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Friday, April 24, 2015

Pakistan Navy's Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-Class & Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-Class Submarines

China’s R & D programme to develop the double-hulled Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-class and Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-class SSK submarines—all to be powered by China-developed Stirling Engine air-independent propulsion systems—was begun in January 2005. 
The first and only S-26 was launched at Wuchang Shipyard in Wuhan in September 2010, and it completed its harbour-trials by September 2012. Its sea-trials commenced on October 16, 2012 in the Bohai Sea. The S-26 has a length of 92.6 metres, width of 10 metres, hydroplane width of 13 metres and a height of 17.2 metres. It has a draught of 6.85 metres when surfaced with a displacement of 3,797 tons. It operates at a submerged depth of 160 metres, but can dive as deep as 200 metres. Maximum surfaced speed is 10 Knots and maximum submerged speed is 14 Knots. It can operate with a crew of 88 for 30 days without resupply, or 200 crewmen for three days.
The S-30 will have a submerged displacement of 6,628 tons, and will be armed with four vertically-launched Babur long-range land-attack cruise missiles and two submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM), most likely the upgraded JL-1 SLBM. Construction of the first S-30 is presently underway at Wuhan. Deliveries, however, will not commence until 2020 at best.  
The S-26 and S-30 submarines are being developed by China solely for the Pakistan Navy, and they will not enter service with the PLA Navy. The Pakistan Navy will procure four S-26s and four S-30s. China will also supply Pakistan with a submarine rebuild centre (SRC) that will be located at Ormara, and a VLF communications facility that will be located at Turbat. Deliveries of the S-26 submarines will begin by 2017.

205 comments:

1 – 200 of 205   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Prasun da,

is the S-30 not huge at +6000 tonnes. I guess they would become the biggest conventional subs. Again, has capability to fire SLBMs and cruise missiles and AIP. It is going to be a big problem for India.
What the Chinese have in mind, this is really crazy to arm a headless nation like this lethal stuff, who knows one day they will have to fight the Frankenstein (aka Sino-Soviet split).

Sreenivas. R

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SREENIVAS R: Well, this is what happens when a neighbouring country aspires to attain strategic parity with a far larger neighbour NOT as a welfare state seeking to match or overtake India in various socio-economic sectors, but as a national security state trying in vain to maintain military parity. Consequently, it has no other choice but to mortgage its real estate to foreigners & play host to economic corridors that will benefit only the party that builds & owns such corridors. This is the only way that Pakistan can earn the kind of money that's required for maintaining its status as a national security state. Such countries don't require smart cities or knowledge-based societies.

Militarily, it won't be a problem for India at all. Superior tactics employed against the very limited coastal frontage of Pakistan will take care of this issue en passant.

Pawan said...

Dear Prasunji,

I think time has come to retake PoK and encourage Balochistan independent movement with full steam. Balochistan CM & ANP already crying for bias in project

Regards,

Akash said...

Sir,

1. What are the strategic implications for us with Pakistan having a sub fleet capable of launching ballistic missiles?

2. Is the first S-30 a tech demonstr or an op platform being built for Pakistan Navy?

3. Pictures have surfaced of Candid airframes being shipped to Taganrog. Are these for the additional 2 Phalcons?

4. Can you provide some literature slides showing the 64 Vls of P15A and P15B with 32 reloads. Nothing has ever been said abt reloads.

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Prasun
- Will the IN and MOD re-strategize its submarine building plan in view of this acquisition plan??

- Will the scorpene line be extended for more??
- Will the IN get some submarine built in foreign shipyards to save time and ramp up fast?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PAWAN: India is bound by the unanimous parliamentary resolution of February 1994 to regain possession of PoK, which is exactly what the first UN resolution also says. Therefore, there's no escape from this strategic inevitability. What is also to be noted is that in their respective statements made in Pakistan's Parliament 2 days ago, neither Pakistan's President nor China's made any mention of the Kashmir issue. While Pakistan was told by China not to raise the issue (like claiming that Pakistan thanks the PRC for supporting the former's case regarding J & K), China's President & official Chinese media too did not even mention J & K by name, thereby strongly suggesting that China too does not support Pakistan's case anymore. Instead, Xi Jinping mentioned the PA's OP Zarb-e-Asb more than once in his speech, thereby indicating how much China remains concerned about the on-going state-of-war inside Pakistan.

These are very significant points that need to be taken note of by those concerned within India.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AKASH: 1) What it means is that India's naval ISR capabilities will have to be increased during both peacetime & wartime & this can be done. It isn't an arduous task. 2) It has to be a technology demonstrator first, because only the Soviet Navy had tried before to have SLBM silos mounted in operational diesel-electric submarines. 3) Possibly. Final cpnfirmation will come when they're seen flying into Israel for final outfitting. 4) They're not available since the IN or MDL do not release cutaway design drawings showing the various internal bulkheads. However, both, along with IAI & RAFAEL, have confirmed to me the number of reloads & ready-to-fire LR-SAMs on-board.

To RAM BHARADWAJ: 1) That has already commenced with the decision being taken to acquire an initial fleet of six SSNs. 2) The Scorpene SSK line could well be extended. There's still time left for ordering follow-on units. 3) No need to build them abroad. MDL with each passing day is gaining more work/skills proficiency in terms of building Scorpene SSK hulls & will therefore be able to deliver additional Scorpenes even faster than DCNS.

Anonymous said...

Prasun I have high regards for your analysis.I think that China is putting its fingers in a crack!It is just trying to shortcircuit our plans for Chabahr port etc!However what it doesn't realise is its putting its neck in the hands of volatile Islamists!It will be fun to watch how Pakistan is going to provide security to such a corridor!Regarding the subs 6000tonnes is way too big !Easy for our forces to find and sink!Secondly nuclear weapons on pakistani submarine!Pakistani Army will have indigestion!Canny China wants to purchase Pakistan!I wonder how the Pakistanis are going to afford it!Whether Pakistan will be around to take delivery of the subs is another question!What a fine kettle to boil isn't it!

Rajesh Mishra said...

The emerging Red Dragon China is the new incarnation of the East India Company and Pakistan666 is its first Gulaam. The Big Beast USA is watching.

F said...

Interesting how the S-30 will have a VLS for the Babur. Have always wondered why no Western or Russian yard currently has on offer a design that comes with a VLS. Having a VLS for anti-ship missiles would make sense as this would leave the torp tubes free to launch torps or mines.

The S-30 will be able to hit lots of targets with Barbur whilst in Pakistan territorial waters but it will be interesting to see if the PN deploys its S-30s on patrols in international waters, like how other navies do with their SSBNs. Having the S-30 in international waters would make it harder to be detected.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@19.59AM: It is still early days to reach any conclusion. Firstly, it remains to be seen if China can successfully develop an AIP-powered submarine capable of launching SLBMs while maintaining neutral buoyancy when such SLBM launches take place. Secondly, Pakistan presently does not believe in having an arsenal of ready-to-launch nuclear WMDs. Whether this will also apply to the PN’s projected arsenal of LACMs & SLBMs remains to be seen. So far, all indications are that the PA’s COAS is still not in favour of delegating either nuclear launch authority or distribution of nuclear WMD stocks among the PAF or PN. Thirdly, since the West, Iran & Israel are clearly worried about Pakistan’s arsenals of nuclear-armed IRBMs, it remains to be seen what will be the reaction of these countries to an operational PN fleet of SLBM-armed submarines. As for how will Pakistan find all this extravaganza affordable, well, that country since the early 1950s has acquired enormous expertise in mortgaging its core interests & assets & therefore will not be found wanting this time too. Hence the decision to allow China to implement the CPEC, which of course, will only benefit China in economic terms.

To RAJESH MISHRA: Not only the Christian North Americans & EU are watching, but also the neighbouring ‘Kafir Hindoos’, the distant ‘Yehudis’ & the not-so-distant Shia Iranians. The day will surely come when China will have to choose between Sunni Pakistan & Shia Iran. The decision will be made in favour of that country that wields the greatest geo-economic & civilisational influence around China’s sensitive western periphery, i.e. Central Asia. Maybe that’s why China has exported its FD-2000 LR-SAMs to Turkmenistan & Uzbekistan, while allowing the sale of only FM-90 SHORADS & LY-80E MR-SAMs to Pakistan.

To FARIS: Having VLS for only four LACMs doesn’t make any sense. The same number of LACMs can easily be fired from 533mm torpedo-tubes. Same applies to ASCMs too. VLS makes sense only for SSGNs that are tasked with either long-range land-attack or targetting carrier battle groups. On top of all that, AIP-powered or diesel-electric SSKs will have to be fitted with extra internal water-pumps & ballast tanks for maintaining neutral buoyancy immediately after the heavier SLBMs have been launched. Detection & tracking of such submarines is possible if done intelligently. Just as HALE & MALE UAVs are today employed for non-stop persistent aerial surveillance, it is equally possible for a swarm of fuel cell-powered autonomous underwater surveillance vehicles to keep persistent vigil around naval bases housing such submarines whilst remaining submerged in international waters. The undersea ISR solution is therefore there. One just has to make it happen cost-effectively.

Raman said...

Good detailed Report.

So as usual, we will be in 'reaction mode' ??

I guess - it's China that's the problem that India needs to address...look at the support/arms (all PA/PAF/PN) they are giving to tie India down. Pakistan is just a 'front' so we use a major part of our resources against pakistan, rather than China.

By the way, what are these 4+4 Subs going to cost and where is Pakistan going to get the money from/eventually they have to be paid for ......

What our 'reactions' to this: (1) 4+ more P8I's; (2) 16+ S-70B's; (3) more ASW P28's ?? (4) More Atlas Sonars (with BEL)?? (5) Quicker decisions on both more Scorpenes and P75I ?? (6) More Talwar Class ??

If we want to 'dominate' the IOR - i am sure there must be some short term/long term Plan that would take into accounts both PN and PLA Navy growth plans.

lachit said...

@prasun
the S26 looks viable and one example is already at sea

however the S30 is a Frankenstein of sorts.i saw this s30 sub poster before and had thought of it as a pure fan based creation.
i really cant digest the fact that it will be able to launch slbms.babur cruise missile is ok

also china now selling pakistan directly jl1 slbm .
it is like a slap on the face of india and world wide non proliferation efforts.
what will be the reaction on india us eu in this regard.

what will be indias best strategy in terms of political and diplomatic effort to stop chinese in giving pakistan slbm tech and forcing a rethink.

how about providing vietnam with missile tech with range of 300-1000 km

i feel india should rethink its one china policy & tibet,it can start by hinting at it at comming sino india platforms.

but given indias abject failure to stare at china especially on issues relating to transfer of critical and strategic weapons to paki, my view is india will just sit idle gawking like a clueless nitwit.

and even after this indians will be begging for friendship with china just cant understand indias appeasement policy in the past nor in the present.

Kaku Sh said...

PKS Sir,

If PN going for S-30, then that means Pakistan already shredded its plans for SSBN?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

1. China set for first state-owned firm Baoding Tianwei Baobian Electric Co Ltd's default on bond

If so is it the start of China crash that everyone feared

2. Also if i remember you said PN has requirement for 15 subs, how come with a shoreline of 20% of India's will it fit those

3. If i am not wrong the Arabian
sea is shallow sea in most places, which means SSNs, SSGNs, SSBNs that are over 5000t cant operate freely, which is why IN will operate atleast 10 SSKs below 3000+, so how come PN wants to use the 6000+t S30 design

4. You had said that you upload details about an airshow, where is it

5. Isnt it a better idea to share #HDW #Type209 ToT docs wit L&T so that it can build subs for countries like Bangladesh, Thaliand and other African/South American nations

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

raw13 said...

From my understanding, the 'nuke' subs may well be non-conventional powered. PN evaluated the 214 (PN engineers had even started training) and one of the main reasons they didnt go for it? They were not allowed to change the tube size, like israel was allowed to. The new Chinese sub had to meet the same profile as the 214 and better.

What does Pak think of rest of the world? it doesnt give a monkeys, when its CORE interests are involved. Our make up is such that we never ask for approval or seek it. We are confident, proud people and are used to doing what we think is necessary. USA/NATO learnt this in Afghanistan, GCC have learnt this now and Chinese are already aware. IA learnt this at Kargil. You Indians keep harking about it, probably due to your helplessness ;-).

Lachit and Raman have understood what these subs mean for India/ IN in the Indian Ocean. It means they will be busy looking out for the 'hook' (boxing term). When IN attacks, they will know the knock out blow can come anytime, anywhere. Indian Ocean is big and your resouces are limited. And that is the stuff of nightmares.

China needs to keep India boxed in. Because of kashmir it is our pleasure to do it. The money, well do you know how much USA gave pak? (30+ Billion), well a lot of it was earmarked for the Strategic systems and the kitty is still not empty.

WRT infrastructure, lot of these roads will also benefit paks. The power stations will use the coal in Thar, the solar parks will use the sun and the dams will water our farms. No we are not stupid, in taking projects that will harms us and China is far too smart to loose friends either. They know what the USA did wrong and how they lost the pak public (try reading non-indian papers). China is making sure it does not do that. You can understand this if you look at the projects without Indian blinkers.

Read this: http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2015/04/22/ten-lodestars-from-xis-pakistan-visit/

Kaustav Bhattacharya said...

Dear Prasun,

Sir, your Posts and Comments for some time have been most enlightening. It does seem that the scope for the Private Sector specially Small to Medium Enterprises riding piggyback with the big corporations is increasingly an excellent emerging Business area. Manufacture and Service of Parts, Components and MRO ancillaries will offer excellent business and employment opportunities creating finally the Military Industrial Complex required for India. Which states or locations in India are going to be in a position to host such industries or Units?

As for the Pakistan and China, there is nothing new for India to really do as relations with both of these countries are dependent on issues upon which no governing party can do anything substantially different. There is neither the requirement nor the possibility of resolving outstanding issues too fast. Our trading relations with China are quite good and Indians are quite capable of benefiting from and creating business opportunities. Boundary problems can always be resolved when the time is ripe or push comes to shove and obviously we are not in a position to liberate Gilgit-Baltistan or Azad Kashmir from Pakistan.

Rajesh Mishra said...

How Bhadra Kumar is so effectively managing to befool all the pakistanis altogether.

lachit said...

@Kaustav Bhattacharya said...

what u have said regarding india and china mutually benefitting from each other is true but only superficially.
china is in a better position to earn way more profits from china-india trade.
china uses its economic prowess as a dangling bait to force concession from other countries.
look at indonesia,vietnam african countries and even india(local toy industry is almost finished).
also the digital settop boxs it was a indian politician-chinese nexus.

china looks to destroy the local industry by pumping cheap goods and when time is ripe increases the price and as a result ends up making almost everyone dependent on imports from china.


also what are organizations like raw,ib,military intelligence drawing their salary for?
"obviously we are not in a position to liberate Gilgit-Baltistan or Azad Kashmir from Pakistan."
we must create the opportunities using covert or overt means,got to start somewhere.

but i agree with u, first priority should be economy.


eg UPA ke pocket mae nahi tha chawani,lekin chalethae 126 rafale kharidne .


@prasun

do u think modi will manage to come into power in the next lok sabha elections.
looking at previous trends modi might find it very difficult.
he needs to stay atleast 10 yrs minimum to put india in a respectable position with regard to china.what do u think?

lachit said...

HEHEHE !!!!
raw13 is on a roll today.
all confident, proud, damm care attitude, hooking left and hooking right.oh yeah!

as if the s30 submarine is going to be delivered at his doorsteps.
and if it is delivered by chance,
then kindly punch in these destination coordinates 90.0000° N, 0.0000° W.

lolzzz

Mayur M Manapure said...

@raw13 : this is what Prasun Da explained above.
Pakistan is and will remain a National security state.
If you think building highways, power stations and solar parks will improve Pakistans Human Development Index which is key for Overall Development of a nation( If you know basics of Social Sciences). Pakistan's Secondary sector (Industries) have suffered most due to your Yaarana with China. A few projects cannot support whole Pakistani economy. Look at your Railways. Look at your health sector. kuch to sharam Karo. Abhi bhi kuch nahi bigda. Kisi Mulk ki first most priority waha ke vaashinde rahte hain....But we had explained u this before....
Btw, Prasun Da.. What is the status of Railway projects in Northeast...especially Arunachal Pradesh....

vishakh said...

Hi ]

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/04/hal-scouts-radar-partner-for-iaf.html

Which radar is this ???

AnonyMouse said...

Subs weighing more than 3000+ tons let alone 6000+ tons will compromise speed and stealth, two critical aspects to win wars, in a big way. No wonder the chinks are shy of inducting the same in their navy and very cleverly dumping them on Pakistan's yard (like they did with JF17).
To counter these slow noisy huge subs, India needs fast nuke powered hunter killer subs like Akula or Barracuda.
This will be a very big expensive mistake on part of Pakistan. This deal will curtail expenditure in more effective means of delivering nuke warheads like IRBMS and cruise missiles.
If I was a Pakistani, I'd invest this money in advanced missiles and anti missile systems. These Pakis try to ape India blindly. This is going to be their downfall.

vishakh said...

hi

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/591561410989035520/photo/1

maitri missile for navy is going ahead....

Pawan said...

Dear Prasunji,

May God bless you and we get back PoK ASAP.

I have another query little off topic about fundings by foreign NGO like Ford foundation. I was surprised to know that they even funded Kejriwal. They even fund NDTV run NGOs.

Greenpeace hardly raise any substantial issues in USA except whale hunting or campaign against SHELL which is not a US company.

In India Ford funded Teesta which hardly see any communal issues except against BJP.

Do Indian politicians really have guts to take on these so called front agents of Western Govt?. I means though BJP is trying to control them but if Congress or Kejriwal ever get opportunity, they will certainly let them loose, detrimental to National Interests of India.

Regards,

Pawan

Rajesh Mishra said...

Bose murder case is a conspiracy of the defeated Japanese Empire under and with the collusion of the victorious British Empire.

After the defeat and surrender of Japan, Bose became the most undesirable entity and a shear liability both for the British and Japan. It is the most possible and plausible theory presented in this matter. Rest everything was a eyewash. This resolves all the existing paradoxes and contradictions presented in this case. It clears the non-involvement of Stalin and Russia and also exposes the so-called letter of Nehru to Lord Attlee. It also exposes the fake British intelligence reports in this matter. It also clears the eye witness statements of the then present AHF officers. Now as I understand that nothing is going to come out of the secret archives.

prateek said...

sir , please look at the following pic.
This is a pic of an Indian navy marcos/spb/vbss sailor.I remember that when this pic 1st appeared on the net , you told your readers in a comment that this sailor is surely not from marcos..
& that marcos don't engage in these routine guard duties.

1) http://i.imgur.com/QOEJ2.jpg


now sir , please look at the following 2 pics , you'll see sailors in the same camo uniform , but they are wearing maroon berets.My ques is,are they really marcos ?If not not then from which unit do they belong ?? & what other units of IN wear maroon berets if any ?.AFAIK maroon beret is only reserved for the special forces.

2) http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/470428268-indias-chief-of-naval-staff-rk-dhowan-leaves-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QQuS21ud26zGWlJpAfq3ppmZq8A6yNEtMfAdVUwjX%2bqOCeQBHoX7PhAyInzdCkP1hA%3d%3d

3) http://ste.india.com/sites/default/files/2015/04/21/348678-dpz-21apab-13.jpg


& also sir , whats the status of the sagar prahari bal ??

Heberian said...

@ raw13

I am sure you are familiar with the game of Weiqi. This investment by China is beautiful move of the stones... for China.

Anyway, I am glad to see hope in Pakistan. Maybe the tolerance to the delicious pork dishes that the Chinese staff that will man these projects will go a long way in increasing general tolerance in Pakistan and thereby contribute to social stability.

I also have to wonder why the 2 Sharifs decided they both needed to meet King Salman suddenly.. what did they really promise in private that they could not say in public..

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HEBERIAN: LoLz! What you have to bear in mind is that RAW13 & his buddies are always high on adrenalin every Friday after listening to the ‘Khutbaa’ of their local Imam in their neighbourhood mosque, following the Friday noontime prayers. In the aftermath of such Khutbaass, sanity always goes MIA & a world of self-denial & make-belief sets in & lasts till the following day. By Sunday such folks start sobering.

Listening to the Pakistani PM’s speech in Parliament 3 days ago, one gets a feeling of déjà vu. He had made the same statements on KSA & he said in Parliament that Pakistan will always safeguard China’s national interests & that Pakistan considers China’s security as its own security. Wonder what Beijing mill make of this after witnessing Pakistan backtracking on KSA (it has so far sent only a small SSG contingent to KSA), & what ASEAN, especially those ‘brotherly Muslim member-states) will make of Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif’s pronouncements.

To PRATEEK: The ones with Berets appear to be MARCOS. SPB personnel also wear similar camouflaged outfits & are also armed with the type of weaponry shown in the 1st photo.

To RAJESH MISHRA: It is still premature to rush into conclusions & get emotional & try to create larger-than-life figures until all the data gets out from the Govt of India. And that’s because there’s anecdotal evidence to suggest that matters are not what they may have seemed in the past. For instance:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Netaji-Subhas-Chandra-Bose-wanted-ruthless-dictatorship-in-India-for-20-years/articleshow/46980513.cms

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PAWAN: VMT. As for foreign-funded NGOs, my personal belief is that an idea can only be countered by another idea. Therefore, if an NGO produces a narrative, the Govt of India should respond with a compelling counter-narrative. Similarly, whenever the INC’s ‘Yuvraj’ decided to parachute down to earth (like he did at Niyamgiri in Odisha) once in a while & issues slogans like ‘Kissan Kheti Mazdoor’, it must be effectively countered by asking what makes the Yuvraj concur with the villagers of Niyamgiri that God resides only in the hills of Niyamgiri? Isn’t God omnipresent? Then why needlessly drag God’s name to sabotage the Vedanta Group’s bauxite mining project? Similarly, why is the Yuvraj hell-bent on preserving India as an agrarian country by first uttering the words Kissan & Kheti? Doesn’t he realise that a country can only develop comprehensively when its economy is dependent more on the earnings from its manufacturing sector (through productive mazdoors) than from the agricultural sector? Isn’t this how countries became developed nations? Why can’t the INC accept the fact that today it is the turn of countries like Sri Lanka & Ethiopia to have growing agrarian economies & countries like India therefore have to do away with marginal farming & send the marginal farmers & related labourers for skills retraining programmes? Why was this not done since the early 1990s & is this the real reason why farmers continue to commit suicides? So why only the needless sloganeering & why no tangible steps are bring taken to solve the problem?

To VISHAKH: Nothing of that sort is happening. It is still very much a proposal & this is what the RM said in Parliament yesterday:

The proposal is to develop a Point Defence Missile System for the Indian Navy jointly by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) and MBDA, France. The Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) cost of the project is Rs. 600 crore.

Those are high-power radars, or gapfiller radars used for air-defence of valleys over mountainous terrain & in the highlands.

To AnonyMOUSE & KAUSTAV BHATTACHARYA: The true state of affairs is very well-explained here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdkPQtSBlUc

It explains why the Turkish investors withdrew their US$3.5 billion from Pakistan last year.

To MAYUR MANAPURE: Only new update is that Japan’s technological know-how is being sought for tunnelling through mountains & gorges.

To LACHIT: What you have to bear in mind is that RAW13 & his buddies are always high on adrenalin every Friday after listening to the ‘Khutbaa’ of their local Imam in their neighbourhood mosque, following the Friday noontime prayers. In the aftermath of such Khutbaass, sanity always goes MIA & a world of self-denial & make-belief sets in & lasts till the following day. By Sunday such folks start sobering.

To RAMAN: Will detail India’s responses in a new narrative on this very thread later today, with maps & illustrations. Total cost of the PN’s submarine procurement programme & related infrastructure developments will easily reach the US$2.5 billion figure.

To KAKU SH: From where exactly can the PN procure SSBNs? That was never on the cards.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Some outstanding news for RAW13's consumption (LoLz!):

Government of India has delivered three HAL-built Cheetal helicopters with allied equipment and spares to the Government of Islamic Republic of Afghanistan based on the agreement with India's Ministry of External Affairs. The helicopters were dispatched to Afghanistan on April 9, 2015. These helicopters were subsequently test-flown and accepted by Afghan Air Force pilots on April 15, 2015.

During Afghan President Ashraf Ghani’s official visit to India starting April 27, India, Afghanistan and Iran will formally sign a trilateral transit agreement (using Chah Bahr Port), which will also serve as a precursor to other agreements for cross-border logistics links for goods, including evacuation of mineral resources. This agreement would remove much of the technical hurdles for operationalising the US$10.8 billion iron-and-steel project at Hajigak in Bamian province of Afghanistan by a consortium of Indian steel manufacturers.

Afghanistan is also due to open a consular office in Kolkata and will accord Kolkata the ‘sister city’ status to northern Afghan town of Mazar-e-Sharif, which is famous for shrines and Islamic and Hellenistic architecture.

Heberian said...

Hello Prasun

:) absolutely agreed on every count :)

Nice discussion you shared as well... I found Raoof Hassan's comments very honest.. but lost in Maria's shrillness..

Well, from my study and work with the mainlanders, I can say this much... not much will be laid out without clear hedging and benefits.. either medium or long term.

A satrapy is what I see, at best. Time will surely tell..


Prapul said...

Although Rafale would be a good choice of carrier based MRCA for IN, Dont you think they should anticipate a quid pro quo of purchasing US aircraft, if they hope to get US help in developing INS Vishaal, especialy the EMALS Launch system.

Raman said...

Looking forward to your new narrative......

A few silly thoughts:

(1) These will obviously replace the old PN Submaries (2 old Daphane + 3 newer Agosta); so we are left to deal with 4+4 Submarines (presume maximum of 3+3 will really be out at sea)...
(2) S30 is something more to worry about....
(3) Deliveries of S30 will start only from 2020 onwards and will take another year or so to get opertionalized...so we have @ 5 + years to 'counter' them.
(4) S26...88 crew, is that not v high ?? (Kilo is 52-55; Scorpene is 45-48).
(5) How good is the quality of these Submarines ?? specially the S30 at 6000+ tonnes....guess everything will depend how quiet they are..
(6) Will the PA really hand over control of some the nukes to the PN out at sea ??
(7) Apart from PN, i think we really need to factor in the PLA Navy as it grows in the IOR....really need a more comprehensive long term strategy, rather than a knee jerk.

Vijay said...

Dear Sir

The so called Investment in Pakistan's power sector carries a HUGE rate of return that too in DOLLAR terms

Now Pakistan does not earn enough dollars ; so how will they service
this investment

So are the Chinese just fooling them

SO far just one 720 MWE Hydro power has been agreed upon

Vijay said...

Dear Sir

I want to ask a TECHNICAL question

Is it technologically possible to make PIPELINES in Mountainous
regions

Secondly as you said that Karakoram Highway is open just 5 or 6 Months a year

But one thing is clear

That Building RAILWAY lines through such mountainous terrain
is just not possible

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HEBERIAN: Here's another sober analysis:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1177577/courting-china-with-care

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIJAY: This should answer some of your queries:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1177577/courting-china-with-care

Any man-made structure over seismically active zones cannot be an enduring one. This is what happened in 2005 during the earthquake & construction is still underway to repair the damage caused. Therefore, it is evident that linking PoK to Xinjiang isn't viable in any manner. My assessment is that at some stage China will inform Pakistan that such a project is unviable & instead the overland routes have to turn westwards into Afghanistan & then enter China via either the Wakhan Corridor, or via Afghanistan & Tajikistan & thence to Xinjiang.

Pawan said...

Dear Prasunji,

Will french help India in building Nuclear reactor core for SSN?

when can we expect to see SSN operational in INS?

Don't you think security of peninsular India should be handed over to INS, i.e. either convert IA brigades in south into Marines brigades under INS or shift South India deployment of IA to Chinese border instead of raising new IA corps and recruit new marine corps consisting of 2 to 3 divisions?


Regards

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa,

1. China to deliver 50 more JF-17 Thunder fighters to Pakistan

http://radio.gov.pk/newsdetail/75997/1

2. Re the TOI URL that you provided about Netaji, I suspect that it is [as usual] paid news. TOI, Outlook, HT are known Congress sympathizers.

Take this for example. Last March Outlook runs a cover story as to how Arnab Goswami has destroyed news

https://i.imgur.com/lh6To7a.jpg

A week later Times Now places a double page ad on Outlook, featuring guess who..... Arnab Goswami


https://twitter.com/smitaprakash/status/581781916480737280/photo/1

Best Regards,

Vikram

Anonymous said...

Prasun,

I seem to be very veering around a view of Subhash Chandra Bose that the article suggests. What many folks seem unable to digest is that the Brits and Americans would have certainly tried to get their hands on him for his collaboration with the Axis powers.

Bose has been turned into our equivalent of Che Guevara -- excessively romanticised in death.

Heberian said...

Hello Prasun

Thank you, that article is very sobering and clear headed. Its voices like these that give hope that their is an extremely slim chance of sobriety prevailing in Pakistan. I just hope that Khurram and Raoof and others like them do not meet the fate of Sabeen Mahmud from the likes of raw13 or worse.

It would be nice if our neighbor would just focus on internal development rather than being the a twisted champion of the ummah.

On a different note, recently I got a gift of Yamazaki 18 year old.. and had to try it with some siu yok on the side (Malaysian style, I somehow prefer it to the Guangdong variety).

Divine!

Heberian said...

Hello again Prasun

For your discerning readers..

http://www.dawn.com/news/1177974/let-saudi-arabia-fume

RD said...

Prasunda,
As per ongoing discussions its now certain that all Chinese investments surely comes with strings attached. They invest very carefully so that every penny is worth to them. In this investment matter the Chinese have same attitude towards US,African nations,Asean,Latin America,etc & Pakistan is no exception. So after all this will it be wise to get Chinese investment in India. Also what can be made of the recent AIIB bank created in the lines of world bank where India,Japan,Vietnam & others are part of it.

raw13 said...

Prasun,

The PA units in Saudi for exercises since Jan 15 are the LCB. They are not SSG but Tier 2 special forces, equivalent to US Army rangers, same training, similar equipment, same role. They specialise in small team action, air assault, etc... If the IA feared the BAT at LoC, wait till they see these boys. All are combat proven and are there for live fire drills with Saudi SF.

Have look at the exercise pictures:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/30/pakistani-army-holding-joint-military-exercise-with-saudi-arabia/

if you zoom in on this one, you will the unit badge:

http://www.voanews.com/content/pakistan-weights-joining-saudi-coalition-in-yemen/2708122.html


I think India should deliver more of these Cheetal helicopters, they are needed. However, they are of limited use, due to the limited payload they can carry. Let hope they fair better than the HAL's other export success to Ecuador? lol

http://www.janes.com/article/48382/ecuador-loses-another-dhruv-helo-to-crash

When Taliban attack, they do it in numbers. What you should do is really deliver some of your Mil-24's. These would be handy. They will be needed for indian companies to survive in Afghanistan. We cant wait for you guys to spend billions on the mine. You will need to spend billions guarding the trucks or they will end up in our markets. Iranian already struggle to control Sistan, even with pak help (depty commander of IRG was killed near Pak border). Afghans have no love for Iranians either.
Also what do you think will happen to indians in Afghanistan, if Modi stages another Gujrat incident?


Kaku Sh said...

Sir,

What is the status of Kashmir railway and Chanab bridge?

http://zeenews.india.com/news/jammu-and-kashmir/railways-examining-alternative-route-between-katra-banihal_1580497.html

We going to wait another 10 years for Srinagar to connect with rest of India through railway?

Kaku Sh said...

raw13,

I dont want to comment, but you are totally out of reality of geopolitics and about the GREAT GAME.

But some other time.

raw13 said...

@Kaku,

This is not me but an article by Pepe Escobar. He is highly respected geo-strategist:

http://atimes.com/2015/04/pakistan-enters-the-new-silk-road/

Kaku Sh said...

raw13

rofl, seems like Pakistan's whole geostrategy and great game is fixed on this road.

When would be this corridor fully operational? 2035? 2040?

Lets say best 2030? You think "India" in all those years just hanging around here and there? And just remain in cryogenic sleep for 2 decades. Seriously?

Pakistani people and there high expectations. In which cuckoo land you living?

Kaku Sh said...

@raw13

Here some dose of realities.

http://www.sea-technology.com/features/2011/0911/east-to-india.php

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-11-19/news/56265821_1_gas-pipeline-iran-pakistan-india-proposed-pipeline

Kaku Sh said...

@raw13 Another dose of reality for you. Check the map in this news.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-04/19/c_134163562.htm

This is chinese state run newspaper. It showing GB as Indian territory. SHOCKED!!

Yes bro, even Xi ignore the Kashmir issue in this whole visit. What you expect more? More shocking news is that Pak foreign office is silent about it.

Great achievement , from USA to China.

Kaku Sh said...

@raw13 I read this type article daily, and throw in dustbin. Who doesnt have sense of realities.

And dont tell me about comment section, seems like you are new born in social media and how it works. Join a defence forum, you get another reality dose.

Kaku Sh said...

@raw13 One more reality dose for you, seems like you need lots.

Just answer a question, why Russia which already in economic crisis spend (again if you thinking as aid) $2 bn in Karachi- Lahore pipeline without any future prospect? What Russia get benefit from this? The Pakistan has that much capacity and consumption that Russia think about spending $2bn. Seriously?

Seems like, you thinking all countries around Pakistan are idiots, and only Pakistan is most intelligent country on planet earth.

Anonymous said...

@ prasun

I was really impressed with the speed with which we responded to the nepal earthquake and situation in yemen.

Is it bcz of new gov or because c17 and other new assets?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

More details on the Afghan President's forthcoming visit to India:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/04/23/uk-india-afghanistan-idUKKBN0NE2RT20150423

ak_hmr said...

Prasun sir,
It seems that once again delivery of tejas aircraft to iaf is delayed..
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/iaf-to-get-four-more-tejas-by-end-of-this-fiscal-national-aerospace-laboratories/articleshow/47053185.cms

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Excellent documentary on the world's first jet dogFights in the MIG Alley over North Korea & Manchuria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv9PzPF9aPk

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AK-HMR: That's due to HAL's production deficiencies, all of which should have been sorted during the LSP production stage itself.

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Hi Prasun,
What could be the implication of this in India?
idrw.org/nine-miltant-groups-of-ne-form-united-front-with-chinese-blessings/#more-62543

Jay Bhanushali said...

Hi prasun sir,
http://idrw.org/airbus-tata-deal-likely-to-be-approved-by-dac/

Is there any truth to this news?

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

' Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd signs MoU with MTU
Friedrichshafen, GmbH'......
Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd
(KOEL) to provide emergency diesel gensets (EDG) for
possible future requirements of Nuclear Power Plants
(NPP) in India.
koel.kirloskar.com/koel-news/mtu-friedrichshafen-gmbh

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Hi Prasun,
Does India have any "INDIGENOUS" NON-MAGNETIC ENGINES for Minesweeping Vessels?
Or they all are imported as well? Is India pursuing this tech? Any R&D related work;if any going on?
Thanks in advance.

sandip said...

hi prasun Sir
your analysis is correct , china is not intersetyed in any contentious project in Pakistan.
http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/south-asia/article/1774877/damned-if-you-do-china-avoids-involvement-pakistans-contentious?

Pawan said...

Dear Prasunji,

There must be some reasons that India doesn't use UN resolution on Kashmir because prima facie it looks like in favour to India.

Regards,
Pawan

Chethan said...

Hi Prasun,
Recently there was a news from china's government news agency stating that chengdu will handover 117 JF-17s to Pakistan. Out of that, 50 JF-17s will be delivered in 3 years i.e. by 2019 and the rest by 2022.
This is quite confusing, as Pakistan's facility at Kamra can aslo assemble the plane. Then why is it taking so much time i.e more than 7 yrs to produce 117 JF-17 when the plan of PAF was to have 250 JF-17 by 2020 i.e around 36 planes per year.

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

www.dawn.com/news/1178409/unsc-urged-to-redouble-efforts-to-resolve-conflicts

Pakistan diplomats' leave no stone unturned when they get a chance mention words "K" & "I"....at every platform of this world.She is trying subtly to point finger at the "K" issue.The Pakistani Diplomats should be called KIplomats (with a big K & I bcoz they can't see anything beyond India & Kashmir).

Jon said...

More C-17's for the IAF?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/47063979.cms

Pawan said...

Jon: Can't believe. I was opened this page to post the query as to why India not buying additional C-17 when only limited airframes have been left after production shut down. Still I wish India could have exercised option to buy 6.

Regards

Raman said...

Hi Prasun,

continuing with a few more thoughts on PN submarine procurement plans and India's answers to offset them:

(8)I presume it's a 'Direct procurement' deal...no ToT/Offsets only 'manufacturing gain's for China.

(9) IN seems to be on the right track in any case.....with 'smarter'/'quieter'/'faster' Scorpenes (at least 5, if not all 6 should be opoerational by 2020, plus hopefully 3 more on Order; and the P75I coming online by 2020); even as far as Surface ASW assets go....the 2 Aircraft Carriers should be fully operational with S70B ASW as will be all the Delhi/Kolkata/at least 2-3 of the Vizag Class Destroyers (with the old Rajput's winding down) and the Talwar/Shivalik Frigates and all 4 P28 Kamotra's...with their S-70B; A number of air assets will also be in place with 8(+4) P8I's and Do228's (and hopefully a few US-1's with ASW functions by then);

(10) Better ASW equipments on all ASW assets....better Sonars (Atlas)/better Torpedoes (seaHake ??)/Better defence ( Mareecha/Deseaver II) etc;

(11) Will not the MTCR come into play and Pm Modi take this up with the Chinese during his visit there next month ??

(12) It again boils down to Strategies/long terms-short term Plans.....

Looking forward to your 'new narrative'.....

ramD said...

Pn has currently 3 Agosta Class and 2 Daphne class (major upgrade last year) Subs. Out of the 8 new ones, 4 are reported, will be made in Pakistan. With these and their long range battery of antiship missiles on land they willbe able to cut oil supplies ti ondia.

Anonymous said...

Arab point of view on pak position on yemen:

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20150426241650

Anonymous said...

funny comments

http://www.dawn.com/news/1178113/pakistanis-happier-than-indians-says-un-report

Pintu said...

Anon @ 7.48 PM, I can not understand why people jump over & waste their precious time on a trash index which place 'Nigeria' over 'Philippines', 'Pakistan' over 'Portugal', 'Mexico' over 'Luxemburg', 'Columbia' over 'Japan'.

Prav said...

Prasun Sir
What is the policy of allowing private shipyards to build military vessels for export ? Apparently the PSU shipyards have their order books full with navy and coast guard orders.

lachit said...

@prasun
paki conspiracy theory on nepal earthquake.fruits of madressa education. LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqZqskTaeJo&feature=player_embedded

warning:viewer discretion is advised or u might suffer BRAIN trauma.

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Looks like DRDO QRSAM is
entering fabrication....
www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=10216

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Hi Prasun,
Just out of curiosity want to ask that,Can HAL's HTFE-25 could be,in the future used as a Propulsion system for Marine domain in Civilian/Defence vessels (For small-medium sized boats etc.)?
What do u think? What's ur take on it?
Thanks in Advance.

Kaku Sh said...

Sir,

Why the govt. has so much secrecy over NTRO. Did we know anything about NTRO's operation, and actually what they doing?

They doing simple analysis work, or they have ground asset too?

I read the wiki page, that NTRO is accused of breaking NIC database, tapping over 7.5 lakh telephone.

What the hell they actually doing?

Anonymous said...

@pradun ji
First time posting on our blog
Sir how viable is the option of enabling Vietnam in every front just like China is doing with pak.
As far as I can read Chinese mindset they tend to react overtly on someone helping Vietnam, its like stepping on dragons tail kind of reaction from them.
Chinese want to safeguard there front as long as they could and meanwhile make inroads in enemy territory.

I am not a ex defence personnel but have interest in strategic analysis...pls omit my comment if its out of context

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon^^^: Read the vlinks below & you will have a good understanding of what's happening in the region. The Vietnamese are resilient & brainy enough to figure out their own national security interests & are being actively aided by Russia, the US & Japan.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/ashraf-ghani-india-visit-changed-variables-same-equation/article7143735.ece?homepage=true

http://www.thehindu.com/news/slew-of-pacts-under-discussion-ahead-of-ghani-visit/article7131002.ece

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/afghanistan-unhappy-over-delay-in-supply-of-arms-from-india/article6648833.ece

http://www.lawfareblog.com/2015/04/the-foreign-policy-essay-explaining-pakistans-self-defeating-afghanistan-policy/

To KAKU SH: The NTRO's mandate is to use SIGINT/ELINT assets ONLY (no HUMINT) to keep tabs around India's immediate & extended neighbourhoods.

To BISWAJIT PATTANAIK: HTFE-25 can also be used for powering hovercraft-type ampgibious vessels.

To LACHIT: As usual they thrive upon conspiracy theories. Till this day the majority of Pakistanis believe that the guy killed in Abbotabad wasn't OBL, despite his whole fasmily being present there during the shootout. No use trying to reason with such morons.

To PRAV: Private-sector shipyards too need to be given contracts for fabricating vessels for IN & ICGS. Some of them already have executed such contracts. Without these contracts, the shipyards won't be experienced enough to bid for export orders.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAMD: Cutting off oil supplies is only possible if the merchant marine convoys are not escorted by warships. If escorts are available, then interdiction of sea lanes of communications by SSKs is impossible.

To CHETHAN: PAC Kamra can only assemble the JF-17s from semi-knocked-down kits. All manufacturing is done by CAC in Chengdu. CAC's first objective is to deliver J-10Bs to the PLAAF. JF-17 production comes second in priority. I have several photos of JF-17s being shipped out of Chengdu on board PAF IL-78MKPs that ferry such kits to Kamra for final assembly. Till today, NOTHING from raw material stage is being manufactured in Kamra for the JF-17.

To PAWAN: There's a time & place for initiating action on this front. That time has not yet come. It is always best to strike at the iron when it is red-hot.

To SANDIP: You will find this even more interesting:

http://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/1750377/passive-investor-partner-crime-how-china-lost-plot-sri-lanka?utm_content=bufferd5546&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

lachit said...

@prasun
u have knowledge about many matters
i want to know ur opinion on the hindu Marriage Law (Amendment) Bill.
as far as i understand this bill has the potential to destroy indian family structure and have a large indirect effect on increasing crime rate,loopsided demography,slow down economy via savings,increase conversion,overburden courts,brain drain etc.
in effect slowly but surely destroy the country.

china had passed a similiar law but changed it when they saw the serious side effects and its missuse.

Anonymous said...

After a short break for presumably earthquake related sensitivities, the "esteemed" Shukla-ji has crawled out of his den again to spew poison

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2015/04/dassault-rapped-for-poor-ethical-and.html

Anonymous said...

The submarine looks a lot like the kilo class subs, but it wouldn't be surprising if the Chinese are selling home made kilos to other countries since they have done that with a lot of Russian weaponry. But the issue is, can a conventionally powered submarine produce enough power to launch a SLBM? If yes, why haven't the Russians tried it before? They are quite proficient in building conventional subs and they are cheaper and less complex than nuclear powered subs.

Jon said...

Finally!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Trials-a-hit-desi-Bofors-outguns-Swedish-original/articleshow/47076413.cms

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

i was expecting replies for the questions i asked in this thread previuoly, btw a few more questions

1. You say IAF doesnt need the C17, but a talks have started for 3 more out of 5 available since Boeing has closed the line, but only 3 and all 5

2. You say said in previous thread that ship size are increasing as we dont know how to use composites, just learnt GRSE is building Kamorta using composites from Kokums, then why MDL didnt use them in Kolkata/Visakhapatnam class

3. the earthquake in nepal where India is playing a exemplary role is being seen by some as ground for either increase their strangle hold or creating a platform for countering China, Why & How India can ever use Nepal to counter China

4. The AFT had struck down the proposal for swift promotion to colonel ranks in combat units but slow in non combat units, unfortunately RM Parrikar has appealed against it in Supreme Court, dont you think this is clear discrimination that will disturb the structure of IA

5. Just learnt the INSAS is being withdrwn from service with CAPF who will be given AK47s due to its no performance, but now i hear CAPFs will be provided with Ghatak rifles, isnt the Ghatak a derivative of INSAS

6. GTRE and Klimov agree to develop Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring Nozzle, whats it meant for?

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Jon said...

China dictating Pakistan's foreign policy?

http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/pakistans-neutrality-in-the-yemen-crisis-brought-to-you-by-china/

raw13 said...

@lachit

dont you think india needs some sore of family planning law?

How else do you address the massive numbers being added each year? That number for india must be huge.

How will you deal with the gender imbalance?

F said...

Prasun,

What is an electronic surveillance ''payload'' system and and how does it enhance ones EW capabilities?

Or is it just a fancy term for an ESM?



Raman said...

Just another silly question please............

What do you do when see a lump of doggiedo at your doorstep ???

You are unlikely to step into it......as that would mess up your shoe/cause a stink/spread it.........

What you are most likely to do is to just ignore it and let it just dry out, crack up, wither and eventually get blown away with the winds of time............

samajnewalle samaj gaye.....

Lolzzz

lachit said...

@raw13

once u suggested that i take lessons in comprehension.
now it looks like u need it .
u dont even read the post properly or try to understand what the subject matter is.
but none the less butt in with idiotic and clueless comments/suggestion.

the new amendment to the hindu marriage act provides draconian powers to the wives which they can use with impunity. infact it violates the fundamental rights ie equality irrespective of gender etc .china had a similiar law but they withdrew it when wives started missusing it.

eg the amir khan of satyameva jayata talks about it.but convieniently forgets that he divorced his first wife real easy and by paying just 40 lakhs that is about .00001 % of his total worth.
(advantage of being a muslim)
but he wants indians(implied hindus) to pay 50 % of their money + 50% of ancestrel property even if the wife is in the fault.
together with arnab goswami and the like they have made the peddling of common peoples misery (by mixing it with genuine issues to mislead people) into a profitable business.






SOUBHAGYA said...

Dear Prasun,

Once I asked you about INSAS family rifles. You told that they evolved as world class rifles of its contemporary. But why then CAPF want to replace it with AK - 47, citing that it is the cause for no. of deaths of its own force due to malfunction??? Moreover, Nepalese army also told that INSAS is the reason for no. of fatalities during war with Maoists. Is there any conspiracy behind the scene??? May be it is a bad rifle.

raw13 said...

@lachit,

off course i dont know much about hindu laws in india. but it is an opportunity to learn and thanks for the explanation.

this policy may actually improve the quality of life of women in ur country and may actually fight the dawri system. If your women had more rights, maybe the families will start having few more girls and the gender imbalance may correct itself.

lachit said...

@raw13
sarcasm huh

worry about ur own pakistani women and girls.when in pakistan the testimony of 4 men who witnessed a rape live is required to convict a rapist in ur courts,
i wonder ......................

Jon said...

Interesting but old video video about dhanush 155mm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw9O_xtG8Po

Heberian said...

An article of interest... a look at China's approach to the silent service.

We should contrast this to our approach to the submarine service, like in many other things.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/copycat-germanys-fearsome-submarine-past-chinas-future-12746

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

@raw13 April 28, 2015 at 12:52 PM
" India helping vietnam is a big joke. How much
investment can india do there, 40Billion RUPEES? What
is india know for (otherthan corruption/ family
dynasties), building anything, producing anything, any
technology?"
Have u heard about Greaves Cotton,Tata Cummins,Mahindra Powerol,Cooper Inc,KOEL,LeyPower if u haven't heard they all r world class Light-Medium-Heavy DG Sets manufacturer.Now u may know them(d follwing 1s)....Bajaj Auto,TVS Auto,Tata Motors,ALL, (i can't seem to find any PAK entity here...oh wait they aren't of this calibre)..
Heavy COM Sats,transpoders for sats,Solar Panels,Wind Turbines,Thorium Nuclear Reactors,etc..etc... all r manufactured here.....What abt u guys.
Your's country is the 1st country in d world which call itselfs a nuclear power but apparently doesn't have single Indigenous nuclear reactor(with ur own IP/IPRs) that tells a lot abt ur country's ability.Every country in this world which is a nuclear power have their own civilian nuclear industry,which in short indicates that these countries spend a lot on R&D on nuclear tech for varied purpose.Just try to ponder sometime on this issue wrt ur countrt.As for what is India providing to Vietnam is concerned,we have given them PARAM SuperComputer to Hanoi University of Science and
Technology, Vietnam(link en.hust.edu.vn/home?p_p_id=77&p_p_lifecycle=0&p_p_state=maximized&p_p_mode=view&_77_struts_action=%2Fjournal_content_search%2Fsearch),plus the Bhabhatron Telecobalt Machine to Vietnam under d IAEA's Programme on Action for Cancer
Therapy (PACT) & many more such crtical high-tech machinery.India's epertise lies in capacity building,HR Development,knolwedge based devlopments etc....these r just few drop's of India's capabilities.....

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

@raw13
How to Recognize and Avoid Brainwashing:
www.wikihow.com/Recognize-and-Avoid-Brainwashing
Some of the achievenments of PAK:
1) www.sundaytimes.lk/110213/Timestwo/t2_13.html
2) www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196909/Inside-Pakistani-school-children-brainwashed-terrorists-John-Humphrys.html
3)www.rediff.com/news/report/even-children-are-being-brainwashed-in-pakistan/20110406.htm
4) https://www.youtube.com/view_comment?v=o9il-j5ON1I&gl=IN&hl=en&client=mv-google
5) www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/04/to-be-a-woman-in-pakistan-six-stories-of-abuse-shame-and-survival/255585/
6) www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/06/14/comment/editors-mail/women-oppression/
7) tribune.com.pk/story/584098/women-pakistans-second-class-citizens/
8) www.realcourage.org/2009/10/world-gender-gap-worst-in-islamic-nations/
9) www.dawn.com/news/1146476/42-acid-attacks-in-punjab-victims-await-justice
10) www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-17676542
11) www.voanews.com/a/practice-of-punishing-with-acid-attacks-persists-in-pakistan/1855836.html
12) www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/acid-attacks-rise-pakistan-women-5580535
Go through those above articles u will feel....(i can't really tell what will u b feeling)

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Israeli Heron-1 and Hermes 900 UAVs to receive
ATOL capability....
www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israeli-heron-1-and-hermes-900-uavs-to-receive-atol-411628/

Prav said...

@Prasun
Ca you shed light on this story ?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/make-in-india-bharat-forge-punj-lloyd-in-race-for-rs-16800-crore-contract-to-make-anti-aircraft-guns/articleshow/47090053.cms

Who are the foreign partners of these 2 companies? Is it possible to keep ARDE and OFB out of the loop for this one ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HEBERIAN: VMT. As one good deed deserves another, do have a look at this facinating news-report in CBS 60 Minutes on the space war between the US & China, starting from 15:01:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2BAg_Ctt1s&hd=1

Also, do read this:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/04/us-plans-at-sea-railgun-tests-in-summer.html

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRAV: Punj Lloyd is offering a Serbia-made clone of the ZU-23-2 bfrom Yugoimport SPDR, while Kalyani Group is offering a version of the Typhoon from RAFAEL, which uses Rheinmetall's 30mm gun (the same used in the Millenium system which India had earlier blacklisted just because it was being offered directly by Rheinmetall).

To RAW13: Plenty of good photos of the Afghan President's state visit to India & his talks with the Indian PM & Indian Defence Minister, all of which will surely make your blood boil:

http://pibphoto.nic.in/photo/2015/Apr/l2015042864774.jpg

http://pibphoto.nic.in/photo/2015/Apr/l2015042864760.jpg

http://pibphoto.nic.in/photo/2015/Apr/l2015042864759.jpg

http://pibphoto.nic.in/photo/2015/Apr/l2015042864781.jpg

And here's the joint statement of the two leaders after delegation-level talks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFcjeXAG7f4&hd=1

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SOUBHAGYA: The INSAS 5.56mm assault rifle is meant for wounding enemy soldiers & is not meant to kill soldiers. The 7.62mm assault rifles on the other hand are meant to kill their targets. That's what it boils down to. It does not therefore mean that the INSAS is an inferior weapon.

Siddharth said...

Prasun da,

A naive question. You said INSAS Rifle meant for wounding enemy soldiers instead killing the soldiers.

US M4 and M16 are also 5.56x45 mm chambered. Are they in same league of INSAS rifle.

Many defence personnel doesn't appreciate INSAS performance in the battle field - can jam anytime, magazine broken, high maintenance.

SOUBHAGYA said...

Dear Prasun,

I had idea about INSAS even earlier i.e. it is meant for wounding the enemy. Even CAPF personnel must be aware of its usage. If I feel hungry, then I will take food not drink water; again if I am thirsty I will search for water not dry bread. I don't understand why the bloody plan makers don't understand this. Can't they decide whether to go for kill or to wound. If the want to kill they can have AK 47. Why so much hatred towards INSAS??? It is really absurd for MoHA making stupid stmt. that INSAS are faulty. Rather decision making is faulty.

rad said...

HI prasun
I had accidentally mis posted on the previous page.Please clarify the foll
the r-73 does not have a 2 color IIR seeker like the python-5, i feel it is a generation behind .It seems the r-74 has it, please give dope on the r-74.
You rightly pointed out the buoyancy problem on firing slbm from the expected pak sub. the missiles can weigh more than 15% of the sub weigh and the sudden weight loss can make it pop tot eh surface. What is the procedure when subs fire slbm?. do they take on more ballast water after every firing?. This applies to our own sub as well , how are we coping with it.
The dhanush 155 mm 45 cal gun has passed all trials. how much is true? what is the actual desi percentage?. The production capacity ios woe fully low , what is the solution .can we make the same gun by bharat forge etc to ramp up production like they do in the US?.
The proposal to make the maitri sam seems on the offing can we afford it? why duplication of ability?.
recently a drdo official stated the israeli had promised more than they could achieve so the delay in the barak 8 true?.
is the Visby class stealth corvette applicable in indian war scenario?


Raman said...


Hi Prasun,

With 2 high profile visits (French Defence Miniter in May and US A Carter on 2/3rd June).......to you hope that finally some deals will finally be signed or again only discussions etc will take place...

Apart from the Rafale/Apache/Chinook....any action on the MRTT or F125 ??

By when do you think we would close the S70B order ?? (or like the US-1 it will take a couple of years ??)

raw13 said...

Hi Prasun,

I am not a zero-sum type of person :-). It is good to see the pics and i hope you guys invest many more billions in afghanistan, (we still have between 3-5million afghans, if things improve they will go back) it will also benefit us.

Have a read of this:

http://atimes.com/2015/04/foreign-devils-on-the-silk-road-to-gwadar/



raw13 said...

@BP

I wasnt comparing india v pak. but india v china. I hope this has calming affect.

What motors is tata producing? I wasnt aware of some engine patent that india has comeup with. or are you talking about jaguar land rover? that is has indian as taj mahal is british ;-).


@herbjan,
Off chinese sub tech has gone through huge improvements. In the last 10yrs PN submariner's have completely changed their mind on how good chinese subs are.

Today their subs are on par with german one (though engines are still german) but what is scary for you guys is the number of improvements they are working on in Parallel. PN is planning to have 15-18 subs. Happy Hunting :-)

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

@raw13
Majority of ur articles r from ASIA TIMES & M.K. Bhadrakumar.Don't u have any other credible sources? It only indicates that u want to see & belive in what u want but not the real truth.
If India is indeed targetting the Chinese then its all good bcoz there r also fomenting India's NE & helping those terrorists groups from those regions.Its what u called REALPOLITIK.Its only fair what is India doing.

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

@raw13
Apparentlty u guys take solace from achievements of countries who r competing or r the neighbor of India.Thats' bcoz u guys can't compete with us PERIOD.

" What motors is tata producing? I wasnt aware of some
engine patent that india has comeup with. or are you
talking about jaguar land rover? that is has indian as
taj mahal is british ;-)."
Man u r one hell of an ignorant homo sapien.And what is TML producing? If u don't no this then i hav nothing to say t u.
" I wasnt aware of some
engine patent that india has comeup"
I'm not talking abt only powertrain related patent mr its whole gamut which i"m saying.
U want some links about India's R&D Capability look down the following articles...
1)thomsonreuters.com/en/press-releases/2014/thomson-reuters-analysis-identifies-hi-tech-engineering-and-pharma-companies-as-front-runners-of-innovation-in-india.html
2) www.financialexpress.com/article/pharma/latest-updates/biocon-sun-pharma-awarded-for-innovation/20667/
3) The World’s Leading Nations for Innovation and
Technology: www.citylab.com/tech/2011/10/worlds-leading-nations-innovation-and-technology/224/
4) www.wipo.int/ipstats/en/statistics/patents/wipo_pub_931.html
" or are you
talking about jaguar land rover?"
Apparently ur "IRON BOTHERS" can't have enough of JLRs models that they had already copies by half dozen Chinese automobile companies.U better ask ur 'Iron Brother' about those thing bcoz they r also acquiring such entities frm abroad. And btw to acquire those entities u need 2 have solid cheque book,good managing abilties,global recognition & world class abilities.

raw13 said...

Something non-political, bit of out history:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1177325/kot-diji-fort-a-symbol-of-the-talpur-dynasty

@BP, I read a lot, from Pak papers like express tribune, dawn to The Economist (uk), even sometimes blogs like Broadsword. However, why I like asia times? it is one of the few, truly independent sources out there, (they also report a lot from catham house)with some of the best free thinkers. These thinkers are recognized as such, throughout the world and are specialists in their areas of expertise. Most have spent their entire life's doing what they talk about.

Most importantly they are free of the shackles of trying to support one country over another, one party over the other.

Ps. It seems even your forces have gone down the route of castism. Its in the genes I guess?

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

@raw13
They r not free from shackles,any sane person reading their article can sense where there interests lies.

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Hi Prasun,
1)Which Anti-aircraft gun is better between the Punj Lloyd's(a Serbia-made clone of
the ZU-23-2 bfrom Yugoimport SPDR) and
Kalyani
Group's (offering a version of the Typhoon from
RAFAEL, which uses Rheinmetall's 30mm gun) [as u have pointed above to PRAV]?
2)Which one according to u is going to win the contract in the end?
Why on earth isn't DRDO-ARDE coming up with a family of gun & artillery systems for our forces which would include armaments for Naval vessels,Army's Infantry & Combat vehicles,Airforces' jets guns etc..etc... ?

SK said...

Prasun,

1. What is this going on? Since when has Scorpion come into IJT competition? Have they seen its price?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/us-defence-secretary-s-maiden-india-trip-to-focus-on-key-deals/article1-1342006.aspx

2. The price of NUH seems to be 20 million per piece whereas these helos were being sold for $ 3-4 mn USD. What justifies this sudden hike? Local production? Is there any corruption involved?

Thanks

vishakh said...

Hi

AHEAD Rounds which are part of Sky SHeild would be part of offering by Kalyani anti air Craft Gun ??

This round is 35mm compatible but Kalyabi is oferring 30mm caliber guns??

What is range of these guns??


Would these be stand alone or On truck /BMP2 vehicle ??

raw13 said...

@ Prasun,

more positives from Ghani visit:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/Taliban-no-longer-primary-challenge-in-Afghanistan-Ghani/articleshow/47096062.cms

Heberian said...

Thank you very much Prasun, thta was good reading ! More light on how far behind we really are :(

@raw13 : Thank you for pointing that out. I was not alluding to sub-technology of China, I was talking about the intellectual approach that the Chinese have. Not just the engines, but the AIP, the weapons.. none of that is Chinese. But that does not matter.. the intellectual discussions that is going on in China about submarines (and many other facets of military/ economy/development) is what I really am jealous about.

Neither India nor Pakistan has such depth or breadth of philosophy in our approach. Thats the south Asian attitude in us " whatever we say is right, and we are ostriches with our heads in the sand". Goes to prove that Pakistanis are also pure south Asian and not from the central plains of Asia or the Arab sands :)

Jon said...

Proof of the pudding is in the eating. Only time will tell what Pakistan's intent and capability is when it comes to reigning in the Taliban on its side of the border.

What people in India are saying to Ghani is beware, Pakistan has played this game with us many times before.
Remember when Vajpayee was in Lahore, PA was in the process of executing Kargil!

If Pakistan has truly had a change of heart regards Afganistan then so be it. But it will not be able to dictate terms to the Afgan govt that much is certain.
Read this interview:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/breakfast-in-delhi-lunch-in-peshawar-and-dinner-in-kabul-thats-the-world-we-seek-afghan-president-ashraf-ghani/542673-2.html

Jon said...

More on Afghanistan

http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/taliban-onslaught-what-is-happening-in-afghanistan/

Kaku Sh said...

Sir,

whats the status of MCIWS?

Indian Army or CAPF planning any user trials?

raw13 said...

@Jon,

Thank you for sharing this, especially the CNN thing. I too hope something is worked out.

Do you think india and indians will change? the Indian kept asking the same question, even after Ghani said, for these things you need strategic patience.

I loved this part:

Ashraf Ghani: We have probably about 8 cadets in Pakistan, we have over 600 in India. As a great power, why are you so insecure?

CNN-IBN: You think we are insecure?

Ashraf Ghani: You are. These questions are marks of insecurity.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JON: The devil always lurks within the detail. For instance, why is the Afghan President talking only about Delhi & Kabul (national capitals) when explaining regional connectivities? Why did he mention Peshawar & not Islamabad? Is it because no Afghan President will ever recognise the sanctity of the defunct Durand Line & will instead keep insisting that the northwest frontier province (KPK) of Pakistan & FATA should naturally be part of the pakhtunistan province of an united Afghanistan? If this were to be the case, then will Pakistan's natural borders with Afghanistan be along the Jhelum River?

Also to be noted is the President's emphasis on Afghanistan's 5,000 year-old civilisational existence, even though Afghanistan as a country defined by territorial frontiers emerged in only 1747 under Ahmed Shah Abdali. Is he therefore stating that Afghans enjoy a higher evolved status than the Pakistanis, who claim that their history began only 1,000 years ago with the Arab invasion of Sindh?

It can therefore only be concluded from his statements that he is giving two tight slaps on Pakistan's cheeks with a smiling face.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HEBERIAN: Things in reality are not what they seem. Yes, the Chinese diligently study technological progress made by the West & Russia, but so do others. Only difference is one doesn't get to read about what others like India are doing. In many ways, the IN is way ahead of the PLAN in the arenas of undersea warfare & carrier-based naval aviation & even network-centric warfare. For instance, the PLAN still craves for single-hulled SSKs, whereas the IN acquired its first-generation single-hulled SSKs Class 209/Type 1500) in the 1980s, & is now acquiring second-generation Scorpene SSKs. But more about all this in the next thread, which will detail India's 'String of Pearls' in which India, the US, Japan & Australia all have principal roles to play & will be joined in future by Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia & Indonesia. One has to connect the dots, like the US SECDEF Ashton Carter's arrival in India this June, instead of May; the statements of ASEAN Defence Ministers last March in Langkawi; Indian Defence Minister's visit to Japan last March; India's official announcement of plans to acquire 6 SSNs; & India's leasing of Agalela Island in Mauritius & Assumption Island of The Seychelles. Only then can the big picture be viewed in totality.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VISHAKH: The Kalyani offer is for the 35mm gun firing AHEAD rounds. The gun will be supplied by Rheinmetal to RAFAEL which will then mount it on a turret & integrate it with a turret-mounted fire-control system. That's how the Typhoon will emerge.

To SK: The Scprion hardly qualifies as an IJT. It is more like a ground-attack aircraft meant for countries with fledgling air forces, like those of Afghanistan & Iraq. Here's the product data-sheet:

http://www.scorpionjet.com/files/TAL-2014-OVERVIEW-LITHO.pdf

Therefore, the 'desi' news-reporter has clearly gotten confused & hence is spewing out utter rubbish.

As for the NUH, the reqmt you've quoted is for twin-engined armed helicopters, which will typically have an acquisition cost of US$10 million with all specified mission avionics & structural fitments. It makes sense to go for the Dhruv Mk4 ALH with folding main rotor-blades & folding tail-section, provided HAL can install conformal fuel-tanks to increase flight endurance.

There is another NUH reqmt for single-engined helicopters that will be used for flying training & executive transport. For this reqmt, HAL's LUH with folding main rotor-blades will be procured.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAMAN: Most of your queries regarding regional naval balance-of-power & undersea warfare will be answered in the forthcoming new thread, which I plan to upload by May 1, 2015.

To FARIS: ESM payload includes ELINT, SIGINT & optronic sensors for IMINT. ESM payload is therefore a generic term.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SIDDHARTH: M-4 is a carbine while M-16 is an assault rifle. The INSAS family includes both carbines & assault rifles. Carbines are for short-range engagements requiring rapid-fire capability, i.e. for staging ambushes or fighting ones way out of ambushes, typically in jungles or mountains. For assault-rifles it is exactly the opposite.

To SOUBHAGYA: Choice of the optimum firearm depends on the type of battle to be fought, which in turn is dictated by the type of terrain & geography over which the battles are to be fought, as I have explained above. During COIN operations in Chattisgarh, for instance, the choice is for weapons for shoot-to-kill operations. Hence the preference for AK-47s. On the other hand, for staging ambushes, the preference is for TAVOR & the carbine version of INSAS--both equipped with telescopic sights & night-vision sights.

Heberian said...

Hello Prasun, thank you. I concur.

I was referring more to our grandiose announcements like the ones about ABM defences for Delhi and so on.

Prav said...

@Prasun sir
I don't understand the need for this tender for what is effect a foreign design that will be licence produced here . Surely this is a low hanging fruit that can be developed locally .

Looking forward to you write on the naval situation .
Counld you please go into detail of this so called 90 ship navy that appears time to time in the media .
90 ships of the destroyer and frigate class (and higher) the Indian navy counting current as well as under construction while even counting ships that have only been approved for construction does not exceed 48. What exactly is the navy build program over the next 20 years ?

Anonymous said...

Which one is better and efficient? Single-hulled or double hulled? What are the advantage each one? I had a feeling that double hulled submarines are better.

If I remember correctly US still have single hulled submarines. Why does US stick with single hulled submarines?

RaviN

Jon said...

Is this report accurate?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/armys-fleet-of-arjun-tanks-face-technical-issues-major-proportion-of-124-tanks-in-service-not-operational/articleshow/47103764.cms

Must say i missed the Peshawar reference in the Ghani interview completely. Nothing escapes your sharp eyes!

Ved said...

There is still no news as per me regarding the torpedos which will onboard the Scorpenes. PN already has seahakemod4. In you earlier reply you said that Black Shark torpedo will be on board the Scorpenes. Will the PN have an edge in underwater warfare?

Ved said...

Further with the 209 now armed with Harpoon, it has become a formidable sub.
When can we expect a SSN to be operational?

sujoymajumdar said...

For those in India who believe that Jews are not as racist as Arabs

http://www.firstpost.com/world/nepal-israel-evacuates-surrogate-babies-leaves-mothers-behind-including-indians-2219798.html

raw13 said...

@Prasun,

What do you make of this?

http://www.eurasiareview.com/29042015-india-should-rethink-its-afghan-policy-analysis/

vishakh said...

Hi

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/france-qatar-seal-6-3-billion-euro-rafale-fighter-jet-deal/articleshow/47106992.cms

Its now raining orders for rafale .... :)

As per the order 24 places are 7.02 billion then indian order for 36 planes will be 9 Billion ??

dudeLand said...

@raw13
The height of insecurity is that cnn - india editted out that part from ghani interview video"why are you so insecure".
I bet in near future, this remark will also be editted out from the transcript of the interview.
@raw13 why do you bother?...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VISHAKH: Here's the official statement:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2015/04/CP_EN_Rafale-Qatar.pdf

There's no mention of any acquisition cost. Therefore, all figures floating around are speculative. This now paves the wat ahead for Egypt, India & Qatar to form a 'Rafale Club', just like the 'Scorpene Club' between Chile, India & Malaysia.

To RAW13: That report was evidently drafted BEFORE the commencement of President Ghani's visit & hence all its opinions & conclusions have since been proven wrong by the subsequent joint statements read out by President Ghani & PM Modi.

To VED: With each passing day, the Black Shark gets closer to being ordered. Sea Hake can't be ordered now since the SUBTICS combat management systems (CMS) have already started being installed inside the Scorpenes' hulls & this in turn rules out any modification of the SUBTICS to suit the Sea Hake.

SSNs for the IN will be delivered only in the following decade.

To JON: It is correct & has been so for the past 2 years. The IA has been asking for far too long for the MoD's Dept of Defence Production to establish a vectronics repair & overhaul depot in northwestern India so that elements of the DFCS can be serviced there. IA has also been asking for a spares storage warehouse to be established at the same proposed location, so that spares would not be required to be ordered all the way down from Avadi. But it is the MoD's Dept of Defence Production that's to be blamed for lack of product-support, & no one else.

The 'desi' news-reporter who has drafted this story should have taken the trouble to place the matter in context & explain all that I have done above, so that readers would get the right picture. But that has not been the case, as always.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAVIN: Single-hulled submarines are obviously lighter & therefore offer less hydrodynamic drag & this in turn results in lesser fuel consumption & consequently, greater endurance, especially for SSKs. Only those countries that have not yet succeeded in miniaturising their on-board ballast tanks & related pumps resort to mounting them outside the inner hull & cover them up with the outer hull.

To PRAV: It's not that easy to develop such weapon systems in-house. Even Rheinmetall/Oerlikon Contraves took more than 10 years to develop the Millenium system & its ammo. Therefore, by no means do they constitute low-hanging fruits.

As for naval fleet inventory numbers, it is always best to break them down into principal surface combatants, submarines, support vessels & auxiliaries. Bunching them all together creates confusion, as is now the case.

Prav said...

Thank you for explaining .
But the fleet number a whole is supposed to be 160 ships with 90 "principle" combatants.

Prav said...

Also .. What is design of the Indian navies SSN .. Will it be 6000+tons derivative of the Arihant as speculated.Or the scorpene derivative as you have stated . Or both with the heavier being SSGNs with VLS tubes.

Jay Bhanushali said...

Indian navy 2030. rough estimate of the fleet structure-

03 aircraft carries
Ins vikramaditya
Ins vikrant
Ins vishal

04 helicopter carriers
juan carlos class (most probably)

10 destroyers
03 delhi class
03 kolkata class
04 vishakhapat class

23 frigates
03 bhramaputra class
10 Talwar class
03 Shivalik class
07 17a class

12 asw corvettes
kamorta class and its follow-on

20 corvettes
16 next gen
04 kora class

06 missile boat
(Next gen)

24 Mine countermeasure vessels
(Next gen)

09 offshore patrol vessels
Saryu class (very conservative number)

10 Landing craft utility
03 shardul class
02 Magar class
05 (Next gen) polish kumbhir class replacement

10 landing craft tankers(might be higher)

131 surface ships

30 Submarines

03 ssbn (starting 2024 every 3 yrs)
03 ssgn (hopefully by 2021)
06 ssn (starting 2022 every 2 yrs)
18 ssk (if follow on order for both project 75 and 75i are placed without delay)

09 LARGE FLEET SUPPORT SHIPS
05 (Next gen)
02 Deepak class
01 ins jyoti
01 ins aditya

* the estimate is based on orders currently placed and rfp already issued and acquisition plans already declared in the indian press by the indian navy or mod or dac.
* i have only taken into account vessels larger than 500 metric tons for this estimation.
* This estimate is based on the assumption that the indian navy will retire all vessels which are older than 30 years and all new ships ordered are delivered with maximum margin of delay of 3 years.
*Also the submarine estimate is the best case scenario and a realistic estimate would be around 24 subs.
*if this works out,and i am cautiously optimistic that it will, then the indian navy will be be second only to the the united states navy in terms of operational capability and power projection in the indo-pacific by 2030.
* i also feel this is not an overly ambitious target for the indian navy and can be achieved as the indian economy will be anything between $10 +or- 2 trillion in nomina

Prav said...

I am sorry about the repeated questions.
Do you see the expanded uranium enrichment facilities in the country as an indication of increased enrichment in Indias naval reactors.

Jay Bhanushali said...

Continued...... Nominal gdp depending on how well or poorly our economy performs.
*The chinese will never be able to match the combined naval strength of india,japan,usa as these countries cooperate ever so closely to balance China's aggressive expansion on the naval front.

Prasun sir,
please feel free to delete this post if you think it's highly speculative or inaccurate or both

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRAV: Even with JAY BHANUSHALI’s breakdown above, the figure of 90 principal combatants can’t be reached if one takes into account the number of warships destined for decommissioning. SSNs will all be single-hulled. S-2/Arihant is double-hulled & will eventually morphe into an SSGN, just as the follow-on S-3 & S-4 boats will. Uranium enrichment is presently being undertaken exclusively for powering the S-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 submarines.

To JAY BHANUSHALI: At most, only 8 ASW corvettes of the P-28-class will be ordered, along with 12 NGMVs for anti-ship strike, 16 SW-ASW vessels & 12 MCMVs. Coming to submarines, the fleet composition will eventually be 3 SSGNs, 3 SSBNs, nine SSNs & 6 SSKs. The number of autonomous underwater vessels for mine-neutralisation & submarine-tracking will go up substantially. In addition, the inventories of MALE-UAVs & HALE-UAVs too will undergo a quantum increase in size—something the PLAN lacks even till this day.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Watch these:

57-story skyscraper built in 19 days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4TkwdsWF4M

30-storey skyscraper built in 15 days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdpf-MQM9vY

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

ISRO's annual report:

http://www.isro.org/sites/default/files/pdf/AR2014-15.pdf

ISRO's Woes:

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754899&tabId=13&contentId=18747455&BV_ID=@@@

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Pakistan is all set to approach five countries and the UN to seek extradition of top Baloch insurgents accused of fomenting unrest in Balochistan which has been in the throes of a low-profile separatist insurgency since 2006. Pakistan’s security agencies have identified 161 training camps of Baloch insurgents, nearly two dozen of them are believed to be located in Afghanistan and two in Iran. Dr Allah Nazar, Hyrbyair Marri, Brahumdagh Bugti, Javed Mengal and some other wanted insurgents are commanding their fighters in the province. Hyrbyair Marri, the head of the Baloch Liberation Army (BLA), has been living in self-exile in the UK where he has been granted political asylum. The BLA has been responsible for most violence in Balochistan. Brahumdagh Bugti, the founder of the Baloch Republican Army (BRA), has been living in Switzerland seeking political asylum.
-------------------------------------

All this is quite surprising! Not even one of them is inside India or is travelling with the help of Indian Passports? All of them have armed wings operating out of the territories of 'brotherly' Muslim neighbours of Pakistan? What kind of 'barader-like' attitude is this? Mooh mein Allah aur bagal mein chhura? No role for India at all in such developments? Not even 1 request for any extradition of any Pakistani national from India?

This should all be terribly depressing for those Pakistani conspiracy theorists who have been crying out loud about the covert wars being waged between India & Pakistan since 2004.

Prav said...

@Prasun
There will be no depression.
The average Pakistani conspiracy theorist does not let things like facts and the truth get in his way .

The report on ISRO is disturbing .
Will the GSLV III solve some of the problems .. Further more ISRO claims to have developed a 6 ton satellite is the lack of communication satellites to be blamed on the lack of a launch vehicle ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRAV: This is getting even more interesting! Now the MQM political party is being accused of colluding with R & AW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-PgG_f9PMo

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Watch Tareq Fatah at his combative best while espousing the cause of an independent Baluchistan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCZsKRuRIEk

buddha said...

http://idrw.org/strategic-preparedness-must/#more-63071
interesting reading
like to see more capacity developed in coming days

Technology, Photograpy and Travel said...

Hi Prasun Da

Your analysis seems to great with the Naval vessel break down ... ( from the available information)

well i do not know how i can make on Play station senario work !! :-)

But nice posts and replies....

I feel if this Government continues for another 10 years i see that people would start becoming decisive and have guts to stick to their decisions

We are laking this aspect in our lives !!

Regards
Aditya

Raman said...


@Jay/@Prasun........

Nice detailing.....

Would be wonderful if you could also list out all the Air assets on the IN also......Fixed wing/Rotary/Land based/ASW/MR/S&R/Carrier based/Trainers/Transport etc....

In any scenario they would be really critical..

Also....(now i'm getting greedy !!)...if it could be phased out in 5 year gaps.......say assets by 2020 then 2025.........

Prav said...

What is the procedure of unblacklisting companies that were blacklisted during the arty trials by Antony ?
Are the court cases still going on ?

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

"Pakistan must allow Afghanistan direct access to
India or we will Block thier access to Central Asia:
Ghani" .....Quite a blunt statement coming from a head of a country.

www.thehindu.com/news/national/pakistan-must-open-wagah-for-trade-ghani/article7155457.ece/

Apparently Pakistan is quite paranoia about this: www.ibnlive.com/news/india-rejects-pakistan-stand-on-townships-for-kashmiri-pandits/543054-3.html

Kaku Sh said...

Lol Prasun Sir, they copied the whole Ajj Tak concept, rofl.

Abb Tak, rofl.

sujoymajumdar said...

PrasunDa,

1. Is it true that ECIL's seeker business is seeing excellent growth?

2. Pakistani media says new Saudi application form for hajj has made it compulsory for respondents to declare whether they are Shias

http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2015/may/saudi-hajj-sectarianism-shia.htm#sthash.Bd4kijRP.vUZv0Nxw.dpbs

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Hi Prasun,
What do u think, will this NDA Govt. be able to pull off the DMIC(Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor) Project?
Because majority of the states falling in this corridor (Excpt Delhi & UP) are BJP ruled states(RAJ,MP,GUJ,MAH,HAR).Do you foresee any +ve movement towards this in the immediate or near future?
Your invaluable POV will be of great help.
Thanks in advance.

vishakh said...

Hi

1) How many units of Ghatak Gun will Army purchase??

2) "naval balance-of-power & undersea warfare " Can you upload the article which you are planning my May 1

Jon said...

Amazing rescue and relief effort by the Indian armed forces. Shows how much air logistics has improved in the last decade. Love the images of Dhruv landing on uneven hill sides

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD

MR said...

Prasunda,

What is your take on this:

http://www.janes.com/article/51099/carter-to-offer-scorpion-to-india-under-joint-development-plan

With ME and African countries as potential customers would Textron think of India as an assembly / MRO hub esp. under US DTTI and Make in India initiatives? It does make sense if and only if IAF is interested though.

Rituraj said...

Prasun,

http://www.janes.com/article/51099/carter-to-offer-scorpion-to-india-under-joint-development-plan

Why are these stupid Americans offering something which India doesn't want? Why are they offering something which they themselves don't want?

There is no news on Indian request on GE F414 engine or EMALS or other crucial technologies. However, new useless items are being propped up as a new American offer !!!

Why does IAF need Scorpion? How many aircraft they need for training? Have they seen its price? Has IAF higher leadership gone nuts?

rad said...

hi prasun
the Chinese seem to be desperate for the su-35 because they dont have enough ac ,That surprise me as they have 300+ su 27 and clones plus hundreds of so i believe this is disinformation to get hold and copy the su-35 , why are the Russians so dumb to still give away hi tech weapons that will be surely copied?.
Are they getting the later version of the aa-12 and aa-11?, how will they integrate the sd-10 ?.
Its a matter of time before they perfect the engine techa nd then it will be a worry as they will start churning out su-27s

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun , Just heard that Lal topi wailing that Kayani was a gaddar..cud u shed some light for a mango man like us...wasted my bandwidth watching that puki shit

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@11.05PM: Why listen to such bakwaas in the first place when so much else is happening inside Pakistan? For instance the PA-inspired allegations about R & AW's collusion with MQM? Did you listen to how Altaf Hussain was taunting the PA when he said if the PA is so anxious to wage jihad in the name of Allah, then why the hell did the PA in East Pakistan surrender to the IA in December 1971? Why couldn't they fight to their deaths & achieve martrydom? The PA always gets highly rankled when 1971 gets mentioned this way.

Anyway, word is that certain Karachi-based & Dubai-based businessmen affiliated to a few political parties are bracing for a bloody showdown with the PA & Pak Rangers in Karachi & have already started ordering & receiving weapons supplies from Southeast Asia, i.e. the deals were struck with Bangkok-based suppliers. It is therefore very much probable that the Pakistani boat QALANDAR that was shot at by the ICGS Rajratan on January 1, 2015 off Gujarat was in fact one of the boats ferrying such arms supplies from a larger vessel anchored further away. The mission of the QALANDAR was apparently not to ferry the weapons to India, but to deliver the goods to Karachi-based customers. But inadvertently the NTRO, IN & ICGS got mixed up in this business.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Watch this latest documentary on David Coleman Headley, in which facinating new SIGINT data extraction capabilities of NSA & GCHQ are revealed by Edward Snowden for the first time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx3H9ZxgwGw&hd=1

Siddharth said...

Prasun Da,

We lag behind Chinese in Naval equipment building and quality.

http://idrw.org/indian-15b-project-navy-destroyers-too-little-too-late/

vishakh said...

Hi

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/army-rues-lack-of-funds-for-critical-weapons-to-approach-finance-ministry-in-june/articleshow/47143174.cms

What is your comments????

Jay said...

Sir,
On twitter,some journo(Saurav Jha) said that OFB is developing a parallel 155mm 52 caliber version of Dhanush 155mm 45 caliber(along with DRDO's ATAGS project).

My question is why they went for an intermediate 45 caliber barrel instead of going the whole inchalada and be done with?

Is there a particularly testing technology threshold that stops them from developing a 52 caliber straight away?

From reading about calibre,what I understand is it refers to dimensionless length of barrel
155mm x 52.So is there such a complication for just increasing length? I understand it needs some changes centre of mass related realignment,a stronger hydraulic recoil absorption system etc.
Beyond that anything?Please advise.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SIDDHARTH: This is what emerges from armchair specialists who haven't even stepped on board either PLAN or IN warships. The result is always an erroneous comparison. Firstly, the IN is not competing with PLAN as far as force structuring goes. The PLAN's potential adversaries are the formidable USN & JMSDF. For the IN this isn't the case. Therefore the numbers game comparison doesn't apply at all. In terms of sophistication, the P-15A DDGs are a generation ahead of the PLAN's Type 052C DDGs. The Type 052D DDGs are still undergoing sea-trials.

To VISHAKH: What else does one need to comment upon? It's high time the reality was recognised & urgent force restructuring efforts are undertaken so as to make more money available for spending under the capital account.

To JAY: What else can one expect from nitwits? The latest OFB advertorial printed in all national news-magazines clearly states that: 1) the OFB is developing an upgunning package for M-46 130mm towed howitzers that will be unveilled this October; 2) the OFB is the designated nodal industrial production entity for the 155mm/52-cal ATAGS that is being developed by an industrial consortium (inclusive of OFB) under DRDO's direction & mentoring; & 3) the OFB is the designated nodal industrial production authority for licence-building the 814 155mm/52-cal MGS/motorised howitzers.

Development of ATAGS will take 8 years of effort. Even the 155mm/45-cal Dhanush took 16 years to develop. Work on it began in only 1999. Therefore, one cannot waste more time by waiting for the ATAGS to arrive.

Anonymous said...

P-15A DDGs are a generation ahead of the PLAN's Type 052C DDG!!!!!!! really???? in which terms??? Can you please elaborate???

Vidyut said...

Prasun Sir,
Your comments on this article please.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/at-the-least-we-should-not-fool-ourselves-arun-shourie/

Srinivasa N said...


Hi Prasun,

Been a long time reader of your blog. Fascinating to see many of your predictions becoming true.

My questions are

If it will take another 8 years for ATAGs to bear fruit, isn't it time India look at other options. And why do we even need Towed howitzers when MGS Caesers are on offer. Can't we buy them and get done with the ATAGs? So many projects which are redundant and ill-conceived waste much needed money.

Also, it is reported the Insas Excalibur Assault Rifles are been incorporated into service. Is it true. If so how good are they?

Regarding Submarines, will MOD go the logical route of ordering 3/4 Scorpenes instead of P75I. And use the funds to work with DCNS for SMX Ocean project for future fleet of SSK. What about S80 based super scorpenes. Are they a possibility?

And final question is regarding C295. Based on various news articles, it looks like India will buy C295 and a lot of them. Is it correct? And are these a good choice. I mean we can always go for more C130J. Isn't it more prudent?

Thank for your replies in advance.

Mayur M Manapure said...

http://swaminomics.org/will-china-eye-arunachal-pradesh%E2%80%99s-shale-oil/
I know its 4 year old but Shouldn't current govt look into this...
And I'm sure Any protest from China won't affect this govt..

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BISWAJIT PATTANAIK: 90% of your questions will be answered by this interview of Arun Shourie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V0819-kiUg&hd=1

To MR & RITURAJ: History has a rather strange way of repeating itself, like how the US in the late 1980s was offering to the IAF the F-5F as a LIFT, even though the IAF at that time wanted an AJT solution.

To RAD: The Su-27SKs & Su-27UBKs of the PLAAF & PLANAF that were acquired in the 1990s are all due for replacement in this decade itself. That’s why the J-11A/B/D versions are now rolling out from Shenyang. Therefore, the number of heavy-MRCAs in service with the PLAAF & PLANAF are not that high.

To Anon@13.24PM: PLAN’s Type 052C DDGs never ever had APARs. They were all passive phased-array antenna arrays. APARs are only on board the Type 052D DDGs.

To VIDYUT: It is a very balanced analysis & I fully endorse all the points raised there.

To MAYUR MANAPURE: Fracking makes sense for those countries that have very low population densities (like the US, Canada & Australia) & where environmental degradation does not pose an existential threats for settled populations. This is not the case with India’s North East. Therefore, the only other viable alternative is to spped up the process of offshore drilling for oil & gas in the Andaman Sea, which contain huge confirmed deposits.

BTW, do watch this excellent presentation by Hussain Haqqani:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWyC2fJxPuU&hd=1

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SRINIVAS N: VMT. Since a lot of money has already been sunk into the Dhanush project, it is only logical therefore that some orders be placed in order to obtain some returns on the investments. The Dhanush will be quite useful when deployed in pre-selected firing gunpits over mountainous terrain in J & K, Sikkim & Arunachal Pradesh. Being located on reverse slope of mountains will ensure their survivability against counter-battery fire. If the 39-cal FH-77Bs can fire rounds only out to 32km in the plains & 41km in the mountains, the Dhanush can better this by going out to 39km in the plains & 48km in the mountains. The IA can therefore live with about 800 Dhanush units. As for the ATAGS, the MoD has definitely fallen for the DRDO’s arguments. In the plains & highlands, it is the MGS that will be the force-multiplier & consequently, more than 1,500 Caesar-type MGS units need to be procured. Even if the ATAGS is allowed to be developed, it can then be used to replace the Dhanush in future. Excalibur SLRs are a lot better than the INSAS in terms of both looks & performance & have therefore been ordered in limited quantities by the IA & some CAPFs. SMX Ocean-type SSKs become irrelevant when SSNs are to be procured. Therefore additional Scorpenes, but equipped with AIPs, should be the logical way forward. If the C-295s are ordered, they will definitely be used to replace some of the older An-32Bs in service. But my personal views is that this is a wrong move & instead fleet standardisation ought to be practiced through the acquisition of additional C-130Js. Similarly, the IN should standardise on the P-8I LRMR/ASW platforms by ordering another 10 or 12 units, while totally doing away with the MRMR/ASW platform reqmt. Instead, the MRMP role should be given to the US-2i amphibians of the ICGS, while the IN should go for a customised combat-SAR version of the US-2i for the sake of offering SAR services to the IAF.

Rituraj said...

Prasun,

Have a look at this disruptive technology. A lot of American military websites/forums are discussing it as the great revolution after internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKORsrlN-2k

If this succeeds, a lot of logistical problems related to energy will be history. Wouldn't it be an option for PM Modi to invite this guy and tell him to open a factory in India, reducing the price and having a large economy of scale.

Please share your thoughts. Do you see it as solving India's energy crisis?

rad said...

hi Prasun
please give us some dope on the later versions of the aa-11 and aa-12 missiles with pics .
Because egypt and Qatar have ordered rafales will it mean that the french are going to be more stringent on the price fron as they know the india literally begged them for fly away rafales?
coming to carbines to arm forces dont you think the m-4 is a truly time tested battle proven rifle ?we can go for it as an emergency stop gap solution. and more over it is cheap because they are produced by the thousands still.I believe the Beretta is 4 times as expensive like the tavor.

Raman said...

Hi,

The RM, Manohar Parrikar, since 9/11/14.......finishes 6 months at the MoD by the end of this week.

How do rate his performance ??

At least in the public eye....not much seems to have been actually acheived/closed.....lot's of talk..date's given but not met (OROP or DPP).....DAC approvals but not many deals ACTUALLY signed/implemented (just a few - Atlas Sonars/ASRAAM/Barak 1's/Heron's/1 C-130J ?/1 Mirage 2000Trainer ??/38 PC-7's ??...)

I hope he does not go St AA way............

sujoymajumdar said...

Prasunda,

As per the RFP for the MMRCA, what are the technologies that were supposed to be transferred to HAL by the winner of the contract?

Thanks,

Sujoy

SK said...

Prasun,

What is your opinion on Antonov An-178's development? Does it fit anywhere in AVRO replacement? Is this An-178 and HAL MTA a competition in disguise? Antonov has developed it completely on its own and offered it to India as well.

Thanks

rad said...

hi prasun
The desi awacs sports impressive looking esm,ecm , comint antenna all round .What make are those systems.We have no contemporary hardware to date. Is there data fusion of these sensors?.If imported what are the makes.

Jon said...

Arun Shourie does not believe in mincing words does he? I feel his target is Jaitley not that i disagree with his conclusions. But after the comotose years of UPA I will take the current administration such as it is.

Anonymous said...

interesting article:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-32579561

Anonymous said...

Nobody likes Indian Media except the "intellectuals" and Congress as long as Media is pro-Sonia and anti-Modi.
But the funny thing, the man who reports this Sautik Biswas doesn't know that BBC in India behaves exactly like what Indian Media behave? I hardly see a pro-India (and pro-Hindu) articles/news in BBC. I hardly browse BBC now a days. I also wonder why do BBC mostly appoint guys from Kerala or Bengal or from Christian Missionary schools or with leftist mentality?
It is high time BBC should leave India. BBC still has colonial mentality.

Prasun, I saw this http://tribune.com.pk/story/881162/corps-commanders-conference-under-way-to-discuss-national-security/
Is RAW capable of doing such thing? or is it just a propaganda by Pak Military to take control of government and find a reason to organize terror attacks in India?
RaviN

Prav said...

Sir looking forward to your new article been waiting for 3 days now.

Jon said...

Rafale cost?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/france-offers-25-discount-to-india-on-purchase-of-36-rafale-jets/articleshow/47168431.cms

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

the recent Nepal quake has proved what i was trying to say

1. that people are accusing India of playing oneupmanship to counter China influence in nepal which is why India media has been blasted as insensitive and NDRF was asked to pull out

2. India desperately needs Shinmaywa US2 and V22 Osprey in large numbers to assist in disaster relief in places where road/rail links have been disrupted

3. the nswer you gave to #JayBhanushali regarding submarine fleet adds to 21 its nowhere near Indian Navy 30 submarine plan

4. The stupifying flip flop by the govt on Dawood, proves yet again that high profiles dont want the rabbit hooked, as he holds key to black money of several high profiles. Btw sometime back i heard stories that in mid 2000 Dawood had met someone seen as bigshot in maharastra politics at a vip lounge of airport, how true is that

5. Why is the US trying to stop India from developing the Chah Bahar port

6. Feel as fleet standardization with C130J as per your idea is good, but if MoD doesnot consider it(most likely) the C295 can be used to replace the entire An32, Il76, Il38

btw i still expect you to answer my previous querries

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

A very tall order indeed:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Navy-for-made-in-India-tech-gives-DRDO-list-of-100-wishes/articleshow/47169703.cms

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAVI N: It is not about pro-India or anti-India content, but the accuracy of reporting that determines the credibility of any news channel. In this case, Indian news-reports especially from the vernacular section clearly went overboard. This provides a more objective analysis of what's really happening there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnCQJ0sxPGU&hd=1

As to what's happening inside Pakistan, R & AW is indeed capable of doing far more than what's out in the public domain. But that's not the issue. The Pakistan Army has clearly been rattled by the statements emanating from the MQM party, whose London-based leader on May 1 had OPENLY asked R & AW for help & assistance. This is exactly what he had said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYDSVUDxNK8&list=PLBlIk0kb8LNLb8YaHn0pDJqBQ7eUwMbYo&hd=1

And as I had stated earlier, entities like MQM are India's Trojan Horses. Furthermore, I had also stated that the Holy Prophet had once prophecised that India will eventually come to the assistance of Sindh. Is this what is now unravelling? Is the prophecy coming true at last? Time will tell.

Jon said...

Uncle Sam continues to prop up Pakistan's Military?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/us-arms-pakistan-with-14-combat-aircrafts-59-trainer-jets-374-armoured-carriers/articleshow/47173133.cms

raw13 said...

Hi,

I agree sometimes BBC's choice of writers and topics can be rather strange. It is very preachy. However having said that, your media, is like to scream with their squeaky voices, without any brain power most of the time. Just read the script of the interview they did with Ghani....it was childish to say the least.

What is true of the article is that Indian help has come across as a political point scoring ratherthan humble humanitarian gesture. Samething happened in Kashmir. Pity that you have this mindset.

Prasun will know one of the prophets sayings: if you give charity with your righthand, ideally the left must not know what you have given.

ak_hmr said...

Tarek fatah at his best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcvwSRVquGk

Rajesh Mishra said...

Any Indian help is pure politics and all Saudi politics is equitable socialist distribution of Jaquat.

Jay Bhanushali said...

http://idrw.org/did-chinese-media-agree-that-tejas-is-technological-superior-aircraft-then-jf-17/

Prasun sir,
I would appreciate your views on this article.

Pawan said...

Dear Jay

Wantchinatimes is Taiwanese newspaper not chinese newspaper

Jon said...

Finally!

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/shipping-/-transport/india-iran-sign-pact-on-developing-chabahar-port-will-give-sea-land-access-route-to-afghanistan/articleshow/47178661.cms

Jay Bhanushali said...

I am more interested in knowing from prasun sir whether the analysis is accurate or not?

Rajesh Mishra said...

The Chinese say in summation, that the Xiaolong is the aircraft of today and the Tejas is the aircraft of tomorrow.
The bottleneck is that we never are able to leave the today and the lacuna is that we never get to enter in to the tomorrow.

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