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Sunday, August 3, 2014

Blindly Muddling Through With Eyes Wide Open

This, at best sums up the approach taken by those ‘desi’ journalists who, until recently, had vociferously alleged that the deal to acquire 12 AW-101 VVIP transportation helicopters from UK-based AgustaWestland was a tainted one. And the reason these ‘desi’ nitwits went totally off course was that instead of concluding that 2 + 2 = 4, they ASSUMED—based only on circumstantial evidence—that 2 + 2 = 22. No wonder they are all now in collective shock after an Italian court decided that all charges of international corruption would be dropped against Finmeccanica (the Italy-based holding company of AgustaWestland), and Finmeccanica would only pay a “negligible fine” for falsifying invoices, but this was “not in any way an admission of any wrongdoing or liability” by Finmeccanica. What this means I will explain later, but let us now examine how the ‘desi’ journalists missed the woods for the trees by, first, misinterpreting facts, and second, by jumping to untenable conclusions. 
The investigation into charges of international corruption involving Finmeccanica commenced in 2011 after an open succession war between Francesco Guarguanglini, who was then heading Finmeccanica, and his successor, Giuseppe Orsi, who in 2011 was Finmeccanica’s Chairman and CEO. In late 2012, when Silvio Berlusconis coalition government, which had as coalition partners parties such as the far-right Lega Nord (which was alleged to have received financial kickbacks), was replaced by one led by technocrat Mario Monti, this reportedly prompted Lorenzo Borgogni, a former top employee of Finmeccanica and an Orsi-baiter, to blow the whistle on the Rs 3,546 crore (Euro 556 million, or US$757 million) AW-101 contract, which had been inked on February 8, 2010. Borgogni told prosecutors in a detailed statement that kickbacks were allegedly paid by AgustaWestland for securing the AW-101 contract through the use of middlemen and that the total amount of financial kickbacks came up to Euro 51 million (Rs.362 crore). Borgogni detailed how the money was paid through a network of middlemen and consultants like Guido Ralph Haschke, Carlo Gerosa and Christian Michel, with the main allegation being that at least Euro 10 million was funnelled back to Italy and paid to the Lega Nord political party in return for its support to Orsi’s bid to become Chairman and CEO of Finmeccanica. In his statement, Borgogni said that Finmeccanica had decided to divert Euro 21 million for commissions meant for Europe-based consultants, knowing how risky it was to hire Indian citizens as agents for securing Indian military procurement contracts.
Borgogni had alleged that the Euro 21 million was generated through inflated bills and bogus engineering contracts, with regular monthly tranches of payments being made between 2007 and 2011. These payments averaged to a Euro 55,0000 per month towards the end. Guido Haschke, on the other hand, had claimed in his confession that he received a kickback of Euro 20 million of which Euro 400,000 was paid off to the brothers Juli ‘Jolly’ Tyagi, Docsa Tyagi and Sandeep (Julie) Tyagi, who in turn allegedly transferred a certain amount of money, not yet quantified, to ACM S P Tyagi, CAS of the Indian Air Force (IAF) from 2004 to 2007. In addition, another Euro 11.6 million came through inflated bills and invoices that were in the guise of engineering contracts placed with IDS Infotech, a Tunisia based engineering consultancy. While Guido Ralph Haschke is the CEO and partner of GADIT SA of Lugano and Tunis-based GORDIAN SERVICES SARL, Carlo Gerosa is Haschke's partner in the above companies (as well as in Chandigarh-based Aeromatrix, an engineering and IT outsourcing company), and British citizen Christian Michel is the owner of London-based Global Service Trade Commerce, and of Dubai-based Global Service FZE. Allegedly, Finmeccanica first paid the sum of Euro 400,000 to Haschke and Gerosa, through a consultancy contract between AgustaWestland and Gordian Services SARL. Later, these two signed engineering contracts with companies IDS Infotech India and IDS Infotech Tunisia, allegedly to cover up the payments of money to pay unidentified Govt of India officials. Christian Michel allegedly received Euro 30 million for supporting the corruptive activities meant to bag the AW-101 order. The first kickbacks, however, were allegedly made as early as on December 6, 2005, with Haschke receiving Euro 100,000 through an India Services Agreement vide letter AG/ME/05/188 by AgustaWestland to Haschke's Gordian Services SARL. This agreement was renewed for the next three years through more follow-on agreements, including one marked AG/ME/06/235 and sent by AgustaWestland.
AgustaWestland’s contract with IDS Infotech had promised a payment of 5% of the value of the AW-101 deal. The contract was signed on January 1, 2007 and said that AgustaWestland will utilise its engineering activity and consultancy if it secures the AW-101 order. It also said that AgustaWestland would avail the engineering, design and software services of IDS once the sale & purchase agreement is signed by AgustaWestland and the Govt of India. Payment records have shown that AgustaWestland made regular transfers to IDS Infotech between 2007 and 2011 through Tunisia, totalling over Euro 21 million, which is just under 5% of the total value of the AW-101 contract.
One contract (known as post-contract services agreement) worth Euro 6 million (paid in 22 installments of Euro 275,000 each), placed with Michel’s Global Services FZE by AgustaWestland, was meant for ensuring positive media coverage of the AW-101 deal. This agreement also stated that Michel was required to ‘advise and assist’ AgustaWestland in all aspects of performing the contract and provide it with details of changes in the laws pertaining to India’s MoD procurement procedures. Michel was also required to identify and inform AgustaWestland of any hostile press activity that may have impacted on the execution of the contract, in addition to assisting AgustaWestland in the development of risk mitigation strategies to minimise the impact of any hostile press activities, and also give routine feedback on Indian media activity. Such payments were indeed made after the AW-101 contract was signed. For instance, Euro 275,000 was paid to Michel’s company account 60601358922302 in Lloyds TSB Bank’s Dubai branch on May 5, 2010. In another transaction, the same amount was debited from AgustaWestland’s Barclays bank account number 52773044 to Michel’s Dubai account on August 3, 2011.
Plausible Inferences
Following the Italian court’s recent verdict, it can now be stated with certainty that A) there is no prima facie evidence of any kind of wrongdoing, such as engaging in bribery, international corruption or contract violation; and B) the case was always about ‘falsifying invoices’ in order to ensure compliance with contract implementation. Explained further, what this means is that as per the MoD’s Defence Procurement Procedures, if the contracted OEM cannot ensure full compliance with the agreed-upon quantum of direct industrial offsets, then the OEM is mandatorily required—as penalty—to surrender a quantum of funds amounting to 5% of contract value to the MoD. In fact, this is exactly what Fincantieri SPA of Italy did three years ago when it voluntarily paid back to the MoD 5% of the contract value of the Euro 159.32 million procurement contract for two fleet replenishment tankers that were ordered for the Indian Navy back in October 2008. Therefore, in all probability, what Finmeccanica and AgustaWestland did together was create the façade of trying to fulfill their mandatory direct industrial offset obligations in the hope of not being required to surrender the amount of 5% of contract value back to the MoD.
It is also now abundantly clear that AgustaWestland never had to solicit anyone’s help either within India or outside for securing the AW-101 contract. How come? Simply because the three-engined AW-101 was from Day-1 the only viable contender to satisfy an operational requirement whose prime prerequisite was the provision of the best degree of survivability. That’s precisely the reason why the AW-101 was selected in the previous decade by the US Marines and the US Secret Service for serving as the primary VVIP transportation helicopter for the US President. In fact, the IAF and the Special Protection Group had to do hardly any spadework in terms of evaluations and bidding processes, and whatever was eventually done by both was to merely ensure the façade of conducting a global, competitive bidding process. No wonder the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has to date registered hardly any progress in its investigations, despite it taking just days to file a First Information Report (FIR) in March 2013 against ACM (Ret’d) S P Tyagi, and 12 others, alleging cheating and criminal conspiracy, and subsequently interviewing ACM (Ret’d) Tyagi, former National Security Adviser M K Narayanan, former Special SPG Director B V Wanchoo, and former Intelligence Bureau Director, E S L Narasimhan.
But that still does not explain why the services of the three Tyagi brothers were enlisted by Haschke and Gerosa. The only plausible reason for this that their services were enlisted for lobbying on behalf of AgustaWestland with various potential civilian helicopters operators—a crucial point totally overlooked by both the ‘desi’ journalists as well as the CBI. For, unknown to many is the fact that the projected civilian helicopter market in India will be at least thrice the size of the country’s combined military helicopter market between now and 2020. Potential customers include the various state governments, private hospitals, and corporate charter companies specialising in servicing the private tourist charter market as well as providing offshore helicopter services to the oil-n-gas industry in India.
Presently, the market leader in all these sectors is US-based Bell Helicopters, which has sold more than 100 helicopters, inclusive of the Bell 407, Bell 412EP and Bell 430. Coming next is AgustaWestland with its already-sold A-109E Power and AW-139. Next comes Eurocopter with its Dauphin-2s, AS.355 Twinstar and EC-135, and lastly followed by Sikorsky with its S-76C and S-76C++ variants. Over the years, the AW-139 has emerged as the choice favourite for both various state governments as well as private air-charter companies like Global Vectra Helicorp Ltd, Heligo Charters Pvt Ltd and India Flysafe Aviation Ltd. The AW-139 is also the frontrunner for meeting the Indian Coast Guard Service’s requirement for 14 shipborne medium-lift SAR helicopters, as well as for replacing Pawan Hans’ existing fleet of Dauphin 2s. And since neither state governments nor state-owned entities like Pawan Hans are subjected to stringent procurement norms of the type codified by the MoD, an intense ‘do-whatever-it-takes’ lobbying effort is always required in order to taste success. The CBI would therefore be well-advised to explore this particular angle, instead of groping in the dark with the AW-101 deal. 
But way beyond all this, the greatest damage to India, her MoD and the IAF has been done by none other than the former Raksha Mantri, Arakkaparambil Kurian Antony. And here’s why. By unilaterally terminating the contract on January 1, 2014 after only three AW-101s had been delivered, Antony for all intents and purposes created a horrendous precedent by WRONGLY admitting, without any prima facie evidence on hand, that the MoD’s procurement procedures were deeply flawed, and that they had loopholes despite the most stringent, redundant and multi-tiered checks-and-balances having been put in place. Translated into layman’s terms, what this means is that each and every procurement decision either already taken or to be taken by the MoD can now be easily challenged and even reversed by anyone who is not a wellwisher of India. Needdless to say, Antony has caused incalculable damage to the IAF’s hard-won institutional reputation.   
What Antony should have done was await the legal verdict from the Italian courts and based on the verdict’s pronouncements, he should have decided on the next step forward, i.e. if AgustaWestland and/or Finmeccanica were guilty of violating the MoD’s contractual norms and procedures, then by all means go full-speed ahead to seek financial compensation through liquidated damages from the OEM. What eventually happened was exactly the opposite, i.e. the MoD unilaterally encashed the bank guarantees worth about Rs.2,200 crore that had been provided by AgustaWestland to the State Bank of India, and followed it by terminating the AW-101 contract. Consequently, the nett loser in this sordid episode is once again the end-user, i.e. the IAF. Therefore, it is now more than obvious that when the UPA-2 coalition government decided to terminate the AW-101 contract, its decision was based purely on its own non-negotiable prospects for political survival, with the country’s supreme national interests becoming totally negotiable.     

The Future
To be honest, it’s quite bleak for the IAF’s VVIP transportation aircraft fleet at this point in time. And that’s because the IAF now has no other choice but to go for a VVIP transportation variant of the Mi-17V-5 helicopter. In this helicopter, the main gearbox drives the hydraulic pumps, which supply hydraulic power for the flying controls. Though the Mi-17V-5’s hydraulic system has a main and standby channel and both of them have independent tanks, pumps, accumulators and pipelines, both the pipelines feed only a single booster, which in turn moves the control surfaces. Though there are a total of four boosters in the system, one critical weakness is that if there is a leakage in any of the four boosters, there is a possibility of the entire oil from both the main and the standby systems leaking out. The mandated emergency procedure for a total hydraulic failure is to have both pilots flying the Mi-17V-5 in unison to a landing. As per the Flight Manual of this helicopter, the aircrew is required to abandon the Mi-17V-5 in case of total hydraulic failure. In case they cannot, then they have to resort to flying by both pilots to land immediately. Therefore, the procedure given in the Mi-17V-5’s Flight Manual for total hydraulic failure does not inspire confidence in those helicopter pilots who are certified for VVIP transportation. All of them feel that this helicopter cannot be flown with a total hydraulic failure, and that this aircraft cannot even be taxied on ground with total hydraulic failure.
Consequently, the only available common-sensical and logical option now left on the table is to bite the bullet, restore the bank guarantee that’s already been encashed, and commence negotiations with AgustaWestland for both a revised delivery schedule for the remaining AW-101s and for restoring the already-delivered AW-101s back to flightworthy condition. To even contemplate doing anything else to replace the AW-101s will only result in fatal disasters in future—this being the writing on the wall and not just a mere prophecy.

158 comments:

Anonymous said...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/china-battles-to-contain-militant-infiltration-via-pakistan-occupied-kashmir/articleshow/39480211.cms

Jaidev said...

Prasunda,

What do you think of this news on Iron Dome?


http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/07/25/israels-iron-dome-is-more-like-an-iron-sieve/?print=1&r=


Thanks

sumit sen said...

dada recent reports claim that india 'll buy 2 amur directly from russia.. What 'll be the impact of this deal on 75i tender..??

Lafa said...

I really don't think the GOI would restore the Augusta deal, actually it doesn't have to. Its quite clear by Italian actions that they are trying to shield the company because an Indian blacklisting of Finnmeccanica will result in huge losses for Italy.

GOI needs to exploit this opportunity for medium lift helicopter technology and other avenues. If not, blacklist the company for 86 years and keep them out of Indian markets till year 2100.

Anonymous said...

prasun sir

What's your say about this development?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/rs-30000-cr-indo-french-missile-develeopment-plan-in-troubled-waters/articleshow/39553749.cms

regards
abhay jain

rahul said...

Sir, I would like to know that how many su30 mki including super su30, the IAF will have? Is it 272 or 312
And what is the progress related to super su-30. Secondaly when will the arihant go to sea trials.

Rajeev Chaturvedi said...

Prasunda,

What's going on in P-75I submarine program? Defense News mentions that Amur is being sought but Navy is divided on subs..What happening?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JAIDEV: That report is by & large true. The Tamir interceptor rocket requires further development so that its warhead is made more powerful & once that happens, such a warhead will then be able to destroy the MBRL rocket’s warhead section in mid-air.

To SUMIT SEN: That report is still highly speculative. Nothing has been decided as yet.

To LAFA: Italian courts don’t function like their Indian counterparts. They’re all bound by certain regulations & covenants that apply to all EU member-states. It is therefore impossible for any Italian court to shield anyone from anything. It is already decided by A K Antony last year itself that there will be no more blacklisting of any OEM.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ABHAY JAIN: It is not only in troubled waters, but that entire project is close to being permanently shelved. And the reason for that is simple: no one wants radar-guided SHORADS anymore. Globally too, no one is developing any kind of new-generation radar-guided SHORADS. Today, with advances in fire-control systems & engagement radars, the task of Cold War-era radar-guided SHORADS is being taken over by MR-SAMs. That’s why one is witnessing the development of new-generation MR-SAMs like the IRIS family from Germany’s DIEHL, the Vityaz from Russia & the Barak-2. In India too, therefore, all three armed services have decided against procuring radar-guided SHORADS & have instead professed their need for IIR-guided SHORADS like SpyDer-SR, which uses only the surface-launched Python-5. And that’s also the reason why today no one is developing new-generation radar-guided SHORADS. Neither the Russians, nor the Chinese, nor the Europeans nor the US. In fact, In India’s case, the 25km-range Akash-1 also falls into the SHORADS category. And if the IA, IN & IAF go for the Barak-2 in MR-SAM & LR-SAM configurations, then there’s no need whatsover for the Akash-2 as well, since the Akash too is not canister-encased & is far too bulky as a system in its entirety when compared to the Barak-2 system. So, expect the Akash-2 too to be axed in the near future.

To RAHUL: 312 Su-30MKIs is all & eventually almost half of them (as per current IAF projections) will be upgraded to Super Sukhoi standard. R & D work on the Super Sukhoi is still underway as it had gotten delayed by two years from the Indian side. By 2016 the first flying prototype should become available for flight-tests. The Arihant cannot go for sea-trials unless & until the IN acquires a DSRV, period.

To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: Those reports are totally speculative & are not true. The only realistic option left on the table for both the Govt of India & the IN is that which increases the fleet strength of the Scorpene SSK fleet from six to nine, i.e. three more Scorpene SSKs will have to be ordered & acquired to add to the six now being built by MDL. Acquiring a brand-new SSK design will the Amur 1650 is not at all financially & logistically viable & the Amur 1650 remains an unproven product since even the Russian Navy has rejected it.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Answers to queries from the previous thread:

To RAD: A cost-effective solution like the RHIB equipped with a dipping active/passive sonar like the LFDS will obviate the need for far more expensive towed-array active/passive sonars. That’s a given. If fact, the US Navy has already developed such RHIB-based dipping sonar solutions for protecting their carrier battle groups. The Novator KS-172 was developed for intercepting high-altitude recce aircraft like the SR-71 & SR-74. Any member of the Su-27 family can make use of the KS-172, & not just the Super Su-30MKI. Even the MiG-31 can. AEW & CS platforms are best destroyed on the ground, not while they’re airborne. No one will engage in ToT for any piece of developed military hardware, Smerch-M or otherwise. Reverse-engineering & re-engineering is a totally different affair that does not involve any ToT. As for importing RLG-INS systems coupled to GPS receivers, this is being done not just for land navigation systems, but for warships & combat aircraft as well.

To SPECTRIBUTION: The Sylver A70 VLS system too uses an internal reload mechanism similar to the one devised for the Barak-2. They can be viewed ONLY AFTER one proceeds below-deck to see it. Nor is there any literature available on the Internet on this subject. Both Barak-2 & Sylver A70 are mounted on deck-roller-based systems of the type in use on transport aircraft when cargo pallets are required to be para-dropped. In case of the Barak-2, such a system is used for moving about the VLS cells. When the empty eight-round VLS cells need replacing, they’re moved around through a electro-hydraulic mechanism & fully loaded VLS cells are then brought in. Information on this system is available from only two sources: MDL, the shipbuilder, & RAFAEL, the missile developer. L & T won’t know anything at all about the Barak-2 since L & T is not involved in any way with such a R & D programme. L & T has only developed & built the VLS for BrahMos-1.

To RAJEEV CHATURVEDI: Any international bank HQ is best sited in those cities with first-class urban infrastructure. Clearly New Delhi doesn’t fall into that category—an undeniable fact. Therefore, Shanghai is a far better alternative. In India, people only have a penchant for making bombastic remarks about transforming Mumbai into another Shanghai or Kolkata into London. Nothing is subsequently done to do something along those lines. And as for the financial figures attached to procurement programmes, these are such projected ballpark figures based on international benchmarking & have nothing to do with the final financial allocation, which is decided upon just prior to contract signature.

As for the Rafale, the following weblink will provide you with most of the answers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1DF8-qBuao

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SREENIVAS R: The term LFDS is specific to the DRDO-developed dunking sonar. In rough weather, any hostile SSK or SSN too will find it extremely difficult to target any warship since the cruise-path of the torpedoes too will be affected. Therefore, as a rule, both submarine-based warfare & ASW operations are never undertaken in rough weather. Between ultra LF sonars & LF sonars, the former is still the best option, but for starters, the LF sonar option can be exercised pending the importation of ultra LF sonars.

To GESSLER: 1) There are at least three different types of hypersonic missiles that have been conceptualized by the Russians since the late 1980s: air-launched, ground-launched, & warship/submarine-launched. 2) Zircon-S is ot related to the BrahMos-2 project. 3) About 20km altitude. All hypersonic ASCMs will not be sea-skimming. They will be of the top-attack-type.

To BHASWAR: You seem to be ASSUMING that all ceasefire violations across the LoC are always initiated only by the PA or Pakistan-based entities. The reality is quite different & the same principle also applies to the LAC & the Union Home Affairs Minister himself confirmed that last month when he admitted that BOTH China & India engage in LAC transgressions from time to time. The same applies to the LoC as well. No one is holier-then-though in such situations, especially across ceasefire lines that are not permanent & therefore neither party is legally bound to resist from either opening fire or firing in retaliation.

Jaidev said...

Prasunda,

How will tiltrotors fare in Indian scenario? For example, instaed of developing a LUH, will India be better off looking at AW-609 helicopter for Siachen supply? Similarly, how beneficial would CV-22 Osprey would be in air-assault, Carrier-on-board supply, naval AEW&C and other roles?

Has GoI ever thought in this direction? Any hopes on this?

Thanks

Ranjit said...

Prasunda,

That STRATPOST video on RAFALE is quite confusing because Air officers themselves do not look clear in their head.

What is Modi Government thinking on these three fighters? LCA, Rafale and FGFA? Are we going to buy all three of them and if yes, can we afford them?

Are the negotiations on Rafale going on or stalled? Will LCA come, ever? Will FGFA contract be signed?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JAIDEV: Are you pulling my leg? With an annual hydrocarbons import bill breaching the US$200 billion mark & annual imports of US$70 billion worth of electronics goods, do you really think any end-user can afford to even dream about procuring tilt-rotors of any type? Furthermore, are such platforms really necessary for supplying high-altitude outposts housing no more than 6 personnel at any given time? A far more realistic & achievable option would be for HAL to team up with a US-based innovations company called AVX Aircraft Company & co-develop a version of the LUH that embraces the co-axial rotor dual ducted fan design concept developed by AVX. This will result in the LUH morphing into a high-altitude cruising helicopter, which will comply with all the reqmts of both the IA & IAF. Furthermore, a UAV version of such a modified LUH can also easily be developed. At the G-to-G level, the US State Dept, US Defense Dept & the White House will be more than supportive of such a JV, since this is precisely the kind of military-industrial cooperation that the US has long sought with Indian military-industrial entities. Don’t forget that the mission computers that are on board the Su-30MKI, MiG-27UPG, Jaguar DARIN-3 & Tejas Mk1 have all been developed by HAL-Edgewood—a JV between HAL,US-based Edgewood Ventures LLC & India-based Edge Tech India.

You can read all about co-axial rotor dual ducted fan design concept developed by AVX here:

http://www.avxaircraft.com/oh-58f-avx-modification/

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RANJIT Lolz! It indeed is confusing for 2 prime reasons: 1) the inability of the ex-IAF officers to articulate their views; & 2) the illogical rants of the ‘desi’ journalists. Let’s begin with Point 1. I’m flabbergasted by ACM (Ret’d) S P Tyagi’s revelation about the IAF being totally clueless about the methodology used for calculating the total life-cycle costs (TLCC) of a combat aircraft. All that Air HQ had to do was to approach the USAF for intellectual help & the USAF would have gladly obliged. The TLCC was first conceived by the US in the early 1960s when it introduced the concept of Foreign Military sales (FMS). For airborne platforms, this involved the USAF’s Systems Command, which appointed a particular USAF air base housing a logistics centre as the nodal agency for a particular aircraft-type & the office dealing with a particular aircraft-type was & is known as the Systems Programme Office (SPO). Thus, there are various such entities today, known as F-15 SPO, F-16 SPO etc, all of which specialise in evolving TLCC estimates as well as provision of through-life product-support. The USAF’s concept was embraced by all other NATO air forces as well as those of France & the Scandinavian countries since the early 1970s. What ACM Tyagi should have said was that the IAF never had the experience of collating all the data reqd for calculating ‘cradle-to-grave’ TLCCs, even though it could well have using the HF-24 Marut as a benchmark. Secondly, the participating ex-IAF officers failed to admit that the large-scale induction of various aircraft-types of USSR-origin in the 1980s was due to A) directives from the MoD, & 2) the Soviets charging, until 1991, only ‘friendship’ price-levels. This changed totally after the USSR’s breakup & since then the Ruskies have charged prices that are only 20% lower than those of their Western counterparts, but which nevertheless are still quite expensive. For instance, while a 2S6 Tunguska was costing only $9 million till 1990, by 1993 its price at shot up to $19 million. As I had stated earlier several times, the IAF in the 1980s never wanted to go for the MiG-23MF, MiG-23BN, MiG-27M & MiG-29B-12. It instead wanted to standardise on only the Mirage 2000H/TH. Despite this, the MoD on the PMO’s instructions overruled the IAF. Therefore, a particular ‘desi’ journaist’s rant about the IAF choosing to induct all the MiG variants in the 1980s is totally false. & the ex-IAF officers are afraid till this day of opening their mouths & spitting out the truth about the murky procurement decisions of the 1980s.

Cont’d below…

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

I don’t know why Admiral (Ret’d) Arun Prakash kept quiet on the issue of TLCC, since the IN has ALWAYS done detailed TLCC analysis for each & every warship that has been designed & built in India. Therefore, all that Air HQ had had to do was to consult Navy HQ on the various methodologies applied for deriving TLCC estimates. Air Marshal (Ret’d) Matheswaran is spot on (full marks to him for that) when he stated that the Rafale MMRCA procurement exercise will not in any way enable India to have access to the design technologies of any part of the Rafale. Instead, it will just be another licenced-production project of the type that India has witnessed since the 1950s. But what was left unsaid was equally interesting, & that is the IAF is extremely skeptical of the fully-certified FGFA’s availability before 2025 due to A) Russia’s inability as yet to come up with the FGFA’s definitive powerplant, & 2) the DRDO’s inability to initiate the R & D effort on time for the FGFA’s integrated avionics suite. It is also no secret that Russia has been unable to match the West’s technological edge in developing superalloys using rare-earth materials & its turbofans therefore have far lower TTSLs than their Western counterparts & this applies to both the AL-31FP & RD-33-3/RD-33MK. That’s precisely why even China has adopted its homegrown WS-10B turbofan for its J-11B & J-15 heavy-MRCAs.

As for the Tejas Mk1 & LCA (Navy) Mk1 MRCAs, they were designs by, of & for ADA’s scientists, just like the Saras has been for scientists of NAL. Therefore, the Tejas Mk1 requires an extended quantum of support equipment for 2nd- & 3rd-level MRO—something not at all suitable for a MRCA that’s reqd to operate from diverse air bases. Efforts are on to resolve this issue by developing the Tejas Mk2/LCA (Navy) Mk2—a task that involves a virtual re-design of the aircraft’s entire airframe & its internal bulkheads. That is precisely why I have for long been propagating the procurement of some 90 Tejas Mk1 tandem-seaters that can be used as LIFT by both the IAF & IN, since flying training aircraft, unlike MRCAs, are reqd to operate from only a single air base & therefore do not require a large footprint/network of ground-based support facilities. At the same time, the MoD should immediately terminate the HJT-36 IJT’s R & D effort as it is a guaranteed waste of financial resources. No one in their right mind will induct into service an IJT whose AL-55I turbofan has a TTSL of 300 hours.

Mr. RA 9 said...

What are the requirements and progress of Navy LCA-Mk1 and LCA-Mk2 for IN.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

On February 24, 2012, the MoD’s Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) sanctioned the building of 8 Naval LCA Mk1 LSP aircraft by HAL. The 8 will be four single-seat fighters and four twin-seat trainers. NP-1 is already at the SBTF in Dabolim for flight-tests using the shore-based ramp for takeoff. While the IAF is committed to procuring an initial 83 Tejas Mk2s, the Navy has expressed its firm requirement for 46 LCA Mk2 (Navy).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 9: Looks like the Govt of India has accepted one of my earlier suggestions on the solar power generation potential of J & K:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ladakh-makes-hay-while-the-sun-shines/articleshow/38448794.cms

While these will come as a heart-attack for those who assume that India is a poor country:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/ttd-deposits-1800-kg-gold-with-sbi/article6275894.ece?homepage=true

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Thiruvananthapuram/will-kerala-come-to-malaysias-aid/article6279475.ece?homepage=true

SSG said...

Hi Prasun,

Tata is manufacturing cabin of S-92 superhawk. Any chance seeing them in service ?

Mr. RA 9 said...

Thanx! As usual you have shot the bull's-eye.

sumit sen said...

dada.. U r doing a great job.. Keep up the good work!!

Jaidev said...

Prasunda,

Thanks for your answer. I saw the AVX Aircraft website. That company is quite imaginative and futuristic. Their both JMR and light helo designs are pretty impressive.

The problem is whether US government will allow India to get into a joint venture on such a hi-fi technology?

Thanks.

THINK TANK said...

Designing New FMBT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-LupA0YkeU

India Should Collaborate with Poland on PL01 Tank Designed by Orbum. India should not repeat the mistake it did in case of LCA development...when Sweden offered her to Joint develop Light Fighter....we all can see success of GRIPEN and where our TEJAS is standing now. Have a WHOLESTIC View and keep the User Requirement & Time View in mind. Polland's PL01 Tank project is the best one India can collabrate with...it will be Win Win situation for both.

Gessler said...

Prasun ji, look at this

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/08/defence-minister-confirms-livefist.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed

Good news is, IJT is heading for proper cancellation. Bad news is, they are said to be looking for a foreign IJT!

Mr. RA 9 said...

In all probability the IJT shall not be required and Tejas-Mk1 shall come out as LIFT. Hope the new and much better Govt takes an early and critical study of it as per suggestions of Sri PKS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

INS Kolkata will be commissioned on August 16, 2014 & INS Kamorta will be commissioned on August 23, 2014.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/defence-deals-with-finmeccanica-put-on-hold/articleshow/39702097.cms

-----------------------------------
Looks like some Indian decision-makers are hell-bent upon committing Harakiri.

Mr. RA 9 said...

This Harakiri should be stopped.

rad said...

HI Prasun
You had mentioned before that the bel sonars were not preferred by the navy, it seems ins kolkatta has all its sonars made in india , whats the reason.
Could you explain why we are importing inertial nav systems when the local stuff is available with very accurate performance.It bodes well to mass produce them and bring down the cost
can the spyder sam system be a anti cruise missile system or is it better to have a purpose built missile for the same.As the maitri shorads is as good as dead
Is it a good idea to ask the Israelis to modify the tamir missile which seems to be successful, into a anti cruise missile , the important factor being the per unit cost which is 20,000 $ if i am right.It also has an active seeker and seems as as capable as the derby as they seem similar in size and configuration.Can it be turned into a shorads on a very low risk low cost , low incubation time alternative?.
Is there a plan to have an active seeker or a IIR seeker on the akash missile,can it be done within the existing air frame design. Is that not a good idea as we can eliminate guidance radars and make the system more simple.

Anonymous said...

If Govt is controlling Food Prices then it should have alternative ways of supporting farmers.. From a decade there is no such initiative taken by Govt, in addition to this there is no support to farmers who lost every thing in cyclones and heavy rains.. As of Now a Clerk in a Bank is owning a Car but a Farmer with 10 Acres of land cannot.. Where is the difference? We need vegetables for less price and we shouldn't support farmers? Please think on other side.. if the same procedures are followed there will be no Farmer in our India to cultivate.. its my view, Any one can correct me.. Thanks

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/lotus-bloom-in-west-bengal/article6284743.ece?homepage=true

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2014/08/06/12_countries_participate_in_tank_biathlon_37235.html

ALEX said...

Prasun ,

Your argument that radar guided SHORADS are not required and IIR missiles are preferred is not True.

IIR missiles are good , but what happens when it Rains , or there is a cloud cover ? IIR missiles will then be in-effective .

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ALEX: Of course its’s true, as evidenced by all past conflicts since 1991 where cruise missiles were used. During bad weather, all airborne aerial campaigns are grounded & that includes cruise missiles since they’re as vulnerable to lightning strikes as any manned aircraft is. And have you ever come across cloud cover just 50 feet above the surface (the terminal cruising altitude of any cruise missile) over any plain or plateau? Even in top-attack mode, where a cruise missile uses X-band SAR seekers & cruises at a higher altitude, it will be easily visible to IRST sensors at an altitude of at least 10km despite cloud-cover or mist or smog. Lastly, while radar-guided SHORADS can be neutralised by standoff jamming, IIR SAMs cannot since the cruise missiles don’t have intregral decoy dispensers.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

Good to have you back after a long time .

Just a small request . Had a couple or two questions in your previous thread . If time permits will you please answer them ?

Thanks ,

Vikram

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Vikram Guha: VMT. Will do so, kindly rest assured.

prateek said...

sir ,
have a look at the following videos :-
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLwhUk43kRI

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84wTG4K9uiA

Don't you think sir , mingling with the crowds like this is a considerable risk for PM Modi.
This is surely an avoidable situation,don't u think ?This kind if things can happen in europe or north america but not in the subcontinent.

What are the SOPs in these situations ?
How tight are the security arrangements & how foolproof they are ?
& do you think it is easy for undesirable elements to sneak in & cause trouble ?

the crowd seems to be uncontrollable towards the end.

Please reply.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SSG: The NMRH version of the S-92, known as the CH-148 Cyclone, is one of the contenders for the 12-tonne NMRH reqmt. The first 16 NMRHs to be acquired will, however, be the 10-tonne S-70B2 Seahawk.

To Mr.RA 9 & SUMIT SEN: VMT.

To JAIDEV: The solutions evolved by AVX for existing helicopters are mere innovations, not exactly cutting-edge technologies. The US has authorised far more sensitive technologies for India thus far since the mid-1980s, like co-development of mission computers that I highlighted above, plus the FBW-FCS for the Tejas Mk1. Without Lockheed Martin’s assistance, the FBW-FCS could never have been developed in-house by ADA.

To GESSLER: Arey yaar, this bandalbaaz is merely echoing what I had been stating since 2012, i.e. the HJT-36 IJT & HTT-40 BTT projects will be scrapped, & there will be no imports of LUH/RSH helicopters. But what else can you expect from such folks, who don’t even know that FCNA stands for Force Commander Northern Areas, & not Frontier Constabulary for Norther Areas. Watch what Kabir Bedi says in the narrative between 03.12 & 03.39 at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti_xPBoC8hY

Also, do watch these excellent documentaries on OP Vijay at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHxNSyHFY-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7542Y4QqKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFsMRr0sHTI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95dEWr--SX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfsaCZMXDII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lYeXVdSGNo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbINIba-Uds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B_yE3RP-3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1QCYrCr9-0

Lots of interesting factoids emerge from them.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: The sonars not preferred were the older mid-frequency hull-mounted panoramic sonars like APSOH and HUMSA. The LF sonars like HUMSA-NG are a lot better, if not the very best. The locally-developed RLG-INS requires extended flight certification clearance & since all Tejas Mk1 PVs & LSPs are involved in the flight-test programme with Sigma-96 RLG-INS, there’s no spare platform for testing the indigenous RLG-INS. The SpyDer-SR with only Python-5 is an excellent anti-cruise missile system option. The Tamir being radar-guided will not be that good an option. Akash-2 will just have a higher energetic solid propellant to boost the missile’s range up to 39km. Everything else will be the same as the Akash-1.

The good news is that this year’s defence budget at last includes money for constructing five support vessels for the DRDO, which will be built by HSL in Vizag & these vessels will be owned and operated by the DRDO for serving as floating test-ranges & will have advanced telemetry tracking radars & instrumentation on-board. Once these vessels are delivered, the ITR in Odisha will be slowly wound up & all test-firing of missiles will take place from the Andaman & Nicobar Island-chain. These five vessels were due to have been ordered back in 2007.

To PRATEEK: Mingling with the crowds as a spontaneous gesture is not a security hazard since it is never pre-planned & therefore no one with evil intentions can foresee such an event taking place. But, such spontaneous mingling must be short affairs & not extended ones, that’s a given.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BISWAJIT & GESSLER: What is happening in Iraq is not what it seems. Bit first, let’s take a walk back in history. By 2006 there was a plan conceived by the US to balkanize Iraq into a Sunni state, a Shia State & a Kurdish State. But this was opposed by the likes of Turkey & Iran. Fast-forward to 2009 & there were pro-democracy rumblings in Tunisia, Egypt & Syria due to serious economic discontent & high unemployment. At the same time, Saddam Hussein’s No2 Izzat Ibrahim, who was never caught by the US (probably because he was being sheltered by either the Jordanians or the Saudis), had succeeded in uniting the various Sunni Arab tribal elders inside Iraq in the hope of ushering back a Baathist government with the Sunnis in power & making Iraq a secular country. However, this did not succeed because Iran went all-out to empower & arm the Iraqi Shias. And after civil war broke out in Syria, Iran intensified efforts to create a Shia crescent comprising Syria, Iraq & Iran, which terrified the Sunni sheikhdoms of Bahrain, the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait & Saudi Arabia, plus the Jordanian monarchy. That’s when a regional Jihadi cause emerged with the help of these states & the ISIS began taking shape with the help of tens of thousands of unemployed Sunni Arab youths who in any case had nothing better to do. However, it will soon emerge inside Iraq that the so-called ideological Sunni Jihadis will fall & perish sooner rather than later, & ultimately the fight will be between the Iraqi Shias supported by Iran, & the ex-Baathists led by Izzat Ibrahim. As for the Indian angle, it is most likely that Shia Muslims will proceed to Iraq for Jihad if the call is given by Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. Sunni Muslims from India are most
unlikely to take part in such sectarian conflicts. Nor will there be any Shia-Sunni feud within India & nor will there be any flood of Jihadis from the Middle East to India by either land or sea.

To GESSLER: Kindly inform your fellow bloggers at the Pakistani chat-forums that only two Muslim countries in the world have engaged in genocidal activities against the Palestinians. One is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan & the other is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. It all happened in September 1970 when the PLO & PFLP were forcibly driven out of Jordan on King Hussein’s orders & the guy who carried out this order was none other than the then Brig Zia-ul-Haq, who at that time was in Jordan helping the Royal Jordanian Land Forces raise their second armoured Brigade. This will hopefully put an end to all the rants of various ill-informed Pakistanis who are comparing Gaza with Kashmir.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: 1) There’s no need for thermonuclear weapons. Boosted-fission warheads scalable between 150kT & 550kT yields will cause just as much damage as will a thermonuclear warhead. 2) Why the AIM-132 ASRAAM? Why not standardize on the Python-5 instead?

To AC: 1) Not yet. It has not even been test-fired so far. 2) Of course it can be done & is being done. Have already explained it above. 3) Dash Mk3 was chosen well ahead of the TopSight. 4) No ASCMs are on board any of the Project 28 ASW corvettes. SIPRI does not have any resident correspondent nor a stringer within India & will therefore have no clue about the procurement decisions of India. All its sources of information are therefore third-hand & consequently the data is corrupted.

To SANJEEV KUMAR: You are ASSUMING that the only outstanding issue regarding the DHruv M3’s NMRH version is the folding main rotor blade. The issue is far more complex. For both the IN & ICGS, any shipborne helicopter must have on board a nose-mounted multi-mode search radar, a FLIR turret, an internal two-man processor console, extra internal fuel tanks, & for the IN, a dunking sonar installation. If all such sensors were to be fitted, then automatically the endurance will drop due to increased weight & lack of internal space for the extra fuel tanks. Then there’s the case of the Supervision SV-2004 nose-mounted multi-mode radar which is still under development & which, if fitted, will not leave any space for a FLIR turret installation. Therefore, for both the IN & ICGS, even having shore-based SAR squadrons of Dhruv Mk3s is next to impossible & at best, therefore, those Dhruv Mk3s already ordered for the IN & ICGS will at best be used for only ferrying around personnel.

To SUDIPTA: 1) There’s no air-launched BrahMos-1. Only the BrahMos-Mini will be air-launched. 2) No. 3) 16 BrahMos-1 ASCMs per DDG is a fairly good weapons load. 4) No. 5) About 300km to begin with. 6) Yes. The target recognition algorithms can be fed in from the warship itself. 7) Of course, because the DRDO is not an autonomous corporate entity. 8) The only policy option is to have ready-to-launch SLBMs on-board. Without that it makes no sense to have a fleet of SSBNs.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Nope. DIRCMs are not on-board the C-17As as yet, although they’re hard-wired to accept DIRCM installations if reqd in future. Presently, there are only chaff/flare dispensers on board.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To FINANCEBLOGGER: The report is 100% true. The problem lies in the FADEC installation. Hence the premature engine failures in mid-flight after touching the 700 flight-hour mark. What needs to be understood is that aircraft like the MiG-29 & Su-30MKI were designed to register only 120 flight-hours per annum as per regulations at the time of the USSR’s existence. The IAF flies a lot more than that per anum & every IAF pilot is reqd to fl at least 25 hours per month. Consequently, more-than-specified usage leads to greater wear-and-tear & therefore all Russian OEM-specified TBO schedules go haywire in India.

To HARYYNAM KIRAN: The DPSUs can’t be shut down, that’s for sure, because lakhs of jobs are at stake. But they do need divestment & need to have autonomous corporate management practices.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) No decision on this has been taken as yet. 2) The order’s quantum can be reduced & thus can be resurrected. 3) No one other than India wants the BrahMos-Mini or BrahMos-1. 4) Of course it is. 5) Not yet. 6) That was known way back in 1954 itself. 7) They’re for covering different seaboards. 8) Of course it does, since Saab now automatically controls Kockums AB, which is owned by TKMS.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To K RAVI: I totally, disagree, since it presents a totally one-sided view by analyzing the warfighting practices of only the northern Indian Hindus, as if the rest of India never had any grand strategies or tailor-made operational art. Warfighters like Rajendra Chola, Rana Sanga, Maharana Pratap, Chhatrapati Shivaji & Lacchit Barphukan & their warfighting tactics & doctrines are not examined at all. In fact, these warfighters were masters in the art of asymmetric warfare in order to overcome the advantages of positional warfare as enjoyed by the Afghans & Mughals.

The reasons for having to endure such myopic views on the history of warfare in the Indian subcontinent are many, but the main reason is this: Most present-day Indians by nature are emotional & very rarely apply common-sense & logical reasoning for objectively analysing issues/events/phenomena. For instance, while the Govt of India is apparently gung-ho about building a national war memorial, on the other hand it has yet to declassify its official history of the wars of 1962, 1965 & 1971. Then there are the events of OP Pawan in Sri lanka & OP Vijay of 1999, which were never even recognised as either wars or peace-making operations or high-intensity limited wars. Consequently, there will ever be any official historical record of such events. Therefore, in the absence of all such records between 1962 & 1999, how exactly will the National War memorial be built? What will the Memorial play host to? Has anyone in the MoD even thought of this???

Here’s another example of spectacular ineptitude: Hailed as India’s first ‘global king’, Rajendra Chola I was coronated 1,000 years ago. But the anniversary of the emperor whose sway extended to the Far East and who is credited to have stood in the way of Mahmud Ghazni’s march to the south was all but forgotten by Tamil and Indian culture vultures. It was left to the people and scholars to celebrate the anniversary of the man who was known as the “Gangai konda Cholan” (the man who touched the Ganges) after he defeated the Palas of Bengal and brought water from the Ganga. He had a formidable navy, an army of 1.7 million soldiers (as opposed to only 600,000 of Emperor Asoka) and is known to have sent artisans to Cambodia to help build the Angkor Vat. But both the Centre and even political parties like the DMK and AIADMK forgot the occasion.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

thanks for answers from previous thread & sorry for pestering you again

1. you replied 'To SSG: The NMRH version of the S-92, known as the CH-148 Cyclone, is one of the contenders for the 12-tonne NMRH reqmt. The first 16 NMRHs to be acquired will, however, be the 10-tonne S-70B2 Seahawk.' why does IN need a 10 ton then a 12 ton helo

2. In this thread you said about hydraulic failure in Mi-17V-5 in that case not just VVIP regular military flying is fraught with
danger, cant we have something as fail safe for that

3. just read somewhere that not the Brahmos 1 but the Brahmos mini will be used as SLCM fired from torpedo tubes. i think in that case P75 Scorpene no. will be doubled and will be equipped with torpedo tube launched Brahmos mini SLCM and P75i & SSN project will be clubbed & will also be equipped with torpedo tube launched Brahmos mini SLCM, your views

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

rad said...

hi Prasun
you mentioned that the IIR missile is better for anti cruise missile operations and as suggested by you we can standardize on the python 5 but i have a suspicion that a python 6 is around as the Israelis will never keep quite.Any take on that?
Is it possible to ask the Israelis to build a custom version of the python 5 for our shorads and anti cruise missile program Its high time we started making our own IIR missiles.. They have developed a medium range python 5 with a booster and also we can do a tot along . After all ordering a 1000 python 5 will bring down the cost and be a good temptation for them.They seem to have done a TOT with python 3 to China.All we need is a good networked AESA radars mounted on a platform and elevated like the giraffe radars to catch low level cruise missiles.A smaller version of the aesa radar supplied to the air force will be great. I think the barak 8 will be too expensive to waste on cruise missiles , what is your take.
Pakistan cruise missiles supplied by china seems to have dsmac and there are no reports saying that they have a SAR radar , please explain.

sumit sen said...

dada u.s defence minister is here on a visit.. Which deals were on the cards?? And which of them 'll be signed??

Ranjit said...

Prasunda,

Dhruv MK III is in the same league as Westland Lynx or Super Lynx 100 or Augusta AW 159 wildcat. Engine wise, Dhruv's engine is better than Lynx engine and equal to AW159. Eurocopter has a helo in this range as well.

So why can't it be converted into a naval ASuW, SAR and Utility helos? Probably, that's one reason pushing the latest DAC authorization.

Mathuran said...

@Prasun K Sengupta,

I believe that most of the people doesn't know much about the Indian history. So no wonder people forgot about Rajendra Chola. It is a speculation that the reason for neglection of Chola Emperors and their temples/functions by the politicians is that they speculatively produce a negative consequence to them when they participate in such events.

I believe that our fellow Indians should devote some time to read some of the pages from books such as "Wonder that was India" by AL Basham, books by Majumdar, Nilakanda Sastri and others... A huge number of history books were written by foreign authors, infact many forgotten empires and their history was reconstructed to us by them, and we Indians should take the time to atleast read a few.

Eventhough they get ignored, Rajendra Chola and others will get apt mention and recognition in your revered wall/blog of honour and at other such places.

Positively, even without big advertisements and fanfare, huge number of people gathered at his old capital "Gangai Konda Cholapuram" on his birthday and coronation ceremony.

ALEX said...

Hi Prasun ,

Your comment that Russian turbofans have lower TTSLs compared to American and European models is not completely accurate .

The original TTSLs for Soviet and Russian engines was because they were designed for wartime when an aircraft might last a few weeks at most, so rather than carefully stripping down the aircraft and their engines to see if any component required replacement they simply set a fairly conservative schedule for parts replacement.


This was more expensive and resulted in TTSLs that were 10 or more times less than western aircraft (which was a bad thing in terms of cost) but in practical terms it meant the Soviet or Russian aircraft could operate with little to no support for long periods without problems in fairly harsh conditions.


The western standard of testing and checking components and only replacing parts that clearly need replacing is much cheaper but also requires more intensive inspections and more down time.

It also effected the performance of the aircraft with fighters performing fewer high speed flights and limiting their g forces during peacetime to extend their operational lives.

A good example is the very expensive C-17 which can't be used for short takeoffs from rough air strips or the owner will invalidate the warranty... even though that was what the aircraft is supposed to be able to do best...

Thanks

SS said...

Hi prasunji,

In the advent of M777 gun purchase in back burner due to cost escalations. Now the CH 47 Chinook deal doesn't make any sense (meant to lift the M 777 ultra light howitzers to mountainous regions in quick time). Now the clear change in strategy is quick development of border infrastructure to facilitate faster movement/deployment of towed/mounted/tracked howitzers. Any indication of the CH 47 deal being scrapped??? VMT

prateek said...

Sir,
Please give an overview of NMRH project.
1) how many helicopters are sought in total.Is it 120 ?? & in how much time frame ?
2) Please give a breakup of no. helicopters sought in different weight categories as well.10,12,16 tonne ?
3) & most importantly who are the likely contenders in each category & who'll be the likely winners in each category.
4) will these be FMS deals or bids will be invited ?
5) when can we expect the deals to be signed & when shall the deliveries start ?

6) keeping the expansion of IN in mind the total requirement must be more than 120,isn't it ?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

Thank You for the answers .

Once INDIA starts manufacturing defense equipments in-house either indigenously or by entering into JV/partnership with US and European companies do you feel that RUSSIA will still be able to sell any defense equipments to India ?

MTA has not taken off so the only 2 projects remaining are FGFA and Brahmos .

The general trend now in New Delhi is to go for US or European military hardware .


Thanks,
-VIKRAM

SANJEEV KUMAR said...

Prasun da,

DAC recent order for 32 Dhruv mk3 for IN and CG for Rs 7000 Cr.

When compared to IA order Rs 2500 Cr must be the cost of basic Dhruv while rest Rs 4500 Cr should be the cost of sensors and weapons.

Dhruv mk3 won the order for CG 16nos Helos for 6.5T class to be operated from ships while the other competitor naval panther was non complient.

Dhruv mk3 according to HAL brochure has useful load of 2430Kg,internal fuel of 1055kg and max endurance of 3 hours 40 minutes.

Naval version with 4 crew (400kg)+radar (100kg)+ Sonbouy (200kg)+Dunking sonar(300kg)+ 2 LWT torpedoes (400Kg)= 1400 Kg.

Internal fuel 1055kg+ payload 1400kg=2455 kg.

In asw role endurance will be 80% of the max endurance i.e, 3 hours and in full hover endurance will be 70% of the max i.e, 2hours 40minutes.

If two 310 kg marte er Ashm of 100km range is carried endurance will go down by 20%.

In short naval Dhruv is a capable machine comparable in endurance to sea hawk which carries 3 torpedoes and therefore DAC has given a Rs 7000 Cr order.

K.RAVI said...

Prasun Sir ,

Will you please take a look at this HIndustan Times report on the Javelin Missile

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/arms-deal-what-hagel-will-have-to-offer-during-his-india-visit/article1-1249428.aspx

(1) The US does not want to transfer the algorithm related to the core infra-red seeker technology . Can you plz explain what type of an algorithm is this ?

(2) Will the "new Javelin" that India & US plans to develop have a range of 2.5 kms ?

VMT

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To THINK TANK: What is there to co-develop? Poland along with BAE Systems has already fully developed it & are offering it as an off-the-shelf product. Consequently, the Poles will never entertain any needless requests for co-development. The Arjun family of MBTs can very easily be suitably modified locally to incorporate almost all the enhancements that one sees in the PLL-1.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) Simply because all the locally-built & Russia-origin FFGs of the IN are designed to accommodate 10-tonne NMRHs while the locally-built DDGs of the IN are designed to accommodate 12-tonne NMRHs. 2) Of course the hydraulic system deficiencies are there for all versions of the Mi-17. The only other option is to go for another type of helicopter. 3) If BrahMos-Mini is the intended SALCM, then why did the DRDO waste money by test-firing a BrahMos-1 last year from a submerged pontoon? It doesn’t add up. All SSK-manufacturing OEMs contacted for the P-75I project have proposed VLS plug-ins for accommodating the BrahMos-1. Till to date, no one has designed torpedo tubes for launching any version of BrahMos.

To RAD: Python-6 may be on the drawing boards but it is not on offer to anyone so far. The Python-5 encased in a cannister for the SpyDer-SR is the optimum configuration for an IIR seeker-based SHORADS. Barak-8 will be employed only against ASCMs, not LACMs. Babur & CJ-10 do not have DSMAC. Both have a X-band SAR sensor, which is derived from the design of the Grifo-7 MMR originally developed for the PAF’s F-7P Skybolt.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUMIT SEN: US SECDEF Chuck Hagel’s ATWIND tour starts with a stop in New Delhi, India where he’s scheduled to hold bilateral meetings with Indian leaders, including PM NaMo & RM Arun Jaitley on issues like Afghanistan & bilateral military-industrial cooperation. Hagel will also deliver a speech at the Reliance Group-owned Observer Research Foundation (ORF), a prominent Indian think-tank. This is significant as this year marks the 25th anniversary of the ORF. And as I had explained last year, the US to team up with India to jointly develop a version of the Javelin ATGM that is optimized for usage in high-altitude areas. And if better sense prevails (which is highly doubtful as of now), then HAL should take up my proposal for co-developing a version of the LUH fitted with co-axial rotor dual ducted fans. These two co-development projects can easily become the model for other India-US flagship projects aimed at joint development of innovative solutions. I hope someone in the PMO & MoD takes heed of this unsolicited advice.

To RANJIT: Not true. Examine the nose section of the Super Lynx, for instance & compare it with that of the Dhruv Mk3. The former accommodates both a search radar & FLIR turret on the nose, whereas the latter doesn’t. In other words, product engineering by HAL is deficient. The enormous nosecone designed by HAL to accommodate the Supervision SV-2004 MMR leaves no space at all for a FLIR turret installation. Consequently, without a MMR & FLIR, the Dhruv Mk3 will not qualify as either a SAR platform or an ASuW platform. For performing ASW tasks, the Dhruv Mk3 will need to be equipped with the MMR & its related display console, FLIR turret & its related display console, plus a dunking sonar installation & a MAD boom, & a related acoustic signals processor console. This in turn will result in the Dhruv Mk3 becoming heavier. Furthermore, there will be no spare internal volume left for housing extra fuel tanks. Thus, even the ASW role is undesirable for the Dhruv Mk3. That leaves this helicopter fit to undertake only utility roles.

To MATHURAN: VMT.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ALEX: Your comments are self-contradictory. Do you mean to say that platforms of Soviet/Russian origin are meant for use only in wartime? If that’s the case, then how exactly does not train with them during peacetime & gain proficiency in operating such platforms, especially when the USSR NEVER had the culture of developing simulators for such platforms? If it is true that the more one trains in peacetime, the less one sweats during wartime, then surely an appreciable number of operating hours will have to be logged in beyond the 120 hours of stipulated flying time for the Su-30MKI. Furthermore, while the Ruskies have guarantees about the TBO & TTSL figures of their platforms & related sub-systems during contract signature, why is it that such figures are impossible to adhere to by the non-Russian end-users? Why is it that the flights of Su-30MKIs have to be separated by an interval of 1 minute during takeoffs, when no such restrictions apply to aircraft of Western origin? Why is it that for non-Russian aircraft there’s a 3-level MRO process, whereas for Russia-developed aircraft one requires a Base Repair Workshop for even minor TBO-related MRO activities? Downtimes (AOG) & unavailability levels of aircraft of Russian origin are therefore always far higher than for those of Western origin.

To SS: The CH-47F was not meant exclusively for hauling the LW-155s. The IAF also wanted these helicopters to have FLIR turrets so that they could double up as all-weather troop transports, i.e. to assist the IA with air-mobility of infantry personnel.

To PRATEEK: There are two types of NMRHs: medium-lift (10-tonne platforms) & heavylift (12+tonne platforms). In the 10-tonne category, the reqmt is for 44 units of Sikorksy’s twin-engined S-70B Seahawk to replace existing Sea King Mk42Bs & Ka-28PLs. In the 12-tonne category, the reqmt is for 24 units. The IN hasn’t yet decided whether it wants a 12-tonne platform or 16-tonne platform, but chances are that the former will prevail. In this case, the contenders are Sikorsky’s twin-engined CH-148 Cyclone & AgustaWestland three-engined AW-101’s Merlin version. Lastly, there’s the 4.25-tonne light twin-engined helicopter category for light utility/communications/flying training for both the IN & ICGS, for which the Bell 429 is the frontrunner to replace the SA.316B Alouette IIIs/Chetaks. This reqmt is for 56 units for the IN & 36 for the ICGS. It is not necessary that all these deals are channeled through the FMS channel. They can be direct commercial contracts as well. FMS comes into play only when there’s a sole source or single-vendor situation where there’s only one offer on the table & there are no competitors, like the LW-155, C-130J-30, CH-47F & C-17A. As for timeframes for contract signature, most of them will be inked only in the next fiscal year.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM GUHA: Russia will find the going extremely difficult in the years ahead, since there are so few new products/solutions emanating from Russia. Most of the hardware that India has bought since the previous decade were ALL developed during the Cold War era. Furthermore, Russia’s population is declining & the best brains of that country can no longer be channeled into the military-industrial sector. During the Cold War, there was no such deficiency. Just see how long Russia has taken to roll out the Vityaz MR-SAM or Mi-38. On top of that, Russian OEMs simply don’t have the kind of global footprint that their Western counterparts have & therefore Indian OEMs stand a far better chance of reaping financial rewards if they can become part of the global supply chains of the Western OEMs. Even in the 1980s, DPSUs like HAL never received any buy-back sub-contracts from ant Soviet aerospace OEM. All such outsourcing sub-contracts came to HAL from either Airbus or Boeing or BAE Systems or Eurocopter. Even today, Russia isn’t buying back anything from India that’s being produced as part of the BrahMos Aerospace JV because Russia will never induct the BrahMos-1 into service. In any case, the BrahMos Aerospace JV was conceived in the late 1990s for sorting out the Rupee-Rouble trading imbalance that had been created between the 1980s & mid-1990s.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANJEEV KUMAR: The devil always lurks within the details, as I’ve always stated. Now let’s discuss it threadbare: Firstly, the Defence Acqusitions Council or DAC NEVER orders any product or solution. The DAC ONLY gives the go-ahead for the product selection process, following which the Defence Producrment Board or DPB initiates the process of inviting bids on either a competitive basis or on nomination basis. Therefore, to claim that orders have already been placed for Dhruv Mk3 for either the IN or ICGS will be a grave fallacy. That’s why always be wary of what the ‘desi’ news-reporters splurge out on a daily basis. Secondly, even the naval version requires a MAD boom & FLIR turret. Therefore, the Dhruv Mk3’s ASW fit as you’ve highlighted doesn’t even come close to the S-70B Seahawk.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To K RAVI: Firstly, if the offer involves a co-development effort, then it automatically means that each of the two parties will have their R & D workshares cut-out & none of the two will share with one another their core technologies. What this means is that while Raytheon will develop & supply a cooled mid-wave IR (MWIR) sensor for a customised version of the FIM-148 Javelin (in fact it has already been developed for the JAGM), the DRDO will develop a thermobaric warhead for the missile, which will be optimised for usage in both the plains & high-altitude areas. The US does not need access to this technology since the US military forces will never be fighting in the kind of high-altitude battlefields that India can be expected to, be it against Pakistan or China. But the US will indeed supply all the know-how reqd to BDL for undertaking final assembly of this India-specific ATGM. The US has also offered to undertake a similar arrangement for an India-specific version of the SMAW-2NE’s modified 83mm Mk80 rocket (containing a thermobaric HEDP warhead). The India-specific version of the Javelin will use a cooled MWIR sensor that can passively lock-on to targets at up to 50% farther range than an uncooled sensor, thus allowing the firing crew greater and safer standoff distance, and less likely to be exposed to counter-fire. As far as weight is concerned, the cooling equipment adds less than 2 lb per weapon. The uncooled sensor of the existing Javelin ATGM is not only less reliable, but its long-LWIR spectrum is only compatible with a dome made of softer materials that vulnerable to abrasion in harsh environments (e.g., deserts) and consequently require replacement more often. The cooled seeker’s MWIR spectrum allows a durable hardened dome, and it is better than LWIR in discerning threats in certain geographic locations or environmental conditions. An uncooled sensor thus brings increased repairs, decreased operational availability, and dangerous vulnerabilities, while a cooled IIR sensor saves lives, lessens fratricide, minimises collateral damage, lowers risk, and protects its firing platforms/crew.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/08/pakistan-ssg-commandos-among-worlds-10-best-forces/

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Mr.RA 9: It seems the MoD has ordered an examination of all contracts placed with Finmeccanica in an attempt to gain some leverage during the forthcoming arbitration proceedings, which RM Arun Jaitley has correctly assessed (being a lawyer) that India will lose, since the Italian court has already closed the case against Finmeccanica. Now, once India loses the case after arbitration (something that will make India bleed financially), then the only sensible choice available is to reinstate the implementation process of the AW-101’s service induction, with Finmeccanica only admitting to some minor fudging of the industrial offsets implementation process & agreeing to pay a symbolic amount as liquidated damages to the MoD, thereby seeing to it that neither side loses any face.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Puh4k7XKQ&list=UUZdjh94PIFy6fDekDtWRRJQ

May both the HJT-36 IJT & Baldy finally RIP together.

Reddy said...

wow, feast today.. so much from prasun, now let me get some tea for myself and let me enjoy reading...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To REDDY: Well....had to clear the backlog that was piling up (LoLz!).

Haryvanam Kiran said...

Dada, saw this video on yahoo of an UFO trailing a plane in Himalayas
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/video/ufo-follows-airplane-over-himalayas-190644791.html

Your comments please on this...

Regards,
Hary

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HARY: You mean this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJTAFXhH2k

Now, watch these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yMFsAJDf0M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIF24EDSXM8

rad said...

HI Prasun
regarding the space for fixing a eo device on the dhruv , can it be put on top of the roof just above the pilots head.I dont think the rotors are going to come so low.This is of course not taking into consideration the air flow disruption etc.
I wonder what made the people who put pak ssg ahead of indian special forces ,australian sas , nz sas , british SBS,etc think.I was told by an army ex paras commando that the indian army has special forces within the para commandos that are nearly equal to the sas but are seldom spoken and written about .Pak jingos may get high reading the report.

Haryvanam Kiran said...

Dada,

What does it imply then? That there are extra terrestrials in Himalayas and are in touch with both govts. or Chinese Black Projects

Regards,
Hary

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

1. 'LUH fitted with co-axial rotor dual ducted fans'. are you trying to say somthing like the ones that were shown in Avatar film? Or like the Kamov of IN? But Rssia has developed something like these i remember seeing a twin titled rotor helo

2. You say 'All SSK-manufacturing OEMs contacted for the P-75I project have proposed VLS plug-ins for accommodating the BrahMos-1' but then again you said earlier that no SSKs have proven VLS, in that case wont it be a risk? Anyone can design torpedo tubes to launch Brahmos mini?

pls clarify

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

SS said...

Hi Prasunji,

http://idrw.org/?p=41517 (Now this is very bad analysis). An excerpt from the article.

"ADA and the Aircraft Research & Design Centre at HAL to redesign Tejas Mark-2 as a genuine MMRCA with the originally conceived canard-delta wing configuration (whose absence has made the Mk-1 incapable of meeting onerous operational requirements, like acceleration and sustained turn rates in dogfights) and having it ready for production by 2019—the dateline for Rafale induction."

Here Mr. Karnad really seems he doesn't understand the basics of Aeronautics (How come absence of canards result in deficiency of acceleration? and even the sustained turn rate). How come he was in a department which used to handle/direct defense acquisitions...

The fact is nobody denies Su-30 Mki is a very capable aircraft and buying more of them will add more punch to the IAF, but the legitimate question to be asked is why we're paying such huge cost for Rafale acquisition (What additional combative edge is provided by Rafale that lacks in our existing inventory of fighters). Your previous conclusion is not putting all your eggs in single basket (Well then IAF can buy them directly from Dassault, why manufacture here at inflated price?). Who is the net gainer in this deal? Will this deal give necessary impetus for Tejas MKII project? (But then Mr. Saraswat is confident of achieving this feat by India alone with little help where ever necessary). Your analysis. VMT

Amit said...

Lastest Update on nagan towed array sonar ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SS: This will provide you with most of the answers:

http://bharatkarnad.com/2014/08/02/ex-vcas-air-marshal-barboras-response-to-why-rafale-is-a-big-mistake/

To AMIT: That project of DRDO was scrapped in 2011 itself.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: 1) What I'm suggesting is not sci-fi, but totally down-to-earth & one can read all about it all here:

http://www.avxaircraft.com/oh-58f-avx-modification/

2) Of course it is extremely risky. No one has proposed any torpedo-launched of BrahMos-1 or even BrahMos-Mini.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

The ‘desi’ band of bandalbaazes are at it again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYz1rdZvhv8

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-missile-pragati-missile-south-korean-port-drdo/1/376037.html

What they haven’t realised is that no exhibitions organiser ever allows ‘live’ munitions to be displayed or exhibited at any expo—period. Furthermore, on-board items like batteries & fire-control mechanisms are also prohibited from being stored on board such missiles on display. Consequently, exhibiting a full-scale replica of any missile does not in any way compromise its design or performance parameters. Furthermore, no ‘live’ missile that is designed to be cannister-encased can ever be shown or displayed outside its cannister (since this will automatically degrade its on-board propellants), UNLESS it is a dummy (inert) round. These ‘desi’ journalists should have done their homework by first verifying matters with the South Korean expo organisers before reaching such alarmist conclusions & running helter-skelter like headless chickens.

Gessler said...

The proficiency of Indian media is pathetic. There should be a national as well as regional-level authority to oversee media practices regarding matters of national security/defence issues atleast.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: Regretably, that will be too little too late. Matters can’t wait for that long. It’s time for me to do a Dabbang-3/Dinanath Batra against these retards by shoving my Trishul/Trident up their big-fat arses amidst chants of 'Har Har Mahadev'! That’s the only cure against such malicious & demoralising propaganda that are baseless & outright mischievous.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

This can only happen in a country where logical reasoning gets thrown into the trash-can & emotional mindsets predominate. Maskharon ka desh ban gaya hai.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Major-generals-Kick-up-a-row-at-Salman-film-show/articleshow/39852324.cms

http://www.punemirror.in/news/india/Maj-generals-Kick-up-a-row-at-show/articleshow/39698985.cms

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HARY: It is believed that there is a species of highly advanced light-blue-skinned human beings that has a network of underground bases in the northwestern part of TAR, according to experienced & credible remote-viewers.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Facinating Reads:

file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/jds_7_4_PKGautam.pdf

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9892-References-to-Tamil-Dynasties-Countries-in-Vaalmiki-Raamaayana

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?1018-References-to-Tamil-Dynasties-Countries-in-Mahabharatha

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9354-The-Medieval-Chola-Empire-and-it-s-relations-with-Malaysia-Indonesia-amp-Thailand-P1

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9381-The-Medieval-Chola-Empire-and-it-s-relations-with-Malaysia-Indonesia-amp-Thailand-P2

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?9386-The-Medieval-Chola-Empire-and-it-s-relations-with-Malaysia-Indonesia-amp-Thailand-P3

SKINS said...

hi prasun ji,
any updates on the semi cryo engian of isro?
Also just wondering if is there any way to contact the aliens in tar so that we may get hold of their advanced technology for good of the mankind?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

More 'desi' trash:

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/russias-strategic-pakistan-play/

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: The only place where the FLIR turret can be installed is on the Dhruv Mk3’s nose section, very similar to what’s on the ‘Rudra’ gunship. Consequently, the MMR will have to be belly-mounted & this in turn will necessitate the the installation of longer tricycle landing gear for ensuring appreciable ground clearance. All this, if undertaken, will involve a ‘deep’ re-design/re-engineering of the Dhruv’s airframe.

As for Indian SOF, they—unlike their Pakistani counterparts—do not crave for publicity & therefore do not publicise their involvements in operations. Hence, interested observers are unable to adequately appreciate the capabilities & track-records of Indian SOF units.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SKINS: If at all the aliens want to establish contact with Earth’s human species, then it will be on their own terms & conditions, & not on what Earth’s human species want or wish for.

Anurag said...

@Prasun da,you really believe that special forces list??!!How come the SSGs made it to there when none of our SFs like Para SF or the SFF or the Parvat Ghataks made it??

What was the criteria for making it to that list??Did those authorities who produced it pitted all of them against each other??How did they score them??

Which kind of terrain and weather they were tested in??

I'm surprised that they placed the Spetsnaz GRU at no 10 yet the GROM was ranked at 4th,heck they even ranked the Frenchis and Aussies ahead than the GRU!!


And SEAL Team 6 my @rse!!Just drop them at 5000 meters against our 9 Para bois or the Parvat Ghataks and see what happens!!Hah,not even them,just pit them against some specialist units from Gorkha rifles or the Ladakh Scouts they will make pork chops out of those ten feet tall SEALs.

And about the SSGs,oh please!!Give it a rest!!Like we haven't seen their "performance" already in our previous wars!!

65 - a whole company lost their lives while trying to sabotage our air fields without achieving anything.

71 - a whole battalion lost its cohesion and scattered into disarray after suffering heavy casualties in the hands of our SFF in the eastern front.

Siachen - a whole brigade of them supported by mortars and heavy artillery couldn't wrest away a single post from our regulars even after years!!And also managed to loose the Bana post against our regulars!!

And they made it to the top ten!!And the SFs from the army,of which regular soldiers had beaten the SSG black and blue countless times couldn't make it to that damn list!!Tells a lot about its "authenticity" or the lack of it.

Gessler said...

" It’s time for me to do a Dabbang-3/Dinanath Batra against these retards by shoving my Trishul/Trident up their big-fat arses amidst chants of 'Har Har Mahadev'! "

I literally ROFLed while reading this part. These are the perks of visiting this blog!!

Anurag said...

Ha Ha,no shit Gessler bhai!!By the way,I'm Omega.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANURAG: Just because I posted that weblink on SOF rankings doesn't automatically mean I believe it by any stretch of imagination or concur with the rankings, kindly rest assured.

Gessler said...

Even a Wikipedia visit will reveal that Para-commandos have a much longer list of prominent, successful operations, both within & behind enemy lines, as also a much wider spectrum of operations, not just in and around India but also in Africa (against RUF rebels) and all...

SSG achieved some limited gains in 1965 war, but their role against Indian military hasn't been much to speak of since then - in 1971 they got spanked, in 1999 they got spanked. Among all the bravado and hype, all they do today is provide VIP protection detail for some politicians/high-ranking officers and carry out some ops against meekly-trained and even meekly-equipped TTP "terrorists". But then the LeT fools our Rashtriya Rifles (RR) forces mow down on a daily basis are much tougher than those TTP fools.

Also, I don't see the point in including Germany's GSG-9 in the list - they are a police unit specialized in hostage rescue, embassy protection, VIP Detail, etc. They are not a military special forces group aimed at carrying out offensive cross border attacks/raids against foreign militaries. And if at all federal police units are to be included, not sure why French GIGN has been left out, and GIGN actually qualifies as an armed forces group.

GROM's inclusion, that too, No.4 ranking appears to be a joke.

Spetsnaz GRU being ranked No.10 is laughable, and they being ranked below punk-assed GROM & SSG is even more laughable.

Seems like a crap research paper. Maybe they have no idea about the training regimes of GRU, their history, operations, experience, etc. Or maybe they have no idea about the equipment of a GRU operative -

http://i.imgur.com/47UAzPf.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4117/81237179.db/0_86e4d_da62268f_orig

http://play.deeps.tv/03X4rzXX1wA9q.jpg

It hurts me when people don't get credit for what they are, what they do - even more when the undeserving get the credit for what they never were, never did!

And Prasun ji, about this part of your comment -

"Hence, interested observers are unable to adequately appreciate the capabilities & track-records of Indian SOF units."

But sir ji, even if one goes by open-source information, how they anyone in their right mind rank GROM and SSG ahead of Para Commandos, OR ATLEAST THE SPETSNAZ GRU ??

The list appears to be made by not an ill-informed person, but by a complete retard.

Gessler said...

Oh hi, Omega007

Anurag said...

And so did I believe.My comment wasn't actually meant to be directed against you but to those morons who produced that shit!!It's good that you brought it up for us to read and I thank you for that dada.Not just because of no addition of any of the Indian SFs but due to the ranking itself!!SSG,GROM,Frenchies,Aussies,Green Berets - all of them ranked above the GRU!!Seriously??!!

The American SFs are just too much over hyped in part due to Hollywood movies depicting them as some super macho out of this world force made of Hulks and Supermans.In reality,they haven't really faced a real disciplined and determined professional army.All they have faced were a bunch of rag tag street rabels!!

Do you think that SSG can be compared to our Parvat Ghataks in terms of training and expertise when it comes to High Altitude Warfare??

Anurag said...

Absolutely my point Gesslar,thanks for your further in depth clarification.

By the way,are you back in PDF or what??

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: Well….they (desi journos) do deserve it, don’t they? At a time when the IAF’s Training Command itself is extremely happy about the smooth transition of its rookie pilots from the PC-7 Mk2 BTT to the Hawk Mk 132 AJT, why the fuck did one of the retards just 48 hours ago narrate another alarming & totally baseless report which claimed that the unavailability of the HJT-36 IJT has “grave implications for the IAF” at a time the IAF “desperately needs to ramp up flight safety”, & that “safer flight just got more expensive & much more elusive”???

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

And GIGN is a police unit, with all its personnel being drawn from the Gendarmerie, not from the armed forces. The same goes for the GSG-9, whose personnel all hail from German Border Police units. The related YouTube weblinks I had posted in the previous thread explain it all.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANURAG: What I can confirm is that unlike Indian SOF units, none of the SOF units from either NATO or former Warsaw Pact member-states are truly proficient in high-altitude warfare as we know it. For instance, no US Army, USAF or US Navy or USMC unit will engage in combat beyond 12,000 feet altitude ASL & their utility helicopter aircrews won’t go beyond 9,000 feet ASL. In comparison, IA & IAF Lama/Cheetah pilots deployed in J & K on a daily basis commence their flights at 10,000 feet ASL & continue through to 20,000 feet ASL.

Gessler said...

@Prasun ji - Yes, but Wiki says GIGN is attached to French Armed Forces.

Anyway, if that list was aimed at ranking military special forces groups, GSG-9 should not have been included.

If at all they were open to organisations attached to federal police units, it is extremely funny not to find GIGN on that list.

The very formula used to make that list is without any definitive shape or form - a retard article, that is.

About the media part, sure ji. The media does indeed deserve a trident up their ass.

@Anurag - I'm at IDF nowadays, dude.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Truly shocking state of affairs within the MoD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQyQgx7bvLw

Bahut hi sharmnaak, dardnaak aur afsausnaak surat-e-haal hai!

Haryvanam Kiran said...

Dada, how long and what is the purpose of these aliens living in the tar region. Is it just to monitor Chinese nuclear installations n disable the active ones from time to time, or any other purpose. When u said light blue skinned is this species the same one which we called Lord Krishna in Dwapara yug?

Regards,
Hary

financeblogger said...

Hi Prasun,

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/07/india-usa-defence-idINKBN0G71OW20140807

If the above report is true, how many of these would India eventually end up buying?

rad said...

HI Prasun
are the fools going to import an ijt trainer!!!? reports say the airforce wants them,. true?.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

my calculation about Brahmos Mini stands correct, do read the answer to second question

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2014/08/07/hope_to_sign_brahmos_mini_agreement_by_year-end_sundhir_kumar_mishr_37247.html

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Gessler said...

Prasun ji, read this -

http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/75/757286_india-france-pakistan-mil-india-clears-mirage-upgrade-deal.html

India pressurized France to drop plans to supply MICA missiles and fire control radars for PAF's JF-17 Block-1 aircraft.

It also states doubts about whether the Chinese FCR on JF-17 Block-1 can fully exploit the range potential of PL-12/SD-10 BVRAAM missile.

Any comments?

Anonymous said...

gesseler is absent in pdf as prasun was not updating this site, so gesseler has no fodder to chew.
same is the case with baswar.

prasun: here is a link about A
gessler: what is A?
prasun: which is not B
gessler: what is B?
prasun: which is not A
gessler: which is not a (not A)?
prasun: B
gessler: what is B?
prasun: which is not A
gessler: what is not a (not A)?
prasun: B
gessler: what is B?

Prasun: OMG, I should stop coming to my blog for the next 2 weeks.

Gessler said...

To Anon @12.37AM - Dude, I was banned there cuz I taught manners to a troll just like you. Now get out of my fucking way.

You are obviously some fool who thinks the world revolves around PDF. You should find an A-hole to fill. Fast.

vishakh said...

Hi

1) Type 216 HDW Submatine is good choice for IN new submarine tender ??

2) Its 4000 Tons and has vertical launch and 85 days of operation.

3) Can it be used also for 6 nuclear subs SSGN required with arihant , tiped with conventional missiles??

RDX said...

The only difference in Indian SOF is equipment,communications systems,Armour,weapons.

Prasun da : Are Indian SOF capable and trained to identify & destroy nukes?

Chethan said...

Hi Prasun,
I am keenly following LCA and IJT projects and it looks like Indian Aerospace Industry has some difficulty to conduct spin trials on the actual aircraft.
Is it because of lack of Infrastructure or lack of Technical Know how?
Thanks,
Chethan

Gessler said...

To Anon @3:53AM - Yes, that is exactly how it is, lol.

@Prasun ji - Sorry If my presence is inviting any trolls to this site. Maybe I should post here under a new alias which no one will recognize.

Satyameva said...

Talking about a different alias. I had the privilege to visit a top notch security firm which can monitor IP addresses and out of curiosity checked this blog to find a number of people with various handles are all using the same terminal. So either many members of the family or neighbourhood are using the same computer - which is very unusual - OR some people have mental health issues and love creating multiple personalities. Can't tell you who they are but some of the regulars especially those who unknowingly follow similar or identical mode of posting their questions! So now that I know I will make sure I skip their entries. Surprisingly this issue escalated in the past year or so especially when a lot of ire went at Subir.

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

this is in addition to the link posted earlier, posted again

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2014/08/07/hope_to_sign_brahmos_mini_agreement_by_year-end_sundhir_kumar_mishr_37247.html

you have yourself sad that once the 20000 ton 190 mw powered follow on SSBN are launched the Arihant class will become SSGN, as such the pontoon fired test of SLCM Brahmos 1 was meant to prove that Brahmos 1 block 1/2/3 can & will be fired in VLS mode from Arihant SSGNs

as for torpedo tube launched Brahmos Mini these will be fired from Scorpene SSKs

probably this is the reason why P75I hasnot moved forward as plans are to merge P75I with SSN and boost no. of subs in P75 to 12

these are my views

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

rdx said...

Hi Prasun da : Just wanted to share a pic of speculative design for Pakfa which i downloaded long back in 2009 from the web.It was a stealth modification of of Su 30 MKi with tailless,delta wing configuration.

How can i upload the same on the blog

Gessler said...

@RDX - Upload the image to a image-hosting site like Imageshack or Imgur and paste the URL here.

Or, just open Google Images, upload the picture from your computer to the icon in the search field and do a Google Image Search.

If you find similar images on the net, you can copy/paste the URL of that image here.

Anonymous said...

does the IN use standard nato hand and arm signals (flight ops.), or do they have their own?

rdx said...

@Gesselar : Thanks !

The image is on the following page.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ace+combat&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSZRpjCxCo1NgEGgIIAwwLELCMpwgaPAo6CAISFP4P7CTqJI8PthXFDIIb1xrfGIUaGiBvnKdU2nR-W_1KydCDt0g7VuhntQSjRTLpB3HFk_1B3d8QwLEI6u_1ggaCgoICAESBMHaViEM,isz:l&sa=X&ei=n7XnU6naEIXn8AWNhYGQCQ&ved=0CB8Q2A4oBA&biw=1280&bih=641#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=WnBCCpxvgs8H2M%253A%3BButLGkfNkqSZmM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwalls4joy.com%252Fwalls%252Fgames%252Fvideo-games-11553-1920x1080.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwalls4joy.com%252Fwallpaper%252F11553-video-games%3B1920%3B1080

CHEPPU said...

Dear Prasun,
I want to ask you a provoking question. Why muslims from across the world are aroused when islamic terrorism is happening in any corner of the world? I've listened to Dr. Zakir Naik who talks big and tells that it is superior to other religions including hinduism; but my conscience tells that as if muslims are born to be cruel. Is education the only solution to islamic countries??? I am shocked bcoz I've fallen victim to a islamic gunda. I don't know why they love commit crimes citing allah.

Anonymous said...

pak fa from video game.... alas..

rahul said...

Sir, I want to know any ATGM SPIKE and JAVELIN. Whenever there is discussion abt at gm then only these 2 names come into discussion for Indian army. Does India has no other ATGM to look for?
2. I just read the Prahaar missile episode in South Korea. But I felt it was more like UPA govt. Bashing. If there was really any isuse like mentioned in report them don't you think that more than UPA govt it was the responsibility of the concerned authority which I think was DRDO , should be held responsible. And in that case why these journos always make sensation out of nothing.
Just to add something about the so called journalists in India I would like to recall an incident occurred about 10 yes ago when some viewer gave a video clip of a man sitting on front seat of a car adjacent to driver seat and without any driver the car was being driven and the only passenger in car sitting on front seat was reading newspaper. And this particular video was played on particular new channel for almost 12 hours along with panel discussion and many theories were floated by channel including ridiculous one like some alien must be driving the car and he must be invisible. The all bubble burst when the passenger of the car told that he himself was driving the car by using modified clutches and brakes as used in driving schools.
All I mean is most of Indian journos especially TV , comes to conclusion even before investigating.

sujoymajumdar said...

Prasun Da ,
You are blogging after quite sometime . Hope you are doing great .

I had 2 questions related to the downing of the MH-17 .
The US maintain satellite surveillance over most countries . Especially in the Donetsk region since the breakout of hostilities it is fair to assume that the US had been monitoring the situation 24/7 .

(1) Why is it then that the US has NOT published any satellite images of the Russian separatist using the BUK to shoot down the MH-17 ?
(2) Is it therefore true that it was Ukraine trying to shoot down Putin’s IL-96 when he was returning from the BRICS summit and since the color patter of the Malaysian airline and Putin’s aircraft was the same they mistook the MH-17 for the IL-96 ?

http://www.journalstreet.com/2014/08/was-putin-targeted-for-mid-air.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Thanks,

Sujoy

AMAR said...

Prasun JI ,

Can you plz shed some light on this .

From this IDSA article it seems the BJP has taken a leaf out of the hat of Congress & Left . Right from the 70s onwards the Congress & Left allowed large scale immigration of Muslims from Bangladesh into West Bengal & Assam . This illegal Muslim votebank allowed the Congress & Left to win innumerable elections.

http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/illegalmigrationfromBangladesh_akumar_080814.html

Is the BJP trying to win in West Bengal and North East now by allowing more HINDU immigrants from Bangladesh to come in and settle in West Bengal & North East ?

Will the arrival of the HINDU migrants into West Bengal/North East add value to the economies of these states ?

Dhanyabad

Gessler said...

@RDX - Yes, I've seen that image. However, for a shorter URL code, you can fully open a picture among the search results, right-click on the pic, select "Copy Image URL" and then right-click on this blog's comment section, select paste and voila! The particular image link will be available for everyone!

Gessler said...

Sir, is there any possibility of Indian Navy (or any other Indian armed service) acquiring the CH-53 Stallion variants in future, in any role?

rdx said...

@Gesseler : Thanks!

@ Anonymous : This done is from a game , but it's about design,thought process.

Let me share one observation, in 1999 I bought my first PC a compaq presario desktop, with it came a video game named " Recoil ". The game started with a plane which used to transport a tank.This plane had two jet engines at the edge of the wings, which could move for vertical take off and horizontal movement.

This is may be an imagination but V 22 osprey must have come out from such kinda imagination and i believe somebody will add jet engines instead on propellers one day.

prateek said...

sir ,
have a look at this pic

http://defence.pk/attachments/army-jpg.42985/

i have been observing this black vest the indian soldiers are wearing in this pic since a few months.
Do you have any idea whether it's an Improved combat kit or a BPJ?
On several occasions i have noticed soldiers wearing it above their BPJs & on other occasions i have seen this vest having armoured plates at front & back.

this jacket doesn't seem to provide enough protection to chest & none to the neck.
the design looks horrible for a bpj.
are we compromising on our soldiers security ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://news.oneindia.in/india/indian-missiles-sent-to-israel-for-trials-stuck-in-south-korea-since-1-month-1500529.html

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HARY: It’s not just in TAR. There are such confirmed underground bases in the US, Zimbabwe, Italy and Australia. There are also undersea bases off California, in the Adriatic Sea & in the Pacific Ocean. The light blue skin pigmentation is pf the same type as that of Vishnu, Krishna, Ram & Kartik.

To FINANCEBLOGGER: Most untrue. Instead, the proposal was for acquiring more CH-47Fs beyond the initial reqmt for 15 units. The total desirable reqmt is for 60 units, but for now the order is likely to be increased from 15 to 40 in successive tranches.

To RAD: All that the IAF is now saying is that it is looking at alternate options, meaning it will be seen to be looking around & after a while the whole search will die down when the IAF will say “Eureka! We don’t need any IJT anymore because our rookie pilots’ operational conversion track record has been exemplary when using just the PC-7 Mk2s & Hawk Mk.132s”.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: BrahMos-Mini is strictly for air-launch. No one can design or make a torpedo tube for BrahMos-Mini unless missile itself has been thoroughly tested out—a process that will take at least another 4 years. And the submarine-based VLS system for BrahMos-1 has been developed by L & T. This very system will be on the Arihant. SKs can’t accept such a VLS since the SSKs are much lighter & will therefore face lots of problems in terms of buoyancy levels. And unless someone first test-fires such a missile from a SSK-equipped with VLS, the IN will never accept such a modification. Right now, none one in the world is willing to foot the bill for developing such a VLS for SSKs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: That’s precisely why one should never trust Wikipedia or Wikileaks on any issue, be it about GIGN or any other topic. And why should any country give a damn about India’s pressures? The French sold Pakistan Agosta 90B SSKs & SUBTICS CMS for the two Agosta 70B SSKs, plus EC-555 Fennec LUHs. The USSR & Russia sold Mi-171s throughout the 1980s & 1990s. The USSR & Russia sold Su-27SKs & Su-30MKKs, plus S-300PMU/PMU-1/PMU-2/PMU-3, Tor-M1 & now the S-400, along with Type 877EKM & Type 636 SSKs & four Type 956E DDGs to China since 1989. France continues to sell EMT-Pielstick diesel engines for the PLAN’s warships & submarines.

Pakistan never desired the THALES RDX MMR or MICA BVRAAMs. The PAF since the early 1990s had zeroed in on the Grifo family of MMRs from FIAR (now Selex-Galileo), starting with the Grifo-7 for the Chengdu F-7Ps & F-7PGs, followed by the Grifo-M for the upgraded Mirage-3Ps. A version of the Grifo-7 is now on the Babur’s ASCM version, while the Grifo-M was reverse-engineered into the KLJ-7 MMR for the J-8IIM, J-10 & the JF-17. CH-53K Stallion will be far too expensive, just like the AW-101’s Merlin version.

And you should not lose your cool or get provoked or let your BP-levels rise just because someone is pulling your leg. If you do, then you’ve only lost the argument. Instead, reply to sarcasm with sarcasm for as much as you want & stand your ground.

To Anon@12.37AM: LoLzzzzzzzzzz!!!

To VISHAKH: 1) It is still only a paper design & not yet proven in service. The IN wants a proven design. 3) Germany will never allow that.

To RDX: Not quite. In these areas too, the Indian SOF units are second to none. The units are not mandated to destroy WMDs. That’s not a real design photo of PAK-FA, but is CGI just for a video game. But Sukhoi OKB did design a single-engined, single-tail & tandem-seat version of the Su-27/30 in the late 1980s & called Su-47. It was meant to serve as a supersonic LIFT but it ultimately lost the competition to the Yak-130. I saw a scale-model of the Su-47 way back in December 1991 & after that it was never shown at any other expo.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To CHETHAN: Nothing to do with spin-trials. The HJT-36 IJT has fundamental design flaws & its AL-55I turbofan has a TTSL of only 300 hours—a figure that no self-respecting air force will appreciate. As for the Tejas Mk1, it is just like the SARAS from NAL, i.e. an aircraft designed by, for & of scientists. Hence it cannot qualify as an operational MRCA. That’s why it is now being re-engineered & re-designed into a Tejas Mk2 variant.

To Anon@9.01PM: As all IN air warriors have been trained since the inception of the IN’s Fleet Air Arm by the Royal Navy & later the US Navy, I’m sure you can draw the necessary inferences.

To CHEPPU: Except for the Pakistanis, no one is aroused. And that’s bercause within the Muslim Ummah, only Pakistani tends to display the ‘zaroorat se ziada thekedari’ (biting more than one can chew) syndrome & tha’s exactly why after OBL was bumped off in Abbotabad, it was only in Pakistan that mourned the death of OBL were taken out. Nor is there anything called Islamic Terrorism. Today, the Sunni Saudis, Jordanians & Egyptians are silent about what’s going on in Gaza because they too support Israel’s efforts to decapitate both Hamas & Hezbollah—Shia Iran’s proxies. Inside India today, there’s insecurity within Indian Muslims because for the very first time since the advent of Islam, Muslims worldwide (except in Central Asia) are being polarised due to the global scale of the Sunni-Shia divide.

To RAHUL: 1) Nope. The choice is clearly in favour of an India-specific version of the Javelin. 2) Of course it is the DRDO’s fault. But journalism in India pertaining to national security has become a great circus. Today, channels like TIMES NOW & HEADLINES TODAY tend to excel in the art of HYPER-VENTILATING CHOOTIAGIRI!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Of course there’s documentary evidence. It’s here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/01/the-buk-that-could-an-open-source-odyssey.html

2) Yes, it’s true indeed.

To PRATEEK: The black dress is not a BPJ. Instead, it is used for carrying attached ammo reload rounds & hand-grenades.

To AMAR: There’s no proof whatsoever that large-scale illegal human migration has been taking place from Bangladesh since 1972. All that one hears on this issue are guesstimates & speculation. Not one figure thus far has stood the test of verification in any court of law or tribunal. Those that had entered India from Bangladesh were mostly in transit while on their way to Pakistan & quite a few were shot down by the BSF & Indian Army while they were trying to cross over through the LoC.

rahul said...

Hello Sir,
There are some news floating that the Malaysian aircraft shot down in Ukraine might be shot by a A2A missile. Is there any confirmation?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

it is for this reason i provided you with the link where the new Brahmos chief (Q2) says he plans to develop torpedo tube launched Brahmos mini, after the trails are over these can be fitted to SSKs during mid life upgrades

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2014/08/07/hope_to_sign_brahmos_mini_agreement_by_year-end_sundhir_kumar_mishr_37247.html

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

lachit said...

I am happy that u mentioned lachit borphukan as one of the greats.
he was a great proponent of naval warfare and a great guerrilla fighter.
there are tales of how he used psychological warfare (kamrup was then known for sorcery) to create confusion among the Mughals.
his soldiers were mostly ordinary citizens whom he effectively turned into fighting units.
the way he died fighting is totally inspiring.
forget rest of India ,Assamease people have forgotten him , assholes.

me and my friends joke that for us(Indians) hell is going to be like pure cakewalk after all the shit we have to endure.

sujoymajumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

Sorry for sounding dense but I could not understand your answer .

The link that you have provided states that the rebels shot down the MH-17 .

And then you said that yes , the Ukranians wanted to shoot Putin's plane .

Can you please explain this part .

Is it the Ukranian government (or supporters of the Ukranian Govt)that wanted to shoot Putin's plane and shot the MH-17 in the process ?

Thanks,
Sujoy

SOUBHAGYA said...

Dear Prasun,
You are telling "As for the Tejas Mk1, it is just like the SARAS from NAL, i.e. an aircraft designed by, for & of scientists." But once u told me that it is potent enough to tackle JF - 17, J - 10 aircraft? Then what is the utility of 40 Tejas Mk 1 in IAF??? Will they just showcase in an IAF base??? What the hell!!!

rad said...

hi prasun
If the whole world knows that the grifo has been copied by china thanks to pakistan then why is every one keen to supply pakistan when they know that it will be reversed engineered ,f-16 wing plan form, mica magic missile ,oerlikon guns and many more.,The secrets of the agosta submarine will be def shared . France seems unpeturbed by this . even germany seems to e keen on supplying subs to china via pakistan!!!
Is the Amur sub good, is it worth while buying it, just to fit the brahmos missile?. They seem to have sold it to the chimks as well.
Please [post a pic of the su-47

Messenger said...

what difference does it make if mh17 is down by a a2a or some other missile and what sense it make how it travelled? these things are preposterous and from our point of view they do not have any value as lives are lost.

can any person with meaningful mind can ever say aircraft livery resembles and it caused the confusion? can you identify the livery of an aircraft flying at 10 km height above your head?

I simply do not understand why people come and play and ask funny silly questions on defence related matters?

this is fcuking serious business.. not a childs play as many morons on this forum think and take prasun for granted..

S Nair said...

Hi Prasunda,

Off Track and NOM.
...... The light blue skin pigmentation is pf the same type as that of Vishnu, Krishna, Ram & Kartik.//

Do you believe these old fantasy stories ? I mean concept called God.

Thanks

vishakh said...

Hi

Australia is openly persuing Soryu class submarine which fits indian context very nicely with long endurance and big ocean going design at great depth.
1) Is IN not considering submarine from Japan ?? Can't this be taken up at Modi visit??

2) WHich submarine fits IN bill S-80 is facing tech difficulty and design , Russian subs are not fit (LADA sub) , U214 IN may not be interested. Which submarine then is sure winner for IN .

Anonymous said...

@ Messenger

R.I.P

RD said...

Prasunda,
Maybe I am wrong, but what I think is that India is heavily relying on its nuclear arsenal as defence power just like Pakistan. Till now no urgency has been shown in procuring artillery,submarine,choppers or fighter jets. This is diminishing the conventional warfare capability of the country & it will be a difficult situation during an event of localised conventional war like that of Kargil.

Messenger said...

@ anon August 12, 2014 at 9:33 PM

your comments speak a lot about you and your upbringing..
Yes we can not expect more than this..

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

How many Offshore Patrol Vessels ( OPVs ) and Anti SubMarine Warfare (ASW) patrol ships does the Indian Navy/ Coast Guard need ?

Some sections of the media are reporting that 5 new 95 meter OPVs are being built by Pipavav Shipyard and there are plans to acquire 16 more 55 meters ASW patrol ships .

Regards,
Vikram

buddha said...

sir I know you are very busy man
but I humbly request you to write a specific article on alien and their connection with earth and human technological advancement .
This is an humble prayer to you
Anticipating your kind perusal

Mr. RA 9 said...

Some glimpses from the sunni caliphate:

https://news.vice.com/show/the-islamic-state

Anonymous said...

islamic caliphate, my foot... when push comes to shove a mushroom cloud would engulf all believes..

as prasun was saying is this alien presence due to paki, indian and chini nuclear stockpile in himalayas?

SUVO said...

Prasun da,
DCNS offer india 2 Scorpene submarine & deliver them in a time period that coincides with the induction of the 1st of the original 6 Scorpene being built at present in MDL.
If India accept this offer?

Some Navy officials want Amur because of the delay of Project-75.But in my point of view,if only Russian submarine needed,then Kilo-636MV,which used by Vietnam navy is the best choice.What is your point of view in this context.

Any good news about Bharat-52 gun? or MOD till overlooks it?
Bharat Forge 155/39 ULH uses the Mandus Soft Recoil technology on a titanium gun carriage, with a 39 cal barrel created with Noricum technology. If delivered, its performance would be greater than M777, with 50%-70% greater carriage life.It is the best option against the over-priced M777.What is your opinion?

vishakh said...

Hi

Russsian Black Sea devision just inducted Advanced version of Kilo class 636.5.Please suggest what improvement it has and wether taking this or Scorpenene as fill gap measure it better.

2) Is Indian navy considering Sweden Visby platform for NG ASW boats or just improvements over current 4 boats ??

Jaidev said...

Prasunda,

The AVX aircraft is out of JMR helicopter competition now. Seems its ideas would remain in theory only. In comparison SB-1 Defiant has one with V-280 Valor.

What do you say? Shall India join with Sikorsky? As it is, Tata is building S-92 parts here, it won't be difficult.

In addition, what is your opinion on Maitri missile revert? Was the missile only for IAF or other services don't count? India does need a QR-SAM if no MAitri.

K.RAVI said...

Hi Prasun ,

1)According to this report from Times of India published earlier this week Japanese ate Indian PoWs, used them as live targets in WWII . Is it true ?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Japanese-ate-Indian-PoWs-used-them-as-live-targets-in-WWII/articleshow/40017577.cms


2) The test of the Akash has been successful and IAF it seems is happy with it . Therefore will the tender for short-range surface-to-air missile that was released a couple of years ago be cancelled ?
Thanks,
K.RAVI

Ratan said...

Prasun,

About this Akash missile test, why is it that TOI reports that missile test was successful. Whereas New Indian Express reports it was a failure..

Which one is believable?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAHUL: The truth will be known only after the wreckage of MH-17 is examined & an exhaustive forensic analysis is done.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: Firstly, what the new CEO said was that a torpedo tube ‘CAN’ be developed for housing the BrahMos-Mini. Not ‘Will’ or ‘is being developed’. Can or could do not mean anything concrete at all. Even you & I can claim that together we will build a ‘stargate’ for inter-dimensional travel. Secondly, incorporating larger torpedo tubes for firing say 8 BrahMos-Minis from a SSK will drastically reduce the SSK’s normal load of 18 533mm-diameter torpedoes. Thirdly, if the BrahMos-Mini is to be used as a LACM, then the SK will be prevented from carrying out its main role as a hunter-killer SSK. Fourthly, if BrahMos-Mini is meant to be used as an ASCM, then how will over-the-horizon targetting cues be obtained by a SSK whose search radar can’t look beyond the horizon? Also then, what’s the use of having on-board a 290km-range ASCM? Fifthly, if an indigenous & customised torpedo tube i8s to be developed, on what SSK will it be tested? Neither the IN nor the Russian navy has any spare or decommissioned SSKs that can be used as underwater testbeds. Therefore, lastly, using 290km-range supersonic missiles as either submarine-launched ASCM or LACM will never make any sense for any navy simply because A) OTH targetting cues will never be available, & B) given the choice between a 290km-range supersonic LACM & a 800km-range subsonic LACM, any navy will always without fail opt for the latter. And that’s precisely the reason why the IN, if it opts for additional Scorpene SSKs equipped with AIP, will most definitely opt for ASCMs like the SM-39 or UGM-84, & LACMs like the 3M14E Klub or Nirbhay—all of which can be fired from 533mm torpedo tubes without any modification. BrahMos-Mini will thus be just an air-launched supersonic ASCM/LACM.

To LACHIT: I too am greatly surprised by the absence of any books written by Indian authors abiut Lachit Borphukan. It distresses me greatly. By the way, do browse through these:

http://www.hinduhistory.info/lachit-borphukan-a-hindu-warrior-par-excellence/

http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/11/24/lachit-barphukan/

http://ourdharma.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/the-army-general-who-fought-a-battle-even-he-was-ill-lachit-borphukan/

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/reclaiming-india/an-uneven-battle-the-heroes-of-haldighati-and-forgetting-history/

http://www.ukessays.com/essays/history/chapter-iv-shivaji-the-great-guerrilla-history-essay.php

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-business/complex-dialectics-of-hinduism/article4824867.ece

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: The confusion stems from the absence of any firm data arising from the forensic analysis of the debris. We will just have to see what the conclusions of the international investigation are. But what seems evident is that there was confusion when it came to visually identifying the airborne target since both the Russian Presidential IL-96-300 & MH-17 sported similar liveries—meaning the decision to shoot down the target was based on visual identification—something that cannot be done by any ground-based SAM Battery by only by a platform that’s airborne & is approaching its target from above & behind.

To SOUBHAGYA: You’re getting confused between two separate issues: combat parameters & ground support logistics. When it comes to the former (combat parameters) the Tejas Mk1 enjoys a distinct edge. But when it comes to the latter, the JF-17 is a better workhorse since it isn’t as sophisticated & therefore requires less MRO support & also because it has to operate from only one air base (in Peshawar). The Tejas Mk1 requires a far greater amount of 1st-line & 2nd-line automatic test equipment for fault diagnostics. Now, this would be fine if the aircraft were just operating out of one air base. But when the Tejas Mk1 is required to operate from at least nine different air bases, then there should be at least four air bases equipped with 1st-line & 2nd-line automatic test equipment—a cost prohibitive option. Furthermore, the Tejas Mk1, unlike the Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG & Mirage 2000UPG does not come with a HUMS, & without HUMS predictive maintenance practices cannot be implemented. All these shortcomings will therefore be overcome with the development of Tejas Mk2.

To RAD: If the Amur 950 or Amur 1650 SSKs were good, then why did the Russian Navy reject them & why were such SSKs not fitted with VLS cells? Why was BrahMos-1 or Yakhont never test-fired from them? The Su-47 of 1991 later on morphed into the S-54/S-55 & S-56 designs. Just Google S-54 & you will be able to see the images.

To MESSENGER: Those were genuine, well-meaning queries & I’ve explained above why.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To S NAIR: What we mortal humans refer to as ‘God’ is in fact referred to as ‘creation energy/force’ by both the aliens & also in Vedic literature as explained by Swami Vivekananda. Albert Einstein too had described as part of his ‘Droplet Theory’ in which he stated that the very same energy/force that exists within the atom is also the very same force that also binds together the entire cosmos. Therefore there’s a scientific explanation for this all-pervasive universal force/energy, but so far no comprehensive definition has emerged so far. Then there are the Akashik Texts, about which I will post the weblinks a little later.

To VISHAKH: So far, Japan has not authorised the export of fully-built platforms or their licenced-production ToT to any country. Australian studies & analyses are therefore purely academic at this stage & have no practical value. As for the IN’s reqmt for additional SSKs, the MDL-built Scorpene SSK remains the best bet since it will also be the cheapest to acquire & quickest to be delivered.

To RD: Not true. The shortages of men & material pertain only to a warfghting scenario that calls for an overwhelming response, i.e. total mobilisation. When it comes to fighting a limited high-intensity war lasting no more than 3 weeks along a single front, there are more than adequate stocks of ammunition & weapons platforms.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Ideally, the ICGS should have 36 OPVs while the IN should have 12 NOPVs. As for coastal ASW patrol vessels, the only stated reqmt for the IN is for 16 vessels. Pipavav is building only NOPVs, not OPVs. Meanwhile, do read this:

http://www.livescience.com/47168-navy-composites-key-to-stealth.html

To BUDDHA: I have already provided several weblinks in the past just to satisfy one’s thirst for the kind of data that you’ve asked for. I cannot go beyond that due to time constraints. Here’s one more for you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/alien-shadow-moon-nasa-google-moon_n_5674798.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

To Mr.RA 9: Interesting insights:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sunil-sharan/four-currents-shaping-the_b_5666282.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101916826?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cheadline%7Cstory&par=yahoo&doc=101916826#.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-atamian/as-conflict-escalates-ilham-aliyev_b_5663964.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUVO: Why award such a contract to DCNS when enough money has been invested in teaching MDL’s workforce to do the same job? In the IN, the majority of submariners today prefer serving on board SSKs of Western design. The Vietnamese too will learn this lesson the hard way, rest assured. There’s no need for the LW-155/M-777 IF the OFB Jabalpur can deliver the initial 114 Dhanush on-time & if TATA Motors’ tow-trucks are acquired for such howitzers.

To VISHAKH: They have the same improvements as those incorporated on board the IN’s upgraded Type 877EKMs. But the Scorpene SSK in eons ahead of the Type 636 or Amur 1650 in terms of technology. For SDW vessels, various options from Kockums, DCNS & TKMS are on offer.

To JAIDEV: All the more reason why HAL ought to team up with AVX Aircraft for co-developing a high-altitude version of the LAH-developed LUH/RSH, since the US will now not object to such tie-ups. The Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone will be an ideal 12-tonne NMRH for the IN’s Project 15, Project 15A & Project 15B DDGs. Maitri SR-SAM was long ago discarded as an option by both the IAF & IA, & recently by the IN as well. Call it QR-SAM or SL-QRM or CIWS, all these roles can today easily be performed by the Barak-2, which can intercept airborne targets at low, medium & high altitudes at a distance of as less as 9km. Oly when IIR-guided SR-SAMs are reqd for intercepting subsonic LACMs will missiles like the Python-5/SpyDer-SR be required to be deployed.

To K RAVI: Of course it is true & has been extensively documented.

To K RAVI & RATAN: What must be borne in mind is that all user-trials of the Akash-1 for the IAF have been conducted in Balasore, while those for the Army too have been conducted there. These user-trials by no means conclusively prove that the Akash-1 will be equally effective when fired in the deserts of Rajasthan or in the monsoon forests of the North East or in sub-zero temperatures in J & K. Till to date, not a single Akash-1 SAM has been test-fired from locations that closely replicate the wartime deployment locations. And when the IAF did take a Rohini 3D-CAR out to Ladakh in 2011, it discovered that this radar performed erratically under sub-zero temperatures. Therefore, there’s a need for the Rajendra BLR, the Rohini 3D-CAR, the Battery Surveillance Radar & the Akash-1 TELs to be subjected to test-firings from various firing ranges in Rajasthan, Ladakh, Sikkim, Mizoram, Nagaland & Arunachal Pradesh before a thumbs-up can be given for mass-production.

rad said...

HIPrasun
why cant we bid for the UAE mirages , good idea?.
your knowledge about the Indian scriptures and history is outstanding as you seem to have read a lot.
The Israeli aesa radar mounted aerostats will be a good option for a cruise missile defense wherin the surveillance and the targeting can be done by one radar unlike the american system. Have we ordered more of them , there were reports that they did not stand up to the harsh conditions thought he radar was good? please give some info on them

Anonymous said...

Prasun,
whats u r idea of celebrating Independence day?

for me it's a loss of 5 Billion USD GDP on aug 15.

also it reminds me about our apathy towards state for the last 1000 years.

and how much money is being spent for this day every year, during preparations, and on that day? it would be in total of 15 working days for most of the departments..

In addition to this, millions of school children, govt employees, police personnel at village, mandal, district, state and central level costing the exchequer too much money which can be used to bill world class institutes for each year..

altogether it may be costing us nearly 5 billion USD production loss and some 2000 crore bills at various levels.

your views pls..

sujoymajumdar said...

Prasun Da ,

Shouldn’t INDIA also get involved in this joint UCAV project with France & UK ? Unless of course US allows India to join the X-47B project .

http://aviationweek.com/defense/france-uk-move-toward-joint-ucav
France & UK will be happy to get another partner .

INDIA’s indigenous UCAV is nowhere in sight , including drawing boards , so India will also benefit from getting hold of a technology that will inevitably define air warfare .

The money that is being wasted in LCA ( MK 1 & MK 2) can very easily be diverted to this project .

Thanks,
Sujoy

vishakh said...

Hi

What is status NVD for Army infantary :

1) Tata has tieup will new GOV look for sourcing 3_ Gen devices??
2) Is BEL also looking for tieup for 3+Gen devices ??

Can we expect big anouncement regarding this ??

3) Are the trial for Assault rifles completed for 45k and 60K ??which is best assualt rifle for IA among all bretta , colt etc ??

4) When is DRDO assault rifle going for testing?? Has DRDO solved issue for realiability in new gun??

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Will answer the outstanding queries in the next thread later today.