Elephant Walks in South
Korea During
EX Beverly Herd 16-01
Now, what follows below is what one does not get to see, since they are all the end-products of
BLACK PROJECTS.
In the late 1970s, the USAF initiated
the Compass
Cope R & D project to develop a tactical, survivable reconnaissance
UAV. The mission envisioned for the aircraft would seem familiar today, for are
nearly identical to that of the Northrop Grumman-developed Global Hawk UAV, and
in many ways the two aircraft are similar. Boeing beat out Teledyne Ryan for
the Compass Cope contract, only to have the project terminated soon after the
competition ended in 1979. Around the time that Compass Cope was cancelled, the
USAF had several aerospace companies study an Advanced Remotely Piloted Vehicle
(ARPV). This would a mid-sized RPV with limited stealthy features and missions,
including reconnaissance, EW, and precision-strike. Soon after the contractor
studies were complete, the USAF ended the project. Beginning in 1978, Northrop Grumman
began to study how to apply low observables experience gained from the Have
Blue (and later Tacit Blue) projects to a number of
roles, ranging from cruise missile carriers to loitering reconnaissance
platforms. A number of older studies of flying-wing and span-loader aircraft
were dusted off and scale-models were tested on indoor ranges to determine if
any aircraft configurations had any ‘natural’ stealth qualities.
The Have Blue project had left a very
bad taste in Northrop Grumman’s mouth and it had nothing new lined up to keep
money coming in, and Lockheed Martin’s XST had beaten its design by a considerable
margin—largely due to Lockheed Martin’s experience with materials from the Oxcart
project and the ECHO 1.0 software package. Northrop Grumman had little
experience with the kind of computing required to predict RCS (ironically,
Northrop Grumman’s employees started most of the world’s major computer and
semiconductor companies, such as IBM) so they had to make do with
trial-and-error and commercial radar absorbent materials. At DARPA’s request,
Northrop Grumman in 1978 began studying a stealthy radar-carrying platform
under the Battlefield Surveillance Aircraft Experimental (BSAX) project. At the
same time, Northrop Grumman was working on its own to develop new projects that
would be of interest to the US Dept of Defense. One of these was Tacit
Rainbow--a loitering anti-radiation missile. Another concept was the
Tactical High Altitude Penetrator, or THAP. Northrop Grumman had been looking
at flying-wing span-loader aircraft for military use with great interest in the
late 1970s. Recent advances in materials and flight-control technology made an
advanced span-loader more possible than ever. Missions ranging from super heavylift
transports and aerial refuelling tankers to intercontinental bombers were
studied. A separate group at Palos Verdes investigated the span-loader as a
stealthy platform. A great deal of indoor RCS work was done on span-loader scale-models
in the late 1970s. In June 1991, AW &
ST reported that this was the TR-3A Black Manta—a classified tactical reconnasissance
aircraft supporting the F-117A force with laser target designation and bomb
damage assessment. The article also identified the TR-3A as an outgrowth of the
THAP concept, but it carried not a bay full of reconnaissance gear, but rather
an internal weapons bay holding a Paveway-2 laser guided bomb, which in essence
made it a manned Covert Survivable In-weather Recon/Strike (CSIRS) platform.
The TR-3A is obviously optimized for high-altitude (50,000 feet and above) loitering over denied areas--like hanging out over a ‘SAM City’. This would suggest a reconnaissance role. Precision-strike aircraft are designed to get in and out fast to minimize exposure to enemy air-defences. Reconnaissance aircraft typically go one of two ways: fast in and out, like the SR-71; or long time over target to keep an eye on movements of the target and collect more targetting data. Anything that has to hang inside hostile airspace will be designed with stealth in mind. The TR-3A was thus optimized for low-observables (using off-the-shelf technology, no less) and it cruised at the uppermost reaches of the threat envelopes of SAMs. Only a few SAM systems can reliably hit something above 50,000 feet. But even those systems are only marginally effective at that altitude. And the small amount of radar energy reaching up there does not exactly help the SAM hit its target. So the chances of bringing down a TR-3A at mission altitude are pretty slim. Reportedly in 1983, an industrial consortium of General Dynamics and McDonnell Douglas received a contract from the USAF to produce 30 airframes under the name ‘Tactical Survivable Aircraft’. There are a number of missions that can be assigned to the TR-3A in wartime. For one, it could simply be a system for attacking the same targets as an F-117A, though from high altitudes. This would be similar to a tactical version of the B-2B attacking SAM sites as they turn on, or casing down mobile targets like C4I faculties and land-mobile tactical ballistic missile/cruise missile launchers.
By the late 1980s, the
Pentagon had identified the need for a stealthy multi-role combat aircraft
(MRCA) that can remain aloft for long periods and loiter close to enemy
territory, and then switch to a high-speed mode to rush in and deliver a
surgical blow before rushing back out at supersonic speeds. These two modes of
flight require drastically different wing profiles for maximum efficiency. In
the mid-1990s reports began to surface concerning a new swing-wing aircraft
sighted near Cannon AFB, New Mexico and at Langley AFB in Virginia. In
September 1994, that aircraft—developed by Northrop Grumman and known as the
Switchblade (its utility patent was filed in November 1999)—was observed
circling high over Amarillo, Texas, for several minutes at midday. The aircraft
was not a standard variable swing-wing aircraft, rather it was employing a
unique forward sweeping-wing mechanism that enables the aircraft to become an
attack aircraft capable of delivering precision-guided munitions (PGM),
super-manoeuvrability (for air combat) and Mach 3 ‘dash’ capability.
It is thus
a bomber, interceptor and high-speed aircraft all-in-one. The wings are attached to the fuselage
at a pivot point toward the rear of the aircraft. With its wings fully swept
aft the aircraft can slow to drop PGMs or land on short runways. When the wings
are swept forward 20 degrees the aircraft takes advantage of the
manoeuvrability that forward-swept wings offer, thereby becoming a highly agile
air combat platform. Sweep the wings fully forward and they become flush, with
the aircraft with the trailing edge becoming the leading edge, forming a highly
swept 75-degree stealthy delta ideal for high-speed Mach 3 exits.
Shape-shifting MRCAs that can alter their wing configurations in mid-flight (i.e. variable-wing
geometry, or swing-wing) can generate greater efficiency and performance in
various flight modes. With
its wings swept perpendicular to its body, the Switchblade can fly at lower
speeds to drop PGMs precisely on their targets. With its wings swept farther
forward, the aircraft becomes extremely manoeuvrable for aerial combat. When
the wings are swept fully forward, the trailing edge of the wing becomes the
leading edge, and the Switchblade can dash away at speeds up to Mach 3.
Back in 1986, there was speculation
among US military pilots and industry insiders that a new secret aircraft was
being developed having the mysterious designation F-19. The rumours were
partially substantiated by leaks within the aerospace industry, and a US$9.95 scale-model
was produced by Testors Model Corp, which incidentally became the biggest
selling plastic model kit of all time. At the very least, the USAF added to the
confusion by skipping a designation between the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18
Hornet, and the Northrop F-20 Tigershark. This left a gap for an aircraft that
may have held the designation F-19. It was said that the F-19 was a low-observable
stealth aircraft that was being developed by Lockheed Skunk Works. However,
when the F-117 Nighthawk was finally revealed to the public on November 10,
1988 rumoirs of the mysterious F-19 disappeared. It was assumed that the F-19
was in fact the F-117. Subsequent research indicated that this assumption was
fundamentally incorrect, and that there really was an F-19. In 1979, a retired
SR-71 pilot was flying a Learjet north of what is commonly referred to as Area
51. After breaking through a group of clouds, the pilot noticed a very strange-looking
aircraft just ahead and to his lower left position (he had been shadowing the
craft for approximately 10 minutes). The aircraft measured approximately 65
feet in length. It was completely black in colour, and had a flattened football
or rounded-diamond shape, and appeared slightly more elongated in the front
half. The X-15-like cockpit was a fully enclosed blister that tapered back
towards the aft end of the craft. There were two forward-facing triangular
windows on either side of a wedge shaped splitter pillar.
The internally-mounted engines were fed by two NACA air-intake ducts slightly aft and to either side of the cockpit. There were also two additional air-intakes on the lower surface of the aircraft. The craft featured what looked like trapezoidal shaped or trap-door exhaust ports near the aft end. There were control surfaces on the leading and trailing edges. The most unique feature however, was a very unusual dorsal and ventral tail arrangement. The vertical stabiliser looked very similar in appearance to that of the old B-17 Flying Fortress, but with an identical stabiliser on the bottom. The lower ventral fin retracted sideways and up, to allow clearance for landing. This particular craft had afterburner capability.
All of the evidence indicates that this
was a twin-engined hybrid propulsion design aircraft. It would appear that this
particular aircraft, built in 1976, was a proof-of-concept (first generation)
design for what was to be commonly referred to as the Aurora. The pilot was
quite startled after seeing this aircraft, and contacted air traffic control
(ATC) at Nellis AFB to ask: “why did you not advise me of the other traffic in
my vicinity?” At this point, there was a short pause, and then ATC responded by
saying: “because there is no traffic in your vicinity, Sir.” Next, the Learjet
pilot responded by saying: “the hell there isn't! I’ve got an all-black,
diamond-shaped, no wings, single-seat, twin-engined aircraft with ventral and
dorsal vertical stabilisers, flying 100 feet out in my 11 o’clock position
right now! I’m looking out my windscreen at it as we speak.” After a pause of
10 seconds or so, the Learjet pilot saw the pilot of this other aircraft look
out of his right windscreen, register an expression of extreme surprise, then
abruptly bank away while simultaneously lighting up the afterburners, and
disappearing into a cloud bank. After a pause of 20 seconds or so, a different
voice came over the radio, (a much harsher sounding voice) which directed the
Learjet pilot to vector south where he would be landing at Nellis AFB. The
pilot complied, and was told to taxi to the end of the runway, shut down his
engines, and to not depart his aircraft. At this point, the pilot was met by
USAF security personnel, and was interrogated for the next 18 hours about his
encounter with the mysterious ‘black jet’.
In 1974, the US Defense Advanced
Research Projects Agency (DARPA) initiated a programme known as Project
Harvey (named after the 6 feet 3 1/2 inches tall invisible white rabbit
from the play of the same name). The ultimate goal was to develop a combat
aircraft with as low a RCS as possible. Five aerospace OEMs were contracted
US$1 million each to give it their best shot. Surprisingly, Lockheed Martin
wasn’t among them. It was only an accidental tip-off that allowed Lockheed
Martin’s Ben Rich to lobby for inclusion. Rich had been an engineer on the
secret U-2 and SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft R & D projects and had by then
advanced to become Lockheed Martin’s successor to the famous Lawrence Kelly Johnson
as Director of the Skunk Works. The ‘Skunk Works’ is the official alias for the Advanced
Developmental Projects Division that is responsible for all of Lockheed Martin’s highly secret advanced
development projects. It was formed in 1943 to build the US’ first
turbojet-powered combat aircraft, the P-80, and numerous other projects that
belong to the shadowy world of military operations.
By the time Rich had gotten wind of Project
Harvey, there was no money left for another developmental contract. So
Lockheed Martin was offered a shot-for-a-dollar. But Rich wanted in and wisely
turned down the token dollar. He knew that any new technologies developed with
company funds would then be proprietary. Lockheed Martin was famous for
building small fleets of extremely advanced aircraft-often used for highly
secretive missions. During World War-2, it had built the P-80. Subsequently,
Lockheed Martin skipped the Mach-1 era altogether and jumped right to fielding
the first US-origin combat aircraft capable of speeds in excess of Mach 2, the
F-104 Star Fighter. Along the way came the high-flying U-2, the higher-flying
SR-71, the hypersonic D-21 drone (which would ride piggyback on an SR-71 until
released), and other things not yet named. In Rich’s own words, the unsung hero
of Lockheed Martin’s effort was an anonymous staff mathematician and electrical
engineer named Denys Overholser. Overholser and his mentor, another
mathematician named Bill Schroeder, had discussed the possibilities of
utilising some of the equations associated with optical scattering (how electromagnetic
waves bounce off variously shaped objects) on this project. Both had the rather
odd hobby of reading obscure USSR-origin mathematics papers and had made the
ultimate ‘nerd's nerd’ discovery. They had stumbled across a paper published in
Moscow a decade earlier titled ‘Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of
Diffraction’. It had been written by Pyotr Ufimtsev, the Soviet Union’s chief
scientist at the Moscow Institute of Radio Engineering and the last in a long
line of scientists developing a long series of wave-equations originally
derived centuries ago by the Scottish physicist James Clerk Maxwell.
The US intelligence community had helped
translate this research paper and brought it to the West. The paper was in no
way classified or related to weapons development at all. It was purely
theoretical math. Years later, Ufimtsev immigrated to the US to teach at the
University of California, Los Angeles, and only then discovered his inadvertent
contribution to the development of stealthy aircraft. The equations that
Ufimtsev had developed made the reflections of radio waves off hard surfaces
predictable. Not invisible, transparent, or tactical in any way-just
predictable. The problem for Lockheed Martin was that the calculations were so
ferociously difficult that the most advanced supercomputers in the world at
that time could only compute results for flat surfaces. Any attempt to perform
the calculations for the curved surfaces you would find on a conventional
aircraft--well, those machines would still be grinding away toward a solution
today. Schroeder recognised how these equations could be applied to Lockheed
Martin’s current project. The solution was not even to attempt to design an
aircraft with any curved surfaces, but to build one with dozens, or perhaps
hundreds, of individual flat triangular and rectangular plates. Then the
challenge was to compute the reflection from each and every flat surface before
adding them all together to build a picture of the aircraft’s total radar
signature. Once you knew where every bit of radar reflection was coming from,
you could then reorient those individual plates so that the reflection would go
off in a direction away from the radar looking at it. This process became known
as ‘faceting’. And that became the real secret--not to absorb all the RF
emissions or make the aircraft somehow transparent, but to make the aircraft’s
signature predictable. That predictability could then be used to shape a tactically
useful aircraft. The aircraft would also be covered in thin sheets of radar-absorbing
materials (RAM), but the bulk of the stealth effect was achieved by its shape.
Traditionally, a single engineering
specialty will take the lead during the design of a new aircraft. An
aerodynamicist may be in charge of pushing through a new wing or fuselage
shape, as happened with the early delta wings and area-ruled fuselages of the ‘Century
Series’ of interceptors. Sometimes it may be the powerplant guy: “Here’s the
engine we’re going to use, build us an aircraft for it.” This is how the P-80
came about. Occasionally it may be the armaments people-- the A-10 Warthog is
fundamentally a massive 30mm Gatling cannon with an aircraft built around it. In this particular case, this
was the first time the lead was owned by an electrical engineer. The computing
programme designed by Overholser’s team to make these calculations was called
Echo- 1. Armed with that tool, the first test subject, the Hopeless Diamond,
was built. It was described as a diamond for obvious reasons and ‘hopeless’ for
its aerodynamic qualities (or rather, its complete lack thereof). Early radar
testing of the Hopeless Diamond turned out to be staggeringly successful. The
White Sands experimental radar range near Holloman AFB was used.
When the radar
was fired-up for the initial testing, the only thing that showed up was the
reflection of the pole on which the full-scale test-model was supposed to be
mounted. Assuming that the model had fallen off the pole, the radar operators
sent technicians downrange to fix the problem. To their surprise, the ten-foot
model was still in place. To test the model at all, Lockheed Martin then had to
design an invisible ‘stealthy pole’ to mount the model utilising the same technology
as the proposed combat aircraft. The results were once again astounding, and
incredulous USAF officials were called in to witness and verify the data. The
first opportunity to impress these officials almost resulted in embarrassment.
When the radars were turned on, the reflections, while still very small by
aircraft standards, were orders of magnitude larger than what the USAF
officials had been led to expect. They could still clearly see a small radar
return from where the model was mounted.
While the Lockheed Martin engineers
were trying to explain this discrepancy, a radio call came in from a technician
downrange. He reported that a bird was perched on the ten-foot model. The quick
reply was an order to blow the horn of the pickup truck the guy was sitting in.
As the startled bird flew away, the radar reflection on the test scope
disappeared. The very idea that a combat aircraft could be made so invisible as
to hide behind a bird was an opportunity that couldn’t be passed up. Everything
associated with the programme became classified at the highest levels. The
programme was consequently transferred from DARPA to the USAF’s Special
Projects Office. The word ‘stealth’ was forbidden to be mentioned in any
unclassified document. And in April 1976, the Ford Administration gave Lockheed
Martin the go-ahead for a full-scale aircraft. The Skunk Works was officially in
the stealthly, low-observable flying platform business.
In 1974, when DARPA was becoming more
and more interested in the idea that an aircraft, or a remotely-piloted
vehicle, could be almost totally invisible to hostile RF-based sensors, the
consequent competition led to the emergence of the Lockheed Martin-developed F-117 Nighthawk. But this is the story about the loser. After fielding some
secondary studies regarding the possibility of a combat aircraft that could
pass completely unseen by enemy radars, the XST (eXperimental Survivable
Tactical) project was formally launched and DARPA went searching for OEMs to
pursue the project’s goals. What DARPA was looking for in particular from the
initial phase of the project was to answer two primary questions: 1) What were
the signature limits that an aircraft would have to meet to be undetectable at
an operational range from enemy sensors? 2) What could each aerospace OEM bring
to the table when it came to designing and building an aircraft with the
signature-levels established in question one?
Five major aerospace OEMs were
approached to take part in the competition to build a scale-model concept that
would demonstrate a substantial reduction in radar cross-section for a manned tactical
air vehicle. Originally, Lockheed Martin was not even one of these companies.
Word got around that the shadowy project was in the launch phase, and legendary
Lockheed Skunk Works engineer Ben Rich went and persuaded the powers-that-be at
the Pentagon to give him and his Skunk Works team a shot. He wanted in so badly
that and he proposed competing for free, while all the other competitors would
receive a paying contract for their R & D work. Nowadays, it is almost
unbelievable to think that Lockheed Martin was not even on the US Department
of Defense’s (DoD) list for the XST competition, but then again, the mid-1970s
were a low time for Lockheed Martin. Having not produced a combat aircraft for
more than a decade, their commercial aircraft division was also in deep public
turmoil. The company was facing a possible fire-sale, after which its bones
would be picked apart piece by piece. Still, what many in the DoD did not know
was that the Skunk Works built the first stealthy aircraft, the A-12 Oxcart and SR-71 Blackbirds,
although its low-observable features were still highly classified at that time.
After starting with a half dozen competitors, the XST competition was narrowed
down to consist of the aforementioned Lockheed Martin Skunk Works team, a
Northrop Grumman team and a McDonnell Douglas team that would later also drop
out of the competition. Skunk Works, being accustomed to working on highly
classified projects, had every element of the XST team working together openly.
Powerplant, flight controls, low-observables, aerodynamics and so on, were all
at the same collaborative design table. Northrop Grumman , on the other hand,
had built an almost firewall-like divide between the highly classified low-observable
folks and the less sensitive aircraft systems and design folks. This mistake
would result in a very inefficient design process that would cost them later on
in the competition, and would once again uphold the management structure of Kelly Johnson as
superior to all others in the classified aircraft development business.
As noted above, Team Skunk Works used a
fairly obscure research paper from a Soviet scientist named Pyotr Ufimtsev to build a then cutting-edge computer
programme called ‘ECHO-1’ that could predict effects of radar waves on an object.
This resulted in the famed ‘Hopeless Diamond’ design, which was shaped like a
rough-cut gem, and was fully faceted to reflect radar waves away from the
transmitter/receiver from almost every direction with great efficiency. When it
came to its radar signature, the ephemeral ‘Hopeless Diamond’ was downright
exciting. But when it came to its aerodynamics, it was a messy conundrum to say
the least. Which was something that Kelly Johnson, Ben Rich’s boss, was not too
excited about. Meanwhile, the Northrop Grumman team had been working closely
with Hughes Radar Systems Group since early on for its XST contender. Hughes,
the gold standard purveyor of US-origin military sensors at the time, gave
Northrop Grumman a deep theoretical understanding of how radars and infra-red
sensors detect targets, and what shapes were hard to detect under various
conditions. With this in mind, and without Lockheed’s novel ECHO-1
computer-based radar cross-section modelling programme, Northrop Grumman’s
design moved forward, albeit clumsily. The aforementioned intense
compartmentalization at Northrop Grumman, between the highly classified low-observables
team, the aircraft systems team, and the airframe design team, was proving to
be almost impossible to work through. Some individuals who were active in
Northrop Grumman’s XST R & D effort at the time have since described this
unsatisfactory arrangement as like trying to build the most advanced aircraft
design in the world via playing a game of telephone. Nonetheless, leveraging
their work with Hughes, the team began experimenting with different shapes and
configurations, and in a learn-as-you-go creative process, a design began to materialise.
DARPA, by this time having realised the promise of low-observables technology,
had upgraded the project from a theoretical design study to one that would
provide a flyable prototype. With this in mind, the name of the project changed
to eXperimental Survivable Testbed. A winner-take-all “pole off” showdown, in
which scale-models of both manufacturers unique designs would be evaluated
mounted on a pole at a radar cross-section measurement range, was set for the
summer of 1975. Only the winner would get the chance to see their exotic design
take flight as a real-life technology demonstrator. Lockheed Martin’s ‘Hopeless
Diamond’ was tweaked a bit to better resemble a plausible aircraft. The whole
design was still made up of a series of flat panels, or diamond-like facets,
but its rear trailing edge would be notched in instead of shaped like one-half
of a diamond. It would also feature more highly swept wings, its inlets would
be mounted behind both sides of the cockpit and the aircraft’s exhaust would
exit through slits in the upper rear trailing edge of the fuselage to mask its
infra-red signature. Northrop Grumman’s design looked more like a plausible
flying machine, with the cockpit set far forward and a large air inlet, covered
by a fine mesh grill, was set high atop the fuselage. It did not feature a
complex array of facets like Lockheed Martin’s entry, rather it used smooth,
broad surfaces and finely rounded edges to reflect radar energy, as well as a
diamond-delta like wing platform. The aircraft’s exhausts were mounted deeply
inward of the trailing edge, shrouded between the inward canted vertical tails.
Both designs were very impressive, to say the least, having achieved massive
reductions in overall RCS returns as well as dampening their theoretical infra-red
signature to a large degree. Northrop Grumman, not having the luxury of
Lockheed Martin’s ECHO-1 programme, and being handicapped by a fragmented
design team, concentrated on making the aircraft as invisible as possible from
its front and rear quadrants. Their thinking was that the most risk for a
penetrating attack aircraft is posed when it is approaching and leaving the
target area, so this is where their signature reduction goals were focussed.
The Northrop Grumman team accomplished this goal very well, but when the
aircraft design was viewed by radar from the side hemisphere, the aircraft’s RCS
return spiked higher than Skunk Works’ Hopeless Diamond-based competitor. The
Northrop Grumman XST’s less competitive side-on radar signature seemed to be
more of a result of the stiff compartmentalisation within the Northrop Grumman
design team than just the design philosophy alone, and it is possible that with
some tweaks the Northrop Grumman XST offer would have featured a lower overall
RCS than the Lockheed Martin contender. Northrop Grumman’s XST design was also
already optimised to have a lower RCS over a broader range of radar
frequencies. Additionally, the argument was made that Northrop Grumman’s design
would have provided better aerodynamic performance and airframe adaptability,
as well as lower overall production risk than Lockheed Martin’s wildly faceted
design. In other words, there have been multiple voices, not just from within
the Northrop Grumman camp, that think that the Northrop Grumman XST would have
been a better choice than Lockheed Martin’s design, especially considering how
immature the designs, and their team’s accompanying low-observable knowledge
bases really were at the time. Still, regardless of these opinions, Lockheed
Martin’s design best met the particular design goals laid out by the Pentagon,
as such, there was no denying Lockheed Martin won the pole off. Interestingly,
years after the XST competition concluded, Northrop Grumman’s non-faceted
design philosophy seems much more ahead of its time than Lockheed Martin’s
faceted approach, especially when you consider that second- and third-generation
stealthy aircraft and unmanned systems have much more in common with Northrop
Grumman’s XST design than Lockheed Martin’s XST design.
Still, both teams had solid
manufacturing capabilities, competitive cost estimates, and aggressive
timelines, so all things being fairly equal, Northrop Grumman’s slightly less
stealthy pole model gave DARPA something to hang their final decision on, and
the Skunk Works design was chosen for flight testing. This action would result
in the ‘Have Blue’ technology demonstrators, then the ‘Senior Trend’ project,
which resulted in the YF-117 and eventually the famous F-117 Nighthawk as we
know it today. The loss from the XST competition did not mean the end for
Northrop Grumman when it comes to low-observable aircraft. Quite the contrary,
in fact. The team regrouped and learned from its mistakes over the next few
years, and eventually fielded the absolutely game-changing platform known as
the Battlefield Surveillance Aircraft Experimental, otherwise known as the ‘Tacit
Blue’ technology demonstrator. This aircraft, aptly nicknamed ‘The Whale’,
paved the way for Northrop Grumman to win the contract for developing the B-2 Spirit bomber, build the YF-23 Advanced Tactical
Fighter contender, and even the Global Hawk and X-47B unmanned aircraft
testbeds as we know them today. Strangely, the Tacit Blue concept would
also indirectly lead to the Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel, and the General Atomics Avenger UAV. In fact, the rumoured Northrop Grumman RQ-180 is supposedly the final implementation of the concept that ‘Tacit Blue’ proved more
than 30 years ago. Seeing how close the XST decision was, and taking into
account just how handicapped Northrop Grumman was by having two compartmentalised
teams working on one integrated aircraft, as well as not having the help of the
groundbreaking ECHO-1 computer modelling programme, one has to wonder just how
successful its stealthy aircraft could have been with more time to mature.
In November 2013, Lockheed Martin
announced that it, along with Aerojet Rocketdyne, was developing the
SR-72 reconnaissance aircraft that will be able to accelerate up to Mach 6, or
4,567mph (7,349kph) when powered by a twin turbofan-/dual ramjet based
combined-cycle propulsion system. Lockheed
Martin describes the SR-72—to be available by 2030—as being an intelligence,
surveillance, reconnaissance, and strike platform, but its exact mission
tasking/payload remains a secret.
Ramjets forgo the big
rotary compressors needed on turbofans and instead rely on their own forward
motion to compress air. First, air is scooped into an inlet and compressed as
it funnels into a diffuser. The diffuser also slows the air to subsonic speeds
for easier combustion. From there, air and fuel are fed into a combustion
chamber and ignited. Finally, an exhaust nozzle accelerates the resulting burst
of hot, expanding air, producing massive thrust. Turbofans can take an aircraft
from runway launch to about Mach 3; speeds faster than that require an
air-breathing ramjet, which compresses high-speed air for combustion, but which
typically begins operating at about Mach 4. To bridge the gap, engineers of Aerojet
Rocketdyne are developing a hybrid engine that can operate in three modes. The
aircraft will accelerate to about Mach 3 under turbofan power, then switch to
ramjet power to take it to about Mach 5, and then switch again to scramjet
mode, which uses supersonic air for combustion. Aerodynamic friction at speeds
exceeding Mach 5 will heat an aircraft’s exterior to 2,000 degrees Celsius. At
that point, conventional steel airframes will melt. Hence, Lockheed Martin’s engineers
are looking at composites—the same kinds of high-performance carbon, ceramic,
and metal mixes used for the nosecones of ICBMs, SLBMs and space shuttles. Every
joint and seam of the airframe must be sealed. Any air-leak at hypersonic
speed, and the in-rushing heat would cause the aircraft to collapse. (That’s
what had doomed the space shuttle Columbia). The stresses on an aircraft shift
as it travels through subsonic, supersonic, and hypersonic speeds. For
instance, when an aircraft is accelerating through subsonic flight, the centre-of-lift
moves toward the back of the aircraft. But once the aircraft hits hypersonic
speeds, drag on the aircraft’s leading egdes cause the centre-of-lift to move
forward again. If the centre-of-lift gets too close to the centre-of-gravity it
can cause dangerous instability. The SR-72’s shape must tolerate these changes,
and more, to keep the aircraft from tearing apart.
However, what remains
unanswered till this day is why would Lockheed Martin’s Skunk Works and Aerojet Rocketdyne
spend exorbitant amounts of R & D funds on the SR-72 when they have already
developed hypersonic aircraft like the SR-75 Penetrator, which uses pulse
detonation wave engines (PDWE) and an aero-thermodynamic airframe design. On a
hypersonic vehicle, thermal management is very critical, the cooling capacity
of the fuel must be used carefully and efficiently, or else the range and
endurance of the aircraft will be limited by heating rather than the actual
fuel tank capacity. So how does the SR-75 reach such hypersonic speeds? Choosing the right type of fuel is
crucial to the success of the SR-75. Because various sections of the craft will
reach cruising-speed temperatures, its fuel must both provide energy for the PDWE
engines and also act as a structural coolant extracting destructive heat from
the airframe’s surface. At hypersonic speeds, even exotic kerosene such as the
special high-flashpoint JP-7 fuel used by the SR-71 Blackbird can’t absorb
enough heat. The only plausible solution therefore is cryogenic fuel. The best
possibilities are methane and hydrogen. Liquid hydrogen provides more than
three times as much energy and absorbs six times more heat per pound than any
other fuel. The downfall is its low density, which means larger fuel tanks, a
larger airframe and more drag.
While liquid hydrogen is the fuel of
choice for space launch vehicles that accelerate quickly out of the atmosphere,
studies have shown that liquid methane is better for an aircraft cruising at
Mach 5 to Mach 7. Methane is widely available, provides more energy than jet-fuels,
and can absorb five times as much heat as kerosene. Compared with liquid
hydrogen, it is also three times denser and easier to handle. So, at regular
speeds, the SR-75 is powered by traditional turbofans built into the lower
fuselage. Once it hits supersonic speed, the PDWE takes over. A PDWE
works by sending liquid methane or liquid hydrogen into the engine. The
fuel mist is then ignited. This detonation is made inside a specially designed
chamber and occurs when the aircraft is travelling at supersonic
speeds. At such speeds, a ‘thrust wall’ is created. This is when the aircraft
is travelling so fast, air is pushed near the nose that creates a ‘wall’. When
the detonation occurs, the aircraft’s thrust-wall is pushed forward, and this
is repeated numerous times to propel the aircraft forward. The consequent jet
stream looks like ‘donuts-on-a-rope’.
There is also work now underway in the
US, France and Japan to develop pulse detonation turbines for higher efficiency
power generation. Pratt & Whitney is developing a new combustor for turbofans that uses shockwaves for more efficient combustion through a process known as continuous detonation. GE Aero Engines has also been working on
pulse detonation. When fitted to a conventional
turbofan, CDWE technology offers to transform overall engine performance and
simplify its design by using detonation waves to combust the fuel and oxidizer
mixture. Theoretically, this system can operate from subsonic up to a
hypersonic flight-speeds of roughly Mach 5, with higher efficiency than
existing turbofans. This is because a detonation-wave rapidly compresses the
mixture and adds heat at constant volume, thereby providing a thermal
efficiency improvement of approximately 25%.
The SR-75’s airframe may well incorporate
stealth technology, but it does not really require it should its mission simply
involve high-altitude reconnaissance. Hypersonic aircraft are much harder to
shoot down than a ballistic missile. Although a hypersonic aircraft isn’t very
manoeuvrable, its velocity is such that even a small turn puts it miles away
from a SAM’s projected (via the proportional navigation technique) interception
point.
The UK’s Ministry of Defence would have
you believe that nothing untoward occurred at Boscombe Down, Wiltshire, on the
night of September 26, 1994. But something sinister did happen at the airfield
that night. The fact that the incident involved the US’ most highly-classified black
project aircraft helps to explain the scale (and to some extent the subtlety)
of the disinformation campaign which ensured. The story had begun to unfold on
that windswept night as the aircraft began its takeoff run along Runway 23.
Whatever happened in the few seconds following application of takeoff power was
sufficiently catastrophic for the two-man USAF aircrew to abort departure
immediately. Military controllers at the London Air Traffic Control Centre (LATCC)
were alerted either directly or indirectly to the fact that a serious incident
had occurred, and that the runway was blocked. Later that night, the stranded
aircraft was seen by at least one witness near the eastern end of Boscombe Down’s
Runway 23. A tarpaulin-covered frame had already been erected above the
aircraft’s forward section, around which were a number of emergency-response
vehicles. The rear section appeared unnaturally elevated by virtue of an
apparent nose-wheel collapse, the only clearly definable characteristic being inward
canting twin fins. Early the next day, one of four British Army Air Corps
Agusta A-109 helicopters transited to Boscombe Down from Bournemouth-Hurn. All
four A-109s were then exclusively operated by the Special Air Service (SAS),
which has a base at Poole, near Hurn. Is it possible that a covert sealing-off operation
was set in motion? It has also been suggested that at least one RAF Chinook was
scrambled from Odiham to Boscombe Down late that night for just that purpose. The sighting was followed that same evening by a separate
sighting of a grey USAF C-5 Galaxy on the ground at Boscombe Down. The aircraft
had been monitored on airband radio as it cancelled its flight-plan to the USAF
European HQ at Ramstein in Germany, and requested a diversion to Boscombe Down.
On arrival, the C-5 parked on the ramp outside the DRA/DTEO hangar. It is
likely that the incident aircraft was normally housed in one of Boscombe’s
hardened air shelters (HAS). However, in the aftermath of the incident the
first priority would have been to move the aircraft under cover to a place
where the C-5 could undertake a loading or unloading procedure with minimum
risk. With the taxiways leading to the shelters unable to accommodate an
aircraft as large as the C-5, the most logical option would indeed have been to
move the aircraft to the DRA/DTEO hangar. Despite these precautions, an
unidentifiable tarpaulin-covered object was seen to be loaded into the C-5.
This flight-plan (evidence of which has since disappeared) used a non-standard
callsign of Lanc 18, but more noteworthy was its destination which was listed
as KPMD. This is the ICAO airfield designator for Palmdale, California, better
known as Air Force Plant 42 and home to the assembly lines of both the Lockheed
Martin and Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems and Integration Division. The
Boscombe Down incident aircraft is designated as the ASTRA, was originally referred
to as AV-6 (Air Vehicle Six, its construction number), and was allocated USAF
serial 90-2414. It routinely used frequencies in the 500 to 510 mHz range
(highly unusual and beyond the tuning range of standard UHF scanner radios) and
was operating with the callsign Blackbuck 11. It had been operating in tandem
with at least one other aircraft. ASTRA is an acronym standing for Advanced
Stealth Technology Reconnaissance Aircraft. The prime contractor was Northrop,
with McDonnell Douglas (MDC) involvement, and the aircraft is directly related
to the YF-23 (unsuccessful ATF contender). No doubt most controversial of all,
the ASTRA is believed to be the Mach 5+ hypersonic tactical reconnaissance
aircraft, most commonly referred to until now as Aurora. This, along with its
YF-23 lineage, will be a major surprise to those who either denied the
existence of a manned hypersonic project, or assumed it to be a product of
Lockheed Skunk Works. Lockheed Martin has consistently denied involvement in a
hypersonic project but in June 1991, Northrop Grumman had quietly set up its
own version of the ‘Skunk Works’, called the Advanced Technology and Design
Center, to pursue what it acknowledged to be both manned and unmanned ‘black
project’ developments. It also began testing a distributed-exhaust/pressurised
wing concept. The technology was said to be related to at least one US Dept of
Defense ‘black aircraft’ project. It may be that the ASTRA is actually the
project involved (rather than a special forces transport type as suggested),
given that the concept involves using bleed-air from the engines and pumping it
through the wings’ upper surfaces, and given that the YF-23 had bleed-air doors
in the wing upper surface near the leading-edge wing-root, the purpose of which
was claimed to be suction removal of the boundary layer from the underwing air
intake.
The first evidence of flights by
hypersonic vehicles emerged in 1989, with eyewitness reports of the
characteristic ‘doughnuts on a rope’ contrails produced by the pulsing motion
of a PDWE, which detonated the fuel in the jetpipe and expelled some of the
gases created through inlets at the forward end of the pipe. At this early
stage in flight-testing there were probably no more than two prototypes in the
programme, with 1987 fiscal serials corresponding to the original project
go-ahead. In February 1985 (just after Tacit Blue was grounded), there was an inadvertent
leak in the US federal budget regarding Aurora funding, which showed US$80
million being requested for FY 1986, rising to a massive US$2.2 billion in
1987, the same year in which the YF-23 prototypes were funded. If the ASTRA was
nested in Aurora, or indeed came to be the new name used when Aurora’s cover
had been blown, then the funding request is consistent with the funding of one
or two prototypes in 1987, which would not have been completed and flown until
1989. The greater proportion of hypersonic aircraft activity took place after
February 1992, with night sightings of unusual activity at Beale AFB, and loud
anomalous noises described as similar to sustained artillery firing, likely to
have been caused by ground runnings of the PDWE. The aircraft were only present
at Beale AFB for a matter of months, probably for pre-operational
familiarisation. In addition, it is known that a security policeman at Beale AFB
reported seeing a YF-23-like aircraft hangared there (in one of the SR-71
sheds) in nearly 1992. There was apparently little attempt to disguise the aircraft's
presence, because it was surrounded by personnel wearing blue MDC overalls. The
YF-23 prototypes themselves had ceased flying in late December 1990, pending
the ATF contract award in April 1991.
In August 1989, Chris Gibson, a Scottish
oil-exploration engineer and, at the time, a member of the British Royal
Observer Corps (ROC), was working on the oil rig Galveston Key in the North Sea
when he noticed an aircraft in the shape of a pure isoceles triangle refuelling
from a USAF KC-135 Stratotanker alongside two USAF F-111s. The unknown
aircraft, cruising in a formation northward through Air-to-Air Refuelling Area
(AARA) 6A, is what people have come to believe, was the mysterious AV-6 Astra,
which used to use the RAF airbase at
Machrihanish, Strathclyde—with its three-mile-long runway—as a staging post for
Mach 4, 200,000 feet-high dashes home across the North Sea. The aircraft has
also been spotted across the US, in Norway and the Netherlands, often to the
accompaniment of a deafening sonic boom and its characteristic ‘donuts-on-a-string’
contrail. Below, Chris Gibson explains precisely
what happened, as well as giving an insight into himself.
“I welcome any questions on my North Sea sighting, as I am of the opinion that too much is taken at face value in the black aircraft snark hunt. I think that the snark hunt has degenerated into an exercise in regurgitating the same old stories with little or no new research being done. A bit about me. I work as a drilling technologist for a major oil field service company. I hold an Honours degree in geology, with some engineering, geophysics and chemistry thrown in. I also did a post graduate course in systems analysis, I was a member of the ROC for 13 years and was a member of the ROC’s aicraft recognition team for 12 of those years. In this field I was considered to be an expert and produced an aircraft recognition manual for the ROC. Some will obviously know the sighting story, but I will fill you in on what happened from my point of view. I was working in the indefatigable field on the jack-up rig ‘Galvestion Key’ in August 1989. My colleague, Graeme Winton, went out on deck but returned immediately. He told me to “have a look at this.” We went outside and Graeme pointed skywards. I had been at university with Graeme and he knew of my interest in aircraft. As far as Graeme was concerned it was a formation of aircraft and he reckoned I’d be interested. I looked up, saw the tanker and the F-111s, but was amazed to see the triangle. I am trained in instant recognition, but this triangle had me stopped dead. My first thought was that it was another F-111, but there was no gaps, it was too long and it didn’t look like one. My next thought was that it was an F-117, as the highly swept planform of the F-117 had just been made public. Again the triangle was too long and had no gaps. After considering and rejecting a Mirage IV, I was totally out of ideas. Here was an aircraft, flying over head, not too high and not particularly fast. A recognition gift and I was clueless. This was a new experience. Graeme asked me what was going on. I watched as the formation flew overhead and told him that the big one was a KC-135 Stratotanker, the two on the left were F-111s and that I didn’t know what the fourth aircraft was. Graeme said “I thought you were an expert?” I said “I am.” To which Graeme replied “Some expert.” It was obvious to me that this aircraft was something ‘dodgy’. I watched the formation for a minute or two and went back inside with Graeme. At the time I was writing the aircraft recognition manual and had a Danish Luftmelderkorpset Flykendingsbog in my briefcase. This is probably the best aircraft recognition book ever produced. I looked through it, but nothing matched. I then sketched what I had seen and sent this to Peter Edwards, who was a Group Officer in the ROC and was also on the recognition team. We discussed what to do about it but decided that if it was reported through official channels, it would be at best rubbished, at worst lead to trouble. Having signed the Official Secrets Act I didn’t want to jeopardise my position in the recognition team, so I kept my mouth shut. I told other members of the recognition team in the hope that they could shed some light on the subject. On returning home I had a look through my book collection. The only aircraft which came close to matching what I had seen was a Handley Page HP-115. It was not one of them. Whether this aircraft was a Aurora is debatable—my background precludes jumping to conclusions based on a single piece of evidence. I wrote to Bill Sweetman (Stealth expert) after being sent an illustration from Janes Defense Weekly, which matched what I had seen.”
In an article titled: ‘Sightings and
Engineers’ Dreams Taking to Skies as Black Aircraft’, written by Bill Scott, and
published in Aviation Week & Space Technology on December 24, 1990, on
page 42, paragraph 2 speaks of “well choreographed show-and-tell sessions given
to selected members of the US Congress and key government officials”. At one
such ‘dog and pony’ show held at Norton AFB on November 12, 1988, the
second-generation ‘Aurora’ aircraft was put on display. This exhibit of various
classified aircraft was arranged to garner further financial backing for
special access or ‘black’ programmes. The second-generation Aurora looked very
similar in appearance to the F-19, with the exception of the pilot and tail assembly.
It also featured eight air-intakes instead of the four used on the manned F-19
version. A clear lineage of this specific aircraft type can now be identified.
Regarding the propulsion system used on
the aircraft shown at Norton AFB, it featured hundreds of tiny fuel ejector holes
located just aft of a ridge that ran laterally across the widest part of the
aircraft. Looking from the side, it resembled a flattened football shape with a
distinctive raised ridge or high-point that tapered back to the aft end. As for
the external appearance, it looked like the entire aircraft was composed of
black space shuttle heat-resistant tiles, which showed signs of scorched heat
thermal erosion, due to the exotic propulsion system. The concept being,
conventional turbofans would propel the craft to approximately Mach 3. At this
point, the eight NACA ducts would close, providing for a smooth aerodynamic surface.
Next, the craft would switch propulsion systems by turning off the turbofanss,
and begin spraying a highly modified slush hydrogen fuel directly at the raised
portion of the craft. By now, the craft, travelling in excess of Mach 3, would
begin to glow in a very dull red colour at the leading edges and mid-section.
Airflow over the vehicle at supersonic speeds caused a ‘wake separation’ to
occur at the slight lateral ridge, and fuel injected into this superheated,
highly compressed air-stream spontaneously combusted, expanding between the
tapered ‘after-body’ of the craft, and the supersonic shock wave which
separated at the ridge.
The TR-3B triangle-shaped
nuclear-powered aerospace platform, built in the mid-1980s by Lockheed Martin
and Teledyne Ryan, was developed under the Aurora programme—a top-secret,
multi-tier developmental roadmap for advanced aerospace vehicles. The TR-3B’s
outer coating is reactive to electrical stimulation and can change colour,
reflectiveness, and radar absorptiveness. This
is also the first US vehicle to use quasi-crystals in the vehicle’s skin. This
polymer skin, when used in conjunction with the TR-3B’s ECM suite, can make the
vehicle look like a small aircraft or a flying cylinder or even tricking
radars into falsely detecting a variety of aircraft, no aircraft, or several
aircraft at various locations. A circular, mercury-based plasma-filled
accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter (MFD) surrounds the
rotatable crew compartment and is far ahead of any imaginable technology. The
plasma is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees
Kelvin, and accelerated to 50,000 RPM to create a super-conductive plasma with
the resulting gravity disruption. Sandia National Labs and Lawrence Livermore Labs
co-developed the MFD, which generates a magnetic-vortex field that disrupts or
neutralises the effects of gravity on mass within proximity by 89%. This is not
anti-gravity, for anti-gravity provides a repulsive force that can be used for
propulsion. The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth’s gravitational field
upon the mass within the circular accelerator. The mass of the circular
accelerator—and all mass within the accelerator, such as the crew capsule and
the nuclear reactor—are reduced by almost 90%. This causes the effect of making
a vehicle extremely light and able to outperform and outmanoeuvre (horizontally
and vertically) any aircraft yet constructed. Except, of course, those ‘Unconventional
Flying Objects’ (UFO) not of Earthly origin. The TR-3B’s aerodynamic
performance is limited only the stresses that its human aircrew can endure.
Which is a lot, really, considering along with the 89% reduction in mass, the G
forces are also reduced by 89%. The TR-3B’s aircrew can therefore comfortably
sustain up to 40Gs which, when reduced by 89%, will be about 4.2 Gs.
By using electromagnetic forces to
contain rotating systems, it is possible for the masses to reach relativistic
velocities. Thus, a comparatively small amount of matter, if dense enough and
moving fast enough, can produce usable gravitational effects. The requirement
for a dense material moving at relativistic speeds would explain the use of
Mercury plasma (heavy ions). If the plasma really spins at 50,000 RPM and the
Mercury ions are also moving in a tight pitched spiral, then the individual
ions would be moving probably hundreds, perhaps thousands of times faster than
the bulk plasma spin, in order to execute their ‘screw thread’ motions. It is
quite conceivable that the ions could be accelerated to relativistic speeds in
this manner. For this to happen, it is necessary to strip the free electrons
from the plasma, making a positively charged plasma, since the free electrons
would tend to counter-rotate and reduce the efficiency of the MFD. One of Dr
Albert Einstein’s postulates of general relativity (GR) says that gravitational
mass and inertial mass are equivalent. This is consistent with claims of the inertial
mass within the mercury-based plasma ring also being reduced by 89%. This also
explains why the TR-3B is triange-shaped. Since it still requires conventional
thrusters for propulsion, the thrusters would need to be located outside of the
‘mass reduction zone’ or else the mass of the thrusters reaction material would
also be reduced, making them terribly inefficient. Since it requires a minimum
of three legs to have a stable stool, it follows that one would need a minimum
of three thrusters to have a stable aerospace platform. Three thrusters,
located outside of the plasma ring, plus appropriate structural support, would
naturally lead to a triangular shape for the vehicle.
The nuclear reactor
heats the liquid hydrogen and injects liquid oxygen in the supersonic thruster nozzles
(developed by Rockwell), so that the hydrogen burns concurrently in the liquid
oxygen afterburner. This multi-mode propulsion system can operate in the
atmosphere, with thrust being provided by the nuclear reactor, in the upper
atmosphere, with hydrogen propulsion; and in orbit, with the combined
hydrogen/oxygen propulsion. Directional propulsion is thus provided by the three
multi-mode thrusters mounted at each bottom corner of the triangular platform.
The TR-3B is a sub-Mach 9 vehicle until it reaches altitudes above 100,000
feet. It is 600 feet across, which would make it similar in size to an aircraft
carrier. At least three prototypes were built, each measuring about 60 metres
across, and the operational model is about 180 metres (600 feet) across. The
TR-3B can thus be used as a reconnaissance platform with an indefinite loiter
time.
586 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 586 of 586Dear Prasun,
Once upon a time both Africa & Asia continents are interlinked. Below part of asia is called Lemuria or kumari kandam which is connected from Africa to Australia.
My observation is humans started from single spices and evolution started to happen millions of year. Darwin theory is almost correct. After evolution of monkey spices which evolved into modern humans. During money time humans are in the mountain. Later he started to come to ground which is forest. Later he started to plough the field for food. Then he moved in sea to move do different land or continent and he went to Desert land.
All this five types of lands, mountain, forest, plain, sea and desert, humans undergone during his journey. If you see any sang am literature most of the text talks about this five types of land called KURNIJI, MULLAI, NEITHAL, PALAI & MARUTHAM.
To my knowledge Shiva may be first SUPER Human being. His clothes are tiger skin. Meaning cotton was not found during that time. Because of his power he must of done some miracle which humans started to worship him as God. Later other gods follow.
After the deluge in Kumari Kandam one group of people reached modrn day turkey through NOVA which started the Abhramic people.
If you see the Word TEMPLE meaning “THEN PURAM” in Tamil (southern direction) which is after the deluge people started to worship their ancestors in southern direction. Even from North India comes to Rameshwaram that is the reason. Those who can’t travel start worship in the structure called Temple. Later Gods are kept by kings which now Temples are used for Commercial purpose.
Discussion will continue.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Hi Prasun,
You said: "Any form of blacklisting WITHOUT a coherent & transparent reason that can be backed up by material evidence is AGAINST WTO regulations"
I don't think WTO's GATT applies to defense procurement. Any sovereign country's government is free to procure its defense equipment from anywhere and in which ever way that benefits its needs. Similar reason why some countries choose not to sell certain defense products to certain other countries - and no one can go griping to WTO!!
You're right that Finmeccanica, Italy and EU could choose to take some retaliatory measures. If this was two private entities doing business, then the conduct and outcomes would have been different. But, GOI cannot (for political and ethical reasons) condone a company that is proven to have tried to unfairly influence the purchase process. No RM (of any country) can advocate and defend that measure inside the parliament.
Bofors case was never proven, but it remained blacklisted for decades. The case against Finmeccanica is much much stronger.
Thanks,
OmniCurious.
@S.Senthil Kumar
You are still not completely out of the mindset yet see what you have mentioned "My observation is humans started from single spices and evolution started to happen millions of year. Darwin theory is almost correct. After evolution of monkey spices which evolved into modern humans. During money time humans are in the mountain. Later he started to come to ground which is forest. Later he started to plough the field for food. Then he moved in sea to move do different land or continent and he went to Desert land." this itself is a flawed statement first if humans evolved from monkeys why did the other monkeys did not get even 50 percent evolved (the Bonobo is the closest in DNA matching 99 percent that of Humans that gives them some chance at least) Humans in mountain OK monkeys are known climbers then they adapted to stay in mountains later came down to forest and adapted again then all of a sudden started ploughing field (coming down from mountains living in forest understood ploughing how the heck can one plough when one does not know what is the time required for plants to grow what will the germinating shoot look like) in the mean time what happened to hunting? Now moving to the sea how did they travel over sea with the continental drift on ice (Ice age 3) living in desert why they know there is oil below? On top of it you are using Darwin's theory a western(those thieves that had no knowledge but stole ours) to prove it. Finally Shiva a superhuman (look at you how could you demote God of Gods to mere superhuman). You are contradicting yourself good (this the first step of realization) keep going you will come to term with the other. I would like to borrow one statement from Lord Krishna "every thing old and UN-evolving will be replaced". (read with open mind)
Dear Rat,
Rat:." this itself is a flawed statement first if humans evolved from monkeys why did the other monkeys did not get even 50 percent evolved (the Bonobo is the closest in DNA matching 99 percent that of Humans that gives them some chance at least)”
Answer: Don’t ask question why other monkeys did not evolve. Because may be its gene related or growth related issues which did not evolve further.
Rat: “(coming down from mountains living in forest understood ploughing how the heck can one plough when one does not know what is the time required for plants to grow what will the germinating shoot look like)”
Answer: All the sudden it not happened. During forest times he may got the food from trees & Plants. Field is the extension of forest which thousands of years slowly he leant the art of cultivation.
.......continued in next post
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Dear Rat,
Rat: “in the meantime what happened to hunting?”
Answer: He never forget hunting. He uses the hunting tactics for domestication of animals like Cow, Horse etc. for war, milk etc.
Rat: “Now moving to the sea how they did travel over sea with the continental drift on ice (Ice age 3) living in desert why they know there is oil below?”
Answer: Sea voyage started after Kumari Kandam submerged. He start with tree woods. Katumaram meaning in tamil wood with rope. Till today katumaram is used by fisher man.
Rat:”On top of it you are using Darwin's theory a western(those thieves that had no knowledge but stole ours) to prove it.”
Answer: I am not sure but I heard that Mahaballipuram structures contain human evolution theory sculpted in the stone like Darwin theory. But I need to confirm.
Rat: “Finally Shiva a superhuman (look at you how could you demote God of Gods to mere superhuman)”
Answer: Some called Shiva as called God. Some called as super humans etc. But he is more than the ordinary human. But ET, Aliens etc we dont have solid proof.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
@OmniCurious
Where is the Proof!!!... So far it is conjecture!!!???
Isnt the RM obligation to the Defence of our Country too??? ... All this Chest Thumping and loud speeches from Previous RM and Govts has taken 3 decades to induct a new artillery! AND All is Happy with the Dhanush and "Made in India" without realizing that IT TOOK 3 Decades
@RAT Thats a must watch for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wr-lXLGCxQ
Hi,
We grounded agustawestland helicopters when media reported corruption in the deal.
We should apply the same logic to Pilatus and ground all aircraft and wait for HAL HTT-40 FOC (will take 3 to 4 years) so that IAF becomes pilotless air force.
Prasun Da,
In reply to a poster you said:
"Project Varsha's NAOB was designed by a team of US-based heavy engineering consultants"
Will you please state which US company/firm you are referring to?
Thanks
Dear Prasun & Rat,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYiH5snMYU
Please see above link for Evolution theory mentioned in Mahabalipuram temple. I cant support or deny whether Darwin took the idea from here.
But one thing is clear, today's Human is because of Evolution.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
To OMNICURIOUS: It doesn't matter what you think is or ought to be true or be the case. Do read up about WTO, GATT etc etc & then arrive at a conclusion. If the value of weapons exports & purchases are included in computations for bilateral trade estimates (bilateral trade balance) between the purchasing & seller countries, then why should military-industrial activities not come within the ambit of WTO? If it a country's sovereign right ti select or reject weapons exports offers, then why accept international arbitration to solve military contractual disputes? Therefore, please do some homework on this issue before deriving your assumptions.
As for "that is proven to have tried to unfairly influence the purchase process". WHERE is the proof? Everyone is asking only this 1 question. Do you have any such proof that is admissible in a court of law? If not, then your perception is just another hunch like that of the Indian RM, who sees the 'invisible hand'. Fine, then can he show to the court this 'invisible hand' or prove its existence? The whole world is waiting since 2013 to see this 'invisible hand' which for some bizarre reason remains elusive.
To S. SENTHIL KUMAR: Do you really believe that any super human being will settle for tiger skin or cotton fabric as raw materials for his garments? If yes, then it will be an insult to his status as a super human being, rest assured.
To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: Bechtel Corp & a few others are involved.
http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/india-iran-chabahar-port-deal-narendra-modi-2829537/
The situation is win-win for India.It is the biggest future defence market and companies trying to inflate prices or threaten will be out of the process indefinitely.This is not the 1980s or 90s anymore where somebody could threaten India and get away with it.
The company will have to lower prices for spares or future contracts or loose out to several other alternative options.
The middlemen and the arms agents are feeling the biggest pinch right now
To CONCERNED: Living in cuckoo land, are you? What alternative options are you boasting about? List them! And also their timeframes for implementation! And who will foot the bill for these alternative options? India will NEVER be the world's biggest defence market. The GCC member-states will continue to be. There's no money to even buy the 145 LW-155/M-777 UFHs & the 16 NMRHs that have been talked about for over a decade & you're delirious about India being the world's biggest defence market??? What are you, a toddler or a delinquent?
i have been waiting for update on russian black projects
Hi Prasun,
I feel that you maybe conflating disparate aspects. Even though purchase of defense equipment will be deemed as bilateral trade and it's computation show up in BOP, but still a country will not be charged with 'protectionism' if it refuses to trade in defense equipment. Just because US is signatory to WTO GATT, it is not mandatory that cheap Chinese fighter jets should be considered by USAF!!
The arbitration clause could be added to any contract (military or otherwise) as a fail safe to guard against failure to execute by either parties. That doesn't mean that the arbitrator will have carte blanche on all future dealings of individual parties!!
You, as a defense analyst, probably know that Indian defense contracts explicitly prohibit the influence of any kind of middlemen. Even though the illegal money transfer hasn't been proven; enough evidentiary material has been admitted by the Italian court that establishes the existence of middlemen and an intent to unfairly influence the outcome. As I said before - Bofors suffered blacklisting with far less evidentiary support.
Net-net, it is not beyond the pale of imagination or reasonableness that Finmeccanica should suffer the fate that RM is calling for. The company can take legal route to clear its name if it desires, but the Supreme court cannot force the defense establishment to consider Finmeccanica for its 'future' procurement. Finmeccanica can only move the court to claim 'damages' for wrongful termination of existing contract; it can still not force the MoD to accept Finmeccanica's goods!
Thanks,
OmniCurious.
Hi Prasun,
For your leisure reading (WTO's Security exceptions):
https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/gatt_ai_e/art21_e.pdf
Thanks,
OmniCurious
To OMNICURIOUS: Which OEM is to be selected for fulfilling a contract is perfectly the sovereign right of any state, but when a state floats global tenders (as opposed to restricted tenders) & does not make it accessible to all interested OEMs, then indeed it becomes a trade-related issue. This is radically the opposite of the example you've given about the US-China. The US neither seeks to export military hardware to China nor does it seek to import China-made military hardware. So, in India's case too it will not be legally tenable to blacklist just Leonardo Finmeccanica while allowing OEMs from Italy like Barretta & Fincantieri to do business. Furthermore, the AW-101 being the product of a joint UK-Italian industrial consortium, UK-based OEMs too will eventually be dragged into this quagmire, since Leonardo Finmeccanics is a MNC & its components are on board various platforms worldwide. Several such components are already on various DRDO-designed weapon systems. Let's see how the DRDO now begins looking for alternative sources.
As for your claim of "enough evidentiary material has been admitted by the Italian court that establishes the existence of middlemen and an intent to unfairly influence the outcome", kindly produce some of this material in this thread from either of the 2 Italian court judgments delivered so far. Neither any material evidence nor any forensic evidence about any financial trail leading to anyone involved with decision-making on the AW-101 deal has been unearthed anywhere in this world by anyone so far. But like I stated earlier, if you possess such evidence, then kindly reproduce it here for everyone's benefit. If you can't, then we all will have to conclude that like the RM's hunch about an 'invisible hand', you too had only a hunch about the existence of such evidentiary materials.
To ARPIT KANODIA & S SENTHIL KUMAR: How ancient Egyptians used NOT iron mined from Earth, but iron derived from extraterrestrial meteorites for making weapons, this as per the latest disclosures by Egyptian & Italian scientists yesterday, all of which were explained yesterday here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1saaBLX6zPI
Meanwhile, China-Indonesia relations are taking a hit, as the PLA Navy's South Sea Fleet is now conducting massive anti-naval blockade operations along archipelagic Indonesia's Sunda, Lombok & Ombak Straits. Indonesia is also undertaking a massive beef-up of its airpower & naval infantry power projection capacities in Natuna Besar Island in the South China Sea. It's all explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2xyIYVy-e4
Hi Prasun,
Don't mean to drag this back-n-forth. I feel we need to discriminate between India's right to do something vs the complexity/effort of dealing with the outcome. I thought your initial posts argued that India didn't have the right to do what RM is suggesting and hence the premise of my posts. What MoD will do to overcome the fallout is an entirely different question - it's quite possible that we'll have a similar period like post-Bofors scandal of lacklustre procurement.
As regards the case in the Italian courts, I had already stated "Even though the illegal money transfer hasn't been proven...", so I don't understand your ask for "forensic evidence about any financial trail leading to anyone involved with decision-making". However, the courts have admitted the existence of middlemen, like that of Christian Michel, who were trying to influence the deal - this in itself breaks the 'Integrity pact'
-OmniCurious
Dear Prasun,
Thanks for your reply.
About Egypt Iron: First we should ensure meteorites type of Iron is not available in the earth during that time. May be imported from far countries in the earth during pyramid time or due to volcanic & tectonic changes meteorite Iron may be available during ancient time. We need to wait for more proof.
Shiva's tiger skin or cotton fabric: Worshiper in due course of time must have started to carve the stones with tiger skin or cotton fabrics for Shiva statue or paintings. We don't know the early stage of Shiva. Mostly Shiva is represented in Shiva lingam in most of the places.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
There are two ways to look at this madness by RM.
1. They (BJP) lost the PLOT. Have done a TYPICAL indian thing. Blame SOMEONE else. This then is FOOL hardy. Will this mean the world BEGINS to take india SERIOUSLY?
2. Have taken a LONG TERM view. India faces NO real threat at the MOMENT. Lets TRY to DEVELOP capabilities OURSELVES. Yes it is PAINFUL but we have to TRY. Give BREATHING space to our INDUSTRY. Otherwise we will CONTINUE to be SUBSERVIENT to world POWERS and continue to be the worlds largest IMPORTER of weapons.
I hope its POINT 2.
@SSK,
Please dude cut the shit. I met a man like you once from Kerala, he claimed they came from Indus civilisation. I said to him he doesn't look much like the Sindhi's. Claims and counter claims NOT based on FACTS. Yes, you have had shitty 2000yrs of history, so what? You accomplished something important, SURVIVED. Now do something for TOMORROW. Even if you BUILD some TOILETS it will HELP.
RAT666
Just an example, HAL are showcasing HTT-40, developed with their own money. Why did IAF buy the PC-7? If it was upto the forces they would import everything!!! the policy needs to change. It should be no more imports. We develop and no more imports. There are millions of trained grads coming each year and they want a job in india. Why give money to exporters abroad, so that they can employee their own people and be-little indians. When will a flight of LCA fly on the republic day, ratherthan imported jets? When you do see LCA on the republic day, it is carried on the back of a truck, whilst imported ones are flying high above. Before you criticize MP, think where he is coming from.
RAT666
@RAT666
You are a good actor, you should try in Film industry in Mumbai. They still accepting green passport while all other country are rejecting that passport.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1055427/pakistani-passport-second-worst-for-international-travel/
Yes, boy you blown your cover by saying this.
""""Please dude cut the shit. I met a man like you once from Kerala, he claimed they came from Indus civilisation. I said to him he doesn't look much like the Sindhi's. Claims and counter claims NOT based on FACTS. Yes, you have had shitty 2000yrs of history, so what? You accomplished something important, SURVIVED. Now do something for TOMORROW. Even if you BUILD some TOILETS it will HELP. """"
""""When will a flight of LCA fly on the republic day, ratherthan imported jets? When you do see LCA on the republic day, it is carried on the back of a truck, whilst imported ones are flying high above. Before you criticize MP, think where he is coming from.""""
Yes boy, I visit PDF lot of time and I know from where this typical argument coming from and to defend shortcomings of Pakistan and JF-17.
But not here this style going to work. Atleast have some guts to use original handles and come up with real identity. And even why using handle, are you ashamed of your name?
Or you are so afraid to be a Pakistani? Like in every country people kicking arse of Pakistani, you afraid PKS too kick your arse out of here?
@arpit,
You were born and raised in a house where they looked for everything negative and you have learn't to latch onto it for dear life, like a rabid dog?
These things are beyond your comprehension.
Like I told you before, please shoo off.
RAT666
@RAT666
Seriously, again you come up with Anonymous, this is so hard to make a Gmail account? Or in Pakistan this is also so hard?
Have some decency and self respect.
And your claim to be Indian
"""You accomplished something important, SURVIVED. Now do something for TOMORROW. Even if you BUILD some TOILETS it will HELP."""
An another Indian referring to other Indian as "YOU", not "US" or "WE"? Which Indian you are, Red Indian? Or an Indian sitting on Mars, that referring to all other Indian as "YOU"?
And BTW, how you know in IV civilizations were "Goras" and not black? In that sense mayans were also Anglo Saxons not similar to Red Indians?
@Prasun da
maine kaha tha na, China is in PoK
http://www.asianage.com/india/china-s-pakistan-occupied-kashmir-footprint-now-25-cent-902
in probabliity it looks slowly Pak will handover PoK to China then we will have to fight with China over it
you have said Vietnam will never buy Brahmos but looks like Vietnam even South Africa will buy the missile
http://aajtak.intoday.in/story/to-take-on-chinas-increasing-hegemony-in-asia-modi-govt-has-cleared-sale-of-brahmos-supersonic-cruise-missile-to-vietnam-1-872297.html
your view
Joydee Ghosh
PKS Sir,
Isnt you think PRC overusing gunboat diplomacy and brinkmanship? And that too unnecessary? Some years ago, Indonesia was pro China. And now with idiotic policy, it seems Indonesia also joining Coalition of willing.
Further, it also looks like Vietnam already joined US Asian pivot policy.
Russia already seeing China as threat, but unable to do anything because of current financial crunch in Russia.
Why China want every country as a enemy to them? The USSR unable to sustain this, even after Iron Curtain.
How China planing to sustain this, in this situation when this is almost clear that China unable to overtake US financial might anytime soon.
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: LoLz! It has been reported & shown in various Pakistani TV programmes before (since 2009) that Chinese citizens are involved in the construction of various hydroelectric power generation installations throughout PoK. As for Vietnam, I have been reading such stories since 2001. So what's new? Instead, in order to assist those with brains who understand where to market, I had earlier uploaded the weblink that explains tensions between Indonesia & China.
To OMNICURIOUS: RE: "However, the courts have admitted the existence of middlemen, like that of Christian Michel, who were trying to influence the deal--this in itself breaks the 'Integrity pact'---------------------No Italian court verdict has so far labelled Christian Michel as the 'middleman'. They couldn't, because Michel had a signed & sealed & now confirmed (by the desi journalists who went to Dubai to interview him) contract for delivering post-contractual work packages (like arranging for the AW-101s to be airfreighted to India) that is valued at almost 7 million Euros. Middlemen don;t handle such servicing contracts. Only sub-contractors do. The term 'middleman' has been used ONLY by the 'desi' newspapers & broadcast TV channels, but after interviewing Christian Michel last month (all of whose YouTube weblinks I had uploaded) ALL of them have fallen silent & are no longer attacking Christian Michel. That in itself tells a lot. Therefore, I suggest that you yourself see all this & then form an opinion, & not only on parroting the erroneous conclusions reached by others.
To ARPIT KANODIA: Now that the US arms embargo against Vietbam has been lifted, expect Vietnam, along with Indonesia & The Philippines, to be supplied with several JMSDF pre-owned P-3C Orions & AGM-84 Harpoons. That video-clip on Indonesia's buildup on Natuna Besar Island says it all.
Dear Rat666,"
From your post I can notice two things.
"I said to him he doesn't look much like the Sindhi's." - So you are telling that Sindhi people only stayed in Indus valley. Ok show the proof. We will discuss.
"Now do something for TOMORROW. Even if you BUILD some TOILETS it will HELP. " - I can assume either your house don't have toilet or your place or country don't have toilet. Just request all the members in this forum. Tell the location also. Everyone will contribute. So you can have a good toilet.
Note: This is social discussion forum. Every members in this forum are employed in outside job. They use forums to discuss technical, political, ancient etc to share their views. No need any advice.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
What CPEC will do when Pakistan will not survive. Then India will have to repair it all. India should prepare CPEC repair plan in advance.
PrasunDa,
(1) Last month The Hindu had reported that China is encouraging North Eastern terrorist groups to intensify their activities. Is there any truth in these reports?
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/china-instigated-naga-outfit-centre/article8634091.ece
(2) Earlier today India Today reported that BRAHMOS will be exported to Vietnam. Any truth in this?
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-china-bramos-missiles-modi-government-vietnam/1/683455.html
Thank You
VIKRAM
Hi Prasun,
I don't think you're so naive as to think that bribes/illegal-commissions will have an journal entry as 'Bribes'. Obviously, they'll be hidden under vague entries. As you admitted that Michel had contracts valuing 7 million Euros; however the court has admitted that he received about 30 million Euros in payments!!
I don't really understand your strong interest in exonerating Finmeccanica; there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that something amiss was going on, enough to put the dealings with the company on hold. Of course, Finmeccanica can move courts to clear its name (and it probably should). But from any governments perspective the right course of action is to suspend the dealings (even if it's monetarily not the profitable route).
Further, Agustawestland may have been the right product for the services sought. However, if actors involved are suspected of wrongdoing, then no government can just brush it aside and continue doing business as usual!
I am glad we're not debating about WTO provisions any further.
You probably still have strong views on the subject. This is my last response on the subject.
Thanks,
OmniCurious.
Dear Prasun,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEcLkodOE4c
The forbidden research for the The God Particle, Shiva & Cern: It is the baby step for humans to know their past.
One group of science talks about Evolution Theory. Another group Creation theory. Let us wait & watch.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
To OMNICURIOUS: Your Interpretation: I don't think you're so naive as to think that bribes/illegal-commissions will have an journal entry as 'Bribes'. Obviously, they'll be hidden under vague entries. As you admitted that Michel had contracts valuing 7 million Euros; however the court has admitted that he received about 30 million Euros in payments!!
REALITY: Which court has admitted this? In which judgment? Can you quote it? Just because a witness makes an on-record statement or remark does not mean it is the gospel truth unless & until it is all proven with supporting material (not circumstantial) evidence. That's why the forensic evidence to prove the financial trail is of utmost importance & such evidence can today be gathered within 5 working days, & not 3 years! Christian Michel has openly & repeatedly stated on various Indian TV channels his intention to submit all his contractual documents & related financial transactions for scrutiny & he has also included such documentation in his ongoing defamation case in a Swiss Court against Guido Haschke. Therefore, it will be better if you really bother to go into the details, instead of pronouncing someone guilty, since you too may face a similar situation in future & then what if you too are declared guilty without anything being proven against you? Are you one of those who ardently believes in a pregnant Sita being pronounced guilty of adultery & being banished while being denied the chance to defend herself? If yes, then I sure hope a similar fate befalls you very soon & let us all then see how you start scavenging for your defence against a pile of circumstantial evidence gathered against you! It's always easy to throw stones at others, until you yourself become the target of stone-pelting. Also, kindly illuminate us all here on any legal case from anywhere in this world where the judge or jury convicted anyone based purely on circumstantial evidence. Ask any of your friends with legal background whether your presumptions & insinuations are legally tenable.
Therefore, it's not about me or anyone else exonerating Leonardo Finmeccanica or finding it guilty. Instead, it's a matter of principle & also about due process & the supremacy of the law of the land being upheld without fear or favour. This principle applies to every institution, every individual;, every family, every community. society & country & there are scores of international conventions/treaties to this effect & India is a signatory to them as well.
You may have also not yet realised the extent of damage caused to the institution of the IAF by all those pathetic creatures who have levelled all possible kinds of allegations of wrongdoing based purely on suppositions, insinuations & presumptions. It may well be inconsequential to you, but it is something that hurts me the most. And unlike you, I prefer not to bask in the luxury of finding solace in over-simplistic assumptions & legends. Of course you will not comprehend any of this, until one day you find yourself at the receiving end of the very recipe for action that you are now recommending or supporting. Tabhi jaake doodh ka dooth aur paani ka paani hoga. But by then, it may be too late for you.
To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) How can China be the country that's inciting the NSCN-K when this outfit is based in Myanmar (& not in China) & it is armed with weapons designed by H & K of Germany & Colt Firearms of the US? It is Myanmar that's in control over its sovereign territory, or is it China? If there's conclusive evidence against China, then why doesn't India go to the UNSC & raise this issue? Or are we dealing here only with suppositions & assumptions?
2) Why only Vietnam? The list since 2001 has been a long one & includes Vietnam, UAE, Chile, South Africa, The Philippines, South Korea, Algeria, Greece, Malaysia, Thailand, Egypt, Singapore, Venezuela and Bulgaria. Of all these, how many have so far received product marketing presentations from the Indian OEM? How many of them have said even a word about this to their respective national news agencies?
The only viable exports in the foreseeable future will involve the BrahMos-NG (capable of being launched from submarines & combat aircraft & road-mobile TELs), which is still a few years away from entering service. Venezuela & Greece today are in economic meltdown, while the UAE, Chile, South Africa, The Philippines, South Korea, Thailand, Egypt, Singapore & Bulgaria don't have heavy MRCAs like the Su-30MKI that is capable of accommodating the existing BrahMos-1. Nor do most of them have submarines or heavy warships like destroyers that can house the BrahMos-1. Therefore, unless & until the lighter BrahMos-NG arrives, all talk of possible exports is baloney. Even the interim BrahMos-A has yet to be qualified on the Su-30MKI.
Prasun,
I have been civil and respectful in my postings. However your comments (" I sure hope a similar fate befalls you very soon") confirms that you're a sick and demented asshole! (don't be a coward and delete this post!).
Your twisted interpretations on issues consistently lack rational judgment!!
I've learnt one thing long before - Never argue with an idiot, because people watching cannot tell the difference.
Against my own decision to participate any further in this discussion, I would like to leave you with some education (since you fervently asked for it). Judgments do get passed purely on circumstantial evidence alone, and that too ALL over the world. Your ignorance on legal precedents is quite evident. I could easily quote you numerous cases from all over the world (I do mean that), however to make this pedantic exercise easy on you I'll just name one that I suspect you maybe able to able to relate to (geographically and linguistically - I am making the assumption purely based on your last name).
Do check out the case of Dhananjoy Chatterjee. He was HANGED - purely based on circumstantial evidence.
I do feel that you're not very capable of parsing words carefully; your hot head is too eager to jump to certain conclusions (not sure if it's because that's the first thing that comes to your mind and you're to stubborn to change it or if you have certain other vested interests that guide you to certain conclusions in the first place!). Your love for international arms vendors has been sickeningly obvious for a while!
Nowhere have I stated that circumstantial evidence should suffice to convict anyone (but they routinely do in courts everywhere) nor have I denied the complications that the Indian military would suffer with the banning of Finmeccanica. However, governments act in certain ways (and they have to) - irrespective of your liking it or not. The blacklisting process had started by the previous government itself - no reason to castigate the current RM; not sure why you're barking up the wrong tree!
The arguments are nuanced; I am not sure it will penetrate your thick skull, but I gave a try, did I not?
-OmniCurious
Also, another piece of legal education:
The government doesn't have-to/need-to go to a court and ask the judge to decree the blacklisting process. The court will not even allow such a motion to be heard!! The courts are not in the business of providing clarifications on your contract clauses; they only act if an 'aggrieved' party moves it against an offending party. As such, the Indian government can/should do what it thinks is correct; if any party is unfairly affected by its decision then that party would move the court!
Your whole spiel about no court proving money trail and hence Indian government should just sit on their hands is total BS and smacks of buffoonery! Hopefully there's a 'Judicial process for dummies' book available somewhere for you (I am sure someone written such a book keeping folks like you in mind).
I had already pointed you to the WTO guidelines - hopefully you're reading that too!
-OmniCurious
I had a similar experience, leads me to believe that there are other interests behind this, especially comparing the present Govt with the very disastrous performance of the previous Govt. Indigenous efforts maybe late or may not be comparable to imported tech, but considering the atrocious conditions and tech denial regime that Indian scientists work in, the progress on LCA, HTT-40 and many other items are very commendable.
I will ignore the next round of insults, best.
Pakistan’s Federal Finance Minister Ishaq Dar presented the budget for the upcoming fiscal year 2016-2017 on June 3, 2016, with an outlay of Rs.4.394 trillion--a 7.3% increase over the previous year--and a growth target set at 5.7%. Inflation is down to 2.82%, the lowest in ten years. The target to restrict the fiscal deficit has been fixed at 3.8% of the GDP, which will be further narrowed to 3.5% of the GDP by 2017-2018. Pakistan’s defence budget for FY 2016-2017 has been pegged at Rs.1,780 billion, an increase of Rs.80 billion or 11% since 2015. It accounts for 19% of Pakistan’s total budgetary spending for FY 2016. In addition, another Rs.100 billion has been allocated for OP Zarb-e-Azb, plus another Rs.32 billion for creating the10,000-strong Special Security Division that will provide protection to Chinese citizens who are based inside Pakistan for implementing the various components of the CPEC. While India annually spends US$17,000 per soldier, Pakistan spends only US$8,000.
Money spent so far on counter-terror operations (cost of war to the economy) over the past 14 years is an estimated US$118.32 billion. For OP Zarb-e-Azb and internal security operations the cost incurred in 2015 was US$9.24 billion while in 2014 US$5.57 billion was spent. Over the past two years, US$14.80 billion was spent on OP Zarb-e-Azb and internal security operations. Losses to the economy due to terrorist activities was US$7 billion in FY 2015, including US$2.32 billion worth of tax-collection losses and US$2.40 billion in multilateral trade losses. All in all, losses to the economy due to terrorism was estimated at US$80 billion in 2015.
To OMNICURIOUS: LooooLLLLLLLLzzzzzzzzzzzz! At last you really experienced what it means when hit below-the-belt! How does it feel to be at the receiving end? I would love to PHYSICALLY do the same to you & also give you 2 tight OMNI-DIRECTIONAL slaps as well. Since you’ve chosen to draw first-blood by using abusive & vulgar language, allow me to return the favour to you in equal measure.
The mere fact that you're shy of revealing your own identity & choosing to stay hidden shows who is the sick & demented arsehole. Abey agar tu asli maii ka laal hai aur apne ma ka doodh piya hai, toh aa ja akhaade mein, stand up, identify yourself & be held accountable for your views, stance & beliefs. Or else stand condemned forever as a napunsak/hijra/eunuch. For an OMNICURIOUS entity truly deserves an omni-directional salvo of slaps, that I can guarantee will be delivered to you.
As for my love for international arms vendors, I will always proudly wear it as a badge of honour for so long as it facilitates India’s force modernisation efforts. You, on the other hand, seem to be held-bent on achieving exactly the opposite by your now-evident clamour for unilateral blacklistings. Which in turn shows where exactly your loyalties lie & you consequently are neither a friend nor a wellwisher of India. No wonder you have also brought India’s criminal justice system into infamy by alleging that Indian court rulings are predicated upon circumstantial evidence! Due to all this, I’m now ever more eager to thrust my TRISHUL up your arse.
You should damn well know by now that you can keep running, but you cannot hide for long. Your electronic fingerprints can be traced down to your workstation at the wink of an eye & no matter wherever in the world you're holed up in, you will be found & those 2 tight slaps will be delivered by your's truly. If you don't wanna believe, then just try finding out about the fate that befell the likes of RAW13 & LAHORI.
And the PDF file you shared only deals with compliance with existing international covenants & treaties, & has nothing to do with commercial disputes resolution involving weapons purchases. A far better example would have been how the dispute between Taiwan & France's THALES Group was settled. But obviously that's beyond your comprehension.
To CONCERNED: What tech denial? Which foreign OEM taught the ADA techies how to go about developing MIL-STD-1553B digibus? Which foreign taught the ADA techies how to derive the fly-by-wire flight-controls architecture & develop a digital flight-control computer? Which foreign OEM supplied the all-composite wings for the TDs & PVs to ADA? Which foreign OEM served as technical consultant for the FBW flight-control logic R & D & flight-test-points validation? Which foreign OEMs supplied the AMLCDs, HOTAS controls, flight-control actuators, navigation lights & ejection seats? Which foreign OEM did the auditing of the weight-budgeted design of the LCA? You call all this tech-denial regimes??? What exactly are you smoking? Lastly, don;t you even know that scientists NEVER engineer any end-product, but only make discoveries? Do you even know the difference between a scientist & technocrat?
Meet the Swadheen Bharat Subhash Sena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJiztoA8-q8
Only God knows what next in coming.
hi prasun
I am truly bewildered by out of subject, context, arguments that keep popping up in this blog which is far from the true spirit of this blog, which is defense ,this is my my presumption . This i presume as you are the owner of this blog.As one who is following your blog for more than 5 years, May i humbly suggest that you please delete unnecessary comments, subjects and stick to defense alone?. I feel lost .
As china is holding massive naval exercise in the Indonesian straits , can Indonesia claim that hereafter, that it is a part of the Indonesia as well .If china can claim seas 1000 km from its coast line why cant other do so .
The world has to take the bull by the horns , Acting before they beat a monkey to frighten a chicken. A salvo of 4 brahmos missiles per ship should be installed near the passage undercover and it should be mined ,that would kick sense into them.
To RAD: LoLz! Relax & chill out. What China is doing by making bizarre maritime boundary claims is only antagonising almost the whole world, especially when it comes to adherence to UNCLOS Treaty to which China itself is a signatory. China claims that by being a civilisational state (albeit atheist), its historical interpretation of territorial boundary claims reigns supreme. But this is rejected by almost the entire world, because the concept of civilisational state no longer applies & for the past 300 years, the concept of nation-state has been embraced by almost everyone. What this means that territorial boundaries (of those countries that were previously colonies) that are drawn on maps more than 100 years old cannot have any legal sanctity. Thus, countries like India or Indonesia cannot & should not define themselves as civilisational states, since doing so will reduce tghem to a terrible minority in the comity of nations. Therefore, the best option is to form a 'Global Commons' & call China's bluff by sailing into waters around the reclaimed islets in the South China Sea that are claimed by China to be its territorial waters. This is what the US Navy & the Philippine Navy are now doing & that's exactly why the US, ASEAN & Japan also want the Indian Navy to do so by holding multilateral naval exercises & joint patrols in that area. Only then will China realise that it can no longer defend the indefensible. As for Indonesia's Natuna Besar Island, the Indonesians want to deploy AH-64D Apaches & KAI-built T-50 light MRCAs as of now. But in future, if the BrahMos-NG becomes available, then the TNI-AU's new Su-35s will definitely be armed with such ASCMs.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2016/06/01/newly-found-maps-dispute-beijings-south-china-sea-claims/
Prasun K. Sengupta said...
".......Are you one of those who ardently believes in a pregnant Sita being pronounced guilty of adultery & being banished while being denied the chance to defend herself? If yes, then I sure hope a similar fate befalls you very soon & let us all then see how you start scavenging for your defence against a pile of circumstantial evidence gathered against you! It's always easy to throw stones at others, until you yourself become the target of stone-pelting.....
Therefore, it's not about me or anyone else exonerating Leonardo Finmeccanica or finding it guilty. Instead, it's a matter of principle & also about due process & the supremacy of the law of the land being upheld without fear or favour. This principle applies to every institution, every individual;, every family, every community. society & country & there are scores of international conventions/treaties to this effect & India is a signatory to them as well.
You may have also not yet realised the extent of damage caused to the institution of the IAF by all those pathetic creatures who have levelled all possible kinds of allegations of wrongdoing based purely on suppositions, insinuations & presumptions. It may well be inconsequential to you, but it is something that hurts me the most. And unlike you, I prefer not to bask in the luxury of finding solace in over-simplistic assumptions & legends......."
BRAVADO Prasunda....
And I also completely AGREE to what Mr " rad " had written regarding unnecessary comments, subjects....BUT we can have A LITTLE bit of FUN right, provided it is done with the RIGHT SPIRIT, keeping others FEELINGs in mind, KNOWING our boundaries and RESPECTING other's boundaries.....after all LIFE is nothing without FUN, right guys...:))
USAF is flying 100+ F-35s in IOC config and we constantly have excuses to not fly/induct LCA, forget IOC. Again keep in mind tech sharing or denial, whatever evidence one can present, look at the pathetic state of the industrial/aerospace infra in India and that we are so close to fielding a 4th Gen fighter is itself almost a miracle.
Pentagon's top tester derided the F-35 program and Armed Forces Committee Chairman almost threatened the program.........this is from a country that produced a 5th Gen fighter more than 20 years ago.
But not a single Western analyst dares criticize the program or trashes it...that's the difference between Western and Indian analysts...
I am looking forward to the next round of insults
Hi
How is that 11% increase and 19% of total Budget of pakistan can they have stable economy and sustainable when India struggles with 3% ??
Is the world leaders not asking before giving loan why are they using so much money on Nuclear Tech and defence when they keep asking for more loan??
@Arpit & @SSK,
This is what i wrote:
"Please dude cut the shit. I met a man like you once from Kerala, he claimed they came from Indus civilisation. I said to him he doesn't look much like the Sindhi's. Claims and counter claims NOT based on FACTS."
You two gents seem to be confused by the above paragraph, let me break it down for you::: The first sentence tells you what to do. The next 2 sentences tell you a little story. The LAST sentence tells you what I think. It implies that when one does not talk with facts, one can claim anything, etc...
Now regarding the Sindhi bit. That is the central location of the indus civilization. Am i correct? Just has egypt was the location of egyptian civilisation, iraq was for etc... Unless some aliens came and took the indus people somewhere, it is a LOGICAL assumption to ASSUME that the people LIVING in the same area as the indus civilization are the DESCENDANT of the SAME civilisation not some PEOPLE living 2-3 thousand miles away? (which is the same distance as from egypt to england. Its like someone in england claiming english are from egypt). Hope you get it.
RAT666
@Prasun,
Like your analysis on pak budget. They are doing better than expected. Considering that their undocumented/black economy is twice the size of this.
Do these figures include the 1-2billion uncle SAM gives them for the operations? They also seem to stretch the 8000 per head quite far, looking at the way their soldiers are dressed and equipped compared to ours. Is it because they import less than us? or is it because they have 'other' sources of income.
It amazes me how a nation with this budget has tied us down for so long.
Rad
Prasun,
Your blog is reproduced ( with credits )!
""You two gents seem to be confused by the above paragraph, let me break it down for you::: The first sentence tells you what to do. The next 2 sentences tell you a little story. The LAST sentence tells you what I think. It implies that when one does not talk with facts, one can claim anything, etc..."""
@RAT666 You telling me what to do? And you dont have any responsibilities as citizen of Union? If you dont consider yourself as a citizen of India, how you calling yourself Indian? So, please cut the crap.
Your mentality not going to change overnight.
For converting your green passport to black you need to do lot of hardwork, like Adnan Sami did. He is a smart guy.
"""
Now regarding the Sindhi bit. That is the central location of the indus civilization. Am i correct? Just has egypt was the location of egyptian civilisation, iraq was for etc... Unless some aliens came and took the indus people somewhere, it is a LOGICAL assumption to ASSUME that the people LIVING in the same area as the indus civilization are the DESCENDANT of the SAME civilisation not some PEOPLE living 2-3 thousand miles away? (which is the same distance as from egypt to england. Its like someone in england claiming english are from egypt). Hope you get it.""""
So where are Parsis living? It seems like I discovered new fact, Parsis created Maratha Empire. LoL.
How Constantinople become Istanbul?
Dont be moron, by assuming anything.
As PKS say, assumption is mother of all fuck ups. Thats why Pakistani including you totally forgotten there heritage.
And now call Takshila as Taxila. Lol.
""""You accomplished something important, SURVIVED. Now do something for TOMORROW. Even if you BUILD some TOILETS it will HELP. """"
And dont think all other are sitting idiots here. We know what you trying to say. And what you actually meant with this sentence.
So, keep you niceness toward India in your pocket. And eat your Nihari in some restaurant in Lahore.
Hi
http://idrw.org/work-to-begin-on-china-backed-karachi-n-plant/
How is Pakistan paying for this as it takes 1Bn to construct it ??
To RAD & VISHAKH: How is Pakistan managing all this? Through 'figure-fudging'. It is all explained here in great detail from the beginning till 16.04:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSvJqrxT1aY
And here's another thought-provoking analysis of Pakistan's neighbourhood foreign policy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFM0rKfLJa4
To CONCERNED: There's a huge difference between F-35 JSF in IOC configuration & the Tejas Mk.1's IOC configuration: the former is flying with all its standard fitments, whereas the latter isn't because its MMR & internal ASPJ suite could not even be delivered on time for fitment on the LSP- & SP-series aircraft. How therefore can any end-user accept an end-product that doesn't contain what's been specified in the contract?
To RAT666: You may have noticed that during all ceremonial flypasts, at least four combat aircraft of each type participate, flying in Finger-Four formation. And all these aircraft are reqd to be in operational service. The same cannot be said of the Tejas Mk.1. How many of its SP-series have been delivered so far to the IAF? Therefore, unless & until the IAF can form its first squadron with the minimum four SP-series Tejas Mk.1s, an RDP flypast that includes the Tejas Mk.1 won't take place. It is all about procedure, & not any flimsy excuse.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/As-Afghanistans-ties-with-Pakistan-sour-India-steps-in-nicely-to-fill-breach/articleshow/52590784.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/PM-Modi-awarded-Afghanistans-top-civilian-honour/articleshow/52588305.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/How-India-is-helping-rebuild-Afghanistan/articleshow/52587058.cms
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/narendra-modi-afghanistan-salma-dam-inauguration-ashraf-ghani-2834106/
http://idrw.org/tr-3b-black-astra-ufo-top-secret-aircraft-usaf/
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pulgaon-ammunition-depot-blast-cad-fire-army-cag-2833534/
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/for-years-leaking-anti-tank-mines-sat-in-pulgaon-then-they-blew-up-sources-1415306
http://www.news18.com/news/india/outdated-ammo-pulgaon-fire-hit-armys-battle-readiness-1251527.html
http://www.cag.gov.in/sites/default/files/audit_report_files/Union_Performance_Defense_Service_Army_Ammunition_Management_19_2015.pdf
A stockpile of anti-tank land mines worth Rs.36 crore manufactured with the expertise of the High Explosive Factory in Khadki and the Ordnance Factory in Chandrapur, has been rendered unusable and is waiting in Army depots to be repaired or replaced, according to the CAG. This has affected capabilities of the Army against armoured vehicles, main battle tanks in particular. The anti-tank mine meant to destroy armoured vehicles and MBTs is an important part of the arsenal of any army. One mine, the 1A ND204, was designed and developed by the DRDO’s Pune-based Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) and High Energy Materials Research Laboratory, Pune (HEMRL) for the Indian Army. Similar mines had been manufactured for the Army by the Ordnance Factory at Chanda in Chandrapur district of Vidarbha for over 10 years. The High Explosive Factory at Khadki supplies Tri-nitro Toluene (TNT), the explosive material used in the mine. All anti-tank mines manufactured by these factories are inspected by Inspectorates of Director General of Quality Assurance in New Delhi before they are issued to the Army. From 2008 to 2011, Ordnance Factory Chanda manufactured and issued 2,71,794 mines to Army depots, after inspection by inspectorates. During inspection between May and July 2010, TNT exudation (leakage) was reported. This defect was found in 54 lots comprising 1,07,244 mines valued at Rs 36 Crore. A committee set up in June 2011 to investigate reasons for TNT leakage had representatives from the Army, Ordnance Factory Board, inspectorates, ARDE and HEMRL. In a report, the office of the Controller of Quality Assurance (Ammunition) in Khadki said that the leakage was because of low melting point of TNT fillings and that the leakage had taken place at high temperatures. The ARDE in its report attributed the leakage to improper sealing of joints of the landmines. The CAG observed that in May 2014 even after more than three years, modalities for repair of defective mines were not formulated. The leaking mines were collected from the depots and the sealant was supplied by Ordnance Factory Chanda. They turned brownish after exposure to the environment. Another sealant issued to HEMRL by Ordnance Factory Chanda was found to be satisfactory. There is no schedule for getting the mines repaired. Manufacture of defective mines by High Explosive Factory and Ordnance Factory Chanda, coupled with failure to seal joints properly led to idling of mines valued at Rs.35.97 Crore at Army depots without repair or replacement, adversely affecting anti-tank operations of the Indian Army. The matter was referred to the MoD in June 2014.
To DEVOPRIYO: LoLz!!! It seems Joydeep Ghosh is getting more enterprising & deriving 'inspirational dope' from this blog. Good for him. Nothing wrong with that.
Excellent panel discussion held yesterday regarding the decision-making power-centres inside Pakistan’s corridors of power:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6eba2m3rMM
Excellent analysis of Iran-India Relations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9CV5w2vSQg
Salma Dam Commissioning Ceremony:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yl9QvDf_aE
And Pakistan’s religious clergy unable to agree on sighting of the moon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik8dbl7RLwA
Hi
HAL is looking for Regional Jet Partner. Lets assume AN 158 becomes preferred choice then why do we need C 295 ?? Will using this platform won't do good as larger number would reduce cost as well.
We can use this platform for Coast guard REconnaise aircraft and future base platform for current navy small reconnainse aircraft all being propeller based??
Can this regional aircraft can also be used for tactical airlift and drop beyond enemy lines in case of need ??
@ omincurious
Just reading some of your comments and seeing you kinda of a hypocrite. As in any debate there are 2 side. Prasun and u have given your arguments! He has accepted and conceded that he can't change your position and why on earth are you trying to do the same
and honestly - your arguments are also ARE NOT rational and REALLY absurd!
+ i can see this a more a target response to the blogger and not anyone else , I too have replied to your comments BUT u haven't responded to that!
U came to this blog to justify what you actually feeling abt the so Called Agusta Scam , BUT didn't get what u wanted and Hence the Hatred!!!
Have fun playing the Herd!
ISRO's plan unveiled for slashing satellite launch cost:
http://thewire.in/2016/05/23/not-just-the-rlv-td-isro-has-more-plans-for-slashing-launch-costs-37943/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-buy-aircraft-for-conducting-weather-forecast-experiments/articleshow/52600703.cms
Some news PRasun Da, Why not leave the people to their fate, since its best for you not waste time on fools ... they take u to their level and beat you.
@ Omicurious
There is a HUGE Difference between a Civil Justice and Arbitration ie contracts disputed! where your point "Judgments do get passed purely on circumstantial evidence alone" is BS when it comes to Contracts disputed - where in the world would allow this??
This the case of the Agusta ! yes they had proof of the accused of wrong doing within their own system ie financial fraud and wrong invoicing BUT Absolutely NO PROOF of any so called brides paid to any Indian !!... 4th year running has the CBI , ED found anything???
The Point im making the the Govt + RM is making India A laughing stock + its bad for business and Blacklisting a Defence industry of a Country - (Yes Italy - im sure any company from italy who tries to do business will be blushed with the same stroke), drastically affect our defence , which The Govt is not really concern, as they will use this scam as ammunition against the opposition , for the next elections
and finally they are crucifying an Ex IAF Chief and Mud slinging an Institution ie the IAF
HAVE Concrete PROOF "no Invisible Hand" and THEN!!! Parrot it to the World!!!
Dear Prasun,
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-06/04/c_135412356.htm
In the ongoing Syrian War, the net winner is Kurds. Already Iraqi Kurds have their own Autonomous Kurdish region, now Syrian Kurds started to set their own Autonomous Kurdish region (YPG Rajova) bordering Turkey.
Total loser is Turkey. Now they start realizing the issue and don’t know what to do. Russian military intervention has changed the Syrian war dramatically.
Once Autonomous Syrian region is set, next step will be setting up of Autonomous Kurdish region in Turkey. Finally integration of Turkey, Iraqi & Syrian Kurdish region which eventually end up in Kurdistan.
But this is not going to happen easily. Turkey will fight till end. More bloods are going to spill in coming years.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Dear Prasun Sir
As far as Banning Finmeccanica is concerned and its effects on our Armed Forces
are concerned ; we Must remember that in Government and in politics ; LOTS of things are
SAID for Making News
A lot of things HAPPEN behind CLOSED doors
The MOST important thing is Trust -- We can trust this Government
Manohar Parrikar has already said that we will not allow our armed forces
preparedness to suffer
As long as the Bribery issue was in the News ; some statements had to be made
for the purpose of having an EFFECT
If there is NO follow up action -- There is NOTHING to be afraid of
I can Trust Modi and Parrikar -- I DID Not trust Antony and Man mohan Singh
We have seen HUNDREDS of statements on Cancelleation of Rafale ; FGFA and Other deals
Such statements should Never be taken at their face value
All I KNOW is that in the Defence Ministry a LOT of things Happen Quietly and secretly
Dear Prasun,
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/After-Chabahar-India-eyeing-Payra-port-in-Bangladesh/articleshow/52574330.cms?from=mdr
After Chabahar Port India start working in Payra Port in Bangladesh. Good Move by India to Counter Sting of Pearls.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Dear Prasun,
http://www.dawn.com/news/1262101/military-march
Well written article about Current Pakistani's Civilian-Military Relationship.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Prasunda,
Can you please give a comparative analysis in between Black Shark Torpedo with SeaHake Mod4 Torpedo in terms of 1.Performance 2.Technology used 3.Room available for further development 4.Sustainability of supply chain and product support ecosytem in long run ?
It would be better if you discuss the respective sonar and combat management system.
Thanks, regards
To UJJWAL: The Black Shark Advanced (BSA), a new-generation multi-role heavyweight torpedo fired from submarines or surface ships, is designed to counter threats from all surface and underwater platforms. The Black Shark is intended to replace the ageing A-184 heavyweight torpedo used by the Italian Navy. The Black Shark is currently being produced by Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei (WASS) for several major naval forces and has been integrated into Scorpene, U-209, U-214 and U-212 submarines. The wire-guided, self-homing torpedo has 21-inch diameter and integrates an ASTRA (Advanced Sonar Transmitting and Receiving Architecture) and high-explosive warhead. The propulsion system with Al-AgO battery, contra-rotating brushless motor and skewed propellers ensures a maximum speed of 50 Knots and range of 50km.
The F-21 heavyweight torpedo from DCNS is a dual-purpose torpedo that is effective against submarines and surface vessels. It will replace F-17 Mod 2 torpedo aboard the French Navy's submarine fleet. The 1.3-tonne F-21 can be integrated into all types of submarines, including nuclear-powered SSBNs and SSNs as well as diesel-electric types, and can be launched in swim-out or push-out modes. It incorporates a new-generation acoustic head from Thales Underwater System, in addition to an impact/acoustic fuse warhead. The F-21 can be operated in depth ranging from 10 metres to 500 metres and is driven by electric propulsion based on the silver oxide-aluminium (AgO-Al) primary battery providing a speed of 25 Knots to 50 Knots, range of over 50km and endurance of one hour.
The DM2A4 Seehecht (Export Name: SeaHake Mod 4) is the main underwater weapon of the German Navy's Type 212 submarines. The heavyweight torpedo, weighing 1.37 tonnes, can be launched from both submarines and surface ships. Developed by Atlas Elektronik, the SeaHake Mod 4 torpedo employs fibre-optic wire guidance to accurately engage underwater and above-water targets, and carries a 255kg warhead. The torpedo is equipped with a high-frequency permanent magnet motor and silver zinc battery modules ensuring a maximum speed of 50 Knots and a range of over 50km (27nm).
Torpedoes may one day be propelled by a magnetohydrodynamic drive (MHD) . The fundamental concept behind MHD is that magnetic fields can induce currents in a moving conductive fluid, which in turn creates forces on the fluid and also changes the magnetic field itself. Using membranes, an electric current is passed through seawater in the presence of an intense magnetic field. The seawater (as plasma or ions) would interact with the magnetic field of the current through the water. Compared with the position of the motor, the seawater is then the moving, conductive part of the engine pushing water out the back and accelerating the vehicle. The significant advantage is that there are no mechanical moving parts although it has to e accepted that at this point in time only some ‘working prototypes’ exist. Its stealth capabilities are known but the penalty is low speeds and critics point to the huge electro-magnetic field created that would make the drive easily detectable. To date only the Mitsubishi Group of Japan in the 1990s have built a MHD powered ship, the Yamato 1, a small craft capable of 8 Knots.
@OmniCurious Seems like you are a interesting person that living on Mars or maybe Neptune. As you are king of neptune you can make any CrPC.
Have you registered any FIR? BTW, in which CrPC you thinking to to lodge this FIR? Under CrPC 41? LMAO. Or you planing to file a defamation case?
FYI, http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/delhi-court-dismisses-complaint-against-kejriwal-for-allegedly-using-defamatory-and-seditious-words-against-pm-modi-2827401/
You have no idea, what you talking about.
BTW, if oto melara cancel all product support, can I held you accountable that all warships are without naval gun.
Can I file a case against you for such betrayal toward nation and negligence? And can I declare you as traitor?
BTW, please post the copy of FIR here, I am actually interested that in which IPC this case is registered. LOL.
Hint for you ask the Police to register this case under Section 503 of IPC. And then check the reaction of policemen. LMAO.
I am amazed a person after making this reply making threats of uniformed guys. Even shrugging off who is these uniformed guys? Police?
""""However your comments (" I sure hope a similar fate befalls you very soon") confirms that you're a sick and demented asshole! (don't be a coward and delete this post!)."""
@OmniCurious Boy did I need to teach you what is Section 66 of IT Act. Seriously?
PKS Sir, I dont know how you handle these guys, but these guys are just awesome. Just awesome. They are not just living on Mars or Neptune. They are on Pluto. And as Pluto is 7.5 billion kilometers away from Earth. They dont know a shit about Planet earth.
@OmniCurious
I am curious are you LLB? From which college you took your degree.
Obviously I also can file a case against you. They contact Google in Hyderabad. Police track your IP address. And then you will be gone, atleast for 2 years.
And I seriously know how Information Tech. branches of CIDs actually work. So keep up your threats. You are already a laughing stock.
@OminCurious
Are u reading what u are posting !! Yes the Italian Govt Arrested the Wrong Doers . THEY DIDN'T Suspend the company !!! they didn't suspend any contracts !!! They didn't Blacklist the company!!!!!
Think abt it !!!... you suspend/blacklist the company with absolutely no proof wrt The indian Govt at that time or the IAF (and the IAF Chief) , just speculation and conjuncture!!! and say it is the right think to do? without thinking of the consequences??? WHO is the world would do this!!! Have an investigation 'No problem' at the end of this - then decide - what r the penalties and execute them in terms of fines or jail terms for the accused.
Have u worked in any company? what u r suggesting is shut down a entire company that deals in billions and services the world ,just because a sales guy stole some amount?
And who will scream corruption!?? the previous Govt is not in power, u have proved my point, this present Govt will scream CORRUPTION, just to win votes against the opposition for the coming elections!!!
Everyone coming to this Blog will agree THAT if A CONCRETE LINK or PROOF is presented, we will shake your hand. BUT till that time !!! PLS STOP and think abt our defence !!!!
HAVE Concrete PROOF "no Invisible Hand" and THEN!!! Parrot it to the World!!!
BTW, I dont know deleting idiotic posts are also Criminal offence?
Maybe @OmniCurious also find in some CrPC against this too which he written in Planet Pluto. LoL.
@OmniCurious
Example of double standards!
There was a case of corruption, bribery and allegation regarding Gen VK Singh, TATRA and BEML, yes u remember?
What happened to this (Honestly I would like to know) ? Only the Head of BEML was suspended and recently passed away.
DID we stopped buying Tatra Trucks? did production stops? did Tatra and BEML get Blacklisted???
Just because finmeccanica is an italian company!! and opposition is italian origin (INDIAN is the correct term) THERE has to be corruption and blacklisting !!! ammunition for this presest Govt (another Bofors!)
To ARPIT KANODIA: LoLz! What we are now witnessing is the reaction from a creature who has gotten a taste of his/her own medicine. Such imbeciles are ardent believers of 'Do as I say' & not 'Do as I do'. If he/she were to file an FIR against me, then he/she would first have to surface & reveal his/her real identity. Now, if he/she can't muster the balls/guts to reveal the identity here in this blog in response to a direct challenge from me, then does anyone else reckon that he/she will have the balls/guts to reveal his/her own identity to any law-enforcement agency of the country??? It is therefore logical that such imbeciles are neither friends nor wellwishers of either India or any Indian & are instead feeling the extreme pain from the below-the-belt punches that are being delivered by you, G & me. And rest assured that these imbeciles will never surface out in the open for fear of being at the receiving end of knock-out punches. So let's all have a good laugh & revel at the thought of such imbeciles now engaged in licking their deep wounds.
To VIJAY: Allow me to explain what's all been happening 'behind closed doors'. The following CAG report was presented last year:
http://www.cag.gov.in/sites/default/files/audit_report_files/Union_Performance_Defense_Service_Army_Ammunition_Management_19_2015.pdf
Since then, what steps have been taken by the MoD or the RM at its helm to rectify the deficiencies? I'm sure any IIT graduate will immediately realise the extreme dangers posed by 'leaking' ammo stocks & ammo stockpiles whose shelf-lives have expired. Why then were no steps taken to isolate such stockpiles in wintertime itself last year & remove them to a remote or underground location in lieu of safely diffusing them? Why were they all kept in CADs where ammo stockpiles with valid shelf-lives are stored? After all, the CADs have had a history of such accidental & catastrophic explosions taking place since the 1980s. Why then did the RM not show or display the same alacrity & unquestioned reliance on this CAG report (as opposed to his total reliance on the CAG report regarding the AW-101 deal) & order the safe disposal of such defective & expired-life ammo stockpiles? Will opposition parties now be justified in waving this CAG report in Parliament & charging the RM with criminal negligence in the discharge of his duties? Or will the RM feign ignorance in his defence by stating that as per the Rules of Business Regulations book of the Govt of India, only the Defence Secretary & not him is responsible for the defence of India? In other words, as per the law of the land, the RM is neither responsible for, not accountable for ensuring the defence of India. Will there be any buyers for such an excuse, because that's the only excuse that he can now offer?
Hi
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/DRDO-a-glimpse-ebook.pdf
Please have a look at this and can you provide information about systems mentioned which you have not previously taken
@prasun da
i had to give your blog due credit for the article otherwise it would have been termed as a crap, to ensure its not so credit was needed
btw you always say that the responsibility of defense of the country rest with def sec/bureaucrats & not the def min, i am afraid this will never change, as if the politicos are made responsible they will be crucified by public for wrong decisions. as so they have created a fail safe where eventhough the decision is theirs (politician/def min) the orders go out under sign of def sec. and as def sec/bureaucrats alike (except sitanshu kar who stayed 10+ yrs) change in few yrs even they cant be questioned much after some yrs abt a matter that happened when they were in a falana thikana position.
problem is, (AFAIK) in India the men in uniform are never given place or heard in high table when final negotiations are done to stop hostilities. if they were heard Muzaffarabad would have been in India (1948 Nehru didnt allow Kariappa), Haji Pir would have been with India (Shashtri didnt hear chaudhari), Skardu would have been in India (in 1971 budhist officer who captured Kargil wanted 12 hours to capture Skardu but wasnt allowed, if he had been, neither Siachen 1984 or Kargil 1999 would have happened), Vajpayee didnt consider Malik request for reverse Kargil in 1999. instead the politicos let the sweat/blood of men in uniform literally go waste for the sake of political upmanship. on the other hand since the orders are issued by def sec/bureaucrats it is they call the shots in power corridors of north/south block
btw a small info varunastra is a ship launched HWT its sub launched version is supposedly called Takshak
Thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
To JOYDEEP GHOSH: VMT & that's why I had stated that you did nothing wrong. In all previous cases in 1948 & 1965 India's politicians & diplomats had developed diplomatic fatigue. In 1971 the then GOC XV Corps Lt Gen Sartaj Singh had drawn up detailed campaign plans for capturing Skardu within 5 days of hostilities breaking out. It is all detailed in the book by AVM Arjun Subramanium. But in the end, only Turtuk was captured. It also needs to be admitted that no plans for offensive land campaigns deep inside hostile territory were sanctioned by IA HQ in 1971. Therefore, all war directives called for only a holding operation characterised by a few attrition battles & very shallow thrusts on the western front. Nothing decisive came of them. Subsequent research by me has revealed that the reason why no war directives on offensive campaigns were issued by IA HQ was that the USSR had at that time insisted on it as a pre-condition for extending the UNSC veto in India's favour once hostilities broke out. And that was because the USSR itself had planned a full-scale military campaign against Xinjiang IN CASE China attacked India along Aksin Chin & eastern Ladakh.
In late 1999 after the IC-814 hijack, Gen V P Malik on his own asking had only 1 meeting with the then PM A B Vajpayee, who at that time did even think of seeking the military's inputs concerning the hijack crisis. Gen Malik in his capacity of the Chairman of COSC had then proposed that India retaliate by going across the LoC at least 1 mile deep into the Anzabari Bulge area & holding on to it until Islamabad relented by convincing the Pakistani hijackers to release IC-184 & not make any demands. But, for unexplained reasons, A B Vajpayee, Brajesh Mishra, L K Advani & Jaswant Singh mysteriously developed cold-feet at a time when they were required to show sagacity.
Regarding HWTs, R & D on the submarine-launched Takshak wire-guided version has been terminated in favour of the Shakti thermal HWT. Only the Varunastra autonomous HWT has been cleared for series-production.
To VISHAKH: Had received from the DRDO a printed copy of that book just before the DEFEXPO 2016 expo, & that version contains far more details on new R & D efforts.
I appreciate your response highlighting couple of technical parameters on LCA, of course we all know that the real reason is something else. Because I could highlight 10+ parameters that F-35 is missing pre-IOC (keep in mind it has not even achieved IOC). Just to reiterate USAF has been flying F-35 practically from day one inspite of objections from the Pentagon's test office and many other testing/defence establishments.
I will not debate you anymore on LCA, because I know that you already understand my point. Whether by force or by nuances, IAF will eventually embrace India' homegrown aviation industry, best.
To CONCERNED: With due respect, are you brain-dead??? Or are you trying to mimmick the antics of an imbecile who brands himself-herself as being OmniCurious???
The IAF fully & wholeheartedly embraced India's homegrown aviation industry way back from the 1950s itself when it inducted into service in large numbers the HAL-built & HAL-developed HT-2 piston-engined trainer, the HJT-16 Kiran basic jet trainer, the HF-24 Marut combat aircraft & the HPT-32 piston-engined ab initio trainer, followed by the HAL-developed & HAL-built Dhruv ALH 2 decades ago. Just because you weren't born earlier to witness all this does not mean that the IAF has not yet embraced India's homegrown aviation industry.
To GESSLER: LoLz! That's perfectly understandable, since their country is now facing hostility from all 3 corners, & even China is now going to enforce a brutal crackdown in Xinjiang during the month of Ramadan. But what is now giving them endless headaches is about the forthcoming meeting of the NSG in which India's membership application will be considered. They've now pinned all their hopes on China's veto, but if China stands isolated on this issue, it will amount to a terrible loss of face for Beijing. And what is Pakistan harping about? Its stance is all based on these 2 reports:
http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/thethreesoverlappingtreamsofindiasnuclearpowerprograms.pdf
http://stimson.org/sites/default/files/file-attachments/NormalNuclearPakistan.pdf
As opposed to this, listen to what more learned folks have to say about India's NSG application & China's possible responses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpWd6IC9MXw
@ Omni-Ignoramus AKA Concerned
Please take a deep breath and then look at yourself in the mirror. After re-establishing your ZERO self-worth, kindly buzz off and remove yourself from the gene pool. Regards.
@ Prasun
Don't you think OFB produces way too much defective ammunition? I mean you could probably compare Norinco's failure rate and it would be far less than OFB's. As a DPSU, there's no competition and hence no incentive to improve QC or innovate.
Also both Black Shark and F-21 torpedoes had to rope in Atlas Electronik, so isn't that ironic!
To GOPU: A very good question indeed. Behind every phenomenon there's an explainable cause. But such causes are unfortunately not reflected upon or highlighted in the CAG reports, which is the main reason why I've already seen such reports as being only 50% complete & not presenting the total big picture. When it comes to OFB, there's no doubt that its industrial facilities are state-of-the-art, the very best that money can buy. Therefore, it can only mean that QA/QC deficiencies are all due to human factors. Now, what exactly are these factors? In essence, they all revolve around the need to maintain constant skills proficiency. And this in turn can be achieved & maintained only if the bulk orders for ammunition supplies are constant & are not placed on an ad hoc basis. In other words, ammunition orders must either be placed to cater for a minimum of 3 years of reqd supplies, with work proceeding for a 3-year period until the next batch of bulk orders are placed. Unfortunately, this hasn't always happened. Mainly due to reasons of financial constraints, especially in the 2009-2014 period, orders with OFB were placed on an annual basis, & that too the quantum varying from year to year & sometimes no orders at all. It is this that compromises on human resource skills consistency. If the production scheduling is corrected to ensure sustainable QA/QC-levels, then the problem will disappear.
US SECDEF at 2016 Shangri-La Dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPJ6gMF6KaE
Rahul Roy-Chaudhury at 2016 Shangri La Dialogue 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpkPtihuqXo
RM Manohar Parrikar at 2016 Shangri La Dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhZrAyBGNZY
China's Ambassador to the UK Liu Xiaoming on South China Sea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyvZ1yVoHFI
hi prasun
Please do a scoop on the desi torpedo program . how have we overcome the battery , wire guidance , homing head etc.Is it a knock of o= the 184 torpedo?. How good is it . If we induct them then we should have a total solution from the sonar of the platform to the BMS and the wire guidance to the torpedo. Is that ready ?.
Dear Prasun,
http://www.dawn.com/news/1262913/indias-membership-of-nuclear-suppliers-group-not-merited-says-nyt
http://www.dawn.com/news/1263080/us-report-acknowledges-pakistans-counter-wmd-measures
Plan to derail India's bid to NSG. Something is cooking. May be US is back tracking.
Please comment.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Dear Prasun,
Thanks for your comments. This is the way world Politics works.
No ethics no Rule of Law. Message is clear "Fit yourself for your Survival"
Those who understand the under current & behind the scenes and
make the correct move will succeed. Empty Rhetoric will never.
Let us wait & watch what is going to happen?
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
To S. SENTHIL KUMAR: LoLz! Not something, but many things are cooking. The US can't backtrack at all since the application has already been submitted with the concurrence of the US, Russia, France, UK etc etc. But what is now becoming more & more clear by the day now is that Dr Henry Kissinger's threat to Pakistan in the mid-1970s (i.e. "we will make a horrible example out of you") is at last coming true. The rules of the game in this world have never been set as per ethics or morality, but on hard-nosed & cold-hearted REALPOLITIK. Hence, the question of whether or not India merits being admitted into the NSG never arises.
Dear Prasun,
https://www.rt.com/news/345515-turkey-erdogan-genocide-germany/
Turkey doesn’t know what to do. One side Russia is squeezing. Another side Europe with untrusted friend US.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Antrix-Devas-deal-ED-slaps-Rs-1200-crore-Fema-violation-notice/articleshow/52620611.cms
Guys DON'T miss this video , HUMILITY at it's BEST...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFdnCPUFVkM
Mer aankhon me aasu aa gaye.....Mera Bharat MAHAN.
PrasunDa,
1. Will you please shed some light on the SHAKTI thermal HWT, as to whether it is a match to modern western submatine fired torpedoes?
2. In reply to a poster you stated that you had received a booklet from DRDO that contains details on new R & D efforts. Can you please explain some of these new R&D efforts especially those related to the Navy?
3. Western analysts are suggesting that France won the Australian submarine deal because the Shortfin Barracuda uses a pump-jet propulsor as opposed to the traditional propulsor of the German submarines. Will pump-jet propulsor be a better option for the Indian Navy as well?
Also, you were [as usual] correct about the sale of Brahmos to Vietnam. Just spoke with a guy from Vietnam & he said that Vietnam Govt has made no such announcement.
Regards,
VIKRAM
To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) Everything you need to know about LWT & HWT R & D activities of DRDO can be found in this CAG report:
http://saiindia.gov.in/sites/default/files/audit_report_files/Union_Compliance_Defence_Air_force_Navy_4_2014_Chapter_6.pdf
Page 153 of this CAG report gives all relevant data on the R & D failure of Takshak wire-guided HWT.
Page 155 contains all data on the Varunastra autonomous HWT developed for the Project 15A & Project 15B DDGs.
Page 158 contains all data on the Shakti thermal HWT.
Then there's this: http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/oct2000/underwater.htm
2) These most revolve around new-generation software-defined comms systems/networks, SATCOMS, & new-generation seabed arrays for SOSUS-type networks.
3) Pump-Jet Propulsor & MHD-based drives are the way of the future. That is undeniable.
4) Vietnam is waiting only for the arrival of the lighter BrahMos-NG. Same goes for Indonesia. I am in contact with the armaments procurement directorates of both these countries.
To G: DRDO doesn't BUILD anything. Anything to do with build quality is the responsibility of the builder, i.e. HAL. The DRDO promised much more than it could deliver & that too without the reqd pool of skilled technocrats. Each & every component within the LCA had already been developed somewhere else & did not require any new ground-breaking discoveries by scientists. Instead, it was always all about product engineering for which international patents were always available for inspection. What was reqd next was just re-engineering. But to do this requires highly skilled human resources of the type never before possessed by the DRDO. Best example of this was the admission by the former ADA Director during an Aero India 2013 symposium that he never even knew to factor in parameters like the LCA's direct operating cost & the maintenance man-hours per flying hour! That entire presentation containing this admission is available on YouTube.
France had made the offer for 40 Rafales off-the-shelf way back in 2006. And all those Indian civilian decision-makers of that time who thought they were blessed with all-knowing wisdom then trashed this offer & instead were more inclined to spend money on the Mirage 2000 upgrade 4 years later! Today, the ball is back to square one, only this time the reqmt is for 36, & not 40.
Many thanks PrasunDa.
1.So will it be possible for Indian Navy to ask DCNS to incorporate Pump-Jet Propulsor & MHD-based drives in the Scropene submarines that are still to be constructed by Mazagon Docks?
BTW- Just learnt that Russia has offered Kilo Class Project 636 "Warszawianka" submarines under Project 75I
2. How many Brahmos and Barak 8 can be carried by the Kolkata class destroyers?
Thanks again.
To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) No, not for the first 6. The IN had submitted its proposal for two additional Scorpene SSKs with DCNS-supplied battery-based AIP modules & this proposal is now with the Union MoF. But pumpjet propulsors are not for them as well. In all probability, the projected SSNs will be the first submarines of the IN to incorporate them. The Ruskies have already done a lot of R & D & some mature technology demonstrations on such propulsors.
Project 75I is a dead-horse & no wonder the Ruskies are offering the noisier, double-hulled Type 636 instead of the single-hulled new-generation Amur 1650.
2) 16 BrahMos-1 & 64 Barak-8s. At the air-defence seminar last month the IAI official confirmed to me that the Barak-2 term had been dropped & now the SAM is known only as Barak-8 family, comprising the naval LR-SAM/air force MR-SAM & air force-specific LR-SAM.
@ Prasun
There is another Joker posing as me ! and Pls I WOULDn'T ask such a hideous Question such as what he/she has asked
To G: LoLz! Relax & enjoy the fun. The environment seems to be getting target-rich. And therefore I've decided to raise the bar. No more just two tight-slaps on the cheeks of severely depressed & schizophrenic nitwits like OmniCurious, but straightforward de-particalisation of such entities to be undertaken with extreme prejudice, since it will be an insult to humanity to allow the gene pools of such creatures with extremely low sense of self-esteem to proliferate unhindered. ARPIT KANODIA was earlier a wee bit generous (LoLz!) by condemning such nitwits to Neptune, but the same cannot be said of me, for I regard such creatures as a liability for the entire cosmos! Hence, preparatory steps regarding de-particalisation set in motion as of yesterday morning.
Excellent analysis of Pakistan's economic future (watch from 10.34):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOLeEBMBPRs
PLAN Admiral Sun Jianguo, Deputy Chief, Joint Staff Dept, CMC at the 2016 Shangri La Dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4XHIi3ogds
Meanwhile, some Pakistani TV channels are trying to out-do one another to publicise the Khalistani cause:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzHUXrf_PbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnNWuI51BH4
g said...
There is one BIG reason ...... still hasn't cleared FOC.
G said...
@ Prasun
There is another Joker posing as me ! and Pls ......HaHaHa...
and,
Prasun K. Sengupta said...
To G: LoLz! Relax & enjoy the fun.....
@ G, I mean CAPITAL "g" NOT small "g"
Sorry G , I couldn't help myself laughing.....Earlier, there was a CONFUSION that who was the ORIGINAL "RAT" and Now who is the REAL "g"... BUT don't worry "G" we all KNOW that's NOT the REAL "g", Why?? Simple becoz Language and Presentation DON'T Match.... REAL "g" I mean G Presents like this-
"G said...
Wrt to the so called Tanker scam that Times now and India Today has so called revealed...
The Deepak class of tanker isnt the only one in the fleet (2 in her class) . There are still 2 other replenishment ship . My Q is What steel are they using?
@Birbal ... whats is fascination with Balls and Guts?"
I think the REAL "g", i mean G has GOOD presentation and has "GUTS"....:)
By the way what does Capital G stands for...the CUTE Giardia or the SMELLY Gardenella or something else.......:))
Hi Prasun,
What's up with the Khalistan movement? Why is this in news all of a sudden?
Best Regards
Raj
Prasun sir,
Ahmed qureshi and Moeed Pirzada are both known pakistani establishment's mouthpieces.
What better can we expect from them, you remember last year pirzada was areested in UAE but sometimes later mysteriously got released.
I like Belaag program's anchor Ejaz Haider. He many times comes up with programs on International politics diplomacy with distinguish panel.
and thanks for link of India Today's program on NSG diplomacy, that was very informative without those political nutjobs.
regards
Understood Prasun, will do ! :)
Just saw the @Q show on Pakistan TV, the Sikh Gentleman has some honest points to make , but he is still pretty much one sided and looks he gave in to his host by - saying that Indian Govt is the cause behind all the massacre/encounters and human rights violation. and POK is a paradise and PAK Govt is the saviours and all good guys!!
The Gentleman seriously has forgotten abt UN resolution 47 and what happened in all the pass WARS?? and that the PAK is no better in Human rights?? Human right quote "The Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on basic freedoms"
Also points
- Sikh Gentlemen wearing a PAK FLAG pin is not suspicious(Sarcasm)
- The Host Still using the word Muhajir and Azad at the same time!!
- Small portion of the interview has being repeated for effect!
Heard reports that HAL LUH is going to make its maiden flight soon.
And as per the CAG audit, the Shakti "thermal" HWT simply means it is powered by Otto II fuel (which is just another example of DRDO trying to re-engineer a product that has been proven a generation ago (and thus DRDO will always be one step behind the pack by following this approach). Battery fuel-cell HWTs are better since they don't suffer performance drops with depth.) Do you know which foreign firm was roped in by NTSL to develop these HWTs?
Do you think MoD will allow private companies to fill ammunition production deficiencies by OFB? I mean if army requirements are made clear and MoD has sufficiently funded OFB for 3 year periods, then any slippages in ramping up capacity would point to structural inefficiency and failure of OFB to properly collate their market requirements and synchronize this with their internal assets/factories. There's only so many excuses you can give when a private company can ballpark these market figures and still deliver value. For example, some of the feeder factories could be outsourced.
Prasun da,
http://idrw.org/raha-visit-sweden-checkout-saab-facilities-india-looking-select-gripen-e/ .
CAS Arup Raha visit to SAAB facility in Sweden. Is IAF looking for Gripen E for LCA MK2.
Hi Prasunda,
Currently IAF chief is visiting Sweden and SAAB. Do you see any possibility of Gripen-E/NG deal with india.
Many thanks.
Dear Prasun,
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/06/turkey-germany-armenian-genocide-resolution.html
Why German Parliament suddenly took Armenian Genocide and passed it?. To my understanding Turkey demanded Visa free Europe travel for Turks in Exchange of Refugee deal. No European country is interested giving Visa free travel for Turks except Angela Merkel. May be they want to spoil the party so that they took Genocide drama in Hand.
1) What is your opinion in this matter?
2) What will happen if UK leaves the European Union which is already dead union?
Please Comment.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
To SR & SIDDHARTH: If the Gripen E is to be seriously considered by India then under the new rules of the game, that aircraft's existing AESA-MMR & IRST suit will have to be replaced, since they're supplied by subsidiaries of Leonardo Finmeccanica. Is that possible to achieve over the next 3 or 5 years? Most unlikely. Therefore, no one should be under any illusion about the Gripen E's future marketing prospects in India.
To GOPU: The LUH could have made its maiden flight at least 12 months ago if HAL's management were allowed to take decisions (instead of a Joint Secretary in the MoD interfering in such matters) on crucial component imports related to actuation systems & gearbox components. In any case, better late than never. As for HWT, the DRDO had sought some consultancy expertise from a torpedo R & D facility in Kyrgyzstan since the previous decade. Regarding the private-sector entering the ammo production arena, this has always been opposed by the MoD's bureaucrats & the OFB, with the excuse being given that the private-sector cannot be trusted to ensure protection of all the high-explosive chemicals & materials stockpiles inside the production facilities! So much so that all existing private companies making fuzes of various types still have to send these semi-assembled fuzes to ECIL etc etc where the explosive & electronic triggering contents are inserted & final assembly is done. Sounds ridiculous, but it's all true. Recently, the OFB put forth this very same excuse at am ASSOCHAM-organised seminar when certain private companies like Bharat Forge/Kalyani Group asked why it could not manufacture 155mm rounds of various types in partnership with a foreign strategic partner. And taking the cue from such excuses, firms like BEL are now saying that private firms cannot be entrusted to ensure the security of proprietary operating software of GPS receivers for IRNSS satellite constellations, for EW suites, & for comms systems. Thus, excuses galore, but no closure in sight on such thorny issues, which in fact be resolved through the mere application of common sense.
To RAJ: Why? Elementary. All this coincides with the anniversary of OP Bluestar. Pakistan is now enacting a policy of asserting its moral equivalence with India in various fields. So, if India accuses Pakistan of waging proxy wars through terrorists, Pakistan retaliates by staging the abduction of Kulbhushan Jadhav & projecting him as evidence of India's interference inside Pakistan. Similarly, while Pakistan is being accused even by its own citizens of using overwhelming military force against its own citizenry in areas like FATA, it retorts by projecting India in a similar light. While Pakistani economists & strategic analysts are now projecting India in a far better light vis-a-vis Pakistan, the PA in an attempt to brush these aside projects India as being beset with several internal insurrections. The projection of the Khalistani cause through Pakistan's 'desi' mass-media must therefore be seen in this light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONSH7WrlJxs
Sir,
Seems like intelligence of people like Moeed Pirzada and Najam Sethi hit to bottom. Previously I was great fan of them, now it seems like all these jurnos are bought by ISI.
These guys now saying that India planing a great game, which I think is correct. But then saying that India dont want peace in Afghanistan, thats laughable. And that is part of great game.
A proud day for India and Indians the world over for sure :
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/touring-indias-foreign-policy-objectives
On another note it appears that Finmeccanica has been taken over by the Italian mafia. Look at the gall and temerity of a company whose CEO is convicted of out and out fraud and bribery, talking back as if it owns the world. Finmeccanica is a small fly, an insignificant one at that among global defence OEMs. India is no longer the Banana republic it was under Sonia Gandhi's stooge, Mr. Singh ! It would then be appropriate for India to show Finmeccanica the door or perhaps put them where they belong - in the trash bin.
To SETHZ: It is no longer Finmeccanica, but Leonardo Finmeccanica, & its new CEO is a highly decorated former Italian Cop. The convictions for fraud & bribery involved corrupt Italian citizens as per the verdict of the Italian Appellate Court. What has all this to do with India is indeed most mysterious till this day, since no human being in this world has so far produced conclusive material evidence of Leonardo Finmeccanica having indulged in fraud/bribery either inside India or in collusion with any Indian citizen. More than 2 years of investigations on such matters by multiple Indian law enforcement agencies have so far drawn a complete blank. This isn't 1987, but 2016 & any digital financial trail can be accurately traced back within a matter of hours, especially after Switzerland, Mauritius, Italy & the UK have already sent their written responses to the Letters Rogatory issued by the CBI. So where's the hold-up now? Why isn't a chargesheet already been filed? How long does it take to file a chargesheet? 2 years? 6 years?
If India is really serious about teaching wrongdoers the lesson of their lives, then her civilian decision-makers should have prevented the IAF CAS from even casting a glance towards the JAS-39 Gripen E, whose principal sensors are all from Leonardo Finmeccanica's SELEX ES subsidiary.
To ARPIT KANODIA: LoLz! Here’s how these Pakistani caricatures are helping implicate Pakistan:
This Sethi fella has claimed that the statement from Indian NIA’s Sharad Kumar fully vindicates Pakistan’s stand. In reality, Sharad Kumar’s remarks to Network 18 (formerly CNN-IBN) on the Pathankot terror-strike investigations has put Pakistan into an inescapable bind & without any backdoor escape route. Because Sharad Kymar implied that 1) as the investigations are on-going, only the interrogation of the JeM suspects inside Pakistan will bring the case to its logical conclusion, i.e. Pakistan must allow the NIA team to visit Pakistan & conduct the questionings & only this will prove whether or not the JeM enjoyed official state-level support. 2) If non-state actors (as always claimed by Pakistan) can indeed thrive inside Pakistan’s settled areas like Bahawalpur or areas bordering India’s Punjab state, then by implication Pakistan’s security & law-enforcement agencies are totally incapable of ensuring the writ of law inside Pakistan. If this is the excuse that Pakistan is pleading/offering, then all post-9/11 UNSC resolutions automatically authorise affected countries like India to undertake hot-pursuit military operations under the umbrella of humanitarian intervention. Thus, if Sethu & Co continue to misrepresent Sharad Kumar’s remarks, then both he & Pakistan are staring at a bottomless abyss.
Now start watching from 5.12 what Imtiaz Gul has to say after visiting Bahawalpur:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwBuhuoHZEk
Next, this Sethi fella claims that the Pakistani NSA had forewarned his Indian counterpart about 10 more JeM terrorists infiltrating India (from Gujarat through the un-fenced, infamous rivulet called Haraami Nullah, & not Rajasthan as Sethi claims) to strike at some religious shrines. But what he fails to take into account is that his colleague in GEO TV, Hamid Mir, had earlier claimed that according to the Pakistani NSA, these 10 terrorists were in fact Indian double-agents who were to carry out the terror attacks & blame them on Pakistan. Thus, this Sethi fella is claiming credit for one thing, while this Hamid Mir is peddling another conspiracy theory. No one can explain why is Pakistan unable to prevent the free movement of non-state actors within its soil—a POV no one in the world is willing to buy. The day therefore is not far when such caricatures will claim that both Masood Azhar & Hafeez Mohd Saeed are both agents of R & AW!!!
And now, by denying consular access to Kulbhushan Jadhav, everyone is now doubting the claims made by Pakistan about how & where it apprehended Jadhav. Because once consular access is granted, the truth will come out not only about how & where he was captured, but also about his missing Dhow (vessel) & the fate of his Dhow’s fellow crewmembers.
Cont’d below…
Sethi next claims that it is India that’s shirking away from talks. Reality is that Pakistan wants negotiations, not talks or dialogues. But India & the rest of the world are of the view that such negotiations cannot commence unless & until Pakistan verifiably dismantles all its terrorist training camps & sends all their leaders to prison, period. And that’s because after the disasters witnessed in Afghanistan since the 1980s, no one wants Pakistan to claim that it won a second Jihadi/Islamic victory in the Indian subcontinent in the same way that led to the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1988. In other words, religiosity-inspired military campaigns or paramilitary insurrections can never be allowed to succeed in the post-9/11 era. Thus, India & all like-minded countries will never entertain any pleas from Pakistan for negotiations aimed at conflict resolution.
He then states that India is losing out by not inking a trade agreement with Pakistan. In reality, India accorded Pakistan MFN status ages ago, while Pakistan shies from even using the term ‘Most Favoured Nation’, & insists on using the term ’Non-Discriminatory Trade Access’. In other words, it does not consider India a friendly neighbour. Why then should India overlook or disregard such hostility & agree to Pakistan’s use of such terminology?
His claim of India not being in favour of peace returning to Afghanistan just so that the CPEC becomes unsuccessful is total hogwash & an insult to everyone’s intelligence. Firstly, CPEC’s success depends entirely on the Khunjerab Pass being open throughout the year, which is both a physical & geological impossibility. Secondly, no one forced Afghan President Ashraf Ghani by the scruf of his neck to lend his signature to the trilateral Chah Bahar FTIZ venture. Third, when Afghanistan can be denied even humanitarian aid like Indian high-protein biscuits to be sent via transit through Pakistani territory, which Afghan leader worth his/her salt will ever trust any Pakistani offer to open up landlocked Afghanistan’s trade access to the sea through Gwadar? Sethi’s web of conspiracy about Russia, India & Iran teaming up to downgrade the CPEC therefore deserves to be trashed into the dustbin forever.
Cont’d below…
And how exactly can India complete her encirclement of Pakistan? By what means? Militarily or geo-economically? Is Sethi now claiming that both Iran & Afghanistan are India’s client-states? Why is he denigrading these 2 brotherly Islamic states?
Lastly, Sethi seems highly amused by the warm hugs exchanged between NaMo & Ghani in Herat & mocks it by saying that the impression given was that Ghani is an even older friend of India than Hamid Karzai. Such remarks can only come from ill-informed fellas or fellas who easily forget history. For, it needs to be remembered that when the united Afghan delegation went to Germany for peace talks aimed at forming the new govt after OP Enduring Freedom, Ghani as the only technocrat was part of this delegation when Karzai was still a political nobody, & when it came to forming the 1st govt of national unity in Kabul—as proposed by India & accepted by all—it was Ghani who was entrusted with that govt’s treasury & so when he asked the Indian delegation who would finance the running of this govt over the short-term before the arrival of multilateral donors, it was India that saved the day for Ghani & the 1st govt by donating US$3 million within 24 hours for the formation of this 1st govt of post-9/11 Afghanistan. So Ghani certainly is a very old friend of India.
Therefore, knowing very well how several Pakistanis revel in distorting history according to their whims & fancies, Sethi’s interpretation of events should hardly surprise anyone. Personally, he’s also pissed off with India because the BCCU refuses to arrange a test cricket-/one-day international-series with the PCB. So, add all this up & what you get is Sethi’s prevailing mindset & his utterances.
Lastly, watch this very interesting interview of Afghanistan’s new Ambassador to Pakistan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64gbku2X3pE
To S. SENTHIL KUMAR: You may find these very interesting:
How will Ankara and Washington heal their rift? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E-MQ4TrL6E
Islam & Democracy: What's the Problem? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsTFv0-MZOc
Prasun K. Sengupta said...
To SETHZ: ............the JAS-39 Gripen E, whose principal sensors are all from Leonardo Finmeccanica's SELEX ES subsidiary.
Does it mean Prasunda FORGET the Skyward G IRST from SELEX ES, for the LCA(Navy) Mk2??
Prasunda what's the main OBJECTIVE behind IAF Chief Arup Raha's visit to Sweden and SAAB facility??
Whats ur take on India being a member of MTCR now. Can this really change anything?
PrasunDa,
1. Now that India will become a MTCR member can India import submarine fired Klub missiles from Russia that have a range of 1500 kms?
2. The torpedo R & D facility in Kyrgystan that you referred to, why is DRDO reaching out to so many consultancy groups/defense primes across the world?
3. Another prediction of your's have come true, ANI reported yesterday that China has labelled Pakistan as the country responsible for 26/11.
Thank You
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36476322
How much one will BET that some reporter/journalist will try to link a scam to the above report on the raids in South Korea to the IN Navy Future Minesweepers vessels!.. oh wait that Tender was cancelled , nut it would have been fun to see !
Sir, it appears India has cleared all hurdles to gain MTCR membership. Can you briefly explain what this means for India? Has any equation changed with regard to Pakistan/China and our suppliers like Russia?
Thanks in advance,
Sarath Kumar R.
Seems like lot of defence analyst are also reading this blog.
http://gentleseas.blogspot.in/2016/06/chinas-seaweb-undersea-surveillance.html
decent link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C86JA_nTHG8
Some nice videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyDQzTcBIlw
Prasun Da,
Today during the annual press meet BEL Chairman/MD said :
(1) BEL is designing coastal surveillance radar. However wasn't the contract for coastal surveillance radar given to Terma of Denmark & so coastal surveillance radars are already in place? So, why is BEL designing similar radars ?
(2) BEL is designing Integrated Sonar Suite. Again, Indian warships already have imported Integrated Sonar Suites. What's the need for BEL to design these?
http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/bel-says-new-defence-systems-on-radar-english-news-1.1116752
Thanks,
VIKRAM
TO VIKRAM GUHA: LoLz! 1) BEL isn't designing any such radar. It is actually a coastal multi-mode air/surface search radar that is being developed by the LRDE & it was shown at DEFEXPO 2016 in scale-model form. The TERMA-supplied dual-band (S/X) radars are only for coastal surface search. 2) By integrated sonar suite, he means the integration into the warship's CMS the hull-mounted panoramic sonar (HUMSA-NG), the active/passive towed-array sonar (ACTAS from ATLAS Elektronik) & the sonar transducer used for the Maareech expendable torpedo decoy system. In olther words, inputs from 3 different types of sonar systems will be integrated & displayed in the CMS consoles dedicated to ASW.
Even if the CMD of BEL would have detailed all this, I can bet that none of the 'desi' news-reporters would have understood what all this means (LoLz!).
To VIKRAM GUHA: In any case, far more revolutionary developments have just been unveilled at the ongoing EUROSATORY 2016 expo in Paris. Here are 2 of them:
After years of introducing cutting edge technologies that have revolutionized helmet mounted systems (HMS), Elbit Systems announces its latest development in the field: IronVision – an advanced HMS for commanders and drivers of closed-hatched armored fighting vehicles, including all types of main battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. IronVision is based on the proven sensors and system architecture that is already integrated in thousands of fixed and rotary-wing aircraft HMS being used by most modern air forces worldwide. The new HMS incorporates advanced See-Through Armor (STA) technology that lets wearers ‘see through’ the armor of their vehicle in order to obtain full, real time situational awareness through which they can locate, identify and track enemy forces or capabilities. This is a vital advantage when it comes to carrying out missions that include joint forces and sustained high-intensity operations. IronVision’s 360-degree, high-resolution imagery is projected in full color and zero latency to the wearer's visor, offering a clear and vivid display of the surroundings in both day and night and in all types of weather. Through its user-friendly interface, IronVision leverages the digital infrastructure of the vehicle by seamlessly integrating STA technology with existing C4I and warning systems, which creates a powerful cognitive simplifier for commanders, enabling them to make complex situation-dependent decisions within split seconds, and also leads to more freedom and fewer distractions for the driver. The highly sophisticated helmet and support system collects information from different digital sources within and around the vehicle. IronVision displays and tracks the positions of various features of interest, ranging from a single person standing or crawling several meters near the vehicle to a moving vehicle located 150–300 meters away. By using the helmet, the wearer obtains complete freedom of movement and is able to shorten the sensor-to-shooter cycle, all while remaining fully protected under closed hatches.
Meeting a full range of ISTAR requirements, Elbit Systems’ SupervisIR is highly effective at detecting, tracking, and displaying visual motion imagery of moving air, ground and sea targets, making it ideally suited for border patrol, perimeter security, surveillance and counter-surveillance operations. Through the use of cutting-edge digital imaging and processing technologies, SupervisIR provides high resolution wide-area (90-degree horizontal and 12.5-degree vertical) infrared surveillance, which is equivalent to approximately 150 thermal imagers placed side by side. The system also includes advanced automatic detection and extracting imagery feeds of targets in multiple regions of Interest. Visual investigation can be done in real time, or using a video on demand control, which can be used for backtracking the target to any point and time. These unprecedented system capabilities can be further augmented by the use of additional sensors, such as monitoring radars, and an advanced investigating sensor, the LVCR, which is a multispectral long-range observation and target acquisition system to provide a synergetic capability that completes the full targeting process from detection and recognition. This process is executed by SupervisIR, through engagement of the LVCR, which is slewed accordingly. SupervisIR is suitable for medium to short-range ISTAR operations. It can be mounted in fixed positions (on a mast or tower), or rapidly deployed in ad-hoc environments. Through its superb field of view, the system is applicable to almost all operational scenarios requiring continuous ISTAR capability, enabling operators to effectively and autonomously encounter ground, maritime and low flying aerial objects within a large variety of landscapes.
The system from ELBIT is a no brainer really . Visibility for the driver in any armoured vehicle is terrible .Infact drivers are trained to drive with directions from the tank commander only . It is not even very hard to make . I remember a swedish team had implemented something exactly like this using an occulus rift a few go pros and API meant for computer games .
To PRAV: Watch this interesting documentary on how cyber warfare is waged from outer space:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Q3L9OQ7S8
This is what Prasunda was talking about...
http://defense-update.com/20160608_ironvision.html
A SALUTE to Israeli determination, hard work, intelligence, smartness...definitely One of the Best in Business..
Dear Prasun,
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-article-by-t-p-sreenivasan-on-nsg-membership-for-india-quest-for-another-holy-grail/article8706216.ece?homepage=true
NSG is invented against India's 1974 Atomic bomb and to prevent it. Author is questioning India's entry to NSG is asking Russia to joining NATO.
Looks like NSG bidding is going to Fail.
What is your opinion. India will be included or denied or postponed now.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Is it true that exports will get beefed up post MTCR even to non member countries. Can this materially help in increasing exports of Akash and even Prithvi. Also is MoD again favoring Javelin over spike.
Dear Prasun,
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2016/06/09/It-is-a-war-against-Sunni-Arabs.html
All Sunni Arab states start suspecting US role in Syria. Above author clearly says that next Middle East Map will be redrawn soon and first work is forming Kurdish Nation with Iran Blessings. With Kurds in Hand, Israel & US can cut Turkey & Syria into pieces.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Dear Prasun,
http://atimes.com/2016/06/chinas-silk-road-may-not-be-that-silky-after-all/
China's Silk Road may face dead end.
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Hi
China is investing 8.5 Billion Dollars in Pakistan ? Is this currect and what are the implication on India?
Dear Prasun,
Zakir Naik tells that Hanuman is just a myth not reality. That's why he often tells that Islam is superior and Muslims are post graduates and other religion followers are graduates. Bcoz islam is practical, not based on mythology. Your view please.
Also the no. of comments have already exceeded 550. And a new blog is yet to come ��������
PrasunDa,
You travel to Russia, so you will know better than most of us,but based on this recent interview with Rostec Chief it seems Russia is very interested in selling weapons to Pakistan.
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2996060
Russia is probably thinking if India can diversify & purchase weapons from US, why can't Russia sell to Pakistan.
Thank You
VIKRAM
Dear Prasun
If China continues to oppose India joining NSG even at the risk of being isolated with rest of the members supporting India, shouldn't India retaliate in some measure? Wouldn't restrictions on Chinese companies doing business in India be a good step?
@Soubhagya
shiva is false ,hanuman is false, vedas is false, dharma is false, Hinduism is false
karma is false
recently to my regret this thread has become too indulgent in abusing shiva and albit in a subtle intellectual manner
but I don't care neither does shiva lol
point being every man and women is the sole and final judge of himself/herself and still they err so forget about judging shiva and his concepts
anyways that quake Zakir Naik says islam is practical
well it is so practical that a so called messenger of god cannot control his dying libido and marries a 13 year old that too a close relative, so that a old man can satisfy his fading earthly needs. and set a precedence for all practical purposes .
also god obliviously forget to mention to him the side effects of inbreeding.
if shiva hanuman is false what legitimacy does this so called messenger have
who cant even control his dying libido
maybe prasun khan sengupta will know the correct answer or will he be biased in a intellectual way
Something REALLY " Big " is coming from Prasun K Sengupta, I can Sense it.....
Be Prepared to EMBRACE the Unknown, the Unseen..... Expect Something Really EXCITING from him in the next Few days...
It's the LULL before the Storm..
Hi All,
Why do we always end up discussing Pakistan (its a failed state created by failed mindset) we should focus more on how we should develop in order to encounter much larger threats(I know being informed about your enemy is quite necessary but why topics that are not needed). I honestly believe we should start looking up towards taking the nation to a league of developed and self sufficient nations than discuss about failed states as Prasun has once said "it is a wish of Allah that Pakistan should seize to exist" (it will happen eventually). Prasun is already cultivating a strategic thought lets try to spread it among our friends the more clear vision people we have the better for the nation.
P.S. Between Senthil I still don't agree with you on theory of evolution
Hi Prasun
Exactly i concur with rakesh, all we have to do is to tell china openly that you cannot have the cake and eat it too by doing business in india and getting a billions in balance of payment and then screw india .Screw the WTO, as we can say they are enemies and we dont have to stick to rules with enemies. THe congress wimps and the communist arse lickers have no guts to do any thing. Its time to kick arse and assert ourselves , cut trade and weaponize all of china`s neighbors as they did to us . They are not 7 ft tall as you said before and know they cannot take in the free world. They pretty well know the indian soldier as they went to china and put down the boxer rebellion by the British.
here more details on 8.5Bn that that china will invest,
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-to-invest-8-5-billion-to-upgrade-pakistans-rail-network-build-gas-pipeline-report-1417247
@birbal,
be careful what you read on israeli products. most of those actually failed and the cost is prohibitive even when small set of projectiles are sent your way. They are very good at marketing. in a war like situation, these dont work at all. so why waste money on this. we need to provide our boys with better kit first. more lca's, more artillary, etc...
Rat2
The 8.5Bn seems to be part of the rail upgrade. If you look at the pic in the ndtv report....they have hanged a chinese flag next to their own. Lots of loans if you ask me...then again the worl is living on debt these days.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/adb-oks-1st-financing-chinas-aiib-pakistan-road-39746813
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-to-invest-8-5-billion-to-upgrade-pakistans-rail-network-build-gas-pipeline-report-1417247
RAT666
Was not Pakistan666 highly intelligent in 1947/48, when they forcefully captured POK, G&B and Baluchistan. Were they aware well in advance that one day China as a friend will rise so much and G&B, POK and Baluchistan will be highly needed. Please clarity as to who guided them, whether the devil, West, alla, Jinna or China.
PrasunDa,
This is interesting. Indin Express came out with an article, stating that according to recently released CIA documents Rajiv Gandhi regarded Pak as ‘strategic buffer’ against USSR
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/rajiv-gandhi-regarded-pak-as-strategic-buffer-against-ussr-report/
As ever thank you.
@Rajesh,
G&B and PoK are one and the same. They never felt part of the valley and considered the kashmiri's in the valley to be indian stooges and not very brave. They actually revolted and joined pakistan in 47-48. Remember lots of these were in the British India Army, so were militarised and number of very senior PA officiers came from these regions and continue to do so even today. Baluchistan was split in 3 parts, the north including Quetta was inhabited by the Pastun and they wanted to join Pakistan. The coastal region (Makran) was part of Oman and finally the central lands. The central lands joined, all Jinnah had to do was drive to various leaders and almost all signed straight away. Remember more Baluch lived in punjab and sindhu then Baluchistan itself, so he had plenty of leverage. Jinnah then told Oman they wanted the coastal Makran region too. Oman sold that to Pakistan for penny's, including gawadar. There you have it. How long they will stay together is another matter, with Modiji's and Obama latest moves :-)
Hi
Is Pinaka Mk2 (60KM) under testing or production and how many units are supposed to be purchased??
A well written article:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nuclear-missiles-pakistan-india/1/687727.html
G
To G: LoLz! Only a buffooin who hasn't even bothered to do some homework about last April's exercises in Rajasthen (EX Shatrujeet & EX Chakravyuh-2) can afford to come up with such an outrageous concoction! Towards the end of last April itself there was a seminar on dispersed manoeuvre warfare operations under a nuclear overhang in which all theories put forth by this buffoon in his magazine were systematically demolished by senior IA HQ officials, especially from the ARTRAC.
To VISHAKH: Leave along Pinaka-2, even Pinaka-1 is not in series-production. Why? Have already answered that in this very thread itself. Do browse through the earlier comments.
To VIKRAM GUHA: In any feudal society will such honour-killings take place. Nothing surprising about that. It also happens in Bangladesh & India. But what was far more outrageous 2 days ago was a Maulvi (also a Senator) threatening to thrash a woman social activist in a live TV programme. It has since caused a national uproar. If you want to watch it, then you may do so at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVyewx5x2PU
The fight lasts from 13.54 till 17.59.
Meanwhile, in an unprecedented phenomenon, Pakistanis are wailing, whining & cursing with no end-in-sight over the past 3 days about India’s on-going aggressive global diplomacy over multiple dimensions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxRWmuUSovw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrxzbVCQPRc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efe5a4_yhzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aUKtTQYLg
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4fg4ql_spot-light-9th-june-2016_auto
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4fn4mq_hum-daikhain-gay-10th-june-2016-pak-america-taluqat-nazuk-mor-par_tv
While India is going full steam ahead with all cylinders blazing by using the offices of the President, PM & Vice President on a global scale, Pakistan on the other hand is feeling the pinch of muddling through as a national security state. Thanks to the consequent securitisation of all its policies in every sphere, and also due to an incapacitated PM recovering from open-heart surgery in the UK, there's total dysfunctionality in Pakistan. While the PA's COAS is openly making policy statements, the Federal Interior Minister has begun writing letters to the Iranian Ambassador to Pakistan! In other words, the Pakistani Foreign Foreign Office has been rendered redundant.
Watch each & every one of the above-weblinked panel discussions to get an excellent insight of Pakistan's enduring dilemmas, all caused by its longstanding policies of denials. Enjoy your respective weekends!
To VIKRAM GUHA: Watch this tribute to Syed Saleem Shahzad, the journalist who had exposed the linkages between the LeT, JeM, Ilyas Kashmiri & Maj Haroon Ashik, who had masterminded the 26/11 terror attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBFi30o6li4
yes Birbal and I sense this will be a very BIG ejaculation (same as found in Arthur C Doyle's Sherlock Holmes books)
@Prasun ... Could you do at least short writeup on this IA seminar that was held in april ?Or is there a place where we can read the transcript ? Thanks.
These two videos clearly prove - less is more. Israel is smaller than any state of India and yet just look at the planning, training, coordination, execution and innovation. I am sure silent diplomacy also played a part because how else could they traverse international airspace of a number of countries and not face any resistance. The last video says Russia allegedly sold codes for the weapons they sold the Syrians which is probably because Syria went for North Korea as an ally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWA2pthTBiM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GfdH9AzAXE
My question is - is it China that prevents the US from doing the same to North Korea as it is quite clear they stand as the single most rogue nation proliferating N-technology. I am sure if not the US then Israel would take minutes to completely neutralise Kim and Co were it not for a big power shielding this action.
Today Hafiz Saeed says that US has moved ahead of India in its enmity with Pakistan. If he survives then tomorrow he may say that Russia and China have moved ahead of US in their enmity with Pakistan. The life, time and destiny of Pakistan are such that during their impending end times even the alla will leave them forever.
What happens when Pakistan has produced new breed of Defence Minister :
http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/pakistan-ready-to-attack-india-with-nuke-powered-drones-jud-chief-hafiz-saeed_1892113.html
lol
Prasun ji: https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-uae-sign-significant-outer-space-aeronautics-cooperation-agreement
Hi Prasun,
Would appreciate your comments on this analysis of CPEC
http://idrw.org/china-pakistan-economic-corridor-chinese-nightmare/
Best Regards
Raj
@Pierre Zorin, I don't hink N Korea poses any danger to Israel. Why should Israel be interested in destroying Kim?
Hi Prasun,
Your thoughts on this
http://www.business-standard.com/article/international/clashes-resume-across-torkham-border-between-pakistan-afghan-forces-116061401267_1.html
Dear Sir
I am French ; came here by chance
Everything else here is just banter
The main question is WHAT ABOUT RAFALE ?
Prasun Da,
I suspect you are busy with Eurosatory 2016 etc but just wanted to get your insight on this news published by Defense News today.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/asia-pacific/2016/06/14/india--italy-germany-weapons/85861394/
They are saying(apart from many things) India plans to:
1. Purchase SeaHake torpedoes from Germany
2. Purchase diesel subs & acquire tech for designing nuclear subs from Germany
Any truth in these reports?
Thank You
VIKRAM
Hey Sarah, WELCOME to the Blog... Namaste, How do you say Welcome in French?
To VIKRAM GUHA: That's right, have been in Paris since June 11 & NOT A SINGLE Indian OEM is exhibiting here! That itself shows how serious these so-called Indian OEMs are about exploring export markets!!!
Do not absorb all the bullshit being splurged out by these 'desi' journalists. All they do is try to link one event with another & derive speculatory perceptions. For instance, how exactly can Germany's OEM help India design or develop nuclear-powered submarines when Germany has to date not produced even a single nuclear submarine??? Furthermore, given the state of the economy due to which even procurement decisions finalised 3 years ago are finbding it extremely difficult to fund due to scarcity of financial resources, how will any sane individual even dream about acquiring additional SSKs when clearly the immediate threat perceptions call for procuring SSNs? Therefore, better not to waste time reading such 'bandaalbaazi' news-reports.
Meanwhile, do enjoy these videoclips from EUROSATORY 2016:
Leclerc XLR MBT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AplgxGEtzY
VCBI 8 x 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49GzOCVxdvE
Centauro-2 tank destroyer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9BNOioM0Qc
K-9 Vajra tracked SPH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pdshRMEs8U
Spear 120mm mortar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZiHde9kzEc
New CAESAR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lARf1Ioyx10
To BIRBAL: LoLz! There's no French counterpart of 'Namaste' since no European welcomes or offers salutations with folded hands or clasped palms. The standard greeting term is 'Allo', meaning Hello. Symbolism in Europe isn't held in high esteem, unlike in South or East Asia.
HELLO Prasunda.. Very Good Morning.
ALLO Sarah...:)
SPEAR 120mm Mortar was 'COOL'... But this one is 'SEXY'
the auto loading 120mm mortar system from Ruag:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLT6zjGuOA8
Hello Prasun,
Interestingly enough, I just discovered that one of the companies I perform consultancy services for falls under the Finnmeccanica conglomerate. Nothing related to India, though.
Also, check this out.
http://amti.csis.org/indias-undersea-wall-eastern-indian-ocean/
Some nice Arcticle http://swarajyamag.com/world/china-pak-economic-corridor-why-gwadar-is-an-overrated-port
Hi
1) Is the F18 and F16 compatible with 2052 Radar of Israel ??
2) IS C17 deal option available as Boeing has closed factory ? Can its assembly shifted to India ( Numbers are too low) ?
Dear Prasun,
Please see the link. Your article is referred.
http://idrw.org/india-want-undersea-wall-detect-chinese-submarines/#more-98388
Thanks
S.Senthil Kumar
Someone here must be an intersex person because "Sarah" is not a female and certainly not French. Very unlike a French woman to visit and read a defence blog such as this and even more unlikely SIR is used - which is a very British Indian legacy. So hey - who cares better be an intersex behind the computer screen than go through a lot of financial expense. Unless someone convinces the Saudis to change their mindset and use the "chop chop" square for another purpose ;)
Hi Prasun,
You repeat (maybe rightly) that the IN will eventually choose the F21 after the Black Shark concellation. So what to think about the recent papers stating that the SeaHake was favoured?
Maybe the F21 is not satisfaying (not commissionned in France yet)...
But if it really is the German torp, don't you think such a choice might be legally problematic since the SeaHake had been rejected from the previous tender process?
Best,
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