The approval accorded by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) of India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) on September 28, 2020 for commencing the process of bulk acquisition worth Rs.970 crore of the Smart Anti-Airfield Weapon (SAAW) clears the decks for private-sector industrial vendor selection to take off, with the MoD-owned Bharat Dynamics Ltd already being nominated as the prime industrial contractor-cum-systems integrator. Among the private-sector entities expected to selected is the Kalyani Group, which has a joint manufacturing industrial partnership with Israel’s RAFAEL Advanced Systems Ltd.
The SAAW is a joint India-Israel project to co-develop a multi-role, air-launched, standoff gliding precision-guided munition (PGM) which, for all intents and purposes, will be India’s first operational precision-guided directed-energy weapon (DEW). It may be recalled that in the night of September 6, 2007 in the desert at Al Kibar, 130km (81 miles) from the Iraqi border and 30km from the northern Syrian provincial city Deir el-Zor, a fleet of ten IDF-AF F-15Is conducted OP Orchard, which involved the destruction of a heavy-water reactor then under construction with North Korean expertise and Iranian funding. In that raid, the IDF-AF had used a RAFAEL-developed precision-guided, standoff DEW to shut down Syria’s ground-based passive air-defence sensors (also known as passive surveillance systems, or PSS)—a move that would go on to be the optimum model for future surgical air-strikes.
Israel offered to co-develop a variant of this DEW with India on July 7, 2008 during an official meeting in Pune with the DRDO. This was followed by two additional meetings held in Delhi with senior DRDO and Indian Air Force (IAF) officials in August and September 2007. The joint R & D project (headed by the DRDO’s Hyderabad-based Research Centre Imarat) officially began in mid-2010 and series-production of this DEW will commence later this year.
This air-launched, fire-and-forget, expendable DEW, whose main role is to render electronic targets useless, makes use of the airframe of RAFAEL’s Spice 250 PGM. It is a non-kinetic alternative to traditional explosive weapons that use the energy of motion to defeat their targets. During a mission, this missile will navigate a pre-programmed flight plan (using fibre-optic gyros) and at pre-set coordinates an internal active phased-array microwave emitter will emit bursts of selective high-frequency radio wave strikes against up to six different targets (like PSS sensors and ground-based EW jammers) during a single mission. The EMP-like field that will be generated will shut down all hostile electronics. Thus, the whole idea behind such a weapon is to be able to destroy an enemy’s command, control, communication and computing, surveillance and intelligence (C4SI) capabilities without doing any damage to the people or traditional infrastructure in and around it. In other words, it can eliminate a hierarchical air-defence network’s effectiveness by destroying the electronics within it alone, via a microwave pulse, without kinetically attacking the network itself.
For the IAF, this air-launched DEW will be a ‘first day of war’ standoff weapon that can be launched outside an enemy’s area-denial/anti-access capabilities, and fly a route over known C4SI facilities (especially PSS sensors and EW jamming systems), zapping them along its way, before destroying itself at the end of its mission. Because of its stealthy design, long-range and expendability, it will fly where no other manned airborne assets could and because it does not blow anything up, its use does not necessarily give away the fact that the enemy is under direct attack in the first place. In that sense, it is also a psychological weapon, capable of at least partially blinding an enemy’s ground-based early warning sensors like PSS systems and EW jammers before it even knows that a larger-scale air-attack is coming.
The IAF plans to arm its upgraded Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 interdictors and the yet-to-be-delivered Super Su-30MKI H-MRCAs with this DEW. Unguided test-launches of the SAAW from a Jaguar IS were first conducted at Pokhran in May 2015 to validate the weapons release/pylon ejection mechanisms, while the first powered test-flight was conducted on December 23, 2016.
Both the IAF and Indian Navy have a stated requirement for more than 1,500 SAAWs, which will be employed for suppression of enemy air-defence (SEAD) networks, while for the destruction of enemy air-defence (DEAD) systems, use will be made of the DRDO-developed RUDRAM-1 supersonic anti-radiation missiles.
The reason why the upgraded Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 interdictors and the yet-to-be-delivered Super Su-30MKI H-MRCAs will be the first platforms to be armed with SAAW is that these two platforms are also the first to make use of the indigenously developed digital map generators, which provide highly accurate en-route navigation while employing terrain-masking/terrain-avoidance flight profiles, which are necessary pre-requisites when trying to surprise the adversary, especially when the adversary has a hierarchical, in-depth, ground-based air-defence network.
For instance, China’s PLAAF operates LR-SAMs like the HQ-9/FD-2000, S-300PMU-series and S-400, which in turn are protected by the HQ-22 MR-SAM and HQ-17 E-SHORADS Regiments, the FD-2000 CIWS for terminal air-defence, and the YLC-20 PSS and CHL-805 jamming stations.
On the other hand, the PLAGF makes use of HQ-16/LY-80 MR-SAMs, FM-3000 E-SHORADS and HQ-7 SHORADS.
50 comments:
As for the SDRs cleared for bulk production yesterday, these are the ones:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JcjfYGBqDjw/XU9MtLK-9JI/AAAAAAAARh4/-6bgcjr4GNM_NfeNx9VzyS6hhjPwl8-uQCLcBGAs/s1600/SDR-4.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ro-ZGbZhtc0/XUzUoMo4edI/AAAAAAAARgw/47FJAaPbtx0rE13zufDPul_j-E1axwinACLcBGAs/s1600/SDR-1.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wnE4iCheG98/XUzU7GjiGRI/AAAAAAAARg4/-bTE50Dyi2EfIn24LUhxl1GtUafsf1izwCLcBGAs/s1600/SDR-2.jpg
And these are the airborne SDRs being procured:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P-19d9opbx8/XU9ObU0XwDI/AAAAAAAARiY/1vKdAnEvQHAu-IwuKJtehejTjZL6vb8uwCLcBGAs/s1600/SDR-2010.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4IXw3slTnHk/XU9O2JTyXzI/AAAAAAAARik/99eS8tpM710a2L8qGmXybvUJKoixNuktgCLcBGAs/s1600/RAFAEL%2527s%2BBNET-AR%2BSDR.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hECqrKXDmVQ/XxnJdXZOtRI/AAAAAAAAUFE/C8N9FvKeIpk5ABNIYBdR4eAVRhlCC299wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/BNET-AR%2BAirborne%2BSDR.jpg
To BUDDHA: VMT & BTW, have you observed that none of the ‘desi experts’—civil & military/serving & retired—never say a word about the 36 stratagems being employed by China against India? Even S Jaishankar in his latest book makes no mention of it at all, which is highly distressing. The 36 Stratagems draws quite strongly on the thoughts and actions of Zhuge Liang, the Chancellor of the Kingdom of Shu Han (221–263 AD), and a great military strategist of the Three Kingdoms Period (who lived from around 220 to 280 AD). The Ming dynasty historical novel (written, circa 1360 AD) titled The Romance of the Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong, outlines numerous battles & military campaigns of this time that feature Zhuge Liang, and other heroes of that time such as Liu Bei (a warlord who later became ruler of Shu Han), as well as Guan Yu and Zhang Fei (two Generals who served Liu Bei) relates to many of the 36 Stratagems. One example among several is the 32nd stratagem: Empty City Ploy, which was inspired by Zhuge Liang. He saved a strategic city called Chang’an, by creating the appearance that it was deserted (solitarily playing a zither at the city gate). The suspicion this created among the invaders that they were about to be ambushed unnerved them to the point that they turned around and left hastily. The following are the Original 36 Strategies & Their Contemporary Maxims that are always applied without fail by China against all its adversaries:
1) Cross the Sea by Deceiving the Sky: Act in the open, but hide your true intentions.
2) Besiege Wei to Rescue Zhao: Attack their Achilles heel.
3) Kill with a Borrowed Knife: Attack using the strength of another person.
4) Relax and Wait for the Adversary to Tire Himself Out. Await leisurely the exhausted enemy: Exercise patience and wear them down.
5) Loot a Burning House: Hit them when they are down.
6) Make a Feint to the East While Attacking in the West: Fake to the right; attack to the left.
7) Create Something Out of Nothing: Turn something that is not substantial into reality.
8) Secretly Utilize the Chen Cang Passage (CNC). Pretend to Advance Down One Path While Taking Another Hidden Path: Pretend to care about an issue and later give it up to get what you really want.
9) Watch the Fire Burning from Across the River: Allow them to fight your other enemy while you rest and observe. Later, defeat the exhausted survivor.
10) Conceal a Dagger in a Smile: Befriend them to get their guard down, then attack their weakest point.
Cont'd below...
11) Sacrifice a Plum Tree to Save a Peach Tree. Let the Plum Tree Wither in Place of the Peach Tree: Trade up! Take a small loss for a large gain.
12) Take Away a Goat in Passing: Take advantage of every small opportunity.
13) Beat the Grass to Startle the Snake: Stir things up before beginning to negotiate for your true interests.
14) Raise a Corpse from the Dead. Borrow a Corpse to Return the Soul: Revive a dead proposal by presenting it again or in a new way.
15) Lure the Tiger out of the Mountain: Seek a neutral location. Negotiate after leading them away from a position of strength.
16) Let the Adversary off in order to Snare Him: To Capture the Enemy, First Let It Go. Do not arouse their spirit to fight back.
17) Toss out a Brick to Attract a piece of Jade. Toss out a Brick to Attract Jade: Trade something of minor value for something of major value.
18) To Catch Bandits, Nab Their Ringleader First. To Catch the Bandits, First Catch Their Ringleader: Convince the leader and the rest will follow.
19) Remove the Fire from under the Cauldron: Eliminate the source of their strength.
20) Muddle the water to catch the fish. Gathering Fish from Trouble Waters: Do something surprising or unexpected to unnerve them, and then take advantage of that situation.
21) The Cicada Sheds Its Shells. The Golden Cicada Sheds Its Shell. The Cicada Sloughs Its Shell: When you are in trouble, secretly escape.
22) Fasten the Door to Catch a Thief. Lock the Door and Catch the Thief: Completely destroy them by leaving no way for escape.
23) Befriend a Distant State While Attacking a Neighbouring State. Befriend Distant States While Attacking Nearby Ones: Build strategic alliances with others that will give you the upper hand.
24) Borrow a Safe Passage to Conquer the Kingdom of Guo. Attack Hu by a Borrowed Path: Temporarily join forces with a friend against a common enemy.
Cont'd below...
25) Steal the Dragon and Replace with the Phoenix. Steal the Beams and Pillars and Replace Them with Rotten Timber. Steal the Beams and Change the Pillars: Sabotage, incapacitate, or destroy them by removing their key support.
26) Point at the Mulberry Tree but Curse the Locust Tree: Convey your intentions and opinions indirectly.
27) Feign madness, but keep your balance. Pretend to be a Pig in Order to eat the Tiger. Play Dumb. Feign Ignorance and Hide One’s Intentions: Play Dumb, then surprise them. Let them underestimate you.
28) Remove the Ladder after your ascent. Lure the enemy onto the roof, then take away the ladder. Cross the River and Destroy the Bridge (CNC): Lead them into a trap, then cut off their escape.
29) Decorate the Tree with Fake Blossoms: Reframe deceitfully. Expand the pie with objects of little value.
30) Turn Yourself into a Host from Being a Guest. Host and Guest Switch Roles: Turn your defensive and passive position into an offensive and active one.
31) Use a Beauty to Ensnare a Man. Provide alluring distractions: Honey trap.Beauty Trap.
32) Open the Gate of an Undefended City. The Empty City Stratagem: Deliberately displaying your weakness can conceal your vulnerability.
33) Use Adversary’s Spies to Sow Discord in Your Adversary’s Camp. Turn the Enemy’s Agents against Him: Provide inaccurate information to mislead them, especially through informal channels.
34) Inflict Pain on Oneself in order to Infiltrate Adversary’s Camp and Win the Confidence of the Enemy. Self-Torture: Appear to take some hits. Feign weakness while arming yourself.
35) Lead Your Adversary to Chain Together Their Warships. Stratagem on Stratagems: Devise a set of interlocking stratagems to defeat them.
36) Retreat is the Best Option: If All Else Fails, Run Away.
Project Silver Bullet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTgUcYzuODE
Fluxliner ARV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbNWU01p76Y
Prasunda
https://youtu.be/asSkzfSRlBo
Take what you can before negotiating with what you have
better late than never. what Isreal used in 2007 India will have that in 2021 i:e 14 years late.
The new DPP 2020 does away with offsets in certain types of defence deals.
Our industry has been getting “technology” since 1950s in all areas has clearly not absorbed most of it .
It is a good thing.
It is better to have partnership like done with Israel.
That leaves out Armed forces to draw up realistic RFQ, will that change ?
Regards
Venky
Going by the trends of azerbaijan armenian conflict, i am wondering how will our ill equipped armoured columns will fight against pakistan or even china who have sophisticated armed uavs in karge numbers.....sorry state of affairs indeed for indian army
hi Prasun
1. does SAAW have 2 way data link( as in is it designed to work in a networked environment)?
2. does barak 8 have KU band seeker or a KA band seeker?
37th Stratagem: Crap before you are in the trap;let your enemy not see you dirty your pants!
Hi Prasun,
Please see the below link. What are the ramifications for the new defence deals to be signed in future? Does this have any bearing on the current deal for the Rafale or the future lots that are likely to be bought?
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/india-does-away-with-offsets-for-government-to-government-defence-deals/amp_articleshow/78363924.cms
To DASHU: LoLz! While Israel had this subsonic unpowered gliding PGM back in 2007, in 2020 it has the supersonic RAMPAGE to do the same job.
To VENKY: That again is a misnomer. The term offsets needs to be qualified, i.e. direct & indirect. Successive RMs & Ministers of State for Defence have ALWAYS & WITHOUT FAIL i9nsisted on DIRECT OFFSETS, for which the market hardly exists. Instead, the adoption of the INDIRECT OFFSETS would have helped MSMEs in several other categories/industries not related to military-industrialisation. It is this fundamental flaw that has led to the term ‘offsets’ becoming a loser. Till today, folks don’t grasp the hard reality, which is: for localised military-industrialisation the reqmt is for 100,000 certified/licenced engineers & technicians, plus another 10,000 designers—well above what the DRDO & DPSUs together can recruit & absorb. Watch this for more data inputs:
To AMIT BISWAS: Attacks by drone swarms can be neutralised only by 2 means: electronic jamming as the soft-kill option, and laser effectors, this being the hard-kill option.
To ANUP: The MoD has clearly messed up big-time the entire single-engined LUH project, just like it has done to the LCH & armed Rudra projects, i.e. virtually no coordination between airframe development efforts of HAL & its weaponisation by the DRDO. Here are the figures for various LUH reqmts:
The tri-services presently operate a total of 187 Cheetah and 205 Chetak helicopters, which are often used to even service high-altitude areas like Siachen Glacier region. However, these have lately witnessed a patchy record with a high crash-rate and huge serviceability issues. The development also gains significance as the armed forces have been demanding new LUHs for well over 15 years now. In total, the tri-services need 483 new LUHs. The first is a joint venture between India and Russia, under an inter-governmental agreement inked way back in 2015, to manufacture 200 twin-engine Kamov-226Ts (135 for Army, 65 for IAF) for over Rs.20,000 crore. HAL, of course, is also developing its own single-engined LUH. The initial requirement was pegged at 111 for Army and 61 for IAF. With the basic IAF variant getting the initial operational clearance (IOC) in February this year, the Army one is now also ready for it. But given the large numbers required and the production capacity available, both the Kamov and HAL projects need to be pushed to avoid a huge operational void over the next few years. The third proposed project is the “strategic partnership” one to produce 111 armed, twin-engined LUHs at a cost of over Rs.21,000 crore. Under it, an Indian private-sector company was to tie-up with a foreign OEM. Four Indian firms (Tata, Adani, Mahindra Defence and Bharat Forge) and three foreign ones (Airbus, Kamov and Lockheed Martin-Sikorsky) were earlier shortlisted. But with HAL now insisting it should also be considered, the project is nowhere near taking off.
To HOODS007: 1) No, it is a fire-n-forget PGM whose flight trajectory & profile are pre-programmed. It was never meant to be a loitering PGM & hence it is unpowered. 2) Ku-band seeker.
To PIERRE ZORIN: Not just wet-pants, but the ejected gaseous emissions also serve to increase the heat signature!
hi prasun
1.regarding your answer about israel SAAW equivalent being augmented by rampage missile, can't we do the same with our guided pinaka rocket. i know that pinaka is only 217mm rocket unlike the rampage rocket which is a 300 mm rocket but it should be possible to turn to guided pinaka rocket for air launch.
2.How come israeli BSM like 'LORA' with range of 350-400 km and warhead weight of 500 kg weight just about 1.7-1.9 ton but our desi BSM like pralay for the same range and warhead weighs a whopping 5 ton!!!
Prasun,
1- what will be the area of damage in kms/mts for emp saaw? will there be a desi version of rampage say like a powered version of saaw
2- what engine is safran talking about in the recent days
3-where did nirbhay come from ? and that too deployment ready
4- If the carbines were never needed to be bought why the drama and unnecessarily upset vendors... ditto with Bhio.. whats happening on that front will that too get cancelled? what desi alternatives can we have? one cud be a desi version of what turkey has done using rheinmetall oerlikon guns which they plan to manufacture here
6- U mention @1.1lac engineers for a proper military-industrial ecosystem . but isn't this where the pvt sector will be playing a role?
Hi Prasun, The china aggression in ladakh is to force india to spend more on air power and infrastructure for army so navy will be left with less funds to modernize so china have now credible adversary in indian ocean. Also, if the IA is tied in ladakh and as you said earlier it will not go for offensive in baltistan or other parts of kashmir.
Has any Indian worrier in the history, used any of these 36 stratagems to win any battle or the war? If YES then please elaborate and if NO then please tell why not.
Hello Prasun,
Welcome back; thanks for the update; understood. Anything sharable from the experience during your absence.
Appreciate the 36 stratagems and its application by the Hans. If the initiative is with them it works; otherwise most of the times 36th one is by default.
My understanding is (and with bold disclaimer that I am not military strategist; however, apply the relevant for career and betterment with current limited physical and psychic skills); don't fancy anything.
1) The reason for boxer rebellion, their occupation and the strategies applied by Japanese; the approach used by the Russians (historically) matters more for Indian perspective. The historical attacks by Huns tartars/mongols and their repulse almost every time also matters in the current context. For recent ones Fugong and other physical forms, the successful creep of Christian conversion machinery also matters. The best is when Indians with marbles seize the initiative and do relevant.
2) the real enemy is the separated brothers (Riasat-e-Madina- Pakistan and Bangladesh) for starters and Afghanistan and Burma later. Finish them with the right tools (military, economic or other means relevant)
3)Like during preparation of Chicken 65, the Hans are currently brayed (bloated in salt water) owing to the economic overstretch. Push the right levers and take Gilgit, Baltistan and the relevant above Himanchal and Uttarakhand with whatever resources currently available and putting them to use innovatively (Jugaad?). This will fetch a bonus of good behavior from dispensation in Nepal.
Your thoughts please.
Thanks, Ganesh
Hi Prasun
What is your views on turkey getting involved in multiple conflicts in Azerbaijan & Armenia, Libya and Syria, on the more picking fights with India, Russia and the Arab gulf countries( excluding Qatar and Oman (being neutral on all)). They playing with a weak economy and trying to polarize the Muslim world. These guys trying to revive the ottoman caliphate which was purely authoritarian. Looks like everybody in the Muslim apart from a few have forgotten it. As usual Pakistan will suck up to anyone who will give something for nothing and be a prick to kashmir issue.
Regards
Remo
Prasunda,
A few queries?
1. Given the de-facto Acceptance of Necessity for lage numbers of new LUHs due to serviceability & obsolescence issues of the Cheetah/Chetaks in all 3 services, can the Ka-226Ts be used by Indian Navy? Ka-226Ts are twin-engined safer wheeled & seem to have modular capacity for multiple roles in a sort of plug & play modules. As HAL LUH is optimised for hi-altitude due to their rotors which handicaps them on ships, this could be a win win solution for both products. Ofcourse, it would be better to import the Ka-226Ts while ensuring maintenance overhauling & supply chain for them in India.
2.With the LTA Saras Mk2 showing radical design changes after huge delays, it seems to be now truly both literally & figuratively a reinvented wheel with the pusher prop being junked for Dornier style High wing conventional turboprop. So, why did they pay for the Duet & now compounding it by trying to make the same product which exists as the Do-228?
Are Indians or HAL or whatever's very confused or am I missing something as in waste by DPSUs & govt being the right thing to do?
To HOODS007: 1) Yes, it can be done by equipping the 214mm rocket with either an IIR seeker or MMW seeker for terminal guidance. In fact, I had proposed it back in 2018 itself. But it must be stated here that the SAAW is optimised for SEAD missions, while a terminally-guided air-to-surface version of Pinaka rocket will be usable fopr DEAD missions. In addition, a ground-launched version of the NG-ARM is also reqd for destroying the adversary’s ground-based battlefield air-defence systems. The NG-ARM can easily be canister-mounted atop any multi-axle vehicle or even a BEML-developed 4 x 4 of the type used by Kalyani group’s 155mm/39-cal MGS. 2) Because the Pralay is a longer-range missile that can go out to a distance of more than 500km.
To JUST-CURIOUS: 1) If it is flying along a pre-programmed trajectory then it will be able to generate up to 3 EMP bursts over a 20sq km area housing AAA concentrations. 2) SAFRAN had proposed using the core of the M88 turbofan but using everything else that the GTRE had developed with ceramics-based composites, i.e. it was to be a brand-new Kaveri turbofan for which the GTRE had already done most of the work. 3) FAKE NEWS. Kindly refer to my reply to VIKRAM GUHA in the previous thread. 4) It only reveals that the prospective end-user is extremely confused. 5) No, it can’t because it wants ready-made human resources of the type that can only be generated by properly-equipped educational/academic institutions.
To PSS: I’m afraid that is not true. Only 30% of the expenditure now being incurred is for imports while the rest of it is being spent on locally-made products & is thus creating something like a booming ‘war economy’ in terms of rising demand for consumer products & also for infrastructure development projects.
To RAJESH MISHRA: Yes indeed, from the days of Ramayana & Mahabharata, followed much later by the Magadha & Maurya dynasties, the Chola & Pallava dynasties, the Vijayanagara dynasty, the Maratha dynasty & even the Rajputs. However, they have not yet been collated & consolidated in a central encyclopaedia-type book for readymade reference. Maybe I will attempt to do it in the future, since I have most of the published records related to such dynasties & their military campaigns that have always been available in bits & pieces.
To GANESH: I had already explained it in part to RAD yesterday & here it is again: I was not just there, but elsewhere along the LAC as well, since from 2016 onwards I have been involved with developmental activities related to coming up with novel ways to use nano-scale technology to process Lithium Titanate Oxide (LTO) materials. Such work has since led to the commercialisation of a unique, large format, nano-lithiumtitanate (nLTO) battery cell, having key advantages over other lithium-ion battery (LiB) technologies, even those that use LTO materials. These benefits were leveraged to create a portfolio of battery solutions that could be used in the electric grid, transportation, and industrial sectors—all in very high-altitude areas since such solutions are not at all affected by the vagaries of weather or sub-zero temperatures. In addition, they are scalable & can be used for a wide variety of applications, ranging from central heating for long-durations, all the way to providing power for all kinds of tactical & in-theatre communications grids i9n an uninterrupted manner. The reason why India’s armed forces require such solutions include: they are maintenance-free; they do not emit any heat or noise signatures; they are scalable & can be manpack-mounted, animal-mounted & vehicle mounted. And needless to say, there are huge commercial applications of such solutions in remote areas as well as in areas afflicted with humanitarian/natural disasters.
1) Stratagems are always devised by the CUNNING & India’s recorded history is replete with such personalities & their achievements, as I have explained just above. 2 & 3) The only real adversary is the CPC-ruled PRC. Destroy it & all the parasites feeding from it will also crumble & disintegrate.
To REMO: Let Turkey by all means over-stretch itself far & wide, as this will enable the Orthodox Christian-majority countries to collectively extract revenge from Ankara.
To KAUSTAV: 1) The naval reqmt for LUH is a twin-engined machine & that too it must be a proven platform. Hence, from both these perspectives, the preference is clearly for the Airbus Military AS.565 Panther. The Ka-226T naval variant is only a paper design at this stage, while the single-engined LUH from HAL was rules out by the IN a long time ago. 2) The so-called LTA being peddled is just a redesigned & souped-up Do-228 airframe. The real challenge will be in obtaining internationally acceptable airworthiness certification for such an aircraft, i.e. FAA or EASA certification. And since HAL has not yet been able to obtain such certifications for any of its platforms produced to date (not even for the Russia-designed Saras), I see the LTA as nothing but a whim & fantasy as of now. However, if it is made mandatory to achieve FAA/EASA certification, then perhaps HAL in partnership with the country’s private-sector can make the LTA a possibility. However, as matters now stand, for as long as HAL remains a DPSU, it will be IDIOTIC to expect HAL to behave & operate in a market-oriented manner.
BTW, China continues to tie itself up in knots over the LAC issue, with the latest being its claim to adhering to the 1959 version of the LAC, despite it having advanced far more westwards in 1962. Next, it will state that the 1959 LAC offer too was meant to be a temporary arrangement (like a temporary ceasefire line) since China has since 2009 declared that it considers Ladakh to be disputed territory & hence is not part of India. It will then try to bolster this PoV by pointing out that even Pakistan’s latest political maps do not include Ladakh. Thus, by default, if Ladakh does not form part of India or Pakistan, then it must be belonging to China. This is how the arguments will play out in the coming weeks. But what China is forgetting is that back in 1959 it itself had conceded that Ladakh was a part of India when it took part in the boundary (not LAC) negotiations, the conduct of which I had highlighted here:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-evLLEnNAW-Y/XyNuEzpVcgI/AAAAAAAAUMo/C5Bt0Iaoi_0Cc8WuoEBGgfKbhGW4tYhFQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/TAR-2.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-C2y25p8usYk/XyNuGB8znEI/AAAAAAAAUMs/JyYlwKkI8iMXZQ_PDe9D3suLEO3DYaRiwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/TAR-3.jpg
And here are the details of all those negotiations:
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/1960BorderTalksbetweenIndiaChina.pdf
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/OR_Part_1.pdf
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/OR_Part_2.pdf
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/OR_Part_3.pdf
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/OR_Part_4.pdf
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/ORC_01-32_Part1.pdf
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/ORC_33-57_Part2.pdf
http://www.archieve.claudearpi.net/maintenance/uploaded_pics/ORC_58-75_Part3.pdf
https://www.claudearpi.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/1963-Chinese-Agression-in-Maps.pdf
It is now up to India to reveal to the whole world that it was China that failed to produce any supporting documentation for justifying its territorial claims back then & this situation prevails even today. Hence, under international law, China stands no chance at all in any negotiating table against India.
Prasunda,
Thanks as usual of course. Though Russia wud ofcourse uv been pleased no doubt. The LTA ofcourse is a lost cause & possibly money down the drain.
Huge thanks & appreciation for your continued highlighting both of PRC strategies as well as their practical handicaps. I had a related query of this with reference to that TAG YouTube link, uploaded earlier - Is it possible that each side is trying to grab whatever territory feasible or necessary & jockey into as advantageous a position as possible before a settlement of sorts is reached between the 3 nations involved? Ofcourse, as far as PRC & Pak are concerned on POK & CPEC atleast, they are a single entity. Looking forward to your interesting views as usual
Lol IMHO these stratagems are more aptly the 36 Dhurtas. Seriously do you forsee us going into Tibet as warned by retired PLA officer. I think the winters are tad warmer on TAR so our troops may actually savvy the idea. And if the PLA is handed a military defeat the repercussions will be huge?
1) Sir with latest speech at UN are we moving towards UN reforms and is it backed by world? Namely UNSC seat and Taiwan entry to UN?
2) Did Russia really suspend s400 deliveries to China? Sounds fake. And who is it bolstering the east against, as per their recent statement, China?
3) With Diamer Bhasha and increasing bonhomie in POK, it has become more of a survival and growth issue for India's well being and yet no actions on horizon or prep for that even before LAC crisis. Eventually the defenses will harden or maybe China will actually move in POK.
4) Will quad once signed will have military obligations if not spending or mil spec commonality? Will we expect them to open up naval front if we have to open land front and vice versa?
If you notice all signs of pre wwii are repeating - pandemic, economic slump, massive global nationalism, new alliances, trade wars and multiple border conflicts.
Also a China Russia in new age molotov ribbentrop pact with underlying chances of conflict is happening.
Some webs of alliances will overlap - Turkey vs Saudi, UAE, Greece, France and Cyprus, Armenia.
Pakistan, China vs Quad
Pakistan vs Afghanistan backed by India
Iran vs USA backed by gulf
NATO vs Russia
Remains to be seen whether Russia aids armenia openly and isolates Azerbaijan.
There world waits to see whether the bear will join the dragon or get attacked by dragon and join an uneasy alliance with quad.
Thanks
Hi Prasun
1 why have IAF/DRDO chosen the A330 platform for the AWAC. considering air india and vistara have more than 30+ orders of Boeing 787 would it not have been better logistically speaking to base the AWAC on 787 platform. was A330 chosen because wing tunnel testing for disk radar on A330 has been already been done by airbus, since SAAB had made an offer for their goldeneye AWAC on A330 to RAF some years ago?
2 recently in a webinar IAF senior officials said that more NETRA will be ordered. will these be based on the RJ-145 platforms or will some other airframe like global 6000 will be chosen?
Thanks for the very wise reply. Please collect the historical Indian use of the such stratagems.
BTW, Armenia in spite of all the bravery is going to be overrun within a week as global Muslamic terrorists, Turkish caliphate and Pakistan are actively helping the Azerbaijan. This will be the first victory for the China-Turkish-Pakistan axis. This has to be retaliated and reversed. With the US being very busy in its electoral politics, Russia and only Russia can retaliate against the invaders. So Russia is requested to retaliate suitably within 2-3 days only. Hi Putin! It is up to you. Ball is in your court.
Hi Prasun
Interview of former cbi official in Tamil on the LTTE defeat
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5CS7caNb7X0
Hi Prasun,
Could India play sindhudesh independence movement in sindh province and shia vs sunni in Pok in addition to colluding with Iran for Balochistan? Will Iran also be happy to play Sunni vs Shia in PoK?
Dear Prasun,
What's this status of our indigenous fighter engine programme? Will you please tell whether our development process is in the right direction?
Hello sir, how many SAAW are being purchased for 970 crore?
To BHOUTIK: Recollections of OP FALCON in Response to this Article in CARAVAN:
https://caravanmagazine.in/interview/general-v-n-sharma-indian-china-conflict-wangdung-tawang-1987-mcmahon-line
First, the so-called WANGDUNG Incident’ took place in April to July 1986. Lt Gen V N Sharma was then the Comdt College of Combat Mhow.
Second, the then GOC-in-C Eastern Command was a Lt Gen Puri. The Corps Cdr was Lt Gen N S I Narahari and the Division GOC was Maj Gen J M Singh. The Brigade Cdr was Brig Brar.
Third, the Battalion at Lungro La was 3/5 GR (FF).
Fourth, the Battalion was holding four prominent spurs leading down to Sumdorong Chu and the PLA was occupying the lower tips.
Fifth, in July 1986 when the SIB went to establish its yearly post at Sumdorong Chu, the PLA had occupied the area, initially with about 30 odd soldiers. In between, it had occupied the lower tips of spur-lines leading down from the Lungro La Pass.
Sixth, the GOC Maj Gen J M Singh briefed the then COAS Gen K Sundarji about the PLA’s presence, thus: “I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I would prefer to do”. 3/5GR (FF) was inducted overnight via Mi-17 helicopters and occupied the spurs. Both Maj Gen J M Singh and Lt Gen Narahari were frequent visitors. They walked along some of the spur-lines and are the boldest COs most of us have seen.
Seventh, on or about July 12, 1986, the PLA attempted to creep up the eastern spur known a Jai Fort. The Officiating Company Commander Capt R M S Rawat was called up by the Battalion CO and ordered to fire a warning round and then shoot to kill. This was after speaking to Maj Gen J M Singh. There was no "wink" involved.
Eighth, the PLA next dropped their arms and equipment and hid in their bunkers.
Ninth, the next morning, the Battalion CO briefed the Army GOC-in-C, Corps GOC and the Divisional GOC on the incident. Except for the GOC-in-C Lt Gen Puri, Lt Gen Narahari and Maj Gen J M Singh applauded the action. The GOC-in-C said” “do you want a war?” The Battalion CO’s reply was that the PLA was climbing up the ridgeline and he could not afford to lose territory.
Tenth, the Battalion CO was then Col Richard Khare, later Lt Gen Richard Khare. The young Captain Rawat was awarded a Sena Medal and rose to Colonel but unfortunately passed away too soon. The other Company Commanders were Maj (now Col V Samuel), Maj now Col H B Vadde, Major later Col C P James retd and Capt Lokesh Sharma now Col retd. Capt Shubahasish Sengupta (later Maj Gen) was with the CO when the PLA was spotted on the Jai Fort spur-line. It was some distance away and not in "wink" contact. One can only say that this particular interview of former COAS Gen V N Sharma in CARAVAN and its attempt to find a role where none exists, is due to a failing memory. One would hate to think of it as anything else! You may like to check these facts from other open sources or any other contacts. I regret I never met Gen V N Sharma who took over Eastern Command when this action was over. The PLA later vacated the spur-lines a decade later. What did the Indian Army achieve? Psychological ascendancy. That’s all.
Lt Gen Richard Khare (retd)
Gurgaon 122001
richardkhare@gmail.com
And Zimithang today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfDdQqatSB0&t=20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19D5bdcjVlk&t=27s
When China Tried to Open Another Front with 93-Day Standoff in 1999 in Arunachal Pradesh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUUH8X5cmdI
thank you for this (& everything else ofcourse :-D)
The use of suicide drones between Armenia & Azerbaijan is interesting.
Armenia has no defence even after 3-4 years .
What about our armed forces ?
Regards
Venky
https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-plans-to-turn-xinjiang-into-california-by-diverting-indian-rivers-experts-say_3509011.html
https://www.scribd.com/document/478104010/China-Task-Force-Report
Mr.Prasun
1)What is the Number of SPYDER Sams ordered and delivered for the Air Force and Army
2)How many SQNS and layout of SQNS of AF and Regiments of Army?
3)Is MRSAM operational with IAF and how many SQNS?
Thank you
aarpee
Hello sir, today we received a plane for our prime minister with all the safety features but do you think we need to lookout for the listening devices in the plane ,if I'm not wrong sometime back the chinese found bugs in their aircraft taken from the americans. Secondly what is your take on the morale of our troops posted along the lac. Sir why is it so that we want to be a Vishwa Guru but our track record says something else, Balochistan was mentioned couple of years ago and forgotten. Armenia supported us on kashmir but we gave out a very dull statement regarding the war going on there.i have friends there and they look up to India what have we done for our well wishers and supporters. As a common man I see nothing, or maybe it is that some chanakya neeti is being played which is beyond the understanding of the lesser mortals like me.
hi prasun
i was ignorant of this Lithium Titanate Oxide (LTO) materials.Are doing some research on this with the gov? what you say seems to be a cutting edge technologies involving a ot of moneya s it has nono tech invloved . BY the by do the ISRO LION batteries have the same tech or is it traditional li ion batt?.
The japs have started to uese LION on thier subs and what tech is that ?
Prasun Da
Iran,Turkey,Azerbaijan is conducting armed UAV missions with much efficiency and with zero human risk. We are still waiting for single armed UAV for service inducted till today.
hi prasun
regarding the desi digital map generator - can a flight attack plan be generated with it with the pilot flying hands off where the waypoints, altitude and speed etc are all preprogramed into the flight plan .
can you pse confirm is there any move to power tha SAAW as we kow a lot of gliding bombs got intercepted in syria due to the known unpowered flight path where it will be not possible to do a terrian masking flight in low level to avoid air defence
Dear Prasun,
I hope you are in good health. Please respond to all our queries. We are eagerly waiting.
Hello Prasun,
Glad to learn you are working harder to make India stronger, my humble prayers for your continued and consistent digvijay.
Now, with news of bluster from Riasat-e-Madina (Pakistan) to lighting up UT J&K with increased terror and bringing back the memories of defensive central government (at least) in media. Per me, (the same crowing); the situation on the ground is ripe for forward movement and action. Aside the theatrics of opening the Rohtang pass tunnel; please let me know, is there any qualitative change in the infrastructure in the border areas and ease of movement of logistics.
Based on your answers earlier, am I mistaken to understand that with couple of divisions of fighting force engaged in the Eastern frontline, India cannot concurrently take care of the Western borders so Gilgit Baltistan cannot be liberated owing to this for now. Does it sound good from resource management perspective, in spite of having such a humungous standing army and saying the forward movement is not possible for now. Please let me know.
Is India waiting for the moons, planets and stars to align for assured success in the battlefield. With so much resources not used optimally; the situation is of a perineal under-achiever. Thanks, Ganesh
Sir, two questions,
1. The recent test of Shaurya missile is said to be of an improved version of the missile. What is the nature of those improvements? Do they involve increase in range/payload? If so, by how much?
2. The image link below shows a Prithvi missile without any of its fins. What variant of Prithvi is this?
https://images.app.goo.gl/CcuDukqfL6FCKDiF8
Prasun da,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvZDSWuClnA
What is your view on Major(Retd) Gaurav Arya revelation on OFB working, Insas Rifle and Operation Parakaram
He also reveals a factory in Kanpur (perhaps MKU) supply gears to NATO - when our Indian Armed Forces will buy directly - have MOD don't know about it. A good amount of money can be saved and utilized for other weaponry purchase.
OFB employee going on Indefinite work strike from Oct 12 - should not be Indian Workers Union be ban - have these employees no sort of patriotism only Indian Armed Forces are expected to have
Evening sir, hope u r doing good these days.
Nice informative thread sir as always.
Questions-
1) what weapon load can LCH carry at high altitude to execute it's targets? Obviously ATGM won't work above 14000ft as u told so how many rockets n gun ammunition can it carry?
2) LUH to get EO pod, maws, EW suit in its FOC version?
3) same as above for LCH except EO pod?
4) why govt not increasing defence budget to at least 2.5% of GDP?
5) shaurya to productionise now?? Or again in thanda basta?
6) why IAF/IA don't release GSQRs for next gen high speed helicopter that may be needed after 10-15yrs or so?? At least if they release any such document to aise project k liye needed fundamental aerodynamic reasearch to start kia ja sake..
6) one china ditched at speed of PM during inaugration of ATAL tunnel? Tibet or anya desho mei log yaha se jaate rahe hai... Like so?
7) out of context question, if govt chahe to kya IPC-CRPC ko rewrite krva skti hai? So that maximum loopholes band kiye jaye or punishment change & much more strict kia jaye n juidicial system ko theek kia jaye? N yeah laws be written in most easy to understand language. Basically overhauling of whole juidicial system including changes to be made in constitution. For ex freedom of expression made conditional etc. Media made fully accountable for fake news etc.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/the-bearded-man-is-pakistan-army-helping-china-deal-with-indias-mountain-warfare-forces-at-lac-video/661926
Is this fake news or true?
To KAUSTAV: VMT. The ‘jostling’ that you have alluded to is not meant for short-term territorial gains, but for long-term objectives. By now, it is amply evident that the PRINCOPAL AIM of China was to tie down the IA’s mountain warfare forces all along the LAC so that the IA would not be able to muster the kind of fighting strength necessary for any kind of salaami-slicing of PoK AFTER Pakistan had announced its intention of going forward & permanently annexing Gilgit Baltistan. Hence, if one goes by the timelines in a sequential manner from last October, then everything falls in place & makes sense. India unfortunately cannot do much by way of tactical offensives of any sort against anybody simply because the IA & IAF do not have the necessary superiority in both numbers & quality reqd for guaranteed success of any short-lived & high-intensity military campaign against either of the two adversaries. This also explains why the PLAAF has deployed only six of its KJ-500 AEW & CS platforms at only Shigatse & Hotan while evacuating from Lhasa Gonggar where apron upgradation works & HAS constructions are now in full-swing, i.e. the PLAAF is not in need of any AEW & CS coverage for airborne battle management in that stretch of LAC from Uttarakhand all the way to Arunachal Pradesh!. So, six PLAAF AEW & CS platforms along with the PAF’s 11 AEW & CS platforms are more than enough to deny the IAF any kind of decisive adge all along the western front as of now.
And everyone knows the reasons for India’s current lack of offensive war preparedness, i.e. the never-ending process of agreeing on the future shape of the IA in terms of restructuring & re-balancing; the never-ending delays in operationalising India’s tactical TNWs that in turn led to the IA having to maintain large standing forces along the IB with Pakistan & denying India the opportunity to undertake defensive first-strikes with tactical TNWs well within her own territory had the bulk of the IA been redeployed along the WB, LoC & LAC; and lastly thed abysmal state of border transportation infrastructure between 2004 & 2014. Hence, all in all, several lost opportunities since mid-1999 (when India could well have crossed the LoC & permanently gained much more territory inside Baltistan, especially Oltinthang & possibly Skardu), due to which India today finds herself with very few limited options that could be beneficial for her long-term security & interests.
To SANGOS: LoLz! Just as the PLA has been extremely careful NOT TO capture any India-controlled territory in Ladakh (lest China be accused as an aggressor that initiated military hostilities), China knows equally well that India’s armed forces are in no way adequately equipped for waging the kind of limited high-intensity offensive AirLand campaigns aimed at making any form of territorial gains. In other words, China wants to only keep the bulk of the IA’s mountain warfare formations tied to the LAC so that they cannot be redeployed anywhere else.
To VSJ: 1) LoLz! The world does not function through sermonising or preaching of any kind. Instead, the convergence of realpolitik-related objectives/interests shapes the geopolitical/geo-economic landscapes. 2) There was a suspension but it was due to the pandemic. 3) China has ALREADY moved into PoK, starting with Gilgit last year & recently into locations that are only 15km away from the LoC. That’s why I was busy for the past few days for doing recce sorties of Toli Peer, Chinari and Chakothi, where launch-cum-storage sites for both FM-90 & SHORADS LY-80E MR-SAMs are now being built by the FWO under the supervision of the PLAGF’s ground surveyors & civil engineers. 4) With or without QUAD, India has already decided to adopt only the NATO MIL-SPEC specifications & standards that are already being adhered to by the US, Australia & Japan. 5) While Azerbaijan’s sovereignty over Nogorno-Karabakh is internationally recognised, the Orthodox Christian world will not tolerate the revisionist actions of Turkey’s present-day rulers, kindly rest assured.
To HOODS007: 1) I had already explained earlier that the DRDO is trying to do the impossible, i.e. offer an A330-based AEW & CS platform also as a MRTT, i.e. yet another futile attempt at shooting for the stars & aspiring to be a ‘Vishwaguru’ in an arena where failure is 100% guaranteed!!! 2) Additional NETRAS means identical platforms being ordered, i.e. EMB-145 airframes. If a new airframe is chosen, then this will involve at least 4 years of flight-testing for certification purposes, i.e. a no-brainer. Here is the link to that webinar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrlRAQWn2aA&t=8s
To RAJESH MISHRA: The Holy Prophet (PBUH) had foretold that Turkey will be invaded from the north by Orthodox Christian groupings.
To PSS: What needs to be remembered & noted is that the term ‘Sindhudesh’ now being used by all Muslim & non-Muslim natives of Sindh does not automatically translate into an anti-Muslim alliance. For, there are many Muslim Sindhis that will never cease to forcibly convert existing non-Muslim Sindhis in Pakistan.
To HARSH: The reqmnt nos of SAAW are mentioned above in the narrative.
To VENKY: Drones can be shot-down only by quick-reaction terminal air-defence systems, like QR-SAMs & this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_stjlhj1kg
To SUSAN: The IAF has had both HARPYs (since the mid-1990s) & HAROPs (since 2012).
To AARPEE: 1, 2 & 3) All such figures were mentioned in the thread dealing with EX GAGAN SHAKTI-2018.
To NAYANDEEP: LoLz! Why express any such concern about the customised B.777 when the IAF has been flying similarly customised Boeing BBJs (B.737-800s) for the very same missions? In my view, those openly lobbying for India to become any kind of ‘Vishwaguru’ can be characterised as those with a very low-sense of self-esteem, i.e. they always publicly aspire to become leaders/netas, but in reality possess neither the will nor intellect to become one. That’s why India continues to be a country that is ruled, not governed. For the former, archaic rules/laws like the 1864 Police Act is reqd, which was the creation of the colonial rulers whose principal aim was to protect the occupying power & not the people/citizens. The latter means doing away with terms like ‘District Collector’ & instead using terms like ‘District Development Officer’. The day India gets leaders who can undertake an exercise aimed at replacing all these colonial-era laws with contemporary legislations, that will be the time when India can stand on her own feet with ‘desi’ self-confidence.
To RAD: 1) LION is totally different from LTO. 2) Any flight-plan for the IAF is always generated from a mission planning system of the type the IAF had imported from South Africa in the late 1990s & its slide is available in the DEFEXPO-2020 thread. The generated flight plan is next uploaded into the digital map-generator & co-related to the aircraft’s inertial navigation system. It makes no sense for SAAW to be powered by any propulsion system since its airframe is too small. Instead, for destructive purposes, SCALP-EG-type air-launched LACMs are reqd, even for use as air-launched decoys.
To ASD & GANESH. VMT. I was busy for the past few days for doing recce sorties of Toli Peer, Chinari and Chakothi within PoK, where launch-cum-storage sites for both FM-90 & SHORADS LY-80E MR-SAMs are now being built by the FWO under the supervision of the PLAGF’s ground surveyors & civil engineers.
To PRRANSHU YADAV: 1) An upgraded inertial navigation system that is integrated with a NAVIC receiver for receiving Py-code locational coordinates from the IRNSS constellation of satellites. 2) It is the Prithvi SS-150 shown BEFORE its control-fin installation.
To PARTH: LoLz! He is a Uighur native from Xinjiang, several of whom are serving with the PLA, just as there are several Tibetans serving with the PLA.
Will answer the outstanding queries in the following thread.
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