A tripartite memorandum of
understanding (MoU) was signed between the Indian Navy (IN), BARC and Hyderabad-based ECIL on July 10, 2023 in the presence of VADM Dinesh K Tripathi, FOC-in-C, Western Naval Command, and Dr Ajit Kumar Mohanty, Secretary Dept of Atomic Energy.
The MoU aims to facilitate indigenous development and production of 11 types of
control-systems and their multifunctional display/control consoles for the IN’s projected six nuclear-powered attack submarines
(SSN). These include those used by the 90mWt pressurised water nuclear reactors. Such systems were earlier imported from Russia’s JSC Concern Avrora SPA
for the S-2, S-3 and S-4 SSGNs of the IN. Trial-batches of the indigenously-developed and
built control-systems will be delivered to the IN’s Hyderabad-based Defence
Machinery Design Establishment (DMDE) for type-certification, following which formal procurement contracts will be inked. This step would go a long way towards
furthering and augmenting self-reliance within the IN.
76 comments:
Prasun da, is there any new information regarding Indo-French military industrial cooperation for IN SSN project? What all technologies are the French willing to share? What about the 190 MW PWR? Why don't we co-operate with Russians with whom we have already worked on the Arihant? Thanks
Prasunda,
I personally feel they should invite Honeywell too ! Submarine control system is not a matter of joke and both BARC and ECIL is not very experienced in Submarine control systems.
Best regards
To KAPIL: Nothing new so far, but THALES will definitely be involved in co-development of sub-systems like optronic non-hull penetrating masts & sonar suites.
To PARTHASARATHI: US national laws presently prohibit US companies from participating in such projects. If not, then the US would have created an AUKUS-like plan for India. Submarine-control systems for the SSN will be identical to those for the IN’s SSGNs & hence only minimal re-engineering is reqd. Fabrication methodology of such systems will be developed by BARC but will be transferred to the private-sector, most likely the Godrej Group.
As for DDGs, the IN has 10 of them against the stated reqmt for 12 vessels. But what has been missing all these years are platform docks for transporting submarines, and ELINT/SIGINT vessels like these:
https://preview.redd.it/russian-navy-pacific-fleets-k-391-bratsk-nato-callsign-v0-zl2ub0o46up81.jpg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0be8095a76776cb37faf803895dfb0526b12bb1f
https://d3i5hb7w7uz115.cloudfront.net/Pictures/news/content/March%202015/rolldock%20sends%20sub%20to%20vietnam.jpg
https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Type-424-SIGINT-ship-German-Navy.jpg
Sir , recently Zen technologies bagged an export order worth ₹340 crore, approximately $41.5 million, to supply anti-drone systems to an unknown customer. Which country is it ? Is it Armenia or Vietnam?
hi prasun
can the SAAW take out the HAS shelter , ?is the warhead enough
what is the reactor that is going to power the s-3. s-4 , s-5 subs?
how good is the DRDO developed aesa based SPJ and other unified ew suite for the upcoming fighters ?
can they be compared to the Israeli counter parts?
how long can pakistan pull along with f-16s
how good are the chinese z-10 e attack chopper given to Pak. are they equal to the apaches? can the lch take them on?
\
Is there any program to fit MMW radar on the LCH?
Dada in the picture above is it the new ssn model?
Chinese Z10 same as Apache? Did you read the IDRW blog that you are referring to and not read the part that said Pakis were hoping to get the Chuk Chuk country developed helicopter but due to US engines in them they could not hence fell back to the inferior Ching Guo stuff?
HI prasun
Is the brahmos ng a totally Indian design as claimed by drdo?
can u pse give a link to the IDAS that drdo has made for the ALCH?
the weapon pylons on the LCH look thick and un aerodynamic.. will they make it better
the EU is at it again because the kukis are Christians, all violence is bad..will they pass a resolution of embargo ?
Such an embarrassment. All over Youtube you see the Honourable PM saluting the military march past on Bastille day in France in front of the world! Can no one explain to the PM and in fact any Minister of the GOI that they are all civilians and ONLY the POI being the CiC of the military CAN salute OR receive salute?!! On top of that he had the air force salute for the army! I am surprised that the Netas don't get confused between swimwear and underwear.
Hello Sir,
I know u hate him but chutya Iyer-Mitra. I have hate him.
https://t.co/5UTpVoQl9S
Regards
Dhanu
1) Sir can MTCR member countries sell missile above 300km range to each other? While we see a cap on ranges, we have also recieved 550km Scalp for rafale and there is talks of 1000km MDCN for scorpene.
2) sorry for confusion, will SSN reactor be 90 MW or 190 MW? And how far are we from a mature SSN reactor?
3) how did MDL suddenly come up with a full midget sub? Its uses?
Thanks
Prasun,
1- why go for SSN's when IN can have an all SSGN's fleet?
2 - AMCA engine MoU with Safran? where does that leave GE EPE & RR ? will any bit of kaveri engine based indigenous tech be used in this co developed engine? Safran as yet does seems to lag GE & RR in adpative engine design.
3 - Electric propulsion tech collab with the brits-how soon will it materialize?
4- has DRDO finally developed IDAS for LCH? how does it compare with the Saab one?
To ROHIT GILL: It is Armenia.
To RAD: SAAW was never designed t destroy HAS. This slide explains it all:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XbEzZqSa8oM/X3JYExRCeOI/AAAAAAAAUd0/cDAp_uIc3i8abUge5rRBXG557-fPCgtCgCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/SAAW.jpg
The PWRs of S-2, S-3 & S-4 & for the projected 6 SSNs are the third-generation OK-700A/VM-4SG model, generating 89.2mW thermal (29.73mW electric) and producing 18,000hp when using 44% enriched uranium. The PWR was developed by the OJSC N A Dollezhal Scientific Research & Design Institute of Energy Technologies (also known as NIKIET) and which is now part of JSC Atomenergoprom. Such PWRs were series-produced in Izhorsky Zavod, at Kolpino, near St Petersburg, and at the Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant (Afrikantov OKBM). In India, JSC Atomenergoprom authorised the DAE to licence-produce such PWRs. Such PWRs have a total technical service life of 35 years and require refuelling after 17 years.
The PWRs of S-5, S-6 & S-7 SSBNs are OK-650B/OK-650M pressurized water nuclear reactors producing 190mWt (34mWe).
The DARE-developed SPJ suites are not AESA-based. They were all explained here€:
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2019/04/how-modernisation-of-iafs-fleet-of.html
No missile of the BrahMos family is indigenously designed, rest assured. IDAS suite for LCH is the same as that on the Rudra ALH & Dhruv WSI.
F-35 JSF multifunction pods:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fy9DG2OaMAcWzpG?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fy9DC-4aEAA99FS?format=jpg&name=medium
https://www.terma.com/media/twtb3bis/terma_complete_self_protection_systems_a4.pdf
To SUMIT SEN: Yes indeed.
To BHARATIYA: Perhaps a hangover from his RSS parading days!
To VSJ: Yes. 2) The PWRs of S-2, S-3 & S-4 & for the projected 6 SSNs are the third-generation OK-700A/VM-4SG model, generating 89.2mW thermal (29.73mW electric) and producing 18,000hp when using 44% enriched uranium. The PWR was developed by the OJSC N A Dollezhal Scientific Research & Design Institute of Energy Technologies (also known as NIKIET) and which is now part of JSC Atomenergoprom. Such PWRs were series-produced in Izhorsky Zavod, at Kolpino, near St Petersburg, and at the Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant (Afrikantov OKBM). In India, JSC Atomenergoprom authorised the DAE to licence-produce such PWRs. Such PWRs have a total technical service life of 35 years and require refuelling after 17 years.
https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/ncm/
To JUST_CURIOUS: 1) SSNs too will be able to launch cruise missiles, but from torpedo tubes. 2) Kaveri turbofan is of the fourth generation. AMCA’s turbofans will belong to the fifth generation. But so far, only ‘desi’ patrakaars have been speculating about joint-development of AMCA’s turbofans & nothing official has emerged to date. 3) Not exactly electric propulsion, but the Rolls-Royce MT-30 marine industrial gas-turbine. 4) The IDAS is the same that on the Rudra ALH & Dhruv WSI.
@prasun da i knew you won't publish my assessment on pappu campaign funded by 2 biggies and rahul gandhi being proved correct yet again about Ambani 😀
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: That's because you were conflating political conspiracy theories with unrelated business matters. As the following news-report revels, it is the foreign OEM itself that is initiating corrective action:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2023/jul/13/dassault-aviations-rafale-joint-venture-with-anil-ambanilikely-to-be-dissolved-2594310.html
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2023/07/PR_Dassault-Aviation_Selection-Navy-Rafale-for-Indian-Navy-V5.pdf
Building sovereign defence capabilities together:
1.1 France is one of India’s key partners in the development of a self-reliant defence industrial and technological base. India and France are committed to cooperating in the co-development and co-production of advanced defence technologies, including for the benefit of third countries.
1.2 In line with their outstanding cooperation in military aviation spanning over five decades, India and France welcome the timely delivery of the 36 Rafale ordered by India. In the future, India and France will extend their ground-breaking defence cooperation in advanced aeronautical technologies by supporting the joint development of a combat aircraft engine. They also support industrial cooperation for motorization of heavy-lift helicopters under the Indian Multi Role Helicopter [IMRH] programme with Safran Helicopter Engine, France. To enable progress on the IMRH programme, a Shareholders’ Agreement between Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India and Safran Helicopter Engine, France has been concluded for engine development. These ventures are in line with the spirit of trust that prevails between India and France in the sharing and joint development of critical components and technology building blocks, based on the successful Indo-French experience in technology transfer.
1.3 India and France hail the success of the first Scorpene submarine construction programme (P75 – Kalvari), a model of Make in India and the sharing of naval expertise between companies in the two countries. India and France are ready to explore more ambitious projects to develop the Indian submarine fleet and its performance.
1.4 Other examples of this defence industrial partnership rooted in mutual trust include the contract being concluded between Safran Helicopter Engine and HAL for the Transfer of Technology of Forging and Castings for the Shakti Engine. This is also reflective of the French commitment to support technology transfer and Make in India.
1.5 Another such example is the MoU between Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd. (GRSE), and Naval Group France, a leader in European Naval Defence Industry to collaborate in the field of surface ship that caters to fulfil the requirement of India and International Naval forces.
1.6. To this end, both countries are also working towards adopting a Roadmap on Defence Industrial Cooperation.
https://www.elysee.fr/admin/upload/default/0001/15/13ca1dc3c8938ae4ce52f5c53e149ddd251099cb.pdf
The question that now arises is this: If SAFRAN will transfer castings & forgings for the 23-year-old Ardiden-1H Shakti turboshaft engine to HAL, then what will become of HAL's in-house HTSE-1200 R & D efforts? Will the latter now be forelosed?
GTRE Director in France as Part of Visiting DRDO Delegation:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzPRiDUXoAQtISn?format=jpg&name=large
Prasun Da,
Regarding point no.15 the MoU between Garden Reach and Naval Group, to collaborate in the field of surface ship.
Do you recon that GRSE might get such a contract to build surface ships ( perhaps corvettes) along with Naval group at their garden reach facility?
Thanks,
VIKRAM
Prasunda,
Are you sure that Rafale and Scorpene contracts will be signed shortly?
( Shortly mean within a year. )
Best regards
prashun bhai,
isn't the F-35 radar able to perform EW & SAR functions? & the DAS perform IR? then why the pods? & i assumed the aircraft has built-in DIRCM? also, what is the power generation pod for?
re: safran transferring casting & forging tech, seems the french are trying to sabotage or delay indian efforts since they are close to bear fruit. maybe the indian interest to bite is just to check out thier technological process without sacrificing our own. they can't be foolish enough to stop own R&D efforts which will open more doors, surely.
surprised about namo's salute. he's usually smarter than that. he's supposed to have a great team around him.
To VIKRAM GUHA: GRSE has already won the warship-building contracts & the industrial collaboration with NAVAL GROUP will be on lines similar to that for the 4 Project 28 ASW corvettes. Below are the details:
http://www.india.naval-group.com/p-28.html
The MoD on March 30, 2023 signed contracts for 11 next-generation offshore patrol vessels (NG-OPV) and six next-generation missile vessels (NGMV) at a cost of nearly Rs.19,600 crore. Of the 11 NG-OPVs, seven will be indigenously designed, developed and manufactured by Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL) and four by the Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE), Kolkata, at a cost of Rs.9,781 crore. Deliveries are scheduled to commence from September 2026. The contract for the acquisition of six NGMVs was signed with Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL) at a cost of Rs.9,805 crore. Their delivery is scheduled to commence from March 2027.
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/mod-signs-contracts-indian-shipyards-next-generation-vessels-8529003/
PARTHASARATHI: LoL! I’m as sure as the Govt of India & its MoD. I can’t go beyond that, as you may well appreciate.
To BHOUTIK: It is all about sound common-sense, i.e. the F-35’s nose-mounted AESA-MMR can handle directional threats only in the frontal arc. The pod-mounted sub-systems take care of the rest of the 360-degree hemisphere. It does seem that SAFRAN is trying to encourage HAL to terminate the HTSE-1200’s on-going R & D efforts. I cannot fathom any other conclusion/reason. NaMo & Co have been saluting both in India & abroad for the past 9 years, despite me bringing this anomaly to their notice 9 years ago!!!
Prasun Sir,
1) Since which year were prithvi missiles equipped with cluster warheads?
2) You mentioned that the pinaka can be used for remote mining. Can you share some data/pics/brochure about this? I couldn't find any.
3) Has India started production of 155mm and 130mm artillery ammunition with cluster warheads?
4) What is your opinion of the current state of the ukraine war? Who has the upper hand?
5) Is the Indian military intensively studying the russo-ukrainian war?
To HARSH: Answers to all that were provided by me on July 11, 2023 at 7:37AM & June 29, 2023 at 9:11AM.
https://munitionsindia.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/MIL-Brochure.pdf
https://munitionsindia.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/2-Artillery-Ammunition.pdf
https://munitionsindia.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/9-Pinaka-Brochure.pdf
Prasun,
1-there is still no clarity on why Qatar has held indian ex naval officers.. why is India so muted? qatar itself is now the primary funder of jihadis across the world
Sirji, internet is buzzing with Argentina buying Tejas MK1A an aircraft whose TTL is half than its engine's TTL (as per you of-course) and one not in production yet.
What swayed in favor of Rafale M , when you said we have to modify the carrier to accommodate it? US sanction/blackmail fear ?
Dear Prasun,
Is it true that Argentina is inching closer to buy Tejas Mk1A fighter aircraft? India has promised not to use UK based ejection seat and other other elements? Please throw some light upon it.
To DASHU & ASD: LoLz! I had seen similar euphoria between 2002 & 2005 about HAL’s Dhruv ALH & BrahMos-1 being sold to Argentina, Chile & later the UAE. No country is stupid to procure a weapon system that has not even been built thus far. The ONLY country that can be seen as a serious customer for Tejas Mk.1A in future is Vietnam.
Meanwhile, do watch these informative videos:
Boeing EA-18 Growler Walkaround:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei24-xuUB88
How EU Sanctions Against Russia are Failing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7yofon22AM&t=4s
Has China’s Foreign Minister Been Compromised by his Mistress:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lcCg64qx3g
China Prepares for War: A Timeline:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98kMSEkPiLo
Growing Perils of Doing Business in China:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5_uappzUX8
Myanmar’s Air Wars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpvQnIQN2IE
Meanwhile, data emerging from Ukraine indicates that the best interceptors of inexpensive Russia-launched suicide drones are 70mm laser-guided rockets (surface-to-air variants of air-to-surface rockets of the type produced by the US, UK, Israel, Belgium & Turkey). Now BDL last February was showing the FZ laser-guided 70mm rocket developed by THALES:
https://www.fz.be/upload/files/FZ%20brochure/SAL-Laser%20Guided%20Rocket%20FZ275%20LGR%20(Thales)%2002-2021(1).pdf
Is anyone from DRDO paying heed to such developments? I very much doubt it.
Also, I have confirmation from NAVAL GROUP that the 3 to-be-ordered Scorpenes for the IN will have the NMRL/L & T-developed MAREEM AIP module from the outset. To be confirmed is whether these 3 SSKs will be built with HLES-80 steel imported from Arcelor-Mittal or with SAIL-delivered DMR-292/DMR-292A steel.
Alternative views that are not popular on the Ukraine war https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWDFEzBupY
Hi prasun
the 70 mm laser guided rocket seems to be the perfect solution as an airdefence weapon as stated by you. can it also be configured as a low cost SAM to take down cruise missiles and fighters? it becomes un jammable as well.
the aero dynamic configuration also seems very similar to a shoulder fired sam.
will it not be risky putting an un tested AIP on the new scorpenes?
Dada if you have confirmed from NAVAL GROUP about the inclusion of AIP from the beginning then what will be the time line of the project? And any new systems to be include for these 3? What's the status of the torpedo for scorpenes or still we are using SUTs?
What is the realistic time frame for Ukr to win against Russia? Will Russia surrender Crimea? What is the probably that NATO will enter the war?
VEC
@Prasun
500 J-20's by 2025? This should set alarm bells ringing for the IAF and urgent and immediate acquisition of 160+ Rafales would be in order. And frankly, we ought to go beyond the 42 Squadron sanctioned strength benchmark.
What should India do?
Ashish
Prasun sir,
1) Eric Schmidt recently said russia is downing over 500 ukrainian drones (mainly small quadcopters) per day, due to its electronic warfare.
He also said that the width of area that the russian electronic warfare is only 5km, but covers the entire 1500km frontline.
Does India have such capabilities to tackle china or pak?
2) What types of EW systems is russia
using to do this?
3) How many Samyuktha electronic warfare systems have been delivered to the Indian military so far?
4) There was news in 2013, that Tata power SED had been contracted to provide two integrated Mountain EW systems, have these been delivered? Can you share some details about them?
To RAD: It is all about the cost: benefit ratio, i.e. such very short-range guided 70mm rockets are best used against subsonic drones. Against subsonic cruise missiles & combat aircraft the SHORADS like India’s QR-SAM & Germany’s IRIS-TSML are the best options. Shoulder-launched VSHORADS are best employed against attack helicopters & other types of helicopters.
To SUMIT SEN: I had already given the timelines here:
https://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2023/01/mareem-aip-plug-in-module-for-indian.html
Everything now depends on the MAREEM AIP’s sea-trials & subsequent type-certification. Metal-cutting for the 3 new Scorpenes will begin next year & their AIP modules should be available from 2028 onwards & thus the 3 new SSKs will enter service only in the following decade’s early part. The HWT will most likely be the wire-guided variant of Varunastra.
To VEC: Ukraine won’t win the war against Russia as the war has now reached a stalemate after Russia captured the territories it needed to since 2014. That’s why Russia has built extensive ground-defence infrastructure since it too does not wish to proceed any further, as this video aptly explains:
True Size of Russian Defenses in Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb7ORi4Axos
To ASHISH: LoLz! Looks like you too have fallen for all the rumour-mongering & disinformation dissemination being done by this Germanic Caucasian:
https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1680945248921350149
Series-production of J-20 began in 2015 & their deliveries began in 2018 at a rate of 16 per annum. You can do the math to obtain the current size of the J-20 fleet. This very same Germanic Caucasian has for long been spreading rumours about 80+ carrier-based J-15s being produced to date, when the actual number is only 24 & that’s precisely the reason why the PLAN’s two aircraft carriers have NEVER gone out to sea at the same time. If you really want to know what is the true state of the PLA, especially that of the PLAN, then do watch these:
PLAN Scandals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im8stY3m_yU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xznjAzTegc
PLA Weaknesses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leUA196RDNk
Prasunda,
All jets whether it's stealth or non stealth will leave a jet plume behind. That jet plume is having a temperature of almost 700 -900 degree Celsius, immediately after the jet. And the surrounding is minus 35-45 degree Celsius. Now why DRDO is not trying analyze that jet plume from space ? Considering no commercial flight travel over Himalayas ! And there is hardly any clouds at Tibetan plateau as well as commercial airfield. So jet flight can be tracked from lower space , if someone can invent a thermal camera of that sensitive. If possible then we can easily track a J20 or any jet aircraft while flying over Himalayas! DRDO should think on this line !
Best regards
Prasun
With regards to your response - RAD on 15-Jul-2023 11:36 AM
If the PWR on S-2 SN (OK-700A/VM-4SG model) with a thermal capacity of 89.2 mWt is generating 29.73mW electric.
Then, how come the PWR of S-5 (OK-650B/OK-650M) with a thermal capacity of 190mWt is only generating 34mW electric. With more than double Thermal capacity it is hardly giving a bump of 4.3 mW electric.
Is it a typo ? Because a SSBN with 34mWe will able to barely manage a few knots speed
Prasunji,
When we have signed a deal with GE which is touted to be a first with 80% TOT, why development of Engine for AMCA not a pat with GE. It seems Safran of France is in advance stages of a partnership.
What is the rationality behind this?
Hello Sir,
1. The VM 4SG reactor of arihant requires refueling after 17 yrs then why it is being refueled just after 10 yrs?
2. In response to Sumit Sen you said that the model is of future SSN. In my opinion it looks like the design is heavily influenced from the French Scorpene class submarine.
3. What is the status of Shakti thermal HWT?
4. Will the wire guided Varunastra have a fibre optic wire or a copper wire guidance like this? https://www.drdo.gov.in/guidance-wire-torpedoes
5. What will be the yeild of 4 MIRV warheads for K5 SLBM?
Thanks.
Sir, why army does want to lease light helicopters now ? They could have ordered LUH by now . Till it arrives used ALH .
Regards
Venky
Prasun,
1- what is this about --https://idrw.org/dr-samir-v-kamat-confirms-development-of-arjun-mkii-main-battle-tank/
2- India- France MOU on surface ships & subs.. regarding surface ships- are mistrals being considered? wouldn't Navantia's juan Carlos be a better bet with its ski jump? they need to be able to work as light aircraft carriers when reqd..
Prasun da,
1) What are those ambitious submarine projects with India that Naval group mentioned in the joint statement?
2) Apart from some Thales systems and pump jet propulsion system, can we expect French help for a new advanced reactor for our SSNs? This is most crucial for us because we can't have old generation Arihant reactors in our SSN
3) Any news regarding F-21 torpedoes for Kalvari subs? Why is it getting delayed?
4) 26 Rafale are not enough for 2 carriers. So will INS Vikramaditya continue with Migs until TEDBF is ready for production?
5) Why are Akash NG and QRSAM getting delayed?
6) With selection of Rafale M, Dassault is in prime position for IAF contract for 114 jets. But it already has a huge backlog. If selected will Rafale be produced in India?
7) BMP-2 need urgent replacement. Why can't DRDO and private industry collaborate to develop a new ICV based on Zorawar platform?
8) Safran took us for a ride on Kaveri engine development. Can we trust them on ambitious project like AMCA engine?
9) Any update about desi HIMARS being developed by Solar group?
10) What is the current status of S5 SSBN class and its 10,000 km range SLBM development?
Prasun,
3 - https://www.indiandefensenews.in/2023/07/a330-awacs-plan-shelved-focus-now-on.html -- does this now mean that india is now working towards a E 7 wedgetail like AEWC system?
1) Sir can a321 platfrom handle rotodome?
2) pardon i worded my q badly. Do we get full range versions of scalp and mdcn or do we get MTCR compliant 300 km versions?
3) role of our new midget sub? Its delivery was a suprise tbh.
Thanks
Prasun,
4 - Lookslike erdogan is the only privileged one whose support swings basis which side of the bed he gets up --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRZI53ps-ME. Will karma finally catchup with him for playing both sides?
Prasunda,
I still remember your response to one of the queries that common sense has to take over in MoD as resources are scarce and needs to be better managed. And finally now the news of MAREEM AIP making its way on Scorpene.
What your take on the view that it is still not proven AIP while you yourself gave the common sense path on how MAREEM AIP was to be installed in one of the kilo class submarines and then tested for a decade and by this it would be a proven solutions.
Secondly, what happened with Navy selection of Rafale over F/A-18. We all remember how Boeing went gung-ho with all those press releases once the trials were completed and now Rafale has quietly made the cut.
Regards
hi prasun
the iaf has opted for the a319 awacs now... will it be as good as the old boeing e3 awacs?
after all... its decades later gen , will we have the capacity to vector fighters by digital messages or using a light pen ....assign friendly fighter to enemy by just a touching and dragging on the computer screen.?
what are the major obstacle that u feel will be there in making this awacs?
will it be as good a s the SAAB global eye?
why cant we use the experience and make it our desi JSTARS? using the same antenna but suitable frequency change ? i think its x band. can we adapt the same platform to do stand of elint and jamming ?
prasun da
your views on this
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/from-air-superiority-jets-to-layered-defense-ukraine-war/
while I agree with some I totally disagree with last that says good bye close air support
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
Hello Sir,
6. https://twitter.com/PRO_Vizag/status/1667036821426151424?s=20
Any insights on this?
7. https://twitter.com/FrontlinerUV/status/1680636894760300547?s=20
Can you provide links to this seminar?
Thanks.
I tried searching the answer, but did not find anything
Why India is not arming it's helicopter especially attack one with DIRCM?
Any update on 155 mm precision guided shell indigenous?
Wat is India's defence against swadm drone and loitering ammunition of China? In the event of war
Prasunda,
Can Barak 8 will be able to counter YJ 12 ?
Best regards,
Parthasarathi Dasgupta
Prasunda,
Any truth to this ?
https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/1683030440188465153
Satyaki
To PARTHASARATHI: Dissipation of such jet-plumes takes places within seconds—an elementary conclusion as per the laws of physics. Only in stratosphere & exosphere can such plumes be detected by optronic sensors, but never in the atmosphere. Yes, Barak-8 can intercept supersonic ASCMs.
To SK: My mistake, it should be 64mWe.
To SRIKANTH: The deal with GE is an industrial offsets contract, just like what was done with Russia’s UFA Engine Association for the AL-31FP turbofan, i.e. all the casted & forged alloys will be supplied by GE to HAL, which in turn will only do the machining & processing & the final end-product will be shipped back to GE for final-assembly into the Gen-4 F414 turbofan & this final end-product will then be supplied to HAL for installation on the airframes. The deal with SAFRAN/SNECMA Moteurs is totally different in that a wholly new Gen-5 turbofan with 110kN max thrust will be co-designed & co-developed, with specific industrial workshares being distributed between SAFRAN & GTRE. This turbofan’s 130kN thrust variant will be co-developed at a later stage. The workshare being worked out will be similar to the workshare worked out for the co-development of Barak-8 LR-SAM/MR-SAM, i.e. neither side will share with each other any R & D secrets & IPRs but will work together to develop to develop a final end-product whose IPRs will not be shared, but will be held separately. India will be the junior partner due to her status as a nett technology importer. France will be the dominant partner & will thus remain as the principal financial beneficiary as it will share only selected production technologies like what GE is doing. Presently, SAFRAN/SNECMA is lagging behind GE in terms of advanced turbofans since the M88 generates only 75kN max-thrust & needs to be upgraded to a 110kN max-thrust turbofan, whereas GE’s F414EPE had already attained 116kN max-thrust in the previous decade.
To KAUSHIK: 1) That’s because of the Indian PWR using moderately-enriched uranium. If enriched uranium were to be used, then the 17-year half-life would have been attained. 2) External looks from a distance can be deceptive. 3 & 4) It has not been shown at expos since 2018, i.e. priority is being given to developing the Varunastra’s fibre-optic wire-guided HWT version. 5) Both boosted-fission & thermonuclear types.
To VENKY: Because the LUH as it now exists is without a chin-mounted FLIR turret & is also devoid of a self-protection suite. BTW, Mi-17V-5s have started being retrofitted with roof-mounted Dhruti RWRs & €DAR€E/ELBIT-developed MAWS, as these photos reveal:
https://twitter.com/hqwaciaf/status/1681958573042196480/photo/1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1clnXPaIAATqhs?format=jpg&name=large
To JUST_CURIOUS: 1) He is confirming what I had revealed here:
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2017/03/arjun-mk2-mbt-now-firm-reality.html
2) India does not need light carriers since the IN does not operate VTOL combat aircraft like the F-35 JSF. 3) That is 100% FAKE NEWS. Development of the mission management suite & radome-mounted radar has been completed, but since the latter weighs 12.5 tonnes, it definitely cannot go on board a B.737 or A320 airframe. Consequently, airframes like B.767 & A310-300 are under consideration.
To PRATAP: 1) the 3 additional Scorpene SSKs with AIP & supply of sub-systems for the IN’s projected 6 SSNs. 2) No. 3) Because the Varunastra’s wire-guided HWT is under development. 4) 26 Rafales + another 50 TEDBFs for INS Vikrant & IAC-2. 5) Because of certain performance deficiencies that I’m sure will be ironed out in the near future. 6) I already xplained countless times before why no Gen-4 MRCA can NEVER be licence-produced by anyone in this world. 7) FICV has been co-developed by CVRDE & Larsen & Toubro. 8) SAFRAN will deliver. The delivery mechanism has been explained above. 9) Still at the design stage. 10) No new updates.
To VSJ: 1) That is 100% FAKE NEWS. Development of the mission management suite & radome-mounted radar has been completed, but since the latter weighs 12.5 tonnes, it definitely cannot go on board a B.737 or A320 airframe. Consequently, airframes like B.767 & A310-300 are under consideration. 2) Full-range version of SCALP, since India is now a full-fledged member of the MTCR regime. 3) Both L & T & MDSL are developing such submarines for MARCOS. Final winner has yet to be selected.
To ANIONE: I wasn’t the one to recommend MAREEM plug-in on double-hulled Type 877EKM SSKs. That was Joydeep Ghosh. Instead, I had always stated that MAREEM AIP was designed from the outset to go on board single-hulled SSKs like the Scrpene. And before that, the MAREEM AIP will have to be tsted in submerge form in harbour-trials after being mounted on a submerged barge. Rafale-M was selected primarily due to its ease of MRO while on board the aircraft carrier & its greater MTOW.
To RAD: That is 100% FAKE NEWS. Development of the mission management suite & radome-mounted radar has been completed, but since the latter weighs 12.5 tonnes, it definitely cannot go on board a B.737 or A320 airframe. Consequently, airframes like B.767 & A310-300 are under consideration. A319 AEW & CS variant will be identical to the EMB-145I platform, but with 11 command-n-control workstations.
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: You are ASSUMING that the IA will conduct MOUT/FIBUA campaigns on land. That’s why don’t compare what’s happening in Ukraine with India’s future battlefields. Instead, focus on these 2 splendid explanations on hat has gone wrong in Manipur:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOlp9OODy60&t=49s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-0yhP09yvs&t=15s
To KAUSHIK: 1) That is the autonomous version of the Varunastra HWT. 2) Nothing from that seminar has been uploaded anywhere so far. That’s how pathetic organisations like the Aeronautical Society of India are!!!
To SANTOSH: Why no DIRCMs on India’s military helicopters? Because the armed forces have not yet issued any reqmt for such mission avionics. Only The IAF’s B.737BBJ & B.777s for VVIP transport have them. No new updates on ‘smart’ 155mm projectile R & D efforts. Both China’s & India’s swarm drones & loitering/attack drones are not yet suitable for use in high-altitude plateaux.
To SATYAKI: Yes, it is true.
Prasunda,
VMT.
1) Does this mean North Korea would transfer to Pak technology for its thermonuclear warheads as well ?
2) Between India and Pak, whose warheads have higher yields ?
3) Is there any possibility of Pak acquiring ICBMs like the Hwasong 18 from NoKo ? Or will Pak only end up getting canisterized DF-21 equivalents ?
Satyaki
So this update on Mi17 has been done by BRD or HAL...who are the possible suppliers
HI Prasun
it seems the desi developed irst is nearing completion. the specs quoted seem to be exaggerated . how does it compare to the selex skyward irst?
what would be the tech hurdles too over come ?
will it be a cooled system for better sensitivity?. is the su-30 irst cooled?
u said the netra 2 awacs antenna would be the same .. is it configuration? the size can easily be larger given the size of the a320?
Sir, if Arjun MkII is due in 2030 . What about Future tank (RFI was raised recently ) ?
Will there be 3 tanks IA will have : light tank , Arjun and F MBT ?
Regards
Venky
@prasun da
2 things
1. now that Rafale M has been selected for carriers logic says the Mig 29k should be handed over for use by IAF minus tail hooks or should be used for land based maritime ops, AFAIK rafale M for french can also operate from land
2. reports say IAF has opted against deploying A 41 engine for Su 30 mki as due to the modernization the power requirement will be less and can be make do with AL 31 easily. but I think IAF should go for more powerful AL 41 engine so that it can carry 2 Brahmos ALCM, simply bcoz no. of Brahmos ALCM delivery platforms is very small, also we will be down to 26 sqdns in next 5 yrs (if we dont have more plaf=tforms at least we should have platforms to carry more weapons)
3. the way I see it chances of IAF getting anywhere near the minimum 42 squadrons for a 2 front war let alone the 49 approved sqdns is a distant possibility till 2040 ((you have said chances of major war between china India is possible in 2030s, though I believe it will be late 2020s once dust settles on Russias Ukraine SMO)
4. You say 50 TEDBF, that's odd bcoz in that case how can be amortization be done. i think oce TEDBF arrives (possibly around 2035) 26 Rafales Ms should be used by IAF minus tail hooks and all 3 carriers should be flying TEDBF numbering around 18 each ue 54 for INS Vikramaditya and IAC 1 & 2, once 65k or 75k INS Vishal arrives (probably sometime after 2040) most probably it will operate 36 to 40 TEDBF as well as 12-15 TEDBF at INS Hansa practicing from SBTF, so the total number comes to around 100 TEDBF,
correct me if wrong & your views
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
@prasun da
you might have noted
Kissinger, Blinken, Yellen, Kerry all have trooped into China from USA in last couple of months
any idea why
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
@prasun da
you say what went wrong in Manipur, well everything and a lot of clusterfyck by the meitei
1. COCOMI the umbrella meitei organization issued directive to not surrender weapons as a result IA and MP were forced to file FIR on sedition and terrorism against them\
2. promoid singh meitei on camera to karan thapar accepted and declared of plan in motion to annihilate kiki, sumi and naga grom manipur
3. meitei women formed human wall between meirtei militants and IA/ MP / CAPF
4. CM Brien Singh on camera accepting that more such horrific videos exist and to stop its spread the internet was shutdown but then when it was opened few days later this video came out, good chance Manipur viral video was leaked by bjp itself to stop repercussions from kirit sommaiya viral video. as for taking any action don't worry when ajay mishra teni brijbhushan singh weren't sacked or removed there is no chance that biren singh will be sacked or govt removed
5. biren singh mocked all by 1st signing a resignation letter and then handing it to meitei women who promptly tore it. then he declared wont put down papers
6. governor anusuya uike has on record said she sent all detILS happening in manipur but nothing happened
so everything has gone wrong
i have said this repeatedly, RSS has been sowing seeds of hatred since last 40 yrs, unfortunately the divisive gameplanm of BJP / RSS has succeeded in Uttarakhand Manipur, it will blow out of hand if we repeat the #mistake of 2014, 2019 again in 2024
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
Prasunda,
Who is this Mr. Joydeep Ghosh ? His posts or questions are mostly agenda driven ! He doesn't have any knowledge on any branch of military science! However, I have read few articles of his at IDRW. All are based on fantasy, rather on science or finance. Few days back he was abusing a fellow enthusiast without any reason. My personal opinion is, that this gentleman should be reminded about the basic decency should someone follow in a open internationally acclaimed blog.
Best regards
Prasun,
1 what do you make of this --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwJg5cd7Zgo
2 if safran will keep its part of tech knowledge with itself like barak 8 plan then what is India gaining? why didn't India opt for RR offer of total IPR which was about developing a brand new engine & not one dervied from Eurojet?
3 on Arjun mk2 .. there was a recent news of 120mm smoothbore gun development why not 130mm one? https://idrw.org/arde-to-develop-advanced-main-gun-for-next-generation-main-battle-tank/
4 French offer of F21 & scalp for scorpene. is it an attempt to kill Varunastra & lrlacm
5 why does MoD allow duplication of efforts - midget subs in ths case being developed by both MDL & L&T. scare funding could be better utilized if they worked on diff projects
6 Some low level US state rep having photo op with Asif Munir.. are the on-off lover trying to get back?
Prasunda,
Indian Navy should follow this propulsion system !
https://fb.watch/m06KhsQOkI/?mibextid=Nif5oz
This propulsion can be license built at ABB Baroda.
The propulsion circuit will be BHEL gasturbine, BHEL alternator, LNT switchboard and ABB azimuth propulsion. All made in India. Yes it's possible.
Best regards.
Problem is that people can not differentiate between utter Tribalism and mindless Religiosity Inspired Hatred? What about Bongol Kheda (Expel Bengalis) movement in Brahmaputra Valley started from 1948 onwards under the garb of 'Assamese Identity', how a refugee camp comprising of Bengali 'Hindu' Community was massacred by the Bengali-speaking Muslims 'Miya' mainly from Barak Valley in collusion with Assamese 'Hindu' Mobs. How Hindu 'Mobs' of Assams, torched, looted, threatened Hindu Bengali Communities, with similar muted response from the INC led central Government. That program led to mass exodus of Bengalis as refugees to Assam. That pogrom continued to 1950s, 1960s, 1970s until 1980s. Do you know what 'AASU' is. The rioters (Assamese 'Hindu' even instigated Tribal communities in Meghalaya to target Bengalis in Shillong in Meghalaya ? Was it religiosity inspired hatred or hatred targeted towards an elite community to forcefully occupy their land and capture the jobs ?
Regarding Church burning incident there are instances of Both Meities and Kukis indulged in burning of each other's churches.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbT39tXCNgw&t=1s
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-q6ekDCyYE&t=1s
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOlp9OODy60&t=755s
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFTD-xhQCpc&t=95s
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioRnpUSogG0&t=1s
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x6ZE3TB4Y8&t=1146s
Manipur's war on drugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooTF5RkqLpI
Possible role of Drug Money:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKqXGHqV7iw
I am outrightly on the opinion of MHA's utter failure to deal with the situation, though imposition of President's Rule is the last option, one could think of, similarly criticism should be faced by PM for his silence over 77 days, SCI should have been more proactive since, that order have been passed in March. There is a process called 'Judicial Review'.
Yes, RSS have an agenda. But if somebody see that angle in North Eastern Violence, that one in Manipur, hence, he or she is living in Virtual Reality.
@symant bhai
meitei are hindu they dont have church and I said promod singh meitei on camera to karan thapar accepted and declared of plan in motion to annihilate kuki, sumi and naga grom manipur, check the video.
i have said this repeatedly, RSS has been sowing seeds of hatred since last 40 yrs, unfortunately the divisive gameplanm of BJP / RSS has succeeded in Uttarakhand Manipur, it will blow out of hand if we repeat the #mistake of 2014, 2019 again in 2024
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
Who is Symant here ?
This is the second time you are misspelling my name.
Seems like you are hell bent on proving RSS BJP angle in Manipur Violence, which is purely a form of ethnic Tribal violence with influx of drug money active involvement of drug curtail:
BTW, Tribalism does not care for Religious Brotherhood.
That's the reason why Pakhtun's do not care about religion of Pakistani Panjabis before the massacre at Army School. That's the reason why converted kukis instead of joining Colonial Army, decided to fight the same Army, and You forgt especially Bongol Kheda (Expell Bengalis). Read my posts above.
Check the video and be ashamed to learn History from a Britisher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbT39tXCNgw&t=1s
Involvement of Drug Money :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKqXGHqV7iw
Incompetency of Biren Singh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bxKEWHwl_E&t=6s
Perspective of Meity Community:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTAxCGGVft8&t=841s
These are the videos to educate yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x6ZE3TB4Y8&t=1147s
18:00 Check the statement of Babu Verghese, at least 4 Churches of Meitie Christian Communities have been destroyed by Kukis.
Will answer the outstanding queries in the next thread later today.
@sumant / সুমন্ত নাগ
i can never forget about anti Bengali riots of Assam my maternal family lost almost all their assets including houses burnt and all land holdings illegally captured by asssanese speaking hindus except for a few next to Bengal Assam border they had exchanged with people moving to east Pakistan.
thanks
Joydeepghosh
@sumant
as I said promod singh meitei on camera to karan thapar accepted and declared of plan in motion to annihilate kuki, sumi and naga grom manipur, check the video. there's photographic proof of him in rss uniform if I am not mistaken
yes drug problem is their in manipur but its a problem for entire northeast.
fact is that biren singh wanted to consolidate hindu meitei votes who total almost half of the total population and some say the meitei demand for scat status equal to other kuki sumi
in court that was affirmed by court had his blessings
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
Read my above post, it is nothing about RSS-VHP Staff in Hills. Tribes do not care for religion. Check out the video of Professor James Ker Lindsey as I have stated. Pramot Singh is Right in his statement, Kukis are not indigenous, same stands for Naga and Chin Tribes.
And You are referring to this :
https://thewire.in/video/watch-meitei-leepun-pramot-singh-karan-thapar-manipur-violence-kukis
Pramot Singh has warned PM here. Have you heard ever previously any Sangh Activist directly threaten another Sangh Hierarchy openly ? It is even unheard of in all Religiosity based organization in World.
Role of Sangh is nothing here. It is evident that he is not using his 'Sangh' identity but his 'Meity' Tribe Identity.
Check the video of Professor Lindsey here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbT39tXCNgw
@sumant / সুমন্ত নাগ
it is about refusing to pay head to writing on wall. as i said earlier that there are too many examples you can see for truth but refusing to, that enough proof that promod singh is a rss guy with him in rss uniform
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
@ Joydeep Ghosh, it is you who is bluntly refusing the reality. In a religiosity inspired organisation / authoritarian party no body dare to warn hierarchy. If that happens, it is an example for that organisation to have no control on that particular person. For your instances, you have failed to provide any link to back up your claim/hypothesis. Where I have already posted links. Any continuous claim without any backup tantamount to propaganda.
Anyway, reality bites:
1. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/manipur-video-fir-over-social-media-posts-alleging-involvement-of-rss-functionary-son/article67114829.ece
2. https://www.indiatvnews.com/fact-check/manipur-horror-fact-check-social-media-posts-claim-alleged-hand-of-rss-members-in-violence-subhashini-ali-fake-post-2023-07-24-882789
Regards.
Regards
@সুমন্ত নাগ / sumant nag
it ain't my job to spoon feed you facts but fact is that the govt has done its best to manufacture religious and tribal tensions between majority meitei and sumi kuki Naga tribal to consolidate hindu meitei votes who total almost half of the total population
i have said this repeatedly, RSS has been sowing seeds of hatred since last 40 yrs. unfortunately the divisive gameplan of #BJP / #RSS has succeeded in #Uttarakhand #Manipur, it will blow out of hand if we repeat the #mistake of 2014, 2019 again in 2024
good chance #Manipurviralvideo was leaked by #bjp itself to stop repercussions from #kiritsommaiya #viralvideo. as for taking any action don't worry when #ajaymishrateni #brijbhushansingh weren't sacked or removed there is no chance that #birensingh will be sacked or govt removed
and all that is capped by the below video 👇 where ladakh bjp mp wife herself says in front of her husband that how the case against kanhaiya Kumar was manufactured and look at how shamefully the mp smiled 😠
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DBbpaUfp3ow
if you still can't digest facts none can help you
thanks
Joydeep ghosh
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