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Sunday, September 28, 2014

India-PRC Boundary Dispute Decoded

India’s First catastrophic Error: Failing to detail her territorial boundary claims in a consistent manner between 1950 and 1954 and issuing conflicting political maps (below):
As a result, the PRC was free to make territorial claims, especially in the Western Sector (below) and also secure the Aksai Chin area uncontested and without any military opposition.
India’s second catastrophic error: Initiating the ‘Forward Policy’ (below) under which logistically unsustainable and militarily indefensible forward military observation posts and pickets were set up (below):
And as a result of all this...
This then brings us to the present-day ground situation:


RD said...

Apart from these the other serious concerns occurring recently are the docking of Chinese sub in Colombo & proposed work in isthmus of Kra just near Andaman & Nicobar islands. So we can expect transgressions in sea.

The tactics of the Chinese r simple as illustrated in the link-

"with every intrusion, China changes the ground realities at the border, gaining ever more territory in the process and redrawing the map in its favour..."
Thus each time flag meeting occurs chunk of Indian territory will be regarded as 'disputed' & steps for removing structures or 'demilitarization' has to be taken. Even the Chinese perception of LAC is not final & there is no guarantee that it will not extend further deep inside Indian territory.

RD said...


The Chinese have unilaterally declared the nine dash lines in South China Sea without consulting the neighbours.

Even the Chinese in a very clever manner took the shaksgam valley & have a hidden desire to claim some PoK areas in future. The presence of Chinese army in Pok indicate that only. The Pakistanis r so obsessed with anti-India feelings that they gifted it in a humble way. The Shaksgam valley had nothing to do with the Xinjiang highway.

Its difficult to understand what are the real intentions of China.

rad said...

hi Prasun
The drdo says its ready to deliver the emb -145 awacs to the airforce when it is ready . This means that the aesa radar and its software are able to detect and discriminate targets in a various modes. It also means that the algorithms developed by it are working. Given the past record of not delivering i am suspicious ,but i hope i am proven wrong.
There seems to be a lot of sensor fusion which is a hi tech affair, ie ecm ,comint,esm ,Df etc. Of course one thing is certain ,the airforce will compare the parameters with the state of the art phalcon awacs and know where we stand, so thats reassuring. Have we developed the source code in house or we got help?. Again did we co develop the phalcon source code or is it totally Israeli?.Please give us a good write up with pics on this awacs as well as the bombardier special mission aircraft.

rad said...

HI Prasun

I feel that we should go for the boeing 767 awacs platform for our large awacs program due to the fact that the rotodome has been already proven and flight tested , rather than wait for more time if we choose the airbus A-300 series.In todays scenario it will be hard for the US to refuse. As the Airframe is also large ,we can mount a SAR on the belly for surface surveillance making it a wonderful multi roll platform. With more space we can mount even more comprehensive suites of various kinds and sat antennae.
The Icing on the cake would be to rope in Japan as well and co develop it ,as it is looking out to make its own awacs since the Chinese aggression.
It would have great export potential to friendly countries as it would be cheaper made in india.please comment

Pi said...

there is one thing that is missing from the indians...balls. All you talk about is this weapon or that but if you have no balls to stand upto china, what use is your weapons. Even your Modi was humiliated on home soil. Imagine begging for investment whilst your soldiers are pissing in their pants.

Anonymous said...

It's not Indians but Chinese who are pissing in their pants as USA their main benefactors, have wizened up to dragons true designs and are well on their way to cut the dragon's tail short. China is the new USSR for USA. And China has literally no friends anywhere unlike USSR.
What's stopping massive foreign investments is our red tape, archaic labor laws and anti business laws which favor few local companies while making it difficult for foreign investors to invest directly in India. All this is gonna change. Don't forget, till 1990s China used to be the world's largest recipient of food aid. China is a bubble which will burst sometime in future.

rad said...

to pi
What makes you think that indians are scared of china?, politicians like sonia ghandhi and arse kissers like manmohan singh are.Because they dont represent the majority . By and large the nehru dynasty has destroyed this great country as they always have , Its a matter of a donkeys leading lions unfortunately, now there is a lion in the front. we could have stopped the chinese in their tracks and avoided the debacle if fools like nehru and the politicians at that time realized the double speak of a third rate communist leader . It will never happen again. In fact now china is more worried about india and talks of being partners rather than rivals.
If there is war than the looser will be china in the long term as there will be a grand coalition of all the countries around china including USA, china knows this all too well. Believe me the armed forces are ready .Not a single chinese ship will pass through the Malacca straights after that.
Remember it was the indian soldier who effectively went to china and controlled the boxer revolutiion , the chinese know that.

Abs said...

I still haven't quite assimilated your detailed efforts at putting up maps and texts to help us understand the Indo-Sino border dispute. Once I'm done I would definitely get back to you.
Meanwhile I would request you to reply to my previously asked questions, which I put up in the following comment.

Abs said...

1)I remember you had remarked the post of CDS could only get created following the articulation of SDR which would in turn need a full time Defence Minister. So am I to conclude the formulation of an SDR is on the cards?
2) "Strike Corps HQ will be used only for theatre command-and-control. The armoured brigades of the Corps will be used in an autonomous manner for both massing & dispersal depending on the fluid nature of the battlespace."
This is interesting. So basically the Strike Corps HQ is being fashioned for only Command & Control. While it's elements are being used autonomously like IBG, Autonomous Armoured Brigades. If I remember correctly, this is what the Integrated Theatre Concept is.

Does the same hold true of the Artillery, because based on what I know the Indian Army is likely to use Artillery for waging simultaneous warfare along multiple fronts both at the contact level and the depth?

What comes of the Pivot Corps? Is their role only limited to the defence of the territories annexed/captured?

3)Prasunda you have numerous times remarked how the Indian Army-Indian Airforce combine has checkmated the Pakistan Army's TNW card through adoption of Pro-Active Strategy along the Western Border with Pakistan while adopting what the media defines as 'Cold Start' along the Northern Borders. Would love to know, how? Because Cholistan is not much inhabited nor is the Shakargarh Bulge, therefore leaving Pakistan Army free to drop Nukes in their own territory against Indian formations.

4)Brahma Chellaney rues the absence of any 'Offensive Defence' posture vis-a-vis China.
And this holds some merit. We have always had grand plans of like Pro=Active strategy/Cold-Start,Parallel Hyper War,etc. but such strategies are not forthcoming when it comes to China. Would love to know why this anomaly? And in case I'm wrong, would like you to explain and elaborate.

abs said...

NaMo is on a visit to the US. The hype it has generated only makes me more curious. And therefore I hope without sounding rude I would point to you the following:
Kerry has gone on record saying "We want history to remember what PM Modi did for India's development & what Mahatma Gandhi did for its freedom in same breath".

Couple this with India changing her Middle East Policy, reports of which emerged few weeks back.
And India's increasing parleys with the ASEAN countries, would mean India after long last has woken from her slumber and has chosen to embark on the path, with active US support, of occupying the strategic space that the US would empty in the Middle East and the ASEAN(Something The US wanted India to do all along, since it knew in the coming decades it would be confining itself to the Pacific).
Praveen Swami has an interesting

Would love to have the facts verified from you on my conclusion and your views. And if you could throw light on the key takeaways from the present US visit.

abs said...

^Read somewhere Obama would offer India "$500 Bn in investments" along with the carrot of helping India become a "$10 Trillion Economy". Anyhow I await your response.

Anonymous said...

Im deeply saddened & frustrated every time i read Chinese incursion into India. Tell what Chinese had rights on these territories? Their answer is simple, historical coonection. well isay thats a bullshit. China never owned the places like Turkestan & Tibet. The real China cultural influence is upto inner mongolia, Han area. Tibet, Turkestan & whole of Himalaya belongs to India, as we have every historical connections & cultural influence. So tell me Indians, are u guys truly achieved independence? After British, China has taken your territories, & humiliating more year by year. Its shows how stupid & ignorant are the INidans nowadays, when such Chinese who belongs to east china sea, breathing all around india now through land & sea. take that fools

vrp said...

In your view what should be a solution to end this border dispute?

Gessler said...

Sir, can you give us some details about the roles & capabilities of this ship -

How many such ships will IN want?

VeryMuchTalented said...

The answer is 37

VIP said...

Sir look at this:

"Modified Mi-17 V5 will be the new VVIP helicopters for PM Modi, confirms IAF chief Raha. After all, the Russians 'win'. Was on the cards."

It seems you were wrong and unfortunately the AW-101 fleet will NOT be revived for IAF use for the PM and such- heartbreaking news really and crazy considering the Mi-17s are no patch on the AW-101 in this role.

How did you get the news so wrong? You were saying the IAF's AW-101s would start to be used in October and the remaining units delivered by Feb 2015. None of this seems to be remotely true.

Lupitas said...


I have just read a report stating the IAF is placing all 3 AW-101s that were delivered into storage indefinitely. They are going to uograde 10 of their Mi-17 V5s for VVIP use to replace the AW-101s.

I looked at your blog post from a few weeks back "heading in the right direction......" Where you stated the Aw/101s will be used and the remaining 9 delivered from the UK soon.

Was that gassed in facts because sadly it seems as though that was pure fantasy and pathetically the IAF is going ahead with the scrapping of the AW-101 deal.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIP & LUPITAS: Why put the AW-101s up for storage & that too indefinitely? Which air force ever does that? Any hardware that won't be used is either scrapped or disposed off on an as is where is basis through public tender. Some Mi-17V-5s are already equipped with seats for ferrying high-ranking military officials & yet why were they not used by NaMo when he made an aerial survey of flood-hit J & K? Why only the IA Chief & IAF Chief used them?

The 'desi' news-reporters obviously have a lot more to absorb & learn before they make delusional twits, rest assured. And I would urge you all too to apply common-sense & logical reasoning before you all start jumping to conclusions based on irrational assumptions. And that's because the 10 Mi-17V-5s to be used for VIP transport by military officials were ordered way back in February 2013 during the Aero India 2013 expo, well before the AW-101 contract was prematurely terminated. Check out the news reports emanating from that expo in case you don't believe it.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Read this:

The order for the 3 VIP-standard Mi-17V-5s was subsequently increased from 3 to 10--all in 2013 itself, well before AKA terminated the AW-101 contract in January 2014.

Unknown said...

Dear Prasunda and all

Happy dussehra and seasons greetings

Prasunji missing your presence and thought evoking responses in this blog

best wishes


vrp said...

your views on this news, if it is true what should be India's strategy.
also is it true that pakistan navy is going to be nuclear armed? what will be its strategic impact on India?


Vikram Guha said...


SUBHO BIJOYA to you and your loved ones.

Best Regards,

abs said...

Bijayar Pranaam nebe Prasunda

Gessler said...

Seems like a pretty significant development -

Any words on the uses & benefits of this system? It also seems the Indo-US defence industrial cooperation is finally bearing some fruits.

Reddy said...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNIWN/KUNAL, VIKRAM GUHA &ABS: VMT, & the very same to you & all your loved ones. Just concluded a week of flight-tests of some new-generation NAVAID avionics & will resume blogging tonight, especially answering all the outstanding queries. Cheers!

To GESSLER: Far from that, the question to be asked is: Why has TATA Power SED teamed up with Honeywell when the armed forces have gone full-scale ahead with the induction of SAGEM’s Sigma-30/40/95N RINS family? Why did TATA power SED not even bother to undertake commercial production of the DRDO-developed RINS? It must be admitted though that Honeywell’s TALIN family of RINS is much more compact. Here, do browse through this:


Sikorsky Helicopters S-97 Raider Rolled Out:

rad said...

I dont think sagem ever offered to Give TOT for its inertial nav systems, so in a way it is better if we have a total indigenous make nav system. If the chinese start to patrol the surrounding sea lanes of india , i think the navy should also reciprocate by sending ships at least into the south china sea on some pretext as they have . we should also develop closer ties with phillipines to ge the message acros and have combined exercise with them.
Why did the US issue a statement that America will not form a US-Japan-India group.

rad said...


Sleek and sexy is the right word to describe the s-97. I wonder how they over came the bladetip problem going supersonic with this great increase increase in speed?

Sarath Kumar said...

Mr Prasun, what do you think is the future of the FGFA project? More importantly, what is going to be the air wing of IAC-2 carrier??

Any progress on that ship?

What exactly is the power capacity (mw) of the reactor supposed to go on that ship? What is its status?

VMT in advance!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) The Ruskies aren’t exactly to blame for this. And that’s because it’s well known that Russia’s OEMs & OKBs are facing severe human resource constraints. Furthermore, Russian engine manufacturers have not yet been able to come up with solutions that can match their Western counterparts. For instance, for 312 Su-30MKIs, the IAF requires about 1,300 AL-31FPs, whereas for 189 Rafales, less than 400 M88s will be required. Now, the Ruskies had proposed in 2010 that instead of 1,300 AL-31FPs, India should order only 650 AL-31FPs, with the balance being accounted for by the 153kN thrust AL-41FUs that will power both the Super Sukhoi Su-30MKIs & the FGFA. While this makes perfect sense, the problem is that the AL-41FU is nowhere in sight! Instead, the three FGFA prototypes destined for HAL starting 2015 (for avionics installation & related flight-tests) will each be powered by twin 147kN AL-41F-1A/117S turbofans whose TTSL is 4,000 flight hours, with time between overhauls (TBO) being 1,500 flight hours. The Ruskies are now saying that the AL-41FU will become available by 2018, by which time the HAL-built FGFA prototype featuring composites-built airframe structures will just begin fabrication, following which the mandatory structural fatigue-tests as well as flight-tests will have to be conducted by HAL & CEMILAC. What all this means is that the FGFA will NOT be ready for service induction until 2025 at the very least.

What has made matters further worse is the steadily deteriorating economic situation of Russia, as explained below:

No wonder the Ruskies are now terribly worried & have just become the first country to invite the ASSOCHAM to send a 17-member delegation to Moscow to take part in a conference in which India’s new economic & industrial policies will be explained threadbare to all interested ministries & industries of Russia.

2) The fault is not with the consultants. That’s because the buck ultimately stops with the IN’s CNS & Vice CNS. It is these two officials who have the final say on such matters. Therefore, those who need to be held accountable for such disastrous decisions are the then CNS of the I*N, Admiral Madhvendra Singh, & the then CMD of HSL.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SAKSHI: JV & FDI are indeed one & the same in the Indian context, because the 49% stake being approved by the Govt of India applies to those 50 or so India-registered companies that have acquired controlling stakes in foreign OEMs & who want to leverage such corporate takeovers for the sake of competing within India. For instance, if JLR has something significant to offer for the 8 x 8 Kestrel AIFV of TATA Motors, then JLR & TATA Motors will be required to form a 49/51 industrial JV that’s registered in India. Similarly, there are several Indian companies with venture capital who want to enter the project financing segment as institutional investors & that’s why the Union Ministry of Finance must soon take a call on the maximum quantum of financial investment that such India-origin but foreign-registered institutional investors can possibly make. It can range from 11^ all the way up to 35%. No foreign vendor or OEM will ever be interested in acquiring financial stakes—26%, 50% or 100%--in any Indian military-industrial venture. They never were & will never will.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Thus far, only BEL: & KELTRON have produced such hardware that was originally developed by the DRDO.

To COMMON SENSE: I had predicted this more than a month ago. The IN is dead-set against such a project since both the Barak-1 & Barak-2 can do the job. And the IA & IAF do not want radar-guided SHORADS, but IIR-guided SHORADS. Therefore, the Maitri SR-SAM is now a dead-duck, much like the Akash-2 SAM. Both the IA & IAF have agreed to forego the Akash-2 option in favour of the Barak-2, which makes perfect sense from a financial standpoint.

To RAD: That installation on the P-8I houses the APS-143 Telephonics rear-facing search radar. There’s no towed EW suite or even DIRCM required.

To RAJ SHEKHAR: Turbofan development takes more than 2 decades even in fully developed countries. The F125 turbofan developed by Honeywell is designed for drop-in installation inside the Jaguar. The Kaveri on the other hand has been designed for fitment inside the Tejas Mk1’s engine bulkhead & therefore can never fit into the Jaguar.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VISHAKH: 1) Kalyani Group has been supplying 155mm shell forgings since late 1999, as well as forgings for 155mm barrels. It does not produce 155mm shells. That is done by the OFB ‘s Badmal Plant that was originally supplied by Day & Zimmerman of the US. Private Indian companies are barred from procuring military-standard explosives & chemicals. Only OFB is authorised to do so & therefore no private Indian company can manufacture anything that contains such explosives & chemicals. 2) Not exactly. 3) They can plan for anything, but they are in for a very very rude shock since the MoD recently decided to procure the 155mm/45-cal Dhanush in large numbers & wait for the 155mm/52-cal ATAGS from the DRDO. Therefore, the Govt of India has now no longer interested in procuring 155mm/52-cal towed howitzers from anyone else.

To RD: Yes, it is final. At best, it is a second-best option, when compared to what had been offered by Canada’s Ocean Works.

To BISWAJIT & GESSLER: Ideally, such contracts for LPH construction should be awarded to those industrial consortiums that are public/private partnerships. However, for speedy construction of such warships, what is required most is an integrated shipbuilding facility that not only has a seafront, but most importantly a hinterland, like the ones possessed by Hyundai in Busan & CSSC at & off Shanghai. It’s no use having a final assembly yard in Kochi if the gearbox has to be hauled in from Khopoli! All industrial manufacturing activity should be concentrated in one geographical area, which can be designated as a defence SEZ. Presently, only L & T & Pipavav have such sprawling landbanks required for initiating such Greenfield projects.

To KAUSTAV BHATTACHARYA: The Arihant is ready for commissioning??? It is at least another 3 years away from commissioning. First the DSRVs have to arrive. Nothing else proceeds without the DSRV.

To SOORYA: All such data was uploaded in mid-2012. The follow-on to S-2, S-3 & S-4 will be the S-5 design that will house 12 SLBMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUVO: Making is not a problem at all. What matters most is the design. India today possesses only the design of the Class 209/Type 1500 SSK. DCNS has supplied only the production engineering data for the Scorpene SSKs. Likewise, for the A-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 SSBNs, the original designer was Russia’s Rubin Central Marine Engineering Design Bureau. And all the India-based manufacturers that supplied hardware for the S-2/Arihant (like valves, pipings, torpedo tubes, periscope masts etc) had to first send their products to Russia for trials & tests & only after Russia certified them were they allowed to be fitted on board. The IN’s Naval Design Bureau was only involved with the R & D work on CMS, IPMS & battle damage control system but these too had to be sent to Russia for tests & certification. And no one in India till this day knows exactly what it takes to conduct such tests & certifications in-country.

Similarly, when it comes to MCMVs & their GRP-made hulls, Italy’s Intermarine is the only one in the world that manufactures 4-inch thick GRP-built structures. And this OEM continues to supply Kangnam of South Korea with such GRP-built structures off-the-shelf. Intermarine has never taught others how to fabricate such GRP-built hull plates & nor will it share such know-hows with anyone else, be it with South Korea or India. Therefore, how Kangnam has proposed to help GSL to build such MCMVs is beyond me & this has all the hallmarks of a con job.

As for the DRDO’s AIP, it is not likely to surface for the next decade, rest assured, even as the rest of the world takes path-breaking steps ahead. Do read the comment below.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Japan has decided to power its new batch of Soryu-class SSKs with Lithium-ion batteries instead of air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology. The existing Soryu-class diesel-electric submarines (16SS) use AIP technology based on Kockums Stirling engines license-built by Kawasaki Heavy Industries, allowing them to stay submerged for long periods. The engines power Sweden’s smaller Gotland-class submarines for up to two weeks at 5 knots. The current Soryu-class SSKs are propelled by a large electric motor that has three power sources: diesel engines, the AIP engines and main storage batteries. Diesel engines, which require oxygen for combustion, power the boats on the surface or while snorkeling. The boats can snorkel for extended periods to limit their detectability while transiting submerged (only the snorkel mast is above the water) or for short periods to quickly recharge their batteries after operating underwater. The AIP engines — which burn small quantities of diesel fuel and liquid oxygen — are used for long-range underwater cruising at low speed, and to keep the batteries topped off. The batteries are used for ultra-quiet operation as well as high-speed underwater operations, which quickly depletes them. By shifting to Lithium-ion batteries, the new Soryus would retain their main propulsion diesels, but be equipped with more powerful and far lower maintenance batteries than lead-acid types widely in use. Six of 10 Soryu-class SSKs—which take about four years to build—for Japan have been completed. Japan’s Defense Agency has just requested 64.4 billion yen (US$589.5 million) to start building one new 2,900-ton Soryu submarine from April 2015, and this—and three other boats—will use Lithium-ion batteries. The twist comes with the news that the Li-ion batteries for the Soryu s are to be provided by GS Yuasa Battery, the same supplier of the problematical batteries used on Boeing’s B.787 Dreamliners, which have experienced a series of alarming and difficult-to-solve safety issues. Fires and other concerns led both Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airlines to ground fleets in January 2013, causing—for the first time since 1979—the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to ground all B.787s flying with US airlines. AIP technology, which reduces the speed of submerged submarines to just a few knots, is being increasingly seen as too slow for emerging strategic uses and that the Navy regards AIP as maintenance intensive. Improvements in batteries make this technology the better long-term bet. The Soryu-class is about one-third larger than most European subs that use AIP technology, he said, adding the increased power and energy density of the batteries would allow for longer cruise and sprint bursts of speed. The JMSDF is highly capable and risk-averse and that the decision to use the technology would actually represent a “leap forward” in submarine power and that could introduce important operational improvements. The JMSDF is giving up a secondary power generation device by removing the AIP. In exchange, it intends to enlarge and extend the current power storage devices by going from lead-acid batteries to Lithium-ion batteries, which offer much greater energy density than current lead-acid batteries. Japan will have to develop some redundant safety electronics as well to monitor the stability of each battery cell. Japan is at the forefront of large conventional submarine development. This is a niche market but one with great potential for environmental and operational reasons.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

More replies will be posted later today.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

US Navy releases video showing autonomous boats:

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

i dont what you thought about the points i raised in the last thread however with respect to this thread the 2 points are necessary to look and point into. please do give them a thought

1. the views expressed on China by the author are exactly the same as you had said earlier how is that both of you say the same thing even using the same words

2. The multiple locations of current eyeball standoff in Ladakh dont augur well for India. as US troops withdrawal nears in not so distant future this may be ploy to take pressure off Pakistan, and with Pakistan doing continuous ceasefire violations i think both nations are trying to put pressure on India to accept Pakistan position on LoC, AGPL that will allow Pakistan to fight insurgency in Balochistan and NWFP, FATA as well as accept China position on LAC. All this will ultimately negate Indias position on Siachen as well as render claim on Ladakh ineffective

3. I think China is scared of the ‘Make in India’ pitch created by our PM, if they indeed lose out on business to India and with Pakistan going nowhere with regards to internal turmoil, and India refusing to accept China Pak positions; in worst case a 2 front battle for India is well on the cards with Chinese supremo asking PLA to be ready for war all these

All above are my views anyway

4. Just heard US wants to partner India in developing the next supposedly nuke powered aircraft carrier, how true is that


Joydeep Ghosh

Sarath Kumar said...

Sir a 20,000-ton SSBN like the S-5 carrying just 12 silos seems too low. The RN Vanguard-class displaces 15,000 tons and has 15 silos, US Ohio-class at 18,000 tons has 24 silos.

What's up with this S-5 design?

RD said...

China moves another step forward-

abs said...

Hearing of unsubstantiated rumours that that the present establishment hasn't taken Pakistani ceasefire violations too kindly. And something big is being planned near the year end.
Any truth to it?


What Prasun Da says:

"...I was busy in attending seminar, I'll answer all queries tonight, rest assured". After few days again: "...very busy in ...I'll answer all pending questions tonight, rest assured".
Tarikh pe tarikh...tarikh pe tarikh dia sir ne...lekin queries ka jabab nahin dia.

DAshu said...

it seems my dream of watching a Indo-Pak war is going to get fulfilled.

Gessler said...

Prasun sir, your words on ongoing border engagements between India & Pakistan? What could this potentially escalate into? I believe that, because of the fact our response was largely unexpected by the pakis, they will definitely try to carry out a big assault after some preparation.

I feel as though we should grab some territory into Pakistan region to deliver a definitive blow.

Even if you don't have time, I suggest you reply to this query, or any other query based on this issue ASAP !!

Reddy said...

what you said may be true but what matters here is he is not doing any paid 9-5 job here to answer queries, he has to find his livelihood.

Also any word uttered here just for the sake of quick answers with out data backup or analysis is going to catch him after few years down the lane given the domain is defence industry, what is valid today may also hold true for the next 50 he has to find some data, study etc kind of things to ans anyone.

"Rest Assured" kind of things happen very often to me when some one call me and ask for some help when am energetic in the day and I will promise my friends that I will be doing something for them; BUT by the time I reached that time like 9 or 10 pm, my energies wont be the same when I assure them and I also find most of them delegating their work to me that can be very well done by them but being dishonest and lazy they claim that they do not know some of the things (in programming)..

I guess Prasun is experiencing same kind of thing here, where anyone come here, can very well google here or can go to authentic websites for information, but what people expect here is not the boring and serious data available from original source but some kind of emotional (cinematic) touch to satisfy some kind of feelings we all have.

Reddy said...

2 year jail term to those involved in the chopper scam

Reddy said...

war is costly and destructive for all but war between India and Pak is inevitable for multiple times till pak is disintegrated and can not be stayed in present form.
Pak disintegration is bound to happen in one way or other.
even we can take it for granted that pak will make all it's parts (provinces) except punjab un-inhabitable for the next 100 years when it is getting disintegrated.

when a war between pakistan and India happens, we need to foot all the bills ourselves where as for pak all 52 muslim countries will provide resources such as oil, money, tanks, fighters, missiles, ships etc as we have seen this many times.

for us we want people, for them they want land.



Don't take my words otherwise; I'm just joking and trying to entertain all. I don't have intention to hurt anyone. I understand the pain Prasun da is taking to answer all the queries asked by the visitors. Since he is giving valid answers, of course he is taking pain. By the way it is great to listen from this legend next morning.

Reddy said...

I was just saying, it is not my intention to spin the wheel here. I am just a good for nothing visitor.

Mr. RA 9 said...

Pakistan wants to have Kashmir and India will get Pakistan. India can not attack Pakistan but Pakistan can attack India. So the clue is that whenever Pakistan attacks, India shall retaliate vehemently each and every time. In this manner at any auspicious time Pakistan may get dissolved and come under India. So India should not leave any gap and should never repeat the behavior that of Prithviraj Chauhan.

Gessler said...

Prasun ji, if you don't reply within 10 hours, I will commit suicide with your name in my pocket.

Hee hee hee...

abs said...

Sadly you haven't responded to my earlier queries which are actually pending for several weeks since I first asked you of those in the previous thread :(

What do you reckon? The author appears to have missed out on the fact that Pakistan Army has ceased to become a conventional threat to India. And the new regime emboldened with 1)Pakistan's lack of conventional deterrent 2) India's check mating of Pakistan's 4th Generation Warfare doctrine with that of Balochistan 3) IA's check mating of Pak's TNW sabre rattling 4)China's Look East Policy has ensured an India which has chosen to call out Pakistan's bluffs.
What has queered the pitch for the Pakistanis is India's realisation of her strengths and therefore insistence on negotiating on it's own strengths even going to the extent of bullying the Pakistanis.
The same apparently happened with the Chinese. Though you haven't clarified much :(

abs said...

Count me in ;) :P

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS & GESSLER: Have been busy reading up an advance copy of the book Second Strike’, which will be out for sale next week. It is written by Dr Anil Anand, who is presently with India’s National Security Council Secretariat & who, while serving with the DAE, was responsible for building & testing out the S-1/Half Boat at Kalpakkam. Two-thirds of his book deals with his academic & professional careers & the rest deals with the S-1/Half Boat R & D effort.

Regarding the India-Pakistan equation, the best articulation comes from Lt Gen (Ret’d) Syed Atta Hasnain, & no one else thus far. Here’s the link:

As for the state of the Pakistan Army, it is best explained by Christine C fair at:

Pakistan Army’s Way of War:

And that, by the way, is exactly how the US & the EU view Pakistan as well.

Pakistan is today involved primarily with internal firefighting. On top of that, the US has inked the SOFA with Afghanistan, meaning there won’t be any swift withdrawal of US military forces from Afghanistan, which in turn means that the US will continue to pound Pakistan-based terrorists with UCAV strikes (five strikes being conducted in the last week alone) & will also continue to mount covert actions aimed at locating Pakistan’s WMDs. The US will continue its rapproachment with Iran while India intensifies efforts to make the Chah Bahr Port operational ASAP. India will increase its military assistance to Afghanistan because both the new President & CEO of that country are old friends of India. Therefore, India now has the moral reasons & balls required for calling all the shots as far as India-Pakistan bilateral relations go. Therefore, expect further intensifying of separatism inside Baluchistan, hottening up of the defunct-Durand Line, & growing instability within Baltistan. If India’s decision-makers are smart enough, they ought to take advantage of all this ASAP.

China has got its own internal economic worries & on top of that it now has to contend with an economically crumbling Russia. Conflict with India is the last thing that Beijing now desires. Xi Jinping is a fairly level-headed person & that’s why he never minced his words when he last month officially stated his decision to resolve the India-PRC boundary demarcation issue ASAP (in his own words). I therefore expect this issue to be resolved within the coming four years. Also to be noted is the conciliatory stance of the Tibetan diaspora. Here’s more on it:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To REDDY: So I get to have the last laugh regarding L’Affair Finmeccanica!!! From the outset I had stated that this was a simple case of fudging of paperwork for the sake of avoiding the direct offsets commitments of AgustaWestland & now this stands proven! If only AKA & Dr MMS had discretely contacted the UK’s Serious Frauds Investigation Office two years ago & asked it to investigate the issue, the truth would have emerged a long time ago. But being the classic ‘naataakarans’ that they are, AKA & MMS opted for political expediency & needless theatrics, which in the end miserably backfired.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: The design of the HSL-built vessel clearly shows a large portion of the vessel empty behind the bridge, meaning this space will be filled in by two giant X-band precision tracking radars. As for what India can or cannot export in terms of military hardware,it all boils down to having a POSITIVES List & NEGATIVES List, which details what can be exported & to which country. Presently, such a listing DOES NOT exist. Ideally, such listings ought to be in possession of the Ministry of Commerce, Ministry of Finance & the Ministry of External Affairs. Until such a listing is drawn up, no one will be able to determine what can be exported & to whom & how.


Sir, your smugness on the "L’Affair Finmeccanica" seems perplexing as it still appears the IAF has cancelled the AW-101 deal.

I've now read 5-6 articles stating the IAF will use Mi-17 V5s for VVIP transport as replacements for the AW-101s (despite you saying they were unfit for this role and why).

I have seen you a few weeks back claiming the IAF will be using the 3 already delivered AW-101s and reminaing 9 from AW for the PM and other VVIPs but this seems like nothing but fantasy.

Is it not true the Indian PM will NEVER fly in an IAF AW-101? PLEASE answer this question clealry- I am dying to know the truth and what the hell is going on. You are saying one thing but the rest of the media is saying the exact opposite and it really is impossible to see you being in the right from what I am seeing being reported.

I mean didn't the Nigerians receive an AW-101 meant for the IAF? This seems to entirely contradict all you have said on this topic.

rad said...

HI Prasun
Why did the drdo fools cancel the lahat for the arjun? Again they have issued a pompus statement that they will develop a similar missile in 3 years!!If at all they wanted some improvements it would be better to ask the Israelis to do so it as they are the designers.
Please give a write up on the special mission aircraft and the emb-145 awacs.
Is there a pic of the ship that is supposed to have Xband radars, please post it .

zubin said...

If somebody has any sense they will scrap the 'barrel firing missile' programme all together. A capability not desirable nor required in the Indian context. A combat group is a potent mix of platforms which have all capability to fire gun, missile and other arms. Bring in the MKII and build on it even further, weight reduction would be good idea for a MK III version! Improve the quality and tech of APFSDS rounds and fuzes, carryout R&D on the auto loader, armour, smooth bore barrel, indigenisation of the Fire Cont Sys etc...stop wasting time on the missile!

Reddy said...

y some people are so adamant on aw 101 n demanding prasun to say something? are you people going to punish him?? get some life u guys on the other end of keyboards..
prasun predicted that it is very natural to go for aw 101 but IAF for reasons known to them n not known to us thinks otherwise..
put it this way.. i give my child his university fee and I expect him to pay to the uni.. implicitly trusting him.. but if he spends on prostitutes or on bingo.. ???

but one thing is very certain.. finmeccanica's action amount to cheating, dishonest, unprofessional and not on the expected lines..

Ram prasad said...


Do the hydraulic and electro hydraulic actuators(for rudder, flight control..) for LCA are being produced in india? I remember after the nuclear tests, actuators(from moog) and engines delivery have been stopped by the US and drdo had only four sets and rotated the actuators between iron bird and TDs.

And recently in 2011 actuators for delivery to ADA have been lost in transit at Heathrow airport, london.

So are they still being imported or in house developed in the country?....

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To TRUTHSEEKER: If you really want to seek out the truth, then you must learn to trust the facts & state facts as well. Firstly, no end-user in India can ever approve or cancel any procurement deal. It is the MoD & Union MoF that can. So, your statement about the IAF cancelling the AW-101 deal is legally untenable & a total distortion of facts. Secondly, has anyone from the Govt of India or from the IAF ever stated so far that the AW-101 will never ever be flown by the IAF? Has anyone ever stated so far that any Indian VVIP were never again fly on board the AW-101? The IAF has had 3 VIP transportation versions of the Mi-17V-5 in service since late last year & yet why has it not been used so far to fly either the President or PM of India?

To REDDY, VMT, but it seems that this TRUTHSEEKER chap is glued to the widely prevalent Indian mindset on being ‘spoonfed’. Hence his/her inability to read the writing on the wall despite the eyes being wide open. Also, do see this no-holds-barred interview of the former IAF Chief ACM (Ret’d) S P Tyagi, which was telecast yesterday:

To RAD: Firstly, about the EMB-145I AEW & CS, some structural fatigue-induced issues have cropped up with the supports that connect the S-band AESA radar antenna to the airframe, probably due to increased buffeting while airborne at medium altitudes. That’s what has slowed down the airborne flight-testing of the two EMB-145I prototypes. Modifications can take months to be completed with Embraer’s help. Now, to the CLGM. The Lahat’s cannon-launched version was originally developed for firing from smoothbore barrels. Firing such CLGMs from rifled-bore cannons will therefore inevitably cause severe problems. Secondly, where exactly is the need for such CLGMs when MBTs will always be accompanied by LUHs or LCHs or Rudras armed with Mistral ATAMs? To me, therefore, the development of such CLGMs or off-the-shelf procurements of such CLGMs—be it from Israel or Russia—is a sheer waste of money. From that standpoint, ZUBIN is right.

To ZUBIN: Indigenisation of the TFCS, especially its optronic components, is an economic impossibility even if more than 2,000 MBTs equipped such TFCS are procured. The same applies to the so-called national project for developing a 1,500hp engine, simply because economies of scale don’t apply. Production of an indigenously developed 1,500hp diesel engine will be financially viable on an industrial scale only if more than 8,000 such engines are ordered & that too not just for MBTs, but for also heavy-duty trucks, etc. For instance, there’s a reason why Russia-built SSKs are cheaper than their Western counterparts, & that is the very same diesel engines that power the Type 877EKM & Type 636 SSKs are the very same that power Russian locomotives, i.e. engines have to be built in large numbers. Similarly, in the West, previously there was Wartsila, MTU, MAN, & SEMT Pielstick & today there’s only MAN & MTU, while in the US there’s Caterpillar. Together, these 3 OEMs are catering to the worldwide demand for diesel engines, inclusive of orders from China. So how can anyone in their right mind ever imagine India attaining self-sufficiency in the development & industrial-scale production of 1,500-hp diesel engines & that too only for MBT? Anyone who reckons India can, is simply being delusional.

To RAM PRASAD: Not only for the LCA, but also those for the ALH, LUH & LCH are all being imported.

rad said...

HI Prasun
when tanks are accompanied by helis they are always at a risk from Manpads. Was the lahat intended for the anti attack helo purpose?.
IN the dust and smoke laden atmosphere of the plains could the lahat been effective. IN What role does the Israelis use the Lahat. It seems they also encounter the same smoke and dust in their there theater.?.
Its surprising that the emb-145 awacs has structural problems as similar design seems to be flying for ages with the brazillian airforce ,what is the reason. Dont you think the boeing 767 is a better platform than the airbus for the future awacs as they have already validated the radome unlike airbus.

zubin said...

Never once said produce the diesel engine now (ref my post...though there is progress on that front too), but there is so much still to be done esp the weight, barrel, APU, sensors optronics, Active Protection measures. So what stops indigenisation of various different components through a pvt route (different companies) even to supply global demand. Point being that given 10 yrs our T-72s will come up for replacements, some even earlier. Standardisation, therefore is going to be the answer for the future. Remember R&D is not a one off thing for a particular platform. The way I see it, India is not going to import 'A' Vehicles beyond the T-90 and the BMP, not even the SP Artillery. I say that with some amount of certainty...! VMThanx for your reply.



You are stupid, no doubt.

If Indian government follows your advice, it will not develop 1500 cc diesel engine, shut down Kaveri engine program, discard LCA Tejas, buy more Israeli stuff and go broke while buying horribly costly RAFALE from France.

Finnmeccanica, the crook enterprise is now falling on Arun Jaitley's feet in Augusta helicopter case and is even ready to pay fine to close down the matter. In contrast, you wanted the reverse since the first day itself. Many more indigenous stuffs are now coming up beautifully from Indian companies, private or public, but you are stuck in heavenly qualities and efficiency of foreign maal.

Question is : are you really a complete stupid (BOGAN or MORON, opt either) or you have some personal interest in them?

DAshu said...

TRUTHSEEKER u gone mad no doubt .
he is the one who wanted to convert LCA-1 into a lift.
he is the one who wanted to use Kaveri engine in marine applications in its current form .

and If Indian government follows his advice ; be assured that india would be a much more effective and potent force .

Reddy said...

you are too emotional when confronted and when things not get done in your way and the resulted annoying comment is the manifestation of your emotional failure.
While IQ is the power to drive you, EQ is the balancing and navigational aid.

Sudipto said...

TRUTHSEEKER I imagine why u comment . . . Never listen or read . . .i hope it is not just for luring out Prasunji to speak which gives u ample text to utilize

Sudipto said...

TRUTHSEEKER I have been reading prasuns blog for last 4 Years , i found ur comment surprisingly Ugly , commenting behind ur funny PETNAME .if u really want to be a truth seeker first Get inside and then give out opinions.Earlier i may nt have liked prasuns comment as a patriotic teenager but now that i sit inside one of indias premier research labs i realise WHAT THE FUCK RESEARCH GOES ON IN INDIA

MPatel said...

If you want to know the big picture and talk about this instead of 3 bloody VIP choppers.

Vikram Guha said...


Pop quiz. What do you call a person who knows the answer & yet asks a question?

Hint : BOGAN or MORON, opt either

Abs said...

@Prasun Da
1)I remember you had remarked the post of CDS could only get created following the articulation of SDR which would in turn need a full time Defence Minister. So am I to conclude the formulation of an SDR is on the cards?
2) "Strike Corps HQ will be used only for theatre command-and-control. The armoured brigades of the Corps will be used in an autonomous manner for both massing & dispersal depending on the fluid nature of the battlespace."
This is interesting. So basically the Strike Corps HQ is being fashioned for only Command & Control. While it's elements are being used autonomously like IBG, Autonomous Armoured Brigades. If I remember correctly, this is what the Integrated Theatre Concept is.

Does the same hold true of the Artillery, because based on what I know the Indian Army is likely to use Artillery for waging simultaneous warfare along multiple fronts both at the contact level and the depth?

What comes of the Pivot Corps? Is their role only limited to the defence of the territories annexed/captured?

3)Prasunda you have numerous times remarked how the Indian Army-Indian Airforce combine has checkmated the Pakistan Army's TNW card through adoption of Pro-Active Strategy along the Western Border with Pakistan while adopting what the media defines as 'Cold Start' along the Northern Borders. Would love to know, how? Because Cholistan is not much inhabited nor is the Shakargarh Bulge, therefore leaving Pakistan Army free to drop Nukes in their own territory against Indian formations.

4)Brahma Chellaney rues the absence of any 'Offensive Defence' posture vis-a-vis China.
And this holds some merit. We have always had grand plans of like Pro=Active strategy/Cold-Start,Parallel Hyper War,etc. but such strategies are not forthcoming when it comes to China. Would love to know why this anomaly? And in case I'm wrong, would like you to explain and elaborate.

The hype NaMo's visit to the US has generated only makes me more curious. And therefore I hope without risking sounding too rude because of the voluminous set of questions and views, I would point to you the following:
Kerry has gone on record saying "We want history to remember what PM Modi did for India's development & what Mahatma Gandhi did for its freedom in same breath".

Couple this with India changing her Middle East Policy, reports of which emerged few weeks back.
And India's increasing parleys with the ASEAN countries, would mean India after long last has woken from her slumber and has chosen to embark on the path, with active US support, of occupying the strategic space that the US would empty in the Middle East and the ASEAN(Something The US wanted India to do all along, since it knew in the coming decades it would be confining itself to the Pacific).
Praveen Swami has an interesting

Would love to have the facts verified from you on my conclusion and your views. And if you could throw light on the key takeaways from the present US visit.

Read somewhere Obama would offer India "$500 Bn in investments" along with the carrot of helping India become a "$10 Trillion Economy". Anyhow I await your response

Reddy said...

Thanks for bringing the news from rediff blog.
First of all the author has no credentials in Delhi Circuit and some of his articles are seemed to be paid ones..

Take Home Points:

1. He brought us the news of CASA-1000.
2. He reminded Indian Govt to act

Counter Args:

1. Should we think Indian Govt relies on him for the CASA-1000 kind of news?
2. Do we expect Indian Govt is not active under NSA/RAW/External Affairs etc?




Reddy said...

Some annoyingly wrong analysis:
(unless it is to be written like that as per the instructions from Paki Delhi Embassy)
"Ghani has excellent equations with Pakistan but an Afghan consensus is necessary for promoting a settlement involving Pakistan and the Taliban"


"Delhi doesn’t seem to comprehend that there is no more any “great game” vis-a-vis Pakistan to be played in the Hindu Kush."


"The Americans have simply changed the rules of the game and the remaining choice for Delhi now would be to play the game in the Hindu Kush and the Central Asian steppes with Pakistan as team mate."
QS: HE DECLARED INDIA AS A BANANA REPUBLIC and India must be shameful to produce him

"The American hope was that Delhi would intellectually grasp the seamless advantages in playing the new game and dovetail it with its much-touted ‘development agenda’ — normalization with Pakistan, "

"On its part, Pakistan too will need a lot of cajoling and persuasion to agree to provide any form of access for India to the Central Asian region."

"I often wonder why India has lost the plot. "

I have good faith in Modi and NSA and especially I have faith in them they are better than UPA in some aspects..

Dariaus said...

Wow sir!! That interview with the former Air Chief was EYE OPENING!! Something crazy and very sinister has gone on here and It is going to take a really smart and informed journalist to unravel it all but it truly seems as though the IAF and ex cheif are in the clear.

I was almost brought to tears that the system has let down a man who has given his entire working life to the nation and left him out in the cold. We as Indians should be ashamed that we were more willing to believe some foreign court then listen to reason and trust the word of an Indian. I feel the previous MoD/GoI with Antony have utterly failed this man and chosen to protect himself over the IAF's integrity.

Sir please do a blog article on this case and shed some light on it (i know you've done similar things in the past on this topic) now that the Italian court has made its findings known.

Sir, I do wonder however where the was foreword is now? Do the IAF look to sell their 3 AW-101s to some foreign air force? Maybe the Nigerian would be interested? Or do the IAF resume their deal with with AW and have the remaining 9 AW-101s delivered and the AW-101 used for its intended purpose in India. It would seem the writing is on the wall for the latter but I wonder if we would be so fortunate enough to see this become a reality.

Will we REALLY see the Indian PM/President flying on IAF AW-101s soon?

Anonymous said...

Looks like DFI is leaking .
Your rant is a verbatim copypasta of those morons there who go on about how desi maaal is superior to everything else . When you are confronted with some facts have a meltdown . Truth is bitter ..

Anonymous said...

Has anyone looked into this?

Seems the Naval LUH has been moved to Buy and Make cat. and no. increased from 56 to 100 helicopters..
If its true the question is will this project succeed. Is it possible to merge the army/IAF LUH program for 197 helicopters

joydeep ghosh said...

Prasun da

The latest issue of 'the week' magazine has a cover story 'Hijack in the Hindu Kush' has declassified documents that say how Ronald Reagon scuttled Rajiv Gandhi effort to bring peace in Afghanistan.

Rajiv Gandhi wanted to bring in exiled king Zaheer Shah to bring peace in Afghanistan, after discussing possibilities with Ronald Reagon, but suddenly Ronald Reagon changed sides & let Gulbudin Hikmateyar call the shots. this basically thrust Afghanistan in to further chaos.

If Rajiv Gandhi had brought in exiled king Zaheer Shah may be history would have been different

However in reply to #GESSLER & #ABS you have painted a sort of rosy picture where India will become the pivot of restoration of peace in Afghanistan and help in rapprochement of Iran.

But do you really believe even as global scenarios have changed since, India can still trust USA that this time it wont go back and leave India high and dry.

Considering the fact that Pak-China have done their best to coerce India into accepting their views, i think India should adopt 'doodh ka jala chaas phuk ke pita hai' stance to save itself

Your views please


Joydeep Ghosh

Anonymous said...

@Joydeep Ghosh,

Pray tell me how india can become a pivot in afghanistan? Does it have a border with it? Stop living in a fools paradise. India only had breathing space because ISAF allowed it to and was foolish enough to provide billions in aid to afghanistan to become a player. Unfortunately others control the game and can change it at will.

USA is tying up not just afghanistan but the whole of central asia.

Reddy said...

for the last decade internet pakis constant bashing theme was on child malnutrition, sanitation and slums.

Now India managed to reduce and continue to reduce malnutrition.

As Modi focused on sanitation we can hear good news in the next decade that sanitation in the country has improved

And regarding slums as education improves people will find ways to improve lives. As people from rural areas and people depending on physical jobs continue to struggle in the coming 2 decades and coming to cities to find lively hood it is state and central govt duty to find some meaningful ways to provide them decent living spaces.

Western Media has been critical to ISRO and now they can find the reason (ofcourse it knows very well all these years) what ISRO and science and technology has provided to the country..we escaped cyclone with minimal loss of life and people and Govts wer able to plan accordingly to minimise loss of life and to property.

Hamilton said...


There was news the DAC had approved a purchase of a few hundred TATA LAMVs some weeks back- any credibility to these reports?

Anonymous said...

There is a rumor floating around that single crystal blades for turbine engines has been developed by DMRL .
Assuming that this is true is this the only thing holding the kaveri engine back . If this technology is indeed mastered can we see India be self sufficient in engines ?

Reddy said...

Indian Govts for the last 2 decades has been trying to build/ promising to build Chip Industry.

Meanwhile in China

Haryvanam Kiran said...


Looks like this Government has been a regular to your site and taking necessary actions slowly but steadily..


Reddy said...

Dear Prasun,
I have seen the Navy ships berthed in Vizag during Cyclone. Is it normal? or is it wise to move them to safe ports in such cyclones as we are able to predict cyclones more precisely now?

Also I have read how complex these weather and cyclonic predictions can be.. (following is just for the sake of readers)
1. the data collection using weather radars, dedicated weather satellites, commercial planes, weather Balloons, Navy Ships etc
2. processing data using complex prediction algorithms involving most sophisticated branches of maths and statistics for simulation
3.huge computing power to run these algorithms normally done by super computers..

I hope and Guess India is in right direction regarding these and is catching up with west or may be on par..

ISRO weather satellites, and ISRO's association with France and US (?) to collect weather data, India's Doppler Radars, commercial planes dumping weather data on landing (I never heard they do for India, but London Heathrow certainly gets dumped data from commercial planes coming from all over the world), and I remember one of the India's super computer is allocated to Met. Also I didn't hear about our Maths and Stats simulation algorithms program, which I hope is, we have such tech centres.


joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

a real good news just heard

UN rejects Pak's bid for international intervention on Kashmir - says resolve differences through dialogue

also in the article 'Hijack in Hindu Kush' there is reference to crash of gen. Zia plane and a arms depot blast, can you shed some light on them


Joydeep Ghosh

Siddharth said...

Prasun da,

Mr. Mani Shankar Aiyar has said something on NDTV about recent development with Pakistan.

What is your view - is his view really has some stand.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

rad said...

hi prasun
why is sivathnau pillai shooting his mouth off by saying we are developing a mach 25 hyper plane!!!. WE have not mastered ramjet tech and he is boasting of some science fiction dream that he must have had after retiring!!!

rad said...

HI Prasun
What again is the main problem with sukhois , FBW or the engines , russian engines are famousfor flaming out. Very depressing, will super sukhoi get a better engine?.

NRam of the HINDU Paper is one of these pseudo secularist
that roam south india .He is one off those self appointed saviours. He is married to a muslim woman if a i am right .His column was always critical of nationalism and hindu religion . He is basically a leftist with communist idelogies.

Reddy said...

please check for the Indian Media facts, "who owns what in Indian Media".

You will be really surprised.

I guess I read that in newslaundry or some similar source, please google it.

when you find these facts, who has shares in media, their personal life, political and business association, foreign connections and how business oriented it has become, you will stop reading Indian Print news and stop watching TV.
If you find any good source please let us know.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

First installment of damning revelations from Admiral (Ret’d) D K Joshi:

Looks like the only honourable way left for AKA is to now commit hara-kiri!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS, DASHU, RAD & REDDY: The entire issue regarding Pakistan & the big picture has to be contextualised in order to understand the ground situation & what are India’s future options—something the so-called Delhi-based think-tanks & spin–doctors appearing on various TV talk-shows are incapable of.

Firstly, since 1947, Pakistan had a valid reason for EXPECTING J & K to become its part, based on the methodology adopted by the colonial Brits to enact the subcontinent’s partition. However, Pakistan jumped the gun & shot itself on its foot when it mobilised its Pathan, Pashtu & Hazara tribes to militarily conquer the princely state of J & K. When India approached the UN for a ceasefire, the UN formally accepted the legality of J & K’s Instrument of Accession—meaning if Pakistan really desired that the people of J & K would have the final say in determining J & K’s future political status, then Pakistan would first have to militarily withdraw from POK, Gilgit & Baltistan & India’s military forces would then enter these areas & only 6 months after that would efforts be made to organise a form of political self-determination exercise. Nowhere is the term Plebicite used in any UN resolution concerning J & K. When Pakistan refused to vacate the occupied areas by 1963, Article 370 was introduced by India. From then till 1989, the two all-out wars waged against India in 1965 & 1971 saw Pakistan losing further ground, especially in Baltistan (including the loss of the Saltoro Ridges along the Siachen Glacier in 1984). This made the PA’s Force Command Northern Areas (FCNA) look like the theatre command that lost the maximum amount of territory to India through war. The proxy insurgencies waged since 1989 have so far failed to dramatically alter the demographic profile of J & K. On top of that, although Pakistan claims that it only wants to uphold the right to self-determination of the citizens of J & K, reality is that this is far from true, since A) its APHC proxy has no member hailing from either the Hindu Pandit community or the Buddhist Ladakhis. B) it has sponsored widespread communal violence against minority communities inside J & K since 1989. C) it now openly states that it wants to covet J & K in order to secure its sources of water supplies. In other words, no one takes Pakistan’s POV regarding J & K seriously simply because Pakistan has consistently changed its narrative on the issue & consequently Pakistan does not have any coherent policy regarding J & K. Naturally, therefore, the world at large believes that Pakistan does not need J & K for securing itself either territorially or militarily & therefore it is only ‘greed & envy’ that drives Pakistan to dream about coveting J & K. Worst of all, even Pakistani decision-makers have recently admitted that it has absolutely no contract with the younger generation of J & K residents, & that the APHC is a defunct & ineffectual outfit. This then brings us to the present-day situation, which is that while Pakistan wants to negotiate with India the prospects for implementing the UN resolutions (since it regards J & K as disputed territory), India has considerably hardened her stand, especially after mid-1999 & November 2008, & today insists that the only issue left for negotiations is the dismantlement of India-specific terrorist training camps inside Pakistan. And Islamabad cannot reject this because President/General Pervez Musharraf himself had promised to dismantle them on January 8, 2004. Former Foreign Secretaries of Pakistan are now denouncing this undertaking by Musharraf as being disastrous & self-defeating, just as they are loathe to acknowledge the 1972 Shimla Agreement.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Now to the wider causes, proximate causes and local causes of ceasefire violations along the WB. The International Border (IB) between India & Pakistan spans 2,175km. The Working Boundary (WB) spans 202km, the Line of Control (LoC) spans 797km, and the Line of Actual Contact (LAC)—which India calls the AGPL— from map-grid reference NJ-9842 till Indra Kol—spans 108km. The LoC runs from a place called Sangam close to Chhamb all the way up north to NJ-9842 in Ladakh, following which the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL) takes over. The WB lies in Jammu Division between Boundary Pillar 19 and Sangam i.e. between Jammu and Sialkot), which was part of the erstwhile princely state of J & K. It is this stretch that is known in India as the International Boundary (IB), while Pakistan refers to it as the WB, since it maintains that the border agreement (the so-called standstill agreement) was inked between the princely state of Jammu & Kashmir( J & K) and Pakistan, and not between India & Pakistan. Given the fact that India maintains a near-foolproof anti-infiltration grid along the LoC, Pakistan has since mid-2013 focussed its terrorist infiltration efforts along the WB. That’s why since June 2014, the MoD has authosied the BSF to put into effect its ‘escalation dominance’ tactics under the ‘controlled & calibrated violence’ strategy, starting June 2014—meaning if Pakistan Rangers fires with 7.62mm rifles, then the BSF will retaliate with 12.7mm HMGs. If Pakistan Rangers fires with 14.7mm HMGs, then the BSF will retaliate with 81mm mortars. This is exactly what has happened over the past 3 months. So far 18,000 villagers in India have been displaced, while 20,000 Pakistani villagers have been displaced. Firings have so far been limited to two sectors (Charwa [12 villages] and Chapraar [one village]) spread along a 45km-long lateral frontage between Sialkot/Kasur and Poonch/Rawalkot straddling the WB. A total of some 31,000 rounds of 81mm air-burst mortar rounds were fired by both sides over a 10-day period since the past 3 weeks. Only burst rounds, not blast rounds, were fired.

In 1998, there were 5,153 ceasefire violations, while in 1999 there were 2,896 violations prior to May 1999. In 2011, there were 86 firing violations along the WB and LoC; 230 in 2012; 414 in 2013 (India says that there were 199 ceasefire violations along the Loc and 148 along the WB); and 50 along the WB alone between January 2014 and now, plus 175 along the LoC. There were 275 infiltration bids in 2013, and 95 infiltrators are estimated to have entered J & K. The PA, however, is most unlikely to attempt any form of escalation along either the LoC or the WB since it presently has a deployment ratio of 54.6%, resting & re-equipping ratio is 12.7%, & the remaining 33% undergoing the training cycle. This trend will continue for at least another 36 months, since the defunct Durand Line too will become active from mid-2015, since no self-respecting Afghan President & CEO (both of whom have extremely cordial relations with India since the late 1990s) will ever agree to make the Durand Line the permanent boundary between Afghanistan & Pakistan.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

What therefore are India’s choices for the future? Should India undertake hectic efforts to re-equip & re-configure its ground forces for undertaking highland warfare so that Baltistan can be militarily captured by 2017? Won’t this in turn enable India to gain physical access to the strategic Wakhan Corridor, which in turn will physically connect India with Central Asia? What kind of geo-political & geo-economic alignments should India undertake with China, Russia, Afghanistan & Iran in order to achieve such objectives? What can Iran & India do in the near-term to operationalise the Chah Bahr Port in southeastern Iran so that Afghanistan can commence exporting its natural minerals & thereby attain a degree of economic self-sufficiency? Will China & India agree to make this a focal point of the proposed maritime silk route, for starters? Will China & India both agree to jointly develop land transportation infrastructure through the Wakhan Corridor for their mutual benefit?

PS: Don’t get carried away by stereotype terms like Mountain Strike Corps (MSC). Firstly, the XVII Corps is neither HQed in the mountains nor are its fighting formations located along mountainous terrain. They are all plains-based & are therefore ‘swing-role’ formations that will be usable along different types of terrain, i.e. over the highlands of Sikkim & the North East, as well as the highlands of Baltistan, that is, if they are provided with adequate strategic & tactical air-mobility by the IAF.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: 1st Su-30MKI crashed on April 30, 2009 at Pokhran near Jaisalmer district in Rajasthan. The aircraft was flown by Wing Commanders Siddharth V Munje and Pushpendra Singh Nara. The Court of Inquiry (CoI) found that the pilot, Wing Commander Munje, inadvertently switched-off the four switches that control the power-supply to the digital flight-control computer. Switching-off the power not only cuts off the power-supply to the flight-control computer, but is also irreversible. Switching them on does not ‘power on’ the all-important unit. The aircraft went into a forward bunt, lost control and crashed. During the flight, the aircraft is said to have experienced a technical glitch after a round of firing practice. The pilot, who was also under routine inspection by the DASI, is said to have then tried to switch-off the armament master switches, which are located just behind the pilot’s seat and in close proximity to the switches that control power to the flight-control computer. Though the CoI’s conclusion was that the crash occurred due to pilot error, a number of officials questioned the placing of critical switches that are not to be used during flight and only for power-on when the aircraft is on the ground in the cockpit and also, the inadequate built-in safety mechanisms like a wire-lock or even a covering flap. It is unpardonable and a poor design to have such critical switches, which are not to be used by the pilot in such an accessible manner. The IAF should have insisted on design changes way back in 1998 itself when the ASTE’s experimental test-pilots were evaluating this aircraft-type. The probe also revealed that the ejection seat’s harness had broken, leading to the death of Wing Commander Nara. The reason for the breaking has been attributed to material failure of the harness due to exposure to the sun.

2nd Su-30MKI crashed on November 30, 2009 near the Indian Army’s Chandan firing range in Jaisalmer district, south-west of the Pokhran range, after it took off from Jodhpur at 16.45 Hours for a routine training sortie and it crashed around 17.30 Hours. Reason for this crash was the same as that of the first crash.

3rd Su-30MKI crashed on December 13, 2011 after taking off from Lohegaon air base at 1245 hours. It crashed at 1310 hours. This was due to malfunctioning FADEC.

4th Su-30MKI crashed on February 19, 2013 at about 1920 Hours. The aircraft was on a night flying training mission from Jodhpur. Wing Commander Gaurav Bikram Singh Chauhan & Squadron Leader A.R. Tamta. During the practice bombing sortie, the fuze of one of OFB-built 13 x 100kg fre-frag OFAB-100 bombs malfunctioned, probably due to a manufacturing defect.

5th Su-30MKI crashed at a village near Pune on the evening of October 15, 2014, with both the pilots (Wing Commander Sidharth Vishwas Munje & Flying Officer Anup Kumar) ejecting to safety. The aircraft was on a routine training mission from the IAF Pune airbase. It crashed while coming in for landing at a distance of approximately 22km from the Pune airfield. Again, suspected FADEC failure.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SIDDHARTH: My explanations above on the India-Pakistan equation should answer your query as well, I hope.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

1. I still havent got any views from your side regarding the points raised by me regarding the article 'Hijack in Hindu Kush'

2. The crash pic of Su30 shows largely intact jet with probably slight damage to belly, meaning it was a controlled landing/crash but what concerns is the name of same pilot in 1st and 5th crash

3. Will China agree for India to access Central Asia through Wakhan corridor as doing so will virtually negete China claim on Trans Karakoram tract/Saksgam valley unless India retakes Baltistan

your views please

Joydeep Ghosh

RD said...

Another chopper deal cancelled recently in favour of indigenous one. Is naval dhruv accepted by navy for shipborne operation to replace chetaks. Else it will further delay the acquisition as a new chopper with new design,development,certifications will take a quite a few time. And this utility helicopters is required in every naval vessels atleast for emergency transport & reconnaisance leaving alone the ASW or ASuW capabilities.

Meanwhile an interesting development-

rad said...

Thanks for the detailed reasons for the crashes of the sukhois You mentioned fadec malfunction , when such things happen in India it should happen in russia too and they should have taken corrective measures and tell us of the same , i suspect they have kept quite.Again similar things should have happened in malaysia ,china , algeria,Indonesia etc .
You had also mentioned that the LCA would have the Selex aesa , but now it seems that elta is collaborating with us to give its AESA 2052 radar.true?. I think it will be again more of a screw driver tech transfer. Coming to the IRST , can the litening pod be used as an IRST as it has the same function .It will be easier to integrate the radar and the pod as they are both Israeli. Morover i doubt whether there will be space in the radome to mount a dedicated IRST.Please comment. Whats you r view of the boeing 767 being a better platform for our desi awacs.

Sandesh said...


What is the status of HAL-IL MTA so far? I was wondering whether its 20 ton capacity is useful today when minimum 30-35 ton airlift is required with growing weight of combat vehicles.

Moreover, if India inducts more C-130Js as air chief mentioned then what will be the future of HAL MTA?

Reddy said...

How much money does India need to spend on this project (merging Baltistan) each year and how many dedicated years it takes to achieve this in your estimate?

Ofcourse we (readers) are aware that it is not only money that is needed for this but Huge Will Power, Real Politik, Hard Diplomacy, Technology, Intelligence, Armed Forces, Media, etc...
If it happens it will bring enormous changes to the South Asia and Central Asia.
On the other hand isn't easy to cut the tree from other side, collapsing the pakistan economically, the cold war way??? it seems much easy and attainable..

Mr. RA 9 said...

Pakistan666 has already gone critical and has reached in to the Auto Collapse mode by itself. Now India has to do only to perform some rituals like building our own economy, alertness and defense preparedness more and more stronger and never forget to send the best wishes to Pakistan at every Dipawali, Dussehra, Holi, Id, Bakreed and X-mas etc.

Gessler said...

Prasun ji, I can't tell you how thankful I am for your insights into the Kashmir & Gilgit-Baltistan issue. However a scallywag like me can never have enough answers, so here goes -

1) So which of the options about Gilgit-Baltistan is India gonna take up? Do you in your honest opinion believe that the present GoI under Narendra Modi will have the balls & vision to see this through so that Pakistan is wasted?

2) Recent reports say the Rs. 6,000 crores deal for minesweepers from South Korea's Kangnam is on the verge of cancellation, thanks to the emergence of middlemen & other corruption bullshit.

If at all this deal goes down the drain, whatever maybe the reasons, what could be the alternative?

Please tell me that someone will get the idea to build minesweepers here in India in a Joint Venture between Italy's Intermarine and a private local shipyard like Pipavav or L&T Kattupalli.

If the Koreans can get a deal off Intermarine, so can we, right?

3) Any progress on Tejas Mk-2?

4) And BrahMos-II ?

5) Your take on the development of ground-based Gas Dynamic Laser (GDL) in India by LASTEC and other agencies? Could this tech be expanded in future to include ship-based anti-missile defences?

6) Is it verified that the Barak-8 SAM has a lateral acceleration of 80g ? That's simply awesome if confirmed.

Anonymous said...

mk2 (tejas, brahmos) are not DHL couriers to log a trxn every few hours.

Amit said...

can crashed su30 be salvaged ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) To cut a long story short, Pakistan had since the mid-1970s been giving asylum to several radical Afghan students like the late Ahmed Shah Massoud & several other Afghan political dissidents in order to offset gains by Afghanistan in terms of supporting Baloch separatists holed up at that time in Afghanistan’s Lashkargan & Argangadh provinces. Between 1979 & 1984, Pakistan then under Gen Zia ul Haq singlehandedly began actively supporting the Afghan Mujahideens against the Soviet military forces & the Afghan National Army/Air Force. From late 1984 until 1989 the US, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria & most of the GCC member-states funded the Afghan Mujahideen’s Jihad inside Afghanistan & for this purpose, two facilities were created inside Pakistan: the Ojhari Ammunition Depot for stockpiling arms & ammo for the Mijahideden; & the Bank of Credit & Commerce International (BCCI) for receiving & channeling the financial resources pouring in from the Arabs to finance the Jihad. When the Soviets reluctantly agreed in late 1987 to a speedy military withdrawal from Afghanistan by 1989, they had by then also decided to exact their pound of flesh & this was publicly stated then by the then Soviet negotiator in Geneva, Yuri Vorontsov. Consequently, the revenge was taken in 2 ways: by assassinating Gen Zia & by blowing up the Ojhari Ammo Depot. Both these operations were orchestrated by the KGB & were carried out by Afghanistan’s then KHAD intelligence service with the help of disgruntled Shia military personnel then serving with the PAF. These folks were disgruntled due to the persecution of the Shia communities within Pakistan since the early 1980s—this being the consequence of the then on-going Iran-Iraq war when the Saudis & Iranians were waging a proxy war inside Pakistan. However, till this day, Pakistan does not want to admit this & instead—probably falling victim to US disinformartion—continue to insist that these two acts wewre perpetrated by a joint team of MASSAD & R & AW. India was in the know of all this because since the mid-1980s, India & France were working together to build bridges with the Tajik Mujahideen led by Ahmed Shah Massoud & between 1986 & 1989 the Delhi-based AIIMS provided free medical treatment to several such Tajiks, who were smuggled out of Afghanistan & flown out to Iran & then to India. But that’s all what India could do at that time & Rajiv Gandhi was probably engaging in ‘Zaroorat se Ziada Thekedaari’ by trying to mediate between the US & Soviets, hence the US got totally pissed off with him. 3) It all depends on what all each of the two parties can give-and-take. India does not require the Shaksgam Valley for either strategic or tactical reasons & can therefore live comfortably without this tract of land.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RD: Not for any indigenous option, because the RFI has been floated globally. The Dhruv ALH’s naval version cannot qualify since it has neither been weaponised, nor does it host on-board sensors like search-and-track radar, acoustic signals processor, MAD boom, or dunking sonar. Therefore, imported options are once again being considered, albeit with tricycle landing gear insyead of skids like what’s on board the Bell 429.

To RAD: Corrective measures for foreign-origin combat aircraft take a long time to reach fruition, especially if the aircraft is of Russian origin because the Russians never designed such aircraft primarily for export. They were therefore optimised for operating as per Soviet/Russian military doctrines & tactics. Aircraft like Su-30MKI therefore start feeling the heat once the annual flying hours logged in exceeds 120 & all types of technical malfunctions will take place. In contrast, Western combat aircraft are developed for operating from various types of theatres & are therefore far more versatile. However, the quadruplex FBW-FCS is not to blame, that’s for sure & anyone claiming the FBW-FCS to be faulty is obviously an IDIOT since the recovered South Africa-origin digital flight data recorder of the Su-30MKI can be processed & analysed ONLY in the UK. No one in India can do this job.

To REDDY: Not more than US$50 million, at most. And that too this amount should be used for giving voice to the oppressed Shia populace of Baltistan & empowering them to speak up against Pakistan.

To AMIT: Are you kidding? It is a total writeoff.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: According to data from Pakistan rangers, the heaviest firing by BSF were recorded on:

October 6, 2014: 51,290 small arms rounds fired & 3,316 81mm mortar rounds fired.

October 7, 2014: 37,610 rounds fired & 4,104 81mm mortar rounds fired.

October 8, 2014: 56,485 rounds fired & 6,700 81mm mortar rounds fired.

Will answer all your other queries later today.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD & GESSLER: Do browse through the following:

IAI’s Topgun GPS guidance kit:


ROKAR’s Silver Bullet GPS guidance kit:

IMI’s Fastlight:

IMI’s GMM-120:

Bell V280 Valor Tilt Rotor Aircraft:

sangaioinam said...

A low level zoomed in article on Chinese and NE India & AP for those intersted

SS said...


If the aircraft in the image is the actual aircraft from recent crash then most of its electronics, air frame are not effected by the crash. They can be reused as spare parts for other planes right? VMT

Biswajit said...

Hi Prasun,
Can u tell is there any R&D related work going on for Lithium-sulfur battery or Lithium–air battery? As these r next imp. battery technology for d future esp. Lithium-air.
What u think does this GoI will buckle underpressure from China for construction of roads in Arunachal Pradesh or will it forge ahead to complete d road?
Thnks in advance.

Reddy said...

we can see how fast hindu is they showed akash as nirbhay, even they seem to have no image policy....once news papers used to be a source of knowledge.. now? mis-information, paid news, propaganda....

Anonymous said...

Indian have been hoping (dreaming) for pakistan to break up for the last 67+ yrs. Is it going to happen? Not likely, especially under indian pressure. If you are a student of history, especially their's, afghanistan's and central asia.

They do not know the meaning of defeat. You can punch them into the ground and they will still come at you. You see this in their people everywhere. They also have one other trait, they help each other out, even when they know they will get a beating. This they do without planning, thinking. Its inbuilt.

How do you get them? I have always believed that the cheapest and best option is, you befriend them. If India befriends them, then you end up owning everything there. India needs to try the EU option. Look at what EU has achieved, just by befriending the eastern bloc nations. Look at the relative narrative's of russia and EU. Who wins everytime, strategically?

India has to rise above pride, ownership and being tough. Because on these three points it cannot compete with pakistan. So make them irrelevant. Instead of celebrating a missile test firing, you may then celebrate the new bullet train from kolkhata to kabul.

I expect this to be deleted on this chest thumping site, but one must try.

Anonymous said...

You have it the other way around it is when India tries to befriend Pakistan that they(Pakistan) keeps "coming at India" . India broke up Pakistan once already or is your memory so short . Right now Pakistan is ripping itself apart with little input from India (so much for Pakistanis helping each other) . There is little return on investing in any friendship with Pakistan as has been demonstrated by the Pakistani leadership over and over again . Insulating and strengthening the nation against them is the best option .

Anonymous said...

PS :India is working towards the EU option with SAARC only without Pakistan .Nobody wants to be integrated in any way with a poisonous "chest thumping" nation of morons .

Pankaj said...

Dear Sir

It was told by BSF officials that
Pakis are firing 120 MM mortars

So why did not India do the same
Why did India fire only 81 mm Mortars

Secondly why only Mortars

Why NOT Artillery let us ESCALATE

Pankaj said...

Dear Sir

Pakis have been BADLY rattled by Indian Response EVEN IF it was ONLY mortars

The Paki Talk shows are showing that
they have now understood that MODI will hit hard

Now this is the really SAD Part because what this means that INSPITE of Grave provocations LAST YEAR
1 Beheading of soldiers in January
2 5 Indian soldiers killed in August the Man mohan singh Govt
DID not give a free hand

What has been done now COULD have been done earlier also

UPA / MMS should be ASKED to give

What the previous Govt did was

Pankaj said...

To the ANONYMOUS at 3:53 PM
who is preaching love friendship
and Bullet trains between India and Pakistan

A BUDDHIST Monk from Burma has said this

" Your heart can be full of Love and Kindness but you cannot sleep next to a MAD DOG

That is applicable for Pakis also
They will ALWAYS be inimical towards India

Even if we give them Kashmir on a platter they will demand DELHI next It is just in their DNA

Kittu said...

@anon October 17, 2014 at 3:53 PM
you are a funny c**t, nice.
you presented yourself as a super race or separate race.
you are genetically Indian and your forefathers (probably your father itself) are proper Indians, so your usual logic is nullified.

and with (islamic) conversion did you achieve anything? YES, moronic mind sets and destructive thinking..
you don't need anyone.. this islamic mind set is enough to lead you towards the .... path.

also you said as if, your nation and race has 1000s of years of history.

your forefathers unable to with stand the islamic invasion converted to islam to protect themselves, so your very first step from hinduism to islam started on a wrong foot but the conversion was successful.
the name paki itself speaks volumes about the pseudo race and pseudo nation. I guess your nation hardly celebrates a century..

Kittu said...

Indian famous institutes such as IIMs, IITs, ISB etc contribute very little back to the scientific pool to the country (to India's public R&D and nil to private R&D as private INCs has little interest in R&D). This is evident in recent research/survey.

Prasun, you were saying so many times Israel has some 5000 PhDs in GSM technologies itself.

Is it not a good idea to have dedicated world class teaching and training institutes just with in DRDO and ISRO sites?

I wish Indian Govt should identify some 12-15 topics (GSM, Robotics, Chip, Nano, Microelectronics etc) and should establish such centers just for DRDO and ISRO purposes.
Students should be taken through an exam in 10th std or 12th and should provide dedicated education for 10 years (BTECH, MTECH, PHD, POSTDOC) and in TEN years DRDO and ISRO have all the talent needed with in the country.

Abs said...

1. I don't think India will do as you said Prasun Da. The Indian MEA has been consistently telling Pakistan that Kashmir issue solution would be based upon the Simla Agreement.
2. India can go ahead with the costly and risky option of wresting G&B by doing a Cold Start in that theatre only if Pakistan becomes adamant and obsessed with entire Kashmir.
Something the civilian leadership realises is not possible. And therefore it has begun referring to G&B as their 5th province without much Indian protests too. And Musharraf's 4 point plan also points to this end where the existing LoC would become international border. Something the PA appears to want which is why when confronted with ceasefire violations the Pak MEA spokesperson raised the lack of progress on the Siachen demilitarisation issue.
3. China could always act as the intermediator and provide India with concessions from Pak like access to CAR once the border issue is solved.
4. Of course all this assumea Pakistan Army has seen the writing on the wall and decided to once and for all drop its Kashmir obsession or desire to inflict death by thousand cuts. 5.Therefore IMO India would only use the Balochistan front as a tool to checkmate Pak's proxy war before the boundary issue is solved.
6. In any case doing a cold start in G&B and capturing the Shakargarh Bulge would definitely cross Pak's nuke redline. Something even NaMo would be wary of.
7.Much also depends on Chinese relations with Pakistan vis-a-vis India. And I feel India needs to formulate an offensive defence doctrine against China that ensures Deterrence and upon failing guarantees victory. Only then can India garner the kind of concessions it wants from China as it would expedite border settlement and create grounds for Indo-Sino partnership.
8. Considering India tries and do what you said, why would China not favour Pakistan?

Quite a few number of doubts and counter questions

Abs said...

^ BTW the PM's address to the combined commanders meet clearly outlining that full scale wars would be rare and future wars would be short seems to point to much needed defence management reforms.
Likewise is the asking of all services to prepare for jointness from the lowest of levela to the top most. Could you explain to us about the broad underpinnings wrt defence management behind these articulations?

Anonymous said...


given the billion and half population, India can generate million MTechs, Ph. D and Post Docs, that is sheer statistics. But here the problem is with what these people do after such higher studies. Till MTech it is fine. But a Ph. D takes close to 5 or more years. And a post Doctoral will take many more. Now after investing a major part of the prime youth, what is there on offer.
Even now the major employer of R&D in what so ever form is the Government. And the number of vacancies propping up in the government is only reducing. For Ph. D the government is offering a measly Rs 16000, and post doctorals it is offering Rs 22000 as fellowships on a small time basis. Where as a similar person in other Industries (or even a panwala) would be earning double or more than that (the former with an average CTC least 5 lakhs). The only job with respectable income at that level comes from the developed countries, hence you see the brain drain. Even those who are accepted in employment in government finds it as a training ground for a leisurely life. NaMo has said that a few of the R&D centres of DRDO should be having young scientists as directors. I guess it will stay as only a speech.
Those who are in R&D in India (govt sector) are two types, one, who are really interested in the job and is ready to work at any salary (with an unimpressive social life) and dedicate life to research and then two, who fake that they are doing something and act as parasite to the system. Unfortunately the latter outnumber 10:1. Very few if any, save for ISRO, has any serious research and with certain pride.
Do you know the sheer volume of experts (MTech/MS, Doctorals, PostDoctorals with decades of experience) willing to come back to India if offered suitable living standards or a work place? it alone is sufficient for filling 100s of institutions. The only problem, no one here is serious about any research or cultivating talent. We shamelessly buy the technology from abroad (some may even have contribution of the ex-Indians!). I laugh when it says no Indian universities in top 500 (seriously we should look in the bottom 500 :) ), our students and faculty would be there in the top 10 universities itself, but in the West.
You can make n number of universities but that without a culture of R&D would be the breeding ground for n power n donkeys (not disrespecting the donkeys, but they tend to do only what is told to)

Jayesh Meledeth.

Kittu said...

you just repeated what's happening now.
what I said was what to do about it and you didn't understand what I was talking abt.
"India can generate million MTechs, Ph. D and Post Docs" ???? really?
you are funny..

we need quality in our phds not useless numbers
AGAIN, U got it wrong in understanding it. go away..

Anonymous said...


an idea is better countered by another, and not arrogance. I do understand very well what i am speaking about. I told 'India can make millions of Mtechs, Ph. D, Postdoc' ...and that "is sheer statistics from a population of a billion" (and the stats is Israel with population of 9 million can generate 5000 Ph. D holders in GSM, see how many can be generated by 130 times more population!!!)...ofcourse i am sure you missed the pun part of it.
to the second part, why do you think opening few niche institutions would solve the inherent problem of lacking an R&D culture. It would just create more post grads, of the same quality as of now. And I am just repeating, it is not the lack of talent which is stopping us from going great, since the talent is always seen when the desi migrates to West. And there are so many talented experts willing to return to India 'provided' they are assured of a good living standards (yes that includes more money which is not determined as one below or on par with the starting salary of an IAS officer) and/or freedom of work.
I like to take a dialogue from the Spielberg movie 'The enemy at the gates'...where commissar Danilov tell Krushchev that people need heroes to worship and to emulate to win the enemy. So if you expect that future students take R&D seriously you should make heroes out of the existing ones. It could be attractive salary or more media coverage or freedom of operations and so on. Just see what a few IT companies did to the Indian youth. They paid handsome remuneration from the 90s onwards, thus built around them s/w enggrs who are now so much in plenty...(to see what respect IT employee gets in local public, see the marriage market for exceptions). Every second guy/girl now wants to be a s/w enggr irrespective of whether a taste towards it is there or not.
Let there be attractive options to R&D youth, the rest all will fall in place and that is what i am talking about.

Jayesh Meledeth.