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Monday, November 2, 2015

Striving For An Achievable Force-Mix

Since the 1950s the Indian Air Force (IAF) has been striving for attaining a balanced force-mix of combat aircraft platforms, be they deep-penetration strike aircraft (DPSA), medium multi-role combat aircraft (M-MRCA), dedicated tactical interdiction/tactical air-support aircraft, air superiority combat aircraft, defensive counter-air combat aircraft, and light MRCAs (L-MRCA).
Consequently, in the DPSA category, the IAF took delivery of 104 English Electric Canberras between 1957 and 1970, and they were eventually replaced by 196 BAE Systems/SEPECAT Jaguar IS (built between 1982 and 2008, with each of them qualified for carrying 4.5 tonnes of offensive payload.
In the M-MRCA category, 140 single-seat Hawker Hunter FGA.9s and 20 T.66 two-seat operational conversion trainers were procured between 1957 and 1962 (these were decommissioned in 1996), followed by 59 Dassault Aviation-supplied Mirage 2000H/THs in the mid-1980s and mid-1990s (of these, 51 are now being upgraded). 
When it came to L-MRCAs, 110 Mystère IVs were acquired  since 1957 (they were decommissioned by  1973), followed by 205 Type-77 MiG-21FLs (procured between March 1965 and 1972 and decommissioned by 2006), 158 Type-88 MiG-21Ms between February 1973 and November 1981 (decommissioned by 2012), and 295 Type-75 MiG-21bis between 1977 and 1984, of which 125 were upgraded to MiG-21 Bison standard in the late 1990s and these will be decommissioned by 2017.
The IAF had also acquired, purely for defensive counter-air operations, 243 Folland Gnats and 89 Ajeets since the early 1960s, whereas for offensive air superiority operations, 46 MiG-23MFs served the IAF between July 4, 1983 and March 20, 2007 (logging nearly 32,581 flying hours), and these were augmented by 80 MiG-29B-12s (procured between October 1987 and 1995), of which 63 are now being upgraded to serve as M-MRCAs.
It is, however, in the dedicated tactical interdiction/tactical air-support aircraft category that the IAF went in for ambitious expansion since 1968, starting with the procurement of 220 Sukhoi Su-7BMKs (each qualified for hauling 3 tonnes of offensive payload), followed by 95 MiG-23BNs (serving between January 1980 and March 6, 2009 and having flown more than 154,000 hours) each carrying a 3-tonne weapons payload, and 175 MiG-27Ms (165 of which were licence-built by HAL between 1986 and 1992) each of which could haul a 3-tonne weapons payload. Of these, 40 were upgraded to MiG-27UPG standard—the upgrade work involving only the mission avionics suite.
From the above, it becomes evident that the IAF’s continuously evolving force-structure exercises (in response to the evolving threat perceptions) have resulted in an operational fleet inventory comprising about 180 DPSAs, about 180 air-superiority aircraft for both defensive counter-air and offensive air-escort missions, about 160 M-MRCAs, about 270 tactical interdiction/tactical air-support aircraft, and some 250 L-MRCAs. In other words, a total of about 1,040 combat aircraft (inclusive of war reserves) distributed among the authorised 42 squadrons (of these 12 being dedicated for operations along India’s northern frontiers in a two-front wear scenario). This was the situation till 1991.
Since the mid-1990s, a number of factors led to the IAF re-examining its force-mix of combat aircraft. Firstly, the advent of open-architecture avionics suites, higher-thrust turbofans and standoff precision-guided munitions (PGM) meant that existing (like the MiG-29 and Mirage 2000) and future M-MRCAs (like the Rafale, which can haul 9.2 tonnes of offensive payload) could easily take on the roles of deep interdiction and tactical interdiction and offensive air-escort, thereby doing away with the need for role-specific combat aircraft like the Jaguar IS, MiG-23MF and MiG-23BN/MiG-27M. Secondly, L-MRCAs, both existing and future acquisitions, would also stand to gain from such technological advances. 
Thirdly, the ‘game-changing’ availability of heavy MRCAs like the Su-30MKI and AEW & CS platforms meant that in the initial 96 hours of an offensive air campaign, the IAF would have the luxury of having its M-MRCAs escorted by H-MRCAs (with airborne battlespace management being provided by AEW & CS platforms) deep inside hostile airspace, and after air supremacy is achieved, the H-MRCAs, operating from medium-altitudes, too would serve as DPSAs and tactical air-interdictors. The L-MRCAs would, from Day 1 of hostilities, be assigned for both tactical air-support and defensive counter-air missions. 
So, the ideal 42 squadron force-mix—when dealing with a limited but high-intensity, sequential two-front war scenario—ought to comprise 30% of the combat aircraft being composed of H-MRCAs, 35% of M-MRCAs and the remaining 35% of L-MRCAs—these being backed up by no less than 12 AEW & CS platforms and 28 aerial refuelling tankers.    
In reality, however, matters started worsening from the early 1990s itself. While the Indian Army, due to political reasons, was prevented from implementing its Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan (which had called for the introduction of up to 2,900 155mm towed and self-propelled howitzers) and was also denied the opportunity to procure attack helicopters (despite a firm commitment in writing from the MoD way back in 1986 that acknowledged the Armys need for such hardware), the IAF was hit with a double whammy: unavailability of the promised L-MRCA—the Tejas Mk1, and the sudden reason by the Russian Federation to decommission all members of its MiG-23BN and MiG-27M families and instead use the Su-25 family of close air-support aircraft as tactical interdictors as well.      
The twin-engined, subsonic Su-25’s R & D began in early 1968, and its maiden flight took place on February 22, 1975 (the single-engined, supersonic MiG-27M took to the skies for the first time in 1974). But Pavel Puthakov,  the Soviet Air Force Commander-in-Chief from 1969 till 1984, was more in favour of inducting supersonic tactical air-support aircraft in service and therefore chose not to order the Su-25. It was only in mid-1976, when Poland asked Russia if it could licence-build the Su-25, that Leonid Brezhnev, the then General Secretary of the Central Committee of the USSR’s Communist Party (from 1964 until his death in 1982) became aware of the Su-25’s existence and ordered its service-induction. The first production-series Su-25 was rolled out in 1979 and during its nine years of combat in Afghanistan, only 23 were lost out of 60,000 flights. 
It was also discovered then that compared to the MiG-27M, the Su-25, armed with a 4-tonne weapons payload, was five times better in terms of viability. No wonder Russia continues to swear by the Su-25 and has even developed a follow-on, upgraded version known as the Su-39, this meaning that the Su-25 family will remain in service till 2030 at best. One can therefore only guess why the Soviets never offered the Su-25 for export to India, and instead sold only the MiG-23BNs and MiG-27Ms, and why India, unlike Poland, never even asked the then-USSR to licence-build the Su-25 instead of the MiG-27M.
Due to the above-mentioned reasons, the IAF’s force-mix is quite lop-sided today and will remain so till the end of this decade, since close to 40% of IAF’s authorised combat force will be comprised of Su-30MKI H-MRCAs, 20% of upgraded M-MRCAs like the Mirage 2000Is and MiG-29UPG, and the rest with platforms like the Jaguar IS, MiG-27UPGs, MiG-27Ms and MiG-21 Bisons. Squadron-wise, this breaks down into 5 with Jaguar IS/IM, up to 13 with Su-30MKIs, 3 with MiG-29UPGs and another 3 with Mirage 2000Is, 4 with MiG-27UPGs and MiG-27Ms, and 11 with MiG-21 Bisons. The shortfalls are particularly critical in the tactical interdiction and close air-support arenas.
Squadron-wise, this breaks down into 5 with Jaguar IS/IM, up to 13 with Su-30MKIs, 3 with MiG-29UPGs and another 3 with Mirage 2000Is, 4 with MiG-27UPGs and MiG-27Ms, and 11 with MiG-21 Bisons. The shortfalls are particularly critical in the tactical interdiction and close air-support arenas.  
The obvious solutions include the procurement of six squadrons (189 units) of Rafales between 2017 and 2032 and use them as DPSAs, upgrade some 150 of the existing Jaguar IS DPSAs into tactical interdiction/close air-support platforms between now and 2020, convert some 60 of the 132 Hawk Mk.132 advanced jet trainers into the ‘Combat Hawk’ configuration to serve as close air-support platforms by 2019, and procure the IAF-specific version of the LCA (Navy) Mk.1 from 2017 onward to serve as the L-MRCA. 
This will ensure that by 2020 the IAF has some 350 Su-30MKI H-MRCAs, close to 50 Rafale M-MRCAs serving as DPSAs, and close to 210 aircraft for tactical interdiction and close air-support. However, the US$4 billion question still remains: how exactly should one go about the process of procuring the required 250 fourth-generation L-MRCAs comprising a mix of the IAF-specific version of the LCA (Navy) Mk.1 and the projected Tejas Mk.2 and in what kind of timeframe?

347 comments:

1 – 200 of 347   Newer›   Newest»
Desi Brown Magic said...

Excellent analysis mate, as always. Indian Govt and IAF has not shown any decisiveness/resoluteness in this whole saga. Please also shed some light on the recent events like US rejecting Chinese claims of ADIZ line and navigating close to the Spratly islands. I doubt the entanglement would result in military offensive from either side however; one wonders what diplomatic posture should India take or has already taken considering the recent visit of the No 2 of PLA army to New Delhi.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To DESI BROWN MAGIC: VMT. China has claimed red-lines from the territorial waters & EEZ standpoints. While the latter has been ignored by everyone, including ASEAN, the former has not yet been violated in depth by the US, but instead was just a symbolic penetration to send a message. It remains to be seen if the US & its allies from ASEAN & East Asia will call China's bluff & refuse to recognise China's territorial waters claims around the reclaimed islands. As for ADIZ, China as of now is in no position to enforce it over the reclaimed islands. Whether it would be able to enforce an ADIZ from 2016 remains to be seen.

Gopu said...

This post precisely explained my questions of the air force's structuring. What seems puzzling to me, though, is the need for a separate H-MRCA and M-MRCA when modern technology allows these roles to be fused into one. The Rafale, F-15E, and Super Hornet are capable of performing both roles.

And my earlier question on the F-35 was based on the fact that its engine generates the same amount of thrust as two 4th generation engines that will equip AMCA.

Anonymous said...

Prasunda;
Could the CAS role be handed off to AAC completely, and supported purely by a combination of Rudra, LAH, networked Apaches and converted Hawks. This then would allow IAF to focus more on offensive roles such as Air Superiority, SEAD/DEAD, Deep penetration strikes, and Recon etc. Additionally, defensive support is restricted to China because PAF offensive capability will be destroyed in the first 36 hrs and it is unlikely they will be able to launch any meaningful strikes. The defense role is more china oriented. Is this too simplistic?

Many thanks
Ashish

Jay Bhanushali said...

How should Pakistan air force counter such a massive force build up by the IAF?
If things contonue on the present trajectory for a decade or two then the power imbalance will be so huge that Pakistan will start looking like nuclearized version of Palestine by 2030
What would your advice be to the military planners in Pakistan ?

DAshu said...

so many ac types to maintain

birbal said...

Morning Prasun da,

As usual an excellent analysis...

Thanks.

buddha said...

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/05/05/muslims-in-norway-now-demand-a-separate-state-greece-will-soon-see-similar/

Raman said...

Very nice.............worth the wait..........

but, take a step back.......the number of aircrafts/type of aircrafts etc is the detailing .....the "Strategy" (short term/long term) is from what everything would really flow from - what the IAF would perceive it's "Tasks" to be in a given timeframe against specific threats. The 'Threats' would determine the "tasks" which would determine the "Plans".....

The IAF Plans are (obviously) absolutely and totally critical to each and every Threat scenario.....specially since we have no territorial ambitions (except PoK !!).....the idea being to cause as much damage in as little time as possible/to reduce drastically the war fighting ability of either Pakistan or China (or both). Total and immediate Air Superiority/Air Dominance. And, more than the IA......it's the IAF (and the IN) that really needs an aggressive freezing "Cold Start".

Arpit Kanodia said...

Sir,

Why not MoD thinking of allowing 6-8 squadrons of fixed wings for AAC? Why not Army also can be a customer of LCA Mk.1? Why not allow some AF Bases to share with Army?
Why not that will best to convert IAF into total offensive force, and give defensive assets to Army like of CAS?

On other question, in this thread you clearly described the buildup is on massive scale. What the PA and PAF planners thinking on countering such threats? If the buildup go in the same pace, then by next decade the Pakistan definitely become an Iraq of 90s.

joydeep ghosh said...

Squadron-wise, this breaks down into 5 with Jaguar IS/IM, up to 13 with Su-30MKIs, 3 with MiG-29UPGs and another 3 with Mirage 2000Is, 4 with MiG-27UPGs and MiG-27Ms, and 11 with MiG-21 Bisons. The shortfalls are particularly critical in the tactical interdiction and close air-support arenas.

written twice

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da,

I have 2 questions.

(1) Found this recent article about the sorry state of India's submarine fleet. Can I please request you to provide your expert analysis on this issue

http://swarajyamag.com/politics/the-sad-decline-of-indias-submarine-fleet-and-how-the-navy-is-rebuilding-it/

(2) Is it possible for the IAF to use the Hawk for similar operations for which the Russians are using the Su 25?

sbm said...

Superb - as usual.

Would you consider doing something similar on the IAF SAM plans ?

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Please Comment on this.

Are they capable & eat the boeing & Airbus Market share.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1216983/china-completes-production-of-own-passenger-plane


Thanks
S.Kumar

raw13 said...

IAF is a formidable force. There are other things to consider too like the availability, the number of sorties that the force can sustain and its confidence factor. Both in 1965 and 1971, IAF had similar numbers advantage and to a degree similar advantage in tech terms but PAF coped well. Read up third party sources and you will get a good clear idea.

In today's world BVR is critical. JF-17/F-16 armed with good BVR missiles, backed by AWACS are more than capable for air operations. Today PAF has morethan 8 squadrons of these and another couple added over then next 2 years.

Rajesh Mishra said...

Why Su-25 is more in praise and demand than Su-24 or even Su-34. I think Su-25 is suitable only against the weak adversaries. How much our Indian Hawk strike bomber can be compared to the Su-25.

mg6357 said...

Hi Prasunji,

1. You said we will have near about 50 Rafale by 2020 but even if we sign the deal today, it will take 3 years (i.e. 2018) to arrive the first batch. Does Dassault really have the capacity and capability to deliver ~50 aircrafts in 3 years just to IAF even when they have other orders to fulfill?

2. I have read elsewhere that as of today we have around 200-220 Su-30MKI and the average rate of production at HAL is 14-15 per year. IF this is true then how will we reach 350 Su-30MKIs by 2020 ? Will there be any direct imports from Russia?

3. Sir could you please explain how many numbers of Su-30MKI or Mig-29s or Jaguars or Mirage-2000 form 1 squadron for the respective type of aircraft ?

Sir, I have consistently seen that you are one those bloggers who reply to their readers. A big Thank you for that.

Chada said...

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/2-armymen-killed-in-firing-by-pakistan-along-line-of-control-1239239

Another 2 army guys dead. pak rangers and army poking IA again. What will BJP do about it?

Superpower by 2030 said...

This is my attempt at making a realistic projection of indian fighter aircraft strength by 2030 based on my interpretation of your blog above

054 fgfa
351 super su30mki
189 rafale f3r
063 mig 29 upg
045 mirage 2000-5 mk2
144 jaguar D- iii
126 LCA-mk1
054 LCA-mk2
126 combat hawk132
036 rafale-m
045 mig29k
045 LCA-Navy mk2

1278 total combat fleet

pm said...

sir what can we expect from this indo-russia IRIGC-MTC deal?

SATYAM said...

Prasun,

Boeing India Chief said on CNBC-TV18 today that Boeing is ready to start a manufacturing plant in India for F 15 & F 18.

I think he has got some indications from Parikar that IAF may need F 15 & F 18.

Please share your views

Thanks

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GOPU: That would be the ideal solution. But in reality, when Russia began marketing the Su-30MK in India in 1993, the 3-year marketing effort resulted in the Govt of India pressurising the IAF to opt for the MKI solution to placate a financially desperate Russia, but this being done WITHOUT insisting on the need for Russia to certify the Su-30MKI’s airframe for terrain-hugging flight profiles. And the Russians were not in favour of doing this either, since acquiescence to any such demand from the IAF would have meant that Russia would have to forego its choice of the Su-32FN/Su-34 as the preferred replacement of its Su-24M DPSAs. It is for this reason that to date, no terrain-avoidance mode has been developed for the Su-30MKI’s NO-11M ‘Bars’/RSLU-30MK PESA-MMR. On the Indian side, since the LCA was being developed as a L-MRCA with limited endurance, it could not possibly take over the role of tactical interdiction.

All these combined have dictated the IAF’s reqmt for the M-MRCA, which, in essence, will be used far more as a DPSA & less as an offensive air superiority aircraft. Unfortunately, some decision-makers in the MoD are either too dumb to understand this fact-of-life, or are plain ignorant due to the IAF’s inability to explain such matters threadbare. Consequently, there’s severe confusion everywhere & this in turn churns out dumb speculation about the Tejas Mk.1/Mk.2 being an alternative to the Rafale, or the Su-30MKI taking over the role of the Rafale.

To ASHISH: No AAC equipped with LUHs & attack helicopters undertakes CAS behind enemy lines. The AAC always operates directly above advancing friendly mechanised/armoured formations to either inflict attrition loses of a dug-in enemy or an enemy that is retreating in an organised manner, or preventing enemy counter-attacks from the flanks. Thus, the AAC is optimally utilised only for the contact battles. CAS on the other hand is directed against: the enemy’s staging areas where reserve formations are located are which are getting ready to join the contact battle; the enemy’s supply & logistics hubs/nodes; & field artillery concentrations located 20km/30km behind an advancing enemy. In the Indian context, historically speaking, in both 1965 & 1971 since attack helicopters weren’t available, the IAF had to undertake air-strikes for BOTH the contact battles & CAS behind enemy lines, & for the latter in some cases even An-12Bs loaded with traditional gravity bombs were used against the PA’s reserve armoured formations. Today, with the availability of attack helicopter options like the LAH version of the LCH, the IAF can in theory focus much more on CAS, but the MoD has yet to issue clear-cut guidelines & the green-light (promised way back in 1986) to the IA’s AAC to acquire such LAHs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JAY BHANUSHALI: It appears as a ‘massive build-up’ ONLY IF the IAF were to receive 250 or 290 L-MRCAs over the next 5 to 7 years. There’s still no clarity on this issue. The other glaring gaps are in the arenas of field artillery & absence of integral attack helicopters for the IA. There is therefore a dire need for clarity of thought/unity of purpose at the highest levels of the Govt of India & only then can realistic joint IA/IAF AirLand war planning options emerge.

To DASHU: Indeed. The biggest problems started emerging in the 1980s itself when a multiplicity of role-specific platforms from the USSR started being procured. Had the Su-25 been chosen, there would then have been no need for the MiG-23BNs & MiG-27MNs. And why was there the need for procuring 2 separate air superiority platforms—MiG-23MF & MiG-29B-12? Instead, why not procure only some 120 MiG-29s?

To RAMAN: VMT. The IAF was ‘cold-started’ since 1965 itself when, within less than 25 minutes after receiving the green-light from the MoD, its Vampires & Mystere-IVs were delivery CAS in the Chhamb-Jaurian sector! And again in Sumdorong Chu in 1986 when an entire infantry Brigade of the IA, backed up by 130mm & 155mm field artillery assets was staring down on the PKLA after it was deployed in less than 48 hours with the help of Mi-26T heavylift helicopters & IL-76MD transports.

To ARPIT KANODIA: And who will pay the bills for such a cost-prohibitive option? CAS is not a defensive mission, as I’ve explained above. It involves action behind enemy lines. What the IA requires today are some 120 attack helicopters (like the LAH), about 250 LUHs, and about 20 medium-lift helicopters like the Mi-17V-5 equipped with battlespace surveillance radars for detecting the enemy’s mechanised/armoured/medium field artillery force deployments, i.e. acquiring battlespace situational awareness, & then deciding how to successfully wage manoeuvre warfare during the contact battles.

To VIKRAM GUHA: There’s nothing new content-wise in that article. Just a repetition of what’s already known. For me, far more worrying is how will the INS Kalvari ever be able to complete her sea-trials when the Black Shark HWTs have not yet been ordered! The Kalvari’s SUBTICS combat management system already has embedded fire-control software read for the Black Shark, meaning no other type of HWT can now being used by the Scorpenes.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SBM: VMT. AS for SAMs, it will be an incomplete effort if just the IAF’s component is analysed. Even the IA’s component needs to be factored in, wouldn’t you concur? .

To S KUMAR: Only the 1st prototype has been rolled out. What will decide its fate will be the arduous flight certification programme. Unless it receives its certificate of airworthiness from not just the CAAC, but also from the FAA & EASA, this project won’t become a success story. Just witness how many problems the ARJ-21 regional airliner programme is beset with.

To RAW13: The IAF never had any numbers advantage over the PAF in both 1965 or 1971, this being due to the IAF’s need to cater to the northern front. Thus, numbers-wise, the IAF & PAF had parity. In 1971 the entire military leadership had realised way back early in that year that East Pakistan was a lost case & not worth fighting for & hence the minimal assets deployed there. Despite this, the IAF had to keepo some of its squadrons in reserve to take care of any contingency in the northern front. Till this day, there are raging debates within the IAF—with the benefit of hindsight of course—about how the air wars would have progressed had the IAF committed such reserves into battle in the west after the 1st week of hostilities in both 1965 & 1971 when it became evident that China would not intervene militarily.

To RAJESH MISHRA: Su-24M & Su-34 are both DPSAs. The Su-25 & Su-39 are CAS platforms. The Su-25 comes in for praise because it was developed as a highly survivable platform even after being exposed to hostile AAA while flying low to locate its targets & accurately target them with traditional gravity bombs & unguided rockets. The Su-24M & Su-34 on the other hand were developed for launching standoff PGMs from safe distances & altitudes. Today, with the availability of a wide-range of lightweight PGMs, the Su-25/Su-39 too can not only deliver them from safe distances, but also carry a lot more of them than any L-MRCA or a MiG-27M-type tactical interdictor.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MG6357: 1) Yes, series-production can always be ramped up by Dassault Aviation. 2) Obviously additional Su-30MKIs built by IRKUT Corp will have to be imported in semi-knocked-down condition. 3) 20 per squadron, including attrition reserves.

To CHADA: BJP can’t do anything, because it does not possess any of the tools for countering such incidents. It is for the Govt of India to respond.

To PM: That topic was touched upon & discussed in the previous thread itself.

To SATYAM: These are mere buzzwords. Exactly what will this ‘manufacturing plant’ produce? As the numerous licenced-production projects since the 1950s till to date have shown us, licenced-manufacturing is primarily licenced-assembly, with no more than 40% of the components being built in-country from locally-sourced raw materials. Of what use is metal-bending or machining being done locally when the sheet metal or ingots are wholly imported? I would rather focus more on indigenising all the rotables & consumables that are reqd in large volumes during the lifetime of an aircraft & without whose timely availability the aircraft will be grounded & have ZERO operational value. Even if 99.9% of an aircraft is built with indigenously-sourced materials & components, if its cockpit canopy transparencies are imported, then that aircraft will be useless once such transparencies turn yellow & offer ZERO visibility, while timely deliveries from abroad do not take place.

birbal said...

Very well explained to queries Prasun da.

As usual Lots of new and unknown things to learn from you specially the the tit-bits which, i think, no one explains so well in a CRISP & PRECISE manner, like for eg.TODAY the difference between Su-24M & Su-34 and the Su-25 & Su-39 etc.
Thanks for giving your PRECIOUS time to explain most of the things in a narrative manner, which you have been doing all these years since the start of your previous blog http://trishulgroup.blogspot.in/ in 2009...

With regards,

Pallab.

rad said...

hi prasun
Its worrying that the ins Kalvari has no torpedoes.Can the f21 french torpedo be incorporated in the FCS as it is french and it does not take much .Moreover Italy seems to be a pain in the arse for India and can always stop deliveries of the Black shark.IN the mean while it could use t he a184 ?.Is the german seahawk much better than the black shark which pakistan posses.?
will the new super sukhoi have a terrain avoidance mode in its aesa radar?. Cant we ask for that?.

Anonymous said...

Im wondering what would be NATO reporting name for TEJAS , any clues ?

Rohan said...

@rad The Blackshark and French F21 are the same weapon system. F21 is the French armed forces designation for the weapon.

Prasun-da I have several questions that I have been waiting to ask:

- Does the Indian Pvt sector have any established facilities / skills / experience in making CFRP structures? I ask in the context of a future Tejas production ramp up, since HAL certainly does not have the ability to mass produce.

- Is there any established facility for production of GaA components. I recall you mentioned before that chipsets and components are imported from Singapore and Malaysia on civilian markets but what about high end secure components?

- Why is it that only SAIL has the ability to produce high end steel for warship / submarine hulls. From what I know Tata Steel is a very good at making specialty alloys so why not tap them for this instead of facing delays imposed by SAIL's production limitations?

- Regarding the rumored S-400 acquisition, what do you think will be the impact on the IAF's force structure? Is it the DM's thinking that like the Russians we supplement the need for manned Point Defense Interceptor aircraft with IADS? Will broad scale coverage by IADS be an effective measure to solve the numbers problem?

- What is the merit of the idea for IAF to do a joint project to finance / complete flight testing of the MiL Mi-38 chopper and establish a production line in India and begin mass producing. This would complement and eventually supplement the Mi-17v5 (which is what the Mi-38 is for) and give us the chance to develop customized versions for different roles.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia had expressed their interest in acquiring the Brahmos missiles that India had developed in partnership with Russia. Manila has now joined that list. The Modi government has renewed the talk on exporting arms, especially the Brahmos. But it is yet to conclude a single sale in the South China Sea and beyond.

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/raja-mandala-china-philippines-maritime-dispute-why-delhi-must-not-be-at-sea/#sthash.bYmkvOYC.dpuf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before coming up with such trash, these so-called contributing editors & distinguished fellows should ask themselves why Vietnam & Indonesia have already purchased the Bastion & Yakhont systems, & why did Russia sell them if at all these countries wanted the BrahMos-1. Mere ill-informed jingoism won't help secure any export sales.

RAT said...

Hi Prasun,

Very informative article again. Would like to know if there is any kind of collaborative work going in with Israeli defence industry or we are mere copying and upgrading their stuff? On the other side as Anon@12:05 PM mentioned what is the NATO reporting name of Tejas? Just curious Thanks a lot again.

maverick said...

What is the intent of having Dhanush missile . is it a dummy naval variant of pridhvi or can it match DF-21 (except for range)

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BIRBAL/PALLAB: VMT.

To ROHAN: 1) CRFP structures can easily be supplied in bulk today today by TAML, TASL, Kemrock, MKU, etc. 2) GaA-based transmit/receive modules can be & are being fabricated by both private-sector & DPSUs, but the reqd quantum of processing chips have to be imported from Malaysia or Singapore & then have high-end encryption algorithyms embedded within them in-country. 3) Not just SAIL, even ESSAR Steel is now supplying. 4) SAM procurements won't influence the IAF's force-structure concerning combat aircraft platforms. 5) Mi-38 is already at the fag-end of its flight certification schedule & i DON'T THINK THE Ruskies are seeking any Indian involvement in such endeavours. If at all the Ruskies have proposed the Mi-38, then it could well be an attempt to scupper HAL's MRH R & D effort. But even this is doubtful, since HAL favours the VK-2500 engine & related gearbox for the projected 'desi' MRH.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

RAT: Collaborative R & D like the one involving the Barak-2 LR-SAM is only possible for devising brand-new product solutions. In most cases, off-the-shelf purchases are taking place. For instance, for the IN's LINK-2 comms network using the GSAT-7/Rukmini, ALL the shipborne terminals containing the high-end encryption/decryption modems have been sourced from ORBIT Technologies, while the IAF's SATCOM terminals come from RADA Defence Electronics. In India, there's simply no innovation taking place of the type that come out from Israel. For instance, a version of any existing AESA-MMR cxan easily be mounted on a 4 x 4 truck to serve as the target acquisition/tracking aid for anti-UAV lasers. No one in India is even thinking about such integrated solutions, while RAFAEL & RADA are already out with the 'Iron Beam' system.

To MAVERICK: There was no intent from the armed forces. What had happened was that after the IGMDP was launched in 1984, it was discovered that the DRDO had 200 engineers & 400 technicians--all of whom were familiar with only rockets using liquid propulsion. Yet, despite the armed forces insisting on solid propulsion for NLOS-BSMs, the duo of R Ventakaraman & Dr V S Arunachalam decided to go with liquid propulsion systems for the Prithvi & for this a sprawling R & D centre was created in Hyderabad, along with production facilities at BDL nearby. That's how the Prithvi & Dhanush projects were born. But the armed forces never wanted them & that continues to be their official stance even today.

PIYUSH DAS said...

Sir, are 12 s400 systems enough for both china & Pakistan ?
Will s400 system be effective against swarm of missiles (expected from China) ?
Do we have any protection against Chinese SLBM ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAD: What's the use of any aircraft hosting an AESA-MMR if that aircraft's airframe itself is not certified/cleared for terrain-hugging flight profiles? And like I explained earlier, just because the torpedo tubes are of 533mm diameter, doesn't mean that any 533mm torpedo can be used. What matters most is what kind of torpedo-specific fire-control solution is embedded within the SUBTICS. In case of the Scorpene, the solution for Black Shark is the standard, meaning if the customer does not specify an alternative solution, then the solution for Black Shark will be the default answer. Therefore, like-it-or-not, the Black Shark will have to be acquired by the IN. Italians didn't make themselves a pain-in-the-arse for India. Instead, it has been the other way around, thanks largely to Messrs A K Antony, his Italy-origin political chairperson, & domestic politicking within the ruling political coalition in Kerala.

Gopu said...

While it isn't surprising that MoD has no idea what's going on, what's surprising is the inability of several past Air Chiefs to articulate their force's needs clearly. Makes you wonder how the they get promoted to the top.

On another note, the IIT engineer-led MoD still has not drawn up a new DPP or Chief of Staff requirement. It just seems like perpetual drafts are pushed back every 6 months. At the very least all this "due process" of passing paperwork from one desk to the next has to be removed.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIYUSH DAS: Those 'swarms' of ballistic missiles & MBRL rockets are only for animated marketing video-clips. In real-life, they won't happen. At best, only a salvo of six TBMs against one air base. Like I stated in the previous thread, only 11 targets are threatened by such TBMs from Pakistan or China, of which 6 are air bases. Hence, procuring 12 TMD Batteries or four Regiments (3 Batteries per Regiment) is enough to ensure that one Battery is always available for protecting one single target.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GOPU: That is possible ONLY IF the three service chiefs give a combined briefing to the entire Cabinet Committee on National Security (CCNS), which never happens. I will be highly surprised if, under the present system, even the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee is invited whenever the CCNS is convened! During the days of UPA-1/UPA-2, no Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee was ever invited to either the CCNS meetings, or for any meeting at the PMO. And why is this so? Simply because as per the Rules of Business governing the MoD, it is the Defence Secretary who is responsible for the defence of India, & not the RM or any of the 3 service chiefs. If this anomaly isn't corrected (it should have been after 1962 itself!), then the present state-of-affairs will continue to prevail with all its negative after-effects.

Shaji Pappan said...

Will the FGFA be capable of DPSA so we don't end up with redundant resources again?

Anonymous said...

Sir, why do we not have any motorized infantry divisions in our army ?
Would it not be a good alternative to some of the infantry divisions that we have in the western, south-western and southern commands ?

- Baldev.

Jay Bhanushali said...

Prasun sir,
Vmt for the reply.
Could you please share some more information about the 'desi' MRH
Will it be aimed at the navy or the iaf ?
Can a single platform be optimized for both navy and the iaf ?
Will HAL go solo like it did with the luh and lch ?
If not then which established player will it partner with?
What would be a realistic timeframe from design to series production ?
When is the project likely to be officially sanctioned?
Won't it be better to use the PW127/TS engine as it is also used on the C-295 instead of the VK-2500 ?

There is hardly any info on this topic out there..
Eagerly awaiting your reply.

Ni8 Dweller said...

Hi Prasun da,
Would like to know your take on the below article.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/the-strange-silence-surrounding-an-indian-military-exercise/

birbal said...

" No one in India is even thinking about such integrated solutions, while RAFAEL & RADA are already out with the 'Iron Beam' system."

That's why India is where it stands today, BUYING oops i should say "IMPORTING" clutches to stand-up. India should have this slogan-"I LOVE to IMPORT, either I IMPORT it directly OR MADE-IT in INDIA." India always had the money BUT NEVER had the B@!!# to STAND-UP and say "I CAN MAKE IT IN INDIA" and DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to Rise. Israel may not have the money BUT they have the GUTS, the WILL POWER to CHANGE the way the world looks-up to it.
We most of the times tend to FORGET that we have a BRAIN that can THINK!!!
Thinking OUT-OF-THE-BOX is Beyond our reach.

Guys it's SAD but TRUE...it hurts but we have no other options BUT to digest it. Most of this Blog readers seems to have GOOD SENSE but ALAS we are not Ruling the country, the one who is SITTING ON THE CHAIR is....

As Prasun da says it JUST needs COMMON SENSE and WILL POWER....

buddha said...

SIR these SO CALLED PSEUDO seculars......self-interested self-termed intellectuals and media and some elements of bjp aretrying to create an atmosphere....of unrest...but there is no unrest in reality.....and some tmcp.. cpm leaders creating nuisance on the streets...how to get rid of this...what will be govt of India's stand.....I sometime feel..after bihar election these will fade away..slowly....or is this a secret game played by congress to revive in India's political scenario....by constantly putting pressure on Namo and creating veil of passing comments..so that people in general fail to understand what the man is trying to do for the mass?
ur comment is earnestly sought
Anticipating your kind perusal....

vrp said...

Sir,
your views on situation in Nepal and Maldives. With both tilting towards China, what strategic disadvantage will be there for India, Hope you reply.

Thanks

vrp

Raj said...

Prasun,

The S-400 deal is getting closer to conclusion but you mentioned earlier that the THAAD was a stronger option. No one is talking about THAAD anywhere but S-400 is pushing ahead. Maybe your analysis is faulty!!!

Same with Black Shark torpedoes. There are fair chances for SeaHake torpedo to be ordered and manufactured in a JV with an Indian shipyard. The Italian ship has sailed after their MTCR drama. Even Oto Melara seems in trouble now after its ineligibility from 30mm gun tender. So much so that Finmeccanica is now changing its name.

Your analysis has started faltering..

Vikram said...

Prasun, Like your hogwash about Rafale, Scorpene SSN etc. Your THAAD dream is also shattering.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/worlds-most-advanced-missile-defence-system-heres-what-india-is-buying-from-its-all-weather-friend-russia-2489130.html

http://www.uniindia.com/india-seals-rs-70-000-cr-missile-deal-with-russia/india/news/257832.html#DJM1EVcOzV6WQ6iO.99

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIKRAM: What is hogwash is your characterisation of my 'dream'. When asked, all that I had stated was that compared to what's being offered as a TMD-capable S-400, a far more effective system called THAAD exists today & that given the choice between the two systems, the THAAD would be my choice. But for jingoes like you the details don't matter & that's why you've quoted an article which claims that the S-400 was previously known as S-300PMU-3!

The 2nd article clearly states that this 'deal' is likely to be signed when PM NaMo goes to Moscow next month. If I were you, then I would hold my horses till then, instead of prematurely spewing out hogwash like the ones you've posted above.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAJ: LoLz! You mean just like the IL-214 MRTA 'deal' inked in the previous decade & despite this the IAF is ending up with 12 C-130J-30s, with no IL-214 in sight as of now? Yes, Sea Hake can be ordered, but for it to be fired from the SSKs, the entire torpedo compartment & the compartment housing the SUBTICS CMS will have to be ripped open so that the necessary modifications can be done. You want the pressure-hulls of these Scorpenes to be ripped open just as they're being welded together just for the Sea Hake? Be my guest & foot the bill for such work! I'm sure even the IN won't share your enthusiasm now about the Sea Hake.

Vikram Guha said...

@ Vikram: You may or may not have my first name but just to separate your nonsensical talks from my genuine questions, use a different name.

PrasunDa,

What happened to the Navy's RFP for coastal batteries? Are they planning to buy from Konsberg?

Thank You

PIYUSH DAS said...

Sir, Why don't we buy nuclear submarines from Russia ? Why we have to lease them ?

maverick said...

http://idrw.org/brahmos-missile-first-of-its-kind-in-the-world-to-be-integrated-on-fighter-aircraft-hal/

Hi prasun ,

Why is DRDO always chest thumping citing that Brahmos is one of a kind ? while Air-Sol Moyenne Portée, Yakhont and the likes are already there ? Is there any substance in what DRDO is claiming ?

Does Brahmos have any specific viable advantage that , any of its likes dont have ? except that it has a much shorter range than Oniks , and a tonne of press release every year !

SOUBHAGYA said...

Dear Prasun,

I would like to know whether it is true that GoI is going ahead with the procurement of S-400. Using my own analysis, I used to think that THAAD system would be a better choice (since I am not sufferring from terminal stupidity). But I don't know how decisions are made by our Govt.??? What The Hell???

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SOUBHAGYA: LoLz! All data concerning the proposed TMD version of the S-400 LR-SAM had already come out in the show dailies produced during the MAKS 2015 expo last August. Based on that, it emerges that Russia is proposing a joint R & D project similar to what was done with Israel for the Barak-2 LR-SAM. The Ruskies are proposing that Almaz-Antey JSC take in a group of young DRDO techies & teach them how to design & develop the Ka-band active radar seekers for the projected 77N6-N and the 77N6-NI interceptor missiles, i.e. the Ruskies are holding out yet another lollypop like they did for the IL-214 MRTA & FGFA in the previous decade. Neither NaMo nor the IAF are so stupid so as to fall for such lollypops. In any case, for the Ruskies, this is just a wild shot worth taking, since the financial value of any such deal is miniscule compared to what Russia will gain next month. And that is the inking of the agreement for the 3rd & 4th PWRs to be built at Kudankulam & as part of this contract, there will be the annexe containing the leasing arrangement for the Kashalot SSGN. In other words, just like it was the case with leasing the Nerpa SSGN, money for the leasing of Kashalot too will come from the DAE's pursestrings, & not from the IN's annual budgets.

To MAVERICK: Chest-thumping is mostly done by 'desi' jingoes & bandalbaazes. Earlier today, I had already brought to notice similar bandaalbaazi of 'Raja Mandela/C Raja Mohan. Now, about air-launched BrahMos, which one will it be? BrahMos-A or the BrahMos-Mini/BrahMos-NG? Based on what was shown at Aero India 2015, the 2.55-tonne BrahMos-A will go on-board the Su-30MKI, while the BrahMos-Mini/BrahMos-NG will arm the MiG-29K. But strangely, the 'desi' journalists are focussed only on the air-launched BrahMos-A, & not on the air-launched BrahMos-Mini/BrahMos-NG. As for HAL's claim of conducting in-depth study of stress, load and aerodynamic analysis followed by design and development of structural, electrical and avionics modification schemes, fabrication of kits and qualification testing, it is all hogwash since Sukhoi OKB NEVER shared any airframe design data with HAL. Instead, Sukhoi OKB, the sole owner of such IPR data, only sent HAL all the stress/load/aerodynamic data reqd for structural integration, as well as similar data reqd for structurally modifying the Su-30MKI airframe. At no point did HAL do any indigenous design analysis of any kind. Had HAL done so, then by now it would have proudly released photos showing wind tunnel tests of a scale-model of a Su-30MKI armed with BrahMos-A. That's the ultimate proof of indigenous R & D--which obviously has remained elusive. The same goes for the unavailability of photos of Nirbhay LACM's scale-model being subjected to wind-tunnel tests.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIYUSH DAS: Obviously because they are not for sale.

To VIKRAM GUHA: If I'm not mistaken, what was released as an RFI, not RFP. But why seek imported land-based ASCM coastal batteries when a scaled-down version of the Nirbhay cruise missile can very easily be transformed into an ASCM? In fact, such an ASCM can easily accommodate a dual-mode terminal guidance system comprising not just an X-band active radar, but also an IIR sensor.

To VRP: There's no 'tilt' as such. Geographic realities dictate that both countries rely more on India. If Nepal wants to go flirting with China, by all means let it do so, provided it does not come back crying to India after being involuntarily raped by China.

To BUDDHA: There is indeed unrest, but in isolated areas/circles & by no means are these countrywide phenomenon. There are less than 10 persons in the entire country who are indulging in hate speeches & all that needs to be done is to charge them & convict them for making hate-speeches & provoking terrorist incidents--regardless of whether or not they are MPs or MLAs. Once this is done, no one will ever dare to follow their footsteps. As for the Left Front, it is desperately trying to fish in troubled waters by making wild accusations. For instances, while the WB state govt with good intentions in mind had decided last month to permit Durga protima immersions in a staggered manner so as not to cause traffic gridlocks due to the back-to-back observance of Muhharam, the Left Front spread false canards by giving this a communal twist! This is similar to what the Communists did in the late 1960s, when on one hand they forced the WB Police to go soft on the Naxalites while at the same time intimidated the Muslims by claiming that the Naxalites were anti-Muslim & only the Left front therefore was capable of ensuring the safety of the minority communities of WB!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BIRBAL/PALLAB: Here are some examples of new-generation innovations using AESA technologies:

http://www.blighter.com/products/blighter-auds-anti-uav-defence-system.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/a400-series-radars.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/revolution-360-radar.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/b400-series-radars.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/b303-radar.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/b202-mk-2-radar.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/blighter-scout.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/blighter-explorer.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/blighterview-hmi-2.html

http://www.blighter.com/products/blightertrack.html

http://www.rada.com/capabilities/land-radars/rps-10-aps-radar

http://www.rada.com/capabilities/land-radars/rps-14-aps-radar

http://www.rada.com/capabilities/land-radars/rps-15-chr-radar

http://www.rada.com/capabilities/land-radars/rps-40-radar

http://www.rada.com/capabilities/land-radars/rps-42-radar

http://www.rada.com/capabilities/land-radars/rhs-44-rhs-radar

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JAY BHANUSHALI: What is known is that while HAL was conducting feasibility studies for the IMRH & had invited inputs from the 3 armed services, no rationalisation of design and operating parameters (i.e. unified QRs) was done by a tri-service project team. Only the IAF consulted HAL prior to drafting the ASQR. The NSQR and GSQR were drafted without consulting HAL. As a result, the IMRH for IA will have 14 tonnes all-up weight, IMRH for IN will have 12 tonnes all-up weight, while the IMRH for IAF will have 14 tonnes all-up weight. How all this will be achieved remains anyone's guess. Nor is there any clarity on any unified mission avionics suite, or unified self-defence suite, or whether it will have BERP-type main rotor-blades, or a fly-by-wire or fly-by-light flight-control system. Selection of VK-2500 engine & related gearbox makes sense since this would ensure commonality of hardware with the Mi-17V-5, thereby reducing MRO costs.

Arpit Kanodia said...

Sir,

If solutions like Barak-8 ER is available, also when AD-1/AD-2 is in R&D phase, then what is the purpose of buying S400 or developing an Indian version of S400?

Or this is just an offer from Russia? And Indian 'desi' jurnos misquoting RM that India proposed to buy this?

On another question, what is the status of AD-1/AD-2? Can we expect the first test of this soon?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

For those who want to know everything about India's civilian & nuclear programmes/projects, PWRs, PHWRs, FBRs, fissile materials reprocessing etc etc, this should be a welcome compilation:

http://www.isis-online.org/uploads/isis-reports/documents/India_Fissile_Material_Stock_November2_2015-Final.pdf

However, the estimations derived are approximate & should therefore not be taken as the gospel truth.

Anonymous said...

Prasunda;

Thanks for clarifying the case of S-400. -:)
But then what is the $11B for, lease of 1 SSGN, 2 PWRs , plus BMP2s, and Mi17v5s etc will not amount to that. Is there a surprise coming? PAK-FA or more SU-30MKIs? Or Ka226 decision/orders?
Or is the 11B news also a figment of reporters imagination?
Many Thanks

Ashish

Anonymous said...

This is what i am referring to...
http://www.uniindia.com/india-seals-rs-70-000-cr-missile-deal-with-russia/india/news/257832.html#DJM1EVcOzV6WQ6iO.99

Thanks
Ashish

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ARPIT KANODIA: By now it should become obvious that the DRDO's BMD development project is suffering from severe back-engineering challenges. Not that they can't be overcome, they can, with continued investments, but the results won't become evident in the near future, especially in the 2 crucial arenas of active terminal seekers & high-energy solid propellants. The operational TMD reqmt is urgent because it is obvious that in the estimation of India's present-day civilian & military decision-makers, there may be an outbreak of limited war between India & Pakistan before the end of this decade.

To NI8 DWELLER: It's interesting, isn't it? And it is not for this year alone. Even last year hardly any publicity was accorded to such exercises of the IA & IAF. There are two obvious possibilities: One, that India has discarded her previous posture of publicing such Corps-level exercises being a deterrent against Pak-sponsored major terrorist attacks onh Indian soil, & has instead switched over to a doctrine of defensive offense under which proportionate damage will be caused through both covert operations as well as retaliatory strikes, like the intense border-shelling undertaken by the BSF last year & earlier this year, which, unlike field exercises, have caused actual & tangible damage to the adversary.

Second, under the as-yet-not-officially-disclosed warfighting doctrine that was finalised & formally adopted in 2010, the future war against Pakistan will be fought along the lines I had suggested in the scenario in the previous thread. In such a scenario, Pakistan's usage of TNWs inside its own territory against an invading Indian Army rapid-deployment formation gets nullified because any use of TNWs in such areas--as opposed to desert terrain--will cause incalculable to both Pakistan's own citizens as well as its so-called Kashmiri brethren. It is perhaps for this very reason that India sees no need to deploy TNWs & consequently, all further R & D work on the Prahaar NLOS-BSM was stopped, & also why till to date no effort has been made to develop a solid-fuel NLOS-BSM replacement of the Prithvi-1s.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASHISH: Do you really believe that the Govt of India will be able to fork out US$11 billion when Arun Jaitley is having difficulty in coming up with the funding for 36 Rafale M-MRCAs? Therefore, those who are speculating about such financial figures are probably hell-bent on giving the Union Finance Minister a massive heart-attack!!!

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Did India ever buy the S-300? There are some reports in some forums that IAF did buy 5-6 launchers of S-300 in 1995 to counter Paki M-9 and M-11's

Is this true?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

No, they were never bought or acquired.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VRP: You may find this interesting:

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-right-centre/has-nepal-become-a-foreign-policy-disaster-for-delhi/389433?hp&video-featured

Jay Bhanushali said...

how the times are changing

In a first, Chinese central bank invests in Indian govt bonds
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/bonds/in-a-first-chinese-central-bank-invests-in-indian-govt-bonds/articleshow/49652155.cms

Gopu said...

Why is there a very high chance of a full-blown conflict w/ Pak in the next 5 years?

And if the strategic planners think so, it would have behooved them to purchase some critical products years ago

Gopu said...

Apart from the first 3-4 leased SSN's, why hasn't production of attack submarines started in India since we already have the Akula blueprints?

What further steps need to be taken to get the Severodvinsk and Borei SSN manufacturing ability?

Raj said...

Prasun,

In the last thread..this is what you wrote on THAAD:

----------
"That India’s national security decision-makers will favour the THAAD over the S-400 is hardly in doubt, since they are already convinced about the superior performance parameters of the US-origin TMD solution."..

"Between the S-400 & THAAD, the latter has a greater chance of making it to India due to the reasons I’ve outlined above in the narrative. The TMD version of S-400 is still an unproven & un-demonstrated system & no one from Russia can as yet state with certainty when exactly such a system will become available for export."...
----------

Now, I don't care what is your preference in these two systems. But you are forcefully informing here that India has already decided to go for THAAD (for which you have supposedly internal information), which is far from the reality. So why not state the facts, and let the audience decide? There is a big difference between what you think and the actual scenario.

On Black Shark Torpedoes, it may be your opinion that Scorpene can't function without them. But I have faith on Indian Navy and its jugaad. When the time comes, any torpedo will work on its submarines.

Finally, you can keep recommending and dreaming about India signing CISMOA/BECA/LSA for as long as you want, the fact is no sensible government will sign them EVER. Only a lunatic will sign them.

PIYUSH DAS said...

Thaad system has indium antimonide Imaging Infra-Red Seeker Head

Whereas s400 has ka band seeker

Why do both the systems, despite having similar role, have adopted different Modus operandi ?

Gopu said...

@Raj Can't tell if you're a troll or just skimmed half of the post and didn't read the rest

The THAAD has already been developed and is being deployed, while the ABM variant of the S-400 is still on the drawing boards, which makes the THAAD a more preferable system (the Arrow system would be next preferable if THAAD is not available).

Plus the IIR seeker on the THAAD is more accurate than the proposed Ka X-ray seeker due to the basic laws of physics (their respective wavelengths in the EM spectrum).

The only bottleneck is if the US authorizes the sale, which to me seems doubtful (although Prasun seems to have sources that say otherwise).

Secondly, the fire control system is incompatible with other torpedoes (why the IN signed the Scorpene deal over the U-214 is an example of poor planning by the MoD). Read up on the sunk-cost fallacy and then you will realize that it makes no sense to refit a newly constructed sub.

The only information I cannot find much about is about these proposed French SSN's that come along with the Rafale deal. I would appreciate more details on them. What is confusing is why we need French assistance when the Russians are ALREADY giving us assistance in this field AND the Russians have more experience with SSN's than the French. Please provide more context on this.

Gopu said...

Otherwise, this whole Rafale deal is baloney and the FAR cheaper YET equally capable F-18 Super Hornet should be selected.

If the French give designs for the Rubis and the Russians for the Akula, then there is not much difference between the two.

Although Akula is double-hulled, the Rubis design suffers from significant noise problems, meaning Rubis isn't orders of magnitudes stealthier than the Akula.

Also the PWR's for the Rubis are weaker than the Akula's.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAJ: LoLz! Your abject ignorance of the laws of physics seems legendary! Show me just 1 example of JUGAAD from any of the 3 services that has worked & delivered so far, mind you, on-board platforms of foreign origin without any form of assistance whatsoever from the concerned foreign OEMs. Read the original contract-terms & conditions of the Scorpene SSK deal & you will realise that there was never any technology-transfer clause for any component. Only sharing of licenced-production expertise was part of the contract. Consequently, no one in India is qualified to rip open any CMS like the SUBTICS & even if it is ripped apart, no one will be able to figure out the encrypted algorithmns of the fire-control system. The same goes for the torpedo tubes as well, all of which are customised to standards specified by the OEM. Therefore, even all torpedo-tubes built to unified NATO production-standard cannot communicate with the CMS unless the fire-control is common to both. And if someone attempts a JUGAAD of the type you're hallucinating about, the OEM always has the right to object & in retaliation will not honour its product warranty clause & will even stop supplying product-support. But of course, since you are not the type to go into such details, you're obviously dwelling in cuckoo-land.

And since you are also not the type to place your faith on the laws of physics, by all means do contact Navantia, DCNS, WASS & ATLAS Elektronik & ask them to give you in writing that the Sea Hake can be made compatible with any CMS that is already installed inside any SSK or SSBN or SSN or SSGN. The answer you will get is: impossible, unless this is attempted during a mid-life refit & that too with the full concurrence of the CMS' OEM.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIYUSH DAS: The obvious answer to that is the ability to distinguish between actual warheads & decoys. This can only be done with 'eyes'. RF seekers don't have such distinguishing capabilities. That's why even the AD-1/AD-2 are supposed to have on-board IIR seekers.

To GOPU: You won't find any information on the Rafale-SSN connection from any official sources, just as there will never be any official inputs concerning the inking of the agreement for the 3rd & 4th PWRs to be built at Kudankulam & as part of this contract, there will be the annexe containing the leasing arrangement for the Kashalot SSGN. In other words, this is just like it was the case with leasing the Nerpa SSGN & the formal contract signatures for the ATV Project in 1989, both of which were part of the contracts inked for Kudankulam's 1st & 2nd PWRs. And just as in the past, money for the leasing of Kashalot too will come from the DAE's purse-strings, & not from the IN's annual budgets. But if you're expecting for official corroboration of such details, they, I'm afraid, will not emerge at least for another decade.

No one ever shared any design blueprints for the Project 971A Shchuka-B SSGN. It's just an outright lease arrangement involving the Nerpa K-152/INS Chakra. The same will be the case with Kashalot.

Regarding SSNs from France, the deal will be about sharing of production expertise & through-life product-support expertise, & NOT for designing expertise--this being similar to what the French are doing in Brazil & what Russia did along with the ATV Project Office for the IN's projected S-2, S-3, S-4, S-5, S-6 & S-7 SSBNs. Between the West & Russia, the former have far superior expertise & experience in developing & deploying single-hulled SSNs, whereas the Russians have traditionally clung to double-hulled designs for SSKs & SSGNs. Their first foray into single-hulled designs was the Project 677 Lada-class/Amur 1650 SSK, which has been rejected by the Russian Navy itself, while the Project 885 Yasen-class--also Russia's first single-hulled SSGN design--is still evolving & has not yet emerged as a fully mature & validated design. Therefore, if I were an export customer looking for SSNs, I would talk to the party that is offering proven & mature solutions, which will drastically minimise my project management risks.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GOPU: As for THAAD's export approval from the US State Department, it won't be a problem at all, since THAAD is just a regional TMD system and India has no intention of deploying a countrywide national BMD network that could potentially challenge the efficacy of past treaties like 1972 US-USSR ABM Treaty. THAAD has already been marketed to India (this can be done only if the US State Dept approves it) since 2003 & the US BMD Agency too has given classified briefings to Indian officials--all this already being published & is on-the-record.

And deployment by India of a TMD network will therefore be limited to specific geographic sectors that are most likely to be targetted by Pakistan's limited arsenals of conventionally-armed SRBMs, TBMs & IRBMs.

maverick said...

Hi Prasun,

Thanks for clarification on Brahmos NG and Brahmos A ... most of the time desi press seems to be confused about these versions and add more confusion :)

i have a few more questions

1.The case of wind tunnel model should cement ur suspicion that nirbhay is a Ruski gift ... if that is true , then i guess of all the partners that india has and esp US our new found love ... ; Russia stand outs to part with more % of tech with India ? WRT to ur previous comment on lollipop from russia on FGFA project, Hasn't HAL team in Russia gain any viable knowledge on stealth design n development ? I guess Russians might pretty well know that providing a greater RnD work share to indian counter parts might throw the project to yet another stall . what are your thoughts on it ?


2. what is the current status of sudarshan LGB ?

3. What could have the intend of such a test ? any idea ?
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2011/12/india-tests-mini-drone-with-pulsejet.html


maverick said...

4. What about Brahmos 2 ? is it still a Russian platform or is DRDO making some advances ? ... is HSTDV project some way related to Brahmos2 ? there were news about Israel helping us to set up a hypersonic windtunnel.

Gopu said...

Thanks for the reply (and quick one)!

While I understand design expertise won't be transferred, the transferred production expertise will transfer A design, like the ATV project did. The laws of submarine design are no secret; the only problem is the necessary investment in human capital and design testing to create that design.

I guess the Submarine Design Group of the Directorate of Naval Design isn't very skilled and it doesn't have the requisite resources for independent research, but the analogy I'm trying to make is how the Talwar ships provided a baseline for the P-17 FFG and its subsequent derivatives. While submarines are more difficult to make and have a longer design to construction turnaround, the same principle should apply by 2040.

By referring to the West, the US's and the UK's (which I believe have US design inputs) SSNs are highly effective single-hulled designs.

France's SSN program was/is a largely independent endeavor. Their SSN design is still awaiting its 2nd generation, so it still lags the Virginia class standard. This leaves me to guess the French will provide Rubis class 1st-generation production expertise to India since their latest design has not been tested yet. I recall that you said the SSNs India would build would be about 2000 tons in displacement -- and not the 5000 tons Barracuda dimension -- which supports this idea.

So at the end of the day, we are comparing a 1st-generation design that's been in operational service against a 1st-generation design that is still in testing, with the IN opting for the former choice. So this looks like a reasonable decision -- the caveat is the financial burden of the Rafale.

http://news.usni.org/2014/10/28/u-s-navy-impressed-new-russian-attack-boat

Gopu said...

The only two solutions that I see to reduce the Rafale's cost is to cut the operational expenses of the armed forces (ie: why do we pay the army for a Southern Command when at most an amphibious brigade is needed) AND to negotiate with the French to integrate Indian pvt. companies into the Rafale supply chain, replacing expensive labor-intensive French manufacturing with Indian manufacturing.

And the offsets agreement is foolish since the only useful product Dassault can provide India with is the Rafale. Subcontractors like Thales and Safran might pitch in the occasional trinket that is useful, but offsets are still useless unless they're either used for spares and MRO maintenance or used to replace inefficient French manufacturing with Indian manufacturing that is guaranteed to reduce the Rafale's supply chain costs.

Johny Quest said...

By early 2020s Indian navy will have 3 ssbn(arihant) and 2 aircraft carriers. Is there a possibility of leasing 3 additional ssgn/ssn from the ruskies over and above the 2 akulas to protect these assets?
I am certain that the indigenous ssn is at least 15 years away and its induction will correspond with the IAC-2 and the larger s-5,s-6,s-7 ssbn entering service.
VMT in advance.

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You PrasunDa

(1) So does this mean that a Coastal Battery version of NIRBHAY is being developed ?

(2) Any advise as to how India can ramp up its submarine fleet ?

(3) Any advise on how Indian Navy should address the Torpedo issue that you had highlighted?

Thanks & Regards,

Vikram

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

This is indeed a great idea, it will alllw the NLCAs to operate from LPHs during serious confrontation and not just get limited to shore based MRCA mostly used for conversion training
http://idrw.org/the-case-for-pocket-aircraft-carriers-for-indian-navy/

btw i am still waiting :-)

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

sbm said...

I agree you can't leave out the IA SAMs and AD guns. I think it would be an interesting story.

Pawan said...

Dear Prasunji,

Your another prediction seems to be coming true: http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-may-transfer-4-Mi-35-Attack-helicopters-to-Afghanistan-382

I am waiting for the day when your prediction of India finally merging PoK into India will come true. I will pay obeisance at Amburik Mosque & kargah Buddha.

BTW what was Vice President of Taiwan doing in Afghanistan. Won't it riles the PRC.?

May God Bless You.

Regards,

rad said...

saudi getting friendly:

http://gulfnews.com/news/asia/pakistan/any-threat-to-pakistan-s-integrity-is-unacceptable-saudi-king-says-1.1613498

Manu Pradip said...

@prasunda. Sir, This is my 1st post, i would like to know why our private firms are not investing in defence r&d ? There shld be a clause where atleast 25% of their profit from defence business shld be used on r&d. What's your take on this?

Anonymous said...

The Indian companies are interested in defense R&D, provided MoD gives substantive assurance that Indian defense force will weapons and equipments according to the quality, not according to the political influence of labor unions.
As Prasun mentioned many times, India should diversify its defense manufacturing public sector companies and the better quality should be prevailed for arms purchase.
It has been noticed and studied well that, if a country's defense R&D technology increases, its civilian technology also increases, resulting a lot of job opportunities for qualified technicians. If you take any countries, such as US, Israel, France, Germany, Japan, UK, etc, the companies and government invest a lot in defense R&D and increases defense production resulting in civilian technologies. For that matter, former USSR had a lot of talents, but everything from R&D to production was government's money and government's control, and resulting in huge hole in nation's budget. So when US and other western countries improved, USSR found it difficult to manage the national defense, resulting in collapse of USSR.
For India, we should blame the early rulers of India for putting India into a socialist country, and took the country in this situation. We didn't have dedicated R&D in any field. So we do not have dedicated quality technicians or engineers, even though India produces largest engineers in the world, but quality is par below compared to western countries.

NairM

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

TO JOHNY QUEST: Even if 3 SSBNs join the IN by 2020, how many of them will go out on regular patrols? Or will they be confined to IN’s naval bases like the PLAN’s SSBNs had been until last year? This & this alone will determine how many SSGNs the IN wants to lease.

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) No. That was just my suggestion. 2) Order another three Scorpene fitted with AIP running on lithium batteries. 3) There’s only 1 choice now: order the Black Sharks without any further delay.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: And where will the money come from for providing all these LPHs with escort warships? In the Indian scheme of things, power projection through expeditionary warfare is not on the cards neither is it required.

Here’s something about a failed attempt in 1998 to kill Dawood Ibrahim:

Chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEKbGU5zWLk

To PAWAN: VMT. No need to pay obeisance to anyone. What’s reqd is meticulous planning & intelligent executions of such plans. VP of Taiwan has scouting for business opportunities there. If you see the following documentary on ISIL in Afghanistan, you will realise why. While ISIS is blaming China, Pakistan & its ISI along with Hafiz Saeed as the main supporters of the Afghan Taliban, the Afghan Taliban in turn are blaming Pakistan for creating the spectre of ISIS inside Afghanistan! Looks like either way now China & Pakistan are now damned!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYfBeeUzVME&hd=1

To RAD: Saudis are just REACTING to the recent Iranian threats made to Pakistan.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MANU PRADIP: That’s because anyone today that invests only on defence R & D is doomed. One needs to first understand the basic principles governing R & D investment quantums. All those countries that invested solely on military R & D first & later on civilian spinoffs are today’s developed nations. Why? Because these nations got cheap raw materials as well as labour from their colonies & therefore they all had surplus financial resources reqd for investing in military R & D since & after WW-1. Therefore, by the time these countries surrendered or lost their colonies, they all had a solid R & D foundation backed up with robust military-industrial infrastructure. Hence, after WW-2, they all could focus on civilian technological spinoffs while at the same time re-investing their profits earned through civilian sales into military R & D. That’s how they transformed themselves from national security states into welfare states. The USSR in contrast was never able to achieve such a transformation. As a result, even though it could develop & churn out the world’s largest submarines, it was never able to build even decent toaster or microwave ovens!

For developing countries like India, it is impossible to commit enormous funds into military R & D alone. Instead, one needs to fo0llow the South Korean or Taiwanese models (as China has done) that call for first investing in R & D meant for consumer products (which guarantee assured profits due to large sales volumes), & then developing military spinoffs. For instance, if India focuses only on developing military radars, it will be uneconomical for any private-sector company or DPSU to develop everything 100% indigenously due to the small numbers of such radars that’s reqd. Instead, if the main focus of R & D is on developing ATC radars & ATM systems, then the sales volume will automatically increase, which in turn will enable the firms/OEMs to invest their profits (from civilian product sales) into military spinoff products. The same applies to development of aircraft & ships. Without a vibrant commercial shipbuilding industry, all efforts to develop industries dedicated to building only warships will be unsustainable, just like the USSR found out by 1991. So, if one wants sustainable infusion of R & D funds for developing military radars, then one must first develop civilian radar products. For every 1 military radar reqd, there’s a reqmt for 10 civilian radars. That’s the kind of business volume that one requires for any ‘Make in India’ policy to succeed. In another example, just look at the booming industry for civilian drones in China & what kind of money that then becomes available for military R & D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlswSC0rQqQ&hd=1

birbal said...

Morning Prasun da,
Hello blog readers..

Hope you all find these interesting-

http://i-hls.com/2015/11/new-material-to-protect-from-electronic-surveillance/

Ni8 Dweller said...

Thanks Prasun da for your valuable insights. As always a pleasure to read it all here.

Ni8Dweller

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Thanks for your answer for my previous question. Recently I heard lot of noise related to intolerance cases raises in India.

In one of the Pak discussion forum, many are saying that Pakistan don’t want Nukes to destroy India. India is getting destroyed itself daily. Intolerance & other social unwanted things are increasing and India is moving towards destruction. Only question is “WHEN” it is going to get disintegrate completely.

Is it possible for India to get divided into Hindu-Muslim Country again? In this case all world powers are also happy to see India get disintegrated.
Do you buy this theory? Please explain.

Thanks & Regards
S.Kumar

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To S KUMAR: That would be a dream come true for many a Pakistani, but they're yet again completely mis-reading the ground realities. Firstly, their interpretation of Hindu-Muslim or Hindu-Sikh communal tensions is way off-the-mark because they're using the British constructs of Hindu/Hinduism for basing their conclusion. In reality, it is cultural--not religious--homogenity (the way of life) that binds a country together. And such all-pervading cultural homogenity in India is derived from the age-old global concept of 'Dharma'. It is cultural homogenity that forms a far stronger & all-pervasive binding glue for societies & communities & accords a person a high-sense of self-esteem. Even in countries like Afghanistan, cultural homnogenity binds all the communities there & this takes precedence over religious values/edicts & that's why one sees today's Afghanistan being at constant loggerheads with Pakistan. Same goes for Iran-Pakistan relations.

It is this global concept of 'Dharma' that has shaped & conditioned the minds of almost all Indian--regardless of religious affiliation--since their birth that enables Indians anywhere in the world to fuse & co-exist with all non-Indian communities & societies in any corner of the world. That's why you will NEVER find any ghettos of Indian or Iranian or Parsi or Sikh communities abroad, But you will find Muslim community ghettos & Chinatowns. Though Christianity has imbibed elements of cultural homogenity from the 'Dharma' concept, Islam did not & that's the reason why the Holy Prophet had to come up with his personal diary (the Al Hadis) in order to explain all that was left unexplained in the Holy Quran.

All this is, however, beyond the understanding of an average Pakistan-educated Pakistani since--as I had explained earlier--they are in a far less evolved state & therefore are devoid of civilisational enlightenment from an intellectual standpoint. Hence they always perceive the world through tunnel-vision & consequently, almost inevitably, end up on the wrong side of history.

And sadly, folks like Shah Rukh Khan make matters worse through their shallow utterances because they too end up oversimplifying the issue when delivering soundbytes. What he should have said was that it is always far better to stick to universal, core religious values, all of which preach tolerance & peaceful co-existence, instead of falling prey to tendencies of ill-conceived RELIGIOSITY. But by not using this term, & instead by using the term 'religious intolerance', he only ended up inviting otherwise unwanted publicity. This is what happens when folks desist from going into the details.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PALLAB/BIRBAL: VMT. Excellent find!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To S KUMAR: Do read these:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/PM-Modi-launches-gold-monetization-scheme/articleshow/49670867.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Intolerance-has-always-existed-Niti-Aayogs-Bibek-Debroy/articleshow/49666174.cms

S KUMAR said...

When did Iran threaten pakiland? Do you have any insider info?
On the news its brother-brother.
Some important iranians have been visiting pak on regular basis over the last year or so and my impression was that are getting on well, going by the postive news on pak in iranina press, like presstv.

Manu Pradip said...

@prasun sir @ Nair M, thanks fo r the detailed replies. 1) Sir, there is news that we are leasing 1more SSN from Russia my question is why can't we buy it instead of leasing? 2) Any news regarding ijt sitara spin & stall tests? there are some rumours that it failed, if so how will Iaf rearrange their 3 stage training? 3) I read somewhere rustom-2 require ATOL for flight safety, What is this ATOL?

Arpit Kanodia said...

@S Kumar We are all hearing this rhetoric that India is on verge of breaking, but did India broke in last 70 years?

It was Pakistan that broke some 45 years ago. And those Pakistanis who thinking that India break because of socio-economic faultlines, they even know about there own faultlines?

You know in FATA and Waziristan, the Pakistan laws are inapplicable by there own constitution? No Pakistani ever dare to explain why no govt. in last 70 years tried to bring civil administration and rule of law in those areas?

And tell you what about India, even during worst days of Punjab and Kashmir, always there was civil administration.

Now, conclude yourself who going to break.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Thanks for your answer.

By going through their Discussion forums, this educated Paki guys are thinking that after they developed the nuclear bomb they feel proud that they have achieved a big thing which other big countries like KSA, TURKEY cannot do it. And they think that they can bring down India by any means and they start comparing India with them in all fields.

Whether these guys know what is their country’s strength & Weakness or they are leaving in fool’s paradise. And moreover they think begin a Muslim country, other Muslim countries like KSA & Turkey will help them during war with India & finally they will win the war.

Can you explain the average educated Paki mindset?

Thanks
S.Kumar

Rajas M Rao said...

Hi,
Its a very well-thought out article. But regarding some of the concerns mentioned in the article, close air support in particular, I've heard that 2nd squadron (Winged Arrows, Tezpur), who fly Su-30 MKI is dedicated to close-air support. So depending on the operational demands, isn't it possible that IAF will customise operational payloads depending on the mission requirements?

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

"Durand Line is a Symbol of Slavery for Baloch and Pashtun Nations"
http://aftribune.com/durand-line-is-a-symbol-of-slavery-for-baloch-and-pashtun-nations/

Proving one more Prasun Da's prediction true...

alexi said...

Why are all the well know Indians returning their national awards?

The reason they are all giving is due to the intolerance in India since Modi got elected. This is all over the news in the west. How much truth is there?

sweet said...

TO ALL...

What is happening is shameful, but remain calm and composed.

I don't believe that there has been rise in "intolerance", there was this same kind of "intolerance" in past government too. But the incidents have now started to gather lot of attention because its modi's government. Neither the "whole" population of adivasis or Christians or Muslims are in fear as stated by some one today. May she pulled it out of her arse or just a figment of her imagination. If she wanted to return, she could have returned it in silence-like rest of others- rather pulling things from her backside and making horse-crap public statements-which has quite become a peculiar character of this lady.

And lastly, there is a difference between those returning awards and a leader.

keep calm and keep doing the right things.

Anonymous said...

Alexi,
Whatever news the west gets about India comes from leftist Indian journalists or anti-Indian (kind of racial) western journalists from NYT, The Economist. They always project Hinduism in a bad way- the most intolerant religion and evil religion. This makes way for evangelists to come and sow the seeds of conversion.
"The intolerance" is in news in India and West is because, just today one major state completed its state election. The major parties are NDA (group involves regional parties and BJP) and another group consists of parties of Lalu Prasad Yadhav (a corrupt politician), COngress (the party took India to downwards by multiple of corruptions) and another party (JD-U, an estranged former partner of NDA). Everybody in India knows 2nd group is the most corrupt. There is no denial. But NDA had advantage before the election, because it is less corrupt than the other group and stress more on developments than the other parties. So there should be a way to change the people's mandate.
So the best way is to start rumor and bring the different communities into riots, artificial scarcity, etc. For example: The price of tomatoes, onions, dals (pulses) a key staple foods for Indians sky rocketed, but government started raiding against hoarders.
Unfortunately, there were some riots happened in between on cow.

The Communists, the most dirtiest party, is notorious for hurting the sentiments of Hindus and arranged a "Beef Festival" in a Devaswam college (my alma mater) in Thrissur, Kerala, where there is a rule that no meat is allowed to serve, being a college run by Hindu administrations (but actually mostly communists). But the communists know that Hindus will question and and that was what happened. I was told that the communists were well prepared to make this event a big issue and wanted to make a big trouble. It hurts me personally because not only as a Hindu and but also it is a good college with a lot of talents; not only in academic but also in sports such as football, Volleyball, Basketball etc, but the politics (especially the communism) spoils the campus and education.

So to support anti-NDA movement, the left intellectuals (mouth piece of Western media) started returning the awards they received; most of them got the awards not by merit, but just being leftists and anti-Hindus. So that is why it is a big news in Western Media. After all not many western government (especially Vatican) didn't like when a Hindu government came to power. Even a leftist film maker said something like this "Indians did a grave mistake by voting Modi to power." This means that Hindus cannot vote another Hindu whatever be the status of Hindus in India; do you see the hidden message there?

RaviN

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To S KUMAR: Haven’t you been watching all the YouTube weblinks that I’ve posted since mid-2014? There you have had Pakistani analysts exposing what’s been going on along the Sistan-Baluchistan border. Talking about ‘brotherly ties’, since when do brothers on good terms squeal about one another? Haven’t you recently read about Rafsanjani blurting out everything about Dr A Q ‘Bhopali’ Khan’s involvement in the Iranian nuclear WMD programme, codenamed Project 111? Yes, I do have ‘insider’ information since I’m a regular visitor to Afghanistan (for extending product-support to the Afghan Mi-17V-5s on a contract-basis) & when you talk to visiting Iranian officials there, they, along with the Afghans, always say that ISIS/ISIL in Afghanistan is nothing else but the creation of Pakistan. Check out this YouTube weblink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYfBeeUzVME&hd=1

As for the average Pakistani mindset, it is a product of that country’s education curriculum, which is rife with distorted history & consequently this exacerbates Pakistan’s already serious internal tensions, according to new research commissioned by the US Institute of Peace. At the same time, literacy rates and primary school enrollment are falling. Here, absorb this from a Pakistani who has researched it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3FiS2qseeA

You will be surprised to discover that hardly any Pakistani remembers how his/her country’s first coup was mounted. The first coup in 1952 was NOT MOUNTED by the men in Khaki, but by the civilian bureaucrats. The men in khaki stepped in only in 1957. Similarly, due to the distorted historical curriculum, the average Pakistani as well as the country’s elites suffer from the ‘zaroorat se ziada thekedaari’ syndrome, meaning a perpetual inclination to bite more than one can chew. This comes out quite clearly in Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri’s recent autobiography. And that’s why after OBL’s killing in May 2011, the only country in the world that hosted mock funeral processions in honour of OBL was Pakistan.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MANU PRADIP: Already answered your 1st question earlier & above. 2) The HJT-36 IJT has already spinned & stalled into antiquity & will probably grace only HAL’s museum. The IAF doesn’t want it, & never wanted it ever since the PC-7 Mk2 BTTs started entering service. I hope the same fate befalls the HTT-40 BTT too, since it is a sheer waste of the Indian taxpayer’s money. 3) ATOL = automatic takeoff & landing, i.e. autopilot.

To S KUMAR: Just as a literate person can’t be assumed to be an educated one as well, in the same way an educated person need not necessarily be an enlightened personality.

To RAJAS M RAO: The Su-30MKIs at Tezpur are equipped with EL/M-2060P SAR pods for real-time battlespace surveillance for detecting movements of PLA formations & vehicle convoys on the ground. Their only deep-strike target with Kh-59ME PGMs are the ATC centre at Lhasa Gonggar airport & the long-range airspace surveillance radar at the nearby Gamballa Mountain-top.

To ALEXI: Intolerance—be it manifesting itself through religiosity or through racism or through sectarianism—is a global phenomenon & exists even in developed countries. In the Indian context, if you want to quantify intolerance in order to prove its increase or decrease, then do read this:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Intolerance-has-always-existed-Niti-Aayogs-Bibek-Debroy/articleshow/49666174.cms

As for those returning awards, why did they accept such awards in the first place if they always desired to hold the moral high-ground? Any self-respecting person worthy of such awards should firstly be thankful to the authority/agency bestowing such awards thereby recognising their talents, & secondly, immediately after that they should decline acceptance of such awards, for they were never doing their good work in anticipation of winning such awards. But that is very very rarely the case. Therefore, I personally regard such awardees as opportunistic hypocrites. After all, where was their conscience when the Sikhs were massacred in Delhi in the fall of 1984? Where was their conscience when the Indian Bengali settlers were being forcefully evicted from Assam, Tripura & Meghalaya? Where was their conscience when the Kashmiri Pandits were being massacred throughout the Kashmir Valley in the late 1980s & early 1990s?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAVI N: One call live with the rest, for they're akin to skin cancer. But the Leftists are akin to leukaemia/bone cancer/galloping cancer! But this was expected, especially after the top-level reshuffles within the Left Front, with Sitaram Yechury now eager to consolidate his leadership through both hyperbole & provocations aimed at inciting mob-violence.

G said...

@ RaviN

Thats some powerful Stuff you smoked! ... just nit-picking here !

"Riots happened because of COW" as Unfortunate?? .... Its DISGRACE to ALL of US, killing of a Man because of what he ALLEGEDLY ATE?

We dont need western media , when our own politicians are enough to again DISGRACE us, any body is criticizes ... is called Leftest, anti national and Pakistani!

Also Vatican? Still trying to think what they have to do with all whats happening, is though independent and recognized as such - Has ZERO say in world affairs

lachit said...

@G

***"Riots happened because of COW" as Unfortunate?? .... Its DISGRACE to ALL of US, killing of a Man because of what he ALLEGEDLY ATE?***

yes ur correct

especially when a few days before the dadri incident , a hindu motorcyclist who was lynched by a muslim mob for blowing his bikes horn to clear the namazies who had spilled into the street.

what is the worth of a hindu life for hyprocrates and sickularist? , just give us the number of hindus who have to die at the hands of mobs so that their deaths can make it in to headlines or inspire the shameless intellectuals into returning their awards .
10 20 50 60 80 100?
yes mr. G it is, it is a DISGRACE to ALL of US, when human life is weighted through the narrow prism of sickularism, ooops i am sorry i meant only the hindus should be accoutable for murder rape etc etc
others get a free run
i did not want to reply , it is frutile , india is cursed it always has been, it always will have jaichands type mfs.

lachit said...

continue....

i am a ordinary person who unfortunately is proud of his religion and wants to see everybody learn from the good in hinduism or what ever name anybody might use for it.
i guess for sickularist and fake intellectuals there can be a proud christian , a proud muslim even though in th past they have killed millions of people in the name of religion, but hinduism dont have that achievement to boast of.
therefor i/or any hindu cant be proud to be a hindu since it does not have a murderous past.
and as a hindsight to sickularist plz dont mention godhra in reply, i hope u all know the value of zero after 1 after all it was a gift of hindu philosophers)
i could never understand why the hindus dont have the guts to retaliate like the muslims, 1000 years gone still learnt nothing and i dont think we will ever learn to defend ourselves.
i am old now will die soon so what the hell!!
it is better to read prasuns comments and enjoy raw13s jokes now and then

G said...

When I said its a DISGRACE to ALL OF US !!!. I Meant it as US being INDIAN!!! and damn Proud of IT

If you doing to turn EVERYTHING INTO a Religion attitude... say " hindus should be accoutable for murder rape etc etc"??? Who say these things??? and the Hindu motorcyclist lynched??? where is this news???...

All this hatred starts from US!!!... We Have to start behave as INDIAN!!!... then Life in our country will be less sucky !!!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LACHIT: LoLz! Why this sudden & spectacular outpouring of frustration? Take it easy & chill out. Yes, India may well be cursed, but there are also many other countries around India's periphery that are far more cursed than India is. Far more worse is happening in those countries, be it Nepal or Myanmar or Pakistan. But does that mean that no corrective action should be taken in India? of course not. The law of the land should be allowed to take its own course & the law-enforcement agencies of the country should be allowed to perform their constitutionally mandated functions without any hiccup. And only therein lies salvation.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LACHIT: Hindus didn't have a murderous past??? What did Ashoka do in the battle of Kalinga? History is replete with examples of conquests & armed tussles between competing empires & kingdoms in both ancient & medieval India. They may well have not been undertaken in the name of religion, but they all indeed form part of our murderous legacy. And at the same time, there's no need to be apologetic about it, since it was always a global phenomena & hence no one can claim to be holier than thou.

lachit said...

@G
no disrespect to u but everything that has been said or done in the media / blogs has been due to the religion factor.
like headless idiots we have let the law take a backsit and given into meaningless hysteria casued by sickularist and political opportunist.
every murder is a crime. who gave it a religious angle .
we cannot replace administrative law and order machinery with sickularist nutjobs/presstitudes.

the lynching i mentioned happened in UP i found it in a blog where a snapshot of a local newspaper clipping mentioned it . it was posted even before dadri happened. u can try googling it.


@prasun
lolzz
that is why u need to step up the frequency of ur comments/articles(it is quite regular already lolzz).but more the merrier including very long posts .
good way to chill and keep oneself distracted away from the nonsense happening in the country.

i especially like ur post on ET aliens etc ,
i guess i was born in the wrong time should have been born in the future where space explorations / expeditions will be taking place . much better way to live a worthy life.and hopefully with no religions doctrines etc
regards

lachit said...

@prasun

i meant like the crusades inqusitions spanish expeditions sactioned to bring christainity to the pagans etc
i meant like the wars waged in the name of jihad to cleanse the kafirs and to spread the muslim world under the banner of islam.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To LACHIT: Alright! In that case, allow me to share with you & BUDDHA this interesting presentation:

Sumerian Artifacts & Ancient Astronauts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t353wXnd30

alexi said...

I have read all the comments, thank you. What I gather from these comments is that, this intolerance is due to the left wing parties or that it is part of the indian society?

To get a clearer idea: did people get killed for example over rumours of eating beef prior to Modi being elected?

The reports here are saying that Indian ministers are behind the beef ban.

Also there are regular reports that any Indian who speaks against this intolerance or Modi are being told to leave india by the parties that are in government. How true are these reports? Did this also happen before in India? What do see on the ground and in your press reports?

alexi said...

I do agree, intolerance is everywhere. But what is surprising most people in the west is the reports that the intolerance in India is actually led by the Indian PM himself, especially against the minorities. This is why I thought I would ask the indians themselves to get a true picture. No offence intended.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ALEXI: Intolerance is due to neither of them. Instead, it is arising out of deep-rooted frustration among the youth of the country because they're being denied job opportunities, thanks to a decade of jobless growth-rate of the Indian economy. This frustration in turn is being sought to be milked in order to make electoral gains during state-level elections. People used to get killed for the flimsiest of reasons far far far before anyone called NaMo even entered politics, leave along getting elected to any public office! And this happens anywhere where the folks aren't educated. Of course there will always be folks who speak irresponsibly, but all of them who have thus far are not holding any official position within the Govt of India. Consequently, it cannot be claimed or proven that any kind of prevailing intolerant attitudes have official govt sanction. There's only 1 country that's been claiming that minorities in India are in mortal danger, & that is obviously Pakistan.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Meanwhile, just as Allah had willed, here's more headache for Pakistan:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-born-Sikh-defence-minister-of-Canada/articleshow/49666362.cms

Jay Bhanushali said...

Hindu lives dont matter to pseudo intellectuals, neoliberals, 'secularists' ,prestitute media of india or the world at large.

Just like in america if a black teen is killed by white police then all hell breaks loose but if a white teen is kill by the police then it is largely ignored by mainstream liberal media.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/62-get-life-term-for-marad-killings/411268/

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/marad-report-slams-muslim-league/13497/

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/it-was-not-a-random-attack-on-s6-but-kar-sevaks-were-targeted-says-judge/article1513008.ece

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/antihindu-rhetoric-nothing-new-for-atheist-dmk-chief/219610/0

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-tamilnadu/article3031473.ece

http://www.newsgram.com/heard-of-moodbidri-killing-of-hindu-youth-on-oct-9/

http://m.ndtv.com/karnataka-news/8-arrested-in-bajrang-dal-activists-murder-in-karnataka-1234906

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Indian-writers-guilty-of-double-standards-when-it-comes-to-dissent-Taslima-Nasrin/articleshow/49425201.cms

Jay Bhanushali said...

Earlier this year a 71 year old christian nun was gang raped at a convent in west bengal.

The media and the opposition went crazy and blamed central government of modi and bjp for the incident, even the state government of WB run by TM congres blamed RSS and Hindu groups.
Reuters,cnn,bbc all had front page articles on it.

http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/idINKBN0MC13520150316?irpc=932

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-31887764

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/14/asia/nun-raped-in-india/

There were rallies held,candles lit etc

http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/pune/christians-rally-against-bengal-nun-rape-attack-on-churches/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2996731/Indian-nun-71-gang-raped-six-men-Christian-school-prays-forgiveness-revealed-assaulted-tried-prevent-men-attacking-woman.html

But when the police investigation revealed that the RAPISTS WERE Bangladeshi MUSLIMs no one even reported it. Suddenly the media completely gave up the issue and so did the 'secular' indians.

There was no follow up report on CNN,BBC or Reuters........ How convenient...lol

http://pamelageller.com/2015/03/muslims-arrested-in-gang-rape-of-nun-in-india.html/

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/crime/bengal-nun-gangrape-first-arrest-made-by-cid-from-mumbai/

Jay Bhanushali said...

In india if a dalit, muslim,christian woman is raped then the news report always mentions the minority religion or the fact that she was a dalit as if all rapists ask the women their religion or caste before they rape them and implying that only upper caste hindu men committ rapes
I am also yet to see a news report mentioning a Bhramin or Kshatriya (both are upper casts) woman being raped
Now thats double standards right there..
It portrays a picture of persecution of minorities
Which is Grossly exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/mysuru-4-held-for-raping-dalit-girl/1/496944.html

http://www.freepressjournal.in/dalit-girl-raped-by-dairy-owner/

http://wap.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/minor-dalit-girl-raped-and-murdered-115102500195_1.html

http://m.timesofindia.com/city/coimbatore/Dalit-woman-alleges-she-was-raped-by-AIADMK-cadres-son/articleshow/49332671.cms

The western media pounces on this and declares india a rape capital when in truth ,per capita rapes in india are among the lowest in the world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

India has 1.8 rapes / 100000 women / year
USA has 27.3 rapes / 100000 women / year
South africa 132 rapes / 100000 women/ year

financeblogger said...

Here's another article from bandalbazz.

http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/blow-for-tata-motors-defence-ambitions-115110600051_1.html


1) Mr. Prasun, seeking clarification wrt Tata Motors eligibility criteria for FICV project as stated in the article.

Further to the above

2) If true, then which other projects would Tata Motors be not eligible for or is it just FICV specific?

Jay Bhanushali said...

Hinduism or more appropriately the 'Sanatan Dharma' is rediculed for being polytheistic and cow and idol worshipers.
But in reality it is THE MOST GENDRE NEUTRAL, RACE NEUTRAL, DEMOCRATIC, LIBERAL , ACCOMODATIVE , OPEN TO CHANGE , PEACEFULL religion out of the major religions of the world

You can worship a dark skinned krishns or rama,
You can worship an ape like Hanuman
You can worship a (ardha nari ardha purush) Gender fluid SHIVA
You can worship a BLACK GODDESS KALI
You can worship a stone Which resembles a Dick
Hell, you can worship an Elephant god that sits on a Mouse
Or even worship the Bad guy in the Ramayana mythology ie Ravana
Or you can worship any of the millions of other Gods and Goddesses
Or
NOT BELIEVE IN GOD AT ALL AND QUESTION THE VERY EXISTANCE OF ANY GOD or be agnostic

You can still be a Sanatan Dharmi.

This is called true democratisation of god

If you work hard enough you can even become god yourself

Eg GAUTAM BUDDHA, VARDHAMAN MAHAVIRA and more recently SHRI SHIRDI SAI BABA who was a Muslim.

ALSO, since there is Reincarnation,
You really dont have to go to hell ever.. Even if you sin as much as you want, your karma will decide your fate in this very lifetime.
So basically you can be IMMORTAL if you are a Sanatan Dharmi.

No wonder Sanatan Dharma has withstood the test of time
It is the most convenient religion ever if one can even call it a religion.
It gives you freedom to choose what to believe.
Its so old, there isnt even a real ritual to convert someone in the scriptures!!
We dont have an exact word in sanskrit or pali for 'religion'
The very concept of religion and secularism is a western concept which is alien to the Indian subcontinent and even south east asia and east asia to a great extent.

Jay Bhanushali said...

In USA it is impossible to win even a local election for a mayors job if the candidate declares himself as agnostic or atheist
In india there are openly atheist Chief Ministers (Governors) of States the size of Germany since decades.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karunanidhi

Can an American imagin a democracy so tolerant that it elects communist party government full of left wing atheist politicians in several states for several decades

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_parties_in_India

http://m.ndtv.com/photos/news/30-years-of-left-rule-in-west-bengal-10438#&ui-state=dialog

We gave the Anglo indian community Reservations after indipendence fo god sake. These were offspring of the people who had enslaved us for 200 years
If that is not the epitome of tolerance then i dont know what is?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_political_positions_in_India

Jay Bhanushali said...

I am so sick of the prestitute indian media that i feel nauseous even at the thought of watching a news channel.
Even new age media like twitter is filled with unemployed retards with a strong herd mentality
If this is what freedom of press means then I preferr a democracy which has 3 pillers rather than four...

Sorry prasun sir for the outburst.
I know this is not the right forum for these issues but i had to get it out of my system
Very very sorry for my multiple comments but i felt it important to present my views.
Hope you wont mind it too much...

Rajesh Mishra said...

Indians in general and especially the so-called Hindus seem to be the most tolerant people on the earth. Perhaps reason being that they do not have any practice of the things like inquisition and Jihad.

rad said...

to jay
I join issue with you ,Sonia ghandi and her lumpkin arse hole ministers nearly succeeded in bringing an anti hindu bill in the name of minorities protection bill. NO where in the world do things like this happen to the majority ,especially hindus being 80% of the population. She being a christian,Rajiv being a muslim and man mohan being a sikh who dint care .
. Indra was an atheist for most of her life apart form visiting temples to gain votes.Nehru was busy screwing around rather than concentrating on governance.This family has ruined india and we have got used to it .just like helpless woman being raped continuously ,the country has been raped by this family in the the name of socialism and secularism born out of the ramparts of JNU.
AK Anthony the destroyer of indian defense preparedness, was honest enough to admit that the congress has been perceived as an anti hindu party after the landslide loss . The muslims now realize this hollering and chest beating about any thing is not going to bear fruit .Like the Shao bano case, reservation,terrorist action where the congress ministers heart bled for the slain muslim terrorists in the name of secularism.
Personally i think the intolerance today was created due to the intolerance shown by muslims leaders like owasi .When a professors hand was chopped off, when tasleema nasreen was attacked and hounded out , kamal hasans film was attacked, when salman rushdie was hounded by muslim fundamentalists their arse was licked by congress for votes , no one turned in their awards?!! what about kasmir pundits , sikhs etc. We should Ask kapil sibal, mani shankar iyer ,dig vijaya singh , and the like to give their daughters i n marriage to muslim mullas to prove their secularism and we will see their reaction,

When St Anthony landed up in kerala it was this sanatana dharma which allowed him to preach and convert . The then kerala king could have him killed easily.Imagine a hindu shankaracharya going to Rome or Saudi to preach hinduism 2000 years back.!!!ST Anthony then traveled to Tamilnad where he continued preach and convert.He was warned by the people to stop , he did not stop so they killed him.
ST Thomas mount area in chennai is named after him.

Anonymous said...

Jay Bhanishali,
Well said. You are one of the persons who are sick of prestitutes and Indian pseudo secularists. That is why the young Hindu Indians turning towards RSS, because they have been denied their rights, their culture and their history.

Being a Malayalee, we Hindus in Kerala have been the biggest victims of apartheid in Kerala. The Hindus have been victimized by Communists, Congress and Muslim League. The life of a Hindu is less worthier than a Christian, a Muslim and a Communist. The communists have screwed up Kerala like anything. The state lost everything, including the beautiful green nature, forests, etc. Education has been screwed up in Kerala.

At the recent "Beef Festival" by communists in Sree Kerala Varma College, communists wanted to make a big issue. My cousin lives next to this college, where I completed my college. He was saying, the night before this incident, there were couple of trucks parked next to the college, and certain people were busy in talking and moving things into truck and to the college. He could see bundles of things, probably swords and other arms.

When I was a student, I witnessed many violent incidences in college campus. It is quite common to brainwash the new comers to SFI membership. The new students have to come and sign the communist "welcome booth" before they can attend the classes.

In late 90s I met a very interesting IAS woman. She was in a committee set up in early 90s by central Govt to set up additional IITs and higher educations in India. Having only one IIT in South, Kerala had a good chance to get an IIT because even though Kerala was the most literate state, it didn't have any central institutions at that time. The communist government refused because they insisted that there should be politics based election in IIT, similar to JNU. The committee didn't agree and even now, there is no IIT and just one central institute (IISER) in Kerala, one engineering institute of national importance in Kerala (REC turned NIT). Kerala has one IIM. This is the state which boasts of 100% literacy.

Forget the farming, it is all gone in Kerala, except in a few pockets. No industry, no work ethics, Kerala is a typical non-performing asset of India. But money flows in, mainly from Mallu workers.

RaviN

Anonymous said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Intellectuals-come-out-in-support-of-Modi-govt/articleshow/49681835.cms

This is good.

RaviN

Rajesh Mishra said...

You are correct. The violence by Ashoka was owing to the global and historical practices of the then existing feudalism. But the canard against the Hinduism and India as on today is sponsored by the American Communists in the game of one upmanship against Prakash Kharat. I knew something like this was going to happen. It is all for the self-consolidation.

Anonymous said...

Alexi, Muslim and Christian children are less generous than atheist ones http://econ.st/1WCJvo5

Why?

RaviN

youngbengal said...

Namaskar Prasunda,

Here are some of my thoughts on which I beg your opinion. I like to read whatever I get on Indian history; specially on the history prior to any outside invasions. I've also visited many historical places. What I've noticed (please correct me if I'm wrong): Scholars were very much through in their respective fields. They usually did not take any thing for granted until they dig out the truth on their own. There were logical thinking and policy makers were visionary. They used to think deeply before the act. Whereas, today's Indian scholars (majority)are totally of a different kind! A few do strive to improve their job continuously. Even IIT'ans are blinds and deprived of such ancient attitude. Even high profile Indian architects, when they design a building, are unable to exploit the natural lights and breezes. They don't bother about the structure orientation. Instead, only copying the designs. Further, whatever skill we had, been diminished day by day with the use of advance technology and gadgets. Is that due to destruction of books by muslim invaders and stealing by brits? Did brits able to snap the knowledge chain successfully? Perhaps, this syndrome is prevalent in entire Indian peninsula.How we can regain our lost vision and way of thinking?

RAT said...

Prasun Thanks for answering my question. And now I have a thought that is lingering in my brain since long time I don't know if I am right or wrong but I have a reason to believe that AMCA is going to be shovelled. And it will be only Technology Demonstrator and a test bed for future avionics. India will join French-German consortium for stealth fighters as the money save in developing a full fledge AMCA on its own will be huge (e.g. Tejas). What do you think is it more of possibility or just something that I am over exaggerating? Awaiting response Thanks in advance

Kunal Jadhav said...

Sir,
Will India really gonna sell 4 attack helicopters to Afghanistan. If its true then Pakistan will have to start preparing for 2-front scenario like India.

http://idrw.org/will-india-deliver-attack-helicopters-to-afghanistan/

Why the frequency of War games of such large scale have increased dramatically by Indian Armed forces. Almost every month there is 1 or the other war games going on. Is it because India is preparing for War that u have predicted by end of this decade or just to stay vigilant.

Jay Bhanushali said...

Please let me clarify a few things.
I have no love for the RSS. I am not even a BJP supporter. I am also an Agnostic and don't really bother about Religion in the traditional sense.
I do like most but not all of what modi says most of the times and did vote for him in 2014.
But what i really care about is my society and my nation and its well being as it has a direct impact on the life of everyone and everything i love and hold dear.
I don't like religious people but i tolerate them.
Tolerance does not mean you have to agree with the other side .it means you have to agree to disagree respectfully. This goes both ways
That is where i have an issue with the prestitude media and the pseudo secular political parties.
They are intolerant to the views of the right wingers.
They believe that they are superior to the 'Hindutva wadi forces'
They believe they are better just because they wear better clothes and speak better english.
They also believe they will be respected and called intellectuals only if they are left leaning,populist, minority appeasing, non religious, and most importantly Hindu bashing. They do this to win approval from their peers.
This attitude tends to interfere with their job and the way they do it
This is what we call interviewer bias and selection bias in their news.

This is a tendency for humans to seek out people and information that supports a pre -conceived belief about a particular issue that has been formed prior to the interview .This means interviewers look to confirm a possibly shallow impression they may have formed of the candidate pre - interview, as opposed to having a more open outlook on the candidate’s abilities in this area.
This cause type 2 errors in the analysis.
Thus they tend to only confirm what they want to believe ,hence reinforcing that belief and then drawing conclusions based on such flawed analysis corrupting the mind of not only themselves and their peers but the masses at large and defaming the nation and society at large.
When enough people start believing something false it becomes the truth.(at least to those people with similar pre - conceived beliefs)
When these people are then confronted with the facts, their 'id' does not allow them to accept their fault and instead causes them to become intolarent to the person stating those facts. This only enrages that person and makes him form a negative impression and a vicious cycle begins leading to a chain reaction.
What you then get is Polarization of the intelligentsia as well as the masses and a deeply divided society.
All this because of preconceived notions, inherent prejudices and biases and the firm but false faith in the righteousness of their philosophy and an out of control 'ego'

Gopu said...

It seems like we repeat this conversation on religion every 2 years! I'll try to keep this short with only 2 points.

1) Hinduism is not a "religion" and cannot be compared w/ Islam or Christianity, at least not in the same sense of how Western scholars pit the ideas of religion, divinity, and their philosophical "isms" against each other as a series of antagonistic concepts vying for intellectual supremacy. In reality, this so-called "Hinduism" is actually a misnomer for Indian culture.

The overarching themes of dharma and syncretism have endured the test of centuries, compared to short-lived and fallacious European metaphysical/social thoughts (Marx being a prime example idea, considering that social organization is based on rational economic principles, instead of Marx writing about his orgasmic desires!). While the Soviet Union existed for less than a century, India has existed for thousands of centuries. Thus, the Indian political left is doomed to a similar fate and the sooner they die off the better.

Moreover, "Hinduism" has no problem with either Islam or Christianity so these religions should be openly accepted/tolerated by Indians. If any Islamic or Christian doctrine does have a problem with the concept of "Hinduism" (Indian culture), then we can definitely call a spade a spade (those people would clearly be anti-nationals).


Chada said...

Prasun,

You dont have much of a clue of how the sikhs see india in the west do you?
Just type in Sikh demos against india. Most sikhs here support Kalistan, especially so in Canada.

Gopu said...

2) Modern-day "Hindus" are ignorant of India's history and its traditions. Dharma and such religious concepts were discovered by sages through intense meditation thousands of years ago! What troubles me is that these ideas seem foreign to some new "Hindus" when in fact this is the cultural fabric of our identity!

If one studies our traditions mentioned above, one would discover that the RSS and Hindutva are a gross misrepresentation of Indian tradition. The RSS bears an uncanny resemblance to the Schutzstaffel, particularly because the RSS intellectuals carbon-copied the nascent European nationalist ideologies from the 1920's to match the Indian subcontinent.

After witnessing the failure of these ideologies from 1939-1945, the RSS distanced itself from these ideas and set itself up as a counter-reactionary force to the novel idea of Muslim nationalism, espoused the great crackpot Jinnah. If Pakistan was the ideal state for all muslims of the subcontinent, then ALL Indians must adhere to this non-existent, fictitious concept of "Hinduism" that would be the ideological contrast to Pakistani Islam.

Accepting this narrative would legitimize the idea of the 2-nation theory, which is chiefly a British invention and is WHOLLY anti-national in all regards. Pakistani intellectuals have fallen bait for this trap, and the RSS would lead India down this path.

Thus, I hope my cursory analysis explains to you guys India's dysfunctional, political system which is still intellectually grounded on European political ideas from the early 20th century (conflict between communists/leftists and fascists/nationalist extremists). In reality, both these concepts are antithetical to India and therefore we need a different way to represent the real, political ambitions of Indians (*cough cough* economic development!!!!).

Gopu said...

@ Chada

Yes, I've noticed this sentiment among Canadian and American Sikhs. One of them told me that they hated the Mahatma because his surname belonged to a family with a particular family-member named Indira (and the person assumed the two were related)!

I think a public apology for the mismanagement of religious tensions in the 1980's is long overdue, but at the same time these Sikh communities are ignorant of the fact that India has changed a lot since then.

In fact, the concept of India that I mentioned is based along the same lines of dharma and syncretism that gave birth to Sikhism. So Sikhism is in no way incompatible with India, but rather another integral part/cultural nuance of India's tradition.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To CHADA: You mean a few demos comprising some 80-odd folks holding placards & submitting memorandums calling for the creation of Khalistan by 2020! Why wait till 2020 if the overseas Sikh diaspora is so organised & determined (as you seem to insinuate) to realise the goal of Khalistan? Why not now? To me therefore, these pro-Khalistani Sikhs are something but dimwits who have nothing else to do.

To FINANCEBLOGGER: That story is based on what the DPP-2008 lays down as regulations. The yet-to-be-released DPP-2015 will change such regulations. And the 8 x 8 Kestrel is not being offered as FICV. The FICV will be a tracked vehicle.

Anonymous said...

This is written by an indian:

Today, we live in a country in which, when the thugs and apparatchiks of the New Order talk of “illegal slaughter”, they mean the imaginary cow that was killed — not the real man who was murdered. When they talk of taking “evidence for forensic examination” from the scene of the crime, they mean the food in the fridge, not the body of the lynched man. We say we have “progressed”, but when Dalits are butchered and their children burned alive, which writer today can freely say, like Babasaheb Ambedkar once did, that “to the untouchables, Hinduism is a veritable chamber of horrors”, without getting attacked, lynched, shot or jailed? Which writer can write what Saadat Hasan Manto wrote in his “Letters to Uncle Sam”? It doesn’t matter whether we agree or disagree with what is being said. If we do not have the right to speak freely, we will turn into a society that suffers from intellectual malnutrition, a nation of fools. Across the subcontinent it has become a race to the bottom — one that the New India has enthusiastically joined. Here too now, censorship has been outsourced to the mob.

RaviN

Gopu said...

@ RAT

The French plan to keep their omni-role Rafale in service for a long time so their next fighter project won't start in earnest until some time in between 2030-2040. The AMCA is supposed to be in service by 2035-2040. And the French project would probably build another omni-role type plane, which is not the AMCA's operational role.

Although we could scrap the AMCA plane and go for a Rafale successor with France, which would come out around 2040-2050. The AMCA (if it succeeds) will anyways have inputs from the French aviation industry, regardless.

Germany will have to find a replacement for the Panavia Tornado at an earlier date (unless they decide they no longer need such an operational capability anymore).

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GOPU: Excellent dissection & extremely well-put & explained. \! It's about time all colonial constructs like Hinduism, Hindustan etc etc along with their 'desi' colonial-era constructs like 'sanatana' are discarded once & for all, and instead the emphasis ought to be on the original fundamentals of 'Dharma' sanskriti. Once this is done, there will be no need at all to compare the concept of Dharma with the world's existing monotheistic theological religions like Christianity or Islam. The flip-side of this, however, will be that tens of millions of folks from RSS, BJP, Bajrang Dal, ABVP etc etc will be rendered jobless & resourceless & they therefore would put up a tough fight in order to keep their stomachs well-fed. I would probably say to them: bring'em on. Let's see who finally prevails in this dharamyudh.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To YOUNGBENGAL: It has nothing to do with the destruction of books by muslim invaders and stealing by brits, or the brits snapping the knowledge chain. If the brits were to do this, then they wouldn't have created the Asiatic Society or School of Oriental Studies or encouraged Indologists to venture out as far as Lhasa to discover & study the ancient Tibetan manuscripts. It is all about prevailing subcontinental mindsets that have been conditioned by up to nine previous generations of colonial constructs like the Aryan invasion, Hinduism, Hindustan etc etc. In ancient times, education was knowledge-based & value-based. In medieval times this degenerated to just-about value-based education, while the demands of industrialisation called for skills-based education. In the 21st century, therefore, folks are hardput to find time for rediscovering the past scientific and cultural heritage & therefore they opt for oversimplified solutions & formulas, i.e. recipes tailored for the gullible.

Closer to home, an example of regressive mindsets can be found in the present-day WB state govt's refusal to accord permission for building VVER-1000 PWRs for nuclear power generation at Haripur, citing safety concerns. On the other hand, Bangladesh has already signed a contract with Russia to build exactly the very same PWRs. So will this make WB more safe or less safe in case there's a radioactive leak from the Bangladesh PWRs in the event of an accident? And can we blame the Muslims or Brits for such regressive mindsets?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Afghanistan-turns-to-India-for-military-helicopters-likely-to-rile-Pakistan/articleshow/49684403.cms

These will be Mi-25s, that were upgraded in the past with IAI-supplied mission avionics & sensors. They will be shipped to Chah Bahr in knocked-down condition & will be re-assembled in southwestern Iran itself at an air base in Konarak, Zahedan, & then they will fly into Afghanistan.

rahul said...

Sir, I would like to know about the bvr capacity of SU30 mki in respect to its radar and missiles. Secondly can you give the details of bvr missiles used by IAF along with their range. Thirdly about tejas. Why they combat radius of tejas is only 300 KM? Despite lower weight and almost same fuel capacity to its Pakistani counterpart. Lastly on domestic front how long will take MR. Modi to show his strength to shut the loose canons of BJP?

mg6357 said...

Prasunji,

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/lch-set-to-achieve-final-clearance-in-november/article7850155.ece

Look at this. Is this really true ? Has LCH completed testing and all trials ?

Who will be inducting it the first ?---->Army or Air Force ?
What will be the possible rate of serial production and at what facility will HAL be manufacturing these helicopters (because Bengaluru facility is already producing Dhruv) ?

Is this the reason we decided to donate our Mi-35s to Afghanistan ? Will we end up donating all of our Mi-35s eventually or just 4 Mi-35s ?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAHUL: Data on R-77/RVV-AE is already posted on previous threads. As is data on R-27R & R-27T. Those are the principal BVRAAMs of the IAF. Mirage 2000Is & Rafales will have Mica family of BVRAAMs, followed by Derby on the LCA. Combatradius of the JF-17 won't exceed that of Tejas Mk1. That's why they are referred to as L-MRCAs. The loose cannons can be down down permanently in less than 48 hours, if reqd. One phone-call from Obama to NaMo will see to it that this is done. For if this is not done, the flow of 'Rokraa' into the country will stop. And every Gujarati understands what that would mean for India.

To MG6357: So far, only 65 LCHs have been ordered by the IAF. The IA hasn't ordered any. Both fixed-wing & rotary-winged platforms require IOC & FOC from the MoD's DGAQ(A) AFTER the successful conclusion of user-evaluations. The term final clearance refers to only the certification of airworthiness issued by CEMILAC for the platform in green condition. How can user-evaluations even commence when the LCH's prototypes have not even been fitted with their self-protection suites & full weapons complement? In their absence, how will one be able to calculate & certify the all-up weight of the LCH & out to what altitudes? Does the HAL official interviewed by this dimwit from THE HINDU believe that all the outstanding fitments are absolutely weightless or lighter-than-air??? If the IAF claims that the LCH's main role will be to shoot down hostile UAVs, then why has it also specified ATGMs as the weapons-fit? Does it intend to shoot down UAVs with ATGMs???

No Mi-35Ps for Afghanistan, only four upgraded Mi-25s. Read my previous comment above.

SATYAM said...

Prasun,

I ralize it is your blog but some asshats are busy trolling here. Posting irrelevant topics first and thereafter starting their nonsensical rants.

Will you please DELETE those irrelevant posts now and going forward so that we can stick to the actual facts/figures that you put out.

Thanks

Siddharth Dhapola said...

Hi prasun !
1. How long before we see the first super su30mki ?
What are changes that will be made ? Any structural changes, for stealth characteristics, ?
2. When will the SLEP upgrade of Delhi class take place ?

rad said...

hi Prasun
the r-27t and r-27t are old missiles and have a very poor PK record in actual combat. They may be long legged but in effective ,Why doesn't the IAF dump them and go for the aa-11 totally ?. Am i right in assuming their effectiveness. ??The IR version does not have IIR so again it is vulnerable to flares .There were talks of fitting them with IIR seekers and active radars seekers what happened to them.?

rad said...

sorry should be aa-12 missile above.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Thanks for your comments.

Regarding Syrian war, the end result will be Syria like Iraq will be divided
into many countries in sectarian line.

Kurds in Iraq and Syria will form a new country later which will fight against
turkey to form greater Kurdistan.

Is it correct. Please give your opinion.

Thanks & Regards,
S.Kumar
(Senthil Kumar)

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SATYAM: LoLz! I too am waiting for anyone to make meaningful observations regarding the US$4 billion question that still remains unanswered: how exactly should one go about the process of procuring the required 250 fourth-generation L-MRCAs comprising a mix of the IAF-specific version of the LCA (Navy) Mk.1 and the projected Tejas Mk.2 and in what kind of timeframe?

To SIDDHARTH DHAPOLA: 1) Sometime in 2018 at the earliest. Details & illustrations were posted in different threads over the past 2 years. 2) The SLEP is long overdue, 5 years overdue to be precise.

To RAD: The R-27T will be effective only against those aircraft that are devoid of MAWS. Against such aircraft the R-27T will be devastating. There are quite a few combat aircraft of India's adversaries that don't have MAWS. Aircraft equipped with MAWS can provide advanced warning of inbound AAMs of any type, including those fitted with IIR seekers.

To S KUMAR: Not necessarily. But there will be power-sharing among the various communities & such arrangements will be implemented on a gradual basis so that a smooth transition can take place to make way for a more representative govt. In Iraq ther single-biggest mistake made by the US-led coalition in 2003 was the abrupt dismantlement of the Iraqi Ba'ath Party. Had such a purge been undertaken more gradually over period of 10 years, matters would have been a lot different & there would have been far less bloodshed. Whenever there's a sudden purge of this type, those who lose power find it unbearable to lose their influence & privileges, while those coming to power after decades of deprivation are over-zealous to taste blood & seek revenge, instead of seeking reconciliation of the type witnessed in South Africa after the dismantlement of the Apartheid regime.



Jay Bhanushali said...

Prasun said

"The loose cannons can be down permanently in less than 48 hours, if reqd. One phone-call from Obama to NaMo will see to it that this is done. For if this is not done, the flow of 'Rokraa' into the country will stop. And every Gujarati understands what that would mean for India." In reply to this question,
"Lastly on domestic front how long will take MR. Modi to show his strength to shut the loose canons of BJP?"

Are you really so naive parsun? Do you really think the American President controls the Fortune 500 CEOs? Let me enlighten you a bit. Its actually the other way around. The 'SUPERPACKS' control the US President. Obama is just a puppet of the major corporations. He is unable to exercise his will on even his own countries policies.
His healthcare bill is still not implemented in 20 us states. He cries like a baby when Black Americans are shot by the police. He cries like a helpless baby coz he cant put restrictions on Sale of 'automatic weapons'
He has not been able to shut down 'Guantanamo bay' in spite of promising repeatedly because the military and CIA have veto over such decisions. Even
insiders in the administration admit that Obama always takes the path of least resistance. He is a hypocrite who talks about change and yet is the most status quoist President in Post cold war america. If Obama is so influential then why allow such idiotic comments in the first place?

The bottom line is that the US is run by a deep state which comprises big bankers,big oil,big pharma, and the military industrial complex,etc

None of them can thrive in today's gloomy global economy unless they invest in India. US needs India more than India needs USA.
We are a docile people used to being poor and backward and growing at 'Hindu rate of growth'
All Bengalis would know this.
Since Bengal replaced a 34 year old communist government with an even more leftist TMC. Lol

But the Americans are too greedy to loose a market comprising 1/6 th of humanity.
AMERICA IS CAPITALISM AND CAPITALISM IS AMERICA
When Demand is low,the party which has most consumers has the upper hand.
In a world economy with gross oversupply, the consuming Nations are king.
Obama can't even dream about daring to even mildly irritate Modi
The 'Rokraa' to Obama and his democrats will completely stop if he stops US business from sending its 'Rokraa to India to make more 'Rokraa' lol
Every Gujarati knows this and so does Modi.

If Modi was even 1/10 th as communal as he is made out to be, by now India would have started witnessing Government level discrimination at a scale not witnessed since the days of SLAVERY in USA.
Last i Checked,
Jan Dhan Yojna, Swatch Bharat , 500000 new toilets,Make in India, Skill India, Housing for All, Smart City, Pradhan Mantri Jeevan Beema Yojna, Pension for BPL, Accidental insurance for All, 24/7 ectricity for all by 2018, Pradhan mantri Gram Sadak yojna, employment at lower levels through e-admission without interviews, Railway modernisation, semi-High speed railways, Metro rail in several large cities,Sea Port modernisation, Highway modernisation, Increased share of Capital to state governments, e-bidding for coal block allocation and spectrum allocation, e- filing of Income tax, improving ease of doing business, improved investor confidence,improved consumer confidence, increasing Brand India at global stage, lowering inflation, OROP , and the list goes on and on and on and on....... DO NOT EXCLUDE or DISCRIMINATE AGAINST MUSLIMS.

soumyadip said...

hello sir,

I have'nt posted any comment for quite sometime now but can't help but ask you one thing,as matter of fact not only to you but everyone else visiting this thread. Its not related to defence but regarding a current issue or a non-issue depending on your interpritation.
Its about the percieved intolerance that many claims have increased in span of just one year of BJP rule......SO do you think BJP government now should grant permanent residance to Ms Taslima Nasreen or invite Mr. Salman Rushdi with open arms to show it is serious about freedom of speech and expression......

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JAY BHANUSHALI: No US President has ever controlled any Fortune 500 company. But at the same time this hasn't prevented him from wielding the stick & giving a few firm knocks on the knuckles of his foreign counterparts. Remember how immediately after one of Obama's speeches NaMo had to publicly give assurances with alacrity at a Church in Delhi? To outsiders it doesn't matter what Obama really is & how he is on his domestic front. What matters most is his administration's perception of where the world is headed for. And despite all the schemes that you've outlinjed above, NOT a single one of them has helped reduce unemployment levels or helped bring more Indian workers inside the tax-net. Brand India is not being globally popularised by NaMo; it is being done by India-based firms who have become or are becoming MNCs regardless of which govt is in power at the Centre. Yers, India does play host to 1/6th of humanity, but the US isn't investing in this humanity. Instead, it is investing in the stock markets through FIIs (thereby technically making it India's largest trading partner), & certainly not through large-scale FDI in the manufacturing or agriculture sectors.

But here's what will cheer you up: http://www.outlookindia.com/article/our-real-enemies-are-abroad/295698

And now come the depressing items:

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/nationalism-made-in-china/295605

&

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/indias-naked-truth-is-shrinking-jobs/295557

To SOUMYADIP: Of course no self-respecting govt should ever bow or succumb to any pressure of the type applied when it comes to welcoming Taslima Nasreen or Salman Rushdie to any corner of India. If the writ of the law were to be allowed to run unhindered throughout India, then no one in India will dare to even cast an evil eye on such personalities. But the sad fact of life is that since the 1960s itself successive Indian govts at both the state- and federal-levels have made compromises with the devil, which in turn have greatly diminished the effectiveness of the various law-enforcement agencies & forces. The end-result of all this is staring at our faces today. just look at the regularity with which Indian MPs resort to defying Section 144 in Delhi everytime they feel like mimmicking the marching hordes of Ahmed Shah Abdali & marching off to the Rashtrapati Bhavan! I guess MPs still long for those pre-independence days when civil disobedience & non-cooperation andolans were fashionable.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SOUMYADIP: Do read these:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/a-victim-of-divisive-politics/1/509747.html

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/the-overrated-metropolis/1/509741.html

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/parochial-trumps-plural/1/509745.html

All these will give you a good idea about what could have been the 'what if' outcome had the law-enforcement been empowered to perform their constitutionally-mandated taskings.It will also prove that communal tensions/violence are never caused by religious differences, but by parochial tendencies that are projected as deviant religiosity i8n order to manipulate the gullible masses.

bhoutik said...

curious about this coincidence of german state sponsored english media so interested in India's racism just about a week before the INDIA-AFRICA Summit.

link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrWNOfQGOo

rad said...

HI Prasun
There are reports that the barak -8 has has been fined tuned and the range has increased to 90 km. As it can be easily converted into a long range air to air missile,will it not be a game changer ?.The LCA can can do CAP at high altitude and pick of any ac in head on shots long before it even enters indian airspace .It can be easily integrated with long range aesa radar that is supposed to go on board the LCA it will be a nightmare for any pakistani ac or a Chinese ac.
The range will be double ie 200km easily. We could have a missile that would easily surpass the meteor missile . Thus the lca can suddenly become a giant killer not unlike the mig-21 upg where an aging ac which stood no chance against an f-16 now can easily give it a bloody nose in bvr ranges.
We can have an rafale performance in air to air mode at a third of the cost?

Jay Bhanushali said...

Interesting read,

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/robots-will-not-eliminate-work-2015-10

http://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/policy/opportunities-immense-for-both-consumers-and-providers-just-grab-them-raghuram-rajan/articleshow/49695075.cms

http://m.ibnlive.com/news/india/reforming-to-transform-is-a-marathon-not-a-sprint-prime-minister-narendra-modi-1161348.html

Jay Bhanushali said...

Fdi investment by us companies in 2015-16

http://m.timesofindia.com/Investment-intentions-of-US-companies-in-India/listshow/49008867.cms

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/11/15/u-s-leads-top-15-countries-investing-in-india/

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa,

Did you read this new piece on P 17A? IHS Jane says that there is a departure in construction methodology from previous ship projects

http://www.janes.com/article/55807/details-of-indian-p-17a-multimission-frigates-emerge

However, they do not say what are the specs and how the construction methodology is going to be different.

Was hoping you can educate us.

Thanks & Regards,

Vikram

PIYUSH DAS said...

Sir, against what type of targets will 'army version' brahmos be used in war scenario ?
How much damage is expected from 200kg warhead?

I was wondering if it can be effective against marching infantry or tanks?

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Thanks for your reply. But I strongly disagree with your opinion.

To me Syrian war is Global Project. US+WEST+KSA+Israel on one side Syria+iran+hessbollah+Russia on other side.

Iraq is caught in between. Now you see all the Sunni jihadist caught in Iraq between 2006 to 2009 are kept in camp bucca and made radicalized by US.
Later they were released. They become ISIL and Nursra front and other rebel groups. Truly speaking Assad is more moderate & democratic leader than other Sunni country leaders. This west know. But for survival of Israel and control the entire middle east this project is unleased.


Kurds is in Iraq, Syria, Iran & Turkey. This is their trump card. Kurds are Sunni but they belongs to different ethic groups which Arabs don't accept them.
So Greater Kurdistan is one of the West goal. This will destroy the turkey. Because 25% of turkey is Kurdish. Endogen want to be a global Muslim leader.
This west wont allow to happen.


Now Iran is given carrot. That is nuclear deal. Here US Role will be limited. UK, GERMANY & FRANCE will do more business with Iran. They will develop the oil & gas field. so that Oil price will be down. Iran will have more money& start buying Europe weapons. In this they can put Russia & KSA Down. Then they will start Shite Sunni war for future and goes on and on.
So this middle east war have no ends.

Please comment.

Thanks & Regards,
S. Kumar

PIYUSH DAS said...

Are there any plans for life extension of shishumar class submarines ?

PIYUSH DAS said...

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Germany-Aims-to-upgrade-submarines-used-by-Indian-Navy-440

AniluG said...

Dear Prasunda

The 4 billion question can be answered in another way. That as the force structure will remain lopsided the way it is. The job of Mig 27 and Mig 21 cane be done by h mrca or mmrca and with lfewer fighters. We can wait for the homegrown l mmrca till then.

Or we can convert the hawks till then.

Do you really think we need a one to one replacement. Adm Arun Prakash was Indicating thta India should study the airforce of France and UK as well. Whats your take on this
Regards

Sethz said...

@ RAD
"There are reports that the barak -8 has has been fined tuned and the range has increased to 90 km. As it can be easily converted into a long range air to air missile,will it not be a game changer?"

No you don't need Barak-8 for that. The Astra is the solution ...and it will be ready in th next 18-24 months. In the interim you'll have Derby as the BVR solution.

Arpit Kanodia said...

Sir,

I was thinking why not India providing HAL Rudra to Afghanistan whose OEM is based in India, the major job of these helis going to be firing gun and unguided rockets, which is already tested in HAL Rudra.

For MI-25 everytime India need permission from Russia, then why not giving helis of Indian origin?

I am asking this question because of this.
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/major-shift-in-policy-india-to-provide-lethal-weapons-to-afghanistan-1161752.html

""In a major shift in policy, India has decided to provide lethal weapons to Afghanistan. India has decided to provide 4 MI25 attack choppers to Afghanistan.

However, India is now waiting a nod from Russia which is the original supplier of the weapons.""

SUJOY MAJUMDAR said...

Prasun Da,

1. LCH has a service ceiling of 12,000ft. However as was evident during the Kargil conflict helos will have to operate at heights of 15,000 ft and above. So why did HAL design a helicopter knowing fully well that LCH won't be of much use in high altitudes?

2. Is the Apache being purchased as an insurance against a possible non performing LCH?

Thanks

bhoutik said...

http://www.orfonline.org/cms/sites/orfonline/modules/analysis/AnalysisDetail.html?cmaid=90347&mmacmaid=90348

the article above mentions comm systems/network India is reluctant to be part of. What are the reasons? If there are sensitivities with US equipment, could India not propose supplying/installing it's own on US ships for comms?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHOUTIK: There are a couple of flaws in that article: Firstly, this: "The lack of any foundational agreement between the US and India meant the aircraft were delivered after they were stripped of advanced navigation and communication equipment. The Indian Navy's P8Is cannot exchange and transmit any data securely with US ships and similar aircraft."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totally untrue. They were not stripped, but substituted by India-developed data-links (from BEL), data/voice secrecy encrypted systems (from ECIL) & IFF transponders from HAL.

Secondly, this: "Several agreements that would enable greater cooperation between the Indian and US Armed Forces have faced opposition in India. Some of these agreements, like the Logistics Support Agreement, would facilitate increased use of shared logistical services. Similarly, agreements like the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geospatial Cooperation would provide logistical support and enable exchanges of communication and related equipment; Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement would require the supply of equipment to India that is compatible with American systems. Signing these 'foundational agreements' is critical to enhancing the interoperability India seeks with partners in the Indian Ocean."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While India's signature on the LSA will definitely India's shipyards & enable them to undertake ship-repair contracts for US-origin warships plying within the IOR, the other agreements are reqd for India's signature so that real-time information-sharing & procurement of US-origin hardware can take place for the Indian component of the SOSUS network, without which the IN is unable to get early warning about PLAN SSNs entering the IOR.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: 1) Common-sense & logic dictates that the lighter the helicopter, the higher it flies. Consequently, if the intent is to shoot down MALE-UAVs cruising between 10,000 feet & 25,000 feet, then the logical shooter would have been a 3.1-tonne LOH armed with AAMs, & not the 5.8-tonne LCH. But in 2006, since the IAF was hell-bent on denying the IA's AAC the LAH version of the LCH, it insisted on acquiring the LCH as a UAV shooter--this canard being invented because the IAF was also then scouting for heavy attack helicopters. In other words, deny the AAC at all costs any kind of attack helicopter. The AAC consequently had no other option but to opt for a less optimal attack platform, i.e. the less manoeuvrable Rudra armed with ATGMs. Thus, inter-service politiking & turf wars have denied the AAC usage & ownership of the LCH.

2) The AH-64Es will be replacing the Mi-25s first, followed later by the Mi-35Ps.

To ARPIT KANODIA: The Rudra's 2.75-inch/70mm unguided rockets are puny compared to the 68mm, 80mm & 122mm rockets that the Mi-25 can fire & also carry more of them in four rocket-pods (2 on each stub-wing). Think of the Mi-25 therefore as an airborne MBRL. Clearly the Rudra cannot match this capability. Secondly, the Afghans want something they are familiar with & which can be maintained with ease. The Afghan Air Force in the 1980s used to operate such machines & 2 of them had even defected to Pakistan in that period & subsequently ended up at the USAF's Edwards AFB. Service-induction of the Rudra on the other hand would have meant a time-consuming & expensive conversion process & costly product-support for the first 3 years. The Afghans don't have this luxury of time. They want something urgently because even Russia is now busy with fulfilling export orders for 49 Mi-35Ms & Mi-28NEs for Iraq & Ka-52s for Egypt. Obtaining Russian approval for transferring the four Mi-25s to Afghanistan is a mere paperwork formality & is done in less than 24 hours.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANILUG: French & UK models don't apply to India, since the first 2 countries have NATO to fall back on. India doesn't. Speaking of numbers, it is not an issue of 1-for-1 replacement, but rather about having enough platforms to cater to the increasing operational reqmts. If India had the luxury of having an immediate neighbourhood that's similar to what exists within the EU, matters would then have been different.

To PIYUSH DAS: The first two Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs have already been upgraded & the remaining 2 are now being upgraded. Time has now come to start planning work on the life-extension refit to be conducted on the first two upgraded Class 209/Type 1500 SSK, similar to what will be done to INS Sindhu Kesari at Severodvinsk starting early next year.

To RAD: It's the Barak-2 LR-SAM whose range is now certified at 90km. But if you saw the full-scale mock-up of the Barak-2 at the IAI booth during the previous two Aero India expos, you wouldn't have proposed such a fitment for the Tejas.

To VIKRAM GUHA: LoLz! I guess news takes a rather long time to travel from Mumbai to California! And when it reaches its destination, the information is all skewed! It's all about modular shipbuilding at the upgraded facilities of MDL & no, this new arrangement is NOT starting with the P-17A FFGs, but was first initiated with the P-15B DDG construction programme.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Always trust Allah to deliver good news for India on Fridays. 2 days ago Pakistan for the very first time in its history failed to get elected to the UN's Geneva-based World Human Rights Council! So now, all earlier hopes of Islamabad about making a huge song-n-dance about Kashmir have been dashed & sent to the grave. And the grave's epitaph will record this event as: Pakistan, which expected 132 votes in its favour, managed to garner only 105 (thereby losing to the likes of Krygyzstan & Mongolia) because all the Scandinavian countries & GCC member-states either voted against Pakistan or abstained from voting in favour of Pakistan.

Allah o' Akbar!!!

Gopu said...

VMT

What exactly are the IAF's attack helo's used for? Are they just a duplication of the AAC's combat helicopters?

Why did the air force planners decide to fit the Tejas and Jaguar with EL/M-2052 AESA's when these aircraft clearly don't have the ability or the need to perform multi-role missions. They will perform CAS and will have escort MMRCA's like Mig-29 or Mirage-2000 (which could have actually used AESA radars). Plus, this means the already developed nose cone jigs for the Tejas has to be replaced within two years, along with bearing the additional cost of AESA's.

PIYUSH DAS said...

the latest version of patriot missile 'PAC3' has a Ka band seeker !

Why are they using ka band seeker when they already have iir seeker tech ?

Akash said...

Sir, Among the 196 Jaguars that were procured more than 23 have been lost to crashes and a good portion of the inventory have reached or will reach the end of their scheduled service life by 2020. Consequently I dont think more than 80-90 Jaguar IS/IM will remain in service over the next decade.

Two MiG-21 squadrons and a MiG-27M squadron will be phased out by the end of this year. What are these squadrons? Will they convert to some other types? These MiG 21 squadrons- are they flying M or bis or Bison? And arent Bisons supposed to fly till 2020?

DAC cleared the digitization of 18 Pechora firing units.Does the unit mean a squadron or a single battery? Under this digitization, will they receive solid state electronic components,digital exciter and receivers and programmable signal processors?Will the P-15 be upgraded to P-19 standards ?

MoD officials have revealed that a surprise package will be announced by Modi when he visits Russia. What does this surptise package consist of? And cant we lease the Irbis instead of the K-322 Kashalot. Kashalot is one old akula class.

Why doesnt Iaf specify light tactical agm and cruise missiles for integration with the Tejas? Like JSM from Konsberg which is also stealthy and the very new Russia X-59MK2 which is meant for internal carriage? These can transform Tejas into a potent strike platform.

RAT said...

@GOPU thanks for the info however the French will not develop any other Omni Role fighter as for the German the Eurofighter(140+) along with Tornado will be sufficient for the time being the French will definitely not want to spent developing any other fighter instead the money will be saved for Stealth fighter the Rafale will be further be developed in tranches will be good enough for the French air force 15+ production rate per year will be good for French, Egypt and Indian plus some other for coming 10 yrs the first stealth prototype will be out by some 2030 (i.e. if my calculations are correct) rest will be with India to join or wait and pay more later that's my observation. Rest is with Prasun to comment. Thanks

Gopu said...

Has the proposed ground-based SM-3 and SM-6 ("Aegis Ashore") been offered to India? The SM-3 is supposedly more sophisticated than the THAAD with mid-course interception and a generally stronger testing record. I would imagine that this system could degrade China's IRBM clout over India.

@RAT I generally agree. I should have clarified though that by omni-role I meant France would develop a 5.5 generation omni-role aircraft that has both ground and air capability (unlike F-22 and F-35) since the French Air Force really likes the omni-role concept. Variable-sweep wing aircraft like Tornado are difficult to maintain and will need to be withdrawn due to the complexity of maintaining such a system beyond its aircraft life. And like Prasun said earlier, European countries don't need to maintain large militaries, so there isn't the same level of urgency as in India.

Using historical precedent, I think Dassault will use export profits to fund the first rounds of R&D for the next generation plane, like it has done with the Mirage program. Rafales could be upgraded along the lines of the Silent Eagle or Advanced Super Hornet proposals although I think Dassault's upgrade road-map is much more modest.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Thanks for your support. Hope you will reply to my previous post regarding Syrian War & future Middle east war.

Now can you give me the status of Akash-2 Missile. After successful delivery of Akash -1 everyone is hoping for Akash-2. I am hearing this story since 2010. Whether it is best one or not we in India needs to develop everything in-House Completely.

Thanks & Regards,
S. Kumar

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa,

1. This is probably a good news. The Manufacturers of the AK 47 wants to set up shop in India & is looking for local partners

http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/national/ak-47-maker-in-talks-for-manufacturing-weapons-in-india/ar-CC5Scj?li=AAaeRVN&ocid=mailsignout

2. A group of Indians have sued the British Queen for not returning the Kohinoor. In reply their historian said:

Those involved in this ludicrous case should recognise that the British Crown Jewels is precisely the right place for the Koh-i-Noor diamond to reside, in grateful recognition for over three centuries of British involvement in India, which led to the modernisation, development, protection, agrarian advance, linguistic unification and ultimately the democratisation of the sub-continent

I found the emboldened part funny. Never knew they made such huge contribution to India. Last heard they were expelled by force from India.

Best Regards,
Vikram

Vikram Guha said...

Sorry, forgot to post the link

http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/india-sues-the-queen-for-return-of-stolen-%C2%A3100m-koh-i-noor-diamond/ar-CC6Dc2?li=AAaeRVN&ocid=mailsignout

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GOPU: The Mi-25s & Mi-35Ps are used primarily as airborne MBRLs in support of the IA’s three existing Strike Corps formations. AAC doesn’t have any attack helicopters yet. Arun Singh as Minister of State for Defence had given in writing in 1986 that the AAC would eventually get its own integral attack helicopters, but subsequent RMs ion the MoD never followed this up & the case remains in limbo till this day.

As for EL/M-2052 AESA-MMR, the Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 platforms require it (as I had explained in the previous thread) for performing interleaved operations (weather-monitoring, ground mapping & terrain avoidance), which is not possible with mechanically scanning MMRs that have to undertake such operations sequentially. This not only increases the pilot’s workload, but also prevents the pilot from gaining superior situational awareness. With AESA-MMRs, however, the pilot just has to select the interleaved operating mode & that’s that. Everything else is automated & the pilot can therefore focus more on flying, navigation & target acquisition/engagement. The IAF’s Tejas Mk1 (i.e. the version derived from the IN’s LCA (Navy) Mk1) will indeed be a multi-role platform.

The SM-3/6 is not on offer to India as of now.

To PIYUSH DAS: That’s because TMD is a layered, hierarchical network that requires both THAAD & Patriot PAC-3. Imagine an IRBM or TBM breaking up into two sections after being intercepted by THAAD & hurtling down over a populated area. This is when the PAC-3 is used to break up each of the two sections into far smaller bits & pieces. That’s why those countries who already have PAC-3s to counter IRBMs (like the UAE, KSA, ROK & Japan) are also seeking THAAD or Arrow-2. If the threat is only coming from smaller SRBMs, then PAC-3 is good enough.

In case you want to know what exactly happens when a IRBM-type missile or a bigger rocket breaks up, then do see this:

http://gizmodo.com/part-of-a-rocket-engine-landed-in-this-guys-living-room-1727544878

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To AKASH: At least 130 Jaguars will remain till 2040 & all that’s reqd now are new-generation Honeywell F125 turbofans. Squadron lists were provided in detail in a separate thread sometime last year, if I’m not mistaken. The surprise package could well be the leasing of a second SSGN—this being part of the Kudankulam PWRs 3 & 4 deal. Standoff long-range PGMs won’t make sense for any light-MRCA. They are more suited for M-MRCAs & H-MRCAs. L-MRCAs require only small-diameter, lightweight PGMs for attacking mobile armoued ground targets. Firing Unit is the equivalent of a Battery. As for SAM upgrades, here are the companies selected for various upgrade packages:

S-125 Pechora MR-SAM Upgrade:

http://amertec-sys.com/PS%20MS%20%2001%20Command%20and%20control%20systems.asp

http://amertec-sys.com/PS%20MS%20%2002%20Radar%20EW%20and%20Communication%20systems.asp

http://amertec-sys.com/PS%20MS%20%2003%20Data%20Acquisition%20and%20Tracking%20systems.asp

http://amertec-sys.com/PS%20MS%20%2005%20Power%20Distribution%20Systems.asp

http://amertec-sys.com/PS%20MS%20Simulator%20&%20Test%20Systems%2001%20O-Level%20Test%20Systems.asp

KVADRAT/KUB MR-SAM Upgrade: http://www.military-retia.eu/en/modernization-2k12-kub

OSA-AKM SHORADS Upgrade: http://www.wzu.pl/en/showcase-tags/modernization?page=1

Strela-10MN SHORADS Upgrade by Nudelman Precision Engineering Design Bureau:

http://kbtochmash.com/defence-products/products-en/products-en_7.html

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To RAT & GOPU: The Rafale enjoys considerable potential for future upgrades (to the airframe, engine & mission avionics) & a pre-planned product improvement schedule has already been worked out by the French. THALES, just like the Russians, is focussing on active cancellation techniques for low-observability, & development of multi-role IRSTs that can function as both an early warner of hostile targets, as well as situational awareness enhancer by operating in a passive terrain avoidance mode when interfaced with the on-board RLG-INS. In Europe, the jury is still out on whether or not manned 6th generation MRCAs are reqd. But in the US, OEMs like Boeing & Lockheed Martin are already doing serious R & D on such platforms.

To S KUMAR: Will revert back on the Syria issue a little later. As for Akash-2, there’s still time available for product development to be completed, since it will take at least another 5 years to fulfil existing orders for Akash-1. But the question that needs answering is this: what is it that the 25km-range Akash-1/40km-range Akash-2 can do which the 90km-range Barak-2 LR-SAM can’t?

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) LoLz! That OEM will set up shop in India ONLY IF India discards the OFB’s offerings & opts for imported solutions, which to me is highly unlikely. 2) As for the Kohinoor’s return & statements like “….for over three centuries of British involvement in India, which led to the modernisation, development, protection, agrarian advance, linguistic unification and ultimately the democratisation of the sub-continent.”…..he forgets to mention that the overwhelming majority of global GDP WRT manufacturing sector was accounted for by India & China prior to colonisation by the Europeans. Democratisation was prevalent even in the B.C. era in Kalinga. Historically recorded civilisational advances in all spheres if life—even starting with the period of Asoka The Great for the sake of argument—took place in both India & Mesopotamia when the Europeans & Nordics were still cave-dwellers. The world’s first superhighway was the Grand Trunk Road, but perhaps similar highways existed even during the reign of Asoka. And despite linguistic differences, it was cultural cohesion & unification—forged over the past thousands of years—that produced the 1946 mutinies among the Raj’s men in olive green, blue & white, which proved to be the straw that broke the camel’s back, resulting in the 800,000 Brits ceasing all efforts to exercise control over 28 crore Indians by 1947.

Now, if a case of this nature can be filed at the ICJ in The Hague, then a similar case can also be filed for recovery of the Peacock Throne from Iran.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Meet a 21st century practitioner of Sanatana Dharma:

http://www.businessinsider.in/Meet-the-man-a-fraudster-who-owns-150-cars-3078-bank-accounts-700-acres-land-and-much-more/articleshow/48085096.cms?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=businessinsider_traffic

PIYUSH DAS said...

Thank you for the answers.....

I hope india also opts for layered missile defence, 'but with indigenous systems.'

Kunal Jadhav said...

Sir,
Please can you elaborate the facts that led to BJP defeat in Bihar assembly poles.
Also what corrective messures BJP must take to win upcoming assembly poles.

PIYUSH DAS said...

Sir, can you plz clarify some facts stated in previous article !

1) you said new interceptor missiles provided by Russia will have speed of 7km/s.
7km/s = 14mach
Does it mean that new missiles will have speed greater than that of both arrow & thaad missiles?

2) also you said that an s400 tel will have 4 Lrsam . Will all the missiles be LRSAM ?

Arpit Kanodia said...

Sir,
http://forceindia.net/ShockoftheClones.aspx
I read this article of yours. This is very well written.

But then why Russia still supplying various components for military R&D? Like supplying AL-31FN for J-10, Klimov RD-83 for FC-1/JF-17, D30KP-2 for H-6K bombers & Y-20 strategic airlifter.

Including helping in ZW-10, also in designing Advanced Heavy Lift(AHL).

Sir, if Russia is so much pissed off with continues violation of IPRs, then why still they are involved in supplying military components, including in R&D?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KUNAL JADHAV: http://indianexpress.com/article/explained/bihar-rejected-modi-shahs-idea-of-bihar/

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PIYUSH DAS: That's what Russia is claiming. But such claims have not yet been proven by actual test-firings. Let it be proven that Russia is capable of producing such a feat. That's why I had earlier referred to the S-400 offer as a 'lollypop'.

To ARPIT KANODIA: VMT. The more the Ruskies offer off-the-shelf products, the greater China's dependency on Russian OEMs & this in turn increases Russia's leverage & bargaining power. It is not of much help to China if Russia only helps in the design of an airframe, but ensures that what goes inside the airframe--like engines--remains of imported origin. China has already made some advances in R & D on engines & glass cockpit avionics for helicopters & turboprops, but in the arena of high-thrust turbofans, China remains woefully behind the West & Russia.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://warisboring.com/articles/f-16s-could-fly-for-92-years/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/09/us-dubai-airshow-boeing-tata-idUSKCN0SY0CV20151109

http://defense-update.com/20151108_terra.html#.VkCOYdIrKM8

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-new-taliban-breakaway-group-claims-support-for-peace-and-womens-rights/2015/11/08/846cdc79-6e07-4c44-9256-b2ba105eb945_story.html

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Wish you a "Happy Deepavali".

Thanks & Regards
S. Kumar

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