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Tuesday, October 22, 2013

Clearing The Mist On the IAF's Airborne EW Suites For Combat Aircraft & Helicopters

The integrated EW suite (shown below) for the Tejas Mk1 MRCA as envisaged by the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and designed by the DRDO’s Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE).
This suite, however, remains unproven, although it has been flight-tested on an HS-748 Avro flying testbed by the DRDO’s Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS) since 2007. To certify this EW suite on the Tejas Mk1 MRCA, at least 40 additional test-flights on a PV-1 flying testbed will be required, which in turn will further delay the Tejas Mk1’s operational flight certification by at least 18 months. Making matters further complicated is the sub-optimal performance of the DARE-developed RWR-118 radar warning receiver (see below)—a fact which forced the Indian Air Force (IAF) to reject it for the MiG-29UPG upgrade programme.
The IAF’s MiG-29UPGs, in fact, have the IAF’s most advanced internally-mounted integrated EW suite, which includes Elettronica of Italy’s ELT-568 AESA-based jamming system (see below), which will also go on board the yet-to-be-upgraded Su-30MKIs.
The IAF is now favouring the installation (for both the Tejas Mk1 and Tejas Mk2) of an EW suite that will include SaabTech’s radar warning receiver and laser warning receiver along with the MILDS-F missile approach warning system (MAWS) sourced from EADS/Cassidian. This package has already been selected for both the EMB-145I AEW & CS programme, as well as for the Super Su-30MKI upgrade programme.
SaabTech’s radar warning receiver, laser warning receiver and MAWS have already been selected by the IAF for its Dhruv Mk4 ALH and Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), and by the Indian Army for its Rudra helicopter-gunships.
Shown below is the DARE-designed EW suite architecture for the Super Su-30MKI, inclusive of the MAWS, RWR, LWR and CMDS installations. Interestingly, the scale-model is shown equipped with twin wingtip-mounted escort jamming pods and a belly-mounted and DARE-developed SIVA HADF pod. The IAF is expected to select the EL/L-8251 jammers for the SEAD version of the Super Su-30MKI. The DEAD-optimised Super Su-30MKI, on the other hand, will be equipped with the SIVA pod along with four Kh-31P Krypton supersonic anti-radiation missiles.
The SEAD-optimised and DEAD-optimized Super Su-30MKIs will also be equipped with EADS/Cassidian’s Ariel Mk3 towed RF-decoys.
Ukraine-origin EW Suites for the IAF’s Mil family of helicopters are shown below.
The IAF’s 40 upgraded MiG-27UPGs each have an internal EW suite comprising the Chemring-built CMDS, BEL-built ‘indifferent’ Tarang Mk2 RWR and an ELTA Systems-supplied EL/L-8222 ASPJ pod. The upgraded MiG-21 Bisons, on the other hand, have ELTA-supplied CMDS and ‘indifferent’ DARE-developed and BEL-built Tarang Mk2 RWRs, plus the external EL/L-8222 ASPJ pods.
When it comes to the IAF’s fleet of Jaguar IS/IT fleet of strike aircraft, a total of 17 Jaguar IT tandem-seat aircraft and 20 single-seat Jaguar IS—built by HAL between 2005 and 2009—have been equipped with DARIN 2-standard missions avionics (comprising 30 LRUs in all), Chemring-built CMDS, ‘indifferent’ Tarang Mk2 RWRs, and internally-mounted ELTA Systems-supplied EL/M-8022 self-protection EW suite.
For the DARIN-3 upgrade programme (which was approved in 2008), an initial 58 single-seat Jaguar IS aircraft will be subjected to a ‘deep upgrade’ by HALBIT Avionics along with HAL’s Mission & Combat System Research & Design Centre (MCSRDC), Overhaul Division, and the IAF’s Aircraft & Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) and Software Development Institute (SDI). The first prototype of the DARIN 3-standard Jaguar IS took to the skies on November 28, 2012. Each DARIN 3-standard Jaguar IS will be fitted between 2014 and 2017 with ELTA-supplied EL/M-2032 multi-mode pulse-Doppler radar, HAL-Edgewood’s OSAMC core avionics computer, Elbit Systems’ Targo HMDS, EL/M-8022 jammer, BDL-built CMDS, SaabTech’s RWRs and LWRs, EADS/Cassidian’s MILDS-F MAWS, and Raytheon-supplied munitions control unit (MCU) for making the aircraft’s weapons management system compatible with the 15 different types of munitions that have been specified by the IAF. Following this, the IAF’s seven DARIN 1-standard Jaguar IMs too will be retrofitted with DARIN 3-standard avionics.
Self-Protection Suites For An-32RE Transport Aircraft
Airborne EW Suite-Related Sub-Systems Developed By
Indian Industry


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sathead3 said...

Prasun, you have a lot of intelligent, logical ideas in your posts but I am stumped with this "de-fang Pakistan with the help of US, UK, etc." thought. Where are you getting this from? It just sounds so ridiculous and jingoistic. Pakistan is no more than an irritant in India's side at this point. They have way too many internal problems and they realize it too. India has moved way beyond Pakistan in every sphere. It is in theirs and Chinese interest to keep the Kashmir wound festering and they will keep at it as long as they can. But that is all they can and will do. They are in no position to threaten India in any way, shape or form. Isn't it time we move on and past this Pakistan focused viewpoint?

manoj joshi said...

Prasun, were you there at the WWF meeting ? If so, I am amazed at your omniscience ! I would have liked to have met you, though.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SATHEAD3: VMT for your much valued compliments. As to where I’m getting this from, here are two pointers:

Back in the previous decade, sometime in 2005 or 2007 there was another wargaming exercise done by the CIA in which three specific scenarios were subjected to introspection & this was all reported in OUTLOOK India magazine then with accompanying charts & slides. Therefore, all this is not just a figment of my imagination. I disagree with you, though, about the festering issue of J & K serving China’s interests. China has traditionally had a mercantile relationship with Pakistan since the late 1960s since Pakistan’s civilian & military elite have always looked up to & still do towards Europe & North America in terms of strategic partnerships, investments & insurance—a fact openly acknowledged by China-based strategists & regional analysts. That’s why the bulk of Pakistan-specific financial aid for economic survival is still coming from the West. While India does not face any form of existential threats from anyone today, the mere fact that a much smaller country in every respect can remain a severe irritant for the past 65 years does raise pertinent questions about post-August 15, 1947 India’s ability to in excel in strategic visioning, threat containment & conflict management. Therefore, what transpired in the previous thread was not about expressing Pakistan-focussed viewpoints, but about elementary crystal ball-gazing about the future geo-strategic & geo-economic architecture of South & Central Asia.

To MANOJ JOSHI: Was there only for a brief moment & got most of my feedback on observations by the panelists from one of the ‘embedded informants’ (LoLz) present at the forum. Will definitely meet up with you in the near future by informing you in advance about my next visit to Delhi, kindly rest assured.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Exactly why are the BSF's ERJ-140 Legacies proceeding to Lisbon, Portugal, for their mandatory C/D checks when Embraer-authorised MRO facilities are available nearer to home in Singapore is anyone's guess!!!

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

remember #the Sudheer Choudhriee i mentioned sometime back just heard he is getting entry into UK House of Lords and the biggest irony is that he is referred as a person running care homes, wow

Prasun da if you remember sometime back i did mention that why cant India develop the 6 barrel airlift version of Smerch M at that time you had said its not needed, and in the last thread you did mention that Rosoboronexport and OFB have developed/developing 120 km version of Smerch M

I feel this 120 km version of Smerch M is nothing but the Pragati tacticle missile system that can well be airlifted by C130J-SH and are meant to replace the Prithvi 1 and since Prahaar has not been accepted by IA in present form it may be upgraded to 200+ km range to eventually replace the Prithvi 2

This is a case in point for making more C130J-SH in India as a replacement for HS748

AS for what you say about Pakistan just hope it doesnt happen that way as it will mean a highly volatile neighborhood and such situation will also be harmful for India.

As for breakup of Pak in 4 i believe 3 is more likely as West Punjab & Khyber Pakhtunkhwa will stay stay together no matter what with FATA being anybody and everybodys game and Skardu, Baltistan coming back to India.

It may also mean that minorities in both these region may well be pushed out to east in India, west in Afghan or south in Sindh and Balochistan.

While for Balochistan i hope it turn out to be ok with possible carving out of South Afghan in northern Pakhtun dominated areas thus leaving the tribal dominated areas that share border with Iran to be at peace. However with persecution and forced conversion happening in Sindh i dont know what future holds for them and with reportedly MQM steadily losing its hold over muhajeers i see Karachi turning into Beirut of 1980s with punjabi fuedal lords of Sindh and leaders of West punjab and K-P region doing anything to hold on to the only access to the sea.

Btw if this what happens no matter what you say i expect China will have to eventually give up control over Saksgam valley/Trans karakoram tract back to India since the only reason it holding on to that region id that it will have access to arabian sea from there.

Btw do the C130J-Sh of India have rocket pods for faster takoff and abrupt landing


Joydeep Ghosh

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Well, Three Cheers to the India-origin Born-Again arms-peddler, I guess. There's no missile called Pragati, rest assured. It was mis-reporting caused by a typo error & actually it is the Prahaar NLOS-BSM that will be showcased in Seoul. And nor are such weapons being displayed for the very first time outside India, as is being claimed by some 'desi' journalist. The DRDO has since 1992 been exhibiting at its own pavilions at various expos in Brazil, Germany, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand & Turkey. There was a time since 1989 when the DRDO's top-brass used to visit countries like Singapore for seeking R & D funds for the Tejas MRCA & Arjun MBT. In 1990 when Singapore wanted a 30% risk-sharing workshare in the Tejas MRCA's R & D effort, India refused!!! Prithvi-2 never entered service with anyone in India, only the SS-150 Prithvi & SS-250 Dhanush did. Solid-fuelled Prithvi-3 is the logical replacement for all existing SS-150 Prithvi-1s. C-130J Hercules will be the logical replacement for existing HS-748 Avros. All C-130J-30 Super Hercules are unarmed & cannot be armed.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

i know C130J-30SH of India are unarmed but what i asked that whether they have booster rocket pods for boosted takeoff and forced brake landings

i believe the 120 km version of Smerch M will indeed be 6 barrel and lighter for air transport


Joydeep Ghosh

AKHIL SURI said...

Prasun Ji ,

In reply to Mr.Saurav Jha's question you said that RJD, BSP, BJD, TMC & AIADMK will gravitate towards the NDA alliance because of the NaMo factor.

I do not think that RJD and TMC can afford to do that primarily because for them especially the TMC the Muslim votebank is of utmost importance . The RJD too is completely dependent on Muslim votes.

Infact the number of Muslims crossing over into West Bengal from Bangladesh has gone up drastically as it is being encouraged by the TMC.


raw13 said...

@Prasun, sathead3,

A lot has been reveled by the various leaks, and they are accurate. These leaks are from 2013 not last decade. It is the reason Obama calls Hollande(over 70+ millions french calls taped).

re: french anger

Let me quote analysis of snowden leaks wrt pak nukes:

"Pakistan appears at the top of charts listing critical U.S. intelligence gaps. It is named as a target of newly formed analytic cells. And fears about the security of its nuclear program are so pervasive that a budget section on containing the spread of illicit weapons divides the world into two categories: Pakistan and everybody else."

We can wish away and dream whatever we want but the reality is this. Pakistan nules are here and so are the TNW and they are not for show.

If you think Pakistan trusts China with their security, then you need to think again.

I guess the figure of 3000+ agents is in the same souces and in the sam class as 30000+ NATO containers missing in pakistan:

For me this is about sharing knowledge and learning. One of the most important aspect is know what is BS and what is real.

Bhaswar said...

@Prasun Da

Sir RAW13 seems to have a point there- its just baffling that Pakistan's warheads would be in Chinese custody. If that were so then command authority would be compromised, not to mention in the eventuality of a war by releasing said warheads China would be committing an act of aggression (since their refusal to release said warheads could, in that scenario, prevent a nuclear war. On the other hand if they do release the warheads then they too shall be responsible for the nuclear exchange that will follow and might even become targets for Indian retaliation).

Why would China take it upon itself to place itself in the middle of an India-Pakistan nuclear exchange?



I've been reading a few very recent reports on the MMRCA and there seems to be quite a significant range on the deadlines being proposed for the singing of such a deal. We have the deputy ACM of the Indian Air Force saying the deal will be signed by March 2014, the Dassualt CEO saying he is still hopeful of a deal by the end of this calendar/fiscal year but then a few unnamed industrial sources in France from an article I had read saying they don't see a deal being signed until mid-2015 at the earliest.

sachin_sathe said...


The IAF seems to be trying to standardize on avionics & other ops oriented subsystems on all its aircraft which can only be a good thing. Cant the Ew testing be done in parallel to the FOC or after the FOC if the internals of the LCA are Fitted but not with Internal Ew Setup(if that's possible) & use the EW pods which IAF its already using from Elta systems so that the FOC is not delayed anymore. ur thoughts?

The development of a smaller than Prahar BSM sound ridiculous since Prahar itself has only 150KM range.

There was news of Mahindra opening a aviation production (for its Australian company they acquired i think the a/c was NM-5) Does this mean that should the HAL refuse to produce PC-7's in favor of HTT-40 can in eventuality allow the IAF to pressure HAL out of its funk(so to speak) by creatin a stiff competition with pvt players like Mahindra & tata?I know NM-5 & PC-7 are diff aircraft however M&M is more than capable & being motivated to extend the line or even open a new line if it means check or a checkmate to HAL's monopoly over Aircraft production in India.(besides i believe HAL is handling to many projects for its size & thus is struggling to meet up Quality standards & Stick to delivery as well as cost schedules). ur thoughts?

raw13 said...

Husain Haqqani interview with NYTimes today:

Answers questions why Pak "allowed" drone attacks, why 4point solution to kashmir had no traction in pakistan and also explains that pakistan did not even listen to Chinese president, Jiang Zemin.

buddha said...

Erich Von Daniken - Chariots Of The Gods
is the narration truly acceptable?
I am quiet amazed to read it

RaviN said...

Will it be possible if US become more closer to Iran than SA?
If Hizbullah becomes no threat to Israel then it is quite possible.
Then SA will piss off. I know before the Islamic revolution in Iran, US and Iran were much better relation than SA and US.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Those rear-mounted rockets are not for export as they’re specific to only the US SOCOM. In any case, why should the IAF require them for its C-130J-30s when such aircraft will be used to & fro only those ALGs that have more than sufficient runway length? For operating out of shorter ALGs of the type found in Arunachal Pradesh, An-32REs are more than enough. 120km-range version of Smerch-M won’t be either four-barrelled or six-barrelled. They don’t need to be, because they will be located mostly in rear-areas during wartime & therefore will not be reqd to travel along exterior lines of communication. Consequently, such MBRLs will travel only along asphalted road & railroads & in extreme cases, the C-17As can transport them out to the IAF’s major air bases from where they will resume their onward journey by road or rail.

TO AKHIL SURI: It’s still too early to hazard a guess on the final moves of RJD or BJD or even the TMC. And after the Jamaat-e-Ulema-e-Hind’s recent statements regarding NaMo, it appears that electoral polarisation aming communal lines is unlikely to happen, especially given the way NaMo is going about galvanising the BJP’s party cadres. Consequently, none of the regional identity-based political parties can afford to turn a blind eye to such developments anymore. Already the NC has publicly come out in the open about what it thinks about the NaMo factor. And as for the alleged large-scale infiltration of Bangladeshis into WB, can you kindly quote some reliable references for your claims? I ask this because the TMC may well have a stranglehold over WB’s law enforcement agencies, but it by no means controls the BSF.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAW13: Indeed a lot has been revealed in 2013 by Snowden etc. But what’s the vintage of the leaked info? Surely it just can’t all be of 2013 vintage as well! One therefore must tread carefully & not assume that all the leaks pertain to developments that have taken place this year. Very true, Pakistan’s WMDs are not for show, but does that justify nuclear sabre-rattling at the same time? Also of course Pakistan does not want to put all its eggs into the Chinese basket & therefore decided to acquire the Nodong-1s from DPRK & that’s why in mid-1999 when OP Badr was underway & the PA commenced missile-launch drills in the Deosai Plains with its Shaheen-1s & Ghaznavis, China immediately clamped down & put an end to that, following which the PA’s GHQ began doing the same with its Nodong-1s, but this time only to be told by Dr A Q ‘Bhopali’ Khan that the Nodong-1s can only be armed with conventional warheads since no nuclear warheads for this missile were available. That’s how Pakistan’s nuclear sabre-rattling ended up in a fizzle during OP Badr. As for figures on the exact number of OGWs from the US that gained entry into Pakistan, just wait for the Memogate Commission’s Report to be released, or better still, to be sold to Al Jazeera for a paltry US$10,000/- & then going viral in cyberspace, just like the Abbotabad Commission Report. Hussain Haqqani’s interview doesn’t explain why the 4-point formula has no political takers today, nor does it reveal anything about all the intense work & effort that was put in by both countries between 2004 & 2007 to make it a reality. Lastly, it’s absolutely true that Pakistan did not listen to Jiang Zemin in 1999 & even to Xi Jinping in January 2013, & it paid a backbreaking price for both follies—both of which led to the PA being globally labelled as a rogue entity & Pakistan being labelled as MUNAFIQATISTAN. And Jiang also played a stellar role in all this when his PSB recorded the telephone conversation between the then COAS Gen Pervez Musharraf & his Chief of Staff Lt Gen Muhammad Aziz (in May 1999) & passed on a copy of this recording to India, which, when made public, truly exposed the PA as a rogue army. Thus, as one can see, for me too this is about sharing knowledge and learning. One of the most important aspects is know what is BS and what is real & that can only be done when one is not afflicted with selective amnesia.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: You are yet again needlessly trying to tie yourself up in knots. India has already stated in her draft nuclear doctrine that in the event of a nuclear strike against India, not only the country launching such weapons will invite massive retaliation, but also those states that have helped such a country acquire the capability to possess & launch such weapons will be held accountable by her. And why would China take it upon itself to place itself in the middle of an India-Pakistan nuclear exchange? Well, that bridge can be crossed ONLY AFTER a nuclear exchange has taken place & all forensic evidence regarding the exact origin of the fissile materials used by any Pakistan-delivered n-warhead can easily be obtained, analysed & ascertained with great accuracy from Ground Zero. And since China would never want that to happen, it will continue to retain control over such n-warheads & make them available for use only as political weapons, & not for n-sabre-rattling since this only serves to diminish the deterrent value of such WMDs, as had happened in 1999 when the PA violated the gentleman’s agreement with China by initiating OP Badr against India after wrongly assuming that India will never even wage a conventional war against Pakistan after the May 1998 nuclear weapons tests. India then called Pakistan’s bluff & climbed the escalatory ladder even under the nuclear overhang by committing not only the IA (OP Vijay), but also the IAF (OP Safed Sagar) & IN (OP Talwar) & Pakistan just couldn’t retaliate in kind, while China became extremely pissed off with its so-called all-weather friend.

To TRUTHSEEKER: The reality is not what it seems from a financial standpoint. Just read this:

Bottomline: UPA-2 really fucked-up the country big-time over the past 3 years.

Interesting analysis on China-India relations:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SACHIN SATHE: Leave alone FOC, how can even IOC be achieved when the MRCA is not equipped to even the basic operational standards? Resorting to usage of ELTA’s EL/L-8222 ASPJ will result in the entire avionics architecture requiring a redesign, a task that alone will take 2 years. All over the world, it is the pre-production prototypes (PV) that are fully equipped with ALL mandated/specified avionics, instruments & accessories in a staggered manner & are subjected to certification-related flight-trials. ONLY AFTER this is completed does the process of rolling out LSPs begins. As the term LSP denotes, such aircraft are produced by the OEM at a slow rate so that the skilled human resources at the assembly-line acquire a credible degree of proficiency in production-engineering. Only after this does the production run for SP-series gets underway at an accelerated pace. In case of Tejas Mk1, elementary common-sense has taken flight from the decision-makers of ADA & that’s why one is witnessing the shameful spectacle of only LSP-7 & LSP-8 being equipped with operational-standard avionics, instruments & accessories—a task that should have been accomplished on the PVs itself!
All talk of a 120km-range NLOS-BSM is indeed total baloney, since a missile like Prahaar with 150km-range can surely fly out to 120km. It’s like saying that the 150km-range SS-150 Prithvi-1 can’t strike targets 80km away, when it is well-known to all that the IA’s GSQR clearly specifies the Prithvi-1’s minimum range as being 40km.
Mahindra Aerospace can indeed take up the licenced final-assembly of the PC-7 Mk2 BTT & can also provide depot-level MRO support. HAL too can do so if the MoD directs HAL to take up this job. But Mahindra Aerospace will definitely be able to do a much better job & at a much faster rate.

To BUDDHA: A far better option than the book is to go to Youtube & watch all five seasons of the HISTORY CHANNEL series called ANCIENT ALIENS.

To RAVIN: Why not? It’s absolutely possible, since the US already was Iran’s closest ally right up to 1979. Hezbollah will be quite busy inside Syria for the next few years & won’t be able to sustain a two-front scenario & will therefore have to stop needling Israel. After all, Hezbollah’s & Iran’s & Iraq’s Shia brethren are facing existential threats inside Syria from the proxies of KSA, Qatar, UAE & possibly Jordan & not from Israel. The Sunni-dominated GCC is playing with fire in Syria & thought that it would be a cakewalk just like it was in Libya—not realising that there’s now a parallel, contiguous & more populous Shia crescent stretching from Iran till Syria that has far greater strategic depth than the GCC put together. And for Iran too, the GCC is far more threatening militarily than Israel ever was. But where else can Riyadh go & who else can it approach if it decides to ditch the US? Certainly not Russia or China or the EU.

Bhaswar said...

IF all of this is true then what is America waiting for? It is a little difficult to stomach their claims of intervention and accurate strikes- considering the number of innocents they have killed in said accurate strikes. How accurate they shall be in targeting these sites is not known, they don't exactly want India to come out unshackled of its pestilential western cousins- that would mean having a potential power reshuffling in the region which could put their interests out of balance. I just cannot see my self trusting them with this.

sachin_sathe said...

Regarding HAL i think they need to do a serious stategy rethink as they are not even able to deliver Su-30MKI on schedule they seem to be falling short of their delivery schedule every year.
Also Regarding LCA 1st of all 2TD's,5PV,s & 8 LSP sounds bit too much for an aircraft that to without naval prototypes i mean smaller air forces have 15 a/c as a squadron strength heck IAF alone gives its own official sqd strength as 16-18 a/c the fact that LSP's are being used to do testing & that by HAL & ada not(CEMILAC or other IAF agency) shows that there is a serious flaw in management process of the project & the HAL & ADA need to be streamlined with qualified MANAGERS(not scientists there is big diff there) as the biggest issues are managerial level. wht do u think?

Pankaj said...

Dear Sir

Is the BSF capable of defending The
International Border in Jammu Sector

These days they are being heavily shelled by the Pakistanis

Is the BSF well equipped or we will
have to deploy the Army

If TWENTY FIVE Posts are being shelled at the same time then it looks like the Pakis DO NOT take BSF seriously

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

to me you said 'Rosoboronexport & OFB are developing 120 km version of Smerch M' but to #SachinSathe you say '120 km NLOS is balony' may be i am confusing with rocket and missile

just heard India China signed BDCA but do you really believe it will help India as several people on TV have opposed BDCA

The 'White paper on Tibet' released by China was odd timing or deliberate, whats your opinion

whatever you said to #Ravin may be good with SA refusing SC seat and SA intel chief saying there is need to reassess SA-US relation i think middile east is heading for a massively volatile time

Btw in last thread you said that the barrel of India made 155mm Bofors burst bcoz of faulty fuse, if you remember i had asked about sometime back DRDO working on a artillery fuse, is it the same artillery fuse if not then who is the creator of this disaster fuse, its time DRDO quickly rectifies the situation by presenting its own arty fuse


Joydeep Ghosh

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PANKAJ: Pakistan does not regard Jammu sector as being part of the IB, but the WB, as I had explained earlier. What this means is that the WB like the LoC is not entirely sacrosanct & can be altered by force. Shelling is only being done by 81mm mortars. The BSF too has 81mm mortars & even LFG 105mm light guns for retaliation. 25 posts being subjected to shelling/firing is quite a low figure, since there are almost 250 posts starting from the WB & extending all the way up to the AGPL, & therefore the situation isn’t that alarming.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Rockets fired from MBRLs aren’t NLOS-BSMs. The BDCA will further streamline the border patrolling protocols followed by both countries & will reduce the risks of accidental spillovers. It was previously opposed b y those who were unaware about the exact clauses of the BDCA, meaning ill-informed folks speculating based on total ignorance of the realities involved. Fuze malfunctions are caused either due to improper storage & over-exposure to the vagaries of the weather, or due to improper installation of the fuzes on the artillery rounds, or human error when pre-programming the fuzes. The fuzes for 155mm rounds are all supplied by ECIL & are of South African origin.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SACHIN SATHE: If one has to move up the business value-chain, then what is reqd is a top-down approach in which there is apex-level corporate restructuring & reform. In HAL’s case, this can only be implemented by the MoD through divestment so that HAL becomes an autonomous public-listed corporate entity that is free to go head-hunting for the best brains in the business. The currfent mess that HAL finds itself in is due primarily to its micro-management b y the MoD’s Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies, which in turn prevents HAL from appointing the right kind of Board of Directors, & the management rot begins from there & reveals itself via dismal productivity-levels.

As for ADA, five PVs are more than enough to complete the entire flight certification programme & yet this has not happened & has instead dragged on to the LSP stage as well. Again, this is a text-book case of the entire R & D project being misconceived at the outset, i.e. a project conceived on illogical fundamentals & then trying to defend the illogic through perceived logical justifications. As a result, the following deficiencies have now cropped up:
1) The integrated EW suite is nowhere near to being certified as being airworthy.
2) Integration of the TARGO HMDS with the on-board fire-control system has not yet been achieved & consequently no HMDS-qued firing of Vympel R-73E WVRAAM has taken place so far.
3) No MRAAM has been selected as yet for Tejas Mk1 MRCA, although it is a foregone conclusion that the Derby & not Astra Mk1 will finally be selected since it is the only available option on the table.
4) The EHUD rangeless ACMI system’s airborne component hasn’t been flight-certified as yet.
5) All-composite nose radome is nowhere in sight despite the CSIR & NAL having developed & delivered about 70 similar radomes for the EL/M-2032 MMR-equipped Jaguar IMs in the previous decade.
6) The long-overdue full-flight simulator (tactical mission simulator) has yet to surface & without it no pilot conversion can take place for even IOC-1.

In light of all the above, it can safely be inferred that the much-touted IOC-1 hasn’t even commenced as far as the IAF is concerned. Perhaps the least that A K Antony can now do is issue a clarification in Parliament & state the truth for once, for a change.

AKHIL SURI said...

Prasun Ji ,

Here are a couple of links that highlight the large scale influx of Muslims into West Bengal ( and other parts of India) from Bangladesh :

Mamata Banerjee is following the same strategy as the CPM. Her party is issuing PAN card , Aadhar , Passport etc to Bangladeshi muslims so that they can come & vote in India . As for the BSF , they are notorious for allowing Bangladeshis to enter India in return for cash.


Bhaswar said...


Apparently nine agreements have been signed between India and China- including one on trans-border rivers. Can you highlight the details of these agreements, have they been framed while keeping our interests in mind and represented? Specially the trans-border river agreement, what are its specifics, have we had to compromise on something?

Subir said...


1.What is the Saabtech Rwr model which will be installed in super su30mki ?
Is MiG-29UPG having this same RWR from Saabtech ?

Is the Saabtech Rwr also included in Jaguar DARIN 3?

2.How does this new Rwr fare against LPI emitters and agile frequency hopping radars with low sidebeams ?

3.There are only 2 Cassidian dual colour IR,UV Maws apertures visible on the su30 model ? Are there any more and where are they situated ?

4.The MAWS arrangement on super su30mki only covers the upper hemisphere. What about the lower hemisphere ?

5. What is the difference between the two variants of ELL-8251 escort jamming pod ?Which variant will IAF buy ?Is any of these aesa based like Virgilius ?

6.Kh-31P has a 70-110 km range only.Why doesnt IAF acquire the 200+km range Kh-31PD and 245 km range Kh-58 ARM for its upgraded su-30mki ??

7.An Su-30mki can carry 6 Kh-31 alonside AAM armaments.Why just carry 4 of them ?
Is there any Russian ARM like MBDA ALARM which can deploy a chute and start drifting once it looses the emitter and reject the chute and fire its 2nd solid rocket motor and take on the target the moment it starts emitting ?

8.Will all of 310 Su30mki get Cassidian Ariel mk3 TRD under super upgrade program ?

9.You said Dare developed MSWS will also be installed on Jaguar DARIN-3. How many Maws apertures will be there in this Jaguar msws package ?Will they be located throughout the wings and airframe or be pylon mounted-MILDS-F ?

10.What are those two wing-tip mounted escort jamming pods in the SU-30 scalemodel?Are they Sorbitsya ?

11.How many Mil Mi-8,17v1 and 17v5 are being subjected to the DARE self-ptotection package ? Are all Mi-8,17 getting MAWS,RWR and CMDS ? How many Mi-8,17v1,17v5 will get Adros IR jammers ?

12.Whats the difference between Adros KT-03UE and KT-01AVE? Externally they look the same. Are these Adros jammers based on 1980s Soviet HotBrick jammers of Mi-8 and Mi-25 family ?

13.How effective are these KT-03 and KT-01AVE jammers against the latest MANPADS with imaging infrared seekers and dual IR,UV filters ? How do they fare against thier Western softkill IR jammers from BAE ?
Does these jammers emit UV radiation also coz the latest seekers home in on UV radiations of the target aircraft once the onboard guidance computer senses it is being subjected to jamming .

Can any of these jammers succesfully seduce and decoy the latest-MBDA Mistral or Igla-S ?

14.If these soft kill jammers are so usefull, then why are medium to heavy lift helicopters switching over to DIRCM? Their designers saythat the latest generation of MANPADS and IR homing AAM are almost imposiible to jam with thses soft-kill jammers.

15.Which IR jammer will HAL Dhruv Mk3 and 4 get ?

Anonymous said...

Subir, this guy is full of bullshit, and kids like you are falling for him. Go to defenceforumindia or BR forums and see how they mock him for his lies and BS. He does not know anything man.. he is just making stuff up because he is a lonely guy in his 50s looking for attention.

Bhaswar said...

Sir how can the Super-MKI EW suite be called DARE designed, they didn't design the RWR, MAWS and LWR themselves did they? The super-MKIs will not have internal jammers, why not go with the Virgilius on the UPG which as per you has impressed the IAF?

Also why not anti-radiation weapons like the Kh-58UShKE which are going to be there on the FGFA/PAK-FA?

Also, what exactly does the SIVA pod do? Is it an indigenous development?

RD said...


We can understand that if Chinese army asks us to stop work near border, as the border is not properly demarcated & we both have different versions about border marking records. Previously thought that atleast LoC is well demarcated.
But how come Pakistan force us to stop work in our area & the most irony is that they r holding our area illegally. And most importantly nothing strategic work was building such as bunkers but only parks & libraries. What India has done about infrastructure projects coming up in PoK apart from just 'requesting' China to stay away.

raw13 said...

No one in the world (including UN) regards Jammu Sector as IB. The whole of J&K is a disputed region with numerous UN resolutions (and observers stationed there).

@Anon 5:44PM
What a good recommendation, especially if you want to become bigotted, racist and hate monger!!!
You will find more technical info on one thread here than most of BR.

@Prasun, my response was wrt de-nuking of Pakistan. The evidence i gave was to support that its not going to happen. Just as the predictions that Pakistan will not last for the last 60+ yrs. With regards to using TNW/nukes, as my granfather always said "don't keep a gun at home if you are afraid to point it at someone and pull the trigger". In pakistan we are not afraid of pulling the trigger!!! this is one blessing we have in abundance :-).

Ps. I strongly believe Pakistan should not keep any of its nukes once Kashmir issue is solved, but we have to get there.

Vikram Guha said...

@ Anonymous 5:44 PM

defenceforumindia and BR forums ?

Two forums that are well known for having a retard only membership rule ?

Subir said...

Sir,Both KT-03UE and KT-01AVE arent DIRCM. They are softkill IR jammers.

Anon,Comparing BR to Trishul would be like comparing a Merc S class with a Maruti Esteem. If u know so much pls feel free to share u knowledge and enlighten us.

reddy said...

@ Anonymous 5:44 PM

Let us be practical before bashing..

check any of Mr.Prasun posts and his style of presentation.

He gets information firsthand and from genuine and authorised sources and presents us directly in the form of posters and weblinks.

He draws conclusions from those resources and is very clear and logical.

Rather than portraying him in a bad light, and that too pointing to some forums and individuals what you are showing in real is how stupid you are.

If you or some one else do not like his analysis either due to logical reasons or due to erroneous information, please show proof that his analysis is bad/erroneous and he is spreading faulty information.

Rather than hiding behind anonymous handle and pointing to other resources, you are declaring yourself a LOSER.

Anonymous said...


My grandmother too used to tell us/me so many things so many times which she feels good for us, But I argue her all the time just don't tell me what to do what not to do, but tell me the reasons why you want me to do that or do not want me to do that. But she never had any logic behind her suggestions because of the reason her parents forced such things on her. some of her suggestions were: do not apply oil at night, and do not comb at night, finish eating before your wet feet gets dried, do not cut nails at night or in the house....such as.. hundreds of suggestions which i feel insanely over whelming..and really annoying.. often not backed up by some real reasons or logic. As a learned individual we should develop such logical thinking naturally and apply general thinking rather blindly following grand mother/father just because of the reasons, they are not Einsteins..

On the other hand what your grandfather forgot to tell you is what happens after pulling the trigger. also he forgot to tell you more about books and pens rather guns, provided he himself might not had a clue regarding the power of books and pens.

also he forgot to tell you, plan to mitigate the collateral damage before you pull the trigger/ before doing something bad..

Rather bluntly saying pakistan do not get break up and what will and will not happen, such things may be best left to the time.

who knows in future pakistan might get brake up into 4 and india might brake up into south and north.

you got nukes for kashmir, and we got nukes for pak.

the maximum use of your nukes is not for nuking India but for kashmir/pakistan so that those areas would be useless in Indian hands.

your guys real intension is not kashmir but want to see whole planet as islamic and do not want to see anyone other than sunnis.

after all if you can be bosting and being proud for just 1400 years of islamic history what others could think of themselves. even you dont know fully and do not want to know who your forefathers were... pathetic..


sorry to bother you...sometimes you seem to be a nice guy and in the same sense, sometimes am bad too.. and now am..

Mr. Ra 13 said...

PKS is good only for being the next RM and Pakistan666 is good only for self annihilating itself, now with its own nukes.

Bhaswar said...

@Prasun Da- Most probably you've seen this-

Interesting talk between Haqqani, Reuel Marc Gerecht and Bill Roggio. A lot of echoes (if not our right approximations) of what you've been stating sir.

Anonymous said...

Subir and Guha, who's going to bother with telling you kids anything, when you are looking for scraps of info on this board, and your hero has a tendency to delete anything that makes him look bad. who'd take the effort to collect info and post it here? Guha, if DFI, BR have retards only rule, you will surely fit right in.

Take a look on current BR thread on journalists, it will show you everything u need to know about your expert.

Vikram Guha said...

@Anon 11:37 pm

If you have evidence to show that Prasun Sengupta is full of "bullshit" why don't you provide evidence.

Instead you post Anonymously. I at least post with my real name as do many other posters .

Good luck with gold digging in Nigeria & keep on clowning

Bhaswar said...

@Anonymous 11.37 P.M.- OH I am sure Prasun Da isn't all knowing or so haloed that he can't make a mistake, I am just trying to find out any instance where he's claimed to the contrary. You disagree with what he has to say? Open your own blog, post in the aforementioned sites "debunking" what's posted here, by all means contest his statements in whichever forum you see fir. BUT how about reserving that for YOURSELF and NOT patronizing US with unwelcome and uncalled for "advise"?

Also while you're at it do point out the specifics mentioned in this particular piece of Prasun Da's which are incorrect, also furnish said corrections with details/corroboration/references. We shall all be much obliged, I am sure.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AKHIL SURI: The weblinks you’ve posted state that 1) Bangladeshis & Nepalis are entering illegally through Nepal, & 2) influx of Muslims to WB from other parts of India, notably the North East & not specifically from Bangladesh. Lastly, while BPL cards & ration cards can be issued by a state govt, UID cards & passports can’t. Yes, the BSF are notorious for being unable to keep foolproof tabs on the porous India-Bangladesh border, but that is not the BSF’s fault. Instead, it is due to 1) the Centre’s inability to resolve the issue of ‘enclaves’ or chit-mahals since the early 1970s, & 2) the Govt of India’s failure to legalise & streamline the export of cattle to Bangladesh. It is therefore unfair to take a broad sweep against the TMC & paint it as being opportunistic when facts-on-the-ground indicate otherwise. And before the TMC, the Left Front-led state govt also faced the same dilemmas.

To BHASWAR: I’m sure publications like THE HINDU will soon upload the full texts of all the agreements inked. Meanwhile, here’s one on the BDCA:

Of course all the agreements safeguard India’s core national interests, let there be no doubt about that. As for interpreting the implications, there are different views. For instance, here’s one of them:

The problem with such interpretations is that they view events with Indian optics, instead of taking an objective stance. For instance, take the issue of China’s decision-making hierarchy involving the Office of the President’s Politburo, State Council (equivalent of India’s Union Cabinet) & the PLA. The question of the PLA being a standalone & untouchable centre-of-power doesn’t even arise because when it comes to grand-strategising in China, it is the Central Military Commission, headed by the President, that sets the direction & objectives, & the Politburo & State Council all fall in line.

The Super Su-30MKI EW suite’s architecture was designed by DARE. ELT-568 internal jammers are highly likely to be included as well, although DARE has not yet shown them publicly on any scale-model display of the Super Su-30MKI. Kh-58UShKE ARM wasn’t available when the IAF decided to procure Su-30MKIs. As the brochure explains, the SIVA pod, designed & developed by DARE, is used for accurately obtaining the location of ground-based RF emitters. Without this, no ARM can be launched.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) The RWR, LWR & MAWS on the Rudra were all developed by AVITRONICS of South Africa & can also be found on the Su-30MKM. AVITRONICS has later in the last decade bought over by SaabTech. AS for the MiG-29UPG, the photos reveal everything & do take a close look at them. 2) The RWR is on par with the latest that is available & is far superior to anything developed by the DRDO thus far. 3) The scale-models clearly show four MAWS on the airframe. The remaining two are belly-mounted. 5) That info is available at IAI’s website. Obviously both will be bought. 6) What’s the use of acquiring longer-range ARMs when there is no way of ascertaining the accurate location of hostile ground-based emitters from such standoff distances? 7) And where will the Su-30MKI’s WVRAAMs & BVRAAMs be carried? ARMs are not meant to operate like anti-radar drones. 8) No. Only those equipped with escort-jamming pods will have them. 9) Pylon-mounted MILDS-F is only for the Rafale as of now. MSWS apertures are standard for all combat aircraft. 10) Already explained above in the narrative, so why ask again? 11) That retrofit project has not yet commenced & is still being debated upon at IAF HQ. 12) The information posters explain everything. 13) They’re not soft-kill systems like flares & chaff. They’re DIRCMs designed to physically irradiate the IIR seekers & cripple them, be they of Mistral or Igla-S. DIRCMs with laser-beam emitters on the other hand are optimised for use against high-velocity missiles like WVRAAMs, MRAAMs & BVRAAMs. Heavylift helicopters are nimble & cannot manoeuvre to safety like medium-lift helicopters, LUHs or attack helicopters & therefore, to protect them against salvo-launches of up to 3 MANPADS simultaneously, heavylift helicopters have DIRCMs capable of projecting laser-beams in quick succession against the inbound MANPADS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RD: The devil always lurks within the details. The LoC was demarcated ONLY ON MAPs. It was NEVER DILINEATED on the ground with pillars. That’s why just like the LAC, the ground perceptions on where & how the LoC flows tend to differ. That was the excuse given by Gen Pervez Musharraf in late 1998 to the then Pakistani PM Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif when he launched OP Badr with the tacit approval of Mian Sahab—all of which the then NDA govt in India failed to comprehend & this was the reason why the Govt of India at that time was against the Indian Army’s justified request to do a ‘reverse-Kargil’. Had the IA’s request been granted, then areas like the Haji Pir bulge, the Lipa Valley & the Bugina bulge—all of which contain the best infiltration routes used by terrorists from POK—could have been captured I less than 20 days. Had the IA then secured the Bugina bulge, the Sino-Pakistani Neelam-Jhelum Valley hydro-electric power project would never have taken off. That’s why I believe that entire story about what exactly transpired between May & August 1999 has still not come out in the open, especially in terms of what transpired between the govt & the armed forces in terms of defining the higher directions of a limited high-intensity war involving the IA & IAF & how/why were the armed forces’ recommendations rejected by the civilian decision-makers & how expensive a mistake this has since turned out to be & how can such mistakes be avoided in future—issues that were deviously sidestepped by the drafters of the Kargil Commission Report.

To RAW13: Regretably, factually, you’re on the wrong footing regarding the IB/WB issue. The ‘legality’ of the Instrument of Accession signed between India & the princely state of J & K was never questioned by the UNSC. In fact, it was acknowledged by the UNSC & especially by the US & UK, since the Instrument of Accession was a formula devised on the advice of Lord Louis Mountbatten. The 813km-long LoC runs from a place called Sangam close to Chhamb all the way up north to map-grid reference NJ-9842 in Ladakh, following which the AGPL takes over. There is also a 256km-long stretch in Jammu Division between Boundary Pillar 19 and Sangam, which was part of the erstwhile princely state of J & K. It is this stretch that is known in India as the International Boundary (IB), while Pakistan refers to it as the Working Boundary (WB) since it maintains that the border agreement (the so-called standstill agreement) was inked between the princely state of J & K and Pakistan, and not between India & Pakistan.
About the future of India-Pakistan relations, I too look forward to the day when the two WMD-capable countries will co-exist just like Canada & the US do & have soft borders of the type prevailing up till 1965 & will together embrace Afghanistan as the youngest brother within SAARC & create a contiguous economic/customs union that is of equal benefit to all stakeholders & with malice towards none. Hopefully, visionary statesmanship from all involved stakeholders will take us there.

Bhaswar said...

Sir can you list out the position and number of RWR, LWR and MAWS. A layman like me cannot make that out from the pictures. For example what sensors populate the tail sting and what sphere/sector do they cover?

Also if the ELT-568 is to be present then what's the need for the EL/L-8251 on the birds? Alos will the towed decoys be present on all of them? If so then how will the birds accommodate wingtip escort jammer.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA, REDDY, BHASWAR & Mr.RA 13: There’s a saying that goes like this: those who go about manipulating history themselves end up getting manipulated.

Entities signing off as Anon@5.44PM & Anon@11.37PM & their patrons in some chat-forums fall into this category. I’m sure you all will recall how such chaps had claimed (with CGI) & continue to claim that:
1) The Agni-3 & Agni-5 are SLBMs.
2) The Rohini/Revathi S-band 3-D radars are DRDO-developed (when in reality the radar was originally known as TRS-17 & was developed in Poland & the DRDO eventually bought this radar’s IPRs & customised its design so that it morphed into Rohini & Revathi).
3) The S-band Arudhra MPR is DRDO-developed (when it reality it is the scalable EL/M-2084 MMR from IAI’s Elta Systems Division).
4) The Nagan & Mihir sonars developed by NPOL are in service with the IN (when in reality the Nagan has been ditched in favour of the ultra low-frequency ACTAS & a competition is now underway for selecting a new-generation ultra low-frequency dunking sonar of foreign origin).
5) The RWR-118 is a gold-standard RWR being developed by the DRDO (when in reality the Rudra helicopter-gunship now sports the SaabTech-built RWR as clearly shown in the photo above).
6) The Tejas Mk1 MRCA has already attained IOC-1 & is on course to attend IOC-2.

The list goes on & on, but suffice to say that such folks, suffering from acute inferiority complex (& hence hiding their true identities even in the chat-forums they frequent), are essentially psychotic/compulsive/persistent retards who are spectacularly incapable of presenting compelling & coherent counter-narratives—all of which brings to my mind a comment made earlier by a fellow blogger who signs off as MESSENGER: Never argue with an idiot.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: For full hemispheric coverage, RWRs, LWRs & MAWS always have a distributed architecture, i.e. six units of each mounted above & below the airframe (in the fuselage or tail-section or tail-sting or wing-root or on weapons pylons) of fixed-wing combat aircraft like Su-30MKI. On this aircraft’s tail-sting, on either side are the CMDS countermeasures dispensers, while at the centre of the tail-sting is the housing for Ariel Mk3 towed-decoy. ELT-568 AESA-based jammer is meant for only self-protection against BVRAAM when the missile’s Ku-band radar seeker is active. On the MiG-29UPG, for instance, two ELT-568 apertures are located in each wing-root facing forwards, while a solitary ELT-568 aperture caters to the tail-section. EL/L-8251 pods are meant to jam ground-based fire-control/target engagement radars of SHORADS, MR-SAM & LR-SAM systems. Ariel Mk3 towed-decoys will be present on only those Super Su-30MKIs that are customised for carrying out suppression of enemy air-defence (SEAD) with EL/L-8251 escort jamming pods & destruction of enemy air-defence (DEAD) with the SIVA/Kh-31P combination.

Bhaswar said...

Isn't there a MAWS aperture aft of the canopy? Also where are the 4 MAWS sensors places other than the 2 on the belly? Also where are the RWR and LWR and where will the ELT-568 apertures be placed on the MKI? So basically, 6 MAWS, 6 RWR and 6 LWR?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: MAWS & LWR. MAWS is also clearly visible on the wing-roots. RWR is on the frontal wing area & on either edge of tail-sting. ELT-568 installation will be similar to that on MiG-29UPG. Yes.

Bhaswar said...

BUT that doesn't add up to 6 RWR and are the MAWS and LWR placed together because otherwise the number of sensors visible doesn't add up.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Have uploaded new data & illustrations to complete the narrative above.

Pierre Zorin said...

I have one more word to add to the rantings: troll. I still believe someone here is playing the Fletch lives role by deliberately taking on Anon handle and like a schizophrenic playing a double role.It's just of late that it appears something is not quite right. Very little input from the likes of Mr Ra 13, SBM etc. If someone is deliberately assuming different handles please stop! Above all please do not deliberately ruin a good informative and interesting blog by trolling under Anon handles. You are free to come - free to leave and the blog is itself free. There are no advertising so PKS doesn't make money even if he did peddle BS as you say. I would rather listen to "BS" from PKS than dodgy stories with NO facts or truth behind. Like they say in the legal world - innocent till proven guilty. Bring in news and information that contradicts PKS and we will pronounce guilty verdict. Perhaps he is not always right but I have found out that he is certainly almost always right.

Littlemaster said...

1. Does MiG-29UPG has any MAWS?

2. When will super sukhoi upgrade begin?

3. Are all AN-32RE having adros T-32c multifunction Ircm pod.Havent see any on upgraded An-32RE?

4. What will be the MMR of super su-30.Will it be Mires aesa?

5. In some previous comments on Su-30mk upgrade package you have said that each of them will get towed radar decoy,Ariel mk3.Why did all of a sudden IAF did away with this and reserved Trd for seda and dead aircrafts only?

6. When will IAF place orders for elt-568 aesa jammers for su-30 ? Untill then how can you be sure that it will having Virgilus.

7. Adros IRCM for Mi-17v5 is mounted just beyond the engines. But in all those pics of Mi-17v5 which is there in electronic media,this jammer is absent.Is this IR jammer installed on select Mi-17v1/5 only & not the whole inventory.

Littlemaster said...

8. Is elta 8222 ASPJ internally installed in mig27 upg?

Mr. Ra 13 said...

"Pierre Zorin said... Very little input from the likes of Mr Ra 13."

It is because here I am sinking under the tsunami of well analyzed information and feeling very happy to read all of that. However wherever I feel like jumping, I too jump up.

sachin_sathe said...

From the above url it seems tht IAF is going all out in upgrading its EW,ELINT,COMINT abilities but does a small purchase(just 5 a/c) make sence?
Also, The CABS AEW project uses Embraer ERJ-145 which also supports R-99B remote sensing a/c would it not be possible & may be cheaper to convert R-99B as CABS did with R-99AEW setup? This would also standardize a/c type may be equipment type as THE CABS project seems to have come up with goodies which seem to work as per design specs(atleast as seen from public source) ur thoughts?

Vikram Guha said...

@ Pierre Zorin -

Interesting thought , however I have a different take to it .

In this blog Prasun has over the years said things about GOI , arms dealers etc that are not necessarily music to their ears.

So how do they retaliate ? By inserting news in forums like Bharat Rakshak to defame Prasun . Link below :

Infact( if you check the link above) they are talking about a thread dedicated to Prasun ( apart from Pravin Swahney & Manoj Joshi) bashing .

Maybe in a few days from now, thanks to such forums we will also get to know that Prasun is actually a yoga guru with Swiss bank accounts and a fascination for Army Generals who plan to stage coups against Pappu & party .

But what else can be expected from such forums who only allow retards to become members. Nuff said .


abs said...

Posting after a long time, but I have only 2 queries.
Earlier you have mentioned the IA needs APCs to act as personnel carriers and heavy ICVs to neutralise the ATGM possessing dug-in infantry of the enemy. So does that mean the IA is now looking to use its MBTs and Rudra Gunships and LAHs for doing the anti-tank jobs?

As far as SEAD and DEAD missions go, could you elaborate on how the IAF plans to carry out such missions? It seems that the DEAD optimised Su-30 MKIs would be used only for neutralising highly fortified strategic installation's air defence. Though I'm not sure about the usage of Su-30 MKIs for SEADs.

Bhaswar said...

Peddling the agenda of arms dealers by furnishing information to the general populace (Us)? Boy, IF only I knew that is one of my fundamental rights to intervene and have a say in the decisions of the Defence Acquisition Council. Oh wait, I don't, in fact I have no say whatsoever in said acquisitions but Prasun Da and his pay-masters (in all their wisdom) have decided to further their nefarious agenda through a blog and "Mango people" who populate it. Whatever else you may have to state, this at least proves that sans any rebuttal till now you have been resorting to ad hominem and hyperbole.

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Sir, what sort of network and data sharing capabilities exist on the Su-30MKIs as of now?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIERRE ZORIN: VMT, Actually, Mr.RA 13 is a ‘waverider’ who always pitches in with his climactic & prophetic one-liner punchlines in almost every thread, which I always have & will continue to welcome.

To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Not yet, but the new-design underwing weapons pylon meant for the Rafale can also be integrated with the MiG-29UPG’s wings. 2) Hopefully by early 2015. 3) Those IRCMs are not installed on An-32Res. 4) It will be the existing RLSU-30MK NO-11M ‘Bars’ but instead of the PESA antenna, an AESA antenna will be fitted. 5) Due to prioritisation in order to keep project costs from spiralling. 6) That’s why it is very important to visit aerospace & defence expos & also partake in aerospace/airpower seminars held both inside India & abroad so that one can acquire the information from the horse’s mouth, instead of needdless speculating like those constipated imbeciles in certain chat-forums. 7) That IRCM can be retrofitted any time. The mounts & electrical wiring is all available on Mi-17V-5s. Just like when the C-130J-30s were ferried to India, they did not sport the chin-mounted FLIR turrets & AAR probes. 8) The DARE poster on MiG-27UPG upgrade above clearly answers that.

To ABS: Both you & ANURAG seem to have a tendency of dropping by once every 3 months to register comments (LoLz!). Firstly, yes, the Rudra helicopter-gunships armed with 70mm rockets plus THL-20mm cannon & 2 x 12.7mm MGs will be employed in that manner ahead of an advancing formation of friendly MBTs. However, for flank protection of such formations against hostile MBTs, there’s a need for dedicated LAHs each armed with at least 8 x ATGMs. In many ways, the IA is trying to conceptualise a future warfighting scenario similar to what was waged by France in OP Daguet during 1991 within the KTO.
AS for DEAD & SEAD, Su-30MKI, Rafale or even MiG-27UPG or Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 can easily conduct DEAD missions by launching tactical ALCMs against airspace surveillance radars that are permanently static in any case. The challenge is to knock-out the mobile target-engagement/fire-control radars of quick-reaction MR-SAM & SHORADS networks—something that can be done by either supersonic Kh-31Ps launched from Su-30MKI or MiG-29UPG deep inside hostile territory, or, if one wants to be innovative, via Harpy-type anti-radar drones or Harop-type dornes with optronic sensors that can be launched by LAHs to knock off battlefield air-defence artillery assets. For SEAD purposes, the jammers-equipped aircraft needs to be high-flying at standoff distances away (like the EF-111 Ravens & E/A-18G Growlers do) from the airborne strike aircraft package comprising, for instance, four Jaguar IS & two MiG-27UPGs or al all-Su-30MKI package. And since high-flying aircraft can easily be tracked & targeted by MR-SAMs & LR-SAMs, they require additional self-protection from both ASPJ suites & either towed-decoys or expendable emitting RF-decoys.

To BHASWAR: Su-30MKIs & MiG-29UPGs along with A-50I PHALCON & EMB-145I platforms have the operational data-link (ODL), something similar to NATO’s Link-16, France’s MIDS (on the Rafale) & the USAF’s JTIDS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SACHIN SATHE: That news report is erroneous, because it blindly assumes that just because one of the OEM contenders has given a technical presentation to the IAF, therefore the IAF is negotiating only with that OEM. Furthermore, the reqmt is for a total of 9 Bombardier 5000 platforms. Of these, four are meant for R & AW’s Aviation Research Centre & of these, two will be dedicated for border surveillance & recce & these will be equipped with ISAR suite, COMINT & SIGINT suites + a LOROP camera. These two platforms will replace the ARC’s Learjet 29s & Gulfstream G-3s. The other two Bombardier 5000s in civilian seating configuration will be used by the ARC for extraordinary renditions & special-mission VIP flights. Lastly, the IAF’s 5 Bombardier Global 5000s will be equipped with mission management/avionics suites similar to what will go on the two Bombardier 5000s of ARC, but they will also contain customised data-links to transmit the information in near-real-time to a network of ground receiving stations operated by the Indian Army. And again, contrary to what this ‘desi’ news-stringer has claimed about IACCCS, the IAF’s five ISTAR platforms will have nothing to do with IACCCS (why should they anyway, since IACCCS is all about airspace surveillance & not ground surveillance???), but instead they will be networked with the IA’s Project Sanjay Battlefield Surveillance System (BSS).
The decision to select the narrowbody EMB-145 for AEW & CS roles was wrong & instead the widebodied Bombardier 5000 should have been selected since it offers more internal volume to have replacement aircrews & mission management personnel & also has greater internal fuel capacity for staying aloft for six hours without aerial refueling, something the EMB-145I cannot. Furthermore, the LRDE has admitted defeat in developing an indigenous ISAR (there’s no word about it at all in the MoD’s 2012 annual report) & therefore a version of the EL/M-2060P ISAR system is likely to be chosen by the IAF. This 200km-range radar will have a moving-target indicator (MTI) with a resolution of three metres and a target velocity between 5mph & 170mph. Electronic scanning enables it to cover nearly 8,000 square miles in 10 seconds.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA & BHASWAR: That’s all that can be expected from anonymous constipated imbeciles who can’t even distinguish between an underwriter & undertaker! As I had explained before, a fierce fighting cock is a cock with balls. Although I have never yet seen where the balls are, I assume they must be hidden there somewhere. If not, they would not be such fierce fighters. That is why I presume these anonymous constipated imbeciles love Hindi movies, which always start with the baddie terrorising the entire village. Then along comes the hero who gets beaten up to the point of death as he stands up for the democratic rights and civil liberties of the entire community. He then recovers from his injuries and singlehandedly defeats the baddie and his army of 65 toughies, plus in the end he gets to marry the most beautiful girl in the village. These are movies made for the minds of such imbeciles. The trouble is these imbeciles measure the size of their balls according to the size of the cock’s balls. And to qualify as a man they assume they must have balls the size of a cock’s balls. They’re not concerned whether they have brains bigger than a cock’s brains. I really don’t know how big the cock’s balls are. But I am more concerned with saving my balls, whatever size they may be. So I use my brains, which are bigger than a cock’s brains, and not my balls to make my decisions. By using my brains to make decisions, I think I am able to make better decisions and in that same process save my balls as well. I suppose this is because I have a better brain than these imbeciles, who may have gone to university but yet still use their balls rather than their brains to make decisions. And since they use their balls rather than their brains to make decisions they never make the cleverest of decisions. This is the problem with the imbeciles frequenting certain chat forums who suffer from the cock syndrome. They all think like cocks and use their balls in deciding things. I refuse to think like a cock so I use my brains. And that is why these anonymous imbeciles can never match me & likeminded bloggers in TRISHUL-TRIDENT. They can’t come even close.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Yesterday, while I was wondering if AESA-based active jammers are used for jamming inbound MRAAMs/BVRAAMs, why can’t they be used for jamming inbound SAMs or even ASCMs. And lo & behold (!), I received some data & illustrations from IAI/ELTA on the EL/M-2222S NAVGUARD self-protection suite, which in essence is an AESA-based MAWS that makes the Barak-2 even more effective against inbound ASCMs of all types. Will upload the data & photos above later today.

sachin_sathe said...

On a diff note, what was the point of the media fanfare abt floating of INS Vikrant(THE Launch if press reports are anything to go by?) If the Island is not fitted,it cannot move under its own power(even aux motors for harbor maneuvers arent running)?

Regarding the EMB-145I why was it chosen(money constraints or lack of options?) Also since they were building an AEW a/c rather than going for a smaller a/c wouldn't it have been better to use some one like AIRBUS as a a/c consultant as they could probably modified an A-319LR or an A-310 at the very least, save a load of trouble in testing as they probably would have a much much better knowledge & Not to mention OEM support hell may be even get IPR's for an innovative design since India was first to approach with such project. ur thoughts?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Anup said...

Dear Sir,

Some of our retired officer working in Defence companies as a Consultant.
Are they leaking any kind of secrete information or just for fun?
What they realy consult?

bipi342 said...
how intelligence official brief Rahul,want to know your opinion if congress come into power is he matured enough to handle NCA and Intelligence agencies.

Technology, Photograpy and Travel said...

Prasun please do not give some those people who deviate the blog any ans ... they do not need them and as for us we miss the track of actual discussion ...

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

you used 'indifferent' in quotes at some places why?

Just read a article by someone in Pakistan that says India going for MaRV/MIRV will definately push up nuclear envelop vis a vis China/Pak, i think thats bogey call, whats your say

Details of US prez asking Pak PM about 26/11 and leaks stating Pak official knew and supported drone strikes makes the Pak civil administration more toothless

Just heard India is likely to sell sonars to Burma, looks like India will reap benefits of continuing to engage Burma when the whole world was against it, just hope the same happens with respect to India engaging Iran, and if US Iran sort out difference before June 2014, India will again reap rich benefits via making efforts to build the Chahbhar port & its link to Afghan border and the zaranj delaram road link inside Afghanistan that ultimately links Herat and further to Kabul

I was just going through some pics saw a pic that says Kh90 hypersonic cruise missile/K19 Koala, the reported images of Brahmos 2 hypersonic cruise missile in news look surprizingly miniaturized version of that missile, btw i still cant figure why a hypersonic missile is needed as i believe they are too fast to control, will need massive investment to make body that withstands pressure and more over the launch platform will take a hit.


Joydeep Ghosh

Pierre Zorin said...

I hope you realise that comment about little contribution by Mr Ra 13 and SBM was a "miss you " type sigh because like more of their input and not a complaint about their silence! :)
By the way a nice Sir Humphrey Appleby monologue in that rooster analogy! LoL

raw13 said...

There is nothing surprising in this news wrt drones. Few weeks ago Mushraff gave an interview where he said that such an agreement existed. The article is simply to let our idiot PM know that they had an agreement. Even in Wikileaks PM Gilani is quoted as saying kill as many as you can, just don't touch the civilians.

Till this day most of the accurate targetting info is provided by ISI. What has happened is that since the agreement 10yrs or so ago the media is truely free and there is lots of it about. Like in the western countries it is the true opposition. I am sure you have seen the nature of reporting change and the impact it has on the ordinary person.

raw13 said...


There has been wholesale debate about remote control type switches in say PAF F-16s. What is your take on this? Do all the major weapon suppliers do this? How pervasive is this or is this just scare mongring?

raw13 said...

This is very interesting, looks as if zia ul haqs prodigal son has done some homework:

and a pretty good analysis of the joint statement, it seems maybe we will get the safe nuclear option:

lachit said...

"That is why I presume these anonymous constipated imbeciles love Hindi movies, which always start with the baddie terrorising the entire village. Then along comes the hero who gets beaten up to the point of death as he stands up for the democratic rights and civil liberties of the entire community. He then recovers from his injuries and singlehandedly defeats the baddie and his army of 65 toughies, plus in the end he gets to marry the most beautiful girl in the village. These are movies made for the minds of such imbeciles. The trouble is these imbeciles measure the size of their balls according to the size of the cock’s balls. And to qualify as a man they assume they must have balls the size of a cock’s balls. They’re not concerned whether they have brains bigger than a cock’s brains"

man u just hit the bulls eye on the psyche of majority of india

respected u for ur knowledge on defence but u r really some good
psychological analyst

by the way did u notice recently how often a PM aspirant(one whose only only qualification is his sirname ) has been raking communal issues albeit in the guise of secularism
but things are not like they seem i fear
riots may be engineered after all if one were to occur who would benefit the most

i believe u know there is a entire section of IB devoted for political
management (alleged)which many in india dont know about

reddy said...


Some people fall for money.
Some others for lust.
And few,
for joint statements and
naive analysis.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

In a country where a THIRD CLASS Cambridge pass like NEHRU is called a Pandit what more can be expected from Anonymous posters in a chat forum .

Anyways , here is a technology which the Indian Armed forces will do well to embrace .

The US armed forces are blending Cyber capabilities with the Electronic Warfare capabilities .


RD said...

Ur's comment regarding bollywood films really changed my mood. I can't understand how films like chennai express go past 200 crores landmark.

Today INS Kamorta hit the river bank near midnapur during trials. Hope nothing major damage have occured.



I think you'd get a kick out of this, an IAF MIG-29UPG with the TOPSIGHT-I HMDS intergrated/in use:


Ved said...

Hi Prasun,

I must congratulate you on the indepth analysis and information that you provide on varied military disciplines. Please let me know which fire control radar will be used in Tejas MK1 and MK2. Also share your knowledge on whether Tejas MK 1 and 2 will use pytho5 and derby combination. If yes then i believe its the Elta 2052 0r its variant that the tejas mk1 and 2 will use as FCR.



is it offical polciy of the IAF to keep their A-50 PHALCONs out of the lime-light as to date, since their induction into the IAF, there has been little to no sightings or images realeased of the PHALCON in Indian service.

Also when will the follow-on 2 units of PHALCONs be ordered?

bipi342 said...

just want to know irresponsible reporting from this reporter cost life of Indian soldiers?i was hearing this for sometime first in forums then in one malayalam film which was directed by a Retd.Major in that film he was saying incident just like this one if you can give some more information about this it will be help full.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANUP: Usually these ‘consultants’ are retired one-star-and-above officers who have previously worked either inside the MoD or inside the service HQs handling procurement projects. Therefore, such officers possess unique insights on the processes & procedures of both the civilian & military bureaucracies & ways of contacting them, because India’s MoD & the armed services HQs, unlike their counterparts elsewhere, don’t publish their telephone directories or contact details of the offices of key procurement officials & therefore opacity prevails. Consequently, when foreign OEMs want to enlighten the MoD & service HQs about their products & services, they usually hire ‘consultants’ who help the OEMs navigate through the civilian/military bureaucratic channels & home in on the key decision-makers without wasting much time. Normally, ‘consultants’ don’t leak any secrets, the agents or middlemen do because such folks have climbed up the ladder through sheer cryonism. For instance, Lt Cdr (Ret’d) Ravi Shankaran, who is now in self-imposed exile in the UK, was a diver & thus, after resigning from the IN, he decided to use the old-boy network to obtain information on future procurement-related contracts/reqmts related to diving/salvage operations. Once he got such information, he then proceeded to obtain ‘agencies’ from OEMs specialising in offering products/solutions for such niche areas like decompression chambers for divers & he next used his old-boy network to again get insider-information about what his principal’s competitors were offering, & he then used such inputs to refine his bid during the tendering process & that’s how he succeeded in winning the tender awards. Once money starting flowing in for him, he then climbed up the business value-chain & began offering anti-corrosion paints, anchor-chains, underwater comms hardware, etc. And of course he always took care of his ‘old-boy network’ by making them cash payments & giving other gifts—all of which are impossible to prove unless recorded in real-time by audio-visual means. The same methodology was applied by former CNS Admiral S N Nanda after he retired from the IN & began representing foreign OEMs like MTU since the 1970s by securing exclusive Indian agency-rights from such OEMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BIPI342: All right, let’s deal purely with facts here, based on the uncalled-for utterances of RG:
1) It is perfectly logical for the ISI to make use of the porous nature of India’s borders with Nepal to use UP & Bihar as the main areas through which infiltration & exfiltration of the ISI’s over-ground workers & sleeper cell-members takes place.
2) Within every District Police HQ, there’s a cell called DIB or District Intelligence Bureau, which keeps tabs on the district with the help of the Police. It is the DIB that handles all passport verification-related enquiries prior to the passports being issued by India’s Regional Passport Offices. The DIBs in turn all report to the SIB at the State Secretariat, with the SIBs from all states reporting to IN HQ in Delhi.
3) Last month itself, I had posted four weblinks about a debate sponsored by Geo TV of Pakistan & ABP News of India in which the Pakistani panelists were alleging that the Muslims of Muzzafarnagar, fearing communal violence, were hiding in the paddy fields surrounding the town. What also emerged from that debate was that Pakistan will be ever-willing to exploit any communal or societal faultlines within India, irregardless of whether or not the J & K issued is resolved. And in today’s world where information warfare can easily be waged with tools like cyberspace, it is extremely easy to establish contacts between two parties.
4) The practice of presenting all kinds of intelligence data/inputs to the Chairperson of UPAs-1/2 began in 2005 when former IB Director M K Narayanan (now Governor of WB) became the NSA & instituted a practice in which the IB Director, Secretary R & AW, plus the head of the NTRO & later the NIA, all reported daily to him & he in turn shared such date with Sonia Gandhi. Once this happens, it is very easy for the mother & son to sit on the dinner-table & discuss such matters/developments & from there such data is made available to party functionaries like Digvijay Singh. Therefore, what is much more pertinent is not whether RG himself should have received intelligence inputs from the IB, but why has SG been receiving them since 2005! After all, both SG & RG are not part of the Govt of India & are therefore not bound by any oath to withhold/protect state secrets.
5) Former IB Directors interviewed since yesterday are 100% RIGHT when they said that RG should never have disclosed whatever he did, since this severely compromises operational secrecy & will only cause much more harm in future in terms of lost Indian lives & destroyed properties via perpetrated acts of terrorism.
6) RG should never have spoken about such topics, since he himself had said before that Pakistan is too small a country for India to bother about & India should move on & expand her horizons.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: The term ‘indifferent’ is formally used by IAF HQ to describe the functional inefficiency of the Tarang family of RWRs. On the contrary, acquisition of MIRV capability by India will usher in the era of strategic nuclear stability between China & India. Last month itself I had asserted & explained that Dr MMS’ utterances about Pakistan at the White House was a carefully choreographed affair that was pre-arranged by both India & the US. Similar utterances by US officials in the past 48 hours after Mian Sahab’s visit to the White House only serve to prove my earlier assertions. As for exports of HUMSA-NG, both Bangladesh & Myanmar are interested & Bangladesh has already acquired one for testing. If sold, then the HUMSA-NG will be installed on
two Type 053H2 Jianghu 3-class FFGs of the Bangladesh Navy (these being the ex-PLA Navy Huangshi 535 and Wuhu 536), plus the two Type 053H1 Jianghu 2-class FFGs sold last year to the Union of Myanmar Navy (FFG 554 Anshan and FFG 557 Jishou, which were built in 1986 and 1988, respectively by the Shanghai-based Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard). All these FFGs destined for Bangladesh and Myanmar will in future be armed with C-802A anti-ship cruise missiles.

To PIERRE ZORIN: Of course, I did. VMT indeed for taking note of the rooster anology (LoLz!).

To RAW13: The most insightful data on the four US bases inside Pakistan (Shamsi, Jacobabad, Dalbandin & Pasni) until the Salala Incident comes from Lt Gen (ret’d) Shahid Aziz’s memoir, which was extensively debated upon & critiqued by several Pakistani TV channels earlier this year. All talk of remote-controlled kill-switches on any platform is pure baloney & utter hogwash. Kill-switches are activated manually only on standalone hardware like mission management computers/sensors that are found on board ELINT/SIGINT platforms. For instance, immediately after the US Navy EP-3 made an emergency landing at Hainan Island in mid-2001 after colliding with a PLAN J-8II interceptor, the mission-management personnel on board that EP-3 activated the kill-switches embedded within sensitive ELINT/SIGINT hardware like DRFM controller & EW suite controller (of the type I’ve shown above in the posters) so that such hardware will be functionally inaccessible for any form of forensic analysis. All this was beautifully explained in CNN by an EP-3 aircrew after the incident had taken place.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LACHIT: VMT. I’ve already explained above a short while ago how the country’s intelligence agencies are used en masse (& not just sections of them) by the ruling political coalition-in-power. How all this has been done since the 1960s has been accurately documented by former IB officials like the late M K Dhar in their memoirs. RG should never have spoken about such topics, since he himself had said before that Pakistan is too small a country for India to bother about & India should move on & expand her horizons. Through his latest utterances on the ISI he is now only contradicting his earlier stance on Pakistan. And it’s not just him. Folks like Digvijay Singh have also done so in the past, especially by insinuating that the late Hemant Karkare (former head of Maharashtra’s ATS) could have been gunned down by the RSS instead of Ajmal Kasab—insinuations that led several Pakistan-based Jihadi poster-boys to erroneously claim that the entire 26/11 terror attacks were false-flag operations of mounted by India’s intelligence agencies.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Precisely, & your inference has indeed hit the bull’s eye yet again. EW & cyber warfare are in reality two sides of the same coin since both are driven by growing network-centric technological convergences. However, while India’s armed forces are fully cognizant of such developments, the country’s apex civilian decision-makers in their all-knowing wisdom choose to snooze over such matters, exactly for how long no one really is sure of.

To RD: That’s because Indians in general have been conditioned to unquestioningly embrace the concept of ‘Ram Rajya’, no matter how wrong it was for Ram to condemn his pregnant wife Sita to vanvaas (exiled to the wilderness) just on the basis of fraudulent & mischievous allegations. Thus, today, even ‘Bhagwaans’ (Gods) like Shiva (Mahadev) have been demoted & condemned to a ‘Devo ka Devtaa’ (king of angels) in the latest TV soap operas! And no one, not even the RSS or VHP, is questioning such demotions of divinity! For as long as the regressive mindset is not rejigged & transformed, there will be many more Chennai Express blockbusters, & the country will continue developing MRCAs before even mastering the art of developing BTTs & IJTs, she will continue developing ICBMs & SLBMs while failing to induct into service a far simpler indigenous ATGM, she will continue producing nuclear-powered submarines before even mastering the art of developing midget submarines or semi-submersibles, she will continue developing MBTs while being unable to develop APCs or wheeled all-terrain vehicles, & she will continue developing & deploying cutting-edge antenna-arrays capable of studying deep space while being incapable of coming up with far simpler slotted-array antennae for SAR sensors.
Hitting a river-bank is extremely dangerous, since the bulb at the front-end base of the P-28 corvette’s hull houses the fibre-glass dome housing the HUMSA-NG sonar. But why did the Kamorta hit the river-bank in the first place, when as per standard operating procedure the warship is meant to be assisted by harbour pilots located in tugboats ahead of & on either side of any warship that’s undergoing trials.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TRUTHSEEKER: Not Topsight-1, but the upgraded SURA-1 HMTDS. Looks can be deceptive when the anti-glare visor is in use & the TDS is not attached to the helmet. Several photos of A-50I PHALCON flying in Indian airspace are available & have been published in several magazines to date.

To VED: VMT. On Tejas Mk1 it will be the EL/M-2032 MMR. On Tejas Mk2 an AESA-MMR will be used as per the IAF’s ASQR. The Python-5 & Derby has already been selected by the IN, but for the IAF there still remains a question-mark, because so far the IAF has not yet been presented with the TARGO HMDS interfaced with the fire-control mechanism of the R-73E WVRAAM. All that the ADA has so far stated is that first flight with HMDS took place in April 2008 & first firing of R-73E took place in October 2007. Till to date, no one from ADA or DRDO or the IAF has confirmed whether or not an HMDS-qued firing of the R-73E took place. In addition, no BVRAAM firings have so far taken place from any Tejas Mk1 PV or LSP.

To BIPI342: Totally rubbish & there’s no truth in them. Firstly, let’s deal with this: “signals emitted by the wireless devices used by Barkha were easily tracked by the Pakistanis and it helped them bomb Indian spots which in turn killed few Indian soldiers.”-----------there were several SATCOM-based cellphones & miniature VSATs being used by Indian & foreign journalists all along the warfront & therefore to single out only one person as being responsible for callous wireless signals emissions is an insult to everyone’s intelligence. Secondly, hostile direction-finders (DF) are reqd for triangulating the probable (never exact) origin of any wireless emission. Thirdly, DF hardware is horribly ineffective at such high altitudes. None of the NLI-occupied observation posts along the LoC had any DF hardware. The NLI personnel were all using only binoculars to scope the IA’s light/medium artillery pits & road transportation routes & record their grid coordinates & then passed them on by radio to the PA’s rear-area field artillery batteries.

If the flashlights gave way the positions of entrenched IA personnel & the enemy opened fire on the source of the light when the interview was being conducted, then how come the news-reporter escaped such gunfire while others in her immediate vicinity reportedly perished? Doesn’t make any sense at all.

Pierre Zorin said...

Prasun you always said India follows a Run Walk Crawl approach with regards to military and probably a lot of other scientific projects. Very true indeed. It's as far fetched as taking 1 million Indians to space and asking them to pee to relieve drought and yet announcing that DRDO is developing new laser technology to eliminate faeces all over to address lack of public toilets!

reddy said...

A quick 3 minute video

interesting part starts from 1:00

Raman said...

Just wanted to say..........I have been following your blog/site since 2008 (except when you went off air in 2009-10).....and I really enjoy reading it.....and, i think you enjoy writing it just as much !!

While I may not agree with you at times (at least you have an opinion !!)......I check it every morning. like a Morning cup of Coffee !!


Anonymous said...

hi prasun,

sorry forgot to ask one question, hence reposting.

what do you think of drdo going to seoul for adex. are these many systems we are taking there?

what do you think do we have chance of any sales happening there?


Bhaswar said...

Now that you mention it, how did we develop ISRO's deep space tracking system?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

may be i am reading too much into this but looks like you felt offended that i questioned your answer you gave in last thread 'BrahMos-2 is definitely a viable option from a techno-economic matrix.' and that is why you chose not to reply to the point raised by me on Kh-90 hypersonic missile. If so i am sorry

i vaguely remember that you once said US has recruited Indian technicians working in defense projects, may be i am reading too much into this but i found a former tech writer at BEL after working in RF of warships is now in US what that person is doing i dont know

just learned that a US man pleaded guilty to supplying military hardware or info to India or indian entity. could that be real i doubt


Joydeep Ghosh

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To REDDY: VMT. It just proves what I had explained above, doesn’t it?

To RAMAN: VMT indeed. I do very much enjoy uploading the threads with new data & illustrations & sharing the contents with other bloggers.

To PIERRE ZORIN & AMOL: Leave alone promoting exports of Made-in-India military products, the DRDO’s latest all-expenses-paid junked to Seoul is meant for, I guess, learning from its South Korean counterpart, the Agency for Defense Development or ADD, how worthwhile it is to adopt the crawl, walk, run, sprint approach to military R & D, instead of clinging to the illogical sprint, run, walk & crawl approach that the DRDO has adopted since the early 1980s & as a result how has bitten far more than it can chew. There will be no takers for the Akash-1 or Prahaar or Tejas MRCA in South Korea simply because the ADD is far ahead of the DRDO when it comes to developing varied solutions within much shorter timeframes & with far greater capabilities. If you still don’t believe me, then do watch these:

Cheongung VL MR-SAM:

T-50 light MRCA:

Pegasus SHORADS:

K-2 MBT:

Hyunmu-3 LACM:


In light of the above, the DRDO’s pavilion at ADEX 2013 is a sheer waste of public money, just as it has wasted public money everytime it exhibited at similar such expos since the early 1990s in Brazil, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand & Turkey.

To BHASWAR: It’s still under development……since the 1990s!

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Why should I feel offended? And there’s no need for you to apologise either. Had you asked me a question I would have replied. In this case, no questions were asked & therefore I chose not to make any comment on your observation. Missiles like Koala & Granit all use the same air-breathing ramjet-based propulsion systems for attaining supersonic or hypersonic cruise speeds as BrahMos-1 or P-800 Yakhont. Such missiles are always uploaded with pre-determined target coordinates & mid-course targetting data & are meant for use only against large targets like aircraft carriers & their escorting cruisers. They can’t be fired from all types of SSGNs & are carried by mammoth SSGNs like the Kursk.

Bhaswar said...

Sir the deep space tracking system is already operation, in fact shall be used in the upcoming launch to a certain extent. So why would we still be developing it? There are pictures available of the antennas.

abs said...

Do rest assured that Anurag and I certainly don't plan on making it look so (LoLz!).
Would love to post regularly from now and hope my mate in here, Anurag joins ASAP Lol.
Thanks for such an elaborate reply.

Pierre Zorin said...

There is absolutely NO reason to doubt you Prasun. For years now I felt India missed a golden opportunity by not involving South Korea in its DRDO projects. Not only would it have made good progress, but would have cost less and still access cutting edge technology...well perhaps not as good as the Western ones but not far behind and once there was a platform further development was always possible. It makes one laugh how one could waste money on go go gadgets and fail to build the basic items which people take for granted. With regards to acquisitions as well, sure not all eggs needed to be in the Russian basket, but instead of whingeing and running all over the world for prospective imports, JV projects with Russian helicopters, UAC, Russian general defence establishments and ADD in Korea would have yielded a lot more fruit especially in the helicopters, aircrafts, howitzers, MPVs, ICVs, small arms and naval products. The MoD is like me when I go to the giant Hardware store - everything I know has a use and cold be useful but I don't know how to use a lot of those items and yet I come home with a trolley full each time hoping to use something some day!

Pierre Zorin said...

Prasun is it just me or this is how India "is "and will be? Just doesn't instil confidence; I see the vehicles in China and other countries and the infrastructure around and compare to what is in India - just seems so out dated and depressing. All those around look like children playing with a RC toy!
And here's a link which literally shows what "horsing "around is - just because the guys eat a lot and wear a ponytail means they are heroes and experts of course

Iceman said...

1.some reports say that Rustom-2 will be able to see 2500km is it true?
2.three to four years back TATA power SED won the deal for supplying electronic warfare systems.has the deal been signed?
3.why is that the Indian army ordered only a small number of nishant uav?
4.Will FGFA's cockpit be based on Elbit systems NG cockpit? there a possibility to integrate DRDO AEW@CS on MRTA after
the first three was integrated on
embraer platform?
6.has drdo developing any Storm Shadow type of missile?
7.WHAt is use of KALI weapon system?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

ok i will ask some questions then

1. With start 1/2 & other treaties US & Russia will ultimately cut down their SNW/TNW to below 500 and it may well go below 400 by 2050, in that case will it be worthwhile for India to have a nuke stokepile for over 125 SNW as India does not have TNW. I ask this as India concern is only South Asia, IOR, SEAsia,Middle & Central Asia.

2. Learnt that in 1990s Russia was planning to have a ICBM with powerful 1st stage and instead of 2nd booster or 3rd warhead stage they planned to have multiple LRCMs in the 2nd stage that will disperse in various directions from high up in space, but the breakup of USSR stalled that program. Is this kind of thing even theoretically possible

3. I know the 105 mm IFG/LFG cant be heli-lifted but i think the gun design has lot of life still in it, if so desired can 105 IFGs be redisgned to be heli-ported like M777

4. NSTL wants to develop 12 ton AUVs why


Joydeep Ghosh

Bhaswar said...

Also sir,

what is the EL/M- 8022 jammer, I believe its the EL/M-8222 jammer?

Also doesn't the SU-30MKI use the EL/M-2888 jamming pod anyway?

Also how will the Jags carry an LDP and a Jammer pod and Milds-F pod and still have enough hardpoints left for munitions? Or will either the Milds system or the self-protection system be internally mounted?

bipi342 said...

VMT for the reply
was army on board for latest agreement signed between india and china?or they have been forced to accept it by civilian government.
what you think about point raised by author in above link?

Bhaswar said...

Also in one of your previous replies to me you had stated-

"Ariel Mk3 towed-decoys will be present on only those Super Su-30MKIs that are customised for carrying out suppression of enemy air-defence (SEAD)"

BUT your narrative in the thread states- "The SEAD-optimised and DEAD-optimized Super Su-30MKIs will also be equipped with EADS/Cassidian’s Ariel Mk3 towed RF-decoys."

THIS is highly confusing, please clarify.

AND the escort jammers mentioned- which jammer will fill that role and why are they mounted on the wingtips?

AND IF both the SEAD and DEAD variants are to carry the towed decoy, and that too house said decoy in the tail sting then how will the same tail sting also make space for what appears to be a singular MAWS and dual RWR on either side of the tail-sting too?

ALL upgraded MKIs though will MOST PROBABLY incorporate an internally mounted Virgilius jammer, yes?

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
Thank you very much for your thorough coverage of Airborne EW Suits for Combat Aircrafts and Helicopters.
1.Have you any info on whether K-4 missile has already been tested a number of times from under water?
2. When do you think will be the next test of Nirbhay?

abs said...

I would definitely like to know about the future application of the Prahaar NLOS-BSM.

Anonymous said...

Prasun ji...1->Can a jf17 track MKI before an MKI tracks it due to its large RCS.2->IS it possible to intercept cruise missile like tomahawk and supersonic missiles like Brahmos through some AAM like sidewinder used on MKI's or anyother missile onboard a fighter plane.3->Why the IAF produced jags till 2009 and still upgrading them,even US is replacing it's A10 with f35...Why the IAF is so fond of this plane they even did not performed well during kargil conflict and we have to engage M2K.4->I was going through your older post and there you replied someone that only americans use AWACS and rest of the world uses AEW'S,what is the difference between these two.i'm kind of perplexed after reading that plz throw some light on these things...Thanks in advance

Vikrant said...

hello prasun sir,
commenting after some time
1)will delivery of ins kamorta be delayed due to its grounding.
2)can a SAM be developed using astra technology,
3)Read about chinese ORBAT from your archives damn good work sir what changes are neee on our side of the border,wrt to 4 corps tezpur and 3 corps and the mountain strike corps

Gessler said...

Sir I found an interesting video of the HAL Dhruv equipped with what appears to be an Elbit DCOMPASS Optronic pod -

Are Dhruvs with this configuration already in service or yet to enter service?

Thanks in advance

Bhaswar said...

Sir is the development of the NAL Saras still continuing? Why hasn't the project been shelved, I sincerely feel as if the MoD is intimidated by these organisations and fears taking any steps.

Anyway, since it is continuing, WHAT exactly is the problem with the aircraft, is it a design issue, a structural one, avionics problems? What is it, what has gotten the project down in the dumps in technical terms?

Iceman said...

8.Will two seat FGFA will be taken up at a later date?
9.whwn do you think HAL LUH 1st prototype will fly?

raw13 said...

Over the past year or so there have been increasing reports of fights between officers and jawans. This is not only in the conflict zones like J&K but peace time locations as well. It is normal to expect polictical moves at Lt. Gen level but normally at the unit level this i believe was never the case. Has the IA started to unravel?
Could the issue be related to lack of officers? Or is it the lack of quality officers?

Anonymous said...


how comfortably you can forget the daily and dastardly happenings in your country and is happily concentrating on incidents in IA and want to see them as if such a thing is going to destroy IA and India?

some times even your god is helpless while helping u

DAshu said...

one more view of Border Defence Cooperation (BDC)

D.Limberský said...

Hello Prasun ,

Our's is a small company based in Prague and we do armoring of vehicles ,systems integration of Mobile Ops Rooms, squad, observation vehicles, etc.

Can you please suggest how we can find customers in India.

Thanking You ,

Anonymous said...

So many Magazines, forums, individuals, retired service and admin personnel, private-public think tanks in India work for some indian or foreign organisations that aim for selling weapons and also for policy inclusions that favour them or not-to favour others.

some where I read Force/ forceindia is one such magazine. as an average indian reader hoping to see my country as a better one and secured one, I see most of the lobbying comes from US/UK, and some indian companies.

Even I wondered Tata has also involved in scandals such as Nira radia.

needless to mention paid and managed media in india.

pak/saudi war on india through various ways...

christian (US/EU) war in some other ways.. such as mass conversions and kundakulam etc...

in essence india became a playground/ lab for all sorts of experiments ranging from religious conversions/extremism, denting territorial integrity, economic war through proxies, cyber war, social/communal harmony eruptions, deficiency in political/regional harmony, money laundering, security issues for women and down trodden, paid media, media management for dubious reasons, corruption in govt agencies and services, etc

while the govt and people are expected to be extra vigilant, they are busy in seeing gods in film stars, and the govt is seeing everything as of they are entitled to loot everything that came in their way...

Now India represents a chaotic country with dysfunctional societies

Gessler said...

Hi Prasun,

The new 'Pragati' missile has been shown -

It is different from Prahaar in the fact it has an additional set of small fins near the nose, although the airframe & body seems clearly that of Prahaar.

The canister launcher in the background is an interesting thing. Our Prahaar launcher shown in Republic Day parades didn't look like that.

Any comments, sir?

DAshu said...

pragati ??? lolz what kind of name is it for a missile

DAshu said...

yeah,if they can name a fighter as Tejas . they can name anything to any system

G said...

@ Gessler

Isn't possible that is the the latest design for the Prahaar missile? the same goes for the launcher ? As both are still testing and development?

The Republic Day parade , the Praahar missile was part of the DRDO contingent!

A Very good example can be said of the NAG ATGM!... we all know that what was initial show (launcher too) is far different in design from what is today and what will eventually be inducted in the armed forces


sntata said...

To Bhaswar,
Saras as a 14-seater civil aircraft appears to be a dead duck. NAL is looking for morphing it to military application. Here is the latest on Saras:

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
What do you make of the above article in on NAL, with your sensitive nose for reading in between print? The details are hazy.

abs said...

The photo that has been put up by Gessler shows the Prahaar in Army colours. What is the story?

abs said...

Also need your retort to the apprehensions regarding the "ceiling of mutually agreed force levels" and "tailing of border patrols" as raised by Pravin Sawhney in the following

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Plenty of interesting queries have been posted above & will answer them all tonight. Just got back from AP/North East. Kindly bear with me until then.

Gessler said...

Hello Prasun,

1) Will the Delhi DDGs be upgraded with MFSTAR radars and Barak-2 missiles or not?

2) Will the entire Indian army infantry receive digital camo uniforms as part of FINSAS program?

3) How do you think the DRDO MCWS matches up to the likes of FN SCAR, beretta ARX-160 and new M4 variants?

4) Is there any chance the army will also induct MSMC?

5) Is china building or designing something called Type-055 DDG? It is said to be similar to Zumwalt.

6) by what time should we be seeing the first super sukhoi prototype flying?

7) What will be the features of the so called DRDO anti radiation missile? Like type of propulsion system, speed, etc.?

8) Will the Indian navy's future SSN be armed with Brahmos-2 hypersonic missiles or just the same Brahmos-1 or Klub?

9) When completed, do you think the IN's IAC-2 carrier and it's battle group will be formidable enough to counter something like the US 7th fleet?

10) What will be the fate of Diego Garcia?

VMT in advance.

abhay jain said...

prasun sir

what's your take on the following news?

Gessler said...

Hi Prasun & other peoples here,

Just found one more picture of Pragati missile with the canister/launcher in full view - mounted on a TATRA truck -

Iceman said...

10.How many Dhruv Mk3 and Mk4 will be ordered in future after the initial orders? there any chance that MMRCA deal will be signed within march 2014?
12.are there any work going on to develop AEW version of dhruv for Army aviation corps?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: That so-called deep-space tracking system is a cluster of radio telescopes, not exactly the type of space-based optical telescope that I was referring to. EL/M-8022 is the internally mounted version of the EL/L-8222 pod that’s carried by Su-30MKI, MiG-27UPG & MiG-21 Bison & Sea Harrier LUSH. MILDS on Jaguar can easily be mounted on underwing pylons of the type shown above. The SEAD-optimised and DEAD-optimised Super Su-30MKIs will BOTH be equipped with EADS/Cassidian’s Ariel Mk3 towed RF-decoys. ELL-8251 escort jammer pods. Why wing-mounted? For the very same reason that Su-27SKs, Su-27SMs, Su-30SMs, Su-34s & EA-18G Growlers are all configured in a similar manner when conducting escort jamming operations. Examine the photos of the Super Su-30MKI VERY CLOSELY. The towed RF-decoy installation is above the tail-sting, not inside. All Su-30MKIs will have ELT-568 jammers.

To PIERRE ZORIN: Just wait till I publish a new thread within the next 24 hours to compare the success rates of the ADD in terms of timeframes & those of the DRDO. That will give these gallivanting DRDO officials a much-needed reality doze! And as for those ponytail-sporting nerds, they were only monkeying around in that video-clip. I guess in a country whose leaders have no shame whatsoever in reducing their country to a laughing stock for the entire world by ordering an archaeological institution based on just some Guru’s dream about a 1,000 tonnes of gold being stashed away 10 feet underground, being & acting stupid & beig dim-witted easily get accepted as humour, as exemplified by those two retards on that video-clip.

To ICEMAN: 1) 2,500km which way? Up? Down? Above? Below? Sideways? Rearwards? 2) Who ever said that TATA Power SED won that contract? Up to last year at DEFEXPO 2012 that company was still awaiting the RFP & since then it has teamed up with Larsen & Toubro to jointly bid. No contract award has taken place so far. 3) Because it was never deemed suitable & had become obsolete too soon. 4) Let’s hope so. 5) No. 6) Yes. 7) No idea.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) Those projected figures are unlikely to become a reality. 2) Everything is theoretically possible. 4) Why? There are several potential applications, such as ROVs for harbour surveillance & seabed surveillance.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BIPI342, DASHU & ABS: Those who are criticising the BDCA have an obvious agenda: cry foul without examining facts on the ground since implementation of the BDCA will only hurt their pockets! Firstly, the ceiling on force-levels on both sides has never been agreed to although it was proposed in the mid-1990s. Secondly, since 1967, both armies have conducted long-range patrolling (with no more a platoon-strength contingent) for OLNY up to 20km beyond the actually-held defensive positions on both sides of the LAC & therefore both know very well the patrolling limits & all these are marked & plotted on maps as well. Even last April, the PLA’s BDR detachment transgressed only some 17km into the Depsang Bulge. And no one in their right mind will transgress past settled areas where road/rail connectivity prevails. Thirdly, exercises conducted at Battalion-level & above are barred for both parties for a distance up to 20km away from each party’s perception of the LAC & clearly this cannot mean that IAF C-130J-30s won’t be able to exercise with the IA. Fourthly, & most importantly, while the IA’s forward-deployed mountain divisions are thoroughly acclimatised for high-altitude warfare 12/365, the PLA has very serious problems in TAR due to high incidences of altitude sickness among its troops. This illness occurs when people who grew up near sea level (most of the world's population) move to altitudes greater than 2,100 metres (7,000 feet). Below that, the air contains 21% oxygen. Above that, the percentage of oxygen declines, and that produces shortness of breath, disorientation, nosebleeds, nausea, dehydration, difficulty sleeping and eating, headaches and, if you stay up there long enough, chronic and long term disability. The average altitude of TAR is 4,100 metres (14,000 feet).What hurts you the most is the lower air-pressure at higher altitudes, which means your lungs transport less oxygen to your blood. But the local Tibetans have evolved to deal with it. The majority of PLA soldiers coming from Chengfu & Lanzhou to the Tibetan highlands (which is most of TAR) require a few days, or weeks, to acclimatise. But they are still susceptible to altitude sickness if they exert themselves, especially for extended periods. This makes the troops much less effective. Researchers have discovered that most Tibetans evolved in the last 3,000-6,000 years to deal with this problem. It appears that the most of the people moving to, and staying in, highland Tibet, were those with the rare genes that made them resistant to altitude sickness. These people became the dominant population in Tibet, mainly because they were healthier at high altitudes. Nearly all Tibetans have this gene (which controls how their red blood cells operate, to maintain sufficient oxygen levels). Very few lowland Chinese have these genes. The PLA is spending a lot of time, effort and money trying to solve this problem. Currently, most of the troops in Chengdu MR are in the eastern, lowland half. In the western portion (TAR), the PLA has stationed the 52nd and 53d Mountain Brigades, and is struggling to keep these 5,000 troops fit for duty. If there's an emergency, the nearby 13th and 14th GAs can send troops from their lowland bases. Over 20% of these troops will be hampered by altitude sickness once they reach the highlands. The PLA’s BDRs operating at the highest altitudes (4,500 metres, on the Indian border) now have access to exercise rooms (one of 1,000 square metres and another of 3,000 square metres) that are supplied with an oxygen enriched atmosphere. Troops exercising in these rooms increase the oxygen in the blood, and are much less likely to get hit with a case of altitude sickness. Thus, only these troops can stay in shape without getting sick. For border patrols at high altitudes, troops usually carry oxygen bottles and breathing masks. Thus, so far, the PLA has only been able to limit the attrition from altitude sickness, not eliminate it.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: Prahaar (or is it Prahar?) NLOS-BSM has been rejected by the IA & IAF. Instead, Prithvi-3 & Nirbhay’s ALCM/LACM have been selected for bulk orders. As for Pragati/Prahaar, it is one & the same. Since that NLOS-BSM has no takers within India (since the IA is much happier with the BrahMos-1’s Blocks 2/3), it is now being FOOLISHLY offered by the DRDO for co-development with South Korea, not realising that the latter already has the 300km-range Hyunmu-2 NLOS-BSM (essentially a re-engineered Iskander-E). In fact, so ashamed is the DRDO about having wasted precious money on developing this technology demonstrator that this system does not even get a mention in the DRDO’s press-release on ADEX 2013. You may recall that I had stated in the previous thread that on October 7, 2013, India’s Nuclear Command Authority, which meets twice every year, decided that India will not acquire any short-range nuclear-armed missile of any type, meaning that the projected Prithvi-3 will be conventionally armed NLOS-BSMs after all as I had said all along. And since the 290km-range BrahMos-1 already exists as a conventionally armed NLOS-BSM with the IA, acquiring a 150km-range NLOS-BSM like Prahaar does not make any sense & that’s why no other test-firing of the Prahaar has taken place so far. The six-unit VLS shown at ADEX-2013 is also just a concept demonstrator just like what was displayed last year at DEFEXPO 2013 & on January 26 this year. All hermetically-sealed canisters developed or being developed—be they for BrahMos-1 or K-15 SLBM or K-4 SLBM or Shaurya or even Nirbhay—are all circular. Just as the saying goes—don’t judge a book by its cover—the same applies to the colour-scheme for the Pragati as well. It’s no different from that of the Prithvi-2 & we all know what has become of that missile.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SNTATA: VMT. 1) Not yet. No underwater launches have been conducted to date. 2) By next month. 3) SARAS is most definitely a dead-duck. No one in their right mind will take the trouble to spend enormous amounts of money for producing just 15 aircraft. Anything short of the magic breakeven number of 65 is totally worthless & utter wasteful in terms of money & effort.

To VIKRANT: 1) Depends on what kind of damage has been sustained by the hull. 2) Of course, not just a SR-SAM but also an ARM. 3) No changes, just the long-overdue engancements of in roadway/railway infrastructure.

To GESSLER: That’s an IAF version of the Dhruv Mk3 undergoing flight-tests & it also sports RWR, LWR, MAWS & CMDS. The ZD tail registration says it all about that helicopter’s final destination. It will be used by the IAF for high-altitude CSAR & SAR. As for Pragati/Prahaar, it is one & the same. Since that NLOS-BSM has no takers within India (since the IA is much happier with the BrahMos-1’s Blocks 2/3), it is now being FOOLISHLY offered by the DRDO for co-development with South Korea, not realising that the latter already has the 300km-range Hyunmu-2 NLOS-BSM (essentially a re-engineered Iskander-E). In fact, so ashamed is the DRDO about having wasted precious money on developing this technology demonstrator that this system does not even get a mention in the DRDO’s press-release on ADEX 2013. You may recall that I had stated in the previous thread that on October 7, 2013, India’s Nuclear Command Authority, which meets twice every year, decided that India will not acquire any short-range nuclear-armed missile of any type, meaning that the projected Prithvi-3 will be conventionally armed NLOS-BSMs after all as I had said all along. And since the 290km-range BrahMos-1 already exists as a conventionally armed NLOS-BSM with the IA, acquiring a 150km-range NLOS-BSM like Prahaar does not make any sense & that’s why no other test-firing of the Prahaar has taken place so far. The six-unit VLS shown at ADEX-2013 is also just a concept demonstrator just like what was displayed last year at DEFEXPO 2013 & on January 26 this year. All hermetically-sealed cannisters developed or being developed—be they for BrahMos-1 or K-15 SLBM or K-4 SLBM or Shaurya or Agni-5 or Barak-2/8 or even Nirbhay—are all circular.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAW13: These happen everywhere, not just in India. There are no exceptions when it comes to such matters.

To D LIMBERSKY: The best advice on such matters can only come from the Czech Republic’s Defence Advisor who is based at the Czech Embassy in Delhi.

To GESSLER: 1) Most probably. 2) Yes. 3) It is still evolving & has not yet reached the user evaluations stage. 4) In small quantities. 5) Nope. 6) By 2016. 7) It will be an A-to-G version of Astra-1 BVRAAM. 8) SSNs will never carry such ASCMs. Only SSGNs will. 9) Never. 10) It will revert back to Mauritius.

To ABHAY JAIN: SARAS is most definitely a dead-duck. No one in their right mind will take the trouble to spend enormous amounts of money for producing just 15 aircraft. Anything short of the magic breakeven number of 65 is totally worthless & utter wasteful in terms of money & effort.

To ICEMAN: 1) About 400 more. 2) Yes. 3) Nope.

Bhaswar said...

Sir if the MKIs already carry an internally fitted 8022 jaammer then why would they need the Virgilius variant jammer and the 8251 jamming pod? That would mean that the internally mounted 8022 system will have to be removed from the MKI? Furthermore the MKI is said to be equipped with the Tarang system, how can it have both the tarang EW and the 8022 system at once?

How can the Brahmos-1 which is a CM be considered a NLOS-BSM?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: You're reading, but not digesting. I had said "EL/L-8222 pod that’s carried by Su-30MKI, MiG-27UPG & MiG-21 Bison & Sea Harrier LUSH." No one said that EL/M-8022 is inside the Su-30MKI. Furthermore, EL/L-8222 & EL/M-8022 are meant for protection against SAMs. Virgilius/ELT-568 is meant for protection from BVRAAMs. Tarang is a RWR, & is only 1 component of the EW suit. It can only detect & sense, cannot jam. All NLOS-BSMs are cruise missiles as they're powered all the way up to their final destination. They have a cruise flight trajectory & not ballistic flight trajectory.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Indian Navy RFI for Mobile Missile Coastal Batteries

Indian Navy RFI for EO-IRSTs

Indian Navy RFI for Helmet-Mounted NVDs

Indian Navy RFI for Day-Night Rangefinders

Indian Navy RFI for DGPS

Indian Navy RFI for DGPS


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

This should have been done more than a decade ago:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Just watch how this retard from the Hurriyat clique speaks out on the human rights scenario in J & K, but not a word about what's transpiring in Gilgit-Baltistan:

Bhaswar said...

What is the real reason behind providing the Hurriyat leaders with political space in Kashmir? Why haven't we liquidated them yet?

Anikate said...

Hello sir,i'm anon posted here at 28 oct,5:28 AM.Probably you missed to answer my queries.Hope you will answer them as soon as you get a chance......Thank you

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

my question still stands that why is a hypersonic Brahmos 2 needed by India

Just learnt that India plans to build railway lines to link Leh to Kargil to Srinagar. while Leh to Kargil rail link is viable and needed as was discussed sometime back in a previous threads, do you think Kargil to Srinagar rail link though needed is economically viable

Manoj Joshi in his blog says "Clearly, the country can no longer afford the luxury of running and equipping its armed forces the way it is doing today. We cannot have the luxury of having the HAL manufacture Sukhoi 30 MKI fighters, which are Rs 90 crore per piece more expensive than if we were to import them from Russia.
Nor can we afford the foolishness of allowing the state-owned Vehicle Factory Jabalpur to produce trucks from knocked-down assemblies they get from the Tata Motors and Ashok Leyland."

so what is the option while for trucks the job can be directly handed over to Tata/Leyland but what about the Su30MKI, who should make them, surely constantly importing them isnt good, what do you think


Joydeep Ghosh

Raman said...


Cannot Brahmos missiles be developed/used for Mobile Coastal Defence ???

Christian said...

Anon 10:58 just for your information US/EU are NOT Christians. Just because someone is called John or Peter doesn't make them Christians. In fact 95% citizens of those countries are atheists, agnostics or pure heathen. Formal religions like catholics sprinkle water on people to convert but real Christian conversion is not done by people but by God. Every Christian is commissioned to share the gospel but every person chooses to accept or deny it. If people are changing en masse that would most likely indicate ulterior motives or financial reasons especially for the poor. Jesus Himself said the way is narrow and only a few find it. Just thought will clarify.

Raman said...

Prasun........your thoughts please:

This year seems one of the worst for the Indian Armed Forces.....specially in terms of procurements/development......and the Saint seems to be sleep walking............zzzzzzzz

Nothing seems to be moving...even the urgent and obvious 'needs' are not being attended too/delayed by both the sloth MoD/RM....the 'pending' cases are so numerous that it would be simpler/quicker to identify the "deals" that have been closed this financial !!

Just look around you, be it the Army, Navy or the Air Force..."selected" equipment contracts are just not being closed.

To name just a few.........more C130J's; Javelin ATM's; Apaches; Chinooks; M777 LWH's; A330 MRTT's; additional PC-7's; 2 A-50 Phalcons; Honeywells F125IN; more T-90's; more Scorpene submarines; SeaHake torpedoes; Sonars; more Spyder SAM's; LUH's (totally gone off radar); and even local the OFB 155mm How's; P-15A's; P-28's; Pinaka MBRL's; IJT's; HAL's slow delivery of the Su-30MKI's/Jaguar Darin III upgrade; ; OFB's slow production of T-90's;.......and the mother of them all...MMRCA Rafale !!

Wonder what the MoD/RM do all day ????

Anonymous said...

Prasun -
Thank you for the superb explanation in 5.22 and 5.24. It is mind bending. Need a clarification though -
Not withstanding your latest assertion on Nuclear command's rejection of tactical nuclear missiles, did you not write a detailed report in Sept/Oct 2011 which reasoned a place for NLOS-BSM such as Prahaar along with the Brahmos1 Bk2/3? Why was it OK then as a pure tactical weapon and not now? Is it only because of the availability of Prithvi-3 or has something else changed? - Ashish

DefenseandAerospace said...

Prasun ,

Re the Indian Navy RFI's that you have posted , which companies do you think will respond

(1)Mobile Missile Coastal Batteries

(2) EO-IRSTs

(3) Helmet-Mounted NVDs

(4) Day-Night Rangefinders

(5) DGPS


And how long will it take for an RFP to come out for the above.


rad said...

Hi Prasun
why cant the prahar be converted to a sam missile. Its got tvc to boot and an active seeker can easily be integrated.

Anonymous said...

@Christian October 30, 2013 at 12:19 PM
Thanks for the explanation.
Yes what you said is true.

The context I was talking is:

US Govt/ US consulate in chennai used Local Christians to stall KKNPP. The fact is most of the christian institutions in india work for charity money for personal gains. This is true. These people are using Christianity for financial gain and in some cases to escape from the clutches of caste.

If service is the only motive these institutions can do anyway, why do only in the name of religion?

US/UK are known to use religion for dealing with a third country.

This is the context I was talking about.

Anyway Thanx for your explanation.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

The Indian Navy had issued an RFI last month for a Design Consultant for development of Naval Air Station & Armament Storage Facilities for Project Seabird Phase IIA at Kanwar.
Which are the companies that responded to this RFI ?

Is the Indian Army purchasing the WZT 3M Armored Recovery Vehicle ?

Thank You


abs said...

VMT and would like to have your opinion on the following:

Anonymous said...

Interesting read:


Bhaswar said...

Sir, which helmet is this?

Anonymous said...

Present reports says indian navy will go in for more naval Alh.Your take on it?

Present orders for ALH is IA at 40+105+45=190 of which 60 are Rudra version. So that each of 13 corps will get 10 utility ALH and and each of 3 strike corps will get 20 Rudra each.

IAf order is at 22+54=76 nos of which 16nos are Rudra version.

Thus total for defence stands at 190+76=266 with 8 for IN and upto 12 for coast guard.

This 286 order will be fullfilled by 2018. Upto 40nos more alh can orderred by IA for new strike corps and attrition reserve i.e, total of 326 nos and production of Alh for defence will stop.

Bhaswar said...

With the leap in technology isn't it possible now to integrate a proper seeker with the Akash and improve its range beyond the "mark-2" parameters? What happened to the mark-2 variant anyway? We need to move away from the command guidance scheme. The "powered flight all the way" and 18000 meters engagement altitude are keepers, but its old tech even by our standards-we should now aim for a container-ised and longer range variant of the Akash while preserving its dimensions and weight...what do you think? Doable? The missile should have the real-state required for the integration of an off the shelf Israeli/Russian seeker for proof of concept test for the user.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: There’s no need to liquidate the Hurriyat clique. Just revoke their Indian citizenship & banish them from Indian soil & let’s see which other country in the world grants them citizenship. India should adopt the same policy against separatists as countries like Russia, Saudi Arabia & Uzbekistan have done: revoke their citizenship & kick their arses out of their countries so that they do not threaten societal equilibrium. And of course it goes without saying that all these retards will converge in the world’s only available place of abode: Pakistan, just as the Arabas, Uzbeks, Chechans & Uighirs have done so far. What you’re suggested for Akash SAM does not make any sense from a financial standpoint, since a lot more money has already been poured into the VL-Barak-2 LR-SAM. After all, the Barak-2 too can engage airborne targets 25km away or even 40km away, can’t it? So where’s the need for Akash-1/2? The Army version of Akash-1 has been under development since 2005 & has yet to enter service!!! In terms of techno-economic matrix, the Akash-1/2 are financially & technologically UNVIABLE & after 2006 (when India decided to go for Barak-2/Barak-8NG) the ideal option would have been to retain the Akash’s command-and-control architecture (inclusive of the L-band Rajendra PESA BLR & S-band Rohini 3-D CAR) BUT WITH the Barak-2 SAMs. This is what inventory standardisation is all about in a rational world.

To ANIKATE: Didn’t miss it. Didn’t bother to answer before as it was accompanied by an inappropriate handle. Now that you have wisely posted under a decent handle, here are the answers: JF-17 Thunder’s airborne MMR has a detection range of less than 100km & a tracking range of 80km & therefore it can’t detect the Su-30MKI beforehand, since the Su-30MKI’s RSLU-30MK ‘Bars’ PESA-MMR has a 130km detection range. F-35 JSF still has a long way to go before replacing the A-10A warthogs, which will serve even in the next decade. The Jaguar IS is an excellent tactical strike aircraft & had the Govt of India in the early 1980s not forced the IAF to procure the MiG-23BN & MiG-27M, the Jaguar IS would have been ordered by the IAF in very large numbers. During mid-1999 the IAF decided to equip the Mirage 2000Hs first (instead of Jaguars) with Litening-2 LDPs & that’s why the Jaguars were sparingly used for OP Safed Sagar. It had nothing to do with Jaguar’s performance deficiencies. AWACS is a USAF-/NATO-specific terminology & is not generic. The term AEW & CS is a generic term. In terms of performance, there’s no difference.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Answer is simple: by the next decade, there will be a proliferation of air-defence systems capable of intercepting supersonic cruise missiles like BrahMos-1. Already, such air-defence systems are available, like Aster-15/30, Barak-2/Barak-8NG, Russia’s S-350E Vityaz & South Korea’s Cheongung MR-SAM that was derived from Vityaz. As for road/rail connectivity, any such infrastructure anywhere in the country is always most welcome & will spur regional economic development.
Manoj Joshi is absolutely right in his assessment, since building weapons of foreign origin under licence does not make India a nett gainer in anyway. Instead, it only inflates the acquisition costs to prohibitive levels. It is far more financially viable, therefore, to invest in localised MRO facilities for airframes, engines, avionics, instrumentation & accessories + 100% indigenisation of rotables & consumables like lubricants, additives, tyres, brake-pads, drag-chutes, lighting, wire harnesses, connectors, cables, etc, and selective import substitution in niche areas like mission computers, EW suites, IFF transponders, HF/VHF/UHF radios, operational data links, part-task trainers & CBTs. For the Rafale MMRCA too, this same approach should be undertaken. Follow this route & one will consequently have more money available for investing in indigenous weapons platforms & the IAF will have full operational sovereignty over its imported weapons.

To RAMAN: Land-mobile missile-based coastal defence batteries are typically reqd for engaging fast-moving & agile maritime targets like FAC-Ms & corvettes & that too out to a range of no more than 80km away from the coastline. This is because such batteries don’t have integral long-range over-the-horizon radars for target detection nor are they expected to rely on early warnings from MR/ASW aircraft. In fact, the present-day coastal surveillance system making use of S-/X-band radars (with 50km-range) now being established throughout India’s coastline will serve as the primary eyes & ears of the missile-based coastal defence batteries, which will typically deployed from Gujarat till Karwar. BrahMos-1 therefore becomes an overkill for such deployments from both operational & financial standpoints.
As for financial constraints this fiscal year, I had already stated way back last March that the Union MoF had issued go-slow orders for major procurement projects to the MoD by using various types of stalling tactics, so that the money saved can be used for bankrolling various vote-attracting welfare schemes in a pre-election year.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASHISH: VMT. But mind-bending? Enlightening would have been more appropriate, since what I had explained was not any kind of devastating revelation, but merely facts-on-the-ground that are well-known to those who are familiar with the topography of TAR. The Govt of India has been wrestling with the issue of TNWs since 2011 after Pakistan’s over-stated claim of possession of TNWs for its Hatf-9/Nasr NLOS-BSMs. That was the time the MoD directed the DRDO to come up with the Prahaar as a technology demonstrator. The DRDO, over-enthusiastic as ever, also then pit forth the idea of using TNW-armed Prithvi-2s. Subsequently, the Govt of India & other friendly govts realised that the Pakistan Army had no intention whatsoever of fielding any kind of TNWs, & that was the reason why the Pakistan Army has so far neither equipped itself for, nor has trained for fighting under NBC conditions. Obviously, Pakistan has realised that the introduction of TNWs will only lower the nuclear threshold & has therefore refrained from acquiring such TNWs. Consequently, it makes no sense for India to acquire such TNWs either for the sake of achieving strategic equilibrium. In any case, as far as the MoD’s Directorate General (Air) Quality Assurance (DGAQA) is concerned, missiles like Prahaar, Agni-3, PAD, PDV & AAD are not meant for series-production & are all solely technology demonstrators. This is borne out by the various posters displayed by the DGAQA at its booth during Aero India 2013. I photographed these posters & will upload them in the near future for all to see, for after all, seeing is believing, instead of reading the rants of jingoistic retards in certain chat-forums & blindly assuming them to represent facts.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: 1) Russia’s Club-K with 3M-25E missiles, Saab’s RBS-15, MBDA’s MM-40 Block-3, & Kongsberg’s NSM. 2) SAGEM’s VIGY family. 3) ELBIT Systems, TATA Power SED, L-3, THALES. 4) BEL, Elbit Systems, THALES & SAGEM. 5) Several from the US, France, Russia & Israel. 6) OEMs from Russia, France, the UK, Germany & Israel. RFPs will come out only after the latter half of next year.

To RAD: Of course it can, but is it worth it, since money has already been invested in the Barak-2/Barak-8NG programmes?

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

What is your take on this?


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: The very same UK-based, Australia-based & The Netherlands-based heavy engineering companies that were the original design consultants for Project Seabird’s Phase-1. Procurement of WZT-3M ARVs is now under a cloud after the BEML-TATRA scandal broke out last year, since BEML also represents Poland’s Bumar.

To ABS: The only two countries with a decisive say over Bangladesh’s political future are India & China, not the US. Suffice to say for now that both India & China are on the same page on this issue.

To Anon@2.37PM: The report never said ‘will’. It said ‘may’. Huge difference between the two. Dhruv ALH’s SAR version is ideal for the ICGS, but not for the IN. ICGS requires about 60 such helicopters. The IA will acquire several more armed Rudras in future IF it decides against ordering the LAH version of the LCH. On the other hand, if the IA decides to acquire 150+ LAHs, then there won’t be any need for ATGM-armed Rudras.

To NR: Since you’ve in the past evinced interest in my anecdotes, here’s one more: On this very day 29 years ago, after India’s then PM Smt Indira Gandhi was declared dead slightly after noon-time, three flights each comprising two F-16As took off from two PAF air bases headed towards Pathankot, Jodhpur & Bombay High by adopting a lo-lo-lo flight profile (about 500 feet AGL). Although they were all detected by the IAF’s ADGES & were tracked out to a distance of 10km away from India’s airspace (following which they turned back), those IAF air bases in J & K, Punjab & Rajasthan that were in peacetime tasked to respond to such ‘hostile’ flights by ordering their respective interceptors on ORP-alert status on that day all reported ‘DUFF’, meaning no such interceptors were available for scrambling on such short notice. Only the Jamnagar AFS’s MiG-21s were able to catch up with the Bombay High-bound F-16As over international airspace in the Arabian Sea , following which the F-16As headed back for Pakistani airspace. From the very next day, all IAF air bases stretching from J & K till Maharashtra were ordered by IAF HQ to maintain at least four interceptors on ORP—alert status for the following fortnight, while flights of four MiG-21s were temporarily deployed to even airports like the one in Mumbai & these MiG-21s undertook at least three daily airspace familiarisation flights for one entire week.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MUTTU: The report is only an attempt to invent some smoke without seeking out the fire. No one will try to sabotage India’s nuclear-related programmes at a stage when all such programmes have already taken off. The time to sabotage is when one is try to climb the R & D ladder (as was the case with Iran), & not after one has already successfully climbed it.

smarak mohanta said...

sir , what is all the fuss about a new surface to surface missile called will be great if you shed some light over it.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SMARAK MOHANTS: Already did that on October 30 & you can find it above. Anyway, here it is again:

As for Pragati/Prahaar, they are one & the same. Since that NLOS-BSM has no takers within India (since the IA is much happier with the BrahMos-1’s Blocks 2/3 & the Prithvi-3), it is now being FOOLISHLY offered by the DRDO for co-development with South Korea, not realising that the latter already has the 300km-range Hyunmu-2 NLOS-BSM (essentially a re-engineered Iskander-E). In fact, so ashamed is the DRDO about having wasted precious money on developing this technology demonstrator that this system does not even get a mention in the DRDO’s press-release on ADEX 2013. You may recall that I had stated in the previous thread that on October 7, 2013, India’s Nuclear Command Authority, which meets twice every year, decided that India will not acquire any TNW-armed short-range nuclear-armed missile of any type, meaning that the projected Prithvi-3 will be conventionally armed NLOS-BSMs after all as I had said all along. And since the 290km-range BrahMos-1 already exists as a conventionally armed NLOS-BSM with the IA, acquiring a 150km-range NLOS-BSM like Prahaar does not make any sense & that’s why no other test-firing of the Prahaar has taken place so far. The six-unit VLS shown at ADEX-2013 is also just a concept demonstrator just like what was displayed last year at DEFEXPO 2013 & on January 26 this year. All hermetically-sealed cannisters developed or being developed—be they for BrahMos-1 or K-15 SLBM or K-4 SLBM or Shaurya or Agni-4 or Agni-5 or Barak-2/8 or even Nirbhay—are all circular.

Bhaswar said...

So in your opinion the Akash system should come to a close with the Mark-2 variant?

But the experience gained in working with the integrated propulsion on the Akash can be used for a newer system, perhaps even a BVRAAM like the Meteor, no? My point was that while filling gaps with the Barak is all well and good why let what we have in hand languish? The Akash will continue to serve, the IAF and IA have inducted a certain number of them so why not move the missiles away from simple command guidance through an upgrade..that's not far too radical? Or are you saying that the Akash will be retired in 3-4 years or not be used at all. IF the Akash is meant to be used for the next decade then it needs upgrades.

Also, today we do have the building blocks in terms of radars and interceptors for a long range SAM so why are we not investing money into that. After all the PDV and AD-1/2 are geared expressly towards BM interception so why not work towards a system for long range aircraft interception so as to implement proper airspace denial against the opponent and make any SEAD/DEAD op relatively more difficult?

rad said...

HI Prasun
I doubt if the f-16A has the capability to come all the way to bombay in a lo lo flight profile.what was reason , to scare us ? or test our ability during crisis
Is the report that french and israeli pilots were allowed to fly on the Tejas true, that to without conversion, ,possible ?? the the option being flying the 2 seater in the back seat.
You said that the su-30 bars PESA radar had detection range of 130 km, we have been consistently reading reports that it can do 300km!!, is it track while scan range?
Comming to sams , the akash sam is a waste full expenditure, given the barak , spider which are fire and forget missiles etc.Due credit must be given for developing it but just seeing all the support vehicles and personnel needed to man these squadrons is mind boggling , more over its low level interception capability is in doubt.Will it be worth while and feasible to put an active radar seeker in its nose?. I seriously doubt the effectiveness of normal planar array radar associated with the akash in the times to come.

indian 11 said...

sir ,
please whack this article & the retard who has written it as best as u can from ur mouth/pen/hands..
i tried to write some comments abt the article but was at a loss for appropriate words..for this imbecile nincompoop.

P.S - i didn't read the whole article coz i simply cudn't stand it..plzz share if it has something worthwhile..

Bhaswar said...

Btw Prasun sir, are we really ready for SLBMs like the K-15 and canisterized A-5s? SLBMs and canisterized missiles mean that the warhead (along with the physics package) and the missile are already mated, this means that one you need a very reliable family of warheads and a highly developed command/authorization system? Are we truly ready?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

the answer you gave to #Ashish practically elaborates and answers my question on SNWs i asked a while back

If what you said to #ANIKATE still holds good then why is IAF not going in for increasing the numbers of Jaguars. I believe after 2009 no new Jagaur has entered service, i ask this bcoz sometime back i read that Jagaur airframe & other designs are very up to date, if so then 40 more (2 aquadrons) can easily be built to serve till 2050, your opinion

What you said to Anon@2.37PM about LAH version of LCH may be good but i think even if LAH version of LCH is selected IA will have to make do with 75+LAH and 75+ Rudra simply bcoz HAL will stubbornly put its foot down and say it wants both to be in service to recover cost

Why do you give quotes to 'Bars' always


Joydeep Ghosh

Raman said...

Okay/your point noted and understood.....

So, given that the financial crisis has hit the armed force and a number of procurements are not going to happen what are the 'low-cost' solutions that the armed forces can 'urgently' take up ???

Obviously Upgrades of existing equipments: like the Jaguar F125IN/Darin III; Chetak-Cheetah upgrades; BMP 2 upgrades; Super Su30MKI etc.......

Why the Forces/MoD not pushing these aggressively, in addition to faster domestic production of equipments like the Pinaka, T-90's, Su30's.. ????...........and, of course, cutting wasteful expenditure/trimming 'fat'.....

So what do you suggest they should do ????

Lingaraj said...

Pragati is better left on the Pragati be admired and appreciated by naive onlookers much like Dirk Diggler's monster penis!

Subir said...


1.What are those wingtip mounted escort jamming pods on super su30 ? EL/L-8251 is a huge belly mounted pod carried on the centreline pylon. So what are these ?And besides escort jamming are they capable of croos-eye jamming.

2.IAI has removed that article on EL/L-8251 from its Elta division page.So, can u pls say what are those two variants of EL/L-8251,how are they different from each other and what are their respective roles in escort jamming.

3.There are 12 hardpoints on Su30. Besides 6 Kh-31A there are 6 hardpoints left for carriage of WVRAAM and BVRAAM.

4.Russians must have developed a long range HADF for use with thier long range Kh-31PD and Kh-58. Otherwise they wouldnt have developed 245 km ranged ARMs.Su-30 can use those Russian origin RHAW/HADF pods for providing precise targetting data to Kh-31PD.

5.There are around 120 Jaguar IS in IAF.Why will just 58 Jaguar IS among this entire fleet be subjected to Darin 3 upgrades and installation of multi mode pulse doppler EL/M-2032 ?

Isnt there any aesa based directional jammer from elta which can be installed inplace of 8022?

6.Does any IAF Jaguar IS use Elta 20600P RTP for precision standoff bombing in all weather conditions even through cloud,rain,fog and BDA ?

7.Which standoff jamming pod and towed radar decoy were selected for the Darin 3 upgrade ?In the article on Darin 3 ,u said Rafale X-guard,El/l-8251 , Raytheon’s ALQ-184(V)9 , and a system from BAE Systems were the contenders. Finally which system was selected ?

8.What are the 15 different types of munitions that have been specified by IAF for DARIN 3 Jaguars ? What are the numerical requirements of each of these 15 munitions ?

Uptill now,were any deal concluded for these munitions barring the 512 Textron systems CBU-105 SFW?

9.How is Jaguar a good tactical strike aircraft when it can caccry just around 4500 kg of ordance, has 6 hardpoints for air to ground ordance and is everly underpowered. Its more of a light attack aircraft than a DPSA as termed by IAF.

10.In a RT tech report on Sukhoi T-50, it was told that different types of RAM and composites were applied in varying thickness over the entire airframe for achieveing VLO. And most of the aircraft is made from high strength carbon fibre composites. But if u look at the 5th PAK-FA prototype, it is evident the finish isnt good, the rivetting is visible clearly in the forward part of the fuselage.The surface finish was much inferior to Raptor and F-35. There wasnt any RAM or special coatings.Otherwise the rivets wont be visible Further there isnt even any minute shaping changes to the airframe. In its presnt form and the unstealthy aft fuselage and nozzles how can Pak-fa even match VLO characteristics of F-35.

11.Besides Hyunmu-2 and S-350 derived Mrsam,what are the other weapon systems in South Korean inventory that have been derived from Russian systems or had been jointly developed with Russia ?

12.Wont any of An-32RE get hardkill IR jammers , Adros T-32C and optronic turrets/flir kits for navigation in low light and white out conditions under fog.heavy fog is widespread in whole NE in the winter months.

13.Wont 215-250 Km Rbs-15,180 km Nshm and 135 km Kh-35 be overkill and inadequate for the mobile coastal defense batteries when there sre just 50-80 km radars for provding targetting data. ?

where will these coastal defense batteries be deployed ?

14. LM's Skunk works has disclosed its plans on a hypersonic successor to Sr-71 termed sr-72. Besides being an ISR asset it will also be used for strike purposes of HVT.developement is scheduled to begin in 2018. But dont u think,considerable work on sr72 has already been done and maybe it has already flown, otherwise Uncle Sam wont have revealed about it at all. At mach 6.0 it will be imposiible to intercept.

Sujoy Majumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

(1) Is there any military technology that the UK can give India that the US cannot give already ?

(2) Why is GOI unwilling to give a plot of land to Russia in Delhi for constructing the Orthodox Church ?


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: In my humble opinion, it’s no use ordering two tools when a single tool alone can do the job. If you want to commute to your workstation from your residence & back, would you order 1 vehicle or two vehicles? Akash-1 has emerged after an astonishing 25 years of R & D & what remains relevant today after money has been sunk into the Barak-2 LR-SAM project is only the Akash-1’s command & control system. The missile round itself is just a slightly re-engineered 2K12E missile that was originally used by the Kvadrat MR-SAM of the mid-1970s. Just compare the Akash-1 missile’s length with that of the KS-1A & ask yourself why the former has a 25km-range while the latter has a proven 57.5km-range. In light of the above, procuring Akash-1/2 concurrently with Barak-2/Barak-8NG is as futile as procuring the FGFA & AMCA. Akash-1’s ramjet propulsion mechanics is of 1970s vintage & cannot be employed for any LRAAM. Only the IAF has inducted Akash-1. The IA continues to wait for it, for how much longer I wonder. I have explained numerous times before why the IAF doesn’t want LR-SAMs for intercepting aircraft. LR-SAMs are totally useless against SEAD/DEAD versions of combat aircraft since the latter can easily reduce altitude & stay below the LR-SAM’s ground-based target engagement radars. PDV & even AD-1/AD-2 won’t have the same lateral acceleration of the Barak-2, which is 80G. The AAD has a lateral acceleration of only 7G. Truly credible SLBMs will be available only in the following decade when the S-5/S-6/S-7 SSBNs become available. Deploying 700km-range SLBMs on S-2/S-3/S-4 won’t deter anybody, especially China.

To RAD: With 3 external fuel tanks the F-16A can indeed make it. The PAF’s mission wasn’t meant to scare India, but only to test the IAF’s reaction response times in the event of a national emergency. No foreign experimental test pilot has flown any version of the Tejas Mk1 MRCA thus far. 130km range of RSLU-30MK ‘Bars’ PESA-MMR is valid for detection of fighter-sized airborne targets. 305km-range target detection range applies to commercial airliners, not combat aircraft. Akash-1 was originally meant for delivery from 2000 & by 2020 was due for replacement. Waiting for 25 years for Akash-1 is a criminal waste of money & effort.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To INDIAN11: The author of that report urgently requires psychiatric assistance, no doubt about that!!! Almost each & every sentence in that article is nothing but total hogwash & absolute baloney. If at all the intention was to highlight the need for initiating cost-cutting measures, then the author should have criticised the MoD’s decision to upgrade the limited number of available MiG-29s & Mirage 2000s. The money saved from these two upgrade programmes could easily have been invested into the Rafale MMRCA procurement programme in order to ensure accelerated off-the-shelf deliveries of at least four Rafale squadrons, or 80 Rafales. In fact, this very advice was given to the Govt of India by both the French govt & Dassault Aviation as far back as 2007.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Jaguar IS can be series-produced anytime by HAL anytime it wants to, since all the production-relating tooling has already been transferred by BAE Systems to HAL. The 125 re-engined Jaguar IS will easily remain in service till 2035. The IA’s AAC requires more than 150 Dhruv Mk4s (Rudras minus the ATGMs) in the years to come, while the IAF requires about 70 & the ICGS about 60. Therefore, project cost amortisation is not an issue.

To RAMAN: Regretably, none of them are low-cost solutions & all of them require huge capital outlays. In fact, just look at the pathetic amount of funds set aside for the DRDO! What’s reqd is a total transformation & a total rethink on national security postures, which should translate into major manpower reductions in the IA, which is presently too bloated. For, against a nuclear overhang, long gone are the days when all-out war was a distinct reality. Instead, today, against both China & Pakistan, limited high-intensity conflicts are the norm & will remain so for the next 50 years & therefore what’s reqd are investments in network-centric force multipliers.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUBIR: 1) Already answered that before. EL/L-8251 may be huge for a Jaguar IS or MiG-27UPG, but not for Su-30MKI. 2) That kind of data is not available. 4) What’s the Russian HADF called? Where is it? Which OEM is producing it? 5) 125 Jaguar IS in all will have DARIN-3 avionics. 58 is only the first tranche. 6) No. No one goes bombing when it’s raining. 7) IAF has decided against equipping Jaguar IS with such pods. Only internal EL/M-8022 suite will go. 8) CBU-105s, Griffin-3 LGBs WVRAAMs & OFB-produced bombs. 9) It’s underpowered only when operating in daytime from Rajasthan & Haryana in summertime, not elsewhere. Lightweight LGBs are available now & they can be carried in far greater numbers. 10) That’s why the T-50 PAK-FA will look totally different from the FGFA, as I have always stated. 11) Hyunmu-3 LACM. 12) No. 13) The coastal battery-launched versions of these missiles will have smaller lengths than their air-launched versions. Range of up to 130km will be enough since these ASCMs will navigate to their targets via waypoints & will never fly straight. 14) Lockheed Martin has since 1990s delivered the SR-75 Penetrator & SR-74 SCRAMP XR-7 Thunderdart. SR-72 is just a smokescreen.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: 1) Not to the best of my knowledge. 2) Sheer obstinacy.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Wishing everyone a joyous Deepavali.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Prasun. I'm pleasantly surprised to know that you have remembered my request that I perhaps made more than a year ago. Let them come a plenty.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To NR: VMT. Will do.

Bhaswar said...

One last question on the MKI's EW suite. IF the SEAD variant will carry the EL/L-8251 jammers then surely it will not carry the wingtip mounted escort jammers since both of these systems perform the same function of degrading the performance of ground based ADGE components? So ONLY the DEAD optimized variant will carry the two escort jammers, will the escort jammers be the KNIRTI SPS-171 / L005S Sorbtsiya-S or the newer KNIRTI SAP-518? Surely the MKIs will not carry the EL/L-8251 and the wing tip mounted escort jammers together?

Although the Russians did display a model at one of the previous MAKS where a Sukhoi was carrying two wing tip mounted KNIRTI SAP-518 jammers AND a center line mounted SAP-14 high power jamming pod, what was that for, a growler like variant? Will we do the same with the EL/L-8251 and SAP-518 combo if we do use both systems together?

As per Carlo Kopp the Sorbtsiya system can provide cross-eye jamming, is he accurate on this?

ALSO the Americans knocked out the TTP supremo Hakimullah Mehsud. Seems like Pakistan has more leverage left in its pockets than you had assessed, they had been asking the Americans to turn some of their attention towards the TTP. The Americans seem to have complied in return for some quantum of cooperation on Afghanistan and the Afghan taliban it seems? Also this would put a dent in the idea of Pakistan having to fight a COIN war for more than another decade since the TTP leadership seems to now be in American cross hairs, what do you say to that?

Pierre Zorin said...

I like the answer, "No. No one goes bombing when it’s raining." So true - either it rains rain or rains bombs! It's like taking a shower outdoors when it is raining! Ha ha ha really funny...and to ask that question....

Bhaswar said...

Also you didn't provide any details on the existing data-link features on the MKI? Are we looking at something as evolved as the Gripen's TILDS?

Also what of moving over to digital Fly by wire and satellite communications facility?

Also does the existing BARS radar have a high resolution SAR ground mapping mode? Carrying that over to an AESA which will then operate that mode in an interleaved manner along with its A2A track and scan modes will be enough to provide low altitude infiltration capabilities?

Bhaswar said...

Back in 2011 you had also categorically stated that ONLY the IN's maritime strike Jaguars will be equipped with the EL/M-2032 MMR. Also that a towed decoy was also under consideration for the Jag upgrade?

So with the MMRs finding a place on the Jag darin-3s it shouldn't need to carry systems like the EL/M-20600 radar targetting pod (RTP) which you had talked about, yes?

Also while the MILDS-F can indeed be carried on an under-wing pylon like you mentioned before doesn't that take away available space for stores, after all the Jag only has 5 hardpoints as such, in fact so far we have not even seen the addition of a hardpoint for the EO Pod under the engine intake (like in most modern fighters) meaning that the available hardpoints are going to be stretched as it is.

Or will an additional hardpoint be added for the EO or MAWS pod?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: ALL SEAD/DEAD-configured Super Su-30MKIs will be hardwired to carry wingtip-mounted EL/L-8251 jamming pods (for SEAD missions) & the SIVA HADF pod + Kh-31Ps (for DEAD missions). What they will be equipped with during wartime will depend on platform availability for specific missions. Question of them being equipped with any other pod does not even arise. KNIRTI SAP-518 & SAP-14 jammers are BOTH for escort jamming—a job that can be performed by just 2 x EL/L-8251s. Engaging in either signature or personality strikes with armed RPAs does not lead to any COIN campaign being degraded overnight, as is evidently the case in both Yemen & Somalia. The insurgents always have a leadership hierarchy for which replacements are available aplenty. Already stated several times that the IAF’s data-link is the miniaturised airborne operational data-link (ODL) from Tadiran Electronics. RLSU-30MK/’Bars’ PESA-MMR was enhanced with SAR mapping mode & GMTI mode ONLY LAST YEAR & all existing PESA-MMRs of the Su-30MKIs are now being upgraded through software uploads to make use of such modes. Back in 2011 that was what the ground situation was regarding the Jaguar IS/IM. EL/M-20600 RTP is not MMR & is used for totally different purposes. It is more like the SIVA pod. And there are no extra EO/MAWS pods reqd. The illustration above clearly shows existing main underwing pylons’ rear sections being equipped with MAWS sensors. There’s no such hardware as EO/MAWS pod & therefore all existing pylons of Jaguar IS can carry external ordnance.

Bhaswar said...

What I was asking with regard to the EL/M-20600 RTP is that a radar targeting pod should not be required if a MMR is being fitted on to the Jaguar anyway, yes?

Sir I asking about the placement of an eletro-optic targeting/laser designator pods like say the LITENING or Damocles on the Jaguar. Since the Jag only has 5 hardpoints ergo my question that won't the addition of a targeting pod leave only 4 hardpoints for fuel tanks or munitions- like in this case-

So MILDS-F MAWS will be embedded into the pylon itself rather than being carried in a podded form?


+ how does the LR-SAM fit in with India's future AAD network?

AFAIK there are around 150 Vunerable Areas/Points as indentified by the GoI which all require SAM coverage.

What kind of overlap will we see between the Akash, LR-SAM and MR-SAM?


++ Prasun,

Where does the SDPYER fit into all this?

How many SPYDER betteries wlll India eventually get?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da , Happy Diwali .

May the Divine blessings Of Maa Kali be with you always

Happy Kali Puja

Bhaswar said...

Also can the pylon embedded MILDS-F solution be employed on the LCA Mk.1/2? If yes then is this yet again a case of the ADA and MOD sleeping while folks like you scream from the rooftops?

Has any progress been made on the indigenous production of LRUs? What percentage of these MK.1 LRUs will be carried over to the Mk.2 and will they be eligible for carry over to a 5th gen platform?

Sir the FGFA will most probably have an avionics suite based on a integrated modular avionics, how will we be able to design something like that on our own? I believe that you stated the FGFA and PAK-FA will look different? On both counts how is that possible? We are having a hard enough time building the LRUs (hell even our mission computers are built in a JV with edgewood, how will be design the same for a 5th gen platform) for the Tejas and any change in the design of the PAK-FA will set the FGFA project back quite a bit so how can the two products end up looking different unless you are referring to a different sort of finish and build quality in the latter due to more composites being used, otherwise the "shape" of the air frame itself cannot change?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: I already clarified above that EL/M-20600 RTP is not MMR & is used for totally different purposes. RTP is more like the SIVA HADF pod, which is used for obtaining the directional coordinates of hostile ground-based radars—something which no MMR can do. Jaguar IS has 8 hardpoints or 6 pylons. One of the two belly-mounted pylons carries Litening-2 LDP. Remaining 5 pylons can easily accept dual-/triple-ejector racks. External tanks can be done away with since AAR probes are available on Jaguar US/DARIN-3. Of course pylon-embedded MILDS-F solution can be applied on Tejas MRCA. And of course ADA has been sleeping on this so far, just as ADA’s present-day Director admitted at a seminar last February just prior to Aero India 2013 that he NEVER KNEW that issues like a combat aircraft’s per-hourly direct operating costs or required maintenance man-hours per flying hour mattered to any air force!!!
LRUs for Tejas Mk1 can never be regarded as Gen-5 avionics by any stretch of the imagination. It will take at least eight years at the very least to indigenise most, if not all avionics LRUs. T-50 PAK-FA will sport riveted airframe structures, while FGFA won’t & will use composites-based airframe panels. Except the US & Russia, no one else can come up with totally indigenous platforms. Even the US outsources various components from European OEMs. If Europe, Japan & China can’t achieve such feats, how will India???

To TRUTHSEEKER: 150 VAs/VPs applies to only the western front. What about the northern & northeastern fronts? The number then goes up to beyond 500 VAs/VPs. Akash-1 is just like a point defence system for air base air-defence purposes. The 70km-range Barak-2 will become the IAF’s principal prolific MR-SAM & 110km-range Barak-8NG LR-SAMs will not be ordered in large quantities. If the IAF chooses an E-SHORADS like the 40+km-range IRIS-T SLM, then there will no need at all for Akash-1/2. The SR-SAM SHORADS to be co-developed with MBDA alone has a projected range of 25km, so what’s reqd now is a fire-n-forget IIR-guided SR-SAM, which the SpyDer-SR (with Python-5) can easily fulfill. Therefore, a hybrid land-mobile SHORADS comprising VL SR-SAM & VL Python-5 & using the Ashwini APAR-based target engagement will be the optimum SHORADS solution for both the IAF & IA & such a solution, along with Barak-2/Barak-8NG will be more than enough for a hierarchical, integrated air-defence network. Consequently, the Akash-1/2 missiles & their TELs will become redundant.

To VIKRAM GUHA: VMT & the very same to you & all your loved ones.

Mr. Ra 13 said...

Happy Diwali...

In what major aspects the FGFA may differ from PAK-FA, except for the number of seats? Please inform.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 13: VMT & the very same to you & all your loved ones. I had already replied to this query on October 18 in the previous thread. Anyway, here it is again: Presently, while HAL is involved with design & development of an FGFA airframe most of whose skin will be built with composites, the DRDO’s DARE will customise the integrated EW suite (inclusive of the multi-sensor warning system or MSWS) for the FGFA’s airframe, since this suite will be an offshoot of that being developed for the Super Su-30MKI. Then there’s the OBOGS on-board oxygen generation system that L & T has already built for the Tejas Mk1 & Su-30MKI & which will be customised to go on board the FGFA, while the HAL-developed GTSU-127 turbine jet-fuel starter for the Tejas Mk2 MRCA will be customised for installation on the FGFA. The HAL-Edgewood JV’s mission computer too will go on-board, as will the digital flight-control computers & digital air-data computers. Carbon-carbon brake-pads for the landing gear & pilot’s protective clothing & survival kit too will be indigenous, as will the VHF/UHF radios, two-way operational data-links with built in encryption/secrecy features, cockpit emergency audio warning generator & the mission-planning system. As for the rest, like electro-hydraulic actuators, accessories, distributed-architecture AESA-MMR, air-data sensors, dual IRST sensors, weapons-launch pylons & their interface boxes, HMDS, LDP, emergency personal locator beacon, canopy severance system, rangeless ACMI pods & the all-important AL-41F turbofan will have be of imported origin. Additional Indian R & D/industrial contribution can be made (although not yet formalised) in areas like flight simulator/tactical mission trainer development, & development of the FGFA’s maintenance simulator—areas where ADA & ADE are still lagging behind even with regard to the Tejas Mk1 MRCA project.

reddy said...

I have seen the ISRO MOM Page on facebook and NASA Maven as well.

As an amateur, based on those images ISRO seems to be not lagging behind in R&D infrastructure to that of NASA (Not going much into detail such as Cryogenic Engines etc) but regarding general infrastructure.

Pierre Zorin said...

Quoting Avinash Chander, "India is looking to attract potential foreign buyers for its defence industry products as the indigenous manufacturers can offer weapons at a better price and in a shorter period of time ". Is this not making India look like North Korea in terms of silly vaunting? Looking at the time and cost overruns on various go go gadget projects, failed weaponry and general failure to even make the basic systems available within India how on earth can a Director make such strange claims?

Bhaswar said...

VMT for the replies sir.

Along with the PIDS+ will we also see integration of Terma's Advanced Threat Display system in the Jag cockpit? What of the AN/ALQ-213(V)decision support and management system, will it also find its way on to the aircraft? IF not then what analogous system will work as the EW management system?

The PIDS+ is hundred percent confirmed though, yes?

Also its a bit surprising that there is no real estate for self-protection jammer integration on the Jag or am I missing something? If the air craft could have carried a CMDS itself then we could have opted for the ECIPS+ instead of PIDS+. Or will we see integrated self protection jammers on the jag one way or the other?

What sort of performance increase will we see with the new engine? Honeywell claims that a 2000kg increase in allowable takeoff weight and nearly 30 percent increase in combat radius will occur? Optimistic or just marketing figures which might not go that way in real?

If so then what do you think will be the parameters of the new Jag in terms of combat radius (lo-lo-lo) with no fuel tanks and full load of ARM/PGM, any idea sir?

How many jags will finally be converted to Darin-3 and when will the first squadron be up and running? What is going to be the per year production rate?



How well guarded are the IAF's Phalcon AWACS? could a similar fate befall them as what happened to the PAF's Erieyes?

Same question for the C-17s that are also stragic assets to the nation.

Bhaswar said...

OR, on the topic of the self protection jammer, will we end up using the EL/L-8222 as on the Darin-2s, is one unit on the vertical tail of the Darin-2s enough protection when the AC embarks on SEAD?

Also could you provide the breakup- how many maritime strike jags do we have, how many Darin-2s and what will the jag fleet look like after completion of Darin-3 project?

Pintu said...

Wishing Very Happy Kalipuja and Diwali to Prasun Da and everybody here.

Ron said...

Sir, EL/M-20600P is completely different to SIVA HADF. Siva is for providing precise coordinates of hostile emitters. Whereas el-20600p is a radar targetting pod. Its a radar optimised for strike purposes. Its for those strike aircrafts which doesnt have any radar OR the radar doesnt sport sar,isar,glti/t and rdbs.By providng high resolution sar imagery of the target area from a defintely standoff distance, it enables precision bombing with standoff or non stan pgm with iir or mmw seekers in an independent manner when the target hasnt been fixed before hand and its coordinates burnt into the flash memory of the guidnace comp of the pgm.Its especially helpful when cloud cover,fog or other visual impediments are present over the target or in immediate vicinity of it when your LDP wont work. The limitations of laser guidance and this bombong technique became eveident in Op Desert Strom of 91 when Iraquis lit massive bonfires around the target and in adjoining areas thus saturating the airspace with black smoke through the laser ebam cant et through and during desert storms. This ultimately led the US to come up with Jdam and mate GPS recievers with the existing stockes of lgbs. elm-20600p utilsing radio waves have no such problem.

Earlier in some comments you had hold there were some RTP in service with Jaguars of IAF.

The wingtip escort jammers are too small for being ell-8251.ell-8251 is having almost similar dimensions to the centreline carried SAP-14 frm KNIRTI.

And, as for 120 Jaguar IS remaining in service till 2035,for anotehr 15-20 years, the first Jaguar entered service in 1979 and most are of early 1980s vintage. The airframe has almost exhausted service life and its TTSL may well have been extended once. But is it possible to extend ttsl for more than once ? Whats the difference between ttsl expansion and zero-lifing.Does zero-lifing means the airframe is refurbished in such a manner that its as new as an aircraft which havent logged any hours and is having the exact same ttsl as it used to have previously.Like if ann aircraft had 4500 hrs of service life, after zer-lifing and re-engining or replacement of the hot-end components will it again have another 4500 hrs

How long will it take for the submarine tnder with the dsrv onboard to reach Vishakapattnam so that INS Arihant seatrials can begin?

Bhaswar said...

@Ron That's exactly where my doubt lies. The thing is that it was Prasun Da's thread only which educated me about the RTP-

"the 196kg EL/M-20600 radar targetting pod (RTP) from Israel Aerospace Industries’ (IAI) ELTA Systems Division, and RAFAEL Advanced Defence Systems’ Litening-3SU laser designator pod. The former integrates synthetic aperture radar (SAR) imaging, ground moving target indication (GMTI) and precision target tracking into a single sensor. The RTP thus provides high-quality radar images of ground targets and terrain from standoff ranges, even through clouds, rain, fog, battlefield smoke and man-made camouflage, thus also catering for immediate post-strike bomb damage assessment (BDA)." (from-

The above was Prasun Da's write up from 2011. And that is why its rather confusing when Prasun Da states that the RTP serves a similar function as the SIVA HADF, the latter seems to emulate the Thales ASTAC pod in the sense that both provide a high precision direction finding capability.

Furthermore the EL/L-8251 jammers do look rather large but maybe their is a smaller variant like in the case of the 8222 jammer. Prasun Da can perhaps the provide the details?

AKHIL SURI said...

Prasun Ji ,

Did the GOI carry out a through investigation before coming to the conclusion that Chief Negotiator Arun Kumar Bal's death was because of natural reason ? It appears very mysterious though .

Already our scientists working on INS Arihant are getting killed & Anthony & party are doing nothing.

- Akhil

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RON & BHASWAR: You are absolutely right. My endless apologies for wrongly comparing the RTP with SIVA. Will clarify the issues you've raised tonight for sure.

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