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Saturday, June 7, 2014

China's Home-Grown Hierarchical, Integrated Air-Defence System Solutions

 Long-Range Sensors
Long-Range SAMs
Medium-Range Sensors
Medium-Range SAM
The LY-80E’s maximum/minimum interception altitude is 18km/15 metres, while its maximum interception range for combat aircraft is 40km, and between 3.5km and 12km for cruise missiles flying at an altitude of 50 metres at a speed of 300 metres/second. Single-shot kill probability is a claimed figure of 85 per cent against combat aircraft, and 60% against cruise missiles.The MR-SAM rounds are cannisterised, and are cold-launched in vertical mode. The missile guidance system is of the composite type, comprising initial independent inertial guidance plus intermittent illumination, and semi-active homing terminal guidance. A single LY-80E MFV can engage four targets simultaneously, and the entire system has a reaction time of 12 seconds. The MR-SAM round’s weight minus the launch tube is 615kg, while that with the launch tube is 1,300kg. Missile length is 5.010 metres, diameter is 0.340 metres, maximum missile overload is 25 G, and the cruising speed on a high and long trajectory is more than 750 metres/second.
A single GV controls two to four MFVs, with six rounds of MIT equipping each MFV. The SV comes equipped with a solid-state S-band 3-D passive phased-array radar mounted atop a raisable mast. Once the target is detected, the SV performs automatic IFF, threat judgment, flight path processing and provide target engagement information for the tracking-and-guidance radar. The S-band radar has a slant range of 140km and can detect targets flying at an altitude of 20km. Up to 144 targets can be monitored, and of these, 48 can be tracked. The GV performs target acquisition and tracking, and identification of target-types. It also controls the missile-launching and illuminates the target after the missile is fired. The L-band passive phased-array radar atop the GV has a range of 85km, can detect up to six targets and track four of them, and provide fire-control/guidance for up to eight MR-SAM rounds. The L-band tracking radar adopts a two dimensional phase-scanning system that consists of sub-systems such as an antenna, feed line, beam controller, transmitter, receiver, frequency source, signal processing, software and data processors, servo unit, anti-jamming sub-system, antenna base, cooling unit and simulator. It searches and tracks the targets, measures the 3-D coordinate data and sends it to the fire-control unit, which in turn receives target indication information and combat orders from the CV, and organises the fire-channels for engaging the targets. Besides, it also reports the operational and equipment statuses of the MFV.
VSHORADS Sensors & Weapons
Export-Only Solutions
In Addition to the above, CETC, CPMIEC and NORINCO have since 2002 developed several types of customised, country-specific air-defence systems ranging from LR-SAMs to VSHORADS (see below) solely for export in Africa, Central/South America,  the Middle East and Southeast Asia.


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

CMP 2014 is out at:

Anonymous said...

Hi Prasun

I just wanted to ask that how long will it take to integrate Barak 8 with the Russian LESORUB-E CMS ?

Thanks in Advance

kittu said...

faulty map is shown on the cover page and repeated again and again in the inner pages wrt kahmir, GB etc

DAshu said...

Kittu sadly this is the real indian map and will be forever. India cannot take back POK .

DAshu said...

from previous thread - " No wonder Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif & Sartaj Aziz during their meeting with NaMo requested India to appoint ministerial-level special representatives for discussing two issues: conflict resolution & a mutually agreeable final solution for the J & K issue; & Afghanistan. "-- this says a lot . it clearly says people of Kashmir were never in picture for Pakistan.

Vikrant said...

Commenting after a very long time.
1)what is your opinion of the SPYDER
SAM systems in use by IAF?
2)Which of the two Afghan presidential candidates is favorable to India?
3)Which defense deals are expected to be signed this fiscal?NMRH deal
signing likely?
4)I think giving Jaitely additional charge of MoD a good move as right now everything is finance-related in MoD in the runup to budget.
5)why are people panicking over Russia attempts to sell a few choppers to Pak Russia wont be naive to let go of the Indian market for a bankrupt ruin like Pak?

Besides,I didn't know that Russia selling a few Mi-17s to Pakistan is such a big news for our western neighbor celebrating as if salvation has arrived,Irrelevant Dolts.

Jaidev said...


Your front-runner for the Indian LHD contract - Spanish Juan-Carlos ship is in trouble. Have a look.

In comparison, almost every Euro-American soul in pleading against French sale of Mistral to Russia.

So which one would be better for us?

RD said...

The Chinese have made tremendous progress in defence. Now what we know that only few countries such as Russia, Ukraine, Israel do arms trade or provide tech to China. But recent Chinese technologies are more or less equivalent to US or European ones (though not qualitatively) atleast conceptually eg. J20,Y-20, various hardwares as shown in this thread,etc. How this is possible. Now India despite getting opportunity to work with US & European OEM's still lagging behind such technology.

Anup said...

Are the sikhs after independence again?

Anonymous said...


What is the status of DRDO AEWCS Embraer? There has been no news on this lately?

Additionally, where is the LCH TD-3? Everybody seems to be muted about this as well.


F said...


A Malaysian company has signed an MOU with the Chinese to sell GAPU the LY-80. The question is whether GAPU has such a requirement.

I've been told that the MKMs are using data links to ''talk'' to each other. Any idea if the data link is Link 11 or a Russian one?

What is opinion as to why the USAAF decided to send 6 F-22s to perform DACT against RMAF MKMs and Hawks for Cope Taufan? Aren't F-22s and overkill to train with the RMAF?

Bhaswar said...

Long time Prasun Da,

What do you make of the the past few days? Honbl. PM Modi Ji's decision to have the secretaries of every union ministry report to his principal secy every fortnight directly seems to be a move in the right direction, cogent policy formulation and streamlining to be seen in the days to come.

Also what are the odds that the current government will finally bite the bullet and institute the post of CDS and run an integrated MoD with uniforms and civvies working together in a joint ministry? Somehow I don't have much faith in ANY government when it comes to this, some notions and POVs are just far too deeply entrenched.

Jaitley Ji had mentioned that there will be a proper appointment for the post of Raksha Mantri soon, what's the cause behind not having appointed that portfolio separately during the initial cabinet formation itself? Any idea as to who might take up the baton, anyway whoever he or she is they can't be worse than the Saint, right? Jaswant Ji is out unfortunately or else he would have made a fine RM.

Any hope of finally getting done with the following-

a) Strategic defence review with the services and babus finally getting together under one roof and the mantris actually listening to them. Hopefully the Raj Babbar style of CCS functioning is over. Finally get the recommendations of the Naresh Chnadra Committee online perhaps?

b) Getting our nuclear doctrine beyond the "draft doctrine" phase and actually qualifying the term "no first use". For example, in the future, would an ASAT attack on Indian sats be considered an enemy first strike given that such a move could very well be the blinding shot before a nuclear salvo is unleashed?

c) Fitting the defence expenditure into a planned scheme (non-lapseable funds and all that, last time I'd asked you'd said we'd have to wait for the elections results for any forecast on the matter) rather than the year by year ad hoc model. MAYBE THE LTIPP 2007-22 WILL FINALLY GET IMPLEMENTED?

d) 100% FDI in defence, skeptical of this, can't imagine substantive ToT no matter what the cap on FDI maybe. It would require the formulation of tough laws upon which said cap (or well, no cap)would be contingent and stringent enforcement of said laws to ensure that we can actually accrue any benefit from said move, no?

Bhaswar said...

e) Real support to folks like Kalyani, get them the firing range access at least, before we run after FDI we should be getting the Bharat-52 and Kestel+LAMV going.

f) Even the last NDA government didn't have a good record when it came to utilizing the uniforms and the intelligence/advise/data collated and presented by them, think it will be radically different this time?

On a divergent note, Baru Sahib personally swore that Mani Shankar Ji is an avowed lefty, (not to mention Baru sahib's own prior ideological bent of mind, having once belonged to my father's lot of old lefty circle of friends) anyway, how does a lefty (Mani) get to be so elitist and disdainful of the humble peasant lot (tea sellers et al)? The fellow is still writhing away in his agony and has recently decided to brand Tharoor a turncoat (hilarious that, given that Tharoor probably carries a different coat for each occasion). Do you think he might just end up imploding in the near future, its a serious question, I can foresee a serious nervous breakdown about to occur, no?

Btw, Dinanath Batra (of Doniger fame) is up and about in full steam ahead mode trying to get the current government to listen to him about changing the NCERT course etc. Think he's going to be indulged?

Also VK Singh getting the MoS (independent charge) NE was a relief, with all due respect to the much distinguished soldier, a MoD post could have turned out to be a bad move. Anyway, what do you think will be his contribution towards getting the infra required by the armed forces in the NE set up? SARDP-NE to get a new lease of life perhaps? Maybe the Kaladan project too?

Btw, what do you make of the recent border clashes between BD and Burma?

Also do you think POTA will be coming back in force, if so then how will it be of benefit

Pintu said...

Prasun Da,

First thanks for coming up of with such vivid description prevailing Air Defence System of PRC, first of its kind I recon, taking account of this, it appears that :

a)PRC did what ought to be done by a nation aspiring for self sufficiency , by synchronizing R & D capability with dedicated university level back up with more resource allocation to prioritised area, taking users , for coming up to present situation, where part of those technology being used for garnering money from export by the very manufacturers acquiring the know-hows, that means return of Investment with creation of job. That exactly what an export-oriented policy should be.

2) By contrast, I think there is apparent lack of cooperation or understanding between DRDO, MoD & users, i.e. as you have mentioned, that it appears that no body set an objective before DRDO, for development of tech related to specific needs, that means policy makers in MoD, failed miserably in setting up of objectives, ironically most of the time it was INC rule, that implies, even decades after emergence after DRDO, we have to import MANPADS

In this regard, I intend to have some queries :

1. Can the cues from the PRC may be taken , and approach may be taken towards having effective Air Defence System, in the ways of Chinese, if any planning done, then can you kindly enlighten about the same ?

2. The NDA under Narendra Modi assumes office, so now we can expect DRDO should be make aware of the objectives drawn upon the requirements of the service chiefs, with the reports of the HAL chief seeking clarification from the Government about major projects ?

3. May there be some course correction about DRDO's BMD programme depending upon criteria by the three services?

4. Can JV may be formed on BMD systems, eyeing to export as such HQ-9 ?

Regarding the Last thread,

5. How is the potentiality of the SKYLENS system in Indian Civil & Military needs since, there are ALGs, and civilian helicopter services in remote areas of NE. I recon this product of Elbit should generate huge interest.

6. Given to Chinese advancement in Rocketry do they really operate Rocket Sled in their country or do they take outside help by using foreign facility as such there's a news of South Africa being keen on recently operated Penta Rocket Sled in TBRL.

Thanks in advance.


Dear Prasun,
GoI has been able to recover 1,818 crore rupees. But what will happen to the three helicopters procured from Italy. They are found to be mothballed. Will India return them or use it for luxury travel of IAF personnels???

Slava said...

Sir :
What is the status of the shurya (k15) missile . Is is in production ? Has it been deployed on TELs ? Does it have an active seeker to target ships ? Is this ability being looked into . Why do you think there is so little publicity of the k series missiles as opposed to the agni missile ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@5.46AM: If all the hardware is available for fitment, structural integration won’t take more than 60 days. Electronic integration will not be with the LESORUB-E CMS since the Barak-8/ELM- 2258 ALPHA APAR radar combination will function as a standalone sensor/weapon system on board INS Vikramaditya.

To DASHU: The only realistic lasting solution is to convert the LoC into a permanent border—a solution long favoured by the US & also by India since 1972. However, the opposition to this always came from Pakistan, which wanted to have & eat the entire cake. Post-1991 after the Cold War ended & following the dehyphenation of India-Pakistan by the US, Pakistan lost its earlier privilege of being treated as an equal of India (Pakistan had insisted since 1952 that it be treated on par with India with respect to both rewards & punishments). This in turn resulted in Pakistan being treated as a junior partner & thus India’s negotiating clout increased. Mian Mohd Nawaz Sharif had realised this way back in mid-1997 & he consequently decided to dust off the 4-point formula originally crafted by Field Marshal Ayub Khan in 1964 for J & K’s dispute resolution, & after May 1998 this became known as the Chenab Formula. This very same formula was adopted by President/COAS of PA Gen Pervez Musharraf since late 2003, but it had a caveat: it had to be submitted for a referendum 15 years after its implementation to the people of J & K. That was as far back as 2007. Today the ground realities have changed. India is an economic force to reckon with, with great latent potential; while a financially bankrupt Pakistan is oozing with religious/sectarian strife; while Hamid Harzai in Afghanistan has consolidated his political gains beyond all expectations. Furthermore, India has effectively neutralised Pakistan’s sub-conventional warfare activities along the LoC by opening a new front in Pakistan’s largest province—Baluchistan--with the help of an ever-willing Afghan Riyasat-e Amniyat-e Milli, or the National Directorate of Security (NDS). This in turn has left Nawaz Sharif with no other choice but to accept the 4-point formula as a lasting, permanent solution, which now also enjoys the official backing of both China & the US, thereby squashing all opposition emanating from the Pakistan Army. An emboldened Sharif is therefore seeking from NaMo a kind of strategic economic depth within India by enticing India Inc to set up JVs in Pakistan & jointly reaping the economic benefits from Central Asia, & possibly reverting back to the the kind of soft borders that prevailed prior to the 1965 war. Of course India will positively reciprocate such moves, provided the LoC is formally adopted as a permanent border (a move formally endorsed by China, the US & the EU) & India is granted land transportation transit rights via Pakistan (through Punjab, Khyber-Pakthunkhwa, Jammu & the Wakhan Corridor).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRANT: 1) It is an excellent SHORADS. 2) Any of them, since both of them are friendly towards India & value the scale of Indian socio-economic investments in Afghanistan. 3) NMRH, CH-47F & the LW-155 deals. 4) He should revive the 2004-vintage concept of Non-Lapsable Defence Modernisation Fund. 5) That’s primarily due to prevailing regressive mindsets.

To JAIDEV: It was never ‘my’ frontrunner. The IN prefers it. And it isn’t in any trouble, since shakedown trials are held for this very purpose, i.e. identifying glitches in systems calibration.

To RD: It’s possible due to enormous financial investments made in 1) indigenous R & D; 2) going all-out since late 1991 to procure systems design & production-engineering know-hows from CIS & CAR member-states; & 3) Actively engaging in buy-outs of technological know-how through selective procurements from countries like France, Spain, South Africa & Israel since the late 1980s. India on the other hand NEVER made appreciable investments in homegrown military R & D. Consequently, licenced-production of MiG-21s & MiG-27Ms never helped at all in developing the Tejas Mk1 MRCA, licenced-production of Su-30MKIs isn’t helping India to develop the Tejas Mk2 MRCA, & licenced-production of Rafales will not in any way help the AMCA.

To ANUP: The Sikhs at large were never in favour of seceding from the Indian republic. 72% of the total number of fatal casualties incurred during the Punjab insurgency were due to family blood feuds over land ownership, while several others settled their personal scores & fled abroad (absconders from the law) by giving the excuse of political persecution for seeking political asylum. The main problem at that time was the constant infighting between the seven Panthic Committes & various ‘Taksals’—with both aspiring for greater financial control over religious donations from within India & from abroad, just like rival mafias fighting one another. Back in the early 1980s right through to 1984, it was extremely easy to smuggle truckloads of small arms & ammo of Chinese origin through West Punjab (via Rajasthan & Lahore) for arming the private militias of the rival ‘Taksals’, since the Pakistan Rangers was a totally corrupted force right up to its HQ-level & it was ever-willing to engage in business activities with its BSF counterparts in several cases. All this has been revealed for the very first time in the memoirs of former ISI regional commander for Punjab & former director-general anti-corruption establishment for Punjab, Brig (Ret’d)) Muhammad Aslam Ghuman. Those days are now long gone & will never come back again.

To ASHISH: One cannot expect swift progress on such R & D ventures at a time when only an interim budget was available up till now. Only after the new fiscal budget is presented in early July will the reqd funds be put to good use.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To FARIS: Welcome back after a prolonged absence! Aneka Bekal Sdn Bhd inked the MoU with ALIT for not just promoting the LY-80E MR-SAM, but also the FN-16 VSHORADS (which Bernama & Jane’s failed to mention). This same company is the agent for CPMIEC, ALIT & CSTC & was responsible for the sale of FN-6 MANPADS to the Malaysian Army. Now, with the LY-80E on offer, the KS-1A/C MR-SAM is no longer on offer. Although the TUDM/RMAF wants MR-SAMs, the Malaysian Army-dominated GAPU wants Starstreak MANPADS to replace the Starbursts & Iglas & Anza Mk1s. Su-30MKMs don’t require data-links to ‘talk’ to one another. They can do so using on-board VHF/UHF radios.

As for the USAF’s F/A-22 Raptors making their maiden Southeast Asian deployment in Malaysia, it was an extremely well-thought move by both Malaysia & the US. The latter could not count on either Thailand or Singapore to host the Raptors as both are heavily dependent on China’s goodwill for economic survival & don’t want their investments inside China to be destroyed by rampaging Chinese mobs. The Philippines, Brunei Darussalam & Cambodia have no such investments, while Indonesia is a neutral party to the territorial disputes in the South China Sea. That leaves Malaysia with minimal investments in China as being the only party willing to host a high-profile temporary USAF detachment. Malaysia over the past few months had been feeling the heat from the US about Iran sanctions-bursting (see: & Putra Jaya therefore wanted to get back into the good books of Uncle Sam through some tangible gesture. Thus, when the US proposed the Raptors’ deployment, Putra Jaya saw this as tantamounting to killing two birds with one stone: i.e. getting close to the US; & ‘engaging’ China constructively by sending a strong signal to Beijing about Malaysia’s options on maintaining a ‘coalition of the willing’. Though Malaysia does not see China as an immediate military threat, it has sufficient reason to be worried.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

For instance, at the 13th IISS Asia Security Summit (Shangri-La Dialogue) that took place from May 30 & June 1 in Singapore, Dzirhan Mahadzir, Malaysia Correspondent for IHS Jane's Defence Weekly bluntly asked Lt Gen Wang Guanzhong, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the PLA: “Gen Wang, you mentioned China doesn’t undertake provocative action. I was wondering, then why is it always my friends in the RMN are scrambling their ships to intercept yours in our waters?” He asked this after Lt Gen Wang in his address had given the clearest exposition of China's controversial nine-dash-line claim to the South China Sea. China, he said, discovered the islands in the South China Sea as early as the Han Dynasty; the nine-dash-line was drawn and declared in 1948, 46 years before 1994, when the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) was ratified. Moreover, UNCLOS has no retrospective effect. He added an extra sting in his bite—the US has not ratified UNCLOS. It is generally accepted that the nine-dash-line is not consistent with UNCLOS, the gold standard for assessing disputed claims to maritime areas. But China's clearer position on the nine-dash-line should add impetus to the conclusion of talks for a binding ‘Code of Conduct’ for the South China Sea, which would at the least enshrine the norms of behavior concerning freedom of navigation in the high seas & EEZ jurisdiction.

It will be interesting to see the conduct of the exercises from Butterworth air base, since that air base also hosts visiting RAAF detachments. Also note that the USAF is not deploying any AWACS platforms—meaning the Raptors’ deployment is merely symbolic (unless the RAAF’s B.737NG AEW & CS platforms participate). Had there been an intent to practice serious dissimilar air combat manoeuvres, then AWACS would have arrived from Kadena or continental US, & the Raptors would have been operating out of Kuantan air base facing the South China Sea. From a Malaysian perspective, the TUDM/RMAF will get its first crack at comparing the supermanoeuvrability characteristics of the Su-30MKM & the Raptor. Also, during the ‘merge’ during both daytime & by night, it will be interesting to see whether the Su-30MKM’s & MiG-29N’s on-board IRSTs serve as force-multipliers against the F-15Cs & Raptors in terms of ‘look-first, shoot-first’ capability.

To SOUBHAGYA: How can the AW-101s remain in service when the Govt of India has already prematurely terminated the procurement contract & is willing to commence arbitration proceedings? They will have to be sold off in the second-hand market at highly depreciable price-levels. AKA has thus not only totally wrecked the contract, bit has also caused enormous loss to the Indian taxpayer.

To SLAVA: No TEL-launched version of Shaurya TBM is being series-produced. No one in the world has developed active seekers for such TBMs to target any warship.

Will answer the remaining queries later tonight.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Interesting read:

Messenger said...

Hi Prasun,
do you expect pak to disintegrate in future?

Pierre Zorin said...

Whilst China may not match the clout of the US military, they are now a force to reckon with and I would say ranks second in the world. If they transfer the weaponry they have today to Pakistan, India will have a very little chance of success militarily. The fact China doesn't, shows it keeps Pakistan on a tight leash and only allows some flex when it suits its own foreign policy objective. This means China still views cooperation with India a far better proposition than a subjugated India or an expansive Pakistan.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

a few questions

1. You said US will keep 15000 troops for 10 yrs after 2014 withdrawl, but US prez declared that those will stay till 2016 only, what are the ramifications of it?

2. I see the chinese have well n truly copied the Tunguska ADS and Humvees, how can they do it? what that man in pic is wearing in his left hand?

3. Reports say Chinese hacked or spied on F22/F35 systems n several of their J20/J30 have similar features, they US named 5 ppl who
thought were in cyber espoinage, but it cant do anything about it, why?

4. To my previous querry in ur last blog u said you said US n others arent quiet, but they are minting money with help of China, so ultimtely its always about US$, inst it?

4. Read this, since when UK subs r making secret tour of IOR, do you see IN making such moves?

5. The above incident forces me to ask a question, what if a sub that too a nuke one suffers decompression just like a aircraft?


Joydeep Ghosh

jai singh said...

India cannot compete with China in terms of defense expenditure , then will she compromise on giving up her claims on aksai chin and settling for a defined boundary in terms .

Anonymous said...

Prasun Da ,

This is a very unique Blog post that you have created highlighting the Chinese advancement in SAM systems . Two questions , come to mind :

1. Will the Indian Air Force ever be able to penetrate the Chinese airspace given the dense , overlapping nature of the Chinese Air Defense systems ? Even FGFA won’t be of much help .

2. Why is China purchasing the S 400 from Russia since they can design such systems in house ?
Thank You

Slava said...

Thank you for your answers .
1.But is the missile itself in series production for naval use ?
2.Is the missile not being considered or has the production been delivered . It seems a good option vis a vie pakistan both for nuclear and conventional .
3.I have not heard of any test for the prithivi 3 ? Or is it being misreported as the prithivi 2?
Do you think it will look similar to the PDV ?

Slava said...

Regarding seekers for TBMs . The russians claim to use active seekers on their Iskanders . It is a land attack missile obviously . Why do you they have done that ?

Slava said...

Typo : Delayed not delivered :

vishakh said...


I would like to know as Australia is looking for submarines from japan , can't India look for same for home made submarine technology or for project of next generation submarines .

F said...


1. It is your opnion that despite GAPU preferring Western systems like ASTER or MICA; that for political reasons the Malaysian leadership will eventually go for the LY-80E.

2. When it comes to missile systems and electronics, does China offer downgraded export variants; similar to what the U.S. does?

3. I have been told that the MKMs have been fitted with a data link to enable the sharing of radar feed.

4. You mentioned that Malaysia was the only country willing to host an F-22 detachment. Are you saying that Singapore and Thailand would have declined hosting F-22s for a bilateral exercise?

5. In your opinion, what does China seek to gain from being more assertive in the South China Sea; given that her actions have only drawn countries like Malaysia and Vietnam closer to Uncle Sam?

6. Not sure if you're aware but the RMAF has confirmed that the Fulcrum fleet will be retired next year and that Saab and BAE Systems re offering Gripens and Typhoons on a leasing arrangement; with an option to buy at a later date.

Anonymous said...

Ok I love the Su30 but its RCS is the size of jumbo jet! F22 will kill it at the edge of amraam's range. They didn't bring the awacs, I guess they want to see how their pilots do when blind.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR & PINTU: Will answer you queries in detail tonight.

To MESSENGER: The way matters are headed, with a strong sense of pervading regionalism taking firmer routes inside Pakistan, anything is possible. In the case, the CIA in o0ne of its earlier annual national intelligence estimates had predicted the disintegration of Pakistan by 2025.

JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) These are not commandments etched in stone. 2016 is still quite far away. 2) The instrument worn on the left hand is the IFF code programmer, since FN-6 carrying infantrymen have an IFF system mounted as a backpack. 3) The legal proceedings are underway in any case in the US & someone will be punished for such acts for sure. 4) It is always about economic predominance for every country. 5) Royal Navy’s SSNs have always been patrolling within the IOR. Where do you want India to make a counter-move? 5) Then it has to surface at breakneck speed.

To JAI SINGH: Nor is there a need for India to match China’s defence expenditure. Because, while India’s armed forces are oriented to threats emanating from the west & north, in China’s case the bulk of the PLA’s nationwide deployment is fixated against Taiwan, the Korean Peninsula, East China Sea, South China Sea, Outer Mongolia, & the Central Asian Republics. In other words, looking just at the TAR theatre, Indian military might will on any given day be superior to that of the PLA, both quantitatively & qualitatively. Nor does China want to activate a new front against India along the LAC & hence the recent high-level overtures made by Beijing to the NaMo-led govt—this being a reinvigorated attempt to find a mutually agreeable permanent solution to the LAC issue.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR & PINTU: VMT. It indeed is a consolidated thread encompassing almost all the hardware-related aspects of the PLA’s ground-based integrated air-defence assets. But there’s much more to be uploaded by way of illustrations & charts, which I will do by this weekend. I created this thread in response to persistent requests from several officials—both Indian & non-Indian—who were clamouring for such a one-stop reference thread for the past 2 years.

1) Although the PLA has a multitude of systems at its disposal, the bulk of them are deployed outside TAR, & are located along the Taiwan Straits, Korean Peninsula, southern China & opposite Mongolia & the CARs. Therefore, it would be a fallacy to assume that all of the systems highlighted above are also operational within TAR.

2) The S-400 is a rather unique system representing a quantum upgrade over the previous-generation S-300PMU family of LR-SAMs. Such LR-SAMs are optimised for targeting high-altitude, hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft like the Lockheed Martin SR-75 Penetrator & SR-74 SCRAMP XR-7 Thunderdart, & not long-range bombers, for which the FD-2000 is available.

TO SLAVA: 1) The K-15 SLBM is under limited series-production for the sake of being test-fired from the S-2/Arihant SSBN only as an interim measure, pending the arrival of the K-4 SLBM. 2) Compared to such TBMs, cruise missiles like BrahMos-1 Block-2/3 GLCM & Nirbhay ALCM are a far better option against both Pakistan & China. 3) Prithvi-3 has always existed. It was never a myth & it was revealed by the MoD’s DGQA(A) Dept. 4) Iskander-Es don’t have on-board active seekers. But the MIRVs launched by ICBMs & SLBMs do have such seekers & that too only for acquiring permanently static ground targets.

To VISHAKH: No imported submarine design can ever become a home-grown design, UNLESS the design rights/IPRs are bought, which is what India did in the early 1980s when it acquired all IPRs for the Class 209 SSK’s Type 1500 variant. Japan has still not officially clarified whether or not its SSK design will be subjected to licenced-production abroad.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To FARIS: 1) My opinion is that for the MR-SAM reqmt, a Western solution will be sought, most probably the Aster-15. 2) No, not downgraded. But it customises such weapons in response to a customer’s unique operational reqmts. For instance, the LY-80E MR-SAM has been slightly re-engineered & exported to Iran as the Sayyad-2 MR-SAM. 3) Any aircraft fitted with an airborne data-link will have visible apertures on both sides of its airframe, just like the white-coloured rectangular apertures seen on the Su-27SKs & Su-30MKKs & MiG-29Ks, just aft of the nose radome & below the aerial refuelling probe. Such apertures are still not visible on the Su-30MKMs. 4) Yes they would have. 5) China’s nine-dash-line claim is a bizarre one at best, since it flies against all prevailing maritime laws. Even in terms of enforcing vintage laws, one can go back only 100 years as per international conventions. Therefore, going back to the BC era in support of one’s maritime claims will be opposed by the entire world. Hence, such maritime claims are meant to mount enormous pressure on ASEAN countries till such a time that ASEAN recognizes China’s economic pre-eminence in Southeast Asia at the expense of the US-Japan alliance. 6) That’s indeed a VERY BAD mistake. The RMAF MiG-29Ns can easily be upgraded to MiG-29SMT standard or even MiG-35 standard & if done so, will be able to remain in effective service for at least another 20 years. In this day & age of economic belt-tightening, anyone in Malaysia who decides to go for Gripens or EF-2000s will indeed be either a certified fool, or someone miserably abnormal.

To Anon@1.39AM: That’s a terrible oversimplification. Members of the MiG-29 & Su-27/Su-30 families have always had internal jammers just for neutralising the BVRAAM threats. Also, the USAF F/A-22 Raptors had ample experience of dogfights in the supermanoeuvrability regimes in August 2008 when the IAF’s Su-30MKIs participated in the Red Flag exercises. Consequently, the Raptors’ presence at Butterworth is A) at best a refresher course for the USAF’s air warriors when dogfighting against supermanoeuvrable heavy MRCAs; B) familiarising the Raptors’ pilots & ground-crews with the climatic conditions of Southeast Asia; & C) trying to work out the procedures for the USAF’s expeditionary airpower projection capabilities in the Southeast Asian theatre.

abs said...

In here Ajit Doval speaks at length about the Bangladeshi Illegal Immigrant issue and terms it the biggest Internal Security Threat of that time:
You still stick with your earlier views about negligible illegal immigrations?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABS: That interview clearly talks about ‘illegal infiltration’ as being the foremost threat, & not ‘illegal migration’. Huge difference between the two & one must therefore not treat them as being one & the same. Illegal infiltration does not automatically tantamount to the infiltrators settling down inside India for good. And the only solution to this problem is for India’s Parliament to ratify the 2011 Border Demarcation Agreement that was agreed to by the govts of Bangladesh & India, so that the ‘chitmahals’ (enclaves) would no longer exist on either side & the BSF will find it much more easier to implement its border surveillance-cum-management protocols. Presently, with the prevalence of the ‘chitmahals’, it is next to impossible for anyone on either side to maintain effective vigil on several portions of the Bangladesh-India border & consequently infiltration takes place. But such infiltrations have not resulted in any form of permanent demographic changes within any state of India.

F said...


1. Conducting a full upgrade on the MiG-29N fleet will involve a new engine with FADEC, a fly-by-wire system, data link, AESA radar and a glass cockpit which is NVG compatible. Is it really worth spending all this money on plaforms that were first built in the early 1990's? I suspect that the RMAF is pushing for the retirement of the MiG-29Ns in order to secure funding for what it really desires: a Western made multi-role fighter. As you're aware, the RMAF has never really been happy with its MiG-29s; for that matter, I believe it is also no to happy or satisfied with its Su-30MKMs. BTW, were the MiG-29Ns originally delivered with any wing or internal mounted or jammers?

2. Wing mounted and internal jammers are only intended to be used against the seeker heads of AAMs. For use against onboard radars of opposing fighters and ground based radars a larger pod mounted jammer is needed. Is this correct?

3. I'm uncertain about the original purpose of the Russian IRSTs. Most accounts state that it is intended to provide passive alerting as to the presence of opposing fighters. I have a book however which states that the IST is intended to que the cannons onboard the MiG-29 and Su-27/30.

4. When it came to ground base air defence missiles' Soviet doctrine called for at least 2-3 missiles to be fired against the same target to increase kill probability. Curious as to whether Western doctrine calls for the same?

5. You mentioned an IFF for the FN-6 being carried on the back. If I'm not mistaken, the Thales IFF for GAPU's FN-6s are attached to the missile.

Slava said...

@ABS see this regarding India Bangladesh border

@Prasun: I am not sure about your position that there is no serious migration from Bangladesh . General Roy Chowdhry made the statement that the demographic border of Bangladesh is 2kms inside compared to the political border . The demographic structure of Assam has changed quite drastically there are large areas where the migrants are actually a large majority .A large portion of slum dwellers in NCR are migrants.
With regards to the the k 15. Would it be correct to classify it as a "depressed trajectory " missile ?And would the k 4 have a similar trajectory ?
So there is no future for it other than being a test bed/interim solution ?
It appears that the k15 represents a large leap missile tech with regards to guidance ,fuel and the fact that it is canister launched. Would I be correct in assuming this ?
I did not say that the prithivi 3 is a myth . I was wondering whether the prithivi 3 tests were being misreported as prithivi 2 by the media.Why would they keep testing the prithivi 2 ?

RAVI.K said...

Hi Prasun ,

I was reading your comment on Prophet Mohammad’s prophecy in your previous thread . Just one question in this regard . Is it true that Prophet Mohammad said that in a future war CHINA will have to save INDIA ? VMT

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Anonymous said...

This is my first post since reading this blog for couple of years. The article by Praveen Swami is apologetic and suggests crawling and holding Pakistan's feet to be a good boy and do not do anything against India. I am no defense analyst; however, appreciate the statement by Mr. Modi (Indian Prime minister) that when India displays strength then the enemies will learn to behave.
The solution to all neighborly problems is economic dependence on India and promise of decimation (through any means) if even (yellow) not red lines are crossed. - Ganesh

Gessler said...

This, it seems, is the way forward -

"Mr. Modi could, finally, authorise the use of covert means, like bomb-for-bomb strikes or targeted assassination of jihadist leaders. Mr. Modi’s intelligence services, though, don’t have this arrow in their quiver — and it will be a while, most experts say, before they can acquire it."

@Prasun K. Sengupta - From the link you just posted.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, F-22 never faced the IAF Su-30s before, not in cope India nor at the red flag in USA. There it was the f-16/15 that did the damage to our IAF's reputation (remember the video by USAF colonel).

S Nair said...

@Prasun link from Hindu.

Article is creating a false sense, the situation is not that bad, last few years we had good break through in holding a no.of IM activist across, South West Asia.
The cure is to increase the internal vigil, keep watching. Our effort should be part of larger multinational effort to root out terrorism.This is long term strategy. you cant expect results in 2,3 years.
By the way Vajpaye troop movement to border was stupid, not sure what we have achieved by that, other than the realization that we need to improve out logistics and transport.

Kittu said...

@anon June 11, 2014 at 8:26 PM

don't come here with half baked knowledge or if u r paki don't act smart in disguise.

what he was talking was about the interoperability issues as su30mki do not have link 16 to talk to us jets as India is not part of nato, its the things should be.

STFU and get lost

Ex Intelligent said...

Just goes to show the sinister nature of the US

US state department was ordered by Hillary Clinton to re start the Khalistani movement simply because US lost the MMRCA deal

Anonymous said...

To Ex - Intelligent @ June 11, 2014 at 11:56 PM

The link says...

because of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's inability to water down the Nuclear Liability Act and Defence Minister A.K. Antony's decision to prefer the French Rafale fighter to its US rival, "orders were given to activate the Khalistan file so as to create embarrassment for Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh".

Its a diplomatic response for India's action which is unfavorable to US. Nothing to do with starting the Khalistan movement.


Reddy said...

Hi Prasun,
You might have read this news in Hindu:

My query is:
What will happen to the CIA network once US vacates Afghan?

Will US actively maintains this network for years to come? or reduces drastically? or is there any chance RAW to work in association with CIA to fill the gaps left by CIA based on an information sharing agreement?

We must take enough care for the last option as RAW and it's agents got totally exposed to CIA when we signed similar agreement between CIA and RAW.

Kittu said...

Hi Prasun,

some questions, suggestions and ideas for your review:

1. Is modi taking steps to mitigate fake currency issue, especially coming from bangladesh

2. why we are still importing n using the same paper from Brazil as pak is also importing from the same supplier and the same grade/quality currency paper. why we are not researching?

3. why govt is allowing cash transactions in higher amounts?
by removing the 500 and 1000 notes govt should ask transactions higer than 49998 should be made electronically or cashless. also with out 500 and 1000 notes, fake currency will be reduced as it is highly impossible to bring fake currency in higher amounts in small denominations.

4. govt should impose 1% extra tax for purchases paid by cash n should ask SMEs to design n innovate cashless products, machines etc; for example smart cards to pay for bus tickets n buses should have automatic card readers or mobile payments etc

5. all public places (bus stations, rly stns, hospitals, parks, theaters) n public assets(buses, trains)should be made accessible only by providing finger prints for logging purposes. UK has 15 million public CCTV cameras for 60 million population (private cctv cameras are not included in 15 million)

6. govt should make sure that all mobiles and bank cards must be made contactless so that when people can be passively logged by logging those mobiles and cards

7. such fingerprint data, mobile data, card data, purchase data, mail access IP loggings etc data must be geographically analysed through GIS software and should automatically highlight patterns for any suspicious activity on people based on the prelisted data

8. govt should get real time call records, statistics data, finger print data, pass port data (ex: pak's NADRA) etc from pak, SL, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Myanmar, Afghan etc for intelligence purposes


SS said...

I hope to see Indian spy system (External and Internal) reinvent itself into a robust and powerful organization which should infiltrate into those so called disguised NGOs (Harming our Nation). Mr. Modi's Govt should manifold the no of active spies and also invest more into electronic intelligence infrastructure. Let us all hope for a more robust and powerful Intelligence organizations with able spies and infrastructure to help India achieve a respectful stature in the world map. VMT

Ex Intelligence said...

NR ,

Now don’t take this for rudeness but did you ever try to find out why a handful of SIKHS are re starting the Khalistani movement ?

Given the extent to which the CIA/NSA has penetrated the Indian Intelligence and Political parties virtually any news that’s “anti US” is immediately censored .

A number of SIKHS escaped to the US in the 80s & 90s after committing homicides in Punjab . The US State Dept struck a deal with these fugitives that they will NOT be handed over to India provided they lend support to the anti India activities as and when required .

The recent IB report that talks about foreign NGO’s trying to de stabilize INDIA also contains details about how pro Khalistan members are being supported by the US State Department .

Warren Anderson killed thousands of innocent people in Bhopal and is now safely hiding in the US .

David Headley ensured hundreds get killed in 26/11 and was refused extradition to India by the US.

The US has decided to raise visa fee to $10,000 for Indian companies that hire Indians to work in the US .

The US has now set up a listening post in Maldives to snoop on Indian nuclear submarines .

ANGLO SAXONS have historically viewed Hinduism as anti White / Christianity . Ergo , they will go to any lengths to destabilize & eventually disintegrate India .

Am quite sure the blog owner will DELETE this comment of mine

Bhaswar said...

@Prasun Da

Taking an awful lot of time time to reply, am I to assume that that means that perhaps there are some details (positive) related to the reply which you'll be giving out?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

Japan & Australia has decided to jointly develop stealthy submarines .Wonder why India cannot sign such a deal with Japan ?


Shekhar said...


You seem to be having wrong information on FGFA contract. IAF officials seem unhappy with the project and the $12 billion USD contract has not been signed yet. Even its chances are dwindling day by day.

Where did you get your info?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: The foremost task for the new Govt of India was to restore the sanctity of the PMO, whicg had undergone systematic degradation since mid-2004 through to April 2014. Following that, self-confidence of the civil services had to be restored, since the civil services personnel were made scapegoats for all the ills committed by politicians hailing from UPA-1/UPA-2. At the end of the day, it is teamwork within the executive branch of the Govt of India that ensures the decisive & purposeful deliverance of goods & services (& that’s why I was always opposed to laying all the blame on the doorsteps of the ‘Babus’). What NaMo must also do is present an annual report-card to the nation within 3 days of every Republic Day & the presentation must be telecast on all TV channels & must last no more than 1 hour in which the macro-level objectives & progress attained in fields such as education, health, employment generation, agriculture & infrastructure development should be honestly highlighted. This is the best way of communicating directly with the citizens of India.

A) Without initiating the long-overdue ‘strategic defence review’, everything else becomes secondary & will result in only continuance of arming without aiming. Absence of such a review will also prevent the long-overdue restructuring & rightsizing of the armed forces.

B) The previous nuclear doctrine had a validity period of only 15 years, & a new doctrine is called for, one that expressly does away with the need for tactical nuclear weapons. Consequently, the proportion & quantum of the triad will have to be articulated while concurrently the post of CDS will have to be raised. ASAT attacks can never be defined as constituting a first strike, UNLESS the ASAT’s use nuclear warheads.

C) Reviving a non-lapsable defence modernization fund is the only way to clear the huge procurement backlog. There are no other alternatives.

D) 100% FDI is not doable & totally unachievable. Instead, existing DPSUs should be made to become publicly-listed corporate entities so that they can tap the global capital markets for urgently required funds. Concurrently, these listed entities should be made free to choose their own industrial partners from both within India & abroad.

E) While local companies like Kalyani & others have developed indigenously-built products, they’re severely constrained when it comes to product development since the existing instrumented firing ranges & test-ranges are all MoD-owned & are therefore accessible to only the armed forces & DPSUs. Furthermore, such ranges do not have the infrastructure necessary for accommodating large numbers of personnel from the industries that have to be present on-site. This requires urgent rectification for ensuring a level playing field.

F) Tools available today for such purposes are far better than what was available in 1999 or 2002.

MSA is a certified turncoat that changes colours like a chameleon. Simply put, he feels guilty about not being a avowed communist during his student days & wants to now repent by being a hyper leftist in his outlook, in other words a pretty much wasted retard to be of any consequence to anyone.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PINTU: 1) There have always been well-conceived plans to this effect, but they can hardly be implemented if there’s no long-term financial planning for attaining such objectives. Without a financial blueprint, there can’t be a corporate/industrial blueprint, no matter what the operational blueprint articulates. 2) Without a strategic defence review being undertaken, everything else will be of no consequence. For instance, the already bloated Indian Army is getting bloated even more through the raising of four new infantry divisions. On the other hand, CABS is developing various ground-based & airborne radars without even contemplating the development of shipborne variants or aerostat-borne of such radars. This kind of operational dis-connectivity needs to end. 3) R & D on BMD should continue, but with the focus shifting on to the interception of NLOS-BSMs & TBMs. 4) Totally impossible, since a) no one will step forward to create such JVs with Indian companies & the DRDO, & b) Indian R & D efforts on BMD have failed to come up with indigenous target detection/engagement radars & fire-control systems—components that China has mastered & is now series-producing. 5) Such innovations have a huge market potential throughout India, to say the very least. 6) China has had such R & D facilities since the 1970s & hence all their 0-0 ejection seats are indigenously developed & produced.

To FARIS: 1) Upgrading the MiG-29N to SMT standard will involve re-lifing the airframe, i.e. good as new that will have another 20 years to service to offer. Such an upgrade will be 30% cheaper than acquiring Gripens. The upgraded MiG-29UPGs of the IAF, for instance, are far more versatile than the Gripens by a factor of more than 2.5. All MiG-29s have internal jammers for defence against BVRAAMs. 2) Pod-mounted jammers are meant only for use against SHORADS & MR-SAMs. Radars of opposing combat aircraft don’t require jamming. 3) Every IRST mounting on MRCAs of Soviet/Russian origin hosts two sensors: the passive IRST sensor; & a laser rangefinder for providing fire-control data for the internal cannons. 4) Yes, it’s still the same. 5) Only the IFF antenna is fitted on to the FN-6 missile launcher. The processor element is backpack-mounted.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SLAVA: The General too was referring to the ‘chitmahal’ enclaves & hence he mentioned the 2km depth. Demographic structure of Assam has changed since the late 1980s due to efforts by successive state govts to resettle the Bodo tribals, who were previously engaging in slash-n-burn cultivation, to settled lifestyles within the Brahmaputra plain. Bengali migration to Assam commenced in the 1920s & lasted till 1971. Prior to August 15, 1947 Assam never existed as an independent administrative state & was part of the Bengal province. Any TBM can be employed as a depressed trajectory missile, but this will result in a reduced range envelope. Therefore, it makes no sense for any ballistic missile to be fired in a depressed trajectory. All reported test-firngs of Prithvi-2 involved only Prithvi-2 NLOS-BSMs, & NOT any Prithvi-3. That’s because the DRDO was trying to convince the Govt of India about the need for employing NLOS-BSMs as tactical nuclear weapons. However, last year, the Govt of India decided against the deployment of TNWs & therefore the Prithvi-2 & Prahaar projects have since been discontinued. Prithvi-3, however, is envisaged as carrying conventional warheads, much like the Iskander-E’s conventionally armed variant.

To RAVI K: The Prophet NEVER SAID in what context the assistance will come from China. Therefore, the terms ‘war’ or ‘conflict’ or ‘hostilities’ were never mentioned by him.

To GANESH & GESSLER: That article you refer to WRONGLY ASSUMES that India has not been waging a covert war against Pakistan since the early 1990s. The reality is quite the opposite & NO Indian PM since the early 1990s has ever prevented the respective Indian agencies from engaging in such covert sub-conventional warfare operations. And especially not the late I K Gujral. People forget that India went all-out to shut down the Neelam Valley in POK/AJK between 1993 & 1996 & totally succeeded in this mission & this then prompted the Pakistan Army to launch OP Badr in late 1998. However, this tit-for-tat response wasn’t properly conceived & that’s why it failed miserably. If you were to study the timelines since 1972 when the LoC was subjected to alterations through military means by both India & Pakistan, you will be able to get the true picture.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@8.26PM: Never ever said that the F/A-22’s had faced the Su-30MKIs. Why are you ASSUMING that I had said so?

To EX-INTELLIGENT: And if I’m not mistaken, this very author (Nalapat) was once alleging that INS Sindhurakshak was lost because of sabotage initiated by India’s resident arms lobbies! C’mon, does this mean that all personnel of India’s armed forces have been bought over & are working at the behest of such arms lobbies? And BTW, the Khalistani movement has been active only in Canada & portions of Southeast Asia, & that too in terms of sending money to the various competing ‘taksals’ for the sake of securing land deeds in Punjab against competing claims. Paying even scant attention, therefore, to oversimplified notions of conspiracies emanating from Nalapat & Co is an insult to one’s intelligence.

To REDDY: It remains to be seen whether the new Afghan President will sign a new Status of Forces Agreement with the US later this year. Chances are that it will be signed & the CIA’s covert warfare capabilities will be retained throughout Afghanistan. R & AW has been actively collaborating with all other agencies in Afghanistan since 2002 & even prior to that.

To KITTU: 1) Not from Bangladesh, but from Nepal. India & Nepal share an ‘open’ border, unlike the substantially fenced border with Bangladesh. Hence, 99% of the renditions of terrorists of Indian origin have taken place through Nepal. And till this day, the Govt of India refuses to fence the India-Nepal border. If this continues, India can only look forward to courting more man-made disasters. 2 & 3) Paper-quality is irrelevant. What matters most is the security quality of one’s security emborsing & watermarking features. 4) That’s a very good idea & could have been implemented with the IUD scheme itself. But the govt of the day in its all-knowing wisdom totally fucked up. The IUD should also have replaced the voter’s ID card, ration card, PAN-Card & driving licence, i.e. the UID should have been introduced as a multi-purpose card. After all, how many types of identity cards is one reqd to carry in this day & age??? IN my view, only two types of documents should suffice to prove one’s identity: UID & Passport. 5) That can only be possible if the citizens of India acquire a collective security consciousness. Sadly, that isn’t the case today. Most folks are more aware of their rights & freedoms than their responsibilities/obligations that are enshrined in the country’s Constitution.

To SS: That can only become possible when the respective agencies formally come into existence through Parliament-enacted legislation & their operations/processes can therefore be protected legally. Presently, that isn’t the case & all agencies are created through executive directives from the PMO.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To EX-INTELLIGENCE: Why should any NGO’s services be required to destabilise India when several Indians are more than willing to offer their services for such purposes? For instance, all that the people displaced by the Sardar Sarovar Dam wanted was land for resettlement, but who denied the land to them? Not the NGOs, but the state govts like that of MP. Who’s opposing the Jaitapur nuclear power project? Is it not the Shiv Sena? Which NGOs are financing this party? Which NGO had bribed the Customs & DRI officials in February 1993 to ensure the safe arrival of RDX, detonators, primers & small arms/ammo in the Raigad coast? Which NGO financed Rahul Gandhi’s sudden parachuting into Niyamgiri for taking up the cause of the tribals located there? Which NGO convinced the TATA’s Taj Group to pay no heed to the successive warnings (at least six since 2006) of the Mumbai Police to beef up security inside the Taj Intercontinental? Which NGO was responsible for denying the Mumbai Police the proficiency reqd for firing their .303 bolt-action rifles?

Look more carefully at the big picture before scripting conspiracy theories that can’t stand thye test of reason & circumspection.

To VIKRAM GUHA: It says cooperation in stealth (low-observable) technologies, & not specifically about co-developing submarines. In fact, India is several notches ahead of Japan in terms of developing submarine hulls due to her on-going efforts to deploy a fleet of SSBNs.

To SHEKHAR: Exactly what ‘wrong information’ are you referring to? I’ve never said anything about any type of production contract. Did the IAF ever say anything about the FGFA’s co-development contract being terminated, or down-sized?

Ex Intelligence said...

Prasun ,

I did not say that Indian NGOs are holier than thou . I am saying there are a number of Western Govts especially the US & UK who harbor nefarious designs against INDIA.

This is their standard practice the world over . They use local NGOs to destabilize the host country .

Didn't MMS say the same thing during the Kudankulam Nuclear Plant crisis ? That US & Norway are funding these protestors ?

I wanted to explain things in greater details about how the US & UK plans to Balkanize India , however I see a fellow Bhaiya has done some good preliminary research . Take a look at his piece

Mr. RA 9 said...

Narindar Modi dedicates the INS Vikramaditya to the nations:

A great event.

Anonymous said...

even though what Prasun said was right that some of the Indians do not mind harming our country for the sake of dollars, NGOs are certainly being used for their covert activities. Prasun must accept this.

KKNPP is a full blown example of this.

Also, does anyone have any doubt, foreign telecom companies present a biggest security loop hole? companies like telenor and vodafone does DO espionage for their western masters and use call data, text data and password data for variety of purposes.

we have too see how our central govt encourages companies to bring IT companies to replace twitter, facebook, gmail, etc to keep the data in the country.

Pintu said...

Prasun Da, very many thanks for answering my queries while sparing your precious time ,

However, there are some questions pondering on my mind :

1)Is / will there be any strategic defence review taken up by the new government in power to facilitate the identification of the objectives by the three organs of the Defence Forces, and priotise the area of development & creation of production-supply chain as per the objectives, while benefiting the participating organisations , public / private ?

2)Any step being taken towards making the DPSU(s) listed entities in Stock Markets, I think this should have been done, while raising bar in FDI in Defence Production ?

3) --- Is this the image of Prithvi 3 NLOS-BSM ? I may be wrong, Is there any chance of test firing of the same this year, as there is change of guard what is preventing them (DRDO) commencing the test firing of it ?

4)Can we expect test firing of Nirbhay and Agni -V from TCT-5 (Canister based launch from TEL , soon ?

5)What is ailing Iraq, it is apparent that situation is far worse than Afghanistan, with the performance of the Army of former country far worse than Afghan Army ? Why could not there consensus being reached, as the same seems to have been reached in case of Afghanistan, what is ailing US trained and armed Iraqi Army ? Also, I feel that Iraq being turned into battle field of parties using Proxies.May ISIS being benefited from joining of Iraqi Army deserters ?

6)An acid test for Mian Nawaz Sharrif, as I think target of TTP as it felt out from their pattern, being PA, else HQ of Civil Administration being targeted, somebody here claimed Aman Militia or Aman Lashkar, as they may have been failed in their duties to check mate TTP, as it bolstered by the joining of Army or Airforce Deserters.

7)Situation is Nigeria being more or less same, so as points taken from three cases as in 5,6 & 7 above mentioned Wahhabi Militancy is on the rise and gaining strength ?

Thanks in advance

Mr. RA 9 said...

I think Iran should now militarily intervene in Iraq. Kindly comment.

Anonymous said...

India is not an IT power. It just supplies cheap labour, nothing more. The software that is created in India is not for India or Indians.

see the IT infrastructure in India. Broadband is limited to 10% of the people/cities, no Indian IT either in web side (Google, yahoo, twitter, facebook, skype and a lotmore ) or mobile side (android, ios)or platform side(windows, linux, rdbms engines, bigdata, sap, or mainframes and a lotmore) or technology side (hardware servers such as intel or amd or processer manufacturing etc)

if anyone says india is an IT capital I must laugh with my ass not with my mouth.

Very high imp institutes in India uses gmail or yahoo mail for official communications. shameful.

Atleast INDIA SHOULD CREATE A DEDICATED INSTITUTE / centre to PROTECT IT infrastructure of public telecom companies, OFCs, DRDO, ISRO, HAL networks, satellite networks used by public and army, navy, iaf etc, and NIC.

most of the public websites used by indian govt orgs can be hacked by a student who is learning ethical hacking even with basic tools and methods such as SQL injections and backtrack tools.



S Nair said...

Hi Prasun,
I was working with some NGO, which is working for uplifting tribal women. i noticed this organization Durga Vahini, why as country we failing to track these organizations ? Durga Vahini is just one example. Why we are monitoring green peace, when we have our on nonsense to worry about.

RD said...

Recently it seems Al-Qaeda has revived & is under full momentum-
The recent deal of US with taliban regarding Bergadhl was not a good move. The Karachi airport attack was to mount pressure on the Pakistani civilian govt.

Apart from this the 'Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant', another Al-Qaeda stooge is creating havoc in Iraq & Syria. Are the western powers alongwith some Arab countries are playing under shadows to squeeze the 'shia' Iran from both its east & west borders.

Pacm said...

kePrasun what do you think about the Mi 35m helicopters? How have they fared in India and will russia be able to sell them to pak.??

Gessler said...

Hi Prasun, check this out -,d.d2k

Has there been any misreporting or are we really going to get 22+39 = 61 Apaches for IAF & IAAC combined?

Kittu said...

@S Nair,

you are hiding your NGO but claiming that you are working for the betterment of the tribal women, but want to show some other Indian organisation in poor light.

Do you HAVE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE against Durga Vahini that are against Indian Laws?

Do you HAVE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE against Durga Vahini that are against Indian Laws?

Do you HAVE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE against Durga Vahini that are against Indian Laws?

If so please show it to the world.
If so Please show it to the world.

Do you know Malayalee Journalists tops the CIA paylist? Leave this alone, ANSWER ME WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE AGAINST DURGA VAHINI?


Anonymous said...


This is the right way to provide us a URL

Not a google search.

But thanks for your participation.

raw13 said...

I have no idea why indians get worried the minute we get any equipment. You are 10 times our size, have some confidence!!!

Mil-35, is a pure COIN platform, it will allow PA to deploy one platform, where currently they have to deploy 2 or even three.

It can clear an area, drop a team of commando', provide support, and extract them.

It has better armor, ceiling height, payload, range than the Ah-1 and bell 412 combined. It is the ideal platform for the air assault Brigade of PA. PA are looking to get a small number of these.

Another helicopter will replace the AH-1 on the eastern border. Most likely it will be the ATAK as Turkey will share the overall work order and full ToT.


Dear Prasun,
India is going to have Apache gunship, along with HAL LCH. Can you tell me will these stuffs fulfill the high altitude warfare of Indian army? Why the customized Mi-17 helicopter fell victim to simple Stinger missile in Kargil war? Why the IA didin't think about high altitude warfare since 80's as it is commonsense.

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Da,

VMT for the reply,

BUT, I already know the importance of a strategic review and of non-lapseable funds thanks to your previous posts and threads, what I was asking was WILL THE CURRENT DISPENSATION CONDUCT SAID STRATEGIC REVIEW AND COMMIT TO ACTIONS SUCH AS THE SETTING UP OF THE CDS AND NON-LAPSEABLE FUNDS? As in on the merit of what you have seen so far, are they sufficiently removed from the moribund proclivities of the previous administrations (even the previous NDA one) so as to take such decisions?

On the matter of DPSUs, Arun Shourie Ji was of the opinion that Modi Ji is not completely on board with the notion of disinvestment (a curious term "disinvestment", which itself belies what actually takes place under said term, which is actually the influx of fresh capital in the PSU concerned :p), is this a correct assertion on Shourie Ji's part and will it translate to the DPSUs as well? Shourie Ji asserts that Modi Ji is more interested overall in getting the PSUs to perform optimally rather than just resorting to disinvestment and then letting things be, as in disinvestment is not a necessary action as far as he (Modi Ji) is concerned. IF SO, then can even a man of his caliber take on such a mammoth task given how our DPSUs love their sheltered existence?

It seems that the IA has finally gotten its wish and that it too will operate Apaches in the future despite the IAF's objections, was it so impossible to ensure that even the current batch of Apahces slated for the IAF (assuming that it is indeed inducted)would also go to the IA and the IAF would be told to quit causing a ruckus over the issue? Or was that not desirable, I still don't get why the IAF even needs heavy attack choppers?

What do you make of the Sonadia venture, any possible negative impact on us?

What do you make of the hostility on the borders arising between Burma and BD, how will it impact us?

What do you think Modi Ji will do to pull back Sri Lanka and Maldives into the Indian sphere? Is it even possible now? Or is something else on the cards as far as these two nations are concerned? Or are we perhaps looking at merely improving relations without necessarily trying to compete with or even more ambitiously eclipse China?

Has any desi journo apologized to you yet for all their declarations of immediate sea trials for the Arihant even when you clearly stated that without the DSRV on hand it was not a possibility even remotely? :P

Btw, tidbit, a certain General Secretary has taken to cursing Modi Ji even in his sleep since his myopia and ego do not allow him to understand that his current standing and circumstances are a result of a long laundry list of ill advised capers spanning across the last two decades. You will of course know who I am referring to. :P

Gessler said...

Anon @9:08PM - Thanks for correction.

Bhaswar said...

Also, what do you think of the latest op Zarb-e-Azb by the PA? Many across the fence are opining that this shall be the decisive fight which will see the TTP and its factions crushed once and for all, I think they've got it right, given the disregard for collateral damage the PAF is pounding them left right and center. Although oddly even though one is often inclined to wish harm upon them one cannot but feel at least a smidgen of an impulse to wish them luck against the barbarians. So is this their (TTP)end? Even if they are not completely wiped out they will be significantly mauled, their operational capabilities will dwindle and their ability to keep the heat on against the PA and the GOP will also dwindle, no?

Anonymous said...

Interesting development...

slava said...

Thank you for your answers.
1.So you mean to say Pakistan can programe its ballistic missiles to fly as low as 50 km as opposed to 350 km , This makes missile defense very complicated for us, does it not ?
2.Can you go into detail about the navies plan for the submarine fleet beyond the scorpenes ?
3.In your opinion do you not think from a cost perspective that choosing the mig 35 over the rafael would have been much cheaper for us considering the infrastructure to maintain the m 29 already exists both for the navy and airforce and setting up a completely new infra to support the rafael will be very expensive ?

Vikram said...

Dear Sir

যেখানে আপনি হয় / yēkhānē āpani haẏa

To other readers : I have written

"Where are you" in Bengali

PS :I am NOT a Bengali

Just got this from the internet

Gessler said...

Hi Prasun ji, just another bit :-

Which 200km range SAM is Dr. Chander talking about in the last sentence? Or is this a bogus report?

Vikram Guha said...

@ Vikram ,

I don't intend to score brownie points but what you have written ( in Bengali) is

" Where You Is "

But I suspect PrasunDa got the drift.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To EX-INTELLIGENCE & Anon@8.20PM: If at all the West had any nefarious plans against India, then the first step then would have taken would be to deny Indian citizens access to all institutions of higher learning. This clearly did not happen. It is no use blaming local or foreign NGOs when the state & central govts in India themselves create such problems, which are then hijacked & led by organisations & people that originally had no inkling of what the real issues were. An excellent example is that of the Maoist phenomenon: originally all the involved tribal communities had genuine grievances, but when no one bothered to address them, self-styled Maoist intellectuals from Andhra Pradesh parachuted into the fray & re-oriented the prevailing discontent towards violent insurrection. And why was this allowed to happen? Simple: the writ of the state governments of the Maoist violence-infested did not exist in such areas. On the other hand, Andhra Pradesh successfully drove out the Maoist insurgents because it went all-out to impose the state’s writ with every means at its disposal, & success soon followed.

The KNPP fiasco is another glaring example of how vote-bank politics created a man-made problem. It had nothing to do with NGOs. It all started when the coastal fisherfolk of southeastern Tamil Nadu were encouraged to form cartels by both the DMK & AIADMK so that they could be given permits for borrowing from banking institutions in order to purchase deep-sea fighting trawlers. But the fisherfolk community residing next to KNPP somehow was overlooked by both the DMK & AIADMK & were denied such privileges, perhaps due to the small size of the community. On top of that, wholehearted efforts were not made to resettle them or provide them with skills for securing gainful employment elsewhere. At this point outsiders stepped in take up the cause & they re-oriented the agitational agenda towards environmental risks etc. In other words, if the original problems were solved sincerely by the state-level stakeholders, no NGO would have acquired even a toehold within the aggrieved communities. And why can’t such steps be taken to forestall such man-made disasters? Because the involved state-level & central stakeholders haven’t really embraced the doctrine of ‘mission denial’ through pre-emption. Instead, historically the focus has always been on letting a crisis fester on until it explodes, following which faint-hearted crisis management is undertaken. And this is also the reason why communal violence has broken out in the past.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PINTU: 1) That will be known ONLY AFTER a full-time Defence Minister takes charge of the MoD & proposes the conduct of such a review to the Cabinet Committee for National Security. 2) There is no other option but to do so, since that has been the writing on the wall. Even China & Russia have adopted this path & anyone in India who still harbours any hope of making the DPSUs function in an optimal manner is living in a fool’s paradise. 3) Nope. 4) Nirbhay, yes. Cannister-mounted Agni-5, not yet. 5) It is due to the vote-bank politics being practiced by the current PM Nouri Al-Maliki, who became PM due to strong Iranian pressure. The only man who can stabilise Iraq now is the Shiite leader Iyad Alawi, who also enjoys strong support from the GCC member-states, & believes in inclusive governance of the type practiced in India.

To Anon@10.11PM: The situation is more like ‘islands of excellence within a sea of mediocrity’. For instance, how many PhD-holders are there in India in the area of information & communications technologies? In my reckoning, Israel has far more than India does.

To RD: India does not have to fear such phenomena, since this is restricted largely to the Middle East. As for those TTP elements & their Uzbek, Chechan & Uighur components, they all collectively believe that the area of FATA constitutes ‘Khorasan’—the area from which the ‘Imam Mahdi’ will arise & will lead a Muslim liberation force to once again secure Mecca & Medina, & these Khorasanis will then march on to liberate Jerusalem. That’s as far as the theory goes. In practice, will this futuristic Imam be a Sunni or Shia? If he’s a Sunni, then will he march on from FATA to Karachi & from there & lead a seaborne expeditionary forces to the shores of southeastern Saudi Arabia? If he’s a Shia, then will he take a land-route by marching from FATA to Baluchistan & thence to Iran, finally entering Iraq & heading towards Karbala before marching on to Mecca & Medina & Jerusalem? These are the questions that require answers.

To PACM: They’re good platforms for functioning as a type of airborne artillery in a battlefield where there are no VSHORADS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: Of course it’s elementary misreporting. In reality, the IA wants to first raise 3 squadrons of ‘Rudra’ helicopter gunships—a task that alone will take 8 years to realise. It takes years to secure the land for building dedicated helicopter bases & acquiring adjoining land for creating firing ranges. Only after this can hands-on training begin for acquiring aircrew & ground crew operating proficiencies & synchronising the operations of such helicopter gunships with ground-based manoeuvre warfare formations. And by the time all this happens, the HAL-developed LCH will be a mature product that can easily morphe into a LAH. So where’s the need for dedicated attack helicopters like the AH-64D, which are always used for providing integral fire-support for air-mobile/air-assault formations during vertical envelopment expeditionary land campaigns? In addition, since the IA is already going for the ‘Rudra’, it makes financial & operational sense to go for the LAH, which shares substantial systems commonality with the ‘Rudra’, thereby greatly simplifying battlefield MRO & logistics.

The 200km-range SAM being talked about is the PDV.

Also, do view these dramatic documentaries, as they will cheer you up:

Pakistan’s wars within, against the protégés who’ve turned against their creators:

Train In Kashmir:

Konkan Railway:

Qinghai-Tibet railway:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SLAVA: 1) None of its existing ballistic missiles can be programmed accordingly. 2) Only plausible option now is to go for four more Scorpenes, following which SSN procurements are imperative. 3) Nope. The Rafale has been designed in such a way that it demands the bare minimal MRO support. For instance, as per French Air Force directives & practice, the Rafale, once it is delivered to its parent air base, will NEVER have to go back to any other industrial facility for MRO support or even for a deep upgrade. All such activities will be conducted within the confines of its air base. That’s why it makes no sense at all for HAL to acquire the Rafale’s licenced-production & MRO expertise. In fact, for the IAF, the Rafale will be the first combat aircraft for which the IAF won’t even be required to raise a dedicated Base Repair Depot (BRD).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: Such steps can only be taken after the present-day Govt of India spends at least 100 days in office & comes to grips with the prevailing realities. Regarding the unshackling of existing DPSUs, there is no other option but to do so, since that has been the writing on the wall. Even China & Russia have adopted this path & anyone in India who still harbours any hope of making the DPSUs function in an optimal manner is living in a fool’s paradise. It is not a mammoth task either. Instead, it involves making use of ‘common sense’. And as I had said a few times earlier, a leader is someone who can take difficult decisions without any difficulty. The IA cannot be expected to procure heavy attack helicopters when it has not even begun the process of inducting helicopter gunships. How can someone start sprinting when he/she has not even begun crawling? Sri Lanka & Maldives were always within the so-called ‘India’s sphere’. Both these countries wholly depend on India for their socio-economic survival & there are no other neighbouring or regional alternatives to India. As for Zarb-e-Azb, the PA’s assessment has always been that the conduct of such operations will only result in a 40% reduction in terrorist strikes within Pakistan. That’s because the terrorists hiding within FATA have perfected the art of ‘rolling with the punches’, i.e. whenever the PA & PAF launch low-intensity land campaigns, they vacate those areas & move back into eastern Afghanistan, & come back once the PA has withdrawn back to its cantonments. You will get a good feel of such moves after seeing these:

The main problem is not the terrorists located within FATA, but their controllers, handlers & abettors, all of whom are safely residing in Pakistan’s urban areas throughout the country (the Uzbeks can hardly be expected to self-navigate from FATA to Karachi unseen & unheard) & all of whom are Pakistanis of Punjabi origin are owe their allegiance to various militias engaged in proxy warfare, like the Let, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Sipaha-e-Sahaba & Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. How does one eliminate them? For the past 3 decades they have been told that establishing a Muslim Caliphate through armed jihad is their only aim, & yet today inside Pakistan they’re being told that such a Caliphate governed by Sharia law applies to all other Muslim countries EXCEPT Pakistan, where the 1973 Constitution reigns supreme! How can such a doctrinal contradiction be justified? That’s why the protégés have now turned against their creators & the only end-result is countrywide mayhem, whether one likes it or not. And the PA has no answers or solutions either—something recognised by China too. Consequently, China, India & Iran have today become the frontline states that are seen as possessing the necessary might to combat the common threat of state-sponsored terrorism emanating out of Pakistan.

F said...


Thank you for your feedback.

Would you agree that in a WVR scenario, 4th generation 'stealthy' fighters like the F-22 and F-35 have no clear advantage over fighters like the Su-30/27? Also that in WVR engagements it boils down mainly to pilot skill, luck and who lets off the 1st shot: a 'stealthy' will still be unable to outfly an Archer and a super maneuverable MKM/MKI will not be able to do the same with a Sidewinder X or ASRAAM.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To FARIS: In a WVR scenario as well, the one with the longest eyesight is always the first one to manoeuvre into a favourable position for firing either WVRAAMs or the internal cannons. This is where superior avionics like HMDS, the IRST sensor & missile approach warning systems will call the shots.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

China needs large supplies of rhenium—a rare metal that increases the temperature-resistance of turbine blades—to design and produce an engine that can handle higher internal temperatures, increasing performance and durability. Production of a new or upgraded engine is unclear but may begin around 2016. China will need to stockpile five metric tonnes of rhenium a year. The volume is about 10% of the world production, and is comparable to the likely consumption of the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine programme for the Lockheed Martin F-35 JSF when it reaches full-rate production. China is actually following the global pattern of rhenium consumption because around 80% of the figure is used to produce aviation turbines. The use of rhenium can imply two upward steps in turbine metallurgy. It can be used to improve nickel-based superalloys, while those alloys can be formed as single-crystal blades. Both technologies allow a turbine, especially a high-pressure one, to operate at a greater temperatures. Chinese officials admitted that only 10% of single-crystal blades produced in China are currently acceptable for service. The addition of rhenium to nickel-based superalloys increases the temperature at which turbine blades can operate even without making blades as a single crystal. Rhenium melts at 3,182C (5,759F), compared with 1,455C for nickel.

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Da,

VMT for the reply.

On a dissenting note, I do not see a coalition of the willing comprising of India and China anytime soon.

To be clear, India and China may well sit down and have talks on regional stability, not only in the "Af-Pak" region but also in the CAR where China at least has carved out significant energy interests unlike India which has been floundering, BUT, this does not mean that China will see any benefit in a combined stand against Pakistan. Let us be clear, the terrorism emanating from Pakistan is neither a secret nor something terribly difficult to understand in terms of its logistics and agenda, yet China has done nothing more than raise a voice against any instability arising from a localized conflict in Kashmir and that too of the Kargil kind which can lead to escalation rather than the active insurgency in the valley which is comprised of smaller (relatively) ambushes and regular attempts at low-level (as compared to Kargil) intrusions.

Now this is not to say that China is ideologically aligned with the terrorists or that it even sees any long term use for them, EVEN MORE clearly I am not imputing some sinister conspiratorial motive wrt their actions to harm us through proxy action on the western borders BUT China has never shied away from ensuring that Pakistan is well stocked to continue engaging in perhaps its only true tradition which is the export of terror. When they were providing CSS-6 missiles and feed-stock for the Pakistani nuclear arsenal they were well aware that Pakistan would utilize them to provide an umbrella for its sub-conventional war against our nation, now even if they were not endorsing such a doctrine they were more than willing to turn a blind eye as long as they could buy influence in Pakistan and perhaps thereby stamp their imprint in our neighborhood. That is to say that they were willing to enable Pakistan so as to buy influence even if the consequence of said enabling was the export of terror in to India.

Whatever concerns which the Chinese might have regarding terrorism in the region it has not stopped them from buoying a sinking Pakistan despite knowing that the Pakistani deep state to one extent or another is still unwilling to divorce itself from the cowardice of hiding behind "non-state actors".

To put it in a way clarified by nuance, China might well share India's concerns in Afghanistan and broader central Asian region but it does not seem to have any particular qualms against organisation such as the LeT which are state sponsored rather than true free agents. So while China may well cooperate with us against say the Afghan Taliban so as to secure their own interests in Afghanistan (perhaps going as far as turning the screws tight on Pakistan wrt the matter) they are unlikely to consent to any move which will pressurize Pakistan on the specific topic of the LeT.

Bhaswar said...

Now to be fare, stability in Afghanistan could well make things easier for us, it might even curtail the threat of the LeT to some extent BUT the LeT primarily operates out of the Punjab province of Pakistan so it will still remain intact and combat capable despite any resolution to the Afghanistan issue in our favor.

To summarize, while India and China might share a common interest in curtailing any agents who promote instability in Afghanistan it is a stretch to imagine that China shares India's concerns wrt specific groups such as the Let and has any particular cause against such groups which broadly target India AND ONLY India. As such, given the level of control that the Pakistani establishment has over the LeT (even if it may not be absolute, the LeT still requires the good graces of the Jernails and will understand that it cannot afford to upset China) China can simply deal with Pakistan on a bilateral basis to ensure that the LeT's focus remains on India rather than potentially upsetting any of China's plans (China certainly has the pull, no Jernail sitting in Rawalpindi has the gumption to say no to his betters sitting in Beijing on such matters short of any demand which would be akin to giving up on their dreams regarding Kashmir)rather than engaging in a joint effort along with India on that particular front. In fact given the visceral animus against us which drives the Pakistani deep state and the fact that it views the LeT and co. as its strategic assets it is more beneficial for China to leave out India-centric terror organisations and simply command the Pakistanis to ensure that Chinese interests are not specifically targeted or regions of interests to them are kept relatively free of insurgency. In my opinion, under the circumstance of China strong arming Pakistan wrt Afghanistan, the Pakistanis are likely to be more amenable to seeing a Taliban free Afghanistan where ensuring the prosperity of Chinese interests might consequentially lead to the safety of our interests too (given that even then in Afghanistan we'll be competing with all we've got against China for influence)rather than giving up the lone arrow in its quiver (the LeT, having long realized that in India they are facing a force over-match). China too would understand that it is better to barter their influence for stability in Afghanistan without using their weight to force an obdurate Pakistan to let go of its "assets" against India given that despite all their influence they would not wish to push Pakistan in to corner and risk the Jernails running off to the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Let us please remember, Pakistani based terror organisations are not a common threat to India and China (even if Chinese interests might get hurt) given that China can get the Pakistanis to act against said organisations (which act against Chinese interests) so as to mitigate the issue or face the music unlike us who are viewed as the eternal enemy on principle

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: Here’s something more to cheer you up:

Karcham Wangtoo hydroelectric project in Himachal Pradesh:

Konkan Railway’s Digital Network:

slava said...

1.I asked about the Pakistani missiles because you said that any ballistic missile can be programmed to fly a depressed trajectory .
2. What is the approximate time frame for the SSNs . Do you not think that the increased noise profile of SSNs vs SSKs is a disadvantage . Or is the Navy looking to increase the distances at which it can operate .
3.These features of the Rafael appear to be truely impressive . My impression was that these fighter aircraft are like formula1 cars with so much maintainance just to keep them running .What makes the rafaels so different from say the mig 29s to have such a low logistics tail ?
4. How far are we from developing an engine . The kaveri project seems to be stuck .What would be required to move forward in engine development or do we simply not have the expertise in the country to do this .
5. The decision to buy apaches is strange considering that the airforce holds a very low opinion of it especially in the backdrop of the kosovo war . Do you think the media is mis reporting ? It appears that n additional 36 apaches are being inducted for the army in addition to the 22 for the airforce .

Slava said...

Sorry for putting up so many questions .
1.Is there an progress at all in the co development of a medium lift helicopter (with a foreign company)that was floated a few years back .
Such a platform can be modified to be used by all the 3 services and also the coast guard . Did the navy not say that the light helicopter like the dhruv is not suitable for shipbourne operations. Seeing that the army uses ad hoc purchases of Mil 17s to fill gaps .Is this not a priority
2.Also what is your opinion of the joint venture of the medium transport aircraft with russia . Do you think such an aircraft can have civilian applications or other military applications beyond cargo (Is it suitable as a tanker , a better platform for the drdo AEW&C)

Gessler said...

VMT for the amazing videos Prasun ji!!

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa ,

According to this news today in Business Standard the Typhoon & Gripen still have an outside chance in the MMRCA competition

Any truth in this report ? I did see the Typhoon being advertised during this year's DefExpo .

Thank You


Mr. RA 9 said...

Gripen is the best if India does not faces any serious security threat. Moreover it may be a mere duplication of the Tejas.

raw13 said...


the answer to your first question, have a look the the launch of the latest NASR missile test, it is low trajectory.


Dear Prasun,
India is going to have Apache gunship, along with HAL LCH. Can you tell me will these stuffs fulfill the high altitude warfare of Indian army? Why the customized Mi-17 helicopter fell victim to simple Stinger missile in Kargil war? Why the IA didin't think about high altitude warfare since 80's as it is commonsense.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: A few clarifications being listed below to throw more light on the China-Pakistan issue:

Regarding “China can simply deal with Pakistan on a bilateral basis to ensure that the LeT's focus remains on India rather than potentially upsetting any of China's plans”…..Pakistan-based terror organisations are not a common threat to India and China”……‘such groups which broadly target India AND ONLY India’…….. ‘China might well share India's concerns in Afghanistan and broader central Asian region but it does not seem to have any particular qualms against organisation such as the LeT’.

This scenario had prevailed ONLY PRIOR to 9/11, when entities like Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Lakhkar-e-Taiba, the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, the Hizb-e-Wahadat, the Supah-e-Sahaba, the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the Sipah-e-Mohammad and the Jaish-e-Mohammad were all being trained inside PoK/AJK & Afghanistan & the greater part of Pakistan was kept out-of-bounds for them. After 9/11, all these entities were forced to relocate from Afghanistan into Pakistan & that’s when the PA (creators) found it impossible to compartmentalise its proteges & keep them on a tight leash. Consequently, the sub-conventional threats posed by such entities then became omni-directional & Xinjiang too began being targetted by not just Pakistan-origin Muslim terrorists, but also by those hailing from Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UK, Sudan, Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, Bahrain, Chechnya, Bosnia, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria & Morocco.

‘Pakistan would utilize them to provide an umbrella for its sub-conventional war against our nation’……………………………………………………..Again, that was the scenario prevailing until late 2007. Following that, Afghanistan’s Riyasat-e Amniyat-e Milli, or the National Directorate of Security (NDS) was ably assisted in every manner by its Indian counterparts to open up a corresponding front in Baluchistan. As a result, the traditional Pakistani negotiating card of ‘terrorism’ has been totally neutralised & does not hold any value any more. Consequently, Pakistan today has no other choice but to negotiate ‘under duress’ with India for a permanent solution to the previously irresolvable issue of J & K. And when the two disputing parties commence negotiating, what it means is that the terms & conditions have already been decided PRIOR to sitting at the negotiating table (like accepting the LoC as the permanent boundary) & the negotiations are only about sorting out the mechanics of implementation. Both China & the US have played key roles here, & the recent approval of project financing from the World Bank for two hydroelectric projects to be undertaken in the Northern Areas (which did not draw any Indian protest) is proof of where matters are ultimately headed for.

Cont’d below….

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

As for the China-India equation, any decision-maker in Beijing would find it extremely foolhardy to destabilise a neighbouring country like India, with whom bilateral trade ties are on a steady upswing. Furthermore, China is extremely anxious not to see India being ‘economically/financially seduced’ by the Japan-US combine. It is therefore in China’s interest to significantly lower the points of dispute with India, especially the LAC issue, by finding a permanent solution ASAP. This was the overriding point that was articulated & explained by the visiting Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi to his Indian counterparts last week & it will be elaborated further upon by President Xi Jinping himself when he meets NaMo later next month during the BRICS Summit. That’s what Wang Yi meant when he said in Delhi that the time has now come to roll off one’s sleeves & get to work, since all the talking has already been done by both sides.

To SLAVA: 1) My apologies, for I had meant new-generation ballistic missiles capable of depressed trajectory flights, & not those of 1980s vintage design of the types in service with the PA. 2) No timeframes have been discussed yet at official levels. SSNs may have increased acoustic signatures, but they are nullified by the deeper cruising depths of SSNs compared to SSKs. SSNs can operate at both increased distances as well as for far longer durations non-stop IF the crew complement is changed at-sea. 3) It’s primarily due to superior systems integration. MiG-29UPGs too will have reduced maintenance reqmts due to the adoption of ‘on-condition’ MRO techniques. 4) There’s still a long way to go for turbofans capable of powering MRCAs. The reqd quantum & quality of ground-based test facilities & access to rare earths/materials is not yet in place. 5) Already answered that yesterday.

1) There can’t be a single MRH design to fulfil the reqmts of all three armed services. Different users want different types of MRHs, ranging from models with 12-tonne MTOW to models with 16-tonne MTOW. 2) The MRTA can indeed be developed as a regional airliner as well. That will be a far less roskier option when compared to what NAL has proposed for its conception of a 70-seat regional commuter airliner. For a long-endurance AEW & CS, the A330-200 platform or the existing A-50I platform are the best bets.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: You meant the stories appearing here:

(I’d rather you did not quote weblinks emanating from chat-forums meant only for retards)

As a simple news-item it’s all right. But when you delve deeper into the subject, the flaws start appearing, but it also confirms my earlier assertion back in 2012 about the IAF insisting on a radical makeover for the Tejas Mk2 MRCA. It also confirms why Dr V K Saraswat took an all-expenses-paid joy-ride on the Gripen two years ago, photos of which were splashed all over at that time. Now, let’s turn to the factoids. The Tejas Mk2 is largely seen as a global competitor to the Gripen & consequently, Saab has every reason to see the former killed. Secondly, the only significant design challenge facing the Tejas Mk2 is the redesign of its twin air-intakes—a challenge that can only be overcome if ADA seeks GE Aero Engine’s assistance (just like what Saab has done for the Gripen NG). What Saab is proposing a virtual redesign of the Tejas Mk2’s airframe, which is totally uncalled for. In addition, it is TOTALLY WRONG to claim that the Tejas Mk1 MRCA was not designed with operational availability in mind, since the IAF’s ASQR has clearly prescribed & quantified the availability & serviceability parameters. In fact, Tejas Mk1 has to date consistently demonstrated close to 5 man-hours of maintenance-per-flying-hour WHENEVER the reqd set of automated test equipment (ATE) is available at an air base. Thus, if such ATEs are available at every air base housing the Tejas Mk1 or M2, there should never be any MRO problem.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Let’s now examine the MRO philosophy of both the Rafale & Tejas Mk1 & Mk2: BOTH feature comprehensive and accurate Integrated Testability covering all aircraft systems and allowing Printed Circuit Boards exchange at the flight-line: Testability targets call for a 95% fault detection, plus the ability to detect all safety-critical failures. A unique (automatic) centralised weaponry safety system gets rid of all safety pins and end-of-runway actions, and contributes to achieve outstanding Turn-Around-Time-in-Operation. For self-supportability, both are designed to require the minimum of ground support equipment: both are equipped with on-board oxygen generation systems, and with closed-loop cooling fluid systems for on-board coolanol and nitrogen circuits. The built-in APU provides electrical power until the engine-driven generators come on-line. There is no complete airframe or engine depot-level inspection required throughout the aircrafts’ service lives, and only specific components such as Shop Replaceable Units (SRU) are returned for maintenance/repair. The same philosophy applies to the M88 & F404 & F414 turbofans composed of modules that are interchangeable without needing full balancing and re-calibration. For maintenance and repair, only modules or parts are returned to the depot/OEM. Both aircraft-types need reduced ground manning levels (30% gains compared with the Mirage 2000), and lowered personnel training requirements. For instance, the side-opening canopy facilitates ejection-seat removal within 10 minutes, requiring only 2 men for a seat exchange. Logistics footprint reduction results from the elimination of heavy external means required with conventional aircraft. For example, no flight-line external tester is now required due to the extensive use of integrated testability. Also the elimination of engine run-up test cell is a unique achievement. Finally, ‘in-condition’ maintenance monitoring concept results in a limited scheduled maintenance plan. Throughout its life, both aircraft-types will never leave their operational air bases for maintenance reasons.

Slava said...

@raw13 . I am not talking about short range missiles . But missiles that are used for "city killing" the lack of a better word 700km + using depressed trajectory missiles like like the k 15 (and if am reading this right also the k4 ) . Such missile make interception muchharder . Also the fact that the k 15 is supposedly powered till the end of its flight (unlike normal ballistic missiles ) give credence to the fact that it can be manuevered without too much trouble unlike normal ballistic warheads that simply coast to their targets after the boost phase . I really want to know more about the technologies pioneered in this missile because so far we hae used udmh fueled rockets (the same fuel used on the pslv solid boosters) which causes these missiles to be so large . Considering how much smaller the k 15 compared to the agni who have the same range (10meters vs 15 meters length .74 meters vs 1m diameter) not even considering that a depressed trajectory inherently reduces the range of the missile .Tt appears that drdo has started using composite fuels (i am not sure what this class of fuel is called exactly ) but it is the same as that which is used by SLBMs of the big powers. It carries the implication that India has taken the 1st step to fielding missiles of the class of the trident,topolM or df 31. I remember it being discussed in the comment section a while back as how some technology was transferred to the agni 5 design team from the k 15 . I was hoping that Prasun K Sengupta would shed some light on this matter . I am completely going on guess work . The utter lack of publicity of the entire 'k' project also intrigues me. This is a huge step forward (if I am right) . From the agni1 -agni 4 that most of what was achieved was by making the missile bigger and improving the guidance system and making the rocket body lighter. It always amuses me when some forum dwellers try to make the claim that a 10000KM + range Indian ICBM will be the "surya" a PSLV rigged as an ICBM.I really cannot think of anything more impractical. Wow .. That post was longer than I intended ..Cheers

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SOUBHAGYA: In high-altitude warfare, accurate fire-support can be delivered ONLY BY field artillery howitzers & rocket-powered air-launched PGMs. Nothing else works. The IAF Mi-17 that was shot down by a FIM-92 Stinger was not equipped with an off-board countermeasures dispenser. Both the IAF & IA have been conducting joint services high-altitude warfare since late 1947. The IAF conducted several close air support sorties in J & K between 1947 & 1949.

Vikrant said...

1)With the Iraqi state collapsing is it possible that the state be trifurcated among kurds,shia & sunnis(defacto it already has) will Iraq & Syria be shia-sunni battlegrounds in the foreseeable future,with Iran and KSA holding the string or even formal intervention??
Iran has already sent IRGC men in Iraq to protect baghdad.I hope ISIS leaves the shia shrines of karbala and najaf cause if they are harmed middle east will be in sectarian war.

Vikrant said...

1)What is the status of P-15B DDG and how will it boost IN in the IOR.
2)As all good insurgents do the Taliban will just move to Afg from waziristan while pak sends F-16s &Gunships and then come back after 3 months largely unscathed,this makes me wonder has PA ever done a long sustained CI campaign of the sort the IA has mastered?
3)Is this campaign in waziristan just for public consumption and for PM Sharif to save his back??
4)Can we expect attacks in big cities as retaliation?
5)Is DRDO making a towed array sonar for SSNs?
6)What would your preference be instead of a mountain strike corps or is it the best option?
7)In this election BJP did make a breakthrough inNE region do you see BJP coming to power in assam and arunachal?

slava said...

Thank you for your answers . So it's basic modularity and testability important features in all good design . . 5 hours foe every 1 hour flight is extremely impressive .I have maybe been reading the wrong news it was claimed that the tegas required days of maintainance between flights due to modifications for accommodating the f404 engines. Regarding mrh is there a long term plan for domestic development/ production ? Your answers are Much appreciated.

Rajeev Chaturvedi said...


On RAFALE deal, there are three news items which appeared this month, so far. See:




The problem is which one to believe? What is current status on this program?

Reddy said...

Hi Prasun, what are the technologies India can get from Japan, if not finished products? Thanks

Anonymous said...

Prasun da,
Recent report say that IN can order ASW naval Dhruv.
I think IN should order 20nos to 40nos NALH ASW versions to tide over the immediate crisis in ASW Helo capability.
Your take on this?
Earlier reports said that IN will go in for 16nos more NALH to add to present 8 nos and 1 NALH was ordered along with 40nos ALH for Indian army for trials.
And Coast guard will go for 16nos Alh to add to present 4nos.
Thus the total number of NALH with IN and CG will be 24+20=40nos.

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa ,

India’s Ministry of Defence has issued a tender to L & T , ABG Shipyard , Pipavav , Goa Shipyard and GRSE to build 16 shallow water anti-submarine warfare vessels .|head

Since these companies do not have the technology to develop the SENSORS and other equipments

(1) From which OEM's do you think they will purchase the SENSORS and other equipments ?

(2) What are the SENSORS & equipments that are likely to be purchased ?

Thank You

Gessler said...

Prasun, what do you think could be the final outcome of the ISIS advance? Will they be able to realize the Khorasan dream?

What will be the international military response to this? Will India get involved in some way?

Eagerly awaiting answers.

K.RAVI said...

Hello Prasun ,

The Union Home Ministry has issued a CIRCULAR stating that use of HINDI will be made compulsory for all official work & those who do the official work in HINDI will be rewarded . This puts people like myself from the SOUTH at a disadvantage .

Do you think that forcing people to use HINDI will again cause a major ant HINDI agitation in Southern & Eastern India as people in these states do not have a good grasp of HINDI ?


Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRANT: 1) The US airborne surveillance assets & strike aircraft from aircraft carriers, along with Iranian ground forces, will take care of ISIS. 2) The first of four P-15B DDGs is still under fabrication. 3) It is for the PA to save its reputation & raise the morale of its personnel. 4) Of course. 5) Nope. 6) An airmobile Brigade backed up by LAHs. 7) It all depends on whether or not the BJP can deliver on its promises.

To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: All 3 news reports are flawed. The single most pressing challenge for HAL today is financial resource mobilisation, since it has to simultaneously 1) set up from scratch the final assembly line as well as the various production processes for the Tejas Mk1 MRCA; & 2) set up from scratch the Rafale’s licenced-production processes as well as the final assembly line. In no other country can such an industrial endeavour be undertaken today. Had HAL been publicly-listed, it would easily have been able to strike industrial partnerships with cash-rich corporate entities like RELIANCE or TATA.

To REDDY: None. No one in this world parts with technologies.

To Anon@10.23AM: And how will these Dhruv NALHs be parked inside the warships’ hangars, when the Dhruv’s main rotor blades & tail-rotor section cannot be folded till this day? All Dhruvs ordered to date by the IN & ICGS are meant for coastal SAR & will operate only from coastal air bases.

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) The competing designs chosen by these Indian shipbuilders will all be of imported origin & may come from TKMS or DCNS or Vympel of Russia. 2) The NPOL-developed Abhay lightweight LFDS sonar suite unveiled during DEFEXPO 2014 will go on board these ASW vessels. All the rest of the sensors (optronic & well as surface search/navigation radars), weapons (like torpedoes) will have to be imported from various sources, as will their bridge & comms equipment.

To GESSLER: The US airborne surveillance assets & strike aircraft from aircraft carriers, along with Iranian ground forces, will take care of ISIS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To K RAVI: There’s nothing to worry about, since such a directive can only come from the Minister heading the Union MHA & will most probably be limited to only the personnel working in the Union MHA & the CAPFs. In any case, one can’t expect anything more coming from a Jat (who by nature are quite brazen & you can experience this first-hand whenever you go to Delhi or Haryana or UP). Haven’t you seen all the PIB-issued photos of this Minister sitting with his right leg perched over the left leg whenever he meets his peers or visiting dignitaries? Such a sitting position during a formal meeting/audience is globally considered to be a downright arrogant sitting posture that’s extremely revolting to anyone sitting opposite to him. It may well be alright to adopt such a sitting posture at his farmhouse, but NEVER at his office. Guess no one has brought this to his attention so far.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

This is what I mean by an arrogant sitting posture:

While, this is a dignified & civilized sitting posture:

Anonymous said...

Our President also keeps his legs like rajnath do, but it may get nullified given his small build.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

you said to [Anon@10.23AM: And how will these Dhruv NALHs be parked inside the warships’ hangars, when the Dhruv’s main rotor blades & tail-rotor section cannot be folded till this day? All Dhruvs ordered to date by the IN & ICGS are meant for coastal SAR & will operate only from coastal air bases.]

but if i correctly remember when i asked this same question you replied that problemo has been solved

btw if you also remember i had asked you about shia sunni conflict spreading, the current crisis brought by ISIS may break up the entire middle east. iraq, syria are torn between shia sunni, turkey is torn by kurdish and sunni.

if iran jumps in iraq as you say it will give the world (USA, britain)a perfect excuse to impose sanctions on iran and dislodge the current iran style of government (they are still pissed about 1979).

if iran jumps into iraq i am sure saudi will also jump in, ultimately the middle east will become a catastrophic area. the biggest loser in all these will be developing countries like India (not usa as its shale oil/gas reserves reduce dependence on middle east & most of all it will sell weapons to both sides & more rich)

no one says anything about the responsibility of usa which created the current iraq problem since 1991, had alienated the shia since 1979, gave israel free hand to do anything. dont know if usa will ever realize its all its making since decades.


Joydeep Ghosh

Anonymous said...

Sreenivas R

Prasun da,
I too have the same query as of Joydeep, that the folding blade problem was supposed to have been solved. I saw a few pics of Dhruv in some defense forum with folded blades. But what my query is how difficult is it to solve this folding blade/tail rotor problem. since it has been done by so many copters, it must not be very technically challenging (or is it?), manual folding might be time consuming i guess. Are there any other challenging issues for Dhruv to operate from frigates/destroyers in ASW roles. I dont see it as an ideal platform for that role, but however, given that our NMRH and Naval utility helos are struck and not likely in 3-4 years, as a stop gap measure cant we operate them in a small way (as fitting role to its size). Or is it like asking the impossible.

Thomas A said...

Hi prasun,

Is this report on consortium credible ?

K.RAVI said...

Hello Prasun ,

Thanks for the clarification . The fact is the Birth rate in North India is high and is not slowing down . Whereas the birth rate in South India is very low and therefore the population in South India is decreasing.

Today North Indians justify imposition of Hindi by saying that 45% of people have Hindi as their First Language . Due to the increase in the population of North India this figure will cross 50% in another 5 years .

Don’t you think that then HINDI will be made the national language across India ?
Thank You

Kittu said...

Govt should leave what language to speak to public and focus on it's duties and promises.

This is the problem with BJP. Does it want to brand it self a north indian hindi party? or pan india national party?

am sure with this kind of mentality it wont long last.

am sure with this kind of mentality it wont improve its presence in non-hindi speaking states.

am sure this kind of mentality leads to ideas of separatism and the ideas of disintegration of a nation geographically.

it is for sure that the hindi speaking states drags india backwards, stalling india, contributing none.

Ex Intelligence said...

A number of people in Southern & Eastern INDIA believes that they have been kept in India only to be exploited by the North Indian. There is a grain of truth in this perception.

Unfortunately , India may one day disintegrate over the Language issue.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH & SREENIVAS R: Allow me to clarify: The Dhruv’s NALH version 1) does not have strengthened tricycle undercarriage that is required for landing on any warship’s deck when the warship is cruising in the seas. 2) Its rigid main rotor-hub does not have an automatic blade-folding mechanism. Adding such a mechanism imposes a 100kg weight penalty. 3) The tail-rotor assembly can’t be folded as yet, manually or automatically. 4) cannot stay airborne for 2 hours & 20 minutes at sea while having enough fuel reserves for an additional 20 minutes of flying endurance. The Dhruv NALH does have a manually folding blade mechanism by making use of segmented main rotor blades that are 5.1 metres wide. However, when operating out of warships, using manpower to unfold the blades is a time-consuming process & it defeats the very purpose of having a shipborne helicopter for use in SAR or ASW missions. Nor can such a helicopter be kept parked in the open on a warship & without access to any on-board hangar. The only other option therefore is to use it as a shore-based platform for personnel transportation, flying training & coastal SAR.

Regarding the MRH, here again one cannot have a standard specification-cum-operating parameters for three different end-users, since one of them (IN) wants a 12-tonne all-up-weight helicopter, while the other (IAF) wants a 14-tonne machine, while another (IA) wants a 16-tonne platform. In other words, the ASQR, GSQR & NSQR all vary. Consequently, at most the ASQR & GSQR will have to be the same, while the NSQR is allowed to be different. Only then can a common airframe be designed & developed. This was the approach adopted by AgustaWestland & Sikorsky while developing the AW-101 and S-92.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To K RAVI: Hindi’s usage throughout India became mandatory the day it was declared as the country’s national language. But that’s not the main issue. The main issue of concern among non-Hindi speakers is whether it will made mandatory as the sole method of instruction, replacing English. In my view, that’s next to impossible, since there are no words in Hindi for several English words. For instance, how does one literally translate Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd & Bharat Electronics Ltd? What’s the Hindi equivalent of ‘aerospace’ or ‘genre’ or ‘single-crystal turbine blade’ or ‘diesel-electric submarine’ or ‘nuclear-powered submarine’? The answer is simple: nothing. Consequently, at best what will happen is that just the brief covering letter for all official correspondence (containing no more than 2 paras) within the Govt of India will be composed in Hindi merely for formality, while all attached correspondence will continue to be drafted in English.

The real apprehension is over the degree of importance attached to the Hindi language exam scores during UPSC exams. For instance, will priority & precedence be accorded to the marks scored in Hindi as a language subject, while treating the scores on all other subjects as secondary (as was done to some extent in the mid-1980s and late 1980s)? If that’s the case, then almost all the future top bureaucrats at both Central- & State-levels will in future hail only from Bihar, MP & UP. Already, there’s a disproportionately high number of presently-serving bureaucrats, police officers & other internal security personnel hailing from these 3 states.

Russ said...

Any update on UAC/HAL Il-214 Multirole Transport Aircraft , nag anti tank missile?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

South Indian said...

@ex intel,
it is not a belief, its true.

if u read news papers, u should understand this.

as prasun said, while the power yielding positions like politicians, babus etc are coming from hindi speaking states and contributing nothing to the nation, ISRO/ DRDO / IITs, IT Companies, Pharmacy firms are filled with Tamilians, Telugus and Mallus and contributing to the Nation both at the technological and financial levels.

If we are not being treated equally due to where we born in India, what language we speak and keeping at a disadvantageous position to those of hindi speaking guys WE BETTER HAVE OUR OWN COUNTRY.

what we are good at:
State: Manmade Assets (Natural Assets)
AP: IT, Pharmacy, Crops, NRIs, Engineers(see any IIT now), ISRO, DRDO (Ports, Water, Coal, Forests)

TN: IT, Automobiles (Ports, Coal)
KL: NRIs, Nurses (Ports, Forests)
KA: IT, MNCs (Forests, Water, Ports)
MH: Banks, Ports, MNCs, Bollywood (Ports, Water)
GJ: NaMo, Refineries, Solar, Chemicals



shame on you guys..

if I speak a language which is my mother tongue and if it is not hindi, and due to this am being treated as a second class citizen, I prefer not to live in the so called India, rather am happy to LIVE IN MY COUNTRY CALLED SOUTH INDIA.


Slava said...

1.You have stressed many times that the TOT does not help weapon development in anyway . But what is the point of TOT in that case . If we are taught a certain design process can that not be built upon it in the future ?
2. The brahmos development in confusing for me . From the look of things it is just an oniks . What exactly did brahmos aerospace "develop". And in this joint development by your earlier posts we have gained expertise in many areas . But that does not make sense why would the russians give away any IP ?(THe future air launched versions are indeed new developments I refer to the ones already in service)
3.While the Pak fa development appears to go over the head of HAL engineers . Do you think with the IL 214 joint development India will gain expertise in aircraft of that category ?
4, It appears that India is always hamstrung by the lack of small but critical components in many systems (from elevators, arrestor cable for the aircraft carrier to components for something as small as an anti submarine corvette, indeed you claim the design itself will be a foreign one to ejector seats . So my question Is investing in and developing all component suppliers and developers in India is less profitable compared to buying such things "off the shelf". Even in the long run ?
5. It appears China has cornered the world market in rare earth production and it has developed this by having massive infrastructure for it . India has sufficient resources but has miniscule to non existent production . This is particularly jarring in the case of titanium (I know not a "rare earth" but to give an example) . We export all that we mine. Is this not (and this is connected to the previous question)a zero sum game . They develop at Indias expense how can India build credible an Industrial/military complex when the base is so weak .
6. Looking at the abilities of all IIR guided anti tank munitions none have been able to achieve what the Indian army has been demanding of the NAG hitting a target at 4+ kms in the 50C of the thar desert . The spike/javlin have both failed at this range the russians are sticking with SACLOS, ACLOS. Why is there such a stringent requirment indeed why didn't drdo go with MMW/SACLOS from the start . What is the role of the NAG , it is too large to be used as a bolt on an the sides of IFVs , cant be launched from tank cannons nether is it man portable . Is the indian army commited to raising "missile tank destroyer " regiments in the future . For the only missile in its class are used in the air ground role (AT 15 , hellfire ) or in a niche role as BMP 3 based dedicated tank destroyer.

Shekhar said...

To all language warriors,

1. As it would be clear to you all of you by now, the circular to additional use of Hindi, besides English, in all social media circulars came from Deptt of Official Languages (Ministry of Home), during the UPA time. Mr Chidambaram (a Tamil speaker) used to be its head and then Mr Shinde (A Marathi speaker) was the one who issued it on 10th March 2014. So I would assume that its nothing new.

2. A sizeable section of people in Hindi speaking states in India is not proficient in english. So if govt social media circulars are also issued in Hindi, it would easier for a major poor population to become aware of rules, regulations, policies and issues, that may directly affect their lives.

3. Even in North India, major population shift is turning towards English now. Don't believe me, go an check the wall-advertisements in Bihar, UP, MP an other Hindi speaking states. You will fins hundreds of ads for english medium private schools and even a labour class fellow prefers to send his kinds to these english medium schools now.

4. In two-three generations, English will be the main lingua franca of India. But at the same time, other languages will also flourish, as its evident in regional cinema, TV and culture.

5. Most important, if someone claims that Tamil or Telugu or other South Indian languages will be threatened in any manner, that's laughable. Its won't happen as they are toooooo important to Indian fabric.

So quit language combat now. The government has clarified its stand now and the issue must be dropped. Hey, Prime Minister himself is a native Gujju speaker and many times, I can't understand his pure Hindi!!!

K.RAVI said...

Hi Prasun ,

Thanks for the insights .

In my experience since 1947 the North Indians have completely dominated POLITICS in INDIA . They have kept the South & East in INDIA for the sole purpose of exploiting the people of these states in every possible way .

And if this is NOT enough , the birth rate in UP & BIHAR is extremely HIGH and they are exporting these good for nothing people across INDIA where slowly but steadily these UP & BIHARI migrants are becoming a majority .

rad said...

Hi Prasun
Imposing Hindi is a going to open a pandoras box in the south,It is generally perceived in tamil nad that apart from people living in cities the average north indian cant speak english well and thus tries to impose hindi to shield his ignorance of english. A guy from rajasthan some time ago landed up in coimbatore to attend a cultural festival and found to his shock that the richshaw wallah could converse in Passing english!
Chidambaram and tharoor are a few politicians that can speak good english and are generally called snobish by other politicians who cant speak well.Saying that, none of the dravidian politicians can speak good english as well, much remains to be learnt in diction and framing sentences .This is because they come from a certain strata that shun english as well.The level of literacy is high in the south and every person who has passed+2 can speak english or understand it . Even a laborer in the south desires to put his child in english medium given the choice.
There is a movement in tamil nad to make tamil the official language in courts.Tamil is the prevalent language in the lower courts ie magistrate, and even some district courts.It has been shunned by the high court.There was this lawyer who started to speak in tamil in the high court , one of the judges happened to be from the north started replying in hindi and that shut him up.
I really wonder if science can be explained in hindi like e=mc2 etc!

raw13 said...

If the south were to go their way. They would be the first country in South Asia, that would develop along the lines of europe.

Fact is India is a federation of nation states but is not a nation in its own right and the north indians/nationalists would love to do that.

spatel said...


What do you make of this sir, is it true:

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

untitled india said...

It is sad to see so much bigotry ... But I will put in a more positive note . I am originally from noisa but I have lived in the south for more than 15 years . In this time I have seen a large level of intermingling of cultures . This is an irreversible process and everyday our people come closer together . The rise of a composite urban cosmopolitan culture is rapidly growing and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it . Small hiccups and snafus like the this one have happened in the past but every time things revert to the status quo. We were for less united in the past and we will be far more united in the future .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

New insightful documentaries about Flight MH-370’s disappearance:

RD said...

Thanks for the report on drones. Unregulated & unauthorised drones in future will be a nuisance & will be used for smuggling and other terrorist activities. Infact in US alone there has been resistance to use of drones-

It will be extremely difficult to track & manage drones as they don't have specified flight plan.

Souvik said...

Sir,please perdon my ignorance but could you please elaborate in detail what happened in Neelam valey between 1993-96??What did Indian Army do and what was the outcome??

Thank you.

DAshu said...

some really interesting game of chess is going on in Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukrain

united India said...

@anon at 3:06 PM
So by your own admission the hindi states are working harder . You just defeated your own argument.
And If you think the southern states would have achieved their growth without migrant labour and professionals I'm afraid you have a very poor knowledge of economics.Less than 50% of those working in IT/finance companies are localites .Go check which language the labourers working on the metro/flyovers in the southern states speak . Without cheap Bihari labour everything would be much more expensive and quite possibly would not be built .
Remember how we like to complain about how India is undergoing a brain drain as talented people leave the country to study and get jobs . The exact same thing happens to UP and bihar as their best people leave and work in richer states . Go ahead cry more about how you are being "exploited ".

Anonymous said...

@united india

am not saying anything bad about hindi states, I just don't like some one bullying me just because I can not speak Hindi.

am those of people who keeps my country first.

Ex Intelligence said...

Regarding this HINDI controversy the US played a role in it .

First , India was roped in by the Yanks into their list of SIGNIT partners ( the "third class " list)

So , Rajnath Singh travelled to the US ( almost incognito like Sonia Gandhi's US visits) soon after NaMo's win . The alibi being to get [SIGNIT]Intel from the US as well as prepare the ground for NaMo's US visit .

This is where the US State Dept / CIA asked Rajnath Singh to release the circular promoting the use of HINDI for official purposes

The US knew what the reaction would be & as of now they are testing the waters to figure out how best a "color revolution " can be launched in India .

S Nair said...

Hi Prasun,
I am agreeing with Ex Intelligence here. If you have time please do comment on it.
i don't think these resistance and Indian anti-corruption movements were spontaneous. Root and Catalyst were foreign.


S Nair said...

Hi Prasun,

Isn't this a duplication ?
Currently HAL is also doing exactly same for 228 program.


Anonymous said...

@ex intel

how credible your claim is:

"This is where the US State Dept / CIA asked Rajnath Singh to release the circular promoting the use of HINDI for official purposes

The US knew what the reaction would be & as of now they are testing the waters to figure out how best a "color revolution " can be launched in India ."

is india so cheap to receive such instructions?


Rajeev Chaturvedi said...


Please have a look at this tender by Indian Navy:

Why has Indian Navy fixed an amount (2.25 BN USD) to the size of the deal? Why can't it let the market discover the price of the ships?

As it is, all these prices change by the time of signing deals. Rafale began as 10 billion USD deal and now stands at 25 billion USD.

So what is purpose of putting an amount on the deal, before it even begins?

Please explain.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Will answer all remaining queries on this thread later today.

Anonymous said...

the 1 which nvr happens

retrodynamic said...

Technology Submission - Novel Rotary-Turbo-InFlow Tech - Featured Development

Atypical InFlow Thermodynamic
Technology Proposal Submission
Novel Fueled Motor Engine Type

*State of the art Innovative concept Top system Higher efficient percent.
Have similar system of the Aeolipile Heron Steam device from Alexandria 10-70 AD. -New Form-Function Motor-Engine Device. Next Step, Epic Design Change, Broken-Seal Revelation. -Desirable Power-Plant Innovation.

YouTube; * Atypical New • GEARTURBINE / Retrodynamic = DextroRPM VS LevoInFlow + Ying Yang Thrust Way Type - Non Waste Looses

-This innovative concept consists of hull and core where are held all 8 bteps of the work-flow which make the concept functional. The core has several gears and turbines which are responsible for these 8 steps (5 of them are dedicated to the turbo stages). The first step is fuel compression, followed by 2 cold turbo levels. The fourth step is where the fuel starts burning – combustion stage, which creates thrust for the next, 5th step – thrust step, which provides power to the planetary gears and turbines and moves the system. This step is followed by two hot turbo steps and the circle is enclosed by the final 8th step – bigger turbine. All this motion in a retrodynamic circumstance effect, wich is plus higher RPM speed by self motion. The Reaction at front of the action.

*8-X/Y Thermodynamic CYCLE - Way Steps:
1)1-Compression / bigger
2)2-Turbo 1 cold
3)2-Turbo 2 cold
4)2-Combustion - circular motion flames / opposites
5)2-Thrust - single turbo & planetary gears / ying yang
6)2-Turbo 2 hot
7)2-Turbo 1 hot
8)1-Turbine / bigger

-With Retrodynamic Dextrogiro vs Levogiro Phenomenon Effect. / Rotor-RPM VS InFlow / front to front; "Collision-Interaction Type" - inflow vs blades-gear-move. Technical unique dynamic innovative motion mode. [Retrodynamic Reaction = When the inflow have more velocity the rotor have more RPM Acceleration, with high (XY Position) Momentum] Which the internal flow (and rotor) duplicate its speed, when activated being in a rotor (and inflow) with [inverse] opposite Turns. A very strong Novel torque power concept.

-Non waste parasitic looses for; friction, cooling, lubrication & combustion. -Shape-Mass + Rotary-Motion = Inertia-Dynamic / Form-Function Wide [Flat] Cylindrical shape + positive dynamic rotary mass = continue Inertia kinetic positive tendency motion..

-Combustion 2Two continue circular [Rockets] flames. [ying yang] opposite one to the other. – With 2TWO very long distance INFLOW [inside propulsion] CONDUITS. -4 TURBOS Rotary Total Thrust-Power Regeneration Power System. -Mechanical direct 2two [Small] Planetary Gears at polar position. -Like the Ying Yang Symbol/Concept. -Wide out the Rotor circumference were have much more lever [HIGH Torque] POWER THRUST. -No blade erosion by sand & very low heat target signature profile. -3 points of power thrust; 1-flow way, 2-gear, 3-turbine. *Patent; Dic. 1991 IMPI Mexico #197187 All Rights Reserved. Carlos Barrera.

Prosys Sols said...

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