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Friday, January 13, 2017

Second CM-2000 Scorpene SSK Of Indian Navy's Project 75 Launched

Four other SSKs will follow in the wake of Khanderi, at intervals of nine months. However, none of them will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems of either indigenous or imported origin. This despite the DRDO’s Ambarnath-based Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL), along with the Kochi-based Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL) initiating R & D on an AIP module way back in 2002. It may be recalled that the Govt of India’s Cabinet Committee on National Security has approved the procurement of six CM-2000 Scorpene SSKs in September 2005 at a total cost of Rs 18,798 crore (US$4.2 billion) and the contract was signed in October that year. The project cost was subsequently revised to Rs 23,562 crore in February 2010, along with a revision in delivery schedules. In 2010, it was envisaged that an indigenously-developed AIP module would be fitted on to the latter three of the six CM-2000s. However, a series of delayed decision-making processes thereafter caused all six CM-2000s to be bereft of the AIP modules. 
While the DRDO was insisting that it will be able to deliver on-time a proven AIP solution as demanded by the Indian Navy, the MoD was unsuccessful in drafting a long-term industrial roadmap for new-generation SSK procurements by using the CM-2000 procurement effort as the foundation. By 2012 itself, when it was crystal-clear that the NMRL-developed AIP module was nowhere in sight for the latter three CM-2000s, the MoD should have approved the procurement of an additional three CM-2000s with the proviso that they be equipped with the NMRL-developed AIP module—especially when DCNS at that time was more than willing to invest US$100 million in the R & D programme in partnership with both the NMRL and Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL). Had such an option been approved, then even the first six CM-2000s could have been be retrofitted with such AIP modules during their subsequent mid-life refits. 
Without snorting, a diesel-electric SSK can only expect to stay continuously submerged for a maximum of about 100 hours if cruising continuously at 4 Knots. The SSK must snorkel on a regular basis to preserve the charge in its main battery. The ratio of time spent snorkelling to not snorkelling is referred to as the INDISCRETION RATIO and will normally be kept as low as possible. Indiscretion ratios vary from 30% during transits to 5% for a SSK in an operational area. By and large, snorkelling is the Achilles Heel of the SSK, exposing it to counter-detection. Firstly, snorkelling requires a periscope/optronics mast, an ESM mast and a snorkel induction mast to be raised, all of which expose the SSK to enemy visual sensors and radar. It is possible for an enemy to detect masts and their plumes and wakes visually, particularly during the day. Visual counter-detection opportunities increase with the number of masts exposed, the speed of the SSK and the calmness of the sea. Designers try to minimise mast visual profiles by minimising mast sizes, using camouflage to blend masts into the background environment and streamlining masts to reduce plumes and wakes. Operators try to minimise plumes and wakes by minimising snorkelling speeds; a simple rule-of-thumb being Knots = sea state + one. Radar counter-detection is also a function of the number of masts exposed and the speed of the SSK, although good radar performance is not limited to daylight. Techniques used to minimise visual counter-detection generally work equally well in also minimising radar counter-detection. Additionally, radar absorbent material and shape optimisation are used. ESM masts and systems are employed to determine the presence of dangerous radar signals and masts are lowered when rackets approach dangerous levels. “Gulping” can be used to reduce visual/radar counter-detection opportunities, particularly in scenarios where there is a heavy airborne ASW presence, but a pressing need to snorkel. “Gulping” involves raising the snorkelling mast just above the surface of the water. Wave action results in the mast washing over from time to time—which causes discomfort to the crew as vacuums are pulled inside the SSK and then released on an alternating basis. Despite all the methods employed by submariners to minimise counter-detection while snorkelling, modern optronic systems and periscope detection radars, particularly airborne, still present challenges to submariners. Another significant snorkelling counter-detection source stems from running diesels and associated equipment noises. Snorkelling can increase a SSK’s acoustics radiate noise source-level between 20 and 30 decibels. Assuming propagation losses of six decibels per doubling of range, and all other things being equal, the acoustic counter-detection ranges of a snorkelling SSK can increase eight- to 16- fold!  Of course, SSK Commanding Officers will take advantage of any increases in ambient noise such as that caused by evening or fish choruses and heavy rain. They will also top up the battery packs with short snorkellings whenever tactically possible. Nonetheless, snorkelling presents significant challenges to SSK commanders. AIP-equipped SSKs don’t have the same Achilles Heel as diesel-electric SSKs. Whilst conventional AIP systems don’t assist SSKs in transits or in high-speed runs, they do allow them to operate at low-speed for up to three weeks (or 504 hours) without the need to snorkel. 
For most land-based applications, a fuel cell uses oxygen from the air as the oxidant since this saves the weight and volume of having to carry an oxygen source. However, for SSK applications, oxygen must be carried. A disadvantage of a fuel cell-based AIP system that uses a reformate gas as opposed to pure hydrogen is that the reforming system will have a higher oxygen demand. This is because, in addition to operating the fuel cell, oxygen is also required to reform the liquid fuel into hydrogen, either for partial oxidation reforming or to burn a small proportion of the fuel or off-gas to provide the heat for steam reformation. This extra oxygen requirement must be factored into any calculations. A further complication of reforming systems is that carbon dioxide is also produced as a byproduct of the reaction and this needs to be stored or disposed of safely and discretely. Carbon dioxide has a high solubility in water and, if necessary, can be discharged without producing bubbles by pre-dissolving the gas. Liquid fuels, such as methanol and diesel, have the advantages that they are readily available, may be stored in tanks and have a high-energy density. Often, these advantages outweigh the complications introduced by a reformer. Carbon monoxide is a potential byproduct of the reformation process. This is a reversible poison for the platinum catalyst used in PEM fuel cells (of the type developed by Siemens of Germany) and therefore purification of the gas is required before it is fed to the fuel cell.
The DRDO’s Ambarnath-based Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL), along with the Kochi-based Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), have since 2002 been trying to develop an on-shore AIP system that will enable an SSK to stay submerged continuously for about 25 days. The methanol-based steam reforming system suitable for a SSK needs comprises a storage vessel for methanol, a storage vessel for oxygen, a steam reformer assembly, a gas purification stage, and a carbon dioxide handling system. Methanol is a liquid at room temperature and can be stored in tanks. The methanol will be consumed as it is used by the NMRL-developed Borohydride Hydrolysis/Phosphoric Acid-based fuel cell, and a hard conformal tank requires compensation to accommodate the changing volume to prevent it from collapsing. Direct water contact with methanol is unacceptable because the two are miscible. External storage of methanol in soft conformal bags is now being tried out. The bags are fabricated from methanol-resistant material and, during operation, the seawater naturally displaces the consumed methanol without coming into contact with it. Methanol is a toxic, flammable liquid that burns without a flame, but is easily contained and therefore, if the system is correctly designed, it should not pose a safety hazard. There is also considerable interest in methanol reformer systems for use in automobiles and buses. Alcohols and hydrocarbons can, in theory, act as fuel for a fuel cell and be directly oxidised like hydrogen. One of the commonest fuels of this type is methanol, which is used in the Direct Methanol Fuel Cell (DMFC) of the type now being developed by Germany’s HDW.
However, no significant R & D breakthroughs have been achieved by the NMRL nor are they expected to be achieved in the latter half of the decade. To date, only 30% of the required test-points have been obtained, despite the shore-based AIP module being in operation as a technology demonstrator since 2011. Apart from the NMRL and NPOL, other DRDO laboratories and industrial entities that are involved with this R & D venture are Larsen & Toubro, THERMAX, IOCL, TEXOL, Indian Institute of Petroleum, AKSA, CEEFES, C-DAC, DIGITRONICS, NSTL, RCI, ROLTA and MDL.
The Messy Project 75I
As of now, there is no clarity within either the MoD or Naval HQ on what Project 75I is all about and how it ought to proceed. For instance, while Naval HQ on one hand is insisting that the six SSKs of imported design under this project must be equipped with indigenous AIP modules and the SSK hulls must be built with indigenously produced DMR-292A steel (all six CM-2000 Scorpenes are built with HLES-80 high-yield stress-specific steel supplied by ArcelorMittal, which will allow the SSKs to reach diving depths of up to 300 metres/1,150 feet and achieve an average of 240 days at sea per year per submarine), it is now also clamouring for financial sanction for procuring six indigenously designed and built nuclear attack submarines (SSN).
Now, if an all-new imported SSK design is to be chosen for Project 75I, it would mean that hull-design selection cannot take place unless and until the indigenous AIP module emerges as a proven solution. Add to that the time taken for such an AIP module to be integrated with the selected hull-design after a lengthy process of sea-trials (which can last for up to four years for the lead boat). Consequently, if one is to believe the NMRL’s assurances of a full proven AIP module being available by 2020, then the RfP for procuring the six AIP-equipped SSKs will not be released until 2018 at best, and the first AIP-equipped SSK will not enter service before 2026 at best. What further complicates matters is that the NMRL-developed AIP module presently has structural dimensions and electro-mechanical interfaces tailor-made for seamless integration with the CM-2000 Scorpene’s hull.
Both common-sense and logic therefore demand that the scope of Project 75I be limited to the immediate procurement of only three additional CM-2000 Scorpene SSKs all equipped with the indigenous AIP modules.   

151 comments:

A said...

Hello sir

You did not answer the questions I posted in last article.. again congrats for detailed work.. few questions..

Article on Rafale

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2017-01-12/more-rafales-india-still-likely

1. Is it true? The above article by Neelam Mathews

2. What about Make In India Rafale? What's the status?

3. Indian Navy Rafales - will it operate from STOBAR carriers.. will Mig29k benched completely?

4. Eventual probable number of Rafale IAF and IN?

On scorpene-

1. What about HWT? F21 deal is when?

2. When will we take the AIP from DCNS and complete our boats? DRDO AIP seems to be on paper only.. is if being tested anyplace in live environment in old kilo.boats? If not then why not take French Fuel Cell AIP?

3. When is the follow on order?

4. Mazgaon dock second line is lying idle.. why not make improved super scorpenes or more scorpenes there?

5. Any chance we can get Barracuda technology and use some in scorpenes and our SSN projects?

Pratap said...

Best thingh Indian Navy could do at this point... Cancle P-75I, invest that money to expand SSN project from 6 to 9-12 subs. Order 3 more AIP equipped Scorpenes as interim solution.

Sanjay Sharma said...

Excellent article Prasunji.

1) And thanks for the info on China's economic woes. But I have a very important question for you.

A wounded animal is always more dangerous than a healthy animal. As China's economic woes worsen, how do you think it will react?

Will it focus on its economy and shun more adventures like the US did with the crises of 2008 or will it become more belligerent and aggressive? Especially with respect to India?

2) Forgive me for continuing to bug you on this topic sir, but I have just a few more queries regarding the naval brahmos.
While it is true what you said about people's naval militia and old soviet tactics of shadowing us carrier groups, can't India use maritime patrol aircraft for long distance target data for 550km range brahmos or maybe even satellites?

3) Has the IN categorically refused 550km range brahmos or is the possibility still there to induct it and then later acquire the targeting facilities?

4) Does PLAN have any ship launched AShM as of now that can outrange the Brahmos?

5) There are multiple sources on the Internet showing the yj 18. It is remarkably similar to Russian kalibr. If so this is most serious as the kalibr has a range of 550-600km and can vastly outperform the Brahmos. It is in this context I believe we need the 550km range brahmos. Your opinion?

6) Sir, you said earlier that the Brahmos uses a dive and top attack mode of hitting its target. Does this mean that the Brahmos has no sea skimming phase at all?

7) Does the Brahmos have any stealth characteristics?

8) Would you rate the Brahmos as the best anti ship missile in Asia? (especially compared to our rival navies)

Thanks

Jyoti Sen said...

Dada.. What about the torpedoes? When we will sign the deal of 98 torpedoes? F21 or blackshark? And don't u think exocet anti ship missile is pretty outdated? And what about the AIP?

Rajdeep said...

Since the P 75 I is getting delayed
we must Order SIX More Scorpenes

The Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean will soon see many Chinese and Pakistani
Ships and Submarines operating Together under a Joint Command

Raman said...


awesome !!!

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
Thanks for this great post. I observed that for torpedoes the options mentioned in above post is Black Shark OR MK48. Are you sure about MK48. It's very very interesting.

Can you share the different types of sonars used in these subs with their detection range?

In previous post you mentioned that Brahmins NG could be fired from torpedo tubes of these subs. That means no VLS required at all. Is it another reason for cancellation of project 75I?

Kambar said...

Many thanks for the answers in the previous thread.

1) Does the Scorpene have anything similar to the SPHINX-D Radar System in the mast? Does it have FMCW to make it LPI capable?

2) Does the Scorpene have fin/flank array sonars (like the S-cube) or just the bow-mounted one?

3) Given Brazil's economic crash, the idea of the Brazilian navy with SSNs sounds laughable. Agreed? We can barely buy SSNs and Rafales as it is.

4) Why has Dassault not increased Rafale production above 11 as the media said it would? Is Dassault's French production line actually capped at 11?

5) Chinese SSNs are supposedly under constant surveillance by the USN/IN, but the whole purpose of single prowling SSN is for them to go stealthily and undetected. So is there any chance that the Chinese SSNs can sneak up on us? If no, then does this mean the PLAN SSNs will only be useful for guarding SSBNs and sailing with the surface fleet?

6) Based on the above, can US and European SSNs be detected by the IN? How stealthy will the IN SSN be? Will it be able to stealthily go on lone-wolf missions in enemy waters?

7) Which HWT torpedo will the IN SSN use?

8) Would it be possible to JV to develop a successor to the RBU-6000? The successor system will fire a rocket that contains a guided torpedo. The torpedo is small and supercavitating and can kinetically kill the enemy torpedo.

9) If DARE failed to develop an EW suite for Tejas, why are no eyes being raised on their work for Super Sukhoi 30?

10) How is developing an MGS system in country impossible? We have developed/stolen the armoured truck, the gun barrel, and a fire control computer. What needs to be developed from scratch is the new mounting/actuation system, the control system, recoil management, storage system and fit all those components in an optimized space. At the very least, if we cant do this ourselves, there are plenty of other countries with MGS systems that we could rope in as consultants, like South Africa, Slovakia/Serbia, or Germany. The Archer artillery system is literally the Bofors gun on a truck.

Kambar said...

11) What will Tejas mk1a have instead of OBOGS? What is OBOGS used for? Does this mean Tejas mk1A pilots will have to regularly use emergency oxygen tanks instead of reserving them exclusively for emergency situations?

12) I like your idea of the Combat Hawk, but I think we need a bigger CAS plane. Like the M-346 with 2 F-124 turbofans (like upgraded Jaguar) or the FA-50 with the F-404 (like Tejas mk1). The Israelis chose the M-346 over the Hawk and the Hawk does not even meet the reqd specs for the USAF T-X competition. The KAI T-50 is actually very similar to the proposed LIFT Tejas. The FBW controls for Tejas and the T-50 must be very similar, based on Lockheed Martin's involvement. But the FA-50 has a better wing design for subsonic CAS missions. How much can we squeeze into the new wing slat Hawk to make it approach the level of the M-346?

13) How many Shang class SSNs will be built? How many are in service? How good are they compared to Akula? Are there concrete plans to built a Shang follow on soon? Will the follow on be close to Western standards like the IN SSN?

14) Can the IN blockade the Lombok Strait and the Ombai Wetar Straits with deep sea mines?

15) How will the Agni-5 have MIRVs added to it? You said that the MIRVs are coming from a foreign country, Russia I presume (correct?). However, the MIRVs are not designed to fit ICBMs, but instead ICBMs are designed to accommodate MIRVs. Does that mean the next Agni 5 will have a completely different design?

16) Isn't ISRO using one rocket to launch 90 satellites basically the same technique as MIRVs? Can't ISRO design our MIRVs instead, just like NASA works for the US Army, same with Russia and China?

17) OFB still cannot design and produce indigenous fuzes. This is worrying because our explosives will do nothing if the fuze malfunctions. What measures can be taken ASAP to produce indigenous, reliable fuzes?

18) Will we proceed with developing the MBDA JV SRSAM? If not, what will replace the Aakash and Python-1?

19) One thing that I have heard from the US wars abroad is that they keep running out of PGMs even though they have the highest production rate in the world, with a recent shortage against ISIS (whose military is basically guys in Toyota pick-up trucks with Chinese AK-47 clones). What conclusions can be drawn from this? Are PGMs still too expensive to be deployed, and will the IAF have to use PGMs much more sparingly compared to NATO countries? How much more affordable can PGMs be for us if we develop them in house instead of importing the exorbitant NATO PGMs?

20) Would you say that learning Russian or French languages is useful for Indian persons interested in joining the strategic dialogue? Alternatively, would Mandarin Chinese be very useful to pick up as a fourth language? Or is there really no use in today's world where most people use English as the international language?

rad said...

hi prasun
As the subject has come to ssk. could you explain the sonar and CMS aboard the arihant and the effectiveness. is it that no one will give such systems to be deployed on a desi nuke sub?
why are the Malaysians allowing port call by chinese nuke subs?

how much of the scorpene is indigenous? what would be the most difficult part to make .I believe we have the CMS and sonars and torpedoes.Which is a major item. Can the noise reduction aond raft mounting techniques be used on the future SSN attack sub.

how is the drdo aip comming up .

when is the future ssn line starting?

Aloquik said...

Sir which is the best SSK in the world at present?

The Indian said...

Prasun,
Are we ordering more Scorpenes!And what about their torpedoes?Has the Navy decided which one to purchase?And any technology of the Scorpenes being manufactured is likely to be used for our fifth generation SSNs!

Anonymous said...

http://www.firstpost.com/world/donald-trumps-press-conference-russia-did-it-cnn-is-fake-and-other-things-we-learned-3200058.html

1)what exactly happened during POTUS election? did putin really ordered to hack the US election system if it did they what NSA,CIA,FBI and homeland security are doing? what ur detailed explanation?

2)how sustainable is this Mukesh Ambani JIO free services business?how is he getting funding or capital for this company? but once if it will capture market then what would be guarantee to get same services at same conditions

http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/sI7ZAISf22zYHiMwjPThVL/The-happy-new-year-offer.html



Regards
Ron

Anup said...

Sir,

But without weapons.

Debmalya said...

Prasun da
Whats the status on the Torpedos to be armed with these ?

Anonymous said...

Wow this looks amazing. It will be hunting B-3 launchers soon.

I saw the video of the BSF Jawan. I have been in a state of shock. I have heard that some units hate going to J&K. I thought this was due to morale and the desire to live. NEVER did i EVER think it would be due to shit food. Did you see the food they were making and had to eat. F**k, babu's don't even give that to their dogs.

Here COAS is talking about cold start, well I wish him luck but he needs to give his men and the BSF real hot food first. Otherwise the cold start will be only in his dreams. Sorry about the rant but there is an old say army marches on its stomach. When I see officiers, I see fatties most of the time.

This corruption has to be sorted out. sorry again.

rajen

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Prasun,

1. Any headway on the issue of the Torpedoes for the Scorpenes? Are we going for the Black sharks or we still looking for an alternative?

2. Is GOI going to exercise the option of 3 more scorpene?

3. What is the status of the DRDO AIP?

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,
1)French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault without naming Pak said: “We particularly want to see decisive action taken, in keeping with international law, against terrorist groups targeting India, particularly the Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Jaish-e-Mohammad and the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. “France has very firmly condemned the terrorist attacks against India, including the recent one in Uri, and reiterated its full solidarity with India in its combat against terrorism.” Without naming China which has blocked a proposal at the UNSC to sanction JeM chief Azhar, French Foreign Minister said, “The international community’s determination to combat terrorism must be the same everywhere, regardless of the threat.”
2)Twin suicide blasts near the Afghan parliament & Kandahar that killed not only Afghans but UAE officials also. UAE Ambassador was in Kandahar on a humanitarian mission to lay foundation stone for the Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan centre for orphans.
Government spokesman in Kabul said that the terrorists were able to strike targets inside Afghanistan whenever they wanted because Pakistan had allowed them to maintain safe havens in Fata.

………..US & it’s Ally,what you have said earlier “the big powers” slowly recognized the real foe and danger is Pakistan.

I think this terrorist attack surly have broader impact in international perspective.

……….............Please give your valuable remark.


rad said...

hi prasun
what is this new navigation system on the pinaka that the drdo is tom toming about/?

Gessler said...

Excellent collection of pics, Prasun ji! I believe the 3rd Scorpene will also be launched this year?

Got some questions for you after a long time -

1) Is there anything new on the Project-15B Visakhapatnam-class destroyers compared with the P-15A/Kolkata-class? Do the VLS cells dedicated for Barak-8 remain at 32 or have they been increased? I suppose Vizag also carries 32 additional rounds below deck?

2) You have previously mentioned that Selex ES could soon be de-blacklisted. If this happens, it presents us with an opportunity to buy the RAN-40L AESA surveillance radar as a replacement for the BEL-built RAWL-02 across the fleet. Especially on the new destroyers. As per your info, only one RAN-40L set was purchased (for IAC-1 Vikrant) and they we shut the doors on them.

3) Just something I've realized...there are hundreds of TV channels in India in all languages, yet most of them depend upon foreign satellite uplinks for transmission. Almost fully-commercialized entities like Intelsat (based out of Luxembourg) enjoy huge market shares. My parents used to work in the field of Electronic media management and I've found out that they have to pay as much as Rs. 10 lakhs per month to satellite service providers like Indiasign (who book slots with these satellites) for a 2Mbps uplink (non-HD). Most top-end English/national channels must pay a lot more.

Where is ISRO/India Inc. in all this? ISRO seems to be too preoccupied with providing services for fucking DoorDarshan. While areas like Meteorology, Remote-Sensing etc. are crucial, I feel they're doing nowhere near what they can in order to keep the money flowing. They've achieved some success in being a low-cost Launch Vehicle provider...and I think it's time the private sector steps in to make fully commercially-viable satellite projects.

Anything to say about this topic?

3) Anything happening at all with OFB's Advanced Assault Rifle (AAR), Joint-Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC) or the new LMG they seem to be building?

4) Kalashnikov-Israel has come up with an offer to produce the AK-Alfa 7.62x39 rifle in India. You think this could be a good replacement for the AKM/Vz.58 types used by Rashtriya Rifles and other CI units?

5) Army seems to have sent out a solicitation to global arms manufacturers to buy a new .338 Lapua bolt-action sniper rifle. Requests have been sent to Barrett, ArmaLite, Steyr, Blaser Jagdwaffen, PGM Precision, KBP Instrument Design Bureau, Kalashnikov/Izhevsk (Izhmash), IWI, SIG-Sauer, & Nexter.

There sure appear to be many good rifles that are likely to be offered, and while I don't mind whichever gets selected (would love the Barrett MRAD though, NSG already operates the M98B, an earlier iteration of MRAD), can't help but asking...do you have any favorites? :D

6) Anything moving with regard to future PWRs for S-5 SSBN and SSN?

7) Speaking of SSNs, any progress on selecting a design? Modified Arihant, N-Scorpene, Barracuda or Russian 4++ gen design?

Thanks in advance!

Rahul said...

Hello Sir

I just wanted to Know whether you receive a Lot of FAN MAIL from Pakistanis
especially recently ; given that you have RAINED on their Parade

They were jumping like Monkeys after their Missile launch and you called their Bluff

Manu Singh said...

Prasunda,

You had mentioned that Pinaka rockets were going to use the TCS from IMI. That was possible only after the blacklisting removed from the company.

However, the recent Pinaka II test seems to have an indigenous TCS. As explained in this article:
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com.au/2017/01/successful-pinaka-guided-rocket-test.html

Is it a real indigenous development or label fixing by DRDO?

Thanks

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MANU SINGH: LoLz! Look carefully at the photo showing the control-fins of the guidance kit that forms the cone-shaped tip of the Pinaka-2 rocket. That proves that the terminal-guidance kit is this from MBDA (and not indigenous & no one has so far claimed it to be indigenous:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qfo6ItqGyh8/Vv8L3gzbWUI/AAAAAAAAKi8/LRARGlEejIYRw0suOe18qp2Ee6rT-9rkA/s1600/Pinaka-2%2Bterminal%2Bguidance-2%2B.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YvArR-D1sM0/Vv8L7WCV-RI/AAAAAAAAKjA/JH-mV5RYbEYT_c_1Q-mStQNLnRpGDSDgg/s1600/Pinaka-2%2Bterminal%2Bguidance-3%2B.jpg

The Pinaka-1 rockets still use TCS. And no new contracts were placed for Pinaka-1 last November, as alleged. Only DAC approval was given. The firm orders will be placed only by this June.

To RAD: Each battery Command Post vehicle of Pinaka-1/2 MBRL comes equipped with a SIGMA-30 RLG-INS & a related north-pointing system. The very same SIGMA-30 is also on the Dhanush-45 & ATAGS.

dushyant hardaha said...

truth about CPEC must watch
why we should pray for CPEC completion
new age east china company
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE06kW-DPOA

Anonymous said...

hi prasun
why cant we make our own guidance system for the pinaka?. After all we have the IRNSS up now , we have the algorithyms for navigation that went into the guided glide bomb,we have the 3GOM nav chip. we have the sigma 30 as back up. Is it so difficult after all this .Even if the gps was jammed we could have the RCI nav inertial systems to guide the pinaka Is this workable and what are the challenges?

soorya narayan said...

Prasun da, Tonbo imaging from Bangalore is already making IRST systems as per their website , why can't these be used on Indian Aircraft

rad said...

hi prasun
Extra time has been given to the drdo to prove the nirbhay. It seems that for every new nirbhay to be produced an approval , indent and the bull shit bureaucratic procedures are to be followed. Any body in his right t sense will always have a stock of vital parts ready to start production of the next missile.So we can only expect the next missile a year from now .So that makes it 15 years for a missile to be proven!! crazy guys! what is the solution.?This is in the hopw that same sane person would read this blog and do something!!

Do you think Vietnam will get scared of china threats not buy missiles from india? I dont think akash is such a great missile like the barak 8 to get scared off?? why are the chinks hyper reacting?.

Rajdeep said...

Dear Sir

Some two years ago we had signed a deal with HONEYWELL for TALIN 2000

That time it was clearly mentioned about this System going into PINAKA MK 2

Please read this

Honeywell adds precision to Indian-made Weapons


http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/honeywell-adds-precision-to-indian-made-weapons-114100600422_1.html

What happened to this deal

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Here's the interesting interview:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/lt-general-bipin-rawat-surgical-strikes-indian-army/1/849662.html

And here's the critical analysis:

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/Taking-%E2%80%98Cold-Start%E2%80%99-out-of-the-freezer/article17019025.ece

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To A: 1 & 2) The next tranche of Rafales to be ordered for the IAF will be 80 in number. The concept of ‘Make in India’ does not specify that the complete platform be built in India. That industrial model applied to only the USSR during the Cold War era because the Soviets never had any buy-back provision nor did they want to create a global supplier chain. Today, thanks to industrial offsets clauses, several Indian companies can become part of global supplier chains & earn far more revenues both for themselves & the country. Licence-assembling only certain portions of an aircraft (as is the case with Su-30MKI, for instance) is now a discredited military-industrial model when it comes to aircraft of imported design. 3) Rafales if acquired for the IN will operate solely from IAC-2. 4) IAF will get more than 120 Rafales while IN will get 36. The HWT contract won’t be inked this fiscal year. As for AIP, refer to the narrative above. Scorpene already incorporates several technologies found on French Navy’s SSNs & SSBNs.

To SANJAY SHARMA: 1) There will be brinkmanship from China, but no aggressiveness. 2) Any MR/ASW aircraft is a defensive platform & can NEVER venture out into the deep seas & stay put. Secondly, no navy ever operates such aircraft & submarines in a synchronised manner. They operate independent of onme another & none of the two ever knows where the other one is. 3) IN wants Nirbhay LACM’s shipborne version, not 550km-range BrahMos-1. 4) No. 5) There’s no YJ-18. It’s all hogwash & speculation from Internet fanboys. 6) Nope. 7) What for? 8) Yes.

To JYOTI SEN: HWTs will be ordered only next year. Members of the Exocet family have undergone periodic upgrades WRT their on-board sensors. In any case, any submarine’s surface search radars can’t look beyond the horizon.

To RAJDEEP: Do check out the narrative above. WRT TALIN INS, there’s a hige difference between what the ‘desi’ press perceives to be the case & what really is the case all about. Therefore, always go to the source & here it is:

https://www.honeywell.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2014/09/honeywell-and-tata-power-sed-sign-landmark-agreement-for-india-s-defense-industry

Honeywell says NOTHING at all about this INS being used by rockets or missiles or any other PGM. Instead, it mentions users as being vehicles in large numbers, i.e. armoured vehicles like the Kestrel. The SIGMA-30 is still the mainstay RLG-INS for field artillery assets & was recently ordered for the BEL-built Swathi WLRs as well.

To RAMAN: VMT.

TO VED: It will be either Black Shark or F-21. Not Mk.48. Sonar detection ranges remain classified. P-75I is extremely messy & I have explained it above.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KAMBAR: 1) Yes, from THALES. 2) Check out the photo above. 3) We can do both, provided common-sense is used. 4) It takes time to ramp-up production levels. It is not that easy to procure highly skilled human resources. 5) No chance at all. PLAN’s SSNs & SSBNs are noisy compared to their Western & Russian counterparts. 6) No, they can’t. 7) Indian SSN is still a long way off. 8) Not necessary at all. There are already hittile versions of the Maareech torpedo decoy that are available. 9) Of course they are raised. 10) No one will come forward to lend consultancy in such critical areas. ARDE already tried to hire such consultants & has always failed. Archer is a heavily re-engineered version of the FH-77. Differences are substantial. 11) Oxyhen bottles. 12) Why try to squeeze anything into the Combat bHawk when new-generation small-diameter PGMs are available? 13) 20 in all. 7 are in service. 14) No. It will never happen as it is against international law. 15) MIRVs aren’t coming from any foreign country. Only their production engineering expertise is. Never judge a book by its cover. What matters is not how the Agni-5 looks, but what’s inside it. Only that will reveal what’s locally designed & what isn’t. 16) Launching satellites is a one-way street involving no re-entry. How can that be equated with MIRV re-entry? 17) Increase R & D funding. 18) No, that project is dead. 19) PGM shortages pertain to CENTCOM only, not other theatre commands. DRDO has been trying to develop PGMs since the late 1980s. 20) Learning any foreign language will be most useful.

To RAD: Had already explained it all in several threads in the past. Licence-buildiung or assembling anything whose IPRs are held by foreign OEMs can hardly qualify as indigenous items. Hence, any warship built in India has at best only 20% of items whose IPRs are of Indian ownership. Of all warships buolt by Indian shipyards, INS Chennai was the first to be built with DMR-249B steel (IAC-1 too is is using this steel). All other warships like P-16, P-15, first two P-15A DDGs & four P-28 corvettes used steel imported from Russia.

To RAHUL: Nope. Never receive any such thing from them.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Shocking & startling conclusions reached yesterday by well-meaning Pakistanis about the simmering sectarian volcano that will soon erupt with full force inside Pakistan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOTG2v3J5Go

Sunnis pitted against Shias, Barelvis against Deobandis, JeM against Let/JuD, etc etc. This seems to be an unstoppable reality, given the fact that ISIS is strking ever-firm roots inside Pakistan (and not Afghanistan as is oppularly believed). This now also explains how the youth in J & K have steadily becomne radicalised through all the extremist winds blowing into J & K from Pakistan & PoK. And to make matters worse, Pakistan's Federal Interior Minister has lost all his marbles at this critical juncture!!!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Indian Spy Who Worked For the USSR & UK & who Fooled The Italians, Nazis, Japanese & Double-crossed Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAiNLo4rwA8

Sanjeev said...

Hi Prasun, china tv is claiming something interesting. What's your views on this. https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/820419119900028929

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANJEEV: If that's what is being claimed, then it must be based on simulations & operations analysis conducted by the PLA's national warfighting/battlefield simulation facility. This in turn means that the PLA's perceptions of its own capabilities & capacities are deeply if not totally flawed. If so, then this will work not just to India's advantage, but to the advantages of all other foes of China too.

Anup said...

Sir,
US Navy conducting shock test for ships. Why not other Navies not doing same test?

rad said...

Hi prasun
In the pic the NMRL claim they have given tech to the private industry which means they have over come many problems.?

you mentioned that the next tranche of rafales will be for 80 nos? where is the money for all this add the 200 single engine fighter deal for another 10 bill$ plus??

what would be the cost of the future ssn .Is drdo contemplating a new reactor for the future subs.

Shiv Athreya said...

Prasunda, what is the status of Prahaar missile system? Are they inducted?

bhoutik said...

tumbleweed minesweeper - https://twitter.com/UberFacts/status/820394314131980289

Jon said...

Would like your view on the below mentioned article:

http://idrw.org/china-offers-india-fresh-proposals-to-mend-ties/

What is the substance of these proposals? What is Delhi's reaction likely to be? Why have the Chinese made it at this juncture?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANUP: Of course all warship-building countries conduct such shock-tests. Without such tests, the hull’s resistance to battle damage can never be quantified.

To RAD: ToT to private-sector doesn’t mean a fully developed product is ready for mass production. All it means is that hardware construction for the experimental technology demonstrator is being outsourced to private industry because the DRDO doesn’t possess any in-house production engineering capability. There’s more than enough money available for more Rafales & that’s why it is premature to draw any conclusion on what type of additional single-engined or twin-engined MRCAs will be procured. Releasing an RFI does not constitute any serious proof of intent to procure anything. An RFI/EoI merely provides inputs for doing analysis of cost-to-benefit ratios. Matters get serious only after any RFP is issued. The SSN issue was discussed in an earlier thread.

To SHIV ATHREYA: Prahaar, Pragati & Pralaya are now all experimental NLOS-BSMs that are consigned forever to the laboratories since India has decided not to field any TNWs.

To BHOUTIK: Here’s the video-clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0dWZ7dsCes

To JON: They have just been received & are being analysed at the moment. Naturally the Govt of India will respond with a counter-proposal WRT to the various treaties/agreements being proposed. I personally see this as a climbdown by Beijing & an attempt by President Xi to assert his overall leadership through the CMC to overcome all PLA objections to any rapproachment on the boundary issue, since the PLA is known to have been unable to provide convincing answers to the civilian leadership of the CPC about its ability to muster overwhelming military force against India throughout TAR. In addition, the maturing of India’s strategic deterrent arsenals is bound to pose strains on the PLA’s Strategic Rocket Forces by forcing them to expand their trarget vectors, which can be a highly expensive affair for the PLA at a time when funds are urgently reqd for sustaining the PLA’s conventional force modernisation efforts.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

WRT how big a deal it is to integrate the fire-control system of any submarine-launched weapon with the combat management system & RLG-INS of a submarine, this should serve a few pointers:

http://www.safran-electronics-defense.com/media/safrans-sigma-40-inertial-navigation-system-aces-integration-tests-agm-84-harpoon-antiship-missile-system-20161019

Therefore, to claim that any LACM can be seamlessly integrated with the CMS of any PN-operated submarine of French origin is simply ridiculous & totally out of the question.

Satya said...

Great comparison of India's P-15A with China's Type 52D. https://defencyclopedia.com/2014/09/24/the-great-asian-showdown-indias-kolkata-class-vs-chinas-type-52d-destroyer/


1) Everything is fine in P-15A's except its limited air defence capability. Article says total loadout for barak 8 missiles is 32 but there's enough space to add 32 more cells in future for total of 64 VLS cells with ready to fire Barak 8 missiles.

2) The article says there's space for 8 VLS cells to carry Nirbhay missiles. True?

3)

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SATYA: On many counts concerning hardware fitments, that comparison is factually way off the mark.

Sanjay Sharma said...

Dear Prasunji, thank you for your previous replies.

1) If brahmos does not have a sea skimming phase, does this not make it extremely vulnerable to surface to air missiles, considering that Radars can detect the Brahmos well beyond the radar horizon due to its high cruising altitude of 14000m.

2) Is the Brahmos capable of making high angle terminal maneuvers at supersonic speeds to avoid CIWS?

3) If the hittile version of the Mareech has been developed doesn't that render the RBU 6000 redundant? Will it not be wiser to replace the RBU 6000 with more VLS modules for brahmos or Barak or nirbhay?

4) I noticed there is significant space between the Barak and brahmos VLS modules on the Kolkata class and also space on either side of the Barak modules near the heli hanger. Do you think the navy will equip more VLS modules there in the future?

5) Considering the type 344 OTH radar on the front line ships of the PLAN has a passive range of 450km does this not give them a huge advantage in that they don't need helis for OTHT? Any plans to equip our ships with such radar in the future?

6) Name and range of torpedoes currently equipping the shishumar class?

7) What is the AShM and torpedoes currently used by our naval seaking helis?

Thanks

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa,

You wrote till date, only 30% of the required test-points have been obtained, despite the shore-based AIP module being in operation

Will you Please elaborate what are these Test Points?

Thanks,
VIKRAM

rad said...

hi prasun
can the hq-9 sam on type 52d destroyer take down a brahmos. The missile is massive at 1300 kg and hence will not be so agile in the terminal mode a s maneuver by the brahmos will make it deff miss.??

Or can the RAM knock off chinese version do the job??

Satya said...

Sir, the part about Nirbhay might be incorrect but i strongly feel there's space for 32 more VLS cells for Barak-8 as current 32 cells are insufficient for destroyers like P-15A as most destroyers have 64-96 SAMs.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANJAY SHARMA: 1) Only LR-SAMs can intercept in inbound supersonic ASCM, but if BrahMos-1 is fired in a salvo, then the interception probability by LR-SAMs decreases. 2) Nothing of that sort. 3) Not quite. RBU-6000 plays a big role in snapping the guidance wires of wire-guided HWT. So despite hittie anti-torpedo interceptors existing, it always pays to have mortars like RBU-6000. 4) I had already explained numerous times before that P-15A DDGs have 64 Barak-8 LR-SAMs, not 32. 32 LR-SAMs are always stored internally as reloads. 5) How can a radar operate passively? Nor are the range figures accurate & they’re all inventions of Chinese internet fanboys. 7) SUT-B wire-guided HWTs, same as those used by PN’s Agosta 90Bs. 7) No ADCMs after the Sea Eaghes were retired. LWT used is the TAL from BDL.

To VIKRAM GUHA: They can’t be, as they are far too long & are of a highly technical nature.

To RAD: Yes it can. But the laser-guided FL-3000N can’t.

To SATYA: I had already stated numerous times before that P-15A DDGs have 64 Barak-8 LR-SAMs, not 32. 32 LR-SAMs are always stored internally as reloads.

Ravi said...

Satya,

P15 also has 2 x 8 VLS for Brahmos which eats up a lot of space.


Rad said...

H i prasun
Has the hq 9 ship borne sam active radar.? Is russia supplying that component.
You mentioned that baraks are stored inside the kolkatta class ships, can the be reloaded frm inside.
Pak uses german seahake torpedoes as well , did they order it after delivery or specified it before hand for the CMS to be compatible

Vino said...

How long does it take to reload the LR-SAM after firing.. Is it practical to reload while under attack ? and how abt other the destroyers of other countries. Are they re-loadable too ?

Ram Bharadwaj said...

prasun

1. The PN's Khalid class (Agosta-90) got the MESMA AIP's some years back. How did that alter the naval balance of power vis-a-vis the IN? Are they now better placed to hit Mumbai or BARC or RIL's jamnagar refinery with Exocet's? How is IN placed w.r.t to PN in sub-surface warfare in present day before the chinese SSK's arrive by 2022?

2. The sea-harrier's got an upgrade in the last decade when they were upgraded with ELTA radar and equipped with Derby missiles. Can these missiles and radars be re-used or they also become junk?

3. Does IN need big DDG's like Type 55 of PLAN?

4. What is the status of the IN's proposed NMRH acquisition?

Chiru said...

Prasun da,
How many TEL does pak have in its arsenal, and can you confirm if the source is china for the same.

Anonymous said...

Drones: Will Trump give India what Obama Couldn’t? please critically express ur views why obama denied armed droned and even restrained Israel?

Regards
Ron

Somnath said...

how are missiles "reloaded" in canisters in high seas?

Anonymous said...

Many years ago there was a big issue with USA saying PN had modified one of their Harpoons from Ship to Land Attack. I have tried digging, it seems the issue died but there are reports saying that is when USA realised that they were working on SLCM. If anything, it show that IN will need to purchase more ant-sub equipment. The coastal cities/industrial site will be (in 5+yrd) more vulnerable, especially if they can get decent number loaded. They can also threaten our trade to the west and south much more (in 5+yrs) than they can now. Blockade them will be much harder and much more costly in the future. What options otherthan buy more anti-sub planes do we have?

Rat

Satya said...

But sir why did Indian Navy chose to have reload system? Why not have more VLS cells? Isnt it better to have 64 - ready to fire missiles - in 64 cells than reloads?

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
Seahawks torpedo DM2A4 with PN is a serious threat. With range more than 50 km and speed over 50 knots it can be deadly against IN. Though we are getting ATAS from the same OEM, what are superior options to DM2A4? On one against one between PN agosta and any IN Frigate or destroyer the Agosta seem to be at advantage as the range of Varunastra is less than 50km. Unless we equip major warships with ASW helos with torpedoes. What do you say?

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa,

Given your vast experience, do you think it is a good idea to provide Management Consulting services to the Armed forces & vendors from the Defence, Aerospace sector in India?

Many Thanks

Vin said...

Hi Prasun

What will be the composition of the planned 200 ship Indian Navy .. Wiki gives the current composition as "As of 2016, the Indian Navy has a strength of 79,023 personnel and a large operational fleet consisting of two aircraft carriers, one amphibious transport dock, eight landing ship tanks, 11 destroyers, 14 frigates, one nuclear-powered attack submarine, one ballistic missile submarine, 13 conventionally-powered attack submarines, 24 corvettes, six mine countermeasure vessels, 27 patrol vessels, four fleet tankers and various other auxiliary vessels."

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VIN: That depends on how forward-thinking the ION wants to be. For instance, will the IN embrace the on-going revolution in AUV/UUV platforms for persistent surveillance & procure them for operations controlled by SW/ASW vessels? Will the IN opt for revolutionary platform designs for multi-purpose corvettes, instead of sticking to conventional vessel designs? For example, it makes no sense to go for NGMVs armed with only ASCMs & use them only as FAC-Ms. Weapons technology & net-centricity is so advanced today that one does not need a FAC-M to sneak within striking distance of a hostile shore-based target when long-range LACMs are available. Already today the new-generation stealthy corvettes displacing less than 1,000 tonnes can carry more firepower than an existing FFG.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Who would like to provide such services?

To VED: Firstly, why should any HWT be expected to adopt a laterally straight course? Secondly, how exactly will any submarine acquire a warship 50km away & expect to stay hidden? Optronic masts donlt have that range & even if masts & search radars are used by the submarine, they will immediately be picked up by any warship’s search radar. No can sonars detect targets out to 50km. Therefore, for the most part, submarine-launched HWTs are meant for use against civilian merchant marine vessels whenever they’re travelling in convoys & are not escorted by warships.

To SATYA: Against exactly which hostile warship will carry or launch enough ASCMs that will merit all 64 LR-SAMs to be fired in successive salvoes?

To RAT: What is there to modify? Any ACM’s active seeker can easily detect anything metallic & will home on to it. That’s how the IN’s P-15 ASCMs were used in 1971 against the oil tank storage farms in Karachi. Today a salvo of 300km-range 3M-14E LACMs fired from Type 877EKM SSKLs can do far more damage & enforce any maritime blocade of Karachi from a distance of 290km. Nor can LRMR/ASW platforms be fully effective against a sunmerged SSK powered by AIP. The only solution therefore is to go for an array of seabed-mounted surveillance network using passive sonars.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SOMNATH: They’re DDGs, not canoes or sail boats that can be tossed around by waves. Missiles are not reloaded in cannisters. The missiles come encased within cannisters that can be moved around in rollers.

To RON: That’s because at that time India wasn;t a member of MTCR. Now that the US has facilitated India’s entry into MTCR, this isn’t a problem for any future US administration.

To CHIRU: TELs for which weapon?

To RAM BHARADWAJ: MESMA AIP enables the Agosta 90Bs to operate far more silently because there’s no noise now being emitted by any diesel engine. But these SSKs still can’t approach close to India’s coastline. The IN’s Type 877EKMs in contrast can stay 290km away from Pakistan’s coastline & hit targets inland with 3M-14E LACMs. The EL/M-2032 radars & Derby BVRAAMs of the Sea Harrier LUSH can be used by the 40 Tejas Mk.1s of the IAF. Future DDGs of the IN will be larger since they will carry Nirbhay-type LACMs in addition to BrahMos-1 ASCMs. NMRH is on hold now because the Ka-28PLs & Sea King Mk.42Bs are being upgraded.

To VINO: It takes about 20 minutes. Why should any reloading take place during an attack? Where’s the need for it? As for other countries, if a country has a chain of overseas replenishment bases then there’s no need to carry reloads.

To RAD: The HQ-9 was a re-engineered S-300P LR-SAM of 1980s vintage & have semi-active guidance. All reloading of Barak-8s is done internally. The PN’s HWTs were ordered at the same time as the Agosta 90B SSKs. Hence, interfacing with SUBTICS CMS wasn’t a problem.

Chiru said...

TELs for both cruise and ballistic missiles in pak's arsenal.

Pierre Zorin said...

One question I was meaning to ask for a while: there is a lot of apprehension when buying Chinese made Tractors, Chain saws, cars and so forth and for a very right reason. A lot of them are junks. How is it then, countries don't mind purchasing Chinese made weaponry and ammunitions? Is the QC different and the Chinese ensure the quality is excellent as opposed to dodgy clones sold worldwide? How is one to know if they are durable and reliable?

Sanjay Sharma said...

Dear Prasun

1) Considering most modern destroyers use on board light weight torpedoes like the mark 50, MU 90 etc and the Varunastra is a HWT, does this give our ships equipped with this torpedo any advantage?

2) Is the range of Varunastra 30km or 40km?

3) How come the Brahmos is not capable of random last minute manoeuvres prior to target impact considering the last gen AShM like RBS mk3 and harpoon are capable of doing that. The Brahmos aerospace claims the missile is capable of terminal S shaped manoeuvre prior to target impact. Is this bluster from their part?

4) Is the Varunastra wire guided or autonomous?

5) How many Varunastras and TAL are carried on board the Kolkata and shivalik?

6) How would you compare the Kolkata class with type 52 of PLAN?

7) Chinese sources claim type 55 will approach the zummwalt. How can we counter such power if the claims are true?

8) Does the Barak 8 have top speed of Mach 2 or 4?

9) How come you rate the Brahmos as the finest AShM in Asia considering it doesn't have sea skimming approach or manoeuvrability but missiles like klub and yj 12 do?

10) How widely do you expect the PLAN will deploy the yj 12 on their surface fleet? Will all their yj 83 be substituted with yj 12, including on their Corvettes?

Thanks

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa, apologies for the oversight.
I was referring to startups- can they provide Management Consulting services to the Armed forces & vendors from the Defence, Aerospace sector in India?

bhoutik said...

would incorporating MiG-29OVT style TVC on the Mig-29Ks of the IN provide any benefits in terms of take-off/landings from the carrier, and maneuverability in the air?

Chiru said...

Prasun Da,

Would like to here your comments on this:

Clashes as Sri Lankans protest China port deal -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvxJZRzoSo4

rad said...

hi prasun

You mentioned that no sonar can detect any ship beyond 50 km , the atlas towed array sonar that we are getting has an advertised range of more than 60 km well over the torpedo range of a sub?

am i right in assuming that the brahmos cant do an s weave on homing as the missile cant take the aerodynamic g forces created at that mach 2.5 speed?

as the chinks will arm the babur on surface ships we have to go in for a complete cruise missile defense system asap? They will def try to take out refineries and oil storage facilities. can we take them out with su-30 armed brahmos or will it be too close to the coast as the pak will be vectored by awacs.

can we assume today we can fire brahmos from land in gujarat and take down the oil tanks located underground in karachi?. what about bombay?

can we use the Israeli c -ram proven missile as our next gen anti ship cruise missile defense for smaller vessels that cant have the barak-8 as they can be cued by the ships radar and dont need a separate radar due active homing? why cant it be the weapon for anti cruise missile defense and substitute for the french yet to be concluded expensive sr sam.?


rad said...

hi prasun
you also mentioned that the Indan AIP was only 30% ready and at the same time you suggest that we should order more scorpenes after the last one is delivered . Are you optimistic about the success of the AIP after at least 2022? why so

rad said...

OOOPs sorry all ,i was referring to the sea borne version of the the iron dome missile. IE C-dome!! C ram should be read as C dome!!

Somnath said...

Err, the VLS tube is fixed below the deck. How do you reload a missile in sea state 4/5 into that tube?

aniz said...

Dear prasunda,
Drdo is being tasked to develop a world class system equivalent to trophy aps. So you think it's a wild goose chase ?

Arjun tank is it back in contention . ?

How is the progress on gtre engines? There is no news in Arde developed rifles ?

Anup said...

Sir,
Regarding last question about Shock test.No videos available on net except Us navy. Why?

rad said...

joke of the year

DRDO entrusted with developing a Active anti tank system!!!like the trophy!@#$%%^&*

and OFB develops an ak-47 clone that was dumped on the kerala police !!poor chetas!!

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
Why is IN not planning on nuclear propelled aircraft carriers? If we can make nuclear subs why not aircraft carriers? INS Vishal and Vikrant could have been nuclear propelled. What do you say?

Now that Dhanush, ATAGS , M777 and Vajra being close to induction, what is the status of Mounted Gun System?

Has the Arihant completed all trials? When is it going to south China sea visit and dock at a Vietnamese port?

Anonymous said...

How minorities are treated in Iran.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38656871


Das

Rahul said...

Dear Sir

Now there is Another NEWS Coming in that PAKISTAN is Interested in
UAE MIRAGE 2000-9 ; Though Second Hand but Still ; Some 50 of them

http://www.tacticalreport.com/view_news/UAE-Pakistan-and-Mirage-2000-9s/5264#sthash.FAj297sf.dpuf

In Case they Get them ; They will get a huge boost Immediately

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Retired General Raheel Sharif at WEF in Davos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47w7SwzgK-o

Lightweight Helmets for IA at Last: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJrsBGX8SI

Ravi_N said...

About Lightweight Helmets, this video says https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1NoLTU1OI0, the manufacturer, MKU is a world leader in body armor. Is it a really good one? If yes, when we have an in house company which produces world top quality body armor, why can't the central and state govt make use of it?

Ravi

Thehundered said...

Things seem to be moving..Any thoughts on the article below Prasun? Thanks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2017/01/18/exclusive-india-has-just-bought-3-billion-worth-of-emergency-w/

Top sources in the government confirmed that two separate teams of an "empowered committee" led by senior officials were rushed to Russia and Israel towards the close of 2016 to make these "off-the-shelf purchases"—a procedure of buying resorted to only when there is an emergency. Empowered committees can take on-the-spot decisions to buy and negotiate prices, cutting down lengthy negotiation processes.

Much of the equipment that India decided to buy is now on its way. They are being airlifted in special flights from various ports in Russia and Israel to India

SUJOY MAJUMDAR said...

Prasun Da,

In your blog we often dicuss about the perennial under achievement of India in various spheres including defence.

I think the most important reason behind this is that unlike post 1947 when many average middle class Indians believed that they can work to make India a great nation things are different now.

Many Indians have given up on the belief that India, as an independent country, would rise to greatness. Consequently they are taking the first flight out of India.

Just my views would appreciate your views on this as well.

Thanks, Sujoy

Mayur Manapure said...

And where are they supposed to get spares for them?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To THE HUNDRED: LoLz! If you check through my comments in previous posts last November, I had already revealed all this back then itself. All these are not state secrets & I don’t understand why these ‘desi’ journalists are assuming that thery have stumbled across something great. Critical shortages exist for 110 items of which stocks for only 25 items have been replenished so far from local OEMs. The balance will be fulfilled by next June, especially proximity fuzes & BMCS modules for all types of tube/rocket artillery rounds & disposable LAWs like Mini-Spikes & C-90s. The same goes for the Navy’s & IAF’s hardware reqmts. Adequate stocks of dumb bombs (ODAB/OFAB-types) & Griffin-3 LGBs need to be stockpiled to ensure up to 30 days of warfighting without any shortages. My prediction is that deployments for limited war will be undertaken by India from this March, with the Chicken's Neck Area adjacent Sialkot being the main theatre of operations, i.e. the border that Pakistan refers to as the Working Boundary with Jammu. So, once the snows start melting in the Kashmir Valley, expect the heat to go up several degrees & then I will wish India's armed forces Bon Voyage! Chicken's Neck Area will wrung & wrested away from Pakistan. So watch this space & let not anyone then say I hadn’t foreseen this scenario.

To RAVI_N: Just check out MKU’s website & see what OEMs they own overseas in countries like Germany. That will answer all your queries about MKU’s ‘brand quality’.

To RAHUL: What you’re not aware of is that this year Pakistan did not issue any bustard hunting permits for anyone from the UAE’s royalty & instead issued permits for the Qatari royal family. What does that indicate?

To RAD: Don’t believe such FAKE NEWS emanating from such questionable websites about DRDO-developed APS. In reality, APS is nothing else but a distributed architecture comprisijg four snall-aperture active phased-array radars & a related fire-control system. The hardware is fairly easy to design & build. The complexity is with the targetting algorithm for the high-speed interceptors whose only job is to disrupt the directional flight of inbound projectiles. It follows the same operating philosophy of ASW mortars, i.e. disrupting the inbound HWT by cutting off its fibre-optic wire-guidance cables or destroying the HWT structure through sheer blast effects.

Gessler said...

Nice to know these developments, Prasun ji!

What do you expect to be China's response to such an operation by India? And of the international community at large?

Pratap said...

Israel has operationalised 'Star Wars' Arrow-3 ballistic missile defence system. I'm not casting doubt on Russian tech but we should have opted for Arrow-3 or THAAD instead of S-500. Also, is Rafael David's Sling still on offer to India?

Gessler said...

Another interesting upcoming development -

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2017/01/19/ahead-of-the-visit-of-abu-dhabis-crown-prince-india-and-uae-wi/

Any comments?

Chiru said...

Prusan Da,

Do you know anything about this project at HSL. Look to me like ELINT/SIGINT gathering ship for IN.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/01/revealed-indian-navys-next-advanced-technology-vessel.html

Will it be just one ship in this class or more will follow.

Thanks,

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Will it make sense for IAF to acquire the UAE's fleet of Mirage-2000's?

Anonymous said...

Qatari and UAE M2K have been up for grabs, even IAF tried to grab some but were too expensive. I can't see PAF going for them, unless they come free. It will allow them to do a straight swap for their Mirage III/V, it will be a nice upgrade in capabilities. I hear lots of the ground crew and pilots are from PAF, so their intro into service will be quicker. These probably still have at least 20yrs life. The Emiriti's/Qatari's/Bahraini's/Omani's are always in and out of Pakistan.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/UAE-royal-family%E2%80%99s-bustard-hunting-convoy-attacked-in-Pakistan/article16911837.ece

How much of an impact could 3 m2k sqdns have on the air balance?

Das

Satya said...

How will India respond, if at all, if it is proven that ISI was behind Kanpur train tragedy?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To CHIRU: LoLz! That vessel will be equipped with L-band & X-band active phased-array precision tracking radars for trajectory monitoring of both ballistic missiles & their on-board MIRVs. In short, it will be 1 of 3 such missile tracking vessels, & will not be an ELINT/SIGINT vessel by any stretch of imagination, rest assured. ONLY AFTER all 3 vessels have been commissioned will it be possible to test MIRVs. Nothing classified or secretive about it at all, contrary to what the 'desi' journalists would want you to believe.

Sanjay Sharma said...

Dear Prasunji,
What do you make of Trump inaugural speech? All presidents tone down the rhetoric when they enter office. But not this dude. He even excoriated the Washington establishment at the heart of Washington D. C. LOL!!!
Do you think he'll follow through on his promises?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SANJAY SHARMA & GESSLER: Far more important than President Trump's inaugural speech is the speech delivered yesterday at the 2017 Raisina Dialogue in New Delhi by Admiral Harry B. Harris Jr in which he spoke about how destabilising North Koprea's development of SLBMs are not just for East Asia, but for the IOR as well. Was he hinting towards a Pakistan that is expecting its Made in North Korea SLBMs? Absorb the contents carefully from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9139i3Lv9k

And don't forget that the Admiral was giving this presentation just 2 days before Trump's inauguration. That tells us all a lot. On a sidenote, I wonder if any senior officer from any of India's armed forces can deliver such a presentation in such a forthright & confident manner.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER: I've been busy foe the past few days on a long-range recce mission aimed at finding out the alignments of the 2nd Karakoram Highway (KKH-2) that China will build for Pakistan, this being a 50-metre-wide all-weather highway that enters PoK's Gilgit Region via the Kilik Pass (nearer to Afghanistan's Wakhan Corridor) & enters the Hunza Valley. The existing KKH-1 that's closed for 5 months from November till May every year enters PoK's Baltistan through the Khunjerab Pass. Only after KKH-2 is built will the western land route of CPEC become operational.

As usual the 'desi' media are still clueless about KKH-2. Well....can't ever expect them to be on the ball on such matters.

Pierre Zorin said...

A direct message summarising US stance against Chinese and Chinese influenced policies. It is as though the Admiral verbalised what Indians are scared of saying out loud! Could not have been more clear what the Admiral said. China Pak North Korea axis must be neutralised.

Sanjay Sharma said...

Dear Prasunji, I have a couple of off the topic questions for you that I would love to know your opinion about.

1) What do you think are the chances of India breaking up the way the Soviet Union did? I know you have said that free countries are always more stable than dictatorships like China but what if great powers like the US or China try to break India up by creating internal strife. What do you think the chances are that we can survive such things? I know that India has plenty of experience in fighting insurgencies like that in Punjab or Kashmir or the northeast. But do you think we will be able to survive an effort by a superpower to break us up considering most of the above insurgencies are funded by a minnow like Pakistan?
Do you see such a catastrophe happening?
Again, my apologies for throwing this curveball at you sir. But please give me your valuable analytical opinion.

2) As India becomes wealthier and the standard of living of our people increase do you think such chances of breakup will disappear, say, by 2030-2040?

3) Do you know of any US or Chinese plot to break us up either now or in the past that has ever existed? I know there are many conspiracy theories floating about but I want to know if you came across anything in your research that points to such a plot?

4) Do you think either of them may try to do something like that in the future to avoid competition from a third superpower?

5) What is the status of the maoist threat now? Have they reduced?

Thanks

RAJESH KATHARE said...

Prasun-da when will the kkh-2 start building and get operationalized.what is India doing to prevent ,after all that area of j and k is to be part of India.

Sarabvir Singh said...

Prasunda

On your previous comment on the KKH1 and KKH2, this article might be useful in your search -

http://www.dawn.com/news/1294813

A paragraph in it talks about an alternative route. Excerpts -

ALTERNATIVE ROUTE: The committee proposed another alternative route for the CPEC by connecting Gahkuch to Shandur and to Chitral via Shandur Pass.

“There is a 120-km-long metalled road from Gahkuch to Gulag Muli in Plundar tehsil. The 27-km-long road between Gulag Muli and Shandur Pass is non-metalled. Beyond the Shandur Pass, the 60-km road to Boone is also non-metalled. The 80-km-long section of the road between Boone and Chitral is already metalled. From Chitral onwards we can touch the Swat Motorway and travel on the existing excellent roads in Khyber Pkhtunkhwa to rejoin CPEC routes.

“This alternative route involves construction of less than 90 kilometres of metalled road in not so difficult terrains and the committee recommends that this opportunity should be accorded priority,” the report said.

Anonymous said...

"My prediction is that deployments for limited war will be undertaken by India from this March, with the Chicken's Neck Area adjacent Sialkot being the main theatre of operations, i.e. the border that Pakistan refers to as the Working Boundary with Jammu. So, once the snows start melting in the Kashmir Valley, expect the heat to go up several degrees & then I will wish India's armed forces Bon Voyage! Chicken's Neck Area will wrung & wrested away from Pakistan. So watch this space & let not anyone then say I hadn’t foreseen this scenario. "

Cold start exposed now, pakistan anticipating it and will put its defenses in places.So we should shut our ass,sit tight and work on building economic might.War seems to be prudent option

Kolla

rad said...

HI prasun
my best wishes on your long range recce mission , do arm yourself properly!!

Any way my blood is boiling as the news that chines companies are getting more orders on huge turnkey electrical installations . Are we fucking nuts to allow that to keep happening !!they can shut down India!! with a press of a switch . Already the huwawei guys are entrenched in the telecom sector by giving rock bottom prices as a strategic investment rather than a commercial sale .
My friend who works in telecom says that for any major fault a chines engineer attends the fault and does not let any body else near him .Thats the deal for the rock bottom prices.They dont give access to their software etc. ARE we mad!! like prostitutes letting out nation down for money .ALl of them are trojans>!Screw the WTO , our security is more important, wto does not apply to enemies!.China is fucking the whole world time we got our act to gether WHAT IS THE SOLUTION!!

buddha said...

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2381291.html
Interesting development
......

SUVO said...

PRASUN DA,
Indian Army Issues RFIs For Software-Defined Radios:
http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-to-Replace-Archaic-Battlefield-Communication-With-Advanced-Radios-250025

Expecting another informative article from you about GB.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SARABVIR SINGH: You're missing the point: the objective behind the KKH-2 is to achieve all-year-round connectivity. Which is why the Kilik Pass has been chosen for the corssover. As I had explained earlier, the KKH-1 uses the Khunjerab pass which has to remain closed for 6 months every year. Since the alternative route proposed by that shitty panel makes use of the Shandur Pass, which heads westwards to Chitral & then into Afghanistan! Nowhere does that road lead directly to Chinese territory! But all such data is not being available to the Senate Panel & that's exactly why all those Senate members are complaining about opacity WRT CPEC.

To KOLLA: A typical oversimplistic remark by someone who assumes that wars are fought exactly like they are on Sony Playstations! FYI all wars are cold-started. Be it OP Barbarossa during WW-2, or OPs Gibralter & Grand Slam in 1865, OP Cactus Lily in 1971 or OP Desert Storm in 1991 or OP Badr in 1999, all of them were launched with hardly any advance warning.

Manu Singh said...

Prasunda,

What is the situation of ammunition production in India? After reading the following news, I am a bit surprised as to what kind of ammunition we build and what we export?
https://sputniknews.com/world/201701201049784730-india-russia-visit/

Can't we even make 30mm and 12.7mm ammunition in more than 40 OFB factories, Kalyani Group and so many companies?

Do we make ammo for 7.62mm, 5.56mm, and other varieties?

Kaustav said...

Actually interesting about the 150km Barak-ER SAM and that it uses Indian TATA Vehicle.....Referring to the excellent link from Buddha

Varunn said...

After Ka-226, this was expected. Russia likely to offer joint production of Kamov Ka-62 to India defenceupdate.in/russia-likely-offer-joint-production-kamov-ka-60-helicopter-india/

Anonymous said...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/Trump-warns-scribes-%E2%80%94-the-%E2%80%9Cmost-dishonest-human-beings%E2%80%9D/article17077711.ece

the ERA of HUMAN EXTINCTION has just begun

kolla

Priya said...

Dear Sir

When we read News about India's defence preparedness then ALL we hear is
shortages ; scarcities ; defects ; deficiencies ; weaknessness and Problems

Is there Anything that is Right and Good about Indian Defence

Chiru said...

Prasun Da,

I read reports that INS Vikramaditya will now have an ATM machine. Why would a warship need ATM? What purpose does it serve? Will this not make corrupt practices easier, like office paing cash to junior to do the work while he/she just sits around. Would really like to know your views on this.

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Prasun Sir,

There was a comment by someone here (Pakistani I think), who said there were in fact three routes in the northern area's. Two through G&B and one mostly through KPK. Not sure if all the routes are going to be through different passes. It was to be expected, I would not expect the Chinese to invest in anything that wasn't viable.

@interesting news on Trident missile system: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theresa-refuses-say-knew-trident-9670866

Should we also not be advertising every step, of our systems too?

@what is the current status of the Chabhar port, how is the development going?

@what do you make of the statement by POTUS: buy american, hire american?

Das

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To PRIYA: There's always a method to the madness, as ther saying goes. So what's wronbg with higher defence management in India? For starters, watch this admission by a former Defence Secretary about him being UNAWARE about the Govt of India'sd Rules of Business which says that the Defence Secretary is responsible for the defence of India: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEFtbP6B7kU

As to why a former Defence Secretary is uttering such an admission (thereby turning India & its civil services into the world's laughing stock) is beyond me. It's like saying that even though I have to sit for my physics examination, I'd still rather not refer to or read my prescribed physics textbook!!! When such a mindset prevails, how can one even dream of any modest improvements?

Have you ever heard any 'desi' journalist ever ask a question to any outgoing Chirman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee (CCOSC) exactly hopw many times was he summoned by the PMO for consulations in his capacity as the CCOSC? Or exactly when did India's Cabinet Committee on National Security issue written, on-the-record & detailed WAR DIRECTIVES to the three armed service chiefs via the CCOSC? The answer is NOT EVEN ONCE.

And only yesterday the PM had addressed the Annual Combined Commanders' Conference at the IMA in Dehra Dun. But NOT ONE media outlet in India, not even the PIB, circulated or reported about what the PM had said at the conference. In fact, even the PIB had only 1 event to report about yesterday, as if nothing else happened yesterday. Here, look at this:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/photo.aspx?relid=0

Need I go any further to explain why matters don't progress as envisaged or hoped for?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To CHIRU: FYI every warship has its own mini-mart for selling perishables to the warship's crew complement. Only breakfast, lunch & dinner are served FOC. Everything else has to be paid for. So how exactly will the crew complement source their liquidity reqmts when at sea? Such ATMs should have been installed in warships more than 15 years ago as was the case then with warships of the developed & industrialised countries!

To DAS: China has already selected the Kilik Pass for KKH-2. Construction work has already begun. That's why myu decision to confirm the route alignments, i.e. how exactly will different sections of the highway (being built concurrently) be aligned to ensure continuity. What this means is that road construction has already begun & so there are no ifs or buts WRT KKH-2's planned route & its entrypoint into Pakistan. The alternative route via Gilgit to KPK leads straight to Afghanistan's Wakhan Corridor, not exactly the kind of route to ensure direct connectivity between China & Pakistan.

To MANU SINGH: Why are you so surprised? Here, do read this: Only 53% of the BMP-2s are available for use by the Army as of December 2015 as per the CAG report that has brought out that the Army has a shortage of 47% in holding of BMPs. The main reason for shortfall was the delay in supply of 389 BMPs by Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) which not only adversely affected the operational preparedness of Mechanised Forces but also entailed a minimum extra liability of Rs 270.97 crore due to cost escalation. The current production capacity of the Ordnance Factory Medak is 100 BMPs per year, which includes variants of BMP. The CAG report says that against the authorisation of 2,827 BMPs and 323 BMPS respectively, the Mechanised Infantry and the Corps of Engineers are holding 2521 and 170 numbers of vehicles only. In order to meet the deficiency of BMP vehicles in Mechanised Infantry and Corps of Engineers, the Army HQ placed two indents on Ordnance Factory Medak in 2009 and 2011. Against the indents for 389 numbers of BMPs placed on the OFM in 2009, the delivery for Mechanised Infantry was to be completed by 2011-12 and for Corps of Engineers by 2013-14. The CAG, however, found that only 179 numbers were only delivered till January 2015. Further, against production capacity of 600 BMPs (100 BMPs per year x 6 years) OFB could produce only 265 BMPs during the last six years resulting in shortfall of 55%. Out of the total number of 2,691 BMPs held, 1,025 were due for overhaul up to 2014-15. As a result only 1,666 vehicles were effectively available, which indicates that only 53% of the authorized vehicles were available for use.

And now the real shocker: while the IA has 61 regiments of MBTs, the number of Mechanised Infantry Battalions is only 26!!! Elsewhere in the world, the ratio is 2:1, i.e. for every MBT Regiment there are 2 Mech Inf Battalions, plus integral attack helicopter squadrons. And can you imagine how lopsided the IA's ORBAT is?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: LoLz! To me the most important cause of this is the over-abundance of Netas who since the mid-1960s have tirelessly been chanting the mantra of poverty eradication. Don't be surprised if India hosts the highest number of politicians who are all for poverty eradication & yet who are seemingly loathe to make good on their verbal promises & mantras. Have you ever come across any politician who can give you a detailed roadmap or methodology for even poverty reduction, leave alone poverty eradication? Instead, you will always keep coming across politicians of all hues (including from the ruling coalition & its PM) who will lay claim to the status of 'Robin Hood', i.e. promising to snatch money from the rich to gove to the poor. Even the present-day PM has fallen into this irresistable trap, when one knows only too well that all such promises are mere talking-in-the-air & are never implementable. Had they been implementable, then by now farmers' suicides would have become a thing of the past.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Interview of Hein Kiessling, author of the recent book on the ISI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULCwujLROdc

China’s White Paper on Asia-Pacific & India: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE33ZNzPMGY

Jay,Kerala said...

Here is TOI on why PM's address&interaction were not covered in media

There was no official word on the military deliberations in the backdrop of the Election Commission warning the government that the conference should not be used as a platform to make any public speech or announcement that may "affect" the electoral process in poll-bound Uttarakhand. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-may-soon-get-a-tri-service-chief/articleshow/56710710.cms

Question:1)Is it possible to install fibre-optic two-way data-link on Nag like Spike-MR for lock on after launch precision strike?Is there a project to upgrade NaG ATGM into an NLOS form like Israeli Jumper?
2)Barak-8/LRSAM project means end of the road for Akash SAM except current state or will Akash be upgraded with terminal seekers&made more compact like Spider SAM?What I mean to ask is will Akash Project continue or is it being discarded with LR/MRSAM?

Unknown said...

Dear Prasoon

In so far as demonetization is concerned the objective has been very well explained by the economist S Gurumurthy. In essence the sizable amount of cash in the economy was chasing non productive avenues like real estate, gold and luxury products. As a result real estate and gold faced asset appreciation that got reflected in the 8.4% growth from 2004 to 2011. unfortunately this growth yielded total 2.7 million jobs in this period! to allow this money to chase productive assets demonetization was done to siphon off the entire cash in the Banking channel, reduce the interest rates and inflation, direct the cash to productive uses and improve the quality of economic growth. Further this money shall be channelized through MUDRA (budget increased to 47000 crore from earlier 24000 crore) scheme to the micro, medium and small enterprises which employs more than 11 crore people and till now receives money at usurious rates of 24% to 365% p.a. Hope if this concept is clear to me, am sure it would be clear to those who took this decision. Rest assured the money in the Banking system will not be transferred to the bank accounts of poor just for the sake of it and to create a Robin Hood effect. The reference to black money, corruption etc by the ruling dispensation was to make this decision palatable and take on the opposition parties. Hence i beg to difference to your comment @ 6:06 AM; 23 Jan 2017

Regards


Kunal L. Kaistha

Pierre Zorin said...

poverty eradication - a great slogan. Remember 1970s used to say Garibi Hatao. Poverty has now been completely eradicated - naturally in the ruling class! Show me one Politician anywhere in the world who is poor.

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
Why two different guns 45 caliber Dhanush and 52 caliber ATAGS are proposed for induction. Won't one do?
What are the advantages and disadvantages? Why two calibers?

Varunn said...

sir, the no. of mech inf battalions in th IA is atleast 46, including 26 from mechanised infantryy regiment & another 21, atleast, from the brigade of the guards.
there could be more, since force accretion in an on going process.
but, yes, the ratio is still not even 1:1.
but, i wonder whether india really needs 120 mech battalions.
what i think is some heavy mech units are required, equipped with heavy AFVs.
For this purpose some existing infantry battalions could be converted to mech role.

Sankhadeep Mazumder said...

Sir, what's the status of our AMCA? Is it realistic to expect technology demonstrator flights by 2018 / 2019?

Manu Singh said...

Prasunda,

Can you please explain the terms such as regiment, battalion and division in terms of mechanised and artillery forces? How many tanks/guns per regiment/battalion/division are there in Indian Army?

Moreover, where does this concept of regiment fit into the forces? Is it same as British concept of 2 battalions per regiment?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VARUNN: Not true. Here's the braekdown:

1st Battalion (former 1st Bn, The Madras Regiment)
2nd Battalion (former 1st Bn, Jat Light Infantry)
3rd Battalion (former 1st Bn, 8 Gorkha Rifles)
4th Battalion (former 1st Bn, Sikh Regiment)
5th Battalion (former 14th Bn, Kumaon Regiment)
6th Battalion (former 1st Bn, Garhwal Rifles)
7th Battalion (former 1st Bn, Dogra Regiment
8th Battalion (former 7th Bn, Punjab Regiment)
9th Battalion (former 7th Bn, The Grenadiers)
10th Battalion (former 20th Bn, Maratha Light Infantry)
11th Battalion (former 18th Bn, Rajputana Rifles)
12th Battalion (former 8th Battalion, Parachute Regiment, previously 16th Bn, Mahar Regiment)
13th Battalion (former 18th Bn, Rajput Regiment)
14th Battalion (former 16th Bn, Jammu & Kashmir Rifles)
15th Battalion, 16th Battalion, 17th Battalion, 18th Indomitables Battalion (raised on March 1, 1983), 19th Battalion, 20th Battalion, 21st Battalion, 22nd Battalion, 23rd Battalion, 24th Battalion (former 20th Bn, Rajput Regiment), 25th Battalion (former 1st Brigade of Guards Battalion), 26th Battalion. 4 more Battalions to be raised in future.

2,827 BMP-2s and 323 BMP-1/2s respectively are sanctioned by the MoD for the Mechanised Infantry and the Corps of Engineers. Of these, only 2,521 and 170 have been delivered. If you do the math, it will reveal exactly how many Mech Inf battalions are there with the IA.

To VED: First do watch this report on the IA's field/rocket artillery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6pVTFj-ZS4

You will see there that the Rudras have been retrofitted with Engine Air Particle Separators (EAPS) sourced from US-based DONALDSON FILTRATION Solutions.

Chiru said...

Prasun Da

Can you do a post on ORBATs of Pakistan, China and Indian armies in as much detail as you can, Please.

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
The Dhanush is the first indigenous effort to make a 155mm gun. ATAGS is its next step of evolution. This is what I can understand. But both will be inducted very close to one other. Both are great guns. But do we need two different calibre.?

Ram Bharadwaj said...

Prasun,

What happens to the 8 TEJAS aircraft which were produced as Limited Series Production (LSP) after FOC is achieved?

Will they still be used as test bed's for future upgrades or will they be upgraded to IOC or FOC standards and join squadron service?

Unknown said...

Prasun sir,
The Brigade of Guards is also fully mechanized barring about three battalions that are in dedicated anti-tank roles. So, thats another 17 battalions of mechanized infantry

Vijay said...

Dear Sir
Please answer my question

I want to know whether BM 21 or PINAKA and SMERCH have any role or Utility on the
LINE OF CONTROL

Or whether Rocket Artillery is usefull only in the plains

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN/KUNAL: As I had explained earlier to VARUNN, one needs to do the math for obtaining an accurate answer. So take the number 2,827 as the number of BMP-2s available today & then find out how many BMP-2s are serving with each Mech Inf Battalion & that will give us all the total number of operational Mech Inf battalions. There is just no need to engage in assumptions, speculations & conjecture.

To VIJAY: If MBRLs had no utility along the LoC, then why were they put to use during OP Vijay in 1999?

To VED: The Dhanush-45 is ready for service induction now, whereas the ATAGS is still another 4 years away from entering the user-trials stage.

Rushil Anand said...

http://www.janes.com/article/67154/drdo-outlines-future-mbt-requirements


Prasun da

What is your opinion of this report? So basically are they saying that the FMBT will be based on Arjun only?

Varunn said...

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/units/30-Guards.html
sir, see the link above..this shows that there are 19 guards battalion, all mechanised.
1-2 years ago 21 guards was raised in bhusawal.
2827/26 is 108 BMPs per battalion..it is too high a no. for one unit.
2827/44 (26 mech & 19 guards...ie, the no. of units operational till a few years ago) is 64..a feasible no.

plus 26 mech & 21 guards are new raisings..govt had sanctioned 3 new mech units & 6 armour units a few year ago.

I have no doubt that IA has atleast 46 operational mech units, but, yes, the no. of BMPs they hold could be less than the authorised strength.

Ravi said...

Dear Sir

The Pakis are claiming Another Missile Test

This time its a SSM Ababeel -- 2200 KM Range ( Whatever )

http://www.dawn.com/news/1310452/pakistan-conducts-first-flight-test-of-ababeel-surface-to-surface-missile

Now Please tell us the REALITY of this Test

Looks like Another Fake test

Gessler said...

Prasun ji, Pak just tested the Ababeel MRBM, which they claim is MIRV-capable.

Your comments?

Srinivasa Nanduri said...

HI Prasun,

Is it true that Gun Carriage Factory is making a prototype of Wheeled (MGS) version of 155x45 calibler Howtizer, based on Dhanush. Does any India DPSU have capability to do that? And what are the chances of India acquiring L&T / GIAT proposed CAESAR MGS?

And today's test of Ababeel done by Pakistan, pak media is talking of MIRVs. So has China provided a newer tech missile and MIRV tech to pak to counter and pin India?

Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri

Anonymous said...

Pakistan test fired ababeel missile with MIRV warhead and 2200km range,now what is your reaction dear Prasun? VINOD KUMAR

Sankhadeep Mazumder said...

Prasun, this time you have to answer me!! Do you think India can carry out an offensive operation to seize Pakistan's entire nuclear arsenal? Does India have the capability to provide close air support needed for such a mission? Do you see India and US ( probably ) jointly going for such a mission in the near future? Hypothetically, how difficult would such an operation be?

Anonymous said...

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2017/01/24/donald-trump-set-to-call-indian-prime-minister-narendra-modi/

sir what do u think outcome will be from this call?

regards
Ron

Anonymous said...

Hello Sir,

What do you make of this new test by pakland:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1310452

Ababeel has a maximum range of 2,200 kilometres and is capable of delivering multiple warheads using Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicle (MIRV) technology, an ISPR press release added.

das

Ved said...

Dear Prasun,
Can you share the actual design of Arihant if you have access to?

Further pls let us know the progress on indigenous sub launched HWT.

Harsh Kumar said...

Hi Prasun da,

Please see the news about 2200km SSM test in pakistan with MIRV.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1310452/pakistan-conducts-first-flight-test-of-ababeel-surface-to-surface-missile

is it true that they have MIRV technology or again a bluff for domestic consumption.

regards,
Harsh

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To VARUNN: Like I stated before, the math provides all answers. The no of infantry-carrying BMP-2s per mech inf battalion is 70. Add to this the specialised vehicles like armoured ambulance, comms relay vehicle, command post vehicle & CMT plus the EME's holdings of specialist vehicles like AAD & AERV. Therefore, under no circumstances can the IA possess 46 mech inf battalions. It's no use arguing against what is an exact science & no amount of dubious weblinks or resources can be put bforth as undeniable material evidence.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER & All Those Curious About Ababeel: It is always best to go to the source & here it is: https://www.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-press_release&id=3705#pr_link3705

It says only the missile was tested, & not any MIRV as such. The Iraqis will be hopping mad about this, since this constitutes a branding copyright infringement, i.e. Iraq during the reign of Saddam Hussein had developed the Ababil-50 & Ababil-100 ballistic missiles for use as rocket artillery.

Pratap said...

Sir, what led to our defeat in Battle of Chawinda in 1965? It was the largest tank battle since WW2 and we lost despite being more powerful and numerically superior. Future operation to conquer Sialkot will be very similar. Hope Indian Army has learned its lessons.

BROWN DESI said...

Couldn't agree more with the admiral.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/oil-and-water-why-senior-military-officers-must-not-dabble-in-politics-after-retirement/articleshow/56756321.cms

BROWN DESI said...

Descriptive Video for ATAGS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKZ8HTDHCAs

Regards;

Brown Desi

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BROWN DESI: Looks like both Dhanush-52 & ATAGS will be paraded together. Watch the full dress-rehearsal from 0.0029 till 0.0054.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VXqN3sSxa8

To PRATAP: It wasdn't a defeat, but a stalemate or slugfest due to missed opportunities. Firstly, war directives weren't issued properly & on time by IA HQ at that time. While the IA's armoured formations were in their forward concentration areas by late July, war did not break out till September 1 & during the period in-between everyone was killing time & those who were mobilised had to revert back to their peacetime duties attending various courses, only to be recalled urgently again on September 1. But most importabtly, there was an acute shortage of maps for various formations & over & above that the maps were hopelessly outdated.

To VED: The actual design of the SSBN & SSN for the IN are IPR data & since they are proprietary, they are safely locked up in IN HQ.

To SANKHADEEP MAJUMDAR: Even before one decides to strike, one must know where to strike & how to strike. All this requires a huge amount of ISTR data & some of it in real-time. Collection of such data in beyond India's means.

To SRINIVASA NANDURI: If OFJ is working on such a project, it would have been shown in that India Today programme.

To RAM BHARADWAJ: The LSPs will all be used for flight testing of new software upgrades to the digital flight-control computer.

Thehundered said...

Are these reports true Prasun? Has there been an order for 464 T-90MS?

http://www.janes.com/article/67082/india-to-deploy-newly-ordered-t-90ms-tanks-along-border-with-pakistan

"The Indian Army (IA) plans to deploy about 464 newly ordered T-90MS main battle tanks (MBTs) along India's western and northern borders with Pakistan, military officials told IHS Jane's on 19 January."

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/india-wants-defensive-upgrades-for-its-new-russian-tanks

The Indian Army wants the advanced protection systems on the 464 T-90MS tanks ordered for $2 billion in November 2016, said an Indian Army official.

"The new active generation protection system is one of the most advanced in the world; India could do well to acquire the same in whatever mode rather than going in for a mix-and-match approach as in the past," says Rahul Bhonsle, a retired Indian Army brigadier and defense analyst.

The active protection system in question is a tank-mounted radar that detects the launch of an antitank missile and then engages an interceptor to destroy the incoming round or deflect its trajectory.

So far the tanks have been dependent mainly on the armor of their outer shells. At the moment, no tank in Indian Army service has an active protection system."

Thehundered said...

Some videos of Houthis using ATGM's with devastating effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwI3QMlqAGQ#t=381.644058

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcRgGctYwJc

Prakash N said...

Hello Sir,
In the Japanese Soryu submarines the AIP has been replaced with powerful Lithium-ion batteries. While considering the recent information we are getting that we had some advancement in developing powerful Lithium-ion fuel cells with a TATA-DRDO joint research which ended up in development of a prototype passenger vehicle(Bus) with Li-ion power pack. Have we done any work on the Submarine front with Li-ion packs so far to replace AIPs?

Defence said...

Is it true that Gun Carriage Factory is making a prototype of Wheeled (MGS) version of 155x45 calibler Howtizer, based on Dhanush. Does any India DPSU have capability to do that? And what are the chances of India acquiring L&T / GIAT proposed CAESAR MGS?

And today's test of Ababeel done by Pakistan, pak media is talking of MIRVs. So has China provided a newer tech missile and MIRV tech to pak to counter and pin India?