The third successful
test-firing of the BrahMos-1 Block-3 supersonic land-attack cruise missile took
place at 10.38am on July 8, 2014 from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur
in Balasore, Odisha. Following its launch, the missile flew through the
designated 290km distance at Mach 2.8, culminating in a steep dive toward its designated
target. Dr A Sivathanu Pillai, CEO and MD of BrahMos Aerospace, confirmed that it
was a text book launch achieving 100% results, executed with high-precision
from a wheeled Mobile Autonomous Launcher (MAL) prepared by the Indian Army’s 3rd
BrahMos-1 regiment (the two earlier regiments possess the BrahMos-1 Block-2 missiles),
which is now being formed. In a historical first, the Block 3 missile’s advanced
navigation-cum-guidance system used an indigenously developed software algorithm
for integrating inputs from multiple GPS navigation satellites (like Glonass
& IRNSS-1).
134 comments:
BrahMos-1 Block-3 is suppose to be a 550km range missile , then why only 290 km testing. any constraint to test full range?
THE DRDO , THE INDUSTIES INVOLVED IN THE PRODUCTION AND BRAHMOS LTD ALL NEED TO BE CONGRATULATED . THE RANGE MUST NOW BE PROGESSIVELY INCREASED TO 1000 KM THEN 1500KM AND FINALLY 3000KM TO MAKE IT A FORMIDABLE WORLD CLASS AIR , SURFACE AND SEA LAUNCHED MISSILE . THE ENTIRE PAK CHINESE BORDER MUST BE COVERED SOON BY RAISING NEW REGIMENTS . THE MACH 5 AND MACH 7 VERSIONS WILL INSTILL FEAR IN THE HEARTS OF THE ENEMY AND PREVENT BORDER VIOLATIONS .
You have time and again mentioned there have been islands of excellence among mediocrity (reference to companies, technology development in India in defence sector). Request you to specify such companies and technology development
I think the G3OM (GPS, GLONASS, GAGAN on a Module) receiver is small enough to be fitted on Pinaka
artillery rockets and smart bombs to make deadly
accurate.
What's ur take on it Prasun Sir?
Prasun Da ,
(1) The amount sanctioned for Capital acquisition for defense is Rs.5000 crores . Does this mean the MMRCA deal is off the table for this fiscal at least ?
(2) Does INDIA have a THERMONUCLEAR bomb ? There were a couple of reports in the media where some experts both Indian & Western who said that the Thermonuclear tests at Pokhran 2 failed ?
(3) Can Private Russian defense companies sell hardware/software to the Indian government or Private Indian companies ?
Thank You
-Sujoy
Hi Prasun
Please explain the top attack version of the amraam missile that you have mentioned. Is it that it it zooms up and attacks from above?, in That case it is simple to put a jammer on top of the ac?.I think it is not very difficult to incorporate it in the astra as well.In That case we can make a long range anti awacs missile that can attack the awacs form top ie that by zooming up to 100,000 ft and then diving down ? I doubt todays awacs have top mounted sensors to monitor vertically above them.
the 3gom chip can be a boon for precsion missiles off all sorts ie if the claim of 3 meters is correct.Massed produced it can be on any missile like the pinaka, unguided winged bombs, I think if we have developed the algorithm to put a 2.8 mach missile in a 3 meter CEP then doing the same for any subsonic missile should be a piece of cake. But then gagan also depends upon the american gps so we are back to square one?.
If we had glonass, galelio,IRNSS in one receiver than it would be fool proof. Why is russia not giving us the precsion code to their glonass??.
Dr. Avinash Chander at it again, at an IDSA lecture, claimed that the AMCA is well on track and has the IAF's backing, moreover that it shall weigh 25t and exceed the Rafale's performance.
With all due respect to the great man, would it kill him to stick to the facts or better yet get a prototype in the air before making such claims?
Also, in the same lecture he mentioned that the Varunastra will be ready for induction next year, last I checked things weren't looking quite as rosy as that with the torpedo program?
Prasun Da,
Is this some sort of the cruel joke?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3emaECKhZEU/U74f8L2IKcI/AAAAAAAAWxE/5m80ayOHZT8/s1600/1ST+SEA+TRIALS+KOLKATA.jpg
At best I can make out 16 VLS cells fore and 16 VLS cells aft for the air defence munitions (discounting the 16 VLS for AShMs or LACMs), if that is an accurate count then if the VLS cells house both the Barak-1 and the Barak-8 then we are looking at less than even 32 Barak-8s per ship? How can we possibly classify it as an air defence destroyer at this rate? I can't spot any separate cells for the Barak-1 other than the 16 behind the primary weapons VLS and the 16 above the hanger, have I missed something?
To DASHU: For the very same reason why it could not be tested out to its maximum range at Pokhran, i.e. firing range limitations. Anmy missile at Pokhran can be fired out to only 55km distance, while in the Bay of Bengal the limitation is due to congested marine navigation channels. Only way out of this is to create a floating range anchored off the Andaman & Nicobar Islands.
To FINANCEBLOGGER: It is all explained & highlighted beautifully by Dr Avinash Chander himself at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaetX21oNWw
To BHASWAR: To be fair to Dr Chander, he was quite honest in his presentation on July 7, but due to the paucity of time, could not elaborate or contextualise all his points. But it does deserve an objective critique & I’m already on it. But it will be an exhaustive one from me. The P-15A DDG does have only 32 VLS cells for the Barak-2 LR-SAM—twin eight-cell mounts fore & another identical set aft. BUT, there are another 32 cannister-encased missiles as RELOADS kept internally.
To RAD: Yes, RAM can take down supersonic ASCMs & has already been successfully tested against Kh-31As, as I had stated in the previous thread.
To BISWAJIT: It is both hilarious & disgusting to see how one idiotic ‘desi’ news reporter gets it all wrong & yet his/her version of the story gets accepted as being the gospel truth by almost everyone. Take for instance, this story, which has started all the rumour-mongering:
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/Desi-G3OM-Makes-BrahMos-Smarter/2014/07/09/article2320976.ece
This erroneous news-report claims that G3OM stands for ‘GPS, GLONASS, GAGAN on a Module’ & that it is mounted on BrahMos-1 Block-3 for terminal homing purposes. In reality, all that G3OM means is that one combined transmitter/receiver can receive commercial CA-code GPS coordinate data from three types of GPS constellations (Navstar, Glonass & IRNSS), & one space-based augmentation system (GAGAN-SBAS) using GSAT-8/10 satellites solely for commercial air traffic management purposes as mandated by the ICAO. Thus, GAGAN or G3OM have NOTHING to do with military navigation since the CA-standard GPS navigation codes are by no means as accurate as the Py-standard codes available ONLY FROM India’s IRNSS constellation of GPS navigation satellites. Why is this so? Because the Py-standard codes are DENIED to India by BOTH the US & Russia. In fact, the 17gm G3OM fabricated by Bengaluru-based Accord Software and Systems is only one component of a 200gm System-on-Chip (SOC) for civilian navigation purposes that has been developed by the DRDO’s Hyderabad-based ‘Navigation & Embedded Computers Complex' & ANURAG, which has also developed similar MILSPEC SOCs optimised for precision land/sea/air navigation that are embedded within both DRDO-developed MILSPEC fibre-optic gyroscope-based inertial navigation systems (FINGS) & ring laser gyro-based inertial navigation systems (RINS) on board both PGMs & launch platforms.
Cont’d below...
Coming to BrahMos-1, its target detection/acquisition & target designation procedures are very clearly explained in the diagrams above. While the detection/acquisition phases can use data obtained from overhead recce satellites, helicopters or UAVs, target designation for terminal homing is only possible if Py-standard GPS coordinates are available with data accuracies of seven decimal points (which only IRNSS can provide to any Indian military end-user). And getting such accuracies is only possible if either someone in person is standing right next to the target & obtaining the Py-standard code GPS coordinates from IRNSS through a hand-held receiver, or a UAV is directly overflying the target at low-level & recording the coordinates—both such scenarios being possible for enactment by India only in wartime, although the established superpowers do so mostly during peacetime. In case of BrahMos-1, the RINS coupled to the MILSPEC SOC is NOT on-board the missile itself, but is on the Mobile Autonomous Launcher (MAL) & this navigation mechanism is used ONLY for accurately aligning the MAL in relation to the targetted enemy site. Once this is achieved, another RINS (minus the SOC) on board the missile also gets calibrated. Only after this can the missile be fired in a fire-and-forget mode. There is absolutely no need for the missile to get periodic Py-standard code updates from IRNSS & only at its terminal stage is the missile’s on-board X-band SAR seeker activated for target designation. The same is the case for the Nirbhay subsonic cruise missile family. Had both these types of cruise missiles used only GPS navigation data for terminal homing, then there would have been no need for equipping them with X-band SAR seekers. But since they are on board, then there’s a very good reason why they’re there. So, don’t get carried away by any ‘desi’ journalist’s oversimplistic assumptions on terminal homing techniques/technologies which defy all laws of applied physics.
IRNSS-derived Py-standard codes GPS (using SOCs that are coupled to FINGS) for terminal homing will be used for JDAM-type bombs & anti-airfield cruise missiles now being developed by the DRDO, & for inexpensive trajectory correction systems (TCS) using differential GPS navigation/guidance techniques that are also under development now, since the TCS can no longer be imported from IMI of Israel as of 2011 & that’s precisely why the IA is stuck with only 3 Pinaka-1 Regiments.
Prasun the budget has made a substantial hike in ISRO (50%) and DRDO (60%). Looks great. Is it for real ??
HI prasun
Why is israel denying the TCS system to india when it is tom tomming it around the world?.there were reports that they were involved in helping to make
the pinaka more accurate.
What ever happened to the collaboration between india and russia for the glonass system? Why are they denying the py code?.
Does the smerch rocket use a glonass system?.
I wonder how the 3gom chip provided a n accuracy of 3 meters when it has only access to ca code of the glonass and the gps?.In My understanding the ca code can provide 10 meter accuracy only?.
VMT for previous answers, Prasun ji! Here's a new set -
1) Are the Py-standard codes from Beidou being made available for Pakistan now? Or will they be in wartime?
Is there any fixed policy about how China's support services like Beidou will act if Pakistan engages in war with India? And what if in the possibility of a nuclear conflict?
2) Any updates on the Rustom-II UAV? There have been posters depicting a Rustom-II carrying a SAR...is this radar the same as the ones tested on Ka-28PL/Dhruv ASW versions?
3) You had previously mentioned a hint about DRDO/LRDE developing a large SAR radar with 350-400km range to be mounted on Bombardier/Embraer-like jets. Any developments on this?
4) The poster of BrahMos-Mini uploaded in this thread clearly states Mach 3.5 speed, I remember you telling me during DEFEXPO 2014 thread (when the scale model of BrahMos-Mini was first shown_ that there will be no speed increase?
Or is this increase only viable for the air-launched version by some means?
Furthermore, considering the reduced diameter, do you think we could really end up using this Mini with any of our SSKs in future? Type-1500, Kilo or Scorpene/P-75I...eventhough other missiles like Harpoon, Klub & Exocet seem to have been already selected for these SSKs.
5) What about the LRCM? DRDO has been completely silent about it...are these supposed specs correct? : 600km range and Mach 2.6 speed, RAMJET propulsion, air-launched & visually similar to ASMP-A?
6) The IAC-1 seems to have received some much-needed injection of funds within the new budget...will this be good or still not significant enough?
7) With reference to what you said to BHASWAR above, (32 VLS in ready to fire and 32 reloads), so P-15A will have a total of 64 Barak-2 SAMs? I have never seen VLS cells being reloaded out on the sea...is the Navy equipped to do this? Does it require any special onboard equipment (I don't think any other IN ship has this type of provision).
Thanks in advance!
HI Prasun
The Brahmos mini missile seems to have the same range and warhead capacity and speed of the bigger one?. how is this possible .
VMT Prasun Da,
The only way the Kolkata can carry 32 Barak-8 rounds in a ready to launch config is IF all the 32 cells are carrying one Barak-8 round each, IF that is the case then how will the Barak-1 rounds be accommodated?
Perhaps the resolution of the available pics is not sufficient for spotting smaller details like separate cells for the Barak-1 over and above the 16+32 cells, but so far I cannot spot any.
IF the 32 cells accommodate both the Barak-8 and Barak-1 then how many Barak-8s is the ship carrying in a ready to launch config?
VMT for d answers Prasun Da. Thanks for clarifying all the related details.
Also,
There seems to be no definitive information regarding the armaments and the air defense munitions of the Kamorta beyond the wikipedia drivel.
Apparently, according to wiki the Kamorta carries 2*8 "Barak SAMs", which Barak round is not mentioned, the page on the lead ship INS Kamorta claims that it even carries 8 3M54 Klub missiles, how this is possible I can't grasp?
Even more telling is the fact that we apparently have a "Dedicated ASW ship" which does not have a towed sonar array of any kind so far, is the IN trying to state that our projected enemies are so ill equipped?
Furthermore one doesn't even know when the Kolkata will FINALLY get the Baraks, as in the definitive date.
One thing is for sure, even when we finally get to our envisioned destination we find out that we've pretty much dropped half our valuables on the way.
The icing of course will be when the Scorpenes come in without their torps.
Apologies for the repeated questions,
You had stated some time back that we may opt for integrated masts (Thales i-MAST?)on future ships (both the 15B and the 17A?), if so, the Thales page states that the i-MAST can house all the radars a ship may need, presumably including the volume search radar but it states that in said configuration "The radars in the Integrated Mast are non-rotating, four-faced active phased array radars, which in itself is a major performance enhancement. As the four faces operate simultaneously", if that is so then won't a rotating volume search radar (like the RAN-40L, which is presumably what the IN wants as a standard fit on its principle combatants)have to be modified to said "four faced" configuration so as to be integrated on to the i-MAST?
Also are we actually opting for something that revolutionary(in relative terms)? Also, please tell me that the NDB had some foresight in terms of the absolute number of munitions and SAMs carried in a ready to launch config when they got down to designing the 15Bs or will we end up with the same carrying capacity as the the 15As?
Prasunda,
the available pictures of INS Kolkata does show a pretty good ship, but not much punch as expected i guess. With more than 6500 tons it is a big destroyer and what takes up the entire volume. Why limiting the number of SAMs to 32. As you mentioned earlier, in saturation type attacks this would be certainly a big limitation. As some one already asked is it possible to reload the missiles at sea. I thought it is done by replenishment ships at sea if at all.
Sreenivas R
To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: 1) No, not at all. The capital account of the interim defence budget was left unused by the UPA-2 govt & therefore no major procurement orders could be placed in the first quarter. There’s sufficient funds available for capital spending & the Rs.5,000 crores is over & above what’s already available for spending in the following months. 2) There are no thermonuclear weapons in the operational inventory, only boosted fission weapons that are scalable from 20kT all the way up to 150kT & even 500kT. 3) They already have been since the previous decade.
To RAD: Yes, it has a flight trajectory similar to the Hellfire, i.e. gaining altitude & then embarking upon a slanting descent. The challenge is not about incorporating such a flight trajectory on a BVRAAM, but about the off-boresight targetting envelopes of MMRs. Only AESA-based MMRs capable of large-volume scan can be up to the task of providing effective fire-control cues. AEW & CS will typically be at least 200km away from hostile combat aircraft & will therefore remain untouched since even the AESA-MMRs of combat aircraft can’t provide constant target illumination out to such distances. IMI did not deny TCS to India. It was A K Antony who denied it by blacklisting IMI. India no longer requires Py-standard codes from Russia’s Glonass-K GPS network since the IRNSS constellation is now taking shape with substantial technological help from France. All existing Smerch-M rockets used by the IA are unguided. BrahMos-Mini was made smaller by removing the extra fuel tanks from the 290km-range BrahMos-1 Block-1/2, which originally had been designed to have a range of 550km.
To WHO CARES: The DRDO’s annual R & D allocations were reduced by 20% during the past two years by the UPA-2 govt. Therefore, in real terms, this year’s hike is only 30%.
To GESSLER: 1) Yes. 2) The Rustom-2’s airframe as shown at DEFEXPO 2014 looks quite delicate & I’m sure its wings could do with some redesign. This becomes all the more evident when one compares the Rustom-2’s airframe with that of the Hermes 900 or Heron-1. SAR payload is nor the same as the SV-2004 naval surface search radar developed for the Dhruv N-ALH. 3) That project has been shelved. The IAF & ARC instead have both decided to standardise on the EL/M-2060P system. 4) The speed increase applies to only BrahMos-Mini. BrahMos-1 will continue to have Mach 2.8 max speed. For SSKs, the only viable ASCM option remains one that can be launched from standard torpedo tubes, such as 3M54E, Harpoon & SM-39. Usage a vertically-launched ASCM will involve the addition of a plug-in module that will have to be inserted within a SSK’s existing hull design, which is theoretically possible, but practically no one in the world has demonstrated it so far with any measure of success. Consequently, supersonic ASCMs that are vertically launched are best suited only for SSGNs or SSBNs converted to SSGNs, since only such vessels are designed from the outset for launching vertically launched missiles. 5) Without the supersonic air-launched LRCM, India’s strategic triad will remain incomplete. Therefore, service-induction of such a LRCM is a strategic inevitability. 6) This will be more than enough for the vessel’s superstructure fabrication process to be completed. 7) Yes, 64 Barak-2 LR-SAMs on-board. Cannister-encased vertically-launched missiles held internally in storage can easily be brought to ready-to-fire position once the empty cannisters are removed while at-sea. For this, the heavy fleet replenishment vessels (which also serve as refuelling tankers) have purpose-built on-board cranes to assist such reloadings. On board aircraft carriers like INS Vikramaditya & IAC-1, such cranes are available as well.
To BHASWAR: P-15A & P-15B DDGs have only Barak-2 LR-SAMs on board. There are no Barak-1s at all. P-28 ASW corvette was originally meant to carry Barak-1s for close-in air-defence & I was the first one to highlight them way back in 2008 (see: ). Now, the plan is for installing SR-SAMs on board since A K Antony had barred additional imports of Barak-1s. None of the P-28 ASW corvettes will have any ASCMs on-board. There are no towed-array sonars or even low-frequency dunking sonars or even NMRHs (almost all Ka-28PLs & Sea King Mk42Bs have reached the end of their TTSLs even after extensions) for any existing IN FFGs or DDGs. Only the first three Project 1135.6 FFGs & the three P-15 DDGs have so far been cleared to accept active low-frequency towed-array sonars, for which ATLAS Elektronik’s ACTAS system has been selected, but contract signature as still not taken place. P-15B DDGs & P-17A FFGs will host the same type of masts found on the P-15A DDGs, i.e. not exactly integrated masts. P-15B DDG’s on-board armaments capacity will be identical to that of the P-15A DDG, since the P-15B’s design will be almost identical to that of the P-15A DDG, the exception being a new-generation air-search radar like the RAN-70L instead of the LW-08, PROVIDED A K Antony’s blacklisting of Finmeccanica is revisited.
To GESSLER: 1) Yes. 2) The Rustom-2’s airframe as shown at DEFEXPO 2014 looks quite delicate & I’m sure its wings could do with some redesign. This becomes all the more evident when one compares the Rustom-2’s airframe with that of the Hermes 900 or Heron-1. SAR payload is nor the same as the SV-2004 naval surface search radar developed for the Dhruv N-ALH. 3) That project has been shelved. The IAF & ARC instead have both decided to standardise on the EL/M-2060P system. 4) The speed increase applies to only BrahMos-Mini. BrahMos-1 will continue to have Mach 2.8 max speed. For SSKs, the only viable ASCM option remains one that can be launched from standard torpedo tubes, such as 3M54E, Harpoon & SM-39. Usage a vertically-launched ASCM will involve the addition of a plug-in module that will have to be inserted within a SSK’s existing hull design, which is theoretically possible, but practically no one in the world has demonstrated it so far with any measure of success. Consequently, supersonic ASCMs that are vertically launched are best suited only for SSGNs or SSBNs converted to SSGNs, since only such vessels are designed from the outset for launching vertically launched missiles. 5) Without the supersonic air-launched LRCM, India’s strategic triad will remain incomplete. Therefore, service-induction of such a LRCM is a strategic inevitability. 6) This will be more than enough for the vessel’s superstructure fabrication process to be completed. 7) Yes, 64 Barak-2 LR-SAMs on-board. Cannister-encased vertically-launched missiles held internally in storage can easily be brought to ready-to-fire position once the empty cannisters are removed while at-sea. For this, the heavy fleet replenishment vessels (which also serve as refuelling tankers) have purpose-built on-board cranes to assist such reloadings. On board aircraft carriers like INS Vikramaditya & IAC-1, such cranes are available as well.
To BHASWAR: P-15A & P-15B DDGs have only Barak-2 LR-SAMs on board. There are no Barak-1s at all. P-28 ASW corvette was originally meant to carry Barak-1s for close-in air-defence & I was the first one to highlight them way back in 2008 (see: ). Now, the plan is for installing SR-SAMs on board since A K Antony had barred additional imports of Barak-1s. None of the P-28 ASW corvettes will have any ASCMs on-board. There are no towed-array sonars or even low-frequency dunking sonars or even NMRHs (almost all Ka-28PLs & Sea King Mk42Bs have reached the end of their TTSLs even after extensions) for any existing IN FFGs or DDGs. Only the first three Project 1135.6 FFGs & the three P-15 DDGs have so far been cleared to accept active low-frequency towed-array sonars, for which ATLAS Elektronik’s ACTAS system has been selected, but contract signature as still not taken place. P-15B DDGs & P-17A FFGs will host the same type of masts found on the P-15A DDGs, i.e. not exactly integrated masts. P-15B DDG’s on-board armaments capacity will be identical to that of the P-15A DDG, since the P-15B’s design will be almost identical to that of the P-15A DDG, the exception being a new-generation air-search radar like the RAN-70L instead of the LW-08, PROVIDED A K Antony’s blacklisting of Finmeccanica is revisited.
To RD: I can only hope that imported options for the LUH/LOH are not considered at all. Let the HAL-designed LUH/LOH take shape, even if a bit slower than anticipated earlier. Existing SA.315B Lamas/Cheetahs of the IA & IAF can always be upgraded to the Cheetal configuration. All that HAL has to do is buy the IPRs of the ‘Series 85’ main rotor blades for high-altitude cruise from Eurocopter & manufacture them within India. I’m flabbergasted by the fact that HAL never thought it fit to do so, since the Cheetals will easily be required to be in service for at least another 8 years, as the new-generation LUH/LOH, irregardless of whether they’re imported or homegrown, won’t all be delivered overnight, bit in progressive tranches. And even after the Cheetals are eventually replaced by new-generation LUHs/LOHs, it does not mean that they will become useless, since they can easily be reassigned to CAPFs like the BSF & ITBP to serve for at least another decade. Blame for this state of affairs must be assigned to the A K Antony-led MoD for failing to visualise the future reqmts juxtaposed against operational timeframes, due to which neither the IA nor the IAF were able to formalise their total orders for the Cheetal, & consequently HAL’s corporate/financial planners were unable to draw up viable plans for a comprehensive Cheetal upgrade package. If only A K Antony had firmly ruled in favour of inducting only the homegrown LUHs/LOHs & had at the outset totally rejected the option of going in for a mixed fleet (imported & homegrown) of such helicopters, would it have compelled the IA, IAF & HAL to collectively agree on the Cheetal’s deep upgrade option by 2007 itself & by now there would have been no shortages. This is exactly what happens when one has a RM who isn’t interested in managing his ministry, who is bereft of strategic visioning, & who has no inkling about the deep linkages between a military-industrial complex & force modernisation.
Prasunda,
HAL had promised to deliver LCA to IAF this year by June. Now July is going to end soon and I haven't heard about any aircraft delivery.
Is this how they are going to make Indian citizens believe them? Any news on their status?
So, the ONLY difference between the 15As and the 15Bs will be the volume search radar, why in ALL THE NINE HELLS are we then adorning the to be fabricated ships with a new designation? This, THIS, is supposed to compete with something like the Type-45 in terms of performance, why not, I guess it could if our enemies were perpetually high on shrooms.
This is supposed to be India's bid towards a truly blue water navy when there are European frigates which are far more heavily armed AND better defended not to mention anything of other destroyers.
We would have been better served with building something akin to the Alvaro de Bazan than this.
To BHASWAR: Here’s the weblink on P-28 ASW corvette:
http://trishulgroup.blogspot.in/2008/11/project-28-asw-corvette-detailed.html
INS Kamorta’s keel was laid on November 20, 2006 and the vessel was launched on April 19, 2010—a delay of two years. Fitting-out was completed only in mid-2013—a delay of 2 years. Commissioning is due at Vizag on August 23, 2014.
The designation P-15B denotes only the 2nd tranche of deliveries. Had it been an all-new design, then by now it would still be on the drawing boards! Ideally, seven P-15A DDGs ought to have been ordered in one go, & the same should have been the case with the P-17 FFGs as well. With the last 3 P-17 FFGs being built to P-17A standard. The global rule-of-the-thumb calls for the shipyards continuously rolling out surface combatants of all types without any interval. India, it appears, is the global exception to this rule. Consequently, shipyard modernisation also falls prey to this mindset & therefore fails to keep up with emerging trends. Most importantly, skilled human resources disappear, as was the case when it was decided in the late 1990s to stop making additional Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs. Today, MDL is re-learning everything thanks to the Scorpene SSK procurement programme, & after a gap of a few more years will re-re-learn to make a brand-new imported SSK thanks to the P-75I project. Then there’d the case of effort duplication: the IN should have standardised on a single NOPV design & then carved out the fabrication effort to shipyards like GSL & Pipavav. Instead, two totally different NOPV designs have been adopted—one from GSL & another from Alion of Canada by Pipavav. With some foresight, even the IAC-1 project could have been accelerated in the previous decade & orders for two new-generation vessels ought to have been placed, instead of spending a helluva lot more on acquiring an INS Vikramaditya powered by vintage steam turbines. What this proves is that the country’s decision-makers have no idea whatsoever of what constitutes a military-industrial complex, why is it reqd, how to sustain it & make it grow, & what is its eventual contribution to the country’s GDP.
To JAIDEV: It’s not just about the aircraft deliveries. What should keep pace with such deliveries are the 6 flight manuals, 35 MRO manuals, customised GPUs, plus all the squadron-level & 2nd-line MRO hardware like jigs, toolings & ATEs. Without all these mandatory accessories, no aircraft can take to the air even though they may have been delivered on time.
To BHASWAR: Forget the shipbuilding arena, & just look at how long it has taken the MoD to graduate from Phase-1 to Phase-2 of Project Seabird at Karwar! Or after how long the ICGS secured approval for setting up its first training academy in 2013 even though the ICGS has been in existence since 1978.
To SREENIVAS R: It looks long because it uses both diesel engines & gas turbines for propulsion. Ideally, the P-15A DDG’s design should have called for an all-gas turbine propulsion system. The 16 BrahMos-1s & 64 Barak-2s pack together quite a powerful punch. What cannot be seen amidships are the two twin torpedo tube launchers from L & T. The Varunastra torpedo is supposed to go on board, but it’s development has been stymied by the absence of a deep-water instrumented underwater test range. Instead, all test-launches were carried out in the shallow Tungabhadra River, which cannot replicate the conditions prevailing in the high seas. Countering saturation attacks by ASCMs of any type won’t be a problem since such DDGs in wartime will form part of battle groups, i.e. they won’t be cruising all alone, but would be accompanied by similar DDGs as well as FFGs. Therefore, total collective availability of the number of SAMs would be very high.
VMT for the answers, Prasun. About this part :
"For this, the heavy fleet replenishment vessels (which also serve as refuelling tankers) have purpose-built on-board cranes to assist such reloadings."
So does this mean P-15As cannot remove the spent canisters and reload the 32 missiles stashed in canisters unless actively supported by a Fleet replenishment vessel while out at sea?
BTW, is there any timeline for the LRCM?
To GESSLER: That's correct. Fleet replenishment vessels will always accompany any IN battle group.
Actual R & D effort on the supersonic LRCM will get underway after the Nirbhay cruise missile is fully developed & made ready for series-production.
It seems unlikely that the G3OM could receive/process signals from IRNSS. As of today, there is only one IRNSS satellite with it's signal in space qualified. IRNSS B is not yet qualified, let alone the others that are not even launched. What is your basis for claiming IRNSS in G3OM?
Thanks,
USAK
Dear Prasunji,
India has asked UNMoGIP to vacate bungalow. Is it just on off action or do you think Modi Govt. is steering the J&K issue towards some new direction.
Thanks & Regards
To USAK: Wasn't me who claimed anything about G3OM's capabilities. The entity who had claimed it & had boasted about's G3OM's ability to receive signals from any GPS satellite had written this report:
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/Desi-G3OM-Makes-BrahMos-Smarter/2014/07/09/article2320976.ece
You ought to ask him what's the use of receiving CA-standard signals from Navstar or Glonass when such signals are not used by anyone else for MILSPEC precise navigation (using Py-standard code)--either for en-route or terminal-phase.
To PAWAN: During the NaMo-Nawaz Sharif meeting on May 27, 2014 it was agreed that the issue of J & K would be elevated to a higher status for eventual resolution (based on a formula originally conceived in 1964 & what later on became popular as Musharraf’s 4-point formula), with both sides appointing special cabinet-level representatives as interlocutors, similar to what China & India have done for resolving the LAC issue. Nawaz Sharif knew way back in 1997 that neither could Pakistan wrest J & K by force nor would India give away J & K. Therefore, an out-of-the-box solution was the only way forward, which every decision-maker in India, Pakistan, the US & China knows only too well. That’s the reason why Nawaz Sharif is anxious to explore new paradigms along with Namo that would give a face-saving formula to both countries for permanently resolving the J & K issue. And that’s the reason why Nawaz Sharif has packed his Cabinet with Punjabi ministers who all hail from Kashmir & that’s also the reason why his relations with Pakistan’s military establishment are quite tenuous at the moment. However, since both the US & China too have backed the NaMo-Sharif parleys that seek a permanent resolution within a defined timeframe to this long-festering issue, the PA is not being ouvertly hostile to such parleys & that’s the reason why the number of incidents along the LoC have gradually declined since the beginning of this year.
Thank you for your reply. Agree with you that G3OM is unlikely to have been used in the missile, and your analysis of the express report.
However, you made a comment in your reply to Biswajit that G3OM is a combination of Navstar, GLONASS and IRNSS. What's your reasoning for this deduction (that IRNSS is part of G3OM)?
Thanks,
USAK
Prasunda,
I remember reading an article which said we are going to collaborate with a CIS state which has torpedo ranges (may be around 2010 or so the article came) in a lake, i am sorry i cant remember the details. Did it not materialize?
Sreenivas. R
To USAK: Not my deduction, but a fact as spelled out by ISRO. The IRNSS will like its counterparts transmit signals in both CA & Py standards of accuracy, depending on who the users of such data are. Hence, SOCs containing G3OM & meant for civilian navigation purposes will be able to receive CA-standard updates from Navstar, Glonass & IRNSS plus the SBAS, while military hardware like PGMs will have on-board SOCs that will have access to only Py-standard updates from IRNSS.
To SREENIVAS R: Nothing came of it, since a freshwater lake can’t obviously replicate the conditions in the high seas with high levels of salinity.
Indian bureaucracy, totally devoid of military knowledge think like "Jim " in American Pie I - that the "third base "feels like a warm pie. Therefore like Jim they use objects far and remote from reality to apparently test out the efficacy of new systems! fresh water lake and muddy river to replicate high seas? Why don't they use their Commode systems to try out a depth charge!
what a shame we have to implement the Musharraf’s 4-point formula , which virtually says J&K is not part of India. rather India should try to get back POK (with force)as Indian parliament had passed a resolution to do so during Vajpayee time. all these proves Indian leadership is really spineless and incompetent.bunch of morons should learn from Pak how to achieve good result from weak position.
all the talk of PAK going to disintegrate is just hogwash . the fact is India is on the path to disintegrate.
hi Prasun
sad to hear that the damage done by St Antony to this country is so immense, regarding IMI his beta is going to fight the war!?we need modi to be pragmatic and redo the damage by undoing all the black listing in the interest of the nation.
france helping india on the IRNSS?
I thought the only imported part in the irnss was the atomic clock , in what area have they helped us ?As you said that only AESA radar can give FCS solution to long range missiles in a top attack scenario , i t makes sense to go in for the ks-172 missile and integrate it into the super sukhoi, and bang we have a awacs killer. What are the other optins of taking out a awacs on patrol?.
Does it make sense to make a 550 km Brahmos, if the design was originally meant for 550 km ?is it possible to make it by ourselves, are the russians so strict on the MCTR.
Prasun Da have a look at it idrw.org/?p=40178
Do u think ISIS ideology getting into India?
idrw.org/?p=40200
So we have hit a dead-end. Now will govt. go for the ST Kinetics-Pegasus or not?
Thnks in advance.
Hi Prasun, is it possible to implement on-board reloading cranes (placed within the corner-edge VLS cell of each block) on P-15A DDGs? Such as the ones on Arleigh Burke or Ticonderoga-class?
It will reduce the number of ready-to-fire missiles that can be placed in the cells at any one time by a small margin, but definitely it could help the ship be more self-reliant while out at sea, no?
Or do you say they are not needed for IN? Because you had already said during wartime the ships would only move alongside CBGs that also include some support ships...
Check out this video if you have the time, ji -
http://youtu.be/lTqwPDZzCOY
@Prasunda,
then how are advanced torpedoes tested, do Western nations have torpedo ranges in open sea?. If it is the case then why we cannot use Russian help in this matter.
Sreenivas R
@Prasunda,
as an extension to question by Gessler, why IN is not opting for a pure Air defense destroyer. Even with CBG there is only so much a squadron of fighters can defend the fleet and almost nil with missile defense. As for now IN may not operate too far away from the safety of our shores or close to enemy shores to have to face such barrage of missiles. But in future, we may face such situations. Do you think the air defense cover in our CBG is sufficient. Of course the main threat still will be lurking submarines, which till a foreseeable future we will remain handicapped.
Prasun Da,
There seems to be space being wasted between the primary munitions cells (for the AShMs) and the Barak-8 cells, I guess this is because of the difference in cell modules, would an universal VLS module fix this problem and perhaps provide better carrying capacity for future ships?
How difficult can it POSSIBLY be to develop a universal VLS module, that way we save space, quad or double pack some of the SAMs?
Furthermore, at least there will be tangible upgrades on the 17A frigates in comparison to the Shivaliks right? Please tell me that at least a proper volume search radar like the RAN-40L or SMART-L will be used? Most of the frigates in Europe, from the De Zeven Provincien class to the Iver Huitfeldt class boast of far better air defence sensors and munitions, hell the aforementioned frigates are even better than the Kolkata class destroyer in terms of air defence by dint of the SMART-L, SM-2 3A (32 rounds), ESSM (24/32 rounds) and APAR (although we have the MF-STAR to answer for the APAR) combo.
From the above, we can at least glean that if the 17A continues to stay stagnant with the Shivalik's munitions/SAM and sensor profile then at best we will be splashing in the water at the shallow end of the pool with the children. I can't dare to hope that the 17A will boast of a 4*8 cells combo for the Barak-8 without a reduction in the 8 AShMs and the Barak-1s, is that too far off from the realm of possibility?
The NDB and IN need to really settle for the COGAG as the sole means of propulsion and utilize the real estate on the ships more effectively.
On the topic of the towed sonar, is it an issue of us not being able to develop one or not being able to procure one sans charges of corruption, OR an actual problem in the platforms themselves? IF its not the latter then can anything be done, more importantly IS ANYTHING BEING DONE, to solve this problem? Because, your statement "Only the first three Project 1135.6 FFGs & the three P-15 DDGs have so far been cleared to accept active low-frequency towed-array sonars" was disturbing, is there some issue with retrofitting the sonars on to the platforms themselves?
Otherwise short of the Talwars (which I believe you've stated to be ready for the ACTAS)none of our other ships will be able to provide proper ASW cover for our CBG against Pakistani AIP Agostas, no?
Lastly, have we decided to NOT equip the Kamortas with towed arrays at all, in the sense that we WON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT LEAVE ALONE TRY?
Prasun Da,
Also,
Speaking of Dr. Avinash Ji's lecture, he mentioned the severe lack of infrastructure and equipped areas demarcated for testing, on that note, what happened to the Chitradurga facility which the NGT had deigned fit to halt for some reason? The current government was quick enough with Project Seabird, have they given any thought to the former?
Also, I can't quite recall all the facilities that were to present at the Chitradurga range, could you perhaps elucidate once again?
Prasun, just wanted to add another query based on an online conversation with someone else, if FRVs are to be accompanying IN Battle groups at all times (alongside P-15As), and P-15A invariably needs the support of FRVs for reloading the cells, then the FRV might as well carry the additional missiles itself, right?
Why put the additional 32 reload rounds on P-15A if it can't replenish the cells itself?
The P-15A's weapons & defence suite is appearing very sketchy as you dig deeper into the details!
Hi Prasun ,
Already a lot of U.S media channels have been propagating false news about Indians taking away jobs from Americans . And now this backlash over the H-1B visas .
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Backlash-stirs-in-US-against-H-1B-visas/articleshow/37946545.cms
Do you feel that Indians travelling to the U.S for work will still be safe ?
@shiva,
is it not a legitimate action? when shiva sena says mumbai is for marathis, trs and telangana people says hyderabad is not to andhra people? but all these guys apply for green cards and permanent residence across the world?
Prasun Da,
Why do fools end up editing and contributing to wiki, the wiki page on the Barak-8 states that it has both an AESA based seeker and a "multi spectral terminal seeker", when did that happen?
Prasund Da have a look at this.....
idrw.org/?p=40241
I simply do not understand the flight path from Delhi to Brazil..should go through Germany, a kind of triangle.. given for Modi it would be a dedicated plane just for him...y shld India choose to be humiliated like this?? in germany..
@Prasun da
you said to #RAD - ' BrahMos-Mini was made smaller by removing the extra fuel tanks from the 290km-range BrahMos-1 Block-1/2, which originally had been designed to have a range of 550km.' it means Brahmos -1 vblock 1/2 indeed have a undeclared range of 550 km & declared of 300 km
just heard that projects P75I & 6 SSNs will probably clubbed together, a better idea?
as MoD refusing to pay over US$850 for ULH the deal is dead now what to do?
Cant we sell Brahmos Mini to France in return for cut in prices of Rafale?
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
@Prasun,
There is talk that PAF is going to order 4 more ZDK-3's. Apparently they are better than their SAAB's. They have full access to integrate and do whatever they want. How true are these reports?
Prasun Da ,
In one of the posters that you have uploaded the BRAHMOS is shown in a Coastal Defense Role . IIRC , last year the Indian Navy had released a RFI seeking Coastal Missile Defense batteries .
So if the BRAHMOS can be used in a Coastal Defense Role , what’s the need for a foreign Coastal Missile Defense System ?
Thanks ,
Vikram
@Prasun da
I have scoured the internet but saw no reference to missile canisters being stored internally than on replenishment ships.
Are you sure about your source on 32 Barak 8 VLS and 32 Barak 8 canisters on INS Kolkata.
A little information on this will greatly dispel my doubts sir.
hi prasun da
how good is arihant noise level is it stealthy like its compatriots in usa/britan and russia?
the reactor on the arihant is it comparable to american current generation ones
aniz
Hindu paper is churning out articles on Modi and US aspects of his visa and the gujarat incidents..
what happened to hindu? and Y now? with what objectives and by whom?
Sorry for the trouble Prasun da but I'd like to ask another question, in which part of the ship are the missiles stored? I mean is there some kind of a mechanism that pushes the canister into place once you take out the old one, like a rifle round?
To DASHU: It was never Musharraf’s formula. It was first conceived in 1964 & was sanctified in early 1972 when India then decided to make the LoC into a permanent boundary. Unilateral force cannot be used now or in future to secure Gilgit & Baltistan. The only opportunity to take back a chunk of Gilgit & Baltistan was in mid-1999 when India could have done a reverse-Kargil in retaliation. But it was the NDA-1 govt at that time which refused to discuss such an option & instructed the IA & IAF to keep hostilities confined to the LoC.
To RAD: The atomic clock inside any GPS satellite is the very heart of the system. Without it no GPS satellite will function. OEM blacklisting indeed needs to be done away with, since it has never brought about any positive result. As I had predicted long ago, the on-going investigations against AgustaWestland & Finmeccanica by both the Italians & the CBI has failed to throw any light on whether or not illegal means were used to secure the AW-101 contract simply because there were no wrongdoings in the very first place. What A K Antony in fact did by unilaterally cancelling the AW-101 contract was that he showed the IAF in very bad light, as if all the laid-down procedures of the IAF for platform selection were full of holes & could therefore be subverted. This was the greatest mistake of A K Antony, all for the sake of protecting his political party. Honest, therefore, he may well be, but he’s certainly not patriotic nor is he a man of integrity. KS-172-type LRAAMs were never designed for shooting down AEW & CS platforms not can they do so in the absence of long-range target illumination by airborne fire-control systems & radars. Nor does the KS-172 have the type of range reqd for attacking AEW & CS platforms. There’s no way any Indian firm can make any long-range version of BrahMos-1. Nor is it reqd.
To BISWAJIT: Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxhcx02ZAfU
It is not about any ideology, but an idea. And one idea can only be countered by another idea. ST Kinetics’ Pegasus is an unproven system. In reality, there’s no need for heliborne 155mm howitzers. Just improve the border roads infrastructure so that towed or motorised 155mm/52-calibre howitzers can be quickly brought into action.
To GESSLER: Of course it is indeed possible to install such on-board cranes without reducing the complement of VLS missile-cells. FRVs that are primarily meant for transporting fuel cannot carry any explosive materials on-board due to obvious reasons. For reloading the LR-SAMs on P-15A DDGs, all that’s reqd is to take out the used cannisters with a crane. Only after this is done can the loaded cannisters be inserted into the VLS cells internall;y, not externally.
To SREENIVAS R: They’re all tested in littoral waters like the ones in the Caspian Sea, Mediterranean Sea, Adriatic Sea, etc. Russian help isn’t reqd. Such ranges can easily be established with homegrown human resource talents & hardware, PROVIDED commonsensical innovations are put into effect.
BHASWAR: There’s no wastage of space at all. It may look so externally, but internally the volume is used for missile reload canisters. Universal VLS modules have already been designed & fabricated by L & T for BrahMos-1. Nor is there any problem regarding fitment of ATAS hardware on board any IN warship. However, innovation seems to have been forgotten about. Instead of ATAS, a far more simpler & cheaper solution will be to mount a dipping sonar like the LFDS on to a RHIB that can be remotely controlled (like the Protector from ELBIT Systems). Such a RHIB can stay on station for long durations & can cruise either ahead or behind any battle group or task force, thereby providing a decent sanitised area around the warships. Can’t understand why is the DRDO not exploring such obvious & elementary options. All data on Chitraguda range is on a poster uploaded in my DEFEXPO 2014 show report threads.
To SHIVA DOGUPARTI: No immigrant is ever 100% safe in any foreign country.
To VIKRAM GUHA: The BrahMos-1 can easily be used for coastal anti-ship strike missions. An even better option is to go for the MAL-launched BrahMos-Mini. There should not be any need to import any brand-new coastal anti-ship strike system.
By the way, do browse through this: http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/07/2014-07-14-Balance-of-Power.pdf?_ga=1.72517072.2107572491.1405442577
To ANIZ: That will become known only AFTER the conclusion of the vessel’s sea-trials.
To SPECTRIBUTION: Just look at the external space surrounding the VLS cells & compare that with how much volume is consumed internally by each VLS cell. That should give you the answer you seek. There’s an internal electro-hydraulic mechanism for uploading the LR-SAM’s missile-encasing cannisters.
This is very interesting indeed:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/10000-year-old-rock-paintings-depicting-aliens-and-UFOs-found-in-Chhattisgarh/articleshow/38435091.cms
And it also appears that Beijing is indeed showing seriousness at long-last to resolve the LAC demarcation/delineation issue:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/China-invites-Modi-for-Apec-summit-but-rivalry-simmers/articleshow/38430117.cms
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chinas-xi-invites-modi-to-visit-calls-for-early-border-settlement/article6211613.ece?homepage=true&utm_source=Most%20Popular&utm_medium=Homepage&utm_campaign=Widget%20Promo
Let's hope the matter gets resolved in the near future.
hi Prasun '
I think the idea of having a remotely controlled boat with dipping sonar is a fantastic idea. Each ship can have 2 such sonars and thus have a total coverage for a battle group. They can be permanently deployed an active and passive mode.An enemy sub which starts hearing the pings will never dare to come near missile launch range. I think in todays scenario it is more on active sonars .
What was the target in mind when the russians developed the ks-172, a modern version of the phoenix misile.? Why cant the super sukhoi with its aesa radar control the ks-172?
That brings me to the nagging question ,what is the best way to take out a airborne awacs?
Prasun da,
I agree with the spacing thing but regarding an internal loading mechanism, I have never seen it being used on the MK 41 or the Sylver A70 VLS system?
If such examples have existed, can you elaborate?
Thanks
Prasunda,
Why did India remains satisfied with getting only the Presidency of the BRICS Bank? Why didn't they put more efforts into getting the Bank HQ in Delhi? Presidents will come and go but Bank is permanent.
Prasunda,
i have a few question regarding your idea of RHIB based LFDS. When you say LFDS, are you speaking about the DRDO made one or you used it as a generic term. Is DRDO LFDS a matured product, i am asking this because you are quite hard to please, unless the product is of class.
Second question is about the RHIB, is it possible that RHIB can have the endurance required for such screens. Also i guess the RHIBs may not be very suitable in rough weather (which might be same for towed ones too).
third question is that you were actively proposing Ultra low frequency (towed?) sonars. Why you are saying Low Frequency ones will suffice. I was having an impression that ULF and VLF sonars have better detection in that order. Are these devises extremely costly, given that the biggest threat for our battle groups will be surely submarines.
thanks in advance,
Sreenivas R
Prasun, thanks for the previous answers. A new question just popped up -
1) Do you know anything about the Russian Zircon-S hypersonic cruise missile?
Is this missile somehow related to BrahMos-II ?
2) At what altitudes can BrahMos-II possibly sustain ~ Mach 7 speeds? Will it be capable of sea-skimming at hypersonic velocity?
VMT in advance.
Sir,
You've been adamantly stating that the Nawaz Modi meet resulted in a move towards a settlement, a settlement which was endorsed even by the Chinese and the Americans, consequently the PA was under pressure to keep tensions low from their side.
How fitting then that yesterday four of our BSF jawaans were injured by cross LOC firing by the Pakistanis and there were reports of even one casualty on our side.
The PA seems to be doing a sterling job of keeping line with what you've posited, keeping tensions low.
Oh, and this is apparently the 3rd such ceasefire violation in the month of July itself,the first occurring on 1st July itself in Mendhar and the second on 12th July.
That's averaging one ceasefire violation per week.
In fact there have been reportedly 19 violations in April and May put together.
Apologies, but,in light of the above, the following:- " And that’s the reason why Nawaz Sharif has packed his Cabinet with Punjabi ministers who all hail from Kashmir & that’s also the reason why his relations with Pakistan’s military establishment are quite tenuous at the moment. However, since both the US & China too have backed the NaMo-Sharif parleys that seek a permanent resolution within a defined timeframe to this long-festering issue, the PA is not being ouvertly hostile to such parleys & that’s the reason why the number of incidents along the LoC have gradually declined since the beginning of this year." seems laughably incorrect.
Prasun Da have a look at this news
idrw.org/?p=40358
Is this report have any truth?
HI Prasun
why is russia not giving us TOT for the smerch when they keep quite about china reverse engineering the same.Is it so difficult to copy the rocket> Other wise to show them what we can do, is to accelerate the design of pinaka-2 with israel . make our own rocket with irnss capability so that once and for all we dont depend on them.
hi prasun
why are we importing sigma 30 RLG systems for artillery and navigation needs when we make state off the art systems for the agni series of missiles , Surely with our huge demand benefit of lower costs will apply. whats the reason. especially after the 3gom chip which would be enough for land navigation .
Praun ji, another important thing to ask, one which might require some lengthy explation...so reply this bit when you have the time...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2694949/Al-Qaeda-plans-final-jihad-India-Intel-report-points-terror-recruitment-drive-targeting-nations-Muslims.html#ixzz37hnPBOvR
In short, can you explain how you think this will unfold? If Al-Qaeda want's to sneak in forces into India, they will have to do so through Kashmir on the Pakistani side. So I wanted to ask, will this infiltration flare up to a point where IAF will inevitably have to carry out air strikes against Al-Qaeda/other groups camps inside PoK/Azad Kashmir?
Because I don't think Pak will do jackshit to control the infiltration of these groups, at most, they will provide cover fire for these infiltrators.
@Kittu
It is difficult to convince a Pakistani about facts. They live in denial and accept nothing.
I needed more information myself to understand in the internal loading mechanism.
The Russians uses a rotary VLS launcher but this is new.
I just said both P K S and Ajai Shukla have said the same facts, two different people same thing....
Must be some truth in there.
BTW I have every right to ask questions,learning is a continuous process and only fools doubt it.
Thanks PrasunDa
1. So is it not necessary for India to develop a Thermonuclear bomb / H-Bomb ? Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is already larger than that of India's .
2. Since future air combat would be BVR did it make any sense for the IAF to purchase the ASRAAM given the fact that it is at best a WVR missile ?
Another Malaysian airliner goes down. This time perhaps with a buk missile.
@prasun da
1)Are pakistanis having CM 400 AKG Mach 5.5 AScM missile?
2)What is all this fuss about the 32 cell vls reload thing? Can extra vls rounds be stored in the hold of a ship and loaded just like that using a "mechanism" don't you require an inbuilt crane? Can you please elaborate on that?
3)If India has made the TOPSIGHT helmet with Thales - Samtel collaboration, why not use it with Tejas than DASH III helmets?
4)Does Kamorta class use Klub 3M 54E torpedo launched AScM? SIPRI says some were delivered in 2012.
Thanks
Prasun da,
Latest naval Dhruv will have new segmented main rotor manual folding mechanism just like HAL LUH main rotor folding uploaded by you in your blog.
This has been accepted by IN and CG. CG chief has said that this new version will be able to operate from CG ships and can be stored in their hangers.
The folded dimensions are 14.05m by 5.1m for HAL Dhruv utility version and 14.8m by 5.1m for naval Dhruv with nose radar.
Recent 41nos Dhruv order had one naval Dhruv as a test machine in addition to 40nos Dhruvs for IA.
IN if satisfied with current tests at Vishakapatnum will order 25 nos ASW versions of Naval Dhruv in addition to 16 nos mark3 utility versions as given in CAG report of 2010-11.
Main rotor folding of naval Dhruv is no longer an issue as being made out in media.
48 nos asw S70B+ 20nos ASW NMRH+ 25 nos ASW NAVAL DHRUV =93 ASW HELOS can fulfill IN requirement till 2025.
Prasun da,
Latest naval Dhruv will have new segmented main rotor manual folding mechanism just like HAL LUH main rotor folding uploaded by you in your blog.
This has been accepted by IN and CG. CG chief has said that this new version will be able to operate from CG ships and can be stored in their hangers.
The folded dimensions are 14.05m by 5.1m for HAL Dhruv utility version and 14.8m by 5.1m for naval Dhruv with nose radar.
Recent 41nos Dhruv order had one naval Dhruv as a test machine in addition to 40nos Dhruvs for IA.
IN if satisfied with current tests at Vishakapatnum will order 25 nos ASW versions of Naval Dhruv in addition to 16 nos mark3 utility versions as given in CAG report of 2010-11.
Main rotor folding of naval Dhruv is no longer an issue as being made out in media.
48 nos asw S70B+ 20nos ASW NMRH+ 25 nos ASW NAVAL DHRUV =93 ASW HELOS can fulfill IN requirement till 2025.
Prasun Da,
1. What is the range of air launched version of Brahmos-1?
2. Does the range vary with the launch altitude?
3. Why Indian destroyer's vertical launch module doesn't designed like its US or China counterpart so it can carry more ready to launch missile.
4. Again are missiles designed in India according to universal vls like mk.41 vls of US. Arleigh Burke class has 96 cell vls & carry in missles in any combination & in same weight class of Kolkata class.
5. What will be the range of hypersonic brahmos?
6. Can a same brahmos missile work as anti-ship or land attack mode according to need. ie can we modify just before launch? If not is it possible to do?
7. Do DRDO projects needs MOD permission in every step? If yes then why?
8. Now Indian nukes are not ready to launch but in SSBN what will be the policy?
Thanks,
Sudipta
is demchok area under india's control which lays east of chumar ?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ten-key-DRDO-projects-delayed-Arun-Jaitley/articleshow/38609015.cms
lol after this those IOC-1/2 and FOC guys would be looking for hiding place
Dear Sir
Some more BAD news for India particularly IAF
Pakistan ie PAF is looking for
UAE Mirage 2000-9
While India takes forever to finalise its arms purchases
^^^ Sorry Prasun Sir
The above post should read as follows
PAF is looking to buy ALL
the SECOND hand UAE Mirage 2000-9
when they are replaced by
NEW F 16 Block 61 and upgrades to Block 60
Sir,
Can you please throw some light or provide a source which mentions of this reloading mechanism for our P 15A Destroyers?
All the information about the internal volume and VLS measurements checks out. I have scoured the internet for information on this mechanism but to no vail.
Can the general public see some source/diagram/poster/etc that will assuage this uncertainity.
Not that we doubt you sir but this mechanism is a very new thing. Closest I have seen is rotary launcher of Russia.
Hoping to hear from you soon.
Thanks,
Spectribution
sir ,
there are some reports that PM modi's plane was on the same path as the malaysian plane shot down.
can you please tell us about what are safety/security measures n systems aboard PMs aircraft.
can it tell is a missile is approaching it & if yes can it take counter measures ?
is it really so simple to shoot down civil airliners ???
leave aside aircraft carrying heads of Govt.
2) what do you think of delhi elections ?
do you AAP doing anything similar to its last assembly election performance ?
how much do you think it will dent bjp's vote ?
sorry for being off topic
PS - sir , still waiting for your article on BJP's victory , & how it used assymetrical warfare to win.please post it.
& do you really think amit shah is a bad man ?
i personally have a lot of respect for him.
dear prasun da,
thank you for the prompt reply as always. any news on f-insas programme and arjun mark 2
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/In-science-India-invests-far-less-than-China-US-South-Korea/articleshow/38634329.cms
Sir,
One more information piece. I had spoken to the officials at L&T stall at Defence Expo 2014. They said INS Kolkata had 32 Barak 8 missiles as VLS and carried only 16 Barak 8 as reloads.
You are saying it carries 32 Barak 8 missiles as reloads. Which is true?
Any response to the query and those above?
Thanks,
Spectribution
Prasun da,
DAC has cleared 32 ALH mk3 to IN and CG worth Rs 7000Cr as per news reports though I think cost is on higher side and there is a mistake.
Even NH90 cant carry heavy exocet class missile as required by IN and it carries marte er of 310kg weight with 100km range.
Alh can also carry anti ship missle of 400 kg class like NSM of 130 km range.
IN is unrealistic in its NSQR.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a-blueprint-for-the-defence-industry/article6193910.ece?homepage=true
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/19/the-us-navy-has-a-mach-7-cannon-and-raytheon-is-he.aspx
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/sauravjha/2976/65263/new-power-projection-capabilities-sought-for-the-indian-navy-fleet-support-ships.html
An interesting read, Prasun ji. Any comments?
Yes PAF have ordered couple of dozen CM400 AKG. There was even an announcement about it, last year.
Not sure why people think becaue Nawaz has so many kashmiri's in his cabinet is special. Pakistan is clannish. Its all about clans and tribes. Nawaz's kashmirs are not even considered kashmiri by the Kashmiri's even in Pakistan's Kashmir. Because most are lahori/punjabi with kashmiri back ground and not only that, they are from the trading communities. They are not from the traditionally powerful clans or of fighting stock. In fact they are the ones considered cowered's.
Prasun Da ,
Do the C-17 of the IAF carry the AN/AAQ-24 Directional Infrared Counter Measures (DIRCM) system to protect the aircraft from IR missiles ?
If not what kind of countermeasures does it carry ?
Thanks,
VIKRAM
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2014/20140721/main2.htm
Is this a piece of yellow journalism or is there an element of truth in it?
Prasun ji, you have disappeared again. What's cookin' ?
lol, with PSK not in sight, gessler is having hard time in participating in defence.pk site discussions
@ Anon 7:02 P.M
So imagine what might have happened to our "Serial Spammer" friend Subir Bhattacharya .
He is probably going around unemployed.
Interesting Blog
http://captainjohann.blogspot.co.uk/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Shape-up-or-shut-down-Arun-Jaitley-tells-PSUs/articleshow/38886585.cms
Looks like Finance/Defence Min. taking right steps...
Your comments please Prasunda..
Regards,
Hary
@Prasun da
possibly you overlooked my previous questions, so i am adding them with new ones
1. just heard that projects P75I & 6 SSNs will probably clubbed together, a better idea?
2. as MoD refusing to pay over US$850 for ULH the deal is dead now what to do?
3. Cant we sell Brahmos Mini to France in return for cut in prices of Rafale?
4. Just learnt that there are plans to build continuous anti submarine drones, is it a viable project
5. Has the project to build 3 more Talwars in Russia been shelved
6. as per this article It is India inability to demarcate the border in Aksai chin is causing problems and even BDCA signed will not slove any problem, http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/SOU-03-090513.html
your views on this
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
Hi Prasun Sir ,
Please read this article on IDR
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spotlights/factors-affecting-outcome-of-war/
Do you agree with the author ?
Thanks
@Prasunda
Like many of your ardent followers and bloggers, I wish you would get back to blogging regularly ASAP.
Your blogs have always served to educate the masses about teething problems and vexing issues that affect India's National Security.
And it would hence not be very prudent nor welcome if you stay off from blogging for long.
Hoping your comeback happens sooner than later, I pose the following questions:
1)Has the Indian Govt. gone nuts by voting for the UNHRC resolution establishing an independent Commission of Enquiry for Gaza?
It appears even the Modi Sarkar has succumbed to the pressure of 'secularists', and thereby caused embarassment and potential damage to the relations with a strategic ally!
2)Following the recent elevation of Prof.Rao to the ICHR, I'm left quite worried if the Marxist distortions of History could be reversed by a man of such calibre.
It appears the Modi Sarkar is repeating the same mistakes as that of the ABV sarkar when it comes to finding a proper response to Marxist and Secularist distortions of Indian History.
Hello Prasun sir, I have a few questions concerning Indian & neighboring military/strategic issues -
1) Is Rafale deal going to be signed in this fiscal or the next?
2) What is the progress on Tejas Mk-2 development? Has the radar, IRST, EW suite, HMDS etc. been selected ? Have the F414 engines been delivered?
3) How many JF-17s (including all Blocks) will PAF induct?
4) What's happened to PAF's acquisition of FC-20 MRCA? It seems they have cancelled that.
5) Is Pakistan going to get the UAE Mirage 2000-9s after they are retired in UAEAF? What will happen to the Qatari Mirages? Will IAF or PAF get any of these?
6) Any progress on FGFA?
7) Will BrahMos-2 hypersonic ASCM be ready by the time the first P-15B is ready for sea trials?
8) Any chance IRNSS constellation could expand from the present 7 satellites to maybe 14 or so in future?
Thanks in advance.
Have been extremely busy with an on-going seminar on air-defence (http://www.cenjows.in/news_detail.php?nd=58)
Will be back tonight to answer all outstanding queries.
Prasun
The MDL's tender for the reduced scale model of the P-15B class destroyers states that the model to be built shall have the RAWL-02 radar.
Seems like the talks of a new 3D VSR/ASR were incorrect.
Hi Prasun,
Would appreciate your thoughts on this article
http://idrw.org/?p=40636
Best Regards
Raj
Hi Prasun,
What is the status of ISRO's semi cryogenic engine development program?
@Prasun da
3 more questions
7. VLF of IN is set to come up at RR district in Telengana, if the ULF facility will be built on shore in Tamil Nadu (supposedly), why VLF facility is being built away from sea
8. Saab recently acquired TKMS does it help bode well for IN regarding its need for torpedos and AIP
9. as India UNMOGIP to wind up do you expect rise in hostilities from Pak due to it as well as US wind up in Afghanstan
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
@joydeep, #7 above - likely for better security.
This is what PAC have been upto, it looks impressive.
http://vimeo.com/65576468
Hi Prasun Da,
Nice article regarding LLTE & India relations.
VMT
S. Thakur
http://greatgameindia.com/sex-for-secrets-raw-agent-honey-trapped-by-cia-before-rajiv-gandhi-assassination/
@Prasun da
sorry for pestering you
but this looks truly a out of the box solution worth a try, involving IL76, 105 mm guns
http://www.asiantribune.com/node/83864
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
By the time the Rafale arrive, they will be as old as Mig-27 is as on today.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/defence-electronics-needs-an-it-replay-hal-chairman/article6265147.ece?homepage=true
HI Prasunda
A little bored of late of opeing your blogs and not getting ur insights. Hopes all well.
what if enemy attack VLF facilities. how can we then communicate. just attack on VLF centre can't be considered as nuclear attack or eminent attack
@to everybody
please try and understand that Prasun K Sengupta ay be a voracious reader and avid writer but in the end he is human and has lot of other work to do. he is not a computer or robot
please have patience 'sabar ka phal mitha hota hai'
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
If Prasun Ji is busy, that is okay.
At least, he can set expectations on the frequency of his updates: will it be alternate days, weekly, etc so that we do not have to check often and find nothing.
Thank you.
Prasunda,
Hope you are doing well and respond in your suitable time.
Recently, a news item mentioned that HAL was progressively localising components of GE LM-2500 marine turbine engine.
I was wondering if you could put some light on this? What parts are being manufactured in India and how much still comes from GE US?
I remember INS Vikrant (new) was delayed because Obama government had put some restrictions on LM-2500 engine supply. Wondering whether if there is a repeat of this, will HAL still be able to produce this engine?
Thanks and best of luck in whatever you are busy in.
R
Mr. Sengupta, while relinquishing office the last COAS aid that India gave a befitting response to the Pakistanis for the beheading incident.
Can you please tell what he meant by a befitting response? Were some covert operations conducted to avenge the instance?
Thanks.
http://china-defense.blogspot.in/2014/07/build-your-own-conspiracy-theory-of-day.html
To THINK TANK: I have similar photos of the late Dr Gerry Bull of SRI at NORINCO’s military-industrial facilities near Inner Mongolia in the mid-1980s when Dr Bull was involved in upgunning the NORINCO-built M-46 130mm towed howitzers into 155mm/45-cal howitzers.
To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: HAL is only progressively localising the product-support practices, & not any materials or components. It is impossible to localise the production of components for such a small number of marine-industrial gas-turbines that are in service. INS Vikrant was NEVER delayed due to the LM-2500s. The Project 17 FFGs’ commissioning schedules were delayed NOT BY any US citizen (Obama included), but by HAL’s inability to file the paperwork on time with the US State Dept.
To PAWAN: VLF comms facilities can always be attacked by LACMs or even by land-based saboteurs. There’s always a standby system, i.e. SATCOM.
To Mr.RA 9: Nope, that will not be the case. The IAF is now resigned to the fact that come what may, the R%afales will be inducted into service first. It is the FGFA whose induction schedule will be delayed by at least a decade. Do watch these for further insights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9jCpOqAlvN8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fhtb19cjvVw#t=0
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: The anonymous writer of that ridiculous story can’t even recollect that
During the Depsang incident, Salman Khurshid, not S M Krishna, was India’s Foreign Minister. And the less said about the rest of the contents, the better.
To S THAKUR: And now, to add to that, hypocrites like K Natwar Singh have added fuel to the fire through his outrageous autobiography. Where exactly do such senile people get off their high horses is anyone’s guess.
To RA12: At best it resembles a cottage industry-like facility of the 1960s.
To RAJ: You will find the answers here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9jCpOqAlvN8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fhtb19cjvVw#t=0
To BHASWAR: During a warship’s construction period, the NSQR is subject to frequent changes & consequently the equipment fit also changes. Don’t be surprised by what the P-15B DDG will eventually morphe into.
To SARATH KUMAR: 1) Most probably next fiscal year. 2) Tejas Mk2 is still on the drawing boards. Almost the entire fuselage is being redesigned & re-engineered. EW suit & HMDS were already pre-selected. F414 turbofans will start arriving next year. 3) Depends on that country’s fiscal situation, which is quite bad in any case. Deploying 300,000 soldiers for low-intensity conflict along its western borders for the next 6 years will not leave any extra money for force modernisation. 4) Not cancelled, but deferred. 5) Most unlikely. The Arabs want a monetary transaction & will never give away such hardware for free, while Pakistan is bound by strict IMF regulations that prevent Pakistan from buying such hardware. 6) Delayed, & is likely to surface only in the following decade. 7) No way. 8) What for? Unlike China which has global ambitions & it has therefore conceptualized a global constellation for its Beidou GPS navigation satellites, India has only regional ambitions.
To ABS: As K Natwar Singh has recently admitted on TV, India has after 1947 never embraced realpolitik as her core stratagem. That’s why India on one hand ignored Tibet’s plea for preserving its independence & sovereignty, while those same principles were not applied to the Palestinian issue. And that’s why the nautanki/tamasha gets played about celebrating the anniversary of Panchsheel when this agreement expired in June 1962. India still continues to waste resources & time on coming up with this:
http://www.mea.gov.in/Uploads/PublicationDocs/191_panchsheel.pdf
To ABS & BHASWAR: Just look at the following:
SAS’ OP Nimrod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI3HY7g0MDU
GIGN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9tOqUttMyU
GSG-9 Documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nobIwkgapU8&list=PLMGttrGPQIpOs-vcYnqpyLVl1YvUZolzL
Now ask yourselves these:
1) Why does the GIGN & GSG-9 & the SAS believe in maintaining a high tempo of operations, instead of training everyday insides their barracks like the NSG of India does?
2) Is it viable for the NSG to be used only once every decade for actual anti-terrorist operations?
3) Unlike the SAS or GIGN or GSG-9 which are sea/air/land-capable, why is the NSG reduced to being just an outfit meant for overland operations? What happens if a boat is hijacked over riverine terrain? What happens if a container carrier gets taken over by terrorists while it is docked in a port?
Will answer all other remaining queries later today, rest assured.
Sir, are you saying FGFA will only be inducted by 2030 ?
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