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Sunday, June 10, 2018

When & How Religiosity-Inspired Distortions & Bigotry Gained Ground In Jammu & Kashmir


The roots of religiosity-inspired civil disobedience within the Kashmir Valley of India’s state of Jammu & Kashmir (J & K) can be traced back to the mid-1980s, when a proxy war between the overwhelmingly Sunni Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the overwhelmingly Shia-majority Islamic Republic of Iran was being waged on a global scale. It was at this time that Pakistan’s Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence two distinct Jihadi Tanzeems—Harakat-ul-Mujahedeen (HuM) headed by Fazlur Rehman Khalil and the Harkat ul-Jihad al-Islami (HuJI) headed by Qari Saifullah Akhtar—that were the principal suppliers of Jihadi Mujahideens (sourced from Pakistan’s Punjab province’s eastern and southern areas) destined for Afghanistan. By 1989, the JuM and HuJi were vectored towards J & K by the ISI, with ideological support emanating from Pakistan’s Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) party. This is clearly borne out by the videoclip below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfYuWybXFas
By late 1990, the Pakistan Army as a whole had been taught to believe that if a non-nuclear Pakistan could win a low-intensity conventional war against the nuclear WMD-armed USSR, then the same kind of success could very much be achieved against India as well. While studying at the United States Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, then Col Ashfaq Pervez Kayani had written a strategy paper dealing with how the Afghan and allied Mujahideen from across the globe defeated the USSR and how Pakistan had played its hand in managing the war in such a manner that it did not provoke a total war with the USSR. He later studied for a year at the Hawaii-based Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies, and it was there that a now Brig Kayani used to ‘educate’ his fellow coursemates about Pakistan’s plan to capture J & K by applying the lessons learnt from the Afghan Jihad. All this has since been explained in greater detail in this book:

Pakistan’s grand designs for wresting J & K away from India received a shot in the arm in the early 1990s with the outbreak of the civil war in Yugoslavia, when countries like Iran, and Malaysia in particular, decided to get involved in total violation of UN-mandated sanctions. Malaysia’s gameplan was to finance the armed insurrections of the Muslim  Bosnians and Christian Croats against the Slavic Serbians, hoping that after the end of the civil war, the newly-independent countries of Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia would reward Malaysia with lucrative post-war reconstruction projects worth tens of billions of US$. Consequently, Malaysia’s then Prime Minister, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, contacted Tan Sri Eric Chia Eng Hock, Chairman of publicly-listed Perwaja Steel, to mobilise RM3 billion for financing the civil war effort in favour of Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia. While this was done, Malaysia had one problem: how to source and supply weapons to these two countries. This is where the ISI stepped in not only with logistical expertise, but also with manpower supply options.
Accordingly, Lt Gen Javed Nasir (https://tribune.com.pk/story/256199/islamabad-refuses-to-hand-over-ex-isi-chief-to-bosnia-tribunal/) who served as DG of ISI from March 14, 1992 till May 13, 1993, did the following: 1) He merged the HuM and HuJI to form the Muzaffarabad-based Harkat ul-Ansar. 2) He created two new training camps for this Tanzeem, with one at Zhawar Kili near Khost, and another at a 200-yard by 200-yard mud fortress along a river basin in Asadabad, Kunar province, where Pakistan-origin cadres of the HuA, along with mercenaries from Dagestan, Chechnya and Uzbekistan were trained in guerrilla warfare techniques that were to be applied inside both J & K and rump Yugoslavia. 3) He used the finances provided by Malaysia for running these two camps, as well as for procuring the NORINCO-developed and Dr A Q Khan Research Labs-assembled Red Arrow-8 (Baktar Shikan) ATGMs and Pakistan Ordnance Factories-produced RPG-7 LAWs meant for Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia. In addition, few thousand RPG-7 rounds and a few hundred launchers ended up with the HuA for use inside J & K.
Even after Lt Gen Javed Nasir’s dismissal from the Pakistan Army, these activities continued under the stewardship of succeeding ISI DGs Lt Gen Javed Ashraf Qazi (from 1993 till 1995), Lt Gen Ehsan ul Haq (from October 7, 2001 till October 6, 2004) and Lt Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani (from October 7, 2004 till November 27, 2007). In addition, as part of a quid pro quo, Pakistan was rewarded by Malaysia through contracts being placed for the supply of Baktar Shikan ATGMs and Anza Mk.1 (Chinese QW-1) shoulder-launched MANPADS for the Malaysian Army.
However, Malaysia ended up as the nett loser in this whole affair, since the expected post-war reconstruction contracts from Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia never surfaced, which in turn led to Perwaja Steel becoming bankrupt, and Tan Sri Eric Chia being declared a traitor and scamster by the largely ignorant Malaysian citizens. More about all this can be read here:
I came to know about the behind-the-scenes siphoning off of Perwaja Steel’s financial assets (on the instructions of Tun Dr Mahathir) sometime in mid-2007 when I had a chance encounter with Tan Sri Eric Chia at the Sheraton Subang Hotel in Malaysia’s Selangor State, during which the Tan Sri at last revealed to me the real story behind Perwaja Steel’s financial woes. Like a true patriot, he never went public with all that he knew about this sordid affair for as long as he was alive.
As for the HuM and Fazlur Rehman Khalil, the former is now known as the Ansar-ul-Umma, and is part of the Muzaffarabad-based United Jihad Council, while the latter was mainstreamed way back at the beginning of this decade. Since then, both, along with the JI, have been deeply involved in creating religiosity-inspired faultlines inside J & K, details of which are given below.

90 comments:

Hardik Thanki said...

Hi Prasunji

What according to you is the best course of action in Jammu & Kashmir today that the government can take to calm down the situation in the valley.

Biswajit Pattanaik said...

Prasunda,
This post is an eye opener. Thank you for this post PrasunDa Da. Some serious shit is going on for a long time in J&K specially the Kashmir Valley.
I myself happened to felt this kind of radicalisation being done to small kids of Baramulla when my father's unit was posted there.
Very sad to see this kind of thing going on in Kashmir.
Is government, army or any other organization doing something to counter this situation?

Deb said...

Exotic, thanks for this information dada.

varun said...

sir,
I want to ask about something completely off topic.
According to IMF data, the size of the british economy in 2017 was approx $ 2.624 tn, but in 2018 it has jumped to aprrox $ 2.9 tn. This represents an economic growth of more that 10%, but the british growth is around 2% only.
The same is the case with french economy.
Could you say a word about this ?

thank you

Sanjay said...

Kashmiris and Pakistanis are very clear in their mind about what they want

It is only we Indians who are confused

We are still talking of things like alienation; winning hearts and minds
Autonomy etc

rad said...

hi prasun
pse explain the differences between the arudhra and the elm 2084. I seem to b e confused thinking that both were the same and the arudhra was screwdriver tech, i have to commend the drdo for making state of the art AESA radar whose algorithm are difficult etc

especially the C4 component .

how is the MOTR of isro comparable with the arudhra . is it supposed to be tougher to design the MOTR ?? .

how capable isro will be to make a vhf -uhf aesa radar with crazy detection ranges of stealth targets? i believe the the chinese have made them as well the Israelis

we can use the hf oth radar along with low band radar to seek out stealth with data fusion rather than spending billions on a not veru stealthy pakfa !!


Ajay said...

Sir ji

We should be more worried about
The JAGUAR crashes than the Kashmiri
Radicalism

Prranshu Yadav said...

Great post 👍 I obviously don't know much about that time but to me India's relations with Malaysia seem quite good now, with both countries even cooperating in maintainence of their Su-30 fleets and India supplying Su-30 components to Malaysia... Was the relationship friendly even back than or has it only recently improved?

BTW, I saw the photos of latest Agni-5 test and I just have one question. Why on earth did they paint the missile in camouflage scheme when its designed to sit inside a canister??? What purpose does that serve? Although I must admit it looks good in those colours... But if they did it for looks they could just have painted a potrait of a bollywood actress on it. LOL!

shukant chatrath said...

Sir ji, Your thoughts on this. although it is not a reliable source but the point made is a little wierd.

http://idrw.org/indian-army-doesnt-seem-impressed-by-hal-proposed-indian-multirole-helicopter-imrh-report/

But shouldn't the commanders understand that first it is prudent to learn hot to walk first then think about running.

HAL with all its short comings aside they are finally understanding how to make conventional rotor craft like the Dhruv, LCH, LUH etc from this converting to the IMRh in its current form seems a logical step.

And if the army wants a US Raider type aircraft shouldn't they first try it with a smaller platform rather than jumping head first in the deep end.

Sikorsky the pioneer in helicopters first made the X2 platform then they proposed the S97 concept.

Here the commanders expect to produce a comparable aircraft without doing there homework
They are frankly acting like children who want the toys other kids have and are not satisfied with what they have.

PS: I am just a normal citizen of this country and not an esteemed personality like yourself in defense matters so please pardon my incoherence in this matter.

just_curious said...

Prasun,

Eye opener!!.. question is what was the India Govt doing while this was happening .. such blatant motives shud not have escaped even those who are blind.. I always had this question why did the present govt stop midway arresting the whole of the hurriyat lot??why is that @#* geelani & his ilk still roaming scot free?

- http://idrw.org/indian-army-doesnt-seem-impressed-by-hal-proposed-indian-multirole-helicopter-imrh-report/ .. shouldn't India Opt for the kamov 92 in co development mode? or will India join the US in its FVL initiative as it has been offered the same.. why does HAL try to be oversmart when its the IAF who are its only clients and HAL does not bother to check with them .. last time it was the advanced hawk...the article clearly states that the IAF has a futuristic vision while HAL is stuck at replicating the Mi's taht too when IAF/IA have already bought a new lot of almost 200 of them..

Kaustav said...

Lateral Entry for IAS will root out entrenched systems and bring fresh energy.

The current recruitment is only for 10 Jt.Secretary level posts, what would be a game changer if it is done on a regular basis, a larger scale. It will root out entrenched interests and ivory tower attitudes. Lateral Entry from State Civil Services, other civil services, technical specialists, retiring defence service officers and corporate executives with relevant experience, discipline, better work ethics and drive can bring about change in project execution and management

Anonymous said...

This leads to a question. Why doesn't India declare a war if armed people from across the border infiltrate. Isn't it a violation of convention (I don't remember the name)? Terrorists are trained by the Pakistani army so they must be considered as regular troops. If china does the same thing I think that wolwo have led to war.

Tushar

Kaustav said...

Political appointees are not a new phenomenon either in India or the American system and the bureaucracy has been politicised for long anyway

Just_curious said...

Prasun,

another data theft story...http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/06/chinese-hackers-stole-boatload-of.html
What baffles me is how are the Chinese able to break in @ alarming frequency into highly secured domains.. And why is the oh!so touchy US not taking any action on this...

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To HARDIK THANKI & BISWAJIT PATTANAIK: Let me answer that with an analogy: if an epidemic spreads in my immediate neighbourhood, then I cannot be satisfied with just insulating my dwelling inside a poluthene bag & hoping that everything will be alright. I will also be reqd to eradicate the epidemic from my immediate & extended enighbourhood. So in J & K’s case, since the negativities are all from external sources, India will have to improve the neighbourhood by wresting away PoK & Chicken’s Neck area, from where all the negativities have been & are being exported. Only that will make the Kashmir Valley troublefree, and will forever do away with the intrusive & repetitive security cordons & searches by security forces that cause much pain & heartburn among the natives of J & K. In other words, get rid of the existing defensive practices & mindsets & think about offensives. Secondly, unless the JKLF-related mass-murderers of the late 1980s & early 1990s are brought to justice, the minority Kashmiri Oandits will never be able to put faith in India’s writ of law & they will continue to languish as internally displaced citizens. Lastly, it should be made clear to the Valley’s irreconsilables (APHC) that if they don’t shape-up, then they will be subjected to the same type of checks & security-related practices of the type prevalent in Xinjiang, which is explained here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXRg31WFW9c

To VARUN: That’s because of money-inflows through financial institutionals in the post-Brexit era that ared invested through the stock markets.

To RAD: The visuals of the EL/M-2084 Arudhra & the DRDO-developed Arudhra themselves explain it all. MOTR is for tracking space debris. VHF/UHF radars can easily be developed by DRDO & there are no insurmountable technological/industrial challenges faced by the DRDO.

To AJAY: The time for worrying has long gone. It is time to act by immediately commencing the re-engining programme.

To PRRANSHU YADAV: Yes, relations have traditionally been good, but from the late 1990s onwards as the Asian financial crisis dawned, Tun Dr mamathir became hostile to the US & at the same time he started harbouring ambitions of becoming someone similar to what President Erdogan is today. India on the other hand was rapidly warming up to the US, while givinh more priority to Singapore & Indonesia. What greatly Dr Mahathir by 2001 was the commencement by the IN of OP Sagittarius in the Malacca Straits along with the US & Singapore. This is what the OP was about:

http://www.thehindu.com/2004/09/08/stories/2004090806701200.htm

So, in order to show Malaysia, displeasure at such a state of affairs, it resorted to some needling of India by staging such incidents:

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/diplomacy/story/20030324-indian-it-professionals-harassed-in-malaysia-enraged-india-plans-economic-retaliatory-measures-793287-2003-03-24

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1145864

The Agni-V BM must have been randomly selected from a pre-production batch & hence the camopuglage colour.

To SHUKANT CHATRATH & JUST_CURIOUS: I*n reality, the IA.IN & IAF have not been able to agree on the MTOW of the IMRH. The IA wants a 16-tonne helicopter, while the IN wants a 10-tonne machine & the IAF a 12-tonne helicopter. And that’s why the full-scale mock-up shown at Aero India 2017 was shown as a civilian variant. So, unless all 3 armed services are able to agree on a common design with no major deviations, the IMRH will rever take off. But since it will be meant for catering for future reqmts, the IMRH must have FBW flight-controls, as well as much higher cruising speeds. And such options are available only from the US & Russia. That’s why I had suggested the co-development of the Kamov Ka-92, instead of wasting money on the FGFA.

To TUSHAR: That’s because India’s ‘netas’ have never displayed any strategic visioning nor are they displaying anything like it now.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/india-uzbekistan-to-route-their-trade-though-chabahar/article24127666.ece?homepage=true

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/india-uzbekistan-to-route-their-trade-though-chabahar/article24127666.ece?homepage=true

Russia's Missing ISIS Brides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCusipcUhIA

Iran’s New Centrifuges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGa4m36C4XM

https://nypost.com/2018/06/09/iran-admits-it-protected-al-qaeda-terrorists-before-9-11/

Now slowly the facts are emerging. And soon it will also emerge that it was Iran that struck a faustian bargain with the US when it released OBL's first wife from detention just so that shw could reveal to the US the Abbottabad hideout of OBL, which in turn led to OP Neptune's Spear--which is what I had stated way back in 2012.

Gessler said...

VMT for the previous answers and this amazing new thread, Prasun ji! Regarding your previous reply to one of the posters above about the IMRH...I have to say, it appears IN wants an S-70, IAF wants an S-92/H225M and IA wants something bigger than a Mi-17 but smaller than a CH-53 Sea Stallion. What does IA Aviation Corps want with a 16-ton transport helo? Why do they think having a 12-ton helo like H225M with a capacity to carry between 20 to 30 infantrymen is not enough? Can you throw some light on IA thinking here?

Also, EUROSATORY 2018 has started. Can we expect any coverage of this expo on the blog, sir?

shukant chatrath said...

Thank you sir for clearing that out.

I remember quite a while back you had suggested options for upgrading the dhruv into a compound helicopter (ie main rotor for lift and pusher propeller for acceleration) along the lines of the S97 in collaboration with an American company.

Now since the commanders are interested in something like that shouldn't HAL think on the lines of that as a technological demo.

shukant chatrath said...

Found It Sir, Correction the LUH not on the dhruv, but if it worked on one cant we scale it up for any size we require.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2016/09/homegrown-luh-takes-to-skies.html

Hardik Thanki said...

Thanks Prasunji for your reply

I would be grateful if you were to point out possible solutions to Indian Army Rifle procurement program. I think best think the Indian Armu could do is to adopt IWI Galil Ace Rifles as they come in 5.56 Nato, 7.62 Kruz & 7.62 Nato. IWI Negav with 7.62 Nato caliber can also solve army's squad machine gun requirement and with a potential $4-5 billion worth of contracts India can get a favourable deal from Israel including local production.

Thanks & Regards
Hardik Thanki

Ajay said...

Dear Sir

Pakistan's economic problems are only
Getting worse every week

Yet we see no reduction in their Arrogance as far as India and Kashmir are concerned

What is the reason for their delusional and arrogant behaviour

Is it because Islam teaches them that Muslims are superior to non muslims

Prranshu Yadav said...

As per current situation, how long do you think re-engining of jaguars will take to commence?

just_curious said...

Prasun ,, your views.. on the following pls ..

http://www.defencenews.in/article/How-Christian-missionaries-are-funding-naxals,-their-urban-friends-to-%E2%80%98BREAK-INDIA%E2%80%99-558778


panic said...

Sir , Countries like Bangladesh & Indonesia are monitoring Friday Sermon's given in Mosque's.

Don't you think J&K State Govt should be doing the same or they should have done it Decades ago???



Intolerant Person said...

1.Why can't those folks like Geelani be thrown into jail if GOI once gets upper hand morally amongst Kwshmiri population?
2.I read somewhere that China is upgrading their Nuke tech to new level.Perhaps at par with that of US or Russia.How much advanced are our nukes?
3.What is the biggest capability of F-35?Ofcourse it isn't it's stealth I guess.
Thanks.BTW,Great article sir.

Anonymous said...

IAI Unveils Barak-MX Modular Air Defense System

http://www.israeldefense.co.il/he/node/34538

Annon

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

China's way of pacifying its Uighur Muslim communities & list of Uighur detention centres spread throughout Xinjiang:

https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang/where-are-the-re-education-camps-77f3084bc2c4

https://uhrp.org/news/mapping-china’s-xinjiang-internment-camps-uyghur-and-kazakh-muslims

https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang/list-of-re-education-camps-in-xinjiang-%E6%96%B0%E7%96%86%E5%86%8D%E6%95%99%E8%82%B2%E9%9B%86%E4%B8%AD%E8%90%A5%E5%88%97%E8%A1%A8-99720372419c

https://twitter.com/shawnwzhang/status/978717585393905665?lang=en

News about this trickled out after Chinese security agencies mistook some Kazakhstan citizens to be Uighurs & had them incarcerated in these camps!

Mohan said...

Prasun sir,
Govt decision to make lateral entry in civip sector
Is it good or bad?

Enlightened said...

Another of those craps: Just_Curious I hope you are also aware that missionaries are also funding every Hindu couple to give up kamasutra and adopt a missionary position? No? What a shame! Christian missionaries have so much time on hand to destroy the world why worry about Pakistan and China!

bhoutik said...

*was there any israeli help with respect to s.korea's hyunmoo 2? i see resemblance with the LORA.

*seeing news about the israeli Rampage missile. air launched ballistic / quasi-ballistic missiles seem to be garnering increasing interest. any plans in India towards developing similar system? is there a need?

*are the IN deployments in the south atlantic continuing or have they ceased. don't see the IN's twitter handle post any news about it.

*has the INS Chakra undertaken anti-submarine patrols along the southeastern and southwestern parts of the Indian Ocean?

*have the OTHR-B stations come up at INS Kadamba and at Project Varsha?

*private sector firms that were proposing semicon. foundries - couldn't they be roped in for the proposed GaN foundry at IISc?

*is there an ethnic angle in what happened in Assam? coming so close on the heels of the incident with Sikh community. social media has been a low cost tool by paki groups for a while. can there be a chinese/paki angle here?

*https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-chinese-company-selling-iranian-sniper-gear-around-the-world

*another islamist assassination - https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2018/06/11/publisher-shahzahan-bachchu-shot-dead-in-munshiganj

Harsh said...

Sir, a few questions:
1.just saw the pics of Indian army bm-21 grad on new trucks. Is it true that rockets with enhanced range of 40km were procured for them. Upgrade suggests that the army isn't planning their phase out for atleast another 2 decades.

2. What encourages scamgress party to raise rafale scam bogy again and again. They have already decided to raise this issue in all coming state elections and 2019 general elections.

3. If modi goes out of power in 2019 then rafale numbers will stay at 36 because the congress govt will not place further orders for a tainted aircraft.

4. Any chance of restoring the mig-29k which slipped from runway at a cost like 5-10 million dollars.

ashish gautam said...

Sir what things does the upgrade package of sindhukesari involve? How about AIP? Changes in stealthyness? Engine etc..

buddha said...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4akFLFq3b-g
Watch live: Trump holds press conference after summit with Kim Jong Un
Sit US president seems impressing hus attitude of dealing journalists.
One more thing he mentioned he as a businessman knows the instinct of deal where he is good at it.
I like this part most.
What is your take on the whole episode.

Rajesh Mishra said...

If the world Muslamic population becomes equal to the world Parsis population, then will it be that the Muslamics will become as much dynamic and progressive like the Parsis.

SUJOY MAJUMDAR said...

PrasunDa,

Ajay Kumar who is secretary - Dept of Defence Production gave an interview today.

http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2018/06/12/innovation-is-going-to-be-the-most-important-determinant-of-our-capability-dr-ajay-kumar-secretary-department-of-defence-production/

To my mind, the most revealing thing is that he said OFB was nominated to produce 25 percent of the military’s new assault rifle requirement because OFB has built up sizeable capacity to manufacture such rifles over the years, and it would be prudent to utilize that and not let it remain idle.

This means, going forward DPSUs, OFBs will continue to be nominated to produce military hardware on the pretext that they already have the capacity that Pvt sector doesn't. In other words there is no level playing field for Pvt sector & contracts will continue to be given to DPSUs & OFBs.

Please let me know if my understanding is correct.

Thank You,

Sujoy

Unknown said...

Hi Prasun,

I have a question, I would like to enter in the field of Defense manufacturing and interested in developing small components (including R&D) especially in the field of electrical components. Do not have access to much of my own capital, but have raised money for other start-up's in the past and don't see much of a problem with money as long as the total outlay before returns start is less than 5mn USD.
Where do suggest that I start looking for opportunities, is there any place where I can find the list of all components used by Armed Forces?

Any kind of reading material or reports will be really helpful.

Thank you,
Piyush

Kaustav said...

Prasun Da,
An interesting article, but events overtake us. The BJP has precious little to show for coming to power in 2019.

What is the BSF for !!!Cannon Fodder. The BJP dispensation better recapture POK in 2018 if they expect to return to power in 2019. They shall have precious little to crow about otherwise.

They shall have precious little to crow about otherwise. Their small vote catchers such as OROP, GST and Pay Commission are easily cancelled by their badly handled and executed blunders of Demonetization bottlenecks, Make in India flops and Poor record of Employment generation and economic growth.



Unknown said...

Hi piyush. Your comment is probaly the best I have come across in this blog. Best of luck.

Regards

Kunal

rad said...

hi prasun
drdo has made a world record of putting an aesa radar on a fighter without flight testing on a hack aircraft!! i hope it is for fitment only. have the over come the cooling problem for the aesa??

as the 2052 is going on board the jag will the tiny displays be enough for the data generated t by the elm 2052??

what problem really happened to the 2 jaguar crashes

can the hostility of the maldivian gov be changed on elections? how far is it away ca n the chinese be told to leave the islands they have occupied .It is a fore gone conclusion that they have put up surveillance stuff on the islands ??

it seems they have become more hostile after the un vote .

why is Indonesia warming up yo us , same threat ?? How effective will the sabang base be to check the chinese??

why has Mauritius and Seychelles become hostile for giving us naval facilities? china ??



Rajesh Mishra said...

DRDO says that it has all the technologies to make the Fifth generation fighter. This must be including the Engines and the Radars. However there can be a big gap between their expectations Vs the concrete scientific reality. The fifth generation stealth has become redundant due to advancement of systems like S-400. This stealth can not withstand the observations from the sides, which can be provided by S-400 like systems. India also knows that the J-20 is not going to achieve the stealth and obtain the supercruiz capability within the next ten years, so they are at liberty for the next six years. By then they can fully decide whether to go for the DRDO designed Fifth Gen fighter or to purchase the Indian version of Su-57. Kindly comment.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To GESSLER & SHUKANT CHATRATH: The respective MRH specs are different due to different applications of different end-users, which again is due to MoD’s inability to enact structural reforms that govern asset usage & command. For example, the IN wants 12-tonne machines like Sea King Mk.42B because that’s what it now has & that’s what the homegrown warships have been designed to operate. As for the IAF, it should logically operate 12-tonne helicopters ONLY for CSAR. Thest rest, be it attack helicopters or RSH/LOH & medium-lift/heavylift helicopters, should all go to the IA. The IA requires such platforms for serving as integral assets, i.e. living & breathing with its combat arms like infantry, armour & artillery. Why after all should the IAF own/operate CH-47D Chinooks when they will be used for ferrying ammo stockpiles & airlifting M-777 UFHs for the IA? Why should AH-64E Apaches reqd for immediate close-air-support bge located at the IAF’s air bases 150km away from the tactical battle area? Why should the IAF use Mi-17V-5s for air-maintenance of IA’s forward posts along the borders, LoC & LAC? Why should the IAF use the very same LUHs that the IA does? Is there any other aiur force in the world that wants to employ LCH-type helicopters just for the sake of shooting down UAVs? So, unless all these foundational issues are hammered out, one cannot expect any OEM to offer tailor-made platforms/solutions. In my view, the IAF can easily opt for the HAL-designed IMRH as a weaponised platform used only for CSAR.

To HARDIK THANKI: For meeting immediate reqmts, the IWI Tavor’s 7.62mm family of small arms + Galil + Negev can easily be licence-built by Pinj Lloyd. For the medium-term & long-term needs, the 7.62 x 51 Ghaatak needs to be developed as a mature product.

To AJAY: That’s because they are unable to control their population growth-levels & therefore are of the view that the best way to reduce the youth component of the illiterate population strata is to give them a 90-day training course on terrorism & then try to have them infiltrated into India & if these folks die at the LoC while attempting to infiltrate or are killed inside the Kashmir Valley, then the population-control objectives of Pakistan’s rulers will be fully achieved.

To PRRANSHU YADAV: Well, that depends on several factors, like the Union MoF releasing the funds, because installation work can be completed within 1 year itself at the local air bases.

To PANIC: It should have commenced decades ago.

To INTOLERANT PERSON: 1) Why throw them in jail? Why not just revoke their citizenship & get them to settle down in countries like Canada & let them continue to create mayhem in those countries? Why should Indian taxpayers have to pay for their prison incarcerations? 2) Every declared nuclear weapons-state is doing the same. And yet we many a times in this blog have folks asking why India’s does not develop 1 megatonne thermonuclear warheads. Such ill-informed folks just don’t realise how MIRVed ICBMs function & therefore they chose to ignore the fact that even China’s DF-41 ICBMs have MIRVs whose yield is only 150kT. 3) It is sensor-fusion capability.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To MOHAN: It depends. If the Govt of India is thinking that such lateral entries will help turn-out loss-making DPSUs, then the Govt is living in cuckooland.

To BHOUTIK: 1) It bears a greater resemblance to the Russian Iskander-E. 2) How come Dr Christopher ‘forgot’ to develop such a technology demonstrator? Why can’t the Prahar/Prahaar/Pragati be developed ;ike an air-launched rocket-powered hypersonic missile? 3) IN warships are busy in the western Pacific for Malabar 2018 & later they will enter the outhwest Pacific for RIMPAC-2018 exercises. 4) Of course, more than six times so far. 5) No. 6) If they cpuld have been, they would have been by now. 7) Not ethnic angle, but ethno-abgle. It is all about tribalism mindsets.

To HARSH: 1) No. 40km range is attained by Pinaka-1. Hence, extended-range Grad rockets were never reqd. 2) Maybe because they have no other issues to raise. 3) BJP will return to power because it has managed to do what the citizens of India expect at the macro-level, i.e. keeping inflation down & having a functional bureaucracy at the Centre. 4) It will have to be restored, or else the other option is to cannibalise it.

To ASHISH GAUTAM: All elements of the upgrade have been explained in the thread I had highlighted to JASSS GILL in the previous thread when he had asked about IN submarine upgrades. No AIP can go on any Russian SSK since the Russia-developed AIP module has been rejected even by the Russian Navy.

To BUDDHA: I agree wholeheartedly.

To RAJESH MISHRA: That depends on whether the Parsis are also Musalmanic (as present-day Farsi-speaking Iranians/Persians are) or Zoroastrian. I recall in the latter half of the 1800s the Parsis of Bombay had gone on a widespread rampage due to some industrial disputes & this was brutally suppressed by the Gora colonizers. At that time the non-Musliman Parsis were the majority community in Bombay.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: What he failed to mention, or hid from his listening audience is that he or any Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies is by law a sitting board-member in the Board of Directors of every DPSU. Consequently, by law if he/she as Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies is not seen to be protecting the business interests of the DPSUs, then by law he/she is committing CBD, or criminal breach of trust. So, remove the Secretary for Defence Production & Supplies as a sitting board-member of any & all DPSUs, and you will see a level playing-field emerge. It is common-sensical. Meanwhile, you may find this interesting:

https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/shillong-clashes-tribals-khasi-sikh-xenophobia-violence-impossible-homeland-5214845/

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UNKNOWN/PIYUSH: Firstly, SMSEs & start-ups don’t do R & D. SMSEs don’t even engage in product engineering. Instead, they straightaway go for spinoffs. Like if a company is already producing radiators for automobiles, then it can undertake production of radiators for armoured vehicles as well with ZERO R & D & minimal structural tweaking. Start-ups engage in innovation, i.e. already-available scientific breakthroughs achieved in academic institutions that can be engineered & offered as an innovation which no one else has thought of. Companies that engage in R & D need to have ready access to scientific laboratories & prototype testing laboratories with a whole bunch of test-benches & dedicated infrastructure for measuring & recording various performance parameters, especially those MIL-STDs that are specified by prospective end-users. Hence, to even think or dream of creating SMSEs or start-ups purely for undertaking development or just production of components for military hardware is a cost-prohibitive exercise & a totally unattainabkle objective. Even TATA or KALYANI have not yet been able to achieve such military-ondustrial feats.

To KAUSTAV: I will once again refer you to the press conference of June 4 by the DG of ISPR Pakistan in which he stated that the PA & Chenab Rangers won’t retaliate if the IA or BSF fires against them, but will retaliate only if the IA & BSF targets Pak civilians living along the IB/WB & LoC. What he means by that is that he expects this principle to be applied when the PA & Chenab Rangers are are targetting only the BSF & IA, i.e. there should be no revenge retaliation from the Indian side. According to the DG, India should retaliate only if the PA & Chenab Rangers are targetting civilians living on the Indian side. Hence, the PA’s warped mindset is of the view that since the PA & Chenab Rangers have killed only BSF personnel & not a single civilian since the ceasefire’s announcement, the BSF or IA should keep quiet & not retaliate. Here’s the complete press-conference of June 4 where everything was made crystal-clear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3MkCFP0VcU&t=17s

Now, if India’s ‘netas’ cannot make sense of this press-conference, or if no one in India is aware of the contents of this press-conference, & instead if the ‘netas’ are only keeping themselves busy with physical fitness tips & Yoga sermons through their ‘Mann ki Baat’, then obviously they do not have any spare time to engage in any kind of ‘Kaam ki Baat’. And consequently the end-result is what we are now witnessing. It’s quite elementary & common-sensical, really.

To RAD: What??? DRDO requiring hack aircraft when they have world-beating techies who can achieve superior results by testing the AESA-MMR from a rooftop!!! Tjhat’s precisely why the IAF wants Jaguar IS’ cockpit to be totally changed. Problem is with the Adour Mk.811 engine. China hasn’t occupied any Maldivian island. They have only leased them for developing them as resorts.

To RAJESH MISHRA: How can DRDO master all 5th-gen MRCA technologies when it has not even been able to master 4th-gen stuff reqd for the LCA-AF Mk.2? Id the DRDO saying that it can master the science of sprinting without first mastering the science of walking? Does the DRDO even know what technologies are reqd for incorporation into stealthy airframes? Even the Japs & Chinese are still scratching their heads about such issues. Has anyone from the DRDO even published a scientific paper on any low-observability technological breakthroughs achieved in India?

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

1) Since the A5 is undergoing user associate trials with a single warhead, would it initially be deployed with a single warhead ?

2) Once the VC11184 tracking ship ready in the next several months, will MIRV testing become possible?

Kritavarma

buddha said...

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/india-business/india-china-in-talks-to-form-bloc-against-opec/amp_articleshow/64579952.cms
A very gd initiative

Newcomer said...

Thank you for this Blog sir, Deeply appreciated..
When i was an Diploma student me and My team(4 other members) created an unmanned ground vehicle and gave it a structural design of a tank.. which could be controlled via internet..
that was our academic project and that very project participated in an international symposium in Trissur,Kerala and got first prize, Also that symposium was viewed by an army officer don't know who but got really interested in it and spend some time at our place reviewing it(Probably that must have got us the First place)..

Now that Project is out there in the form of Muntra and we got literally on our heals when i get to know such product from a website... Cant express the feeling...
Thumbs up for PIYUSH..
Sorry for wasting your space Sir..

buddha said...

Will Indian army and BSF retaliate with massive fire to the indiscriminately firing and killing Bsf soldiers.
As chance of denuclearization of pak nukes via military way seem very narrow and may well be shifted to the next half of the coming decade.
In this circumstances will indian political masters show spine to do such adventure like retaking of POK and freeing balochistan.

SUJOY MAJUMDAR said...

Prasun Da,

1.Thanks for the clear explanation on the role of the Defense Secretary & why it has to be removed. But I don't think it willbe removed. DPSUs, OFBs are here to stay, forever. Frankly there is little or no room for Private players unless you are big company like TATA or L & T or Ambani .

2. Thanks for sharing the link about the ongoing violence in Shillong. It is well written. Just paid Rs.2500 ( instead of the regular Rs.500 fare) to get a share taxi from Shillong to Guwahati airport in order to go back home to Kolkata. Because of the regular attacks, killings, the population of people from mainland India has gone down by 80% in Shillong in the last 40 yrs & will probably be zero in another 10 years.

Bihari/UP kirana store owners are gone, Gujarati traders gone, Hindu Syleti blue collar workers gone, Gorkha/Nepali white collar workers gone. All gone,.in the last 4 decades, because of the regular killings carried out by Khasis fully supported by the State Govt.

Some Marwari traders fan the fire by instigating Khasis against mainland Indians. This helps them spread their business.

Thanks again,

Sujoy

Piyush Hundia said...

Thank you very much Kunal

Piyush Hundia said...

Dear Prasun,

Thank you for the comments earlier. Here are few more details on the proposed venture.
Past - experience in assembly of mobile phones, handheld medical devices, have access to skilled & trained workforce who understand and adhere to strict quality controls. The products were exported to a lot of western countries.

Future - planning to enter in xEV automotive market by being a Tier 2/3 supplier to a large component manufacturer and be part of their global supply chain.
I personally like the space of electricals in xEV, India will need a lot of re-skilling of the existing workforce in the next 10-15 years and we may also see a lot of Indian auto component manufacturers going bust due to change in the components used in a xEV over IC vehicles. We want to get ahead of the curve by looking at the global auto component industry for xEV vehicles and trying to fit us in the supply chain. Now, therefore, the question comes, where do you see the commonality of components used in a xEV with the Defense components.

We already know a lot of auto component manufacturers who are already planning to expand their product offering to be a part of the xEV space, however I don't know why these Companies who have considerable access to external consultants/capital / know how etc., still aren't looking at defense as a business vertical, especially the margins are far better in defence over commercial vertical.

Thank you very much for your advise and comments.

Piyush

ashish gautam said...

Ok I will read it.
Sawal based upon aj k samachar...
1) UNHCR valo ko kitne paise mile Kashmir vali report k liye?? Ya fir kisi k pressure mei Di gai Hai aisi report?
2) diplomatically Bharat k pas kya options Hai except report ko condemn krne or uske against protest krne k?? Like requesting for inquiry of the team who has drafted it?? Disciplinary actions like dismissal??

Srinivasa Nanduri Ramanujam said...

Hi Prasun,

What do you think of new UN report on Kashmir. It calls for self determination and investigation into Kashmir since July 2016 incidents.

Why is this report comparing kashmir with Syria.

Is it not false equivalency.

Regards,
Srinivasa Nanduri

Anonymous said...

1)Chinese hackers reveal US Navy’s classified ‘Sea Dragon’ missile

https://sofrep.com/104533/chinese-hackers-reveal-us-navys-classified-sea-dragon-missile/

2)BIG DAY for BEL India and @DefProdnIndia
Opening new office of BEL in Hanoi Vietnam in a short while.
Inauguration by @nsitharaman Hon @DefenceMinIndia .
Best wishes @cmdbel
New opportunities for Indian defence in Vietnam
https://mobile.twitter.com/drajaykumar_ias

Sir, what systems is bel offering, and can offer in future and indian defence industry in general?

Regards,
Annon


Harsh said...

Q1. Possible reason for killing of shujat bukhari by militants? He seemed inclined towards separatist.
Q2. There's no news of response by bsf after killing of its 4 men.
Q3. Would it be wrong to predict a massive multidimensional interference by Pakistani establishment in 2019 general elections.
Q4. Indian army is considering force restructuring. According to you what should be ideal size of infantry in comparison to the present 400000 approx.
Q5. Will there be any adverse impact of UN report on Kashmir?

Vikram Guha said...

PrasunDa,

Albert Einstein's diary entries have recently been made public by Princeton University. He calls INDIANS , "biologically inferior" , "Dark skinned Stupids" , who live in a country that is "geographically inferior".Turns out this Jew despite being a refugee himself was a Racist.

He also calls Chinese people "obtuse". But it seems his biggest hatred is reserved for "dark skinned people" like Indians & Africans

https://press.princeton.edu/titles/11234.html

Thanks,

VIKRAM

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KRITAVARMA: 1) It makes no sense to deploy A-5 ICBM with a single/unitary warhead. Hence, A-5’s operational deployment will take place ONLY AFTER the MIRVs have been flight-tested at least twice. And the tracking vessel will be ready for the high seas by the year’s end. And BTW, A-4 IRBM with 2 MIRVs has already been tested, although not officially acknowledged. So the basic MIRV’s engineering & ballistic fundamentals have already been proven. On the A-5 the MIRVs will be greater & therefore require accurate multi-target tracking out to great distances.

To BUDDHA: Of course there will be proportional retaliation. Imagine the KSA & UAE not waiting for any religious reason & commencing a new ground offensive in Yemen during Ramzaan & the PA & Chenab Rangers not bothering to hold their fire, while India on the other hand is clinging on to discredited policies on flimsy grounds! The reason why India initiated a unilatereal ceasefire while a reluctant Pakistan decided to make an announcement of a ceasefire along the LoC & IB/WB was purely due to pressure from Russia & China to improve the atmospherics so that the SCO Summit in Qingdao could be declared as a successful event. Not there are no reasons for the niceties to be adhered to.

To SUJOY MAJUMDAR: VMT. 1) As I had stated several times earlier, the writing on the wall clearly states that DPSUs will have to be fully publicly-listed entities & the MoD should have no financial or managerial control over them. Then almost overnight these publicly-listed entities will perform like TATA & KALYANI & L & T etc etc. All over the world countries have only 1/single OEM producing armoured & artillery systems. Only in India we are witnessing a bizarre trend that calls for needlessly duplicating effort. For instance, when the OFB has a rich heritage dating back to the 18th century, then why the hell should the DRDO parachute from above & become the designer/developer of the ATAGS? And why should TATA & KALYANI be called in for producing the same hardware when they can well become prime sub-contractors to OFB, thereby leading to everyone getting a piece of the cake? Why should ADA be developing MRCA platforms when HAL was created for doing this very job?

To PIYUSH HUNDIA: That’s because military reqmts are small in volume/quantity. Worldwide, the civilian/consumer reqmts far outnumber the military reqmts. For example, HAL will never be able to amortise its investments into the ALH programme if it relies on only military orders. Instead, civilian orders for ALH will be far more provided the ALH gets FAA or EASA airworthiness certification. In addition, the DRDO & MopD have a very poor track-record when it comes to technological spinoffs, which in turn inhibit voluminous production-levels. For example, an AESA-MMR can easily be modified to function as a fire-control radar for air-defence artillery & naval main guns, as well as for anti-UAV air-defence systems & also as a sensor for active-protection systems for armoured vehicles. Similarly, AIP modules for submarines can also be modified to serve as modular remotely-controlled/monitored powerplants in remote areas. Fuel-cells too can be used for powering comms networks as well as all kinds of UAVs as well as vectronics. Has anyone from the DRDO or MoD spelled out such a requirements-based roadmap over a defined timeframe? Hence, common-sensical & logical innovations are almost impossible to come by in India as of now.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ASHISH GAUTAM & SRINIVASA NANDURI RAMANUKAM: Here’s the entire report:

https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/IN/DevelopmentsInKashmirJune2016ToApril2018.pdf

And the accompanying ststement:

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/media.aspx?IsMediaPage=true

These are my views: 1) The title of the documents itself is a contradiction of UNSC Resolution of 1948, as also highlighted by India’s MEA. 2) Recommendations for India range from A to Q, while those for Pakistan range from A to G, meaning the report’s author had far more access to data & sources, thereby proving that India has nothing to hide. On the other hand, there’s total opacity emanating from PoK & hence the author glosses over the fact that since late 1947 the residents of PoK have been stateless & have not en joyed any fundamental rights that are mandated by the UN. Consequently, in terms of moral ascendancy, India scores very very high above Pakistan WRT the J & K issue. 3) It is obvious that the Indian MEA was caught off-guard in n ot anticipating this & that’s because the PMO is micro-managing the MEA. This in turn is proven by the Indian External Affairs Minister’s total absence from all official overseas visits of the Indian PM. Perhaps the PM is of the view that all other Heads of Govt around the world are stupid & idiots when they are accompanied by their Foreign Ministers during their official visits abroad. Consequently, the likes of Putin, Macron, Merkell, Trump etc etc are all stupid when compared to NaMo! India’s foreign policy enunciation therefore is all about sermonizing & this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70J9mm_OfIc

What should have been done is for the MEA to prepare in advance a voluminous rebutall (to be released immediately after the UN report) backed up by undeniable material evidence. This should have included detailed inventory-listing of all kinds of weapons seized from terrorists who were intercepted while crossing the LoC/WB or who were liquidated inside the Kashmir Valley & Jammu; plus detailed listing of all Pakistan I terrorists who are currently incarcerated in Indian prisons after being nabbed inside J & K; their detailed confessions; & a list of all liquidated Pak-origin terrorists whose identities are kniown to Indian security agencies & who have been buried inside J & K.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANNON: BEL is offering those very systems that are now in use by India’s armed forces. And so are L & T and BDL.

To HARSH: 1) No ‘possible’ resons. Only definite reasons. Firstly, this was an assassination planned in great detail & with at least 90 days of preparation. Why? Because the late Shujaat Bukhari was part of a team of eminent persons from J & K that was involved in communicating with both esidents of PoK & those who hail from PoK but who are not settled abroad in Europe, North America & Scandinavia. Hence, Shujaat had travelled abroad with this Indian team for face-to-face meetings with folks hailing from PoK in Istanbul & Dubai in the recent past. When the ISI got winds of it through its Canada-based & UK-based JKLF sources, the decision was taken by the ISI to kill Shujaat, with the United Jihad Council in Muzaffarabad being told to ideologically support this killing. So who are the killers? They are professionals (i.e. retired PA SSG personnel from whom the ISI outsources such missions) who probably entered India from Nepal & it is from Nepal that they will exfiltrate. Interestingly, no Pakistani TV channel reported this killing yesterday. And those sympathizers of the PA who will never be murdered in this manner include this creature:
Hilal Mir, Editor of Kashmir Reader newspaper (https://kashmirreader.com/)

This creatuire’s Twitter account (https://twitter.com/mirhilaal?lang=en) says it all about his sympathies/inclinations.

4) Kindly read these:

https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/shooting-straight/restructuring-of-mechanised-forces/

https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/shooting-straight/restructuring-reorganisation-of-combat-arms/

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

VMT. Very interesting as well. AFAIK there was A4 test after Jan 2, 2017. The recent NASIC report, however, credits the Paki Ababeel on Jan 24, 2017 as having ``South Asia's first MIRV payload". Was there another A4 test after that was never mentioned in the news/ claimed to be the test of something else officially? Or was the 2 MIRV test done on one of the publicly known A4 tests?

Kritavarma

panic said...

So ISI can kill People in India at Will, without any Consequences at all ??

ashish gautam said...

so r u sure that they will successfully exfiltrate via Nepal? or they will be nabbed by our people & invovement of Pak's ex SSG personnel will be proved?

DAshu said...

and ISI morphed into MOSSAD pheww !!!

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To KRITAVARMA: The testing was done more than 2 years ago in an acknowledged test-firing of A-4 but the MIRV testing was not announced.

To PANIC: That's what has been going on since the early 1990. Have you already forgotten about the February 1993 Mumbai bomb-blasts?

To ASHISH GAUTAM: Based on similar operations carried out in the Valley in the past, this is indeed possible.

To DASHU: The ISI's hit-squads have been adept in carrying out such missions inside the Valley since the 1990s, especially with the help of local overground workers who act as facilitators.

Anonymous said...

Prasunda,

1) Then why did the 2017 NASIC report credit the Pakis with the first MIRV payload in S. Asia?

2) If the A4 was tested with 2 MIRVs, why is that not the standard A4 configuration? After all, doing that would overnight double our capability vis a vis PRC.

Kritavarma

Anonymous said...

1) Have you already forgotten about the February 1993 Mumbai bomb-blasts?

What do you mean.....what happened during those blasts?

2) It’s very unfortunate that our intelligence security agencies n law enforcement agencies are helpless during these assassinations?

3j What happens if cabinet minister is executed in same way?

Ron

SUJOY MAJUMDAR said...

PrasunDa,

There are several strategic analysts who believe that Kashmir has become a huge money yielding industry for both India & Pakistan. So both the Govts keeps the issue boiling to profit from it.

The same is the case [they say] with North East where ethnic cleansing of Biharis, Bengalis, Kukis etc have been carried out with the full support of New Delhi because the presence of these communities in NE does not augur well for Delhi.

Will you please shed some light on this analysis ?

Thank You

সুমন্ত নাগ said...

Prasun Da, How do you view recent un report on J &K, assassination of Shujat Bukhari, Pakistani Propaganda Office linking the murder with the un report and two of their domesticated dogs LeT and Hijbuls dancing with the tune, are n't all linked ?

http://idrw.org/hizbul-lashkar-blame-india-for-journalist-shujaat-bukharis-murder/

ashish gautam said...

I would love it if in bukhari's murdering way, mehbooba & Abdullah as also assassinated... It will really bring great peace to heart... Kashmir is vaise b kuch nai hona sir... Hm or ap kitni b baate krle... Kashmiris kbi Indians ko accept nai krenge... My relative has been commandant bsf in j&k during early 2000s... He says kashmiri sala kiss ka saga nai Hai or agr red hot lohe k tave pe baith k b bole na ki such bol RHA hu kabi trust mat krna... or jo apne kha na sir regarding air land compaign etc... Vo kbi nai hoga sir q ki Hindustan k netao mei krne k dum nai Hai... Or fauj to vaise he Kashmir mei max restraint k Nam pe hath mei zanjeere bandh k baithi Hai... May b 100yr bad ya 200 yr bad India ki apni failed policies or khud Indians ki vgh SE Hindustan k tukde honge...

rad said...


hi prasun
why should the gov subsidize the j&k state , its better of to divert money for other usefull measure and make them beggars if they do not want to be a part of india.

give us more dope on the akash NG and the astra new version whose pic have been released.

china poo pooes the malabar exercise is there any rational in it ? is their submarine tech so advanced ??. What are the main advantages of a permeneat magnet submarine elec motoor vs the normal one? will not the magnetic radiation be easily detected by a MAD detector??

the 6000 ton monster diesel sub Pak is going to get will be a hand full to deal with as it will have a large AIP and larger batteries to stay submerged. what do we do??

are these subs subsidized ? how are hey going to pay for it ?

Pierre Zorin said...

Prasun reading opinions in several places, why sudden venom against Christians? It almost sounds like Hitlerism is back in Indian guise. Although nothing new since Nero's days all these 71 years of independence that I have known India- other than some covert and scattered disgruntlement among Hindu communities - generally it was all live and let live sentiments. It seems now due to Pakistan and Kashmir, every non Hindu is at risk of being seen as a scapegoat! I am not talking about evangelism which is disliked not only in India but almost every country including Western countries because telling people they are lost without Jesus and things like greed, hatred, immorality, loving your neighbour -cause natural hatred towards the one saying them - why it even cost Jesus His life! But it seems there is a general intolerance by the same group of people who think nothing about adopting Western immoral practice and greed, who do nothing to help their own countrymen and dodge laws of the nation.

Prranshu Yadav said...

Sir, what is easier? Upgrading your ABM defence to shoot down more advenced ICBMs? Or upgrading your ICBM to evade more advanced ABM defences?

Kishire said...

does india can do anything strong to send a message to pakis ?
where does make in india stands WRT made in china 2025?

Manoj G said...

Hi Prasun,

I regularly keep track of the IQ ranking of countries.

It seems Indians have one of the lowest IQ in the world & Western countries, China, Japan have one of the highest.

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

No wonder India is in such poor shape. Economically, socially. Nothing will improve because IQ of a person does not increase as several studies have shown.

Thanks, Manoj

Pierre Zorin said...

Manoj I disagree with such a ranking. How could they assess a country where people like J.C.Bose and Ramanujam were born? It is more like political IQ they measured. I am telling you, the sole reason Western countries thrive in science and technology is largely due to superior training programmes and funding that was invested in that. Almost all the top scientists and doctors around the world are Indians. That shows it is not nature but nurture where the issues lies. Pursuing archaic educational methods and formats and refusing to develop mindset steeped in caste/religion - they are the reasons why India can't reach its zenith like in the past.

buddha said...

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/delhi/pm-modi-neither-talks-to-me-nor-looks-at-me-nor-allows-me-to-talk/articleshow/64618278.cms
High drama ....Unfolding ....

Ravi said...

Manoj G,
Have you ever heard about Flynn Effect?
It is true that the IQ of an ADULT cannot be increased, but if a NEW-BORN BABY is given proper environment, then the IQ does increase about 4-5 points. These proper environment causes Flynn Effect which is nothing but rise in the IQ because of good education, proper nutrition, disease-free childhood, attachment focused parenting etc.

Average IQ of western countries like USA, UK etc. was in the range of 80-85 in the early 20th century. Due to the Flynn effect, now the average IQ in these countries is about 100 because they maintained the environment which causes Flynn effect continuously for many generations and the net result is increase in average IQ of about 15-20 points.

Now let’s go to the elephant in the room- The Race and IQ Question. There is a segment in the USA according to which the Flynn effect works according to the race of the individual. They say that the black americans of today have been living in much better environment compared to their ancestors but still their IQ is about 85 and it hasn’t increased since many decades. And they do have a point. May be this race and IQ thing is correct to a certain extent or else we would have seen increase in IQ of the black americans.

But we as Indians don’t have to worry because we have sufficient proof to show that IQ of Indians does increases substantially if proper environment is given and Flynn effect does work here in India. For example look at the Jains & Marwaris, who are racially similar to most of the Indians but performs very well in competitive exams and also forms a good chunk of Indian students studying in top foreign universities despite consisting about 1-1.5% of India’s total population. They have substantially higher IQ then an average Indian. Increase in their IQ happened because they managed to create Flynn effect because they are trading community and they had the access to the wealth. Tamil Brahmins are shining examples about what proper environment and extra emphasis in intellectual discourse can produce in India. Their average IQ is most probably highest in India as a group. All these shows that India’s average IQ can be increased if we do the same things which west did which is to create & maintain environment which causes Flynn effects for decades.

Now let me give you a good news. The link to the website you have posted shows two surveys which took place in India in 2002 & 2006 which gave IQ score of 82. As per 2001 census, India's student population in the 5-19 age group was only 42% but in 2011 census, it jumped to 72% and today in 2018 it is certainly higher than 80%. So the average IQ if India today is not 82 which is based on two surveys conducted 12 & 16 years ago but much higher. Whereas Flynn effect stops functioning once a country reaches developed country status. For example in USA, UK etc. average IQ has not increased for decades. So slowly but steadily we are closing the IQ gap with other countries and will reach their level in the future.

Anonymous said...

"I regularly keep track of the IQ ranking of countries."

From a glance at the website it seems the rankings are static from reports dated 2002, 2006.

My novice opinion is: It easier to get iq of smaller countries and city states like singapore(sg),hk,israel etc.

And of all countries singapore definitely has the best eugenics policy of providing incentives to highly qualified people.

Regards,
Annon

AJS Chirp said...

Hi Prasun,

We constantly see reports of terrorists amassing across the LOC but why does the IA wait for them to cross before engaging them? Why not proactively target these launch pads, especially when their handlers are present and take them out? What's the point in fighting a defensive battle? If PA wants to escalate, it's their funeral. At least IA troops can do what they signed up to do instead of all this hide and seek business.

AJS

Prranshu Yadav said...

The thing that frustates me is that China started off from the same position as India. Both countries got independence at around the same time and both countries were equally poor and underdeveloped in beginning. Yet as per data in this website Chinese now have even better IQ than much of the west while we are still far behind. Ofcourse the reason probably is that being a dictatorship Chinese govt. was able to better implement educational policies and improve environment of the society. But that doesn't mean India too should have been a dictatorship. In long run democracy always proves to be more stable as the collapse of Soviet Union and arab spring revolutions have shown.

BTW, the fact that blacks in the US still have low IQ does not mean it depends on race. The thing is while education and standard of living for white americans have improved over decades (therefore causing flynn effect) the condition of American blacks is still bad. Their level of education, income etc. is still below average. This, and not race, is the reason why flynn effect has so far not worked in their case.

Unknown said...

For.that the indian army has to be authorised to ultimately take away POK. Once that happens the state of Pakistan would ultimately collapse. But going for such operations there is a.political directive as observed in gagan shakti. But when it actually happens, let's hope for the best.

Regards

Kunal

Rajesh Mishra said...

IQ is a complex combined product of genetic racial factors, environmental facilities and off course the inclinations. Taliban have the highest IQ when setting a bomb for mass murders and we could not fully make the Tejas in last 30 years because it was not in the Private sector.

bhoutik said...

what if IQ increases during the process of change itself - when an average person goes to the gym, its not like an increased ability happens at the end of the process, but happens because of the process and while it is happening itself. so instead of this bullcrap defeatist attitude of 'nothing will change because average IQ is low', lets keep moving towards the changes we want to see - its like the chicken or the egg story - one doesnt come before the other - they are related and happen as a result of each other

Intolerant Person said...

1.Sir,I can understand that any Pakistani citizen saying or using words like IHK.But I was stunned when a Dawn columnist used the same term and turns out,he is Indian!
2.In an outlook magazine interview Noam Chomsky said that Pakistani media is more open then Indian.Really?
3.Why Noam is so anti-India?All I heard from is against Indian interests regarding Kashmir policies or other stuff.Did someone drove off his buffalo?
4.Why journalism is losing it's credibility all over the world?Even in US,there seems to be a war between POTUS and some news outlets.Even in India,someone media outlets are either way too alligned to left wing or right wing.Why there's an absence of balance?What's your POV?

Manoj G said...

@Ravi,

If you go through that link that I have provided you will see that IQ level of China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore are ahead of even Western countries. In 1947 these countries were even poorer than India & had IQ almost similar to India.

Your examples of Marwaris & Jains is not entirely correct. Most Indian students in foreign students come from Telengana/AP , Delhi & Punjab. These communities are more affluent than others, hence they can pay the exorbitant tution fees in Western Universities. Not because they have higher IQ.
If they had high IQ they too would have been entrepreneurs like Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg etc. Instead they are simply traders.

Re Tamil Brahmins, please check the Ranking ( because reservation has no role to play in ranking) of students who qualify IIT-JEE, CAT, UPSC. The vast majority are from backward communities, they are not Brahmins. Several races/communities across the world have cornered resources. In India,Brahmins were able to corner resources for centuries. That's why they excelled. Not because others were less intelligent than them.

@Pierre Zorin,

The likes of J.C Bose and Ramanajum are one offs. Please tell me how many J C Bose have Bengalis produced in the last 2-3 decades ? Not even one. That explains why criminals, thugs are ruling Bengal as much as they are ruling UP & Bihar. Bengalis may have been intellectuals in the past, but not any more.

Now compare that with US or China. Almost every product, service that you & I are using is being thought of & brought to life by Americans or Europeans.

I agree with your statements though. Education in India is crap, but thousand of well heeled Indians are studying in US, UK for decades. How many of them go on to become Gates, Zuckerberg, Steve Wozniak ? None.

Rajesh Mishra said...

IQ itself is a creation of the media hype. Why always the lowest benchmark is set at the dark Africans. Why nobody counts the real IQ of the real Arabs.

Raghav Khera said...

Though not an expert on the matter but there are lot of inconsistent comparison in your statement above. From IQ to political to bilionares. You have asked how many bezoz and zukerberg's Jain and marwaris have produced. Well almost the founders of Indian unicorns are marwaris. Be it Flipkart, Paytm, Myntra etc. I would tend to agree with what Ravi said in the comments above. You can have any many examples of successful and unsuccessful people in all communities. Dvelopemnt is a result of lot more factors other than purely IQ.

সুমন্ত নাগ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
সুমন্ত নাগ said...

Prasun Da, I have to remove the comment as Google blogger does not provide any tools for editing the same.

@ Manoj G,

As I do agree with Raghav Khera and Pierre, there are lack of credibility in Your Comments above..

a. "If you go through that link that I have provided you will see that IQ level of China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore are ahead of even Western countries. In 1947 these countries were even poorer than India & had IQ almost similar to India."

Ravi has previously answered, Flynn effect. He also clarified, based on the trend of results available from that website, India is closing Gaps.

b. "Your examples of Marwaris & Jains is not entirely correct. Most Indian students in foreign students come from Telengana/AP , Delhi & Punjab. These communities are more affluent than others, hence they can pay the exorbitant tution fees in Western Universities. Not because they have higher IQ.
If they had high IQ they too would have been entrepreneurs like Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg etc. Instead they are simply traders."

Please stop spreading Bull Shit. Both you and Ravi is wrong in this assessment. There are students going abroad for study, comprises of probably all the communities of India, the creamy layers of community as well as, middle income group(facility of scholarship), and also in rare case student excelling in Low Income group(obviously having facility of scholarship), availing the option for Higher Studies in abroad. That includes Bengali also. Being an Indian first, and Bengali second, I have at least my two cousins, had their higher study in abroad, one done her post graduate in PRC, and another already an BARC Scientist, now in the USA. Some of my childhood friends or school mates are settled in the USA, and the European Country, as senior executive or research fellow.

Kindly care to explain, why do we know the Marwaris, Jains, Sindhis, Parsi as Trading Community ? We have a community in West Bengal calls 'Bene(Traders)', children of that community like Marwaris tend to being brought up in Business environment. Their family encourages them into setting up of Business, instead of going for jobs, I have my friends from 'Mahisya' community, another progressive community of West Bengal, to go for Family business, in spite of being a good student, and avid foot ball player, already at the age of thirty five, having his own thriving business of dealership in edible oils. Even

Go for pan India, a Sizable chunk of the Most of successful Business are headed by the Parsi, Hindu Marwaris, Jain Communities from Marwaris and Gujarati.

Tamil Brahmins, please check the Ranking ( because reservation has no role to play in ranking) of students who qualify IIT-JEE, CAT, UPSC. The vast majority are from backward communities, they are not Brahmins. Several races/communities across the world have cornered resources. In India,Brahmins were able to corner resources for centuries. That's why they excelled. Not because others were less intelligent than them.

--- Partly true. I am a non Bramhin, but still in the view that, Bramhin students excels in Higher Study as well as competitive exams, though not having facility of reservation.

.....Contd. below

সুমন্ত নাগ said...

From above...

c."The likes of J.C Bose and Ramanajum are one offs. Please tell me how many J C Bose have Bengalis produced in the last 2-3 decades ? Not even one. That explains why criminals, thugs are ruling Bengal as much as they are ruling UP & Bihar. Bengalis may have been intellectuals in the past, but not any more."

---Most Bull Shit, crap, biased, ill informed views I have to come across from a Fellow Blogger,no wonder why Pierre did not bother to reply.


check the sites, and the names :

https://crb.wisc.edu/staff/bhattacharyya-anita/, https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/news/india/18-yr-old-bengal-girl-youngest-indian-chosen-for-nasa-project/articleshow/51173127.cms, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Sengupta, https://thelogicalindian.com/news/indian-scientists-discover-new-planet/(Name of head of the team: Professor Abhijit Chakraborty), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bengali_scientists

-- Criminalisation of Politics began long ago, and I think your home state is not alien to this. So, please google more, and desist from coming up with such ill informed comments in future.