hundred times, the lie is truth.

fanger said...

@Ankur It is truly astonishing to hear an Indian publicly deny his heritage! While people all over the world marvel and are in awe of ancient Indian science and culture, me being one of them. It is truly sad to see that the present generation of Indians have turned their backs on it. Rather they are now fine living with the centuries of falsehoods imposed upon them, about their past! There is ample proof to prove the events of the Mahabharata. If you take the time to research on the topic, rather than parrot out unsubstantiated comments put into your head over the years.
A work of literature that has given the world an amazing insight into the human psyche and a beautiful philosophy to live ones life has been researched by hundreds of people. Places, events have been charted and documented. Start with the ASI work in the 50's, then study "The war of the ten kings" in the rig veda(the original source of the Mahabharatha)... study the research done with regards to this. As in any mythology, over the centuries, there has been stories added and exaggerations made to make the story more thrilling....but to totally deny the existence of the Mahabharatha is a sad state of affairs.
Only when one knows where one comes from can one know where one is heading. Unfortunately....India now is going in circles.... Get your heads out of the sand....Arise, awake and Stop not!

Anonymous said...

even the mere 2000 years old Christianity can not properly acknowledge everything so they have different bibles. n how do u expect mahabharat to be recorded with evidence?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

In January-February this year Indian Navy had issued an RFP for Surface Surveillance Radars. The procurement is for approximately 32 units to replace the older Garpun radars. Initial reports stated that the RFP had been pulled back, but then re-instated.

Do you have any insights on where this procurements stands?


Anup said...

Dear Sir,

Just read news

Why MOD & IA now purchasing Stringer while SAAB offered RBS 70 NG to IA with technology transfer.If USA embargo come in force like 1998 then it's not possible to use. And IA now req. to mount stringer on Mi-17 why? HAL Rudra may be using MBDA missile.
And one more thing C27-J is unwanted to USA. Why not IAF & MOD get above aircraft for Avero replacement with technology transfer.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: 1) There are several of them worldwide who specialize in such areas, especially from Germany, the US & Israel. 2) Not an air base, but a medical detachment. India never sought the Ayni air base. Instead, the BRO & IAF together refurbished & upgraded that air base for Tajikistan.

To BHASWAR: As for IOC-1/2 etc the lie was first perpetrated in February 2011 & so far no one even in Parliament has thought it fit to question the RM about all this tamasha. The problem stems from getting the project management structure wrong from the very outset. While HAL should have been responsible for airframe/platform development, ADA should have been responsible for only systems R & D. When ADA was made responsible for both, what emerged by 2001 was a solution of, for & by scientists alone, with ZERO inputs from the end-user, i.e. a technology demonstrator that would be hard-put to comply with the IAF’s specs concerning reliability & maintainability. Since then, all that has been going on have been efforts to modify the technology demonstrator into something resembling an operational weapon system via the iterative process—which is extremely time-consuming. MIRVs using 150kT boosted-fission warheads is a given, as is the 550kT unitary boosted-fission warhead.

To AMOL: The IN never stated that the Dhruv doesn’t meet all its operational reqmts. It had stated that only the shipborne version had deficiencies. The shore-based version can more than cope with the coastal SAR reqmts & this same version will also be the optimum solution for the ICGS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANKUR: If you’re looking for compelling evidence about the authenticity of MAHABHARATA, they are all here:

To VIKRAM GUHA: Not radars for replacing the Garpun-Bal, but new-generation LPI marine navigation radars. Responses to the RFI have already poured in & next the RFP will be issued. Meanwhile, here are some interesting reads:

To ANUP: The story itself is erroneous. For instance, how can the report start off by stating that the VSHORADS competition has been put on hold when the report also states that the RFP evaluation process has not been shelved? Those are contradictory statements, aren’t they?

Atul K. said...

1. Is PAK-FA truly stealthy? There are doubts being raised regarding lack of S-ducts, engine pods being metal based, canopy being metal framed, no saw toothed edges and others. Will FGFA based on the PAK-FA be worth all those billions?

2. What happened to the FGFA price increase issue, as reported a while back?

3. Bulletin of Atomic Scientist has argued that Pakistan has built more nuclear warheads than India. The number is more than 100 for Pakistan. Then what is the basis of your number being only 12?

4.What is your take on the new engine core patented by Beijing university? Seems they have finally got the tech to develop engine for J-20?

5. Indian government gave the contract to build catamaran based survey vessels to a private shipyard. The shipyard in umpteen years have been able to build just one ship so far - INS Makar. Reports say that even that happened when Government intervened. Now, where do you think GoI can go for timely delivery of products?

Thanks. Please accept my regards on the creation of this blog. Its just marvelous.

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You Prasun Da .

Can you please tell which companies have responded to the RFI for the new-generation LPI marine navigation radars ?

And which company in your assessment can probably win this tender ?


Subir said...



Does IAF plan to keep MiG-21Bison in service till 2022-24 by reducing the no of flying hours logged?Wont this adversely affect the operational proficency of the pilots and the operational impetus of IAF?
Isnt it possible for the entire fleet of Bisons to be subjected to another round of ttsl expansion ?

2.Is it true that IAF will continue to keep 100 MiG-27 in service well after 2020 as the above report suggests? Hows its possible when there isnt any spares supply available for the ageing Tumansky R-29-300 ?

3.How many MiG-27 was upgraded? 40 or 88.

4.RM cleared worth over Rs 5,000 crore for procuring equipment including night vision devices for infantry soldiers and rockets. The NVG contract is valued at Rs 3800 crores.
a. are these nvg goggles or scopes for assault rifles and crabines ?
b. The DAC approved Bharat Electronics Limited and private companies under the ‘Buy Indian’ category of the Defence Procurement Procedure. BUT, doesnt BEL possess the inhouse R&d and facilties for developing and producing gen 3 and 3+ NVGs.So, will BEL rope in with a foreign OEM or a private one for this contract?Will BEL manufacture the image intensification tube under ToT or will it import IIT off the shelf and assemble the finished product only?

5.Whats the range of the to be bought 10000 rocket rounds for the BM-21 Grad system?what will be the various warhead options ?


From when did IA start thinking of acquiring both Javelin and Spike ATGM ??Is IA proposing to buy third-generation Spike ATGM systems including 321 missile launchers, 8,356 missiles and arm the BMP-2 with Javelins ??

7.There isnt any news of Tejas LSP series test firing the Derby bvraam but theres lot of buzz on R-73E firings.Why? Are there any teething probs with the 2032 mmr on the Tejas lsp or its integration with rest of the mission sensors and avionics ?

8.Is there any news on Nirbhay lacm and Arihant going for its sea trials ?

9.With the proliferation of new gen high subsonic and supersonic ashms, isnt it imperative to install any of the latest missile based anti missile ,ciws on principal IN combatants like VL-MICA,Vl-IRIS or Kashtan-M.The basic Barak-1 12 km range missile interceptor has become old unless Rafale has subjected it to some block upgrades with new seekers and a solid rocket propellant.Will DAC ever clear the deal for 262 Baraks-1 which are required urgently by IN.

Gessler said...

Sir, who do you think are the persons or organisations involved in the recent killing of Haqqani network leader naseruddin haqqani ?

THINKER said...


Will the iA's new Mountain brgade in the East be given sufficent air lift assets both rotary and fixed wing? i know about the C-130Js to be based in WB but will new ALHs, CH-47Fs and MI-17-V5s be purchased specifically for this command?


Dear Prasun,
May you plz. tell whether India procured Mig 29K for Indian Navy have the same problem of faulty fuel problem???If yes I feel India chose to commit the mistake knowingly as usual like a kid.

Atul K. said...

Dear Prasun,

Is this true? This news reports seems least..

Iceman said...

sir, it true that there is a delay in BARAK-8 induction for IAF and Navy and barak-8 failed to meet the user's expectations? Indian Navy has something like US marines? it true that SAAB RBS70 NG is the frontrunner in VSHORADS deal?

isma1 said...

why i ashura banned in Indian held Khasmir?

Keshav said...

Any update on LCH?

Anonymous said...

Two reasons.
In the name of Ashura, some terrorists mingle with the Shia mourners and then attack the security forces. So when security forces retaliate many innocent get killed and this is what the guys who are involved in violence wanted. This was told by one of my Shia Kashmiri friend.
Secondly, Shias are slightly pro-India compared to their Sunni hardliners. Some of the Shia leaders got killed by Anti-India separatists.
With the arrival of LeT and other Pakistani based terrorists elements want to project Kashmir has a problem and they will attack Shia.
So in order to avoid any blood shed, it is better to ban the Ashura itself. I know it is mourning moment for Shia muslims, but one cannot feel safe under Sunni extremism.

Read today's news about Bomb blast in Iraq - around 45 Shias lost their lives. Really touching story by a worshiper..
Peaceful people... eaahhh


DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Earlier this year in January , Indian MoD has issued a Request for Technical and Commercial Proposal for Procurement of Surface Surveillance Radars (SSR)
to Nova Integrated Systems Limited.

MoD intended to purchase 31 SSR and 1 COTS based Training Simulator .

Has Nova Integrated Systems Limited already supplied these radars or will MoD issue a fresh RFP ?


Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

In reply to the question on Wipro winning the IAF contract you have said that Solution-providers were all foreign & the Indian companies will only customize them.

Kindly explain if possible as to What those skills are that foreign Solution Providers have and Indian companies don't.

Thanks ,


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ATUL K: VMT. 1) What you’re referring to is passive stealth characteristics. The T-50 PAK-FA is also destined to incorporate a few active stealth features, on which R & D is still underway. These features will also find their wau on board the FGFA. 2) It is still too early to arrive at a firm figure on total programme costs for the FGFA since presently only the R & D phased has been funded. Consequently, all other figures being splashed around like that of per-unit acquisition coats are totally speculator. 3) From what empirical scientific data are such magazines deriving their calculations? Do they ever spell them out? Or are such magazines such parroting the arguments being made by the non-proliferation ayatollahs? 4) It should not come as a surprised at all, given the kind of R & D funds poured into such projects. The same goes for UAVs as well & recently China decided to create a dedicated industrial park solely for developing the full spectrum of UAV technologies. I only wish the technocrats of DRDO & Govt of India can learn from, such examples. 5) That’s because that shipyard—ABG Shipyard—has gone broke & has even reportedly failed to pay the salaries of its employees. 6) That is a totally erroneous story & does the reflect the present-day situation. The problems highlighted in that report existed 3 years ago & have long since been resolved. This is where the Defence Minister must step in & formally complain to the Editors of such ‘desi’ newspapers & warn them against spreading unsubstantiated rumours.

To VIKRAM GUHA: OEMs like EADS/Cassidian of Germany, Consilium of Sweden, Reutech of South Africa, TERMA of Denmark, the Anglo-American KELVIN HUGHES, Raytheon, & IAI/ELTA. Such radars were previously supplied by both Consilium & TERMA & the former’s radars are on the P-17 FFGs & P-15A DDGs.

To SUBIR: 1) Of course it will. The TTSLs of MiG-21 Bisons cannot be extended anymore. 2) No, the MiG-27Ms will start being decommissioned from 2017 & this process will end in 2020. 3) 40. 4) The RM who chairs the DAC cleared those proposals for only the next 5 years. Now the Defence Procurement Board will have to clear them on an annual basis. A) They’re NVDs, not NVGs. B) All image intensifiers & FPAs are imported, be it for NVGs or ATGMs. BEL imports them from Sofradir of France. 5) Effective range is 35km. 6) That is a rumour & there’s no truth to it. 7) Firing is very easily done. Whether or not the AAM is cued by HMDS is a totally different matter. And so far no IAF-specified BVRAAM has been integrated. 8) None. 9) The IN in the foreseeable future will face threats from only subsonic ASCMs & for that the Barak-1 is more than enough. Barak-2 will take care of supersonic ASCMs. DAC never clears anjnual procurements. Only the DPB does.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: Most probably the Afghan secret service in collusion with the TTP, in retaliation for the arrest of Lateef Mehsud.

To THINKER: Not Brigade, but Corps. Yes, adequate airlift assets will be allocated, especially helicopters.

To SOUBHAGYA: No, the RD-33-3 & RD-33MK turbofans on the MiG-29UPG & MiG-29K don’t have any such problems since they use FADEC. The RD-33s on MiG-29B-12s don’t have FADEC.

To ICEMAN: 1) That is a totally erroneous story & does the reflect the present-day situation. The problems highlighted in that report existed 3 years ago & have long since been resolved. This is where the Defence Minister must step in & formally complain to the Editors of such ‘desi’ newspapers & warn them against spreading unsubstantiated rumours. 2) Not yet. 3) No.

To KESHAV: No. The TD-3, meant to be the definitive prototype, was expected to be rolled out by the year’s end, as per HAL.

To DEFENCE & AEROSPACE: SSR is the same as the LPI marine navigation radar. The main roles of such radars are search & track of sea-based targets as well as detection & scanning of nearby landmasses, if any.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Put simply, what the foreign OEMs have are patented technologies & solutions. Indian OEMs don’t & therefore cannot offer the umbrella solutions. The latter therefore has to team up with the former.

Pierre Zorin said...

Anon 8:41 - are you for real? Do you know how many archeological evidence is unearthed not by Christians but Israelis? Besides Christianity may be 2000 year old but prior to calling post Christ era as Christianity it existed as Judaism - which still does exist and the MANY BIBLES you call it - refers to versions - I am sure you would prefer reading Shakespeare in modern English than the original old English!

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You Prasun Da .

Since Terma had already supplied the SSR previously , why doesn't the MoD buy directly from Terma instead of going for an RFI all over again?

Also , is DRDO or BEL applying for this SSR RFI ?


DefenseandAerospace said...

Hi Prasun ,

Appreciate your answer .

Since , foreign OEM's will have to tie up with an Indian Company , with which Indian Companies are Consilium , Raytheon and Kelvin Hughes tying up ?

I recon the rest of the foreign OEM's have the following tie ups :

Nova Integrated System Terma

Mahindra Defence Systems Elta

Tata Power SEIndra

Broadcast Engineering Consultants India Rosoboronexport

Data Patterns Reutech

Larsen & Toubro EADS

Bharat Electronics DRDO

Thanks ,

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

(1) Rajeev Sharma has written in First Post that India would place order with Russia for the construction of another nuclear submarine . Is this true ?

(2) Rear Admiral Atul Kumar Jain, Flag Officer Commanding in Chief, Eastern Naval Command stated that by 2020 the IN will have 200 ships . Is this achievable given our financial constraints ?



Keshav said...

@ Prasun K. Sengupta, thanks for answering my query on LCH.

Vikrant said...

prasun sir,
a few questions
1)although IN modernization has china in mind what is the reaction of pak navy post pns alamgir no new assets although they have AIP equipped SSK.
2)Will merging DPSUs and related DRDO labs into one entity help in clearing the mess
3)your assessment of the COIN operations in kashmir especially incidents this year

Amardeep said...

hello sir,

What will be the number of Mig 29k that will be carried on INS vikramaditya? Some news reports say 16 or 24.

Comparing to chinese aircraft carrier does it performs well in terms of fire power ?

why there is no air defence SAM and CIWS currently on INS vikramaditya after nearly 2.35 Billion dollars spent.


Anonymous said...

@Pierrw Zorin

Thanks for your explanation. Seems you feel offended for even slight provocation/questioning.

I was answering to Ankur as he straight away taken for granted to refer Mahabharatha as a fictional one.

I was not questioning the authenticity of the Bible or Christianity. You said yourself, that Israelis unearthed evidences. Yes, if just some few 2000+ years history is being retold piece by piece, I was asking him how come he expects Mahabharata to be shown in front of his 52 inch 3D TV? and as no one could, he simply declared Mahabarata as a fictional one.

Yes, Christianity is 2013 years old. you can not go back, as anyone can go back upto the creation/evolution/existence of life/universe as their own.

How stable are we? in dealing/answering until one is questioned onto their views/believes?

If anyone wants a name to be carried with this post let me name myself as SeekerOfTruth

Gessler said...

Sir a retired IN Sea Harrier pilot has informed that ALH Dhruvs will replace all Chetaks in Indian Navy service.

Is he correct?

Atul K said...

Dear Prasun,

1. Can you please clarify, in detail, this whole business of Transfer of Technology (ToT)? How is it that with ToT we can make FH77B guns but cannot make Sukhoi 30MKI? In Su-30MKI, didn't we get deep TOT agreement with Sukhoi OKB? In one of the interviews, a guy from HAL had mentioned that HAL Koraput had even started manufacturing Single Crystal Blades after ToT? So why we keep doing agreements with Irkut for few more Sukhois? Do we have to pay any royalty to them? How much and how long?

2. Will we be able to export FH77B/39 caliber guns, if we wanted and if there was demand?

3. How does ToT work in joint ventures like FGFA?

4. How come China is able to re-engineer any and every product or sub-systems and then starts exporting them even? They copied French SHORAD but that did not stop Eurocopter from co-developing helicopters with them. While Indian experts keep mentioning that we cannot violate technology agreements? Why this fear?

5. How far has the MRTA project reached? Will India be able to export MRTA aircraft on its own, if there is demand (with western engines), without Russian involvement?

6. As you keep mentioning that there is a severe scarcity of MROs in India? Why are private companies not opening them? Is it very difficult to get permissions? You yourself opened in Myanmar, why not in India? BTW did Sukhoi complete developing its MRO in India?

7. How come Indian Navy is not looking at new ship designs like catamaran, trimaran, SWATH etc. They have more space, create less disorientation and nausea, are very fast and can do a lot many things. US Navy is inducting them as High Speed Logistic Vehicles and also looking at developing a High Speed Destroyer, in addition with LCS Class. Another example is the success of Type 022 Houbei class FAC-M of China. Then it becomes bit idiotic to stick with conventional ship design and not experiment in new equipment development for naval warfare. What do you think?

Thanks a lot for your answers in advance.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: Because that’s what the DPP regulations mandate. The situation is quite complex, I’ll have to admit, since the DPP itself has undergone three iterations & still continues to perceived as being inadequate by several IEMs, both India-based & foreign. Complicating matters further are the financial discretionary powers given to various theatre commanders of all three armed services, due to which all theatre commands of the IA, IN & IAF frequently issue RFPs & tenders for what ought to be common-user items like NVDs, NVGs, MMGs, HMGs, sniper rifles, RHIBs, etc. Consequently, the end-result is utter lack of standardisation & complicated/duplicated product-support logistics—all of which can only result in high levels of unserviceability after the product warranty period expires. As far as naval hardware goes, there ought to be standardisation in areas like bridge equipment, combat management system, integrated platform management system, battle damage control system, internal communications system, marine navigation/surface search radars, SATCOM comms hardware, & inertial navigation system. Instead, rampant duplications prevail. For instance, while one class of warships come with Raytheon/Anschutz bridge equipment, another comes with Northrop Grumman-built hardware. The same’s now the case with marine navigation/surface search radars. So far, the DRDO/BEL combine has failed to develop a LPI marine navigation/surface search radar, although a technology demonstrator was shown during Aero India 2005.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: Consilium, Raytheon & Kelvin Hughes have teamed up with some Mumbai-based private companies that specialise in marine equipment MRO, like Elcon Marine & the like.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: 1) That’s pure speculation. Instead, talks will be held regarding the earlier Russian proposal for a SSN version of the Arihant SSGN. But these talks are still at the exploratory level & nothing serious will emerge too soon, since the IN continues to prefer the Barracuda SSN proposal from DCNS of France. 2) Of course that’s possible if one includes into the list the 80 Solas Marine-built fast intervention vessels.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRANT: 1) IN’s force modernisation is not China-driven, just as the PLA Navy’s force modernisation ain’t India-centric. IN’s maritime awareness domain remains the IOR & consequently, the IN will be keenly watching the naval warfare capabilities of countries within the IOR, stretching from the Persian Gulf right up to the Malacca Straits. Even with AIP-equipped SSKs, the PN will not have any credible force projection capabilities & will instead at best be employed only for enforcing maritime exclusion ones along Pakistan’s EEZ. 2) No, that won’t clear up the mess at all, since it does not address the root-cause of the mess, i.e. the dysfunctional decision-making processes prevailing within both the MoD & the armed forces HQs. Will expand u[on that soon in a brand-new thread. 3) COIN operations have been quite successful, although they can never be 100% fool-proof. Both the counter-infiltration & counter-insurgency grids continue to function optimally, as evidenced by recent successful operations mounted by the IA against infiltrators from across the LoC.

To AMARDEEP: 16 is the number of MiG-29Ks on board. 24 is the total number of aircraft (fixed-wing & helicopters) on board. In terms of capabilities, both the INS Vikramaditya & Liaoning are comparable, although the Liaoning continues to be employed primarily as a training platform & this will continue to be the case at least for the next four years. Secondly, the J-15s are still not fully certified as fully armed operational platforms & have yet to be seen taking off & landing with full weapons loads. In comparison, the Vikramaditya from late 2014 will become a declared operational platform housing fully armed MiG-29Ks. AK-630Ms & Barak-2 LR-SAMs will be installed on INS Vikramaditya after the vessel arrives in India.

To GESSLER: Not true at all. The ones that will replace the SA.316B Alouette IIIs will be the 4.24-tonne twin-engined helicopters, 56 of which will be acquired by the IN.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ATUL K: 1) Full ToT is only possible when the IPRs of any weapon system are ‘shared’ by the OEM with the buyer country & the latter has access to all the product engineering blueprints, as in case of the FH-77B. IN case of the Class 209/Type 1500 SSK, all blueprints were supplied only for the hull, torpedo tubes, transmission shaft, propellers along with precision welding technologies & hardware. For the rest, like combat management system, platform management system, battle damage control system, sonar suite, comms suite, diesel engines, batteries, periscopes & weapons, there was no ToT & consequently all these had to be imported off-the-shelf. Similarly for Su-30MKI, Russia did not agree to the indigenous licenced-manufacture by HAL of the AL-31FP’s engine core & afterburners. Even the source-code for the RLSU-30MK ‘Bars’ PESA-MMR were not shared with the IAF. Then there’s the question of economy, i.e. whether it is economically justified to acquire the ToT for locally manufacturing items like titanium-made airframe structures or cockpit canopy transparencies, which are reqd in only limited numbers. Therefore, the bottomline is that it is far cheaper to import the titanium & other sheet metal from Russia & just have them machined locally. 2) No, OFB is forbidden to export any locally-made FH-77B as per the terms of the contract inked between Bofors AB & the MoD in April 1986. In any case, the demand from abroad today is for such howitzers that are truck-mounted & are not towed. 3) It will work in the same way as it has worked for the Su-30MKI, but with some enhancements that will allow India to tinker with the design to enable it to accept non-Russian avionics & accessories. 4) China is able to do all this due to clarity of thought of its apex-level decision-makers. China never copied any SHORADS design. Back in the mid-1980s right up to 1990, France sold the IPRs of several of its helicopters, weapon systems & radars to China & consequently, the SA.311 Super Frelon became the Z-8, the SA.365N Dauphin-2 became the Z-9, the Crotale became the FM-80/FM-90, the Mistral became the FN-6, etc. In China, OEMs like CPMIEC, ALIT, NORINCO, CETC, CSTC, CASIC, CSIC etc all have under their patronage & funding complete clusters of R & D institutes (this being similar to Soviet practice) & now these R & D institutes are growing into high-technology parks. 5) MRTA is now in the detailed design stage. No product that is no-developed can be unilaterally exported by either of its two JV partners. It has to be a collective decision. 6) It’s not difficult to get permission, rather the difficulty is in the area of skilled human resource mobilisation. There are a few MRO centres like Air Works, plus those of Air India & IA. But much more needs to be done, especially in the area of general aviation. It was never up to9 Sukhoi to open any MRO centre in India, it was up to HAL. 7) The IN’s oceanographic survey vessels (6 ordered) are catamarans.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da , Many thanks for the great explanation.

I suspect now that Raytheon has enterey the fray to supply the SSR they may well ask MoD to opt for the FMS route so as to get a competitive price .

On a different note , take a look at this link from IHS Jane . According to them , China is designing a long range artillery Gun (SuperGun)!


vicky said...

1 How many nvd will IA get for 3800 crores?
2 why aint IA interested in nvg?
3 i remember reading sometime somewhere that only 1 out of 10 infantry guys have nvd that too in field.
Whats the ratio now..for all of IA?
4. Y is the ia so averse to better combat helmets instead of this ww2 vintage helmet?
5 y have successive ia chiefs from the inf havent been able to rectify this?

Anonymous said...

Prasun -
In looking forward, and considering basic infrastructure has been developed for designing flying or armored platforms, for example Mk1a and 2 of Arjun and/or proposed development time for LCA navy or LCA Mk2 is a lot shorter than Mk1s - would it not be right to sanction development of Mk3 say for example TVC for LCA which if developed by 2020 would significantly increase its flight envelope, and/or 3-man Arjun, spicier engine, better suspension and APS? It is wrong to spend 20B USD on Rafale and forego these opportunities which could be had for less than a 1B USD - Ashish

Anonymous said...

abs said...

How can having only 16 Mig-29Ks on board the INS Vikramaditya ensure Air Dominance over the oceans?
And as I have spoken of it here, could you elaborate on how the IN plans to use its CBGs?

Ron said...

Sir, what happened to the massive phased array radar having rectangular aperture atop the bridge?Why wasnt it retained on INS Vikaramaditya?

What will be the CIWS? Kashtan or Ak630m and how many Ciws mounts will be there?

Just after arriving in Karwar will 48 Barak-2 and Ciws get installed on her?
Wont INS Viraat get shifted to Eastern command ?

Will there be any talks of acquiring a 3rd batch of Talwar class FFG in this Inter-gov meet?What are the top agendas of this meet?Is it likely that Fgfa 5.5 billion dollar detailed designing contract will be signed in this meet?

amardeep said...

Thanks for the answer sir.

What is the ASOR EW system as its mentioned here

When will the first kolkata and kamorta class ship will be inducted?

When will the M777 contract will be signed ?

Ron said...

Sir, Why didnt IN integrate the Kashtan or Ak-630 ciws systems itself in Sevmash itself instead of doing so in India. Russian officials have revealed IN didnt say them anything about airdefense. The Redut system with 120 km 9M96E2 missiles would have better than 70 km range Barak-2 and it could have done there ielf in Sevmash.

Will IN exercise the option of acquiring 3 more improved Talwar class ?Will its systme-radars,ew suite,IPMs,weapons suite be the same as the batch 2 models or would they be from the latest Admiral Sergey Gorskv class of FFG? Shtil-1 VLS can be replaced with the Redut and AK630M with Kashtan-M or Palash.Gorshkov class of vessels also have a new hull mounted sonar suite and an anti-submarine rocket complex.

The proposal to relife and refurbish the existing 8 Kilo class SSK in Sevmash , is it for 10 years of relifing or 15 years?

The hull of Vikramaditya is almost 30 years old.How can it remain in service with us for another 35-40 years with this old hull ?

Anonymous said...

@abs: INS vikramaditya will have 24 Mig 29K and 10 Kamovs.

Vikrant said...

1)what will be the structure of the mountain strike corps?will it be based in panagarh or ranchi and attached divisions?
2)what do you think about Afghanistan post 2014 will afghan forces prevent a Taliban takeover of Kabul or will the country be divided with the govt in Kabul,herat and mazar and the Taliban in Kandahar?
3)Are most militants in Kashmir from southern Punjab(Pakistani)
and not from indigenous communities.and thoughts on post-2014 Kashmir.
4)What is your view on the
COIN abilities pf pak army

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Why has DRDO been unable to indigenously develop LPI Maritime Radar ?

Do they lack the overall skill or are they stuck in any
particular area ?

For example in case of the LCA they were unable to develop a decent engine .


Anonymous said...

Hi Prasoon, can you please add a feature to your comments section, whereby it'll make possible for individual comments to be shared on social media like FB, Twitter etc.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: Not quite, since FMS channel is sought only when buying complete platforms, & not individual sensors or sub-systems. To me, the Consilium package is the best on offer. The photo in China is not of any supergun like what Iraq was trying to build in the late 1980s, but is an electromagnetic rail gun.

To VICKY: 1) At least 3,500 pieces of HHTIs as well as manportable long-range thermal imagers. 2) Who says? 3) Yes, that’s why follow-on orders are now being placed. 4) Dunno. 5) No.

To ASHISH: TVC is almost universally developed by engine manufacturers. What this means is that it is up to GE Aero Engines to develop a TVC retrofit-kit that can go on board the Tejas Mk2 MRCA. APS fpr armoured vehicles have been developed to date by only those countries that have a demonstrated & credible core technological competency in areas like active phased-array radars. Developing such sensors & retrofit-kits will easily gulp far more than US$4 billion in R & D funds, rest assured.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: he he…they obviously can ONLY IF they’re meant for use against Bangladesh, Maldives, Mauritius or Sri Lanka. Certainly not against Pakistan. As far back as 1986 during EX Brass Tacks, the ‘Red Land’ team from the IN convincingly demonstrated to IN HQ & Rajiv Gandhi how the PN with its AM-39-armed Mirage 5s could easily create a maritime exclusion zone measuring 266km in depth. So what’s all this talk about INS Vikramaditya parking itself 12nm away from a hostile coastline & undertaking air-dominance operations??? Only God knows what exactly these ‘desi’ strategists/journalists were smoking when they conjured up such utterly farcical scenarios.

Here’s what one needs to comprehend: Seapower is a conscious political choice. The aircraft carrier has been a controversial platform since its emergence nearly a century ago at the end of World War 1. It has always been vulnerable to attack, but remains capable of flexible, continuous delivery of high volumes of ordnance albeit at a shorter range then in the past. Previous threats to the CBG have been successfully managed through technological improvements in vessel construction and area air-defences. New threats such as supersonic ASCMs need to be fully countered, but the CBG remains less threatened than any land base. This relative safety allows national command authority the ability to deploy significant striking power without placing friendly aircraft at risk in bases outside Indian sovereign control. The US agreed that the big CVN was vulnerable and its steep construction and operating costs were good reason for at least augmenting the carrier fleet with smaller, less costly aviation-capable warships. The problem that was discovered, however, was that if CVNs were even fractionally smaller then the big flattops, the effectiveness of their air-wing rapidly deceased, their vulnerability to mission-kill or loss exponentially increased, and their lifetime maintenance cost (primarily due to the smaller ships' dependence on fossil vice nuclear fuel) was much higher over 30+ years than that of the big deck nuclear-powered CVN. These factors have not appreciably changed. The price of fossils fuels remains problematic and maintenance costs have appreciable risen. While vulnerable to attack, the big deck carrier is still arguably one of the toughest ships to sink.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

The Combined Air Fleet was the brainchild of the Japanese Imperial Navy’s Minoru Genda. His idea was to combine six aircraft carriers together in order to have a virtual air force at sea. Depending on the classes of carrier in the mix, the combined air fleet might have 300-400 aircraft available. That air strength, operating from six decks created something that was more than a naval task force. In those days, it was well understood that naval forces should not get into a mano-a-mano fight with land-based forces, resulting in the “250 mile rule”. Moreover, in 1942, the offense was king; he who struck effectively first, won. Carriers toted relatively fewer combat aircraft, so the dive bombers were likely to get in devastating hits if they found the carriers. This was true tactical instability. However, if you had a lot of combat aircraft, radar-directed or not, defence was more robust. Moreover, lots of decks meant you could multi-task; perhaps do power projection at the same time you were engaged in a sea fight. In any case you were packing a serious punch either way. Had Admiral Nagumo had two more CVs at Midway, the outcome would likely have been much different, US code-breaking or not. What would a combined air fleet look like today? Let’s start with the basic inventory of CVNs. The US certainly has enough to gang six of them together. That would give roughly 300 MRCAs in a single air force. The question is would we know what to do with such a force? In OP Desert Storm the US had seven CVs participating, but they were just feeding an ATO; there was no underlying naval doctrine for how the aircraft should be used. Plus there was no appreciable sea threat other than some mines. What would an air strike doctrine look like for a modern combined air fleet? I think doctrine would have to start with understanding the differences between command of the sea, sea control, sea denial and battlespace superiority. Without going into detail on these things, we can say that offering up six CVNs as a target is pretty risky for the US today, so a) they either would need to operate tactically dispersed and/or b) the threat level would have to be manageable, plus c) the strategic stakes must be worth the risk. The idea would be to concentrate effects. What effects would the USN want? I would say that the first thing would be air superiority.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

The good news today is that the USN has strike aircraft, so the old tradeoff dilemma between bombers and fighters is moot. But the USN must work in conjunction with the USAF, surface units and even SSGNs to create a condition for the enemy in which if it flies over water, it dies. At the same time the USN needs to work to eradicate hostile surface shooters (especially ones with good SAMs). Once those conditions are met, suppressive ASW becomes a possibility. Of course, the enemy still might have land-based ASCMs that could contest the sea space, and if defensive means do not suffice (both right and left of launch), then strike will have to be considered, but preferably with friendly TLAMs. If the USN buys into this concept, the next question would be how does it generate such a force and in what time frame. Right now, it would take some doing to round up the necessary decks. Having such a force in readiness year round would mean that the USN would not be able to continue deploying CVNs as it does now. Moreover, the USN would have to conduct quite a bit of exercising in order to work out the kinks and nail down doctrine. So, there would be a strategic price to pay for developing such a concept, but man, would it be impressive. I can see it scaring people into being quiet. Variations on the theme: perhaps all the CVs don’t carry the same kind of wing. Some have different kinds of UAVs; X-47s, big wings, etc. Perhaps you pack the E-2s, and most helos on one deck and load the others with MRCAs. The whole concept is a blank canvas just waiting for artists to start painting.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Carrier strike groups are expensive to buy and to operate. Factoring in the total life-cycle costs of an associated carrier air wing, five surface combatants and one fast-attack submarine, plus the nearly 6,700 men and women to crew them, it costs about $6.5 million per day to operate each USN strike group. The Nimitz-class carriers can generate approximately 120 sorties a day. The Ford-class CVNs, with the new EMALS, are projected to launch around 160 sorties per day, a 33% increase in launch capacity. This seems very impressive until one realises that the USS George H.W. Bush, the last Nimitz carrier, cost $7 billion and the USS Gerald R Ford is coming in at $13.5 billion. In the end, the US is paying nearly 94% more for a carrier that can only do 33% more work. After World War II, the Strategic Bombing Survey team calculated that it took 240 tons of bombs to drop one bridge spanning a river. By 1965 in Vietnam that number had only come down to 200 tons, but shortly thereafter, US investment in precision strike weapons really began to pay off. By 1999 only 4 tons of bombs were needed to accomplish the mission, regardless of the weather at the target. F/A-18 Hornets that were built in 2000 are already retiring from the force after having exceeded the programmed nearly 8,600-hour life of their airframe. In the IN’s case, initial training for groups of five pilots for 1,700 hours each during the life of the MiG-29K will conservatively cost $2 million. Fuel, spare parts and maintenance cost $60 million over the life of the aircraft, leading to an estimated total life-cycle cost of $120 million each. Average MiG-29K squadron has to fly a little more than 500 hours, or about 32.5 hours per pilot, to maintain warfare readiness, and that is just during the 12-month home cycle. Once deployed, squadron flight-hours increase to approximately 650 hours per month, or 38 hours per pilot. One-third of these hours are expended maintaining the currency and qualifications of the pilot. In the end, over the full extent of its airframe life, the average MiG-29K will log just 20% of its 4,000 hours in combat. Much of this time involves transiting to and from the operating area, with 30 minutes per flight, at most, being dedicated to the mission at hand, providing support to forces on the ground in most cases. The effectiveness of that support can best be measured in ordnance expended. On the other hand, precision-strike Nirbhay cruise missiles will each cost a conservative $2 million. To achieve the same return on investment as the Nirbhay, MiG-29Ks would have needed to fly nearly four times the number of sorties and drop 100,000 air-to-ground weapons.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RON: That APAR is only for the Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier, to which INS Vikramaditya does not belong. CIWS will be AK-630Ms licence-built by OFB & Mahindra Defence, plus the Barak-2. INS Kadamba is only the temporary berthing space for INS Vikramaditya, since the naval base in Mumbai is not too cluttered due to the sunken INS Sindhurakshak & the INS Vikrant rotting away off Ballard Pier. Vizag too is saturated & won’t be able to accommodate INS Viraat. IN is dead-set against Kashtan-M whose performance has been sub-optimal in Indian conditions. At sea, LR-SAMs are totally useless against manned/unmanned airborne platforms. Only MR-SAMs & E-SHORADS are effective. If Batch-3 Project 1135.6 FFGs are ordered, they will be built to the same standard as the preceeding six FFGs of the same class. SLEP for the remaining eight Type 877EKMs will exted their service lives by only another decade. Substantial portions of the INS VIkramaditya’s hull were refurbished with band-new structures.

To AMARDEEP: It is a high-power wide-band jammer. First units of P-15A DDG & P-28 corvette will be commissioned only next year.

To VIKRANT: 1) It will be in Panagarh & Tezpur. 2) Your guess is as good as mine. 3) Yes. 4) The PA is still climbing the learning curve.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: It’s all about monetary limitations. The amount of R & D funds made available to the DRDO is pathetically low, when compared to what’s being done elsewhere around the globe.

Atul K said...

Dear Prasun,

1. How many VLS tubes and missiles on a surface warship would be optimal? Kolkata-class have 48+, Arleigh-Burke class 80+ and King Sejong/Japanese DDGs - 120+.
Does it mean that the shape of future DDG is not final yet and experimentation is going on for more firepower on a limited deck? What are the possible models? Is it the reason why IN keeps moving on from 3 ships in one class?

2. How big a DDG can be in DWT and size? Where does it start blurring the difference between DDG and a cruiser? Moreover, even FFGs are now of considerable size, in upwards of 6000 DWT. So where is this whole trend in surface ship building going? What do you foresee ?

3. Discounting the hype over Chinese carrier models, is it practically possible to build a Catamaran or SWATH aircraft carrier? Will it be able to function as good as the USN big decks?

4. One of the OFB made 155/45 cal gun burst during its trial this year. The internal inquiry report stated that neither the barrel nor the ammunition was defective.??? who was at fault then? And then what happens to the arty acquisition now?

5. What is the status of the Kalyani proposal for upgrading M-46? Did they get the contract?

6. Can you please elaborate on this M777 gun? IS it 39 caliber or 52? Which portions of this gun are made of titanium, especially when Titanium has a limited ability to absorb heat? And if it is so light, why can't this gun be placed on a truck or SPH? That would make it the lightest MGS or SPH available.

Thanks in advance.

rad said...

hi Prasun
What is all this talk of the mr-sam ie barak being in the cold due to non transfer of tech, is it true or is india being unreasonable?.
As you have mentioned before that there was no transfer of tech in the agreement.
What is the mast on the vikranmaditya for , ie the one opp to the main bridge , is not going to be dangerous for incoming landing aircraft?
Please explain details of the the round looking radr, is it a PESA ?
The syrian rebels seem to be swatting down syrian ac by chinese sams , who gave it to them ?, a re they effective. What is the status of the IIR equiped shoulder fired sam in china.

vicky said...

sir ,
isn't 3800 crores for 3500 hhti too steep a price..i remember reading that the 4 tube nvg that navy seal team 6 used for abottabad ops cost like $65k..& this is special piece of equipment..
assuming we are buying normal hhti , we should get atleast 10-11000 pieces..
2) & sir why do we place orders only for a few thousand pieces when even the immediate requiremnt must be in lakhs..
3) if IA is interested in NVGs then doesn't it buy them..?
4) how long will it take for each soldier in an field area to get a NVD/NVG/HHTI ?

Ron said...

Sir, What were the problems faced by IN with kashtan-M?Cant it be resolved?Why did Kashtan-m function sub-optimally in indian conditions ?

Kashtan-m had some emi issues in batch 1 of Talwar class of FFG where it was interferring with Garpul-E engagement radars. There isnt any such radars on INS Vikramaditya. Kashtan-M with its 9M331 missile load was lots and lots better than Ak-630m. Ak-630M is a vintage 1960s design and the target id/track and engagement systems of ak630m have become obsolete.

Is the Chinese YJ-12 and YJ-22 high supersonic ashm operational.Its rumored they have M4.5 speeds in the terminal phase,much higher than M3.0 of Brahmos.Can this missile be intercepted succesfully with Barak-2?

At present just the three Kolkata class DDG and INS Vikramaditya will get Barak-2. The rest of the principal surface combatants have got the 32 km range Shtil and batch 2 of Talwar have 45 km range Shtil-1.How will they survive inface of CM-400AKG strikes from Jf-17?

How capable is the 9M317 round?Is it possiblte to intercept high subsonic sea-skimmers AM-39,Harpoon and supersonic ashm?
How credible is the airdefense screen of IN destroyers and frigates and the will be CBG of INS Vikramaditya against a massed stauration strike with both ship launched subsonic ashm and airlaunched sub and supersonic ones.

Like Western DDGs and those in SE Asia built around the Aegis system, why doesnt Kolkata class incorporate atleast 64 Barak-2 in VLS config instead of the present 48.

Has there been any improvements in the baseline Barak-1 model over all these years in terms of missile kinematic range,warhead and fuse?

Why are Lrsam not suitable against manned and unmanned airborne platforms.?The Type 45 destroyer has got the 120 km range Aster 30 which is a lrsam.Type 052B and 052C have got S-300PMU clones with ranges inbetween 120-200 km depending on the missile variant.And all Aegis class DDg have the ultra long range Standard SM-2 which are used against ballistic missiles,aircrafts as well as ashms.

What are the special features and improvements in Brahmos block3? Whats the 'Deep penetration' capability that the army release mentioned about.The Brahmos that was testfired today does it incorporate some more enhancements over the blk3 ?For Brahmos to be a really effective land attack cruise missile isnt it imperative to increase its range above 290 km ?

and how is Brahmos able to home into a precise target say a building among a cluster of buildings when its has got M2.8 speed at its terminal phase and cant manuver at all.

Thanx in advance.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

I wasnt harsh on #Vikram Guha

I still feel getting hands on the documents of SMX 21 concept is much more viable than spending money on SLEP of 8 kilos

what ever you said about Combined Air Fleet and Minoru Genda if true then sometime back heard China was planning to build twin aircraft carrier of 160k tons, your views

Whatever you say about Israeli companies having a backup of 5000 phd holders cant that same effort be made in India


Joydeep Ghosh

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

India Today came out with a news today stating that NATO spied on the INS Vikramaditya

Also , Livefist is reporting that Russia wants to help with new Vikrant . Do you think the Russians have anything worthwile to offer ?

Thanks & Regards,

Gessler said...

Prasun ji, check this out -

INS Vikramaditya was spied upon by NATO aircraft & ships in summer of 2012. The news is coming out now.

vicky said...

sir ,
sorry for the goof up in my comment above..
*3800 crores convert into US$600 million+..assuming that a normal NVD/HHTI costs $20k(i have no idea of just assumin 1/3 price to that of an extremely specialised seal NVG)..shudn't we be getting atleast 30000+ nvd/hhti ?

Anonymous said...

Norway's (NATOs) P3C Orion targeting indian ships are not new. and also the news was published in 2012 itself and no one hushed up as reported by Shiv Aroor. Since the news did not reach shiv aroor that does not mean the news was hushed up by authorities.

The same thing happened when Indian Destroyer (I forgot the name or the class) was targeted by the same Norways Orion some time back. Their intention was to gather SIGNINT (eSignatures) but the explanation from them at that time was their aircraft detected a new signature their data base do not have and they wanted to examine thinking that it might be a chinese vessel. what ever it may be they wanted it and got it.

any one who has balls can do what they want.

Anup said...

Dear Sir,

When China use Russian technology using reversed engineered Russia never protest or say anything why ?

Idubai said...

I saw the demo of the Jf17 yesterday in dubai. It looked very impressive, very similar to F-16. The build quality and finish is very good too. With the new near-stall manouver, it seems paf are getting really compfortable with its envelope. Wish LCA was doing the same.

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,

"DRDO chief Avinash Chander has indicated earlier this year that the first three-four full rate production Tejas fighters would roll out of the HAL facility in December this year, the first of 40 ordered by the IAF."

What? the production line started already?

abs said...

Very Many Thanks indeed for the brilliant heads up on the operational dilemmas facing the Aircraft Carriers from the past till the present.
I believe, having an Aircraft Carrier with only 16 Mig-29Ks are a sheer waste and India should have invested the money more wisely into procuring more Destroyers and LACMs.
While for the US it might be feasible to have 300 a/cs strong fleet operating in the oceans, I don't think such is possible in the Indian Context.
Therefore what do you suggest?
How should India be using its CBGs? I don't envisage any experditionary campaign being launched by the IN in the foreseeable future and hence it also shows the aircraft carriers as having little use in this context. Rather it would have been far more fruitful to acquire large 66000-80000 ton CVNs when the time was ripe.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ATUL K: 1) In my personal view, any future indigenous DDG design of the IN must incorporate VLS cells for no less than 36 LR-SAMs, 24 Nirbhay-type LACMs & eight BrahMos-1 ASCMs. 2) Such a DDG will displace no more than 7,000 tons. 3) No, that will be totally unwise. 4) Like I had stated much before: faulty fuzing. 5) How can that be possible? Under the MoD’s DPP guidelines, all such reqmts will have to be subjected to competitive bidding. Just because an India-based company comes up with a solution does not mean that it will automatically be awarded a sole-source contract. 6) 39-calibre. Gun carriage components are all made of titanium. If titanium can absorb less heat, then how come the SR-71’s airframe made extensive use of titanium-built airframe structures? BAE Systems has already developed wheeled & tracked versions of the LW-155.

To RAD: It is all ‘talk’ only from the usual blundering ‘desi’ news-reporters. There was never any problem with ToT aspects. The problem was technological & involved synchronisation of the fire-control algorithms of the Barak-2 & its EL/M-2248 MF-STAR APAR—problems that were resolved 3 years ago! There is ToT in terms of BDL undertaking licenced-assembly of all on-board electronic components of the missile round. In addition, IAI/ELTA for the past four years has been helping the LRDE to ruggedize the EL/M-2082 ‘Arudhra’ MPR, which will be used by the IAF. That is the version of that vcersion that has been touted as being the so-called indigenously-developed ‘Arudhra’ that one comes across in some of the past annual reports of the MoD. The drum-like installation atop the island is the Resistor-E automated system designed for providing long-range air traffic control/navigation, plus approach/landing cues and short-range navigational cues for helicopters. FN-6 MANPADS for Syrian rebels most probably were supplied by Sudan via Saudi Arabia.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VICKY: HHTI is not the same as NVG. Figure of Rs.3,800 crores is not all meant for HHTIs alone. Several long-range TIs are also to be acquired. Items like these are never placed in one go, but in successive tranches & therefore the total requirements will be fulfilled in only eight years from now.

To RON: Kashtan-M was never ruggedized for operating in conditions prevalent within the IOR. There were never any EMI issues with Kashtan-M. The EMI issues pertained to the 76mm main gun’s FCS interfering with the operation of the Shtil-1. AK-630M has over the years been upgraded by the IN to accommodate newer optronic fire-control systems. Only YJ-12 ASCM is now under limited series-production. Follow-on orders for Barak-1 are expected to be placed in the near future. There is no other choice. 9M317 round is useless against sea-skimming ASCMs. Within the IOR, no one can presently saturation strikes with volleys of ASCMs. 48 Barak-2 LR-SAMs is more than enough to combat any type of aerial threat either existing or due to emerge in future within the IOR. Barak-1’s optronic target acquisition system has been improved over the years. Aster-30 is dual-capable, i.e. against cruising aerial platforms & NLOS-BSMs & TBMs. All Western principal surface combatants have a dual-role—area air-defence & ballistic missile defence. IN’s warships aren’t as yet. Latest BrahMos-1 test-firing was that of a Block-3 variant & the press-release was issued by BrahMos Aerospace, not by any Army. Deep-penetration refers to the thickness of the reinforced concrete wall that was the target in this test-firing. The missile’s SGH SAR seeker can acquire its target from a distance of 20km—which is more than enough to ensure pinpoint accuracy either in slant mode or top-attack mode.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Whatever I had said about Combined Air Fleet & Minoru Genda was immortalized in movies like MIDWAY & Tora! Tora! Tora!. After seeing them you will realise that whatever I had stated was 100% true.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Will answer all other queries later today, since I have been busy for the past 2 days with the on-going Armoured Vehicles India 2013 seminar being held from 19-20 November, 2013 at the Sheraton New Delhi Hotel in New Delhi.


vicky said...

sir ,
what is the diff b/w hhti & nvd ?
aren't both used for night vision ?
in this link what optical instrument is our jawan using ?
is it an hhti/nvd/binocular?
y is it being used in day time..?
what is the wooden thing attached ?
3) how many such devices are issued to each battalion in field ? specially combat units ?

Chris said...

Dear Prasunda,

I see there are several repetitive occurrences of questions, related to major weapon platforms and projects, on your blog.

The following come up regularly:
Arjun Tank,FICV, BMP-2/3, 155mm/45cal or 52 cal guns, LW155 gun, MGS gun, SPH gun, Small arms, F-INSAS, Aircraft Carriers, DDG, FFG, SSN, SSK, SSBN, SSGN, AOPV, NOPV, ASW corvettes, BMD, Cruise missiles, Ballistic missiles, Pilatus PC-7 MK II, Barak LR-MR SAM, HJT-36, LCA Tejas, LCH/LUH/ALH, Rafale, FGFA, MTA, SU-30MKI, IL-76/78,Jaguar, MiG-29/27, C-17, C-130J-30, Emb-145, P8I, and other such platforms.

Hence, I want to put up an unsolicited request.
Would you please be able to make a FAQ kind of blog entry, updating the current status of these projects, so that whoever wants to know about them, can straightaway be directed to that entry.

You can update that entry as and when information is available. A sort of frequently updated FAQ on weapon projects.

That way we can get answers to frequently asked queries right away. Thereafter, it will also help us, your frequent readers, to ask much more nuanced questions and enrich the debate.

As it is, the kind of background to the issues you provide and your unorthodox reasoning is becoming a reference point for your blog readers.

Please think about it.And Thank you very very much for this blog.

Idubai said...

@Anon 2:47AM

Why do you reply to me, did my comments give you constipation? I know you carry their genes, you have that hatred of being fucked by them over many generations. Bitch slapped by them (paks) everywhere you go around the world.

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Sir,

What is the "time on station" (if the said platform is say 100km from base) for the Phalcon AEW&C the IAF uses?

What is the detection range of the E-2D hawkeye (or the E-2C if the figures for the former are not available) against a fighter sized target?

bipi342 said...

i am seeing now days DRI actively acting against gold smugglers in kerala they caught a more then 400kg of gold in last few month.What is the thing noticed me that they always have the capacity for this but they were not doing this before few month,but when government need money they started blocking this route of smuggling.
i just want to know whether my observation is correct?

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Has India made any progress on the MAITRI missile project or has this project met a dead end ?


Ron said...

Sir, If Shtil 9M317 rounds cant intercept any sea-skimming ASCM, why were they selected for Shivalik and batch Talwar class FFGs when other Mr-sams options were available ?
Why will the 3rd batch of Talwar class again have this same suite when its obsolete and is of little value in today's battlefield.

Barak-1 relies on El/m-2221 stgr and other radars for target det,id,tracking and engagement. From when did Barak-1 suite having electro-optic systems ?

Is there any article on the upgradation of AK630M? The newer fire,control systems that were integrated with it,from which Oem is it and what is the model ?

Can these new Ak630m intercept subsonic sea-skimmers in the terminal phase ?

Barak-2 also has a dual role as an anti-TBM,NLOS-BSM interceptor.As such cant the Kolkata class be used as ABM defense platforms ?
Can the Barak-2 and 8ER be able to intercept YJ-12 high supersonic ashm and its YJ-22 LACM counterpart when it enters service ?

Has any tests been conducted uptill now in which the Barak-2 intercepted ballistic missile targets and supersonic ashm ?What targets has Barak-2,8ER encountered till now in its various tests in Israel ?

What do you mean by ruggedizing of EL/M-2084 Arudhra MPR?What exactly is being done in this ruggedizing?
IAI/Elta was also cooperating with LRDE in making the various Elta origin radars in IAF service super emp hardened ?How much progress has been made in this field ?

Which radar from Thales Raytheon,Elta,Selex Galileo has been selected in the long range S band radar competition which is being going on for over 1 and a half years now ?

Around 2000 T-72M and M1 variants are in service with Army.
How many of these 2000 are in active service and how many are kept as reserves ?The ones in war reserve are they in running and fighting fit condition orr are they in a dilapidated condition and are about to be phased out from service ?

Around a 3rd of T-72 fleet that are inoperational due to lack of major overhauls,what is the condition of them now?
Has any overhaul been planned in the coming months for these tanks in BEML/Army EME workshops/HVF Avadi to restore them to previous conditions ?

Will GoI sel those items in the wislist to Afghanistan- tanks,IFG,mortars,ammo,gunships,mi-17s ...?

Thanx in advance.

Anonymous said...

Question really is what will intercept this?

Anonymous said...

bipi342, Are you surprised?
I am going to give some more shocks.
In Kozhikode (Calicut) airport the x-ray machines were not working for more than 1 year. The passengers luggage and bags were placed on the X-ray scanner and allowed to go through the machine. Knowing very well that these machines were not operational, I wonder why did the security personals allow such thing called "screening" and put a tag saying on 'luggage cleared.' And same thing for the customs section too- inbound passengers. Did somebody sabotage such machines, especially when the Gold price is quite high?

In the last 3 years, the amount of black money coming to Kerala is astonishing. Even though Kerala does not have any industry, Kerala is rich and hence 'high living standard' because of these Gulf money, mostly black money. Kerala becomes the land of fake currency. Govt say the foreign remittance is $3-4 billion in Kerala. But in actuality, the foreign remittance inclusive of black money should be 4-5 times of the actual remittance.

Now because of the high price of Gold, gold smuggling has become a hobby. One Muslim guy was recently caught, who has connections with ruling congress, IUML and Communists.

Intelligence also noticed another trend. Kerala airports (3 international airports in a small state) have become transit centers for certain type of 'Bengali travelers.' Some of these passengers decided to take a 'rest' in Kerala before then go to Bangladesh (or Bengal). Curious, isn't it? When asked, many of them say, 'they have cousins working in Kerala, and want to see them or Want to have Ayurvedic/herbal treatment.' Many of these passengers do not speak (OR pretend) no other language except Bengali. So this has become a big problem for the people who sit at Immigration counter.

But when pursued by intelligence officers, the officers understood that they are just acting as conduits for gold and fake currency, and acting as messengers of their 'masters.'

Now there is another trend. Purchasing the forest land and make resorts, and mining in fragile Western Ghats. Many, many such resorts have come up, 99% of them illegally with political patronage. Even there was a 'yoga camp' by a Muslim extremist group in Wayanad forest.

Please read Kasturirangan report on Western Ghats. The church, Muslims and Communists have come out against the report. There was 12 hour (actually 24 hr) bandh by Communists on Monday, Nov 18, against the report.

Everybody wants a piece of cake in the name of secularism in Kerala.

"God's own country ruled by Asuras."

RR Nair.

AnotherIndian said...

The poultry farms in West Godavari of Andhra (Tadepalligudem Area) daily sends eggs to WB by lorries (atleast 5-6 loads a day). The Bangaldeshis (who work for ISI) and WB based Indian and Bangladeshi muslims exchange money for fake money and these egg transport people bring fake money into coastal AP and start exchanging it.

Even though it is very common as very often these people get caught, sent to jail, come back and again do the same thing until caught again.. and every one knows this including police.

The ISI prints indian fake money using the same currency paper India imports from Brazil and distribute it through middle east (through kerala muslims), through bangladesh (through west bengal and bangldeshi muslims) through nepal through north muslims,maldives, mauritius and thailand(most famous for ISI activites with the support of thai political people).

kerala became a hidden kashmir.

we already know HYD and old city and those ISI activities in that area. even they wont pay electricity bills in old muslim area and anyone (obviously muslims) wants a electric connection they simply hook the wire to the line, start using it and no one dare to venture into that. free power..

despite all this the dumb indian agencies are busy in doing political work for ruling party such as collecting political information rather than involve in Indian Security.

Only God knows what happens next...

AnotherIndian said...

No need to mention about TN muslims. there are about 1200-1700 muslims organisations (associated with respective mosques) in all of TN and when some one in the US burns kuran they made chennai stand still (with 20,000 people coming from all of TN).

I dont know whether TN police collected as many people's ID as they can who participated in that,
as all of them supports ISI/pakis in one form or other based on religion and monitoring them; i doubt that given the inability and non professionalism of Indian police to think out of the box.

these people in TN in a single month killed 18 Hindu prominent people saying they do not want anyone raise their voice for hindus.

Bhaswar said...

@Prasun Da

When one looks up wiki, as loathe as I am to use it as a source, some curious things come up.

The Kitty Hawk class carriers are listed with a tonnage of 62,000 tons "light" and 83,000 tons "full load".

The Admiral Kuznetsov is said to weigh in at 43,000 tons "standard load", 55,000 tons "full load" and 61,000 tons at "max-load". What exactly does this signify?

What is the meaning of "light", "standard load" and "full load" in this context?

What is the actual weight of the Kitty Hawk carrier itself sans the air group and the provisions and the crew?

When we say that the INS Vishaal will weigh in at 65,000 tons- which weight are we referring to, "light"- "full load"- which one? What is the actual weight of the prospective carrier itself going to be on a stand-alone basis?

K. SHEKAR said...

Sir look at this -

“Besides, what is the purpose of hiding the infrastructure of the Camp Shorabak training camp underground, which is moreover equipped with a three-kilometer runway?”

...asks the Russian in the article.

What do you think is the purpose on this infrastructure in Afghanistan post-2014 US withdrawal?

Deep Throat said...

Former Railways Minister and current MP for the Congress Abdul Ghani Khan Chowdhury charges Rs.50,000 for every one illegal Muslim who crosses over into West Bengal from Bangladesh , Burma & Pakistan ( via Nepal). Since these illegal Muslims are in high demand
as they will vote in groups he arranges the documents ( passport , aadhar etc) and sends them to parties like Congress,
CPM , SP , RJD etc across length & breadth of India .

Pierre Zorin said...

Thieves break in when the house is empty - just because PKS is away doesn't give anyone licence to abuse this educative and intelligent website through inappropriate language, themes and completely unrelated and insulting ideas! I move the motion that Prasun delete every ANONYMOUS postings, villifying and inappropriate material and mud distracting comments that have no educational purpose. This blog is not on open field for defecation. I may seem sucking up but I empathise with someone who devotes considerable time entertaining and educating others without any commercial advantage and I do feel highly hurt and offended at attempts to troll and degenerate this blog.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

Some RAW officials have stated that CIA hid more than it revealed about 26/11 .

Given the fact that Pakistan is a bigger security concern for India than US , why does RAW have to depend on CIA for inputs on the Pakis ?


sntata said...

I fully agree with all that Pierre Zorin said above.I also am all for kicking out these Anonimous guys from the blog.

JUSTICE said...

Prasun, a few questions for you sir:

1)When will the US deals of the AH-64E, CH-4F, M-777/LW-155 and follow-on 6 C-130J-30s be signed?

2)There seems to be a lot of conflicting reports around the AW-101 deal now. Some reports from the Indian media this week said the deal was 100% dead and had been officially cancelled. But this seemed premature considering it was only yesterday (Wednesday 20th) that AW officially made their case to the GoI in a meeting and have now appointed B.N. Srikrishna, a retired judge of the Supreme Court of India in their arbitration against the GoI. Why exactly are the GoI/MoD acting like such retards in this case? Are they being massively failed by their legal advisors who don't have a grasp on international litigation cases?

Where do you see this issue being resolved and how? The tragic fact is the AW-101s are the PERFECT machine for the IAF as Head of State transport and the MI-8/17s currently used in this role are woefully inadequate for this role and will be out of service in 3-4 years so their replacement is DESPERELTY needed.

3) Just how does one respond to this level of BS:,d.Yms,d.Yms,d.Yms,d.Yms

I mean given this system is already operational on Israeli naval vessels and will soon be on IN vessels just what is the Indian media smoking to come up with such stories?

3) When will the LR-SAM be fitted on a) P-17A b) INS Viky,

4) When will the IA's SFs receive their new Light Strike Vehicles replacing the now much outdated Gypsies? This is a pressing requirement and the fact they still have to make do with 1.3 litre powered Gypsies is nothing short of shambolic.

Atul K said...

Dear Prasun,

1. What is wrong with GSLV rocket? Why it keeps failing?Will they ever be able to solve it?

2. Though you have argued that C-130J would be adequate replacement for HS 748 Avro aircraft, it seems overkill. Since a replacement is needed in 5-7 ton category. Even future replacements like AN-32RE are in same class. Moreover, airstrips in North-East are hardly more than 7-900 meter long so you need a STOL type aircraft for tactical transport. I am wondering whether IAF is planning to replace AVRO with C-130J and then look for another for AN-32 in future? And if they induct C-130J now, then where will be the space left for MRTA?

Thanks very much and best regards.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

learnt a few things

1. Over $5b tenders issued for LPDs it means focus is now building ships tat will augment aircraft carriers. how many LPDs to expect

2. But does it really mean (as per you sometime back) that P75I is on backburner and focus is on building more Scorpenes, if so is it not prudent to go for SMX 21 concept design

3. MoD gave go ahead to buy 4 more P8 before RM went to Russia, do you think 12 P8 is enough

4. MoD gave go ahead to 50000 strong 17 Corps MSC with base in Panagarh, in North Bengal and another in Assam. But unlike other 3 SCs with over 1 lakh troops that are fairly concentrated around their main base dont you think MSC will be too scattered across 3 locations, even if they are to be supported by C17s & C130s


Joydeep Ghosh



Should one worry about the security of many of India's frontline military assets such as P-8Is,A-50Is and C-17s? We've seen what's happened in Pakistan vis-a-vis their top-end military assets being taken out ont he ground by terrorists.

Are India's assets that much more secure? Is base seucrity in India especially for these sort of strageic assets, up to scratch?

Anonymous said...


Thanks for your concern across the border.

Hope you are safe in your Karachi City..

DAshu said...

where r u sir ???

Gessler said...

Sir, just found another image of the DRDO Multi-Caliber Weapon System (MCWS) -

This one looks completely different from the earlier images which showed something similar to FN F2000. Can you explain what's going on?

dushyant hardaha said...
prasoon ji
sir do you think anything like this could happen?

raw13 said...

My guess is Prasun is at the Dubai airshow. And in the meantime we have few strays from BR on the loose here ;-)

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA & GESSLER: Wasn’t this the very same ‘desi’ journalist who had claimed about 3 years ago that Myanmar’s Great Coco island was playing host to some China-supplied & controlled radar station? He ought to read the latest book by Gen (Ret’d) V P Malik (India’s Military Conflicts & Diplomacy: An Inside View of Decision-Making) in which iut is clearly written that everytime any Indian official visiting Myanmar raised the issue of such a radar station, Myanmar unconditionally offered to take out such officials on a flying tour of Great Coco Island so that the Indian officials could see for themselves whether or not such a radar station indeed existed! Now coming to the issue of NATO spying on INS Vikramaditya, there are several inaccuracies in that report. Firstly, when the incident took place, the vessel wasn’t INS Vikramaditya at all nor was the vessel India-flagged or owned. It was still a Russian vessel at that time & it was flying the Russian flag & was therefore sovereign Russian property. The transfer of ownership took place only on the day of commissioning & only after that was the Indian tricolour hoisted on the vessel. Secondly, the photos clearly show that the Norwegian P-3C Orion NEVER BUZZED the vessel. Instead, as per international laws & conventions, the P-3C always maintained a distance & altitude of 200 metres away from the vessel. That’s because unauthorised flying over the vessel in international waters in peacetime without permission is considered a violation of sovereignty. Even submarines during peacetimes cannot cruise directly underneath any naval vessel without approval as per international law. Thirdly, since the Russia-owned aircraft carrier at that time did not have any on-board weapons to test (like SAMs or naval artillery), the Russian Navy did not declare a maritime exclusion zone around the vessel & therefore no NOTAMs were issued to airmen or mariners asking them to keep away from the aircraft carrier while it was in international waters in the White Sea. In light of the above, to claim that the P-3C Orion "buzzed" the ship just a few hundred feet over her deck & that this constituted a snooping incident on an Indian ship is totally baseless, & an outright lie, which is only what can be expected from such pathetic ‘desi’ journalists who don’t bother to do their homework & choose to remain ignorant about international maritime laws & conventions.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANUP: Has anyone proven to date that China has reverse-engineered Russia-origin weapons? The only weapon system/platform reverse-engineered by China since 1989 is the J-15 naval heavy MRCA, which was reverse-engineered from the Su-33—an aircraft whose IPRs were held in the 1990s by both Ukraine & Russia & therefore China got all what it wanted to know about carrier aviation NOT from Russia, but from Ukraine.

To SNTATA: Not the series-production line, which won’t be ready till 2016 at best. Presetly there is just one final assembly hangar in Bengaluru that HAL owns & it is there that final assembly of the first 8 SP-series Tejas Mk1 is taking place & you can rest assured that the worksmanship quality of these aircraft won’t be up to the mark at all.

To ABS: I will go even one step further to state that with the benefit of hindsight, it was a sheer waste of time & money to acquire the INS Vikramaditya & all that money would have been better-spent on 1) expediting construction of the IAC-1, & 2) Undertaking design work on an LPH (i.e. a shortened IAC-1). Just imagine the sight of two IN-owned aircraft carriers of two totally different technological generations: INS Vikramaditya & INS Vikrant (IAC-1)! In fact, it now well-known that right up to late 1998, for as long as Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat was the IN’s CNS, Navy HQ was vigorously opposed to acquiring the Gorshkov from Russia & instead was totally in favour of the IAC-1. Even a combined force of 45 MiG-29Ks will not be able to fly sustainable & relentless offensive sorties beyond a week against a foe like Pakistan. At best, defensive counter-air sorties will be flown & that too for not more than 8 hours each day. Consequently, in terms of offensive power projection, there’s only one viable option today & that is the ship-/submarine-launched subsonic long-range LACM. A 7,000-tonne DDG armed with no less than 36 LACMs of this type can drop accurate ordnance over far more targets day & night, thus retaining the element of surprise & seizing the initiative.

To VICKY: HHTI is NVD. But HHTI is not NVG. NVDs come in various shapes & sizes, whereas NVGs at most times don’t.

To CHRIS: VMT. What you’re asking is to create a database for each product & then update it regularly, which sounds good, but is impossible for me to do given the paucity of time.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: Time on station is 8 hours. E-2D’s airborne target detection range is about 250nm. 65,000 tonne figure is that of full/max load.

To BIPI342: DRI is doing this because the Govt of India has tightened its belts & has imposed restrictions on gold imports, which in turn forces people to smuggle in gold. Remove the restrictions & gold smuggling too will disappear.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: The project is still on, but only on paper. No R & D work has begun as yet from the Indian side.

To RON: Why Shtil was selected in the late 1990s? It was because of its ability to engage airborne manned aircraft. Third batch of Project 1135.6 FFGs will have the same missiles. Both Barak-1 & Kashtan-M have optronic fire-directors. One can see them here:

There are follow-on iterations of AK-630M available from Russia’s Tulamashzavod JSC. Till to date, no gun-based CIWS has been able to successfully intercept subsonic ASCMs. They have been able to intercept only target drones. The OEM producing the Otomat Mk2 ASCM once told me that the US Navy’s Phalanx has to date not been able to shoot down any inbound Otomat Mk2 that is normally used by the US Navy during firing drill exercises. How can Barak-2-armed P-15A-class DDGs be employed for ABM defence? Is there any BM that can successfully target warships? Or has the IN been mandated by the Govt of India to come up with a sea-based ABM defence network? Barak-2 will be able to intercept any type of supersonic ASCM, simply because no such ASCM can be a sea-skimming missile, thanks to the laws of physics. Thus far, Barak-2 has not been test-fired against any supersonic ASCM. By ruggedisation I mean exactly the same type of work that was undertaken for the TRS-17 radar, which later on morphed into the Rohini. It requires the provision of APU generators, air-conditioning, etc. There’s no such thing as EMP super-hardening.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@6.58PM: Was already answered last November.

To K SHEKAR: That was answered by President Hamid Karzai himself when the same question was put to him a couple of months ago by Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif. According to Karzai, these bases are meant for use against Pakistan’s reported arsenal of nuclear weapons.

To VIKRAM GUHA: The CIA did not hide anything from R & AW regarding the terrorist attacks on 26/11. What the CIA did was protect David Coleman Headley’s mission BEFORE the staging of 26/11. What this means is that the CIA was using Headley to penetrate the LeT’s command-and-control hierarchy so that the CIA could know more about the LeT’s anti-US activities inside both Pakistan & the US. It is for this reason that the CIA did not want to sacrifice such a prized mole & consequently it decided against alerting the IB (not R & AW) about Headley’s periodic visits (5 i9n all) to Mumbai during which Headley conducted on-site recce for the LeT. Had the CIA alerted the IB to maintain 24/7 surveillance of Headley, then chances were that Headley would surely have been arrested by the Mumbai Police much prior to 26/11 & the CIA would have been unable to penetrate the LeT. The CIA did manage, with Headley’s inputs, to penetrate the LeT module in Karachi & harvest loads of cellular phone intercepts that enabled the US to zero in on the principle planners of 26/11 & that’s why the US had forewarned India two months before the 26/11 attacks actually took place & that’s how the US tipped off India about the Al Husseini cargo vessel’s departure from Karachi. It was India that screwed up on two fronts: 1) Mumbai Police stopped the monotonous job of patrolling the coastline astride the Taj Intercontinental just a week before 26/11; & 2) the Indian Coast Guard had failed to track down Al Husseini BEFORE the Kuber vessel was commandeered by the 26/11 terrorists, all of which is detailed in the R D Pradhan Committee Report & that’s why this report remains a state secret within India.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JUSTICE: 1) Your guess is as good as mine, but all indications are that the FMS deals will be inked by next March. 2) This tamasha is happening precisely because those at the helm of affairs in the MoD are certified retards. I had already spelt out all the steps reqd to be taken to resolve this issue in a previous thread. 3) What else can you expect? I have already explained above how a ‘desi’ journalist completely got all his facts wrong about the INS Vikramaditya’s so-called P-3C buzzing incident. 4) P-17A is still four years away. On the INS Vikramaditya it will be fitted by 2015.

To ATUL K: 1) That’s what applied R & D is all about. One learns by trial & error. There’s no choo-mantar/abracadabra solution available from anywhere. 2) The answers are all in the RFP which describes how the Avro replacements are meant to be used & what for. The selected aircraft won’t be used for military logistics roles at all. Instead, they will be used for transporting CAPF personnel throughout the country. MRTA will be used for air maintenance & will therefore will be used solely for military logistics operations.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) Only four LPHs will be acquired. The RFP has been issued only to local OEMs, not foreign shipbuilders. It is now up to the local OEMs/shipbuilders to seek & team up with suitable foreign industrial partners. 2) EXACTLY. 3) The IN requires a minimum of 28 P-8Is to patrol the IOR. 4) XVII Corps won’t be the MSC. Instead, it will be a force accretion to replace the two mountain divisions that have been redeployed since the 1990s from the North East to J & K.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TRUTHSEEKER: It is always a worry & that’s why the Garuds were raised.

To DASHU & RAW13: VMT. Was fairly busy covering two seminars: one relating to armoured warfare (which is so utterly hilarious as it showed the Army in total confusion in terms of its force modernsation priorities & the DRDO equally confused since it does not know what the Army desires/wants) & another dealing with UAVs, both in Delhi. Spent the weekend reading the book ‘India’s Military Conflicts & Diplomacy: An Inside View of Decision-Making’ by Gen (Ret’d) V P Malik. This one of those very rare books that delves into the issue of ‘lessons learnt’ from past experiences & campaigns/operations & I highly recommend it for reading.

To GESSLER: It is one of the iterations of the MCWS. Matters are still in the prototype development stage.

To DUSHYANT HARDAHA: Everything’s possible in love & war & politicking. What do you sound so surprised? This has been going on since ages.

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You PrasunDa .

The writers of the booh The Seige also agrees with you . Though ToI for the sake of publicity distorts their findings with an eye catching headline .

It's really unfortunate that IB & R&AW depend on CIA/FBI for inputs on Jihadi groups in Pakistan .

On a different note , just like the book by Gen Malik that you have recommended can you plz recommend any such book written about the Indian Navy as to what is going wrong & what needs to be done ?


Anonymous said...

Read this article
I had to read it 3 times to understand it and even then it seems ridiculous to me.
I don't know why but while reading the articles on Broadsword , I tend to use my special wits to get his thoughts, whereas whenever I read your blog only common sense suffices.

Anonymous said...

not one but tow reactors: how will they pay?

Heberian said...

@ Prasun:

What do you think about:

Many thanks!

raw13 said...


You beat me to the question:
This is getting interesting indeed!

Look at this:

Heberian said...

Hello Raw13,

Yes, I have been tracking this since it developed over the weekend. So the time of Deng and "Hide your strength and bide your time" is clearly past... and Xi has arrived.

I think its extremely pertinent to watch and learn from China... as my two favorite topics are the poverty and all the negatives in my country and the "rise" of China.

Prasun s Fan said...

Am confused at this part of your comment:
"... as my two favorite topics are the poverty and all the negatives in my country "

your country? India?

Would you like to expand a bit? on your fav topics regarding your country?

Thank You.

Siddharth said...

Dear Prasun Da,

Mi-17V5 of India is equipped with which engine? And in total how many Mi-17V5 helicopters India has ordered. Don't believe in Wikipedia data.

Anonymous said...

China is selling CM-400AKG supersonic cruise missile to pakistan which they say can be effectively used against aircraft carriers.What is the level of threat and what protection will our carriers have against such a missile.

Raman said...

Stephan Cohen/DasGupta's "Arming without Aiming"............says most of it.......really....and, your comment on the Army's direction-less Force Modernization is sad, but true........Each Army Chief just wants to put his "stamp" during his tenure and ensure his retirement plans....rather than working towards steps to achieve a long term Goal.

How I wish someone would catch the MoD/Chiefs by the scruff and wake them up and do the job they are supposed to do........and what to say about the Lack-lustre RM............

rad said...

Hi Prasun
Lately we seem to be hearing a lot of gaseous info on the so called ck-400 carrier killer hypersonic missile.The Maths just dont add up. The missile is 400 kg and has a 200 kg warhead , if we minus another 100 kg for the air frame and avionics, we are left with 100 kg of solid fuel.Now to claim that the missile can attack at mach 4 using 100kg of solid fuel seems to be wish full thinking rather than reality.IE unless the chor Khan labs have invented a nuclear rocket engine in the land of the pure !!!.
The Brahmos is 2500 kg air launched, with the nearly the same warhead weight and that to with a ramjet engine can do 290 km at mach 2.5 approx.
The only way the JF-17 can do it is to get targeting data from an awacs and fire the missile in a ballistic trajectory so that it may take advantage of the height gained like a ballistic missile warheads. My question is how will a jf-17 approach a carrier battle group at high level to nearly 250 kms to launch the missile so as to take advantage of height?.
I wouldnt give it much thought, it looks to me as another scare tactic or plain bullshit.!!
Is my thinking right, and do give your inputs

bipi342 said...

if congress is going to make cd of modi then congress may have to answer the "long vacation" of Rahul and what he is doing in foreign country.To my mind this will be the worst election campaigning coming for 2014,what you think.

raw13 said...


here let me provide you with more accurate info:

by the way have a look at JF-17 performance

Magicbullet said...

Hi Prasoon , what do you make of this

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: Everything that one wants to know about David Coleman Headley can be viewed here:

IB & R & AW have no other choice but to depend on the FBI or NSA simply because 1) only the NSA possesses the kind of data-mining & signals snooping capabilities that are imperative for gathering irrefutable evidence like voice samples & pinning down of the origin of such signals. 2) the kind of sophisticated forensic analysis hardware/software reqd for coming up with such irrefutable evidence exists only in the US. The Thuraya SATphones & Magellan GPS navigation palmtops used by the 26/11 terrorists were sent to the FBI for forensic data-mining since on entity in India possesses such forensic analysis hardware or expertise. That is the ONLY REASON why the seven conspirators are now holed up in Pakistani prisons since December 2008 & all their bail applications have been denied. Had the FBI & NSA not stepped in with help, India would not have been to produce any evidence against the Pakistani conspirators. Forensic analysis is at such pathetic levels within India that even the recovered FDRs & CVRs on board crashed Su-30MKIs have had to be sent to the UK for data-mining!

By the way, do watch how the ‘desi’ journalists never tire of making utter fools of themselves when appearing on Pakistani TV talk-shows discussing the 26/11 attacks:

Lastly, I was right after all since 2011 about the IN’s reqmt being for LPHs, & not LPDs. The specs of the RFP released by the IN that I have accessed clearly state that the vessel will have a displacement of no more than 21,000 tonnes dwt, have a length of 213 metres, & should be able to accommodate 11 (eleven) 12-tonne NMRHs on its top-deck.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SIDDHARTH: He does have a point, though. What he’s talking about is the need to have a cohesive tri-services information warfare strategy of the type adopted by Pakistan’s ISPR. Right now, each armed service of India has its own press-relations directorate/cell in Delhi plus regional cells attached to each theatre command & all these cells & directorates are functioning autonomously without any coordination. Consequently, inputs for the ‘desi’ press corps generated by the Delhi-based directorates are often at variance with what’s released by the regional cells & this in turn leads to confusion, which in turn further confuses the already confused ‘Saint’ A K Antony. The end-result is utter mayhem in Parliament of the type witnessed a few months ago. Furthermore, just compare the official websites of India’s MoD & its three armed services with those of the PRC or the US or even ISPR & you’ll be able to see how pathetic the Indian websites are. Same goes for Doordarshan when compared with China’s CCTV. In CCTV, everyday there’s at least one news-video showing some element of the PLA’s army, navy or air force engaged in some kind of exercise. Whereas in India, even the private news broadcast channels are unable to obtain such video footages from the MoD or armed services HQs. For instance, did anyone bother to do a short video on the IAF’s recent dispatch of a C-130J-30 to The Philippines with humanitarian relief materials? Has anyone done any feature-length documentary on the IA’s OP Sadbhawna in J & K or elsewhere in the North East? Has anyone bothered to do similar documentaries on the CRPF’s counter-insurgency operations against Maoist guerrillas or about the Greyhounds of AP Police? Has anyone done any 30-minute programme detailing how Israeli counter-terror specialists have trained Mumbai Police’s Force-1 SWAT team. Yet, ironically, several foreign TV channels have aired such documentaries on these very topics & they’re available on YouTube.

To Anon@10.53PM: They will pay by borrowing money from the IMF & then be caught in a perpetual, circular debt-trap. As simple as that.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HEBERIAN: What the US did was to send a signal to Beijing: “You’re good, boy…quite good, but for as long as I’m around along with Japan, you’ll always remain third-best.” For both Japan & the US know only too well that neither the PLAAF nor the PLA Navy will be able to enforce such an ADIZ on a 24/7 basis. In fact, the Japanese ASDF has several times before intercepted intruding PLAN MR/ASW aircraft & UAVs in that part of the airspace. Furthermore, the ASDF has possessed indigenously developed supersonic air-launched ASCMs since over a decade to thwart any deliberate maritime encroachment plan being put into effect by PLAN. Lastly, the formidable offensive airpower projection capabilities of the JASDF & US Navy in that area will trounce any expeditionary plans of either the PLAAF or PLAN within a few hours, if matters do degenerate to such a stage. Beijing knows only too well its power projection limitations & has therefore decided to try out the ADIZ route as a testing the waters case (as part of a limited gamble/partial brinkmanship strategy), instead of laying a much more serious claim over controlling the air traffic management of the flight information region (FIR) over those disputed islands—something that would have to be done with ICAO’s concurrence.

To SIDDHARTH: VK-2500 engines from Ukraine’s Motor Sich. 80 + 57 Mi-17V-5s have been ordered.

To RAMAN: You’re absolutely right in your assessment.

To RAD: Far more important is this question: if the CM-400AKG is that good, when why is the PLA Navy not inducting it into service? Instead, why is it going for the YJ-12 supersonic air-launched ASM? Even if a JF-17 obtains beyond-the-horizon targetting updates from a P-3C or Saab 2000 AEW & CS, exactly how many J-17s will be available for such maritime strike missions? From how many air bases? To be effective, a missile of this size will have to be launched from a distance of no more than 80km away from its target (which will typically lie 300km away from Pakistan’s coastline in order to avoid the C-602 ASCMs deployed with the PM’s coastal missile defence batteries) & that too from an altitude of 5,000 feet, which will easily make the launch-aircraft visible to an airborne Ka-31 operating at least 150km away. Consequently, the JF-17 will easily lose the element of surprise & any such maritime strike will undoubtedly fail, be it through the use of CM-400AKG or the subsonic C-802A ASCM, which is what the JF-17 is presently armed with.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HEBERIAN: Even more interesting is the on-going rapproachment between the US/EU & Iran & its strongest opposition from Saudi Arabia & Israel. What does this all portend? Does it mean that the US & EU have embraced a paradigm shift under which the arc of Iran, Iraq & Syria will constitute the new economic frontiers meant for milking by the US & EU? Does it mean that the US & EU have dumped the GCC Sheikhdoms as their ‘trojan horses’ & have decided to make Iran & Iraq as the new regional policemen & dominant economic powers? Does it mean that Iran’s real estate will be used by the US & EU for securing the safe drawdown of ISAF forces from Afghanistan starting next year, since the all-weather highway linking western Afghanistan with Iran’s Chah Bahr port is already operational? Was this the reason why the US did not oppose India’s additional investment of US$100 million earlier this year to further upgrade the Chah Bahr port? Will India next, along with Afghanistan, extend the highway from western Afghanistan into the Central Asian Republics, thereby making this highway network the shortest outlet for the Central Asian Republics to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea, thereby foreclosing the option of using the deep-water port of Gwadar? Will the Indian Navy be called upon to provide escort security for the maritime convoys loaded with ISAF hardware & headed out for the Horn of Africa/Suez Canal?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Lt Gen Raheel Sharif is the new COAS of the Pakistan Army, effective November 29, 2013. He was the juniormost of the three names proposed by GHQ. The second-most senior officer of the PA, Lt Gen Rashid Mehmood, is the new CJCS, a post that had been lying vacant for almost two months. Raheel is currently serving as Inspector General Training and Evaluation whereas Mehmood is serving as Chief of the General Staff. The Pakistan Army’s seniormost officer Lt Gen Haroon Aslam, a former CO of the Special Services Group & currently serving as Chief of Logistics Staff, was ignored for elevation to COAS. Gen Sharif, hailing from Lahore’s Model Town, is related to Begum Kulsoom Nawaz (PM Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif’s wife) & he had also served as CoS to the former Quetta-based XII Corps GOC Lt Gen (ret’d) Abdul Qadur Baloch, who is presently with PML-N, & he had also commanded the Gujranwalla-based XXX Corps. Gen Sharif had also been handpicked by outgoing COAS Gen A P Kayani in 2008 to articulate the Pakistan Army’s riposte to the IA’s non-articulated & officially disowned ‘Cold Start’ doctrine. The selection of Lt Gen Mehmood as CJCS is indicative of the Pakistan Army’s determination to retain key decision-making & advisory positions related to Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent arsenal, which is entirely Army-owned, operated & maintained.

Selection of Gen Raheel by Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif is indicative of the latter’s keen desire to retain full control over Pakistan’s foreign policy-making & national security affairs. Traditionally, the PA’s GHQ has been articulating & dictating Pakistan’s policies on nuclear deterrence, India-Pakistan relations, & Pakistan’s Kashmir policy. To this end, Nawaz Sharif has also appointed serving Federal Minister Water & Power Khawaja Muhammad Asif, his close confidant as well as a longtime friend of Gen Raheel Sharif, as the Defence Minister.

Gessler said...

Hi Prasun, need your opinion on a wide variety of questions flying in my mind -

About the Pakistan issue -

1) Can you outline any possible effects the new COAS of PA could cast on India? In what way?

2) You have spoken in-depth about the Day of Reckoning for Pakistan and it's WMDs. The West is always ready to undertake surgical strikes and intervene in situations like it's second nature, but is India politically and militarily capable of assisting or working alongside the Western forces when such an operation needs to be undertaken?

I believe if Pak's WMDs are destroyed or disarmed, the (obviously) Modi-led NDA government in India may try to grasp the credit for it and gain some political mileage. It;s not like I'm ridiculing Modi or NDA, but that's how India's politicians work.

3) What could be China's possible role or stance during this Day of Reckoning?

About the ET issue and Earth History -

1) Do you have any info about Hitler's so-called time machine "The Bell"? Was it really a time machine? Did it really travel 20 years in time?

2) What is with this Aryan race? The patterns of Human immigration on Earth is so confusing that it's hard to draw lines.

One theory is there that most of the Gods in Hindu Mythology belonged to the Aryan race? What's your opinion on this?

3) Was it true that Heinrich Himmler believed in the Hindu faith and that he always carried a copy of the Gita and considered himself as Arjuna? What is this all about it?

What is the connection between Hindu mythology and Nazism?

4) About the various forms and races of Aliens who's existence is recorded in the Blue Planet Project - the Nordics, Grays & Reptoids...what is your knowledge on them? Can you reveal anymore info about their individual motives and plans for Earth's population?

Can one of them be helpful to each country in the world? Are they in contact with Indian government?

VMT in advance.

Heberian said...

Hi Prasuns Fan @ 4.33 am

Sorry for the confusion, I was writing in a hurry and am in a totally different time zone.

What I meant to say was that one of my 2 favorite topics is the poverty and the situation in my country, i.e., India. Since I was born in Kerala grew up mostly in Bihar and served all over the place.. India is definitely my country :)

I worry about how our political class and our janta are so totally missing the forest for the trees and are completely lacking in foresight, planning, pragmatism and execution when it comes to national intersts... the most important of which is ensuring basic health care, sanitation and education for all our fellow-citizens.

I hope my statement is clear now?

Anonymous said...


I have seen your participation in site.

You got lost to them, to their menatlity.

They (pakis) always look around some thing like this, something like Chengis Khan, Turkish kINGDOM , Ulema and all that shitty things...

do and think something good and useful..

S N Bose. said...

It seems to me the systems are technologically advanced and competitive with products from the western countries or Russia, but there need to be serious revamp of the (from research /prototype product to...)serial manufacturing processes . It also seems like with the time delay it gives the General in the Indian Armed forces to come into contact with and get bribes from foreign manufacturers.

Heberian said...

Hello Prasun!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with the on-going situation with the AD zone. I was having similar thoughts, and was wondering what our response would be if a similar sort of thing happened on our north/ north-eastern frontiers. But then, we havent even reacted properly to the entire stapled visa fiasco.

I absolutely love the questions you raise about the US end-game in the rapprochment with Iran. Much to ponder. It was interesting to note that the Iranians later said they would continue the construction at Arak.... very interesting indeed.

I keep wondering what will Saudi Arabia do next? Any thoughts on that? And where will Pakistan stand in all of this?

Maybe the US also thinks that the time of the Sheikhs are numbered and the best way to prepare for that day is to work on the hearts and minds of the Iranian people?

On a tangent, it was intersting to see the neuron/taranis sort of UAV flying in China. WOuld the American drone downed by Iran have anything to do with its flight?

Do share your thoughts on all this when you can, please.

Prasun s Fan said...

Thanks for your explanation..

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You Prasun Da for the elaborate explanation .

As always a very sorry state of affair . What more can be expected in a country where bombs go off near Nuclear Plants as there is no security around and perpetuators are still at large .

Re the IN's requirement for LPH , I suspect Juan Carlos I can be a choice or for that matter Dokdo Class LPH from South Korea .



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