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Monday, September 1, 2014

New Force Accretions Are Welcome, But There's More On The Waiting List-1

Before getting into the nitty-gritty of various procurement contracts that were green lighted since last December, it is necessary to clear the mis-conceptions created solely by the ‘desi’ journalists regarding the roles and functions of the Indian Defence Ministry’s (MoD) Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), headed by the Defence Minister/Raksha Mantri, and the Defence Procurement Board (DPB). The DAC’s functions include (i) in-principle approval of the 15-year Long-Term Integrated Perspective Plan (LTIPP) for the three armed services (ii) accord of Acceptance of Necessity to acquisition proposals that are prioritised by the HQ Integrated Defence Staff (HQ IDS); (iii) categorisation of the acquisition proposals relating to ‘Buy’, ‘Buy & Make’ and ‘Make’; (iv) issues relating to single-vendor clearance; (v) decision regarding direct/indirect industrial ‘offsets’ provisions in respect of acquisition proposals above Rs.300 crores; (vi) decisions regarding transfer of technology (ToT) under the ‘Buy & Make’ category of acquisition proposals; and (vii) authorisation and facilitation of field-trial evaluations either on a competitive basis or sole-source basis. It is ONLY AFTER the DAC authorises a procurement process to begin that each armed service HQ begins the process of preparing and then issuing global or restricted Requests for Proposals (RFP).
The DPB, on the other hand, is the body that oversees all activities related to procurement on capital account in the MoD’s Department of Defence flowing out of the ‘Buy’ and ‘Buy & Make’ decisions of the DAC. It functions mainly as a coordinating, supervising and monitoring body for the procurement process undertaken by the Acquisitions Wing of the Department of Defence for the ‘Buy’ and ‘Buy & Make’ categories. In this process, it has the responsibility of approving the Annual Acquisitions Plans for the three armed services. It essentially accords approvals to all major projects which are beyond the powers of the Raksha Mantri (Defence Minister) and require the approval of the Cabinet Committee on National Security (CCNS) or the Union Ministry of Finance. The Defence Secretary is the Chairman of the DPB and its members include representatives from the various Departments in the MoD, the three armed services, and the Chief of IDS. The Member Secretary is the Financial Adviser in the Acquisition Wing of the Department of Defence. 
Let’s now proceed to the various approvals accorded for procurement. It was on December 23, 2013 that the DPB cleared procurement proposals worth Rs.16,000 crore (US$2.75 billion) that included 1) re-lifing of some 400 Israel Aerospace Industries-supplied Barak-1 missiles that were acquired for the Indian Navy (IN) between the years 2000 and 2005 (on October 23, 1999 the 268.63 million/Rs.5.8 billion contract for procuring seven Barak-1 point-defence missile systems or or PDMS, including 224 missile rounds worth $69.13 million and 14 EL/M-2221 STGR combined fire-control radars/optronic fire directors was inked  and these were subsequently installed on the aircraft carrier INS Viraat, three Project 15 DDGs and three Project 16A FFGs Brahmaputra, Beas and Betwa. By late 2003 the MoD inked a $100 million contract to acquire another four Barak-1 PDMS to be installed on three Project 17 FFGs and on INS Ran Vijay, a Project 61ME/Kashin 2-class DDG.); 2) procurement of seven new-build Barak-1 PMDS suites for the three Barch-2 Project 1135.6 FFGs and the four Project 28 ASW corvettes; 3) opening of competitive bids for supplying two deep-submergence rescue vessels (DSRV) worth Rs.1,500 crore ($258.62 million); and 4) placing orders for two Goa Shipyard Ltd-designed 75-metre naval offshore patrol vessels (NOPV), which are to be delivered to the Sri Lanka Navy as part of a financial assistance package from India to Sri Lanka. Barring the DSRV contract, all of the above-mentioned contracts have since been inked and orders placed.
This was followed in January 2014 by the DPB’s approval for inking a contract worth $300 million Rs.1,740 crores for procuring 98 Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei-built Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes for for the IN’s six Scorpene SSKs that are due for delivery between September 2016 and late 2019. This contract, however, has yet to be inked. After orders are placed, the first 20 Black Sharks will be delivered directly by WASS, while the MoD-owned Bharat Dynamics Ltd will licence-assemble the rest from WASS-supplied completely knocked-down kits.
On August 30, 2014, the DPB cleared for contract signature (subject to the mandatory CCNS approval) the following: 1) Rs.4,800 crores ($827.5 million) for medium-refits of two Type 877EKM SSKs and a service life-extension programme (SLEP) for one Type 877EKM SSK, plus the mid-life upgrade of the three Project 15 DDGs; 2) Rs.1,770 crores ($305.17 million) for procuring six Atlas Elektronik-built ACTAS ultra-low-frequency towed-array sonars for the three Project 15 DDGs and three Batch-1 Project 1135.6 FFGs, procuring 10 HUMSA-NG hull-/bow-mounted panoramic sonar suites for the three Project 15 DDGs, four Project 15B DDGs and three Project 16A FFGs, and procuring traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS-2) retrofit kits for all fixed-wing turboprop aircraft of the IN; 3) Rs.6,800 crores ($1.172 billion) for procuring 118 Arjun Mk1A MBTs along with related mobile field workshops, a Base Repair Workshop, a platoon gunnery simulator, plus ammunition stocks; 4) Rs.900 crores ($155.17 million) for TAC4G broadband communications networks from Israel Aerospace Industries for the Indian Army’s Tezpur-based IV Corps, Dimapur-based III Corps and Leh-based XIV Corps; 5) 22 Boeing-built AH-64D Longbow Apache attack helicopters plus related equipment and services, all collectively valued at $1.4 billion (Rs.8,120 crores), plus 15 Boeing-built CH-47F Chinook heavylift utility helicopters worth $1.4 billion (Rs.8,120 crores); and 6) 16 Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk ten-tonne NMRHs worth Rs.1,800 crores ($310.34 million). Also cleared for procurement on a fast-track basis were all-terrain weapon locating radars and long-range man-portable thermal imagers for the Border Security Force (BSF), as well as close to 200 8 x 8 heavy-duty left-hand drive trucks (to be delivered by BEML-TATRA Sipox UK) for housing Pinaka-1 MBRLs their command posts, ammunition resupply vehicles and mobile field repair workshops, as well as 29 DRDO-developed/Bharat Electronics Ltd-built ‘Swathi’ weapon locating radars and their related field repair workshops. Total outstanding requirement for such trucks as of September 2010 was 1,676 units. 
Lastly, funds were released for the IN’s existing Dwarka-2 forward operating base in Porbandar to be expanded into a permanent naval base that will be spread over 500 acres and will host both warships and submarines. It will be known as INS Sardar Patel.
On that very day, the DAC authorised the MoD’s DRDO to begin the process of prototype development of the Arjun Catapult. Subject to successful user-trials being concluded by early 2016, 40 such units will be ordered at a cost of Rs.820 crores ($141.37 million, or $3.53 million per unit).
As far as the present-day state of the eight surviving Type 877EKM SSKs goes, Russia’s Rubin Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering had confirmed to me last March that the authorised total technical service life of each such SSK is not 20 years or 26 years as has been claimed by several retired IN officials over the past few days, but 35 years. Furthermore, each such SSK undergoes only one medium refit (inclusive of a mid-life upgrade) once after completing 13 years of service, and on its 26th year in service, it will undergo a service life-extension programme (SLEP) or a long-refit (inclusive of further upgrades) so that it will remain in service for a total period of 35 years. As part of the SLEP for the remaining eight Type 877EKM SSKs, the IN in future plans to equip them with thin-line towed-array sonars as well as new-generation optronic periscopes. Thus, while the IN will by 2018 be able to muster eight Project 08773 SSKs and retain the last of them in service will 2027.
The Severodvnsk-based Zvezdochka State Machine-Building Enterprise has to date upgraded five of the eight Type 877EKM SSKs to Project 08773 standard at an aggregate cost of Rs1,560 crore (or an average of US$156 million per unit):

* INS Sindhughosh S-55, whose keel was laid on May 29, 1983, was launched on July 29, 1985 and was commissioned on November 25, 1985 and it was subjected to a medium-refit and was also upgraded to Project 08773 standard between 2002 and 2005.

* INS Sindhudhvaj S-56, whose keel was laid on April 1, 1986, was launched on July 27, 1986 and was commissioned on November 25, 1986.

* INS Sindhuraj S-57, which was commissioned on September 2, 1987, was subjected to a medium-refit and was also upgraded to Project 08773 standard between 1999 and 2001.

* INS Sindhuvir S-58, which was commissioned on December 25, 1987, was subjected to a medium-refit and was also upgraded to Project 08773 standard between 1997 and 1999.

* INS Sindhuratna S-59, which was commissioned on August 14, 1988, was subjected to a medium-refit and was also upgraded to Project 08773 standard between 2001 and 2003.

* INS Sindhukesari S-60, which was commissioned on October 29, 1988, was subjected to a medium-refit and was also upgraded to Project 08773 standard between 1999 and 2001.

* INS Sindhukirti S-61, which was commissioned on October 30, 1989, has been declared as a writeoff.

* INS Sindhuvijay S-62, which was commissioned on October 27, 1990, was subjected to a medium-refit and was also upgraded to Project 08773 standard between 2005 and 2007.

* INS Sindhurakshak S-63, which was commissioned on October 2, 1997, was subjected to a medium-refit and was also upgraded to Project 08773 standard between August 2010 and January 2013.
Next in line for a medium-refit and upgrading to Project 08773 standard is INS Sindhushastra S-64, which was commissioned on May 16, 2000. This will be followed by the medium-refit of INS Sindhudhvaj S-56.--all this being confirmed by the MoD way back in September 2013. Contracts for both medium-refits will be concluded between 2015 and 2019.  INS Sindukesari S-60 will soon proceed to Severodvnsk for its final SLEP.

Project 75 Conundrum
ARMARIS’ then Chairman Peter Legros had on July 10, 2005 confirmed that a revised package was being finalised under which an adjustable price mechanism (known as REM) to offset the cost escalations caused by delays in finalisation of the Project 75 contract (involving the licenced-construction of six single-hulled 1,565-tonne CM-2000 Scorpene diesel-electric submarines—all to be assembled by the MoD-owned Mazagon Docks Ltd, or MDL) would be arrived at by the MoD’s Price Negotiations Committee in the near future. On October 6, 2005 the contract for was finally inked, with the then French Ambassador in New Delhi Dominique Girard and the MoD’s Additional Secretary (Acquisitions) D Banerjee signing on the contract worth Rs 18,798 crore. Of this amount, Rs.2,700 crores (400 million Euros) was set aside for MDL to place orders with both foreign OEMs and local vendors for materials (all grouped under the category MDL-Procured Materials, or MPM) like 80 HLES high-yield steel steel (coming from ArcelorMittal), pipings, shaftings and valves. The contract also stated that the MoD had the option of procuring another four MDL-built Scorpene SSKs between 2015 and 2020—these being the AM-2000 version of the Scorpene and equipped with an AIP plug-in module. Metal-cutting for the first CM-2000 SSK began on May 25, 2007, and keel-laying of the first three SSKs took place in December 2006, December 2007 and August 2008, respectively. By late 2009, however, it had become evident that the various India-based industrial vendors that had been contracted for supplying the pipings, shaftings and valves had failed to comply with the stringent build-specifications of both DCNS of France and Spain’s Navantia (which together had formed the ARMARIS consortium). In fact, both the IN and MDL had warned the MoD about such an eventuality and had suggested way back in mid-2005 that of the six CM-2000 SSKs, the first two ought to be built at DCNS’ Cherbourg-based shipyard (if this was done, then the IN would have received its first two CM-2000s by late 2012) and during their manufacturing stages, the various contracted Indian industrial vendors would be mentored by their French and Spanish counterparts to attain the required degree of production competencies, thereby ensuring consistency in QC and QA levels once MDL began licence-building the remaining four Scorpene SSKs. However, since this did not happen, as predicted, the Indian vendors failed to produce components that were compliant with OEM-mandated specifications and this, consequently forced MDL to exercise the only option then left on the table: place orders with France-based and Spain-based OEMs for supplying such components at an extra cost of Rs.4,700 crores (700 million Euros). Consequently, the total cost of Project 75 was hiked to Rs.23,562 crores in February 2010, along with revisions in delivery schedules. New indents for MPMs were placed between mid-2010 and November 2012. On top of all this, internal project mismanagement by MDL created additional complications. For instance, although four batches of a total of six CD-based Transfer of Design Data (TDD) packages had reached MDL by the first quarter of 2013, they could not even be opened because the CAD-5 software to run the CDs had not been acquired by MDL. Similarly, though DCNS had advised MDL in 2006 to buy a 2000-tonne press for bending the thick steel plates supplied byArcelorMittal, MDL acquired it only in 2011. By then, the contract for bending the steel plates had been outsourced to Pipavav Defence & Offshore Engineering Ltd. The press now lies idle in MDL, with no steel to press since all the hulls have already been made. MDL had also signed a 65 million Euros contract with both DCNS and Navantia for deputing an ‘Advising & Overseeing Team’, and ended on March 15, 2013 and this contract was renewed only late last year. The first Scorpene SSK is now scheduled for delivery in September 2016 (instead of December 2012 as originally planned), and thereafter, one each every nine months through to May 2019.
The above shameful saga only raises some pertinent questions that no one has bothered to ask so far: why did the MoD and its Department of Defence Production & Supplies, along woth the Govt of India’s Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion (DIPP) decide to licence-build all six Scorpene CM-2000 SSKs despite the grave reservations expressed by both IN HQ and MDL? And did anyone or a group of officials making up the decision-making loop become direct or indirect financial beneficiaries through such willful criminal negligence at the cost of the Indian exchequer?  
This then brings us to the option for procuring the four AM-2000 SSKs. While the performance parameters of both the CM-2000 and AM-2000 variants remain the same, the length of the AM-2000 increases to 70 metres and its submerged displacement is 1,870 tonnes, against the 61.7 metres and 1,565 tonnes of the CM2000. Both SSK variants will have a crew complement of 31 (with a standard watch-team of nine) and endurance of 50 days. The AM-2000’s hull too will be built with HLES-80 high-yield stress-specific steel, which will allow the SSK to reach diving depths of up to 300 metres (1,150 feet) and achieve an average of 240 days at sea, per year, per submarine. The AM-2000, just like the IN’s six CM-2000s, will also feature a connection point for allowing a DSRV to dock during collective crew-rescue operations.

Though the DRDO’s Ambarnath-based Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL), along with the Kochi-based Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), have since 2002 been trying to developing an on-shore fuel cell-based air-independent propulsion (AIP) system that will enable an SSK to stay submerged continuously for about 25 days, till to date, no significant R & D breakthroughs have been achieved nor are they expected to be achieved in the latter half of the decade. Apart from the NMRL and NPOL, other DRDO laboratories and industrial entities that are involved with this R & D venture are Larsen & Toubro, THERMAX, IOCL, TEXOL, Indian Institute of Petroleum, AKSA, CEEFES, C-DAC, DIGITRONICS, NSTL, RCI, ROLTA and MDL. This then leaves the IN with only two AIP options: either go for the DCNS-developed MESMA (Module d’Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) system, or opt for the Stirling Engine. In MESMA, ethanol and liquid oxygen are mixed in a high-pressure burner to a temperature of 700 degrees Celsius, which acts as a heat source for a primary water-loop, which is pressurised at 60 bar, thereby allowing operations to full diving depth (a bar is a measure of pressure roughly equivalent to one atmosphere; at the sea surface the pressure is 1 bar, at 10 metres it is 2 bar, at 20 metres it is 3 bar, at 100 metres it is about 10 bar and at 600 metres it is 60 bar). The primary loop passes through a steam generator. The steam, which is greater than 20 bar and 500 degrees Celsius, spins a turbine attached to an alternator. The alternator charges the SSK’s battery. The MESMA AIP on the three Agosta 90B SSKs of the Pakistan Navy is capable of producing 200kW of energy, which provides enough energy to for a light battery-charging rate when the SSK is cruising at 6 Knots. Newer versions of MESMA use diesel instead of ethanol that, like the Stirling Engine, limits the additional AIP fuel supply to just liquid oxygen.

The Stirling-based AIP is a closed-cycle engine that uses helium as the working fluid. Diesel and liquid oxygen are mixed in a high-temperature burner to a temperature of 750 degrees Celsius, which acts as a heat source for an enclosed quantity of helium. The helium is driven through a repeating sequence of thermodynamic changes. By expanding the helium against a piston and then drawing it into a separate cooling chamber for subsequent compression, the heat from the external combustion of diesel and oxygen can be converted into work that can then be turned into electrical energy by a DC generator. The DC generator charges the battery. Gases from the process are mixed with cooling water in a special carbon dioxide dissolver and discharged into the sea. This AIP uses less pressure than a MESMA, operating at 20 bar. Each Stirling Engine is capable of producing 75kW of energy, with two or more installed on each SSK.

Blowing The Lid Off The INS Sindhukirti Saga
For far too long, the ‘desi’ band of journalists covering national security issues has consistently alleged that almost all foreign OEMs—and especially those hailing from Russia—have never lost any opportunity to take India for a ride, that India has always been at the receiving end of their ‘devious’ marketing efforts, and consequently, India can never depend upon such OEMs when it comes to the crunch. The most recent example of ‘yellow journalism’ has appeared here:

News-reports like the one highlighted above always inevitably contain only selective facts, which in turn tell only one side of the story, and consequently, the truth always becomes the first casualty. So what exactly is the hitherto-untold saga of the INS Sindhukirti? To get to the bottom of matters, we need to go back to the year 2004 when the IN has headed by Admiral Madhvendra Singh (he was the Chief of the Naval Staff between December 29, 2001 and July 31, 2004). INS Sindhukirti had by then been in service for 15 years and was due for its mid-life medium-refit—a job that could be done only at a Russian shipyard—since neither the USSR nor Russia had ever allowed/authorised any other shipyard abroad (be in it India or China) to undertake such jobs.
It was at this time that Chennai-based The India Cements Ltd’s N Srinivasan (presently its Vice Chairman & Managing Director and also Chairman of the ICC) teamed up with a former IN submariner by the name of Commodore S Shekhar (see his bio-data at:, who is the  Promoter and Managing Director of JMPS Sanjivini Consultants (Pvt) Ltd, for exploring ways and means of entering India’s market for submarine MRO-related businesses. Together, Srinivasan and Shekhar did a detailed feasibility study on the prospects of conducting in-country medium-refits of the IN’s fleet of Type 877EKM SSKs in cooperation with Russia-based OEMs. The feasibility study, conducted with the assistance of Russia’s Rosoboronexport State Corp, was next taken to the Chairman & Managing Director (CMD) of state-owned and Vizag-based Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL), Rear Admiral (Ret’d) Ajit Tewari, who was previously the Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (P & P) at Naval HQ and after his retirement, became HSL’s CMD on February, 3, 2004. This where the scene gets murky, since Naval HQ sometime in mid-2004 authorised HSL (which came under the MoD’s administrative control only on February 8, 2008) to begin work on INS Sindhukirti’s medium-refit (with Srinivasan and Shekhar reportedly acting as project consultants for HSL) despite the fact that HSL had by then not inked any kind of military-industrial agreement with Rosoboronexport State Corp (consequently, HSL at that time was not authorised by either the Govt of the Russian Federation or any Russian OEM for undertaking any kind of medium-refit-related activity on any Type 877EKM SSK).
It was only on October 3, 2006 that Rosoboronexport State Corp inked a Rs.650 crores contract with HSL for rendering industrial-cum-technological assistance to HSL for undertaking the INS Sindhukirti’s medium-refit-cum-upgrade—a task that was originally due for completion by 2010. Rosoboronexport State Corp in turn signed a back-to-back contract with the Severodvnsk-based Zvezdochka State Machine-Building Enterprise, which became HSL’s principal industrial partner for executing the INS Sindhukirti’s medium-refit-cum-upgrade. Zvezdochka subsequently began materials supplies as well as turn-key activities that included: completion of entire degutting in May 2007, completion of blasting on the entire hull structure for defect survey in February 2008, removal of hard-patches from all six compartments, installation and commissioning of two pipe-bending machines at HSL, and qualifying and type-certifying HSL’s welders to take up repairs on INS Sindhukirti’s hull structures. And by May 2008, Zvezdochka had delivered to HSL all technical/engineering documentation that was required for undertaking the medium-refit-cum-upgrade.
The question that then arises is, why will INS Sindhukirti be delivered to the IN only in March 2015, when Zvezdochka takes between 24 and 28 months to refit-cum-upgrade a Type 877EKM SSK? The answer is elementary: it is all about skilled human resource mobilisation. Zvezdochka typically employs more than 200 personnel in three shifts to complete the job in two years, while HSL until late 2008 could mobilise only 50 workers. Furthermore, HSL bagged the contract for INS Sindhukirti’s medium- refit-cum-upgrade at a time when highly skilled human resources like welders were in high demand at the nearby Ship Building Centre (SBC), which had then been leased by the MoD to Larsen & Toubro (L & T) for undertaking final assembly of the S-2/Arihant SSBN’s hull superstructure. L & T, which began shipping the S-2/Arihant’s hull-rings (fabricated at Hazira) and internal bulkheads and fitments (fabricated at Powai), literally poached all of HSL’s pool of skilled human resources by offering them much higher salaries and related perks—all of which left HSL high-and-dry. HSL consequently had no other option but to recruit new personnel and with Zvezdochka’s assistance, train them from scratch until they could acquire a credible degree of job proficiency—a task that easily consumed almost four years. And that’s the reason why INS Sindhukirti’s medium-refit-cum-upgrade could not be completed by 2010 as originally scheduled.
(to be concluded)


Raman said...

Nice.............old Vintage Prasun !!

Anonymous said...

"procuring six HUMSA-NG hull-/bow-mounted panoramic sonar suites for the three Project 15 DDGs, four Project 15B DDGs and three Project 16A FFGs"
How do 6 suites fit 10 ships?

DAshu said...

as well as close to 200 8 x 8 heavy-duty -' left-hand '- drive trucks(to be delivered by BEML-TATRA Sipox UK)

sumit sen said...

dada why not mdl had not built type209ssk as a stop gap measure with aip?? Since mdl have the tot and experience?? Its still a deadly ssk if equipped with mordern systems, aip and harpoon..

rad said...

hi prasun
we have finished the the engineering of the aesa radar for the awacs , the drdo seems to be happy about the performance , why are we still making conventional radars like the rohini , revathi , bharani etc. The aesa is a generation ahead and has inherent eccm so why still these radars.?
Why cant we again go to israel and get collaboration for the long range sam rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.After all we always get a world class system when we collaborate like the brahmos or the barak-8

Kaustav Bhattacharya said...


M R said...

M K Bhadra Kumar is a leftist commentator who happens to be a former diplomat as well. (His father M K Kumaran was a former communist MP). Naturally, his views are coloured with a tinge of RED and he tends to criticize anything related to BJP and Congress driven foreign policy. He needs to be ignored like other leftist intellectuals.

Underground said...

You say the S-70B's procurement was cleared sir but the S-70B still hasn't been declared the winner of the NMRH bid yet so how can the S-70B be cleared??

RD said...

Seems eurofighter is becoming another F35.

Though a good fighter but highly expensive that even Germany is finding hard to maintain. Above all UK, Germany trying hard to convince India to buy it.

Arup said...

Hi Prasun,

1.Garpun Bal radar has an active range of just 45-50 km.Then how come it is able to provide fire control data to the 145 km ranges Kh-35 and the 290km ranged Brahmos.

2.Many sites say 3T-25E garpun FCR can operate in OTH mode but is there any credibility to it? If NMRH are required to provide OTH targetting data then what is the use of Garpun bal in the first place-To provide targetting data upto 45 km of range?

3.Were any more Barak-1 ordered in the past few years?There were news of IN acquiring around 262 Barak to replenish existing stocks.

4.Wont any ACTAS be bought for the 3 Kolkata class and the 3 P-16A,P-17 and 2nd batch of Talwar class FFG ?

5.IMI was blacklisted.But there was a deal of 130 mm cargo rounds for M-46.Was this deal terminated or it was carried out?

Rajeev Chaturvedi son of Subir Bhattacharjee said...


Please answer the queries in your previous thread.


Mayur M Manapure said...

Sir do you think NaMo will be able to implement his dream of Running High Speed Rail Network.... And leaving aside former don't u think he should Improve the current Rail Network on war footing....can you shed some light on it on how NaMo can achieve it.Thanks in. Advance

vishakh said...


If India is considering S70B then which anti ship missile they are looking for as penguin is already way out ???

H said...

Then the logical replacement would be Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace's-Naval Strike Missile.
I think thats' why Prasun Sir showed it in the post- Fitments Of Project 15A DDG INS Kolkata D-63.
Isn't it na sir?

buddha said...

inceMany many thanks for the links
sir..what is the status of service induction of Prithvi-III in armed force

Biswajit said...

Hi Prasun,
Off topic but want to know about your POV on 1)How does Kanchan Armor Mk2 compare against all the other contemporary modular composite armour?
2) And what is exactly the speciality of Nano-crystal steel (nor Triple Hardness Steel) armor on board Japanese Type-10 MBT
Thanks in advance.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAMAN: VMT indeed

To Anon@11.19AM: Have corrected the mistake. VMT.

To DASHU: Shit happens!

To SUMIT SEN: Of course that would have been the logical option to be exercised since the late 1990s & I have been writing about it since 2004. HDW had even designed an AIP plug-in for the Class 209/Type 1500 & had unveilled in April 2000. However, only the late Rajiv Gandhi can answer why he unilaterally cancelled the Class 209/Type 1500 SSK’s licenced-production programme in the late 1980s when there was no need for him to do so. This is how these so-called leaders have haemorrhaged national security over the years & yet the blind buffoons of Bhaarat have turned such folks into larger-than-life figures & have erected ‘Shtals’ & ‘Samadhis’ in their honour whjere every year productive man-days are lost while commemorating the birth-dates, attainment of puberty dates, loss of virginity dates, marriage dates, death anniversaries & what not!

To RAD: Who cares whether or not the DRDO is satisfied with the performance of the S-band AESA airborne airspace surveillance radar? What matters most is whether the complete EMB-145I AEW & CS functions optimally as an integrated platform as specified by the IAF’s ASQR.

To KAUSTAV BHATTACHARYA & M R: Maybe that’s why he doesn’t get invited anymore to the current-affairs talk-shows of the major broadcast TV channels.

To UNDERGROUND: The 16-unit NMRH’s closed bids were opened on August 30. Those concerned with the results of this bid already know which party has emerged as the L-1.

To RD: The Eurofighter EF-2000’s fate in India is sealed, period, no matter how hard some Delhi-based military-industrial publications continue to lobby in favour of Eurofighter GmbH.

To ARUP: 1) Via the shipborne NMRH or the Ka-31 for over-the-horizon targetting & mid-course targetting updates. 2) If you site the radar antenna high atop a mast then of course the horizon will be farther away at a greater distance—standard law of physics. 3) Around that figure. 4) Nope. The remote-controlled high-speed autonomous surface vehicle containing a dunking sonar will be used instead. 5) The deal was terminated.

To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: Will do so, rest assured.

To MAYUR M MANAPURE: Topmost priority is to improve the existing inter-state rail networks along the major trunk routes. Bullet trains will follow later but will be limited to distances not exceeding 300km.

To VISHAKH: Already mentioned that two threads ago—Kongsberg’s HSM.That’s what H explained to you as well.

To BUDDHA: Ready for service induction, but not yet approved for service induction.

To BISWAJIT: 1) It compares favourably. 2) NCS is lighter but stronger at the same time.

Rajeev Chaturvedi said...

@ "Rajeev Chaturvedi son of Subir Bhattacharjee": 1st Sep, 8:43PM


That's quite offensive, whoever you are. You are not only insulting me (in addition to stealing my name) but also my father.

Be careful. I have warned you.

Biswajit said...

Hi Prasun,
Looks like someone is following your post & ideas.Have look at this report from HT

Anonymous said...

The entire MDL-Procured Materials idea was a stunt by the UPA Govt that has cost the country dear.
First they spent 2 years renegotiating the P75 contract that had been finalized by the previous NDA regime. When they had nothing to show for the wasted time they pulled MPM out of the hat to attain a better renegotiated price by hiding some essential purchases under MPM and claiming higher indigenous content in the project. This was known from day one that all MPM items had to be procured from the OEM hence the Navy and MDL protested. However the UPA was more interested in pulling cheap political shots than concerns of national security.

Raman said...

Awaiting your update on the "Waiting List"

Also........All this still seems to be on 'Discussion' last 100days....No 'Deals/Orders' seems to have been signed (except with BAE for the ASRAAM and Heron's from Israel ??)......and with the DAC approving more purchases the "waiting list" just keeps getting longer.....

Looking forward to you update and also by when you expect the Orders/Deals to be actually signed so finally some action/implementation starts.........

Reddy said...

A summary/ Notes on Modi's 100 Days in Office:

Reddy said...

Some Valid Points here for Japan doing business in India and WRT Japan doing business in china

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

1. if you remember sometime ago i had said India should either buy the UK Sentinels that are to be decommissioned or should buy something like that, but you said India does not need anything like that, but the AEWC pic shows both are almost identical except for the bar which is on top for us and at bottom for them.

2. Still dont understand what purpose does this AEWC plane serves that A50I Phalcon on IL76 doesnt

3. Also you said long back that current geopolitcal environment dont warrant a nuke test anymore but then why India refused to commit when Japan asked to ban it recently

4. I believe 4 AM 2000 added to 6 CM 2000 wont provide numbers needed, dont you think its time to put to use tech we got from HDW to make more littoral subs or special purpose subs by L&T

5. Is it true that AAC will also get lot of chinooks after the current lot goes to IAF


Joydeep Ghosh

rdx said...

Hi Prasunda:

1. Is Akash capable of neutralizing Babur cruise missile?if not are we defenseless against babur or tomahawk like cruise missiles?

2. Does the IAF have an equivalent of Pakistani Ra'ad.Do we have defense mechanism for the same?

Sudipta said...

Dada I have some questions,
1. Do the LCH/LAH or Rudra is bullet resistant? If yes what is the protection level?
2. Do we have any financial benefits in FGFA deal like no license fee or free technology transfer?
3. Do camouflage pattern really matters so much because I see Israel army personnel in camouflage?
4. Why the meals ready to eat supplied to troops in J&K are beyond the expiry dates. Do the supplier directly supply to them? If not why?
5. Why the Indians praises the NRIs got famous in abroad? ex- Amartya Sen is like larger than life figure to Indians. If he is so great why don't he stay & help to boost our economy?
6. If any NRI made any scientific break through we used to feel proud. Shouldn't we be ashamed that we can't provide him the needs so it has to be done abroad?
Thank you & please if got any spare time from your busy schedule answer the queries from the previous post.

rad said...

hi Prasun
Its very distressing to hear that a wing commander tries to cross into pakistan and a special forces officer goes missing!.What is really happening and why are these people defecting especially the special forces soldier.These people are highly trained and in all possibility would have been approached to defect and given a new passport and identity etc. what can we do ?.

Reddy said...

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

1. A good article as to how Big Data is helping MRO in the Aerospace Industry. Unfortunately even today here in INDIA we do not have competent NoSQL analysts in large numbers.

2. As far as Mod’s Japan visit is concerned I feel that INDIA cannot replicate all the policies that Japan had implemented because Japan made most of it’s progress in the 70s & 80s when they could arbitrarily decide tariff rates for exports/imports. India today is a member of WTO & therefore will not be able to fix tariff rates arbitrarily. What India can import from Japan, is Japanese work ethics. This sole import, I suspect can make a world of difference in India. But I believe vested interest will not allow that to happen.


Reddy said...

NOSQL is just a component in "Big Data" Ecosystem.

I do not believe in your declaration of India not having NOSQL Analysts.

India produces the most number of "cyber coolies" [No Intention to Hurt anyone] in this arena as well.

The issue here is either these people lack entrepreneurial opportunities/thoughts due to lack of Industry to support these BIG Data Startups OR these people(99.9%) learn these technologies just for the sake of getting a job in US/EU, even if they are using in India, mostly they use it for US/EU projects.

India still is the destination to learn IT cheaply..

[Cyber Coolie Tag: Just do 9-5 Job on the system, without knowing WHY...

Indians learn How and What of IT, not the WHY aspect, so is the tag, not given by me, but those guys who are employing ie US/EU.. This is the reason India couldn't launch any product in IT, what is being offered in IT Services, not products..]

Big Data Ecosystem:

vishakh said...


You mentioned HDW already has AIP for Type - 209 submarines. I would like to know why is IN not developing future platform of submarines on 209 designs.It can be made equaily good as scorpene by taking parts from Type - 214 sub like sonars, engines etc and also by enlaging the size of submarines to 2100 tons.

what are your thoughts ??

Vikram Guha said...


What you said, is what I meant. Just that you have described better. Let me take another shot at this.

There are Big Data/NoSQL analysts in India. However, their quality is around average. Which makes them suitable for BPO jobs only. And I know this first hand. Not just Big Data, even in other platforms like iOS , Ubantu, Malware testing, etc , India is struggling big time.

Case in point,if you look into IT competitions like Top Coder , Code Jam among others you will notice that Chinese, East European and Russian coders are in the top positions. Indians are languishing at the bottom with the likes of our friends Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sub Saharan African countries.
IT firms started by Indians in the US including companies like TCS, Infosys will inevitably have Europeans,Russians as Team Leads and Indians reporting to them.
Thanks for the explanation.


Anonymous said...

I work with Indians, from TCS. I can say over 90% are well below average and are not at all trusted by the europeans. Pakis believe it or not perform far better and are trusted by the europeans. The good indians are really good but can be let down by even worse managers, who shout here like monkeys. Indians dont portray a good image.

Reddy said...

@Anon September 3, 2014 at 2:31 AM

We can feel your frustration(s),
Give some GAP and have some rest..

Reddy said...

@Anon September 3, 2014 at 2:31 AM

Being Anon,
where are you here?


Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun,

How does the DRDO CABS AEWC compare with Erieye?

Best Regards

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Hi Prasun,
Have a look at this report....

Vikram Guha said...

@Anon September 3, 2014 at 2:31 AM

No Pakis in the US or EU are IT analyst. They do menial jobs in the US like cab drivers, sweepers etc. Those who are somewhat smart, passes themselves off as Indians, so that they are not mistaken to be terrorists.

Feast your eyes on this

Sarath Kumar said...

Prasun sir, please reply to queries in previous thread.

Arup said...

Hi Prasun,


Is there any truth to this ?

2.From where are we obtaining cargo rounds for M-46 and FH-77B howitzers ?

3.Why did IN use Lynx U2 instead of EL/M-2221 STGR on board the Kamorta class ?

4.Is there any chance of IA augmenting its rocket based arty arm to compensate for the detoriating gun based artillery wing in the form of more Grads,Pinaka-1,2 and Smerch ?

5.Is there any chance that the Bhim-SPH project is restarted ?

Kittu said...

Hi Prasun,
If time permits you and if you are willing, would you like to write something or a thread on WB-Bangladesh axis with aspects covering:

WB - Bangladesh

1. TMC
2. BNP/Jamaati
3. Muslims
4. Pakistan/ISI
4. US
5. Threats to Indian Security
6. RAW/IB ability
7. Immigration
8. Illegal Currency
9. Crime
10. Media

Off late I heard M J Akbar (along with lots of TMC MPs and MLAs) is actively involving in this part of this country


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BISWAJIT: VMT, but credit must be given where it is due. In this case, the masterplan for developing the A & N island-chain was developed in the mid-1980s by a team of bureaucrats led by N K Singh. It was Rajiv Gandhi who scuttled all such plans.

To Anon@11.19AM: Then the question which arises is: why have the band of ‘desi’ investigative journalists not yet exposed such state of affairs? Are they too na├»ve to figure it all out? Or have they been told to shut up & keep quiet?

To RAMAN: As I’ve explained above, what matters most is the approval of the DPB, not of the DAC. The validity period of most of the contractial offers have expired & they now have to be re-validated—this being a mandatory paperwork exercise. Only after this can contracts be inked. This process will commence from the third week of this month. No ASRAAMs have been ordered.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) No battlespace surveillance aircraft sports overhead radar antennae. All such aircraft sport belly-mounted antennae. The Bombardier Global 5000s of the ARC too sport belly-mounted antennae & the IAF’s Bombardier Global 5000s too will have identical avionics suites. 2) Choice of Embraer’s EMB-145 as the platform was wrong. CABS should have gone for the larger Bombardier Global 5000. 3) Japan never asked any such thing. 4) It is financially & industrially impossible to re-open the Class 209/Type 1500 SSK production line since all the manufacturing equipment procured by MDL in the 1980s have already been modified to suit the Scorpene SSK’s production & secondly, it is financially cost-prohibitive for any country today to have two different types of SSK production facilities. No one does it. 5) Nope.

To RDX: 1) Nope. That’s where the Python-5 of the SpyDer-SR SHORADS comes in. 2) The Nirbhay’s air-launched version is being developed.

To SUDIPTA: 1) They are to a CERTAIN extent. But not 100% bullet-resistant. 2) Nothing comes FOC. 3) Of course it does. 4) MREs are pre-stockpiled by the ASC & are never delivered fresh by any supplier. 5) He’s an academic & is therefore hardly in any position to contribute anything tangible to any economy.

To RAD: You’re assuming that all this is being done at someone’s behest. The Wg Cdr is mentally deranged while the SF(Para) officer may well have experienced some kind of difficulty when undertaking adventure tourism. If the intent was to go permanently AWOL then he surely would have informed his parents about it. In the past, some Jats from Haryana & Gurkhas from Nepal have gone AWOL permanently while on official assignments abroad.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) Despite having 380 ¬universities, 11,200 colleges, 1,500 research institutes and the second largest pool of ¬scientists and engineers in the world, ¬aeronautics is not a preferred subject of study in India. Most of the students who study aeronautics are working in other countries. Is it because the whole industry is either reposed with the government or pay ¬packages are not enough and there is no scope for growth in India. We need to encourage ¬private ¬players to come forward and employ the best of the lot. 2) Far beyond all that, the ‘Make in India’ slogan won’t find any takers for items like consumer electronics products since the labour laws in countries like Cambodia, Vietnam & Indonesia are far more flexible & business-friendly than those of India. Secondly, everyone knows that India’s existing maritime port infrastructure is the worst, most corrupt & most expensive. \Japan’s work ethics too can’t be embraced unless & until there’s a total total re-engineering process unleashed for changing existing mindsets. For instance, all the talk of cleaning up the Ganga River is only about building more water treatment plants. No one is even talking about cleaning the river by stopping the on-going man-made pollution! The day the tens/hundreds of millions stop thinking about attaining Moksha by throwing all kinds of perishables into the Ganga, burning corpses on her banks, & allowing dead animal/human corpses to float downstream, will be the day the Ganga starts getting cleansed. But will that day ever arrive? I don’t think so.

Mindsets need a radical re-engineering so that fogmas & demagogues both can be eliminated. Do read this:

To VISHAKH: ) It is financially & industrially impossible to re-open the Class 209/Type 1500 SSK production line since all the manufacturing equipment procured by MDL in the 1980s have already been modified to suit the Scorpene SSK’s production & secondly, it is financially cost-prohibitive for any country today to have two different types of SSK production facilities. The time to do it was in the previous 2 decades. All four Class 209/Type 12500 SSKs now have the very same CMS & sonar suites as those found on the Class 214 SSKs.

To RAJ: ON paper, it compares favourably, even better in many respects. But in practice, how the EMB-145I will fare as an operational in-service platform remains to be seen.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARUP: 1) It’s true, but it remains to be seen if the IN will accept the Sindhukirti as an operation al SSK. Or whether it will be handed over to the DRDO for use as a test-platform. But the report is WRONG in several aspects. For instance, refits are divided into short & medium. Secondly, even when the Sindhukirti was docked inside HSL all these years, why did the IN even then maintain its officer complement? What was the use of ‘commanding a SSK that’s not available for service? And why did the IN authorize HSL to open up the Sindhukirti when HSL was not even approved or licenced by the Russian OEM to undertake such work? And how can HSL EVER become a competitor to Severodvnsk-based Zvezdochka State Machine-Building Enterprise when Russia has approved HSL to undertake only this one medium refit? How will HSL undertake such refit work on its own if the several Russian OEMs refuse to supply the necessary replacement hardware? Therefore, all this talk of HSL becoming a competitor to Russia’s OEM is UTTER BUNKUM. And such misinformation gets invented, passed around, & accepted by the hundreds millions of gullible Indians because all of them have been conditioned since their childhoods to have a peculiar mindset that always believes: that the whole world is out to screw-up India for good; therefore it is the rest of the world that is always to be blamed; & India is always at the receiving end & she can never do any wrong & consequently she can only be wronged by one & all.

To KITTU: M J Akbar & all will obviously be involved because the Left Front’s disillusioned supporters are now joining the BJP by the hordes, with the RSS cashing in on this deluge by enrolling several such youth supporters into the steadily proliferating RSS shakhas. NaMo has raised high expectations in terms of deliverances of services & utilities—something the TMC has been unable to provide for the past 3 years & looks like the TMC won’t last beyond another 2 years. Bangladesh is making far more material progress than WB, rest assured. It’s even acquiring two KNPP-type PWRs from Russia—something that was originally supposed to come up at Haripur in WB but this plan was shelved by the TMC because it didn’t want any nuclear power generation plant on WB’s soil.

rad said...

hi Prasun
we are hearing that the IAF has decided to use the LCA batch ordered as conversion trainers ie even though they are single seat. Some thing wrong with them ?. If that was the case then why did the vice chief fly a tandem trainer he might as well gone on a single seater, kick the tyre and light the fire and fly!.
Why on earth did the navy opt for scorpenes with out the AIP initially when the whole world knows about the advantages, ie even after Pak got them, fails logic.How is the scorpene better than the agostas of Pak?
Is it better to buy the atacs from atlas rather than wait for some one to mount sonars on ribS, mean while we will be sitting ducks.
I happened to see a video on youtube off a russian navy ship using its ak-360 to target a somali pirate boat.It was horrifying to see the shots landing every where apart from the boat which was stationary.After repeated bursts they finally managed to hit the boat. I wonder how it can target fast moving anti ship missiles?.

sujoymajumdar said...


Any truth in this report that during the Russia-India joint exercise in Russia, the IAF was greatly impressed with the S-400 and Pantsir-S1?

India is particularly interested in Russia’s S-400 (SA-21 Growler), S-300PM (SA-10d/e), Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 Greyhound) and Buk surface-to-air missile systems, according to Maj. Gen. Babakov

Thank You

Rajeev Chaturvedi said...


SPS mentions that this order of 118 Arjun MKII tanks is the last which is going to come to CVRDE. Its almost a death knell for them. Indian Army would rather prefer T-90S tanks from Russia than Arjuns.

What is going on behind the scenes? Is there any upgrade possible or will indigenous tanks would remain a pipe-dream?


RD said...


How do u compare this new Verba MANPADS with stinger or RBS 70. Will India consider it to replace Igla-s in near future.

vishakh said...


1) With most companies comign out of Black list is there any progress in IA SKY Sheild GUn system from Rheinmetal ??

2) Which Guns IA Assault rifle from foriegn vendor selected for final Tender ??

vishakh said...


I am asking a very basic question but :

1) What exactly needs to be changed in Scorpene to make in P75I compatible . I mean AIP I understand but what is Land attack capability ?? Does it require changing Hull or just adding new missile support in submarine???

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,
Thanks for the explanation.

(1) I was reading your explanation about the rise of BJP in Bengal and what I feel is the BJP will not come to power in Bengal anytime in the near future because :

(a) They do not have any candidate of repute/charisma from Bengal. Who will be their CM if they come to power? Chandan Mitra, Bappi Lahiri and party are frankly a bunch of clowns.

(b) At the grass root level the BJP does not exist in Bengal just like in South India.

(c ) People in Bengal are worried that if BJP comes to power it will carve out Gorkhaland. 99% of Bengalis are opposed to it. Mamata Banerjee has convinced the people that this is what the BJP intends to do.

(2) Do you think that if China allows Indians to come and work in China, relations between India and China will improve dramatically? Indians tend to have a high opinion about those countries where they work like USA, Canada , Australia and Middle East.


Arup said...

Hi Prasun, You have missed out a few queries.

1.From where are we obtaining cargo rounds for M-46 and FH-77B howitzers ?

2.Why did IN use Lynx U2 instead of EL/M-2221 STGR on board the Kamorta class ?

3.Is there any chance of IA augmenting its rocket based arty arm to compensate for the detoriating gun based artillery wing in the form of more Grads,Pinaka-1,2 and Smerch ?

4.Is there any chance that the Bhim-SPH project is restarted ?

5.Is there any progress on the front of acquiring missile tracking ships for Drdo?

Common Sense said...


Was curious to read this:

Is Poland likely to buy this? If the Barak-8 is attracting such reviews worldwide (Eastern Europe/Azerbaijan), why is the Desi Media whining about it as a failure?

SUVO said...

Prasun Da,
any new news about TATA Kestrel 8x8 amphibious armoured vehicle & its varients.Any news about the tracked version?

Raman said...

Thanks for the Reply.

Look for to your concluding part (Waiting List).........

Regarding ASRAAM for the Jaguars.....I had read a article in the IHS Jane's on 7th July 2014, confirming that the UK and India had signed a GBP 250 Million deal for the MBDA's ASRAAM for the Jags to replace the R550 Magic's........(also I think I saw a similar article in the IDRW around the same time)...

Gessler said...

Any comments, Prasun ji?

DefenseandAerospace said...

Hi Prasun,

According to this report BEL has signed a JV with THALES to manufacture Radars.

Can you please shed some light as to whether these radars are being built keeping in mind any existing or forthcoming RFI/RFP?

Thanks for your help.

abs said...

It has been more than 100 days of the Modi Sarkar and it's therefore time to do a serious stocktaking of it's doings. Here are my questions
1)Do you see any major changes in the way this Govt. functions when it comes to defence and national security management over the other previous Govts.?
2)When, if at all, can we expect to have an SDR, followed by NSS and the respective Defence Planning Guidelines,Defence Capability Plan which would in turn make way for a comprehensive and holistic LTIPP?
3)What happened to the appointment of Chief of Defence Staff?
4)When can we realistically expect emergence of Integrated Theatre Commands?
5)There is a lot of ambiguity on this, and hence, what is the difference between Cold-Start,Pro-Active Strategy, Parallel Hyperwar and Transformation?
6)You posted: "Rs.900 crores ($155.17 million) for TAC4G broadband communications networks from Israel Aerospace Industries for the Indian Army’s Tezpur-based IV Corps, Dimapur-based III Corps and Leh-based XIV Corps;"
This is interesting. It would appear the Army has not confined 'Trasnformation' to only the Pakistan front and is preparing for waging an effects based network centric parallel hyperwar along the China front.
7)If the motive is to only occupy territory not beyond 30 KMs inside Pakistan. Then of what use would be the Strike Corps?
8)You mentioned of the development of a long ranged 2000Km ASCM. Does it point to Area Denial strategy being adopted?
9)Any active plans under consideration to transform Andamans to another Hong Kong?
10)When is the LAH likely to surface?
Why is the Army HQ taking so long in raising the CAB arm of the AAC with its complement of Rudra gunships?

Prakash said...


Don't you think that apart from Kashmiri Pandits the other HINDUS who were displaced from Kashmir Valley should also be rehabilitated in Kashmir?

Currently, the BJP government seems to be interested in rehabilitating the Kashmiri Pandits only in the valley.

H said...

That JVC could well be for Rafale Jet's related Sub-systems & others.

Ranjit said...


Has IAF been flying AW-101 in VIP duties? A friend of mine saw one flying in Kolkata when President was visiting.

We had a serious argument over it but he is insistent that it was AW-101. I can't believe the news but he rarely makes mistakes.

So are they really in duty now? what happened to Mi-17s?


Pintu said...

Prasun Da, as usual a great thread once again, very many thanks again.

Prasun Da, how do you view threat of Ayman al-Zawahiri against India, so a. is it a pity that status of Al-Queda gone to such drain that it had became Pawn in the Hands of Pakistani Army and ISI ? b. What about the protest led by Imran Khan and Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, against Nawaz Sharif , was it another circus courtesy PA /ISI ? Once that failed in its goal then entered in Al-Queda totally bankrupted as a dance-doll in the hand of PA ?

Mayur M Manapure said...

Just saw Comedy video online....would have posted the link but it had been playing on All national News Channels.....even when US know that bastard is sitting somewhere in Quetta why the f#@k they can't Pull the Pakistan's ear and tell them to Hand over Them Zawahiri.....Also do you think Dawood Ibrahim might have moved to a more secure place within Pakistan due to Modi Sarkaar...

West Indian said...

what a shame

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

For those who are able to stomach the truth, I've uploaded above a new part of the narrative dealing with the INS Sindhukirti saga. Will answer all remaining queries including the ones from the previous thread later tonight.

Sakshi said...

Now borrowing your own logic, words, and facts
literally poached all of HSL’s pool of skilled human resources by offering them much higher salaries and related perks—all of which left HSL high-and-dry.

What happens when 100% FDI is allowed?
Will all 52 DRDO labs, ISRO, HAL, ADA, DAE etc loose all their personnel?

The simple answer is YES.

financeblogger said...

Hello Prasun

Is the above another piece of yellow journalism or is there some truth in the same?

Biswajit said...

Hi Prasun,
Do the above carry report have any truth to it or not?

Pintu said...

"Will all 52 DRDO labs, ISRO, HAL, ADA, DAE etc loose all their personnel?

The simple answer is YES."---------

It is a trend all over world, that people vie for better prospect, nothing unusual.

Prasunda, please share your views on the questions of the previous thread.


abs said...

The Indian Govt. has sounded it is ready to provide assistance to the flood relief operations being undertaken in PoK by Pakistan.
Seems like a careful well planned game is being played to woo the PoK residents. This in concert with the recent cancellation of talks with Hurriyat, ostensibly for a quid pro quo on G&B,will stand us good as and when Pakistan gets balkanised.

Sakshi said...

You Said:
"It is a trend all over world, that people vie for better prospect, nothing unusual.

Prasunda, please share your views on the questions of the previous thread. "

So it is VERY MUCH ON THE WALL that in a single stroke (100% FDI), it can kill all Indian public sector undertakings built over the last 6 decades and with Billions of Public Tax Money going to drain and Indian Defence Budget going directly into foreign banks by purchasing all those defence products. This leads to a situation that you (Indians) take birth, work, pay taxes, buy defence products to protect yourself just for the purpose of generating income to some foreign companies..


Ishant said...

Hi Prasun,
Is it true what this report is saying.
Thanks in Advance.

Pintu said...

"So it is VERY MUCH ON THE WALL that in a single stroke (100% FDI), it can kill all Indian public sector undertakings built over the last 6 decades and with Billions of Public Tax Money going to drain and Indian Defence Budget going directly into foreign banks by purchasing all those defence products. This leads to a situation that you (Indians) take birth, work, pay taxes, buy defence products to protect yourself just for the purpose of generating income to some foreign companies..


My point:

"It is a trend all over world, that people vie for better prospect, nothing unusual"......

Of course, it is universal trend, not in India, only , leave apart High Tech Sectors, and Highly Skilled manpower therein, in our daily life people in our surroundings from every works of life, do change their respective working organisation but also nature of their job,albeit the terms and conditions suiting his/her needs, one need not to go through a newspaper for frequent occurrence of joining /leaving companies by the High Ranked Managerial Officers,but taking a look into daily life we can observe even the persons who are familiarised one or even ourselves try to better job or change organisation for better prospect, and that happens from maid servant to highly skilled manpower, coming back to the topic this migration may only be other way around, if those offers from the Defence PSUs /Research Organisations you mentioned match or even better the offer that comes from Private Players like L&T or TATAs,happenign of the same are in far cry in reality & near-impossible thing to happen in very near future,

However, I feel that ISRO enjoys far better position than its Defence Counter parts.

To me, Brain-Drain is worrisome, than person leaving an Indian DPSU for another Indian private player, nothing to be happy or remorse about for myself, but I don't know about others.

however my above assumptions may be wrong.

Lets Prasun Da to share his views.


Prasun da,

16 Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk ten-tonne NMRHs worth Rs.1,800 crores ($310.34 million).

That means only the air frame is being bought @$20m/unit and will be fitted with radar and asw sensors as per IN requirement and therefore this was a commercial deal.

Will XV 2004 and LFDS will go in it or it will be a imported solution?

rad said...

hi prasun

IN Page 2 of 7 The official drdo write up of the emb-145 awacs says that it can do surface surveillance and air surveillance , does it mean that it has SAR capabilities, what are they referring to ? L band is not used in SAR. Is there data fusion like the phalcon? from the esm ,ecm,comint etc?.Has he software been done indigeniously?.

Mr. RA 9 said...

Twelve AN-32, four IL-76, five C-130J and two C-17 transport aircraft of the Air Force have been deployed by the IAF to rescue thousands of people who are still stranded in the worst floods that the state of Kashmir has witnessed in the last 60 years


are baba kahan gaye tum??? Main thik se padh nahin pata hun tumhara bina....take care of me.wake up Prasun da :)

vishakh said...


THis Link says Australia is buying Soryu class submarine from Japan , direct puchase .. for 20Billion ...

Can India do the same for its P75I project???

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: That’s because now the IAF has decided to order the tandem-seat Tejas Mk1 MRCA in greater numbers out of the 40 ordered so far. The bulk of those 40 will now be tandem-seaters. The IN always wanted the Scorpene SSKs with AIP from the outset, but it is the DRDO that sabotaged all such plans by claiming that it could develop an AIP plug-in by 2010. Thus, the MoD got taken for a big ride by the DRDO on this issue. EMB-145I’s existing AESA can do a limited amount of GMTI & surface warship profiling. It does not have SAR capability.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Getting impressed does not mean one has to procure those very same systems. Of course when a visiting delegation is abroad & is treated to some firepower demonstrations, ten out for the host, the guests cannot afford to snigger.

To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: That’s not true at all. There are many more orders to come, especially BLT Arjuns & ARV versions of the Arjun. Will detail them all in the next thread.

To RD: It is a dual-mode (IR/UV) guidance version of the Igla, just like the FIM-92A Stinger & China’s FN-16.

To VISHAKH: 1) Not yet, but a decision on this will be taken in the near future. All 3 armed services have already formally stated that this gun is their combined preferred choice. 2) Land-attack capability for Scorpene SSK means being able to fire land-attack cruise missiles like Novator’s 3M-14E version of the Klub, which can be fired from existing torpedo tubes. Australia basically always wants to make colossal mistakes & the decision to go for the Soryu-class SSK is yet another one. What Australians refuse to acknowledge is that while a SSK’s design can be imported, what cannot be imported are the build-skills & engineering ethics. That’s why a Soryu-class SSK will be an excellent product when it is made-in-Japan, but will be a horrible product when built in Australia. That’s precisely how the Collins-class SSKs got such a bad reputation. While there was nothing wrong with its design from Kockums, everything went wrong once Australia produced them in-country, since the hull fabrication skills of the Australian shipyards were very very poor.

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) 3 years is a very long time in politics & everything is possible within that time-frame. That’s why politics is the art of achieving the impossible. 2) Not quite. Because China’s official history as taught to Chinese citizens still says that Indians are the dregs of humanity & that Indians too were responsible for humiliating China during the Opium Wars when they fought alongside the Brits, & lastly, the Indian Sikhs & Dogras are held responsible for the massacre of Tibetans early in the previous century. Taken together, such interpretations of history greatly distort the average Chinese’s mindset regarding India.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARUP: 1) From Israel. 2) Because at that time the MoD had barred the IN from procuring the Barak-1 CIWS as IAI was undedr investigations by the CBI. 3) Of course & I had already detailed them before. 4) What for? 5) Yes.

To COMMON SENSE: Why not? The ‘desi’ journalists have nothing better to do & don’t even bother to do their homework & hence their total ignorance about such matters.

To SUVO: Nothinh new to write about.

To RAMAN: No such contract has been inked as yet. If it were inked, MBDA would have issued an official press-release about it by now.

To GESSLER: Nothing for Venezuela, since export of any weapon system to that country will greatly offend Uncle Sam. For Vietnam, two GSL-designed & built 105mm NOPVs armed with Uran-E ASCMs will be exported, while Indonesia wants a Battery of land-launched BrahMos-1s for deployment in Natuna Besar Island in the South China Sea.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: Not for manufacturing, but for after-sales product support for THALES-built radars already in service with all 3 armed services of India.
To PRAKASH: Of course. Rajdharma should always be conducted without fear or favour.

To RANJIT: That’s unlikely, since the operational conversion of IAF pilots to the AW-101 hasn’t yet been completed.

To PINTU: It’s just a turf war between a totally defunct Al Qaeda & a grouping like ISIS which can’t even locate India within a world atlas.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SAKSHI: This is what happens when one makes blind assumptions. For, as I had stated quite some time back, no one will step forward from abroad to take 100% stake in any military-industrial production venture. Furthermore, BrahMos Aerospace Pvt Ltd has 49.5% Russian stake, meaning previous govts have allowed more than 26% stakes by foreigners on a case-by-case basis. Whenever a JV like that is established, it means only the Indian party is required to do some R & D of its own & not the foreign party since the product to be co-developed has already been developed to a very large extent by the foreign party (like the case of Barak-2 or BrahMos-1) & therefore the foreign party does not require any pool of human resources from India for conducting any R & D. Therefore, poaching of DRDO personnel doesn’t even arise. Only senior managerial & engineering talent will be poached by the private-sector within India but this doesn’t pose any crisis at all. Private airlines have done the same for the past 2 decades & neither the IAF nor the state-owned airlines have suffered in a catastrophic manner. If cleared on a case-by-case basis, foreign FDI for securing a majority stake should be welcomed. An excellent case is that of Japan’s ShinMaywa, which wants to set up something like Maruti Udyog in India & use India as the firm base for exporting the US-2 amphibian throughout South Asia & the IOR.

To FINANCEBLOGGER: That is only part of the truth. In reality, the Indian company (staffed by ex-MoD bureaucrats & some retired IN officials) that drafted the direct industrial offsets package on behalf of Kangnam & allegedly also secured some commitments to pocket some more money as commissions. And mysteriously, Kangnam ultimately emerged as L-1, even though Kangnam hardly makes the entire MCMV all by itself & it too has to depend on several imported sub-systems for its GRP-hulled minehunter design, whose IPRs are all held by Italy’s Intermarine. And GSL had since the late 1980s had an agreement with Intermarine to produce GRP-hulled minehunters. So how come Kangnam suddenly emerges as L-1 (lowest bidder)? Furthermore, the world’s foremost & most renowned builder-cum-designer of GRP-hulled minehunters is Intermarine. Even the US Navy’s Avenger-class MCMVs are from Intermarine. And yet the MoD mysteriously chose to award the contract to Kangman—how come? These are some of questions the ‘desi’ journalists always fail to ask while drafting their so-called investigative reports, thereby leaving their readers totally confused with all the drivel that normally gets published. The same is the case with the Project 75 Scorpene SSK contract. Both the IN & MDL had smelt a rat a long time ago when the MoD’s Dept of Defence Production & Supplies had mandated in 2005 that the MPM package be implemented. Everyone knew then itself that the persons that were insisting on the MPM were the very ones who had done the math & knew very well that in future MDL will have to ink a supplemental contract with DCNS worth $1.3 billion, i.e, come up with a born-again MPM package. And this of course meant making more money through commissions & consultancy fees. That’s the real stink which no ‘desi’ journalist has even come close to smelling thus far. IN almost 90% of such cases, I know exactly what’s going on behind-the-scenes & am highly surprised that the CBI & CVC are clueless about them. When the right time comes, I will reveal them in nauseating detail, just as I have done regarding the INS Sindhukirti.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BISWAJIT: Total baloney & utter drivel.

To ISHANT: Yes, it is true indeed. For the IAF, the time has now come to go all-out for the Rafales & defer the procurement of the FGFA. One has to choose between the two. Both cannot be acquired as it will be unaffordable. And clearly the FGFA’s definitive powerplant has not yet surfaced, whiuch is a cause foir great worry.

To SANJEEV KUMAR: A NMRH is not like an automobile in which one can fit any kind of desirable accessory. There were two kinds of deals being offered from the USD. One was a FMS package for the MH-60R, while the other is from Sikorsky for the S-70B (similar to what the Republic of Singapore Navy operates), which is a direct commercial sale deal. The IN prefers the S-70B, but it will have to come with US-origin sensors & avionics, since installation of new sensors/avionics will take at least another 3 years for testing & certification. XV-2004 is still six years away & won’t be available till then. LFDS is for 5.5-tonne helicopters. The S-70B requires a heavier dunking sonar like the HELRAS or FLASH.

To Mr.RA 9: All that’s very fine, but how about joint operations? How about a unified ATC/ATM arrangement? Why not test-out the EMB-145I AEW & CS at this time for air-traffic management? Looks like such matters have not been taken into account & this very same was the case during the Uttarakhand floods last year when each armed service was working in watertight compartments.

To ABS: 1) Decision-making is being streamlined & operational autonomy is being given to battlespace commanders wherever due. 2) SDR will be conducted only after a full-time defence minister is in place. 3) CDS cannot come about until the SDR is finalised. 4) Not before the SDR is finalised. 5) They are all the same & are waged by embracing the concept of knowledge-based warfare, as opposed to estimates-based warfare. 6) That will be explained in great detail in the next thread, with charts & illustrations. The TAC-3G on which the F-INSAS project was running has finally & thankfully been junked. 7) Strike Corps HQ will be used only for theatre command-and-control. The armoured brigades of the Corps will be used in an autonomous manner for both massing & dispersal depending on the fluid nature of the battlespace. 8) That wasn’t me. 9) Not anymore. 10) PV-1 (originally the TD-3) will surface by the year’s end.

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You PrasunDa

(1) I was reading your comment about the FGFA. It seems the Ruskies are once again screwing INDIA.They know India is a corrupt country, so they can get away with murder. The unfortunate part is India cannot pull out of this project because we India has invested millions of dollars already & will not get it back from Russia.

(2) How is it possible that private individuals like Srinivasan and Shekhar got the permission to carry out a detailed feasibility study on the prospects of conducting in-country medium-refits of the IN’s fleet of Type 877EKM SSKs?


Sakshi said...

So you mean to say JV and FDI are one and the same??

My assumption is : They are NOT

For a JV, a foreign company need not bother about FDI "AT ALL" as they are only bound by technical contributions from each side and both parties willing to bring a product.

Also your answer has shown a way how 100% FDI is utterly useless from technical point of view: If India needs some technology it can form a JV on a 50:50 basis provided other party is happy for it and is interested in the magnitude of the Indian requirements.

The problem comes from 100% FDI as the foreign vendors just want 100% of the profit for themselves while keeping the tech to themselves and make India for ever dependent on them for the next 50 years for any item they sell to us. This is on the top of tax evasion schemes while routing the funds through Mauritius.

Am just against the 100% FDI and finding the reasons for it.

50:50 JV or 49% FDI is a win-win for India and for Foreign vendors.

Also you stated that when L&T poached welders and it lead to 4 year delay to train and mature the new guys.. for an important national project like scorpene subs can happen like this, the level of control, risk mitigation and program viability, survivability of any Indian project when 100% FDI is any childs guess.

All this is happening when Indian Industry is slowly maturing atleast in some of the verticals.

Also I have other question to ask on ISRO.
Does ISRO authorised to seal deals with out PM's approval?
It seems so in Devas case.. and if a such a law exists saying ISRO is not authorised and such a deal is illegal both Devas and ISRO team must be in jail.
Thanks for answering this.

Finally for the benefit all your fans (me included) I would like to request you if you can write an article on "100% FDI and Implications to all Stakeholders" in your free time, so that no questions like this will arise.

Thanks a lot.

sujoymajumdar said...


The Chinese company ComNav design and produces combined GNSS (GPS,GLONASS plus BeiDou) OEM board for UAVs/UGVs.

Have any Indian company (both private and government) that manufactures UAVs designed such a technology?


abs said...

1)So based on what I get, SDR is ongoing?
2)The Strike Corps, have ceased to exist in their traditional roles, and instead it's elements are to be deployed for massing or dispersing either autonomously or some of it's elements like the division strong IBGs would be aligned to the erstwhile holding corps for the initial break in contact battle, following which break out will happen?
3. Bikram Singh did a great disservice to the nation by disbanding the TSD and blowing the covers off the people involved in it.
What will come of them? And what will replace the TSD?
4)What is this about?
Thanks once again.

Common Sense said...

Thanks, Prasunji. By the way, have you seen this?

What exactly is happening with defence planning in this country? Why is this project delayed, if there is any delay, that is? Second, I can't understand why the RFI has been sent to companies from Russia, Sweden and South Korea, who don't seem to have anything that is readily available as a quick-reaction SAM. Would appreciate your comments!

Reddy said...

While in UK

If any one think what harm does this contract does to UK as UK Subsidiary has got contract and is good for UK, they need to think business ethics again..

even Commonwealth corruption case originated in UK while 1.4 billion people sleep as if nothing bad is happening.. despite having 100s of channels, thousand of print media...

I wonder what should Indian Govt do to punish Karuturi Farms for their unethical practices in Africa..

Mahantesh said...

@Prasun Ji
Please explain the goings on in the Middle East

rad said...

HI Prasun

I happened to see some pics of a the p-8I ,what is the pod in the underbelly between the 2 wheels?. There seems to be a drouge chute or some thing on top of the tail , towed ew system?has it got dircm?.

abs said...

In the first question above I tried to mean if SDR is on the cards instead of 'ongoing'.

abs said...

One more question:
What does the recent detention of ISI Lankan spies signify? How come their cover wasn't blown for as long as 15 years, do I sense some kind of deliberate foul play on part of GoI

Raj Shekhar said...


When GTRE has built an engine with 52 kN thrust output, why don't they modify it into a smaller engine for Jaguar? Why looking for new engine in Honeywell?

Btw any future for Kaveri engine?

vishakh said...


Kalyani group wants to producr Small arms and ammunation for IA .

1) They are interested in 155mm Bofors ammunation .Which company do they have tieup for TOT ??

2) Are they looking into Guns / Assault rifles as well??

3) What other products except Howitzer are they planning

RD said...


Is it final? How do you compare this with other dsrv's of remora or ocean works.

Anonymous said...

Hindu at it again..

The title used by hindu is highly objectionable as it is suggesting she has supplied blue prints to Indian MoD or DRDO kind of thing...stupid hindu.

Pintu said...


1. Prasun Da, what is the intention behind sudden interest of MP David Ward debating on resolution of Jammu and Kashmir ? Had PA / ISI any role to play in it ? Why should not issue of Scottish Independence be discussed in Lok Sabha ?

2. New Indian Express reporting suddenly about possible referral of Brahmos Aerospace to BIFR , is the Financial Condition stated have truth in it or baloney utterly ? a. b.

3.Prasunda, in your reply to Vikram you have pointed out to the distortion of Chinese mind by the Official misinterpretation of Indian attitude to the China, by the PRC, so, their sincerity in living in the Peace and Prosperity with India is highly questionable, kindly share your views.

Reddy said...

Politicians exhibit same straits

Anonymous said...

typo: it should be trait

Biswajit said...

Some good news for Private Shipyards....

Kaustav Bhattacharya said...

Just idle curiosity on my part. I am sure that the much delayed refit of the KILO class INS Sindhukirti has nothing to do with INS Arihant but one cannot but wonder why all this media publicity and discussions of INS Sindhukirti completing its refit just about the time that INS Arihant is about ready to be commissioned?

Gessler said...

Sir, read this -

Are they talking about Fleet Support Ships like DCNS Brave-class or actual LPDs like San Antonio-class?

Soorya said...


What do u know about Arihant-follow on class submarines?

sathead3 said...

@Gessler, where is the confusion? The article clearly says, "... for building the four Landing Platform Docks..." LPDs it is, at least from what that article says.

Suvo said...

Prasun Da,
is it possible to make our own diesel-electric submarine jointly by MDL and L&T, from the experience of Type 209/1500,scorpene & Arihant? Just like the Chinese Song class submarine.

What type of AIP system is made by DRDO?

Rajeev Chaturvedi said...


Is it true? What has changed to come to this conclusion? Will there be a naval version as well?

SK said...


What is the effectiveness of Kolchuga Radar and Vera-E Radar? Are they effective in detecting stealth aircraft?

Pakistan seems to have bought them while China acquired its technology through civilian contracts.

My question is how effective they are? Moreover, has India got something similar? If not then why doesn't it buy some of them?


Gessler said...

@SATHEAD3 - I'm not sure whether to believe those lines or not. Because IN has so far only been looking for FSS like BRAVE-class from DCNS (the acquisition of 4 such FSS being recently cleared), and then we're looking for ships like Juan Carlos-I/Mistral/Dokdo...which do not technically classify as an LPD. but as a Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) or Landing Platform Helicopter (LPH). Again we're looking for 4 of these.

An LPD would mean something like the Jalashwa (Austin-class) or San Antonio-class. As far as I know we haven't really been searching for such vessels anymore. Hence I asked for clarification.

Anonymous said...

why don't you check navy/mod website for original news?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

PLAAF Advertisement:

NORINCO’s 2014 Armour Day:

JDR said...


So LCA MK-1 is not even good for IAF's Surya Kirans? Americans fly F-16, Chinese fly J-10, Russians Fly Sukhois but Indian Air Force is so ashamed of LCA Tejas that it even doesn't want for Surya Kirans? See the following:

What a great shame!!!!

Dariaus said...

Sir, any ideas when the first IAF upgraded Mirage 2000s will be back in India, apparently it should have happened in AUg/Sept 2014 as per the Dassualt Chief back in 2013 Aero India.

Also sir are you certain that the IAF will start using their AW-101s to transport the PM/VVIPs? I'm still not convinced of this... I think the 3 Aw-101s will remain mothballed indeifnelty and the IAF will NEVER receive he remaining 9.

SYED said...

Prasun sir,

Will the LCA Mk.2 be coming with the same cockpit as the LCA Mk.1 or the HALBIT NEXT GEN cockpit as you had speculated a while back?

Gessler said...

Prasun ji, your opinion on possible secession of Scotland from UK? Is it really gonna happen? If yes, what could be the effect of it on the UK's military & economic capabilities & their international role/importance?

Mr. RA 9 said...

So Rafale have started getting some more experience, this time against ISIS.

Mas said...

Hi Prasun,
Why are you silent on Xi Jinping visit to India and the news associated with his visit? Who is/will be the loser?

abs said...

1)Please elaborate on the interesting developments between India and China wrt Afghanistan and Pakistan as part of this visit?
2)It would appear NaMo has done well to insist on clarity on LAC to test the genuineness of Chinese intentions on solving the border dispute.
3)What does the entry of India and Pakistan into SCO mean for Afghanistan and fighting CAR/TTP/etc. terrorists holed up in Pak?
4)A few years back USA seemed to have offered India to play it's role in the Asia Pacific, especially ASEAN, do you think with the kind of engagement we are seeing with the ASEAN, India has slowly begun moving towards it?
5)India seems to be changing its status quoist stance in light of ISIS in Middle East. Could you shed more light on the objectives?
6)I hear since NaMo's coronation the Indian Army has been given green signal to undertake aggressive border patrolling vis-a-vis China(does this hold true of ITBP as well?) and to deal with Pakistan in equal measure. Is it true?

abs said...

Also Prasunda,
vimanashastra seems to be a hoax just like vedic maths.

sntata said...

Dear Prasun,
I am off Net for a long while due to connectivity problems in this remote tribal area, but have been following you on mobile, though could not post queries. You can bet I was seething with questions!
1.Don't you think NaMo is doing extremely well on all fronts, defence, economy, foreign affairs? He seems to be a statesman in hurry to make up for all the lost years.
Do you think he blinked first with Chinese President, pleading for a speedy boarder demarcation?
2.It exactly happened as you have been advocating all along, though it happened in a round about manner. The IAF are going to confine Tejas-1 to LIFT duties and not combat duty. Do you think the Army should pitch for Tejas-1 as a Close Air Support Fighter for its AAC?
3. Avinash Chander recently declared that DRDO is developing a QR-SAM. Is it based on Astra? Is that the reason for MOD's loss of interest in Maitri?

sujoymajumdar said...


Interesting news.

The Pakistani Navy wanted to sink a US Navy ship in the Indian Ocean. So says our fried Al-Qaeda

Anonymous said...


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MAS: Here’s an excellent discussion on the respective grand strategies of China & India:

I’ve been silent because I was busy for the past four days with an IA-sponsored seminar on field artillery. Will therefore start answering all outstanding queries later today, rest assured.

vishakh said...


There is news that IN Anti submarine contract may be modified for "Make Category" instead of simply buying from vendor.

Raj Shekhar said...


What do you think about this article by Prawin Sawhney in Force?

It sounds quite full of baloney. The problem with Indians is that they try to read too much into Chinese steps and non-steps. Its not a rocket science and India doesn't have to do that.

China is a nation-state which doesn't have much respect for international structure and rules of diplomatic engagements. Fine, then treat it as such and stop reading it psychologically.

For example, Chinese are giving stapled visa to Arunachalis and justifying that they are Chinese citizen.

Fine, understood. India would now give stapled visa to anyone and everyone coming from Tibet and Xinjiang. Why? Because we don't believe that they belong to China.

Hey the name of the province itself is "Xinjiang" - i.e. "New Lands" which was grabbed by Manchus and not even Han Chinese.And Tibet, I don't need to tell.

Follow this policy for a while and let them come up with some new trick. We are not going anywhere and everyone agrees -- Time is on India's side. Chinese biological clock is ticking.

Anonymous said...

I remembered MOD banned force india guys to come to MoD or any of its premises for news or otherwise

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

US State Department has decided to approve a possible sale of 160 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAPs) for around $198 million. According to the State Department determination, Pakistan will buy 160 Navistar Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAPs) for an estimated cost of $198 million. The potential sale will have no affect on military balance in the South Asian region. The principal contractor of the sale will be Navistar Defense Corporation based in Michigan and will require two US government representatives and 24 contractors in Pakistan for 18 months to monitor de-processing of vehicles upon delivery, provision of training, diagnosis and repair within the time period. DSCA has delivered the required certificate to US Congress to notify it about the potential sale. The US Congress will still need to clear it on order for the sale to go through. The MRAPs which Pakistan will purchase include 110 MaxxPro Dash DXM, 30 MaxxPro Base DXM, 10 MaxxPro Dash DXM Ambulances, and 10 MaxxPro Recovery Vehicles with protection kits, spare parts, repair kits, documentation, personnel and equipment training.

financeblogger said...

Is the info in above mentioned link true. If yes then what are its implications?

MPatel said...

What do we lake of this report:

abs said...

Thanks for the links. For once the 'Desi' media were able to have quite an informative show on the India-China relations.
I had asked you quite a few questions above, pending your reply to those, I would like two more
1)What is the 'Tibet Card' that P.P.Chaudhuri refers to? I feel India had unilaterally given the Tibet Card away on a platter to China earlier.
2)The face off in the Western Sector of the Indo-Sino border shows no signs of ending. I would want you to detail us if the Indian response to the PLA has been adequate.
Given the game of one upmanship that is usually practiced in such circumstances, would like to know whose response seem more mature and better. Also has the new NaMo regime brought about any qualitative difference in the way things are being handled wrt such face-offs?

Gessler said...

Prasun sir, what do you believe are the possible weapon systems India can export to friendly countries?

Can we have a quick rundown of the list that you're aware of?

Gessler said...

I meant, weapon systems that actually have a possibility of being exported. Have someone shown interest in them?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

1. please take a look at the article, with regards to views on China either you copied him or he copied you

2. The multiple locations of current standoff in Ladakh & with Chinese supremo asking PLA to be ready for war all these dont augur well for India with US troops withdrawing in not so distant future this may be ploy to take pressure off Pakistan, or worst case a 2 front battle for India

3. Btw you have said INS Sindhukirti is a write off if so then why its being brought back from the dead

4. Could Japan allow US2 plane manufacturing in India

hope to get answer


Joydeep Ghosh

Sunit said...
Is it true that China has been able to nibble so much of our territory to China as a result of similar face offs in the past where China would advance and then not retreat back? How did one reach this figures? And what areas constitute such incursions?

sathead3 said...

@joydeepGhosh, "...either you copied him or he copied you..." How about a little tact bro? :)

Mr. RA 9 said...

In the meantime, supersonic MiG-31 interceptors successfully practiced the elimination of an attack by low-altitude cruise missiles. President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, Konstantin Sivkov, told the RIA Novosti news agency: “The US Air Force has not trained on such tasks, whereas other countries do not possess aircraft that could do anything similar.”

How much truth is there in the above statement.

Gessler said...

ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) has been successfully inserted into Martian orbit. Congratulations to ISRO and all my fellow well as the NASA scientists involved in supporting the mission.

abs said...

Is it possible that the IA-IAF could resort to cutting off Chinese NH-219 connecting Tibet with Xinjiang?

Ex-Intelligence said...


Can you please provide the source that proves that NASA helped ISRO for this MangalYan mission? Granted, they did not launch a missile to shoot down this satellite.

The US tried desperately to sabotage ISRO for years by levelling false accusations against Sr.Scientists.

A better view of how the West perceives the Mangalyan mission can be found here

Mr. RA 9 said...

Some Europeans have appreciated the ISRO's MOM.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Were you suffering from some kind of post-Mahaloya hangover when you posted your last comment?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr RA 9: European Space Agency, which represents 20 countries, had also entered the Mars orbit successfully on its first attempt in 2003. The United States and the Soviet Union are the only nations to have landed on Mars but the Soviet mission fell silent shortly after landing in 1973. US has landed multiple missions on Mars.
$74 million: That’s the amount India spent on its Mars program. Modi described it best when he said the Sandra Bullock-starrer Gravity costmore to make than India’s Mars mission. NASA’s Maven mission, admittedly more complex, cost $671 million in comparison. European Space Agency’s 2003 Mars Express Orbiter mission cost $386 million. Japan’s failed mars mission cost $189 million.
Rs 7 per kilometre: That is how much the journey to mars cost India. That is cheaper than an auto ride in Delhi, which will cost you, if you are lucky, Rs8 per km.
324 days: The time India took to complete its Mars mission. The program was launched on November 5, 2013 and after 10 months, Mangalyaan was finally put in the martian orbit on Sept. 24. It took NASA 308 days to put its craft in the red planet’s orbit.
400 million miles: That’s the distance travelled by Mangalyaan before it was put in the martian orbit.
51 Mars missions: That’s the total number of Mars missions undertaken so far. Apart from India, only US, Russia and Europe have succeeded in placing their satellites around the martian orbit.
$1.2 billion: That is what India spends on its space program every year.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Sudhir said...

Not entirely accurate Prasun,

European Space Agency's Mars mission in 2003, sent through a Soyuz Rocket of Russia from Baikanour, was a partial success. The star gazers were constantly in problem and it was fraught with solar flares, wrong algorithm and such problems. Finally, they lost it and the operation was declared a half-success. Reports of the entire trip were published by the ESA.

So in every sense, Indian first successful attempt to send MOM in orbit with its own rocket is a phenomenal achievement.

You may disagree but that's a fact.

Ranjit said...


PM Modi government has changed policies for investment in MRO sector. The website has details on it.

I was wondering whether these policies will make any difference in the MRO sector !! Are they on the expected lines of MRO sector? You are yourself in MRO business, so maybe you could shed some lights on this issue.

Last I heard, Indian policies on MRO were such that they promoted opening an MRO outside India, not inside.


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Excellent documentaries on:


B.787 Dreamliner’s QA/QC Problems:

Abs said...


Interesting!! I hope you reply to all the pending queries today.

Subir Bhattacharjee said...


Please come out of retirement and start answering my questions that I have posted using different handles.

You see there are no experts in the North East & so I pass myself off as an expert.

Therefore, I need you to answer my questions, so that I can hang on to my clients.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: I will explain everything through maps, charts & diagrams in a new thread later tonight.

To SUBIR BHATTACHARJEE: LoLz! Was actually busy for the past 3 days with, firstly, a seminar celebrating 50 years of the IN's Naval Design Bureau, & secondly, industry-level deliberations with some OEMs regarding the Tejas Mk2 MRCA, whose detailed design now awaits peer review by a yet-to-be-selected globally recognised combat aircraft developer/manufacturer. Will revert to active blogging tonight, rest assured.

3rd ~ EyE said...

Dear Prasun,
i came to understand that Sudarshan LGB development project had been wound up even after enjoying considerable success. Is it true information ?

Anonymous said...

The pakistani view:

Anonymous said...

Prasun, It seems you are spending considerable amount of time and money on the aspects related to Indian Defence.

What makes you to do this?

You work purely for your satisfaction?
and for your country? or you work for any other organisation for analysis purposes?

I know your MRO business do no need to focus on every aspect of your research on Indian Defence.